h1-high-heat-strategies

[fair trout]

so makes sense

also i was wondering

as long as you avoid elite rooms

you're guranteed a 3 sack right?

[hollow lynx]

sack is gotten anywhere between 2-5 tunnels

[fair trout]

oh damn

okay i wasnt sure

i've always gotten it after 2 if i avoid the elite rooms

[hollow lynx]

if you get 4-sack'd you might as well Give Up and redo the run

[fair trout]

so i just assumed they changed it

thats

sucks

so much wow

[daring hedge]

yeah, miniboss rooms don't affect sack rng at all either

[fair trout]

thats really unfortunate

[daring hedge]

most people take them first because they're usually faster than normal encounters

[hollow lynx]

it kinda feels like the rng is weighted towards 2-3 but apparently there's nothing in the code that proves that

[fair trout]

tbh

i have yet to have a 5 sack

[somber rose]

wow, the demeter boon "while you have no casts do +30% damage", is always active on beuwulf as long as I don't bullrush

[daring hedge]

earlier toffel said they recalled it just being a 50/50 from second tunnel onward

which seems like it'd make sense

[hollow lynx]

yeah, ravenous will is great with cast-loading weapons like that

and lightning rod!

[fair trout]

genuine question

[daring hedge]

ravenous will bonus applies to beo flare bursts, right

[hollow lynx]

yeah

while loaded, the cast counter is still 0/3

[daring hedge]

i knew snow burst was great on it but yeah wanted to make sure on that too

that rules

[fair trout]

i had CF 1, EM 3, CP 1, BP 1, FO 1, , DC 1, AP 1

what would i want to up

as i work towards heat 32

[daring hedge]

MM for sure

maybe even BP2. i personally don't have too much trouble with it but i know that's not the case for everyone

[fair trout]

BP is one of the ones

i dont mind so far tbh

[daring hedge]

FO2 is good to get the hang of eventually, so you could try it

[fair trout]

i havent had MM on yet

so i was kinda scared

as to what it might be lmfao

[hollow lynx]

what weapon?

[daring hedge]

and you can dip into HL a little without going the full +100%

[fair trout]

bow and sword are my 2 best rn

sword i've come incredibly close to beating heat 16 on but i died on hades last phase

[hollow lynx]

if you go chiron DC2 is free

pos sword with slicing shot/crystal beam as well

[fair trout]

yea

chiron is my favourite

i didnt actually realize

till you said it but yea

DC 2 is free

[hollow lynx]

no TD?

[fair trout]

no, i ran out of time on hades phase 3

LOL

but

[hollow lynx]

without em4 it should be fine lol

[fair trout]

im pretty sure i can beat the game pre 36 mins without em 4

[hollow lynx]

td1 at least, especially since fo speeds up spawn times

[fair trout]

oh wait really?

it literally just speed up all animations then i guess

but yee

i finished that run in 30 mins and 40 seconds

so i should def be putting on forced overtime

[limpid nymph]

30 min?

[hollow lynx]

with your choices set, i'd honestly just start going at it and practicing your skills

[fair trout]

honbestly yea

[hollow lynx]

lower that run time

[limpid nymph]

yep

[fair trout]

im consistently getting to hades so yea

i think just playing with FO on no matter what

[limpid nymph]

while FO can help a little bit, it won't do everything

[fair trout]

will be a good way to make me start going faster too

**TD i mean

also isn't 30 mins fine?

[limpid nymph]

I mean sure, could get rough with heat

[fair trout]

TD1 is 36 mins right?

[hollow lynx]

TD1 is 36, yeah

[limpid nymph]

yes

[fair trout]

obviously i need to go evern faster

[limpid nymph]

but you probably want at least TD2

[fair trout]

yea

[limpid nymph]

sub 20 shouldn't be too hard to achieve

[fair trout]

tbh TD3 seems nearly impossible

at high heats

[limpid nymph]

it's super hard

[hollow lynx]

if you don't stack CP and JS, it's manageable imo

[limpid nymph]

especially when you can't just "get" the boons you want without luck or a lot of seed manipulating

[hollow lynx]

but getting bad BP2 combos can really ruin a run

[fair trout]

yea

makes sense

out of curiosity

is going to erebeus worth?

[hollow lynx]

things like speeder shifter bowmen which constantly shift and dash everywhere, so you can never get a clean hit

[fair trout]

specifically if the goal is to go fast

[hollow lynx]

no imo, the goal of erebus incentives slow, methodical gameplay

[limpid nymph]

meh

erebus isn't that hard

in comparison

you don't want to be hit regardless

[fair trout]

while thats true

i tend to play far safer

when im in erebus

because i feel like i want to get the reward

which means more time

[limpid nymph]

I don't think it's erebus that is the perpetrator for your times though

you don't encounter it that often

[fair trout]

oh also, since shops cost more, should i be going golden touch instead of deep pockets?

[hollow lynx]

remember that npc rooms and thanatos pause the TD timer

[limpid nymph]

no you want deep pockets still

[hollow lynx]

eh

[limpid nymph]

because boons early on matter more

[hollow lynx]

deep pockets is just more useful earlier

[limpid nymph]

also, always go chaos and shop

and npcs

[fair trout]

Chaos is always

for me

[limpid nymph]

because of what onyx said

[fair trout]

wait i swear

i was in shop once

and timer continued

[limpid nymph]

chaos can sometimes screw you esp with AP but it's more than worth

right

but it's short

and it's counted as a chamber

[fair trout]

right

fair

[hollow lynx]

timer still goes on in shops but they're much quicker than encounters

[fair trout]

ah

[hollow lynx]

chaos is the same way

[fair trout]

so even if im not buying anything

its worthwhile to

that makes sense

right

so the thing about deep pockets

[hollow lynx]

npc rooms you can take as long as you want though, so if you want a break to listen to eurydice, go right ahead

[fair trout]

is i also go fater persuasion as personal preference

which is nice since if you get bad early RNG you can reroll

[limpid nymph]

I highly recommend RP1 always, so for me it doesn't matter

you can always reset and manipulate the rng a little for the early part of the run

after that, you get keys and rerolls

[fair trout]

right

[hollow lynx]

eh, i like having access to those so i don't use RI

[limpid nymph]

preference I guess but I think it's pretty easy to take RP1

[fair trout]

wait

is RP1 not literally random?

[limpid nymph]

it deactivates 3 at a time

starting from the bottom

not random

[fair trout]

OH

wait

okay

[limpid nymph]

RP2 takes away the bottom 6

[fair trout]

i just maxed olympian favor tho X_X

(this is just me being a baby tho_

[limpid nymph]

that's a rip

[fair trout]

RP1 is probably fine tbh tho

[limpid nymph]

the one that gets missed the most is dark foresight probably

[fair trout]

i have noticed that the bottom 3 are not terrible to lose

[limpid nymph]

but I don't really mind

[fair trout]

casue i didn't have them for super long anyways

[limpid nymph]

well and you can still get rerolls if you've upgraded with the contractor

[fair trout]

i cleared EM4 without having unlocked them yet

oh thats true

and as long as persuasion is clicked

i get it for boons right?

even if its deactivated

[hollow lynx]

yes

[fair trout]

awesaome

[hollow lynx]

keys will give you whatever fated you have activated

[limpid nymph]

I would put it on authority though

in general it's just more useful

[fair trout]

is there a "best" cthonic companion btw?

[limpid nymph]

probably meg

9 times out of 10

[hollow lynx]

not really, but i use battie

i've seen arguments for the others too

[limpid nymph]

antos is sometimes good for single targets

[fair trout]

aight

[limpid nymph]

but otherwise, you can just use meg

[fair trout]

im

not going to lie

[limpid nymph]

than is kinda slow

[fair trout]

im currently using Dusa

[hollow lynx]

antos doesn't miss, and skelly is good to keep the heat off of you

[fair trout]

because

[limpid nymph]

lol

[fair trout]

I uhhh

[limpid nymph]

antos doesn't miss, but meg is pretty easy to use if you know what you're doing

[fair trout]

definitely didn't invest all my ambrosia into her and her companion

[limpid nymph]

lmao

[hollow lynx]

bouldy gets less useful when you rank up LC

[fair trout]

but i'll probably focus on upgrading megs then

[limpid nymph]

bouldy also gets less useful because you can use all companions against hades now

(if you have trouble with hades)

[fair trout]

i noticed thans didnt seem great cause of how long it takes

wait

you can use it during hades?

io swear i couldnt

when i tried to summon dusa

[hollow lynx]

you have to unlock it first

[limpid nymph]

^

[fair trout]

okay

fair enough

im really curious how you unlock that

[hollow lynx]

during the brief period i used rib, i found it most useful keeping oppressive BP2 enemies off of my back

[fair trout]

tbh im not really sure where is optimal to use them

[hollow lynx]

just keep playing and talking to hades, don't remember any specific thing

[fair trout]

i tend to use it during minibosses and then elysium boss

elysium boss is hard with FO on

asx in i normally am fine but sometimes

[hollow lynx]

oppressive BP2 enemies
and by this i mean speeder slugger chariots

[limpid nymph]

Elysium miniboss, elysium boss, styx miniboss, dad is what I'm using now

[fair trout]

asterius too fast for me :((

[limpid nymph]

but it's whatever you struggle with

[fair trout]

yea, i feel like

if i need to use it early in the run

its kinda doomed

[limpid nymph]

I avoid FO like the devil lmao

so bosses aren't too bad for me

[fair trout]

yea

i mean

playing with FO

[hollow lynx]

but 6 heat is so good lol

[fair trout]

and then playing with it off

[limpid nymph]

I'm going for 40 heat now

[fair trout]

is 2 different worlds

[limpid nymph]

and still not playing with it

[fair trout]

lmfao

i mean

eventually

you get used to it

thje only thing that scares me

[limpid nymph]

sure

[fair trout]

is chariots

like

those things

TERRIFY me

on FO

[limpid nymph]

but I'd rather take max HL and LQ

or something

[fair trout]

fair enough

[hollow lynx]

have you gotten speeder chariots on fo yet

[limpid nymph]

I already hate flamewheels

so why should I make them more annoying

[fair trout]

yes i have onyx 😦

VROOM VROOM

[limpid nymph]

the small boys are fine

[fair trout]

that has definitely ended a run

[limpid nymph]

cause you can run them into walls

but the big ones

with armor

and two perks

[fair trout]

oh small boys are fine

[limpid nymph]

make me depressed

[fair trout]

big boys with armor going vroom vroom on VO

[hollow lynx]

Benefits Package is such a fun and engaging experience.

[fair trout]

is just GG

[limpid nymph]

BP is tough but I don't mind it too much

I play with BP2

[fair trout]

aight really though i appreciate the advice

i think im going to focus on lower heats since my weeapons are still only asking for heat 4's tho

[daring hedge]

i think BP2 is a good one to get used to because it's
a) decent heat
and b) honestly fun (most of the time)

[fair trout]

and i wanna unlcok more aspects

i have the hidden aspect for the sword and fists

[limpid nymph]

yeah I think BP is pretty fun

oh damn

[hollow lynx]

a lot of the genuinely unfun BP2 combos have been patched out, tbf

[fair trout]

waiting for me to unlock

lmfao

[limpid nymph]

you don't have all the aspects?

[fair trout]

nope

[limpid nymph]

have you gotten the ending of the game?

[fair trout]

i almost beat 16 with demeter and its not maxed out yet

i have not gotten the epilogue

[hollow lynx]

but shifter bowmen will still have a place in the deepest pits of hell

[fair trout]

i have gotten to the credits tho

[limpid nymph]

oh nice

[fair trout]

and persophone has briefly talked about her plans but we have yet to actually do anything

[limpid nymph]

yeah but finish unlocking and upgrading things

if you're trying high heat

[fair trout]

yea, sorta what im thinking

at least figure out which aspects i like for all weapons

and then max those out

before going for really high heats

[hollow lynx]

that might be a problem for unlocking companions v hades if you constantly die to hades and he's never home

[fair trout]

x)

tbh my winrate vs hades was like 70% for a while

but now its like

40% LOL

[limpid nymph]

hades is sometimes the easiest part of the run for me

[fair trout]

oh he was

then i turned FO and EM4 on

uh

[limpid nymph]

oh yeah

[fair trout]

would not recommend

[limpid nymph]

I wouldn't mess with EM4 on high heat until you're really used to it

[fair trout]

yea im really not planning to

im going to be doing EM4 runs for now though

since im planning to just do EM4 and TD1 for fun rn

since im pretty confident i'll beat that consistently

[bronze stratus]

hey y'all

how does one use the base sword well

in terms of combat, as well as building

(I'm trying to do a winning run on NG so no mirror talents or aspects or keepsakes)

[daring hedge]

cruel thrust is a bit more of an option with the increased attack speed, but honestly, dash-strike spam to special weaving with double-edge might still be your best bet

ah for a fresh file, then

full standard combo is pretty risky to pull off a lot of the time on bosses and armored foes, you can typically do all but the thrust into dash-strike

sword special is still solid all around, so you can try to gun for a good boon on it and go special heavy

[bronze stratus]

I've found dash-strike -> special works well

[daring hedge]

very

it's the bread and butter for nemesis but definitely applies to base zag sword too

[bronze stratus]

the first run seems to always give athena and artemis

should I go ath dash first and then go from there?

[daring hedge]

would say so, yeah

especially with only one dash

you'll really want the extra insurance

[bronze stratus]

ooh okay, artemis

special, cast or pressure points

I'm tempted to go either pp or special

taking special

[barren sable]

was just watching the 57 heat run, kinda bonkers that the rng runs chamber to chamber

cant wait for the 61 heat run lmao

[tidal flame]

57 heat run is routed, not that the run is easy to do, but it's not your typical run, just fyi

[barren sable]

I read the comments, still insane

[tidal flame]

for sure!

[bronze stratus]

welp

made it to lernie on a NG run

got him down to 40% too

[fair trout]

managed to do a sword run in 21 mins

ty for the advice lmfao

first time i just tried to go fast

[restive marten]

Just finished my 32 heat run, thanks for the advice chat

[somber rose]

what's a good setup for 32h excaibur?

which boons?

[daring hedge]

greater consecration is a priority hammer for high heat excalibur

either aphro or artemis attack would work well on it

[mossy zinc]

Heartbreak Strike, Deadly Strike, Divine Strike. Any of those, ideally.

I take Heartbreak Strike every time, personally.

Then go for Zeus' Aid + Smoldering Air.

Excalibur builds God Gauge slowly, so the benefit from adding Smoldering Air on it is huge.

For Dash, just go with Divine Dash.

[somber rose]

JFC finished meg with 2 seconds left on the clock X_X

[mossy zinc]

Special and Cast don't really matter, so you can splash whatever god you want there.

E.g., if you get another good Call like Dionysus' Aid instead, you can splash Thunder Flourish or Electric Shot to unlock Smoldering Air.

If you go with Deadly Strike, it's a good idea to splash Heartbreak Flourish to unlock Heart Rend and have a good way to apply Weak in an AOE at the same time.

For Divine Strike, splashing Deadly Flourish or True Shot will unlock Deadly Reversal and give you a good core boon at the same time.

JFC finished meg with 2 seconds left on the clock X_X
If that's an issue, lower TD, or lower JS CP DC.

[somber rose]

I had a winning run on my hands but got screwed over by styx rng

the sack was in the very last path...

[vocal abyss]

That can happen? Huh.

[tidal flame]

It's called getting 5sack

It's sad to see

[ruby cipher]

5uck

[mossy zinc]

5ack.

2Pac, 3ack, 4ack, 5ack.

Everybody wants 2Pac.

[ruby cipher]

6lack

[mossy zinc]

2Pac is a ThugZag Life.

[finite valve]

Just took a look at the LB, funny how there's a 53 Heat clear with Athena special on Beowulf aspect when you were adamant about the fact that only Aphro special could clear that kind of heat 🙂

[mossy zinc]

It be like that.

[finite valve]

Yeah too bad you had to argue for so long it wasn't possible and spread that knowledge of yours all over that channel to prove me how wrong I was he...

[mossy zinc]

It be like that.

I said I don't think it's viable and that sub-50 experience doesn't really apply to 50+.

I still stand by sub-50 not really applying to 50+. It's very different.

[finite valve]

"I don't want to admit I was wrong so I'm gonna twist words"

Jesus

[mossy zinc]

No.

[finite valve]

W/e

[mossy zinc]

lol

[finite valve]

You busted my balls for an hour because I said that run was possible

[tidal flame]

🍿

[mossy zinc]

I've admitted many times that I'm wrong. I don't really know what you're looking for here.

Obviously I was wrong about it being viable. That's implied.

[finite valve]

Nothing, just having fun sticking it to you because you went on about it for so long just because I said such a run was possible and you used these fancy spreadsheets of yours to demonstrate your point

[mossy zinc]

Okay then.

It doesn't really bother me that I was wrong. I learn, too.

My "fancy spreadsheets" highlighted that the DPS is way lower. That's still true.

¯_(ツ)_/¯

My premise that lower DPS makes it not viable was false. The evidence that the DPS is lower wasn't. I don't think it's bad to provide evidence for my argument.

But if you think that's bad, okay.

I'd think it'd have been rude to just disagree without explaining my reasoning and showing what evidence I have for it.

[static plover]

if this argument/discussion is to continue please take it to DM's

[alpine dirge]

32 HEAT COMPLETED

[mossy zinc]

🥳

💣

🎆

[alpine dirge]

i cheesed it a bit but still proudXD

[static plover]

[alpine dirge]

my stats look funny now.
every weapon: max heat completed 2-6 and between 2-7 runs
adamant rail: 37 runs 32 HEAT

[static plover]

noice

[mossy zinc]

There's no "cheese" for difficult content.

If it's effective, that's just good strategy.

You wanna put your best foot forward for high heat.

my stats look funny now.
every weapon: max heat completed 2-6 and between 2-7 runs
adamant rail: 37 runs 32 HEAT
It was similar for me with Malphon lol. I had 32 and then 41 with Malphon, and the others were all low like that.

[alpine dirge]

boah 40+ looks really really scary nowXD

[mossy zinc]

I think 32 to 40 is somehow both a bigger leap than you would think and also a smaller leap than you would think lol.

Like, if you can do 32, you can do 40. But it might require more practice than you might expect.

But there have been players who struggled with 32, then did 40 like first try or second try lol.

[alpine dirge]

lol

[mossy zinc]

You already practice dealing with similar pacts at 32 that you've got to deal with at 40, and you need to be good at the boss fights.

So 40 is just . . . more of that, with often a bit more limited build.

[alpine dirge]

its jsut the few extra pacts i will add to 40 are huge.

i didnt used lc and em3

[mossy zinc]

You can ignore LC for 40.

EM3 is just one fight to practice (or get a lucky build and steamroll it).

[alpine dirge]

yeahXD

[mossy zinc]

How many DDs did you need in the Hades fight for 32?

[alpine dirge]

0 XD

[mossy zinc]

Then you should be fine with Stubborn Defiance + LC4.

That's already 36 Heat.

Add EM3 if you only had EM2 before, and you'll have 39.

[alpine dirge]

i healed a lot duriong the normal areas

[mossy zinc]

You can heal frequently with Stubborn Defiance.

Even with LC4.

And the money you spent on healing items, you get to spend on Centaur Hearts or boons instead.

[forest lichen]

I almost won 32 heat with shield of zeus

but

[mossy zinc]

Ahh . . . what killed you?

[forest lichen]

that playstyle does not extend to Tight Deadline

last boss

[alpine dirge]

rip

[forest lichen]

well actually satyr tunnels

left me nearly dead

entered final room with no Dd and like 14 hp so that was a formality

[mossy zinc]

Oh.

[alpine dirge]

yeah sometimes satyr tunnels deal no damage soemtimes they kill youXD

[mossy zinc]

Stubborn Defiance will solve that.

[forest lichen]

yeah I'll probably switch to that

[mossy zinc]

Can do LC4, too, if you use SD.

Then you can take 4 Heat off something else.

[forest lichen]

also the one that deals more damage with first hit instead of backstab

although zeus shield...

tough choices

[mossy zinc]

I imagine that one didn't matter too much.

You made it to the final boss, after all. Problems seemed to be elsewhere.

[mossy zinc]

@daring hedge what is up with Serrated Point that I always get hit from Hades's 2 swings before the spin even if I have Divine Dash?

Wow, that's annoying.

I get hit while in dash.

[bronze viper]

I also get sad-mad when Athena doesn't bless me with literal invulnerability lol. Idk.

I've had similar happen to me. I don't know the rules of deflect

Or frame windows I guess

[mossy zinc]

It doesn't happen to me without Serrated Point. I haven't had issues with those 2 swings in forever.

[sullen valve]

On average, how long do 63 heat runs take?

Wait scratch that

[tribal eagle]

Tell us if you find out

[sullen valve]

I forgot about overtime

So no one has done it?

Or even attempted to?

[mossy zinc]

Nobody does 63 Heat, no.

[sullen valve]

You'd have to do it with rail then, probably "L" aspect

[mossy zinc]

?

Lucifer aspect sucks.

[bronze viper]

Um...

[sullen valve]

It does yes

[tribal eagle]

I don't think 63 heat is remotely going to happen anytime soon

[sullen valve]

But the idea is to break through the shields

Any weapon with a lot of hits works really

[mossy zinc]

Well, good luck.

[tribal eagle]

The shields aren't the issue

[bronze viper]

DC2 is not the gatekeeper of max heat lol

[mossy zinc]

I don't know how to respond to that. What's the highest heat you've done?

[sullen valve]

20~

I could go higher

[mossy zinc]

Mine is 52.

[tribal eagle]

(now that I've cleared story, I can get back to pushing to 32 heat )

[mossy zinc]

@bronze viper has done 49.

The highest done without routing before 1.0 was 54 Heat.

[sullen valve]

I can't do 63 though just because I'm unsure how || hades || works on extreme measures.

Or attempt to really :D

[mossy zinc]

Well, why not try something like 32 first before you even begin to worry about 63? Get that Skelly prize.

[bronze viper]

In the case of max heat, the biggest issues are vaguely TD3, RI4, RI3, AP2

There are plenty of others that come up before 2 blue hearts are even remotely in the equation

[mossy zinc]

Well.

DC2 did keep us from beating 55+ before 1.0. So it's certainly an issue.

But that was DC2 after everything else.

[sullen valve]

Im just saying, dc2 prevents you from using burst builds easily.

[bronze viper]

Oh yeah, for sure DC2 matters, but it's not the stopgap at the moment. We haven't even come close theorycrafting a perfect build that at max heat can complete in under 20 minutes

[mossy zinc]

Mostly the combination of DC2 JS3 CP2 TD2.

Should probably worry about solving 50+ anywhere near reliably before we worry about anything 60+ lol.

I can tell you from personal experience that Lucifer Aspect is genuine trash at 50+.

[bronze viper]

And once we do come up with an idea, will it work with AP2 and RI1

[mossy zinc]

I've tried it. I wanted my Titan Blood back.

Eris would do way better.

[sullen valve]

Wouldn't you just force a zeus/poseidon build with demeter perhaps?

[bronze viper]

No

[mossy zinc]

Beowulf still seems like the best choice to me even with the Charged Flight nerf.

[sullen valve]

Demeter aspect*

[mossy zinc]

Poseidon?

[bronze viper]

Fists will not be aspect to do it lol

[sullen valve]

What's wrong with poseidon?

Poseidon seems to be the most powerful offensive set, provided you don't get hit

[mossy zinc]

Not even close.

[bronze viper]

Poseidon's Aid? Nothing it's one of the best boons in the game. The rest, is complete trash

[mossy zinc]

I'll take Poseidon's Aid and Hydraulic Might. Keep the rest.

Actually.

Tidal Dash is great. But not my first choice.

[bronze viper]

I'm not speaking from a "well everything can work to have fun" sense. From a high heat optimization standpoint, Poseidon is awful

[sullen valve]

How so?

[static plover]

A big problem with high heat is a significant amount of options that would have worked at lower heats simply don't work for one reason or another

[scarlet yoke]

DC2 isn't an issue until you meet flame wheel chariots :/ (and with fists)

[mossy zinc]

Because he's not Lady Athena or Lady Aphrodite. That's the answer.

[sullen valve]

Athena sure, but aphro... why aphro?

Is it because you'll inevitably take damage?

[mossy zinc]

She has the highest +% damage.

Weak is also great.

She also has Life Affirmation.

And Smoldering Air.

[bronze viper]

Knockback doesn't work on bosses, Knockback makes it harder to chain stun normals and elites, lowers you effective dps. Poseidon offers one of the worst attack type bonuses. Poseidon has a huge number of atrocious tier 2 and 1 boons, one of which is unsellable. All of those matter for AP2

[sullen valve]

I'm surprised call does that much dps (considering smoldering air is used)

[mossy zinc]

It's not necessarily used. The odds that you get it are very low.

[sullen valve]

I figured rupture would be invaluable

[mossy zinc]

You can rely on 1 hammer (because you have a seed), and 1–2 boons.

[bronze viper]

Common Pos Aid level 1 is still amazing

[mossy zinc]

The odds of even getting Rupture are way too low. You can't rely on t2 boons at heat that high.

[bronze viper]

You can't even rely on getting Poseidon lol.

[mossy zinc]

Like I said, you can rely on 1–2 core boons, maybe 3 if you're lucky.

[bronze viper]

To use a keepsake on him would mean you're not using a keepsake for Athena, Aphro, or Artemis

[mossy zinc]

Use keepsake on him, get Ocean's Bounty and Sunken Treasure. GGs.

With some luck you'll get Huge Catch next time you see him.

If you make it that far after having to sell your 1 other boon.

[crisp sage]

How do you beat hades i Extreme measure? I can't even see where he is.

[bronze viper]

Lots of practice

Like a lot. Make a temp save

There's no tricks. It's a giant pile of have a lot (A LOT) of damage and gitting very gud

[sullen valve]

well i tried a run at 52 heat; it's honestly not necessarily so bad, you just have to be fast on your toes and be very deliberate with where you move or dash; something I don't really have the focus or patience to do. Tight deadline is the only factor that forces you to get a very particular run that has absurd damage. Otherwise without it, it's a matter of taking your time. Is it a fair tactic? Perhaps not, but it's technically allowed.

to some extent, it's possible to train yourself to avoid nearly everything that comes at you

[shadow zodiac]

well thats the thing abt high heat runs

[bronze viper]

Let us know when you finish it :) We're rooting for you.

[shadow zodiac]

but gl

[sullen valve]

meh. i could try to finish it

[shadow zodiac]

record it

[sullen valve]

i might just go rail and idle it

[shadow zodiac]

and self promo it

gg

[mossy zinc]

Is it just me or is Fist 4 DPS kinda bad?

[vocal abyss]

It's just you.

[mossy zinc]

No, I'm pretty sure it's bad.

[bronze viper]

I wish dash strike hit a wee bit harder, and dash upper cancelling a wee lot faster.

But otherwise I do really like the aspect

Oh, and make Maim a thing lol

It doesn't feel like a thing at the moment

[mossy zinc]

I really think it's bottom tier.

Pre-1.0 Zag Sword was better.

[bronze viper]

That's a take lol. I don't think it's that bad but I haven't used it much.

[rapid basalt]

Guys I just can't seem to win on 32 heat :(

Give me your best brainless strategy

[crystal iron]

what weapon are you most comfortable with?

[rapid basalt]

I seem to do best with the 3rd aspect on fists

[mossy zinc]

@bronze viper I've been beating my head at JS3 CP2 DC2 TD3 for the past couple hours, and I've made it out of Tartarus once.

And you're right, Maim doesn't exist.

Dash-Strikes don't exist, either.

Er.

Dash-Uppers.

[rapid basalt]

I also have difficulty adapting to Stubborn Defiance, I think it kind of makes me play poorly because I know I can die in every room. I never really seem to build up a high 'stack' in high heat again and just chain die every room

But equally, with Death Defiance I feel like I need patty to ever have a chance of winning

[mossy zinc]

@rapid basalt Owl Pendant. Get Divine Strike + Divine Dash + Deadly Flourish, then get Deadly Reversal and Support Fire.

[rapid basalt]

With 3rd aspect on fists or as a general strategy on anything?

[mossy zinc]

For Demeter Aspect.

[rapid basalt]

Thanks, I'm mostly aiming to get divine dash to start most runs anyway, it offers to much survivability even in Tartarus already it's crazy

I've done EM4 on around 20 heat - not sure if I want to have it on for my 32 heat attempts, feels like you are just delaying a lot of the difficulty and will lose some heartbreaking run right at the end

[mossy zinc]

Hunter Dash instead of Divine Dash is a good choice, too, and unlocks Support Fire, but you'll still want Deadly Flourish to unlock Deadly Reversal.

[rapid basalt]

But taking it off also allows me to do some slow cheese build with Rama or something

[mossy zinc]

No idea. I haven't unlocked EM4 yet.

[rapid basalt]

Without TD at all

[scarlet yoke]

I wouldn't use SD on 32, I'd still stick with DD

[rapid basalt]

What's the Divine Strike for @mossy zinc? I tend to try and get Zeus, Demeter or Dio attack with fists

Just general survivability during mashing and high damage multiplier?

[mossy zinc]

For Deflects, yeah.

[rapid basalt]

Another thing, Wringer with high levels of forced overtime (via pact or via benefits package) is really tilting, is that just me?

You pretty much have to be hitting dodges on them to safely damage then, can't just dash away and damage them

Like you have to bait them out

[mossy zinc]

Yeah, but that's not very difficult.

They're super predictable.

Just gotta practice.

[rapid basalt]

Folk who are on the spreadsheet with the high heat runs, how many hours have you put into the game?

Cause I'm about 110 hours in and I feel like I have far to go

[mossy zinc]

500 now, I think?

[honest kernel]

uuuh 150

[mossy zinc]

But I had a lot less when I did 41 for the first time.

@bronze viper it has so many bad hammers.

[honest kernel]

I def had less on my first 41

[mossy zinc]

Mostly because it's Dash-Upper doesn't exist. It's bad.

[plain basalt]

on the fence about chaos shield

[rapid basalt]

What's with 41? :o

[honest kernel]

idk

41 sounds nicer than 40

[mossy zinc]

||Rending Claws|| is useless because ||Maim|| is bad and Dash-Uppers have too much recovery.

[uncut wigeon]

Gilgamesh feels like its about frontloading regular attack

[plain basalt]

can someone tell me why I'd use chaos shield over zagreus shield?

[honest kernel]

bc you throw 5 shields instead of one

which is more dmg and more procs

[uncut wigeon]

Thats a weird question.

[plain basalt]

idk I feel like I kill things faster by just smacking them with zag shield

[honest kernel]

crowd control

[uncut wigeon]

And a cool sound effect when you toss the activated special.

[honest kernel]

also yeah I tried fists 4 and found it pretty 😬

[plain basalt]

I'll try it for a 32 heat run

[honest kernel]

but I dont like fists in general so theres that

[tidal flame]

The combo is bullrush special

That's it

[plain basalt]

guessing I should use zeus or aphrodite

[tidal flame]

Zag shield can do the same

But it sucks

[uncut wigeon]

But if you soend all the titan blood

Base attack on Zag shield is 40

[plain basalt]

yeah

I got both maxed

[mossy zinc]

Made it out of Tartarus with 11.37 seconds with Epic Curse of Agony and Breaching Cross. Wow.

[tidal flame]

11.37 second?

Left or in total?

[mossy zinc]

?

[tidal flame]

Because I don't believe the latter

[mossy zinc]

Then I don't need to answer that lol.

If you eliminate the impossible . . .

[tidal flame]

Well that was a joke. I need more context for what you said.

[mossy zinc]

The context is Fists 4 sucks.

Or maybe it's TD3 that sucks.

[austere cape]

wow take that back

[mossy zinc]

Never.

[austere cape]

are you trying to bully me

because it is working

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/uSsvBwLQXZ-JhARzoR6itIVRkmk=/69x0:856x525/920x613/filters:focal(69x0:856x525):format(webp)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/50263513/Screen_Shot_2016-08-01_at_12.34.21_PM.0.0.png

[uncut wigeon]

You made it out of tartarus in 4 mins and new fists sucks?

🤔

[austere cape]

me when I hear people disrespect Fists 4th

[uncut wigeon]

Nyaa doesnt like Gilgahype fists because Maim sucks

[austere cape]

that's why we have Rolling Knuckle

for less maim more RIP AND TEAR

[ivory glacier]

I have a silly question

Do i need to go high heat if the payout is the same?

[tidal flame]

No

[mossy zinc]

Well, I found the one build on it that actually works. https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725021639506526249/759810483926073364/Hades_659.png?width=814&height=458

[tidal flame]

Merciful End

[mossy zinc]

Don't think anything else is reasonable with it on high heat unless you lower TD.

[wanton plover]

i can mostly adapt to FO2 except for when cow tries to ram into me. i get hit by that move without fail. any tips?

on em3

[mossy zinc]

Ya, fight him between a pillar and the wall.

[daring hedge]

@mossy zinc for phase 2 swings before spin, with serrated I just dash behind him entirely at the start of that string and follow him from the back until he's done with the spin

[mossy zinc]

Dash through him, he'll try to do a 180 and crash into either the pillar or the wall.

@daring hedge thanks. I guess I might have to practice the fight quite a bit with Serrated Point.

Right now with Guan Yu and Serrated Point, I can make it all the way there in record time, then die lol.

[daring hedge]

Lol

Yeah some dodging rhythms are a little different there especially

[mossy zinc]

On the plus side, I used have trouble hitting TD with Guan Yu, but now I make TD3 easily.

That's without JS etc., though.

[rapid basalt]

@mossy zinc https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/219474460606988288/759820157740253204/20200927175007_1.jpg got there thanks to your build advice - thanks a lot!

[mossy zinc]

Yay! Good job!

🥳

[rapid basalt]

Little bit of carpal tunnel though :D

[forest nebula]

that's.. really bright

ow, my eye hurts now

[tame cedar]

Question for the high heat runners

Is there a consensus on the matter of Priveleged Status vs. Family Favorite, or does it come down to preference?

[mossy zinc]

Well, it's pretty straightforward.

Privileged Status only does anything when you have two status curses, so builds that do that prefer Privileged Status.

Otherwise, you take Family Favorite.

[tame cedar]

...Can I ask a really stupid question?

[mossy zinc]

I don't know if you can. Give it a try.

[tame cedar]

Like... how do you know before you even start a run? Aside from taking a keepsake, you have no control over what kind of build you'll be going for, right?

All depends on what boon-givers you get passed.

[mossy zinc]

Skip gods you don't want, switch keepsakes before Asphodel.

Persuasion to reroll boons in order to get what you want.

[tame cedar]

I thought Olympian keepsakes only tuned the first boon you got each run? You can equip a new one to tune your first drop in each region?

[mossy zinc]

They force the next boon to be from that god. If you skip it, the next boon after that will be from that god. Until you pick it up or switch keepsakes.

There's a little 1 under your keepsake. That shows 1 usage.

Once that's used up, it still gives the rarity boost but won't force the god again.

When you switch to a new god keepsake, that one will have 1 charge.

This is more just general build strategy than high heat strategy, mind you.

[tame cedar]

Well I feel like a dumdum

For having already put a hundred plus hours into the game. 🤣

[mossy zinc]

I learn new things all the time. No worries.

[tame cedar]

Thanks. 🙂

[limpid nymph]

I wonder if 4th fists can ever be worth it just for the extra dashes? You can run RI without as much worry, and maybe use casts with maim? Although I guess you need a way to get the casts to drop which requires hermes anyway

I also wonder what would make using the aspect worth it for high heat

[forest nebula]

I wish for the sweet release of death cus god I can only defeat EM4 with bow

[mossy zinc]

@limpid nymph have you actually tried RI3 with the aspect?

Sounds like a bad idea to me.

I've tried several builds with it today on JS3 CP2 DC2 TD3 EM2. The only one that worked was Breaching Cross + Merciful End.

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725021639506526249/759810483926073364/Hades_659.png?width=814&height=458

The aspect seems great for ME and for Breaching Cross, but that's it.

Special seems unusable tbh.

Like pre-1.0-Volley bad.

Except most of the hammers are for the Special lol.

You can't combo Dash-Strike into Dash-Upper with just one dash because the dash is too short.

So that use of it is off the table.

And for everything else, Special was always too risky to use unless you have Demeter Aspect.

With Talos, you only use the pull, ideally, and immediately cancel into Dash to avoid the Uppercut.

[somber rose]

I'm liking the setup I'm using right now for 32h. Finished with 3 more aspects today. I wanna try Excalibur next. Which boons are hammers are recommended?

[mossy zinc]

Heartbreak Strike, Deadly Strike, or Divine Strike.

Divine Dash or Hunter Dash.

Personally, I would go for Heartbreak Strike + Divine Dash + Zeus' Aid and get Smoldering Air.

But you could do that with Divine Strike and Heartbreak Flourish, too.

As in, Divine Strike + Heartbreak Flourish + Divine Dash + Zeus' Aid.

[somber rose]

and for fists?

[mossy zinc]

Just Deflect on everything.

• Deadly Flourish and get Deadly Reversal + Support Fire.

[uncut wigeon]

Which one is deadly reversal?

[bronze viper]

Crit chance on deflect

[uncut wigeon]

Ah

[mossy zinc]

Or get Curse of Agony + Divine Dash + Divine Flourish, and get Merciful End.

[uncut wigeon]

🤔

[limpid nymph]

@limpid nymph have you actually tried RI3 with the aspect?
@mossy zinc no, so I'll take your word for it. I was just wondering how helpful having extra dashes is in a run

[mossy zinc]

If you use Fists 4, just do Merciful End. Every other build I tried on it seemed bad.

The dashes are super short. It's not that great defensively.

[uncut wigeon]

What do you feel fist 4 needs to be good?

[limpid nymph]

oh I didn't know that

[mossy zinc]

Merciful End.

lol

The way it's designed right now, it's probably the best melee aspect for Merciful End.

[somber rose]

why zeus aid?

[limpid nymph]

oh I thought you meant that it should be part of the aspect lol

[mossy zinc]

Because you need a core boon from him and any Call to unlock Smoldering Air.

[somber rose]

oh

[mossy zinc]

So you might as well get that and kill two shades with one boon.

[uncut wigeon]

Smoldering Air + Artemis Call = 😩

[mossy zinc]

I think that's how the saying goes.

[limpid nymph]

um sure

I think the message is just not to take aphro call with smoldering air. Ever.

[mossy zinc]

Actually no, that's great.

[limpid nymph]

oh really?

[mossy zinc]

Can just perma-charm enemies including bosses lol.

With enough poms on it.

[limpid nymph]

oh that's interesting

[mossy zinc]

But on Excalibur, you benefit way more from Heartbreak Strike or Flourish than you would from Lightning Strike or Thunder Flourish.

[somber rose]

because you get hit more? 😛

[limpid nymph]

cause it's super strong prolly

[mossy zinc]

Because she has the highest +% boons.

[somber rose]

i thought demeter had the highest?

[mossy zinc]

Nope.

[somber rose]

Which are like the easiest aspects to finish 32 heat in your opinion?

[mossy zinc]

Attack: Heartbreak > Deadly, Divine, Frost > Tempest
Special: Heartbreak > Deadly, Tempest > Divine, Frost

For % damage.

[limpid nymph]

I think I'm confused on artemis. Is that with the average amount of crits you'll be getting or something?

[mossy zinc]

Yeah, that's averaged for crits.

Excalibur, Hestia, Beowulf, Demeter. No idea for bow and spear.

[limpid nymph]

gotcha

[mossy zinc]

If you get Merciful End on Fists 4, it should actually be pretty easy.

Well, maybe that + Breaching Cross. I need more experience with it still.

Breaching Cross + ME was good enough for JS3 CP2 DC2 TD3, anyway. So it should shred through TD3 without JS etc.

Or easily beat TD2 with JS etc.

But that was with Epic Curse of Agony, too, and quite a few poms on it.

[limpid nymph]

got it

[daring hedge]

@somber rose for spear and bow, probably charged skewer or spin-centric GY, and post-1.0 twin shot rama respectively

[mossy zinc]

I wanted to say Guan Yu, but those Serrated Point runs I had today destroyed my confidence in it.

[tidal flame]

just did 32 heat Rama attack build

I take back whatever I said about it

but twinshot is kinda needed imo, although that's basically every bow

[tardy path]

Yo dude TD 3 with Rama?

Teach meh pls

[daring hedge]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/654076105321480226/759872932162961468/20200927152240_1.jpg

EM4 rama complete!

at 48

[tardy path]

LMAO

[bronze viper]

<3

[tardy path]

WTF GUYS

TEACH ME

[bronze viper]

Rama is so dank this patch. I only did 2 in a row but I'm fairly certain I could continue a 40 unseeded streak

[daring hedge]

oh for sure, it's so consistently great

even though i'm always taking twin shot, it really does love a lot of hammers doesn't it

perfect, triple, explosive, point-blank, etc

[bronze viper]

Relentless Volley + Dio still works as well, though I'd never bother seeding for it anymore.

[forest nebula]

Tailesque is beast wtf

[hollow lynx]

sigh ig i should start playing rama huh

[daring hedge]

yes you should

[tidal flame]

tail is a beast

can confirm

[hollow lynx]

both you and fox got good wins with rama 😭

[daring hedge]

it's so fun... a bow with a chunky attack and a special that is far from a waste of time

and you can just build on both in one run and do fine

i know regular bow special got buffed but still

it is kind of a waste of time, a lot of the time

[tidal flame]

@tardy path I just build it like a Zag Bow

Play it like a Zag Bow except you weave special in once in a while

[honest kernel]

nice run gotta love those bow buffs

[daring hedge]

thanks, yeah they're so well deserved honestly

[honest kernel]

I remember when I tried to make rama a thing in bloodprice

and then ledgerguy made it a thing

but now its actually really legit

[somber rose]

having trouble with both fists and excelibur. mainly because you have to be close and commit to an attack

[wanton plover]

you can smack a guy and dash and continue the combo

for me it was helpful to watch youtube vids of ppl using it

dont get greedy for damage, just dodge until you feel safe to go in and wail and then get out

[somber rose]

not easy to be patient under TD2

[royal wagon]

for Zag bow: artemis attack or aphro? and then athena or arty dash?

[daring hedge]

hunter dash is much better for optimal dash-strike bow play, but divine dash is still good if you want more safety and don't need the damage

i'd definitely go aphro attack over artemis for zag bow

[royal wagon]

gotcha,. just tried 32 heat with arty attack and athena dash, got to lernie and gave up because it was not a good combo lol

[daring hedge]

yeah, that combo can be somewhat underwhelming unless you were to get deadly reversal from prereqs later on

though twin shot hammer can almost single-handedly save any attack-oriented bow run

[royal wagon]

tbh that 32 heat run has turned into a 12 heat run with flurry shot so I can finish my bow prophecy lol

but I'm getting used to FO2 again so its still constructive

[royal wagon]

Does spreadshot + zeus attack on rail have an known awful interaction?

it basically turned my rail into fists with a reload after 6 shots

[bronze viper]

Not "awful" just no real interaction unless you hit multiple things

[royal wagon]

I was using Eris so between chasing my special for the buff and the lack of range with spreadshot it was kind of a rough run

spread is usually used with artemis right? or something-that-isn't-zeus

[bronze viper]

Spread shot on Eris is bold

For the reasons you said. And no ammo

Spread is used with Zagreus aspect

And Artemis/Aphro/Athena

[royal wagon]

ah that makes more sense, so it was just a stupid pick and I didnt realize it lol

[bronze viper]

I mean it's not the literal worst. Probably better than seeking

Am I wrong? It feels like completely worthless

[royal wagon]

thats fair, I'll still file that one away as 'probably don't do this'

I haven't seen seeking in a while so can't really say one way or the other

I think I'm going to try and do 32 with all weps as my next challenge so I need to spend some more time with rail though

[scarlet yoke]

I think you can't get seeking on Eris, played many runs without seeing it

[bronze viper]

Why wouldn't you? I definitely saw it this week. Eris is identical to base

[scarlet yoke]

I dont know, just played like 10 runs without seeing it

I was missing it for the profecies so was looking for it, show up when i switced to zag

might have been bad luck though, just my experience

[bronze viper]

Yeah fair. I haven't seen Smoldering Air in the last 5 runs I've been eligible, with God's Legacy up.

Which is kind of whatever, it just downgrades the run from not requiring effort to requiring it.

[daring hedge]

48 EM4 rama run is up in #self-promotion for anyone interested

[bronze viper]

I'm not a hipster anymore :3

Hooray

[daring hedge]

you're the original rama pioneer!

now you get to say you liked rama before it was cool

[frosty gyro]

Thus becoming a hipster again.

[daring hedge]

yeah that was the joke i intended lol

[hollow lynx]

ledger was the rama blueprint

[bronze viper]

Lol, I did like it before it was cool, but 49 was friggen miserable, I needed to get wildly insanely lucky and I burned out from the game for doing it.

[daring hedge]

thank you AP2 for exacerbating these kinds of things

[tidal flame]

I was literally looking up your youtube for that that Tail

[vague fossil]

Also posted my 32 dash-only run in #self-promotion

[tidal flame]

truly mad lad

[scenic tinsel]

What do I have to do to unlock hidden Shield aspect? ||I invested more than 5 titan blood into shield and I have talked to Chaos so many times. Do I need to have the shield equipped when talking to him? He often gave one of his random sentences that probably have way less priority than the secret weapon aspect dialogue.||

[daring hedge]

back when beo came out i also had trouble getting chaos to give me the waking phrase despite meeting all the requirements. i'd recommend meeting with them while using the shield just to be safe, and to just keep taking chaos gates until they crack

that's basically what i did

[scenic tinsel]

okay

just wanted to make sure im doing nothing wrong 🙂

[daring hedge]

yeah, i don't think you are! it seems to be a fairly common problem with getting hidden shield for whatever reason

[forest lichen]

you need to talk to chaos with shield equipped

this might trigger a line

if chaos mentions shield then you can get the unlock next time you speak to them

[daring hedge]

not necessarily

i guess the keyword is can get the unlock

doesn't guarantee it unfortunately

[scenic tinsel]

I actually most of the time talked to him without shield

last time I talked to him with shield I coincidentally had shield of chaos, so he talked about that instead

I assume if I had a different aspect he would have given me the secret aspect

[forest lichen]

nah

if chaos talked to you about shield then you might now get the shield each time you talk to them

no need to carry the shield anymore

[scenic tinsel]

oh

okay

[tidal flame]

@daring hedge running out of time in Tartarus is kinda spicy huh

[daring hedge]

lol yeah that was a little hilarious

i actually considered resetting

[tidal flame]

good thing Rama kills boss fast

[daring hedge]

yeah exactly

taking TD overtime damage during the phase blackout transitions where all i could do was wait felt a little unfair

[static plover]

@scenic tinsel chaos' pronouns are they/them btw

[scenic tinsel]

oh right, forgot 🙂

[tidal flame]

Nice Acorn at Elysium fight

I feel that in my soul

[daring hedge]

lmao

you even saw where before that i circled the ring carefully to avoid that exact thing happening

he always gets me

it's ok though because he got stuck behind a pillar until his chariot broke down. karma

[tidal flame]

dang EM4 went down way faster than I anticipated

Rama chunks

[daring hedge]

absolutely

[tidal flame]

also we need tech to dodge Cerb

I still can't do it consistently

[daring hedge]

though ignoring the first superelite soulcatcher and having 3 total on the field in phase 1 was maybe a mistake

oh i still dodge cerb every time by going lower right like in that run

it was hades himself who got me

just popped up and spun

wait

i'm wrong actually

my plan totally failed and i did get hit by cerb target circle after all

i think? it's hard to tell. a late circle and hades' spin were on top of me at the same time

[tidal flame]

that was 100 damage

I think it was indeed cerb

although that run gives me hope

that is without RI and AP

and you were one green vase away from not using up the Athena DD

the potential is limitless yo

[daring hedge]

yeah that lingering hitbox

[royal wagon]

how do we build Eris for higher heat? I just had a mediocre run with aphro attack and athena special and I'm sure there are better options out there

[tidal flame]

I'll wait for bablo to post his runs and copy that

[daring hedge]

he has a 48 EM4 up!

with poseidon call as a star of the build, benefitting from eris boosts

[royal wagon]

oh wow

because its universal

cool I'll check it out

thanks guys

[daring hedge]

http://puu.sh/Gx5D0/580701d9eb.png can't believe i'm being attacked like this

let me use other weapons ok

[royal wagon]

I love that the best way to use rama is now actually taking advantage of its mechanic

[daring hedge]

for sure, i appreciate weapons that like to use the full kit

some of those including hades, eris, rama ofc

[royal wagon]

also Tails this run is ridiculous I'm watching you time out to first boss atm

[daring hedge]

lmao yeah i very nearly gave up then

glad i didn't!

[royal wagon]

no kidding

[nimble swift]

@scenic tinsel make sure you've also unlocked the other aspects; dumping 5 blood in one won't do it.

[scenic tinsel]

I have 🙂

I got it!

secret shield aspect

[nimble swift]

Is there a current heat record?

[tidal flame]

I have seen 2 48 heat runs with vids

I think that might actually be the max for 1.0

[onyx forge]

It goes up to 63, but I don't think I've ever seen someone actually finish the game at that point.

[royal wagon]

technically Tails run could have been bumped up with AP2, it would be a nightmare to grind it out but...technically?

I think everyone who does high heat is fed up with AP though

rightfully so

[daring hedge]

yeah exactly, AP2 is a big part of why high heat runners start to get burnt out

so we try to avoid it when we can because it's just obnoxious

[royal wagon]

not a great mechanic when you have to take it on top of everything else

fine for a meme 20 heat run or something

[daring hedge]

right, i think as a pact idea it works fine at low heat because the stakes aren't nearly as high

[tidal flame]

I wish AP never existed

[royal wagon]

thats fair lol

[tidal flame]

Just throw it out the window

[daring hedge]

not opposed to that

[royal wagon]

I felt like an ass for say 'well technically'

I would like to not be able to say that

[nimble swift]

If I jack up the heat all at once, do I completly lose the opportunity to get all the level rewards I skipped?

[light sedge]

No

You still get them 1 at a time

[bronze stratus]

didn't used to be the case in EA

[daring hedge]

it was the case, though

going several heat above your next bounty level would still net you the rewards for your lowest available bounty

[bronze stratus]

I remember completing 1 heat and skipping 0 heat and then never being able to get the 0 heat reward

I was so salty

[daring hedge]

0 heat is weird

it has its own bounties that you can skip and do way later

[bronze stratus]

huh.

[hollow lynx]

watching tail's rama run and witnessing hades summon triple butterfly balls lol

[daring hedge]

first summoning: okay i think i can ignore this
second summoning: that was a bad idea!

[potent stump]

Does tail have a stream?

[daring hedge]

i mostly just upload to my yt channel

[hollow lynx]

the butterflies... they're everywhere!

[daring hedge]

but i could stream sometime in the future who knows

butterflies are so scary for rama too like

that dash-strike you were working on? no

[hollow lynx]

gotta admit, i laughed every time you tried to dash strike theseus and got hit by a zeus bolt

[daring hedge]

lmao yeah

[tidal flame]

tail did you give competing in the Hermes Cup any thoughts?

speedrun isn't exactly high heat, but the skills will for sure transfer.

[daring hedge]

oh yeah i think i am mostly interested, i just typically have low self-esteem/confidence when it comes to competing in an environment like that

so i've also been apprehensive

[potent stump]

What's the yt

[tidal flame]

well I am sure it would not be as embarrassing as taking Hazard Bomb on Eris Rail then proceed to die at Hades in a head to head race

[potent stump]

Wouldn't speedrunning be super rng based

[tidal flame]

somewhat, we use seeds to make sure the runners have the same stats. also a mod is used to limit the maximum amount of sacks you get as 3sack max

[potent stump]

ooh

[tidal flame]

also the run is done in real time

[hollow lynx]

getting 3sacked is still humiliating

[daring hedge]

@potent stump yt is this one on this vid https://discordapp.com/channels/456889434672201729/505164873328754688/759920642509635655

unless you meant the hermes cup yt in which case sorry lol

[hollow lynx]

gotta get those views in

[daring hedge]

need my gamerscore 😳

[tidal flame]

also that rama run was yolo unseeded right?

[daring hedge]

yeah, the very first attempt after setting the heat

i was trying to get twin shot for a while but gave up and just went with generic artemis start

[somber rose]

today I learned the hard way to die and spend your stubborn defiance on purpose before you pick the athena boon chamber reward. only that way you may get an extra stubborn defiance for the rest of the run.

[static plover]

It's a death defiance you get from doing that Novril

Those athena boons explicitly say replenish a DD, plus whatever other effect it gives

[thorn jay]

If I'm trying out 32 heat for the first time, which pact of punishments should I take?

[tidal flame]

hard to tell without knowing which weapon or your general approach

[thorn jay]

Well, just the easiest in general. I've got EM3, TD2, HS1, BP2 so far

[tidal flame]

that's a good start. which weapon do you like using??

and aspect, too

[thorn jay]

I like Hera/Chiron Bow, Chaos Shield, Achilles Spear, and Nemesis Sword

Okay I'm at 18 heat so far with EM3, BP2, MM1, DC2, TD2

[tidal flame]

Underworld Custom

[daring hedge]

wait, can even trippy shot backstab with parting shot? from like, aiming it specifically to impact behind enemies?

[tidal flame]

One point in Calisthenics isn't bad

[daring hedge]

or would it not have the capability

since it technically just hits a wide area at once

[thorn jay]

Okay thats 21 heat. How about FO? I've never tried FO2 but I can handle FO1

[tidal flame]

so HL?, LC1, CF2, CP1, UC

If you are not used to FO2 it might be a hurdke

[hollow lynx]

who knows, tail

[tidal flame]

actually with TD2 you can go CP2

[daring hedge]

@hollow lynx i mostly bring this up because it might change aphro/athena/dio rating, but i dunno

[hollow lynx]

you can get parting shot on beowulf!

[daring hedge]

[hollow lynx]

does it work? who knows!

[thorn jay]

How about Jury Summons?

[tidal flame]

so let's say HL2, LC1, CF2, CP1, UC and the rest, how much heat are those?

I really don't like JS

[hollow lynx]

JS is very bad combined with CP when you're trying to beat TD

[tidal flame]

Especially on the weapons you listed

[thorn jay]

Ohhh 32 heat

[tidal flame]

Barring Chaos Shield

[thorn jay]

I've got HL2, LC1, CF2, EM3, CP1, BP2, MM1, UC1, FO1, DC2, TD2 at 29 heat

[tidal flame]

I would just bite the FO2 bullet I guess

unless you are comfortable with HL5

[daring hedge]

also adding JS1 is usually very doable

[thorn jay]

Hmmm I'll try

I'll test out different pacts for the last 3 heat

Thanks!

[tidal flame]

but to me that's a good spread. good luck!