i only played once cuz it was a journey...
i cant imagine breezing thru the start of the game now
#h1-high-heat-strategies
peak oyster
i know here is full of pyre stans cuz its a SGG server but gosh, i wish it was easier to find them around
true fable
im kinda scared to play it now 
heady olive
im having trouble clearing elysium with td3, made it to the boss with 15 seconds left
is guan yu supposed to take longer to clear elysium? felt like my dmg was too low
my dmg was also mainly from my special
tidal flame
What heat are you playing on? I feel like most things can be slow depending on pacts and what not.
heady olive
32
HL4 LC4 JS1 EM3 BP2 MM UC TD3
not sure if my dmg shld come from special or dash striking
peak oyster
i only heard memes about guan yu rockets
holy f, now im actually understanding
HL4 on GuanYub wtf
true fable
@heady olive with that heat setup why not just lean into it and do HL5 JS0
misty hamlet
peak oyster
What you guys think is a good replacement for EM4?
Like, im getting to the hades fight and burning down completely there
so i was wondering if i could ditch EM4 and work my way arkund something else
idk im just being dumb and frustrated
i got so close twice today and after that its been downhill
heady olive
wait i did not know athena last stand works with sd
since her boon gave me +12% my sd heals me to 42% every time
thats so op omg
tidal flame
did you know you can get an extra DD with Athena boon even if you have SD also?
heady olive
yea i knew that
edgy arrow
idk about op but its nice
edgy arrow
you're not wrong
formal gust
ok I will be attempting 40 heat beo soon
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/392070250511728653/777387394277703730/unknown.png ok maybe 45
yes my bounties are only 8
formal gust
this pact in particular or just 45 heat
true fable
im basically using that pact for my attempts
formal gust
ok I died on tartarus mini boss
welp
I signed up for this
for some reason I had dio keepsake and didn't get dio before another god????????
STOP GIVING ME A HAMMER FIRST AHGDFOIUAL:WHDFOUPI
peak oyster
with MM BP and FO2 u dont have to take EM4
@heady olive
My usual setup is
LC2
JS3
EM4
BP2
MM
UC
FO1
DC2
TD2
turned on HL2 cuz DC2 tanked a lot of sword runs for me still on tartarus.
heady olive
try going LC4 maybe
valid flame
any tips for EM4 with rail? kinda hard to not see anything with it on hades
heady olive
and HL4 to make up for EM4
ripe crane
Turn on CF2. Then LC4 with stubborn denial, or take HL2 up to HL4
Alternatively AP1 isn't bad
heady olive
oh yea CF exists
peak oyster
any tips for EM4 with rail? kinda hard to not see anything with it on hades
@valid flame
real talk, you do best by waiting for him to miss, he has a way of announcing where he is
ripe crane
any tips for EM4 with rail? kinda hard to not see anything with it on hades
@valid flame Turn your brightness up
formal gust
alright maybe I should turn this down to 40 lol
peak oyster
got my stuff mixed up, yeah, i use CF maxed not LC maxed
still, might try the stubborn revive with LC 4 to not fight EM4
if i get lucky, i might even get that duo from demeter/athena
edgy arrow
LC4+SD is way easier than dealing with EM4 for sure
edgy arrow
EM4?
heady olive
wish there was a boss rush mod
static plover
their might be one, if not worth brining up in the hades modding discord 
formal gust
rip died to hades again
not a single extra cast that run
I feel like I should get some athena DDs
obtuse herald
Am I crazy, or is em furies (Meg then Alecto, not Tis) the second hardest boss fight in the game after em4?
You don't have your build, and with overtime 2, they just never stop attacking, especially Meg, and they have ridiculous AOE.
If I don't lose a DD there, the runs probably good. Lernie is a pushover, and em T&A I usually have the acorn.
cedar thistle
Meg is only trouble with forced overtime imo. Those circles appear and explode fast
Alecto is pain. I agree
obtuse herald
Yeah without FE they're not too hard, but I need the 6 heat from FE
obtuse herald
Yeah but is that because elysium itself is harder than tartarus, and you go into the fight with lower health, or is it harder? Asterius is still predictable with FE2, so it doesn't feel unfair except for the absurd damage
And when he spams the move where he charges after you for like 45 damage
cedar thistle
I just find it way harder. Asterius without range can be tricky when he is fast.
obtuse herald
I always get caught in his swings when I'm using fists or autospear or flurry blade and I forget to stop attacking while dashing
twilit orbit
the thing about the furies is that they have pretty low hp
if your damage is fairly good going into the fight it is much more manageable because you can interrupt their attacks by forcing a phase transition
cedar thistle
The thing keeping them alive is the phase changes
obtuse herald
Yeah my current best strategy is just face tanking
cedar thistle
Haha
twilit orbit
and then deal some more damage after they transition phases
every time you hit a phase transition it gives you a bit of breathing room to reposition, set up, recover your dashes, etc
so if you have decent dps then the fight doesnt feel bad at all
obtuse herald
I spend so much time dodging for my life my dps goes waaaaay down.
Gotta fight the instinct to dodge and just go at them with best effort to dodge the painful stuff
unreal pasture
Only Alecto feels particularly obnoxious to me... because the blade rift she makes just instagib you
mossy zinc
I'd rather fight Alecto or Tisiphone than Megaera.
mighty shoal
why?Just find it easier to kill them?
glass adder
why would you rather fight anyone than tisiphone? she's easier to kill than most mini bosses lol
obtuse herald
Meg FO2 is constantly putting out damage and hits hard in a wide area. Meg > Alecto >> Tis
ripe crane
I definitely die to Alecto more. Tis is easiest though.
heady olive
omg
32 heat guan yu cleared
i wouldnt call it a guan yu run though
got smouldering air + aphro call so hades was charmed 24/7
heady olive
lernie has killed me a lot
true fable
it woulda been fine if it werent for heightened security
heightened security: fine until it's not
heady olive
yea hs can kill u fast with lernie
i think im done with guan yu for now its so tiring using it
true fable
why is my 40 heat beowulf asphodel split faster than my 6 heat hades aspect speedrun split
this is so sad
@trim sigil that makes too much sense
trim sigil
why is my 40 heat beowulf asphodel split faster than my 6 heat hades aspect speedrun split
I believe I got a record time on stygian blade running arthur 40
High heat is really good at making you consistently faster
true fable
take free rooms
figure out where enemies spawn in which rooms and figure out how to prioritize spawns
i made the most antisynergistic beo build and somehow locked myself out of every duo
true fable
update: it worked
has anyone done beo 50
in here
JS3 TD3 seems like it may not be the way
but i may have just gotten unlucky
honest kernel
Do you run EM4
honest kernel
Hmmm
true fable
i think i need to do HS
honest kernel
Just prepare yourself for the urns
true fable
it's either that, JS3, or AP2 
trim sigil
HS is kind of inevitable lesser evil at 40ish
Definitely not pleasant but still more free than everything else
true fable
i have it off for my 45 pact setup but im also a kbm loser so
id rather die to the deadline than to lava
hurts less for the soul
loud coral
I remember just doing bounties with sword on like 16 heat and realizing traps hit like wet noodles without HS
5 damage from spikes is basically nothing
true fable
i tend to forget about unshakeable mettle just because its such a meme for speedruns
loud coral
Can't count how many times I've stepped on an urn for Dad to wombo-combo me with attacks and mobs right after
true fable
but i should probably consider it more seriously
loud coral
The lack of stun seems super nice yeah
true fable
especially since i'll probably take athena dash over thunder dash on beo from 40 up
true fable
my soul's still gonna be crushed inevitably when i get unshakeable mettle over mirage shot
thunder dash is quite good on beowulf for everything up to like 32-36ish imo
edgy arrow
current beo any heat record uses thunder dash
loud coral
Huh, weird
true fable
usually it'd be tidal dash
but splash dash kind of puts enemies in some weird spots for beo
edgy arrow
yeah exactly
true fable
also thunder dash just scales really well if you get even one more zeus boon
true fable
like thunder dash + jolted + scintillating feast? it's over
same thing with double strike
to a lesser extent high voltage
true fable
thunder dash is also more likely to strike an enemy when you do your standard dash strike + dragon rush combo
loud coral
I'd probably just take Divine Dash and Lightning Reflexes because I'm a coward
true fable
yep whereas ruptured basically does nothing for tidal dash
edgy arrow
it’s also the best option for a scintillating prereq
true fable
yep
edgy arrow
zeus attack/special are trash on beo, and the call doesn’t work for speedruns
loud coral
true fable
@loud coral i wouldnt take those in combo just because youd probably also want arty and pos in your pool
loud coral
Yeah it's gonna be a while until I git gud with Beo huh
true fable
it's a nice thought though
edgy arrow
nothing wrong with divine dash for high heat, regardless of weapon
or what gods you ideally want in your pool
true fable
my dream is to finally get dio aid on high heat and get blackout but that's probably never gonna happen
one of the few cases where blackout may be useful though
loud coral
Blackout is a weird boon
true fable
right
loud coral
Even when I have a reliable source of Hangover I don't notice it much tbh
true fable
i like it alot but it locked behind so much BS
loud coral
Assuming I even get blackout
heady olive
yep whereas ruptured basically does nothing for tidal dash
ruptured does a bit of dmg right
mossy zinc
why would you rather fight anyone than tisiphone? she's easier to kill than most mini bosses lol
She actually has the most HP out of the three, and you can't as easily phase her anymore.
heady olive
10 per 0.2s
true fable
they have to be moving iirc
edgy arrow
tisi’s only got 3 phases tho
true fable
but jolted is just like straight up 116 for epic jolted
heady olive
enemies are moving most of the time tho
true fable
like ruptured is fine, but i would almost never take it over other poseidon offerings
heady olive
hm
mossy zinc
Yes, but her getting 3 phases instead of 4 actually made the fight a bit harder.
true fable
unless i need privileged status, a mirror option i have not used in about 100 runs
loud coral
IIRC rupture can cause some jank, I think I've had EM3 Asterius just run in circles after getting ruptured for no reason
heady olive
IIRC rupture can cause some jank, I think I've had EM3 Asterius just run in circles after getting ruptured for no reason
wait thats good
edgy arrow
yeah ig because you can’t phaselock her
but still it feels faster to me
maybe an illusion idk
true fable
tis feels super predictable to me idk
mossy zinc
I like seeing Alecto the most.
loud coral
I like seeing Alecto the most.
Someone likes getting insta-killed
edgy arrow
tbh i don’t find them that different
true fable
@heady olive my point basically was that jolted is a big part of the reason why one would consider thunder dash, whereas razor shoals doesnt really come into the equation for picking tidal dash
edgy arrow
in terms of difficulty, anyway
honest kernel
If anything, Breaking Wave is what you want for Tidal Dash
mossy zinc
Alecto is the easiest for me. Her bladerifts are so easy to avoid.
true fable
alecto is a stationary object for 75% of the fight
loud coral
True, most of my successful runs have been with Alecto anyway
edgy arrow
other than her bladerifts all her attacks are just knock off easier versions of meg’s imo
mossy zinc
I actually have no clue if being knocked back counts as "moving" for Ruptured.
heady olive
yea i guess breaking wave is better
honest kernel
@mossy zinc It does
loud coral
If anything not getting Alecto sucks since you gotta deal with blade rifts on Tis/Meg
true fable
you push them back and they take extra ruptured damage
mossy zinc
Thanks. I thought it did, but I never bothered to pay attention.
true fable
it isnt really a boon one pays attention to unless you soak
mossy zinc
Yeah, back when I was trying for 56, seeing Meg would often just end my run lol.
That fight is brutal with 1 dash.
true fable
her big quad circles on FO2 feel sooo dang quick
mossy zinc
It's okay with two dashes at least.
true fable
like you just dash from one and she just starts another right under you and it's like
welp
guess im taking damage
loud coral
Back then I used to think Meg was the easiest, then again I was running Zag Spear so any opinion I had back then was invalid
Her bullet hell is super annoying with TD3 if you don't have a reliable deflect
true fable
meg was the easiest when i played on HL0 FO0 and actually enjoyed playing chaos shield
mossy zinc
She used to be until they buffed the hell out of her lol.
Or maybe more like into her.
loud coral
I just saw Zag Spear and was like "woah special damage i use special this is good", turns out 25% bonus special damage is nothing compared to a 150% damage bonus on attack/cast or attack/special
edgy arrow
indeed
true fable
and so a username was born
loud coral
I actually only keep the nickname up because I have a tradition of nicknaming myself [character] [verb] in any game-related server
All fun and games until you walk in a server and everyone calls you Yeeter
true fable
lol
loud coral
I've actually been trying out Hades a lot more and it's super solid
true fable
hades is fun i just like having flurry jab
loud coral
Tbh the skewer feels super slow but it feels nice not having to dash every second
I can't use Serrated Point on high heat anymore tbh
The dash range is okay, but the dash-strike lasts too long and iirc it doesn't interrupt enemies
Just too clunky imo
true fable
for me i just end up getting hit between dash strikes too much with serrated
also having your main dps also be your main escape option is 
like serrated is too good not to take
i just know i will be in a lot of pain down the line
loud coral
I think I just suck with it yeah
It's a good hammer but I prefer Flurry Jab alone just cause it's more reliable
wraith imp
Alecto is the easiest for me. Her bladerifts are so easy to avoid.
@mossy zinc
she's the toughest for me. when she goes in perma-rage for stage 4, she just spams the hell out of her circle attack and i can't seem to get a shot off on bow or spear or rail .
trim sigil
I find tisiphone a bit easier to predict than others. That's about it for preferences
true fable
tis is really telegraphed and has basically 4 attack patterns
you'll get used to it in time yeah
mossy zinc
She only does that Attack for a bit, so you just evade it, then you can attack her again.
It's only one circle, too. Meg does three at once.
wraith imp
alecto?
On f02 she give me about 2 seconds between a chain of 5 circles. If I'm on the wrong side of the chamber, i'm screwed. I usually end up just going in circles around the chamber.
gaunt fiber
you should check your brightness settings mate
obsidian sky
i had paused
gaunt fiber
ok, that one does not work either
obsidian sky
pausing turns the background darker
anyways, maim + maim hammer + ruthless reflex + butterfly + boiling blood + artemis max gauge call = fun
big nukes
obsidian sky
oh, lmao
gaunt fiber
I'm so bad at this
rain sedge
Does anyone know how the number of enemies in Thanatos chamber is determined?
obsidian sky
uhh, chaos boon / jury summons?
visual sand
It varies pretty wildly
obsidian sky
other than that idk
visual sand
I've seen 7/24 for Than/Zag and other times it's like 7/14
gaunt fiber
just wait
never ending
tartarus tho
but since it does not slow you down, it's ok
timber shoal
Ma dudes, what is the best companion to use? I was using Shady for its regen and gold, but I'm now attempting heat 40 with lasting consequences -100% so I need to start using another companion.
heady olive
meg companion
timber shoal
aight thanks
cerulean frigate
battie is good but takes some practice, she draws the line perpendicular to the direction zagreus is facing
antos is pretty good too
timber shoal
Good info, I was wondering about about the direction. Thanks
rain sedge
antos allows you to use it on furies, which can be a problem at 40
I've gotten used to meg, but when I'm at 50 I'm unironically using antos at the furies
you're at the weakest point compared to the enemy at furies
gaunt fiber
I'm using it so save time
cerulean frigate
wouldn't go battie or antos on rama, you can just instantly phase change the furies
rain sedge
but then you'd have to use rama
cerulean frigate
dusa's actually pretty good since rama is so good at bosses as a "oh crap this room has extremely nasty BP combo elites"
and she beats up asterius
but then you'd have to use rama
@rain sedge don't see the problem with that, it's one of the stronger aspects in the game right now
rain sedge
I know, I'm just being facetious because I hate rama
heady olive
how does antos work?
is it guaranteed dmg to 2 random enemies?
cant wait to finally use battie since i unlocked it recently, still havent gotten antos tho
trim sigil
1500 to 2 enemies (or 1500x2 to 1 if it's the only enemy in the room)
heady olive
so it cant miss?
trim sigil
iirc no
heady olive
yay
unreal pasture
It can miss
It just seems really consistent on how it deals damage
I've missed the Sneak with Antos... and seen it whiff on other things
unreal pasture
It shouldn't be able to oneshot it with armor
unreal pasture
Mm, yeah. Achilles pops in, does 1500, then Patroclus after a short delay...
how it targets though? It seems like there's an AOE around where they appear
gaunt fiber
No idea
cinder cave
I always kinda felt like it was just a homing single target attack
never really questioned it before
unreal pasture
It's definitely not ST...
You can blow up the duo mini-boss in Asphodel instantly (Dusa head and the rock thing)
It just has a pretty bad AOE radius
unreal pasture
They're a pretty good companion ... it's just ... they're not great against Theseus/Asterius... 7k dmg vs usually 3k, it's pretty hard to pull off hitting them both... since you have to stack them
So yeah... Meg seems like the go-to
7k (assuming you hit both the duo heroes)
Oh sorry, it's 5k
If you could do a perfect antos, you could get 6k dmg ... but stacking those two is very hard/dangerous
cinder cave
I like that Antos is low brainpower you just throw it out there. But Battie definitely has higher potential for Heroes
mossy zinc
Antos is great.
sly remnant
Antos is great for builds that really struggle early. Most builds prefer the consistency of meg. Just figure out what your build needs
cinder cave
@daring hedge nice mirrorless 40 rama run man, props
I fully appreciate that you took the time to thank your greatest fan
rain sedge
link?
rain sedge
what a god
rain sedge
you play with kbm?
cinder cave
I would love for the ability for auto aim tracking
yeah
KBM player
and FO1+ makes it hard to track the target
rain sedge
yikes
cinder cave
I hate playing with auto aim on KBM
it can't decide very well which one I want to hit
so with auto aim on it kinda feels like the bow is fighting back xD
cedar thistle
i miss so much with kbm.. esp dash attacks where you shoot perpendicular to your dash. it moves your cursor as you dash. and you need to have your cursor over the target as the attack comes out somewhere between your dash... it's not practical to do so consistently.
daring hedge
@cinder cave I try to remember to thank my greatest fan after every champs fight 
rain sedge
@honest kernel did you test out whether splitting headache with zeus (dio special, arty attack) was better than the standard poseidon attack + zeus special on zeus shield?
honest kernel
Wait Poseidon attack is standard on Zeus shield
did I miss the memo or what
It's like the last thing you want for rooms, unless you have Pulverizing Blow
Or get lucky with an early Breaking Wave gamble
honest kernel
I said Zeus special. Didn't specify duos
You just want to dig deep for Zeus
Get Double Strike and The Legendary ASAP
That's one of the builds I mentioned
The others : Merciful End, Artemis Special duos (Heart Rend, Deadly Reversal, Splitting Headache)
If you want to go full speedrun, Go for the Zeus special or gamble on Merciful End
If you want pure consistency/run RI and/or AP, you go with Artemis
Oh, I recall now : I did mention that maybe that Poseidon attack was a consideration.
I tried it out : The knockback is just bad for rooms unless you have Breaking Wave. Makes killing heavy enemies way harder than it needs to be
Same reason you wouldn't want Tidal Dash, really
@rain sedge TL;DR: Merciful End and Zeus hyper dip are likely the optimal builds assuming full mirror, Artemis special is more consistent if you have RI and/or AP at any level
I seriously hope I didn't say some bad stuff a few days back
formal gust
well first time getting past phase 1 of em4 on beo 45
it's so hard, you basically can't make any mistakes
almost considering turning it off
if I could get an athena DD maybe I could do it
true fable
@formal gust let's share notes i think charged shot bad for 40+
it's making asterius very difficult for heat 45 rn
formal gust
this actually isn't that hard apart from hades
true fable
i think i just need the pseudo dash from bull rush for asterius
his circles are harder to avoid with charged shot for me
honest kernel
To be frank, blocking in general with Beo is kinda hard, especially with FO2
You are forced to either dash-attack pre-emptively, or go through a tea party before the attack finishes and you can block
formal gust
died to hades again
alright this is like kind of absurd
this is gonna be pretty much every attempt
get to hades then die instantly
true fable
i got mirage in asphodel
formal gust
honestly nothing matters really hades just hits you 3 times and you die
true fable
not allowed to get excited but we're entering styx with 10 minutes
boutta get 5 sacked
i can feel it
also epic rush delivery so RNG is really gonna tilt against me sometime soon
formal gust
this is so hard I have to basically play perfectly to beat hades
true fable
im hoping mirage + rush delivery phases him but i doubt it
formal gust
wdym by phase
true fable
dad doesnt get to play the game basically
formal gust
this is starting to piss me off
daring hedge
if EM4 is stopping your runs, you don't have to take it for 45
dire steppe
considering starting a new file to cheese 50 heat 10th clear
formal gust
I mean those runs I wouldn't have beaten without it either
daring hedge
ah alright
formal gust
if I don't take em4 I would have to start taking some iffy stuff like more JS/CP and maybe even AP
north dove
that feeling when your dash gets locked during a boonless run and have to rely on dash nova to move around 
daring hedge
which can be a tradeoff that's worth it depending on how much trouble the final fight gives you, depending on aspect etc
formal gust
I'll try it and see how it goes
em4 makes the first 2 phases harder in addition to the new phase, right
daring hedge
yes
formal gust
oh then that is a very big deal
daring hedge
taking it off in favor of other pacts just shifts the balance of where the run's difficulty is distributed, really
true fable
what gave it away, the insta kill cerberus?
formal gust
what
hollow lynx
have you gotten there yet
formal gust
is that phase 3
daring hedge
2
formal gust
I have gotten to phase 2, halfway through
daring hedge
the cerberus part happens at some point after the 50% invuln of phase 2
dire steppe
Just get a second vermin sack to distract cerby ;)
formal gust
ok I should probably just not use em4 on 45 or go to a lower heat to learn it
wraith imp
https://imgur.com/jG8ELHJ
@gaunt fiber
than's blast ring is aesthetically pleasing. only arthur's special with greater consecration hammer looks cooler imo.
formal gust
btw it really sucks when you can't enter a chaos gate because you forgot to kys in that room
if there is lava, an infernal trove, or those regenerating bombs in elysium however, you still can
gaunt fiber
Yeah looks great
dire steppe
love me my suicide eggs
formal gust
idk when the last time I actually lost to thanatos wa
s
I think I just wasn't paying attention
dire steppe
i just had a thought.. is it possible for than to not instakill with that 9999 hit
ignoring armor obviously
dire steppe
idk about the butterfly ball with max CP
true fable
mirage shot + rush delivery did phase dad i just got worked by the sneak
dire steppe
but i don’t remember if he even shows up in elysium at all
formal gust
he does
true fable
cin i now feel your pain
very tough to cruise through 5/6th of the run
and then get stomped on by big dog
rain sedge
yeah I have like 10% dodge rate against cerberus
I swear I dodge the red aoe but somehow I still got hit for 50 damage or so
hollow lynx
when u dash out of a circle but another circle appears where you land
rain sedge
I feel like the way to do it is to get EM4 without losing acorn on low heat, but with FO2, and get used to it
for me at least, there's certain playstyle that works in low heat that made me learn bad habits
that bite me at 50 heat
I think someone suggested practicing with butterfly to practice not getting hit on chambers
upper edge
I thought the lower right part of the arena was always safe from Doggo?
rain sedge
but that means you will run TD2, and lose 3 heat
upper edge
Certainly feels that way
true fable
@hollow lynx this is exactly what happened to me
it is safe for every run except for mine apparently
rain sedge
yea that's a hard no, last run I got hit by cerberus there
upper edge
Dang
true fable
it is usually a safe spot though
formal gust
yeah I am turning off em4 for now
true fable
i think im gonna try it with EM4 a couple more times before i give up completely
tbh i just got sneaked
rain sedge
lower right as in south part right?
true fable
i was blocking and the sneak stunned me for dad to hit me for 110
true fable
doomstone basically doesnt matter for beowulf IMO
rain sedge
I don't like how beowulf playstyle is slow
because I usually play fast weapons like eris and chiro
formal gust
not really
there's a combo, dash attack to rush
you use it when your casts are down
rain sedge
the whole waiting for 5s for the stone wasnt great
@honest kernel for merciful ending zeus, do I put the doom on special or attack?
waxen relic
From what I've heard Athena special to stand in.
true fable
athena special or athena attack both work but imo athena special is better because ares attack is better for room clear before you get ME
im not a high heat zeus user though so whatever baj says is probably right
rain sedge
huh yeah, standing in the disk during alecto fight is nice
Q: does the charon well item that increase boon rarity improve the duo/legendary chance?
true fable
yes
waxen relic
Heard so
rain sedge
ah yeah, I forgot merciful ending has a hidden side effect of always hiding regardless of the actual chance
sigh
god's legacy btw
wraith imp
hang on...em4 hades can telelport out of nowhere and immediately go into his omni-directional lasers? wtf?
I've never had that happen to me (or maybe i didn't notice) until just now.
Phase 3 of em4 hades is rough.
wraith imp
i had fo2 on...so oof
wraith imp
thank goodness i had athena shield to help me to get to safety
honest kernel
@rain sedge Both can work. Ares on attack works better for rooms, because of bullrush and just generally more practical than relying on special for that. Ares on special is the most damage against bosses
true fable
that was my intuition but wasn't quite sure
which one do you prefer
or do you just go arty special and call it a run
honest kernel
Honestly, I'm practising Zeus special speedruns atm
And I actually haven't played too much with ME on zeus aspect
Rooms tend to be the most awkward spot tho
Bosses are more then dealt with
So Ares attack ?
You could honestly just get away with starting Ares and picking the doom with the highest Rarity
Whether attack or special
true fable
seems like an interesting idea
peak oyster
hey, coming here to say i managed to beat 32 with the sword, thanks @heady olive for recommending me the LC4 strategy
Fear is for the weak
Stars aligned and i got the regen slash and flurry slash on my zag aspect
FO helped me out cuz everybody exploded themselfs with jolting
Shame i cant send the screen cap here. I finished Hades like, 1 whole minute after the end of the deadline, i had never even tried before to hug him during the sun blast he does. Full yolo
north dove
Congrats
prisma tundra
@peak oyster I've had that before, not on high heat though like yourself, and I loved it! Pretty much invincible lol
peak oyster
i feel dorty being the only weapon o didnt winwith EM4 but a win is a win
rain sedge
zeus attack on sword?
and grats!
also baj, I didnt use bull rush a single time that run lol
honest kernel
It's cool
In my speedruns practise runs I didn't bother too much with them
I just did it in high heat so that I could stay relatively safe
twilit orbit
im trying to learn chaos shield right now and its real awkward
is it bad that I barely bull rush vs bosses
and just spam single shield special instead?
also i forgot to take athena in asphodel so rip extra DDs
honest kernel
Chaos shield's thing is basically Bullrush -> Special shotgun -> Dash -> Bullrush -> Special Shotgun ...
Altho that depends on what special you picked
But generally speaking, optimal DPS is via the bullrush pattern
twilit orbit
i have ares special
honest kernel
You could get away with it
Altho it would be slighty better to shotgun due to the base damage on the special/If you snatch Dire Misfortune
But it's fine as is
formal gust
45 heat done
oh my god taking off em4 made it so much easier
@true fable
am I a high heat gamer now
formal gust
think so?
honestly any pact past this one will dramatically increase the difficulty
like maybe you could get away with more JS or CP
true fable
yeah js3 made tartarus very tough for me on 50
formal gust
I think I beat tart within 30 second of timer tho
true fable
idk it felt terrible to me lol
i also got 0 free rooms those tries so maybe that contributed
true fable
i like dio special but rama special feels pretty flexible
main delta
for 4th shield is it better to run stygian soul and hope for an extra cast?
or just use infernal soul?
formal gust
I much prefer stygian
formal gust
pretty sucky without it
true fable
pretty sucky without it but i have had runs where i got away with only one
your life will feel much better with 2
you want to check almost all wells and use rolls if you don't need rolls for mirage shot/underworld customs
twilit orbit
lol im such a dummy
I tried to pop my stubborn defiance to heal in styx
enemy died to revenge boon
and I entered the next room at 7 hp and it was the sack room
I had to take an extra tunnel to heal :p
unreal pasture
Oh, I saw people talking about Chaos shield...
And I have a question if anyone really knows? It seems like once you get explosive return, you literally push more damage no longer doing the bullrush/shotgun rotation
Which ... I found to be ... obnoxious and dumb
unreal pasture
Correct, it does, yes
But you literally just shotgun in melee range spamming special, more dps than the rotation
You can't get 6 explosive return catches, that would be ... Eris rail cluster rocket tiers of broken
(Almost) 😂 since it'd be 390 base damage
true fable
explosive return is good yes but the damage falls off late if you don't build your special
it's good in tartarus though
you dont always have to get the extra shotgun shields
twilit orbit
how does beowulf do with JS or DC?
unreal pasture
I pretty frequently play it on Artemis but 🤷♂️
true fable
if all you did was bull rush -> special without thinking about what's most effective life would be pretty boring
DC1 is fine, DC2 kinda sucks
unreal pasture
Well... if you're not shotgunning shields, you kind of mooted the entire purpose of picking the aspect
true fable
i'm not saying don't do it
im saying there's times when throwing 1 shield may be equally effective lol
twilit orbit
I just did 32 heat with chaos shield and zag shield with:
HL2 LC4 CF2 JS3 EM3 BP2 MM UC DC1 AP1 TD2
I wanted to do 32 beowulf as well and was wondering what the easiest way to clear it would be
I kind of hate cast builds lol but I wanted to get familiar with every aspect
unreal pasture
Probably no damage control on Beowulf, but you might be able to get away with 1
true fable
i think you could definitely take DC1 and be fine
unreal pasture
The bullrush hit takes off their DC and then the cast hits, so it could be ok
true fable
that setup you posted earlier looks fine but if it were me i'd take out CF2 and do something like TD3 instead
yeah idk beowulf go quick
unreal pasture
The shield suffers in terms of damage ... and it's kind of intrinsic to its design
twilit orbit
am I supposed to do JS3 with TD3 on >.>
true fable
i would take off JS3 if you do TD3
twilit orbit
my last two runs with the shield were 27 min and 22 min
though this was with JS3 on
not beowulf though
true fable
yeah without JS3 that should be sub 20 but i guess depends on you
twilit orbit
with chaos and zag shield respectively
true fable
those are generally pretty slow paced weapons
twilit orbit
the 22 min zag shield run was really lucky though since I got ME
true fable
i personally have not had any time trouble with beo up to 45 heat
twilit orbit
it would have probably been a lot slower without it
i do stygian soul dio right?
okay im going to try +1 HL +1 TD -3 JS -1 DC
what do I look for besides trippy flare? @true fable
I just picked it up and have artemis or zeus as my next boon option
I also have an extra chaos cast stone
well, I will have it in one room
true fable
artemis is good
artemis on attack, pos on special and athena/zeus dash i'm a pretty big fan of
just to unlock good duos
twilit orbit
so I go for artemis room and get poseidon in tartarus for mirage shot?
true fable
that would be my mindset
twilit orbit
but is epic artemis special better than common artemis attack 
actually though the special is so awkward to use
so maybe not
oh i died to alecto
rip the run
rain sedge
I feel like 45 heat is the cutoff for actual good players
rain sedge
From the conversation at least
Looks like after 45 things get really ugly
It's either eating EM4 or trying your luck with RI and AP
loud coral
I'd rather do RI and AP than EM4 tbh
rain sedge
I have to take a break from trying 50, it's taking too much life out of me
There's this ideal situation where I run Ap2 and get the boons I want but
It's so mentally exhausting
loud coral
Part of me wants to run lower heats but the other part of me keeps saying that it's baby mode
true fable
just join us in speedrunning
loud coral
I'm down
true fable
less of a reset fest 
loud coral
Already speedrunning Dead Cells so might as well join Hades
true fable
i actually probably reset speed more than i reset high heat tbh
honest kernel
There's a breakpoint where RNG is gonna be the deciding factor
But it definitely happens late. Still gotta get your A-game rolling to be fast
twilit orbit
do I get ravenous will bonus damage if my cast is loaded but not used?
hollow lynx
yes, ammo count is still 0/x when loaded
twilit orbit
okay so I can just load my cast and never use it, and I'll have a permanent +30% damage bonus
loud coral
It's basically bonus cast damage on Hera and Beo yeah
twilit orbit
right now I have charged flight
so the plan is to load the cast and never use it for a permanent +30% special damage lol
true fable
hmm
that might actually be the most cursed way to play beowulf
i was wrong about infernal soul players
LUL
hollow lynx
the true play is ravenous will lightning rod 😛
twilit orbit
wait this charged flight thing is great
my special does 400 damage per hit
I can just play this like a bad bow
loud coral
Charged Shot and Minotaur Rush is just bow but better 
unreal pasture
Lightning Rod is actually a lot less bad than I thought it was but... like...
bruh, you're leaving cast stones on the ground that could do more than 70/s
true fable
i'd want to try out lightning rod with the dps meter mod to see if it's actually worth for certain builds
unreal pasture
I can't imagine it is... like what build would want it?
You're proccing jolts and stuff... but
honest kernel
I think it works off of Double Strike, Splitting Bolt, Jolted
It's weird in the sense that it's a duo that isn't necessarely a build-around like Merciful End, but an amplifier to an already busted build
unreal pasture
Sure, sure. But the question still remains: Do you really want to be doing this?
It's like guaranteed/consistent damage while you can dash around doing other stuff but like ❓
honest kernel
And otherwise it's decent
steady skiff
Not sure if this counts as a high heat strategy question but... I'm trying to decide between unlocking/maxing Arthur, Guan Yu or Beowulf... hoping to pick the one that most easily helps me get the blood to unlock the other ones
honest kernel
It's kinda on par with Exit Wounds
steady skiff
Any recommendations?
loud coral
Yeah Arthur is the best imo, Beowulf takes a ton of practice to get good
honest kernel
Guan Yu is glass canon incarnate, Beowulf is a bit weird to play around with
loud coral
If you run High Confidence and level 1 Guan Yu then that's 15 health
heady olive
lvl 1 guan yu xd
heady olive
worst part about guan yu is the chaos gates
unreal pasture
attack button go brrrrrrrrr
loud coral
Tried glassiest cannon GY once, 21 health makes it so each hit from Dad eats up one DD
Only ran it on no heat because I'm a coward
heady olive
acorn > dd lol
loud coral
Oh absolutely
unreal pasture
mfw when acorn actually gets you more EHP 😂
loud coral
Acorn was basically an extra 5 DDs
unreal pasture
that's just part of the strats, get to hades with the three DDs and the Ares boon
loud coral
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725021639506526249/776505601055391814/unknown.png Found the build, would be insane to run this on higher heats
true fable
i cant figure out how that build works lol
loud coral
It doesn't
true fable
LOL
loud coral
I had Quick & Massive spin but tried to roll for Charged Skewer
not a good idea
Super fun though, highly recommend even if you maxed out GY
Didn't allow myself to take any health rewards either
unreal pasture
the dream, roll into quick spin massive spin and the increased spin duration on GY
loud coral
Was cheesing Asterius with Quick and Massive spin rofl
formal gust
GGGGGGGGGGG
wraith imp
A moment of silence for all the players who will never know how unreal beowulf + charged flight + dread flight + aphro special + battle rage was before nerf.
/Thanks, Amir.
//Upon reflection, it's still possible to get close to that original combination but requires getting lucky with 2 chaos special boons plus a chimera jerky (special buff) from charon's well.
twilit orbit
im already doing 400+ damage per special with nerfed charged flight
the pre-nerf version would be like 700+ damage I think
wraith imp
yep
My preferred build for beowulf is aphro + poseidon (dash + razor shoals + breaking wave + typhoon's fury) to enable sweet nectar. And then i would use the double poms on aphro special.
My best build ever was doing around 5000 damage to each enemy in groupings of 6 per throw.
I had artemis hide breaker plus hunter's mark. LOL.
north dove
50 heat zag bow vid is up!
dusty flint
Phew massive probs
wraith imp
50 heat zag bow vid is up!
@north dove Link?
north dove
it's in #self-promotion
formal gust
My preferred build for beowulf is aphro + poseidon (dash + razor shoals + breaking wave + typhoon's fury) to enable sweet nectar. And then i would use the double poms on aphro special.
My best build ever was doing around 5000 damage to each enemy in groupings of 6 per throw.
I had artemis hide breaker plus hunter's mark. LOL.
@wraith imp
Dio cast is also big number
wraith imp
Yep!
beowulf is now my top 3 favorite aspect (along with zeus shield and rama aspect) b/c of its versatility. Hammers can transform beowulf quite a bit.
formal gust
Charged flight was basically a guan yu special but but no health penalty and you can block
wraith imp
charged flight is still good. it's just no longer awesome (without chaos special boons).
wraith imp
Question: In benefits package, how much faster does "speeder" make enemies?
I was playing on 41 heat with FO2, and i got a room full of armored chariots with speeder (plus bruiser). And wowzers those things looked like a blur at times when they charged toward me. Thank goodness i had zeus shield to block or i would've been a goner.
So to ask my question differently, assuming someone is playing FO2 how much does speeder benefit add to enemy speed? Is it an additional 20%? 30%?
ripe crane
My only source for that is seeing it said here before, but I would believe that is correct
formal gust
so uhh idk what else I plan to do
true fable
50 heat beo
twilit orbit
im slowly trying to do 32 heat all aspects
which is not particularly impressive by some peoples standards
formal gust
I'm not really interested in doing all aspects
twilit orbit
but its something interesting for me to do
formal gust
would rather just focus on one aspect per weapon
edgy arrow
i tried all aspects 32, but i started with zag sword for some reason and then gave up basically immediately
edgy arrow
i’ll get back to it at some point
edgy arrow
yeah the shields are all pretty manageable
formal gust
for shield that's beowulf, for sword i dunno, bow probably rama or chiron
twilit orbit
well except beowulf because I suck at it
formal gust
rail eris definitely
twilit orbit
but theres always charged flight cheese :^)
edgy arrow
beo is lit
formal gust
ok then demeter lol
tardy path
What we talking aboot? 
twilit orbit
i think im gonna try and get sword and spear out of the way because those are probably going to be the hardest aspects for me to do
twilit orbit
swing sword for big damages
edgy arrow
i believe you cry yes
twilit orbit
arthur is pretty manageable until you get super high I think
that weapon does so much damage
formal gust
for chiron is crit build the best way
twilit orbit
I think artemis is best for chiron
edgy arrow
arty and dio both work on chiron
formal gust
and on rama you want to use special more than normal
twilit orbit
on rama you use dash attacks for most of your damage
look at some of tailesque's runs
edgy arrow
dio might actually be better at the very top (50+) but i’m not really qualified to comment on that
twilit orbit
that man's brain is too big and he is very good at rama
formal gust
rama hasn't quite clicked with m
e
I should like it, but I just can't get the hang of it
edgy arrow
Tail is almost inhuman on rama at this point lol
formal gust
not just in high heat either, speedruns too
twilit orbit
rama is like arthur but its ranged
formal gust
yeah and i'm way worse at it
twilit orbit
both aspects do so much damage at base
edgy arrow
it’s also way more versatile than arthur
twilit orbit
well yeah, because its ranged
edgy arrow
FO and DC hit arthur hard, but they’re manageable with rama
twilit orbit
range is fundamentally really strong in this game
cerulean frigate
range? rama? excuse you
edgy arrow
ranged and has a special basically designed to deal with DC
cerulean frigate
the way to go is to point blank that triple shot
and instantly kill the champions
edgy arrow
*explosive triple
formal gust
I mean I guess I can like aspects but not in a speedrun
look at dash strike arthur
it is an abomination
it's horrible
edgy arrow
for the real melee rama experience
formal gust
but I still like it outside of speedruns
twilit orbit
I just want to get a good sense of how all the aspects play by doing them all at 32
formal gust
if you haven't seen a dash strike arthur build consider yourself lucky
twilit orbit
except the cast aspects they suck
formal gust
it is... mortifying
edgy arrow
the cast aspects don’t suck lol
formal gust
except the cast aspects they suck
ex-hecking-scuse me
cerulean frigate
hera and beowulf are very good
tardy path
True
edgy arrow
even pos is decent
formal gust
achilles and poseidon are good
cerulean frigate
achillies is only lame because it's a spear
cerulean frigate
same deal with posideon
twilit orbit
ill be fine with hera
formal gust
bro what's this dissing on poseidon and achilles about
twilit orbit
since even if you never cast hera is still just base zag bow
cerulean frigate
they're attached to bad weapons but have good bonuses
edgy arrow
they’re good aspects; we just don’t like swords or spears i guess lol
twilit orbit
but poseidon and achilles are going to be annoying
formal gust
I feel personally offended
twilit orbit
because sword and spear
edgy arrow
i actually like them
twilit orbit
beowulf I also had a huge amount of struggles with
formal gust
I feel attacked
twilit orbit
because the aspect is so clunky
edgy arrow
because i don’t have to interact as much with the base weapon mechanics of sword/spear if i use casts
twilit orbit
hey I did 32 heat beowulf
formal gust
it feels really nice
tardy path
Or just yeet it
formal gust
beowulf special builds are somewhat viable
edgy arrow
beo is not clunky lol
formal gust
I love casting with it tho
edgy arrow
same
formal gust
no it's great
edgy arrow
it’s attacks are slow but it clears rooms super fast
formal gust
I just did 45 heat with it without much of a struggle
tardy path
Remember when people thought charged flight on beo was not broken?
edgy arrow
oh nice
tardy path
Funny times
twilit orbit
I'm really not suited to the beowulf playstyle
formal gust
it’s attacks are slow but it clears rooms super fast
@edgy arrow clears rooms fast? it's a boss melter
edgy arrow
both
formal gust
in other words, it's really good
twilit orbit
I barely use bull rush on shield because I find it too slow and clunky to use
formal gust
you get into a rhythm
ember cobalt
I take it you don't like the bow, then?
formal gust
beowulf doesn't need range, you can just play safe with rushes
twilit orbit
beowulf was like my least favorite weapon I've played so far because its both melee and really slow to do anything
cerulean frigate
bewulf is what makes shield playable without feeling like a total bore to me
twilit orbit
arthur is better for me because most of its attacks can be dash canceled
formal gust
charged flight is viable now, not sure about high heat
edgy arrow
beo is barely melee tbh
twilit orbit
I mean I did 32 heat charged flight and it felt really easy
formal gust
are you using stygian beo
twilit orbit
and I am certainly not a great player
edgy arrow
it does melee so differently to other weapons it’s like it’s own category
formal gust
or infernal beo
twilit orbit
I was using stygian
formal gust
dionysus casts stygian feels great
formal gust
you do the dash strike rush combo while the casts are reloading
cerulean frigate
unless you use trippy flare sygian is pretty awkward on beo
twilit orbit
I just dont use bull rush at all
cerulean frigate
infernal gives you much better burst and the stones end up in a neat stack
twilit orbit
and play shield like a sword that has a ranged special
formal gust
I much prefer stygian, higher ceiling in power
and more fun
you still need to pick them up
stygian has amazing burst wdym
is a few thousand damage not good burst?
twilit orbit
I have a lot of fun with zeus aspect, it feels really powerful
its definitely my shield of choice
but I forced myself to do 32 with the other shield aspects once
zeus aspect is cool because you press a lot of buttons and it feels more like a traditional melee weapon
formal gust
if you want a traditional melee weapon use zag shield
edgy arrow
stygian beo has a higher power ceiling, infernal beo has a higher power floor
wraith imp
50%
@ripe crane
90% total if using FO2
@ripe crane
LOLWATBBQ
Excuse Me?
U serious?
twilit orbit
you simultaneously hit them with attacks and special spins to stunlock
and do a ton of damage
zag shield is just slow
edgy arrow
i prefer infernal for high heat because of AP, but both work
twilit orbit
since its lower damage than zeus
twilit orbit
I mostly use stygian soul for my runs, though I basically never do cast builds
edgy arrow
oh no, subjectivity
formal gust
counter counterpoint: you are wrong and i am right
formal gust
got em
twilit orbit
stygian is nice because most of the time I just throw out cast for extra dps vs beefy bois
and with stygian I always have that one cast available when I need it and I never have to worry about chasing down rocks that are halfway across an ocean of lava
wraith imp
Speeder bp adds 50% speed to enemies?
If I wanted to fool around with such absurdly fast enemies, i'd just play hollow knight at 200% speed.
Dafuq is going on?
formal gust
in any case, they are both viable
edgy arrow
lol is playing HK at 200% a thing
twilit orbit
yeah I think they're both good and its mostly a playstyle thing
you can use either one on any aspect and have it be fine imo
wraith imp
lol i’d playing HK at 200% a thing
@edgy arrow
"They called me a madman."
formal gust
if it weren't so easy to reset in high heat runs maybe I would consider infrnal
wraith imp
@edgy arrow
A select few masochistic psychos have actually done it.
formal gust
btw who else just forgets that beowulf makes you take more damage
edgy arrow
omg i gotta look this up
formal gust
it's such a non-factor
edgy arrow
sounds inspiring
edgy arrow
btw who else just forgets that beowulf makes you take more damage
@formal gust so much this
wraith imp
it's such a non-factor
@formal gust
yep...maim is more of a problem. adds 50% damage to you for 4 seconds.
that can be super risky against bosses
formal gust
10%?
edgy arrow
every now and then i see someone saying “yeah beo is a glass cannon” and i’m like, um
no
wraith imp
what is a glass cannon? i hadn't encountered that term until i joined this board.
formal gust
it means very strong but frail
edgy arrow
^
formal gust
like nemesis
cinder cave
it refers to in RTS games
formal gust
guan yu for example actually ruins your survivability
heady olive
10% dmg is nothing if u have HL5
cinder cave
there tend to be long range high damage weapons
that also die the moment they get shot
hence glass cannon
formal gust
beowulf is not a glass cannon
true fable
nem is a glass cannon i feel
formal gust
I thought glass cannon the term was a round way longer than that
true fable
mostly glass if you dont get double edge
edgy arrow
it is literally safer than half the other weapons, simply by dint of being a shield
twilit orbit
wait how is nemesis a glass cannon?
true fable
melee
twilit orbit
its not inherently worse than any other sword
formal gust
you have to be melee
wraith imp
@edgy arrow
I tried to find the youtube video of the guy who fought hollow knight (not radiance) at 200%. didn't see it. will try again later.
formal gust
zag sword is just glass
formal gust
arthur has some range to it
twilit orbit
yes arthur is a glass cannon :^)
edgy arrow
i can’t even beat radiance at regular speed lol
cedar thistle
tempered glass at least 😉
formal gust
if you are good at spacing arthur has decent range
twilit orbit
nemesis isn't more unsafe than the other regular sword aspects imo
formal gust
on poseidon you are standing back