h1-high-heat-strategies

[cinder cave]

if you can TD3 anyway

[true fable]

true i should probably just be doing HL when i run TD3

[cinder cave]

it's free heat

[true fable]

instead of JS

[cinder cave]

the fact that TD scales with heat

[true fable]

but getting hit for like 20 is pain

[cinder cave]

is great to work towards

i think JS CP tho just flies in the face of TD3

so i guess it's how aggressive can you play without dying

(twice)

[bronze viper]

SD is a lot less expensive than the 3rd DD, but you need Mama Nyx to unlock it I guess.

[cinder cave]

yah i mean

i see no reason to buy DD anymore

I'm used to SD from climbing heat now

i can SD to farm my hell mode

just need to prioritise damage otherwise

i felt like i was playing quite aggressive with my cursed slash build

but it still took me 37 mins to kill heroes

[bronze viper]

The thing I am disliking the most is the game telling me I need to do 20 more runs of Stygius

Rude.

[cinder cave]

i like stygius but

mostly poseidon

can that be counted as liking sword?

[true fable]

that is liking athena cast i think

[cinder cave]

seems like people like athena cast quite a lot?

i don't use it much rn

been mostly using arty cast with poseidon

[true fable]

i like it a ton on high heat

[cinder cave]

i guess it's a nice balance of safety

and damage

and area control

[true fable]

yeah

ez accesss to parting shot too

[cinder cave]

its damage is its downside tbf

so uh

sorry if this is dumb

does parting shot just always apply

the backstab bonuses

or do you need to shoot the cast at their back

[true fable]

i think

[cinder cave]

cuz people rave about parting shot and like

[true fable]

it gives a base +35%, and then when you backstab them with your cast

it will do that backstab damage

[cinder cave]

at the heat i've been at i haven't noticed it

oh

It ALWAYS gives +35&?

%

[true fable]

wait

i think +25%

idk it's very unclear

[cinder cave]

parting shot is 25

but

i'm unsure if i need to backstab or not

obviously the multiplicative thing is strong but conditionality matters right

[true fable]

yeah

these are good questions

i think my info above was wrong btw so just disregard

[bronze viper]

Is backstab multiplicative?

[cinder cave]

I'm sure some of the other resident sleepers

will weigh in

I do appreciate your input tho @true fable

[bronze viper]

I'm pretty sure it's additive

[cinder cave]

honestly i'm still at a point where i'm

just trying to learn the challenges of the game

so i'm ready to go high heat

and this is a nice place to steal all your ideas muahahaha

[true fable]

backstab should be additive

[bronze viper]

Also, re: Parting Shot, the general answer is ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[true fable]

stupid stuff still happens with exposed rn though

i dont think they patched that yet

[cinder cave]

?

[true fable]

exposed is adding +100% to backstab damage on top of the tooltip for each pom level

[cinder cave]

that's not good maths

[true fable]

not good maths no

[cinder cave]

simmering fury...

[true fable]

i think the same confusion around parting shot happened last time it was brought up and i dont think we got a definitive answer

[cinder cave]

i'm sure someone

will mathematically definitively

nail that down at some point

[honest kernel]

That moment when you doze off for a bit and see 1K+ messages

[bronze viper]

double checks to see if I'm in builds-and-combat Nope.

[ripe crane]

Game has been out for a month, all players have reached the point of high heat grinding

[bronze viper]

Hype

[true fable]

who verifies high heat runs

i dont have a computer that can record so it doesn't really matter to me

just curious

in case i happen to break beo 40 in the near future

[ripe crane]

Wriste and Krashercorr

Though they have not responded to me for a while

Almost like they have other things to do than watch me play a video game 😠

[true fable]

im sure they're getting a lot of submissions for 32 right now

how dare they

[bronze viper]

Wriste and Krasher handle the heat completion list, which floors at 40.

[true fable]

ah i see

[bronze viper]

Wriste, bablo, Vorime, Jerds, maybe others now handle the speedrun.com submissions

[ripe crane]

O I should check that

[honest kernel]

Add teddyras, Dunnk0 and whoevever "SatanIsAChillGuy" to what ledger said, and he's right

[ripe crane]

Darn. DQ'd. Not gonna bother contesting it, will just have to submit my slower one 😢

[true fable]

your 50?

[bronze viper]

Really? Message them about a time penalty, that's such garbage

It's not like you were doing it to speed run lol

[true fable]

they won't add it to the completion list?

or speedrun.com?

[bronze viper]

Speedrun.com

[honest kernel]

They have a category specifically for 50 heat so yeah

[bronze viper]

I assume it's because of the Codex pause thing.

[ripe crane]

I guess I could ask, I don't want to be a nuisance

[honest kernel]

Alongisde one for 32 heat and whatever else

[ripe crane]

Ya it is because of that

[bronze viper]

Sorry 😦

[honest kernel]

Oof

[true fable]

thats so annoying

[bronze viper]

You're the 7th person to have ever completed 50 heat, it's not exactly a hotly contested speed running category

[gaunt fiber]

I guess I could ask, I don't want to be a nuisance
@ripe crane It's ok to be a nuisance sometimes

[true fable]

it probably still counts for spreadsheet though right

[bronze viper]

Yeah our list is heat completion

Time irrelevant

[honest kernel]

As far as I'm aware, it shouldn't for the sheet yeah

It was just a rule added for speedrun.com

[bronze viper]

I argued with Wriste for a while about getting heat completion syndicated on speedrun.com but he was concerned about the longevity of that considering that Heat is a more discrete measurement, versus time

[true fable]

i dont understand why they can't just asterisk it for high heat

if you codex

i get it for speed

because that was disgusting

[bronze viper]

I don't think the future possibility of people completing closer to max heat makes those accomplishments less worth of recognition in the present though.

[true fable]

no i get that

[gaunt fiber]

Agreed

[ripe crane]

I will message the reviewer about a time penalty of some sort. I imagine it won't happen and can submit my other, but it is kind of dumb for 50 heat imo

But, the rule is there and I broke the rule despite knowing about it, so I'm not gonna complain if they say no

[bronze viper]

Lesson learned: Don't listen to me

At least you have a backup, I'd feel so bad if I got your only one dq'd

[honest kernel]

Time to unbind my codex key bind

[ripe crane]

I was totally joking when I blamed you btw. I knew before I opened it that I shouldn't have. I have this knack for sensing things that I know I'll regret for the next several days, but I do them anyway.

[oblique crane]

question from a 20-heat-only lurker attempting 32 soon; how come artemis is preferred over aphrodite for big-attack aspects like rama and hestia? their average damage is pretty similar, right? is it just that the damage increase from clean kill/hunter's mark/heart rend/etc. is more impactful than the survivability from weak?

or is that preference actually not widespread and i'm extrapolating from what 2-3 people prefer

[true fable]

i can only speak for myself but i like artemis because each secondary boon can help out a lot in terms of damage scaling down the line

heart rend is also extremely good

[honest kernel]

^

[true fable]

duo synergy in general boosts artemis attacks very high

[honest kernel]

Not to mention she scales better with damage boosts because of how crits work

Stuff like Urge to Kill from Ares and Billowing Strength from Zeus work better for Artemis than they do for Aphrodite

Aphrodite has like one boon that boosts her damage, and like one boon for her cast specifically

Outside of duos

Not saying she's weak (pun intended) or anything, in fact she's close or better than artemis depending on weapon choice for the most part

[daring hedge]

with rama specifically, artemis is several times over going to be doing more damage with the hammers you go for anyway, which multiply your shots

two or three chances to crit with every shot or power shot is huge

[oblique crane]

oh, with twin/triple shot

[daring hedge]

and rama's big base damage means that crits themselves are also going to be huge

heartbreak strike is fine all the way through asphodel, but at high heat, i find it lacking compared to deadly strike around elysium onward

of course, though, that's a minmax-y high heat or speedrun perspective. heartbreak strike, in general, is still great on rama

[bronze viper]

Yeah, shared suffering gives you pseudo extra crit chance.

[honest kernel]

You can blame that on most stuff in this game being additive rather than multiplicative. Artemis' crits being multiplicative means she can and often will outscale Aphrodite

[bronze viper]

But as a heuristic Artemis and Aphro are pretty similar.

[honest kernel]

^

Both are the gods you look out for as far as big damage goes

[cinder cave]

Aphrodite's value is quite frontloadedand Aty requires a lot of boon/

but I can see what you're saying they fill the same dps role

[oblique crane]

cool, thanks for all the info

[cinder cave]

ywq

[oblique crane]

by pseudo extra crit, you mean that if you crit an attack, the shared suffering goes off of that crit damage, right? not that shared suffering damage can itself crit independently?

[twilit orbit]

I just want to point out that mathematically without other percent scaling, aphrodite has higher dps than artemis

[daring hedge]

yes cali

[twilit orbit]

but on aspects that come with damage bonuses artemis is better because the crit amplifies the damage bonus as well

also picking up percent scaling from somewhere else makes artemis better

[bronze viper]

by pseudo extra crit, you mean that if you crit an attack, the shared suffering goes off of that crit damage, right? not that shared suffering damage can itself crit independently?
@oblique crane Crit calculates on hit, not on attack. If you hit 2 Suffering targets, they each check for a crit

[twilit orbit]

can rama double crit?

[true fable]

is it reasonable to pick up hide breaker for asphodel over something like clean kill or hunter's mark

or not asphodel

[twilit orbit]

say your base damage is 100 and you have a second enemy marked with shared suffering

[true fable]

for elysium

[twilit orbit]

you crit the first enemy for 300, and the second enemy takes 300*0.6

can that 300*0.6 damage crit again?

which means the second enemy would effectively take more damage than the first

[true fable]

you also hit the first enemy for 300*0.6 as well if you tagged them with shared suffering i think

[twilit orbit]

just wondering whether rama crit can apply twice due to how shared suffering works

[daring hedge]

can that 300*0.6 damage crit again?
@twilit orbit shared suffering damage itself cannot crit

[twilit orbit]

ah so shared suffering is just a damage multiplier on top of existing crits

[daring hedge]

yeah, so it benefits greatly from the original attack being a crit, but it can't crit

[twilit orbit]

wait then why does rama do so well with crits? if shared suffering doesnt scale with crits then aphro would still have higher dps on the aspect

unless you get a second boon that boosted your attack damage

[daring hedge]

? shared suffering takes 0.6x of the crit damage of the original attack

[bronze viper]

It smooths out the curve for crits since you get more opportunities to do so.

[true fable]

they still take 60% of the damage if the original hit is a crit

[twilit orbit]

yes, but shared suffering is a multiplier applied at the very end

so you can ignore it for both artemis and aphrodite

[true fable]

the crits are more distributed among the greater enemy health pool? is that it?

[bronze viper]

Artemis also easily out scales Aphro with additive damage, and there are a lot of additive bow hammers

[twilit orbit]

because whichever god has higher dps before shared suffering is applied will still have higher dps afterwards

are there a lot of additive bow hammers?

triple shot and twin shot are multiplicative

[daring hedge]

perfect shot, point blank

sniper lol

[bronze viper]

Perfect, point blank, explosive

[twilit orbit]

ah thats fair

I can concede that with an additive bow hammer then artemis is better

[daring hedge]

even multiplicative hammers are just better in favor of artemis though

[bronze viper]

Smooths out the expected crit curve.

[twilit orbit]

multiplicative hammers dont change the dps math between artemis and aphrodite

[daring hedge]

you have striaght up more chances to crit at once

[twilit orbit]

things that give multiple hits decreases variance

which is technically a good thing

but it doesnt impact average dps

[true fable]

Smooths out the expected crit curve.
@bronze viper can you explain this for my pea sized brain

[bronze viper]

If you attack 1 time a second and have a 10 percent chance to crit, that's 1 crit every 10 seconds. For enemies that die in less than 10 seconds, that's not ideal. The more times you can crit in that space, it doesn't increase your damage, but it does decrease the variance of your damage

[twilit orbit]

more hits decreases variance

say hypothetically crits are x2 effective and work 50% of the time

if you have one hit for 10 damage, then 50% of the time you hit for 10 damage and 50% of the time you hit for 20 damage

if instead you hit twice for 5 damage each, then you would have 25% chance of dealing 10 damage, 50% chance of dealing 15 damage, and 25% chance of dealing 20 damage

in both cases your average damage is 15

but in the second case you more reliably hit the average damage and less reliably hit on both the very high and very low ends of the spectrum

so basically twin shot being two hits increases consistency

[true fable]

ok makes sense ty

[twilit orbit]

over it being one big hit

[daring hedge]

i think it's fair to say that at baseline of common rarity with say, rama, 20% additive versus 50% additive on deadly versus heartbreak is extremely minimal while the 15% chance to crit at all and scale with hammers for deadly is massive

[bronze viper]

It also helps that Rama has exponential scaling if you fire into groups. There are very few instances of crits double+ dipping in this game.

None else that come to mind

[twilit orbit]

thats what im wondering, whether rama can double dip crits

by amplifying crit damage a second time

if it does then crit is always the better choice

[bronze viper]

No

[twilit orbit]

but if it cant then mathematically heartbreak strike should be better until you pick up a second source of scaling

[daring hedge]

i mean, shared suffering by nature is boosted by original attacks critting, i'm not sure what you mean by amplifying it a second time

[bronze viper]

That's not what I mean by double dipping. I mean that if you hit 2 targets and both crit, the 3x multiplier is applied to the 1.6x multiplier twice, which is then applied twice

[twilit orbit]

but my point is that shared suffering is a multiplicative damage increase
so it never changes the math between deadly strike and heartbreak strike

whichever one has higher dps before shared suffering is applied still has higher dps after it is applied

something like twin shot behaves the same way

its also a multiplicative damage increase, so it doesnt change the math between which attack is better

[bronze viper]

You're right in that sense. Additive damage is the only things that changes it.

[daring hedge]

heartbreak is pretty reliant on rarity or poms pumped into a common, while deadly strike even at common is all you need along with hammers which you will inevitably get across the run

[bronze viper]

But the comparison between Heartbreak and Deadly assumes 1 target is hit, once.

[daring hedge]

poms and a good rarity are not inevitable

[bronze viper]

Rarity is a good point. Common deadly strike is great.

Common Heartbreak Strike is... well named.

[twilit orbit]

hitting multiple targets with shared suffering doesnt change the comparison either
lets say you hit two targets that are both marked with shared suffering

your expected damage to a single target is E
your final damage in the above scenario to each target is 2.2E with shared suffering applied

its still multiplicative

though I do recall common heartbreak strike being lower dps than common deadly strike

[daring hedge]

yes, missing out on 15% crit in exchange for 30% additive is a bad deal indeed

[twilit orbit]

either way its fairly close but heartbreak scales better with poms and deadly scales much better with other things you can pick up in the run

it depends on how reliably you pick up the other things though, I dont really run with the aspect so I can't say for sure how frequently additive damage is taken

[daring hedge]

with the way bow's hammer exclusivity works out, you will typically (ideally) have a multiplicative and an additive hammer together

in which case it's just easily in favor of artemis still

[twilit orbit]

yeah that would probably do it

[bronze viper]

It's pretty much every run.

[twilit orbit]

even picking up urge to kill would tilt the math

you really just need additive damage somewhere else in your build for deadly strike to be better

[bronze viper]

I wish Battle Rage worked out better on Rama lol.

[daring hedge]

deadly is pretty much guaranteed to be in the lead where it counts by the later end of a run, when it really matters, while heartbreak is fine to pick up off the bat and falls off later

[bronze viper]

Do you remember when Shared Suffering was a 12 second debuff? Pepperidge Farm remembers

(it was also 80%)

Weapon is way better now though lol, power shot is usable.

[daring hedge]

blessed

[ripe crane]

I wonder if it's possible to push these zag fists higher. Really all I need to do is turn on RI2 and get extremely lucky eventually. Which seems more like just a lot of time commitment. Not sure if worth.

Definitely not actually but I'm not sure what else I want to do. Maybe I should take a lil break so I don't get burnt out

[honest kernel]

Honestly, prioritizing your health should be the main focus here

This heat business' legit hard work

[left jackal]

what is RI2 again?

oh routine inspection

im planning on doing up to heat 32 not sure after, less combinations work after and need luck? and no bounties

but thats ok

[ripe crane]

Y'all ever play a perfect phase 2 then die immediately in phase 3

[honest kernel]

^ me whenever I dash into multiple urns phase 3

Doesn't happen as much nowadays, still sucks LOL

[bronze viper]

To something stupid, usually. Like, whiff Urn 3 times, get annoyed, face tank Skull wave.

"No, I do not want to apply Shared Suffering on this Skull for the 3rd time thank you"

[ripe crane]

This wasn't even anything stupid. Just two regular attacks and I was deleted

[sly remnant]

or dodge one skull wave, dodge a second skull wave back into the first skull wave

[ripe crane]

I had time left too, could've just been a little more patient and probably been fine. I'll learn that eventually

[ripe crane]

Wonder if it's possible that I should trade EM4 for RI2. That sounds like blasphemy but dad is rude. Theoretically my increase in power should be more than his right?

[bronze viper]

RI2 is a lot easier than EM4

At the heat you're presumably playing at

[ripe crane]

But you get so many boons

And other things!

[bronze viper]

Lol, I'm not arguing fun.

RI2 sucks in that regard

[ripe crane]

Idk i feel like I can deal with EM4 if I had just been a bit luckier with defensive stuff. Though I didn't have Patty or an extra DD I did have Athena call and still didn't get there. Maybe you're right :(

But, I'm playing Dem fists and ME is so much stronger than Zeus build, and that isn't going to happen without RI

[bronze viper]

Whoah, didn't know you're on Malphon lol. Definitely RI2 then

EM4 is so brutal on melee

[mossy zinc]

Only relevant factor in the Deadly Strike vs Heartbreak Strike debate for DPS is hits to kill. E.g., if Heartbreak Strike needs 3 hits to kill and Deadly Strike needs 3 hits or 1 crit to kill, then Deadly Strike obviously wins.

Theoretical DPS on an enemy with infinite HP only really matters for bosses—and only really for bosses 3 and 4. You need to correct for overkill damage against regular mobs.

[ripe crane]

EM4 is brutal on melee, but I think less so on fists because you're more mobile. Had no extra dashes either, that is almost necessary.

[north dove]

damn, I was so close to a win but got bursted down instantly from an offscreen laser attack in phase 3 😦

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/599449585710006288/774137359201337354/unknown.png probably would have had it if I took acorn instead of spearpoint but I forgot I had holy shield so I just went on autopilot during trinket choice

[proper hamlet]

d

[ripe crane]

Ouchy. Hades is mean tonight :(

[north dove]

Very, are you still doing Zag fist runs?

[ripe crane]

51 Dem tonight. Had one loss at P3 Hades, and I just lost a great run to Theseus while panicking about time. It was EM so a 2 sack would've gotten me there I think

[north dove]

Ah, melee definitely isn't an easy task haha

good luck

[ripe crane]

Er wait I mean it wasn't EM lol

You as well!

[true fable]

crepes do you have a link to your zag 47 run

[north dove]

Thanks, I'll have to resume tomorrow because my eyeballs are dying from staring at the screen for so long

[ripe crane]

Right now I'm trying everything maxed except no RI and EM3. Time is an issue

I should be asleep but, you know, just one more run

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/791519993 @true fable I tried for 51 tonight and actually had a couple really good starts but this weapon is sooo slow

[true fable]

F

[rancid stirrup]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/583880464784424960/774210537189146624/Hades_6.png
how's this setup for h32?
i tried running FO2 but... heroes told me to go back to the house

[edgy arrow]

are you running SD or DD?

also there are much easier things to deal with than EM4 at 32

HS is probably personal preference, but be aware that it makes Hades' urns deal 150 damage, so sure footing becomes S tier when you're running it

[rancid stirrup]

i ran DD

[edgy arrow]

in that case i'd probably drop the LC

[rancid stirrup]

to 1 and take JS?

how bad is benefits package 2?

[edgy arrow]

honestly you could drop it altogether imo

BP2 isn't the worst imo, unless you get a really bad combo

I'd take BP2, CF2, HL2 and maybe JS1 and drop the EM4 and LC

[rancid stirrup]

right HL2 is 10% difference from LC2
how am I so bad at math

[edgy arrow]

hey anyone know if a room being elite or not effects gold drops?

don't think i've ever paid enough attention to notice

[cerulean frigate]

i have drunken flourish on dem fists. how did i get here

it's ok though i have splitting bolt lightning strike and more flat damage from ares

[gaunt fiber]

[true fable]

elite i'm not sure but i know the styx miniboss tunnels definitely doubles gold drops

[mossy zinc]

Obol drops depend on enemy difficulty.

[edgy arrow]

cool thanks

[cinder cave]

right HL2 is 10% difference from LC2
how am I so bad at math :eld:
@rancid stirrup it’s legit tricky. Btw HL2 is 140% taken which means your ehp is 100/140= 5/7th, meaning 29% reduction in EHP

The reason LC is more palatable is because stubborn defiance exists

So people just take LC4

As free heat

Basically the 10% difference part doesn’t make sense because

One is hp regen and one is minus EHp

[ripe crane]

Before I maxed LC, I still found taking it preferable to HL because it didn't make boss fights harder. Healing matters a lot less if you're losing multiple or all DDs to the heroes/dad

[sly remnant]

I like HL tho because i feel it makes me better at the game then LC does

[gaunt fiber]

Well

TD3 instead of JS/CP really makes a difference, I can save a lot of time

I have to get better at the furies fight tho

[true fable]

if i take an erebus to avoid a god i dont want in my pool

and purposely fail the trial to not get that god either

does that god end up in my pool

[ripe crane]

I don't think so

[cerulean frigate]

Ares, Dio and Demeter in Tartarus are inescapable inevitabilities. Especially if you don't want flat damage boons.

And have LC4

[white magnet]

Does 32 heat even count as high heat??

[mossy zinc]

Yeah!

[white magnet]

Okay

[mossy zinc]

Most people who ask for help with 32 come here for that.

[white magnet]

https://prnt.sc/ves6tl

[mossy zinc]

I see.

#1: take off RI.

[white magnet]

https://prnt.sc/ves75j

Rl??

[mossy zinc]

Routine Inspection.

You'll 100% want Dark Foresight. And RI1 disables that.

[white magnet]

Okay

Oh, why's that?

[cinder cave]

It adds 20% chance to make rooms gold

[white magnet]

Wait, does that increase chance to find boon?

[cinder cave]

which are in run benefits

as opposed to blue

which makes your runs so much stronger

getting more rooms with in run benefits is huge

[edgy arrow]

HL4 is a lot of HL for 32

[cinder cave]

since it's a race to get strong before the end

Basically a principle of this sort of game

is value added per room

and Dark Foresight massively buffs that

[mossy zinc]

Yeah, way higher chance to find boons, Centaur Hearts, Poms, . . .

[white magnet]

HL4??

I didn't know it increased chance to find boon o_o''

[mossy zinc]

There's a pin for all pact acronyms.

[cinder cave]

You can see the abbreviations in pinned messages here

[mossy zinc]

HL = Hard Labor, etc.

They're all just initialisms.

TD = Tight Deadline.

And so on.

[cinder cave]

Well it's not just boons. It includes Obols as well

Hammers

[white magnet]

I do know a few of them. But not always easy to remember it all 😅

[cinder cave]

basically anything that makes you stronger for this run

[mossy zinc]

Which is usually your best aspect? And what aspects do you have maxed out?

[white magnet]

I, uhh

I think I got every Zag aspect maxed... I got Chiron, GY, and Demeter

I think that's it, so far

And a few aspects unlocked, but not maxed

[mossy zinc]

I'd recommend Chiron then.

Unless you just don't like it.

[white magnet]

With Dionysus?

[mossy zinc]

Yeah.

Turn on Privileged Status in your mirror.

[white magnet]

I do. And it's probably more safe. But it's lower dmg, isn't it?

[mossy zinc]

Go for Drunken Flourish in Tartarus and try to get Heartbreak Strike or Deadly Strike asap.

[white magnet]

Uhh, I can't upgrade it any further

It's only at 20%

[mossy zinc]

Do you have Persuasion?

Oh, I guess your mirror isn't maxed out. That makes things harder for sure.

[white magnet]

I just maxed the stuff I thought was useful. I guess I should've come here first...

[cinder cave]

Deadly Strike/Drunken Flourish is a build? Huh guess Arty really is that good

what's your total darkness?

[mossy zinc]

Can you use a key to get your Darkness back from the other mirror side and just put it into what you need?

[cinder cave]

maybe just use a key

keys are so damn cheap

[white magnet]

Don't I get darkness from everything, though?

[mossy zinc]

Well, yeah. But you just have to put it back into the talents you want to use.

I used to do that all the time until I eventually maxed both sides.

[cinder cave]

keys are a very low investment

and if you're using the darkness weapon the gemstone cost basically pays for itself

to reassign every run

[white magnet]

Done

[cinder cave]

nice nice

[white magnet]

Should I use God's Pride??

[mossy zinc]

Legacy.

[white magnet]

Okay

And Fated Persuasion is fine?

Oh, right. I also have Rama maxed

[mossy zinc]

Yeah, Persuasion is great.

Couldn't help you as much with Rama as I can with Chiron. I think Chiron is easier to play, anyway.

Rama has probably higher potential, but learning to actually get away with power shots on that takes some real practice.

[white magnet]

Hm, might be. What about heat? And would it be stupid to try go for 40? xP

[mossy zinc]

I'd just go for 32 for now lol.

[cinder cave]

one step at a time eh? :P

Think it's pretty safe to say that Rama has higher potential than Chiron

[white magnet]

I did turn off RI... but now I need two more heat :c

[cinder cave]

Chiron just doesn't hit as hard

[mossy zinc]

I did a 40 Heat with Chiron the other day that you could watch if you're still eating or whatever to get some ideas for how to play. https://www.twitch.tv/videos/790570126?t=0h5m51s

[cinder cave]

"Casual" high heat

[mossy zinc]

I'll look at pacts in a sec, just let me turn on the game.

[cinder cave]

no wonder you were intimidating all the casuals

[mossy zinc]

[white magnet]

Sure

[mossy zinc]

I had like 40 minutes to do a quick run before school lol.

[white magnet]

Brb, gotta put away the plate

[mossy zinc]

I imagine you don't feel comfortable about taking LC4 and Stubborn Defiance?

I know I avoided that one like the plague for the longest time lol.

[cinder cave]

and that helps the casuals feel good about themselves, how? ;)

it's the same heat as EM4 so

I call that value

[mossy zinc]

(It helps me feel good above the casuals. 👸🏽)

[cinder cave]

yikes

[loud coral]

Should I ditch TD3 and put the 3 points into HL and JS? I feel like even with really good builds it’s still not enough to get past Elysium or Styx in time

[mossy zinc]

Ditch TD3 for what? I need context lol.

[loud coral]

Running 40 heat, so it’s either TD3, HL1, and JS1, or TD2, JS3, and HL2

[mossy zinc]

@cinder cave what? It's my only road to happiness.

What aspect?

Well, I always turn on TD3 personally.

But if you're timing out, just turn it off.

[loud coral]

Achilles, though I’ve been considering Hades for a bit

[mossy zinc]

Or turn off EM4 or whatever is timing you out.

[white magnet]

Back

[loud coral]

It’s more just general slowness, I’ll probably try out TD2 but if it doesn’t work I’ll go back to TD3

[mossy zinc]

Why don't you just do TD3 HL2? That point in JS1 seems unnecessary.

[loud coral]

[mossy zinc]

Honestly, I just do either HL0 or HL5, personally.

[loud coral]

I did not think about that lmao

[cinder cave]

@cinder cave what? It's my only road to happiness.
@mossy zinc A good life in service to Bouldy is the road to happiness

[white magnet]

The problem with Stubborn Defiance is: I usually lose 2-3 DDs to beat the final boss...

[loud coral]

Welp off to losing god runs again

[mossy zinc]

I have to prove to Lady Aphrodite that I'm the bestest.

Oh, okay. Yeah, then you'll probably want Stubborn Defiance.

[cinder cave]

Deep pockets> Golden touch for 32?

[mossy zinc]

I usually lose 2-3 DDs to beat the final boss...
Is that with or without HL? FO?

@cinder cave yes.

[cinder cave]

Thank you

[loud coral]

Golden Touch is better if you don’t tend to shop that much early on, otherwise take Deep Pockets

[white magnet]

I've managed to beat EM4 with no other, two times, without losing DD, but I was really close to lose one

But I tend to lose 1-2 with just regular EM4.

[loud coral]

Cool exploit: If you burn an SD before grabbing an SD boon from Athena you get extra DDs

So it’s basically 1 SD and 2 DDs if you’re lucky

[cinder cave]

Is that an exploit or a feature

[loud coral]

Yes

[white magnet]

I know. But it won't do me much when I lost 3 DDs against the first round yesterday...

[cinder cave]

Tbf I think that's why EM4 is passed a lot of the time

[mossy zinc]

https://imgur.com/a/WvGsJ8G

[cinder cave]

it's not time efficient

makes TD3 hard

[mossy zinc]

@white magnet maybe try this? See how that goes, and then we'll take it from there.

[white magnet]

I can't beat FO :c

[loud coral]

Hyper Sprint or Greatest Reflex help a ton for FO2, especially with Asterius

[white magnet]

I think... I'm not sure if I ever tried with Chiron 🤔

[mossy zinc]

You'll have Chiron. I think you can do better than you expect.

Might take some practice, but you could just do a couple runs and see how it goes.

[loud coral]

If you have a good special boon you can at least make it to Elysium with not too many issues

[true fable]

chiron can probably handle dc pretty well though right?

[white magnet]

Also, I usually hit magna 😐

[loud coral]

Chiron’s really good for DC yeah

[true fable]

also anyone want to make suggestions for this 32 heat speedrun setup

https://imgur.com/aWniUj8

RI1 is the only one im iffy on

[mossy zinc]

@white magnet maybe turn off Heightened Security and put 1 point in Lasting Consequences then.

[true fable]

might just turn it into CF2? not sure how the math works out overall

[mossy zinc]

CF2 over RI1.

[true fable]

👍

[upper edge]

RI1 is the only one im iffy on
@true fable I'd turn on DC all teh way before touching RI

[white magnet]

Ugh... I don't like having to sell a boon 😖

[mossy zinc]

The math is everyone takes CF2 on high heat and no one takes RI1 lol.

[true fable]

DC slowed me down a lot more than i expected last time i did it

i'm just gonna do CF2

[loud coral]

I didn’t even touch RI until 40 heat tbh

[daring hedge]

for my 32 speedrun i took BP2 and HS

[mossy zinc]

@white magnet it's okay! You'll only really need your Attack, Special, and hopefully Divine Dash or Hunter Dash.

[white magnet]

Wait, I'm not supposed to take CF2???

[upper edge]

It does require altering your strategy, but RI is such a power hit, I'm frightened of it

[mossy zinc]

CF2 is fine.

[loud coral]

I take CF2 ton, you’re just gonna have to spend a bit less is all

[white magnet]

Oh, nvm. Was looking at the wrong picture 😂

[loud coral]

RI1 isn’t that bad, RI2 is where things get iffy

[true fable]

tailesque i am scared of lava

[mossy zinc]

@daring hedge I was thinking of BP2 because most BP elites don't die any slower than regular elites.

[loud coral]

You can still reroll with RI1 if you get dice via keys

[true fable]

i just dont like the bruisers

[mossy zinc]

RI2 doesn't matter tbh.

RI1 is what hurts.

If you take RI1, might as well take RI2.

[true fable]

i dont think i turned on HS at 40 heat lol

[daring hedge]

@mossy zinc yeah, the only issues that arise are bruisers, but it's not a huge deal

[white magnet]

I should go for Dio/Aphro duo, right?

[mossy zinc]

Ideally, yeah.

But if you get Deadly Strike instead, that's also really good.

[upper edge]

i dont think i turned on HS at 40 heat lol
@true fable Just take Epic Sure Footing 4Head

[loud coral]

Yeah, basically 60% more hangover damage when you’re using your special a ton

[white magnet]

Well, might actually be easier with this boon boost-thing

[mossy zinc]

Just whichever one you see first out of those two, I would take.

[true fable]

yeah dark foresight is really good

[mossy zinc]

Don't wanna get too picky.

[true fable]

in my head the only two boons i needed were tidal dash and lightning strike but that is obviously not true

[white magnet]

I think that's the duo most effective, in terms of the mirror setup you recommened

[mossy zinc]

@true fable you're right. You didn't need Tidal Dash.

[white magnet]

Because of the double curse effect I gotta apply

[daring hedge]

amir would be proud; he's of the persuasion that HS should be turned off for most because it's just 1 heat

[true fable]

[loud coral]

Just hope you get Sure Footing, otherwise it's 150 damage per Dad urn you accidentally step on

I'd swap it with DC1 but it's actually insane how much easier DC0 can be sometimes

[white magnet]

Me?

[daring hedge]

or be like me and pick deathless stand over sure footing in styx after forgetting to lose SD so it's effectively useless

[true fable]

didnt you do that on the 56 run

[mossy zinc]

Amir also never beat 32 Heat. All the 💗 to him, but I'm skeptical of his high-heat advice until I some high-heat action from him.

[true fable]

or was that another one

[daring hedge]

yes lmao

[true fable]

hermes cup for high heat when

actually that sound kind of miserable

[loud coral]

Devs are either terrible or godlike when playing their own game, it's kinda beautiful

[daring hedge]

darren has cleared 32 though, we need his high heat advice here

[mossy zinc]

Darren told me in an AMA that his highest was 32, and Amir, I think, said in a previous AMA that Darren had the highest on the team.

[true fable]

good advice on the setup team

my tartarus split is faster than my 6 heat tartarus split

[white magnet]

Neat... I lost 26 hp in second room 😐

[mossy zinc]

They're technically all godlike when playing Hades, though.

[loud coral]

"Darren, what advice do you have to any players struggling with 32 heat?"
"git gud"

[mossy zinc]

That's . . . kind of what they went for.

He said basically he only did it for the Skelly statue lol.

[loud coral]

Well I mean can you blame him

[daring hedge]

i, too, would work hard to earn a statue of myself

three, rather

[white magnet]

They're not of you, though

[mossy zinc]

He wrote all the music for Bastion, Transistor, Pyre, and Hades.

I ain't gonna blame him for nothing.

[daring hedge]

they're of darren though @white magnet

his skeletal form

[loud coral]

The 16 heat statue is the best imo, something about it is just perfect

[true fable]

the 32 heat one inspires me

[bronze viper]

Also voiced Zagreus, which I can't even imagine how long that took

[true fable]

the fact that he did zag and skelly is so funny to me

[bronze viper]

And Orpheus

The Holy Trinity

[true fable]

smh i forgot to hit record on this 32 heat try

[mossy zinc]

I sure would love to watch @barren lance stream some 40 Heat attempts. I don't think I'm alone in that.

[true fable]

if i actually beat the time im gonna be malding

[daring hedge]

darren is just the singing voice of orpheus, not the speaking dialogue voice

similar to how eurydice has that distinction

[loud coral]

Well the problem is there's no Skelly statue for 40 heat, so that's off the table

[white magnet]

Would be easy if not every single enemy had CC...

[mossy zinc]

Who wouldn't want to see Zagreus trash-talk dad while playing Zagreus trash-talking dad at 40 Heat?

[white magnet]

Yep... Not gonna beat FO2...

[trim sigil]

64 heat statue should be a thing ngl

[mossy zinc]

Did I say Zagreus? I meant Skelly.

[trim sigil]

8,16,32,64. Like, it's a no-brainer

[true fable]

i want to see logan do it lol

[daring hedge]

locked behind hell mode and eons of pain

[true fable]

watch hades beat hades in the game hades

[trim sigil]

Indeed

[mossy zinc]

Nah.

Logan can just cheat the system.

Since he's the storyteller.

[daring hedge]

logan just loses to hades at the end and says he wins because hades won

[loud coral]

Imagine the 64 heat statue being an MS Paint rendition of Skelly Amir personally hand-crafted in 2 minutes

[daring hedge]

easy

[bronze viper]

Skelly himself was the 64 heat statue the whole time.

[daring hedge]

the 64 heat statue was the friends we made along the way

[true fable]

if you beat 64 heat you deserve a 3-D printed skelly statue mailed to your house

[trim sigil]

[mossy zinc]

"And then, Hades fell to his death."

[true fable]

the IRL skelly statue

[loud coral]

Nah, just give them a real human skeleton for the reward

[mossy zinc]

Who'd question it if Logan says it?

That'd just be canon then.

And Logan wins.

[trim sigil]

ngl that's a good incentive

I always wanted a real human skeleton

[loud coral]

Logan could say anything and manage to convince us it was real

[trim sigil]

or humanoid even, it's all good

[white magnet]

Yep... I didn't even reach the third boss with FO2...

[true fable]

when you get a submittable time but forgot to press record

i cry

[ripe crane]

Elite shield dudes are ruining my life

[true fable]

i love that their little three hit spin doesn't trigger the shield

great stuff

[brisk nimbus]

i struggle with elite bow guys on FO2 x_x

[ripe crane]

Lost my extra DD to them, which otherwise would've been enough for me to kill dad

[true fable]

the elite bows and chariots do the most damage to me on high heat

[brisk nimbus]

ugh the chariots!!

FO2 + elite chariot with extra haste is just a nightmare

[true fable]

meg keepsake is actually kind of good for speed on 32

not sure if it's as good as dad

[brisk nimbus]

i've been trying to beat 32 chiron and got reeeally close a few times, but the JS2 + RI2 is kinda doing me in... i think i'll retry with the config nyaanyaa posted

[true fable]

i just accidentally put it on and it seemed to be doing work

[brisk nimbus]

i never thought of taking meg keepsake o:

[daring hedge]

honestly at high heat, i fear some room layouts full of BP2 elite strongbows

their "low" difficulty rating just really gets out of hand there

[brisk nimbus]

i don't know a great way to handle it? i try baiting the targets and ducking behind cover, but sometimes the arrows still clip... or maybe i just have to git gud 😂

[true fable]

its basically just permanent +40% with SD LC4

do they not get awarded many points toward room cap tailesque

i know flame wheels count for basically crumbs

and chariots are overweighted

[daring hedge]

yeah, the "game director" can just give you a ton of them because they're considered "easier" elysium enemies

[true fable]

dang thats tough

what is considered by the game to be a harder enemy in elysium? longspear?

[upper edge]

yeah, the "game director" can just give you a ton of them because they're considered "easier" elysium enemies
@daring hedge That's dumb

[daring hedge]

yeah longspears are great because the game considers them pretty high in difficulty

[analog sequoia]

anyone got any preferences for spear runs? trying to use guan yu aspect but dang the 50% hp drain does not feel like its worth it

[daring hedge]

same with elite splitter witches, for some reason

[brisk nimbus]

the irony... i feel like longspears are waaay easier to deal with than bows or shields

[true fable]

elite splitter witches feel like the heightened security of mobs

not a problem until they are a really big problem

[ripe crane]

There are a couple of enemies that really need higher weight for spawn difficulty. Looking at you, clone thugs

[true fable]

when they hit you with that juicy 100 damage ball right as it splits

i feel like the thugs burn time off the clock if nothing else

[brisk nimbus]

the splitters with the teleporty perk are so annoying u_u

[daring hedge]

yeah, simply waiting for wretched thug waves to spawn so you can immediately delete them is a pain

[true fable]

thug waves is just a slow death by TD3

[mossy zinc]

@true fable I think Chariots and Greatshields have the highest difficulty value in Elysium.

[white magnet]

Is every enemy supposed to have some sort of CC?

[mossy zinc]

Oh and maybe Soulcatchers. Not typically a lot of them. But the game also ranks them by memory usage, I think? So maybe it's just because of that. I think you never see more than 3 of them at a time. Maybe 4?

CC?

I just read Crush Counter every time I see that lol.

Too much Street Fighter V.

[white magnet]

Crowd Control

[mossy zinc]

Oh.

[white magnet]

I get hit 5+ times every single times I get hit by something

I don't even lose a DD at a boss. I lose them at regular rooms, FFS

[mossy zinc]

Well, you're just one enemy, so how do they have crowd control?

You get stunned briefly any time you take damage, though.

[white magnet]

That's what it's called, when you can't move...

[trim sigil]

that'd be just stun

[white magnet]

Or similar effects.

[trim sigil]

Granted, stun can be considered CC, but that would imply stunning one enemy to deal with another easily

[white magnet]

Stun is CC...

[trim sigil]

And zag is rather alone foe

[mossy zinc]

Well, doesn't matter what it's called anyway. That's besides the point.

[trim sigil]

Guess it's just like TAS tools aren't always speedruns lol

[mossy zinc]

Yes, you get briefly stunned any time you take damage.

[white magnet]

Can't you remove it somehow? -_-

[mossy zinc]

Hyper Sprint makes you Sturdy after Dash for a short moment, that can help with that.

The only way to actually remove it is with the Duo Boon Unshakable Mettle.

That makes you immune to stun.

[white magnet]

... Can't I just remove some stupid file? 😐

Not gonna be able to beat the timer if I'm gonna have to dash through the room for every attack at Elysium...

[mossy zinc]

I'm sure you could mod the game somehow in that way, but we're not supposed to discuss things like that in this server. So I can't help with that even if I knew how.

I could help with strategies and stuff that you can use in the regular game, though.

You've said you're not good with FO2. So is it that what's getting you hit so much now?

[white magnet]

I don't think strategies is gonna be much of help, if I can't even get to third boss with FO :I

Yep, FO ruins my run

:I

[mossy zinc]

32 took me like a week to beat back then when I did my first.

That's a week of playing for hours every day.

[white magnet]

I'm pretty sure I'm not gonna get good enough to beat FO2... 🤔

[true fable]

also took me a week of hours on a day as people in this channel can attest

just keep at it and FO2 will start to feel natural

youve tried it once?

[mossy zinc]

That was with Malphon, though, but yeah, it's just hard.

[white magnet]

Yeah?

[mossy zinc]

You've gotten to Elysium, though, yes?

[true fable]

but if it's really abhorrent you can always try a different pact

[white magnet]

Yes

[mossy zinc]

That's pretty far.

[white magnet]

But I lost 3 DDs there, and 1 before the first boss...

[mossy zinc]

Do you think FO1 would be okay?

[white magnet]

Would be so much easier if you could cancel animation and dash even though you get hit...

[mossy zinc]

I don't know if you have experience with FO1.

[white magnet]

Like, SO MUCH

[mossy zinc]

Well.

[white magnet]

Uhh, maybe once a long time ago??

[mossy zinc]

32 isn't supposed to be easy.

[white magnet]

Idk, I tried it once or twice, I think

[mossy zinc]

Only 4.4% of players even did 16 Heat.

[white magnet]

Well you're supposed to be able to beat it, when it's a friggin' achievement in the game. Not to make it a pro-like game mode...

16?

[twilit orbit]

i think my first 32 took about a day or so of grinding

[white magnet]

Uhh

[mossy zinc]

So 32 is maybe 1% or something?

16 is the second skelly prize, yes.

[twilit orbit]

and it definitely wasnt a reliable clear because I took AP2 lol

[white magnet]

Isn't 16 kinda easy, though?

[gritty sorrel]

no achievement for 32, but there's one for 16

[white magnet]

I did it with fists, at least

[mossy zinc]

They didn't add an achievement for 32 because they knew it was hard.

[white magnet]

There is an achievement to get the third statue, yes

There isn't?

[mossy zinc]

It's kind of open-ended in terms of difficulty.

[gritty sorrel]

not on Steam there isn't

[mossy zinc]

There's another Skelly prize for it.

[gritty sorrel]

right

[mossy zinc]

But no Steam achievement.

[white magnet]

Okay

[twilit orbit]

im am by no means a top player, but I can basically win every time on 20 heat but my 32 heat runs still die a reasonable portion of the time (mostly to hades)

[mossy zinc]

I'm pretty confident I could streak at 32 with random weapons. But I'm also a top player lol.

But it's definitely something that takes practice to get there.

[twilit orbit]

my big issue is that I still take a lot more damage than I should since I just like dealing damage

[true fable]

^

[twilit orbit]

so adding levels in FO or HL really makes the game harder for me

[true fable]

HL is very tough for me i have soft skin

[mossy zinc]

Like, I grinded the Hades fight alone for 3+ hours every day for a week. So I'm very confident in that fight.

That was with HL5 CP2 HS FO2 . . . basically anything that made the fight harder except DC (because I knew I wasn't gonna take that at 52 for the real run anyway).

So like, it's not necessary to grind boss fights like that for 32.

[twilit orbit]

yeah on my 32 runs I dont take EM4 and I try not to take FO

[mossy zinc]

But you just gotta realize that in terms of the potential you still have as a player, you're really just starting.

[twilit orbit]

though sometimes I turn on FO to reduce the heat in other places

[mossy zinc]

I didn't even recognize most enemy attack telegraphs until I started doing 40+ lol.

Like, I never realized those Inferno-Bombers did a little hop before dropping their triple bombs lol.

There's just so much stuff going on at the same time that it just takes time and experience and practice to really see all those things.

Or some enemies you just gotta learn that okay, I can actually react to this move, I just gotta watch out for this animation that telegraphs an attack is coming.

[cinder cave]

Yah it took me about 25 runs to realise that all enemies telegraph like crazy

[mossy zinc]

And then other enemies like Greatshields that have the Speeder perk . . . don't even try to react to their attack.

[cinder cave]

but there's a lot to learn on that front

Fast enemies are dangerous, who knew

[mossy zinc]

You have to actually learn at what range their attack triggers and know when to dash preemptively.

If you want to beat them reliably without getting hit at all. Which is always the end goal, of course.

[gritty sorrel]

that's sort of why HL isn't as bad as FO sometimes

[mossy zinc]

But you can still beat them without learning that. But then of course, you will struggle more in that area.

FO2 is pretty brutal. I was hoping they could deal with it because Chiron is just that good.

But going FO0 is probably the better idea if it's giving them such a hard time.

Which is fine, most of my 32 Heat runs if I'm not deliberately looking to make it challenging don't use FO at all.

But if you have difficulty with all of TD, FO, and LC4 . . . I think you'll want to learn to deal with at least one of them for 32 Heat.

[radiant cipher]

i cant for the life of me scale damage well enough with chaos aspect, what do you do with that aspect on shield?

[true fable]

zeus on special

[mossy zinc]

Chaos Aspect always had some DPS issues.

[radiant cipher]

already using zeus on special, still really having bad time on room clears and bossing

sure it's great on defense but i just lose a lot of time

[ripe crane]

You don't always have to do the bull rush throw, just using the special normally is often faster

[mossy zinc]

lol I just get so confused about all my buttons with Chaos Aspect that I can't actually use it anyway.

Because I change my buttons a lot for Beowulf.

[unreal pasture]

@radiant cipher What modifiers are you playing? ... I think it could be weird to play TD3 with no forced overtime... and that could actually mess with your time

I like Ares/Zeus on shield and I guess Merciful End could be a build if you're confident shotgunning with the shield

The rotation Chaos Shield does honestly seems about perfect for merciful end, tbh... and you do frequently find yourself backstab shotgunning with it

I just never have gotten it, for some reason or another

[mossy zinc]

TD3 without FO is fine. The difference isn't that big.

[mossy zinc]

Bruh . . . https://imgur.com/a/lfINxxP

Thanks, Amir.

[loud coral]

Ditch Greatest Reflex imo

It'll hurt but it's the best of the three

[mossy zinc]

That's what I did.

[loud coral]

I hate it when that happens though, sometimes I wanna restart just off of that lmao

[bronze viper]

All is forgiven when you get epic Greatest Reflexes

[mossy zinc]

https://imgur.com/a/16POeea

[loud coral]

Lemme guess, Patty ran out?

[mossy zinc]

After this one lol.

Just let me do a 32 Heat High Confidence Guan Yu run in peace, game.

[loud coral]

This hurts enough to see, can't imagine the pain of actually playing

Shouldn't have spoken, I just got an early Patty

[mossy zinc]

Well, my build is still good. Just gotta fight dad with low max HP and I'm sleepy lol.

Phase 2, still 3 acorn charges. Easy.

[ripe crane]

Had to ditch my greatest reflex again today going into Styx with ME Dem fists. Managed to get enough $ for the Hermes boon and he didn't offer it again :(

It is really one of the most important survival boons

[mossy zinc]

Victory. https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725021639506526249/774408440754864213/Hades_1140.png?width=815&height=458

I forgot to turn on High Confidence for 32 with Guan Yu last time, so this time I did it properly lol.

[cerulean frigate]

Heroic strong drink

[ripe crane]

Very nice looking run. I give it a 124/135 👌

[mossy zinc]

lol

[white magnet]

Hah

Greatest bug ever

https://prnt.sc/vewzch

Theseus is stuck right there

[loud coral]

Looks like I gotta do 45 heat now

fun

[white magnet]

I got 8 mins to beat Styx + final boss...

May as well just surrender

[mossy zinc]

Why do you gotta do 45? lol

8 minutes sounds fine.

[loud coral]

I mean what am I gonna do, not do 45 heat?

[white magnet]

I think I need about 10 mins to beat the boss... so, no, 8 mins is not fine 😐

5.41 to beat the boss...

Took me 3 mins just for 2 rooms :c

[mossy zinc]

I believe in you.

[white magnet]

I literally can't beat that boss because of FO... Half his attacks hits me, and when he hits me once he'll hit me one-two more times...

Barely got half way through second round...

[waxen relic]

32 heat right?

should be possible to configure without FO and without TD

[white magnet]

I can't beat it with HL either..

[waxen relic]

might need SD and LC4 then though i guess

[white magnet]

I need 2-3 DDs to be able to hope to survive the final boss

[mossy zinc]

You can have that with SD tbh.

[white magnet]

Can you get 2 DDs from Athena?

[mossy zinc]

Yes.

[white magnet]

It uses SD befoe Athena's?

[mossy zinc]

If you use up your SD in the chamber before picking up her boon, Last Stand and Deathless Stand will each give you a DD.

Correct.

[white magnet]

But going for 3 Athenas + dmg boons + forced to sell a boon for every region...

[mossy zinc]

And with Patroclus, you get +50% healing from your SD and those DDs.

So you can have SD + 2 DDs that all heal you for 90% of your HP if you're lucky.

[waxen relic]

forced to sell a boon sounds worse than it is. Provided you have Dark Foresight

[mossy zinc]

You could avoid having to sell boons by putting 4 points into LC.

[white magnet]

Then I'll just die faster...

[mossy zinc]

Basically, your difficulty with LC4, FO2 and TD3 kinda forces you to take unpleasant pacts like your enemies dealing a ton of damage etc.

Sure, but you can die once each chamber for free.

But anyway, I'm thinking turning down the heat to practice clearing faster could help you a lot.

[white magnet]

How am I supposed to clear faster??

[mossy zinc]

That way, you can better deal with TD and maybe do TD2 or TD3.

[white magnet]

Btw, can I get the hammer that shoots the arrow to multiple enemies, with Rama?

[loud coral]

Yup, works like a charm with Rama

[white magnet]

I can imagine

I got that + 3 arrow split with Chiron

[cerulean frigate]

A lot of it just comes from understanding enemy behaviors and weapon builds/boons

[white magnet]

Would've been nice with Rama

[mossy zinc]

Can't poinpoint that without seeing you play. But you can watch runs from any top players to see what they do different to clear fast.

[white magnet]

• Artemis

[mossy zinc]

If you can do TD3 reliably or at least TD2, it will let you avoid other, more painful options.

[cerulean frigate]

Chain and triple shot currently don't mix too well for whatever reason. You get strange arrow behavior

They're good hammers all the same

[white magnet]

I'm already using TD2...

[mossy zinc]

Well, getting your clear time down to TD3 will let you take off 3 Heat somewhere else.

3 Heat could be 1 rank of FO that you could avoid, for example.

Or you could practice at lower heats with FO2 in order to get better used to that without being punished too hard for every single mistake.

[waxen relic]

It ultimately depends on your goal. There's probably some cheese that can let you clear 32 once, or you git gud enough to clear 32 properly.

[cerulean frigate]

Going from 16 to 32 for the statue is just really hard if you don't put in practice in the 20s range.

[mossy zinc]

Another good option is making a practice save for specifically the Hades fight to practice that. Since you say that fight is really giving you trouble.

[white magnet]

I refuse to believe it has to be this much of a BS experience to get an ugly statue...

[daring hedge]

just a heads up, the mods don't really like people evading the proxy filter like that

[mossy zinc]

If you're not enjoying the challenge, maybe just focus on other things like trying out some new aspects or finishing your bounties.

You can always come back to it later. It's not going anywhere.

[loud coral]

Damn, Alecto just annihilated me

I hate those blade saw thingies

[white magnet]

Got nothing else to do than getting that statue and completing the last few achievements...

[mossy zinc]

I thought you didn't have all aspects maxed out.

[white magnet]

I have enough

I only like the bow and the fists, I think

[mossy zinc]

I see.

Well.

Accepting that it really is this difficult is the first step, I would say.

But also that there's quite a lot of room for you to grow as a player, still.

[rain sedge]

correct me if I'm wrong here

but meg's keepsake is 50% damage increase at 30% hp or lower

SD is basically capping your health to 30% at high heat

wouldn't that be the best keepsake choice then?

[white magnet]

I use acorn..

[mossy zinc]

40% damage.

You'll want to force specific gods first, and then you'll want Acorn for survivability.

Other than that, Stubborn Defiance rounds up more often than not, so you actually end up with more than 30% HP.

[white magnet]

With this heat I go for acorn after 2nd boss

[rain sedge]

I should correct myself, so wouldn't meg be the best offensive choice?

ah... that rounding up is a problem

[mossy zinc]

And so, your Skull Earring won't actually proc after reviving with SD.

You'll also want to get Touches of Styx and Last Stand, both of which increase the healing from your SD.

[rain sedge]

thank you, that's helpful 😄

[mossy zinc]

Ideally, you get through Tartarus at least without ever dropping below 30%, too.

Although that's not always doable.

[rain sedge]

I'm not that good, I use the lava to get me to 30% since usually I end up lower than that

[mossy zinc]

Picking up a Centaur Heart or Darkness when you're at 30% will also push your HP above 30%.

[rain sedge]

if I don't have divine deflect I kinda eat a lot of damage

why would darkness matter? don't you always do LC4 and SD?

[mossy zinc]

That's all of us lol. Divine Dash is just really really good.

[rain sedge]

it doesn't bypass LC right?

[mossy zinc]

Because Darkness increases your max HP.

[rain sedge]

ahhhh, again, my bad. Thanks!

[mossy zinc]

If you want guaranteed damage early on, at least, that doesn't rely on boons, you'd probably just take Shackle, actually.

It's between a rare and an epic Heartbreak Strike. That's really good.

[rotund coyote]

I was planning on having my scaling up to 20 heat being solely EM, MM, CP, and FO, but FO2 absolutely destroyed me

now im uncertain what i'd take for the 32 heat run

also I've just been defaulting to Pom Petal and Bouldy Keepsake because of the sheer amount of buffs from pom, and free healing from bouldy, though I can see forcing gods or using butterfly pin/hermes feather on certain runs being very worthwhile

[ripe crane]

I don't feel like I'm getting any better at this EM4 fight with fists. I'm having a lot of trouble timing the dash through Hades' spin for some reason

Probably because the timing for all of his other attacks is basically the same but this one is slightly delayed

[grizzled jewel]

I've tried EM4 two times now, once with shield, once with bow. Destroyed by it both times. D:

That new spear throw keeps getting me.

[heady olive]

hmm i rarely get hit by his spear but i got hit by his spins a lot

[ripe crane]

This game's going to give me an aneurysm. Running RI0, AP0, and God's Legacy for 3 hours, have not seen hunting blades even once.

High heat strat: sleep

[sly remnant]

Yea this is why I hate beyblades. Its literally one boon or bust

[trim sigil]

Just don't run AP-- oh wait

[cursive rune]

so guys, i used to play hades a year ago and i was thinking... how does a hell mode new game on 40 heat stream sound? 👀

i think i wanna go for it

i started streaming like 2 days ago and kinda dont know what to play and i haven't caught hades' new updates

[trim sigil]

Sounds like even more hellish than hell mode grind

I like it, do that

(actually don't because new game has a bunch of locked out pacts so you'd be forced into some nonsense)

RI and EM iirc

[cursive rune]

locked out pacts? and what nonsense 😮

[edgy arrow]

EM4 is locked out, and i wouldn’t call EM3 nonsense

[trim sigil]

Nonsense is mostly CP2 JS3 BP2 FO2 TD3 ig

and AP

[edgy arrow]

hmm yeah

[cursive rune]

hmmm im not quite familiar with the abbreviations

[edgy arrow]

those on zag sword lmao

i can’t even do 40 on zag with a mirror

[trim sigil]

There is a pinned message with all of them

[cursive rune]

There is a pinned message with all of them
@trim sigil oh awesome

[edgy arrow]

oh yeah sorry we like to speak in code to confuse newcomers lol

[cursive rune]

dw dw xD im taking a look at it

so yeah theres like 2 pacts that are missing from the list here

and i wouldnt include TD since i dont really intend to speedrun just yet hahahaha

tbh just getting past the first world would be a milestone since last time i played was a year ago

Nonsense is mostly CP2 JS3 BP2 FO2 TD3 ig
@trim sigil ooohhhh ohohohoho those are all things im 100% willing to try and overcome

just looked them up

[edgy arrow]

not taking TD3 is -6 heat

do what’s fun for you ofc, but that might be shooting yourself in the foot a bit

[bronze viper]

TD3 on Zag Sword assumes that you can do damage with Zag Sword lol

[edgy arrow]

touché

[cursive rune]

do what’s fun for you ofc, but that might be shooting yourself in the foot a bit
@edgy arrow thats the idea 👀

[edgy arrow]

i keep forgetting this is zag sword lmao

TD2 should be fine tho

[bronze viper]

Yeah

[cursive rune]

really? oof

also theres the whole being new to streaming so i think the timer would take away from the experience

being timed makes me feel really pressured hahaha

[bronze viper]

Jumping from not playing for a year into post-release game at 40 heat on the worst aspect with no mirror is going to entertaining enough I imagine.

[edgy arrow]

the IGT stops when you pause the game

[cursive rune]

hell yeah hahahah

[bronze viper]

How "new game" are you talking?

As in basically fresh file? Or are you going to spend Darkness as you fail

[cursive rune]

like new file, i beat the game like 6 times back when a lot of people had no models

[edgy arrow]

not necessarily trying to discourage you, but be aware that 40 heat is much harder now than it was in its early incarnations

[bronze viper]

So... you're aware that you're running RI4 at 40 heat. Tbf you can just take RI4 so that's 32 heat.

[edgy arrow]

you can’t on fresh save

[bronze viper]

Zing

[cursive rune]

oh i didnt even play with heat before hahahaha but since then i've beaten things like sekiro with demon bell and no charm so i figure i might have a slim chance

[bronze viper]

So you're attempting 48 heat.

[edgy arrow]

RI is locked until the mirror is fully unlocked

[cursive rune]

wait whats R14?

ohhh

[bronze viper]

Routine Inspection 4. Each rank cuts off 3 mirror talents

[cursive rune]

since its a fresh file im limited to 46 but im not taking td so its 40

[bronze viper]

No, I mean 40 heat fresh file is "effectively" 48 heat.

[cursive rune]

ohhhh

[edgy arrow]

well, more than that because you don’t have companions, keepsake, fountain chambers etc. etc.

[bronze viper]

Yeah

I was being optimistic lol

[edgy arrow]

i mean, give it a shot anyway though

[bronze viper]

Fresh file Zag Sword is already plenty challenging enough. Plus Personal Liability, you may want to try the base 5 heat first :3

[edgy arrow]

trying more heat that we have any chance of succeeding on is half the culture of this channel

[cursive rune]

https://tenor.com/view/laugh-weird-yes-ohgod-gif-8186699

[bronze viper]

Pretty sure I'm incapable of seeing him as anything but Ryuk from the Death Note movie now.

triggered

[cursive rune]

LMAO

didnt even know he was there hahahaha

but 2 words though:
lets
go

made my mind up im going for it lmao

i'm mastering each and every enemy moveset and behaviour all the way up to hades HAHAH (or at least tartarus!)

if people like the streams i might just push for hades

[edgy arrow]

do it

getting out of tartarus would honestly be an achievement on its own

[cursive rune]

right?? im hyped

thanks for the info!! its good to know what im getting into hahahaha

[bronze viper]

To be fair, no one knows what you're getting into.

You'll be telling us I imagine.

[cursive rune]

which makes it that much better!!!!

lmao

im gonna post the link to my channel on the self promotion chat in case any of you wanna be there (thanks a lot if you do!), probably gonna do it tomorrow

[edgy arrow]

uncharted territory

for all we know, it might be really easy

(it won’t be)

[mossy zinc]

Zag Sword
Easy
Pick one.

[bronze viper]

I get high-key triggered even thinking about doing Zag Sword at 40 heat on a max file.

[edgy arrow]

i gave up on zag at 32 ngl

[mossy zinc]

ME or bust I guess lol.

[cursive rune]

Pick one.
@mossy zinc lmaaaaao

guys youre giving me ideas

zag sword only is being added 👀

[bronze viper]

I thought that was a given.

[mossy zinc]

Not holding my breath here.

[bronze viper]

It's about the journey lol

[cursive rune]

i mean... IF ITS POSSIBLE... we're getting up to tartarus at least

[mossy zinc]

I feel like you should at least get to Tartarus, yeah.

[edgy arrow]

you’re getting to tartarus?

that’s good; achievable goals

[cursive rune]

if people like the streams i'll definitely push for beating the game haha

[heady olive]

damn i was close to beating em hades

he was half hp i think i mightve messed my build up a little

[cursive rune]

oh i just looked up what EM is

if i do beat the game i'll 100% have to do it again because of it lmao

[honest kernel]

Some tips for the 32 Heat plz

[edgy arrow]

don’t die

also: kill the enemies

more seriously; what weapon are you running?

[honest kernel]

chiron bow or magnetic fists

[edgy arrow]

chiron is a really solid choice

generally buildwise you want to either go for heartbreak strike + deadly flourish -> heart rend or drunken flourish + heartbreak strike -> low tolerance

one thing about chiron is that it can struggle with JS, but takes CP in stride

are you running EM4? a lot of people do that at 32, and i honestly don’t recommend it

that fight is a nightmare with other pacts enabled

[honest kernel]

EM4? The improve of the bosses?

Sorry im spanish so i dont know so much english

[edgy arrow]

specifically the 4th rank of it, which empowers Hades

[mossy zinc]

Deadly Strike, Drunken Flourish, Splitting Headache is also solid on Chiron.

[edgy arrow]

^