Some one can wrtite about this. becaus its hard for me in different languege.
Premium vintage indeed does not count for FF
@bright raptor
#h1-high-heat-strategies
lost otter
bright raptor
I dunno if it's considered tech support in particular
dry flame
bright raptor
I'll probably just F10 it
lost otter
I dunno if it's considered tech support in particular
@bright raptor its regular boon from Dionisis and its do not count as FF bonus.
i think its 100% bug
god boon do not count in FF
daring hedge
f10 seems better, because certain boons may not count intentionally due to balance reasons, we just don't know
f10 is a good way to communicate "hey this seems wrong" even if it might be fine
it's good info for the devs regardless
grizzled pollen
Chaos does not tho correct?
bright raptor
Yeah I sent them an F10. Regardless, it's good info to know (although probably not that frequently impactful on boon picks)
lost otter
we find only one.can be another not counted boons.from now on, you should be more careful with this buff from FF
bright raptor
I imagine it's probably the same case for other unsellable boons (rare crop, nourished soul etc.)
daring hedge
i doubt it would be hard to test with another unsellable boon like rare crop or nourished soul
yeah
daring hedge
ingame bug reporter
true fable
yeah gotcha
im tired of gettin savaged by elysium
gonna give 32 heat another try after going to different weps for a bit
daring hedge
so this happened and i wonder if it's the same as like
having asterius ram into you without hurting you sometimes
just was super weird because i didn't have divine dash
true fable
does regular dash's intangibility frames still have a hurtbox?
delicate hedge
I need to give the 32 heat a try but not sure which pacts to use
true fable
what ive learned is just dont pick the things you cant live without
ie if you step into lava a lot like me just leave HS off LOL
delicate hedge
Still need to do a full EM 4 run also
lost otter
i find another boon what do not count in FF.(another man say me) its rare crop from demeter.
foggy ruin
i'll make both antos and repulse shot work
In a streamer's chat yesterday we were talking about your 54 heat clear, people wouldn't believe me that you relied a lot on power shots with Rama because it was so slow
bright raptor
Weirdly enough sunken treasure from Poseidon does count for FF
foggy ruin
So it should really be a bug then if other unsellable boons count towards FF
daring hedge
@foggy ruin people underestimate rama power shots so often haha, they're really doable after 1.0
lost otter
unsellable????
daring hedge
before 1.0, though... maybe not so much
bright raptor
daring hedge
Weirdly enough sunken treasure from Poseidon does count for FF
oh wow, that's bizarre
lost otter
rare crop (2 boons became heroic), treasuere =keepsake impact, premium vintage= free heal.
delicate hedge
foggy ruin
unsellable????
If you can't sell them at the red fountains
lost otter
and what about last @bright raptor screenshot i dont know what to say.1 god but FF 10%
holy cow
bright raptor
You'll have to take my word (and the gems and darkness on the floor) that I took sunken treasure
lost otter
strange things come to light
bright raptor
It might be because sunken treasure is the only unsellable boon they have to keep track of as a prerequisite (for that fishing legendary.) Either way I sent another bug report /shrug
No brain pain about what boons counts,and what boons no
loud coral
Is FF really worth it? Personally I think PS is just better since it's more damage and not too hard to proc but FF is probably better for consistency
bright raptor
I don't think it ends up making all that big of a difference. Since the god still ends up in your god pool you're pretty likely to take a different boon from the same god anyway
lost otter
its matter. you know why? becaus when you have CAST build. you in most of situations to have bonus damage must apply 2 debufs BEFORE use cast and almost all casts have big range. and its imposible to apply 2 debuffs at same time to all potential targets.
probably FF for cast build
wanton plover
with ap and uc, privilege is not so easy to fulfill and family is always active from chamber one which matters because the earliest part of the game is the hardest
lost otter
with ap and uc
@wanton plover what is this?
wanton plover
approval process and underworld customs
lost otter
are you serios?
wanton plover
yes
wanton plover
so
lost otter
so where problem with boons?
lost otter
whana 10 more screen shots on 32+ with both pact?
wanton plover
you can do whatever you want its ok arguing with you wont make me a better player
lost otter
we all time here "arguing" to find better solutions and be better to handle more Heat
the game has too many ways of passing and combinations for one person to know everything. and we all time arguing about what better
lost otter
with out athena attack?
daring hedge
yeah, no deflect happening there; deadly strike
lost otter
REALY????what a cheat maaaaan))) jesus how many hidden mechanics in game
after THAT GIF i start test WEIRD things. REALY. im still in shock.
foggy ruin
That's some dragonball stuff right there
maiden geode
people dissing rama attack don't understand that damage per second doesn't need to happen in a quarter of a second
loud coral
I honestly love Rama’s attack, probably my second favorite hidden aspect with Arthur being the first
Plus the special feels incredibly satisfying to use when it hits multiple targets
maiden geode
someone likes their hits big
mossy zinc
What 2nd hammer do you try to get with GY spear...
Assuming Charged Skewer and 3x dash strike?
@unreal pasture correct. Breaching Skewer is also an option.
cerulean frigate
my favorite part of thanatos showing up in asphodel is having an entire wave of enemies suicide jump into his aoe
true fable
for rama in terms of playstyle are you mostly dash striking when you use primary attack
true fable
this wep is fun i need to get used to it
i got the chaos boon where enemies throw inferno bombs at you
brisk shadow
i like Rama's special with doom's curse, then normal heavy attack boost with crit.
mossy zinc
12:06.23 4-sack. 
mossy zinc
Me?
mossy zinc
I'm guessing any attack can.
true fable
yeah
mossy zinc
@daring hedge congratulations on 55! 
daring hedge
but special isn't attack 
mossy zinc
🎆
daring hedge
thank you!
edgy arrow
55? i can’t even count that high
mossy zinc
The #1 Hades player correcting me. I'm honored.
true fable
im confused about how this wep works should i be trying to special a different target each time and then use primary once i have a few tagged?
daring hedge
yes, try to apply shared suffering to as many things as you can within a reasonable amount of time before attacking
if there's like, one enemy by itself on the other side of the room, then it's fine and you can get it afterward
you can kinda feel it out
true fable
for sure
daring hedge
thank you!
slow jetty
i was wondering why you prefer rama over chiron
i think i got my answer throughout the video but still wondering about your opinion
some fights im not even sure are half possible without shared suffering
daring hedge
haha, yeah a lot of it comes down to the ease of use when it comes to applying shared suffering, since it's quick and just an innate feature of the weapon. and one part about the weapon that can be considered a downside (the longer charge time) actually doesn't get in the way too much once you're used to it. power shots are very worth the time they take to charge, especially after 1.0
i just really enjoy how rama feels to play now
daring hedge
even so, shared suffering is free extra damage on single target
slow jetty
yeah i know but the hardest part of the run is hades pretty much
daring hedge
it's very versatile
sly field
@daring hedge im currently trying 51/52 heat but i heard you set a record
slow jetty
(isnt it?)
sly field
currently ive been doing 51/52 heat runs
daring hedge
@sly field yeah, my 55 seems to be the WR now
sly field
nice
thats insane dude
i got close on 51 heat and 52 heat alternating between the bow and the gun
daring hedge
very nice, and good luck, 50+ is huge
sly field
with the bow i got to elysium a couple but that was chirons, witht eh gun eris i got to hades a couple
yeah
daring hedge
it's always really nice to see more people playing around there
sly field
my cleared heat is 40 tho
yeah and not many people oin
on twitch that are low stream high heats
or havnt even beaten 32
there was one guy i kinda went back and forth with and he said aight dude after 40 imma stop competeing 😛
also for the longest time i thought i was one of the better ones
turns out im just getting started >>
also communities especially those set in speedrun ones frighten the hell out of me
daring hedge
you still are one of the better players if you can clear 40, not many players even attempt that
such a small percentage ever go beyond 32
true fable
lol meanwhile me, gated at 32
sly field
your not gated
true fable
this might be a stupid q but
sly field
there are no stupid questions
daring hedge
you'll get there, i was stuck at 32 back in the day all the same lol
sly field
but go ahead
true fable
how do you set up the charge shot on rama without getting stunned
random bough
@daring hedge nicely done
daring hedge
thank you!
true fable
feels like whenever i get a good position off i get hit out of it
sly field
you pre-plan @true fable
true fable
specially with these little rat nerds in styx
sly field
you wanna map it out in your head where you want to go
daring hedge
with rama you kind of have to anticipate what the enemy can do before you commit
sly field
and where you want to go next
^
exactly what tailesque said
with the bow in general
random bough
The reason I hesitate to go 45-50 is being kind of forced to use RI and AP
sly field
you need to anticipate
thats all fine @random bough
you can routine till -6 and still feel comfortable
daring hedge
a big chunk of rama power shots come from anticipating and reacting to enemy moves that leave them open
sly field
basically you're playing live chess with bow
yeah fair sometimes some people dont have the feel for a certain weapon
true fable
i feel like i usually just rely on out dpsing which probably doesnt work for bow or for other weps on higher heas
heats
sly field
or sometimes people are just a shield boy or a fist boy
true fable
but holy moly rama is fun
true fable
thats the fastest ive ever killed tiny vermin
slow jetty
im happy to see the exact aspect and weapon i seem to enjoy exclusively in this game are pretty much as lategame viable as possible 😄
daring hedge
yeah, rama's damage is huge but it comes in bursts, and you don't want to get too greedy with it
sly field
also with rama's special
you can just focus a bigger threat down first
since that shared damage is nice if you have a big beeft boy you can constantly hit
daring hedge
definitely, i think shared suffering is one of the most powerful aspect-specific perks out there
alongside eris of course
sly field
@daring hedge at 55 you have like allmost no mirror right?
daring hedge
half of my mirror with RI2
true fable
can the green number be crit?
random bough
Dio special does a surprising amount of damage actually
mossy zinc
Hmm. My zag bow bad RNG runs are as fast as my Chiron good RNG runs.
daring hedge
splitting headache is actually really good on a deadly strike + drunken flourish rama
sly field
DoT's in this game are really good tho
true fable
so if i crit have shared suffering on a bunch
and i crit
do they all take big number dmg
daring hedge
the shared suffering takes into account the increased crit damage yeah
true fable
thats amazing
slow jetty
@daring hedge what are the "dream" boons im looking for with rama specifically?
I know you want attack/crit on attack, hangover on special (?) and reflect on dash?
daring hedge
it's just straight up 60% of the damage done
slow jetty
anything else?
sly field
zeus on special or poseidon on special is good too
daring hedge
there's several that work on special, mostly for doing decent damage or taking out DC hearts
cerulean frigate
the thing about zag bow is most runs you aren't using special for the majority of your output
daring hedge
dio, ares, and zeus are the main ones because of flat extra damage
sly field
but funny and weirdly enough i won both my higher heats with demeter on special >>
cerulean frigate
as strong as chiron is the bow special is still kind of slow
sly field
zag's bow is a but underwhelming imho
daring hedge
demeter can work too for the slow, the special is very flexible except with things like artemis
slow jetty
@daring hedge favorite / best cast?
cerulean frigate
i would call it boring but not underwhelming
sly field
athena has the best cast
cerulean frigate
crits are very good and bow attack power shot hits pretty hard
daring hedge
@slow jetty i usually don't focus on casts almost at all with rama, i might not be the best person to ask haha
sly field
aphrodite was good before it god nerfed
slow jetty
alright alright
daring hedge
and hunter dash is great for rama as well; i just take divine in the higher heats because of its safety
especially for EM4 superdad
sly field
there's not many casts that i think are good tho @daring hedge
i think dio/athena/zeus/poseidon casts are all OK with athena being OK+
what about calls @daring hedge
i have beaten dad with his own call a couple of times
mossy zinc
Any cast that lodges is good enough.
sly field
the funniest dialouge ever LOL
daring hedge
poseidon, athena, dio are the first that come to mind in terms of calls i almost always want
cerulean frigate
dio call is so much damage
daring hedge
and yeah, what nyaa said for many runs
sly field
or if i happend to get none i go hades
sly field
i do not value dio enough it seems
mossy zinc
Crystal Beam is worse than base cast lol.
cerulean frigate
it definitely does not hold up to Heat
daring hedge
it's good when: AP1 makes you choose between it and nourished soul, so you choose beam to sell for UC
sly field
i've been scrwd over too many times with the aphro demeter duo
that one is just all-bad
daring hedge
parting shot is just money to me most of the time
i don't do cast builds enough lol
sly field
parting shot only really works with a strong cast like dio/pos/athena
cerulean frigate
i like the backstab damage
foggy ruin
I just finished a meme run with Cold Embrace Talos with Parting Shot
trim sigil
Smaller exposed really is disappointing at times
foggy ruin
Cold Embrace actually did some work, still pretty bad overall
daring hedge
cold embrace is one of those boons where i love the idea, but it's mostly underwhelming in practice
sly field
worst cast duo is deffinetyl ares / poseidon
mossy zinc
Dionysus' Aid and Zeus' Aid are the best DPS calls and very similar in how they work. Zeus' Aid has higher damage, but Dionysus' Aid has better AOE, so it tends to win in DPS. You'll want to use Lesser Calls with Dionysus' Aid to maximize the damage.
trim sigil
Speaking of cold embrace, I also did a Cold Embrace Zag Flurry blade 
granted, beams were lowkey bad
daring hedge
zeus aid also has the added benefit of scaling extremely well with his T2s, in terms of damage
mossy zinc
Curse of Drowning can be amazing on melee.
cerulean frigate
i think the beam should pierce enemies at the very least
sly field
yeah but i wouldnt dare to run melee on a 50 heat run lol
mossy zinc
A? What's better than those two?
sly field
aphrodite is a nuke, so i usually go for that poseidon is consistent damage and a shield
trim sigil
The only I can expect is Athena ngl
sly field
so those 2 are allready better
foggy ruin
Speaking of Curse of Drowning, I'm going to try it again with Talos or Achilles. I remember getting it bonked hard by the nerf hammer
mossy zinc
Any call has i-frames on activation.
sly field
artemist can over shoot the damage aphrodite's call can do cuz all her arrows can crit
daring hedge
talos and curse of drowning is a great combination
sly field
true
daring hedge
they just synergize so effortlessly
sly field
but for bow its trash LUL
daring hedge
pretty much
mossy zinc
Artemis' Aid average damage is way lower than Dionysus' Aid or Zeus' Aid.
daring hedge
unless you do triple shot point blanks 
cerulean frigate
ive only seen curse of drowning offered once and i was playing a rama run
sly field
@mossy zinc but the crit is above 1k so if your 6 or 8 bolts? all hit for 1k you just did 6k damage
thats like almost 3 times the max gauge damage on aphro's call
i used it a couple of times vs hades and it just melts him
also it's a faster charge
trim sigil
Except crit chance is 35% so for 1 6-8 crits call you would get 3 2- crits
cerulean frigate
the thing about Artemis call is that the lesser call does basically nothing for you in room fights
sly field
i would say im allways thinking about my endgame strat in hades
i allways wanna pick up armor shred before i hit elyisum
and if i can get a good call early ill stick with that
daring hedge
artemis call is pretty much by far the worst lesser. at least ares lesser gives you panic button invuln
sly field
artemis her call is quick ti charge tho
trim sigil
5 shots on arty cost the same as 4 on other calls
daring hedge
it's okay for iframes
mossy zinc
Greater Call is 10 arrows, and they don't hit for 1k lol. 3 * 120 at Epic is 360.
sly field
atleast when i was fighting hades and theseus i think i used it allmost 3 times in one fight
@hushed narwhal yeah but they do hit for 1k if you have more crit
mossy zinc
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gm04kroX-p7lMNSmNcFdKCw4mmff-5i83QsKVwOBNDA/edit?usp=sharing
sly field
normally when artemis shows up i allways pick up a pp
ad then i try to aim for either a hide breaker or a clean kill
to stack up on that crat
crit*
mossy zinc
Pressure Points doesn't do all that much. Common is effectively +6% global damage.
cerulean frigate
even if you have clean kill + heart rend with an upgraded epic artemis call you're not going to be reliably hitting 1k crit arrows
and if you're at the point you have all that you don't need the call anyway
sly field
pressure points is not about the %s for me tho
it's about the effect
lvling it up ads like 1% so it's literally just picked for the effect that all your damage crits
mossy zinc
360 * 1.5 with Heart Rend is still only 540.
sly field
well i have vod where i fought hades and the arrows litterally critted for 1k and then some
true fable
what if i just like it when artemis shows up on my screen for greater call
trim sigil
Well, lets suppose there also is Eris rail and 25% ff, there goes 1k crit
Except at this point aphro will do 5k nuke
sly field
i think i was running eris.. might also have been chiron not sure gotta rewatch the vod
cerulean frigate
ok but you know what's cool about eris is that it makes zues and dio call hit even harder too
sly field
aphro's call is amazing in my eyes tho
trim sigil
Indeed
mossy zinc
If you put poms on Dionysus' Aid or Zeus' Aid, they will also do more damage. Putting things on the calls that do more damage will do more than putting poms on the call that does less damage.
sly field
smouldering air you cant nuke people tho
mossy zinc
Artemis' Aid can do a lot of work with backstab and a bunch of t2 etc., but that requires a lot of work. Dionysus' Aid if you slap it on just works. No effort required.
sly field
if you have a call build and zeus or dio with smoldering that's amazing
cerulean frigate
im mostly curious if hades' aid has seen any meaningful use at 35+ heat
sly field
so how much of demeters kit is just bad?
like the chill stuff is good
but cast call and some of those nourished soul stuff seems pretty bad
cerulean frigate
laser bad healing stuff irrelevant with lc4
daring hedge
i actually like her T2s and winter harvest
sly field
yeah healing stuff is hella not worth it for me
winter harvest is greatr
rare crop is good too
true fable
is it viable to go for dio just for call and bad influence
sly field
i think so
daring hedge
sure
cerulean frigate
is peer pressure even worth taking? it's sort of hard to evaluate how much it actually does in a fight for me
mossy zinc
Lesser Call is the only one that has any real value in regular encounters, and you're entering way more regular encounters than boss fights. Dionysus' Aid and Zeus' Aid also clear DC2 like nothing there. With 7 pulses on Dionysus' Aid, you can, in fact, clear all DC hearts and still get the full damage from all 5 stacks.
foggy ruin
could have great synergy with bad influence
sly field
@cerulean frigate peer pressure just gives it a contagious effect right/
i feel like if you have trouble with mobs or run stuff like BP2 peer pressure can be great
to deal with those spawn hordes
foggy ruin
I honestly can't remember the last time I picked bad influence because I wanted it aside from prophecy lol
cerulean frigate
yeah but i have no real sense of how close "nearby" has to be, how many ticks it applies, how fast it spreads, etc
daring hedge
peer pressure is pretty terrible
sly field
^
daring hedge
four seconds to spread one mediocre hangover stack
mossy zinc
Peer Pressure is a "the other options are worse and I don't want to spend rerolls" pick.
sly field
^^
cerulean frigate
cool
sly field
i got a high heat question
trim sigil
It's a "man, I really should pick it up for prophecy someday"
sly field
is strong drink still worth it when it heals for 0% but you still get the buff?
random bough
Peer Pressure is a "the other options are worse and I don't want to spend rerolls" pick.
So AP2
daring hedge
depends
mossy zinc
Yes, Strong Drink is fine if you get it early.
sly field
i keep getting myself into situations
cerulean frigate
AP is just an actively unfun way to play the game imo
daring hedge
if you don't have a call and dio aid is also offered? probably take the aid
sly field
where strong drink is offerd but im running on 51 heat
mossy zinc
Def Aid, yeah.
daring hedge
if it's like, positive outlook or strong drink? 100% strong drink
sly field
yeah thought so
so what god is the most useless in your opinion
for me it has to be demeter
trim sigil
Imagine if instead of locking other options, AP2 transformed them in onions
sly field
and then after demeter probably ares
cerulean frigate
athena is a glorified dash boon god for the most part
sly field
ATHENA is the dash boon imho
random bough
Athena is good on everything
trim sigil
Demeter and ares are wack indeed, although depends on build
true fable
Hades
mossy zinc
Can't be Lord Ares when Curse of Agony is the best DPS boon on Malphon and ME exists.
random bough
Poseidon is good on nothing the fewest options I think
true fable
wait actually hades is probably better than demeter for keepsake alone
sly field
poseidon is instantly useable and gets better over time tho
trim sigil
Meh, he has a fair share of room clean options
cerulean frigate
as bad as it is the super soaker build is fun
sly field
knock-back is really good
cerulean frigate
tempest strike on lucifer
loud coral
Usually I just take Hydraulic Might and Ocean’s Bounty, otherwise I don’t like taking Poseidon
random bough
Call and cast are alright
trim sigil
I defintely snag his cast and aid and dash (if I don't need athena's)
true fable
splash dash is big
mossy zinc
Tidal Dash is good. Poseidon's Aid is good. Tempest Flourish is decent.
Boiling Point is nice.
cerulean frigate
i like tidal dash on bow/rail
sly field
you just instantly break him with either breaking wave or razor shouls
cerulean frigate
actively hate it on melee weapons
sly field
i mean on melee i get it
mossy zinc
Tempest Strike is trash.
sly field
since you slap em away
mossy zinc
F tier easily.
sly field
yeah
loud coral
It really does come down to preference at the end of the day, Poseidon’s really good if you manage to use his boons well
random bough
A tier with sea storm though
sly field
tempest strike is probably the worst
cerulean frigate
tempest strike has terrible damage and offers almost 0 knockback on most of the weapons
loud coral
Yeah Tempest Strike is worse than no boon unless you’re running bow
daring hedge
hydraulic might is pretty good too. i used to dismiss it back when it was 5 seconds, but 10 is solid
true fable
i could be talking from inexperience but i feel like dem gets the most invalidated from PoP
sly field
i really dont understand how people miss what breaking wave does
it makes it so you dont need walls to activate the effect anymore
true fable
oh man breaking wave is nice
sly field
since it also now works on hitting enemies into enemies
mossy zinc
The base modifier on Tempest Strike is so low that any rarity or pom upgrade is an utter waste. Such terrible scaling.
sly field
@mossy zinc do you put poms on PP i dont
true fable
@mossy zinc where do you see all this raw data stuff
sly field
i think that scaling isnt worth it either
true fable
in terms of base mod values and stuff like that
sly field
i think she has spreadsheets
mossy zinc
Base modifier is common Lv.1.
sly field
she just shared a call sheet of damage and scaling etc
mossy zinc
I do.
mossy zinc
I also have the she/her role, so that's a good guess.
cerulean frigate
you don't have to assume a lot of the time because there are pronoun roles for this server
true fable
did you lab all the values or datamine
loud coral
Hydraulic Might is a really solid boon though, ok in boss fights but insane in areas like Styx and Tartarus
mossy zinc
Just research.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1P6oZ6i8zmY6s7PM_AkX_g6bjZ601iP_xi9CxzEpujJ4/edit?usp=sharing
cerulean frigate
hydraulic might is a lot of damage and 10 seconds is a long time in a game like this tbh
true fable
this is beautiful thank you
sly field
or 20%
true fable
40% at epic
mossy zinc
Need to fix a couple numbers, though, whenever I get around to it, but most of it should be correct.
sly field
40% is decent tho
true fable
this spreadsheet explains why you like aphro so much lol
cerulean frigate
idk why the aphro mods are so high tbh
loud coral
Wow, it takes 6 poms just to get Tempest Strike over 100%? That’s garbage
mossy zinc
Love can hurt. 
cerulean frigate
weak is 30% damage reduction on the enemy at least, that's pretty decent
mossy zinc
Weak is easily the best status curse in the game.
loud coral
You know I used to think Aphro was the worst god in the game, then I found out how percentages and scaling works
true fable
why is mean attack % different for coronacht vs others
cerulean frigate
and it combos pretty naturally with a lot of stuff
true fable
ah the bonus crit % im assuming?
sly field
aphro is easy priv status too
loud coral
Aphro works with any build really. She’s an easy PS, gives insane damage buffs, and is just overall pretty good
cerulean frigate
i've been converted to the family favorite gang
mossy zinc
Sweet Surrender is great.
cerulean frigate
consistency is just nice
true fable
i have also been converted to family favorite gang
although im torn for something like ME
mossy zinc
Yeah, I don't care too much for Privileged Status, personally. It's rare that I ever pick that.
true fable
jsut because exposed is such an easy status
but i guess it does require at minimum 3 athena boons
to make sense
cerulean frigate
I mean. ME is so strong that you don't even need priv bonus
loud coral
Personally I think her legendary is meh, it’s probably really solid but it just doesn’t feel as potent as other legendaries like Black Out or Winter Harvest
mossy zinc
@true fable 4.
mossy zinc
Divine Flourish, Divine Dash, Merciful End, Blinding Flash.
sly field
ok
cerulean frigate
divine dash isn't a valid prerequisite anymore either
cerulean frigate
merciful end
mossy zinc
Merciful End.
loud coral
Merciful End, insane with something like fists
cerulean frigate
doom vs ME doom output is like that you vs the guy she tells you not to worry about meme
cerulean frigate
it's actually insane
loud coral
It’s basically one doom burst per hit if you’re dashing enough
sly field
malphon i usually go demeter
i once went a full dodge build
with zag's aspect + RR and Lambent plume
that was kinda really funny 😛
true fable
its insane how quick you can burst enemies with ares attack and divine dash
sly field
then i hear talos slaps the hardestr
foggy ruin
member when zag fists had attack speed? i member
sly field
same
true fable
i havent tried a full dodge build but that sounds fun
sly field
i've been here since ea
foggy ruin
FeelsBadMan
sly field
but i left the discord pretty quick
cerulean frigate
i had a talos run earlier with 40% attack speed bonus from hermes
that was a lot of fun
sly field
me being a ranged boye i never go for fists much
it's either bow or gun
and trying to push myself trough 50+ heats
mossy zinc
ME is the best build on Malphon by far. There's no real question about that. Especially after they nerfed my build so hard while ME got a slap on the wrist lol.
true fable
parting shot? you mean 430 coins?
mossy zinc
Parting Shot is great.
cerulean frigate
im really struggling to manage TD3
sly field
i have a fit between jury summons calistenics BP and TD
loud coral
Actually, Parting Shot and Hunting Blades might be a good build. Not entirely sure though.
sly field
those are the ones i have off the most
edgy arrow
can hunting blades backstab?
edgy arrow
if so, when do they backstab
sly field
idk
edgy arrow
yeah not surprised lol
sly field
i guess they really need to revisit that boon
cerulean frigate
it doesn't backstab and neither does trippy shot
sly field
also freezing vortext is also pretty bad
edgy arrow
agreed
loud coral
Guess I’ve been wasting money by using that boon with my Hunting Blades build then lmao
true fable
wait
edgy arrow
it’s stops me from getting hunting blades, so nope
loud coral
Yes
true fable
like you dont have to cast from the back do you?
cerulean frigate
no it also gives 35% bonus backstab damage to everything
mossy zinc
Parting Shot adds all backstab bonus damage as cast damage and gives +25% backstab damage itself.
sly field
but i think it doesnt work as intended?
mossy zinc
That's a free +75% cast damage with Shadow Presence.
sly field
but somehow slicing shot doesnt do backstab damage LUL
true fable
thats insane
cerulean frigate
yeah. parting shot is super good. it's just got one of the worst descriptions in the game
edgy arrow
pressure points is fairly clear
sly field
there's a few oddly worded boons in this game
true fable
i imagine crystal beams are still bad with it
sly field
@mossy zinc what else is confusing then?
edgy arrow
my mind is literally blown rn
sly field
i only found breaking wave to be peoples crux of understanding and pressure points comes up allot too
i usually have to explain what pressure points does
in streams
true fable
i need to do a parting shot build now lol
mossy zinc
Practically everything that has "+X%" is confusing.
edgy arrow
this isn’t fair, i’ve been offered parting shot so many times on cast builds
sly field
LUL
edgy arrow
all that potential damage, lost to time
loud coral
Parting Shot (only w/Shadow Presence) + Achilles + Hunting Blades = 225% damage on 3 Slicing Shots
If each Slicing Shot does 30 damage per hit (0.1 sec) for 4 seconds, that’s 1200 damage per rift, or 3600 with all three. That plus the 225% damage buff means you’re getting like 15,300 damage for every three casts right? That’s busted
sly field
i kinda took FP on 50+ heat to deal with beefier enemies
true fable
i think something nice wouldve been like
sly field
still dotn know if i like SP more
true fable
any bonuses applied to backstab damage are also added to your cast daamge
cerulean frigate
parting shot wording is so confusing that i wonder if supergiant even knows what it does
sly field
^
so how people read it was "your cast deals backstab damage" what they should've read was "your cast gets added backstab bonusses"
edgy arrow
this would all be solved if they just told us what our damage numbers were
sly field
wich is also in the description
so i dont know why half of the hades player base can't read...
edgy arrow
like, how much damage does my cast actually do? who knows, mathematicians maybe
sly field
or it's super giant actively trying to confuse you
mossy zinc
your cast gets added backstab bonuses
"So does this mean my cast can backstab?"
sly field
^
mossy zinc
There's no real perfect solution here, I don't think lol.
sly field
i hear that one so often
loud coral
Meanwhile, you’ve already died to a Satyr while trying to decipher what any of this means
mossy zinc
Nope.
sly field
please i die to the saw blades forgetting i didnt go athena dash
urban grail
People don't understand pressure points? 
sly field
and get instantly yeeted into stuf
mossy zinc
I kill the Satyr while at the same time figuring out what it means.
cerulean frigate
i die more to walking into sawblades in styx than anything
cerulean frigate
i stubbornly refuse to git gud or turn off heightened security
sly field
the "every damage you do now has a crit mod"
@cerulean frigate im never swapping of FO2
true fable
i think they're surprised people are confused about it
since it seems relatively straightforward
mossy zinc
I take damage from the traps in the Temple of Styx because obviously my Dash-Strike will kill before the trap can hit me, and then I'm in the clear.
Obviously. 
sly field
it's the same problem with parting shot only here they are confused about the 2%
they see it as 2% crit
not as 2% chance any damage you do can crit
mossy zinc
There's courage, and then there's whatever I have.
urban grail
No I know what it does, I'm just confused about why some people don't
It's extremely straightforward
true fable
i personally like dashing into one trap, then another
sly field
@urban grail beats me man i just stalk allot of streamers on twitch and they just cant figure it out without me helping them or someone in chat overexplaining
true fable
while trying to get the purifying water
in that one chamber
where the only pools are between two traps
cerulean frigate
the traps that bother me most are the ones in the furies arena. they can trigger AFTER the fight ends for a split second
mossy zinc
Dashing into 150-damage urns to evade a 20-damage skull shockwave is cool.
sly field
i let meg or alector just run themselves into traps
cerulean frigate
there have been lots of times i have finished the fight with a dash strike and i slide onto the trap
true fable
this is why sure footing is actually good
cerulean frigate
oops damage that i shouldn't take
sly field
it's probably only where that well of charon item actually comes into play
mossy zinc
Sure Footing is great.
daring hedge
sure footing nearly makes HS free after getting it, it's very good
sly field
my least favorite area is elyisium
cerulean frigate
sure footing is one of those things that presents itself as terrible but turns out that the math makes it incredible
true fable
i remember the first time i watched my friend play this game he took sure footing over athena dash on the first playthrough
the first and only time i facepalmed at sure footing
every time since it's been gigabrain
sly field
why take less damage when you can negate damage
mossy zinc
The math is "woops I'm dead" vs "oh wow that did basically nothing, huh, glad I picked up Sure Footing".
sly field
i really hate that the bowmen in Ely dont have a missle
they have black stripes they fire
cerulean frigate
i need to do a frame by frame analysis of the hitbox on the urns though i swear
cerulean frigate
i've had a couple of instances of getting hit by them even after the effect has faded completely
sly field
the urns are a bit ... i guess the damage does a ripple effect
mossy zinc
I don't really mind DC2 Savior Numbskulls anymore.
daring hedge
i hate that the bowmen are registered as a high count, low threat foe so the game can throw like 6 of them with BP2 at you at one time
sly field
since i've been hit dead on the edge but also stood like in it with one foot and that didnt hurt
@daring hedge bowmen are the worst same with shield boys
but with support fire shield boys are deffinetly no longer a big threat
mossy zinc
Greatshields have a high difficulty rating, though.
cerulean frigate
you mean there's something wrong with 6 armored bp2 bowmen shooting at you 3 times a piece?
sly field
but bowmen are so fast and it's a problem
cerulean frigate
daring hedge
i remember when i used to hate longspears, and now i love getting waves of them because of how easily you can kite and cc them
sly field
at 40% speed ? @cerulean frigate yes
longspears are the best
so are the flame wheels
i love getting a room with flame wheels / soul catchers
cerulean frigate
ever since they made longspears not just sit and spam forever they have been pretty easy
urban grail
Flame wheels are both the best and the worst
cerulean frigate
you can actually kill them with melee now
sly field
^
true fable
i feel like i still need to get used to their animations
sly field
fist special keeps you at a distance too
true fable
still get like chunked by like 30 damage each time
sly field
oof
true fable
theyve ended many a run for me
sly field
i got ran over by the bigger ones tho
mossy zinc
Anything in Elysium that is not Elite Chariots is good.
sly field
because BP2 was like how about more speed? and teleports instantly behind you?
cerulean frigate
oops all bp2 elite chariots
true fable
im personally not a fan of the teleporting cloning flame wheels but theyre an annoyance at worst
daring hedge
oops sorry it seems you're using fists without breaching cross, have some slugger+something else elite chariots to take you home
sly field
shielding cloning ones tho
now thats a problem
oof armor shred is sucha must in elyisium
elysium?
Elisium?
i can't spell guys
mossy zinc
I had Skelly at 52 Heat specifically for Hades's summons, but he died in ~1.5 seconds to a Super Elite Chariot lol.
daring hedge
second one
cerulean frigate
I mean, the skelly summon only has 250 HP
true fable
sad skelly is not made for the heat of combat
sly field
thanatos is deffinetly too slow
mossy zinc
I always run Antos now.
mossy zinc
3k > 2.5k
daring hedge
i've been getting flak for running antos lately lol
sly field
oh right it's 2 right?
daring hedge
i like it
sly field
thats pretty good
cerulean frigate
imo the skelly summon is nice for when you are first learning the middle management elite fights
sly field
how instant is it?
cerulean frigate
and then you never equip it again
sly field
i havnt tried antos out yet
mossy zinc
A bit slower than Meg, but quick enough.
daring hedge
first hit is pretty instant, second after a full second
and they don't miss
which is nice
mossy zinc
They can miss lol.
mossy zinc
It's very rare for them to miss, though.
sly field
before i went like 50+ my go to was shady
sly field
shady was really good
cerulean frigate
fr though i struggle more with phase 1 of EM4 hades than the other 2 phases just because aim snapping to all the doomstone stuff is tilting AF
sly field
untill i no longer could use the heal darkness and money
i might try out antos
hmm doomstone is what i want out of em4 hades
i had run where he spawned a sneak, and then 6 sneaks
daring hedge
doomstone is the best summon though
sly field
i WAS so DEAD
daring hedge
soul catcher and sneak are awful
cerulean frigate
it is
sly field
SNEAK is the worst
true fable
sneak is the soul ender
sly field
40% attack speed 6 sneaks and em4 40% hadea
cerulean frigate
but it's still just not very well thought out imo
daring hedge
gorgon is pretty mild too
daring hedge
skullcrusher is weirdly rare for me
cerulean frigate
there's a difference between making something challenging and making something actively unplayable
edgy arrow
FO2 EM4 is a bit of a wall for me
sly field
@edgy arrow try running only those
and just keep doing it untill you adapt
then start adding more mods
thats how i did it
urban grail
With the flame wheels just dash through walls
sly field
and im able to atleast run 50+ heat now
edgy arrow
yeah i fluked a win once using just those
cerulean frigate
i can't do fo2 at all reasonably
sly field
i cant do BP2
cerulean frigate
i dont feel fo1 much for the majority of fights
sly field
cuz BP2 i allways get the worst rolls
mossy zinc
@daring hedge I think the first hit you can only whiff if it's like Megagorgon teleporting away at just that moment, but the second I've seen whiff sometimes in other circumstances. Maybe he was just trying to hit something that was already dead. 
edgy arrow
yeah i need to drop down to 16 and drill it until i can do it consistently ig
true fable
i basically only do EM4 FO2 but now feel like im limping into the hades fight with other mods on 32
sly field
i rather run with a -12 RI then BP2
daring hedge
@mossy zinc ah yeah, i can definitely see that happening
trim sigil
It's a bit sad that EM2 and EM3 provide the worthy alternatives to end fights faster while making them harder, when EM4 is just maximum endurance with bonus miniboss slot machine
sly field
but it's 3k damage just delayed right? @mossy zinc
cerulean frigate
honestly though who thought the speedy mod for BP was a good idea in conjunction with FO
daring hedge
i rather run with a -12 RI then BP2
wait for real?
daring hedge
RI4 is perhaps the most hardcore thing to do at high heat lol
sly field
@daring hedge yes i do not like BP in general
edgy arrow
BP2 isn’t that bad lol
daring hedge
yeah i don't think it's that bad
sly field
and i saw like kane do it with no mirror on 56/7 heaT?
so i thought well thats atleast doabvle
mossy zinc
3k in total, yes. You can also hit multiple enemies with both hits if they're on top of each other.
daring hedge
and the icons that denote their perks are helpful in assessing how to deal with them
mossy zinc
I've gotten better at doing that on Theseus and Asterius.
sly field
yeah but usually i also have TD on and that just makes me wanna speed trough fights
edgy arrow
and BP is just fun in general imo
sly field
i might go back to bp now that im gonna swap to rama bow
edgy arrow
you never know what’s going to kill you turn up
sly field
since chiron hasnt been doing me allot of favors recently
cerulean frigate
BP is one of the better done heat options overall
sly field
i personally want to beat hades on em4 on 50+ heat
makes it more rewarding
since i dont need to set a record anymore >>
true fable
i like all mm except for the megagorgon fight
cerulean frigate
meaningfully more difficult rather than something boring or actively turning off game aspects like approval process
mossy zinc
and i saw like kane do it with no mirror on 56/7 heaT?
That run was fully routed and had 3 or 4 Duo Boons with UC CF AP2 lol.
trim sigil
Power couple is aight but you have to have a summon at hand to smash crusher
true fable
it is easy the crusher wave just surprised me the first few times i saw it
trim sigil
And yeah getting a specific setup to obtain Stubborn Roots on RI4 isn't really feasible
sly field
without it he just does what other crushers do
true fable
right im saying the fight just sucked for me in mm
edgy arrow
i mean, yeah, that fight is fine on MM
sly field
fair
edgy arrow
it’s with MM that it can be a problem
mossy zinc
honestly though who thought the speedy mod for BP was a good idea in conjunction with FO
Apparently everyone who does high heat with BP and FO2 lol.
edgy arrow
for me it’s like, am i using a shield? if yes, ezpz
sly field
since the bull turns into sonic on FO2
edgy arrow
if no, we’ll see
mossy zinc
"+90% speed. This is a good idea. I should combine those pacts."
sly field
^
cerulean frigate
i like every bp mod except the speedy one
edgy arrow
good fun honestly
sly field
i hate every bp mod
true fable
since the bull turns into a beyblade on em3
daring hedge
soulcatcher is way preferable for me. the damage that carries over from asterius miniboss to the main fight is negligible if my build is good enough to make it all the way
daring hedge
and soulcatcher is just much faster
sly field
specially the tracking missles one
edgy arrow
you haven’t lived until you’ve fled in panic from +90% speed chariots
trim sigil
I tend to not enjoy linker because lol get sliced
sly field
and the shielded skulls that just keep shielding eachother
mossy zinc
I'd rather see EM Asterius than Soulcatcher, personally.
sly field
@edgy arrow thats what ended my chiron bow run on 51 heat LUL
trim sigil
It's possible to play around (until 2 dracons get it ofc), but its extremely nasty
mossy zinc
The less time I need to spend in EM3, the better.
sly field
EM asterius can be dealt with if you have some good things going for your run
mossy zinc
Solo Asterius is pretty free.
cerulean frigate
dracons are one of the only enemies i would say are straight up BS
sly field
hyper sprint and more dashes are really good for that fight
daring hedge
i guess with the kind of runs i've been having lately, the health that asterius loses from the miniboss is equivalent to one perfect twin shot with one of the shots critting
so i don't really value the reward from fighting him prior a ton
sly field
@cerulean frigate dracons that spawn behind you cuz lul teleporting and are shielded
FUN
mossy zinc
I feel bad about how out of practice I am in all the boss fights though lol.
sly field
@mossy zinc but you ever forget that core mechanics in you tho
mossy zinc
Not playing for 3 months kinda hurts.
sly field
like i played sundered for a while on insanity and got back to hades
i didnt lose much on practice etc
mossy zinc
I mean I do 32 Heat free still.
sly field
i even did dominion on eradicator perk just for funsies
atleast 10+ tries
but man was that fight fun and worth it
all the new crazy patterns he flung at me
i guess i am big on punishing difficult challenges
mossy zinc
That'd be why you're in this channel lol.
cerulean frigate
honestly if you practice playing with FO on most of the time and turn it down 1 you can add a ton of other heat mods and barely feel it
mossy zinc
FO0 is pretty free at any heat.
cerulean frigate
it's combining FO with everything else to push the heat into the high 30s that i am struggling with
sly field
that spear is gonna be an instant YEET tho
cerulean frigate
because i really do not want to play with AP and TD3
daring hedge
non-EM4 hades is harder without FO2 than with for me lol
mossy zinc
You don't need FO at all sub 40.
daring hedge
his spins take way too long!
sly field
i got yoted pretty hard in the face a couple because the reaction time is like 0.025s
true fable
i hate using both dodges because im used to FO2 hades
and then getting hit by regular hades
LOL
his spin feels SOOOO much slower
sly field
his spins used to be an issue now he does 2 in a row and i just get the hell out of dodge
or dash with athena into him
regular hades his wind up time
is so gosh darn slow
cerulean frigate
im still not used to the em4 fight pacing in general
sly field
it makes asterius his spin look faster
cerulean frigate
the 2nd spin hits me too often
sly field
you just need to anticipate it more
daring hedge
the EM4 double spin is mostly just a mindfulness thing
daring hedge
you do it enough and you're always ready for it
true fable
the spear yeet gets me every time
sly field
luckly i havnt done myself to death on EA hades
daring hedge
100 damage with HL5
sly field
didnt ou say you can block the spear yeet? @daring hedge
true fable
guaranteed only to get hit by that after getting hit by boiling blood for that fun insta death
daring hedge
yeah, attacks, specials, repulse shot can repel the spear in flight
sly field
hahaha... fun
daring hedge
and make it stop right in front of you
cerulean frigate
i take spear repels as happy accidents rather than something i try to intentionally do
sly field
just gives him his spear back LUL
mossy zinc
"You" was correct.
daring hedge
deflecting the spear toss is one of the funniest things in the game to me honestly
like, it goes all the way backwards and dad just awkwardly flies towards it anyways
true fable
do you do it intentionally
sly field
funny how i take it out on demeter and yet she's the reason i won both 32 and 40 heat
cerulean frigate
My favorite is using the hades call in the hades fight
the little details like that in this game are great
true fable
"father" "im right here"
mossy zinc
I like stopping EM FO2 Asterius with a punch.
cerulean frigate
I also like how chaos asks you to take his egg to the fight for a prophecy
sly field
im right here boy"
also can we have a hades / kratos "boy"-off?
i am quite sure hades said boy allmost as much as the entire god of war script did
daring hedge
do you do it intentionally
@true fable definitely not but i definitely look like i am doing it intentionally when it happens, which is cool
mossy zinc
Asterius should honestly just be one-shot from that humiliation.
cerulean frigate
how tough do Erebus gates for Asphodel and Elysium tend to be
i've only really done the Tartarus ones
sly field
@daring hedge doing things accidentally on purpose is thigth
uhh i dont mind them @cerulean frigate they are usually worth it
like the centaur hearts are 50 instead of 25
daring hedge
elysium gates are rarely worth the risk, aspho and tartarus are fine though
sly field
^
sly field
elysium is the worst region to do extra stuff in
daring hedge
elysium gates can just give you superelite chariot and gorgon at the same time
cerulean frigate
incredible
true fable
welp i wasnt going for it but i got lightning phalanx all the same
sly field
nice
lightning phanalx is just the bestr
those bounces do allot
- phanlanx shot has some insane scaling
mossy zinc
Imagine you're Asterius, you get all that fancy armor + FO2 speed + HL5 damage, and you charge at the "short one", and he just stops you with a punch without a scratch, and you take damage for it.
I'd just go home.
sly field
like it starts at 80 base damage
cerulean frigate
imagine you're Asterius and your only friend is Thesues
sly field
@mossy zinc em3 makes theseus so much easier
mossy zinc
Lightning Phalanx sucks.
daring hedge
the little pseudo-cutscene that happens when he reaches the hp threshold except he does it as soon as you deflect punch him
just leaves
mossy zinc
Worst part is losing the acceleration from regular Phalanx Shot.
cerulean frigate
lightning phalanx is like, hey, you know all these cool things about phalanx shot? let's disable them or make them harder to do
true fable
wait what does it change
cerulean frigate
it doens't even add lightning damage for jolted
true fable
im confuse
mossy zinc
Lightning Phalanx doesn't add damage.
cerulean frigate
at least it isn't as bad a duo as the demeter + ares one
sly field
it just bounced between targets against hades thats pretty good tho
cerulean frigate
mossy zinc
It does more damage only because it bounces.
sly field
^
cerulean frigate
I'd rather have phalanx shot reliably imbed for boiling blood
sly field
because it also bounces on his dumb casts
mossy zinc
at least it isn't as bad
a duoastheLady Demeter
sly field
i think my mirror is not using boiling since it's deactivated
oof
lady demeter.. can we ask supergiant to idk.. revisist most of her awkward boons
true fable
@cerulean frigate i like the room clear potential and bounce damage over the extra boiling blood stuff but im also not playing on that high of a heat rn
mossy zinc
Her boons are decent until you add AP UC LC4 etc.
sly field
specially stuff like Ravenous will, and the one that inflicts chill if you launch a cast
^
mossy zinc
Ravenous Will is great.
cerulean frigate
more than any other god
and the damage you get from the attack/special is not that high
mossy zinc
Attack is alright, Special is weak.
sly field
it's funny when people say like how do you not like healing for more? and my response is allways YOU think i can heal LUL
the special is okay on bow special tho
cerulean frigate
she's got some cool stuff to pick up like ravenous will but still