#h1-high-heat-strategies | Supergiant Games | Page 95

wraith imp Oct 2, 2020, 5:34 AM

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HOLD THE PRESSES

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zeus might kinda be strong on chaos shield...just needed jolted?

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lol

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but i'm now starting to think poseidon special + razor shoals might be better combo

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oh my

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sea storm is kinda OP AF on chaos shield. (but it's also UBER OP on zeus shield)

minor rover Oct 2, 2020, 5:40 AM

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pos adds like 70% damage, each shield only does 15 so its 10.5 damage per shield whereas zeus would be 30 damage cuz each strike is 30 damage. Pos might be better for signle target

wraith imp Oct 2, 2020, 5:41 AM

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i now have poseidon on attack (60%), zeus on special, aphro on dash. sea storm (poseidon/zeus), and zeus legendary.

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hmmm...damage is kind of insane.

minor rover Oct 2, 2020, 5:42 AM

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yeah with zeus on special not pos that sounds pretty good

wraith imp Oct 2, 2020, 5:44 AM

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i think razor shoals with poseidon's special is what would make it OP...kind of like how zeus needs jolted with his special to make it strong.

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but...now that i have sea storm and splitting bolt, what is chaos shield adding above and beyond the base shield (zag shield)?

feral sage Oct 2, 2020, 5:49 AM

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it's purple

trim sigil Oct 2, 2020, 5:50 AM

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From the mild look, Chaos shield is now a lot more effective at nuking targets up close, so it's definitely not a nerf but serious rework

feral sage Oct 2, 2020, 5:50 AM

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...yeah that's all I got

minor rover Oct 2, 2020, 5:53 AM

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im still a fan i like the weapon a lot

wraith imp Oct 2, 2020, 5:53 AM

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@trim sigil @minor rover
sure.
But again...going back to my question above...

but...now that i have sea storm and splitting bolt, what is chaos shield adding above and beyond the base shield (zag shield)?

minor rover Oct 2, 2020, 5:53 AM

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like compared to all of the other shields right

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well it still has decent aoe you just need to position weirdly, also cuz of the narrower spread its better at dealing w bosses

wraith imp Oct 2, 2020, 5:55 AM

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when i have an elite build with poseidon/zeus duo and zeus legendary...i don't see how it adds anything over zag shield if i had same build on zag shield

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and i don't recall chaos shield ever struggling with bosses

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if anything, it was always lauded for being too perfect for dealing with bosses with zeus build

trim sigil Oct 2, 2020, 5:56 AM

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You could position yourself in a point of a cone and hit most enemies in the room fine-ish anyway
Ofc it would be a lot less appealing than 6 beyblades slicing the room in pieces

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Also I definitely do not recall chaos being any great on bosses before. (at least compared to CC)

autumn sable Oct 2, 2020, 5:57 AM

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chaos shield has always had issues with dps, that has not really changed so far

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relatively

wraith imp Oct 2, 2020, 5:57 AM

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chaos shield has always had issues with dps, that has not really changed so far
@autumn sable
sure...hence jolted was necessary for zeus builds to be optimal.

autumn sable Oct 2, 2020, 5:58 AM

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even with jolted and T2/3 boons

minor rover Oct 2, 2020, 5:58 AM

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its perfectly fine for most things(up to like 40 heat id say), most players wont ever get up to 50+ heat when you're there beowulf is the shield to take (according to a speedrunning guide)

wraith imp Oct 2, 2020, 5:59 AM

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that's strange to me considering old chaos shield was kind of accepted (via consenseus?) as probably best for 50+ heat

autumn sable Oct 2, 2020, 5:59 AM

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it's still a very safe weapon

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it just requires some aim and planning now

wraith imp Oct 2, 2020, 6:00 AM

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it just requires some aim and planning now
@autumn sable
and some strong boons to overcome dps issues...hence i went with persephone from asphodel on to bolster damage.

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but yeah...old chaos shield was a "fire and forget about it" kinda weapon

minor rover Oct 2, 2020, 6:01 AM

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50+ heat is weird the game changes a lot people seed (not all) etc but even before the nerf people said chaos shield was too slow (dps wise for 50+ heat)

autumn sable Oct 2, 2020, 6:01 AM

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the consensus was always that zeus special needed help from jolted, double strike or splitting bolt to scale well into elysium and styx

wraith imp Oct 2, 2020, 6:02 AM

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@autumn sable
am i off base for thinking that zeus shield is now a superior weapon to 1.0 chaos shield especially for high heat?

autumn sable Oct 2, 2020, 6:03 AM

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but Zeus probably feels worse now that the shield cone is consistent and will hit enemies within a consistent time period

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meaning the special cool down it likely to still be up

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whereas old chaos, the shields could bounce and be staggered with hits

minor rover Oct 2, 2020, 6:04 AM

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Krashercorr do you have specifics on how the cooldown works, ie is it per enemy?

autumn sable Oct 2, 2020, 6:04 AM

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no, I don't, it's definitely at least per enemy

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where it matters

minor rover Oct 2, 2020, 6:05 AM

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so it can proc on two different enemies at the same time?

autumn sable Oct 2, 2020, 6:06 AM

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currently, the new chaos isn't superior to old, at least with old strategies but dunno how many people are particularly interesting in messing around with it right now

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it might proc on two different enemies, but i wouldn't quote me on that, i'd err more towards no than yes

minor rover Oct 2, 2020, 6:09 AM

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hmm thanks, if it can then it should be able to stack up ie if 2 enemies are standing next to one another and it procs on both they should both take damage from 2 bolts cuz it has a small aoe, I'll ask around n try do some testing

autumn sable Oct 2, 2020, 6:09 AM

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but the math from prior is wrong, Zeus special shotgunning on one enemy will be 5x base shield damage + 1x thunder damage

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so, theoretically, a sea storm poseidon special would probably do more damage

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but someone would have to test out just how many thunder procs they can get and if it can proc on multiple enemies, i just haven't tried it

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i think it'll take time to figure out how best to build chaos

minor rover Oct 2, 2020, 6:11 AM

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which maths is incorrect? sea storm plus pos special should be more damage yes

autumn sable Oct 2, 2020, 6:12 AM

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nm, i didn't read it right

minor rover Oct 2, 2020, 6:12 AM

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lol no worries XD

autumn sable Oct 2, 2020, 6:13 AM

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but yes, it's in a tricky spot, the base damage is so low that percentage buffs don't change a ton, even if you can consistently shotgun

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and flat damage bonuses all have some kind of gating mechanic that ignore the shotgun ability

minor rover Oct 2, 2020, 6:15 AM

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im confliced on ares special vs zeus, if zeus can hit mutliple enemies with one lightning bolt and it can proc more than once (on different enemies) it should be much better for rooms

wraith imp Oct 2, 2020, 6:17 AM

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im confliced on ares special vs zeus, if zeus can hit mutliple enemies with one lightning bolt and it can proc more than once (on different enemies) it should be much better for rooms
@minor rover
i think i got it...you're wondering if zeus special on chaos shield can function like rama special with zeus pre-nerf.

minor rover Oct 2, 2020, 6:20 AM

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how did rama work ? XD

wraith imp Oct 2, 2020, 6:32 AM

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pre-nerf rama special with zeus would fire multiple lightning bolts for every use use of rama special. so arrow would proc multiple zeus bolts. it was absurdly overpowered. (i'm kinda surprised SGG didn't realize it? No quality testing maybe before release?) and with relentless volley hammer (+4), that's even more bolts. now imagine that with upgraded double strike.

/someone correct me if i'm wrong.

now rama special fires one bolt per 5 arrows of special.

i tried to find horheristo's video but it seems he removed all his vids from youtube.

static plover Oct 2, 2020, 6:34 AM

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tbf that was during the tech beta period

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Rama changed a fair amount during it

wraith imp Oct 2, 2020, 6:36 AM

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@minor rover
if i'm not mistaken, here's a vid of rama pre-nerf.

watch difference from 3:10 to 5:20.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOOwYSqQQ-g

YouTube

Haelian

Getting our lightning extra THICC with Rama /Hades Blood Price Update/

Come visit us LIVE on twitch http://www.dampdad.com/

Join our discord community for the best memes about twins. https://discord.gg/j7Fa2Mv

http://twitch.tv/haelian/

▶ Play video

minor rover Oct 2, 2020, 6:37 AM

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im kinda asking that but not really, i know that the shield will only proc once per enemy so if you shotgun youll only get one lightning bolt, what i wanna know is that if one shield hits an enemt at the same time another shield does will they both proc lightning, because if so the aoe damage is pretty decent

wraith imp Oct 2, 2020, 6:38 AM

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Yeah, I got that. (I probably didn't communicate my response clearly.)

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rama's special can bounce. so pre-nerf if it hit multiple enemies on 1 use of special, both enemies would get hit by a bolt. watch 6:58 or 7:07 in video above to see it happen.

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you're wondering if that now happens on 1.0 chaos shield for aoe damage with zeus special...kind of like what happens with ares special doom

minor rover Oct 2, 2020, 6:40 AM

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ohhh yeah pretty much XD

wraith imp Oct 2, 2020, 6:40 AM

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i wish i would've paid more attention to the special during my last run...

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i feel like i had the perfect build to answer you question (especially since i had zeus legendary splitting bolt)

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i'll do another run tomorrow and keep an eye out on that.

minor rover Oct 2, 2020, 6:42 AM

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alright thanks a bunch, if i come across anything ill be sure to let u know

wraith imp Oct 2, 2020, 6:42 AM

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yep

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g'night

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@bronze viper i see you typing

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 6:42 AM

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Wow I am struggling lol. FO2 EM4 is intense.

wraith imp Oct 2, 2020, 6:42 AM

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do you have a link to your 49 heat run with rama and explosive 300% hammer upgrade?

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i struggled A LOT using that hammer upgrade. it was shockingly slow even on dash-attack.

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 6:43 AM

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qt4_pQfF-Sg&t=1688s

YouTube

Ledgerdamayn

49 Heat - Rama Aspect (current record) - Blood Price Patch

Re-uploading on this channel. Got extremely lucky--super carried by boons. Black Out is amazing.

▶ Play video

wraith imp Oct 2, 2020, 6:43 AM

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perfect

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 6:43 AM

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Explosive shows up in Elysium

wraith imp Oct 2, 2020, 6:43 AM

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thanks, i'll need to watch that to pick up some tips

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 7:00 AM

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pre-nerf rama special with zeus would fire multiple lightning bolts for every use use of rama special.
That was never a thing in the beta. And it's not a thing in the video you I linked. I don't know how that myth never died.

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 7:01 AM

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Yeah idk, I think streamers may have falsely observed it hitting multiple times when you shoot into packs

wraith imp Oct 2, 2020, 7:02 AM

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maybe i'm not using the right words to explain it but i provided timstamps from haelian's stream.

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 7:02 AM

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I thought it used to do that for a long time

wraith imp Oct 2, 2020, 7:02 AM

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there's a clear example where firing into a witch, bounces into the brute, and both get hit by a bolt.

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 7:03 AM

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That's normal behavior for Thunder Flourish.

wraith imp Oct 2, 2020, 7:03 AM

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is it? i don't get that on my rama zeus specials.

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am i doing something wrong?

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not firing into groups maybe?

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 7:04 AM

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The 200 ms cooldown only applies to single targets. You can hit multiple targets fine. You can't hit the same target multiple times within 200 ms, though.

minor rover Oct 2, 2020, 7:04 AM

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so will the aoe damage multiple targets?

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 7:04 AM

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Yeah, Thunder Flourish is an AoE

minor rover Oct 2, 2020, 7:05 AM

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so technically if grouped thunder flourish does really good dps

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 7:05 AM

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You kind of need HIgh Voltage to make that practical

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It's a very small AoE

minor rover Oct 2, 2020, 7:06 AM

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ok cool thanks

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 7:07 AM

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Man, I guess I practiced the f out of Hades back then lol. That was way cleaner than my average current attempts...

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 7:08 AM

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@wraith imp I think if one bolt hits multiple targets, the CD applies to all of them. So you'd see multiple bolts within 200 ms only if they're far enough apart.

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Yeah, my Hades fights now are really sloppy lol.

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 7:08 AM

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Is that true? I assumed the ICD applied per enemy

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But it's pretty hard to tell lol

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 7:09 AM

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I don't really play aspects that use Thunder Flourish tbh.

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 7:09 AM

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I really like the new Chaos aspect. It's on a list of aspects I'd like to push

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 7:10 AM

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Well, it's per enemy in the sense that one bolt can only hit an enemy every 200 ms?

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 7:10 AM

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It's way worse, don't get me wrong, but my attention span is actually kept since you have to aim and pivot

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So I feel like I play way better lmao

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 7:10 AM

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If it was per arrow, then you could hit 3 enemies that are crowded 3 times within 200 ms. But I'm very sure that's not how it works.

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As in, you'd trigger a bolt on each of them, and all 3 would take damage each time.

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 7:11 AM

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Yeah... I could see how that would be problematic

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 7:13 AM

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At least @wraith imp meant something different here than the common myth that every arrow triggered Thunder Flourish on even a single target. dusa

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Btw did they change Rama volley like it was in the trailer?

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 7:13 AM

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Nope it's identical to Blood Price, at least by feel

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They may have changed the speed by frames, who knows

wraith imp Oct 2, 2020, 7:14 AM

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At least @wraith imp meant something different here than the common myth that every arrow triggered Thunder Flourish on even a single target.
@mossy zinc
Yep. I think Lincoln brought up a good question about how zeus special works in terms of aoe on 1.0 chaos shield. his question reminded me of rama as an analogy.

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 7:15 AM

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Amir knows.

static plover Oct 2, 2020, 7:15 AM

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Amir knows all 👀

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 7:16 AM

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Though seeing the fire speed from the clip @wraith imp posted makes me sad in retrospect. PEW PEW PEW

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 7:16 AM

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Does Amir know how to do 50 Heat with Malphon?

static plover Oct 2, 2020, 7:16 AM

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maybe :3

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 7:16 AM

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If so would he not then be the Queen of Malphon

wraith imp Oct 2, 2020, 7:16 AM

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it would be pretty funny if no one on SGG could do high heat.

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kinda like engineers building f1 cars but not having the skills to drive them

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SHOTS FIRED!

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 7:17 AM

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Amir said during an interview the highest heat on the team was from Darren, and Darren told me in the reddit AMA the other week that his highest is 32.

wraith imp Oct 2, 2020, 7:17 AM

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lol

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I had a suspicion...

keen kettle Oct 2, 2020, 7:19 AM

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Sooooo, i’m as good as the devs at least nice

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 7:19 AM

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Darren did all the music, voiced Zagreus and grinded the highest heat?

wicked bluff Oct 2, 2020, 7:19 AM

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Zagreus and Skelly*

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 7:19 AM

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Dude, take a vacation

keen kettle Oct 2, 2020, 7:20 AM

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Orpheus’ singing voice

minor rover Oct 2, 2020, 7:20 AM

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Darren op pls nerf

wraith imp Oct 2, 2020, 7:21 AM

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@bronze viper
I'm watching your vid right now. Do you play with controller or m&kb? (You movement is pretty damn impressive.) And are you using auto-aim?

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 7:21 AM

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Controller, auto aim

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I like my movement in that one Elysium room where I dash into wall spikes 3 times and barely live lol

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#perfectplay

wraith imp Oct 2, 2020, 7:22 AM

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Hmmm...just watched you beat the butterfly ball mini-boss.

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I'm thinking I should get a controller.

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And maybe I should turn on auto-aim.

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 7:23 AM

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Auto aim is super helpful because of the special. Though to be fair, you can see in the EM3 fight that I whiff like maybe literally 10 times in a row trying to tag Theseus with Drunken Flourish because you can't lead shots with auto aim

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 7:25 AM

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That's a problem with pad, yeah.

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I have that with Charged Flight with some enemies.

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 7:26 AM

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I was being stubborn and trying to special from the center of the stage, I should have gone perpendicular to him, though I hate getting rammed by the stupid chariot

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Oof, whiffing Charged Flight must feel awful

minor rover Oct 2, 2020, 7:28 AM

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so im trying 40+ heat and died in elysium (naturally) is stubborn defiance better? if not running em4 i suppose it is cuz rarely will i die more than once in a room

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 7:28 AM

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At 40? almost certainly

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 7:29 AM

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LC4 + Stubborn Defiance, yeah.

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Lets you take off 4 Heat somewhere else, too.

minor rover Oct 2, 2020, 7:29 AM

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lc doesnt affect stubborn right

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 7:29 AM

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SD starts shining when individual rooms increase in difficulty. You want the buffer to be able to say, tank Chariots or something, and not have to pay gold to fix your mistakes

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 7:29 AM

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Right.

minor rover Oct 2, 2020, 7:29 AM

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thanks a bunch for the heads up

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it doesnt seem all that different from heat 32

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other than FO2

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 7:30 AM

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Yeah, 32->40 was the least noticeable jump for me

minor rover Oct 2, 2020, 7:30 AM

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like 10->32 insane but 32->40 isnt too bad

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 7:31 AM

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Every number above 40, you start feeling it though lol

minor rover Oct 2, 2020, 7:31 AM

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oh yeah definetly

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i just want a 50 heat run w chaos shield

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 7:31 AM

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"just" lol

minor rover Oct 2, 2020, 7:32 AM

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lol ill get there XD eventually

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 7:32 AM

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Do eet

minor rover Oct 2, 2020, 7:32 AM

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TD3 really hasnt been an issue though

wraith imp Oct 2, 2020, 7:32 AM

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@minor rover
then i recommend learning to play with routine inspection3 on td2 first, then working way up js3, and then cp2, and then hl3,4,5

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 7:33 AM

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If you want to be #1 with new chaos aspect and top 6 in high heat, you gotta put in the work.

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 7:33 AM

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With Chaos Shield? At 50 I'd be scared about TD2 lmao

minor rover Oct 2, 2020, 7:33 AM

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routine inspection kekw

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 7:34 AM

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HL is pretty free on Chaos, you should not be getting hit that much. Damage output is definitely the bottleneck

minor rover Oct 2, 2020, 7:35 AM

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i feel like the absolute worst pacts are AP,RI and UC cuz it kinda promotes seeding and im lazy

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 7:35 AM

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Grind all the boss fights with a very very vanilla build + 1 dash + CP2 + HL5 + HS (+DC2 if you plan to turn that on).

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 7:35 AM

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UC is very harmless

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 7:35 AM

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Until you can do them reliably with a minimum loss of HP.

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 7:35 AM

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At least until RI1 AP2 CF2 then it's semi-lethal

minor rover Oct 2, 2020, 7:36 AM

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you guys run CP?

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 7:36 AM

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You have to eventually 😦

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 7:36 AM

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What are you expecting not to run at 50? dusa

minor rover Oct 2, 2020, 7:36 AM

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good point XD

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 7:36 AM

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But no, Chaos Shield should save it for very last

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Besides RI4

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And TD3 lol

minor rover Oct 2, 2020, 7:37 AM

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id rather JS1 than CP1

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 7:37 AM

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The point is to practice all the boss fights at their very worst, without taking too much time, without taking too much damage, with a very basic build because you can't expect more than a very basic build at 50+.

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That will help you with anything in the 40s, too.

minor rover Oct 2, 2020, 7:38 AM

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yeah understandably

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 7:38 AM

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50 Heat is -13, so that's 2 from Ri4, and 3 from TD3, so you have 8 flex heat.

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2 of that is most certainly CP1/2, which lets you cut some combination of RI3, EM4, JSx, or FOx

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 7:40 AM

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No matter how much practice you have, once you get to EM3 or Hades at a WR Heat or somewhere up there in the 50s, you'll be very nervous and play what feels like a lot worse than during your worst practice attempts.

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So grinding those fights is super important.

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I'd grind MM fights, too. At least the ones you don't plan to just bypass with a summon.

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 7:41 AM

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My suspicion is that Chaos in no universe has the DPS to burn through the minibosses in EM4

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So really, you have 2 flex heat lol

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spend wisely?

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 7:42 AM

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I'm glad at least that more people are wisening up to the fact that Chaos Aspect has poor DPS. dusa

minor rover Oct 2, 2020, 7:43 AM

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i vow to somehow win 50 heat with chaos shield

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 7:43 AM

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It's def possible, the heat spread I described is reasonable

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Lol, maybe hit up @proud jay for Haelian's double epic Zeus seed

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 7:44 AM

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The main issue for me now is just finding the time to practice at all. That's why I don't even bother with high heat at the moment.

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Or maybe hit up @cedar spire for haelian's seed? lol

minor rover Oct 2, 2020, 7:45 AM

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that actually sounds great

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thanks

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 7:45 AM

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I tried that, he didn't respond lol

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 7:45 AM

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He doesn't respond to sub-50s, I guess. dusa

proud jay Oct 2, 2020, 7:45 AM

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It' available on his discord

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 7:45 AM

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What a diva.

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 7:45 AM

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Holy cow he has a discord? dusa

minor rover Oct 2, 2020, 7:46 AM

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he does?

proud jay Oct 2, 2020, 7:46 AM

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Doesn't everyonr

minor rover Oct 2, 2020, 7:46 AM

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lmao

fair yacht Oct 2, 2020, 7:46 AM

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Hey all, just starting to go for a 32 Heat clear and I was wondering, do you end up getting used to Forced Overtime lvl 2 or does it just create unreactable windows for some enemies?

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Provided that you're playing a melee weapon

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 7:46 AM

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Both

fair yacht Oct 2, 2020, 7:47 AM

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So you learn to play around it I guess?

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 7:47 AM

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EM3 and 4 for melee weapons definitely have... issues with FO2

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But it's totally manageable 99% of the time

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Barring something stupid like Shifter or Speeder Chariots

chrome bramble Oct 2, 2020, 7:48 AM

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i wouldnt wanna face EM4 with FO2, sounds turboscary

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 7:48 AM

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I started practicing it on Eris today

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I'm at 20 heat, with a kind of busted setup, and getting my teeth repeatedly kicked in

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So that's good.

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 7:49 AM

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I have issues i-framing on reaction err... Speeder Greatshields, Elite Wringers, and um . . . Speeder Giant Rats. I think that's it.

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With FO2.

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But Wringers are predictable.

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 7:49 AM

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Turbo-Dad has some very bs windups on his new attacks lol

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 7:49 AM

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I still haven't done EM4.

chrome bramble Oct 2, 2020, 7:50 AM

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wish we had a document where people share their high heat builds || for me to steal || 😔

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 7:50 AM

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No such thing

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At sufficiently high heat, your "build" is really seed + boon

trim sigil Oct 2, 2020, 7:50 AM

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there is one build to steal
nemesis sword
heartbreak strike

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:)

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 7:50 AM

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I think they moved the one Giant Rat that would just immediately bite you in the minichamber back a bit. Like, way before you could react if it had Speeder + FO2 lol.

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 7:51 AM

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And below that threshold, you can do a lot of things and still make it work

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 7:51 AM

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Or maybe I just recognize the chamber immediately and dash away because I've been hit so much by it.

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 7:51 AM

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I know the one you're referring to lol

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I dont' know if it's still like that

chrome bramble Oct 2, 2020, 7:51 AM

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i guess 😔 i just suck with recognizing synergies and coming up with builds. got all weapons on 20 heat soon but im not really playing much new stuff

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and afterwards i wanna go for really high heat cuz no more rewards

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 7:51 AM

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I did F10 it, so I hope they fixed it lol.

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 7:52 AM

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Also there are so few 40+ players that are grinding right now that there isn't a "standard" for anything. We're all pioneers

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Just figuring stuff out as we go

fair yacht Oct 2, 2020, 7:53 AM

#

Well let us all know when you hit a breakthrough 😆

minor rover Oct 2, 2020, 7:53 AM

#

ok heat 50+ TD3 is kinda rough

chrome bramble Oct 2, 2020, 7:53 AM

#

weird2

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 7:53 AM

#

My "newbie build guide" is honestly just high heat meta except we know what Duo Boons to get with the combo, what hammers to get, and some of the aspects are a bit different from the base aspect. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2233472883

Steam Community :: Guide :: Newbie Build Guide

Simple guide with tried-and-true builds for every base weapon (without any upgrades) to get you started—from one of Hades's top players....

chrome bramble Oct 2, 2020, 7:54 AM

#

ye ive read that one

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 7:56 AM

#

@minor rover if you want to test a build for TD3, turn on JS3 CP2 DC2 FO2 and either EM2 or EM3 depending on what you're planning to run. Then make minor changes from there to your build or take points off pacts you see don't work at all.

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 7:56 AM

#

If you're testing Chaos Aspect, don't bother wasting the time lol. Starting testing with TD2

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 7:57 AM

#

Aspect.

#

All shield aspects are Chaos Shield. Only one aspect is Chaos Aspect. dusa

#

I've zero experience with the new aspect. Maybe there's some good high DPS combo now that you can just shotgun enemies?

minor rover Oct 2, 2020, 7:58 AM

#

I think ill just practice on heat 50 I tend to do better when i familiarize myself with things lol, JS3 AND CP2 seen really difficult with chaos and TD3 XD

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 7:59 AM

#

I know that for Beowulf TD2 JS3 CP2 DC2 I had to look into some new playstyles to make it work pre-1.0.

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 7:59 AM

#

Might want to learn how to swim before crossing the English Channel

minor rover Oct 2, 2020, 7:59 AM

#

you can shotgun nicely, the dps kinda holds up like you could do tartarus with a minute-ish to spare

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 8:00 AM

#

The point, anyway, was that you'll get a very deep understanding of what's holding you back if you test run TD3 like that a lot.

minor rover Oct 2, 2020, 8:00 AM

#

shotgunning super close bounces the shield back to you instantly so you can charge again and then shotgun again

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 8:00 AM

#

And what builds can work or not, so you know which gods to avoid or go for etc.

minor rover Oct 2, 2020, 8:00 AM

#

i do appreciate the assistance btw

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 8:01 AM

#

Np. And if that interaction is good enough, you may considering seeding for Sudden Rush or the +damage to armor hammer. I'd be skeptical that the damage would be better than the absurd Zeus seed that Haelian found, but yeah.

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 8:01 AM

#

Minicharges should speed up your DPS over full charges, assuming you hit.

#

Minicharges are pretty important with Beowulf.

#

But you get way more off that with Beowulf's cast rush.

#

I say "cast rush" because both the Bull Rush and the actual Dragon Rush can have cast explosions at the end.

minor rover Oct 2, 2020, 8:03 AM

#

lol feels bad AP killed my breaching rush

fair yacht Oct 2, 2020, 8:03 AM

#

Do you high heat veterans have any tips for which bow aspects are most viable?

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 8:03 AM

#

Rama and Zag

#

Sub maybe lowish 40s, they're all probably about equally though, honestly

fair yacht Oct 2, 2020, 8:04 AM

#

I probably won't make it that far haha

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 8:04 AM

#

So yeah, the world is your bowster

fair yacht Oct 2, 2020, 8:04 AM

#

:v

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 8:05 AM

#

I think it's still way too early to say which are "most" viable because the changes have been pretty big. Rama and Zag are tried and true from before 1.0, anyway, so you definitely can't go wrong with them.

minor rover Oct 2, 2020, 8:05 AM

#

the speed runners like hera

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 8:05 AM

#

Yeah, they worked at 49 before, and they both got buffed like crazy, so... it stands to reason that they should still be the best options

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 8:05 AM

#

Hera definitely falls behind at whatever heat you have to add RI3 because losing Infernal/Stygian Soul hurts Hera a ton more.

#

Maybe not best, but definitely very good regardless.

#

I don't think any bow is bad now, at least from what I've gathered from people.

#

I still only play Zag bow lol.

fair yacht Oct 2, 2020, 8:06 AM

#

Mostly I've been prioritizing boons and hammers for Special modifiers and using it like a shotgun, but as I'm starting to push into the late 20's it's feeling less and less viable

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 8:07 AM

#

Mostly to learn how to handle base bow better.

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 8:07 AM

#

As you mentioned, the 2 heat from Hera makes it hard to compete. Chiron I am suspicious of, mostly because it does not perform well with AP2

#

You need way too many boons

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 8:07 AM

#

You only need Attack and Special, no? Seems somewhat similar to Rama.

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 8:08 AM

#

Right, but my 49 in Blood Price had like, the thickest blessing from RNGsus. 1.0 Rama can get away with Twin Shot + Heartbreak or Deadly I'm pretty sure

mystic apex Oct 2, 2020, 8:09 AM

#

Are there any videos of high heat beowulf gameplay for v1.0? I can only find any-heat runs

#

I know the speedrunning community for this is small so answer's probably no lol

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 8:10 AM

#

Gameplay from Blood Price should still be valid, just imagine the numbers are 40% smaller

mystic apex Oct 2, 2020, 8:10 AM

#

ah I mean I'm looking for cast-based gameplay

#

since it's all charged flight before release

#

horheristo might've had one in the spreadsheet? but his channel was hacked last time I checked

autumn sable Oct 2, 2020, 8:12 AM

#

his channel is back up, and he's the only one who did a cast run

mystic apex Oct 2, 2020, 8:12 AM

#

it looks like all his videos are private still unfortunately

autumn sable Oct 2, 2020, 8:13 AM

#

nm then

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 8:16 AM

#

I only recorded my 2 early clears with Beowulf, unfortunately. Way before I started actually using its full toolset.

mystic apex Oct 2, 2020, 8:17 AM

#

no worries, I'm still learning things from watching the any-heat runs since cast beowulf seems popular for all weapons runs right now

#

would be cool to see runs where they don't steamroll all the game mechanics tho haha

autumn sable Oct 2, 2020, 8:18 AM

#

the v1.0 any heat runs are still worth looking at since they feature a lot of really new beowulf tech that would still be applicable at high heat

mystic apex Oct 2, 2020, 8:18 AM

#

yeah for sure

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 8:18 AM

#

Always good to steal tech from speedrunners, yeah. Just gotta be mindful that your builds at high heat will typically look very different.

autumn sable Oct 2, 2020, 8:18 AM

#

someone just has to figure out how to make it work around heat

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 8:18 AM

#

E.g., they won't care for having Drunken Strike or Lightning Strike to deal with DC. Things like that.

mystic apex Oct 2, 2020, 8:19 AM

#

how 2 summon the Tailesque of post-charged-flight beowulf thanthink

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 8:20 AM

#

I know how to make it work. I just don't get the opportunity to play.

autumn sable Oct 2, 2020, 8:20 AM

#

just do what he did and play one aspect over increments of 1 heat for like...3 months

mystic apex Oct 2, 2020, 8:21 AM

#

@mossy zinc it be like that sometimes, hope things clear up

#

I asked a build question after pinging you in the combat channel btw, IDK if you saw it

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 8:22 AM

#

I did not.

mystic apex Oct 2, 2020, 8:23 AM

#

I can repost it in that channel if you're not busy?

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 8:23 AM

#

Can you recommend any other fun builds for Beowulf besides Aphro cast?
I tried Trippy Flare with Stygian Soul and that was decent after I got my second bloodstone, wondering what else I can play around with

#

Hm.

mystic apex Oct 2, 2020, 8:23 AM

#

to be clear I'm not asking for high heat haha

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 8:24 AM

#

I don't play Stygian Soul with it. Never would pick that.

mystic apex Oct 2, 2020, 8:24 AM

#

I stole the idea from wriste

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 8:24 AM

#

Well, practically all of my experience is from 41, 52, and 56 Heat attempts/clears lol.

#

I think I did 2 somewhere between 27–35.

mystic apex Oct 2, 2020, 8:25 AM

#

gotcha

#

well I saw your old messages about getting aphro, zeus and athena

#

just wondering what else works well

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 8:26 AM

#

Most of my runs had RI3, so only 1 Infernal Soul cast.

#

3 Infernal Soul vs 1 Stygian Soul, Infernal Soul wins easily.

#

I've had Thunder Flare and Ice Flare or whatever they're called sometimes, and they were quite alright.

mystic apex Oct 2, 2020, 8:28 AM

#

huh I didn't think zeus cast would work well

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 8:28 AM

#

Phalanx Flare always seemed very underwhelming.

mystic apex Oct 2, 2020, 8:28 AM

#

how about artemis?

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 8:29 AM

#

Hunter's Flare AOE is nice, but the damage is kind of lacking? Should get better with t2 and stuff, though, but you wouldn't get that at very high heats.

mystic apex Oct 2, 2020, 8:29 AM

#

makes sense

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 8:30 AM

#

Keep in mind I didn't look too much into the numbers. I just went with what I got with AP2 and tried to make the most of it at 56. Had to deal with DC2 etc.

mystic apex Oct 2, 2020, 8:31 AM

#

that's a problem for future me to deal with squirtnya

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 8:31 AM

#

I know Weak on Cast and Special always worked better for me than anything else.

#

Attack I wanted Hangover or Chain Lightning on for DC2, but lower heat I find Weak just works the best again. But Deadly Strike + Heart Rend can be nice.

tardy path Oct 2, 2020, 8:33 AM

#

Which weapon are we talking aboot?

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 8:33 AM

#

Beowulf.

tardy path Oct 2, 2020, 8:33 AM

#

Ahh yes Aphro on cast then

mystic apex Oct 2, 2020, 8:33 AM

#

speaking of weak special, IDK if you remember but you were giving beowulf build advice to someone else a while ago and recommended getting the special with aphro keepsake first before getting the attack and cast

tardy path Oct 2, 2020, 8:33 AM

#

But Zeus or dio on atack?

mystic apex Oct 2, 2020, 8:33 AM

#

why special first?

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 8:34 AM

#

Because that just worked the best for me? I guess you can just easily one-shot things safely from afar, and Infernal Gates are kinda free that way in Tartarus.

#

Unless you get very unlucky with Flamewheels or something.

mystic apex Oct 2, 2020, 8:35 AM

#

gotcha, I didn't know the raw special was worth using tbh

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 8:35 AM

#

You want to make sure you have Heartbreak Flourish in case you find Charged Flight along the way, anyway.

mystic apex Oct 2, 2020, 8:35 AM

#

I see I see

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 8:35 AM

#

Yeah, I'd use the entire toolset whether I have Charged Flight or not.

mystic apex Oct 2, 2020, 8:36 AM

#

do you think trippy flare is ever worth it?

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 8:36 AM

#

I don't think so, no.

#

But maybe you figure something out with Duos or whatever. Just because it doesn't work at 50+ doesn't mean you can't get super strong builds with it on low heats.

#

I mean, it's not that bad. The stun AOE is very nice.

#

But not getting to spam cast-loaded mini rushes on bosses and stuff would be bad for DPS.

mystic apex Oct 2, 2020, 8:38 AM

#

yeah I could see how that'd be a problem

#

I had the reduced damage in festive fog boon on my trippy flare run and it was like a janky excalibur aura, that was fun lol

edgy arrow Oct 2, 2020, 8:39 AM

#

i did EM4 FO2 with trippy flare

#

but now I've switched to running aphro and it just seems better tbh

mystic apex Oct 2, 2020, 8:40 AM

#

was FO2 hard to deal with on cast beowulf?

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 8:46 AM

#

Not really, no. I wouldn't call it "Cast Beowulf", that sounds like the focus is just cast.

#

Or were you talking to ohokwy? lol

mystic apex Oct 2, 2020, 8:47 AM

#

oh yeah just cuz he mentioned FO2 lol

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 8:47 AM

#

I had the reduced damage in festive fog boon on my trippy flare run and it was like a janky excalibur aura, that was fun lol
See, Passion Flare just immediately applies Weak to everything that's hit, no need to stay in that aura for damage reduction.

mystic apex Oct 2, 2020, 8:48 AM

#

yeah that's definitely better, it was just funny how it the stun and damage reduction worked kinda similarly to aura

#

and I thought the focus was just casting actually, lol

#

can you expand on that?

#

at least in the any heat runs I've been watching, they just spam cast and rush

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 8:51 AM

#

Yeah, because they don't have to deal with BP2 and stuff, they don't care much about taking damage.

mystic apex Oct 2, 2020, 8:53 AM

#

yeah that makes sense, that's exactly why I wanted to see it at high heat (and without charged flight)

#

I figured it would look very different

edgy arrow Oct 2, 2020, 8:56 AM

#

was FO2 hard to deal with on cast beowulf?
FO2 is a problem with every setup, but its pretty much always one you can learn to deal with eventually

#

or at least, that's what i'm hoping lmao

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 8:58 AM

#

FO2 is both a matter of practice/experience and just having good reactions tbh.

#

Having good reactions will always make things like that easier.

tardy path Oct 2, 2020, 8:58 AM

#

I'd say its just reaction time at one point

#

But I just suck so what do I know dusa

edgy arrow Oct 2, 2020, 8:59 AM

#

same tbh

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 9:00 AM

#

Eh, I probably have some of the best reactions among Hades players, but I end up relying "too much" on them sometimes where other players play a lot safer and in some cases more effectively because of it lol.

#

Positioning and stuff is at least as important.

#

input lag is a big factor. I wouldn't want to try FO2 on my parents' living room TV that doesn't have anything like a gaming mode and adds horrible amounts of lag.

mystic apex Oct 2, 2020, 9:01 AM

#

what are some of the big gameplay differences for beowulf at high heat? less casting and more...?

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 9:02 AM

#

Can't tell you differences if I don't play or watch low heat lol.

#

More throws, I guess?

mystic apex Oct 2, 2020, 9:03 AM

#

lol fair

viscid fulcrum Oct 2, 2020, 9:41 AM

#

I'm honestly too scared to do EM4, still stuck at 32 rn.

shell sluice Oct 2, 2020, 9:42 AM

#

I do it for the giggle

viscid fulcrum Oct 2, 2020, 9:42 AM

#

It's just... going blind ya feel.

shell sluice Oct 2, 2020, 9:42 AM

#

And he thrashed me in phase 1

viscid fulcrum Oct 2, 2020, 9:42 AM

#

Nothing intills more panic than not being able to see.

shell sluice Oct 2, 2020, 9:42 AM

#

That double circle is hard to dodge

viscid fulcrum Oct 2, 2020, 9:43 AM

#

40 heat here I come

#

Don't hurt me too bad I have a future shadegrief

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 9:44 AM

#

Stuck at 32, but doing 40?

edgy arrow Oct 2, 2020, 9:46 AM

#

you never know, maybe there's a point where it becomes easier again? thanthink

trim sigil Oct 2, 2020, 9:46 AM

#

Completing 32 and not being able to go higher is being stuck at 32, too

viscid fulcrum Oct 2, 2020, 9:46 AM

#

Yeah I did 32 and got the statue

#

33 sounds lame so I'm going for an even number

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 9:47 AM

#

Poor 33.

#

Skipped by practically everyone.

edgy arrow Oct 2, 2020, 9:47 AM

#

oh yeah actually do 33

#

you'd prolly become the world champion 33 heat speedrunner by default

viscid fulcrum Oct 2, 2020, 9:48 AM

#

thanthink

#

New category inc

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 9:49 AM

#

The problem with setting new WRs in new categories is that bablo will come and steal your record within a day or two.

tardy path Oct 2, 2020, 9:49 AM

#

Lmao pretty much

edgy arrow Oct 2, 2020, 9:49 AM

#

well, at least you'd have a day of fame

viscid fulcrum Oct 2, 2020, 9:49 AM

#

Just make a separate category for em

edgy arrow Oct 2, 2020, 9:49 AM

#

having a record stolen by bablo is a pretty good flex tbh

viscid fulcrum Oct 2, 2020, 9:49 AM

#

Like TAS

tardy path Oct 2, 2020, 9:49 AM

#

Bablo%

#

Pffft

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 9:51 AM

#

bablo be holding 70% or something of the WRs in Hades and then get mad when people say he's the best Hades player lol.

tardy path Oct 2, 2020, 9:52 AM

#

So humble

trim sigil Oct 2, 2020, 9:52 AM

#

There is a myth that if you run AP2 there is 50/50 chance to save the record from tyranny of bablo

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 9:52 AM

#

Nah, bablo has claimed all the good AP2 RNG for himself.

static plover Oct 2, 2020, 9:53 AM

#

there is no good AP2 RNG, there is just sadness

trim sigil Oct 2, 2020, 9:53 AM

#

There is what you need and what makes you pensive, yes

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 9:54 AM

#

Man... I forgot I only had 4 boons at the end on 52 Heat lol.

#

Mind you, one of them was Epic Greatest Reflex lol. But still.

tardy path Oct 2, 2020, 9:55 AM

#

Is there like a point to Heroic Greatest reflex?

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 9:55 AM

#

Sure.

trim sigil Oct 2, 2020, 9:55 AM

#

Allll the dashes.

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 9:55 AM

#

It's +1 Dash better than Epic Greatest Reflex.

tardy path Oct 2, 2020, 9:56 AM

#

Like do you really Need all those dashes

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 9:56 AM

#

Apparently not for 52 lol.

trim sigil Oct 2, 2020, 9:56 AM

#

(granted having more than 3 usually makes me choke on dodges)

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 9:56 AM

#

Nor 54.

#

Maybe for 55?

trim sigil Oct 2, 2020, 9:56 AM

#

Not for 57 either

#

Maybe 63....

edgy arrow Oct 2, 2020, 9:57 AM

#

actually you need 10 dashes for 63

#

its mostly lack of dashes preventing the max heat clear

#

pretty sure

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 9:57 AM

#

Not for 57 maybe if you fully route the run. dusa

trim sigil Oct 2, 2020, 9:57 AM

#

That's the job for gil then

edgy arrow Oct 2, 2020, 9:57 AM

#

wait, gil can get to 10?

#

that's ridiculous lmao

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 9:58 AM

#

It starts with 4 Dashes.

#

Well.

#

4 Dashes with Greater Reflex.

trim sigil Oct 2, 2020, 9:58 AM

#

Mmm, i don't think so but it's still closer to 10 than anything

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 9:58 AM

#

So RI3+, you'd have 3 dashes only.

#

Heroic is +4.

#

So 7–8 Dashes.

#

The Dashes aren't all that great for i-framing.

trim sigil Oct 2, 2020, 9:59 AM

#

(honestly just give zagreus blade +1 dash, ez best sword aspect)

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 9:59 AM

#

But they're why I think the aspect is currently the best for ME builds.

#

Especially, getting ME + Breaching Cross is just totally busted on the aspect lol. Everything just melts even faster than you're used to from ME.

#

I'm pretty sure the dashes also happen faster, so that's even better for ME.

#

I have a small hope they'll still make some minor adjustments to Rail 4 and Fists 4 before they say their farewells to the game.

#

Those 2 aspects have had the fewest changes of any aspect after player feedback. But they've probably had the most negative feedback out of the hidden aspects?

#

Practically everyone likes Excalibur, Guan Yu got a few tweaks here and there, Rama had many tweaks and is well liked, Beowulf had some very minor tweaks (and a Charged Flight nerf) but is well liked otherwise.

#

Lucifer I've seen so many complaints about the Special being near unusable for a lot of people from the start, all the builds just ignore it and honestly ignore the ramping damage on Attack, too, by just going Lightning Strike.

#

And Fists 4 got overwhelming feedback that the Special doesn't work/is unusable/whatever.

trim sigil Oct 2, 2020, 10:18 AM

#

To be fair, that's natural given both are somewhat later additions

#

But yeah, these are all commonly discussed troubles

#

~~would have added GY not paying off for the halved health but that's more of personal disappointment than anything~~

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 10:20 AM

#

Yeah, but I'm worried if they're still changing anything like that? I don't know if they're only focused on technical fixes now or not. Kinda hard to tell tbh.

trim sigil Oct 2, 2020, 10:20 AM

#

I'm almost sure they will touch up on balance, because there was a bunch of content added

#

Will be bold to keep it in without a revision from public

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 10:21 AM

#

I hope so. But 1.0 is different from earlier patches lol. So it's kinda new for everyone. dusa

forest lichen Oct 2, 2020, 10:28 AM

#

shadow clone jutsu on those little bomber things is
so insane

#

not hard but insane

#

there's bombs everywhere

keen kettle Oct 2, 2020, 10:31 AM

#

athena deflect can deflect bombs as well

#

including their martyrdom bombs

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 11:03 AM

#

lol I remember seeing those the first few times.

#

You'll learn to pick out the real ones fast with practice, so they go down very fast and the clones don't get to do much.

#

They can be quite deadly sometimes, though, especially on Hell mode with Personal Liability and in certain mob combos or chambers that don't allow you to deal with them quickly.

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 1:14 PM

#

Lmao, we can create a movement to F10 bomb Fist4 and Lucifer feedback in the Test Branch

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 1:15 PM

#

Can we? dusa

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 1:17 PM

#

I feel like it's probably not intensely in the spirit of the test branch, but yeah I'm kind of concerned Lucifer in particular will kind of just get left behind. A lot of people come in saying "wow Lucifer best aspect" when what they mean is "I either don't have enough blood to invest into Eris or I'm too lazy to manage bombs to play Eris." At least Fist4 does something the other fists can't

#

The coolest parts of Lucifer are either totally ignored because they're awkward and unrewarding, or pointless because Lightning Strike does more damage than the ramp anyway

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 1:22 PM

#

lol

#

In my mind, Fists 4 is just Aspect of ME and nothing else.

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 1:23 PM

#

It's better than Aspect of Start-up Time on my Attack

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 1:23 PM

#

Why would you build anything else when you have 4 dashes?

random bough Oct 2, 2020, 1:27 PM

#

can you reliably get both divine flourish and divine dash though

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 1:27 PM

#

Sure.

#

Maybe not with AP2. But otherwise, sure.

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 1:28 PM

#

Make sure to get Flourish first though, unless you really want to just slap Dad around with Merciful End and no one else

random bough Oct 2, 2020, 1:28 PM

#

Using the flourish for ME is quite weird

#

Also isnt ruthless reflex better with the aspect?

forest lichen Oct 2, 2020, 1:29 PM

#

doing heat 50 right now
once i learn not to dash into spikes it's over for you

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 1:29 PM

#

lol, I don't use is, especially because Fist4 has the off chance that you could accidentally do it out of a dash, then you die randomly kappa

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 1:29 PM

#

@forest lichen so you're saying you keep dying in Tartarus lol.

forest lichen Oct 2, 2020, 1:29 PM

#

yes

#

and pretty much every time because i dash into spikes

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 1:30 PM

#

Ruthless Reflex would be better assuming that you're not Merciful End, so if they tweak the aspect to like... do what it's supposed to, yes, Ruthless would be insane

#

As it stands it's a huge DPS loss for ME

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 1:30 PM

#

More dashes = more damage, yeah.

random bough Oct 2, 2020, 1:30 PM

#

So attack dash strike x 3 times instead of 4 is the dps loss?

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 1:31 PM

#

That's 25%....

random bough Oct 2, 2020, 1:31 PM

#

I mean if ruthless reflex kicks in there's some increase

#

It's also one of the few things that increases maim damage

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 1:31 PM

#

It's a hard if. Also Fist4's dashes are baby dashes

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 1:31 PM

#

Maim is irrelevant, unfortunately.

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 1:32 PM

#

Maim is worse than irrelevant, unfortunately.

random bough Oct 2, 2020, 1:32 PM

#

oh yeah we never use the special lol

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 1:32 PM

#

With ME, you're losing DPS by using Maim, I'd bet. thanthink

#

Would be interesting to parse.

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 1:32 PM

#

I don't want to know how much a Maim'd HL5 Slugger Numbskull does to you

random bough Oct 2, 2020, 1:32 PM

#

I really like the attack because of how hard it hits though

#

But the dash strike is so bad in comparison

#

It's one of the few weapons where I notice how worse the dash strike damage is

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 1:33 PM

#

The dash strike is insanely fast, so I guess they didn't want people just holding Attack + Dash permanently to win?

#

(womp womp)

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 1:34 PM

#

I think Aspect of ME + Stubborn Roots could be the optimal build for RI4 any heat, in theory.

random bough Oct 2, 2020, 1:35 PM

#

Two duos with RI4 huh

static plover Oct 2, 2020, 1:36 PM

#

there's means to help fish for them

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 1:36 PM

#

Well, hey, some people said 57 fully-routed with 3 Duo Boons was basically the same as any seeded run because you could just keep doing runs until you get lucky. dusa

uncut wigeon Oct 2, 2020, 1:37 PM

#

🙏

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 1:37 PM

#

It's not really viable with AP2. As in, the odds of getting that are way too low.

uncut wigeon Oct 2, 2020, 1:38 PM

#

To Nyaa, do you still take Chaod gates with LC4 and SD?

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 1:38 PM

#

Yes.

#

You can easily heal up in the next chamber, usually.

uncut wigeon Oct 2, 2020, 1:39 PM

#

Also what was the pick order for Merciful End?

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 1:39 PM

#

Sometimes you die in the next chamber. It be like that lol.

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 1:39 PM

#

Curse of Agony -> Divine Flourish -> Divine Dash

uncut wigeon Oct 2, 2020, 1:39 PM

#

Vial in tartarus and then owl, right?

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 1:39 PM

#

Yeah.

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 1:39 PM

#

If you REALLY want to be sure to get ME, you can swap Flourish for Curse, but your damage will be ding dongs

uncut wigeon Oct 2, 2020, 1:40 PM

#

Havent been able to play im a few days

#

This LC4, FO2 nonsense is hilarious though. Its kinda fun how crazy the game is tbis way

patent umbra Oct 2, 2020, 1:42 PM

#

Wait, I'm confused and maybe fundamentally misunderstand ME. Why swap Curse of Agony for Divine Strike? Don't you still need CoA to put the Doom effect on the target?

#

Or are you not saying swap but take Divine Strike as a last resort for getting ME?

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 1:44 PM

#

Should be Divine Dash instead of Strike. Typo.

patent umbra Oct 2, 2020, 1:44 PM

#

Okay, that makes more sense. Thanks!

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 1:44 PM

#

Fixed, my b

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 1:45 PM

#

This LC4, FO2 nonsense is hilarious though. Its kinda fun how crazy the game is tbis way
What do you mean? lol

#

That's how I normally play. Add TD3 for extra fun.

uncut wigeon Oct 2, 2020, 1:45 PM

#

Im gonna work my way up to 40 heat

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 1:45 PM

#

Work it

uncut wigeon Oct 2, 2020, 1:46 PM

#

But figurd the best way to practice is to set up the key cobditions thsg make it hard.

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 1:46 PM

#

Yep. BP2 for good measure

uncut wigeon Oct 2, 2020, 1:46 PM

#

Dont know if I'l try 50. Feel like 50 requires research and getting the right seeds

#

Yeah, I posted my settings for it a few days ago.

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 1:46 PM

#

Lol, 50 is not reasonable. there are still single digits of people who have done it period.

uncut wigeon Oct 2, 2020, 1:46 PM

#

Its 24 heat that makes the core of high heat difficulty

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 1:47 PM

#

50 requires research, practice, seeding, and most importantly and most irritatingly, patience for AP2

#

You don't need AP2 for 50, but 5 heat is 5 heat

uncut wigeon Oct 2, 2020, 1:47 PM

#

So with the rail hammer seed foe rocket

#

Which is the best weapon with it?

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 1:48 PM

#

Eris

uncut wigeon Oct 2, 2020, 1:48 PM

#

Alrighty then, lets try it

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 1:48 PM

#

Hestia wants Ricochet too much, and Zag wants Spread Fire

uncut wigeon Oct 2, 2020, 1:49 PM

#

Cool cool

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 1:54 PM

#

The real fun is adding TD3 JS3 CP2 DC2 and figuring out how to beat that reliably with AP2 and RI3. That was my world at the end of summer break, just with pre-1.0 TD2 instead of TD3 now lol.

uncut wigeon Oct 2, 2020, 1:55 PM

#

I have good streak of masochism. Dont know that its there yet though

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 1:56 PM

#

Nyaa is one of the rare gifted few who can self-flagellate with AP2 and smile through it

proud jay Oct 2, 2020, 2:03 PM

#

reliability and AP2 don't fit in the same sentence

static plover Oct 2, 2020, 2:05 PM

#

AP2 is reliably evil and unforgiving :3

#

what do you mean, they totes belong in the same sentence klinkOP

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 2:06 PM

#

Well, should probably add that I like AP2 with a good seed.

#

Or with Malphon where the seed doesn't matter too much unless you go way up in heat.

proud jay Oct 2, 2020, 2:09 PM

#

Unseeded is the real deal so we get rid of the routed/unrouted issue

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 2:13 PM

#

https://imgur.com/a/F6Zc2rt

Imgur

proud jay Oct 2, 2020, 2:14 PM

#

@bronze viper how do you like rama atm

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 2:14 PM

#

It feels great

#

"unlocking" Twin Shot was a big deal

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 2:15 PM

#

I'm fine with unseeded, too. That's what I wanted from the start, but everyone was like "nooo we all seed, it's the only way."

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 2:16 PM

#

The issue that the game doesn't distinguish between the two... so you may as well seed, why handicap your highest heat runs

proud jay Oct 2, 2020, 2:18 PM

#

speedrunning scene has made a big move towards unseeded

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 2:18 PM

#

Yeah, I saw that.

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 2:18 PM

#

It would be pretty easy to just make a thing you could interact with in the courtyard that would just reset your seed to make that playstyle supported and verifiable

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 2:19 PM

#

Speedrunners now just have you record your previous death/victory, too, to prove the seed was random.

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 2:19 PM

#

Yeah, I figured. A little awkward but it's the best we got

proud jay Oct 2, 2020, 2:19 PM

#

yeah

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 2:20 PM

#

Could probably stitch a video for that, too, but it's good enough, I think.

proud jay Oct 2, 2020, 2:20 PM

#

you could always stitch a video for any speedrun ever

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 2:21 PM

#

Lmao, take video of victory screen, or press Select before death, then go to security log, then start run

#

Ezpz

minor rover Oct 2, 2020, 2:21 PM

#

is that an issue in the community like fake speed runs?

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 2:22 PM

#

It has been an issue, yes, but not prolific

minor rover Oct 2, 2020, 2:22 PM

#

wooooow

proud jay Oct 2, 2020, 2:22 PM

#

it happens a lot in speedrunning scene in general

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 2:23 PM

#

There was one person who stitched together a 53 Heat and a 48 Heat run.

static plover Oct 2, 2020, 2:23 PM

#

The amount of people who splice runs is significantly less than you would think

proud jay Oct 2, 2020, 2:23 PM

#

there's a bunch of famous youtube videos (and even documentaries) about it

static plover Oct 2, 2020, 2:23 PM

#

Doesn't mean it doesn't hapoen though

proud jay Oct 2, 2020, 2:23 PM

#

yeah the thing is that even 1 spliced run out of 100 hurts

minor rover Oct 2, 2020, 2:24 PM

#

oh wow, interesting ive never been interested in speed runs

#

until now obviously

proud jay Oct 2, 2020, 2:24 PM

#

the spliced high heat runs weren't really speedruns but it's still equally bad

static plover Oct 2, 2020, 2:24 PM

#

Ofc it does, the minority that do stuff like splicing always ruins it for the majority

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 2:25 PM

#

I think 1 spliced run out of 100 probably hurts way less than routed vs unrouted racing in the same category, though.

proud jay Oct 2, 2020, 2:25 PM

#

hence the move towards unseeded

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 2:25 PM

#

Yeah.

proud jay Oct 2, 2020, 2:25 PM

#

makes AP even worse though

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 2:25 PM

#

Yeah, but that's fair, too.

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 2:25 PM

#

Yeah, splicing at least implies the execution was done at some point. Unseeded/seeded changes the core dynamic of the run

proud jay Oct 2, 2020, 2:25 PM

#

new TD3 already makes AP2 almost unplayable

uncut wigeon Oct 2, 2020, 2:26 PM

#

How so?

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 2:26 PM

#

AP2 in practice is an enormous DPS penalty

minor rover Oct 2, 2020, 2:26 PM

#

i prefer unseeded so yay, wasnt TD buffed?

proud jay Oct 2, 2020, 2:27 PM

#

it's quite bad in tartarus

#

i could do 50 heat with a couple of weapons if i could only get out of tartarus consistently

#

it's actually a struggle

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 2:27 PM

#

i could do 50 heat with a couple of weapons if
@proud jay #justbablothings

proud jay Oct 2, 2020, 2:28 PM

#

well... meme beam is quite ez once you get it going

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 2:35 PM

#

Did you mean to post that here lol?

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 2:35 PM

#

Yeah, 5 minutes in Tartarus is actually brutal. Once you get a build going, things are different.

proud jay Oct 2, 2020, 2:36 PM

#

Did you mean to post that here lol?
@bronze viper yes

#

it's pretty much the easiest build to beat EM4 with

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 2:38 PM

#

I'd probably still prefer Smoldering Air + Aphro's Aid

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 2:39 PM

#

Why not both?

uncut wigeon Oct 2, 2020, 2:39 PM

#

How good is evergreen acorn?

#

Also Athena's aid + Smoldering Air is grear

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 2:39 PM

#

#1 pick in Elysium and the Temple of Styx.

uncut wigeon Oct 2, 2020, 2:40 PM

#

Specially whe you're running fists as a weapon

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 2:40 PM

#

Probably #3 in Asphodel after Owl Pendant and Coin Purse.

uncut wigeon Oct 2, 2020, 2:40 PM

#

Jusr get to go ham for a few seconds every once in a while.

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 2:40 PM

#

Resqtoaster and me both like Acorn in Asphodel quite a lot on Malphon. White Lernie especially can be very mean.

#

Assuming you have HL5 on.

uncut wigeon Oct 2, 2020, 2:41 PM

#

Yeah, I see what you mean about things falling and them being hard to notice

#

Dude just headbaning the ground with abandon.

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 2:43 PM

#

I'm more concerned about the mean head slam itself. But the rubble can hurt, too, yeah.

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 2:48 PM

#

EM4's Soul Catcher or Megagorgon spam have started pushing me more towards Spearpoint for Styx at the moment

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 2:48 PM

#

Wow, all the spoilers. squirtooh

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 2:48 PM

#

But my mechanics are bad enough right now in EM4 FO2 that even without Soul Catchers obliterating the charges, I'm getting hit WAY more than 5 times

#

Lol, not that spoilery, Dad summons them anyway

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 2:49 PM

#

I kinda wish people would use spoiler tags in here, too, for the new content lol.

uncut wigeon Oct 2, 2020, 2:51 PM

#

🤔

#

so

#

I gotta practice Hades at FO2

#

mans is serious

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 2:52 PM

#

lol that's what I keep telling everyone, I think, to practice the boss fights for high heat.

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 2:52 PM

#

Yeah it's a bridge we've all had to cross. Current wisdom is that at very high heat (but not like 50), you should pick one of FO2 or EM4

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 2:52 PM

#

Ain't no point in getting there just to die.

uncut wigeon Oct 2, 2020, 2:52 PM

#

lol

#

I've barely done 3 runs with FO2

#

so it'll take a bit. That and getting used to SD instead of DD

#

guess I should crank up the damage too so I can feel extra bad.

#

😭

#

game is a cruel mistress at high heat

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 2:54 PM

#

Good rule of thumb is if you can't beat a boss while losing less than 200 HP, try, try again.

#

That's worked for me, anyway.

#

Can't always rely on getting more than that.

#

Though, Dark Foresight now changes that, I guess.

#

So maybe 250 HP?

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 2:54 PM

#

Patroclus + DDs notwithstanding

#

But it's safer to practice assuming they don't exist

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 2:55 PM

#

Yeah, exactly. Patroclus helps a ton, but if your run is guaranteed to fail just because you didn't see him, that's a problem.

#

Piercing, Concentrated, or Relentless Volley for Chiron?

#

Wow, that's quite the seed lol.

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 2:57 PM

#

No Charged Volley though, because SGG doesn't want Chiron to take over the wrold

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 2:57 PM

#

lol

#

Time to crank up the Heat to 43 instead of 32?

#

But I don't feel like recording lol.

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 3:03 PM

#

What's the AP2 hammer?

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 3:08 PM

#

Looks like TD3 JS3 CP1 isn't working lol.

#

TD2 JS3 CP2 AP1 it is, then.

#

Relentless with CP2 is way faster than Concentrated with CP1 lol.

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 3:16 PM

#

Really? I thought Concentrated was effectively like a 70% base damage buff or something

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 3:17 PM

#

Maybe they just miss too much.

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 3:17 PM

#

0+4+8+12+16+20+24 = 84 damage, I don't remember how much special does normally in 1.0

#

It's hard to gauge with Chiron because of random misses and backstabs

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 3:19 PM

#

Meg killed me.

#

squirtooh

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 3:19 PM

#

Rude

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 3:20 PM

#

Yes, very.

#

I think that's who Tis keeps trying to warn me about.

#

"Be careful, Zagreus, my sister Meg is a murderer."

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 3:23 PM

#

A murderzer

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 3:25 PM

#

Relentless Volley is really fun to use now with Chiron.

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 3:25 PM

#

The arrows are fun to watch

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 3:26 PM

#

More importantly, I know I'll recover in time to dash out of danger.

rocky mauve Oct 2, 2020, 3:32 PM

#

chiron + special hammers is just fun and works every time

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 3:35 PM

#

TD2 is so chill.

#

Even with JS3 CP2.

trim sigil Oct 2, 2020, 3:35 PM

#

0+4+8+12+16+20+24 = 84 damage, I don't remember how much special does normally in 1.0
Supposedly 15 per arrow, so it's 105+84, almost double

#

Adding relentless makes it 165+220? Damn

#

So glad my boi chiron got the 40%+ buff it deserves

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 4:11 PM

#

Well, that was easy. Did 1 run with Chiron. I'm the best Chiron user now. https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725021639506526249/761621375903203339/Hades_689.png?width=815&height=458

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 4:16 PM

#

Lol, did you like, utterly demolish your existing record with Bow?

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 4:17 PM

#

Heat record? I think I'd done 32 before?

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 4:17 PM

#

Oh, I remember screens with you at 17 or something in Blood Price haha

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 4:17 PM

#

lol

#

I did work on bringing up those weapons a little bit in 1.0.

#

As you can see, spear is still behind lol.

#

I guess I gotta do Stygius 40+ now, and probably get spear up. I dunno, I'm really bad with spear I think lol.

#

Maybe because I play Guan Yu almost always. I'm good with Charged Skewer, but I just die to Hades phase 2 with Serrated Point.

#

Specifically, the double swing into spin lol. That hits me every time.

#

I should just do Excalibur 40 Heat and tank everything? lol that'd probably work.

#

Low 40s seems actually kinda easy now with TD2 and Dark Foresight.

#

I had some good boon RNG there, though.

#

You actually get to pick trials and stuff with TD2 without having to worry about the timer. Kinda nice.

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 4:23 PM

#

Lol yeah

#

Though TD3 is stressful, you can't even take Erebus in Tartarus

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 4:24 PM

#

You can, but it's cutting it really tight.

#

Depending on aspect.

#

Well, I think TD3 without JS etc. is pretty chill? Most of the time, at least.

uncut wigeon Oct 2, 2020, 4:25 PM

#

Is it possible to complete a run at full heat?

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 4:26 PM

#

We don't know

#

Current best guess is no

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 4:26 PM

#

Possible? Yes. Probable? No.

uncut wigeon Oct 2, 2020, 4:27 PM

#

JS2, TD3 and DC2

#

Oh and CP3.

#

🤔

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 4:27 PM

#

CP2*

uncut wigeon Oct 2, 2020, 4:27 PM

#

Yeah

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 4:27 PM

#

BP2 and EM4 are also issues for time.

uncut wigeon Oct 2, 2020, 4:28 PM

#

Lol savior gonna give it to ya

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 4:28 PM

#

BP2 on average don't have that much more HP/armor than regular elites.

#

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725021639506526249/759810483926073364/Hades_659.png?width=815&height=458

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 4:28 PM

#

If I had to guess it would probably be Zeus aspect that maaaybe could do it

#

LIke, from a sheer possibility standpoint

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 4:29 PM

#

You can do TD3 JS3 CP2 DC2 in theory. That's not the problem.

#

The problem is the probability of actually getting the build for that + Stubborn Roots for heals with running Lucky Tooth in Tartarus (because you need Lucky Tooth to get Stubborn Roots with RI4).

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 4:30 PM

#

Popper, Cloner, Bruiser, Shifter all add seconds each

#

Savior

uncut wigeon Oct 2, 2020, 4:30 PM

#

You neec lucky tooth for stubborn roots?

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 4:30 PM

#

RI4

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 4:30 PM

#

You need a DD slot for Stubborn Roots.

#

Zeus aspect
Isn't that aspect way too slow?

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 4:31 PM

#

It's the best ME aspect

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 4:31 PM

#

thanthink

uncut wigeon Oct 2, 2020, 4:32 PM

#

Zeus aspect is hard to use

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 4:32 PM

#

I tried it and was not impressed at all.

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 4:32 PM

#

It's speedrunner meta pretty sure

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 4:32 PM

#

I'd put Aspect of MElphon as the best ME aspect.

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 4:32 PM

#

Though I don't really keep close track of their shenanigans

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 4:33 PM

#

Don't they all use Beowulf for all-weapons speedruns?

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 4:34 PM

#

¯_(ツ)_/¯

#

Also if you're talking about non-routing, Zeus has the luxury of not needing 3 boons for ME, so that's a plus

crystal iron Oct 2, 2020, 4:36 PM

#

What's an effective way of using ME on Zeus shield? Doom on special, deflect on attack?

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 4:36 PM

#

Yeah

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 4:36 PM

#

That's a plus, surely. I'm just looking at possibility rather than probability.

#

I'd argue Fists 4 ME beats Zeus ME in speed any day of the week, though.

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 4:37 PM

#

There aren't that many aspects to choose from that don't care about DC2, sadly

uncut wigeon Oct 2, 2020, 4:37 PM

#

True

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 4:37 PM

#

Yeah, Fist4 is a contender

#

Weirdly

#

lol

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 4:37 PM

#

Beowulf doesn't care about DC2 until you get to Hades lol. That fight is kinda brutal with DC2.

uncut wigeon Oct 2, 2020, 4:38 PM

#

🤔

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 4:38 PM

#

Well, it's not that weird. ME wants dashes, MElphon has dashes.

uncut wigeon Oct 2, 2020, 4:38 PM

#

I dont buy thst

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 4:38 PM

#

What don't you buy?

uncut wigeon Oct 2, 2020, 4:38 PM

#

Or at least Im having trouble visualizing jy

#

Beo being cool with DC2.

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 4:38 PM

#

It's not just about not caring, it has to be trivially non-caring, because of TD3. So ideally what you'd be doing normally anyway should ignore the hearts

uncut wigeon Oct 2, 2020, 4:39 PM

#

Maybe Chaos can

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 4:39 PM

#

Lmao Chaos can't even do TD3 on a good day at 40 heat

uncut wigeon Oct 2, 2020, 4:39 PM

#

Well placed shotgun blasts could get you there.

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 4:39 PM

#

Yeah, TD3 is tbh too much for Beowulf at 50+ now. I was fine with pre-1.0 TD2, though. But that's with or without DC2 now.

#

I mean, it's probably still doable? Need good RNG, though.

#

@uncut wigeon Dash-Strike > Dragon Rush > cast kaboom is already 3 hits. Add Drunken Strike or Lightning Strike for 2 hits before the Dragon Rush, and a lot of things are either dead or half dead even with just 1 cast from RI3.

#

And once shields are gone, Charged Flight still murders.

uncut wigeon Oct 2, 2020, 4:42 PM

#

dragon rush takes a bit to charge though

#

and this would be, full wacky mode.

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 4:43 PM

#

It doesn't. You can just insta release.

#

I mean, I've dealt with this stuff with Beowulf. It's not a hypothetial discussion.

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 4:43 PM

#

You do have to deal with Beo's chunky attack animation though

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 4:44 PM

#

Yeah, but it's very doable tbh.

uncut wigeon Oct 2, 2020, 4:44 PM

#

lol, I did Gilgamesh dash special against 2 enemies with the slow down perk

#

then I remembered this channel

#

and I laughed hard

#

😂

#

At least beowulf can tosss stuff at them.

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 4:45 PM

#

Are you still recovering from your Dash-Upper?

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 4:45 PM

#

So final verdict, from a purely theorycrafting possibility standpoint, probably Fist4? Speedrunning discord would probably have a far more nuanced take though

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 4:45 PM

#

Possibly. It's definitely up there, yeah.

uncut wigeon Oct 2, 2020, 4:47 PM

#

aren't speedrunners doing speedruns on easy?

#

beating the game super fast with practically zero heat is kinda 🤷‍♂️

#

they do love them some high damage seeded starts though.

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 4:48 PM

#

Nah, speedrun meta can be very helpful in informing high heat.

#

@bronze viper speedrun server says Beowulf is meta, yeah.

#

But Zeus "In theory, with perfect gameplay? Merciful End with Athena on Attack + Pulverizing Blow" might be able to beat it. Also saying "Nobody has really looked hard at absolute top end shield speed, so all shield speed discussion is mostly in an all weapons context".

uncut wigeon Oct 2, 2020, 4:58 PM

#

🤔

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 5:06 PM

#

?

#

The fastest speedrun aspects are also generally the best for TD3.

#

Attack rotations and call timing etc. can also be very similar for speedruns and high heat.

#

You want to be able to clear fast at high heat. Even if you don't set speedrun records, you should be clearing way faster than average players at 0 Heat if you want to do high heat.

#

Some differences would be that speedrunners care a lot less about taking damage in boss fights, for example. And you might need to pull back more often at high heat. But when you're being aggressive, it's not too different from being aggressive in speedruns. You don't want to waste time and kill everything efficiently.

umbral lintel Oct 2, 2020, 5:14 PM

#

Is it normal for Trial of the Gods with Jury Summons in Tartarus to have 4-5 waves of enemies?

#

I've been trying to attempt 32 heat for all weapons recently and found that in the Trial Of the Gods in Tartarus specifically seem to spawn a lot more enemies than in Elysium, which usually spawns 2 waves even with Jury Summons.

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 5:18 PM

#

Depends on enemy difficulty and stuff. I haven't encountered anything odd in trials. If you think something is off, report it with F10 so they can look into it.

#

You might be right that something is off there.

umbral lintel Oct 2, 2020, 5:21 PM

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I wasn't sure if I remembered wrongly because I did 32 heat before v1.0 and I don't remember there was that many waves for Trial Of the Gods, and even weirder since it's only for Tartarus. I'd try it again sometime later and note down the numbers before I F10 it

marsh delta Oct 2, 2020, 5:22 PM

#

Question: What Pact settings are optimal for attempting 32 heat with Arthur aspect sword?

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 5:23 PM

#

Go light on HL, no FO, no DC

#

Everything else is fine

marsh delta Oct 2, 2020, 5:24 PM

#

thanks, did figure out the no FO part early on though

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 5:24 PM

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FO2 is manageable if you have no HL and if you get Greater Consecration

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 5:26 PM

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I always do FO2 with Excalibur lol.

umbral lintel Oct 2, 2020, 5:26 PM

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FO2 JS1 is a nightmare for me lol

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 5:26 PM

#

Probably a lot easier not to do that and just breeze through everything.

#

You can probably breeze through JS3 CP2 TD2 if you don't pick FO or HL? The weapon hits like a truck, and FO0 mobs are slowpokes.

#

Quite a bit of free heat.

#

Hmmm but JS3 can probably be overwhelming a bit if you're not used to it.

umbral lintel Oct 2, 2020, 5:28 PM

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No DC as well I guess?

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 5:28 PM

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Yeah, don't pick DC.

#

Way easier if everything just dies right away lol.

umbral lintel Oct 2, 2020, 5:28 PM

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Hmm might give that a shot

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 5:29 PM

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Doesn't matter if there are 2 enemies or 5 enemies in your swing radius if they all die in one combo.

umbral lintel Oct 2, 2020, 5:30 PM

#

Do you recommend RI1? I feel that with the lack of the 20% boon encounter increase, UC and AP1 becomes a lot more noticeable due to less boons overall to dilute the pool

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 5:32 PM

#

No, I don't. Dark Foresight is too good, much easier if you can keep that, epic+, and all of your Persuasion rerolls.

#

But AP1 is a non-issue. Don't really need it at 32, though.

#

Well.

#

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/725021639506526249/761621375903203339/Hades_689.png

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If you use those pacts but without HL nor FO, that should 32 Heat.

#

Should be a good setup.

#

You'll have plenty of time with TD2, just don't waste if you can avoid it or you'll run into issues. It's not the fastest at clearing.

#

Much better to be a bit hasty in regular chambers but have a lot of time for Hades than play it too safe in regular chambers and have to do a fast Hades fight at the end.

chrome bramble Oct 2, 2020, 5:37 PM

#

what boons did you go for for your special there?

#

i cant recognize the icons

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 5:37 PM

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Err . . . I had Heartbreak Flourish at first, but I ended up having to sell it at the Temple of Styx.

#

Choice was Greatest Reflex, Heartbreak Flourish, or Divine Dash lol.

#

Special is the easiest to replace.

#

I ended up picking up Divine Flourish in the Temple.

chrome bramble Oct 2, 2020, 5:38 PM

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🤔

#

aaand why did you go for heartbreak flourish?

#

dont you already have weak effect on the attack

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 5:39 PM

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Because it was offered, and it has the best +% damage.

keen kettle Oct 2, 2020, 5:40 PM

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Was about to say ahaha

chrome bramble Oct 2, 2020, 5:40 PM

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Thonk

keen kettle Oct 2, 2020, 5:40 PM

#

Divine flourish on chiron not gonna deflect anything

honest kernel Oct 2, 2020, 5:40 PM

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oh nice chiron run 👍

chrome bramble Oct 2, 2020, 5:40 PM

#

maybe i should look up some spreadsheet for damage, i thought something like zeus wouldgive you the most damage on chiron

keen kettle Oct 2, 2020, 5:40 PM

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Chiron too fast for zeus ICD

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 5:41 PM

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I use Family Favorite, so I don't care about applying multiple status effects. All the other gods I had need a t2 to apply a debuff, anyway.

chrome bramble Oct 2, 2020, 5:41 PM

#

meowmad

#

i didnt know it has a cooldown

keen kettle Oct 2, 2020, 5:41 PM

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Not every arrow procs zeus

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 5:41 PM

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And if everything applies Weak, I don't need to worry about what attack to use to apply Weak.

chrome bramble Oct 2, 2020, 5:41 PM

#

i see

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 5:41 PM

#

Just means everything on the field does 30% less damage no matter what I press lol.

keen kettle Oct 2, 2020, 5:42 PM

#

I prefer family favorite as well

chrome bramble Oct 2, 2020, 5:42 PM

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same, but im not doing 40+ runs 😂

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 5:42 PM

#

Thunder Flourish has a 200 ms cooldown, yeah.

chrome bramble Oct 2, 2020, 5:42 PM

#

i see 🤔

keen kettle Oct 2, 2020, 5:42 PM

#

I prefer crit on chiron

chrome bramble Oct 2, 2020, 5:42 PM

#

is that slow enough for fists to work? should be right?

keen kettle Oct 2, 2020, 5:42 PM

#

Yeah works fine with fists and rail

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 5:43 PM

#

The cooldown only applies to Special.

keen kettle Oct 2, 2020, 5:43 PM

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Actually works amazingly with eris

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 5:43 PM

#

Lightning Strike has Chain Lightning. That's not at all affected.

chrome bramble Oct 2, 2020, 5:43 PM

#

ah

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 5:43 PM

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@honest kernel thank you! 💗

chrome bramble Oct 2, 2020, 5:44 PM

#

and why crit on chiron special? 🤔 isnt the base damage of the hits too low to make much use of the crit?

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 5:44 PM

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I'll maybe upload it tomorrow to show off my sick day 1 Chiron skills as the #1 Chiron expert.

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Deadly Flourish is great on Chiron.

chrome bramble Oct 2, 2020, 5:45 PM

#

feel when brainlet

#

😔

#

i thought you want big base damage if you go for crit

keen kettle Oct 2, 2020, 5:45 PM

#

Statistically speaking

chrome bramble Oct 2, 2020, 5:45 PM

#

and on hit effects if you go for many small hits

keen kettle Oct 2, 2020, 5:45 PM

#

In infinite sample size

#

Crit doesnt have bias

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 5:46 PM

#

Heartbreak Flourish is best for damage on Chiron. Deadly Flourish and Tempest Flourish come in second. But with Heartbreak Strike and Heart Rend, Deadly Flourish wins.

#

But Lady Artemis never showed up, so it didn't matter.

keen kettle Oct 2, 2020, 5:46 PM

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Ah yes my favorite duo boon

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 5:46 PM

#

And Lady Aphrodite was offering Heartbreak Flourish instead of Heartbreak Strike, so I went with that.

#

Then got Epic Heartbreak Strike a couple chambers later. I'm not saying no to that, either.

#

lol

keen kettle Oct 2, 2020, 5:50 PM

#

Standard deviation on both types of damage would be the same statistically for crit

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 6:07 PM

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As with everything else too, the Aphro/Arty debate isn't really a debate, since there's both Heart Rend and Smoldering AIr as payoffs

trim sigil Oct 2, 2020, 6:13 PM

#

Imagine actually balanced boon choices that require debates to figure what's better with x

#

bouldy

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 6:14 PM

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Lol, tbf this is a rare exception

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 6:15 PM

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I mean what debate anyway? Pick whichever you see first lol.

#

I'm not gonna be like oh no Epic Deadly Strike when I wanted Heartbreak Strike, I'll take the Common True Shot instead.

trim sigil Oct 2, 2020, 6:19 PM

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Yeah, I was mostly poking fun at other stuff like demeter that barely anyone uses and doesn't even consider, usually

#

Because then it doesn't require a debate and is an easy choice, but at what cost..?

uncut wigeon Oct 2, 2020, 6:32 PM

#

Demeter is unnecessarily hot

#

SSG doesnt get enough credit for that Helen Mirren swag they pulled with her

#

👀

keen kettle Oct 2, 2020, 6:36 PM

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Uhhhh... ok

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 6:38 PM

#

@trim sigil who?

trim sigil Oct 2, 2020, 6:38 PM

#

who what

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 6:39 PM

#

where

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 6:39 PM

#

I don't know what god you were talking about. dusa

trim sigil Oct 2, 2020, 6:39 PM

#

ah, some secondary godling, no need to dig that deep

#

squirtyay

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 6:39 PM

#

Today I saw a boon from Lady Demeter and picked the other chamber exit without looking what it was.

#

No regrets.

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 6:45 PM

#

I've been using Lightning Strike so much I kind of bite the bullet, Cold Fusion is soooo good against bosses

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 6:45 PM

#

That makes sense.

#

Eris?

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 6:45 PM

#

The downside is now i have to look at Demeter's dozen unusable boons

#

Yeah, most of my time with 1.0 has been Eris, Zag bow and Rama

#

And Hades spear lol

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 6:46 PM

#

You seem to really enjoy Eris. That's cool.

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 6:46 PM

#

I didn't even have it unlocked on PC. Just mentally dismissed it for some reason

#

It's very attractive for a new game file because 75% free damage doesn't play around

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 6:47 PM

#

I like to see how people go from master of 1 aspect to branching out. I guess I'm doing the same.

#

From only playing Malphon at all to now Beowulf + Malphon and 2 other weapons at 40+.

#

Meanwhile, @daring hedge is still doing barrel rolls with Hades for all eternity.

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 6:48 PM

#

I'm so bad at Malphon but it's so fun to play

keen kettle Oct 2, 2020, 6:48 PM

#

I saw ur bow also at 43 @mossy zinc i assume its with chiron

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 6:48 PM

#

Yeah, that was today.

rocky mauve Oct 2, 2020, 6:48 PM

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Not sure how I feel about rail on high heat, I get hit more than usual cuz it forces you to stand still more than most weapons

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 6:49 PM

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WR for Chiron. 👸🏽

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 6:49 PM

#

Hestia is always moving tbf

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 6:49 PM

#

Rule #1 for Rail is always be moving when reloading.

#

If you stand still when pressing reload, you can't move until the animation is done.

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 6:49 PM

#

But yeah, the Lightning Strike builds have to position in place for a while, and Eris in particular has the constraint of finding a place to throw the bomb safely

#

Static Discharge goes a long way

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 6:49 PM

#

If you're already running when you press reload, you can keep running.

trim sigil Oct 2, 2020, 6:50 PM

#

I actually wonder if new Chiron is busted enough to take the throne, or good old beo/chaos are still superior

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 6:50 PM

#

Chiron will get stop-gapped by AP2 if I had to guess, the other bow aspects care much less about it

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 6:50 PM

#

I just tap Special any time it's off CD. Is that not how to play Eris? thanthink

rocky mauve Oct 2, 2020, 6:50 PM

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I like the triple special for eris but then i stand still for too long for the triple shot

#

The hammer i mean

trim sigil Oct 2, 2020, 6:51 PM

#

Well, that's assuming you don't just go for Relentless seed and then any special atk

#

which is not ideal but workable

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 6:51 PM

#

Even then your attack is still a pretty sizable chunk of your damage

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 6:51 PM

#

I think Beowulf is way better than Chiron.

proud jay Oct 2, 2020, 6:52 PM

#

do you mean charged flight?

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 6:52 PM

#

I mean Beowulf in general.

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 6:52 PM

#

I think Chiron is better than Hera now. And Hera is great

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 6:52 PM

#

No idea, haven't played Hera at all in 1.0.

mystic apex Oct 2, 2020, 6:52 PM

#

👀

trim sigil Oct 2, 2020, 6:52 PM

#

Well, Beo is a better Hera, supposedly, so the question stays

#

Out of all bow aspects Hera was buffed the least, if I were to guess. Most of its' power is casts

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 6:53 PM

#

Right, well, I was saying that I don't think it's a conversation yet that Chiron is even the best bow, so I'm not holding my breath for it being best aspect

limpid nymph Oct 2, 2020, 6:53 PM

#

Hera is pretty nice from my experience

rocky mauve Oct 2, 2020, 6:53 PM

#

What else besides trippy shot is good for hera?

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 6:53 PM

#

Though you're welcome to prove me wrong. Chiron is very fun I certainly wouldn't complain about it being broken

proud jay Oct 2, 2020, 6:53 PM

#

hera does kinda well with athena cast

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 6:54 PM

#

Crush works too

proud jay Oct 2, 2020, 6:54 PM

#

crush pom scaling got nerfed though

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 6:54 PM

#

LOL

#

I blame you

rocky mauve Oct 2, 2020, 6:54 PM

#

Crush is very odd and inconsistent with hera

trim sigil Oct 2, 2020, 6:54 PM

#

Technically true shot is okay-ish too, ig

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 6:54 PM

#

Crush Shot getting nerfed is such a weird thing, wow.

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 6:55 PM

#

43 with Chiron was easy, I'll say that much. But I had awesome boon RNG tbh.

proud jay Oct 2, 2020, 6:55 PM

#

chiron is quite good

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 6:55 PM

#

RI0 with Dark Foresight and keeping all rerolls helps a lot.

proud jay Oct 2, 2020, 6:55 PM

#

i've attempted 50 heat with it a bit

#

it still kinda struggles against EM4 fight because of the slow animation

#

and TD3 tartarus is painful

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 6:56 PM

#

At least wait until I've uploaded my current Chiron WR before you break it at 50. dusa

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 6:56 PM

#

The circle of life

proud jay Oct 2, 2020, 6:56 PM

#

well i might have finished a 45-something already with it idk

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 6:56 PM

#

Unless you've already done higher than 42 with it?

#

42 is the highest on the spreadsheet from you, anyway.

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 6:56 PM

#

Lol, using level 0 Zagreus Aspect though

proud jay Oct 2, 2020, 6:56 PM

#

~45 should be ez

#

unseeded

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 6:57 PM

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Probably.

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 6:57 PM

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We should take this to high heat, we're going to spook the new players with this talk

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 6:57 PM

#

This is high heat lol.

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 6:57 PM

#

I'm sleepy get off me

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 6:57 PM

#

zaglol

#

I'm giggling more than I should lol.

proud jay Oct 2, 2020, 6:58 PM

#

is 45 even high heat though?

trim sigil Oct 2, 2020, 6:58 PM

#

Not anymore, ig

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 6:58 PM

#

Lol

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 6:59 PM

#

I mean, just because you do 45+ with everything doesn't change that it's only like 0.01% of players or something who do 45 lol.

#

You're still only 1 person. dusa

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 6:59 PM

#

It's way less than 0.01 now right? The game sold millions

limpid nymph Oct 2, 2020, 6:59 PM

#

about 1 million copies

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 6:59 PM

#

I'm just throwing out low numbers.

#

I imagine a large % of those players never actually played more than 10 hours or something? That's just how that normally goes.

trim sigil Oct 2, 2020, 7:00 PM

#

1 player on 40k discord of 1M game

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 7:00 PM

#

Yeah there's a huge population that's not likely to engage in the replay loop of roguelites

trim sigil Oct 2, 2020, 7:00 PM

#

dusa

daring hedge Oct 2, 2020, 7:01 PM

#

@mossy zinc hey now 48 with Rama and everything else at 45 lets me off the hook for being just a barrel roller

#

Though yes that will always be my favorite

trim sigil Oct 2, 2020, 7:01 PM

#

18% finished the game once. You can see how quickly regular playerbase falls off

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 7:02 PM

#

Also bablo has transcended to the point where his opinion is simultaneously uniquely valuable and relatively useless to most players.

#

Because unseeded 50's are like, so far from being in the conversation lol

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 7:02 PM

#

I'm in the 52+ club, so it's useful for me.

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 7:03 PM

#

For literally n - 1 players, where n is the population of players

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 7:03 PM

#

Also for @daring hedge.

#

Sorry for you, @bronze viper.

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 7:03 PM

#

Lol, you have to do it unseeded first

trim sigil Oct 2, 2020, 7:03 PM

#

2.6% for 16 heat btw

#

So it's fair to assume 40+ is at like 0.3%

#

or 0.03

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 7:04 PM

#

0.03 sounds too high tbh.

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 7:04 PM

#

There should be stats for 32 right? I assume there's an achievement for the Skelly statues

trim sigil Oct 2, 2020, 7:04 PM

#

There are only for first and second one

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 7:04 PM

#

Lol...

#

Seems like a moderate oversight

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 7:04 PM

#

@bronze viper if you print this out, maybe it will help you. https://discordapp.com/channels/456889434672201729/520688402958516254/520688527412035584

trim sigil Oct 2, 2020, 7:05 PM

#

32 is a tad too high for regular imho, so it was a fair choice at the cost of consistency

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 7:05 PM

#

Not an oversight. It's deliberate because they don't want achievements to be too difficult.

#

I dunno. Isn't the Butterfly achievement harder than 32?

#

I never do Butterfly runs lol. I've no idea.

marsh nymph Oct 2, 2020, 7:06 PM

#

Seems like a moderate oversight
@bronze viper actually intended so not to frustrate unskilled completionists

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 7:06 PM

#

"Unskilled" isn't a word I would use.

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 7:06 PM

#

So, going by that, yeah I agree that .03% is probably a bit too high as a guess for 40+

trim sigil Oct 2, 2020, 7:06 PM

#

Who would win?
16 to 32 leap
or
80% godmode
bouldy

wraith imp Oct 2, 2020, 7:06 PM

#

@bronze viper actually intended so not to frustrate unskilled completionists
@marsh nymph
U wot 8? You calling me a scrub? Is that what's happening here?

I swear on me mammy...

marsh nymph Oct 2, 2020, 7:06 PM

#

I dunno. Isn't the Butterfly achievement harder than 32?
@mossy zinc if you set yourself doing it it's really easy, just do it at heath 0

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 7:07 PM

#

Chaos aspect gang

trim sigil Oct 2, 2020, 7:07 PM

#

And ye I guess even 0.03% was too generous of a call

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 7:07 PM

#

Still really good at not getting hit lol

marsh nymph Oct 2, 2020, 7:07 PM

#

@marsh nymph
U wot 8? You calling me a scrub? Is that what's happening here?

I swear on me mammy...
@wraith imp no, i maybe have used a bad term, but that's really the reason behind it.

mossy zinc Oct 2, 2020, 7:07 PM

#

Wasn't Chaos Aspect erased from the game in 1.0?

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 7:07 PM

#

If you ask some people yeah

#

lol

trim sigil Oct 2, 2020, 7:07 PM

#

Can't erase the progenitor of all aspects

#

smh

marsh nymph Oct 2, 2020, 7:07 PM

#

maybe i should have said not enough skiled/not enough driven players?

wraith imp Oct 2, 2020, 7:07 PM

#

@wraith imp no, i maybe have used a bad term, but that's really the reason behind it.
@marsh nymph
Oh
lol
Don't take it seriously.
i was using a meme to poke fun at myself.

marsh nymph Oct 2, 2020, 7:07 PM

#

😄

wraith imp Oct 2, 2020, 7:07 PM

#

It's the "u wot m8" meme.

marsh nymph Oct 2, 2020, 7:09 PM

#

i'm no monster and i managed to do 32 (with fists) so i feel it's doable as long as you don't mind trying a lot.

#

but it surely can get frustrating

wraith imp Oct 2, 2020, 7:11 PM

#

btw, has anyone noticed that the icon for approval process is a garbage/trash can? lol
i...uh...just noticed that.

#

i just assumed it was some blob.

bronze viper Oct 2, 2020, 7:12 PM

#

It's symbolic