32 heat isn't a sufficient qualifier. What are you tiering on?
Safety? Speed? Consistency without seeding? Reliance on hammers? Bossing? AoE?
#h1-high-heat-strategies
bronze viper
daring hedge
like, i came in ten minutes after a tier list was posted, and i just didn't scroll up to see it until like a minute ago. sorry i guess
but i'm also not a huge fan of a tier list in this context, but that's somewhat of a tangent
bronze viper
I'm not singling you out for making the list lol, this is a flaw with all tier lists, but people take them so seriously when they read them that it's worth ironing out the rules ahead of time for what is and isn't considered
wild dove
Yeah tier lists are almost fruitless effort imo... It depends on so many things including player knowledge, playstyle, and arbitrary criteria weighting without even considering complex game mechanics... Of which there are plenty in Hades
lost otter
I'm not singling you out for making the list lol, this is a flaw with all tier lists, but people take them so seriously when they read them that it's worth ironing out the rules ahead of time for what is and isn't considered
@bronze viper fully agree with this.
wild dove
They make a lot more sense in the context of a meta in pvp games, but I don't see much value in single player games
somber rose
I'm not singling you out for making the list lol, this is a flaw with all tier lists, but people take them so seriously when they read them that it's worth ironing out the rules ahead of time for what is and isn't considered
@bronze viper I just made this for "fun" when rethinking about which aspects were the hardest for me to clear 32h with and why
bronze viper
For instance, the contention behind Zag Sword and Lucifer Aspect. Both are fine, and can do 32 more or less without complications. But there are nearly strictly better version of both of them, so from an optimization standpoint, what reason would you have to ever use them?
Are they A-tier or F?
lost otter
Im stil even on 40 heat dont take timer limit. and for me Hestia D tier. claws B. Eris S.Demeter fist S.talos D.Beo D
somber rose
For instance, the contention behind Zag Sword and Lucifer Aspect. Both are fine, and can do 32 more or less without complications. But there are nearly strictly better version of both of them, so from an optimization standpoint, what reason would you have to ever use them?
Are they A-tier or F?
@bronze viper With Zag sword specifically you have to get in and play risky, without any good reward. That was the main hardship with it for me. With Lucifer you play hit and run but barely tickle the enemies.
bronze viper
Nah, but I meant that their playstyles are so similar to Nemesis and Eris but just worse, that there really isn't a reason to play them if succeeding at the 32 is your primary intent.
And yet by themselves they can do 32 respectably fine
It's not a question that has a real answer, but it's one of the problems with lists lol.
lost otter
becaus Beo need specific boons and hammer ups. Demeter fist can go almost with ANY build. realy. Talos in same line with demeter?and dont overshadowed?
yup. List its preference.
chrome bramble
i mean isnt it staight forward tho? where is the problem with that. if they can do 32 heat fine but others do better then wouldnt that make the others just higher tier? and if there are weapons that struggle with 32 wouldnt they be lower tier
lost otter
personal preference
somber rose
becaus Beo need specific boons and hammer ups. Demeter fist can go almost with ANY build. realy. Talos in same line with demeter?and dont overshadowed?
@lost otter I said all shields are in S just because of access to bullrush's blocking. I found it to be extremely reliable for doing damage while staying safe, even if you ignore the supposed aspect's unique powers
lost otter
its still preference. for me claws and artur EASY to handle. with out some huge deal. in build.
and with out some insane skill
spiral vector
arthur is just an all around good aspect
chrome bramble
isnt it a bit clunky on higher heats?
daring hedge
zag spear above hades spear, while calling hades either clunky or completely overshadowed is extremely weird to me but, okay
bronze viper
Until mid 30s and higher, Excalibur is just insane
It falls off sooo hard after that though
chrome bramble
you go crit attack with it i assume?
upper glen
I'm still having trouble getting the final aspects, am I right in saying you only need to get level 1 on the aspects on the other weapons?
Or is Achilles just being an arse?
bronze viper
Lmao, on my Switch save it took like 45 runs or something for Achilles to gimme the goods
chrome bramble
you have to spend like 5 blood in other aspects or something and then wait for achilles to talk
upper glen
Well it costs 1 to unlock the 2nd aspect on the list.
Do that across all 6 weapons and that's 6.
spiral vector
1+1+2 does indeed not equal 5
upper glen
somber rose
zag spear above hades spear, while calling hades either clunky or completely overshadowed is extremely weird to me but, okay
@daring hedge Because spinning sucks that's why 😦
daring hedge
it really doesn't but i'm used to hearing that so it's fine
somber rose
much easier for me to spam the extra fast special of zag
at a safe range
also the spin is a not a buff on you like nemesis sword, but a debuff on the enemy
daring hedge
which is not difficult to apply
somber rose
so you kill the regular enemy and then you lost the point of spinning
you gotta spin again
daring hedge
the point is to kill the enemies, and spinning again is not a bad thing?
somber rose
i mean if it was a buff on you, then for 1 spin you could enjoy the buffs vs several enemies
daring hedge
you can still do this because of how punishing sweep is extra large, and radial
somber rose
i know it's large but the speed of charging and releasing the spins while evading stuff in FO2 makes it hard to use for me
daring hedge
i see, well in the context of like, a personal tier list for your own ease of use, it's not like i can argue
but i truly do not think it is clunky
somber rose
you are probably better at playing with Guan Yu as well if you don't have trouble charging spins during combat
daring hedge
nope, the spins move past enemies and bosses, and don't supplement an secondary playstyle
the spins are spins on GY, on hades spins are a boost to whatever else you want to do
if GY was just "if you're good at spinning, use it and not hades" then i would have done 50+ with GY by now, and not hades
somber rose
that's a good point, but still it feels like Hades play thrives on just good basic spear stuff
and the more you try to add constant spin buffs, the harder it is
daring hedge
not sure why that's a bad thing. punishing sweep just makes normal spear play much more viable
at the cost of what, some mini dash spins on waves?
and the debuff lasts ages?
it's not a huge cost
somber rose
hmm I guess but compared to Achilles spear which is very easy to keep yourself buffed while doing the other stuff
daring hedge
again, i personally think it's also very, very easy to keep your damage up with hades aspect if you can weave spins into your playstyle
lost otter
So HOT in there)
bronze viper
Nifty, that was fun to think about. I made a list for 40 Heat to see how much my opinions change as people figure stuff out: https://imgur.com/zi6gai5
This assumes unseeded
timber ruin
surprised by the rama placement, have people been running it on high heat since 1.0?
somber rose
Why demeter fists so much higher than talos?
bronze viper
Because Demeter fist is much better than Talos? I thought that was a pretty common opinion lol. Across every heat
hollow lynx
i'd place pos sword around where achilles is
lower bonus sure, but a very fast way of regaining casts (faster than even hera)
somber rose
What's the reasoning though?
bronze viper
They're unplaced for a reason, can't say from what I've seen.
Demeter has access to a very low-investment delete button every couple of seconds
timber ruin
all the fists play kind of similarly, but demeter gives you a nuke every few seconds
(all the fists except gilgamesh, that is)
bronze viper
Gilgamesh is also in bottom tier for me, around Lucy
somber rose
Demeter has access to a very low-investment delete button every couple of seconds
@bronze viper but it doesn't affect dash upper right?
bronze viper
It does
somber rose
oh
bronze viper
It especially does. Explosive Upper makes it an AoE mini nuke
somber rose
well that's a big deal then
hollow lynx
surprised by the rama placement, have people been running it on high heat since 1.0?
tail has a very nice unseeded 50ht rama run in #self-promotion
daring hedge
i guess i'm one of the only people who's done a high heat zeus shield run with a 45 from a while ago, but i would say it feels... rather low in terms of ease of use, damage, build flexibility etc.
bronze viper
I have a seeded 50 too :3
hollow lynx
it's both a super zag bow and great chiron-like, in one weapon
daring hedge
i could always upload that run, but the gist was generally lots of zeus
somber rose
I thought it only affects the shoryuken which I don't like due to longer recovery compared to dash upper
somber rose
then yeah I can see why it's much better than Talos in this case
timber ruin
i feel like achilles should be top of B or maybe even A- just because i feel like it does something very unique (that's actually good, unlike arthur)
bronze viper
Fwiw I did not try to be objective, that list is very much my opinions and what I've seen. I've only gotten maybe 80% of the aspects to 32, 50% to 40, and like, 5 above 45
timber ruin
like achilles has some straight-up broken potential, it of course struggles from being a spear that doesnt benefit as much from hammers necessarily
but if you compare it to, say, zag shield
somber rose
Fwiw I did not try to be objective
@bronze viper Obviously. It's just to hear other POVs and become more knowledgeable about the game.
bronze viper
(Also fwiw I only regard C as bad tier, B is like, perfectly fine in it's own regard but they rarely feel broken)
timber ruin
it's always very "ehhhh"
i can never realistically see zag shield or zag/talos fists as a contender for setting records
since any build with them can be done better by another aspect or weapon
but achilles has a very unique and powerful angle among spears
bronze viper
Zag Shield with Pulverizing Blow is incredible. It's sooooo medium without it though lol
And that's not a great place to be
timber ruin
i could absolutely see achilles being the weapon of choice for a theoretical super-high heat build
bronze viper
Achilles I will admit I have been spending more time with, and my valuation is increasing with each play. It still kind of feels cheesy and clunky though.
timber ruin
my entire argument isnt predicated around it having unique gameplay necessarily (lucifer and arthur both do that and we know how that goes lmao), more that the things it actually does do well, nothing else does similarly
that said i need to play around with it more post-1.0
i do definitely agree that it can feel clunky, but meh - i feel the same way about nemesis
bronze viper
Nemesis is bottom 5 aspects in terms of game feel for me
It's still amazing. I am a trash fire with it, and it took me the better part of a work week to grind the 40, seeded, with an excellent seed, but yeah.
timber ruin
turning my brain off and ripping through 10 heat by just spamming nemesis is fun but yeah
when you turn up the heat and damage actually starts mattering
it starts feeling very weird
lost otter
If list of 32.i just dont even be try do this category. Becaus with some pack punishment chooses some weapong struglins alote. and with out them realy easy. Like i go in 40 heat with 20+ boons. and i go in 45 with same anmount of boons.with out timer. and my problem only kill hades. And its just what i find. anoters players find another easy ways with they weapons. even in same weapons ppl use all DIFFERENT.tier list not no side fits. too many factors including the main one: HUMAN.
stop arguing about your preferences.
daring hedge
random tangent but from looking at the list of icons, i just noticed that GY uses the sword icon border template instead of what every other spear uses 
GY is a sword confirmed
timber ruin
wow, so you're saying that
bronze viper
Excalibur stole half of its health
timber ruin
sword special is finally good???
somber rose
If list of 32.i just dont even be try do this category. Becaus with some pack punishment chooses some weapong struglins alote. and with out them realy easy. Like i go in 40 heat with 20+ boons. and i go in 45 with same anmount of boons.with out timer. and my problem only kill hades. And its just what i find. anoters players find another easy ways with they weapons. even in same weapons ppl use all DIFFERENT.tier list not no side fits. too many factors including the main one: HUMAN.
stop arguing about your preferences.
@lost otter That's why I said you assume that for each weapon you compile the PoP setup you'll do best with. So you take DC2 for one weapon but not for another. And yes of course it's preference. No one said it's the law of the land. It's just easier to get other people to go in depth on their own reasoning when it's in response to a list they see in front of them.
lost otter
i dont see any reason continue discussion. i have my opinion. you have yours. that all.
bronze viper
That's fair if your intent is to convince, but it's worthwhile to share information for the sake of sharing information too
somber rose
I was never attempting to convince anyone to think like me. I learned some new stuff just from that discussion and that's what matters the most.
lost otter
i share my way in High heat. @bronze viper say some of my chooses can be realy good. i find some from his. and take some from another ppl. and opinion changed.and i happy about its. becaus community share experience. that matter for me. not tier list or borders of tiers.
bronze viper
I was never attempting to convince anyone to think like me. I learned some new stuff just from that discussion and that's what matters the most.
@somber rose Yeah, wasn't saying you were trying to convince, I was saying that your apparent intent was satisfied, we had a discussion.
somber rose
I also wanted some peer review before posting on twitter, which I did get 😛
If I had a way to use dash upper without the maim I'd have an easier time with Gilgamesh. Like if they changed it to "hold the button to inflict maim"
bronze viper
My Switch save is still frozen waiting for the recovery frames from my first Gilga dash upper to end.
daring hedge
@autumn sable do you think i should still submit my unseeded 50 rama to the speedrun hub? that one had the brief video freeze/hitch in tartarus, but audio was fine. i'm just not sure if that would be enough to prevent it from passing submission
autumn sable
that's a good question, i'd submit it anyway and see what they think when they verify it
daring hedge
alright, i'll give it a shot
autumn sable
wouldn't hurt
specially since people are very interested in seeing more 50heat% runs on the speedrun side
let alone, anything not-eris atm
daring hedge
for sure, yeah
and worst case scenario, i have the slower unseededs i could also put up until i get a faster time later at some point
trim sigil
As long as the submission itself isn't outright insulting in terms of how bad of a quality it has, I believe it's better to try and submit stuff like that 
daring hedge
yeah, it's really just that one room that messes up, and like two other second-long freezes in tartarus
doesn't happen in other biomes and the audio is fine
trim sigil
And the ingame timer would also be present to verify no tweaking so
daring hedge
yeah, it's just that because of the screen freezing on a chamber transition frame, it's just black screen and frozen timer until the video catches up
but if someone were to really dig in and want to line it with audio, the timer is where it should be
trim sigil
Oh so it's like trying to split on room transition
But yeah, as long as full audio is present it will easily proof the legitimacy
bronze viper
Oh right I forgot that's a thing. Does speedrun make a distinction between seeding/non seeded?
static plover
yes, there's a sub category for seeded and unseeded
bronze viper
Neat I'll submit next time I'm at my computer.
static plover
Pog
bronze viper
I still think the 50 threshold is ridiculous and feels weird to support it, but lol.
daring hedge
well, did a fresh unseeded 50 and barely missed bablo's eris 50 by seconds, dang https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/654076105321480226/764300579291529216/20201009203706_1.jpg
static plover
congrats 
daring hedge
thanks 
bronze viper
Aspect?
wicked musk
strat: use zagreus shield and abuse the bull rush, go for as much health as possible with a dps call (artemis is best), use Persephone keepsake, 3 dfs, face tank hades while trying to dodge some skills
*ONLY USE ARTEMIS GREATER CALL ON BOSSES
Side Notes: Thanatos is great, having all 5 charges is the best, if not, order of importance goes Elysium Boss -> Asterius/Butterfly Ball Mini Boss -> the boss rooms of Styx -> Lernie
bronze viper
There's a lot to unpack here.
wicked musk
tldr, bull rush imo is the best att in the game, abuse it
bronze viper
Let's start with square one. @trim nebula, what aspect would you like to try for?
daring hedge
nevermind, much better https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/654076105321480226/764310176676577311/20201009211452_1.jpg
daring hedge
i think i got it too late for it to really like, contribute much but i do have a special place in my heart for lightning rod
bronze viper
And if you happen to get Double Strike, Static Discharge or Splitting Bolt, WOO
It contributes the most for me in EM3/Styx/Dad anyway, so it usually works out
daring hedge
this build was too rama-brand chunky for rod to shine amidst the dash-strikes 
bronze viper
It usually ends up pewpewing Theseus continuously while I dodge Asterius, and it sometimes snipes Skulls or summons (I'm not sure if it gets Urns)
It's not good or something I go for, but it's very free lol
daring hedge
oh yeah i love the skull cast utility
bronze viper
Lightning Rod used to be the penance for building Support Fire on Lightning Strike builds, but now it's the gravy
bronze viper
freak accident?
daring hedge
the old art/zeus duo, where crits would also proc bolts 
bronze viper
Wow someone really had some intense Artemis energy in the dev team
daring hedge
lol
bronze viper
I sometimes imagine 2 different designers tasked to template and design Artemis vs. Poseidon boons, bringing them to the table, and the Artemis person just like, going off on the Poseidon boons
"Wow omg they get pushed into walls and take how much damage? That's ridiculous."
daring hedge
poseidon clearly op and had to be contained to the state that he's in now
which is tidal dash shaped
bronze viper
Lol
Then I imagine the Artemis person repeating the process, and then convincing everyone that the Duos with Artemis needed some love to make sure they were appealing and unique enough
And Thus Hunting Blades Was Born
daring hedge
i'm honestly so glad hunting blades never got toned down too much. like yeah they got the tracking nerf but they strike such a good balance of "borderline op fun at lower heat" while never ever being a thing you can count on for high heat because you'd have to work with default rift cast for an indeterminate amount of time
or forever, depending on AP
bronze viper
It would obliterate high heat too if it didn't mean having to take Blade Rift lmao
daring hedge
yeah lol
bronze viper
I would say pretty comfortably it is better than Smoldering Air, if it wasn't impossible to get.
You do not need to invulnerable that which is dead.
autumn sable
@daring hedge that's a spicy time
bronze viper
Yeah, the rest of the run (time wise) is easy after Tartarus with twin shot Rama
proud jay
@daring hedge you magnificent beast
daring hedge
i got perfect shot first actually
proud jay
didn't quite realise rama is that good
daring hedge
chunk factor is off the charts
bronze viper
The power shot is so tasty now
autumn sable
who knew the secret to Rama was actually trying to hit the powershots
daring hedge
1.0 is so blessed for making that a reasonable thing to do
bronze viper
The upside of decreasing the charge time was that they effectively increased the damage at every point in the charge, so you can still play it like you had to in Blood Price, it's way better in that regard too
proud jay
@daring hedge did you record?
daring hedge
yee, vid will be up either later tonight or tomorrow
proud jay
cool
cosmic junco
LF “easiest” options for 32 heat. Adamant Rail user, completed my 20s & confident fighting EM4, have beat him about 10 times now
proud jay
EM4 is definitely not one of the easiest options
bronze viper
Do you already use FO2?
trim nebula
Let's start with square one. @trim nebula, what aspect would you like to try for?
@bronze viper chaos
cosmic junco
FO is one of the harder things for me to deal with personally
trim nebula
I just tried heat 16 for the first time
With EM4, FO1, TD2
And won
FO is a pain in the ass in hades fight
bronze viper
That's... one of the harder 16 Heat configurations that are possible, so congrats 🙂
trim nebula
Oh nice thank you
daring hedge
yeah lol
tidal flame
EM#
trim nebula
I put on FO cause it’s 3 heat on its own
bronze viper
FO is one of the harder things for me to deal with personally
@cosmic junco That's fine. At your heat level, EM4 and FO2 are fine, don't mix them though
trim nebula
I also had insane RNG that run
bronze viper
EM3 also becomes a great deal more problematic with FO2
cosmic junco
EM4 I like because phase3 gives me an adrenaline rush lol
trim nebula
Like, got everything I could ask for
And more
Gonna try heat 32 next for the statue
bronze viper
@cosmic junco Which rail?
trim nebula
But I’m not quite sure what’s the easiest heat config
bronze viper
Lol, this conversation is going to get confusing fast since you're asking the same questions but for 2 totally different aspects XD
cosmic junco
I use Eris Aspect because 75% all dmg is pretty nice, I enjoy triple bomb upgrade & usually get Aphrodite flourish & call, call easily does 5k+ dmg in most of my builds & I get it around 3 times in EM4
bronze viper
But I’m not quite sure what’s the easiest heat config
@trim nebula With Chaos, you can still probably take TD2 and be okay, but TD3 is pretty hard to hit. DC2 is also a lot less free than it used to be. I'd avoid JS and CP altogether. If you're comfortable with it, LC4 is always great for 4 heat
bronze viper
I use Eris Aspect because 75% all dmg is pretty nice, I enjoy triple bomb upgrade & usually get Aphrodite flourish & call, call easily does 5k+ dmg in most of my builds & I get it around 3 times in EM4
@cosmic junco Nice thing about Eris that very very few aspects, maybe only Rama in 1.0 can say is that it can do virtually any pact configuration comfortably. I would say CP2, EM4 assuming FO2 are the hardest, everything else is preference
This is also assuming a Lightning Strike build
Other builds are possible but I don't think any of them really compete at an equal playing ground to Lightning. You can do whatever you'd like with the special, depending on hammers and boons and whatnot
trim sigil
Can't really put dio or zeus on it tbh
Other than that yeah
fair yacht
Any general tips for maximizing runs with Shield and Spear?
All other weapons I can push into higher heats with, but seem to be struggling with these two in particular.
hollow lynx
there's discoveries to be had about thunder flourish cluster bomb i think, so zeus special may not be out of the park yet
bronze viper
Yeah it's a lot of raw damage with Eris
daring hedge
the biggest brain strat: stacking all cluster bombs on the enemy with drunken flourish 
bronze viper
mindsplosion
trim sigil
Add the targeting hammer and it's basically festive fog
bronze viper
Numbing Sensation, basically Ice Wine
hollow lynx
the biggest brain strat: stacking all cluster bombs on the enemy with drunken flourish
i might be an idealist but i’m not discounting this either!!!! drunken flourish has a really high base damage for a hangover boon
(though it’s probably not the best for high heat stuff so)
bronze viper
I take offense to that, Drunken Flourish has carried me through my highest heats lol.
hollow lynx
you use rama, probably the best applicator of drunken flourish out there
ember bronze
Chiron and Drunken Flourish and Low Tolerance is great
hollow lynx
rama does the same but with none of the restrictive single target playstyle
bronze viper
It's more that Rama doesn't have to compromise it's best offensive skill to apply Hangover
Chiron does
They're both good with hangover though, it just makes more sense to do it on Rama
trim nebula
Wait what
Why
Why’s it better to apply hangover on Rama
Maybe Rama is good... maybe I should level it up and play it more idk
bronze viper
Because Rama needs to use it's special to spread the Shared Sufffering debuff anyway
trim nebula
Y’all making it sound too good
bronze viper
You may as well apply Hangover while you're doing that
trim nebula
You may as well apply Hangover while you're doing that
@bronze viper but isn’t Chiron the same thing
hollow lynx
rama and chiron both apply quickly
trim nebula
You need special to do damage, might as well apply hangover while ur doing that
bronze viper
No, Chiron applying Hangover means Chiron isn't applying Deadly Flourish
hollow lynx
but: rama chains and can do an attack build at the same time
there’s no opportunity cost for rama, you’re gonna be using your special anyways
trim nebula
Maybe I should play Rama more
Good builds for Rama then?
Not necessarily high heat per se
bronze viper
If you want to try Hangover watch the 50 in the sticky here
hollow lynx
(also i’d like to emphasize the chaining part: chiron’s biggest weakness is it’s massively single target playstyle imo)
bronze viper
It's my favorite build path, though I typically aim for Deadly Strike (but AP2 decides what you get in a run lol)
hollow lynx
rama does both cc and single target at the same time, without opportunity cost
bronze viper
The more I play with Chiron the easier it is to say, apply the mark, position other units between you and them, and then use special
trim nebula
Y’all hyping Rama up so much
bronze viper
to get "aoe"
hollow lynx
rama is like, the best of both worlds (the worlds being zag and chiron)
daring hedge
by far my favorite 4th aspect, that's for sure
trim nebula
Hangover? Crit?
bronze viper
I think getting Chiron's potential for single target damage is Level 1. I don't think it has a problem with AoE once you learn how to position well though. It's much harder though.
trim nebula
Hangover on special, crit on attack?
hollow lynx
rama special can also run zeus, unlike chiron
daring hedge
that works, yeah
bronze viper
It's my favorite build path, but you can do, say, Heartbreak Strike + Thunder Flourish for Smoldering Air as well
hollow lynx
one of my first rama wins was literally just spamming thunder flourish and going all in on zeus
bronze viper
Or Heartbreak STrike + Drunken Flourish + Relentless Volley for Low Tolerance
daring hedge
rip any swift flourish just turning rama special into a machine gun
bronze viper
I've even had good results with Heartbreak Strike + Curse of Pain for Curse of Longing
trim nebula
Actually now that u out those that way
A lot of build works for Rama
I could probably just move my build from chaos onto Rama and it would prob work
hollow lynx
probably lol
trim nebula
Aphro attack dio special for low tolerance
daring hedge
kind of yeah, though rama cares more about its attack boon than chaos
hollow lynx
dire misfortune is also an option
trim nebula
Ares attack dio special for curse of nausea
bronze viper
I have done that for memes, but Rama has a THICK base damage, and a 1.6x minimum miultiplier for attack
You really want to use it
trim nebula
Smoldering air with Rama seems good too
hollow lynx
eh, save attack for aphro, it’d be easier to apply weak for low tolerance that way
bronze viper
Minimum meaning if you hit 3 targets with Shared Suffering with one attack, they each apply 60% of the total hit... to each other
hollow lynx
put ares on something else, like cast or aid
bronze viper
You end up with a 2.8x multiplier in that very common scenario
trim nebula
put ares on something else, like cast or aid
@hollow lynx true but I hate ares cast and aid
I have done that for memes, but Rama has a THICK base damage, and a 1.6x minimum miultiplier for attack
@bronze viper what does that mean
hollow lynx
if you get artemis aid, you get chance for splitting headache, heart rend, or hunting blades 😛
trim nebula
Minimum meaning if you hit 3 targets with Shared Suffering with one attack, they each apply 60% of the total hit... to each other
@bronze viper wait how does shared suffering work
bronze viper
Meaning for a weapon with a ton of damage multipliers, you want big flat attack damage
trim nebula
if you get artemis aid, you get chance for splitting headache, heart rend, or hunting blades 😛
@hollow lynx that’s actually smart as hell
bronze viper
So Aphro or Artemis
trim nebula
Im@gonna look for arty aid from now on
hollow lynx
if there’s one thing i’m good at, it’s duo boon hunting lol
daring hedge
would not recommend that normally but sure
bronze viper
I mean, I would advise against that, since both Hunter Dash and Deadly Strike are excellent on Rama
daring hedge
lol
bronze viper
Why bother wasting your call slot
hollow lynx
if you’re gonna go in on a dio flourish build, aphro attack would be optimal for weak application
trim nebula
Rama does 1.6x attack damage on its own right
Bc of shared suffering?
1.6x to one target and 0.6x to the rest?
Is that how it works?
hollow lynx
therefore, artemis should be on aid for the chance of heart rend or splitting headache, and ares on cast for CoN or HB
bronze viper
I usually end up going Deadly for Splitting Headache a lot more if I'm not going specifically Relentless Volley
hollow lynx
curse of nrowning 😛
trim nebula
Does Rama do 1.0x to one target and 0.6x to the rest?
daring hedge
never get as in the game refuses to let it show up
trim nebula
Or 1.6x to one and 0.6 to rest?
hollow lynx
honestly it's a contender for best hangover duo lol
daring hedge
for real
bronze viper
Rama does 1.6x attack damage on its own right
@trim nebula The way it works is that when you hit anything with your attack, every enemy that has Shared Suffering will take 60% of that attack
So if you hit 2 targets affected by Suffering, that's 120% of the attack damage to both of them
hollow lynx
low tolerance probably edges out at first, but CoN comes right after (then splitting headache, ig)
trim nebula
I’m gonna try Rama soon
bronze viper
The math gets weird and complicated with crit though since it's calculated per hit on an enemy, so who knows what the damage will be
daring hedge
upgrading rama asap if you like it or intend to use it is hugely worth it
hollow lynx
basically: bow good
trim nebula
upgrading rama asap if you like it or intend to use it is hugely worth it
@daring hedge I do have some spare blood rn
Gonna do that
bronze viper
Rama has a learning curve, heads up though lol
hollow lynx
the moral of the story is that bow mains are elite
bronze viper
It's not as snappy and free as say, Zag bow
daring hedge
realtime ramafication
trim nebula
Rama has a learning curve, heads up though lol
@bronze viper learning curve? What’s that? Never heard of it in my life
I win games on my first run
mossy zinc
Me too. I did 52 Heat first try. 👸🏽
trim nebula
EZ Clap
hollow lynx
das a lot of butterflies
mossy zinc
I got hit by Poseidon's trial lol. Twice. 
Also by Asterius's charge one time because he's. so. slow. with FO0. How do you make him crash into anything. 
Oh right.
Make that 52. 👸🏽
daring hedge
that's maybe the biggest butterfly bonus i've seen, very nice
mossy zinc
Ty ty.
I felt as though Deadly Flourish was bugged though and critting 100% of the time.
F10d, but I'm too lazy to do the math.
trim nebula
Good hammers for Rama?
daring hedge
twin shot, perfect shot, point blank shot, relentless volley
triple and chain are good too
in essence: a lot
hollow lynx
triple plus point-blank for the ultimate melee build
daring hedge
so true
hollow lynx
relentless if you want to lean on special any
daring hedge
also i know explosive shot can work on it too, but i personally don't like it because i'm addicted to power shots
daring hedge
it can take some getting used to compared to normal bow power shots, but they're 100% worth it on rama if you have the time and space to do it
which is more often than you might initially think
bronze viper
Relentless is also amazing for DC. Rama is pretty DC proof against single target but DC2 in groups, it's hard to get the hearts down with base special. Hangover or Relentless Volley makes that very straightforward
Hangover and Relentless Volley is enough to just breeze through the first two biomes without fuss at any heat
daring hedge
same mirror that i usually take into high heat
bronze viper
Family Favorites, if you're on AP0, God's Legacy, if AP1/2, God's Pride
The rest is pretty standard
bronze viper
Not necessary
And that's saying something, very few aspects get PS as free as Rama
Still not worth
daring hedge
agreed
trim nebula
And that's saying something, very few aspects get PS as free as Rama
@bronze viper how so
bronze viper
The special is a debuff machine, and Heartbreak Strike is already your default attack of choice
trim nebula
Does shared suffering count as a curse?
bronze viper
No, but Hangover, Jolted, Doom do
trim nebula
The special is a debuff machine, and Heartbreak Strike is already your default attack of choice
@bronze viper but it’s STILL not worth to take priv status?
daring hedge
i would love if weapon debuffs counted as status curses towards PS, but no 😔
trim nebula
i would love if weapon debuffs counted as status curses towards PS, but no 😔
@daring hedge me too
bronze viper
Correct. The correct conclusion to draw from my statement is therefore that it is never worthwhile to take Privileged Status
daring hedge
lol
daring hedge
don't you just get incredibly excited and pumped up when urge to kill shows up
bronze viper
(wow Urge is bad)
daring hedge
absolutely build-defining
bronze viper
The advantage of FF is that there is no condition. It is always up
bronze viper
No, FF is free
trim nebula
Why don’t u want free damage
bronze viper
PS comes at a cost
daring hedge
PS is definitely not free
bronze viper
You need for it to actually be up to do anything
So not only do you not get bonus damage on the initial ability taht applies the first curse
trim nebula
But it’s easy to have it up
bronze viper
You won't get additional damage on the last hit that hits after PS wears off
trim nebula
Hmm ok
mossy zinc
Most of my runs are never really eligible for PS for at least most of the run.
trim nebula
I’ll try fam fav more
bronze viper
The higher in heat you go, the less good PS gets
The less boons you'll get, the less Blinding Flashes, or Rupturing Shoal, or Impending Doom, etc.
The less you'll want Demeter as well
The queen of PS
(8 second stacking debuff)
tidal flame
PS?
bronze viper
Privileged Status
tidal flame
just Forfeit
bronze viper
Every time someone takes Drunken Dash early in a run for PS, an angel loses its wings
"It's free"
daring hedge
drunken dash is just... so bad. "but it's good for DC hearts!" so are a bunch of other dash boons that are better
bronze viper
The WORST dash in the game lol. It disables both Divine Dash and Dionysus' Aid. What a travesty of a boon.
tidal flame
like Divine Dash
there is a hidden buff
you need to be drunk
and Drunken Dash will do 3x damage
if you don't see that then you are not drunk enough
daring hedge
zag after chugging ten nectars in a row: wow lord dionysus this dash boon is INCREDIBLE i brought just this and my run took only an hour
bronze viper
The dash tier list is so odd though:
Divine Dash
No Dash
Hunter Dash
Tidal Dash
Stuff that isn't Drunken Dash but enables PS
Blade Dash (I mean.... it does kill Flamewheels and Chariots well)
Drunken Dash
daring hedge
i hate that blade dash takes like, all of the blade T2s and ideally vicious cycle to get good and feel more fun
otherwise just awkward
also lol at the insert future divine dash here entry above hunter
mossy zinc
Yeah, but it's true.
bronze viper
Lol, it's like preparing a crib for your future baby
mossy zinc
No-Dash is second-best dash.
bronze viper
Here's the dash slot where you will sleep, my child
daring hedge
shout out to lightning reflexes for being a better thunder dash than thunder dash
bronze viper
Oh I know right? It doesn't qualify for Smoldering Air though because the Gods are fickle creatures
daring hedge
https://puu.sh/GBuAc/678258b8d4.jpg theseus losing like 45% of his health from shared suffering damage alone; i didn't touch him at all the whole time i killed asterius lmao
bronze viper
He takes extra Suffering from their bond of Brotherhood
daring hedge
only a filthy blackguard like zagreus would dare take advantage of this
shy axle
dissapointing to find out that artemis call doesnt qualify for heart rend
somber rose
No-Dash is second-best dash.
@mossy zinc wait how? because you at least keep the option open for later?
mossy zinc
Yep.
somber rose
what's PS?
mossy zinc
Privileged Status.
mossy zinc
The game is balanced around 0–20 Heat. It doesn't matter much there.
tidal flame
the DD boon also saves many a high heat run
somber rose
yup it's like winning the athena lottery
mossy zinc
Too many attacks in the game that are a pain without Deflect and free when you do have Deflect.
There's no real way to change things now to not have Divine Dash so far above the rest.
Except nerf Deflect a lot lol.
bronze viper
You could make the other dashes more appealing. It worked with Tidal
somber rose
if you increase their hitboxes and make them erase projectiles more reliably etc.
worldly needle
heya, is there an updated v1.0 guide for 32 heat runs? Ive been trying for a while but can never quite complete 32 heat
i guess the pinned sheet has some youtube videos, though these seem to be SUPER high heat
mossy zinc
Well, there's still a lot to learn from those runs.
bronze viper
I'd advise watching streamers, like Haelian to see what they do at 32. He does them pretty frequently
mossy zinc
I can't tell what people expect from a 32 Heat guide tbh.
bronze viper
32 is still exceptionally free-form and expressive.
You can really let your memes be dreams
worldly needle
some good weapon/boon combinations really, but thanks ill look up that steamer
mossy zinc
TD has anti-synergy with JS CP DC.
bronze viper
We can offer more specific advice if you have an aspect in mind
mossy zinc
This one covers base weapons, but it's still true for most aspects. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2233472883
worldly needle
oh cheers, ill check it out!
do you guys prefer UC /AC, or is it best to not take them and keep Zag as powerful, and power up the enmies in turn
ive found by keeping RI im doing better cause the rarer boons makes a big difference
bronze viper
AP and RI should typically be some of the last pacts you'll take, but UC is harmeless on its own
mossy zinc
Smoldering Air
Excalibur, Guan Yu, Aegis, Coronacht, Hestia:
Eternal Rose > Thunder Signet/Owl Pendant > whatever > Acorn
Eris:
Thunder Signet > Eternal Rose/Owl Pendant > whatever > Acorn
Heart Rend
Chiron:
Eternal Rose > Arrowhead/Owl Pendant > whatever > Acorn
Deflect/Melee
Stygius, Malphon:
Owl Pendant > Arrowhead/Coin Purse/Acorn > Acorn > Acorn
Merciful End
Stygius, Aegis, Malphon:
Blood-filled Vial > Owl Pendant > Acorn > Acorn
Those are my go-to builds.
Don't need Acorn in Elysium if you're not running EM3+.
I don't do pure cast builds, so I don't have a preference there. I only do semi-cast builds on Beowulf, but that's just building for Smoldering Air.
mossy zinc
I also don't really play spear aspects other than Guan Yu. I can play them and wing it, but I don't have a preference because I don't have much experience with them.
Lucky Tooth is only 100 HP + some.
Acorn can tank 400+ HP for you in that fight.
Sometimes it's less if you're getting a bad summon that eats up your Acorn, but on average, your effective HP with Acorn is the highest.
worldly needle
ahh i getcha cool
mossy zinc
Well, it's often less than 400, but even tanking 200 damage is still great.
It scales with HL, too.
crystal iron
and sometimes you tank only about 10 hp with the acorn, because butterfly balls
it happens sometimes
maiden geode
@mossy zinc but where's the athena dash in some of these builds
mint pendant
hi guys, what do you think is the best weapon to reach 32 heat
mossy zinc
Your favorite aspect would be best.
bronze viper
Whatever your heart desires
mossy zinc
@maiden geode hm?
mint pendant
idk i like both bow and fists
mossy zinc
Sounds like it's gonna be either of those two, then.
mossy zinc
Yeah.
tepid mural
theres no way he can hit me with the 3 dodges iframes
mossy zinc
Dashes have startup and recovery that aren't invincible.
Dash-Strikes also have no i-frames at all.
maiden geode
is athena dash not a priority sometimes
wanton plover
with AP its kinda hard to get, and on eris i dont mind getting other dashes, like say poseidon but most times i really want her dash
itll never feel like you get athena dash and then say wow that was a huge mistake tho
mossy zinc
I don't know what builds you're talking about. The only one that didn't feature the Owl Pendant is Chiron.
Although I just added it. Not like it's necessary for Chiron, though.
bronze viper
Doesn't hurt lol. Way better than Hunter Dash
mossy zinc
5 Olympians. https://imgur.com/a/4UwVUWZ
And there's #6. https://imgur.com/a/UozfmhU
lol I died to 30-damage traps.
Stupid rats stepping on platform traps.
wanton plover
F
mossy zinc
That's what I get for doing High Confidence Guan Yu and avoiding Centaur Hearts because I'm just no-hitting most chambers anyway.
FO0 is so easy lol.
mossy zinc
Finally 32 all weapons. 👸🏽 https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725021639506526249/764430363086422036/Hades_868.png?width=795&height=447
honest kernel
@mossy zinc how i could obtain this custom banner?
mossy zinc
That's from the House Contractor. I think it cost 20 or 25 Ambrosia? Not sure what the requirements are to be offered it. I think it was on offer immediately for me when I updated to 1.0.
TFW in the Temple of Styx at 41 Heat unseeded with Guan Yu and you're not recording because you didn't feel like it.
On the bright side, I only have 9 HP and 1 DD, so hopefully I won't make it.
Oh no, I'm at Hades with Charged Skewer, Smoldering Air, and Second Wind at 41 Heat without recording.
Hurray, I died.
static plover
it was 15 ambrosia when I bought is a little bit ago
probably still the theme I enjoy most
mossy zinc
💗 > all
honest kernel
Thanks
mossy zinc
lost otter
You know guys.yesterday Bablo speedrunner use Dad keepsake on cup.I was terribly impressed. Its athena call +100% damage from all source of damage. i try it now. its insane.
mossy zinc
Does it work as a requirement for Smoldering Air?
lost otter
i dont try it both at same time.
but for cast build its Huge deal. and how i saw: its work for summons too. 
its feels like eris buff in pocket
sullen ivy
why is 32 heat like, a common number to talk about
lost otter
why is 32 heat like, a common number to talk about
@sullen ivy Every step of Heat after 32 feels harder the befor in game play.
mossy zinc
Because the last in-game reward for heat is at 32 Heat.
sullen ivy
Thanks
mossy zinc
No comment on my Guan Yu WR from anyone.
@daring hedge I'm a spear pro like you now. I did 41 with spear.
That's practically the same as 50 because I had -50% HP.
wanton plover
congrats
mossy zinc
Thank you! 
wanton plover
peepohappy
mossy zinc
Very kind of you to notice.
lost otter
you record your 41?
mossy zinc
Yeah, I posted it in #self-promotion just now.
lost otter
@mossy zinc Gz!
mossy zinc
Thanks!
bronze viper
You know guys.yesterday Bablo speedrunner use Dad keepsake on cup.I was terribly impressed. Its athena call +100% damage from all source of damage. i try it now. its insane.
@lost otter I thought the damage buff only worked for Greater calls
lost otter
its fork for 1 attack in invs if lesser. or all damage in greater call.
mossy zinc
That keepsake might be S tier just for the fact it increases your chances of getting Divine Dash lol.
bronze viper
I see
lost otter
i try it with artemis spear+ crystals. alote of hits=>faster greater call.
bronze viper
And since it always starts at 30, you can always one empowered attack off. Interesting
lost otter
if add poseidon damage for first second in figth. one cast can melt.
probably
in speedrun run bablo use zeus cast +keepsake to clean room on claws.
bronze viper
There's still the opportunity cost of breaking the God > God > Acorn > Acorn build for high heat, and not being able to get another call, but it's an interesting choice I guess. The damage buff working out of stealth makes it a lot better than I thought it was
It's interesting for example with AP2, where your starting god boon does comparatively so much less on average
lost otter
i dont use acorn) i use ahilies brases. little lest effective HP on boss. but more save on Sacks
daring hedge
@mossy zinc very nice, congrats!
bronze viper
How much of the run did you have 100% crit lol
daring hedge
The GY high heat strat: just break crits wide open
lost otter
my fellings. dad keepsake must have for all weapons what can do fast hits,support fire,crystal cast,dio,seas storm.
im realy bad at spear. and this keepsake rigth now same me more than 5 times from hits.
probably in good hands its be OP
bronze viper
It seems like it would only be worthwhile on something that can hit multiple enemies in one attack. It doesn't grant invincibility while attack in the majority of situations otherwise.
lost otter
becaus its can boos damage on Healing.take all damage from lasers if you in disposition,save from cerberus.
becaus lesser call if you do not attack give you like athena call on 3-4 seconds.
bronze viper
No it doesn't lol, you can attack in Athena's call
That's a big deal.
That's like, the entire deal.
Because every lesser call grants iframes, so Athena's shtick is that you can use your own damage as the Call damage
I can easily see for speed running the advantages on some aspects, but I remain skeptical for heat runs. Hera would probably be my go to to see if the 3 casts + attack all get the damage buff on stealth break
lost otter
its way to EM4. becaus you can avoid so many. and boost damage at same time. and how you say speedrunners use its. its way to faster room clearing.
mossy zinc
@bronze viper not sure tbh. I just noticed it at some point in the run.
bronze viper
Oh, right lol. Just realized that I'm not guaranteed to get a cast I want if I start Hera on Sigil. Over it. It may be fine Asphodel+ but don't have the patience to test that atm.
I did confirm that it works as expected for Hera, but I haven't yet tested if it's worth doing on, or on which cast, or if it's worth sacrificing your normal Call or keepsake. Maybe on Chiron instead of Acorns if you haven't gotten a call yet, with like Electric Shot or something? It builds charge very quickly
compact ibex
Which pacts does people recommend for 16 and 32 Heat? I'm struggling so hard to find a proper one.
ruby cipher
Somewhere there's a link to a table of pact options for beginners I think
lost otter
im bad at spear.bad at cast build.alote of mistakes.and bad quality. but you can see all. Em3 and its was easy and so many call used.||with sigil https://www.dropbox.com/s/ehc4zye7ts8k41j/Ahi Art Dem sigil.mp4?dl=0 ||
ruby cipher
@compact ibex I think this might help you https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GC6usKK7_B7h_H2nE4XXkSZ1iVYZa9q_n64VtlFCdog/edit#gid=0
compact ibex
Thanks!
mossy zinc
I don't know how helpful that really is.
ruby cipher
At least it will help them decide
I didn't even look at it so I wouldn't know either, but it says beginner FAQ and it has pact combinations
mossy zinc
No, it just ranks pact without any consideration for combos.
lost otter
BP 2 in B tier? probably its harder than JS2. becaus dual types very danger. specialy some combo with enemy(Crystals copy speed. shield guys shielding+some thing). BP2 in some combo can ruin run easy af to new players.But its my opinion
bronze viper
B tier is fine. BP2 is not dangerous on its own, only in combination with other pacts. Which is similar to what @mossy zinc was saying. Pacts can't really be judged in a vacuum.
On average, at high heat, JS is one of the most dangerous pacts, and it's only worth up to 3 heat. BP is worth 5
daring hedge
Also maybe not related to that tier list specifically, but BP2 is a pact that's worth just running often and getting used to, since there's slight learning curves to dealing with specific BP configurations, while JS is straightforwardly just "more enemies" and takes less of a cognitive adjustment for players overall, I'd say
ruby cipher
Forgot to write to feedback that the slowing down rings on enemies should increase with time instead of having their default size from the beginning...
lost otter
On average, at high heat, JS is one of the most dangerous pacts, and it's only worth up to 3 heat. BP is worth 6
@bronze viper Yup. but i talk about beginers. beginers with BP 2....naaah. its pain,skill players strugling time to time. what about beginers if High heat playes strugling time to time?
bronze viper
It's worth 5 heat. The direct implication then is that it is difficult. I don't think it imparts a false expectation
JS is deceptively difficult even if it's only 3
But that really only applies once you have Tight Deadline
mossy zinc
JS alone with good AOE damage makes barely any difference in clear time—even with JS3.
CP makes a big difference.
Whether you kill 3 enemies with 1 hit or 5 enemies with 1 hit doesn't matter much.
But if you need 1 extra hit for every enemy in a region, that will really slow you down.
Although in my experience, with 100% crit chance it doesn't matter.
Maybe I was imagining the crit chance and it just does that much damage lol.
lost otter
"What? Why is that difficult?"
@compact ibex that what i talking about. for new playes +20% its...nothing.They play carefull. But armored boys with 2 afficses Huge deal.
daring hedge
??? They were joking in context of JS meaning javascript lol
visual grotto
What makes a pact “good for bounties“?
wanton plover
when it fills your heat gauge
each weapons heat gauge starts at 0 (or 5 in heck mode) and once you beat a run with gauge filled, it increases by one, no matter what heat you beat it on, itll increase by one only, so long as heat gauge was filled
bronze viper
Pacts that add a very minor to imperceptible amount of difficulty (especially not in combination with other pacts) are ideal for bounty farming when you're new to the game. So, e.g. the first rank of Tight Deadline does nearly nothing. It can in fact, even help, since Survival rooms can't spawn with it active.
mossy zinc
@autumn sable @hallow stream just wanna say, don't add any runs from the current test-branch that have any crit boons (or add them separately or something if you want to preserve them) because crit chance is totally broken right now. That includes my own run with Guan Yu from today.
context: https://discordapp.com/channels/456889434672201729/760619863822565418/764498043470872576
daring hedge
??? It wasn't broken in my Rama run
mossy zinc
Your Rama run was before the patch yesterday, right?
- Fixed an issue where Deadly Flourish would reduce the critical chance of Vicious Skewer
They patched this yesterday, and apparently that broke Deadly Strike and Deadly Flourish at least. And maybe other crit boons?
It behaves normal at Lv.1.
lost otter
i dont know. But this too broken.jesus
mossy zinc
But once you put poms on it, your crit chance will be whatever the number for your +X% Special damage on Deadly Strike/Flourish is.
So you can very quickly get 100% crit chance lol.
AND that crit chance for some reason applies to all your other damage.
So @lost otter's Support Fire was critting and my Poseidon's Aid was critting.
daring hedge
Huh, well I'm pretty certain whatever that bug may be, it didn't apply to my Rama run. Watching any of it back, it's pretty clear that the crit rate is typical throughout
lost otter
In hades Video Crystal crits too
daring hedge
That's wild though
mossy zinc
Yeah, your Rama run is fine. I'm talking only about the current build, whatever number that is.
lost otter
Looks like time to 63 heat
mossy zinc
I was happy I did 32 and then 41 Heat with spear today.
Now it kind of feels wrong.
lol just do Eris Lightning Strike + Deadly Flourish.
Pom your Deadly Flourish, and all your Chain Lightning will crit.
lost otter
No! i go with dio + artemis) its already do great job with ares.
with this its totaly 63 heat)🤣
mossy zinc
That works too. Just crit on all Hangover tics.
How about this:
Lightning Strike + Deadly Flourish + Dionsysus' Aid.
lost otter
Hm! now about demeter aid?))
mossy zinc
Demeter's Aid DPS is too low.
Dionysus' Aid has the best DPS.
3–4 more damage than Demeter's Aid lol.
lost otter
Demeter's Aid DPS is too low.
@mossy zinc its totaly low rigth.but if add arctic blast it my baby)
daring hedge
oh geez it just applies that increased crit to all damage sources holy moly
lost otter
i totaly wana try my artur on 63 heat)))
mossy zinc
dawn forum
Has anyone beat 63 heat?
daring hedge
@mossy zinc i'm testing this with eris and it seems normal
no unexpected crits
lv. 2 deadly flourish
mossy zinc
It happened on Guan Yu and Zag bow.
lost otter
That's extremely impressive. I just beat my first 16 heat
@dawn forum residents of this chanel play on 32+ heat.
Ahillies spear and hera broken too
mossy zinc
Maybe it's weapons that have an aspect with crit chance.
Spear and bow.
Maybe sword, too.
dawn forum
I'll get there one day
lost otter
Maybe sword, too.
@mossy zinc i go on artur to check
daring hedge
i'll test on more things later; i feel like it's way more specific than initially thought if it's a thing though
mossy zinc
I'm on version "Relase 36331" if I press F10. @daring hedge you're on the same version?
daring hedge
yeah, same version
daring hedge
so a non-crit boon was critting because of deadly strike or flourish, sergei?
daring hedge
that sounds very vague and inconclusive lol
lost otter
How @mossy zinc say poseidon call take this bonus crit chance. Doom dont
But i have lvl 10 artemis attack on hera. and doom dont start crit.
Its need alote of test.to find what realy happens to create this bug. and what abilities crused on bonus crit chance. But what i know for sure. a im already test it. all artemis attacks and specials on any weapon broken on crit chance.
honest kernel
What you recomend for my first 32 Heat run?
I wanna try de auto aim special bow with aphro and artemis powers and using the hammer +4 special arrows
mossy zinc
Lv.6 Common Deadly Strike Hestia: 100% crit chance.
honest kernel
How i obtain 100% crit chance?
mossy zinc
It's a bug in test branch.
You just put poms on Deadly Strike or Deadly Flourish, and your crit chance goes up.
lost otter
How i obtain 100% crit chance?
@honest kernel but it posible.
in live version you have way to have 100% crit chance.
honest kernel
You just put poms on Deadly Strike or Deadly Flourish, and your crit chance goes up.
@mossy zinc ok thanks, i Will try this
mossy zinc
Yeah, in the live version you can reach that only with Hunter's Mark.
lost otter
honest kernel
But im in switch and is an older versión
lost otter
no matter. mark give you crit chance to any next damage in target with mark
mossy zinc
The bug is only in the test branch version that's posted in #test-branch-updates.
sly meteor
Mark doesn’t work too well against bosses
mossy zinc
Yeah, if you want big crits in the live version, just get Hunter's Mark. It's great.
Hmmm it works quite well.
lost otter
yup.
mossy zinc
They all have adds that can you crit.
Hades has his skulls and summons.
Theseus and Asterius you just hit back and forth.
sly meteor
Sure but the ads die faster than the boss, you only keep mark up as long as 2 are alive
lost otter
all boses have adds exept one. green girl
mossy zinc
Yeah, but it adds a lot of DPS anyway.
And Hades has a tendency to spam skulls lol.
Oh yeah, Tis doesn't have adds lol. She also has the most HP of the Furies.
lost otter
and mark work even on cast and Doom
probably best to just show you how this effective
its old video from live game version btw. with out bug on crit.But look like i have 100% crit chance.
daring hedge
yeah, mark is amazing on champs, especially non-EM3
lost otter
for me mark every time best choose. specialy on higt heat. its way to clean 2+ enemy after 2-3 aoe attacks what hit all of them.
like triple dash strike on spear. or triden attack(hammer up)
and mark amazing with dio. becaus if you multi hangover. and have to prock only one mark..... all be dead.becaus hangover start melt.its just discausting damage.
ember bronze
Mark is great with anything that spams out lots of tiny damage events
lost otter
on spear i dont wana some thing like supprot fire. becaus tiny damage spend mark or my spin attack or special with some great damage boons(demeter aphro athena.) Dio another deal.its different world.
formal gust
ok so does anyone here have any tips for 32 heat nemesis
daring hedge
nemesis is so strong you can kinda slap athena on it and let the crit chance do the heavy lifting while special to dash-strike weaving. it's a safe but still strong option
or just go heart rend
you'll ideally want double edge in any case
formal gust
athena dash?
daring hedge
definitely works, yeah
hunter dash is better damage for the optimal sword loop, but nemesis can do fine without it at 32, for sure
formal gust
you said slap athena on it tho
daring hedge
and i mean it as vaguely as i said it
attack, special, dash
whatever
all works on nemesis
trim sigil
dio doesn't, bruh
To be as straightforward as possible: Heartbreak Strike, Frost Flourish or any other debuff if you use Privileged Status, Divine Dash. Hammers: Double Edge musthave, special hammers good, Snap Nova h (up to you)
daring hedge
@trim sigil "all works on nemesis" was in reference to athena, bruh
trim sigil
Well, turning into an allreflecting ball of death also works
But it's a tad less efficient
daring hedge
and i made that point earlier, yes
it's easy to recommend for a smooth 32
for someone who just wants to get that
trim sigil
Nah, like, to the point where killing enemies even faster would save you more than occasional deflect from sword hitbox
But then again, all boils down to nemesis going brrr so hard that everything works, yes
daring hedge
depends on if HL5 is active or not. despite the damage, bosses can still punish that play if it's reckless
it's not like i don't know what i'm talking about irt nem lol, i did 45 with it
daring hedge
not really
trim sigil
Definitely could find less impactful pacts for that
daring hedge
for sure yeah, at 32 especially
formal gust
oh ive been using hl5 lol
daring hedge
formal gust
idk what else to put the heat into
daring hedge
what does your pact look like for these 32 attempts?
formal gust
bronze viper
BP2 hurts a lot less than 3x HL
daring hedge
and go for like, some JS or get LC4 to max with SD
bronze viper
I believe at HL2, Tartarus brimstone lasers only hit for 1 damage?
The game just rounds, right?
formal gust
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/392070250511728653/764598473307193364/unknown.png this better?
bronze viper
It matters a lot on Nemesis lol, sometimes you'll be caught out without a dash and clipped with lasers for a bit
daring hedge
like, you could straight up transfer the points from CP to DC
daring hedge
i'm a masochist apparently because one of my high heat runs didn't get double edge lol
and i ran DC2
bronze viper
That's so gross hahaha
daring hedge
it wasn't terrible but it was a little annoying for sure
formal gust
ok ill take one point off CP and put it back into CF
I think im gonna start with athena keepsake actually lol
bronze viper
Also, I just watched the 50 Rama unseeded you posted yester/today @daring hedge . Omg I'm not the only one who does it. Pretty much without fail in early Tartarus, I will try to end a room by hitting an enemy with blue hearts with an attack, brain fart, realize it's not dead, then hit it with special, it still doesn't die, brain fart, then hit it with attack instead of special to finish it off lol.
daring hedge
lmao YEAH like
doesn't matter how much experience i have, that still happens and it makes me feel so dumb
lost otter
can you give me link?
daring hedge
formal gust
I think im gonna go for deadly reversal
trim sigil
Looking at what I used in Blood Price for 32 nemesis:
LC2 CF2 EM3 BP2 MM UC FO2 DC1 AP1 TD2 (this one is old though, 5 heat vs 3 now)
Could go with same thing and it'd just require adding like HL1
(because EM3 is 6 heat now instead of 5)
bronze viper
This is what I would do for 32 Nem, assuming no seed, and Owl Pendant start: https://imgur.com/TP45H5d
formal gust
would you get athena dash to start
formal gust
deadly reversal
bronze viper
Without EM3, the advantages of Divine Dash over Strike aren't nearly as pronounced.
(Still get both if offered lol)
formal gust
I need to learn EM3 anyway
bronze viper
Learning it on melee is bold. Especially since Nemesis consumes dashes to attack.
trim sigil
Well, all asterius attacks can be deflected so dash for the rescue
bronze viper
Except the charge lol.
formal gust
all the stuff with pact optimizations is kinda confusing to me
trim sigil
There is always an ultimate solution
Run whatever
Rage cancel everything that gets you killed the most and try other stuff
lost otter
just go and try. less talking more figths to feel what punisment strugling you more than others
and you find optimal for you.
bronze viper
all the stuff with pact optimizations is kinda confusing to me
@formal gust "What pacts to run at x" is by far the most commonly asked question in this channel, but the answer until you start approaching 50 is pretty much always "what you're comfortable with".
The closer to 50 you get, the more "wrong" choices you have to make with pacts lol, you just have to live with them.
Excalibur feels like it reaches that point at like mid 30s though lol
lost otter
idk. i feel problem on dad. on my heat choose. Dad EM4 with all my heat strugling me. to that point im have natural 2-3 dd for figth with him
bronze viper
That's more or less my experience no matter what pact. Excalibur feels excellent at 32, but there are so many pacts that just set it over the edge of awkward to use.
lost otter
my opinion most paifull its DC 2 with timer . if you dont find dio dash or even zeus dash.you chance to lose grow up
bronze viper
Yeah that's the typical consensus. Though otherwise I don't really have an issue hitting TD3 with Excal
For 32 heat I'd probably use a pretty similar setup to the one I linked above, but move 2 points of HL to AP1
formal gust
well I lost mid elysium but I guess im getting there
bronze viper
It's fine. I die in Tartarus all the time
dim lotus
Died to theseus on a promising 32 heat run 
mossy zinc
If at first you don't succeed, try, try again.
dim lotus
hera bow, epic frost special, 5 dashes, and i got 3 free revives from the premium styx, and i got wiped by that stupid minotaur/theseus on foot
waste of an RNG blessing
mossy zinc
It be like that sometimes.
dim lotus
mossy zinc
Then you get the worst build and somehow make it.
dim lotus
what weapons do yall use? i think ill try exagryph next, i think i do best with it
bronze viper
We all play a bunch of stuff
dim lotus
i think i managed to reduce the difficulty of my 32 runs the best i can, i just traded it for build pain
bronze viper
I think the ones I play most disproportionately are Rama, Eris, Chiron, and Zag Bow? Those are the ones I'm most likely to push heat on at any rate
dim lotus
rama?
radiant plover
what aspect of each weapon would be best for high heat to prioritize my early titans blood? Right now im really really loving the chiron bow, lucifer gun, zeus shield, the magnet pull gloves idk about spear or sword though. I dont have arthurs yet and maxxed zag for skelly
bronze viper
Friendship ended with Hestia. Now Eris is my best friend.
dim lotus
why rama?
radiant plover
what do you guys play on im on switch right now and the reload is clumsy so hestia is kinda meh
bronze viper
Because Rama is amazing lol. In my defense I loved playing Rama when it was terrible
dim lotus
i play on switch
bronze viper
So... now I really love playing it
wanton plover
remap your controls
dim lotus
my controls are screwed up, but im used to them
radiant plover
see i like that
radiant plover
im accustomed to an xbox controller and played bumper jumper i just dont know what a good combo would be
dim lotus
zL support, L call, zR nectar, R cast, B dash, Y/A attack/special, and X is confirm
radiant plover
are you playing on joy cons?
dim lotus
its similar to my devil may cry control scheme, where i end up holding down a ton of buttons at once. procon
joycons... hmm
id probably do something similar, because i like having a jump/dodge as the bottom button, and have my attacks right next to it for my thumb to access it easily
radiant plover
i play it alot on commute we drive 3 hours a day
dim lotus
oof
bronze viper
I play on joycons without too much issue
radiant plover
did you remap reload
bronze viper
I obviously prefer controller, but if I'm pushing heat I'm doing it on PC anyway
Yeah of course lol
radiant plover
whats your reload on joycons
dim lotus
reload is L3
bronze viper
Left trigger
dim lotus
R3 is book forme
bronze viper
Yeah I remapped R3 to Codex
It's such a weird choice on their part, I don't know why the default mapping is like that
radiant plover
i could def do that, uhhh why on high heat do you guys play pc? is cross save available yet i saw the option
o sorry
i need to go read the thing again I dont see where i swore unless i read over it
bronze viper
Easier recording, and I can practice temp saves on PC
Easier recording and submission*
rocky lark
Oh I really want to remap reload
mossy zinc
It's such a weird choice on their part, I don't know why the default mapping is like that
Maybe just because the default mapping existed before Exagryph was a thing.
bronze viper
The absolute worst is that Confirm/Cancel are backwards on PC/Switch lol
rocky lark
I feel like r3 is one of the worst places to put a button you have to use during combat
bronze viper
If I play between them back to back I spend so long thinking about Wells of Charon
radiant plover
okay can someone tell me why the bot said watch my language i cant find what i said
rocky lark
The absolute worst is that Confirm/Cancel are backwards on PC/Switch lol
I mess that up
every time
mossy zinc
Because you said something evil.
formal gust
ok so I just beat 32 heat with guan yu quick spin massive spin athena attack deadly reversal. It was a totally deserved win where RNG played no part in my victory
mossy zinc
No idea.
bronze viper
Grats!
formal gust
that was a major fluke rng was so kind to me
mossy zinc
Lots of people would still die with a good build at 32 Heat. Don't sell yourself short.
rocky lark
Grats mate
bronze viper
I'm slowly building up my skills to where I can complete 48+ with complete jank instead of waiting for the RNG gods to bless me mightily.
bronze viper
I already do AP1 at that point, and my 49 and 50 are AP2
I would prefer they not be that way but I got desperate and irritated.
formal gust
AP hurts my soul
radiant plover
ap?
wanton plover
approval process
mossy zinc
Although, I'm wondering if RI3 isn't easier than FO2 lol. They're both 6 Heat.
formal gust
I would consider it if it didn't show what you couldn't get
but the fact that it does is just cruel
bronze viper
The garbage can.
wanton plover
also grinds my existence
bronze viper
The most appropriate symbol in the history of symbols
mossy zinc
FO1 is pretty chill, though. Not sure about FO1 with RI3, haven't tried that.
radiant plover
what heats should i be turning on early to get used to im already killing elysium is it extreme protocols
mossy zinc
RI2 FO1 maybe. That's more heat than RI3 FO0.
mossy zinc
@radiant plover everything you're not comfortable with until you're comfortable with it? What's the end goal?
wanton plover
UC and BP1 and CF are also ezpz
bronze viper
what heats should i be turning on early to get used to im already killing elysium is it extreme protocols
@radiant plover FO2, EM3/4, BP2, LC4, and the combo of CF2/UC/AP1+ all have a pretty decent learning curve. I wholeheartedly recommend you do not do all of these at the same time when you're learning though lol
mossy zinc
LC4 + Stubborn Defiance if you want to do 40+ at some point.
wanton plover
cf and uc are tougher together yep
radiant plover
i wanna climb as high as i can until my patience is gone lol ive played all the dark souls, dead cells and this game is alot of fun and adds interesting mechanics instead of just more health more damage less heals
bronze viper
Yeah, the difficulty mechanics in this game are the best of any I've ever played
radiant plover
one thats gonna be super hard is the time one ive turned it on and for some reason the first 2 zones really beats me but then i end the final boss with dayssssssssssssss
and i even go through alot of the satyr tunnels i like being op lol
wanton plover
one thing that helped me a lot is to watch others on yt or twitch
bronze viper
With the change to TD2, you really should be able to do this with all builds, at all times. It's kind of the baseline mechanics check, to see if you're doing things efficiently and your build choices are solid
Don't fret if you're not there yet though, improving is half the fun
TD3, appropriately costed at 3 heat, forces you to make a lot of sacrifices
radiant plover
k right now the game is having me do low heat can i bump it up to higher heats and get multiples of titans blood or should i climb at the rate the game tells me too
the only downside i can see is my aspects wouldnt be par
bronze viper
You can't get multiple levels of bounties per run
radiant plover
so just climb the good ol fashioned way lol
bronze viper
Though if you play your cards right, it's totally feasible to get 3.5 blood per run if you run Golden Touch and vendor the Ambrosia
mossy zinc
I mean, you can go higher. It will just give you the bounty of whatever heat you actually needed to do.
bronze viper
And buy the diamond/blood in Styx
radiant plover
i usually have 1200 but honestly he has the diamond like wayyyyyyyyyyyyy more
mossy zinc
If it says 5 Heat and you do 10 Heat, it will give you 5-Heat Bounties.
radiant plover
its like 70/30
bronze viper
Diamond is 0.5 blood
It's not bad
I would say to vendor the diamond but there's a lot of things that cost diamonds, and not very many propechies that grant them, so I'd hold on to those
radiant plover
im at the point that dimonds dont do enough lol i can listen to the songs outside of the game
dim lotus
BP2 sucks!
mossy zinc
Sure you can. They're all on YouTube.
formal gust
BP2 is good
bronze viper
BP2 is the gift that keeps on giving
bronze viper
I'm not even mad anymore if I see Shifter Flamewheels in Erebus. I just smile and take my Onion
wanton plover
🧅
dim lotus
i can handle super theseus. i cant handle super elites all game
formal gust
fo2 em3 mintoaur one shot me 3 times on gy on one of my attempts
with the charge
the aimbot charge
formal gust
this is why athena and poseidon call are must haves so you can avoid this bs
bronze viper
EM3 on Spin Yu is very rough
mossy zinc
Non-EM Asterius's bull charge with FO0 is so difficult to avoid lol.
He's so slow, how do you make him hit anything.
bronze viper
It's like a very slow train chasing after you
And you can't get off the tracks no matter what
vs. FO2 EM3 Asterius being like, a heat seeking Shinkansen
formal gust
spirit tracks gameplay
wanton plover
#highheatproblems
formal gust
the spin is so much harder to dodge than it looks
you can never be too far from that thing
mossy zinc
His spin2win in EM3?
dim lotus
wow, that backstabber fight sucked
mossy zinc
I don't think it's hard to dodge.
formal gust
I hate the sneak one of the hand things grabbed me and I lost a DD
formal gust
the hand things solely exist to be annoying
I like when I dash away and they grab me anyway
dim lotus
is it a good idea to just play hell mode to acclimate vs trying to go from a 16 heat run to 32?
bronze viper
The spin has a pretty forgiving window, you can definitely be slightly touching the spin and not get hit
Very much the opposite of Skullcrushers lol
formal gust
my best heat with spear was like 17