Yeah, RI hurts cast a lot.
#h1-high-heat-strategies
mossy zinc
true fable
mirage being multi hit makes it so good for casts in ely
mossy zinc
Deadly Strike makes the most out of that +150% damage on Attack.
honest kernel
Can still get Breaking Wave too for easy clears in Elysium/Styx
And Achilles just zooms around bosses anyways
mossy zinc
Sea Storm, Blizzard Shot, maybe Curse of Drowning, Fully Loaded. Lots of potential there.
honest kernel
So taking the extra duo chance might be worth over God’s pride?
mossy zinc
Yeah.
honest kernel
The one consideration for God’s pride would be Chaos/Hermes boons
mossy zinc
Phalanx Shot + Deadly Strike might also be good. But you'll need Divine Flourish for Deadly Reversal.
true fable
im a god's pride truther just because of hermes boons tbh
getting an epic hermes boon can make or break a run
deadly reversal is in such a strange place lol
honest kernel
Does Achilles need them? Mobility isn’t that big a deal
mossy zinc
You'd benefit more from his legendary.
honest kernel
Yeah
true fable
you would probably benefit more from hermes leg on achilles
but i think going for greater recall is still high rolling
no matter which way you look at it
honest kernel
There is also the caveat of casts being super dependent on rarity for their power
true fable
i feel like i care more about poms than i do about rarity on a cast weapon
not that rarity doesnt matter
i just think it can be mitigated
compared to like, doom, where rarity can make a 2x magnitude of difference
honest kernel
If you start with it it is whatever sooo
Gonna have to try that out. Full green for the last 4 perks
true fable
what heat are you doing achilles
honest kernel
Probably shooting for 50 as well
true fable
oh nut best of luck
mossy zinc
Here are the chances of rolling a non-Hermes duo / legendary:
12% - Base chance of rolling duo/legendary per offered boon (in non-miniboss / non-styx rooms)
10% - increase from God's Legacy
10% - increase from corresponding god trinketSo for a normal room when you are running God's Legacy on the mirror and already have the pre-reqs, your overall chance of hitting the legendary/duo is:
39% - Chance with no god trinket and core boons not filled
51% - Chance with no god trinket but core boons are filled
54% - Chance with god trinket and core boons not filled
67% - Chance with god trinket and core boons are filled
From ellomenop.
You can practically guarantee a Duo/Legendary with God's Legacy and Persuasion.
honest kernel
So it is having the core boons filled that increases the odd for legendaries and duos, uh
Good to know
honest kernel
Good to know as well
mossy zinc
That's because they will offer you at least 1 out of those if you don't have them filled.
heady olive
so its best to fill up ur core boons asap?
honest kernel
Could be
mossy zinc
Depending on what you want, it can be.
honest kernel
Depends on what you are offered
heady olive
i should fill up my cast since i never use it but i leave it blank
honest kernel
Honestly I like filling it with something like a flood shot or a trippy shot
mossy zinc
Rerolls don't seem to be bound by that rule, however. Probably because you're guaranteed at least 1 new option. I don't know how it works exactly.
heady olive
oo
Honestly I like filling it with something like a flood shot or a trippy shot
those are nice but its quite hard to get them
honest kernel
I mean, depends on what you are offered
heady olive
its still better to fill it up i guess so i get offered more boons
honest kernel
Depending on your weapon it could also help you out for certain cases
mossy zinc
I like Electric Shot if I can't get Zeus' Aid.
heady olive
oh yea i like zeus cast on chiron
honest kernel
I like having a decent cast for Zeus Shield, because you tend to have problems reaching enemies in rooms fast enough. Yeeting something to kill the lightweights and killing the big ones in the meantime is something I am incorporating in my playstyle
Zeus cast is cool for that
heady olive
yep
true fable
well that's what happens with the other 4
honest kernel
Cannnot start with a call for the first boon soooo
true fable
hmmmmmmmmmmm
honest kernel
First runs are why
true fable
i havent taken a non hades call in 200 runs so that is good to know i guess LOL
true fable
but yeah as a general rule of thumb you want to fill core boons and pantheon early
that way you get to control what gods/boons you see down the line
heady olive
pantheon?
heady olive
ah
honest kernel
Basically who shows up later in the run
heady olive
yeye ik that
honest kernel
If my understanding is correct
heady olive
is hades call good btw?
i havent taken a non hades call in 200 runs so that is good to know i guess LOL
honest kernel
Insane
true fable
hades call is very good if you dont need protection provided by other calls
honest kernel
That +100% damage is enough to let you dispose of most enemies instantly, and helps your boss damage out a LOT
heady olive
oh wow yea
honest kernel
Not to mention you start with +30% charge from the getgo
heady olive
i like acorn too much though
true fable
yeah the corn is classic
but i like dad for anything 32 and under
theres probably better players who can make use of it on 32+ but that's not me LOL
honest kernel
Not me either
yet
Also I have to stop running janky mirror setups
And actually enable some ammount of JS and CP lol
cedar thistle
CP D:
true fable
for 32? or for 50?
honest kernel
50
honest kernel
I could maybe winstreak 40 heat at this point
heady olive
:o
honest kernel
Did that in my practise runs with Zeus shield lmao
true fable
He was talking about dad call so i just assumed 32
some people are "speedrunning" 32 but picking bad pacts i trust baj but wanted to make sure
LOL
honest kernel
Yeah that is fair enough
true fable
"speedrunning" 32 with DC2 JS3 CP2 good luck mate
true fable
i feel like acorn is standard for 40+ haha i may just be bad though
i always take acorn if im there
honest kernel
I used it in my runs
But you could get away without it
Don’t have to max out HL after all
At 40
true fable
what's life without a little risk
mossy zinc
I like Feather Duster with LC4.
rugged acorn
seems legit
true fable
nyaanyaa i have aphro attack flourish and crush shot are you proud yet
i guess i need pash dash
true fable
oops it gave me swiftness of hermes 
i did finish with 4 aphro core boons idk what happened
mossy zinc
You need 6.
bright crescent
i wonder if anyones done max heat with god mode
well i guess it would depend on how high your god mode is
honest kernel
Taking damage isn’t the only issue
It’s having no mirror, having to go fast enough to conplete the run in 20 minutes while Jury Summons and Calisthenics Program are maxed out, while being forced to take whatever boon you are offered until you get a key
true fable
god that sounds like hell
honest kernel
Oh yeah and EM4 is there too
Maybe a seeded TAS run could do it
A human, however ? Not happening anytime soon
bright crescent
so its more of how much damage can you output rather than how much damage youcan take
honest kernel
If you don't deal enough damage, the timer gets you
So that's the main concern
Obviously not taking damage is also something
bright crescent
apparently god mode goes up to 80% so i figured you could probably do some trades
but now im not so sure
bright crescent
get someone to build a godmode slider mod and started seein whats lowest godmode clear
honest kernel
That would be spicy
visual sand
I had a 5sack once. Good thing it was TD2
gaunt fiber
I got it once too
But it was me so tired, did not realize I had already picked the sack
so I continued
(don't tell this to anyone)
gaunt fiber
the run after be like
"ok guys let's give him serrated and 2sack"
the difference is just stupid lol
honest kernel
I know that feeling too well
gaunt fiber
what do you build on Hera ?
rain sedge
I saw haelian did a phalanx shot build yesterday
it actually inspired me to try hera
because chiron at 40+ is surprisingly NOT free
I ran out of TD3 in chamber 10 or something
ripe crane
I'm not sure I understand why phalanx shot is so popular tbh
It is pretty good but certainly not the best in any scenario?
gaunt fiber
Well front backstabs are fun
ripe crane
Mmm
gaunt fiber
But that would not be reliable for high heat tho
rain sedge
idk I saw it on haelian stream, that's a race setup though
I haven't seen hera runs on 40+ so I wouldn't know
it might be time to pick up the old rama
I hated that weapon so much
sly remnant
phalanx shot has high base damage and has the upside of being a beast of a room clear if you get lightning phalanx
it is essentially better hera cast......but more high-rolly and starts a lot slower
crush shot is far more consistent and better at killing bosses, but it doesn't have the room clear speed that lightning phalanx has
phalanx also has the benefit of putting athena in your pool at high heat
neat furnace
|| on either side
mossy zinc
||text||
neat furnace
|| like so||
mossy zinc
No need for spoiler tags in this channel, though.
fringe sundial
Oh ok thnx everybody
So i just saw the credits. Does anyone know how/when/which run is the final? Is it a coinsidence that it happened after i won the run with 32 skulls?
mossy zinc
10th clear, I'm pretty sure.
cedar thistle
yes. 10th. smart doing 32 on 10th. avoiding a fight 🤣
fringe sundial
No i didnt avoid it. It was the next run after i won with 32
cedar thistle
ah oh.
tidal night
can you even unlock em4 before final ending?
fringe sundial
So it was more like a reward: you did it with 32! Here are the credits
tidal night
i thought you got it from the contractor after true ending
cedar thistle
but yea. it's unrelated. 32 just gives you 3rd useless trinket
cedar thistle
idk cool, i believe you're right. you get it after.
fringe sundial
Why everyone is on pure Hades :(
cedar thistle
pure hades?
tidal night
do you mean extreme measures hades?
gaunt fiber
I ain't fighting angry dad, nope
fringe sundial
Poor*
tidal night
oh
cedar thistle
poor hades?
gaunt fiber
hey I'm not the one who shreds the other one's hopes and dreams
mossy zinc
What are hopes and dreams?
gaunt fiber
This is actually a really sad question
white magnet
If I play with LC4 I should use SD, right? 🤔
gaunt fiber
Sure thing
mossy zinc
Unless you're sure you can no-hit until at least Hades.
white magnet
I think I should probably use the bow instead of fists... Any recommended setup? Seems a bit boring always going for Aphro/Dio duo 😐
cedar thistle
or you're using gy, possibly. i doubt the ability to heal up with gy tho
mossy zinc
Divine Strike builds are easy to play.
white magnet
On fists?
mossy zinc
Guan Yu.
white magnet
Oh
gaunt fiber
GY is actually busted so you can totally go LC4 DD
mossy zinc
But Divine Strike is actually my go-to build on Malphon. That's the one I made popular. 
gaunt fiber
Don't force me to prove my point
cedar thistle
i can't tell if astaos is serious
mossy zinc
Yea, the spin will deflect if you use Divine Strike.
gaunt fiber
i can't tell if astaos is serious
@cedar thistle Yeah I get this problem a lot
white magnet
I do believe GY is good. I'm just a bit iffy about the hp penalty
white magnet
But does the spin count as Divine Attack?
gaunt fiber
y
white magnet
Eris??
cedar thistle
LC4 😮 what heat are you gonna run at
cedar thistle
o. are you doing 32 because you want to clear 32. or do you want to do LC4 for doing LC4
mossy zinc
That's what I just said. If you have Divine Strike, the spin will deflect.
white magnet
So I'm hoping I can manage LC4
sly remnant
LC4 is super manageable without any FO
white magnet
Oh, sorry. Didn't notice that message
gaunt fiber
LC4 is something to get used to but it's ok
mossy zinc
Just don't take FO at 32 Heat.
gaunt fiber
Just kidding, just find Patroclus every run
sly remnant
^i agree with nyaa unless you are speedrunning
white magnet
... Didn't you recommend that last time, though? 👀
I've only tried 4-5 times, but still xP
mossy zinc
Me? I don't recommend FO at 32 to anyone unless they're very adamant about wanting to play with FO.
gaunt fiber
come on
cedar thistle
take customs!
gaunt fiber
More TD, at least 2
cedar thistle
yes. no CP 😐
sly remnant
^yep
white magnet
I can't beat TD2....
gaunt fiber
You will be
cedar thistle
ahh. that 32 looks scary haha
white magnet
I think you're the one who complained about me last time, even...
No... No matter what I do, I can't beat TD2/3
sly remnant
you can't clear TD2 because you have JS2 CP1 BP2 and DC2
mossy zinc
Just go for it, and see how far you make it.
sly remnant
turn some of those off
gaunt fiber
what's the aspect ?
sly remnant
and you'll find TD2 much more bearable
cedar thistle
are you pausing to think? and are you taking all the free rooms?
mossy zinc
You could be getting experience and practice as we speak.
And maybe just make it anyway.
sly remnant
i think the reason TD2 is hard is because of CP1 with DC2 more than anything else
thats gonna slow you WAYYY down
gaunt fiber
DC really depends on the aspect
mossy zinc
I take JS0 CP0 DC0 TD3 at 32, normally.
sly remnant
^same
cedar thistle
i'd just take the shop regardless. :B
But shops arn't going to appear out of nowhere, you can take coin rooms to ensure you've enough gold for them.
take some coins early.
mossy zinc
And always take shops and most Chaos Gates.
white magnet
In my experience, it's not fun to take a late chaos gate... It sorta ruined my run last time xP
And it was at the first boss...
mossy zinc
Yeah, sometimes it's a bad time for them.
cedar thistle
Mm having rolls or not affects if i take chaos near boss rooms
white magnet
And the first time I tried GY I only lost because I got a Chaos boon that hit me every time I used attack 😐
white magnet
I did. And I lost 2 DDs in a normal room...
cedar thistle
do people normally do em4 at 32? seems kinda scary
white magnet
But I should take off CP and JS and put them in TD?
cedar thistle
i go fo2 too
white magnet
I can't beat FO2
cedar thistle
CP for sure. you dnt' want that
white magnet
Or 1...
sly remnant
FO2 is very difficult. its the biggest "jump" in the game
white magnet
Idk. So far I've only managed to get to the second round with FO1...
cedar thistle
ah okay then.
fringe sundial
Why play LC4 with Stubborn defiance?
white magnet
Without FO, I usually lose 1 (if lucky) DD, and 3 if I'm very unlucky
What else am I supposed to take?
white magnet
I've heard it's good if you have no healing...
rancid stirrup
SD allows you to heal
sly remnant
you can't heal with LC4. You can "heal" every room by dying to get back up to 30%
fringe sundial
Thats all?
cedar thistle
i think alex just means that it seems a little overkill for 32 heat?
rain sedge
that 32 setup is making it hard for yourself
fringe sundial
Well for me 3DD is safer
rain sedge
it's pretty close to the troll 32 setup we did yesterday actually
sly remnant
it depends on how comfortable you are with it
fringe sundial
FO?
white magnet
And I will lose if I take more dmg %...
white magnet
Idk, yet...
rain sedge
white magnet
Fists = Zag
Bow = Chiron
white magnet
No. I can't beat FO.
white magnet
Better than impossible.
mossy zinc
And I will lose if I take more dmg %...
I think you gotta accept the fact that regardless of what you take, you'll need to practice to beat 32.
sly remnant
HL5 LC4 JS2 EM3 BP1 MM UC DC2 TD2 AP1 i believe is the best setup for fists
I think you are overestimating HL5 honestly. its really not that bad
white magnet
The fact is this game won't let me do as I want, so half the dmg I take is from the BS the game throws at me
rancid stirrup
i mean
taking FO means you can turn down the BP and the JS
they’re what really burn down time imo
rain sedge
I suppose AP1 with fist isnt that bad
white magnet
mossy zinc
Won't let you do as you want?
white magnet
And Idk where to put the last heat...
white magnet
And I lose if I do that
sly remnant
idk what to tell you
cedar thistle
maybe something like this
sly remnant
maybe take UC or RI
fringe sundial
Is that your first 32 run?
sly remnant
glass's setup is decent but a bit high-rolly
white magnet
This is my 6th... or 7th
cedar thistle
run a aspect that burns through DC and it won't be an issue
mossy zinc
Just put the last point somewhere and practice. I dunno.
sly remnant
i think demeter fists with glass's setup is good for you
cedar thistle
yea. but it's based on what he said. no FO, etc. this is probably the best set up
tidal night
i'd recommend putting the last one into either calisthenics program or forced overtime, but i know you said no FO so idk
sly remnant
i do not think you should ever take CP with your 32s
fringe sundial
@white magnet i mean have you done it before?
white magnet
Done what?
rain sedge
that EM4 and BP2 won't be easy for first 32
tidal night
yeah
fringe sundial
32 skulls
tidal night
well benefits package isn't awful
white magnet
EM4 is easy. It's all the other stuff
tidal night
oh wow, em4 is one of the hardest for me lol
white magnet
And I just hope I don't run into the amry of lasers this time..
They're so annoying
sly remnant
i mean EM4 is fine with FO0
hell HL5 LC4 EM4 is super manageable
until you turn on FO
white magnet
I will get hit by Hades... So I don't think I can do more than HL1...
rancid stirrup
i find the third phase of em4 not so bad
the summon phase of phase 1 is what usually got me
mossy zinc
Dash startup and recovery are not invincible.
rancid stirrup
what dash did you pick?
tidal night
phase 3 itself isn't super hard, the problem is that it makes the fight longer imo
white magnet
Divine dash
tidal night
phase 1 and 2 just whittle me down to nothing for phase 3 which makes it hard for me
white magnet
But I'm starting to think it's so useless...
Maybe I should just try out Gilga aspect and use Poseidon's dash...
sly remnant
lol divine dash is not useless
mossy zinc
Divine Dash is easily the best boon in the game. No competition.
cedar thistle
divine dash is godly
white magnet
I find it extremely useless in terms of how the mechanics works -_-
sly remnant
don't forget you have less i-frames when you dash strike
white magnet
There's literally no reason for me to use it when I sometimes can't rely on dash at all
mossy zinc
no i-frames when you Dash-Strike*
sly remnant
then you didn't time it right
mossy zinc
Then you've got to work on your timing.
rain sedge
I mean, we're trying to help you out here but you're swatting down our suggestions quite rudely. You're not supposed to breeze through 32, just give it a practice and you'll get it eventually.
white magnet
Practice is not gonna beat a game that ignores me, though
sly remnant
lol
gaunt fiber
yes it will
rain sedge
The game does not ignore you. The game is the same for everyone 
sly remnant
i understand being frustrated but the game isn't cheating
gaunt fiber
The game does not ignore you. The game is the same for everyone
@rain sedge Wrong, I got 50% less hp than the average player
white magnet
Sure. It also didn't just jump into the poison when I tried to dash away...
rain sedge
I heard it's called "psycho tax" @gaunt fiber
mossy zinc
Blaming the game for your own faults isn't gonna help you make progress, I'm afraid.
rain sedge
you gonna get 45 with it or nah @gaunt fiber ?
rancid stirrup
...maybe check your controller or something, game responds perfectly in my experience
rain sedge
you taking AP1?
mossy zinc
If you press dash before moving the stick, he's gonna dash in the direction he faces.
rain sedge
your build don't need a high roll right
yeah that 50 goal... idk. It's hard, even on eris
gaunt fiber
High roll is deadly flourish charged skewer in tartarus
white magnet
I use keyboard + mouse
tidal night
is this a reccuring problem or did this only happen once
rain sedge
compared to like, merciful ending fist or chiron heart rend
gaunt fiber
at 50 I'll take AP2 tho
rain sedge
that's an oof
tidal night
i've had something similar happen to me with bow aim but all i had to do was just close out the game and open it again
rain sedge
anyway I'm not the person to talk about 50, I haven't got it, probably will never
mossy zinc
Either way, it's player execution. You'll make fewer mistakes like that with practice.
white magnet
Nyaa, I know when I make mistakes. But I also know when it dashed the wrong way...
gaunt fiber
who's is this Nyaa you refer to ?
tidal night
Nyaa, I know when I make mistakes. But I also know when it dashed the wrong way...
@white magnet did this only happen once or is this a reccurring problem
white magnet
It happened in two runs, some days ago
fringe sundial
@white magnet i have the same peoblem too
Sometimes
Do you play with a controller?
tidal night
i've had something fairly similar happen when i was playing bow and it wouldn't let me aim anywhere but down sometimes
but it could also just be user error
rain sedge
I'm not falling for your troll again @gaunt fiber
still haven't reported you for that time
gaunt fiber
fringe sundial
For me the avatar just changes direction randomly sometimes when there is no input
mossy zinc
nya can probably say more
I'm the one who told @gaunt fiber to do 50 lol.
gaunt fiber
Btw I checked it out, lord of the rings sure is something @rain sedge
white magnet
I also refuse to use assist aim due to the fact it sometimes shoots an enemy 45% away from my mouse...
It's so tilting against the first boss...
rain sedge
you didn't do 50 eris, did you nya?
mossy zinc
I did 52 Beowulf.
rain sedge
not sure who I can talk to about 50 eris, the usual suspects didn't do it with eris
wtf? you're also a psycho?
rain sedge
bullying 😦
fringe sundial
@white magnet for me the sloder on the controls foxes that
rain sedge
it's ok I'll be the dirty eris player
fringe sundial
I dont remember the option name
white magnet
Sloder?
mossy zinc
you're also a psycho?
I've done 32 mirrorless with all weapons but shield lol.
rain sedge
yeah we know that part of being a psycho
mossy zinc
Got to phase 2 part 2 today with Chaos Aspect, though. So almost there.
fringe sundial
When it is low it helps me snap to enemies near by when the sloder has a high value is good for agat
mossy zinc
(No EM4.)
rain sedge
idk if you were here for the beowulf discussion
fringe sundial
Slider*
rain sedge
wait, hang on
if you got 52 with beowulf, why would it be a problem to get 32 RI4 with beowulf?
surely at 52 you already have RI2 or something
mossy zinc
I had RI3 and a +400% Charged Flight seed.
rain sedge
so you just need 1 hammer upgrade, you can do it for sure
white magnet
Think I could try RI1 on 32?
mossy zinc
It does +200% now, and I don't do seeded.
rain sedge
to quote you, RI4 is free :3
oh I didn't realise that nerf
I played only on 1.36 release
mossy zinc
I got way farther way more easily with Chaos Aspect, so I'll just take that.
I could do TD2 with Beowulf, but where's the fun in that. I want to do TD3.
white magnet
Btw, why was Chaos shield so good back then? I've only tried the 1.0 version 🤔
mossy zinc
It shot the shields in a star pattern lol.
mossy zinc
And they would bounce. So you'd just hit everything in the room.
white magnet
Ohhhh
I waaaaaant that
That'd be so fun against the giant army of gem lasers!!
Does that seem reasonable? 🤔
mossy zinc
Sure. Go for it.
tidal night
yeah that looks pretty good
also i didn't realize you didn't use UC, so you could swap that out for something if you wanted
entirely your decision though
gaunt fiber
UC is really ok
cedar thistle
yea with dark foresight you get enough boons that, UC really isn't that impactful, the down side is negated by the fact that it lets your poms be more accurate imo.
and the gold comes in handy for that CF anyways :B
AP on the otherhand can make or break a build
sly remnant
if you are playing something consistent like fists, rail, or bow then AP isn't bad at all
*AP1
pick fists
cedar thistle
or even AP2 for hestia :B
mossy zinc
Don't take AP then.
gaunt fiber
better getting used to it
building some spirit
or destroying it until there's no more hope
therefore no disappointment
white magnet
Hmm... I don't think GY is the aspect for me with TD2 :I
gaunt fiber
just a matter of practice
One day I said "there is no way I can take TD3 with GY'
And god appeared
saying precisely this "you can do TD3"
mossy zinc
You misspelled my name.
gaunt fiber
and guess what ? I can
You misspelled my name.
@mossy zinc Yeah it's an old habit, sorry.
sly remnant
I would not suggest GY for most peoples first 32
mossy zinc
cedar thistle
i don't think gy is a good idea either. it just has less room for major errors
sly remnant
eris, dem, or hera are all good starter 32 heat aspects
cedar thistle
lots of good 32 start aspects imo
gaunt fiber
GY was my first 32, it's alright
cedar thistle
Poseidon/achilis cast.
hestia/chaos.
sly remnant
yea but those aspects let you take AP1 because of how consistent they are
mossy zinc
AP isn't a good choice at 32 either way.
mossy zinc
I don't agree with that at all.
Much easier to get a broken build without AP.
That can just carry you through the run.
Easy to guarantee any core boon you want (read: Divine Dash).
sly remnant
yea but if someone is bad
just get lightning attack and divine dash
with AP
its very doable
its not like you are playing a high-roll weapon
sly remnant
like eris + lightning attack + divine dash + aphro/arti special
thats a broken build already and only has 3 boons
lol i would not suggest a hestia player take AP of course
mossy zinc
Much easier to get Splitting Bolt and the hammers you want without AP.
cedar thistle
i think hestia is one of the best AP candidates
sly remnant
do you need splitting bolt?
cedar thistle
just need a good aphro/arte strike.
rain sedge
I mean crepes did 50-something with hestia because exactly that reason right
sly remnant
i haven't played much hestia
mossy zinc
I don't need any boons for 32. The point is that Splitting Bolt makes 32 incrediby easy on Eris, way easier than whatever you're dodging by taking AP.
mossy zinc
I never wrote that.
cedar thistle
nice edit
sly remnant
right but my point is that if someone is bad at the game
gaunt fiber
Sure thing, my eyes tend to deceive me
sly remnant
just get those boons with AP1 and take the free heat
cedar thistle
if someone is bad. going for high rolls might be the way to go, you say?
maybe, there's some truth.
sly remnant
yes
gaunt fiber
It depends
mossy zinc
A broken build will always be easier than dodging 2 Heat elsewhere.
gaunt fiber
If you want to get 32 and quit yes
cedar thistle
the first of many?
loud coral
Still avoiding RI like the plague on 45 
gaunt fiber
Em4 gamer ?
cedar thistle
i wish there's more fine tuning for heat.
RI can be splited up even more. TD can be splited up too.
gaunt fiber
You're alright with TD3 JS3 ?
cedar thistle
28 to 20 mins is such a huge jump :C
loud coral
I usually get Zeus so it's fine, plus I don't think I'm willing to put heat anywhere else
Maybe I'll do RI1 and take 2 points off JS but idk
sly remnant
what weapon?
loud coral
I usually try and get Phalanx Shot with the duo but I'll probably start using Zeus
sly remnant
ohhhhhh
well theree's no way you can afford RI going for lightning phalanx
its too boon dependent
loud coral
I might just start using Zeus though, less work and the lower damage is worth it for the boons and speed
Actually with Zeus cast should I do RI1 DC0 instead of RI0 DC2?
mossy zinc
Nope.
mossy zinc
The answer to the question "Should I do RI instead of . . . ?" is nope.
loud coral
Makes sense to me, tbh I thought RI2 was the big spike but RI1 already seems terrible
dire steppe
RI instead of AP2
mossy zinc
I'll take AP2.
sly remnant
blasphemy
cedar thistle
lies. we all know you'll take RI4 rather than AP2
sly remnant
i hella would
loud coral
RI4 LC4 👀
mossy zinc
I like AP2.
sly remnant
we know
rain sedge
actual psycho
mossy zinc
RI4 is also fun.
loud coral
"fun"
dire steppe
we should get AP-1 which gives you -5 heat
cedar thistle
The answer to the question "Should I do RI instead of . . . ?" is "why not both".
dire steppe
57 heat zag spear then
mossy zinc
No, I'd rather take RI4 AP2 than Zag Spear.
mossy zinc
I don't know, m not gonna take it to find out.
gaunt fiber
reaching elysium without getting charged skewer. Not getting it there either
farewell, run
sly remnant
i'm pretty sure explosive launcher zag spear is fine
mossy zinc
I think it's like budget Guan Yu special that requires a hammer.
Guan Yu basically just has Exploding Launcher with piercing from the start.
sly remnant
and half the health
gaunt fiber
and fireworks
gaunt fiber
less dmg excuse me
sly remnant
than exploding launcher i mean
mossy zinc
Way more damage because you pierce.
sly remnant
fair point
loud coral
Also doesn't the extra speed cancel itself out with the range
sly remnant
depends on what you are trying to do
white magnet
Well, I've gotten to the third boss with SD and LC4... I just don't like having so little hp against the third and fourth bosses...
sly remnant
look i'm not trying to say zag spear is broken, just that its not that bad
there are way worse aspects
mossy zinc
Are you taking Acorn in Elysium?
white magnet
Me? Yes
mossy zinc
You can try it with DDs and lower LC, but you'll have to put those points somewhere else.
There's no perfect solution. Something's gonna hurt.
white magnet
Well, the only way I'll be able to beat the others is by dodging 100%...
mossy zinc
Might as well go for that build then.
sly remnant
i mean
mossy zinc
100% Dodge. 
mossy zinc
Yeah, it is.
sly remnant
like i know it sounds like we are meme'ing
white magnet
You can't get 100% dodge chance, though?
white magnet
Did they change that? Because the video I watched said otherwise 🤔
mossy zinc
The video was wrong then.
white magnet
Wouldn't really matter anyway... I can't clear the game fast enough for the keepsake to be effective
mossy zinc
We used to assume it wasn't additive until somewhat recently.
Well, but you can stack damage reduction on Excalibur for massive eHP. It's not additive, but you still get a whole lot of eHP.
white magnet
"eHP"?
sly remnant
effective health points
white magnet
Okay
mossy zinc
You start with 150 HP. If you apply Weak with Heartbreak Strike and stand in your aura, you have effectively 357 HP at that point.
That's just from Holy Aura and Weak.
Any DR or Dodge you add after that adds even more eHP.
By starting with the Eternal Rose for Heartbreak Strike, you also have a very good chance of getting Life Affirmation, Broken Resolve, and Different League.
And you can go for Zeus' Aid + Smoldering Air + Second Wind.
DPS also won't be an issue with Heartbreak Strike.
white magnet
The sword is just too slow for me 😐
cedar thistle
zag fist + feather could kinda do a 32 pretty "easily", but you can't control gods 😐 need to pray for a good strike... lets you easily take DC too
mossy zinc
You have 17 HP. What are you worried about?
gaunt fiber
Actually I cleared it in 8 seconds and died in the next room lol
Damn steroids witches
You have 17 HP. What are you worried about?
@mossy zinc yeah it's quite enough
mossy zinc
I feel like that's 16 more than you need.
white magnet
Think it's risky to try doom setup for TD2?
mossy zinc
That's not very specific.
white magnet
Chiron + doom special + hopefully stacks
white magnet
Deadly flourish?
mossy zinc
Yes.
white magnet
What is it?
mossy zinc
That's Lady Artemis's Special boon.
white magnet
Oh, okay
mossy zinc
Heartbreak Strike, Deadly Flourish, and Heart Rend.
white magnet
Artemis special + hopefully a chaos special?
mossy zinc
That's the combo you want.
white magnet
Heart Rend? What does that do? 🤔
gaunt fiber
It has a solid 20% chance to be deadly
white magnet
Ohhh, okay
mossy zinc
It's their Duo Boon.
white magnet
Isn't crit just 2x dmg? 🤔
mossy zinc
No, it's x3.
white magnet
Huh...
Neat
I feel like I'm about to waste 25 mins of my life with HL5 and FO1...
mossy zinc
It's practice either way.
loud coral
Just had a super good 45 run messed up by me forgetting to get the Athena SD boons
Had like 350 health by Theseus too 
ripe crane
Remembering when to die on purpose is tough
true fable
better than getting the dd and losing it before first phase dad
i really was not ready for em4 fo2 hl5 lol
dont know why i thought that was the good progression for 40->45
the 4 points just looks so tempting
wraith imp
Wait...
Can rama's special stop projectiles like hades spear throw?
Is that what happens here at 35:56 - 35:57?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCWBhtEe01o
cerulean frigate
hades spear throw can be stopped by anything that interacts with projectiles
wraith imp
Interesting.
See...I first started out using rama zeus special builds but they didn't do enough damage after that was nerfed.
So I switched to rama artemis attack/dash-attack builds with twin shot / triple shot / point blank and used rama special sparingly or as needed for shared suffering.
So I had been relying on repulse shot hammer upgrade to stop hades spear throws.
rama special stopping hades spear throws is super useful. Good to know.
Thanks @cerulean frigate.
wraith imp
Yeah, that helped haelian on his run. But the +3 extra dashes (with athena dash) were the real gamechanger imo.
white magnet
Chion + crit special + 4 shots + +3 dmg/special x)
Now I just have to get to Hades with 3 DDs...
wraith imp
@white magnet am i right in thinking you have artemis for chiron?
is that what you meant by "crit special"?
white magnet
Yes
white magnet
There. 32 heat beaten
ripe crane
Nice! Hit us with that victory screen
cedar thistle
nice
white magnet
The epic flourish and the two hammers were pretty much the only good boons I got
I couldn't even get extra dashes...
cedar thistle
o even with the jerky for hades
he must have melted fast
you've divine dash too.
this build is pretty nuts. nothing to be upset about 😛
sly remnant
very solid build
white magnet
Was of no use against the FFFFEWFFEEWQF lasers that managed to hit me 70+ before I could get through the stupid room
I literally lost 2 DDs only because of lasers in Styx...
cedar thistle
😮
slate plank
ooooof
cedar thistle
gotta get used to them.
white magnet
What is there to get used to? It's the fact that they literally stun me for 5+ seconds because of FO, and they can run through my attacks
And what is the jerky? 🤔
cedar thistle
move out of the way once they start aiming
they can't hit backwards for example
but you don't really need to go all the way behind them
that cp2 tho :B
sly remnant
i only turn to CP when its between that and AP
ripe crane
Jerky is the well of Charon item that gives attack damage
cerulean frigate
there's 2 jerky items now and then the jerky Patroclus offers
true fable
cyclops is attack and chimaera is special i think
neat furnace
yep
Pat offers a 60% attack buff for 10 rooms unlike cyclops jerky from the well which gives 30% buff for I think 6 rooms?
north dove
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/725021639506526249/778362436876894239/unknown.png somehow got a 51 win with a pretty mediocre build
twilit orbit
wow you're so good
I really wish the spreadsheet was updated so I could see how many aspects have cleared 50 heat
ripe crane
Eris/Lucy/Hestia all officially best rail
north dove
Zag Rail
ripe crane
I wanna make shotgun happen but rolling for it with AP2 is too grindy for me
north dove
Chill on attack everything is good
ripe crane
I think your 50 also had greater inferno. Do you find that it actually does work or is that just a coincidence?
gaunt fiber
just out of curiosity
how long does it take you to grind a 50 heat run
or maybe you do it naturally, third reset and here we go
north dove
51 lucy took around 12ish attempts, 75% of them made it to Hades
north dove
all that practice with melee weaps makes ranged much easier
ripe crane
I wonder if TD2 is actually necessary without JS2 and CP1
Probably. I don't think those two added 7 minutes
north dove
I just checked the record room and it looks like lucy took 19 attempts. 9 of them were tartarus losses, 8 to Hades and 1 to bone hydra.
gaunt fiber
I feel a little bit better know that I'm not the only one dying the most in tartarus
Hardest area
north dove
Homing witches 
rain sedge
that stats is somehow more impressive than the fact that you did 51 on lucifer
using AP2 and still getting epic boon is something else though
maybe I do need to grind 50 harder
tidal night
what are the best mirror talents for chiron bow?
true fable
which ones are you split on?
tidal night
priveliged status vs family favorite
deep pockets vs golden touch
dark regeneration vs cthonic vitality
shadow presence vs fiery presence
right now i'm using all of the dark ones except for fated persuasion
true fable
priv status if you have 2 curses in mind that are easily achievable
deep pockets is always the move imo
rain sedge
"except fated persuasion"?
true fable
you should be using dark foresight
tidal night
i'm using dark versions for everything on the mirror, fated persuasion is the only green thing i'm using
true fable
dark foresight is too good not to be using
rain sedge
I'm in a middle of a TD3 run so can't check, but isnt fated persuasion the boon reroll one?
mossy zinc
Privileged Status for Low Tolerance, Family Favorite for Heart Rend.
tidal night
yeah it is
tidal night
gotcha
mossy zinc
Stubborn Defiance at high heat.
tidal night
i use heart rend more so i'll probably go for family favorite then
rain sedge
your questions are situational. let me try to answer it
true fable
stubborn defiance means you dont really care about dark regen vs cthonic
rain sedge
oops nya got there before me
true fable
shadow is better than fiery for chiron imo
mossy zinc
Stygian Soul.
rain sedge
for low heat, use dark regeneration if you're collecting bounty, cthonic vitality if not
tidal night
i usually don't have lasting consequences very high which is why i've been using death defiance
mossy zinc
Bottom 4 all green.
rain sedge
the darkness at the end boss means you heal a lot, but you don't get that when you're doing bounty
mossy zinc
High Confidence if you're confident.
tidal night
im not very confident lol
true fable
but i think we will agree to disagree on pride vs legacy
rain sedge
deep pocket for high heat with UC + LC, golden touch if you want to get extra blood/diamond at styx
god's legacy or not is your personal call
true fable
dark foresight is almost universally agreed upon as the superior mirror option though
rain sedge
I like getting epic boon on chiron
mossy zinc
LC4 with Stubborn Defiance is standard at 40+.
tidal night
thank you all for the advice!
mossy zinc
And pretty much all the experienced players run it at 32, too.
At least from what I've seen.
rain sedge
there's some argument to be made for not taking LC4 and DD and getting EM4 instead, but... yeah
true fable
or just be wobbles and take DD LC4 until heat 45 LOL
tidal night
ok my mirror now is
shadow presence
dark regeneration
stubborn defiance
greater reflex
boiling blood
stygian soul
deep pockets
thick skin
family favorite
dark foresight
god's legacy
fated persuasion
true fable
that looks pretty good
rain sedge
not sure about god's legacy but ok
true fable
yeah i dont want to argue about god's legacy for the third time this week
tidal night
yeah legacy is the most debatable one for me
rain sedge
I mean the only legendary you want is heart rend
true fable
so ima sit this one out
twilit orbit
I think cthonic vitality is better than dark regeneration but if you're on LC4 it doesnt matter at all
mossy zinc
God's Legacy is amazing.
rain sedge
I'll take this argument then
tidal night
oh boy
rain sedge
ok so - for things like eris where sea storm and splitting bolt is a huge tier upgrade to your damage, I take god's legacy
true fable
at least it's more interesting than the priv status vs FF discussion from like 3 weeks ago
rain sedge
but let's be honest here. chiron needs heart rend, that is it
and the difference between epic and common on the boons you need actually stacks up
the one that gives + damage to weak enemy - you want that on epic
your special - you want that
hide breaker, the extra crit damage, it all benefits a lot from the epic
you'll get heart rend one way or another
and you only really need heart rend at 32 on elysium anyway, and maybe not even then
we're talking about chiron here. Other aspects, it's a different story
also getting common hermes dash is a bit of a kick in the nuts if we're being real
mossy zinc
No, you won't get Heart Rend one way or the other. You might not even go for that if you roll into e.g. an early Drunken Flourish. There's no good reason to not take that.
mossy zinc
You don't need more than 2 dashes. 3 is already free.
rain sedge
5 dashes or bust
we're talking about the heart rend build, if we wanna talk about the dio build it's a idfferent story
mossy zinc
Dismissing all the potential for other Duo Boons or Legendaries just because Heart Rend is the focus is just silly tbh.
gaunt fiber
it's high heat town boyo, you don't decide on your build there
rain sedge
he's talking about 32, no?
gaunt fiber
Do I look like I know how to read ?
mossy zinc
You don't know at the start of your run if Heart Rend is what you'll end up with.
rain sedge
twilit orbit
oof
rain sedge
I mean, if I'm running 32, I'm pretty damn sure I'm rerolling for heart rend
but that's just me
anyway
better focus up on 50 so I can flex
I had such a good tidal dash run...
bleak void
stubborn defiance or death defiance for 32+ heat runs?
north dove
I wouldn't use SD until 40 imo but it's up to personal preference
gaunt fiber
we're all stubborn clowns
rain sedge
"we"?
mossy zinc
I take neither at 32.
rain sedge
what a flex
nya do 32 boonless all weapons
the next time someone ask what build you do at 32, say no boon
mossy zinc
I think mirrorless is harder than boonless lol.
gaunt fiber
No shackle of course
gaunt fiber
make sure to go shopping twice
north dove
51 heat lucifer vid is up in #self-promotion
misty hamlet
finally got my 45 heat https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725021639506526249/778400212879409192/45hera.png?width=1249&height=702
45 heat hera, that is
i had much better builds make it to dad and fail but this one got almost all the way through elysium without losing a DD because piercing volley with hangover special is ballin
north dove
Nice, congrats!
rain sedge
those are scary heats wobbles
true fable
blackout pog
how did the ice wine work out
ive never done trippy shot hera but just assumed ice wine was not good
misty hamlet
It worked pretty well, it's got a weird delay but generally it wasn't an issue
I ran out of rerolls and ended up losing my main attack frost shot, so I didn't have a way to apply privileged status or slow things down so I was glad I had it for styx
it's a shame I never got an extra cast, because with my main attack applying hangover and my first cast putting enemies in fog, it would have been a real easy way to access casts with the dio legendary
rain sedge
I tried zeus 40, going to pass, thanks
honest kernel
That moment when I even dared to 50 heat with that lmao
In the mean time, trying stuff out for potential 50 heat Achilles spear
Blizzard Shot ain't one of them : Boss damage's nuts, but it's too slow for rooms
true fable
yeah that thing just moves so goddang slow
rain sedge
idk, maybe I'm bad, and my eris 45 was a fluke
I want to get all weapons 40 but idk why that's so hard for me 😦
I want my victory screen to look 5x40 heat and eris 50 heat
gaunt fiber
Because it's hard
You should focus on things you are bad at in order to improve
You're not going to become a god gamer easily
40 heat is no small feat
You will get there eventually
Through practice (and will to practice of course)
That's how I see things anyway. I thought 40 GY was madness at first. But it became easier after a while, until I succeeded
And really, at the beginning I was litteraly dying room 4. Then to TD3 vs Meg. Then able to make it in time, then saving some
And you have plenty of god gamers here to provide game knowledge to progress even faster
End of monologue !
lost otter
Hello i dont be this along time) i saw some Hermes cup. and saw even speed runers do not use this Tip on weapons. and i create a some video. This tip extreamly impactfull on GY and Artur.becaus they slow. hope you learn how to do this.
its not self propromotion.just wana give to ppl my experience how to play artur fast and effective. i have only ONE dash and i do this.(yup its ruthless reflex on video). to do it you need start base attack,and befor animation realy starts you need do dash strike. its create a DOUBLE attack with ONE animation and decrease time befor second base attack( second swing in combo) can be started. its mean almost immidiatly 2 attack of artur(base and dash strike)+ fast second swing.its work almost on all weapons. hope players learn how to do this.Sry for low quality and FPS. my pc not so good.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/bw5e058wxva7k3z/Artur 2 tips.mp4?dl=0
daring hedge
I want to get all weapons 40 but idk why that's so hard for me 😦
40 heat can be hard! it takes a lot of practice to be able to do 40+ at all. you'll get there if you keep playing, i'm certain
gaunt fiber
Yeah I guess writing another Bible was not necessary
Thanks Sergei, I'll check it out !
lost otter
Its was rude but hope you so smart to can do explaning much shorter to any one can undestand easy.How to do this and what its does.
gaunt fiber
I was talking about my own message, Tailesque said it shortly
No misunterstanding here buddy
lost otter
sry english not my main and i not a buddy to any one.
gaunt fiber
No problem
dusty flint
I not a buddy to anyone
It's a throwaway term m8
Also why do you feel attacked xD
I'm sure he didn't mean to be rude
Ikik came in well after the fact
lost otter
sry english not my main. Im my country some think like" buddy" say only thug and bandints.people are more respectful to each other and do not try close distance with strangers.and dont say some think like this.
dusty flint
Ah ok
Usually terms like buddy/m8 are used way more loosely
Just to address somebody in a friendly/more open manner
lost otter
its fun but most ppl think in my country ppl bad or rude or some think in this way. becaus im from russia. but we more respectfull) now i understand. he just wana be more frendly.
ty
dusty flint
Ah okay
Yeah I heard from a Russian friend it's a bit more distanced
Sry for not understanding the cultural barrier
Also writing ofc lacks the nuance voice and gesture can bring a across
So it's harder to judge intentions
lost otter
friend not more distance. its super deep word in russia.Abd super close. and "Friend" in my country has more weight even "mom" or "dad".Friend can be alote closer than parrents. that why when stranger say to you some think like baddy its rude and danger.
twilit orbit
man its a shame that I dont record videos
dusty flint
That's really interesting
twilit orbit
I just got a 15 minute 32 heat run, which isn't spectacular but its reasonable for the speedrun board
dusty flint
For me the term friend is more coded to tonal/gesture stuff
Also moments/experience you share
So "Bruder" (Brother) in German is a term to address people on your level
While friends etc know that the same word has a different meaning when using it regarding them
lost otter
if in russia some one say to you Bro. its super rude. or this man can take bullet for you or sell his internal organs and all what he have to help you.and i do note lie. best male friends like famaly and say to each other Bro.For russia, this is a very expensive and important word, like honor and duty. be carefull with this words to russians ppl.🙂 in real life they can punch you for this if you say some this like Bro or buddy (or another word in same way)to stranger
dusty flint
Hmm
In germany it can also mean that
But the person you say that to is important
Not the word
Anyways
Very interesting to know!!!
I'll stop derailing this channel now ^^
Have fun discussing guys :D
lost otter
Have a Gn) im need to go)
tidal night
suure
dusty flint
So see you in half an hour with a victory screen
tidal night
lol
dusty flint
Or in my case when I wake up