appearntly because somehow that made me win >>
#h1-high-heat-strategies
mossy zinc
Ravenous Will, Frozen Touch, Killing Freeze, Blizzard Shot.
cerulean frigate
frozen touch is super good
daring hedge
arctic blast is great for things like serrated point spear, chiron, etc
sly field
artic blast is a no-brainer if i can get it
cerulean frigate
and sometimes you get a run where artic blast is actually an upside rather than a downside
trim sigil
Ravenous will is alright except when you use stygian
daring hedge
killing freeze
true fable
i just feel like there so much anti synergy
mossy zinc
It's still good with Stygian Soul.
cerulean frigate
even with stygian soul you shoot the cast and you have bonus damage on that cast shot and any actions you take for the next 3 seconds if you don't have more cast stones
trim sigil
Having to cast every 3 seconds to keep boost is too loading
daring hedge
i feel like arctic blast and killing freeze are fine together, considering arctic blast likes weapons that can apply chill rapidly
it's not like it's gone for long
mossy zinc
Yeah, you just reapply immediately anyway.
true fable
thats fair
it just feels like it wasnt really thought through how those two would interact
trim sigil
Main problem of arctic blast tbh is that enemy speed starts varying wildly
mossy zinc
And Arctic Blast spreads Chill, so you're more likely to chill all enemies.
sly field
enemy speed ? plays on FO2 what do you mean @trim sigil
cerulean frigate
it's mostly awkward if like, you've been forced to take dem attack on sword for example just because of rng
cerulean frigate
i'd rather keep the stacks at 10 in that scenario
true fable
question for someone who knows about parting shot mechs
trim sigil
I mean that 1 chill enemies and 10 chill enemies have different timings to their attacks
mossy zinc
Double Edge + Frost Strike is still fine.
true fable
does buying the nemesis crest increase your cast damage in that case
if you have parting shot
true fable
braid def does
daring hedge
today i learned that killing freeze slows by a different amount depending on rarity in addition to the decay damage variance
true fable
i guess theres only one way to find out
daring hedge
i never paid much attention to the slow number lol
mossy zinc
Yes. Nemesis Crest damage will get added to your casts.
cerulean frigate
doesn't the tick rate also vary? i vaguely remember noticing that when i managed to get heroic killing freeze one time
mossy zinc
No, it's always 500 ms a tick.
cerulean frigate
really wish the in game codex let you change the rarity of the boons in the list
to compare stats
daring hedge
yeah
mossy zinc
Glacial Glare bonus duration increases with rarity. Perhaps you're confounding those two.
sly field
maybe dont make everything GREEN
cerulean frigate
though frankly im glad we even have that information in the codex to begin with
sly field
to obscure highlithing
why is the text on aphrodites call damage green when it doesnt even up in damage via lvling or rarity scaling
cerulean frigate
@mossy zinc probably. that run was awhile ago and i was just knocking out prophecies so i ended up with laser.
as bad as it is now it was even worse in early access
mossy zinc
@cerulean frigate that wouldn't work because e.g. Rare Heartbreak Strike can vary from +65% to +75%.
daring hedge
crystal beam can get very good but it takes significant work to get it to that point
but when it's good, it's good
mossy zinc
But you could have something like Hunting Blades at that point lol.
daring hedge
but lasers!
trim sigil
Hunting blades are too slow for some foes. Lasers catch up faster if you place them right
sly field
idk man
cerulean frigate
it's a super cool cast/concept but yeah in practice it's not the payoff you get like hunting blade
sly field
the lasers are sub-optimal at best
true fable
my main issue with hunting blades is how slow they cast
sly field
i have had the art/dem lasers before
they track hades well enough
but the damage is still not super
mossy zinc
One of the best things about the Naegling's Board is that you can't get Crystal Beam.
sly field
it makes aphro's cast useable too @mossy zinc
cerulean frigate
the thing that makes laser go from downgrade cast to playable cast is that boon that lets it apply chill stacks very quickly
trim sigil
Cold Embrace is painful because lasers target you perfectly and don't really focus foes nearby
daring hedge
i wouldn't say aphro cast is unusable without it
sly field
@cerulean frigate those lasers need allot fo boons to make it work tho
true fable
cold embrace just always seemed like worse crystal clarity
mossy zinc
What do you mean? Shatter Shot is great. It's my favorite cast by far.
daring hedge
rip shatter shot we hardly knew ye
true fable
when you never played before 1.0 so you do not know pain
mossy zinc
I stopped playing for about a month when they removed Shatter Shot. 
cerulean frigate
shatter shot was fun and had almost no hitbox problems
sly field
shatter shot did a truck load of damage
cerulean frigate
crush shot languished for a long time with extremely bad interactions
sly field
and had you know range
what does crush shot have
a slight nudge
that inflicts weak
mossy zinc
The only problem Shatter Shot had was that sometimes you pressed cast more often than you needed to because everything was already dead. 
daring hedge
i remember when beo first came out and passion flare was buggy and sometimes lodged casts in foes lol
sly field
Deffinetly (OO)F tier
daring hedge
classic aphro cast behavior
cerulean frigate
nah aphro cast is still good.
weak is a great curse
high base damage and good upgrade scaling
fits naturally with a melee build, which already wants weak more than a ranged one
lodges while still having some aoe
mossy zinc
Charged Shot + Passion Flare several times hit nothing at all yesterday in the Temple of Styx. The Shot hit, enemy was clearly within Cast AOE and took no damage.
mossy zinc
high base damage and good upgrade scaling
Not really, they nerfed the scaling a lot.
sly field
@cerulean frigate funny you think i play melee LUL
daring hedge
who put such a powerful curse on crush shot? must have been someone who really liked shatter shot
mossy zinc
It's still a good cast, though.
cerulean frigate
yeah they did, that's fair. but it's still a pretty solid upgrade for the first couple of poms
true fable
are there any duos affecting crush shot
daring hedge
Charged Shot + Passion Flare several times hit nothing at all yesterday in the Temple of Styx. The Shot hit, enemy was clearly within Cast AOE and took no damage.
@mossy zinc i've actually had this happen with passion flare even without charged shot, wait a minute
true fable
or is it always base crush shot
daring hedge
like, rush up to foes and the flare should clearly hit, but doesn't
sly field
there's blown kiss
true fable
i like that with beo crush shot has its niche
sly field
that makes the cast longer ranged
cerulean frigate
blown kiss is not a duo
mossy zinc
You get easy access to Parting Shot, but it won't change your cast.
trim sigil
There is also probably unhealthy fixation but that's honestly more harmful than helping 
true fable
parting shot+ exposed is insane
true fable
sad
cerulean frigate
shatter shot pls
sly field
they shatterd my shot 😦
mossy zinc
Crushing defeat.
sly field
unhealthy fixation on shatter shot
cerulean frigate
empty inside very fitting boon name for when you think of shatter shot being gone
trim sigil
Speaking of unhealthy fixation, it's so bad that it made shielded theseus shoot the machineguns
like, what
sly field
LUL
mossy zinc
Charm is so inconsistent.
sly field
yup
mossy zinc
Sometimes it will make a Chariot delete all your enemies.
cerulean frigate
i think charm is best if you temper your expectations to "unreliable stun"
sly field
i hardly use aphro's call for the charm
cerulean frigate
and treat chariots deleting enemies as happy accidents
mossy zinc
Sometimes they'll just look at you like "sup" and do nothing at all.
Sometimes they'll still go after you for some reason.
trim sigil
Unreliable stun that makes dad spin you 4 times in a row
daring hedge
at least charmed theseus still calls down all the wrath of olympus upon asterius and it's hilarious
sly field
yup
trim sigil
Yeah, that and chariots deleting stuff are the main reason to look out for charm in first place
cerulean frigate
i've had a charmed rat in styx kill 2 satyrs and another rat
true fable
last fight i charmed asterius in the middle of his beyblade
and he tore theseus to shreds
satisfying to say the least
sly field
sometimes enemies just literally eyeball you for 5s
true fable
even if EM4 hades subsequently dismantled me
daring hedge
bowmen after being charmed: i suddenly forgot how to use a bow
mossy zinc
Strongbows, not charmed: ATTACK, ATTACK, ATTACK, ATTACK!
true fable
is there like a formula for how long certain bosses get charmed?
like hades barely gets stunned at all
whereas it seems to last a while for theseus/asterius
trim sigil
Exalted spirits when charmed: MUST. REVIVE
cerulean frigate
is it bad that i still don't really know what TIny Vermin actually does underneath all the VFX from the boons I have
mossy zinc
I mean, there are only three moves Tiny Vermin can do lol.
cerulean frigate
if I can't see it it can't hurt me
mossy zinc
Dig, summon rats, charge at you.
trim sigil
You really wish
daring hedge
can you charm numbskull piles? what are the ramifications of doing this if so
true fable
you get a numbskull buddy for the rest of the game
trim sigil
Probably would keep spawning uncharmed skulls
cerulean frigate
yes, it still summons numbskulls, the numbskulls are still hostile to you
true fable
summon it and it does 5 dmg
daring hedge
sold
mossy zinc
@daring hedge it builds you an army of Numbskulls you can take on your run. They will fight and die for you and follow your command.
cerulean frigate
mostly i want to charm asterius into being eligible for nectar/ambrosia gifts and romance option
mossy zinc
If you upgrade the Skullomat for 5000 Gemstones, it will build tanks.
cerulean frigate
daring hedge
finally something to spend my exorbitant wealth on
edgy arrow
ok this is some street fighter level myths being born rn
mossy zinc
What myths?
cerulean frigate
Hades should put numbskull spawning piles to ride elite chariots
mossy zinc
I'm saving all my Gemstones for when they add the option to build a Temple for Lady Aphrodite.
trim sigil
Don't forget to put a sneak into the skullomat so the whole thing teleports and backstabs you
daring hedge
mossy zinc
It's just Theseus clones in Chariots fighting for you and laughing maniacally.
cerulean frigate
sneak is one of the worst enemy additions into the game
mossy zinc
Zooming all over the place.
cerulean frigate
also hades can summon them because why the hell not
cerulean frigate
that would be more beneficial than harmful for all the bonuses after kill effects
trim sigil
Until you get poisoned with no fountain in close reach
mossy zinc
At least this is not a thing anymore.
Also if you have Peer Pressure, and you charm your enemies that have Sick, sometimes you Peer Pressure yourself and you take a ton of damage from your own sick.
cerulean frigate
oh, right. the tiny rats are not tiny vermin they're crawlers
im dumb
wait what
lmao
sly field
i'd like to fight tiny vermin with hades but he's not a mini-boss despite his name
high kettle
ok, i must ask the most stupid question possible: what does "seeded" run mean?
sly field
@high kettle what do you think it means?
trim sigil
cough
sly field
bdumm... tsss
mossy zinc
Seeded means you know your first boon/hammer, unseeded means the run seed is random.
high kettle
oh
trim sigil
Each run has a seed to generate the rewards and such. If you restart the run constantly, you have guaranteed first pickup and thus it's seeded
edgy arrow
keepsakes don’t seed
high kettle
i get it now
edgy arrow
you know the god, but not the specific boons
mossy zinc
Seeded run, you'd even know what boons you're offered if you reroll.
cerulean frigate
is there any specific targeting weight for Rare Crop or is it just random
mossy zinc
Seeded makes AP2 a lot easier because you'll have at the very least 1 great boon or hammer upgrade.
@cerulean frigate it's just random.
sly field
i think it just targets the boons that it can target randomly
cerulean frigate
also can it hit epics/heroics
edgy arrow
well, it brings it back to heroic
trim sigil
I'm still salty rare crop didn't hit the hermes attack speed on the flurry blade run
edgy arrow
so there’s potential benefit on an epic
sly field
^
mossy zinc
Imagine Rare Crop as your last AP2 boon right before Hades on your Heroic Heartbreak Flourish.
trim sigil
Why would you pick a demeter gate in first place tbh
static plover
That sounds like death 
mossy zinc
Because miniboss.
static plover
Or 5 sacked
mossy zinc
Or that.
sly field
5 sack?
edgy arrow
the one time when nourished soul would have been better
mossy zinc
Not if you're good like me. 5-sack 50+ Heat TD3, let's go. 
sly field
help?
mossy zinc
= sack in tunnel 5.
cerulean frigate
i love when i take bone hourglass into styx and walk into the hades fight with like, half the boon info screen being just passive bonuses from wells
but it's always a gamble to do that
trim sigil
Every time except one when I took hourglass in styx I kept getting one-time consumables in wells
sly field
having skelly's extra DAD defiance is allways solid
sly field
pom blossom, probably side hustle is the most broken in styx
cerulean frigate
yeah i take that one a lot if i'm like, on a hangover/doom run or have aphro for damage output
mossy zinc
I don't care for Side Hustle with CF2.
trim sigil
Pom Blossom is perfect for 2sack mentality
Game can't allow you getting so much benefit from 4-5sack
mossy zinc
Yeah, I've taken it a few times when "speedrunning".
edgy arrow
it never comes first gate
trim sigil
It's limited at 2 so
edgy arrow
it’s always 2+
cerulean frigate
side hustle is a lot of money but 80% tax is pretty harsh
mossy zinc
Good to know you're not cheating.
mossy zinc
Side Hustle is a lot of not an actual buff from Lord Hermes.
sly field
i never cheat
i did my insanity on sundered without any glitches too so no hysteria cannon reset shennanigansz
mossy zinc
i usually do 1 sack—hikikomori
cerulean frigate
yeah obviously an actual boon is better if your goal is to win the run
mossy zinc
Clear cheating.
trim sigil
I wanted to make high heat clear with epilogue dad gimmick but then accidentally triggered it on farming run anyway
sly field
Clear cheating.
@mossy zinc meanie
static plover
Hermes has a hard limit of 3 since you can sometimes find a hermes boon in the styx shop
mossy zinc
Yeah, and with CF2 that boon is 900 obols lol.
You're not making that much with Side Hustle.
static plover
Anvil is weird and I want to love it but I really wish you chosing what hammer you lost was a thing
cerulean frigate
CF2 might as well be a storeless run for the most part
trim sigil
Yeah I'd actually forgive anvil giving 2 bad hammers if I were able to recycle a current worse one
mossy zinc
Anvil is amazing when your hammers are passable but not amazing.
sly field
i had the most insane high roll
mossy zinc
You only really need 1 good hammer anyway.
cerulean frigate
i bought anvil because i needed 1 more for the codex on a sword run and got world splitter + cursed slash
mossy zinc
That's a winning combo.
cerulean frigate
perhaps if you are good at the "just don't get hit 4Head" strat
mossy zinc
I mean World Splitter + Cursed Slash is a winning combo.
You gotta have High Confidence, though.
You win all the bragging rights. It's great.
sly field
🙂
trim sigil
One of my anvils took Relentless Volley and gave Explosive Twin shot on chiron
sly field
i live for the bragging rights
cerulean frigate
i tend to do really cleanly throughout the run then lose a crapton of hp in the first phase of em4 hades
mossy zinc
Why would you even take the Anvil if you have Relentless Volley on Chiron?
You take the Anvil if you don't have Relentless Volley lol.
mossy zinc
Relentless > Concentrated
trim sigil
But both...
cerulean frigate
relentless volley is more damage than concentrated anyway
sly field
i agree with @mossy zinc here
relentless is miles better then Conc
you dont wanna oops rerolled volley and got like explosive shot
cerulean frigate
i think anvil is really good on fists though. really the only bad hit is the 3 hit slow punch depending on the build
sly field
time to never tget that shot off against hades LULK
trim sigil
That's not a point (although I agree with it). Point is having both is better than 1
Which is why i risked and gained the funniest hades fight ever
mossy zinc
Concentrated does more single-target damage, but Relentless just tends to hit more things and isn't bothered by any of the arrows hitting a different target and resetting your combo.
trim sigil
cerulean frigate
im mostly just glad that bow has 4 aspects that are all viable at high heat (though hera obv suffers most of the 4) that are distinct enough from one another
and overall is a good weapon
trim sigil
Sword is close enough with 3 aspects
sly field
zags aspect i do not enjoy tho
mossy zinc
Hera only suffers from RI3, which is somewhere 50+.
trim sigil
Haha funny chop go brr
- Zag sword, probably
sly field
i used to be all hot for poseidons aspect on sword
wanton plover
zag sword :(
sly field
wave blade for casts build where pretty good
cerulean frigate
i don't like cast builds all that much so Poseidon sword is whatever
mossy zinc
Hardest nerf to cast builds was adding Chaos boons that aren't +1 ammo or cast damage.
cerulean frigate
and zag sword gets that "there was an attempt" sticker next to nemesis/arthur
sly field
yeah got into bows and guns way more now so barely touching the sword
trim sigil
Rail is superior because its' cast aspect is anything else too 
sly field
@mossy zinc chaos got nerfed a bit too hard tho
he used to be such a good damage % buff on like special
rail has a cast aspect?
sly field
oh right
cerulean frigate
so it can be a cast build
sly field
true
cerulean frigate
though the reality of eris is more of a "every button I press is good" build
sly field
eris is my fave
i want to like lucifer
i really want to
but i feel it falls short on areas
cerulean frigate
Hestia is a lot of fun to play and isn't just straight up easy mode
sly field
hestia's aspect is ... well.. it exsists..
mossy zinc
It falls short by not having a global +75% damage buff.
Hestia is great.
#1 for boss fights still.
sly field
hestia i kinda used in ea but never activated in 1.0
cerulean frigate
I miss old spread fire even though it was extremely overpowered
trim sigil
Could always zag rail yolo into spread fire tbh
sly field
ye
trim sigil
It's so short range so it can't be op
said no one ever
trim sigil
Guess I only saw slightly younger spread fire then
sly field
LUL i never played old chaos.. i allways went blitz
cerulean frigate
yeah i miss that too. as overpowered as it was it was fun to play. i find the new chaos shield to be pretty bland
edgy arrow
i don’t hate the new chaos shield, but it’s certainly less cool
cerulean frigate
least favorite aspect in the game despite it being good
edgy arrow
i’ve mostly moved to beo
mossy zinc
I'm sad that Charged Flight was nerfed. It was perfectly reasonable.
edgy arrow
400 is a pretty small number, if you think about it
mossy zinc
I did not manage to type that with a straight face.
sly field
LUL
edgy arrow
was gonna say lol
sly field
i miss the old zag spear special
that just one shots the hydra
with all the chaos special % bonus
cerulean frigate
mostly im just bothered by how low the base special damage is for the non beowulf shields are
mossy zinc
Charged Skewer is just better Charged Flight now. Maybe that's why I've been playing Guan Yu so much lately.
The -50% HP hurts, though.
trim sigil
Legit question
Did anyone try dashing flight?
edgy arrow
yeah after you play beo for a bit it’s even more obvious
sly field
Guan yu is fun tho @mossy zinc i have been playing guan yu allot
edgy arrow
it’s like, why does zag shield even have a special? does anyone use it?
sly field
what is zag's special?
trim sigil
Throw a 25 dmg shield
sly field
inst it jut inferior versions of the aspects
trim sigil
remain without main attack while the shield flies
sly field
oh wow no...
mossy zinc
No, it's 15 damage lol.
mossy zinc
- What are you thinking.
edgy arrow
yeah it’s 15 lmao
sly field
thats baby numbers
cerulean frigate
it's so pathetic
mossy zinc
25 would be way too high for Chaos Aspect.
edgy arrow
^
cerulean frigate
yeah but chaos aspect still sort of limits you to thunder flourish on the special if you want it to do real damage
edgy arrow
well, thunder flourish chaos was hit hard by the nerf
sly field
question? why not blitz discx
edgy arrow
so idk what the chaos prostrat is anymore
sly field
since it can do some insane damage with the right boons
mossy zinc
I figured I would care more for Chaos Aspect if they ever changed it, but I find myself still not caring lol.
sly field
- the shield that you can just let you follow or yeet it in the room somewhere
cerulean frigate
but yeah zag shield might as well have no special
sly field
i honestly love zeus aspect
cerulean frigate
it leaves you vulnerable and doesn't do damage
sly field
you can use special and attack
mossy zinc
I'm loyal to Beowulf.
sly field
why? cuz of the dragon rush?
trim sigil
Slap doom on it, that's it
mossy zinc
Because it got me 52 Heat WR at the time.
cerulean frigate
and its upgrade incentivizes you to just go full braindead and put divine dash and strike with the hammer that makes attacks hit 2 times but not push
trim sigil
Press Q to 115 dmg
cerulean frigate
and become literally unkillable
edgy arrow
beo is best shield tbh
sly field
@mossy zinc ahh so you're also legit good at this game ❤️
cerulean frigate
beo is most like what i would have expected the shield to be when i first tried it
so it's the one i play with
sly field
beo is actually more a Shield then the other 2 are
trim sigil
Zag shield is what zag sword wants to be
cerulean frigate
zag shield is just sword that blocks
sly field
LUL
edgy arrow
45 base damage isn’t nothing
sly field
i legit fell from my chair reading that
edgy arrow
but ye i never use zag shield either lol
trim sigil
Tbh I loved zag shield
sly field
zag shield you use once
edgy arrow
past tense?
sly field
when doing the first save file
trim sigil
it just has some primal ape tier energy
sly field
then never touch it untill you unlock aspects
cerulean frigate
legitimately 45 base damage on how fast it attacks is pretty good
edgy arrow
fair enough
trim sigil
It's 40 base
edgy arrow
i should prolly give it a chance, but the others are just more exciting
trim sigil
But still fairly good
edgy arrow
oh yeah 40 mb
sly field
@trim sigil as oposed to the non-primal ape energy
sly field
i think apes are primal LUL i dont think it needs to be said / noted
edgy arrow
woha
sly field
woah 11 minutes?
edgy arrow
that’s fast
sly field
is that a record?
cerulean frigate
12, sorry
trim sigil
It's just so wild that either of words alone do not actually convey the full spectrum
cerulean frigate
and no it's not a record
edgy arrow
is zag shield actually good for speedrunning, or are you just a pro lol
sly field
@trim sigil gotcha
trim sigil
It's not too good, but it's like if you had current spread fire on by default
edgy arrow
fair
cerulean frigate
we're talking about a run that had 300% or so backstab bonus damage with priv status, deflect dash/heroic athena attack and the 2x attack hammer with no knockback
mossy zinc
Beowulf is currently the #1 shield for speedruns.
sly field
ahh it used to be chaos right before 1.0
cerulean frigate
it was almost as fast as what a speedrunner can do with beowulf
and i basically just mashed attack and was invincible because deflect
sly field
nice
edgy arrow
what actually is the 32 record these days?
mossy zinc
There's no 32-heat category.
mossy zinc
They had a 32-heat speedrun category.
edgy arrow
wait it’s gone?
mossy zinc
It's gone.
edgy arrow
huh
mossy zinc
There's a 50 speedrun category now.
Nemesis/Poseidon
Achilles
Beowulf
Hera
Demeter
Eris
sly field
hera?
mossy zinc
That's the speedrun meta for all-weapons currently.
cerulean frigate
there's no 32 category because 50 heat category exists and it would take 1 run for the 50 heat leaders to also be the leaders for 32
sly field
LUL
mossy zinc
No. Tidal Dash for speedruns.
mossy zinc
Lightning Strike, Tidal Dash, Sea Storm.
cerulean frigate
are you seriously trying to tell me there are dashes other than empty dash and athena dash right now
i don't believe you
edgy arrow
other gods having dash? idk sounds fake 
static plover
there's poseidon dash, so there's 3 dashes 
cerulean frigate
Poseidon dash doens't count because tempest strike exists. drags it into the realm of nonexistence with how bad it is
cerulean frigate
for real though i've been forcing myself to not take athena dash and use silly dashes like the blade rift one.
edgy arrow
idk about demeter’s dash tbh
sly field
demeters dash just does damage why also inflicting chill
edgy arrow
i feel like taking it plays into demeter’s master plan to give me nourished soul when i least expect it
cerulean frigate
demeter dash is pretty good on melee weapons when you are dashing at and through enemies constantly
sly field
demeters dash is also pretty good on bow
cerulean frigate
but it's bad with the ranged weapons since you mostly kite or strafe
sly field
since you slow whatever got caught in your trail dodge
oh i disagree @cerulean frigate it's pretty good on the bow/gun
edgy arrow
what i’ve learned from running LC4:
-how to not take hits
-nourished soul is my nemesis now
cerulean frigate
i don't mind lc 1/2 but 3/4 just feel like it goes against core game design and balance that supergiant went for
sly field
nourished soul is that thing that allways comes
when you least want it
i feel allot of things went what supergiant went for
mossy zinc
I don't enjoy Eris at all at the moment.
sly field
like how TD and calistenics and jursummons make it impossible to run TD
how come @mossy zinc
edgy arrow
i mean, not impossible
cerulean frigate
Eris is just too easy
edgy arrow
just like, hard
mossy zinc
What Veritas said.
cerulean frigate
im not even that good overall and I still have a 40 clear with eris
sly field
ah gotcha
cerulean frigate
and it didn't feel like i earned it
sly field
i have a 40 clear with bow
and started running 50
cuz i wanted to break bablo's record
wich was at 50
now tail did it on 55
edgy arrow
skipping from 40 to 50
sly field
but im still gonna set my own
edgy arrow
nice lol
sly field
i got to hades like 3 times with eris and elyisum with the bow i really need to start going back to rama bow
cerulean frigate
it's also just not the most interactive aspect in the game either overall, you press special and then win with everything else
sly field
chiron doesnt hold up much in 50+ heat
cerulean frigate
like as OP as arthur is, you still have to play very deliberately with it
sly field
yup
sly field
arthur is op period
edgy arrow
DC2 is even worse
sly field
DC2 is free heat
mossy zinc
Excalibur falls off at high heats.
edgy arrow
DC2 isn’t free heat on arthur lol
sly field
didnt that russian guy clear 45 heat with it
trim sigil
And ye there was a 45 by them
sly field
also is it me or do allot of the heat mods feel.. not as fun to play with
trim sigil
You are correct on that
wanton plover
yes true
cerulean frigate
but yeah ever since i made the switch from eris to hestia rail has been one of my favorites to play
edgy arrow
pretty subjective
sly field
hestia is reload gives shot damage right?
wanton plover
yes
cerulean frigate
the only one that i think is universally unfun is approval process
sly field
like 1 bonus base 80 damage shot x
cerulean frigate
a big part of roguelites/likes is decision making in a run
edgy arrow
i unironically love BP2, which a lot of people hate, and FO2 has grown on me
sly field
oh i was just talking about some of the heat mods in general
mossy zinc
Empowered Shot does 150 base damage lol.
cerulean frigate
why take away the ability to make decisions tbh
edgy arrow
some people even like AP so there’s that as well
sly field
i love FO2
mossy zinc
AP2 is fun.
sly field
i run allmost everything except like 4 heat mods
but i guess if wanna push beyond 55 i have to swap some things over
wraith imp
AP2 is fun.
@mossy zinc
for psychopaths
sly field
hey i take my psychopatism with pride thanks
edgy arrow
thankfully, this game is inclusive and has options for psychopaths
sly field
@mossy zinc Fierce!
wraith imp
"Hi, NSA? I want to report an individual."
sly field
where they playing hades?
trim sigil
Lemme see what options are non-neutral for fun for me
EM, BP, FO sometimes; fun
AP, HS, RI; not fun
cerulean frigate
I like RI 1 and 2
mossy zinc
NSA. I'm in Germany.
edgy arrow
heightened security is such a yeet
like, this is fine, this is fine WTH 150 DAMAGE URN
wraith imp
NSA. I'm in Germany.
@mossy zinc
American blacks ops has unlimited jurisdiction.
cerulean frigate
I don't really like that DC is either free heat or one of the worst things you can add depending on the weapon
sly field
@edgy arrow i know that feeling dashing head first into a saw trap from styx
mossy zinc
@wraith imp I'm not scared. Your president wouldn't find my country on a map—or a map in the first place.
sly field
not scared either since my country has been misnamed for generations
trim sigil
JS also can be free or not free heat depending on weapon
sly field
and they think it's germany @mossy zinc . Im dutch so you're german?
cerulean frigate
still waiting on personal liability/responsibility or whatever it's called to be purchasable through house contractor in non hell mode
sly field
ehh
static plover
I'm not scared either as my country doesn't even exist, and we're all just payed actors 
sly field
or just make a hell mode save @cerulean frigate
edgy arrow
same tbh
sly field
@static plover what mystical land is that?
cerulean frigate
hell mode forces you to run specific heat conditions which is counterintuitive to what the heat system allows you to do
edgy arrow
it’s a pretty sick job just pretending a country exists on the internet
trim sigil
Greece, clearly
static plover
Australia @sly field
sly field
oh noice
mossy zinc
@sly field no, I'm a cat girl.
sly field
i'm a paleidian
@sly field no, I'm a cat girl.
@mossy zinc is that more cat then girl or more girl then cat?
or is it balanced 50/50
mossy zinc
Flamewheels have entered the chat.
sly field
purring/growling/meowing
trim sigil
Well, they don't look like cats. They only make the sound 😔
cerulean frigate
the flamewheels literally meow at you
but unlike cats you do not want to pet and cuddle them
sly field
i wanna pet and cuddle the flamewheels
edgy arrow
i kinda wanna pet and cuddle them
cerulean frigate
Elysium confirmed most miserable place to live
mossy zinc
How do you know they don't look like cats? You should get closer and take a better look.
sly field
i bet they are like cats when you not try to escape hell
static plover
I wanna pet an cuddle them, I just don't want them to explode on my face
trim sigil
Indeed
edgy arrow
they explode to show affection
sly field
@static plover just like real cats you wanna pet them but dont wanna get scratched
edgy arrow
flamewheels are just misunderstood
cerulean frigate
although I suppose if you are already dead and a shade them exploding does not matter so much
mossy zinc
high-heat strategies
cat girls and wolves
trim sigil
Keeping morals high is a part of the strategy
mossy zinc
I agree.
sly field
im just gonna fling you at DAD
mossy zinc
Wait, what?
trim sigil
Also technically you could pet the flamewheels if you charm them first
edgy arrow
Also technically you could pet the flamewheels if you charm them first
@trim sigil now that is a high heat strategy
mossy zinc
1v1. See me in the courtyard. Let's see who flings who, kouhai.
cerulean frigate
here's a high heat strategy for Hades:
chambers now stay locked forever. actual no escape
sly field
@mossy zinc kakatte koi
sly field
appearntly i've been invited to a duel
edgy arrow
hmm physical violence isn’t mentioned, carry on
sly field
@mossy zinc can we double team instead if it ends up being a draw?
mossy zinc
It's not a duel. I'm just giving a lecture.
edgy arrow
on the internet, that’s the same as a duel
sly field
^
trim sigil
Real stuff though, yeah
Why doesn't hades just block the bridge in temple of styx?
mossy zinc
I always win on the internet.
trim sigil
or destroy it altogether
edgy arrow
because there’s no way that Zagreus, known beneficiary of Poseidon, could possibly know how to swim, right?
trim sigil
because there’s no way that Zagreus, known beneficiary of Poseidon, could possibly know how to swim, right?
well, you see, if that actually worked, then when zagreus dies (is taken by styx), he could have just swim wherever he wants instead of house
sly field
@trim sigil cuz hades actually wants to challenge his son for bonding
mossy zinc
52 Heat.
sly field
also
edgy arrow
nothing charon loves more than transport taxes
sly field
that he can just swipe away 2 death defies
cerulean frigate
You know, everything on FO1 for the most part feels like it's 20% faster. But then there is Charon
He feels like 50% faster
mossy zinc
I don't care too much for the Charon fight, personally.
sly field
charon on 40% is instant
mossy zinc
I usually don't have time for that lol.
mossy zinc
Yes.
cerulean frigate
It's also just a slog of a fight typically
He has so much hp and the way he attacks doesn't leave as much room for the hyper aggressive strats you can do against other bosses
edgy arrow
might be possible to mess him up in elysium, but by then what’s even the point
otherwise it slow
trim sigil
Yeah it's pretty sad that you can't really fight charon on td because the dude takes an eternity
sly field
how much tight deadline are you @mossy zinc
i mean offcourse how much tight do you run LOL
cerulean frigate
I would do fine with a TD 2.5
mossy zinc
You should probably edit that.
sly field
7 minutes?
cerulean frigate
But 3 is too fast for me majority of runs
sly field
You should probably edit that.
@mossy zinc yo thanks edit it
mossy zinc
TD3 most of the time.
sly field
how do you handle 5 minutes region clears
sly field
do you just have full mirror boon choice
mossy zinc
Same way I handled pre-1.0 TD2, just faster.
trim sigil
iirc the most crucial step for TD3 is taking any midshops even if you can't buy anything
mossy zinc
Yeah, just basic speedrun strats.
sly field
yeah im not the speedrunner
mossy zinc
Chaos Gates skip chambers.
sly field
im fresh here
trim sigil
Chaos is a possibility, as long as you don't get cucked by chaos boon itself
+60% foes on 4 encounters 
If you run LC4 you probably run SD so it's not a huge concern
edgy arrow
^
mossy zinc
I wonder how much fewer 40+ clears there would be if Bruiser and FO2 had never been nerfed lol.
sly field
i never ran stubborn defiance
edgy arrow
unless you mess up and don’t have enough hp to enter the gate lol
trim sigil
People would just not take BP2 and FO2, right?
cerulean frigate
There was one run where I was on chiron bow and every chaos boon was take damage when you special
With no rerolls
edgy arrow
once i had a complete full wine build and hit EM3 with damage on cast
wanton plover
what wpuld your pact look like for 45 heat zag bow
assuming twin shot hammer out the gate
mossy zinc
@trim sigil but then they'd have to deal with all the other things lol.
wanton plover
its not bad :(
sly field
it's SO BAD
cerulean frigate
lol
edgy arrow
it’s not that bad lol
mossy zinc
BP2 is 5 Heat and FO2 is 3 Heat more than FO1. So that's 8 Heat they'd have to get from somewhere lol.
sly field
compared to the other aspects zags aspect is pretty bad tho
trim sigil
but then they'd have to deal with all the other things lol.
exactly. I just remembered the words of wisdom for AP2
mossy zinc
As I've said earlier today, my bad RNG times with Zag bow are better than my good RNG times with Chiron.
Er.
About the same.
sly field
fair
mossy zinc
So, good RNG times are better with Zag bow.
cerulean frigate
Crit chance is pretty good when crits are 3x. And zag bow gives you 10% on the attack which hits hard from the getgo
sly field
but tailesque did rama bow and is going for that one now
trim sigil
Chiron exists to get the "Slow and Steady" clear messages
cerulean frigate
It also doesn't suffer as badly in small rooms as chiron does
sly field
true
cerulean frigate
Chiron can be a struggle in Styx small chambers
sly field
but then you could better run Rama
trim sigil
I suppose that the cheapest aspect wouldn't make sense to be better than others
edgy arrow
lmao styx chiron
trim sigil
Although it's still sad
edgy arrow
i kill the walls real gud
sly field
i never struggled in styx with chiron tbh
i struggled against larger open areas like elyisium
since the special doesnt have infite range
edgy arrow
it’s less “struggle” and more “this should be faster”
sly field
ye
cerulean frigate
And yeah rama is strong but it's so vastly different as well
sly field
the walls are your friend
edgy arrow
like, small styx rooms are never actually going to be dangerous
trim sigil
I have a feeling that the rama's attack is much more damage than regular bow at any state of chargeup
mossy zinc
I only really played Rama day 1 in the Blood Price beta lol.
sly field
oof
mossy zinc
When it was still a LMG with Swift Flourish.
trim sigil
By the time you'd get zag bow's power shot rama would already have 80-100 base
trim sigil
Would have said something about a health concern but I did and will do same stuff so lol
mossy zinc
The name already implies a health concern lol.
trim sigil
The channel name does indeed
sly field
@mossy zinc i mean it's rona can you blame me
trim sigil
also this channel has self promo?
I think you need to #self-promotion instead of here
mossy zinc
#self-promotion is the self promotion channel.
mossy zinc
Sure. It's the phone's fault.
sly field
it is scrolled to books-and-comics and i thought that was the last channel LOL
mossy zinc
Sure.
sly field
hey not my fault this discord has like 25+ channels
@mossy zinc also do you know what my name means or where you talking about the channel
trim sigil
yes it is. you totally could have changed that discord to have less channels
sly field
if so bonus points for you
mossy zinc
I know what hikikomori are, yes.
sly field
cuz ... literally everyone is either struggling with pronouncing it etc
mossy zinc
Any cat girl would know.
sly field
any "true" cat girl would know
trim sigil
or any gamer, for that matter, apparently
because i just looked it up and it's a fitting term
sly field
it's a common term actually but in japan it's a issue for the population
well in fear of derailing this topic any further i really feel tired now
so thanks for talking strats
trim sigil
late sky
Is there some reference for the general consensus of the difficulty of each Pact option? I'm at low heat levels at the moment and could use some recommendations getting into higher levels
cinder cave
If you're climbing low heat I'd recommend just trying them all yourself
you need to for prophecy anyway
and none of the modifiers are really run destroying by themselves
bearing in mind certain weapons and aspects can change the balance of pact options
e.g. Damage Control is quite annoying if you're spamming gun special, but it's really no big deal for chiron bow
late sky
that's fair, I actually forgot about the prophecy, so I guess I'll mess around with them. Thanks! 
cinder cave
you're welcome :)
hollow lynx
@hollow lynx turns out you can repel dadspear with just, the attack itself lol
@daring hedge i uh... oh.
maiden geode
@hollow lynx meg got your tongue?
hollow lynx
repulse shot so op it makes things repulse even when you don’t have it
trim sigil
Sea storm tempest flourish chiron seems to be dead
Not too bad either, just follows the ICD and stuff
So it's 2-in-1 special instead of whatever it was back then
mossy zinc
Yeah, I tried that yesterday and was disappointed.
It wasn't bad, just not what I hoped for.
bronze viper
It felt a bit like connecting the pieces of Exodia and getting... Thunder Flourish
mossy zinc
That's what you get for running an Exodia deck smh.
trim sigil
It felt a bit like connecting the pieces of Exodia and getting... Thunder Flourish
well, yeah. Although then again, getting essentially a second t1 special boon isn't too bad of a deal
If duos were slightly reliable in first place it would definitely be on top of chiron strats
bronze viper
Also, one of the plusses of starting with Deadly Flourish is that common is not that different from Epic lol. If you start Conch Shell and you get common Tempest Flourish, hoo boy.
rocky mauve
Can chiron work well with dire misfortune doom special? Never tried it.
bronze viper
Yes
trim sigil
Sounds rather slow tbh, but it can work
Maybe if it was divine strike, curse of pain, dire misfortune and ME...
But ME admittedly works on anything
rocky mauve
Could put aphro on attack for ticking doom duo
trim sigil
The ultimate boss killer
bronze viper
Hmm, yeah that's doesn't actually sound too bad. I would recommend you swap the Ares and Aphro boons though hahaha
To leverage your base damages
It's not as good once you get the duo but it's less of a disaster if you don't
rocky mauve
Yeah i guess if you are gonna use aphro you might as well scrap dire misfortune
bronze viper
And you specifically need the duo + Dire Misfortune
rocky mauve
Dire misfortune often feels rarer than duos
bronze viper
Pff, I get it all the time when I just want a value doom on something
rocky mauve
I never get it when i want it
trim sigil
It feels like Doom-related legendary
bronze viper
It'd be nice if there was a Curse of Nausea-style Doom Legendary
mossy zinc
Duo Boons are in a different pool. There's a low chance for a Legendary or Duo Boon, but if you're only eligible for one Duo, the odds can be pretty good.
Whereas Dire Misfortune can share a pool with 10+ boons.
Yarn of Ariadne etc. also won't affect your odds of getting Dire Misfortune but increase your odds of getting the Duo Boon.
sly remnant
that is really interesting. i didn't know that specific interaction. thank you
rocky mauve
They do? I thought they only raised the rarity by one after the boons were rolled
That's indeed good to know
bronze viper
Yeah, Yarn is oddly phrased
mossy zinc
For Yarn of Ariadne and Refreshing Nectar, you have a better chance at a legendary or duo (that's the first roll), a better chance at epic (that's the second roll), and a 100% chance at a rare if the boon wasn't a legendary/duo or epic.
Exchanges are somewhere in there but unaffected, as far as I know.
sly remnant
that explains why yarn and nectar don't stack if thats the mechanics of the roll
bronze viper
I thought they do stack
mossy zinc
They stack for legendary tier and epic rolls.
But 100% rare + 100% rare will still be rare.
bronze viper
Right. They wouldn't stack if you're considering the literal phrasing of the buffs
But they don't work that way, so you're not swimming in Heroics
sly remnant
i should have been more clear. thats what i meant
mossy zinc
Maybe you can write the boon descriptions in their next game.
bronze viper
I get what they were going for, but I wish there was some indicator it helped for Duos.
Like using the normal rarity+ templating
mossy zinc
"I get what they were going for, but I wish . . ." is what I think of a lot of descriptions tbh lol.
trim sigil
The real question now is
God's legacy is x+10% to get a duo/leggie or (x*1.1)% to get them?
mossy zinc
It's like my own gripe with the game. Although at this point it doesn't matter too much anymore because I know most interactions like that.
I'm pretty sure it's +10%.
bronze viper
I was made aware a couple of days ago that I was grossly misinterpreting what Dashing Flight does lol. I thought it either did nothing or very slightly increased the speed of your special while you are dashing, as in, you release the special and then Dash
mossy zinc
That's what I used to think lol.
But you need to Dash first, then Special. Like a Dash-Special.
sly remnant
Dashing flight might be the worst written description in the game to be fair
rocky mauve
I had to sit around throwing the shield in different fashions to understand what dashing flight did
bronze viper
They could have said "Your Dash-Special is faster and deals +100% damage" and that would have conveyed the information at least honestly, if not slightly confusingly since Shields don't normally have a dash special
rocky mauve
Well fists have one
hollow lynx
it should be affected by all dash strike boons, like dash upper is 👍
mossy zinc
Malphon and nothing else lol.
sly remnant
"You shield now has a dash-special that is faster and deals 100% more damage"
hollow lynx
^
bronze viper
I'm salty for all the times I apparently was trying to placebo effect myself when I was forced to take Dashing Flight and wishing it actually did something by dashing around like an idiot after I released shields lol
trim sigil
Imagine if arthur's special animation into dash received dash strike bonuses
hollow lynx
and then you can have a little tooltip like: "Dash Special: Dash, then press Special for a special Special."
mossy zinc
Malphon's Dash-Special, of course, is affected by Dash-Strike boons and not affected by Dash-Strike hammers. Aegis's Dashing Flight Dash-Special is of course not affected by any Dash-Special boons at all.
This is intuitive.
And well explained in the game.
hollow lynx
but it's not a dash-special, nyaanyaa 😛
trim sigil
Not to mention malphon's dash-special is dash-upper
hollow lynx
"when you dash, your special goes zoom" is what it says
bronze viper
It's a While-you-Dash-your-Special
mossy zinc
While I dash, I'm special?
trim sigil
While I dash, I'm special?
- every Nemesis main
bronze viper
Gets Greatest Reflexes Epic
Dashes around fiercely
Is it working?!?!?
trim sigil
Nah, bow mains are special after dash
hollow lynx
i propose we have a pseudo dash-special hammer for every weapon
and they're all worded perfectly, except for dashing flight
sly remnant
I also think enabling hammers and boons in skelly room would help figure this stuff out
bronze viper
@wraith imp would implode
sly remnant
But it would be a lot of work for a niche audience
bronze viper
Luckily modders have already done it lol
So SGG doesn't have to worry about that niche
trim sigil
Damn, time to install those mods and finally start the damage sheet
rocky mauve
Last time i checked modding it was still exclusively cheats
bronze viper
I mean, all things considered, a boon picker is still a cheat lol. But it's a useful one
trim sigil
Mods are either cheats or QoL, depending on severity
mossy zinc
While you Dash, your Special gains any bonuses you have for striking foes from behind.
hollow lynx
mossy zinc
I think that's a great description. Am I hired?
bronze viper
Parting Dash
hollow lynx
dashing part
there's a lot of things wrong amazing about this description, i love it
While you Dash, your Special gains any bonuses you have for striking foes from behind.
- Successive Hit Damage: 50%
mossy zinc
Wut.
trim sigil
Don't forget the * Max Gauge Bonus: 9 seconds
bronze viper
Hmm, Aphro does have a large number of very weird Duo templates lol
mossy zinc
@bronze viper you take that back. 🔫
fires parting shots
@bronze viper - - - - - - - 🔫
bronze viper
Heart Rend is also a weird unique templating. "Bonus Critical Damage"
wanton plover
lets say they make a pact that makes all boons common, no rare epic legend duo
hollow lynx
for funsies that 50% is additive not multiplicative
wanton plover
how much heat is that worth in your opinion
rocky mauve
<- <- <- <- <- <- <- 🔫
Now it's true shots
mossy zinc
That's just AP2 + RI1 lol.
bronze viper
@wanton plover That is basically what you sign up for with RI1, so... 2
hollow lynx
heart rend vs clean kill, who needs clarity?
wanton plover
i see
bronze viper
Any rare+ with RI1 are nice, but not reliable
mossy zinc
But since it's you who's asking, it's worth 9887 Heat.
trim sigil
Well ofc there is Rare Crop but
bronze viper
RI1 also gives you -4 Persuasion and -20% Dark Foresight, so the limitation of boon rarity is the least impactful of the 3 downsides lol
sly remnant
tbf you still have the CHANCE to roll above
bronze viper
Oh, sure, but it's the closest comparison we have.
AP2 + RI1 isn't quite right because I would take 3 common boon offerings over 1 variable boon offering 1000 times to 1
trim sigil
Well, just like you still have chance on rares with keepsakes and whatnot
AP2 + RI1 isn't quite right because I would take 3 common boon offerings over 1 variable boon offering 1000 times to 1
so much this tbh
mossy zinc
Why?