h1-high-heat-strategies

[daring hedge]

could fill up HL and go back to TD2 i suppose

[ripe crane]

This will be the first run I've played without EM4 for.... a long time. I have lost almost all of my runs to dad though. Soooo maybe I have been wrong in playing it this whole time 😬

[daring hedge]

a lot of my 50s have been without EM4 lol

it takes a lot of pressure off

[bronze viper]

My 50 definitely did not have EM4

Barf

[ripe crane]

Huh. Interesting.

Well at the very least I've gotten a lot of practice for the fight

[edgy arrow]

turning up HL does make my runs faster ... 😬

[daring hedge]

this was my 50 hades and demeter pact for context, in terms of avoiding EM4 even there

https://puu.sh/GGtl5/f0f0c0ef5b.jpg

[ripe crane]

This inspired me to try Achilles cast one more time without EM4. Passed up a chaos room cause I didn't have enough health despite being in dire need of another cast. Forgot I could just... die to get more hp.

[hollow lynx]

all of my runs today were great, except one really unlucky room that ended up killing that run... and this happened for all of them

and i think there's something where if i get that unlucky room and my run starts suddenly going south, i just start playing really bad

[trim sigil]

SD is really that funny thing that makes each room either not matter or be a killer

with DD you'd remember every single damage taken

[hollow lynx]

i was practicing 32 with DD, maybe i should switch to SD?

[trim sigil]

o

Now I wonder about the scale of "bad" in those rooms if you died in there with DDs

[hollow lynx]

mainly bad BP2 combos

had a wringer today grab me while i was in the middle of a linker laser

insta-gibbed a dd

[trim sigil]

Yeah that does make sense, ouch

[hollow lynx]

32 feels like that weird middle ground where i'm not gonna be abusing SD much, but DDs won't get me all the way through the attempt lol

just gotta get better

[solar blade]

Died to [Redacted] on 32, gonna go meet him irl now bye

[onyx forge]

I like DD for 32 heat since I rarely die until Theseus or Hades. So having more for those rooms is nice.

[solar blade]

that aggrevates the hell out of me bruh

I am getting closer though

[edgy arrow]

the best part about SD honestly is it makes me actually fight bosses

[solar blade]

Correct

[edgy arrow]

rather than just DD tanking my way through them

[solar blade]

yeah SD clears are just so much more satisfying than anything else

[daring hedge]

getting used to SD really did force me to improve on EM3 and hades

[edgy arrow]

yeah previously i would lose a couple of DDs to EM3, hopefully buy one back and lose a couple more to Hades

this is no longer sustainable lol

[solar blade]

hmm I'm gonna try 32 with my old bb Hades Spear

[ripe crane]

Starting non-EM dad with 6 seconds left. I actually think this would be possible if I had a touch of styx dark

[onyx forge]

May all your future runs be 2 sack runs.

[ripe crane]

Died with him at 20% hp left in phase 2 😦

Would have been a success if I had saved my greater athena call until the end as that stops the timer from killing you

[daring hedge]

phase 3? i thought you said non-EM dad

ah typo

[ripe crane]

Phase 2

yeah lol

[daring hedge]

also, athena call does not stop TD damage, actually

it wouldn't have saved you

[ripe crane]

It will stop you from dying tho

You just hover at 1 hp

[daring hedge]

oh neat, i didn't know that

[trim sigil]

Sounds rather inconsistent ngl

[hollow lynx]

the best TD counter is cursed flurry

[ripe crane]

Well. if it's greater call and you use it at low HP, it buys you some time. I imagine it also works to stop a DD/SD from being eaten also but I've not used it at that point

[onyx forge]

I would've assumed that Athena call would just stop TD damage while it was active.

[daring hedge]

it sadly does not

[solar blade]

alright hades was not the move

died to timer

[trim sigil]

hypothetically, won't you be able to stop dying by timing dashes, then?

unless it's a different invincibility state compared to athena aid

[daring hedge]

i don't think you can evade the TD ticks with iframes like that

[onyx forge]

It stops poison damage iirc which is why I would think it stops td damage.

[ripe crane]

TD is like, loss of life. Not damage.

[trim sigil]

It does stop poison damage, but poison is a ton of small hits rather than hp subtraction

[daring hedge]

TD ticks have a piercing quality that even poison doesn't have

and apparently the one thing they can't pierce is 1 hp while athena invuln is active lol

[trim sigil]

funnily enough btw, if you stack damage reduction sources, 1 stack of poison should deal 0 dmg. at least that's what I seemingly experienced with sturdy and some other stuff

[ripe crane]

I imagine Athena call has some other property that just prevents you from dying

[trim sigil]

Could be that, indeed

[bronze viper]

Wow, that was... very embarrassing lol. I got tilted from forgetting to get DD in Styx, got a 4 sack on TD3, and I still would have finished but I got hit by normal attacks and died to badness.

[solar blade]

mood

[ripe crane]

Dying to attacks is what I'm best at

[solar blade]

same

[honest kernel]

I like doing this thing where when I get hit once, I immediately panic dash into more damage

[ripe crane]

Very inefficient, you have iframes while dashing. Simply walk into the damage instead

[honest kernel]

I have much to learn

[edgy arrow]

Very inefficient, you have iframes while dashing. Simply walk into the damage instead
these are the pro strats i come to this channel for

[trim sigil]

You can also just dash strike to get rid of iframes

So it is faster to dash into damage

Just make sure to not pick up divine dash

[edgy arrow]

“Just make sure to not pick up divine dash”
-CrabBar

[rocky lark]

I did SD for all my 32 heat clears so far

Just did Chaos shield there and got it on Arthur, Hades and Rama before

It felt much more relaxed personally since you are much more free to take some damage throughout the run and at 32 I don't need to run FO2 or EM4 so with Acorn for Elysium and Styx I didn't have any issues so far

[edgy arrow]

yeah it’s great to be able to mess up to BP2 elites in tartarus and it doesn’t really effect the run at all

more relaxed (in general) for sure

[cerulean frigate]

I don't really enjoy how "gamey" SD is with LC4 honestly

especially with the interaction with Athena DDs

[wanton plover]

whats gamey

[rocky lark]

The clears I did so far felt pretty free since I used quite safe weapons (even got exploding launcher on Hades spear) so I think Dem and Eris might be a bit harder since they're more aggro

I haven't actually managed to stick in a free athena DD under my SD yet haha

[edgy arrow]

the athena interaction is a little weird yeah

i’m mostly fine with it, i just kinda wish it wasn’t a secret mechanic that new players will likely not figure out by themselves

[daring hedge]

it's kinda neat how it was a potentially unintentional tech that got discovered, then the devs found out about it and decided to leave it in

[hollow lynx]

we love amir

[edgy arrow]

i don’t disagree

but the problem is they’re standard athena boons, so if you don’t realise how they work they just seem useless

idk

[trim sigil]

Now I wonder whether showing "replenish 1 use" only when it can actually be replenished and removing that line when you're full would help the understanding

[edgy arrow]

that would probably leave new players more confused lol

[trim sigil]

Fair

[hollow lynx]

i'd rather an extra clause, like "Replenish 1 use if you have an empty slot" or whatever

[edgy arrow]

honestly i just kinda wish those boons weren’t offered if you didn’t have an open DD/SD slot

like, how often do you take them in that situation, if you aren’t forced to by AP?

[trim sigil]

well, that'd be fine if they didn't offer other benefits

[solar blade]

I will say that I wish that SD gave you a higher % of health back. 30% just feels so loooow, especially if you eat it early in a run and get stuck burning them and sitting at 60%EHP

then again 50% would be pretty OP as well so idk

[trim sigil]

+10% hp restored per revive is still chonky from deathless stand

or whichever stand that was

[bronze viper]

Considering the amount of damage SD allows you take during a run it's pretty warranted

[edgy arrow]

anything higher than 30% would be pretty crazy on LC4

[bronze viper]

It's already just straight up better than DD even without considering LC4

[rocky lark]

It's only 60% EHP but you're always on that 60% EHP for each room

[solar blade]

wait what is that @trim sigil I don't thing I've seen that

[rocky lark]

I know after party is a meme but it's like a free better after party

[trim sigil]

One of the athena boons that replenishes 1 revive and increases hp from revives?

orr?

[solar blade]

oh yes

okay I thought you were talking about something else

[edgy arrow]

i think that’s Last Stand, but yeah

[trim sigil]

Btw it's only every second room where you have 60% ehp, because if you exit the room with practically 0hp, you'd only have 30% in next room

[edgy arrow]

honestly i’d rarely take it on SD if i didn’t have an open slot, just because it would reduce the chance of me getting the extra DD later

[solar blade]

debating doing another H32 attempt tonight but idk

[trim sigil]

Granted, the amount of total heal SD makes through chambers is disgusting nonetheless

[solar blade]

I feel like I don't use it to it's full extent

[edgy arrow]

try LC4 lol

then you’ll use it

[solar blade]

by brain is still doing mental jumping jacks because even SD I'm still intuitively used to trying to save DDs for Hades 🧠

[edgy arrow]

oh yeah i feel that

i’ve been on SD exclusively for a while, and even now i still sometimes go “oh no, i lose a DD! oh wait, it’s free”

[solar blade]

Dying intentionally is a very new concept for my poor chimpanzee brain

[trim sigil]

death is only the beginning

[edgy arrow]

ngl losing a run because i had epic Sure Footing and didn’t have time to kill myself with a trap was a weird experience

[trim sigil]

real heat comes in when you lost a SD on purpose and then see the obol trove

[wanton plover]

Elysium archers never shoot you when you need em to

those heckin heckers

[ripe crane]

I lost a run because I waited 30 seconds for one to shoot me at the end of a butterfly ball. He refused to do so and I lost an Athena DD because of it

[trim sigil]

Btw there is exactly one thing I cannot tolerate SD for and will switch to DD
Hunting for early Charon fight

Hope you all figure why

[ripe crane]

Bragging rights

[edgy arrow]

i haven’t even tried charon on SD yet lol

[trim sigil]

well, the reason for dd rather than charon, but that too ig

[ripe crane]

I'm not sure why you would fight Charon during a high heat run at all

[bronze viper]

Lmao, what is this. 6 RI2 Zag bow deaths in a row, Heartbreak Strike isn't even offered, better yet struck by AP1

[trim sigil]

I won't, that's correct too

just don't run AP lmao

[edgy arrow]

i wish AP just showed you less options

why let me know what i’m missing out on?

AP taunts me

[trim sigil]

guess that's the part of the heat/punishment: tilting you

[wanton plover]

because you have weak mental

[edgy arrow]

yeah exactly lol

[wanton plover]

be strong

like meg

[edgy arrow]

i am too weak for AP it’s true

if i was strong enough to deal 2500 damage to half the screen, i wouldn’t need boons at all

[ripe crane]

Speaking of which, why doesn't Than do 9999 damage when I call him 😠

[edgy arrow]

yeah he also doesn’t insta kill elites

is he like, not trying or what?

[ripe crane]

"Well Zag I'm just not as motivated when we're not competing"

[edgy arrow]

meanwhile, meg definitely doesn’t do 2500 damage when i’m fighting her

she clearly works harder when we’re working together

makes you think

[ripe crane]

I can't do it. I give up. I hate the spear so much.

[bronze viper]

Or perhaps you don't hate the spear... enough

[ripe crane]

You're right. I'm starting a new file and never unlocking it

It's dead to me

[cerulean frigate]

i mostly just dislike that using the sword attack combo (excluding arthur obviously) is actively bad once you turn on FO

even with hermes speed boost it isn't reliable at keeping enemies stunned

especially the thrust move, everything in the game will just smack you during its windup

i don't really enjoy just spamming dash strike on it

[ripe crane]

Doesn't help that the dash strike is a narrow little poke. I just don't enjoy using it at all unless I start with flurry slash

[ripe crane]

Am I right in thinking the Demeter's ice nova things are considered traps? I'm pretty sure I was only taking 1 damage from them with sure footing

Might need to test again next time it's an option

[solar blade]

second time dying to second phase of [redacted] on H32

I want to be unalive

[ripe crane]

You are

[rocky lark]

Hey at least you know you're close

[edgy arrow]

okay trying hades for the first time in a while

did they make the spin attack charge like, twice as fast when i wasn't paying attention?

[solar blade]

Gonna try going back to Ruthless Reflex, my muscle memory for dodge timing is way too used to it

didn't even notice I had it on Purple instead of Green ngl

just that I was taking more damage than usual and not doing enough

[daring hedge]

@edgy arrow spin charge time has not changed, no

[edgy arrow]

huh

[cerulean frigate]

making charon hit himself for 3k damage off a deflect is pretty hilarious

[daring hedge]

you might be experiencing the side effect of hades aspect having a larger radius at all charge levels, though

[cerulean frigate]

but the fight is soooo slow even still

[ripe crane]

What can you deflect from Charon?

[cerulean frigate]

the big oar swing

and the little wave thing he sends out

[edgy arrow]

ah, that'd be it

[ripe crane]

wha

[solar blade]

Also forgot to switch back to Mort because papi gave me permissions to use him against [redacted] and Shady gives me all of 6 health on LC2

[ripe crane]

That's wack

[edgy arrow]

yeah i remember when that was added, but i obviously have done shockingly few spins since then lol

[north dove]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/599449585710006288/769777453353664532/unknown.png Reached 42 heat with Demeter Fists on the first try after hours of failed 45 heat attempts.

[ripe crane]

Impressive build especially with the AP

[north dove]

Yeah I had a lot of fun. Demeter legendary wasn't as good as I would have hoped though

would be nice if it worked on 10% of the hp of all 3 phases of Hades combined

[bronze viper]

lol... this took more effort than I wanted it to. I think I basically had it on the first attempt, got spaghetti everywhere for no reason, then it took like 10 more before I got it out of salt. My spaghetti really wanted to leave my pockets in this attempt too but Patroclus saved the day as per usual.

https://imgur.com/brycNjr

[ripe crane]

Good ol' melee bow

[cerulean frigate]

point blank/twin shot range is not quite melee

but it's close

[ripe crane]

Kinda not fair that bow is the best ranged weapon and the best melee weapon

[edgy arrow]

what's the number of the last chamber in elysium?

[bronze viper]

Bow was just the worst weapon period pre 1.0, so...

[edgy arrow]

36, right?

[bronze viper]

36 is the boss, yes

[edgy arrow]

cool thanks

[cerulean frigate]

man even at common rarity with just a couple poms the dio call SLAPS

[bronze viper]

Yeah, not sure why i have to convince people of that so often

Have they pressed the button, like, ever, at any point? Lmao

600 AoE damage, for very near 0 effort

At minimum

[cerulean frigate]

even against a single target, 150 damage/tick is nothing to scoff at

[bronze viper]

The typical argument comes in the form of: "But Artemis' Greater Call can hit for 3000 damage"

smh

[cerulean frigate]

and by then i have lesser called 4 or 5 times and maintained bonuses from billowing strength

:)

[ripe crane]

Why would I use a call that doesn't make me invulnerable for 20 seconds

[bronze viper]

Second Wind too, plus Dio's Aid has good range, while Artemis' Aid usually has to be fired like inside of an enemy to guarantee the target.

Why would I use a call that doesn't make me invulnerable for 20 seconds
@ripe crane Lol, for most calls I'd agree with you, but Dio's Aid gets things dead fast

[cerulean frigate]

Athena, Zues and Dio calls are top tier

[bronze viper]

I think:

Poseidon
Athena/Dio (depending on if you want defense/damage)
Zeus
Aphro
Trash Gods

[cerulean frigate]

Who even knows where Aphrodite's call is. sometimes it just stuns an enemy for a bit, sometimes you kill 5 Elysium warriors with an elite chariot

[north dove]

Not a big fan of Zeus call mostly because it blinds the hell out of me

[bronze viper]

It has a rude tendency to grossly whiff at particular ranges too lol

[cerulean frigate]

Ares at least gives you an "oh crap" button

[bronze viper]

Correct. "Oh crap I have pressed this button, and now I cannot move"

[hollow lynx]

all the calls are oh crap buttons

ares call is the one where it's only an oh crap button

[cerulean frigate]

yes, but you're invulnerable just a smidge longer with Ares

[ripe crane]

I don't mind Ares. Actually decent damage and I like anything that guarantees a safe Cerberus

[cerulean frigate]

corner strats

[edgy arrow]

aphro call feels amazing while you're trivialising champions with it

[cerulean frigate]

you don't need to call to avoid doggy

[edgy arrow]

which i just did 30 seconds ago

but otherwise it does vary a little in quality yeah

[bronze viper]

If you stay in the very bottom right corner, usually 0 or 1 circles land there, and it's pretty easy to dodge 1 circle

[ripe crane]

Ya I stay down there but have also been hit down there

[bronze viper]

Oh so have I

[cerulean frigate]

I like the Poseidon call but it is way clunkier on kb&m

[bronze viper]

It's better than getting Good Boy combo'd in the middle though.

I like the Poseidon call but it is way clunkier on kb&m
@cerulean frigate I had not considered that. That sounds like a nightmare.

[cerulean frigate]

as underwhelming as the damage of the Demeter call is it at least applies chill pretty quickly

though if you're picking up Dem in the first place you probably aren't going to struggle in that regard to begin with

[bronze viper]

With FO2, actually hitting things with Demeter's Aid is iffy at best.

Since it takes an eternity to start up and grow

[ripe crane]

If I have to pick up Demeter it's either for Ravenous will or something to sell

[bronze viper]

And since you can't build God Gauge while a Call is going, and hers lasts forever (and you can only have 1 active at a time), it's way more awkward than it needs to be, eh.

It's a really cool call in concept though

[rocky lark]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725021639506526249/769786015157583882/unknown.png?width=785&height=442

Thank you Demeter, very cool

[bronze viper]

What a champion's set of boons lol

[rocky lark]

Yeah man just the best of the best

[ripe crane]

Wow, 4 bloodstones, great cast build

[rocky lark]

Big stonks

Synergises really well with LC4 nourished soul and Heroic crutch dash

[ripe crane]

This is one of those "the more you look the worse it gets" pictures

[cerulean frigate]

ah yes, classic Arthur. I chose not to force a god and Dio is the first choice with forced pick between Drunken Strike or Flourish

[solar blade]

I’ve started just forcing Athena at the start of every run, the sooner I get her Strike or Dash the better

[rocky lark]

Athena start on arthur is pretty decent since divine dash is very good on it and you can run any of athena/aphro/arty/dem on attack

[solar blade]

Then I’ll usually force Aph, might give Zeus a shot tomorrow tho since his Strike is crispy

[rocky lark]

Nah you shouldn't go for Zeus attack on aspect of Arthur since you swing so slow

[solar blade]

Hmmmm true didn’t think about that

[rocky lark]

It would barely do anything compared to say Zeus on the rail

You have slow high dmg swings so you want to take a good +% damage attack

(except Poseidon cause pushing back the thing you're tryna hit is dumb)

[solar blade]

Aphrodite’s strike always gives me pretty solid +%

[cerulean frigate]

i mean, even ignoring the awful knockback antisynergy with most of the melee stuff

the % mod on tempest strike is pathetic

[solar blade]

Language ☠️

[cerulean frigate]

and so is its pom scaling

[rocky lark]

Nah doesn't Poseidon have decent %?

[ripe crane]

No

Not on strike at least

[cerulean frigate]

the only thing lower than it is Artemis

[rocky lark]

Oh you're right sorry

[solar blade]

Aph’s and Dem’s strikes are the best imo because they have pretty good +% and force damage reduction in their own ways

[rocky lark]

Thought it was equal to Athena and Dem but it's worse

[cerulean frigate]

I don't mind divine strike

outside of the fact it does no such deflection on Lucifer

[solar blade]

If I can’t get divine dodge I’ll get strike

I just don’t like stacking a god on main boons because it can play weird with Privileged Status

Aph+Ath is the ideal combo for me tho, which is on dodge and which is attack is sort of inconsequential

[ripe crane]

Athena dodge is the best ability in the game, aph dodge kinda sucks.

[cerulean frigate]

ah yes, piercing wave or hoarding slash on Arthur. thank you sword hammers, very cool

[solar blade]

Hoarding Slash is crispy

Just don’t buy things and sell bad duos

[cerulean frigate]

no it isn't

[solar blade]

☠️

[cerulean frigate]

it's flat damage added to the very end of everything else

[solar blade]

Oh fr

[cerulean frigate]

it's at its absolute worst on arthur

[solar blade]

Saaaaf

[ripe crane]

It also doesn't affect dash attack

[cerulean frigate]

it has some nice meme potential on flurry slash but that's incompatible with arthur anyway

[solar blade]

I thought it went underneath everything else idk why

I do like Cursed Slash tho

[ripe crane]

Because that's the way it would make sense and the game doesn't tell you otherwise

Might be too good that way though

[cerulean frigate]

maybe one day everyone will recognize that parting shot is good while hoarding slash is bad

and not the other way around

[solar blade]

I mean... maybe? If you walk up to Hades with 1k gold that’s +50 underneath, say +150% on top so +150ish? But the counterbalance is that you could buy like 4 boons with that so

Parting shot is good if you are running a decent cast build and remember that your right click exists

[cerulean frigate]

the other big problem with hoarding slash is a big part of spending gold at high heat is to avoid UC hitting integral boons

sometimes you just gotta buy that common positive outlook from charon just so you don't sell your damage boons

[solar blade]

Yeah

Yeah I didn’t really think about that

I’ll keep this info in mind tomorrow when I’m going for my 32 clear, cus I thought Hoarding was big brain

Cursed and the one that makes Excalibur’s bubble bigger is probably best-of-the-best for Hammers in my situation

[cerulean frigate]

shadow or breaching slash are my favored sword hammers

the former just lets you smack really really hard

the later helps the #1 issue with melee weapons

[solar blade]

Breaching is nice, if I don’t get the chance to grab big bubble boi that’s usually what I go for

[ripe crane]

I think cursed slash is often regarded as the worst hammer in the game, at least at higher heat. Healing for 2HP is not worth losing 60% of your HP.

[cerulean frigate]

depends on how much dodge and DR you have

if you get those high enough the effective hp you get out of cursed slash is stupid

[solar blade]

Yeah for me Cursed has actually always been pretty solid, if anything its kind of a crutch for me

[bronze viper]

Cursed Slash has a usage

There are plenty of hammers without that much

[cerulean frigate]

ironically it's easiest to reach that point on Arthur because you start with lots of DR from your special

[bronze viper]

My vote is Cruel Thrust

[solar blade]

Cursed with Arthur is very nice

[cerulean frigate]

Cruel Thrust more like Cruel Bust

[solar blade]

Cursed with Arthur and something proccing Weak is even better

[edgy arrow]

my vote for worst hammer is flash fire

you need to take lucifer to get it

[bronze viper]

Why would you pick the best of Lucifer's 5 hammers though lol

[ripe crane]

But you attack so slow on Arthur, you're getting so much less use out of it.

[bronze viper]

There's so much garbage to choose from

[edgy arrow]

touché

it is the 5th worst hammer

[mossy zinc]

@sonic lily @trim sigil you don't need to quit or copy your entire profile or anything. Just gotta create profiles 2–4, then when you get to any chamber you want to practice in your main profile, copy Profile1_Temp.sav and overwrite your permanent save in any of the other slots with that (e.g., save it as Profile2.sav and it will be in slot 2). When you load slot 2, you'll start in that chamber. When you give up while still in the chamber (even upon death), you can just reload and redo the fight for practice.

[cerulean frigate]

flood shot used to be one of my least favorite casts but it's actually pretty lit. especially now that rupture does nutty damage

[ripe crane]

Actually I kind of hate all the spear hammers that affect your special. It already does so little damage that I don't really care if it now has a 50% chance to crit.

Like I know it isn't bad, but like.... it just does almost nothing.

[mossy zinc]

Exploding Launcher is really good.

[cerulean frigate]

exploding launcher solves the 2 problems with the special

[tidal flame]

Charged Skewer Exploding Launcher are good

[ripe crane]

True. I have seen that one maybe once

[cerulean frigate]

the low base damage and having to recall

[ripe crane]

I am thinking of the 400% to armor and 50% crit when you recall it

[tidal flame]

That's why you do Zag or GY

Spec build achilles and hades is omegalul

[cerulean frigate]

an the nice thing about any of the charge hammers for the weapons is it increased the base damage

[ripe crane]

Ah yeah charge special makes the guan yu spear dope

[cerulean frigate]

charged volley on the bows can hit so freaking hard

[tidal flame]

Problem is Bows with good spec build don't have access to Charged Volley, and bows that can get charged volley are better off with non-spec build.

[cerulean frigate]

tfw you almost clear an erebus gate in asphodel on arthur but then a 90% faster slam dancer comes out of nowhere

speedy worst BP mod

[mossy zinc]

What about pre-blood-price Bruiser?

[static plover]

bruiser snakestones pre blood price

[mossy zinc]

NO!

MAKE IT STOP!

[tidal flame]

I was there

[mossy zinc]

NOOO!

[cerulean frigate]

most of my playtime before 1,0 was Long Winter

[tidal flame]

Bruiser nerf was the epitome of high heat strat

[rocky lark]

Hey exploding launcher works on Hades

[tidal flame]

Compleain and wait for patch notes

[cerulean frigate]

and i quit pretty early to avoid burnout before full release

[tidal flame]

Hey exploding launcher works on Hades
I can make lightning strike work on Arthur, doesn't mean anything though. Just that there are many better things. Exploding launcher is outclassed by Serrated Point.

[bronze viper]

Exploding Launcher is excellent on Hades though lol

It's its second best hammer

[tidal flame]

I don't know about excellent tbh

[cerulean frigate]

you're talking about a 50 base damage attack being 150% boosted

and exploding launcher throws are pretty quick and safe

[tidal flame]

You need to spin before that

[cerulean frigate]

baby spin is enough for the debuff

[bronze viper]

One of @daring hedge's 50+ runs in Blood Price was on Exploding Launcher, and I have pretty equally consistent results with Serrated Point as Exploding Launcher at 40

[cerulean frigate]

and hades spins are b i g

[tidal flame]

You might as well do Serrated Point

[bronze viper]

You're sleeping on this hammer, watch his video

[tidal flame]

I did lol

[bronze viper]

Just because something is not as good as something else doesn't make it bad.

[tidal flame]

Well if you reread

[bronze viper]

lol, there was some pretty "press x to doubt" energy from your response.

[tidal flame]

Ok, it is fair that I am doubting Exploding Launcher on Hades

I guess a better statement to make is Exploding Launcher is plan B

If I was somehow forced into a spec build.

[bronze viper]

It's a 1 boon build. Deadly Flourish #done

[mossy zinc]

Flourish.

[bronze viper]

Fixt

[mossy zinc]

Then, we shall pretend I merely repeated what you said.

[bronze viper]

Flourish.

[tidal flame]

To me, if you don't set out to get something, it's a thing you settle for.

Afaik, Tail doesn't really set out to find a spec build Hades, he just rolls with what he was given

[mossy zinc]

You always settle for any hammer that you pick. You don't exactly get much choice.

[tidal flame]

Maybe we can ping him

But Exploding Launcher is still 2nd graded citizen on Hades to me

[bronze viper]

@tidal flame I totally agree with that. What I'm saying is that Exploding Launcher is a 1 boon build. It is trivial to pivot to it if you get the hammer

Heartbreak Flourish wells well too, but obviously you'd prefer Deadly to multiply the Hades bonus damage

[mossy zinc]

Exploding Launcher is probably the #2 pick for me, Serrated Point being #1.

[tidal flame]

Ok that settles it. We somewhat agree that spec build can be outdone by Serrated Point.

The only thing is by how much

[cerulean frigate]

I'd really like to model swap the Hestia and Zag rail. I like everything about Hestia other than the way it looks. and gryphon gun looks cool but zag aspect is no Eris or Hestia

[tidal flame]

This is where we can draw the line. Maybe I'm sleeping on it.

[bronze viper]

Kind of a weird question. If we're optimizing, there is no difference if Serrated Point is 1% or 1000% better than Exploding Launcher if Launcher is in 2nd place.

[mossy zinc]

You only build for any hammer once you get it, anyway.

Serrated Point offering better DPS is meaningless if you don't see it.

[tidal flame]

But by that logic everything is equal?

[bronze viper]

Also with RI2/AP1+, you end up with jank. If the Fates gives me a Special damage% boon I didn't want, and I see the option between the two, it will be mighty tempting to pick Exploding Launcher

[tidal flame]

That's why I hope AP2 will be changed

Somehow

[mossy zinc]

I'm not saying anything is equal lol.

[tidal flame]

I mean that statement doesn't help.

[cerulean frigate]

AP2: one option unavailable, one option has an HP cost to pick, the other is normal

[bronze viper]

While that's a nifty idea, that is absurdly hard to template

There isn't much real estate for complex ideas

[edgy arrow]

on SD, AP2 and AP1 would be weirdly similar as well

unless it was like, max hp or something

[mossy zinc]

I think it's a very important fact. You're talking like building for Attack over Special is somehow due to Serrated Point or something, but it's not. You just build for Attack while you don't have a hammer and then refocus your build depending on what hammers you get.

[cerulean frigate]

i would think it'd be max hp. current hp would not be a big detriment

[rocky lark]

Yeah needing to spin isn't really an issue and the debuff lasts 10 seconds iirc

[bronze viper]

Just saying, similar to if I'm playing Rama and I get... any of its large family of excellent non-Twin Shot hammers, I'm not sad I didn't get Twin Shot. I just have a different great hammer now, that is by some percentage less optimal. Similar to Exploding Launcher, if I get it early in a run, the run feels solved. It's up to me not to screw it up

[rocky lark]

I didn't go into the run planning on a special build or anything but if you get exploding launcher it's pretty good to do - like ledgermayn said you just need 1 boon to have an exploding launcher build going

[tidal flame]

Not saying it won't work, but some 1 boon build really falls off in Styx

[bronze viper]

Also until you have to start respecting CP2 DC2, Launcher has GY levels of safety. Tag enemies then pewpew from the other side of the screen forever

[tidal flame]

Be it Charged Spec GY, Deadly Strike Hestia, or solo Lightning Strike Fists.

Has anyone toppled Wriste's 23 win streak on 32 heat?

[bronze viper]

That would include Gilgamesh now

Basically a pact of punishment on that challenge

[rocky lark]

I haven't played Hestia yet but I find charged skewer GY to be pretty solid and lightning fists while not as quick as ME fists work okay, This was the run for reference https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725021639506526249/769376538394099732/unknown.png?width=785&height=442

[tidal flame]

No yeah, I do that often

I use it enough to see that in Styx, things suddenly feel a tad tankier.

[bronze viper]

Spicy build. That's some good, clean Hades right there.

[tidal flame]

Wait that's not Charged GY

[bronze viper]

Lol, it's not, but isn't it?

[rocky lark]

Also I just finished the last 32 heat! https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725021639506526249/769800957298606080/unknown.png?width=785&height=442

[edgy arrow]

i like that you saved eris for last lol

home stretch

[rocky lark]

Not sure if I'm good enough for it but I'm hoping to try getting em all to 40 now, any tips?

[bronze viper]

it's a whole lot of gud to get lol

[rocky lark]

Haha nice, I do love dark souls so maybe I'm into suffering

Is it a big jump?

[edgy arrow]

i'm in the middle of tryna get my first 40 rn

i'd say its pretty big yeah

[tidal flame]

I wonder what's the clear to failure ratio on 40+

[bronze viper]

40+ heat is pretty easily less than 1% of game's population

[tidal flame]

Someone here, I think Bablo (?), thinks that 40 can be done consistently, like 32.

[rocky lark]

Oooh that's pretty incentivising

[edgy arrow]

maybe if you're Bablo lol

[true fable]

32 is what like 10%

[rocky lark]

Top 1% would be a cool club to be in

[bronze viper]

I wasn't trying particularly hard for it but I got a 3 streak 40 heat with Rama at the start of 1.0

[tidal flame]

True lmao

[true fable]

i want to try rama at higher heats

this bow is so fun

[bronze viper]

The streak didn't end, I just moved to a different weapon and heat lol.

[tidal flame]

32 is what like 10%
I have no source but I think it's much lower than that

[true fable]

just see a bunch of green numbers whole room dead

[tidal flame]

Especially if yoy have done 6x32

[edgy arrow]

what are we counting as the playerbase tho

[rocky lark]

The single 16 heat clear achievement is still only at 4% of players unlocked

[edgy arrow]

like, most people aren't pushing heat at all

[rocky lark]

Lol

[bronze viper]

We're counting... the playerbase as the playerbase

[edgy arrow]

which is fine ofc

[bronze viper]

I'm basing the numbers off of the falloff from 8->16 heat in achievements

[edgy arrow]

but like, that's a lot of people making that number smaller

[bronze viper]

It's a dramatic falloff

[tidal flame]

What's the Epilogue %?

[edgy arrow]

lets find out

2.6%

[tidal flame]

That's p high

[edgy arrow]

honestly yeah

[tidal flame]

Hades really holds people attention huh

[loud coral]

Man sometimes I feel like a scrub but seeing the percentage of how many people actually beat 32 heat makes me feel a lot better

[bronze viper]

Can we actually see that number though?

We can speculate lol

[tidal flame]

I'm surprised that man folks did not clear it once but 10 times

My guess is 6x32 is probably about 1%

If not less

[edgy arrow]

yeah we're just guessing at the 32 numbers

[bronze viper]

Wow, that's bold. I was talking about having done 32 period

6x32 is probably 1% of 1%

Most people doing 32 are doing it for the Skelly statue

Why would they subject themselves to that 5 more times

[tidal flame]

SGG probably has the number

AMMMIRRRRR

[true fable]

at least i can feel good about clearing 32 now

:^)

[tidal flame]

You can do streaks on 32

[bronze viper]

The 6x40 club is probably double digits? Teens?

[true fable]

cleared up to 20 for the other 5 so im kinda burnt out but gonna give 32x6 a try in a bit

[tidal flame]

Double digit for sure

[true fable]

lol on hermes cup yesterday

[tidal flame]

40+ is hard

[true fable]

they were begging for more 50+ submissions

[daring hedge]

what about 6x45

[tidal flame]

they were begging for more 50+ submissions
Lower that to 45

[bronze viper]

That's a project for me at some point

[tidal flame]

Then we will.talk

[bronze viper]

I hate sword 😦

[tidal flame]

xD

[static plover]

50+ is kinda a bad breakpoint for leaderboard submissions, but we've have this discussion many times already

[tidal flame]

what about 6x45
Literally single digit

[daring hedge]

i'm kinda working on 6x50 since i got to 6x45, but it's just ridiculously harder on like

sword

to net that 50

[true fable]

what aspect even works up there

arthur?

[bronze viper]

Nemesis probably

[tidal flame]

Rama

[daring hedge]

nemesis with a lot of luck

[tidal flame]

Nemesis

[true fable]

ah

[daring hedge]

i've made it to styx a couple times already

[tidal flame]

And Hades, by Tail

[daring hedge]

the whole thing is a slog

[true fable]

sometimes it feels like a wet noodle on 32 cant imagine it feels better at 45

[bronze viper]

The issue with Nemesis is that it isn't a real weapon without Double Edge and Divine Dash.

(at very very high heat. Obv you can get away with Hunter Dash normally)

[edgy arrow]

i'm not expert, but is needing a specific hammer and divine dash at 50 really that unusual?

[bronze viper]

No, that was pretty standard for pre-1.0 meta

We as a high heat community have decided to throw off the shackles of the Approval Process regime, and lean heavily towards unseeded runs now lol.

[true fable]

as an aside, for arthur h32, is it better to take dc or cp or look elsewhere for points

[mossy zinc]

Other weapons get hammers that at least do something—even if not optimal.

Nemesis gets so many hammers that do nothing at all.

[daring hedge]

rama at least has many hammers that work out of the box, and eris for example can just do so much damage with tidal dash at 50 that it doesn't really need divine dash

[rocky lark]

I do hate the inconsistency with double edge being so powerful on Nem but the other hammers not coming close to that and some literally doing nothing/being a detriment

[mossy zinc]

You might as well get no hammer if you get Cruel Thrust.

[edgy arrow]

fair lol

rip cruel thrust

[bronze viper]

It's not that Double Edge is powerful on Nemesis. It's that you need Double Edge to be a weapon.

[tidal flame]

Imagine Cruel Thrust affects dash strike

[bronze viper]

The damage is abysmal at CP2 JS3 DC2 without it

[daring hedge]

of course i say this about rama hammers and still was offered sniper shot and relentless volley while i didn't even have a special in elysium, in my last 57 attempt

[bronze viper]

Rama's base is bae

[daring hedge]

and then got 4sacked

[true fable]

oof

[tidal flame]

Hey, at least it's not 5

[true fable]

tail i watched your 55 btw and was in physical pain when splitting headache got APed in asphodel

[mossy zinc]

At least Sniper Shot does something some of the time.

[bronze viper]

That's a hot take

[mossy zinc]

Still better than Cruel Thrust.

[bronze viper]

That's not a hot take

[daring hedge]

some of the time is a strong phrase

maybe a couple times

[mossy zinc]

That is some of the time.

[daring hedge]

fair!

[bronze viper]

It's kind of sad when Sword wishes it could have more hammers like Sniper Shot

[tidal flame]

Some of the times it works everytime.

[bronze viper]

Some of the times it works everytime.
@tidal flame

[mossy zinc]

I died in Elysium the one time I tried, but Rama 50 felt so much easier than Nemesis 40 lol.

[bronze viper]

Nemesis 40 was some of the hardest Hades I've played, period. Unclear how much of that was pilot vs. weapon

Though seeing 32 4x40 49 was very tilting. Luckily in 1.0 I have a very aesthetically pleasing 5x40 50.

Noooo, I have a 43.

[tidal flame]

Imagine ruining your perfect 6x32 for some odd runs

Smh my head

[daring hedge]

yeah ok mister 42 hestia

[cerulean frigate]

is there a reference for how rarity/rarity increasing rooms and items work? like how much does yarn of ariande increase your chances, what's rarity like in miniboss and erebus rooms, etc

[daring hedge]

we know your lineup isn't perfect

[tidal flame]

@daring hedge ik you are just jelly, it's ok

I can share my save file if you want ;)

[bronze viper]

Is it Hell Mode?

[daring hedge]

everyone dm foxhope for his maxed hell mode save

[tidal flame]

No lol, I'm just teasing Tail

[bronze viper]

Does one exist in the known universe?

[tidal flame]

Not that I know of.

[bronze viper]

Figured

[daring hedge]

i know someone had one... museus? i think?

not 100% sure

[bronze viper]

He was slain for his treasures

He will be missed

[cerulean frigate]

finally maxed out all the companions https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/672255458144419841/769813262547419146/SPOILER_unknown.png

you can't convince me there is another

because it involves leveling zag sword

[hollow lynx]

[bronze viper]

Impressive, you've managed to save 5 blood

And 10 Ambrosia

Well played.

[cerulean frigate]

5 blood that could go into something like demeter or chaos, yeah

[tidal flame]

Seems good.

Nice complete collection

[hollow lynx]

doesn't seem right, boyo...

[mental hearth]

I blew the 5 blood and ambrosia. Still never used him

I’m team antos now though

[loud coral]

Still team Meg because I need an instakill and Bouldy doesn't deal enough damage

[mossy zinc]

Skelly is a good summon.

[loud coral]

Also haven't unlocked Antos yet, I actually freed Achilles but I just need to finish a run before he'll actually say something about it

[wanton plover]

r/misleadingnames

[mossy zinc]

?

[loud coral]

reddit moment

Also wow, Middle Management is either an absolute joke or a run-ender

[mossy zinc]

MM in the Temple of Styx is very nasty.

[twilit orbit]

i feel like the miniboss that I consistently take the most extra damage versus with MM turned on is the megagorgon

[mossy zinc]

You gotta burn a summon for that fight, but it's not too bad.

Just wastes too much time otherwise.

[cerulean frigate]

mostly what ends my run is 90% faster enemies in tartarus

[mossy zinc]

Although, if you have Smoldering Air and Aphrodite's Aid, the Megagorgon is very deady very quickly.

[cerulean frigate]

or em4 dad

i can't remember the last time it ended in asphodel, feels like if you make it out of tartarus you're at least making it to elysium

[mossy zinc]

What Speeders are killing you in Tartarus?

[cerulean frigate]

pretty much any of them. i don't got the reaction time

[mossy zinc]

Hmm. Why do you play with FO2 then if that's killing you?

[cerulean frigate]

because i can do 20 and 40% at this point

it's tough but i've won multiple runs that way

it's just throwing another 50% on elites is dumb

[mossy zinc]

It's also not just reactions. E.g., I don't react to Speeder Wringers. I just know their behavior, so I can dash ahead of time.

Ain't nobody reacting to Speeder Wringers lol.

[devout grove]

finally maxed out all the companions https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/672255458144419841/769813262547419146/SPOILER_unknown.png
@cerulean frigate
I really@don’t have a clue how to get them I

I’m already 17 hours in the game and I feel like I ‘waste’ time

[ruby cipher]

i have 200 and Dusa still refuses to receive gifts

tell me about it

[ripe crane]

Sounds like you need to ||upgrade the lounge||

[trim sigil]

Mild wonder: is there any reason why Eris rail doesn't melt the heat records rn? RI, TD3?

Being rail, maybe?

[mossy zinc]

I'd just rather play anything else than Eris, personally.

bablo is just doing speedruns for now. Tailesque is working on sword 50 next. haelian, I think, is only playing shields for 50+ at the moment? I dunno. horheristo isn't playing at all for now. And I dunno what ledgerdamayn is working on, actually.

I got school again tomorrow, and midterms are starting; and I didn't really care for 50+ at all for the two weeks I got to play lol.

[trim sigil]

When you put it at that angle, it makes pretty solid sense, yeah

[mossy zinc]

Nobody else is even submitting anything now, I think.

You could do some Eris runs. Why not?

[trim sigil]

Personally I don't feel motivated to do 50ish runs with eris because 1) rail and 2) it's got to be nerfed in current state

[mossy zinc]

TD3 is definitely not a problem for Eris.

Yeah, but why not put out some records before it gets nerfed, and then be like "try to beat my record" after it got nerfed. Wins you every argument.

Btw try to beat my 52 Beowulf, and then we can talk. 👸🏽

[trim sigil]

Well, dead serious answer would be because i tend to argue for the truth, not for the assertion of dominance

[mossy zinc]

Why not both?

[trim sigil]

They tend to be mutually exclusive at times

Either way, beo isn't my bowl of soup, zag shield lesgooo

[mossy zinc]

Not if truth is whatever you say it is because you win. 👸🏽

I don't know if I just didn't play for too long, but I actually do worse at RI3 40 now with Beowulf than I did at 56 before 1.0 lol.

I actually haven't played the aspect much since 1.0, either.

Probably less than 10 runs?

[astral swift]

Eris is getting nerfed?

I thought the next patch didn't mention it

[trim sigil]

Given how the charged flight was a core tool pre-1.0, the playstyle changed drastically

Eris isn't nerfed, but honestly should be

[astral swift]

No I said getting :P

and yeah I know

[trim sigil]

Yeah figured

[astral swift]

just nyaa said "could do a few runs before it gets nerfed"

thought that's what she meant

[mossy zinc]

I feel like there is no way it's not getting nerfed.

[astral swift]

Yeah that's fair

Is merciful end the typical build for fists in high heat or no?

trying to figure out what i'm missing cause i suck with them rofl. trying to get better but ye

[trim sigil]

It would be if not for RI1 AP2 killing any feasible chance to get ME

[mossy zinc]

It's actually not that typical. You just start with the Owl Pendant and then pick up either Divine Strike, Curse of Agony, or Lightning Strike and definitely Divine Dash.

[astral swift]

yeah athena punches strike me as really good on fistd

fists even

mostly can't figure out what a good special to run on it is tbh. I lean towards aphrodite but is artemis better?

[trim sigil]

If that's demeter fists, then maybe

[astral swift]

demeter yeah

[mossy zinc]

If you have Divine Strike? You'll want Deadly Flourish for Support Fire and Deadly Reversal.

But it's not like you say no if you get offered Heartbreak Flourish.

[astral swift]

Right. Makes sense

Which god keepsakes do you usually run with it? Athena first obviously but I meant in Asphodel and/or Elysium

[trim sigil]

Elysium is usually acorn unless you feeling lucky

[astral swift]

(sorry for all the qs haha. First game I've really had any interest in going for speedrunning etc in so I'm trying to get better for sure)

[mossy zinc]

Owl Pendant > Acorn > Acorn > Acorn
Owl Pendant > Pointed Arrowhead > Acorn > Acorn

[astral swift]

Acorn for the Hydra? Huh

[mossy zinc]

Yeah.

[astral swift]

I guess that's fair the lava is a pain in the ass

[mossy zinc]

No, it's the head slams lol.

Maybe Thunder Signet or Blood-filled Vial in Asphodel depending on what you get in Tartarus.

But Acorn is always a good pick for Malphon in Asphodel.

[astral swift]

Oh true

[static plover]

If you're deadset on going fast, ||Hades|| keepsake isn't a bad choice for elysium and styx

It's just risky

[astral swift]

What makes it good? I had written that keepsake almost completely off tbh

[static plover]

+100% Universal damage

And cuts off your call, so limits boon pools slightly making it easier to refine your build

[mossy zinc]

Sigil hasn't been working too well for me at high heat.

[astral swift]

Oh true it's 100%? Didn't know that.

[trim sigil]

Worth noting that the dmg bonus is for 2 seconds, not 1 hit, too

[static plover]

High heat, way too risky

[astral swift]

that's only with greater right?

[static plover]

Greater is 5

[trim sigil]

Granted, I don't see a way to incorporate it in high heat runs either

[astral swift]

No I meant the 100%

[trim sigil]

100% always

[static plover]

Nope it's both

[astral swift]

Oh cool

[mossy zinc]

I'd consider taking it if I have Smoldering Air.

[astral swift]

smoldering air is so good ugh.

I mean most of the duos are but jeez

[static plover]

I can't see ||hades|| keepsake ever being great at high heat with how risky it is

[agile thorn]

question: given that this is a late-game room, what's the policy on spoilers?

[mossy zinc]

It's not inherently risky in any way.

It's just not Acorn.

[trim sigil]

Yeah

[static plover]

It resets attack animations

[astral swift]

what makes it risky, ca-- yeah

that's what I meant

is it just that it's not acorn

wait enemy attack animations or yours?

[static plover]

That's why it's risky

Enemy

[trim sigil]

Well, it does reset attack animations, which can be good as well if you time it to reset a deadly attack

or at least neutral

[astral swift]

i forget do all calls do that or is that a ||hades|| exclusive

er

[trim sigil]

Aphrodite kiiiinda does that too

[astral swift]

yeah but her call sucks ass

[mossy zinc]

@agile thorn

Can you take the heat? Come chat strategies for taking on the underworld at its most hellish. Spoilers allowed.

[agile thorn]

@mossy zinc missed that >_<
thanks

[trim sigil]

I'd not be so critical about aphro call tbh
it can do some heavy lifting

[astral swift]

I mean all calls are better than no call at all

[agile thorn]

I'm after some fun build ideas for the Lucifer rail that aren't "spam lightning"

[trim sigil]

Just that gotta be careful about it

[astral swift]

but I definitely feel like it's the weakest

[static plover]

It definitely ain't the weakest

[mossy zinc]

Aphrodite's Aid does a ton of work.

[trim sigil]

Making a chariot brrrr its way into hades body may let you reconsider that

[astral swift]

lmao fair

what's the weakest, then?

zeus?

[trim sigil]

Depends on context but personally I have been hating on ares a lot without legendary

[mossy zinc]

Demeter's Aid is terrible.

[astral swift]

Right yeah that one sucks. forgot about demeter's tbh

ares is alright if for no other reason than temporary invulnerability

[mossy zinc]

Ares' Aid at least works as a budget Athena's Aid.

[trim sigil]

Hmm, demeter always acted like free dmg and free 10 chill in my mind tbh. Not the best, not the worst

[astral swift]

yeah exactly

[mossy zinc]

"Damage."

[astral swift]

just get demeter's revenge instead

[mossy zinc]

300 lol.

[astral swift]

forget its name

but it's great

[trim sigil]

Still better than 0ish from ares

[astral swift]

again, invulnerability

[trim sigil]

or said 300 in melee range

[astral swift]

demeter doesn't give that

[trim sigil]

All calls give brief invulnerability tho

[edgy arrow]

ares call has a way shorter range than melee lol

[astral swift]

i mean yeah there's i-frames but his is like 2 seconds or whatever of invincible not just the frames

[trim sigil]

1.2s

[mossy zinc]

I don't actually care which one is worse. I'm selling both.

[astral swift]

that's the one

lmao same

[edgy arrow]

usually i can melee things without being inside them

[trim sigil]

I usually don't sell calls because they drop once in a millenia

[astral swift]

part of the reason I hate going for merciful end is cause it means I have to look for ares boons which is like ugh

urge to kill is good

and then everything else is hard mediocre

[edgy arrow]

but yeah true; selling either way so who cares lol

[mossy zinc]

Aphrodite's Aid is 67% of the requirements for Smoldering Air. That already makes it top tier.

[astral swift]

67%? Isn't it just 50%?

[trim sigil]

the only thing that stops it from being busted is antisynergy with said smoldering air

[mossy zinc]

No, 67%.

[edgy arrow]

the prereqs are call, aphro boon, zeus boon

so yeah its two of those

[astral swift]

Oh right

[trim sigil]

You need
Aphro ✅
Zeus
Call ✅

[astral swift]

Fair enough

[edgy arrow]

can you smoldering air with dad keepsake

[astral swift]

i guess that's why zeus' call isn't hated

[edgy arrow]

just a random thought

[astral swift]

yes

[mossy zinc]

Yes, but it doesn't work as a requirement.

[trim sigil]

Zeus call is great even outside the air tbh

[astral swift]

well if you have his legendary it's amazing

but otherwise eh

[mossy zinc]

You have to sell your Call and then equip it.

[edgy arrow]

yeah was wondering if it worked as a prereq

didn't really think it would

[astral swift]

wait do the prereqs stay met even if you sell a boon?

[static plover]

No

[astral swift]

ok cause i was like that makes merciful end easier rofl

[mossy zinc]

Zeus' Aid smacks hard. I dunno what you're talking about. DPS is only second to Dionysus' Aid.

[edgy arrow]

zeus call is top tier lol

[astral swift]

really? fair enough. I guess I just haven't used it much

[trim sigil]

Don't forget an opened road to billowing strength

which is also quite blessed

[astral swift]

True billowing strength is great

Alright. What about cast wise? I tend to get trippy shot whenever I can but I don't know if that's the right call since it wastes boiling blood etc

[mossy zinc]

Yeah, but Billowing Strength has nothing on Bad Influence. That boon is insane with Dionysus' Aid.

If you get Smoldering Air with Bad Influence and Dionysus' Aid, I actually don't know how you're gonna lose.

You have to be playing Zag sword to lose that run.

[trim sigil]

By meeting only 2 enemies

EM3

[mossy zinc]

But you still have Smoldering Air and Dionysus' Aid.

They die so fast to that.

[astral swift]

I had athena's aid + second wind one time. That was hilarious. Basically perpetually either invincible or high dodge chance.

but haven't gotten smoldering air with dio yet

[edgy arrow]

just smoldering with absolutely anything makes asterius a billion times easier

[trim sigil]

Ain't gonna deny that part, although surprised there isn't a run to utilize that at best

[mossy zinc]

@astral swift I actually don't care about Cast.

[astral swift]

no?

[mossy zinc]

I just take whatever I need for Duo Boons.

[edgy arrow]

yeah have fun charging into my i-frames, bull friend

[trim sigil]

Probably the AP2 doing, once again

[mossy zinc]

Unless I'm doing a Cast build.

[astral swift]

Right, makes sense

[mossy zinc]

It's hard to get specifically Smoldering Air + Dionysus' Aid. Lots of things that need to fall into place for that.

[astral swift]

Oh I know, I get it.

I just haven't been lucky enough yet

[mossy zinc]

The best thing about Bad Influence is that Hades actually helps you kill him faster if he spams skulls.

[sonic lily]

@mossy zinc thanks for the save copy tip. now i can get my EM4 practice on

[mossy zinc]

Good luck!

[mossy zinc]

I found an old screenshot. https://imgur.com/a/myR8i4s

[sonic oasis]

are there any suggestions for best heat build up since I'm doing 25+

[mossy zinc]

Anything but EM4 AP or RI.

They should add this one to the history books. https://imgur.com/a/qvoLc8P

[astral swift]

^athena's aid and evasion chance increase is seriously such a good combo

[mossy zinc]

That was my first 32 Heat 5 months ago.

[ebon night]

What's that increased trap damage one?

I do not like it

Lost two DDs to Styx and then Hades one shot me with a green urn

Shouldn't even be a trap

[edgy arrow]

Heightened Security

[ripe crane]

Don't take HS ever

[edgy arrow]

yup if you ask me it’s a joke it’s only worth 1 heat

150 damage urns? hard nope

[ebon night]

150 damage urn yeah

I'm trying to get all the achievements

[mossy zinc]

yup if you ask me it’s a joke it’s only worth 1 heat
And a good one.

[edgy arrow]

hilarious

[ebon night]

so I need to beat him with the heightened security at least once

[solar blade]

HS in Asphodel is my worst nightmare

[trim sigil]

HS EM2

[mossy zinc]

"Oh, it's 1 Heat for +400% Trap damage. I should take that."

[edgy arrow]

“i’ll just not step on traps, ezpz”

[ebon night]

I would've won if urns weren't traps

[trim sigil]

Clearly it's only 1 heat to not make athena SSSSSSS++ tier instead of SSS

[ebon night]

how is it a trap?

it's one of his attacks

that's like saying festive fog is a trap

[solar blade]

I t. I s

[trim sigil]

There is nothing to prove it isn't a trap tbf

Because enemies don't take amplified trap dmg

[bronze viper]

His Urns are not affected by Hard Labor

[solar blade]

I feel like if HS is going to be only 1H then they need to make it do bonus dmg to enemies too

[ebon night]

I would've won if not for the urn

[mossy zinc]

Spam Blizzard Shots > spam Magnet Cutter is hilarious.

I should play Talos way more.

[ebon night]

I finally got all my hammer upgrades

[honest kernel]

i feel like most of the time i don't mind HS

and most runs it doesn't bother me much
it's just.. when it does...

[mossy zinc]

Yeah, most of the time. For like 99% of the run until you die to a 150-damage urn.

[honest kernel]

or one of those bouncey bomb thrower boys in Styx waltzes over a pressure plate offscreen

hello axeblade

[mossy zinc]

I've also had some amazing Guan Yu high-heat runs very suddenly end in the Temple of Styx lol.

[honest kernel]

oof. I'm decidedly not a Guan Yu fan for reasons such as that

cool as it is

[mossy zinc]

HAHAHA NOTHING CAN STOP M—ZING!—oh . . .

[honest kernel]

it also took me around 80 escape attempts before I finally started to look out for the spear traps in Elysium
i'm never looking at walls, just floors

[mossy zinc]

You should play Guan Yu in the test branch. It feels really cool.

[honest kernel]

oh? what's changing about it?

oh never mind i found it

[mossy zinc]

• Aspect of Guan Yu: can now 'dash' between strikes, attack damage increased

[honest kernel]

I suppose. I'm more a fan of Hades spear--sometimes just for the AoE increase and not even the damage boost

though I recently discovered Achilles as a cast-centric style

[edgy arrow]

trying to envision how that GY change would work

sounds kinda like arthur?

[mossy zinc]

lol going from practicing Guan Yu for a couple weeks to doing 40 Heat with Hades Aspect was like taking off training weights.

[hollow lynx]

it's like arthur, yeah

[honest kernel]

apparently it's like Arthur yea

[mossy zinc]

Kinda, yeah.

You should just try it! And maybe give them some feedback on what you like or don't like about it.

[honest kernel]

lol, using a tougher aspect as a form of training. interesting approach

[hollow lynx]

though the singular pointed hitbox doesn't sound too great with a dash-carrying approach

[edgy arrow]

yeah maybe i should get into the test branch stuff

[mossy zinc]

I feel like I'm the only one writing any feedback on the test branch currently lol. Well, ledgerdamayn wrote a couple things, I guess.

[honest kernel]

hrm. guan yu does 40-40-70 on live, but with higher damage being able to carry a 3rd strike does sound appealing

even if it's not the beefy 200 that Arthur gets

[mossy zinc]

It's probably the last time we can help them with any feedback like that for the final polish.

Yeah, it's 50 > 62 > 100 in the test branch.

[honest kernel]

oho

interesting

[edgy arrow]

that’s a decent amount

ngl i usually forget GY has an attack lol

[honest kernel]

lol

real talk? if Guan Yu just
didn't have a heal, and also didn't have the health debuff
I would like it a lot

the moveset is fine, I just don't like the HP mechanic

[mossy zinc]

Was 112 in the first iteration. Might have changed again since I dunno lol. I think it's like the Blood Price beta where we just get some of their latest builds with all the back-and-forth tuning.

[honest kernel]

my deaths tend to be less about getting whittled down and more about making a drastic mistake or two

so small bits of healing aren't very helpful for me most of the time

I guess with dodge/DR it's far stronger, but on higher heats I'm not gonna count on that

[edgy arrow]

idk if i’m just bad (i mean, i am) but the healing spin mostly feels like a trap at FO2

[honest kernel]

oh god yeah

[mossy zinc]

Actually, nah. You kind of wanna ignore Dodge/DR on Guan Yu.

[honest kernel]

oh, really?

[mossy zinc]

If you want a build like that, just take Excalibur.

It does way more for that.

Or Zag Aspect Malphon.

[honest kernel]

i was moreover thinking the ability to face-tank while charging, with the hammer mod that gives you Sturdy

and then heal back immediately

[mossy zinc]

Guan Yu is a glass cannon and will remain a glass canon. You just wanna get high damage on it and no-hit things tbh.

[honest kernel]

with enough DR, you could ignore smaller attacks and immediately heal back the damage

[mossy zinc]

Which is very doable with its Special.

[honest kernel]

mm

[mossy zinc]

But 40+ is pretty brutal.

I'd definitely avoid FO as much as possible with it. Makes things way easier.

Although FO1 can be alright.

FO0 HL5 is actually very doable with it.

[honest kernel]

I've only attempted 32 for the Skelly rewards, but it got me interested in pushing higher
which is what got me to investigate this server/channel

[edgy arrow]

HL5 GY omg

[mossy zinc]

I think Guan Yu is like the most-used aspect for Pierced Butterfly runs. That's kind of how you want to play it. Don't get hit lol.

[edgy arrow]

is that just like, one hit kills you?

i mean, i understand the logic it’s just a little terrifying

[mossy zinc]

HL5 FO0 is pretty free. If I no-hit HL0 FO0 or HL5 FO0 kinda makes no difference.

And you can actually take DDs for it even with LC4, so you can make more mistakes.

[honest kernel]

i'm a gun main myself, and Pierced Butterfly usually nets me 30-36 by the end
and then I wonder why I don't just run Distant Memory

[edgy arrow]

would you go LC4 and SD on it?

[mossy zinc]

Because Pierced Butterfly is a global damage buff lol.

[hollow lynx]

playing ranged weapons at range?

[mossy zinc]

I dunno tbh. I haven't quite figured out Guan Yu for 40+ yet lol.

[honest kernel]

i mean yeah I get Butterfly's global appeal

[edgy arrow]

fair enough

[hollow lynx]

melee everything always

[mossy zinc]

I thought Eris was a dash weapon.

[bronze viper]

It's a lot of "don't get hit" lol

[honest kernel]

i think the biggest issue I have with Butterfly/Plume is the inability to force god RNG

though, Plume with Zag Fists is pretty amusing

but I find myself always wanting to swap keepsakes throughout a run

[edgy arrow]

that’s ‘cause keepsake swapping is the prostrat

[mossy zinc]

I've been thinking I would actually everything on Guan Yu at 40+ except HL FO LC. Maybe that would work lol.

Maybe with FO1.

[bronze viper]

Including DC?

[mossy zinc]

Yeah, Guan Yu doesn't have issues really with clearing fast.

But right now my take on Guan Yu 40+ is just take Hades Aspect lol.

[bronze viper]

Yeah I was about to say, if you aren't spear chucking from across the universe then you're just using dash strikes to clear DC hearts and playing an awful squishy Hades lmao

[mossy zinc]

Playing Guan Yu at 40+ and then playing Hades Aspect at 40+ is like.

https://media1.tenor.com/images/64daf7b6b5d21b5dc5bc7aa018f7ccb9/tenor.gif

[bronze viper]

I did not know that was a thing lol.

[mossy zinc]

I'm just trying to use the gif function.

[bronze viper]

You are meming too quickly for Proxybot's taste. Please control yourself.

[honest kernel]

lol

[mossy zinc]

https://tenor.com/view/ultra-instinct-goku-dbs-gif-11805676

There.

Transformation from Guan Yu to Hades Aspect complete.

[honest kernel]

so, in other words

the best way to prepare for heat 40+
is to just run heat 63 a bunch of times

and then lower it

[bronze viper]

Lol, that's the 1.0 approach for learning non-EM4 Dad. Just kill yourself on EM4 a bunch. Now the fight is free.

[ripe crane]

I have been grinding out 40s the past couple days. Then I played a few 32s yesterday and felt unstoppable.

[mossy zinc]

I mean, I practiced 50 Heat with Zag Aspect Malphon during summer, and then switched to Talos, took HL5 down to HL0 and did 45 Heat first try lol. So yeah, that kinda works.

[honest kernel]

excellent

time to suffer

[bronze viper]

Though now my muscle memory is primed and ready for Dad to do something after he spins in non-EM4, and I just end up wasting all of that DPS time.

[honest kernel]

actually, i never really thought of not running HS, because it felt free to me--but there seem to be different opinions here
so that has me wondering: which Pact options do y'all consider "avoid at all costs" in a general sense for all weapons?

[mossy zinc]

It feels so weird now doing 32 for a chill run like it's nothing.

Dark Foresight too strong.

[honest kernel]

the mirror/boon-related ones spook me and i never run those

[bronze viper]

HS is "free." When you start stacking a bunch of pacts it is virtually never on the chopping block

[mossy zinc]

In my days, we had to go through blue laurel rewards for our boons.

[bronze viper]

It is impactful in several situations, but yeah.

[mossy zinc]

Nowadays you just get boons every chamber.

And Centaur Hearts or Obols or whatever when you don't.

That you can then spend on more boons.

[honest kernel]

maximum boonage is definitely my modus operandi

[bronze viper]

the mirror/boon-related ones spook me and i never run those
@honest kernel That's an appropriate response. They are definitely some of the most impactful pacts. There is a threshold when taking them is more amenable than, say, more health or mobs with TD3, though.

Or EM4 lol

RI2 is way easier than EM4

[honest kernel]

but i like EM4

[bronze viper]

Then take it! That's the great thing about the game lol.

[honest kernel]

hearing that 3rd phase of the music swap in is like
the best part

[mossy zinc]

I think me talking about how strong Dark Foresight is kind of implies how hard RI1 hits lol.

[ripe crane]

I did my 40s with EM4, makes for very satisfying successes. Go for it imo.

[edgy arrow]

i love the EM4 fight

[honest kernel]

i mean you are probably right, could be better without it

[mossy zinc]

But RI2 doesn't really matter if you're already picking RI1.

[edgy arrow]

i’ve only run it about a dozen times tho

[bronze viper]

Right? Lol, I haven't taken RI1 since pre-1.0

[mossy zinc]

RI3 is brutal.

[bronze viper]

RI1 is worth way more than 2 heat but RI2 is pretty appropriate at 4

[edgy arrow]

it’s just impractically difficult with other stuff lol

[honest kernel]

ever since i've gotten heat 10 on all weapons, the only times I've not run EM4 are on attempted speedruns

[mossy zinc]

That's because RI1 is probably worth 4 Heat in difficulty, and RI2 is also 4 lol.

[bronze viper]

Ah, that explains it. EM4 at 10 Heat is difficult but approachable

[honest kernel]

mm

i'm new to high heat gameplay

only done so on gun

[mossy zinc]

How high?

[bronze viper]

EM4 with FO2, HL5, CPx, TD3 is... something

[honest kernel]

I've gotten 1-20 all out of the way only on gun, and then 32 for the Skelly thing

got 32 on my second try, had me wanting a bit more

all other weapons are like, 11-14

lol

[mossy zinc]

Just EM4 FO2 TD3 alone is something with how fast he heals lol.

[honest kernel]

actually, shield might still be sub-10 for me

[mossy zinc]

If you're not constantly aggressive in that fight, you're just gonna time out.

[bronze viper]

It's very stressful. I don't feel safe unless I have like 5 solid minutes for the fight.

[honest kernel]

i can only imagine lol

[mossy zinc]

He still heals for 1500 with CP, right?

So at least that doesn't go up.

[bronze viper]

The thing is, you never have 5 minutes with TD3 lol, so you have to play extremely recklessly and aggressively

[edgy arrow]

forget TD3, the time barrier for EM4 CP2 is me dying of old age before hades goes down

[mossy zinc]

Unless you're @daring hedge. Then you probably have 5 minutes and some.

With Sniper Shot and Repulsive Shot and no Attack boon.

[honest kernel]

lol

[edgy arrow]

sniper shot is clearly op

[bronze viper]

I really can't even believe the times he achieves at 52+ with sheer garbage lol

[edgy arrow]

they should push the range further out

clearly needs a nerf