wow game is fun again
#h1-high-heat-strategies
true fable
daring hedge
highest with lucifer in 1.0 is 40 i think, by onyx
edgy arrow
oh neat
ripe crane
Retrash got like 45 the other day
daring hedge
ahh
ripe crane
Ya 10/28 he posted a 45 heat win with it
daring hedge
unfortunately no video, dang
ripe crane
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/599449585710006288/771186526225956884/unknown.png Got a 45 win with Lucifer, feels like triple bomb is the only way to actually get anything done with this aspect - from Retrash
honest kernel
Considering it's AP1, and Artemis's keepsake was likelly the one the run started with, Aphrodite for the attack was likely what was sought after, but AP1 locked it away, and taking the cast makes it possible to go for Heart Rend
That's my guess anyways
ripe crane
Looks like the highest ever Zag fist was a 46. Wonder if I can meme that to a 47 
true fable
dodge build time?
ripe crane
Yee :3
honest kernel
Imagine a super high heat Lambient Plume run
... Wait a minute, is that what you intend do to with the meme part ?
rain sedge
is there a good/enjoyable shield build for "high" heat (~16-20)?
I've tried a few things but nothing feels enjoyable/good
beowulf with the shooty hammer upgrade + aphro cast, sea storm build on normal aspect (knockback attack, zeus special)
chaos shield feels kinda clunky
and zeus aspect feels unplayable
am I doing something wrong?
honest kernel
Shield is a bit slow damage-wise compared to the other weapons
It trades that for mobility and safety ... unless Beowulf is involved, in which case it goes full glass canon lmao
Honestly, bashing peeps with the Zagreus aspect of shield can work out fine for that level of heat
rain sedge
I had a lot of fun with normal enemies with knockback build + sea storm
but bosses can't really be knocked to walls and my build becomes bad
for it to work on boss I need sea storm + zeus legendary which is kinda unrealistic in a run
honest kernel
With the right mirror upgrades it's not that uncommon to get by say Asphodel/Elysium
But for Zag aspect shield, you could try it out with Dio on attack, or maybe even Zeus
Surprisingly, the shield attack is pretty fast, and it even has hammer upgrades that works out well for that playstyle
Double strike on attack hammer, Faster or Stronger bull rush ...
Outside of that, shield runs don't tend to differ too much, as far as attack/special are concerned, unless you dip into the aspects
Zeus aspect is, well, unique and not for everyone. Chaos aspect is a bit more precise than say before it got nerfed
Beowulf You nuke peeps with a strong cast, and anything else is wonky
daring hedge
despite chaos aspect's changes, slapping thunder flourish on it and stacking T2s still works well at 16-20
honest kernel
^ It's one way to build the new chaos aspect yeah
twilit orbit
im going to have to start learning shield soon, since its the only weapon that I havent done 32 yet
whats are the recommended starting boons for each of the shield aspects?
honest kernel
For zag aspect, Any sort of big attack damage boon (Aphrodite, Artemis or Athena) works wonders for what it can do.
For Chaos aspect, Zeus/Dio/Ares(?) on special is the way to go, alongside whatever attack you need for priviledged status/duos
true fable
chaos aspect can handle high heat pretty solidly still with ares/zeus special
honest kernel
For Zeus aspect, Zeus special, or Ares Special for Merciful End are what you want. Can also do fine with Aphrodite/Artemis on special
true fable
dio i find i less effective vs mobs but could probably do some good damage vs bosses
you could also do ares attack on zeus shield for merciful end
especially since you might need curse of agony in tartarus for earlygame damage depending on pacts
although i guess you could also just hide behind beyblade
honest kernel
For Beowulf, Aphrodite/Dio cast are the big ones
And then get a boon somewhere else for a duo to help you out (Artemis attack for Heart Rend while the cast's on cooldown, Zeus Call or Demeter Attack for their respective duos with Dio)
true fable
demeter dio duo is actually slightly worse on beo imo
for some reason it has a delay
compared to normal cast
zeus dio duo is pretty good though
honest kernel
It's technically the same delay as with other weapons, it's just that with regular Dio cast, you need to lob it before it explodes, meanwhile the Ice Wine duo doesn't need to lob, but delays a bit.
With that being said, I can see it
true fable
yeah the tough part is they keep the delay on beo even though beo cast has no lob
one giga good duo for dio cast is mirage shot if you luck into it but that's a big if
north dove
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/599449585710006288/773358280155594752/unknown.png First time making it to Hades on a 50 heat run. Didn't get very far but hey that's progress
north dove
Yeah it is
honest kernel
And with sword too 👀
true fable
dang with poseidon sword
honest kernel
Non-nemesis too
true fable
absolute gamer this guy
gritty sorrel
why are people using +3 health per chamber on high heat, wouldn't the darkness % heal be more optimal? am i missing something?
or is it just another personal challenge?
twilit orbit
it doesnt matter at all on high heat
most people play with LC4, which completely removes your ability to heal
honest kernel
Lasting Consequences 4 means the only heal you get is from dying
Hence, the Stubborn Defiance usage
gritty sorrel
gotcha
twilit orbit
with LC4 the mirror choice is between healing 0 per room and healing 0 when you pick up darkness
thorn cape
Does anyone kill off the mirror of night talents for heat or nah?
daring hedge
only when we have to, really. you can avoid routine inspection pretty much entirely even through the 40s to 50
dark foresight is insanely good now
RI3 and 4 are especially brutal
I can't imagine doing high heat with RI4, honestly
true fable
to think i played like 3 weeks of this game with olympian favor 😅
loud coral
Rare boons are nice, but not having to sell the boons you really need is so much nicer
ember bronze
Yeah, I feel like working backwards from 63--the first thing you have to put "back" to have any sensible ability to play is RI4
followed closely by RI3 and AP2
that gets you down to 56 heat, then you start having some actual decisions
daring hedge
yeah, that was spot on my exact setup for the 56 today
AP2 is simply a pain, and RI3 makes you rely on hermes dashes
ember bronze
did you get 56?
twilit orbit
yeah he did 56 today
daring hedge
yeah
twilit orbit
note that running hell mode gives +1 heat
daring hedge
i really need to grind out that hell mode file lol
honest kernel
It absolutely is
No Stubborn defiances means you have to do the run near-perfectly, while being fast enough to respect Tight Deadline 3
With all the modifiers for health on enemies and extra spawns
And no extra-dash + no extra casts/cast benefits sucks a LOT more than maybe the occasionnal health depletion protection being gone
gritty sorrel
i stupidly started my playthrough on hellmode 😄
gritty sorrel
i don't know if i'm going to get to the high high heats but at least it taught me to play semi-competently
edgy arrow
i wish i knew how to play semi competently tbh
rain sedge
hang on, nemesis is good? what?
I tried it on 15 heat or something and it felt so bad
I had heart rend and artemis attack and everything
and the hold attack for flurry attack hammer thingy
twilit orbit
you probably want aphrodite attack
built in crit means you want a higher percentage scaling
since then theres more for your crit to magnify
the only hammer that really matters is double edge
because dash attack on the sword is good
true fable
yeah i kept going for deadly reversal and then wondered why my build felt like a wet noodle
twilit orbit
and the basic attack is pretty mediocre
rain sedge
I have so much to learn
true fable
it is better than other hammers though because it still does something
twilit orbit
to be honest I think that basic attack boosting hammers are occasionally okay
rain sedge
on that run, I had flurry hammer and wave hammer
but I might be too bad to play on melee range
true fable
my problem with the basic attack hammers is that i never basic attack
twilit orbit
I think its not super unlikely for you to weave in one or two standing attacks after your dash attacks occasionally
the thrust on the sword is trash though
true fable
i spose
twilit orbit
so you never want to do it
true fable
thrust is def trash
twilit orbit
and the thrust hammer is so awful lol
ripe crane
Down to last 30% hp on dad phase 3 with 47 heat zag fist dodge memes. Couldn't quite get there :(
honest kernel
@ripe crane You actually got as far as that ? damn
ripe crane
Had a great start with natural Zeus and Athena, and epic dodge boon from Hermes. Easy win if I had gotten Patty.
Even a call might've made the difference
honest kernel
It definitely could have
ripe crane
Guh, made it to Hades again and played really poorly. Had aphro attack and her legendary. Kinda silly but not as busted as one might think
cerulean frigate
given the cooldown interval and how short the mini stun on hades is yeah doesn't surprise me
so what's the consensus on kinetic launcher? i've only gotten it once and it was on demeter fists so not the most "fair" run with it
daring hedge
yeah, i find it underwhelming and awkward off of demeter aspect, and even though it's serviceable on dem fists, it's incompatible with explosive upper, so i avoid it anyways
cerulean frigate
i had tempest flourish + sea storm and both the boons involving knockback damage and it was pretty strong but it still felt like i would've gotten more raw power out of deadly flourish with explosive upper yeah
oak geode
when i am on any heat level, am i still able to gain any ungained rewards from lower heat levels as well?
i mean not at the same time, but if i have already gained that reward from the current level does it pass to the reward from a lower level, or some default reward?
daring hedge
in terms of bounties, you will always get the rewards from your current bounty level regardless of how high you go. so, say your bounties are for 4 heat, and you complete a 16 heat run. you'll still get the 4 heat bounty rewards, and it will move on to 5 heat bounties
0 heat is the weird exception, where you can do that bounty set at any time outside of the heat progression
oak geode
alright, sorry im not exactly sure what you mean, ive only just unlocked the ability to do runs with more bounties so im not very experienced in it
daring hedge
oh then i wouldn't worry about it really!
you'll get your rewards pretty naturally
you don't get locked out of anything
oak geode
alright, thanks
cerulean frigate
the game expects you to raise heat 1 at a time for bounties but you don't have to. like, if you put on 6 heat and do 6 winning runs you will get all 6 levels of bounties for that run
I just have heat on 20 with the modifiers i want to practice more when grinding out bounties
oak geode
okay, i think i at least mostly understand
bronze viper
@daring hedge Grats on 56! I tried playing today and my eyeballs felt like they were going to asplode so I'm not doing that again for a while :3
daring hedge
thank you! i hope your eyes get well soon 
bronze viper
Lol, I managed to make it to Elysium on 40 with my left eye closed and right eye squinting, but I turned off my switch there. My other eye is in a month so it'll be a long break probably.
hollow lynx
daring hedge
🔫 
dusa says let your eye heal or else
bronze viper
Yes ma'am 🔫
mossy zinc
okay, question for actually good shield players: thoughts on charged shot
i kinda hate it, and idk if that’s a controversial opinio
@edgy arrow I really don't like it.
bronze viper
I liked it a lot more on the old Chaos Shield.
You lose mobility, and your positioning matters a lot more for damage.
cerulean frigate
it's a lot of damage but it just doesn't feel natural on shield
thorn cape
Chaos shield just throws more after bull rush right??? What's so great about that?
honest kernel
You get a lot of special hits
thorn cape
with status effects ig it'd be more dangerous right?
honest kernel
And shield special scales well on most boons, since it's initially a single hit
cerulean frigate
it's a pretty natural rhythm to bull rush -> special
honest kernel
^ that too
cerulean frigate
it doesn't feel awkward at all
honest kernel
Bull rush in, Shotgun peeps with special
true fable
special just does very nice damage with any flat damage boon thats not hangover
honest kernel
Rinse and repeat
thorn cape
alr I'll try that then, lol lucifer aspect spam is my fav but it's so cheesed
tidal flame
@daring hedge bro that EM4 fight was so spicy. So many close calls with the pots and lasers.
Smart move to pause the game and watch for footsteps though
If you got hit at any point that's probably it huh
daring hedge
yeah lol, that moment where his laser somehow hit the pot right behind the pillar freaked me out
but taking 38 damage twice was much better than the full 150 from the urn
tidal flame
Yeah. Watching you dodge laser and pots was something else.
Also Cerberus was kinda mean huh
daring hedge
right? those circles were inescapable up there
honest kernel
So it's not just me then
Dashes away from circles "Alright I'm safe"
Another one spawns where my dash ends
"Frick"
true fable
seeing what mistakes you make gives me some reassurance that you dont have to be absolute cybernetic robogamer to beat ultra high heat
still insane dont get me wrong
honest kernel
With Stubborn Defiance abuse, Lasting Consequences, one of the possibly worst modifiers ever, becomes manageable
While playing to dodge isn't hard, doing so while being fast becomes REALLY hard
true fable
yeah i think SD makes me feel ok when i take 25 dmg from a trap in tartarus
obviously not ideal but not the end of the world
daring hedge
yeah, being allowed to make a bunch of mistakes across normal encounters is just so nice
which i guess wouldn't be the case with RI4 
true fable
whoever can do 50+ heat is insane tbh
mossy zinc
More praise please. 
ripe crane
dodge
true fable
now people will think lambent plume is good
ripe crane
Now people will know lambent plume is good 😎
honest kernel
#Blursed
cerulean frigate
what's the "decathlete" title for a run for?
daring hedge
win streak of 10, pretty sure
true fable
i got that a few runs ago and could not figure out why
cerulean frigate
im kind of surprised i got a 10 streak with forced overtime 2 on for those
could this be this improvement people speak of?
ripe crane
Gonna move over here @edgy arrow
edgy arrow
oh yeah makes sense
true fable
tailesque do you go after anything different when you optimize rama for speed vs ultra high heat
cerulean frigate
on another note, thicc rats are spooky when they are speeder + double damage
ripe crane
47 is nice, but I only picked it because the highest I could find on the sheet was 46. That was 89.2% dodge. If you can get that much, or preferably higher, you can beat pretty much any heat as long as you don't time out
cerulean frigate
big chomp
tidal flame
ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
edgy arrow
the hard part is staying alive until you get the dodge tho
mossy zinc
now people will think lambent plume is good
I was already thinking that.
honest kernel
Pog
ripe crane
Well, that's kind of any run isn't it? Staying alive until you get a decent build together?
cerulean frigate
lambent plume is nice but have you tried owl pendant
tidal flame
i want to end my life rn
edgy arrow
also you gotta luck into high rarity hermes boons (prolly with AP) or you might be forced to actually use skill
tidal flame
nooo
daring hedge
@true fable yeah, mostly just going for hunter dash over divine dash, and taking chaos gates almost every time for speed's sake
honest kernel
Screenshot it at 'least
true fable
i have some very strange setup right now with wave of despair + passion dash because i had to take divine flourish
but hunter dash does sound better
mossy zinc
50 Heat is 50 Heat, whether it's linked on some spreadsheet or not. Don't get too worked up about it. 
honest kernel
^
edgy arrow
Well, that's kind of any run isn't it? Staying alive until you get a decent build together?
@ripe crane touché i guess
daring hedge
@tidal flame woah nice, which aspect?
edgy arrow
he was working on dem iirc?
tidal flame
dem
honest kernel
Nice
daring hedge
ez!!
Believes in you
ripe crane
Getting to Hades at 50, with no EM4? That's so impressive already. Time to bring it home
tidal flame
did I say no EM4?
ripe crane
uh oh
tidal flame
i messed up
xD
got to phase 3 at least
oh well
was wondering how I got to styx within 13 mins
that explains it
post mortem
tidal flame
I take what I was given brother
edgy arrow
fair
wasn’t sure if it was some super pro strat i wasn’t aware of lol
let you get heart rend at least
tidal flame
pro strat is getting lighting strike in tartarus and deadlt flourish in asphodel
i don't care what people say, I believe deadly flourish is a must on demeter on high heat
edgy arrow
i can believe it
honest kernel
To be fair, Passion dash is kind of a fine pick now with the buffs
Not on the top by any means, but not something that you just pick because it happens to be epic and you plan to sell later
Which, for some runs, might still happen lol
tidal flame
would love divine dash
but I never get it anymore
and I need deadly flourish in asphodel
ripe crane
So pick athena in tartarus
honest kernel
Don't you need like Artemis special ASAP on Demeter fist ?
In Asphodel, I could see it
tidal flame
I survive just fine with lightning strike in tartarus
honest kernel
... wow ok
tidal flame
deadly strike is mainly for bosses in elysium and hades himself
honest kernel
Fair enough
ripe crane
Y'all. I really used Poseidon aid for the first time today. It is actually very good.
honest kernel
Wait a minute
Doesn't the game literally place you in a run that starts you off with Poseidon Aid
tidal flame
yeah
honest kernel
And you don't have a choice in the matter ?
tidal flame
it does
in fact, that would the very first call you get
you don't even have the call slot prior to that event
honest kernel
For real tho, it's a decent chunk of damage
thorn cape
tidal dash with hermes extra dashes is better than the poseidon call imo
cerulean frigate
That run is so long ago for a lot of people. And when you first get a call it's not like you're gonna remember to use it constantly.
honest kernel
And honestly, I might consider picking it up for my Zeus shield runs
And, more importantly, Poseidon has a boon that mega-boosts the duration of the call AND pulls foes in
It's actually insane for rooms
But uh you could also do the same with breaking wave so LOL
Altho you have a decent call for bosses so yeah
Gonna have to mess around with that a bit
Poseidon/Zeus/Athena trio
Athena for dash/death defiances, Zeus for special, Poseidon for call. Get the call related stuff
ripe crane
I mean I like, actually used it a lot on purpose
honest kernel
Billowing Strenght, Proud Bearing (For rooms), the Poseidon boon I mentionned earlier and Boiling Point for bosses
ripe crane
Was doing 700 a hit at the end with nothing but the aid and Zeus buff
and it can double hit bosses? And you're invulnerable? that's wack
honest kernel
Considering it's what, 2 hits per second ? That's great DPS
With the extra duration on the Poseidon call buff boon, it's 3 hits per lesser call
And it just lasts forever on max call
Yeah ok I'm totally gonne see if that works out in a practise run, since I could start Zeus special and branch in that path if I see Poseidon Call
true fable
most calls seem to scale really well with poms too but i need to look at the actual numbers
honest kernel
Athena call scaling is fantastic for the first few levels
Poseidon and Zeus are good jumps
true fable
artemis call
honest kernel
Ares is honestly somewhat underwhelming ? Maybe the math shows otherwise
true fable
nah blade rifts bad
honest kernel
Dio is decent too
Demeter too slow
Even with artic blast
I think that's every non-sigil call
Oh yeah, Aphrodite.
Don't need to count that one
mossy zinc
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gm04kroX-p7lMNSmNcFdKCw4mmff-5i83QsKVwOBNDA/edit?usp=sharing
honest kernel
So with just a common Poseidon call, no poms, it's 250 damage per hit
true fable
i kept getting 4 sacked while speedrunning and thought it was a sign to go back to 36 heat tries
and i literally got a 5 sack my first 36 heat run back
honest kernel
oof
honest kernel
What aspect
honest kernel
5 minutes for the rooms yikes
You are literally on overtime
lmao
Good luck either way
Side note : What the chirp is that second page on that spreadsheet, for the Dio Greater Call LOL
Looking at le spreadsheet, assuming you run no other hanghover debuffs, and can actually get all the procs, Dio's Lesser Call outdamages Poseidon's, while Poseidon's greater call slaps Dio's by a long shot
That's actually good to know
true fable
it wasnt close non EM4 dad gets melted by ME
honest kernel
Noice
So I'm thinking like
Zeus aspect of shield. Aphro attack, Artemis special, Dio call.
You get to work out many duos to boost the special and/or the call
And slapping other gods into the mix can be good, for the most part
Moar testing to do
Or even better, Zeus special instead of Artemis, and you go Smoldering Air
Smoldering Air on Dio call sounds insane
Ok I'm done theory-crafting stuff, gonna figure stuff out for OBS
twilit orbit
note that dio's greater call is much worse than just using his lesser call 4 times
also one advantage/disadvantage of dio's call is that it doesnt lock you out of other actions or make you invulnerable
so you can stack hangover with dio call and still deal damage with your normal buttons at the same time, resulting in higher dps
but you also need to pay attention and dodge things still instead of just being a big invincible ball
honest kernel
Thankfully, shield is great at just blocking stuff
And needs all the damage it can get
true fable
i forgot to turn of SD for a spear run when i turned off LC
but honestly
this isnt the worst thing in the world
since i suck at spear
cerulean frigate
Well that was a terrifying sequence of decisions. Charon fight? sure, im playing with no TD for now. easy. i take the gold and remember fo2 is on and i have no athena dash
instant regret
true fable
yikes
did he paddle you
also after my fourth win at 32 heat with 0:00 on the timer i have accepted that tight deadline is a social construct
unreal pasture
something about this spread sheet looks wrong? =D$8*1.7 artemis EHP? (Or 100 * 1.7)
Shouldn't this be 100 * 3 * .65? for 195?
Or wait... I guess maybe that's even wrong, .35 * 3 * 100, + 100? w/e
true fable
1.7 is the multiplier taking into account crit chance i believe
unreal pasture
.35 to do +200%, I think yeah, ok
unreal pasture
So 1.7 seems like that is the right factor
true fable
doesn't matter that column is just there to show that artemis call is irrelevant
unreal pasture
I guess it just seemed shockingly bad ... and something seemed wrong
true fable
yep haha
unreal pasture
Oh, wildly disagree but meh... I think her call is great, but for an odd reason... the backstab can multiply
Which makes for higher results... but 🤷♂️
true fable
to each their own
unreal pasture
Yeah, I bounce around between whether her call is bad/good... I like it a lot now though, but thought it was quite bad before
true fable
i used to like it just to activate call based buffs based on lesser call but the difference is pretty negligible for most of those boons
unreal pasture
Even the Zeus damage one?
true fable
billowing strength activates for 15 seconds i believe
if thats the one you're talking about
unreal pasture
It would seem like you're getting an actual damage multiplier with crit (+22%dmg, then possibility of crits for +66%)
Yeah, that one
But only on a crit
It seemed like that's how it worked for Artemis + Eris as well
cerulean frigate
Artemis' Aid: mathematically a bad call
Artemis Aid apologists: I don't believe the numbers because the numbers on screen were big
unreal pasture
Well... this math doesn't contain the possibility of backstab... and that spikes it a lot...
If you want bad calls, check Demeter call 😂
But that's pretty straight forward
And you can't really underestimate burst... because it can push you through certain phases you simply don't want to do on bosses (Hades)
But I think most people find the add phase more difficult than phase 2?
cerulean frigate
phase 2 is easier than phase 1 on em4
unreal pasture
Yea
cerulean frigate
other than sometimes doggo rng wombo combo
unreal pasture
And it's hard (or maybe impossible) to have a greater call in phase 1
Unless you get some weird aoe'ing/stacking hits or Athena gauge stuff
mossy zinc
It's still pretty trash with backstabs unless you get backstab boons from Master Chaos.
unreal pasture
There's expose as well, but 🤷♂️
base 100->150, then the potential to crit on that 150
cerulean frigate
exposed is only 50-75% and first upgrade is only another 20%
mossy zinc
Getting a Greater Call in phase 1 is very doable depending on your aspect.
mossy zinc
Yeah, but you have to get a bunch of stuff on it just to pull even with other calls.
unreal pasture
Yea... tremendous upside, but I would just bank on more guaranteed buffs, like the mirror trait? Shadowy presence?
mossy zinc
The potential to crit on 150 lol... that's still trash damage for a lesser call.
It's good in certain builds, but it's pretty niche.
unreal pasture
Yea, still below the others even on a crit
Yeah... I think of it only for the utility of instantly getting out of a boss phase
Since it's so much burst it can almost be compared to another companion summon like a Maegara
🤷♂️
But yeah, I usually don't lesser call on Artemis, if I pick her up
mossy zinc
Aphrodite's Aid does that and more.
unreal pasture
Yeah... I usually wind up lesser calling on her to dodge damage though
ripe crane
46 is really the highest blade run we have huh. And highest Achilles spear. I'm just never going to get to stop running 47 heat
wintry sluice
i'm always astounded when i see that heat 52 hades spear
i'm struggling like hell at heat 43 with spear, got hades down to half in second phase is the closest i've gotten with any of the spears
waxen relic
Heat 52 Hades Spear? I thought 50 was the record so far?
mossy zinc
Tailesque did 52 during Early Access.
waxen relic
ahh okay
ripe crane
Wish I knew more about early access. Like I'm sure those Chaos records aren't possible anymore. Idk about anything else
loud coral
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/759541019871019010/773591668418674698/image0.jpg Been trying 40 heat for a bit now, anything I should change here?
tidal flame
Looks good. I would skip the DC1 for one point in either HL or HS.
loud coral
Usually the dash boon is enough to make it not matter as much, still kinda wary of HS as of now
Does Sure Footing reduce just the HS penalty or the base trap damage?
If so then I’ll probably swap DC for HS
tidal flame
HS had a learning curve of a couple of runs. Once you are sniped enough time by arrows or falling axes you learn not to do that again.
loud coral
True, I’ll probably just use it and see how the run goes. Thanks
tidal flame
Does Sure Footing reduce just the HS penalty or the base trap damage?
This idk. Though I wouldn't count on Sure Footing to save me.
cerulean frigate
it's a very large damage reduction even at common rarity
it's the difference between "oof" and "wow i just instantly died very cool"
at epic dad's urns only hit for 15
ripe crane
Sure footing reduces damage after HS is taken into consideration.
Normal spike trap = 5
HS Spike = 25
HS Spike with common sure footing = 25 - (25*60%) = 10.
lavish cliff
what counts as "high heat" for the purpose of this channel?
cinder cave
32 is where people start... roughly. 40+ is where leaderboards start. But people use this loosely
it's more to segment serious hades from more newbie-friendly advice
since you know, some advice for low heat just doesn't apply to high heat and vice versa
if you're pushing 20+ nobody's gonna complain if you come here seeking advice and builds
lavish cliff
Yeah that's exactly what I'm here for
lol
I'm ready to try 32 heat
The problem I've had is that I've avoided forced overtime like the plague. The faster attack speed just screws me up
cinder cave
You need to practice FO
If you're planning to keep pushing heat
it just takes some getting used to
mossy zinc
I'd definitely say for most aspects, 32 is easier with FO0 than FO2.
honest kernel
You can always just try FO1 and build up to FO2
Depending on your weapon and playstyle, I find FO1 to be mostly palatable
mossy zinc
It's one of those things, though, where the better you are at FO2, the more benefit you get from FO0.
honest kernel
True, true
It can often be better to just suffer the harder path to make it like taking off your training weights when you lower it
daring hedge
except FOzero hades spins where i dodge way too early 
honest kernel
ripe crane
Last time I tried non-EM4 I died despite having like 900 total HP. Too much muscle memory, not enough actual thinking.
mossy zinc
@daring hedge I had a Guan Yu High Confidence run today on stream where I got hit by 3 FO0 spins back to back and just died 3 times in a row. 
honest kernel
ripe crane
I thought you were just supposed to stand on the other side of the room and chuck spears with GY
cinder cave
@mossy zinc overconfidence is a slow quick and insidious killer
mossy zinc
@ripe crane Special > Dash-Strike x2 > repeat.
Same rotation as Nemesis now that I think of it.
But somehow a lot more fun.
ripe crane
Oh yeah the fixed/improved dash strike, haven't tried that. I don't think gy will ever be for my but it sounds like you're digging it?
gaunt fiber
overconfidence is a
slowquick and insidious killer
@cinder cave
true fable
nemesis feels very braindead sometimes
at least with arthur you think about where you set up holy ground n stuff
nemesis is literally dash strike go brrr
gaunt fiber
Yeah I feel the same
bronze viper
Feels pretty big brain until you get Divine Dash and Greatest Reflexes, and you can just deflect through the game without concern lol.
My issue with Nemesis isn't the brain size required to play it, it's that it doesn't feel like a weapon without Double Edge.
gaunt fiber
whispers in GY charged skewer
bronze viper
At least you're still very far away. And GY has Serrated Point too, which I haven't tried yet but sounds find in principle.
Bow had the same issue pre-1.0, where it was Twin Shot or bust
trim sigil
Still rather slow because you need to die multiple times
overconfidence is a
slowquick and insidious killer
tidal flame
Steps on Hades' pot
How quickly the tide turns!
ripe crane
I am so bad at the furies fight it hurts
true fable
ok i know i should not have taken DC2 at heat 36 with poseidon sword
last time i did it i think i got lightning phalanx which balanced it out sort of
but this time i may be less lucky
gaunt fiber
I am so bad at the furies fight it hurts
@ripe crane I thought I was alone lol
cinder cave
Is it just me or
Furies fights with EM1 is actually a legit difficulty spike
and then you're like Lernie wut
the entirety of act 2 kinda feels easier than furies shrug
true fable
yeah i mostly take EM1 just to get to EM2
i was hoping for alecto to just put me out of my misery but tight deadline + a room full of unarmored witches did it for me
i swear
the game senses
ripe crane
I have used a call to finish off Lernie 90% of the time lately because one hit from anything will kill me.
gaunt fiber
Lernie is tough too not gonna lie
true fable
lernie difficulty scales super rough with FO too imo
cinder cave
yeah i'd noticed FO changes threat level of things
gaunt fiber
yeah
ripe crane
Once I turned on HL and started coming after me with those fast slams it got scary
cinder cave
i'm actively happy when I see asterius miniboss fight for Fo
gaunt fiber
I'm running HL max with FO2 with GY. I'll go for another setup, it's just too much
ripe crane
That seems like the worst possible choice
daring hedge
I have used a call to finish off Lernie 90% of the time lately because one hit from anything will kill me.
used meg in this exact situation recently
just did not want to risk it
especially with blue lernie head slam circles
true fable
very small reaction window with those circles
my favorite thing is when the three mini heads all spawn on one island in phase 2
and all do the headbob
very cool
ripe crane
Right? It's always when my setup is really good too, and I just get greedy on the rest of the fight, step in lava a couple times, take a hit or two and I'm almost dead before I know it.
daring hedge
blue miniheads immediately doing the slam if you're too close when they emerge 😔
yeah exactly
ripe crane
Then the rest of the fight is me being on pins and needles, realizing I could've played 5% more patiently and been in a much better position
daring hedge
i always treat the yellow head dart projectiles as "whatever" until i actually get hit by one and truly realize that only two more of those would end the run
same with BP dracons lol
ripe crane
Just dash at them. You do have Athena dash, right?
daring hedge
typically happens during down time (charging power shots)
or just off guard, etc
also don't always get divine dash early into asphodel
ripe crane
That sounds like a reset to me
daring hedge
i mean, i'm glad i didn't or else 56 wouldn't have happened last night
ripe crane
Probably why I don't have a 56 then
daring hedge
i only really reset in situations where TD gets out of hand. otherwise there are ways to pull a run through
ripe crane
Ya I generally try not to completely bail, unless I've just gotten a bunch of useless boons and/or time is irredeemable
ripe crane
I'm not sure attempts would be very accurate. I imagine they had dozens of resets at a time when seeded was the way to play
true fable
what would be a situation where you would consider TD out of hand
ive been up to 2 minutes behind and somehow lived but that was also with DDs
daring hedge
it's kind of a feel-it-out thing in conjunction with how the build is doing currently. if i'm about to run out of time in elysium and haven't gotten to the champs yet, reset. if i nearly went overtime in tartarus, got terrible boons because of AP into asphodel, reset
that sort of thing
true fable
makes sense
gaunt fiber
AP must be so frustrating
true fable
yep i tried doing AP1 aiming for an ME build
ended up with slicing shot and athena call
daring hedge
though there are runs where i push through anyways against all odds and it either comes out okay or i get close
daring hedge
such as doing 57 attempts and making it to hades with a single dash because hermes never helped out
or making it through to styx at 56 without an attack boon the entire time
true fable
pain
gaunt fiber
multiple dash is mandatory to you ?
daring hedge
not really, just makes things incredibly difficult, especially at EM4
gaunt fiber
yeah that double spin
cinder cave
I can only imagine EM4 at 50+ heat
daring hedge
doing 57 with RI3, the plan is generally get through tartarus with one dash (which isn't that hard) and hope for dashes in asphodel or an earlier shop sometimes
true fable
multiple dash probably feels much nicer when you have to play with 1 dash otherwise
LOL
true fable
i also imagine single dash feels worse for M&K
a lot of the time i have to do multi dashes to get the angle that i want on keyboard
ripe crane
It's insane how big of a difference extra dashes makes for EM4
daring hedge
yeah, it's a huge safety net
gaunt fiber
Is Guan Yu even possible at such high heat ?
daring hedge
56? hard to say. 50? for sure
daring hedge
people have gotten close
loud coral
The lifesteal still works with LC4 right?
daring hedge
@true fable if i ever lose runs naturally due to damage in elysium, it's almost always packs of speeder greatshields lol
unreal pasture
So, kind of random question to the people that have completed the high heat runs... how many runs vs completions are there? IE: What's an average winrate? I've been playing high heat and just grinding probably 50 runs... so I'm curious how much experimentation goes on
Specifically, another question, how often do you Shackle to get time in TD3 in Tartarus? If ever?
loud coral
- Depends on luck and experiencereally, getting used to a heat makes all the difference at the end of the day
- Usually I take Athena to get the extra SDs as fast as possible, but I sometimes take Shackle if I don't really need Athena
ripe crane
I tried shackle for a little bit and quickly discovered that building up boons towards your goal is much more important. You can get through Tartarus almost all of the time without it
gaunt fiber
I never thought about shackle
true fable
seems to go in plateaus for me
gaunt fiber
That's a nice idea, but I think I would prefer boons
true fable
rarely lose at 32 for some weapons now but 40 i get smacked around
im sure 40 will feel ok at some point and then 44 or smth will be awful
unreal pasture
Yea, it wasn't a question of getting out of Tartarus with it... but I still am struggling in Tartarus in heat 50+...
But to push much, much more time with shackle ... If I don't put on DC I can get out sometimes with still like 2:30 left
daring hedge
yeah, shackle is a short-term answer to a problem that prefers something long-term, especially at high heat
unreal pasture
That seems/feels like a massive timesaver
Mmk, yeah. You don't have your attack boon which is a problem
But i was playing with no choice on boon the uh... AP2
Just because I was suicide grinding, I don't need to make choices... just practicing mechanics
daring hedge
missing out on being able to slot in a god of your choice is a sacrifice that's not worth it, for tartarus
unreal pasture
Yeah, there's another thing implicit to what you're saying is that the god may not even appear in the run until you pick the keepsake as well...
true fable
side note is dem uppercut a trap? feels dangerous to uppercut some enemies especially with FO2
daring hedge
you wanna do dash-uppers mostly
loud coral
^
unreal pasture
More dmg, save time, save life 🤷♂️
loud coral
The normal special isn't worth it unless you have something like Quake Cutter
Plus if you get Explosive Upper (which you should), the Dash-Upper is just always better
daring hedge
it's not that your idea of shackle is inherently a bad idea really, just that at high heat that keepsake tradeoff is not worth it
true fable
at the end of the day the game is big rng
if you do enough shackle tartarus runs
you will get a run with the boons you want
just seems like a reset fest
daring hedge
pretty much, yeah
true fable
if i see athena in a shop
gaunt fiber
you guys reset a lot ?
daring hedge
yes
true fable
nut
unreal pasture
Well... yeah, that's where the run consistency question was leading you
It feels like high heat is just a reset fest, anyway
You're just kind of shifting the RNG ever so slightly based on your modifiers picked
daring hedge
not really
mostly a trying and getting as far as you can fest
with some resets here and there
for unseeded anyway
true fable
im sure exactly 0 people were wondering but quick recovery heals on LC4
loud coral
Quick Recovery is more damage reduction than anything else
Also is Draining Cutter supposed to not heal anything on LC4? Seems more like an oversight to me
unreal pasture
SD is good in high heat
true fable
cursed slash heals though righ
unreal pasture
If you're just doing TD3 though, I don't think you need Stubborn Defiance to play fast... but you can trade life/defiances for speed
It's when you're turning on LC that you can start using it every room as a minor heal
daring hedge
is Stubborn Defiance good for high heat or just a bait
@cinder cave legitimately good haha
counters LC4, allows you to make plenty of mistakes in regular encounters, etc.
the main caveat is you have to really be on your a-game during bosses
which is a good thing, in the end
unreal pasture
And buying Touch of Styx pushes the "minor heal" up a slight margin... and stuff kills you in like two hits
cinder cave
@daring hedge thank you for your insight
but I misspoke
Stubborn roots
not Stubborn Defiance xD
daring hedge
stubborn roots is pretty bad at high heat outside of like, routed runs it seems
daring hedge
people who pretty much manipulate the rng to get optimal rooms and rewards throughout the run, as far as they can control
there was some early access routed run for high heat that basically routed all through elysium and had stubborn roots
cinder cave
you can manipulate runs deep into the 30s chambers wise?
daring hedge
i'm not an expert on routing because i don't do it, but basically several things can roll your rng forward, like using your summon before a door, casting in front of a door, breaking pots, etc.
cinder cave
beyond just Dark Foresight?
REALLY
that's insane
so it's basically similar to seed manipulation in say slay the spire
you could just reload your room and manipulate your seed like that
gaunt fiber
Yeah I watched a stream once
the guy was casting at doors and that how I learned about that
gaunt fiber
you can get pretty far with that but man that's a lot of work is'nt it
cinder cave
jeez
that sounds like a) a pain in the behind and b) kinda cheesey
but you know, optimisation is optimisation
ripe crane
Y'all ever half a phase 3 away from victory and then step on an HS pot?
cinder cave
I know HS is 1 heat that is ofc everything for high heat records, but I do detest the fact that it's only 1 heat.
I wish it were 2 levels of heat
daring hedge
as amir would say
cinder cave
300%/500%
daring hedge
"just take off HS"
ripe crane
I probably should have. I actually stepped on two pots that fight and I'm only ad HL4. 47 Achilles was right there 😦
cinder cave
To me it doesn't feel proportional to the other heat available but
I'm sure other people will disagree
ripe crane
I don't think anyone will disagree lol
twilit orbit
HS is a trap to take for the large majority of players imo
daring hedge
it's true, for example nyaanyaa thinks high heat AP2 is fun
twilit orbit
but when you're pushing really high heats you have to take it for the extra heat
daring hedge
which is an opinion shared by... nobody i think
ripe crane
^^^ decisions are hard
cinder cave
tbf, if you're used to a game like STS, you just learn to ride the RNG
which is where AP2 kinda is acceptable
daring hedge
i think AP2 is fine specifically at low heat, because you can roll with whatever usually
but at high heat you don't have that luxury
ripe crane
I'd play AP2 with 5 heat
gaunt fiber
pretty good
gaunt fiber
yeah
twilit orbit
well STS A20 you can have really high win rates still if you're really really good at the game
whereas nobody has done max heat in this game yet
gaunt fiber
of course you are
cinder cave
seriously though
I love that game. And I love the community of content creators there
and I'm starting to warm up in the same way to Hades
daring hedge
A20 doesn't really have as many... incredibly tough modifiers interacting in unison as 63 heat hades
gaunt fiber
yeah people are nice here
daring hedge
like RI4 and AP2 etc.
twilit orbit
iirc lifecoach has a 90+% win rate on A20
twilit orbit
but he's also ridiculously good at card games
cinder cave
it's way more RNg
like
20000x more RNG
lifecoach is really that good at card games
but I remember this tournament
literally would take 1:30
to play a braindead move in Gwent
twilit orbit
slay the spire unlocked his true power level because there is no rope in a single player game
cinder cave
and I played in a tourney with him
daring hedge
yeah, i've only done ironclad A20 but i can imagine how that would work out with it being a deck builder with mostly random draw etc.
cinder cave
and all of his swiss opponents hated him
because they were ladder fiends
and were used to 5 min games
:)
twilit orbit
if you watch his slay the spire streams
his average run takes over five hours
but he also rarely loses even on A20
cinder cave
Lifecoach
will outnerd you
I promise you that
He may not outskill you or outheat you
but his nerdgasm clock manipulation will drive you insane
daring hedge
his average run takes over five hours
i was about to say "time to play 63 heat like this" but TD3 explicitly prohibits that
cinder cave
whoops
unreal pasture
I like AP2... kind of? Forces you back to basics of run 1 where you can't control any of your boon/god rng
So it's kind of like being a new player again
lul
twilit orbit
this is probably really cheating but you could spend an hour+ playing TD3 if you pause buffered every move
unreal pasture
"I have no idea what I'm doing, so I'll pick this random boon"
daring hedge
just play high heat like chess
cinder cave
@twilit orbit but is that fun
unreal pasture
The Hammers are insanely frustrating on AP though
daring hedge
a lot of the reason why AP2 high heat is so awful is because getting totally irrelevant boons will surely make you die from TD3, because you need good damage
cinder cave
from what i've seen a lot of successful runs seem to dump all their poms into one win condition boon
I imagine that's a fairly efficient high heat strategy?
daring hedge
depends on the aspect or boon, really
daring hedge
for example, dumping a bunch of poms into deadly strike rama isn't going to really do much, despite deadly strike itself being integral to the run
cinder cave
so support boons are more key? I'm not very good at Rama yet
twilit orbit
well its mostly because deadly strike scales relatively poorly with poms
cinder cave
yeah I've noticed that
daring hedge
a solid core attack boon and good hammers are the most important parts
cinder cave
hunter dash adds more than deadly strike for example
twilit orbit
but if you get poms you might as well put them somewhere, and sometimes deadly strike still gives you the highest damage boost
daring hedge
i mean yeah, that's why i said it depends on the boon
cinder cave
yeah i've seen a lot of cast builds having lvl 15+ poms
twilit orbit
yeah I've really noticed that the core attack boon is one of the most important things to get
cinder cave
also ME with insane doom poms
twilit orbit
which is why forcing a god keepsake in tartarus is so common
ripe crane
Poms suk, gimme hp. Me want big number.
twilit orbit
most weapons just perform a lot better when you get their attack of choice
cinder cave
they're usually good foundations to build from right
branching to T2 and duo
and ensures you have enough dps to kill rooms efficiently
twilit orbit
poms are good with cast builds
because they increase the base damage of the cast
which scales with percent modifiers
poms on attack/special only increase the percent modifier
daring hedge
yeah, getting cast damage % from chaos can be a big deal
as well as extra casts, of course
twilit orbit
or your aspect has cast damage% built into it
cinder cave
when i highroll exit wounds
twilit orbit
which also multiplies pom scaling
cinder cave
and ofc chaos boon for cast
is this sort of approach still viable for pushing 40+
?
daring hedge
needless to say achilles cast builds get nuts for these reasons
cinder cave
yah the % on achilles is basically unrivalled
daring hedge
yeah you could definitely do a poseidon aspect cast build at 40
40 is surprisingly flexible still
cinder cave
that surprises me, but as a 1.0 kid I'll take your word for it
aiming to hit 32 pretty soon but
still getting used to LC4
daring hedge
yeah, i guess i shouldn't say it like that because 40 is still plenty restrictive lol
cinder cave
well ofc
daring hedge
just, compared to 50 it's huge though
cinder cave
it's 40/63(64)
50 has almost no flexibility
i'm starting to consider that I should just 10 heat EM4 to practice it
daring hedge
if you're planning on climbing heat and eventually doing it with EM4 on, i'd recommend doing those lower heat EM4 runs with FO2 active
cinder cave
FO2? so 16 heat EM4
daring hedge
don't wanna get used to FO0 EM4 and get blindsided by FO2 EM4 much later
cinder cave
sure, thanks for the tip
I can totally imagine that
FO0 feels like a cinch
after playing FO1
actually can farm my sword and fist runs on that heat
true fable
i might just practice FO2 EM4 with SD on at minimum heat
feels hard to climb up in the 40s without EM4
cinder cave
Tbf if the main aim is to climb, might as well turn it on as early as possible I say
daring hedge
yeah, my hades and demeter 50s were RI2 and no EM4
true fable
jeez
RI2 with all the other pacts just sounds miserable to me
i think i need to be less picky about builds
dark foresight abuser btw
cinder cave
dark foresight is good, everyone's an abuser :P
daring hedge
yeah, it's basically trading harder finale for harder everything else, which is kind of worth it to me for most melee aspects, given how tough high heat EM4 is
true fable
that's true
even on most of my dem fists right now EM3 really feels like the climax of the run
everything after that feels like exhaling
cinder cave
how do people feel about DC2?
true fable
heavily aspect dependent
cinder cave
can you expand on that please?
true fable
if you look at my earlier messages
for example
i did poseidon sword with dc2
since poseidon is cast reliant
that sucks
cinder cave
so yeah
true fable
on the other hand something like eris rail
true fable
does not care about DC at all
daring hedge
an aspect like arthur really wants to avoid it, because of slow, big hits
north dove
Agh another 50 heat attempt thwarted by a final phase pot
true fable
arthur would probably prefer CP2 to DC huh
daring hedge
honestly yeah
cinder cave
so you'd look for a different heat setup
true fable
@north dove you'll get it
cinder cave
to complement its strengths
true fable
how did you do poseidon sword with DC1 retrash
cinder cave
and address its weaknesses
true fable
i dont get it
daring hedge
which aspect was that 50? poseidon sword again?
north dove
I've been running AP2 now instead of RI2 and I find it a lot better for some reason
yeah
true fable
tartarus feels especially rough for me on poseidon sword with DC
feels like im just using budget nemesis
cinder cave
thank you for your input both
daring hedge
sometimes the play with swords that aren't nemesis is to build a budget nemesis
source: my arthur 46
north dove
Poseidon feels much safer than nemesis against EM4 hades cause you can just chuck casts instead of having to stay melee range the whole time
daring hedge
which cast have you been running?
north dove
Athena mostly
true fable
do you mostly just play like normal sword in tartarus
and use casts against big guys/bosses
ripe crane
The final phase pots are out to get us today
true fable
high heat has at least made me very good at doing 30% in my head
ripe crane
I don't bother doing the math. Just take the thing with the biggest number
true fable
i mean for suiciding
lament relic
Is there a lower droprate for Athena and Aphrodite and higher heat levels?
ripe crane
no
honest kernel
All gods are equally as likely as far as I know
... Even tho you wouldn't want some on most of your runs
cough Demeter in high heat cough
true fable
i finally got 6/6 at 32
i would like to thank anyone i bothered about spear
it is no longer my least favorite weapon
side note you have enough time to go grocery shopping during athena greater call this thing lasts so long
true fable
i want to see someone get greater call and then just sit there with vengeful mood
north dove
One more death to phase 3 of dad 😦
true fable
EM4 dad demands blood sacrifice
north dove
I might use the increased brightness strat at this point
edgy arrow
i actually haven’t turned on EM4 in weeks
my phobia of that fight is started to become a problem
true fable
my next goal is definitely to overcome my fear of ultradad
i remember when i first came in here i was asking help with like heat 16
and i was running FO2, TD, and EM4 LOL
cold prism
haha thats what I was doing when I first unlocked the fights too, I was like yea new content I'm gonna leave these on for good
loud coral
I mean on low-mid heats UltraDad isn't that bad but once you're hitting the 30s and 40s he'll do your full health bar in 5 seconds
It's more just practicing at the end of the day though, I'll probably just try and get comfy with the fight
true fable
can you get parting shot on beo?
loud coral
I think so? Parting Shot is just extra backstab and cast damage so it should be possible
true fable
it's incompatible with trippy shot so i imagine it's incompatible with trippy flare
not sure though
rain sedge
I got it in beo, not using trippy flare though
north dove
Made it to Styx a few more times on 50 heat poseidon. Still no victory though, will resume tomorrow!
slow sentinel
I smacked a bunch of random skulls then fat fingered start button and now I’m doing a 31 skull run with the Excalibur stygius and I’m terrified
daring hedge
50 heat with any sword aspect is absolutely brutal, good luck with more attempts tmrw
tidal flame
Made it to Styx a few more times on 50 heat poseidon. Still no victory though, will resume tomorrow!
Also do you have EM4 on? It's real tough if your build isn't half way decent.
analog sequoia
Hey y'all. Was curious was the general consensous was for what gods are good, weapons, etc for high heat?
north dove
I do run EM4 yeah
ripe crane
I am being offered the Duo I want in chamber 4 (but it's blocked by AP 😖 ). This is the earliest I've ever seen that
nvm rerolled it again xd
tidal flame
Hey y'all. Was curious was the general consensous was for what gods are good, weapons, etc for high heat?
It's quite diverse. How high are you attempting?
honest kernel
If you activate god mode can you turn it off or are you stuck with it
tidal flame
you can turn it off yeah
honest kernel
ok cool thank you
edgy arrow
can you get parting shot on beo?
@true fable you aren’t supposed to be able to; it was supposedly removed (for beo) in the most recent patch
i’ve got it since then tho, so that obviously didn’t work lol
mossy zinc
The normal special isn't worth it unless you have something like Quake Cutter
.....
cerulean frigate
loud coral
I may have had a slight lapse in judgement
remote sun
Any general tips for getting a first 32 heat completion?
I've gotten fairly close, up to Hades's 2nd phase (I had buffed his encounter) using the railgun + aspect that boosts first shot damage and a mostly generic Artemis build
true fable
honestly just keep trying and it'll happen
maybe irl hestia god crepes might have some aspect specific tips
mossy zinc
I would personally just start with the Owl Pendant for Divine Dash and pick up either Deadly Strike or Heartbreak Strike in Tartarus if you see it.
Or force either in Asphodel if you don't.
rigid moon
Divine dash still the best dash
ripe crane
Best ability in the game I would say
sly remnant
honestly if you have the heat above 40
they should probably just give it to you as your first boon
(i'm exaggerating of course)
loud coral
I mean, you’re not entirely wrong
Usually I either get Divine Dash or settle for an attack or special then try to get the SD boons from her before Elysium
twilit orbit
is starting with divine dash the play?
normally I force my attack boon first for faster clears
and then take athena in asphodel if I dont see her in tartarus
sly remnant
thats what most people do yea
twilit orbit
i guess its much less of a problem with hestia because the base damage is so high
sly remnant
attack then divine dash
twilit orbit
you could probably do the same with arthur and be fine
sly remnant
my point was more that since the build is gonna end in divine dash no matter what i just think we should just get it
viscid imp
poggers
honest kernel
The boulder is conflicted
mossy zinc
@gaunt fiber you should turn on TD3.
mossy zinc
Yes.
ripe crane
You can turn off CP and JS entirely (or other things) and easily save that time
mossy zinc
That's 3 Heat you can take off something else.
gaunt fiber
Still need to figure out the best way to clear
I did not think about that
I'll try, thanks people 
HL maxed is really tough tho
mossy zinc
Well, you could do TD3 HL0 instead of HL3 TD2.
gaunt fiber
Yeah true, but I do need some time
honest kernel
TD at high ranks always feels daunting to me, considering how much longer it can take to clear some buffed enemies
sly remnant
just take free rooms and avoid trials (generally this isn't a hard rule). as long as your build is halfway decent you'll make it
you'll absolutely still die to timer sometimes. esp if you have EM4 on
honest kernel
That's probably my biggest issue--i have a hard time saying no to extra boons instead of picking free passes
And I should stop using EM4 lol
sly remnant
I think EM4 is build dependent
honest kernel
I just like it musically and aesthetically, even if it ruins runs
But yeah it really does vary
sly remnant
I think I am not good enough at the fight unfortunately to tell you when and when not to take it
someone better than me
mossy zinc
Dying to the timer sometimes is the price you pay for saving 3 Heat somewhere else.
sly remnant
^yep. and its frustrating but on the runs where it works...its free heat
edgy arrow
lol
ripe crane
If you don't plan on going higher than low 40s, you don't have to turn EM4 on ever. You can just forget it exists if you want and generally have more successful runs.