it’s in the game already
#h1-high-heat-strategies
edgy arrow
although it would be hilarious if you could both summon cerberus in that fight
bronze viper
I mean you can already cosplay as Dad in that fight with Sigil + Hades Aspect
edgy arrow
like, he runs across the screen one way and yeets you, then the other way and yeets dad
hades ofc would complain a lot, which would only make it better
cinder cave
when devs come back
bronze viper
Cerberus knows where the treats come from.
cinder cave
we can confront them with pickets and placards
cerulean frigate
You can summon Cerberus, but only the head that you pet
cinder cave
gief good boy companion
cerulean frigate
the other two are your enemy
cinder cave
xD
cerulean frigate
i will say though that if you get ALL sneak summons in em4 by the 2nd split
just chonk dad the rest of the way
use companion if you have to
edgy arrow
3 sneaks lmao
cerulean frigate
yeah
edgy arrow
i can’t even deal with 3 soul catchers
bronze viper
It's fine, you'll also get Greater Call from the damage you're taking
edgy arrow
...yay?
bronze viper
You take the positives where you can lol
cinder cave
does EM4 have +50% hp (from the 3rd phase)
cerulean frigate
silver lining
cinder cave
compared to non EM
edgy arrow
think how much you’ll be able to use your call after you’ve taken so much damage you’re dead
ripe crane
He doesn't start at full hp in phase 3
bronze viper
his patty buff wore off
ripe crane
But he does heal
cerulean frigate
really? i mean, it's not like i ever have had time to look at the health bar up there
cinder cave
soooo... he's around twice as tanky overall? ish?
ripe crane
So potentiality more than +50% I suppose
cerulean frigate
phase 3 is so intense
bronze viper
HIs heal is insanely strong, it's more than 50%
cerulean frigate
and yeah a bad/slow build just won't finish that fight if he heals over and over
edgy arrow
i usually run out of time if phase 1 doesn’t kill me
bronze viper
That sentence was ambiguous, I didn't mean to say that the heal itself is more than 50% lol
ripe crane
You can destroy the pots to stop the heal
cerulean frigate
autospawning pots and can't outpace the heal
edgy arrow
oh agreed
bronze viper
Some builds will just get brickwalled on Sneaks or Soul Catchers though
edgy arrow
i actually love the fight, so i’m kinda sad i can’t do it lol
bronze viper
Soul Catcher x3 is daunting for anyone.
ripe crane
You can do it! Just gotta practice.
bronze viper
Lmao, CP2 buffs his heal proportionally
cerulean frigate
yeah
edgy arrow
indeed
cerulean frigate
i think like, myabe it's reasonable with concentrated + charged volley bow on deadly flourish
edgy arrow
but practice
cerulean frigate
but relying on 1 specific hammer, let alone 2, not a great idea
bronze viper
No matter what aspect you are you're going to need great burst
cerulean frigate
rip zag sword
tidal flame
I mean with some weapons at 40+, you kinda need at least one good hammer
edgy arrow
was gonna say rip chaos, but ye
tidal flame
At least I do
ripe crane
EM4 on FO1 will be very different than FO2, my mindset is to just bite the bullet and practice them both together if you plan on doing them in real runs
tidal flame
And all the successful runs so far has at least one.
edgy arrow
not if you’re Tailesque lmao
bronze viper
He always has 1
edgy arrow
repulsive shot ftw ig
tidal flame
Not true
cerulean frigate
there's always seeding but even then, that doesn't control the rest of the run unless it's routed
bronze viper
Rama has a lot of great hammers
tidal flame
He always had triple or twinsies at least
bronze viper
Or Perfect
tidal flame
The other hammer can be whatever
edgy arrow
oh yeah at least one you’re right
cerulean frigate
i do not recommend chain shot rama, losing the piercing properties is just too big a downside imo
edgy arrow
repulsive shot was op? 😮
bronze viper
no lol
cerulean frigate
it's an ok second hammer
tidal flame
It is, it made 50+, it must be op
edgy arrow
ah
edgy arrow
ngl i can’t argue with that
bronze viper
It's not an actively detrimental second hammer, which is better than some weapons can say.
tidal flame
Something something snap nova
cerulean frigate
AP2: take hazard bomb now
bronze viper
I love Chain Shot on Chiron lol
edgy arrow
how do you aim tho
bronze viper
Just don't aim at your target, ez
edgy arrow
“just don’t aim at your target”
-ledger
cerulean frigate
chain shot chiron is pretty ok once you feel out what exactly the radius for the chain targeting is like
tidal flame
What if you just don't take chain shot and skip the extra step?
edgy arrow
idk i prolly just need more practice with it
bronze viper
I've been playing a bunch of Hangover Chiron and Chain Shot + Doom is bae
cerulean frigate
it's really gross on rama because you can't THICC through a cluster of enemies anymore
especially in Elysium/styx
and the way the projectile "hiccups" before it chains makes its aoe not really as big as a normal shot would be
bronze viper
It's also great on Rama
You will very rarely get organic 3 target hits with Rama at high heat. Usually 2 at most
cerulean frigate
i think the most interesting thing about rama is how different the run is just by what the special ends up being
bronze viper
Particularly if you have Twin or Triple, Chain Shot is fantastic as a second hammer
cerulean frigate
like, one of the problems you run into is charging call is hard even with thunder flourish
bronze viper
Twin especially, since your range is so small you're not hitting multiple targets insanely often.
cerulean frigate
drunken flourish helps a lot in that regard but you lose frontloaded damage
and dio has a lot of terrible boons 
bronze viper
Eh, if you have DC2, Thunder FLourish doesn't consistently actually even do damage
to secondary targets
cerulean frigate
it still scales better through jolted/just having a better god overall in the pool
like you can get billowing strength for example instead of after party
bronze viper
I mean, I like Positive Outlook and Vintage tbf. And if I get Dio's Aid I can look to sell Drunken Flourish
cerulean frigate
vintage and outlook are pretty good at least yeah
but i am not a fan of being offered trippy shot over and over
ripe crane
Vintage is like the only dio boon I'm ever happy for. Give me more hp. At all times. Make every room a heart
cerulean frigate
you just don't have time for lobbing on fo2
bronze viper
Lol, I recognize it's an outlier, but Trippy Shot hard carried my Rama 49 record in Blood Price.
cerulean frigate
also boiling blood
bronze viper
I got Black Out with AP2 in Tartarus
cerulean frigate
the payoff with trippy shot at the end can be really good but it takes so long to get there in practice and relies a lot on the legendary/duos
bronze viper
Oh I'm not saying it's good on Rama lmao
Oh, right, and Bad Influence, forgot about that. Rama has probably by far the easiest application of that buff
cerulean frigate
i think one of my favorite things i've watched in hades was one of haelian's high heat runs with lighting rod on an empty cast, where between dad phases where he was shielded he would throw them out and yell ROD ROD ROD
bronze viper
I hope this was pre-1.0
cerulean frigate
unsure
bronze viper
I do remember him doing this often lol
It was a meme pre-1.0 that if you ever made the mistake of having Zeus + Artemis in your pool, Lightning Rod would apply Approval Process 1 to your boons going forward
That still kind of happens now but Lightning Rod is actually good so you just take it.
cerulean frigate
how can something be good when monke brain autopilot makes me go pick up the bloodstones anyway 
bronze viper
They even tried to help by shrinking the pickup radius haha
cerulean frigate
and that's why i mostly use stygian soul
bronze viper
The best is when I have TD3 on and my brain tells me I have to pick up the bloodstones after the fight ends.
cerulean frigate
ugh yes.
ripe crane
I haven't had non-stygian on for a long time
cerulean frigate
i accidentally start some hera/achilles/posideon/etc runs before i switch back to infernal
get like 7 chambers in and go "wait a minute why do i have 1 cast"
it doesn't really help my case that i barely use cast builds to begin with
ripe crane
Same for hera and poseidon, but I actually prefer stygian on Achilles tbh. I mean you have to get an extra stone from chaos but it makes for a better run when you do
cerulean frigate
just get good rng with where the electric bolts decide to go
ez
clearly it's less optimal to bounce all in different direction in asphodel
bronze viper
It was fun watching Wriste stream last night, showing someone how to speedrun with Zeus cast on Poseidon. It felt vindicating to see someone totally flounder on how to manage getting your bloodstones back with Zeus.
cerulean frigate
it's a nightmare for me if they end up in magma
SGG colorblind friendly bloodstones when
bronze viper
Lol, yeah that happened quite a bit
They changed the particle effects on Fish too, they used to be very close to invisible in Asphodel and Elysium.
(can you still kill yourself fishing in Asphodel?)
cerulean frigate
no, you get impervious shield like what happens when you activate a barge
bronze viper
SGG appeals to filthy casuls
cerulean frigate
no guarantee you won't take a lot of damage after you catch though
didn't the impervious shield used to not happen during barge transitions as well?
bronze viper
I was really hoping Sigil of the Dead let you use Dad's bloodstones, exploding nova and all.
I didn't realize you could kill yourself on barge transitions
cerulean frigate
you can't
bronze viper
No I meant conceptually
cerulean frigate
but im pretty sure they had to add that shield
bronze viper
What do you do, like stay outside of it or something?
bronze viper
oh lmao
hollow lynx
the funny thing about that interaction is that they had to fix it twice
one for the first iteration of barge, the second for when they updated the barge's design
bronze viper
That's amazing. I'm sure the salt level of the F10s that came out of that were off the charts
ripe crane
That sounds hilarious lmao
bronze viper
This was my saltiest F10: https://imgur.com/tmbzbej
cerulean frigate
so like, that shockwave Hades does between phases
bronze viper
The Skullcrusher is literally bending reality to hit me.
cerulean frigate
is there multiple rings or something?
i've had it happen several times now where i dash through it
and then a moment later take 35
bronze viper
That's happened to me more pre-1.0 than now
I'd F10 when it happens, they get access to your save
Also be careful to not dash strike through the nova lol
cerulean frigate
i never dash strike through aoes unless TD is forcing me to go absolute ham
always punished if i do
ripe crane
Speaking of the power couple, I wanted to show this Antos double kill (breaks shield and kills with one summon), in case anyone else is still using them instead of Battie. Also I just noticed that it stopped the shockwave, not sure if it always does that or not.
https://clips.twitch.tv/BigProudWalletRlyTho
Sorry if there is a rule of some sort about posting my own clips, I am not sure how I can turn that into a gif
bronze viper
I don't think there is.
cerulean frigate
companion summons give you invulnerability and can clear some enemy attack effects im sure
like you can use meg right as the skullcrusher smushes you and you won't take damage
makes it easy to line up them both
cerulean frigate
it takes a fair bit of practice
you will whiff and get smushed a bit trying to pull it off >_>
edgy arrow
yeah i don’t use antos much but the aoe looks pretty small
cerulean frigate
but eventually it just gets pretty natural to do
edgy arrow
than might actually be easier
ripe crane
I just go stand by the dusa head to get crusher to drop on me and then summon.
I have never used Than, will he break shield and kill?
cerulean frigate
finding out about how the meg line is drawn was transformative
edgy arrow
oh sorry i meant for champions
cerulean frigate
you have so much control over it compared to some of the other summons
edgy arrow
he won’t break the shield no; it’s one hit
cerulean frigate
because Champions technically refers to mini bosses
edgy arrow
i mean, champion is the name of the grey elites that hades summons
i’ve never heard it used for minibosses
cerulean frigate
if you're playing with meg and controller at the start of the heroes fight, press up on the d pad then summon
edgy arrow
and they are, like, explicitly the champions of elysium
cerulean frigate
the line draws perpendicular to the way Zag is facing
edgy arrow
but i’ll switch to using Heroes if that’s common practice
yeah ik how to hit heroes with meg
ripe crane
If you are asking about Antos summon vs the champions, if you get Asterius to charge into Theseus, you can get Achilles/Pat to hit both of them at the same time. Usually you will just get one double hit.
cerulean frigate
the best summon in the asterius/thesius fight in em3 is to charm asterius during beyblade though tbh
edgy arrow
lol yeah
asterius is a great summon
re: antos v. heroes that seems like it would be hard to pull off consistently
cerulean frigate
antos is definitely the coolest companion/summon
thematically/the animation of it
ripe crane
I just like that it almost never misses tbh.
ripe crane
The biggest downside is that it's bad vs dad
edgy arrow
can’t you just wait until he has no summons/skulls out?
prolly targets urns as well ig lol
edgy arrow
valid
i always run FO2, and i feel like even with that there’d be opportunities in the regular fight
but i have like, zero feel for antos timing so i could be wrong
ripe crane
It doesn't target urns, but he can toss bloodstones very fast. You can use it at like the very beginning of phase 1 most of the time, but like... you really need the burst damage at the end of phase 1 when things are hectic
fluid fractal
Can I still earn the PoP 32 award after hitting the cap with a weapon?
fluid fractal
I mean Skelly's reward
edgy arrow
gl
round moss
have a question about high heat lvls. what happens when you exceed the heat lvl. do you get more rewards or is it better to do each lvl 1 at a time?
waxen relic
You just get the reward as if you were playing 1 heat at a time. It won't obstruct. You can just do what you want.
round moss
so is it better to grind each lvl 1 at a time?
plush sinew
i wouldnt say it's strictly better but it does give u time to like learn the intricacies of each punishment choice
round moss
I been trying each lvl 1 at a time as the highest lvl I got was doing 3 ranks for the challenging boss fights.
plain jasper
What's widely considered as the best way to do 32 heat?
I feel like EM4 is a big no no but it's so much heat it may be worth it, but papa has wrecked me everytime
trim sigil
EM4 definitely not worth it
waxen relic
It's not good if it bores you, it's good if you're struggling to hang on.
Its a game, you wanna enjoy it and the reward system will not punish you.
solar blade
Thanks for the tips guys, just got my first H32 Clear with Arthur!
now for the other 5 weapons 😦
cobalt herald
Any advice on the Elysium minions? They keep swarming me and rekking me
They seem to have so much health!
Heat 16
waxen relic
@plain jasper
No Em4, No RI, no AP2, prolly no FO.
The Rest you should configure how it fits you personally.
plain jasper
No FO?
I felt like that was one of the better ones
Agree with everything else tho, thx
waxen relic
That's my personal thought
If you can do with it you could do even better without it.
solar blade
I tried to get used to FO2 as early as possible as it makes going into higher heats a lot less stressful
plain jasper
Only thing about FO2 that makes me sweat a bit is the witches firing as if they were LMGs
solar blade
Athena Dodge called, they wanna reconnect @plain jasper
plain jasper
lmao
edgy arrow
If you wanna push higher than 32, you should start learning FO2 as early as possible
plain jasper
I think JS is killer with maxed out TD
edgy arrow
if you just want 32 tho FO2 might not be worth it
sly remnant
FO2 is def not worth it unless you are training for higher
sly remnant
but if you want to learn it....theres no better time than now.
bronze viper
Lol, FO1 screws with my timings too badly
edgy arrow
i honestly have no frame of reference for how fast this game is supposed to go anymore
bronze viper
But I got used to 2
edgy arrow
FO2 is standard for me lol
plain jasper
Just go all in to FO2 sooner than later
edgy arrow
lol you’re probably timing things much more precisely than me
FO1 feels like a bit of a break for me
plain jasper
What aspect y'all use for higher heat?
edgy arrow
eris is the big one
solar blade
same FO2 is just my 'standard' now, it's actually easier to read enemy attacks for me at the faster pace than on FOX because I'm always hopped up on caffiene 
plain jasper
Yeah I've been using eris but have been perishing on big daddy-o so I'm thinking of switching it up
edgy arrow
lol i got calculated risk the other day and was like, wait, EM4 hades spear toss is so slow
is this... is this how this is supposed to feel?
still lost tho cause lmao EM4
plain jasper
Man I never considered calculated risk could be good on EM4
Never pick it personally but you might have opened my eyes to a whole new strat
plain jasper
Whole lot better than stubborn roots tho
edgy arrow
stubborn roots is great?
saved more than a few runs for me
you need some spare TD time for it to work ofc
plain jasper
Really?
Personally found the regen too slow
edgy arrow
it is pretty slow, but it lets you take a few extra hits
if you play safe, it can be as good as another acorn
solar blade
1hp/s is still 1hp/s you didn't have before
edgy arrow
^
plain jasper
- frantically taking notes *
bronze viper
Lol, I wouldn't call Stubborn Roots great, but it is mostly free
edgy arrow
great might be a strong word idk
bronze viper
It is low key the secret to 64 heat though
solar blade
lets say you have some level of DR like Weak that makes Hades do 20dmg per hit. If you last 20 seconds on 0DD, thats one extra hit you can take to your lip without folding 🧠
mossy zinc
I would bet money if we had actual data on that, that every person who says FO2 is easier or free or whatever takes way more damage on FO2 than on FO0.
edgy arrow
same honestly
i don’t turn it off because it’s kinda fun, but the number of runs i’ve lost because of FO2 asterius alone is probably concerningly high
sly remnant
^ asterius is brutal
edgy arrow
i probably dodge him more than 50% of the time these days
i know that doesn’t sound like much at all, but it makes me feel like a god ngl
mossy zinc
FO0 Chariots are pretty free, FO2 Chariots have ended many a successful run.
Well, not successful obviously if they ended early.
But otherwise successful.
sly remnant
FO2 armored chariots haunt me in my dreams
mossy zinc
Slugger is worse.
sly remnant
which is slugger
mossy zinc
Double damage.
edgy arrow
shudders
edgy arrow
slugger speeder FO2 elite chariots
edgy arrow
+90% speed, +100% damage
it’s fine everything’s fine this is fine
i say, crawling out of the blood pool
ripe crane
"this run wasn't that good anyway"
wintry sluice
trying to beat heat 43 with rama. the mega gorgon fight kills me every time
edgy arrow
megagorgan is like, 80% companion timing
the remaining 20% is staying alive after you miss timed the summon
mossy zinc
No.
It is 10% luck.
20% skill.
15% concentrated power of will.
5% pleasure.
50% pain.
edgy arrow
i can see you’ve thought about this
mossy zinc
And a 100% reason to reme—ah nevermind, you'll probably die to Chariots later.
wintry sluice
lol
edgy arrow
chariots are like, the opposite of patroclus
mossy zinc
Patroclus giveth, Chariot taketh away.
edgy arrow
the cycle of life
mossy zinc
Patroclus: Here's a DD for you, stranger.
Chariot: Thanks, I'll take that.
tidal flame
someone make the "is for me?" meme
edgy arrow
it is pretty rude of Zag to try and keep all the DDs to himself
like, when you finish with 3-4 left you gotta ask yourself if someone else could have made better use of them
tidal flame
edgy arrow
this is why SD is better
he gets one revive, i get one revive
it’s fair
those extraneous DDs can go to starving orphans or something
ember bronze
Idle curiosity--do we know if there are a lot of high-heat enthusiasts other than this channel? i.e. is 40+ heat as rare as the spreadsheet makes it seem?
mossy zinc
We don't know if there are more because those are the only ones that are verified.
There probably are, though.
But you don't need to submit a run to get added. Krashercorr will just add any run he sees.
tidal flame
Yeah, but make sure Krashercorr sees it though.
Or you can submit and help out the speedrun board (once the new categories are rolled out, of course).
ember bronze
What categories are we planning?
tidal flame
I am not the official source. But the current plan seems to be Any Heat - 32 heat - 40 (?) heat - 50 heat. Everything is subject to change, of course.
They are waiting for the new update to roll those out. So soon.
ember bronze
32 seems like a good one to have
the others will be very esoteric, but of course, anything is fine to have if enough people are doing it
twilit orbit
I dont personally plan on submitting any runs
but I like the idea of any heat as the general category, 32 heat as a nice high heat breakpoint that is widely accessible, and a higher heat category for the super good players
bronze viper
For clarification, 32, 40, and 50 would be speed categories, with an Any Heat completion category?
twilit orbit
I have no stake in the matter but 50 heat seems like it would be too narrow of a category
for most people the goal of 50 heat isn't "how fast can you beat this" it's more of a "can you even beat this at all" sort of thing
ripe crane
The speedrun guy was looking for feedback yesterday (starts with J, can't remember his name) His suggestions were any/32/(40-45)/50
He was looking for feedback and what people wanted
twilit orbit
so people wouldn't be focused on speedrunning at 50 heat, they would just be trying to beat 50 heat in any way possible, and if they do they would probably submit that run
ripe crane
Not much discussion happened at that time so I'm sure he'd be happy for input from anyone
From Jerds at 7:09pm est yesterday
tidal flame
50 is supposed to be a "prestige" tier.
sly remnant
personally i like 32/40/50
40 has an actual chance to have some amount of speedrun optimization.
but even then its attainable and i'd like to see it tracked officially
sly remnant
32 is probably the one that most people will "speedrun"
its easy enough to get to 32 for people who like playing on 40+
tidal flame
apparently it was p barren pre 1.0 and we have more 40+ submission.
but I think that was due to people simply not submitting.
sly remnant
out of curiosity where are the heat leaderboards
i don't actually know and i'd like to submit my lucifer to the right spot when i finally do it
ripe crane
The closest thing we have is a pinned spreadsheet
tidal flame
it depends on what you mean by leaderboard.
https://www.speedrun.com/hades#50_Heat is a leaderboard
but the pinned spreadsheet, per the creator's own words, should not be seen as a "leaderboard," but as a showcase of what people can do in Hades. although this hasn't stopped many from calling it a "leaderboard" so ¯_(ツ)_/¯.
bronze viper
It's the best word for the concept. The more precise versions are verbose.
tidal flame
People can call it whatever they want. I personally don't mind calling it showcase so to each their own.
mossy zinc
If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck . . .
tidal flame
It can still be a human sticking feathers up their butt trying to be a duck.
sly remnant
hades is also a weird game to think of as a leaderboard
tidal flame
well, anyhow, if you are interested in submitting on either place, you now know how to.
good luck!
ember bronze
sly remnant
i did my 40 heat malphon run at EM4
daring hedge
going for merciful end every single time?
mossy zinc
ME makes sense.
ripe crane
Hamlette is here to punch the patriarchy into submission, they're not afraid of dad.
sly remnant
i just did lightning stuff and didn't worry about ME
daring hedge
it does but it gets less and less reliable as you climb heat
ember bronze
That's not like, all I'm doing in Hades, but it was yesterday's session, yeah
tidal flame
he's one patch too late for ME runs
ember bronze
I want to get it since I was so close
ME with AP1 is a pain, but there are enough times I get it together
mossy zinc
Owl Pendant is a great start either way for Malphon.
honest kernel
Is aspect of Demeter good?
ripe crane
I don't think I've ever turned on the +legendary/duos. Wonder if that is worth it over the higher chance to find perhaps an epic doom and hope to get duo anyway
tidal flame
Is aspect of Demeter good?
very
honest kernel
I saw it but wasn't sure if it was worth investing into?
sly remnant
i just did zeus on attack, arti on special, dio on cast, and athena on dash and call
honest kernel
Just maxed it. What build do you normally go with it?
ripe crane
Hmmm I will have to try that next time I'm shooting for a duo
honest kernel
A Q build I assume
tidal flame
There are many options. I do Lightning Strike, Some %damage Flourish, Divine Dash if possible.
sly remnant
^thats the one i like
daring hedge
i just did zeus on attack, arti on special, dio on cast, and athena on dash and call
lol exactly the same for my 50 with dem fists, barring dio cast
mossy zinc
Any Malphon run wants Divine Dash or Attack.
daring hedge
sly remnant
i wanted aphro but the game didn't give it to me so
ember bronze
I was starting with Ares to force towards ME, but maybe that's to speedrun-inspired of a build
mossy zinc
That reminds me I gotta reclaim my Malphon throne sometime. I guess I still hold Talos WR, though.
ember bronze
Starting Athena and going wherever I go is not bad
mossy zinc
I mean, if you make it to Hades, it's not bad.
sly remnant
my only problem with starting with athena is that my tartarus is slower
ember bronze
yeah, but it does lead to resetting a lot
daring hedge
@mossy zinc oh where's your talos heat at?
ember bronze
It adds another way the run can mostly fail (getting AP'd on ME)
mossy zinc
45 in Blood Price.
daring hedge
very nice, i'm pretty bad with talos so kudos
sly remnant
i'm wondering if when i got for my recorded runs if I do just 40 or try to get the record with 46
mossy zinc
46 with Talos?
bronze viper
Oh, that's more impressive lol.
daring hedge
we need more high heat lucifer
bonus points if it's not just lightning strike brrr machine
daring hedge
lmao
mossy zinc
I wish there were more people playing Talos competently. I feel like the only two people who know how to play it right are @hallow stream and myself. I'm always interested in checking out any Talos runs that I see, and I always scratch my head at what they're doing lol.
sly remnant
i want to learn talos but demeter is so easy to play
mossy zinc
The Heavy Knuckle buff in the test branch is really nice for Talos.
bronze viper
What is the new base?
daring hedge
same with the debuff duration
bronze viper
Solid
daring hedge
i'm glad it got that finally
mossy zinc
Debuff duration actually doesn't matter lol. But it's nice to have, I won't complain.
daring hedge
i mean, it does matter for bosses and was discussed with devs but okay
mossy zinc
Yeah, 40 base damage is when I liked it the most in the Blood Price beta. Hoping it stays there.
mossy zinc
Reapplying the debuff to bosses is free, though. So it doesn't make all that much of a difference.
ripe crane
I just realized that with Talos I can pull enemies into rift blades 😳
sly remnant
yea but then you have to play blades
daring hedge
not free if it's a slight dps loss
ember bronze
my only problem with Talos is the moment of recovery when you're just pulled an enemy to your face
Maybe fine at FO0
mossy zinc
You should just dash-cancel your Special immediately.
Don't wait for the Uppercut.
Just press Dash immediately after pressing Special.
lol Shrouded curse from Master Chaos and RNGing into a trial with Speeder Slugger Greatshields.
sly remnant
I BELIEVE
YOU GOT THIS
he just has some extra HP
just need to hit him like one or two more times than normal
wanton plover
sadge
ripe crane
Daaaang 47 is a big heat. What weapon are you on?
tidal flame
Talos.
tidal flame
would be a nice buff, but that means we open the can of worm between stuff like Shared Suffering, Maim, etc.
daring hedge
i saw lol, i was too scared to go for EM4
not nearly enough talos experience for me to confidently go into that
tidal flame
do you have an EM4 practive save?
sly remnant
does an EM4 practice save help?
every build is gonna play different and require slight variations right
ripe crane
But Hades himself will behave basically the same.
sly remnant
fair
mossy zinc
@daring hedge congratulations! 
daring hedge
thank you!
prime cairn
Nice @daring hedge - was that 46 Heat Talos on live or Test Branch?
ember bronze
Following up on the previous: https://twitter.com/HamletEJ/status/1321200377606197248
rain sedge
Hey, I'm going to attempt 32 heat for the first time for the statue 😄 My max is 16 heat with the bow, and I got that fine (lost 1 defiance only). Is there an "easy mode" for 32 heats? What punishments are the easiest?
astral swift
what are you using, the bow?
rain sedge
I went with EM4 and tight deadline 2 before, the miniboss one, and 1 shield
yeah chiron aspect
uhhh chill on attack, weak on special to proc exposed bonus damage. Nothing special other than that, got 1 good hammer (+3 attack per hit), got 1 +special chaos boon, but other than that it's all ok
hollow lynx
DC2 is free
astral swift
I did 36 with uhhh... td3, dc2, hs1, fo2, uc1, mm1, bp2, em3, cf2, lc4 as I recall
rain sedge
My best success is with poseidon and chiron
hollow lynx
don't go em4, too unnecessary
rain sedge
cast build works really well for me
really? maybe I'm bad, I hate the first and rail, I'm bad with it
does TD3 get really hard with 32 heat? I barely cleared tartarus in 7 minutes on 16 heat, although I have 8 minutes extra when I got to hades by the end
hollow lynx
my "base" for 32 is HL1/LC1/CF2/EM2/BP1/MM/FO1/TD2, then filling up pacts to reach 32 (depending on weapon)
usually EM3, BP2, UC, FO2, DC2 (depending on weapon), and AP1
daring hedge
@prime cairn current test branch, so with the 4sec -> 6sec debuff time change
tepid mural
Whats an em4 practice save??
hollow lynx
i don't like TD3 but if i'm on a weapon i know can conquer it, i'll take it
Whats an em4 practice save??
you back-up a save right before the em4 dad fight and use it to practice
rain sedge
so EM4 gets really hard on 32 heat I assume
hollow lynx
i'm not sure how to do one but there's people here who've done it before
rain sedge
ok, thanks all. Is chiron/poseidon good at 32 heat, or was it only helpful up to 16 heat?
I'm planning to either go for some mirage shot shenanigans or hope for good hammers on chiron
hollow lynx
EM4 just gets exponentially harder as you go up (and increasingly punishing for melee D:)
i'd definitely not go pos imo
probably aphro + fixation, artemis, dio (with at least 1 related duo), or demeter + arctic blast
hollow lynx
when i do chiron, i always just go dem + arctic blast, but those are what i've heard get results
rain sedge
im planning to chill the main bosses to give me more time to dodge
mossy zinc
Get Heartbreak Strike, Drunken Flourish, Low Tolerance on Chiron for 32.
rain sedge
may I ask why hangover build is good? on lower heat at least I feel like it's not as much dps as say, artemis
ember bronze
Low tolerance Chiron is how I got my first 32 in 1.0
mossy zinc
@daring hedge Heavy Knuckle + Deadly Strike is so nice now, isn't it? What did you take that hammer over? I'm curious.
mossy zinc
@rain sedge some math for Drunken Flourish on Chiron and why it's good here: #h1-high-heat-strategies message
rain sedge
5Head
so if I understand it correctly, hangover is better if you can get low tolerance?
mossy zinc
It's better if you just apply it to 2 enemies or more.
rain sedge
ahhh I see
mossy zinc
You want to switch targets after every Volley.
rain sedge
I guess I'm only thinking about big bosses, thanks 😄
ember bronze
Low Tolerance is the best single-target DPS increase to hangover (60%)
mossy zinc
Pom scaling is also great on it.
ember bronze
Curse of Nausea isn't bad (42% and doesn't require weak)
mossy zinc
Just put all the poms on it that you get.
ember bronze
Yeah rounding makes Drunken Flourish scale +1 with each Pom
trim sigil
Curse of nausea is a tad suboptimal because of ares on attack, but either approach can work i believe
mossy zinc
It's not really rounding lol but yeah.
ember bronze
Ares on attack isn't really that bad
loud coral
When you got Low Tolerance and like 7-11 arrows flying at enemies then yeah Drunken Flourish is really solid
trim sigil
Yeah, I like it a lot in fact, but heartbreak is just better to invest in attacks
rain sedge
my hammers havent been great, I keep having to restart :/
mossy zinc
You can get Curse of Nausea from Curse of Vengeance unless they changed that.
loud coral
You're not gonna be using your attack too much other than for trash mobs and special targets so might as well get Weak on it
ember bronze
I would just practice and try to play it out
trim sigil
while ares is sort of lingering effect, and having 2 with no regular dmg option is... not the best
ember bronze
(I say, as I've been resetting 43 heat for 20 runs to keep trying Merciful End)
mossy zinc
Drunken Flourish doesn't need Low Tolerance to be good.
And you'll attack a lot because Chiron's Volley has a CD anyway. Not using that for an Attack is just wasting time.
loud coral
I should probably run Drunken Flourish more tbh, Trippy Shot might work great with it for Black Out too
mossy zinc
@ember bronze I think you're not doing yourself any favors with HL5 on Malphon if you're still learning it for high heat.
ripe crane
Quake cutter actually functions like 25% of the time. I'm not gonna land and let myself take 80 damage from everything around me just for a little shockwave
wow I am not reading the latest messages huh
mossy zinc
25% of the 0 times you use your regular Uppercut.
mossy zinc
I'd rather take FO than HL on Malphon, personally.
ember bronze
Not sure I can do EM4 FO1, I'm not super great at it
ripe crane
^^^ Fists are fast, they can deal with FO2
ember bronze
Maybe that's easier for 43, hmm
mossy zinc
Malphon has no problem with TD3 with JS3 CP2 DC2.
ember bronze
I was so close to this one a bunch
maybe will take a break and try some Rama stuff tonight
mossy zinc
Could just give it a try. Once you get to Hades, you won't have to fight EM4 HL5, so that should make things a lot easier.
pearl warren
Hello, I'm trying to get 20 heat on all weapon and I can't find good build for the sword and the rail gun
For the rail gun I'm using zeus on ATK + poseidon else where but it doesn't seem that good
mossy zinc
What aspect?
pearl warren
I'm doing that on first aspect but I want 20 heat on any aspect
mossy zinc
Eris with Lightning Strike, Tidal Dash, and Sea Storm is the best build in the game right now for most purposes.
mossy zinc
It is.
pearl warren
What about the sword?
rain sedge
sea storm looks goood
pearl warren
For the sword i've tried dislodging with artemis and it was really fun But you need luck to get what you want
mossy zinc
Try Electric Shot on Poseidon Aspect if you want to use that.
Just put a lot of poms on it and get t2 lightning boons for your cast.
mossy zinc
Depends on what you consider strongest.
pearl warren
Easiest
Because I don't like playing with the sword
I just want to get 20 heat then go next
sly remnant
yea you can fit arti in somewhere else for heart's rend
mossy zinc
No point in Heart Rend for Excalibur if you don't have crits on Attack.
pearl warren
me too 😄
mossy zinc
But you'll want to look for Zeus' Aid and Smoldering Air if you're going with Heartbreak Strike.
pearl warren
Ok
mossy zinc
Excalibur builds god gauge very slowly, so Smoldering Air is a huge buff if you can get it.
pearl warren
what special would you take?
astral swift
yeah special is for the damage shield, not for doing damage so just throw something on it to get the duo
pearl warren
I went for double curse so I guess I need a doom or something
astral swift
so my 36 heat run I just finished was uhhh...
LC4
CF2
EM3
BP2
MM1
UC1
FO2
HS1
DC2
TD3
Trying to figure out what to add/remove/change to get to 40.
this was with aspect of eris and my 40 run likely will be to, for ref
pearl warren
@mossy zinc Ok my first 3 boons are:
Heartbeat strike
Zeus's aid
Smoldering Air
No reset 😄
astral swift
nice
astral swift
eurydice*
mossy zinc
@astral swift JS3 CP1.
mossy zinc
Sure.
astral swift
yeah? i thought it might be too much. fair enough then
mossy zinc
Eris is the fastest aspect in the game.
mossy zinc
@pearl warren Acorn for Elysium and the Temple of Styx.
I'd just do JS3 CP2 DC2 TD3 with Eris, personally.
pearl warren
Really?
pearl warren
I thought that was a noob trap keepsake
astral swift
nah eurydice rules
mossy zinc
Can take 1 point off HS and add it CP2.
mossy zinc
So your run doesn't randomly end because you happened to step on an urn lol.
pearl warren
My last run with sword ended because of the laser at 21 heat
mossy zinc
Acorn is just an easy pick to help with boss fights.
pearl warren
the laser made me lag a bit, took like 80 dmg in a second
ok i'm full build
in asphodel that's insane luck
daring hedge
deadly flourish zeus aspect is honestly really fun. if i do 50 attempts on it again, i might do that instead of zeus stacking or fishing for ME
astral swift
how much do hades' urns do in HS?
twilit orbit
150 I'm pretty sure
ember bronze
ya
pearl warren
what a disgusting build
i didn't lose a life
xD
disgusting luck
@mossy zinc Thx for the help
ebon night
tidal flame
And there lies the rub.
mint cobalt
Darn thats ridiculous clear time i mean
I always get like 30 or more runs
The lowest i go is like 27 run speed wise
prime cairn
So now that the patch has dropped - and from discussion so far... The read I'm getting from people is that the 32 Heat (Unseeded) category should go up.
And also maybe a 40 Heat category. Are there many people running 40 Heat?
Would like to hear more on this.
mint cobalt
As I literally am ridiculously slow
because I normally do all the rooms in the styx but whateve
pearl warren
@mint cobalt The parchement for the speed used to be way different (didn't stack) so it forced people to get extremely fast, especially in Elysium
ripe crane
45 Heat with demfists done 🥵. Last fight was intense af. Pretty sure I should've died but somehow I hit Hades before he hit me.
ember bronze
EM4?
ripe crane
Would've actually cried because I realized right after that I never used my summon and could've just called Achilles from safety to finish him off
Ya, and FO2. Only having to put 1 into hard labor feels better to me, even with all the extra speed.
ember bronze
what damage build did you wind up with
ripe crane
Also with common impending doom. I think the backstab explosive uppers actually did significantly more damage than the ME, as I only had two dashes
ember bronze
I've been discovering how Explosive Upper is great
ripe crane
Aside from the damage, it makes room clears so much faster, which means you can play more patiently at Hades. I had like 5:30 when I entered his room, definitely felt nice to be able to slow down a little.
ember bronze
Yeah, some of my losses are getting there with some pressure and around 3min
dry flame
its def helpful if u do td3
ripe crane
3 minutes is just... rude. Like it almost feels doable if you have a really good setup. I'm sure some people can but I get too nervous and screw up.
ember bronze
I've had wins like 90s over time in Hades
dry flame
but i guess if u get unlucky with boons and stuff than ur dmg can be lacking
ember bronze
but it is stressful
ripe crane
Last time I really thought I'd pull it off, I had 3 minutes, close to 400 HP, Patty's blessing, and an extra DD from Athena. But the timer had me so worried that I took almost 1k damage in phase one.
I just shut down at even the slightest amount of stress lol
ember bronze
This one was fun: https://twitter.com/HamletEJ/status/1320591535205806080
ripe crane
21:31 
45 seems so doable compared to 50. Like... at this point I can turn off all of my boon manipulation and bash my head against a wall until a good build finally happens, or I can take double damage. Neither sound very pleasant
dry flame
45 is def doable
hollow lynx
for a KBM player, lucy changes are pretty good 😛
also managed to get a targeting battie hit off
north dove
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/599449585710006288/770828871511703552/unknown.png 44 spear EM4 is very spooky
dry flame
holy 50 without godmode huuurts like a truck
ripe crane
What is the little icon next to time limit @north dove ?
north dove
Which icon?
ripe crane
The heat list at the top. There is DC, AP, TD, ?
ripe crane
oooh interesting. What's that do?
north dove
Removes iframes after getting hit I believe
hollow lynx
there's a mercy shield that pops if you get hit for a large percent of your hp
dry flame
hell mode 
hollow lynx
personal liability removes that
ripe crane
Huh. That almost sounds like a reason to play hell mode. How many heat does that give?
ripe crane
Ah, it requires CP. Yeah that's not good.
north dove
and JS :/
ripe crane
That's weird that it isn't an option normally
ember bronze
How do people choose between gold, pom, and health in act1?
Say you're playing CP2, UC, TD3
ripe crane
I pick health over pom or gold basically every time, which I don't think is the norm
I would pick gold if I absolutely need to buy a boon to sell and somehow don't have enough
cerulean frigate
depends largely on how badly you need the 150/210/270 gold for a boon to sell
and how good a pom is
like if you have 3 upgradable boons and 2 of them are good upgrades even with AP1 that pom is pretty good
trim sigil
That's too complicated, ngl
Like, I avoid poms but they can be more useful early on before you have too many boons which will make poms miss
Gold is a preference, but with CF2 it's practically worthless, but you may need it anyway to buy a boon for UC
Health is.. well, health, and might be the preference on CF2, but focusing too much on it won't do any good either
cerulean frigate
but when you have 10+ there's not any reliability to upgrading what you want
10's a bit of an exaggeration but you get the idea, when you have more than 3 you're not guaranteed to see what you want to upgrade
and it's kind of a bad way to spend a reroll
twilit orbit
i normally force a good attack/special with a god keepsake in act 1, so i like taking poms early because I can guarantee they go onto that boon that I took
afterwards I usually take something else over poms, unless I have a different boon that I picked up that I really want to upgrade
which usually ends up being my call
I agree that taking gold can be important if you really need to get another boon to avoid selling your core boons though
daring hedge
there are still plenty of situations while starting with a god keepsake where poms really aren't worth the trouble if you have a choice between it and gold/heart, e.g. common deadly strike or divine dash
hollow lynx
hey tail
won a 32 with new lucy
it was with divine flourish, which surprisingly put in a ton of work
daring hedge
which hammers
tidal flame
little trivia for ya
if I have chaos spec curse and I use Dem charged special
how much damage will I take>
daring hedge
i wanna say just one tick of chaos damage because you only hit special once
in terms of inputs
cerulean frigate
getting an epic dio call on chiron feels disgusting
just permanently put super hangover on bosses
bronze viper
Why Chiron in particular
twilit orbit
maybe he's implying that chiron has a very easy time generating god gauge?
iirc you get a flat amount of gauge per hit you deal
bronze viper
Oh, i see.
twilit orbit
and chiron special is 8 (or 12) easy hits
cerulean frigate
yeah it's one of the fastest at building god gauge
pretty much only eris is faster
bronze viper
The combo works better on Eris, but yeah Chiron is a close second. Still dope.
twilit orbit
i assume that zag gun is better at building gauge than eris because you have less reload downtime lol
but obviously eris is better for other reasons
bronze viper
Like 75% hangover damage :3
cerulean frigate
i just enjoy how there is a lot of really good stuff you can do on chiron. like tempest flourish sea storm. it's no heart rend deadly flourish but you can still get super high output with rupture, jolted, knockback
bronze viper
I wish Sea Storm was worth the effort lol. For the amount of boons it takes to make it happen you may as well just use Thunder Flourish
cerulean frigate
tempest flourish and electric shot are enough to see sea storm
electric shot shores up some of chiron's weaknesses in tartarus anyway
bronze viper
But Sea Storm doesn't actually give you good DPS until you get the normal Zeus boons anyway
You get a 40 damage Thunder Flourish as a duo boon
cerulean frigate
it procs 2-3 times still and you get a special that scales much better than thunder flourish will in terms of poms
bronze viper
3 is pretty rare. It's comfortably 2
cerulean frigate
rupture is just a lot of damage too even at common rarity. it just doesn't have a very long duration and you really don't want tempest strike
bronze viper
I'm not saying the build can't work out. Obviously it can. But you have to see a lot of 2 gods
maiden geode
poms are better earlier
they'll almost always hit your core boon and the upgrades see more rooms to save time in
ripe crane
Can't use poms if you're dead
prime cairn
true fable
yall how do chaos boons work? Is it additive with whatever else you have on it? I feel like I should know this given the fact that I have hundreds of hours but
bronze viper
Additive
ripe crane
Decided to give Rama a lil' pre-sleep fun run. Started with Dio. Had lvl 4 hangover special and Curse of Nausea before the end of Tartarus. I just want to force this every time now. Never attack again
Real talk though, are there any legitimately dio-based high heat strats? I genuinely do like starting with it on rama but I know it isn't feasible to only do that
bronze viper
Both my 49 and 50 are hangover builds
ripe crane
oh YEAH? But are they really hangover builds or are they builds with hangover in them
bronze viper
I seeded for Relentless Volley with Dio's keepsake in both of them.
You eventually have to go hybrid if you don't get the duos, which is what I did in both of them.
ripe crane
Is hybrid more than picking up a decent attack boon
bronze viper
Nope, that's what I ended up doing
Got lucky in both of them and got an attack hammer too
Considering AP2
ripe crane
Hmmmm not sure I'd wanna try AP2
bronze viper
The existence of AP2 in those runs makes the strat more legit, not less
It means it works on nothing.
bronze viper
The build.
If the build functions with AP2, it certainly functions much better without it
bronze viper
The build is very good. It's not particularly good in the unseeded meta though because you don't want to start Dio blind into a run without knowing you'll get Relentless Volley
And it's too slow and annoying to solo Hangover without it
ripe crane
Eh, I am mainly just shooting for 45s right now. I feel like I could do unseeded there.
cerulean frigate
i figured out wtf the 35 damage comes from after the shockwave in a hades phase transition
it's actually the very first dash Hades does
if he touches you it damages you
bronze viper
Lol. Well played, Dad.
ripe crane
Why are all the good weapons on the right side of the room
urban trench
specifically for high heat or in general?
limber ocean
Because power creep.
urban trench
fists and pew pew guns are strong
im not crazy about the bow, unless i get the ability to just hold down fire instead of charge
ripe crane
I think Rama bow has the highest 1.0 heat completion
cerulean frigate
to be fair the bow used to be a lot worse
ripe crane
Ah, I was not around pre-1.0
urban trench
the bow is such a pain for me.
pre1.0 i never wanted to look at it
cerulean frigate
but yeah the dash thing is so weird and inconsistent, it's ONLY that first dash he does immediately after his shield drops
urban trench
i still have disdain for it.. even though i just won w/ it last night since i got the auto fire (no charge up) ability
cerulean frigate
i never would have guessed without playing back the video of several instances
prime cairn
Okay everyone, I've put 32 Heat (Unseeded) category is up on the speedrun.com boards. Good luck!
Sounds like with the discussion above that 40 Heat deserves a place as well.
maiden geode
oh hey it's a speedrun.com guy
prime cairn
Oh hie. 
mossy zinc
Not seeing Lady Athena once after forcing her in Tartarus sure feels great.
astral swift
oof. that sucks
oh i just noticed the "changed timing of codex" or whatever in patch notes. So is that momentum stuff fixed now?
edgy arrow
haven’t tested it, but i believe that was the purpose of the change yeah
astral swift
FORTY HEAT BEATEN
please tell me the leaderboard includes a 40 heat clear and doesn't demand it be 41
astral swift
thank god lmao
mossy zinc
Did you record?
astral swift
mhm. working on trimming it for youtube now
have to show death too for unseeded, yeah?
mossy zinc
Yes.
astral swift
kk
ember bronze
I’ve thrown my myself at 43 for a few sessions now, after getting really close
It’s super frustrating
astral swift
does it have to show how I died or just the "there is no escape" screen?
ember bronze
I should maybe do a 40 or 41 recorded just so I have that
astral swift
and oof hamlette. Yeah I recommend just getting the 40 for bragging rights that was my goal. Gonna push it after of course but this way I always have this haha
astral swift
ugh. urns?
mossy zinc
I noticed in Asphodel that it was at 49 instead of 50 lol.
Nope that insta-spin phase 2 part 2 after his invisibility got me.
astral swift
Ahhh yeah
I can see that
Honestly I still think part 1 is the harder part. It's definitely mitigated by the acorn, thankfully, but comparitively it's just the more annoying phase
but that's just imo
it's just wild to me cause i'm used to bosses ramping up in difficulty haha
ember bronze
Oh wait, my first 40 was on stream
astral swift
Got it. Thanks
this victory is 100% thanks to your advice btw, nyaa
you (and others, but mostly you) have been super helpful
really appreciate it
also i don't know if i should be calling you nyaa or mew or what lmao
mossy zinc
Take some credit yourself. :P
astral swift
Well, okay yeah maybe not 100% but you know what I mean. I'd be at like 17 heat without all everyone's advice haha
felt like i was doing one of those couch to 5k guides lmao
lilac notch
so what is the record ?
mossy zinc
lilac notch
that must be full heat right ?
astral swift
no full heat is like 60 something and, I assume, impossible
lilac notch
give me 5 months
mossy zinc
63 in normal mode, 64 in hell mode.
astral swift
lmao well impossible because of the time limit
wtf is hell mode
did i miss a difficulty increase somewhere
lilac notch
you can enter a diff called 'Hell Mode' in Menu
this makes the game significantly harder and WAY less fun
astral swift
Huh. Fair enough.
lilac notch
i'd only recommend doing that when you have completed the story
astral swift
yeah fair. I might go check it out later
mossy zinc
It just sets your heat to min 5 with JS1 CP1 HL1 LC1 and Personal Liability.
astral swift
"personal liability" being?
mossy zinc
The invulnerability that you get when take 25% of your HP as damage is gone.
astral swift
oh
wicked sparrow
I choked on Hades so bad. Aeugh. Admittedly the build's damage was quite slow, so I was running out of time against him as it is. But I managed to legitimately managed to bring the run to Hades, a lot of thanks to Stubborn Roots against the Champions.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/733989352266268767/770970333863084052/unknown.png
cerulean frigate
i can't bring myself to turn on RI1 for 32-40 heat
rerolls and dark foresight too stronk
mossy zinc
Don't then lol.
cerulean frigate
dunno, it just feels really gross to go back to "oops all gemstone rooms"
ripe crane
I didn't touch RI yesterday when doing 45. Too much benefit.
astral swift
so dark foresight is better than olympian favour, then?
I just assumed the rarity increase would be preferable
mossy zinc
Yeah, Dark Foresight is way better.
astral swift
So what does it do exactly? I didn't totally get the description. It has a chance to change like, darkness rooms to boons is that the idea?
astral swift
right no I see what it says I guess I just... didn't get what that me--. Oh
what does temporary/permanent mean in this instance?
mossy zinc
Temporary rewards are gone after a run, permanent rewards you get to keep.
astral swift
Oh duh of course. fair
Fair enough, then. ty
am i right that rooms will never have like, a choice between a blue and a gold? I don't think I've ever seen like "room 1: darkness, room 2: hammer"
mossy zinc
Right.
astral swift
got it.
btw is it ever worth it to choose something other than hammer? I've been tempted a few times but I can't think of when I would do that, unless I absolutely needed a trash boon to sell or something
mossy zinc
Yeah, when you have AP2 and a bad hammer could brick your run, for example.
Or maybe on Poseidon Aspect.
astral swift
Ohhh right AP2. Okay. Didn't think of that
mossy zinc
Also when there's a god you really want or something. Hammers will appear another time.
astral swift
Yeah that's true, I've seen it in asphodel even on runs where I missed it in tartarus
I think I'm gonna have to just write off ap2 forever. I don't have the luck, or patience, for that lmao
i could MAYBE try ap1 for a while but eh
ripe crane
There is no need to turn on AP1 for quite a while
astral swift
i mean fair but i'm running out of stuff to turn on instead lmao
ripe crane
What heat are ya at?
astral swift
just finished 40
ripe crane
Oooo yeah it gets tighter after that. AP1 is certainly an option
astral swift
only things not on were... HL, the last 3 levels of CP, RI, EM4... might be missing something else
and yeah ap
can EM4 be done on TD3? With Eris, I mean. I figure it's possible but you gotta get lucky af with the styx
mossy zinc
Sure.
ripe crane
Sure, definitely with Eris
astral swift
fair enough
I think I had like... 3:30 or so left on my timer in the one I just did, but again I had a 2 room styx
cerulean frigate
that was a very weird but fun build, i got flurry shot on chiron early with divine strike. picked up deadly reversal, curse of pain, merciful end with dire misfortune and impending doom. and hunting blades to rub it in
ripe crane
Of course, the classic Chiron cast build
cerulean frigate
nah, the casts were just there for throwing during dad phase transitions mostly. it was all about those super thicc doom ticks by the end
dire misfortune is pretty alright when you are applying 8 stacks of it then triggering merciful end
rocky hinge
anyone got advice for extreme measures hades? I get to him constantly but just can't get past him at 40 heat
I use chiron bow
rocky hinge
Time is no problem. I mostly struggle to get damage done and clearing the small mobs. Usually I get there with a few death defiance and acron equipped, I keep dying to second phase though
sly remnant
what build are you using on chiron bow?
rocky hinge
crit special and whatever good attack I get, I don't really invest in casts
sly remnant
so if you like crits then aphro attack is your best option for heart's rend
rocky hinge
ye I usually root for aphro. are there any other builds u'd recommend?
sly remnant
i think nyaa did the math that dio special is the best on chiron now
rocky hinge
With the changed 7 to 8 shots?
sly remnant
hold up let me find her math
you can read for a bit after that as various people who are good at the game talk thru the options with potential duo/legendary partners
in reality a aphro attack dio special with privileged status is probably going to represent some of your best clear potential
hollow lynx
which hammers
@daring hedge targeting flash fire
also, checking the wiki, apparently curse of drowning is exclusive with mirage shot... 😐
rocky hinge
ty that one is helpful
hollow lynx
which means i have to change my synergy spreadsheet
sly remnant
why is curse of drowning so bad
hollow lynx
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1U4Gc4bDDQR3Jc0_vvRq1RsvUN-Xm85y90hmww91e3_k/edit?usp=sharing
patch-notes:
changed annotation of ares/artemis/poseidon in accordance with new information (now with more salt!)
sly remnant
what makes ares poseidon and zeus very synergistic?
hollow lynx
Curse of Drowning
Sea Storm
Vengeful Mood(This assumes Curse of Drowning works with Sea Storm, which I have not personally verified.)
Both Curse of Drowning and Vengeful Mood want to be in melee, so you have massive DPS with some nifty revenge effects procing every 3 seconds. And each pulse of Curse of Drowning inflicts another bolt of lightning! (A Poseidon knockback revenge boon would be perfect here, get on it, SGG!)
from the annotation of said trio
wintry sluice
it took a broken build but i finally beat heat 43 with rama
took a broken build. had aphro call + smoldering air to keep hades CCed 70%, that was the key
cerulean frigate
curse of drowning is strong, it's just awkward when you aren't in melee range a lot of the time
i.e. fists
sly remnant
yea but then i have poseidon in my boon pool with fists