Sometimes people come here asking for help with 3 Heat.
#h1-high-heat-strategies
trim sigil
Tbh while acorn expires in p1 pretty much, spear has a bit less potency but is still a thing in p2 and p3
limpid nymph
It would make me feel better if 3 heat was high 
ember bronze
I posted speed here occasionally since it's similar enough 😛
Also Eris makes it easy enough to not die that you should just play FO2
daring hedge
spearpoint is good for like, soul catcher butterflies and just half of the summons in phase 1 in general
ember bronze
for the time save
mossy zinc
@daring hedge is just looking down at my sub-55 Heat. 
mossy zinc
ember bronze
With the savings from faster mob spawns you'd have beaten my 8:50 😉
true fable
i dont make the rules
trim sigil
Hmm, now I'm interested: how many attempts out there died to lasers in p2/p3
mossy zinc
@true fable only @daring hedge is allowed to say that. 🔫 
true fable
trim sigil
And yeah btw @mossy zinc now you are obligated to sub10 every weapon
daring hedge
mossy zinc
1v1 in the courtyard. We'll see what's low heat. 🛡️ 🐈⬛
true fable
i actually kind of like the lasers because at least that means he wont swing at me 🙂
daring hedge
i don't think i've lost an EM4 attempt to lasers ever
but i have lost 80 health to two ticks, which is also bad
mossy zinc
@trim sigil yeah, I was already thinking the same. Stupid me taking Eris for sub 12 smh. Now I have to do it with all weapons.
ripe crane
Really feels like there should be a speedrunning channel here tbh
true fable
theres a speedrunning discord
sly remnant
oof. haelian just got butterfly ball'd on 50 heat chaos shield
mossy zinc
Yeah, speedrunners have their own discord, so I don't think that's gonna happen.
daring hedge
haose shield 
limpid nymph
I've never died to lasers, but I've dashed behind a pillar only for dad to snipe the jar behind me and obliterate me
true fable
YES
ripe crane
Ya but I just want all hades talk to be consolidated. Switching to another discord is dumb
true fable
its why i almost always go for hugs now
limpid nymph
well I play with EM4 a bunch
true fable
not worth hiding to get blown up by skulls/jars
limpid nymph
so it's a little hard
ember bronze
What's the butterfly ball issue?
lost otter
so it's a little hard
@limpid nymph with FO2?
ember bronze
Yeah, you have to clear the back of a pillar for it to be safe
limpid nymph
yep
daring hedge
i would think chaos shield wouldn't care too much about soul catcher
mossy zinc
I would be 31st if I had recorded my first-ever Eris speedrun. I'm practically a pro.
ember bronze
yeah
@mossy zinc Same thing, I got an 8:50 but I usually don't stream. I'm going to be obsessive about getting something better with stream on now
trim sigil
On em4 hugs are rather a dance with death
ember bronze
I don't intended to grind speed a lot, but it's a really fun diversion when I don't feel like doing hard stuff
I got into it a few days last week
lost otter
looks like haelian dont play at shield. forgot about he can block lasers. and just run and eat damage
true fable
sad i just broke 11 min with eris/fists
limpid nymph
turns out dad's never been a hugger. no wonder he and zag didn't get along
mossy zinc
I'll go for sub 10 sometime far in the future. I'll probably do some 40+ before school starts again. Dunno. Need to get back to studying this week, anyway.
wraith imp
"HI GUYSM."
I just died to EM4 Hades on 50 heat to these annoying green pots. Welp.
"So how's you're day going?"
trim sigil
Tbf I would also avoid hugs from rather pesky son with infernal arms in hands
ember bronze
I have a busy work month, but WFH and still have a lot of time to play
true fable
@mossy zinc for the build you just posted did you cast that much
trim sigil
My day is great aside from dying on 16 heat like a baby
mossy zinc
Getting sub 12 was just for casual fun. I don't care too much about speedruns except for practicing rotations and research.
Cast? I think I pressed Cast once or twice for jokes lol.
wraith imp
My day is great aside from dying on 16 heat like a baby
@trim sigil
What weapon aspect?
ember bronze
It's a neat way to play the game that will keep me busy stratgezing a new thing
true fable
why zag over nemesis
ember bronze
I don't really want to get into grinding Eris a lot now that I mostly understand it, but sort of annoyed by my best clear not being recorded
trim sigil
Because experimenting
true fable
fair enuf
mossy zinc
Eris is so boring lol. Good enough for a chill no-brain run before going to sleep, though.
true fable
yeah i think the novelty is wearing off for me with eris
wraith imp
it's kind of annoying that none of the zag aspects are relatively mediocre...
trim sigil
Grinding bounties is extremely tedious so I try to do some dumb stuff in the meantime
Recently tried blizzard shot which is extremely wonky but also potent
daring hedge
it's kind of annoying that none of the zag aspects are relatively mediocre...
i'm guessing you meant to word this differently lol
ember bronze
Eris is so fast and easy, but pretty fun if you want to try speed with a lot of time investment
trim sigil
Mediocre is below decent/medium so it sounds weird ye
mossy zinc
Only a handful of Rail bounties are left for me now.
ember bronze
Merciful End is pretty fun too, but still more resetting
I finally finished my bounties a few days ago, but I have too much TB
true fable
oh ok i was like
ember bronze
Eris Sea Storm, and ME Fists, are easy and fun ways to learn speed
true fable
yeah theyre both pretty fun once you get used to it
quasi panther
For you heat chasers, do you play on M+KB or Controller?
daring hedge
you'll want to keep a fair amount of TB for resource director titles though
ember bronze
I checked, it's like 1 per full tier?
mossy zinc
I'm pretty sure most play on pad, but I don't think it matters what you play on.
daring hedge
yeah
ember bronze
so 10 total possible to spend on that, and 10 for a theme
mossy zinc
Pad is better on my hands.
ember bronze
Darkness is the only limiting reagent for badges
I'm annoyed there's a Darkness theme now, because it's the coolest one, but stalls me on badges
true fable
eris is literally leading my right hand into a shallow grave
mossy zinc
Yeah, a game is not worth hurting my hands over.
daring hedge
i mean, same for me, yes. but saying darkness is objectively the only limiting factor for badges isn't true
true fable
lifetime of playing ssbm has already done that for me unfortunately
wraith imp
you'll want to keep a fair amount of TB for resource director titles though
@daring hedge
What is the highest title possible?
Is it the golden thing haelian has right now? (If so, I'd rather not get it.) I like the look of other badges more.
mossy zinc
Haelian has the highest badge, yes.
ember bronze
True, but I think for most people with normal resource economy, they'll be waiting on darkness and always have enough of the other stuff
trim sigil
Aren't there 2 themes for TB, 10 and 15?
daring hedge
i took out darkness from FA in my mirror to pay for the infinite theme asap because i wanted it fast lol
ember bronze
I'm stuck on Sigma Cleaner which is such a weird name, but saving for the theme, heh
I always stay on Sigma because it's a name I use somewhere else
ember bronze
And I guess Cleaner is okay with the crossed swords
mossy zinc
With all these 50+ runs lately in 1.0, I'm just waiting for @surreal geode to once again come out of nowhere and drop a 60 Heat WR and then vanish again lol.
waxen relic
i've intentionally stopped at Alpha Agent
wraith imp
With all these 50+ runs lately in 1.0, I'm just waiting for @surreal geode to once again come out of nowhere and drop a 60 Heat WR and then vanish again lol.
@mossy zinc
he's the stealth master at that.
<new unseeded WR incoming>
waxen relic
Alliterations 🙂
wraith imp
The Bobby Fischer of heat-runners
wraith imp
is there a list?
daring hedge
ember bronze
Maybe after theme I'll just save up for Sigma Dusk--the bird thing isn't bad
trim sigil
I wonder if there is a calc out there for all meaningful unlocks with ambrosia/titan blood/diamonds
wraith imp
LOL. I need another 162,000 more darkness to max out?
"BRUH"
wraith imp
lol, i'm frazzled
ember bronze
The game mostly does a good job of making those resources work smoothly
wraith imp
162,000 darkness
ember bronze
Though if I were giving feedback, if it still mattered now, I'd argue the broker isn't very useful most of the time
mossy zinc
I guess I gotta stop at Alpha One since I'm from the Alpha Academy.
daring hedge
what?
ember bronze
The school in SoCal?
trim sigil
I'm mostly baffled at that you could restart runs 24/7 by killing zag and probably get better resource income through limited offers than playing the game
wraith imp
i actually care more about getting 100 ambrosia and 100 titan blood than maxing out the resource badge director title
i intentionally hoard gold on most runs just to buy the titan blood in styx
i do it for no good reason
bronze viper
162,000 heat
@daring hedge You're so rich. you could just barely afford Fated Authority
daring hedge
going conch shell for ocean's bounty and taking chaos for eclipse is probably faster overall still
ember bronze
True, I could do that to convert my ambrosia and TB into 500 darkness each
but inflating my play count with fake plays offends my OCD about records, heh
trim sigil
i intentionally hoard gold on most runs just to buy the titan blood in styx
every my run past like 3rd clear was literally golden touch and accumulating 1200 gold by temple of styx
Probably a reason why I lost a bunch but w/e
bronze viper
I tried that when I was new but I was too bad to not spend gold to win
ember bronze
Yeah, I had a long period when farming up the early heats, of having easy wins so also trying to buy the TB for something to do
now I have too much...
bronze viper
True, I could do that to convert my ambrosia and TB into 500 darkness each
@ember bronze This is what I do now lol
daring hedge
same
wraith imp
every my run past like 3rd clear was literally golden touch and accumulating 1200 gold by temple of styx
@trim sigil
yeah...all my weapons are maxed out and i have like 60 titan blood just sitting there...but i just want 100 titan blood for no reason.
bronze viper
:3 I still haven't maxed my bounties and weapons yet
I think Shield and Spear are still not done
wraith imp
:3 I still haven't maxed my bounties and weapons yet
@bronze viper
oh? why?
daring hedge
i wish chaos fish were worth even more darkness because catching them is still kinda underwhelming in terms of how much i need for the badges
trim sigil
67 escape attempts and I'm barely half through the maxed aspect blood requirement
bronze viper
Because I got to 40 with Chaos in Blood Price in some stupid small number of attempts, decided I didn't like it and never went back lol
mossy zinc
The school in SoCal?
lol no the Street Fighter player Punk is my sensei. He earned the nickname "The Alpha" because he's dominating everybody, so he calls his community on Twitch and Discord the Alpha Academy.
wraith imp
Because I got to 40 with Chaos in Blood Price in some stupid small number of attempts, decided I didn't like it and never went back lol
@bronze viper
lol
BRUH
bronze viper
I only started spear after Tailesque taught us (taught us) how to dougie, which was very late in BLood Price.
daring hedge
lol
mossy zinc
@trim sigil you'll want 1000 Titan Blood when you get 100. Don't go there. It never ends.
daring hedge
it all started with wriste talking about lesser used aspects and digging into their untapped potential. i suggested frequent mini spins and dash spins while most people were still very "ehhh i dunno" about the prospect
and now here we are
wraith imp
@trim sigil you'll want 1000 Titan Blood when you get 100. Don't go there. It never ends.
@mossy zinc
Think you meant to tag me there.
And yeah...1,000 has crossed my mind for the briefest of moments.
trim sigil
The real goal is 69,420 titan blood
Let's face it.
wraith imp
thanks @mossy zinc
you definitely know how to make me feel star-spangled awesome...like a unique snowflake
mossy zinc
Y'all sub 50s look the same to me. I can't tell you apart. 👸🏽
bronze viper
I have literally never seen the verb "Spangle" ever except that one turn of phrase.
mossy zinc
If one of you did 50, I could tell them apart from the other one.
wraith imp
I have literally never seen the verb "Spangle" ever except that one turn of phrase.
@bronze viper
probably a purely 'Murica thing.
bronze viper
I live in Murica
trim sigil
Aw shucks, here we go again then
ember bronze
Biggest motivation to do 50 obv
wanton plover
:(
mossy zinc
Murica is not 'Muria.
wraith imp
If one of you did 50, I could tell them apart from the other one.
@mossy zinc
I think what you're telling me is you want me to beat your 52 shield run.
trim sigil
45 without AP, deal?
mossy zinc
Right? Who wouldn't want to be acknowledged by me.
wraith imp
it all started with wriste talking about lesser used aspects and digging into their untapped potential. i suggested frequent mini spins and dash spins while most people were still very "ehhh i dunno" about the prospect
@daring hedge
hmmm...do you have a spear run up on your channel currently?
I'm intrigued
daring hedge
several yes
wraith imp
good, good
mossy zinc
45 without AP, deal?
Is this #hades-low-heat-strategies?
wraith imp
will look it up
daring hedge
most recent is 1.0 50
trim sigil
Yes
daring hedge
with flaring spin and very late exploding launcher
trim sigil
Mods just changed it, look harder
ember bronze
lol no the Street Fighter player Punk is my sensei. He earned the nickname "The Alpha" because he's dominating everybody, so he calls his community on Twitch and Discord the Alpha Academy.
@mossy zinc Heh. Yeah, I'm also a greek letter because I do a lot of math at my job, and chose "Sigma" as a forum name years ago
mossy zinc
@wraith imp I'm telling you you couldn't.
wraith imp
We'll see.
I wonder if you could beat 52 heat with beowulf now that charged flight got nerfed.
/Yes, I just went there
bronze viper
For a very brief moment I considered if Hamlette was a Greek letter
lost otter
i check Resource Director price list.... i wana kill him
mossy zinc
At the moment, I don't think so because I lack the practice in boss fights.
ember bronze
my Discord username was "Sigma" until just a few days ago since I made it for a work thing first when Discord was first created
wraith imp
At the moment, I don't think so because I lack the practice in boss fights.
@mossy zinc
So we both have goals.
mossy zinc
My goals don't include 52 Beowulf at the moment lol.
random bough
Isn't charged flight Beowulf just worse Hestia now
bronze viper
Beowulf is still a shield
mossy zinc
But Hestia doesn't have Dragon Rush or block, anyway.
bronze viper
That counts for something
random bough
hestia has better range ig
mossy zinc
I'm not so sure about that. I think the range is pretty similar.
random bough
id never have the instinct to block while using charged flight
mossy zinc
Well, you could never Charged Flight through DC2, anyway.
ember bronze
What does Beowulf + Curse of Drowning do?
random bough
you load and dragon rush, and the pulses start at the end of that
pulses still originate from you
basically it's bad
or rather not what you'd want on Beowulf
lost otter
CD work on beo?
rocky mauve
Don't quote me on that but I think CoD and basically most cast duos are for shots and not flares
ember bronze
CoD just dropped for me
surreal geode
If you think I got time to play this game think again lol
Maybe when things die a little, I'm too busy putting my stuff back on track after I got hijacked
ripe crane
The classic high heat strat of getting your mess of a life in order. A strat I am too lazy for.
bronze viper
Too hot for me.
ember bronze
1 Heat: Health Codes. No objects on the floor of your house during the run
mossy zinc
@surreal geode sorry to hear that. I hope you'll get things back in order soon. 1.0 is quite fun to play. 
surreal geode
I already played 1.0 and got some nice content out of it. I just don't have the time to grind runs 🙂
One day I'll be back for sure
ripe crane
1 Heat: Health Codes. No objects on the floor of your house during the run
@ember bronze tfw you can't even beat irl at 1 heat 😢
ember bronze
+2 Heat: Health Codes 2. You had breakfast today
ripe crane
I can barely do the "get out of bed" modifier
ember bronze
1 Heat: Professional Decorum. You have pants or a skirt on while playing
ripe crane
That's the heightened security of irl runs
sly remnant
who wears pants during covid
bronze viper
Laziness. So much to unlock again
ember bronze
I think you have to be playing at such high heat that you always use JS and CP
bronze viper
Working slowly towards it on the switch
ember bronze
that's not true at 32 or even 40
So like, the only purpose of that file has to be super high heat runs, which not a lot of people probably feel like unlocking for
You can't use the file for speed, for trying other challenges, etc.
bronze viper
I can't remember the pact layout but I remember recently thinking that I'm pretty sure I can hit 50 on Chiron pretty straightforward if I had Hell Mode but it was iffy without PL. I didn't continue the project regardless so I have no idea if that was accurate
ember bronze
Also TBH most people haven't played with Personal Liability, and don't have a good sense of whether you want to spend 1 Heat on it
mossy zinc
I have Beowulf and Rib and a couple maxed keepsakes in Hell mode for when I was working on 56.
slow jetty
so hell mode is pointless?
bronze viper
Pretty much lol
It matters a lot at low heat, don't get me wrong
Which is their target demographic
CP1 JS1 is no joke, especially if you can't turn it off
mossy zinc
CP1 JS1 alone already make things difficult for e.g. Hestia at high heats.
Perhaps not as much anymore with the TD change.
ember bronze
I still wouldn't use them until basically forced to
taking longer to kill everything multiplies all of your other problems
bronze viper
I guess count your blessing and be glad it doesn't mean JS4, CP3, and HL6 exist, because then you'd almost feel obligated to grind the game twice.
ember bronze
All in all Hell Mode doesn't seem that interesting
esp. now that there are these long-tail cosmetic unlocks in the game, it's hard to want to split between files
bronze viper
Like that Fated Authority cosmetic you could unlock in your mirror pre 1.0
ember bronze
I remember (in the occasional times I stopped in here) being like "I use Fated Persuasion" and everyone thought I was weird
bronze viper
I wasn't even referring as much to its viability as its cost. Even if you loved it and it was the best, 99.9% of players would never max it out.
ember bronze
Yeah, I did all of my learning and heat grinding with 3 FP rolls, since the 4th cost 25k
bronze viper
Lol, it took exactly one time of me needing 2 FP rerolls to get the boon I wanted to start with in room 1 of Tartarus before I was sold
bronze viper
Are you comfortable with LC4?
bronze viper
sec, i'll make a screenshot
I'd start Arrowhead and aim to pick either Deadly Strike or Hunter Dash (much prefer the former)
ripe crane
I am too dumb to avoid traps, gonna turn on hard labor but otherwise that looks doable
bronze viper
And take some status of some kind on your special. Dio, Aphro, Zeus are ideal, Ares, Demeter are fine.
daring hedge
you could trade those CF for two in HL
it's not gonna make anything chunk you ridiculously
bronze viper
I recommended HL0 because they're new to LC4.
ripe crane
Seems like priv position will not be active most of the time, do I want FF?
bronze viper
Yep
daring hedge
careful, you'll summon the PS stans
bronze viper
You're most likely taking Athena in Asphodel, unless you already got her in Tartarus and you want a good shot at a duo
ember bronze
JS over TD?
Not gaining any heat, just making yourself deal with more and take longer
ripe crane
I'm not fast enough for 5:00 TD
bronze viper
TD3 is pretty hard even with JS0 CP0 if you're not used to it. You still have to sac rooms
Skip trials etc.
And trials are dope, but take SO LONG in their current state
ember bronze
yeah
ripe crane
Started with hammer, there's twin shot, triple shot, and explosive shot
ember bronze
it's true, I often eat the pain of TD and do everything to avoid heats that make combat harder
since I'm not great at it
bronze viper
Twin Shot
daring hedge
trials aren't that bad in not-tartarus actually
it's the tartarus trials that are problematic right now
bronze viper
My evaluation of hammers keeps changing, but right now it's vaguely:
Twin > Perfect > Triple > Chain (if JS3) > Point Blank >= Explosive (if Deadly Strike) >= Relentless Volley (if Drunken Flourish early, this goes up dramatically)
ember bronze
yeah, and you really want early trials with UC
bronze viper
Lol, basically all the attack hammers that aren't Repulse or Sniper or Explosive have arguments for 2nd place behind Twin, so it's more of a game feel preference.
daring hedge
pretty much
daring hedge
triple has potential to be basically on par with twin with consistent spacing for dash-strikes
which is obviously easier said than done
bronze viper
Perfect lets you play from coward range though, which is excellent
daring hedge
but you can have triple and perfect though
bronze viper
You have to play in attack mode with Triple lol
bronze viper
There are not, no
daring hedge
it kind of needs them considering how different the attack is
bronze viper
That's like saying I need all these stones because I have 2 kidneys
daring hedge
my point is that delta chamber or flurry fire wouldn't work.
true fable
yeah i guess theres that one thats basically delta chamber but worse on luci
bronze viper
What a world we live in where the phrase "Delta Chamber but worse" can exist
true fable
i guess delta chambers not that good but i like it for speed haha
bronze viper
Doesn't fix the problem of the eon it takes Zag to pick up and put down the stupid gun, which you have to do all the time because it doesn't kill projectiles lol
I like Flash Fire though. Makes it feel mostly like a real aspect
daring hedge
i mean, nobody is saying all the luci exclusive hammers are necessarily amazing. it's just that if it didn't have extra exclusives, its hammer pool would be bizarrely small
pretty sure they tried to avoid that with what we have now
ripe crane
Not sure this is going correctly. I have divine dash, ares special, and support fire at the end of Tartarus. Replaced hunter dash with divine in the last tartarus room. Might try to snag aphro attack?
daring hedge
aphro or artemis would work, yeah
ripe crane
Well I picked Artemis first and didn't get the attack 😛
hollow lynx
poseidon attack for some extra flavor
daring hedge
no
hollow lynx
if repulse shot is the poor man's divine strike, tempest strike is the poor man's repulse shot
hollow lynx
daring hedge
well maybe not for actually pushing away, but for the only important reason
superdad spear
rocky lark
Does swift strike increase the bow's charge speed on attacks?
ember bronze
(I know I ask this kind of question a lot, I just did most of my Hades learning on my own)
What exactly does Swift Strike/Flourish do anyway?
Shorten all the relevant anims of your attack/special?
rocky lark
Tbh I don't even know exactly
And idk weather to pick swift strike or hyper sprint on Rama haha so I'm just sitting here
grizzled pollen
So how do people feel about LC4 cursed slash runs? I mean I know getting cursed slash is pretty inconsistent but it almost turns LC4 into a regular run again
true fable
turns it into a regular run with cursed slash
grizzled pollen
Tbf I miss cursed slash when it first came out and it essentially made you invincible like way back when the early access first came out
It was one of the first things they straight up patched out of the game lmao
rocky lark
I think my first win ever was flurry slash + cursed slash haha
grizzled pollen
My first ever hydra kill was with cursed slash flurry slash just swarmed by skeletons and whacking so much I could never die
rocky lark
was also the first time I actually got to styx
true fable
i just dont like the -60% lol
and i feel like youre fighting a losing battle with HL on
but im also not a giga gamer so
grizzled pollen
I don't mind it too much. I usually prioritize aphro and dyo when I have guan yu or cursed and then just grab every darkness, centaur heart/soul, and nectar I see
I think I actually had over 200 health on a cursed slash run once
Personally I keep HL off, I'm only going for 32 heat rn so I can avoid it
HL and LC at the same time is like 'oh I see I make no mistakes ever'
Can you still do that thing with stubborn defiance where you can lose it, then get a +1 from ath or a well and wind up with two lives?
true fable
yes
well
yes with athena
the well item just gives you extra health
i believe
on stubborn usage
idle sonnet
Are there any tips for 32 heat ?
rocky lark
The SD version of kiss of styx (touch of styx?) is really good yeah
idle sonnet
I was trying with twin fists and the health regen impact is such a huge handicap
rocky lark
I always buy it whenever it's there and the patty one is super op too
true fable
@idle sonnet from what ive seen its figure out which pop aspects hurt you the most
and then dont pickem
idle sonnet
What would you recommend ? I think the one that's the most annoying is the one that limits your regen
true fable
well im still trying and failing so i might not be the best person to ask
i also hate LC
idle sonnet
i'll try to find other heat pacts that fits more
grizzled pollen
I'm pretty fast so I can get away with 7 minute deadline usually
I'd recommend that one if you're fast
rocky lark
If you run LC4 you pretty much have to run Stubborn Defiance
grizzled pollen
Since it doesn't actually harm you at all
rocky lark
Yeah TD2 is free heat
true fable
td2 is free heat until bp2/cp/dc
i find myself running into a brick wall in tartarus at that point
grizzled pollen
Wouldn't try 5 minute at high heat tho
rocky lark
I find that just BP2 and DC2 tend to be okay on TD2 (assuming you have an aspect that can deal with the DC2 reasonably well)
I never run CP though
Sometimes take some JS but again if you have good aoe it's not too bad
rocky lark
Lol
true fable
LC4 is the no health regen
rocky lark
Look at the pins
true fable
TD2 is tight deadline its the one that adds a timer
rocky lark
In this channel
idle sonnet
RI is the one which throws out some mirror power ups right ?
rocky lark
idle sonnet
why is it rough
rocky lark
What are ya running atm?
rocky lark
Well RI1 is okayish, you won't have rerolls and boon rarity
I think after that it's v hard
true fable
RI suckkkkkks but i feel like i have to take RI1 on 32 heat
RI2 is not on my radar rn
idle sonnet
i'll try RI next
true fable
cuz i feel like with RI2 you need stubborn defiacne
idle sonnet
i think
rocky lark
RI2, 3 and 4 are ooooof
Since you lose thick skin at ri2, lose the dash at ri3 and lose your death defy at ri4
true fable
oof
idle sonnet
i personally use the dash that gives you more dodge chance and etc
so i wouldn't feel the impact that much
twilit orbit
taking the first level of routine inspection is fine
since the last three talents on the mirror aren't really that important to general gameplay, they're just nice to have because they make stuff better
ripe crane
That's like the worst level of RI. If I take 1 RI, I take 2
twilit orbit
but any levels past that you start eating into stuff that you really, really want to have
daring hedge
while RI1 by itself isn't too brutal, it's usually not worth taking unless you need the extra heat just because of how good dark foresight is now
true fable
the worst part about RI1 is that it isnt immediately felt
you feel it walking out of styx with like 6 common boons and no synergy LMAO
cerulean frigate
now that i actually get how parting shot works i can say that wow it is so busted
twilit orbit
if it take extra levels of RI then I dont even get to styx though
daring hedge
with applying your backstab damage directly to your casts at all times?
ripe crane
Y'all take dark foresight over extra change for rares+?
cerulean frigate
i shot hades with a fully loaded hera bow on 5 cast stones and it instantly triggered the shield
true fable
that reminds me i actually need to test that
daring hedge
@ripe crane yes
true fable
dark foresight is nuts
ripe crane
chance*
hollow lynx
i really need to actually use parting shot sometime lol
daring hedge
same
twilit orbit
doesnt parting shot buff all backstab damage?
hollow lynx
i know very little about it for being a cast builder
twilit orbit
or was I misled?
ripe crane
oop. Looks like my mirror's messed up then
cerulean frigate
yeah
it buffs all backstab damage and adds your backstab damage modifier to your cast
i went all in with black shawl, nemesis crest/braid of atlas, chaos boons for backstab damage
on crush shot
had exposed from athena
cerulean frigate
a super specific niche use but yeah
true fable
did you get to test back/front damage to confirm that you dont need to backstab with the cast?
dry flame
u can't backstab with cast
cerulean frigate
i shot hades from the front and like i said, instantly part 2 of phase 1
dry flame
not until u get the boon anyway
true fable
yeah but did you compare it to damage from the back?
bright raptor
Were you using Athena cast
true fable
does athena cast auto backstab
rocky lark
athena cast backstabs from the front
(with hera at least, Idk if it does by just casting with parting shot too)
bright raptor
I think it's due to how athena cast spawns from the arrow with hera bow
at least from what I've heard
true fable
ok i will do one parting shot run with athena and one parting shot run with another
should be fun
ripe crane
tfw you end your run by not dying in the room prior to the boss
true fable
stubborn defiance?
grizzled pollen
What's like, the easiest weapon to 32 heat with I want that goddamn statue
ripe crane
Yup. Had 15 HP in the room prior to Theseus/Asterius. Forgot that the spear traps turn off after all the mobs are dead.
lost otter
What's like, the easiest weapon to 32 heat with I want that goddamn statue
@grizzled pollen weapon what you can handle.
grizzled pollen
Normally I use stygius like all the time but seems like it's kind of ass on high heat
No defense and doesn't have the damage output of like, zeus exagryph
twilit orbit
yeah I think you should go with something you're best with
if you're doing bows then chiron is very good
brisk shard
arthur poseidon/zeus is good on high heart
twilit orbit
eris rail is very good if you're comfortable with gun
grizzled pollen
I think I have too much speedrun brain though I've been tryna do poseidon aspect speedrun strats and getting smashed
twilit orbit
shield you can do like, chaos or something
true fable
@brisk shard what do you mean by arthur poseidon/zeus
like poseidon attack zeus special? i thought poseidon attack was memes
true fable
ah ok
brisk shard
poseidon attack is meme withiout zeus duo
edgy arrow
i honestly still think the easiest weapon for 32 is chaos shield
just don’t take TD and you’re fine lol
true fable
yeah im still using chaos shield
brisk shard
aquiles spear is very good with any cast build too
grizzled pollen
Yeah I've been slamming my head into it tryna use zag aspect or poseidon aspect with poseidon cast like I normally do and it is just nooooot working
true fable
help
edgy arrow
i got my pos aspect 32 with arty cast
true fable
do i take huge catch or sunken treasure 🙂
twilit orbit
for a farming run?
true fable
i honestly cant believe my rolls lmao
twilit orbit
huge catch is real good for farming imo because fish are so valuable
true fable
if it wasnt a farming run before it is now
twilit orbit
assuming you can actually catch them
true fable
im in elysium rn tho
edgy arrow
take huge catch, try and sell it
edgy arrow
i haven’t seen a greece fish in so long lol
twilit orbit
also if you can get a fish in a chaos gate that's helpful too
since those are unnaturally hard to find and you need them to fill out the codex lol
edgy arrow
i got 2 chaos legendary fish yesterday, after not seeing one in 300 hours
true fable
yeah i luckily got those already
edgy arrow
it was the craziest thing that’s ever happened to me
twilit orbit
i still need a few more chaos fish to fully flesh out their codex entries
I think i've only ever found 4 chaos fish in 100 runs
edgy arrow
sounds about right, yeah
dry flame
maybe it's time to do some runs with the Poseidon legendary LOL
true fable
anyone find it kind of inconsistent that holy ground doesnt cancel out poison
not that its a huge issue
edgy arrow
that’d be crazy if it did tho
true fable
just like kind of strange
edgy arrow
like, it would just cancel out half of styx
brisk shard
hades call cancel poison
twilit orbit
the other invunerability calls pause poison damage as well
brisk shard
hades call straight up heal the poison
edgy arrow
huh, kinda neat i guess
edgy arrow
honestly i never really got into hades call
ember bronze
I read--somewhere (here or speedrun discord), Hades non-full call is 100% damage for 2sec even if you break the stealth?
rocky lark
Yeah it is
brisk shard
yep
rocky lark
I'm done all the codex entries except two more common Greece fish and two more common chaos fish
ember bronze
so that makes Hades quite good on builds that build call fast
twilit orbit
im still missing chaos fish, anvil, loyalty card, and onion
ember bronze
and builds that want global damage mult (cast, seastorm, etc.)
rocky lark
Been doing non perfect catches on purpose haha
twilit orbit
only the chaos fish are hard though
brisk shard
im think hades call is the strongest call in the game
twilit orbit
but hades call is a big opportunity cost
because it means you cant take acorn
or some other keepsake
ember bronze
not sure--it's pretty great to get a high-value call without taking a boon drop, and blocking call boons for better efficiency at the same time
brisk shard
the invi makes you invunerable and the dmg boost is top notch
twilit orbit
but acorn is the best keepsake in the game
rocky lark
Hmm I got 1 more anvil yolo to go, a couple cards and like 7 onions
It's kinda nice that onion is in codex so you don't feel like you compleeeetey failed when you get hit haha
ember bronze
indeed, Acorn is huge
twilit orbit
hades keepsake gives you a good boon but i dont know if the difference in power level between hades call and like, athena call or something makes up for the difference in power level between acorn and no keepsake in the final battle
rocky lark
If we're talking speedruns I'd probably still run acorn on say Achilles since I tend to have lost some DDs pre dad on that one
brisk shard
acorn is the persephone one ?
rocky lark
But with eris or dem fists, dad keepsake is really good
twilit orbit
because hades call is tied to a keepsake the real comparison is something like:
Hades Call
1 Free Boon
No Keepsake
vs
Another Call
1 Less Boon
Acorn Keepsake
rocky lark
Especially if you're not running high confidence but even if you are it's probably worth
twilit orbit
acorn is the one that blocks 5 hits versus bosses
on high heat bosses are scary so acorn blocks a loooot of damage
true fable
i feel like you can go acornless with achilles
for speed
but this is the high heat channel 🙂
rocky lark
I'm probably just bad at it haha
true fable
so i praise the acorn
brisk shard
man with zeus boost for call chager you can dodge much more with hades keepsake
twilit orbit
the acorn is for when you mess up
brisk shard
true
twilit orbit
because even the top runners get hit sometimes
rocky lark
Also would you guys rather purge common +10% special speed or epic urge to kill (+20%) on Rama?
twilit orbit
if you have ranks in hard labor hades is going to be hitting you for like 40 damage on most of his attacks
bronze viper
Special Speed
twilit orbit
special speed
rocky lark
bronze viper
At least Urge to Kill pretends to be do something
I'm not sure what Swift Flourish is claiming
twilit orbit
iirc its good on chiron specifically since it lets you get in an extra special before your mark expires
bronze viper
Lol, sure, the Special based build
twilit orbit
but usually I find 10% special speed to be kind of underwhelming
its just a small number and you dont usually use special that much
rocky lark
ledgerdamayn, what Hermes boons do you guys even go for on Rama?
bronze viper
Dashes, Hyper Sprint (is very good for safeguarding dash sstrikes), Rare+ Swift Strike
I'm not sure if I'm placeboing Swift Strike but it least feels faster
bronze viper
Is that is true, then for sure
I'm still not certain though lol, it's been a long time since I've been offered Swift Strike on Rama
ripe crane
I remembered to kill myself after Lernie with Stubborn Defiance 😄
I forgot that I already died during the fight 😦
bronze viper
Oh, duh Evasion obv great
Any rarity
And Second Wind with most calls
But that's like... every build.
I forgot that I already died during the fight 😦
@ripe crane This is something you only have to do once. I felt like such an idiot the first time I did this on a good run that I pretty much always triple check now lol
twilit orbit
i had a run once where I did a treasure trove and then just left without picking up the reward
that definitely made me feel like a dummy, and now I always double check that lol
bronze viper
@daring hedge I found the "dream" EM4 temp save to practice on lol. Sneaks and Soul Catchers, les'goooo. I am SO BAD at this fight on Rama.
(I died swiftly and with very little hesitation on the actual attempt)
daring hedge
oh man rama's two favorite summons
bronze viper
Why do the butterflies stun. It's so rude
Also am I imagining it, or do Rama's attacks not always kill the butterflies
daring hedge
"you know those dash-strike power shots you want to do so much? would be cool if i just made it twice as hard to find a good time to do it"
thanks soul catcher
i have no clue because i don't usually bother trying to clear them with anything but divine dash
true fable
does anyone know if the probability pool for legendaries and duos is the same or if they are rolled for separately
ripe crane
Isn't Athena supposed to give you an extra DD if you're using stubborn defiance?
rocky lark
I think if you currently have no DD she can give you one and then the SD can refill
Epic Hunter Dash vs Splitting Headache on Rama?
ripe crane
Ah, I bought her thing at Charon so that didn't happen
rocky lark
Probably SH right
Hmm 7.5% global crit when it's stacked vs 70% dash strike dmg with twin and point blank shot
SH is more fun so I'm gonna do that and maybe find arty dash later
And if I'm scared I can hide from dad and let him die to critical alcohol poisoning
wraith imp
Hi all.
Is there some way to turn off cloud saves? Game isn't letting me permanently delete 2nd, 3rd, and 4th save files.
Every time I delete a save, it returns. I want replace the returning save file with a more current save file of a build I have to practice.
Edit: Hmmm...I think I found it. There's an option in setting to turn off "Epic Services."
ripe crane
36 done. Honestly it's almost comical how easy this game is. lmk when I can get triple-digit heat.
daring hedge
exactly, the only reason i haven't done 63 is because i'm waiting for at least 100 smh
static plover
We just need to be able to hurt ourselves have fun with +100% FO again
true fable
anyone know if you can get the same boon again if you have to sell it bc of UC
lost otter
can
true fable
ok i tested parting shot on a number of enemies
damage was higher while "backstabbing" but not by +35%
i think it's +35% base cast damage AND your cast gains backstab abilities
its pretty good for the +35% alone
the backstabs a nice bonus
ripe crane
Just out DPS him, ez
lost otter
too strong and critical cast build turned out today. When I run a flower random.
its fun. but too strong.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/2nya2kc8wksfhe2/Ahill Ath Art Zeus.mp4?dl=0
3k from cast....totaly not fair
hidden torrent
What was the build?
naive zinc
Hi everyone sorry if this has probably been asked to death but what's the best pact of punishment for 32 heat?
Like easiest?
edgy arrow
What was the build?
@hidden torrent looks like athena cast with lightning phalanx and a source of crit (deadly reversal, maybe?)
suspect there’s also +% cast damage from chaos as well
and stygian soul with fully loaded ofc
static plover
The pacts you're most comfortable playing with most realistically, also there is no real 'easy' 32 heat as it depends on playstyle, weapon and aspect
edgy arrow
^
static plover
For example taking DC2 on arthur is asking for trouble but DC2 on something like Chiron is more managable
edgy arrow
and taking DC2 on lightning eris is literally free heat
lost otter
@hidden torrent looks like athena cast with lightning phalanx and a source of crit (deadly reversal, maybe?)
@edgy arrow yup. + mark. cast hit first target. create a mark on near foe and bounce to him,crit again=>create mark on near foe=>bounce to him.
hidden torrent
I see, nice.
lost otter
becaus hades have skulls and summons =>dead comes fast
hollow lynx
someone remind me to switch to persuasion cause i keep forgetting
i just keep running past the mirror cause i want to do another run lol
naive zinc
I'm kinda scared of that chariot, only beat it once
what would you take out for ap1 or uc?
hollow lynx
focus down asterius and learn his patterns, theseus's only job is to be slightly annoying while he's chariot riding
definitely RI first
using dark foresight would take any of the pain out of UC
lost otter
if you play artur. better add more enemy then damage. becaus 2 and 3 swings dothent matter how much enemy . its HEAVY AOE cleave. you kill them all.
and +1 AP not huge deal. you still can do your build.
naive zinc
thanks!
lost otter
@naive zinc i think its be one of the easy one 32 for artur
You can use money. less enemy. they not hurt you much. you easy can be in time limit. Only one problem its handle bosses. but its artur baby. 40% damage reduction. hard swings.and take Abyssal Blood in mirror for bosses and elite enemy. its give slow and decrease damage huge.
true fable
how do you post images? Im curious about feedback for what im currently using on chaos
hollow lynx
upload elsewhere and paste the link here
steam, imgur, and another discord server works
true fable
true fable
fosh
gonna try both of those
good tips
i dont have to touch any of CF, LC, or HL
feels doable
to think i had HL3 at one point for 32 heat 🤣
hollow lynx
really i was thinking RI, because without dark foresight uc is gonna be painful
lost otter
damn you play in shield. You have 100% damage reduction on front. and its chaos shield. room cleaning weapon
daring hedge
there was some confusion earlier about swift strike on rama, and i can now confirm that it's not worth it. does not affect dash-strikes; only normal attacks
true fable
mm i didnt even think about that and just sent it
lost otter
dont take DC. take more JR. becaus if you go doom special. do not matter how many enemy. ONE special used clean room.
true fable
we'll see if this works
twilit orbit
@daring hedge so it affects charge speed on regular attack but the charge speed on dash attack is fixed even if you pick up the boon?
daring hedge
yeah, unfortunately
twilit orbit
huh
daring hedge
another case of the game meaning attack in a very specific sense
twilit orbit
I feel like getting the consistency cleared up around dash attack vs regular attack would be helpful
I feel like some things that boost attack also boost dash attack and then some things randomly dont
wraith imp
there was some confusion earlier about swift strike on rama, and i can now confirm that it's not worth it. does not affect dash-strikes; only normal attacks
@daring hedge
that's very disappointing. but good to know.
Btw, is it just me or does dash-attack on rama feel slower with twin shot hammer?
wanton plover
sort of since range is smaller so ofc range increases slower with charge time
but the time it takes to get power shot is same
wraith imp
sort of since range is smaller so ofc range increases slower with charge time
@wanton plover
i did not understand this statement
wanton plover
dash attack is not slower on twin shot
daring hedge
the charge rate is exactly the same, but it needs to happen over a shorter distance
so it can give the feeling of charging slower
wraith imp
ok, yeah...that's what i was thinking.
true fable
woo
finally cleared 32 thanks everyone for suggestions
damage is more important than duos i have learned my lesson
why am i not surprised that the prize was underwhelming
wanton plover
wow :(
hollow lynx
the prize is being good at the game and feeling good about being good at the game
bragging rights are always nice rewards
true fable
fair fair
ive done about everything i initially wanted to in this game so ima hop to transistor for a bit
and then i'll probably give 32+ a shot
ripe crane
At what point does EM4 become the next step to higher heat? Kind of not looking forward to that
But also I kind of feel like it will be easier than FO2
daring hedge
you can avoid superdad all the way up to 50 or so, really
random bough
Around 45 I'd say
daring hedge
several of my 50 runs were without EM4, and it lightens the load significantly
random bough
I mean if you prefer taking EM4 over AP or RI
Then 45
Ish
I'd rather take EM4 than AP, AP makes the game unnecessarily frustrating
ripe crane
That is farther away that I expected
I don't know if I'll ever even get close to 50, but I think I would turn on EM before AP, maybe even before RI
I might change my tune when it actually comes time to decide
daring hedge
RI2 really isn't so bad
the main hurdle is getting two extra hearts to make up for thick skin
random bough
you lose health, dark foresight and persuasion
ripe crane
Yeah if I am doing RI then I will absolutely do RI2 and not just RI1. I prioritize hearts probably too heavily now. Love being beefy.
daring hedge
you still have persuasion, just not the initial rolls
random bough
coupled with AP it's pretty bad but ig without it, it's manageable
I mean you could manage it by playing a lot
ripe crane
And you don't have foresight, so you will constantly get keys for rerolls. It all balances it out. Basically free heat at that point
sand valve
i finally beat EM4!
sand valve
this is a tough heat 10 strat tho
random bough
unseen ones is the reason I take EM4
sand valve
its great thankfully i had enough life to hear the music
with that being said EM4 is a rough 10 heat
anyone got an idea for an easy 10?
hollow lynx
if you’re living long enough to hear the whole music, td has already timed you out
ripe crane
9:00 td is probably fine
Did you find EM3 too hard? If you're okay with that you can turn on a level of benefits package, TD1, and maybe a level in like... convenience fee or lasting consequences
tidal flame
erm I would do EM2 TD2 UC BP1
alternatively
if you can handle FO2, you have a lot more options
daring hedge
i might take out UC and replace it with something more straightforward but that's a good start
FO is worth getting used to as soon as you're comfortable
sand valve
checking those out now thx
tidal flame
you can do the speedrun strats, not the easiest but it's fun gong fast. TD3 FO2 EM2
bronze viper
there was some confusion earlier about swift strike on rama, and i can now confirm that it's not worth it. does not affect dash-strikes; only normal attacks
@daring hedge Lol, my placebo senses were tingling.
mossy zinc
Urgh, RI3 Guan Yu difficulty is fine, but losing the second dash hurts my DPS so much. This is 8 minutes slower than without RI. I guess maybe a minute of that goes to EM3, but that's still 7 minutes slower.
@daring hedge how did you confirm that it doesn't affect Dash-Strikes?
daring hedge
hermes speed boosts have a visual effect associated with them when the attack or special goes off. with bows, it's easy to test attack versus dash-strike because the hermes visual goes off on every single attack, and does not for any dash-strikes
also got an epic and the difference was notable
on dash-strikes, the difference felt was definitely nothing
mossy zinc
I never noticed an effect lol.
mossy zinc
But does it make the regular attack fast enough to be good?
daring hedge
i personally don't think so. charging from prone is still weird even when it's faster and easier to use
a lot of rama involves attacking immediately after an enemy's opening. this would basically force you to slow down and not use a dash-strike
ember bronze
Self-explanatory: https://twitter.com/HamletEJ/status/1318432814572789761
mossy zinc
Carried by Repulse Shot, I see.
ember bronze
You know, I saw your comments on it before
mossy zinc
Congrats.
Hmm. DPS should be better with Charged Skewer since that's mostly unaffected by RI3, but that's not really a reliable strategy. I guess RI3 Guan Yu high heat is out of the question unless you like to flip coins.
static plover
Congrats 
ember bronze
Thanks though, this 32 came way more easily than most for me, I feel like I just barely started learning it
(Repulse was against Relentless Volley in act1. In hindsight, Relentess would have been great since I got Unhealthy Fixation on my special)
mossy zinc
Maybe I should do a 32 with Rama and see what all the fuss is about. I've only played the aspect once, I think, since day 1 Blood Price beta when it was still a LMG.
ember bronze
Same, that's the only time I played it, heh
it was so slow
but now it's just a bow where the ordinary attack is a cannon
and does cleave damage
mossy zinc
I wouldn't say slow. That thing fired 10 rounds a second.
@daring hedge Arrowhead is the way to go, right?
urban grail
I don't play early access so I have no idea
daring hedge
yeah, either arrowhead for deadly strike or owl pendant for divine dash, then you can easily do the other for asphodel
rama doesn't particularly need an attack boon in tartarus
urban grail
In 1.0 it's 1 shot every 10 seconds
ember bronze
I opened Hunter Dash in that run, was fine
mossy zinc
Do I take Hunter Dash or reroll for Attack?
daring hedge
i think actually at 32 hunter dash would be fine
mossy zinc
Reroll, I guess. Common Deadly Strike, let's go.
daring hedge
i'm just in the 50+ mindset where divine feels almost mandatory, but hunter is good too
ember bronze
I sold it for UC, but it was fine to have in act 1
got divine later
and Deadly Strike later
What special do you like? I got Aphro but never got Heart Rend
random bough
I took overflowing cup for tartarus and got an epic hangover, got relentless volley and that carried me through 40
can't you take cup in tartarus and arrowhead in asphodel?
mossy zinc
+89% Special damage from Master Chaos any good?
I guess I only care for Attack and Dash-Strike damage.
daring hedge
@ember bronze dio, ares, and zeus are the ones i like because i never really focus on the special too much; mostly just for applying shared suffering and getting rid of DC hearts, sometimes applying debuffs like numbing sensation or jolted
chaos special damage is pretty terrible on rama, generally speaking
random bough
With relentless volley I think special hangover is worth upgrading
mossy zinc
Oh, I guess I can just take the -4 HP every Attack for +73% backstab since I have SD again lol.
ember bronze
Yeah. I stumbled into Unhealth Fixation on mine which wound up being great
but Ares sounds great
mossy zinc
I'm running High Confidence, too, so this is fine.
daring hedge
heartbreak flourish is still good though, yeah. you enable heart rend while running deadly strike and the weak is nice anyway
mossy zinc
Fountain and Sisyphus. I'm gonna carry this curse into the Furies, aren't I. 👀
ember bronze
Ok, how do you do Sneak with this
cerulean frigate
sneak is such a miserable enemy to fight with higher heat
ember bronze
I feel like I can never get the hang of that fight
mossy zinc
So Asterius still spins around you forever if you use Hades's call.
daring hedge
@mossy zinc oh yeah i saw achilles/pat miss for the first time today lol, they stabbed white lernie while he was head slamming and currently airborne
mossy zinc
The only title that matters. 💗 https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725021639506526249/768008730616659988/Hades_1035.png?width=834&height=469
+116% Dash-Strike damage is nice.
true fable
incredible
mossy zinc
Aw.
ember bronze
I'm not very good at FO2 hades
mossy zinc
You can do it! 
ember bronze
yeah, I think I like Rama a lot actually
mossy zinc
No need for FO2 until 40+, really.
ember bronze
It really makes the game harder
But if I want to do the LC/SD setup, I need to get better at the game anyway
mossy zinc
FO0 RI0 AP0–1 should be default until 40+ imo, unless you want things to be difficult.
mossy zinc
So did I.
true fable
can you really afford all that unless you do LC4 SD
flat bear
I run FO1/2 pretty much every single run regardless of heat so I've gotten used to it
ember bronze
I think I can handle FO1
but yeah, I should hold off on 2, and get better at FL
HL*
mossy zinc
The game is just way easier at FO0 regardless.
ember bronze
and yeah, AP is probably hurting my efficiency more than I think
I was doing FO1-2 on the logic of--learning to handle it, getting used to it
But, HL/LC and FO0 might make me focus more on fundamental mechanics
actually learn to avoid everything
mossy zinc
I do think FO2 is good for practice. But it's also just way harder.
I'd even say the difference increases the better you get at FO2 because eventually you can just easily no-hit most chambers at FO0.
ember bronze
FO0 LC4
...Far and away the easiest 32 I've done
Ended Hades with 2 lives (Athena + SD) and 3 Acorn charges
mossy zinc
Yup, that's what I'm saying.
ember bronze
What do you usually add for 40?
mossy zinc
I wouldn't say there's a "usual" 40 for me.
obtuse saffron
Damn solid run.
ember bronze
Now I'm honestly considering adding like JS and RI and stuff before going back to FO
true fable
curious, why abyssal blood over boiling blood
ember bronze
In hindsight, should probably have used Boiling for Rama, and FO0 where the game is easier
but Abyssal is more normal for me
It's an always effective multiplicative surivability benefit
Boiling is an additive increase to attack and special that is often a pretty poor real damage increase
The slow and DR on the target is always valuable on any dangerous target, like bosses
static plover
I really should give abyssal blood another shot. Last I tried it was 50% and didn't work at all 
ember bronze
But that said--Rama is so multiplicative off of base attack damage, that putting Boiling into things is probably good
and FO0 means I'm much less concerned about keeping safe
Honestly I barely ever cast in this run, so it didn't matter much
true fable
those are really good points tbh
might start running it
my brain always just go cast damage do more damage
didnt stop to think about what id actually want vs bosses
trim sigil
I have been following the idea of "the less time enemies are alive the less harm they can do to you"
wanton plover
ok ares
wanton plover
because youre smart
ember bronze
but for Boiling vs. Abyssal, there's just such an imbalance of efficiency
(again, except in certain builds)
trim sigil
I'm not entirely smart because hell mode and it forces JS1 CP1
And well, TD does in fact make the choice of Boiling Blood almost dominant
Unless we consider scenarios where slower enemy allows for more openings and hence damage done
ember bronze
I lose to dying more than I lose to TD
trim sigil
Probably because with TD you have to commit to a specific mindset which will leave you as much free time as possible
So most of the time it won't be TD itself that kills, but the risks taken due to it
wanton plover
crab are you gonna make hades videos
trim sigil
Yes, although currently not sure what exactly to show
wanton plover
widepeepohappy
mossy zinc
My high heat tier list. https://imgur.com/a/NhL6KvZ
trim sigil
B is for Bouldy
Everyone else is in C
mossy zinc
random bough
Interesting place for zag shield
ripe crane
Chaos shield is butt, change my mind
trim sigil
nEmEsis is indeed an interesting take
mossy zinc
Zag shield is in "I have no idea, but it's a shield" tier.
random bough
Does it buff bull rush base dmg
trim sigil
It doesn't
random bough
Either way it's mediocre and only pulverizing blow can change that ig
trim sigil
Granted, bull rush isn't main source of dmg anyway
wanton plover
shield dash attack is slippery
mossy zinc
Nemesis has one hammer that does anything, and that one relies on Dash-Strikes. RI3 kills it.
wanton plover
like you slide slightly afterwards like its soapy
random bough
RI3 is 50+
mossy zinc
Yes.
random bough
If the tier list is based on 50+ Rama and Eris S tier and everything else F
mossy zinc
No lol.
random bough
Well ig tailesque did hades
Has anyone actually done 50 with lucifer
Should be near impossible
mossy zinc
I don't think 50 is impossible with any aspect lol.
trim sigil
50 was done with Rama, Eris, Demeter, Hades
early access had Chaos and Beo in addition
maiden geode
oof a scathing review for chiron bow
trim sigil
Lucy is probably the furthest of rail aspects from 50 heh
mossy zinc
I've tried 56 with Lucifer in Blood Price, and it was garbage.
random bough
Someone did 50 Demeter?
wanton plover
i believe it was tail
trim sigil
Yeah
random bough
Of course.
maiden geode
oooo a tier for chaos shield
mossy zinc
@maiden geode hm? Chiron is at the top of B tier.
maiden geode
how do I make the most of it? shotgun specials?
as a newbie I would pretty much just spam out specials
which doesn't seem right
mossy zinc
That's pretty much how you do it. You should watch Haelian for how to use it.
trim sigil
How to use Guan Yu:
- Accept your death
- Start winding up the spin
- Die to Slugger Thug
ripe crane
I've never been able to get decent dps out of it
Even shotgunning it just feels weak
Idk maybe I haven't given it enough of a chance
wanton plover
try zeus special
some people also like dio
also its kinda spooky when chaos randomly comments
ripe crane
Doesn't shotgunning Zeus only result in 1 bolt on the target? I mean it seems good for room clears but no dps for bosses
trim sigil
Yes
ripe crane
Probably the wrong channel for this, sorry. I will search for a haelian video tomorrow
mossy zinc
The problem with Guan Yu is that HL5 becomes HL10, and RI3 kills your DPS.
gaunt fiber
GY F 
mossy zinc
Chaos Aspect always had that problem on bosses. Gotta get Jolted for that.
idle sonnet
this
wanton plover
!
wanton plover
guess not :(
ruby cipher
@idle sonnet you can post images thru imgur
or any other image sharing service link I think
cinder cave
what sort of winrate are you guys looking at for 40+
trim sigil
Anything above 0
I don't think there are madlads out there doing consistent wins on 40+
cinder cave
that's fair
thanks
i'm just kinda used to sts system where every base game difficulty is basically winnable run
but you get to a20 and then you're like welp cursed, go next
xd
trim sigil
Ah, well that's about the same here
0 heat runs are extremely hard to lose once you have practiced for a bit
consistent 16 heat probably is still feasible for most who beat it once
trim sigil
32 is where winstreaks get competitive
and 40+ is basically best shots for now
Although I could bet some players could challenge that phrasing and do several wins in a row with favorite aspects
cinder cave
i'm sure
I imagine many seasoned players have aspects they are much better at than others
mossy zinc
I do better with Rama at 50 than Nemesis at 41 lol.
trim sigil
Doing well with swords on 40 but zeus shield probably won't breach 16 lol
bronze viper
Although I could bet some players could challenge that phrasing and do several wins in a row with favorite aspects
@trim sigil I'm pretty sure I can comfortably streak Rama and Chiron at 40. I have incidentally with both on my Switch, but neither past 3, so the sample size is small. Probably solid strat for practicing mechanics though. I'll consider it when I can actually do EM4 semi consistently
trim sigil
Yep
fossil reef
What's your favorite approach for using Rama at 40? I've really been digging this bow a ton
trim sigil
Tbf I'm rather glad 40 slowly becomes a decent territory
bronze viper
Deadly Strike + Imagination
proud jay
40 heat streaks are a fun idea but die easily to witches with bad BP perks
That's my experience anyway
trim sigil
just don't use BP2 cough
bronze viper
Oh for sure. Rama and Chiron at least have built in solid anti projectile abilities with their specials. But I die more to witches than anything else in Tartarus combined.
There is really only so much that can be done about Seeker + Cloner in small rooms lmao
proud jay
Not using BP2 is a pretty good survivao strategy ngl
trim sigil
Probably Divine Dash is a necessity, but the no guarantee of Deadly Strike until Asphodel
hurts
bronze viper
Dracons with JSx also kill me more than anything else in Asphodel combined.
rocky mauve
Do you ever take hunter dash or is it not worth anymore? I'm not sure how i feel about it.
bronze viper
Something about Bruiser + Slugger Dracons just makes me play massively ignorant and tank full volleys to die.
Do you ever take hunter dash or is it not worth anymore? I'm not sure how i feel about it.
@rocky mauve it's so good on Rama and Zag bows. And no, I never take it anymore
mossy zinc
It's not ignorance. It's called homing.