I'm liking the results I see. 
#h1-high-heat-strategies
mossy zinc
bronze viper
Keep in mind too that this measures reaction times for something you expect to see, without a context switch
mossy zinc
This is testing Simple Reaction Time + input lag, yes.
Well.
Response Time, really.
Reaction time is the psychological part. Response time is reaction time + movement time.
bronze viper
I know I'm personally awful at the tests that have matching/mis-matching colors and color names
tidal flame
you don't need more than .34s to play Hades.
mossy zinc
340 msec was what you need for a legendary catch, right?
The engine probably has some frames of input lag, anyway.
scarlet yoke
found out today that how fast you catch affects what you get, I've been chilling with fishing since I found out it was very lenient 🙃
tidal flame
my time is 210ms I'll just be a fisherman.
scarlet yoke
explains why i only have gotten common fish
mossy zinc
It's definitely a better test than the humanbenchmark one. My times are a lot worse on that, so that one definitely has more input lag.
sharp cobalt
It's also harder because you need to worry about false lures.
bronze viper
one more 40 to go, Nemesis don't do me dirty
daring hedge
not bad for a first attempt at this thing 
http://puu.sh/Ge3su/b35f8b7e57.png
bronze viper
Your first attempt is probably your most accurate
You start learning after that lol
bronze viper
For instance, with fish, there's a max amount of time that 4th bob can last, so after some practice, it's not reaction anymore, it's timing
daring hedge
the test randomizes the green timing
there's not really a timing to learn there at all
i agree with fishing, though
that was very easy to just learn when the bobber would tug
bronze viper
Hmm, yeah I guess it's harder to learn without another variable in there somewhere
Other than stuff like holding your mouse better etc,
daring hedge
yeah lol
about to go purchase a mouse that's perfect for this test alone
worth it
bronze viper
lol, i've seen lots of competitive threads in other games where people who just started playing want to know what the best controller/keyboard/mouse is for the game
You... may want to learn the game first
daring hedge
yeah it's always funny when they want to start there instead of with fundamentals or getting rid of bad habits
mossy zinc
There's definitely a practice effect for simple response time tests.
But it's not a strong effect.
foggy ruin
Today on 'screw THIS guy in particular - RNGesus 2020': https://giphy.com/gifs/ZcQv280qfC362MfWXR
Was able to survive the first wave but got clipped in the second. The aspect can pump out the damage, just need to git gudder
tidal flame
Savior is such an exciting, interactive, and fun gameplay mechanic.
mossy zinc
You kinda played that chamber wrong to be honest.
proud jay
40 heat zeus eh?
cloud nebula
What is the right approach to a ton of savior? I had to abandon a chest because I couldn't deal with 12 fast skulls with savior with just a Zag bow.
proud jay
im afraid there's no good answer unless you have anything that hits multiple times
daring hedge
non-rama bow has it very tough with rooms like that, yeah
mossy zinc
You can see in the gif, they ripped the shields from 1 or 2, but then just dashed away to attack other ones.
proud jay
twin strike sort of works
daring hedge
if you have it by that point sure
proud jay
yeah im afraid there's no solid answer
mossy zinc
You need to actually kill one, even if you take some damage in the process.
It will reduce the spread of shields and make it easier to kill the rest.
If you just keep attacking different ones, you never get anywhere.
cloud nebula
The challenge is keeping on one without just eating it immediately
mossy zinc
Also, with a weapon like bow, you generally want to avoid DC2. That way, Savior won't be as bad, either.
proud jay
even going to DC1 for that extra heat is really painful imo
but i guess i'd rather have that than CP1
mossy zinc
It is. Unless you start with Twin Shot, then it's not so bad.
You can "shotgun" with your Special to shred all shields from any enemy.
mossy zinc
DC is just overall bad for most aspects.
proud jay
aspects either handle it no problem or it's really painful
i find
basically if you go zeus or dio it's fine
mossy zinc
Even something as simple as killing Hades's skulls before they explode will turn into a really nasty problem.
Going back to Savior strats, even if you take some damage in the process when "shotgunning" with your Special, you'll shred all its shields and can kill it from there.
Then you'll notice once you have one down, the shield spread will slow down, and things will be a little easier from there.
If you wait too long to be aggressive and focused on a single enemy to kill them, you don't get anywhere and waste both time and probably HP making no progress.
cloud nebula
shotgunning was what I was trying, it was working very slowly
But yeah it took me a minute just to realize how in trouble I was so there were too many mobs up with 4-5 hearts, whatever the max is
mossy zinc
5 is max.
cloud nebula
I'd get a little damage in and then they'd be reshielded to max. Luckily I could just give up and moved on
sharp cobalt
It would probably be for the best if there was a limit on heart granting enemies. Or they ran out of hearts to grant. But until then, the best thing to do is to just bum rush them.
mossy zinc
I'm not a bow player, anyway. @proud jay and @bronze viper are the bow experts. 
cloud nebula
I hate the bow haha, but I go where the darkness is
mossy zinc
I dunno. Savior is most of the time alright tbh.
cloud nebula
Shield and gun tend to be the smoothest runs for me, though spear is my favorite
sharp cobalt
Most of the time.
cloud nebula
I typically don't have a problem with any of the bonus attributes. This was the first time I was straight overwhelmed
mossy zinc
You need to factor in things like Savior and DC when you run those pacts.
I'm more interested in figuring out strategies than complaining that things are too hard.
(Screw White Lernie head slams, though.)
cloud nebula
yeah I expect hard
bronze viper
Savior and DC2 are meaningless for Rama if you go Relentless Volley. Savior is... bad for Zag aspect :3
proud jay
im actually considering going RI3 so i can drop DC1
bronze viper
I thought about it. But a huge chunk of your damage comes from dash strikes, so... better get the positioning right in one?
mossy zinc
I took RI3 and no points in DC for 52.
proud jay
normal strikes is pretty much same dps than dash strikes
bronze viper
It's not really the DPS, it's the 25% longer charge or whatever.
proud jay
if you do normal strikes you can save your dash
proud jay
i mean i normally do only dash-strikes but RI3 forces you to do normals sometimes, which is not as bad as it sounds
kinda depends on the situation though
bronze viper
I hope no one at SGG sees the high heat records with multiple Rama and Zag aspects at 45+ and thinks "hmm, weapon must be fine"
mossy zinc
Maybe the aspects are fine. Maybe the bow mains are just not as good as the shield mains.
bronze viper
Lol, go away with your faster, longer range, higher damaging attacks
proud jay
you're not fun to talk to sometimes
bronze viper
WHO NEEDS EM
mossy zinc
I enjoy looking down from up top, though.
Please nerf bow, Amir. Buff Beowulf instead. I need my buffs.
Maybe I'll try bow again after Malphon.
I can never really make it work for me. But maybe Rama will go well.
bronze viper
There's something truly special about shooting a bow and having the arrow go 2 pixels in front your face
mossy zinc
Lol I played Malphon the most, I kind of stay pretty close with ranged weapons most of the time anyway.
So that should work out.
bronze viper
What's your project right now with Malphon?
mossy zinc
Mostly I'm just thinking the fact it's an unorthodox bow might make it work for me because orthodox bow doesn't.
@bronze viper punching! 
bronze viper
I love the normal bow playstyle too, I'm just not a fan of a dash power shot doing a wee bit more damage than a dash strike on Stygius. That's embarrassing...
trim sigil
GY runs keep dying to EM3 Asterius. Interesting..
My hypothesis is that bull rush is very hard to time the dashes for 
Also the fella doesn't let me spin2win
foggy ruin
I could've dealt well enough with Savior but I'm actually starting to hate Shifter more.
Pulverizing Blow is actually a nice hammer from my runs so far, but I'm more comfortable with Explosive Return
trim sigil
The only correct way is to hate all BP perks equally
(but cloner more because it makes tons more perked enemies)
uncut wigeon
some BP perks make me laugh too hard to hate them
like the one that makes Elysium warriors shatter into a million bombs
😂
honest charm
The Younglady Benefit Package is pretty fun, yeah
proud jay
48 rail done 
mossy zinc
Nice! Congratulations!
proud jay
eris was the hidden op
bronze viper
I was already hating life at 40 with nemesis, but (by naturally dying during attempts... a lot) I found a seed that had Double Edge available on AP1 with a key after it, so I decided to double down and go for 45. I know the math doesn't add up there, and I am starting to question my own sanity.
foggy ruin
I am with you with losing sanities. I decided to keep grinding for an Explosive Return seed with AP2. Let's do this
mossy zinc
141 ms average. 👸🏽
frail crane
Nice!
proud jay
i'd like to join the 50 club
mossy zinc
I'm sure you can do it!
daring hedge
@proud jay which pact options would you enable to potentially push that 48 eris to a 50? (or rather, which did you leave out deliberately) i'm just curious and would love to see eris/rail get to 50 sometime
mossy zinc
Probably just RI3 instead of RI2.
mossy zinc
Ah yeah, I forgot about that.
sharp minnow
When you guys are doing heat runs do you choose heat no matter the rewards on the bottom right?
like will i be getting the rewards of previous heat or do i have to do it all 1 at a time
1 heat rewards, 2 heat rewards, etc
daring hedge
you can only get one tier of bounty heat rewards at a time, regardless of how much higher you go beyond what your bounty is at
so if your highest bounty so far is like, 2 heat, and you complete a 32 heat run, you'll still just complete the 3 heat bounty tier
and then you'll get your 4 heat bounty rewards if you complete a 4 heat run with the weapon, or much, much higher
you don't retroactively get bounty rewards all at once'
shadow zodiac
yes
if you got all bounty rewards together it would be a little brokken
just 20 bounties all at once
sharp cobalt
Would be very funny though.
mossy zinc
You also don't get bounties past 20 anyway (or 25 in Hell mode). As in, the requirements go up to 20 Heat, and then after that, there are no more bounties to get with that weapon.
sharp cobalt
Suddenly, 40 titan bloods.
mossy zinc
Did someone say Snap Nova?
proud jay
@daring hedge adding AP2 would push it to 51
i'm sort of working on bow 50 first though, recently got a pretty good attempt ruined by 4-sack
daring hedge
Yeah, I know AP2 would push it there. Was wondering if you would potentially go with further RI or CP though, especially since you went with none in the latter
proud jay
potentially
i guess
it's quite a flexible weapon and scales well with most things, isn't too hammer specific either
daring hedge
Yup
proud jay
adding both AP2 and CP might get tough
wraith imp
Hi everyone.
After looking at the spreadsheet, I have a question: is there a heroic version of hermes' greatest reflex?
Heroic tier is when one epic boon is swapped for another. But I can't think of anything that would swap for greatest reflex.
So I suppose another version of my question is "can eurydice upgrade epic greatest reflex?"
proud jay
i don't think i've done any 40+ runs with CP1 yet
sharp cobalt
Eurydice can.
proud jay
has someone actually seen a heroic +dashes?
daring hedge
You should try it, it's not really noticeable except with champs or hades
sharp cobalt
I've seen a heroic Side Hustle? If that helps.
proud jay
it's tough to finish elysium on time most of the time
bronze viper
I don't think I have personally, but yeah, I've seen plenty of heroic Hermes stuff
wraith imp
She can? Interesting.
I also asked because last night hermes gave me epic tier dash in tartarus, i saw eurydice in asphodel, gambled, and it hit other boons.
wraith imp
Got it. Cool to know.
bronze viper
Unless you're like Merciful End or Nemesis
daring hedge
It was during a run that didn't need it at all, but Eurydice decided, so sure
tidal flame
can you reroll poms with Fated Persuation?
proud jay
i'd like to say yes but i don't think i've done that
sharp cobalt
I did it today.
tidal flame
I could have sworn I rerolled poms before, too
but I am seeing a screen right now
with 3 rerolls and no reroll option
bronze viper
@tidal flame I'm glad someone else has seen this
That's definitely happened to me before, with plenty of other boons
daring hedge
And you're sure it's not because the other boons can't scale, or simply from having too few boons for reroll to do anything?
misty bough
Is the Zagarus bow n arrow any decent for high heat runs?
proud jay
49 heat has been completed with it which is one of the highest
not many have gone past that
guys wanna know what is painful? dying to hades ~10% at 54 heat
frail crane
Oof
proud jay
getting through champions made me go like a minute overtime after TD ran out
getting enough damage on chaos shield is rly hard
also i guess i could practice one dash hades fight before actually attempting this
gonna upload this anyway just to showcase 54 chaos is doable
proud jay
the thing is i go dio since i feel like it's better than zeus against high health enemies
but it's hard to increase the damage
trim sigil
Calcs to the rescue tbh
Comparing lvl 2 rare specials for example
8 dmg hangover vs 48? dmg lightning
80 dps vs hellifiknowhowoftenlightningstrikes 
But zeus also has jolted so that's another variable
proud jay
jolted is hard to get and sucks as common
hangover seems a lot more consistent
anyways, 49 hestia done meanwhile
mossy zinc
Totally not out of context, I swear. https://clips.twitch.tv/PatientArtisticSquidKeyboardCat
trim sigil
Clearly, the zap zap clan has been holding him hostage to say that
foggy ruin
Y'know what would get Lightning Rod out of meme territory? If lightning struck whomever the bloodstone's stuck in. Make it stack for multiple bloodstones
frail crane
Stacking might be a bit much, but that would be cool
cyan stag
Would you couple that with a buff or a debuff to stick duration?
cyan stag
Besides, I would actually support stacking.
The game lacks a mechanic to reward multiple bloodstones in an enemy, and if that is confined to a certain duo boon, then it won't break the game.
proud jay
that's a lot of athena
mossy zinc
Top secret.
proud jay
fists is my guess
robust zephyr
I would like to refrain from using an overused meme to describe this situation
that you can probably already guess
mossy zinc
Would have been an easy run if not for teleporting Flamewheels + elite Chariots in the last encounter before the boss chamber. 
Well, assuming sack RNG would have been on my side.
robust zephyr
nice double touch of styx
mossy zinc
Yeah, Patroclus right before the shop.
robust zephyr
Thats always a monumental sight to see in elysium
mossy zinc
I went into that fight with 1 min 8 sec remaining.
robust zephyr
I went to that fight with 30 seconds many times needless to say it did not go well
proud jay
here's another yikes situation
https://imgur.com/Kvacxkj
robust zephyr
was this chaos shield?
proud jay
yeah
robust zephyr
Just need to wait for SGG to balance perks a little more and maybe listen to community complaints about elysium's length. Then we can go to 57 heat without falling over.
proud jay
there's no points handed anyway
robust zephyr
I mean we finally broke the 50 heat gap with Blood Price Update changes
mossy zinc
First chamber took nearly two minutes because Bruiser Speeder Greatshields.
proud jay
some chambers in elysium just take way too long
3 waves with splitters takes forever even if you kill them fast
robust zephyr
Yeah elysium chambers can be really disparate in terms of time. You could take 30 seconds or 3 minutes (maybe even longer if you dont have good dmg)
the room layouts are also so damn big
mossy zinc
That's because Splitters spawn so spread out. You have to kill them one at a time and dash a mile inbetween them.
robust zephyr
Yeah thats also made worse by JS3 making extra spawns in between waves
proud jay
actually with splitters i meant the perk that spawns extra spirits, the the actual splitter enemies (didn't even know they're called that)
mossy zinc
Speeder Greatshields you can barely engage at all. They're way too fast for how safe they are.
proud jay
they aren't great
robust zephyr
Not to mention how precise you have to be to even dmg them
mossy zinc
And then with Bruiser on top of that, you can't even stunlock them.
robust zephyr
And JS3 plants more of these time-consuming monsters to eat your soul
mossy zinc
The perk, by the way, is Popper.
mossy zinc
I think Popper is okay. The upside of Popper is that they don't get any other second perk instead.
Instead of Slugger Seeker Strongbows, you just get Slugger Popper or Seeker Popper.
proud jay
that's fair i guess
mossy zinc
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12_2L5sZGreuR-1MElSpPiVK6893SIq_oXp8AelLVvco/edit?usp=sharing
@daring hedge @bronze viper @frail crane @tidal flame you all made the leaderboard.
@proud jay @robust zephyr you two should take the test, too. I wanna see some numbers. https://www.arealme.com/reaction-time-test/en/
cyan stag
Neat. I got 180ms.
mossy zinc
You're in 4th place!
cyan stag
Do you need a screenshot for confirmation or is it alright to just write the result?
mossy zinc
I believe you. It's not that serious of a leaderboard, anyway.
If you lied, you will have to live with that yourself.
proud jay
im a slow boomer
mossy zinc
I guess if you make top 3, I would need a screenshot for verification? I guess that's a good rule.
cyan stag
True. Not something worth bending the truth for.
mossy zinc
@proud jay take the test. 🔫
mossy zinc
Yeah, since I just wrote a screenshot is necessary for top 3 lol.
Your prize is errr . . .
fickle mirage
Right sorry, just woke up ^.^;
fickle mirage
Fast number go brrrrrr and I swear I'm gonna get that 40 heat zeus clear at some point
mossy zinc
I like how the best scores we have are "demigod", which fits the Hades theme perfectly lol.
fickle mirage
It's pretty great thematically yeah
mossy zinc
You're tied for 2nd place with @daring hedge. Congratulations! 🥈
I used to think that at the highest level, I make up for my reactions with strategy or something, but now I'm starting to question if maybe it's the other way around. 
fickle mirage
It's hard to tell how much of what you're doing is actually really wild reaction time until given a reason to question it. stuff in this game can happen in like a third of a second and we just go "yeah seems fair I can dodge that".
prime cairn
What's the link for this pro speed tester?
mossy zinc
prime cairn
I did it once, probably shouldn't have done it before going to sleep. 😛
mossy zinc
I did mine before going to sleep, too.
mossy zinc
You can link it from imgur or something.
Or just directly link the image.
166 is second place.
prime cairn
mossy zinc
This is so I can feel good about myself despite not being 1st place in high heat anymore people can see how much response time is a factor at high heat; it's just for research.
I really just thought it'd be fun lol.
@trim sigil take the test. 🔫
@prime cairn congratulations on 2nd place! 🥈
trim sigil
243ms (above average) ⭐ ⭐ ⭐
Phone is p atrocious for testing tho 
Will redo when on pc
mossy zinc
Yeah, you should definitely retake that on PC lol.
@trim sigil congratulations on top 9!
mossy zinc
@foggy ruin congratulations on top 10!
foggy ruin
niiiiiice haha
static plover
189ms
mossy zinc
@static plover congratulations on top 8!
bronze viper
@mossy zinc Lol, and they better take your Greatshield feedback seriously, you're #1 on the reaction time leaderboard!
mossy zinc
lol
bronze viper
But seriously, I feel like an idiot sometimes when I starting down two greatshields, dash behind them thinking they're going to do the wave, then they turn around instantly and do it in that direction. And it feels kinda necessary to do because of TD. I don't really have time to wait for 8 greatshields to do their thing and hang out then hit them twice in their downtime and repeat
mossy zinc
It wouldn't be so bad if they didn't also do a truckload of damage.
trim sigil
Well, even chip damage will pile up quickly with their moveset
bronze viper
67 with slugger I think, for the wave? This is fine.
trim sigil
Both attacks have potential to multihit
mossy zinc
Normally, I just run towards them to close the distance and trigger their attack immediately, then you can just dash through them when you see the flash.
But with Speeder, there's the risk that one of them will turn before they attack or that I just react too late.
I still don't know why they make Brightswords look like bad melee lol.
The one combo that's been frustrating me the most, though, is Speeder Cloner Wringers.
You have to dash preemptively, and then your dash will often activate a different Wringer or Clone that will immediately grab you.
bronze viper
Lol, I had the joy of playing against that combo with melee for the first time
It is torture
mossy zinc
And clones that spawn right next to you can grab you before you can react.
bronze viper
You die a slow, painful death, 10 frustrating damage at a time
mossy zinc
It'd be a faster death on Hell mode lol.
mossy zinc
Because their attacks tend to trigger invincibility.
trim sigil
tbh the only real time PL matters is when you use GY
bronze viper
Ohh, right
mossy zinc
But you don't get that invincibility in Hell mode.
bronze viper
Sigh, do I have to make a stupid Hell Mode profile now boooo
CP1 too scary for me doe
mossy zinc
I mean, you don't have to lol.
bronze viper
Also it's only 1 "free heat" until you get to the stupid cloner shifter Brimstone rooms
THEY LOOK EXACTLY THE SAME
bronze viper
Yeah but at least you can kill them reliably before the attack goes off. Seeker + Cloner/Shifter is far more obnoxious
mossy zinc
You just gotta empty dash a lot.
trim sigil
Btw, is it me, or cloner witches spawn all their clones immediately when other enemies pace spawns out a bit?
mossy zinc
I'm not really sure.
mossy zinc
I think it works the same for all enemies.
trim sigil
It should, at least
mossy zinc
Sometimes the first enemy wave is already in the room when you enter.
Sometimes you need to wait for them to spawn.
trim sigil
But i swear I see a single cloner witch and then 3 spawn cues happen at once
When smth like brimstones goes 1 by 1
bronze viper
I think that happens often in the beginning of encounters
It just doesn't matter as much for most enemy types
mossy zinc
If they're already in the room, the clones will all be there already, too.
trim sigil
Well yeah, it may as well be a bias, hence the question
bronze viper
Lol, something like Speeder Cloner Louts though annoy me. I can definitely play carefully enough not to get hit but I don't want to.
mossy zinc
Because Witches have low difficulty and there are more Witches than other enemies, it looks like they spawn more clones.
When it's still just one clone at first per Witch.
bronze viper
Their windup is only fast enough to react to if you're not doing anything else. It's a coinflip if you want to commit to an action within their range though
Does Speeder affect projectiles the same way that FO2 does (is it literally just FO3?)
mossy zinc
Speeder is x1.5 attack speed and movement speed. Seems to affect projectiles the same way, yeah.
It's probably additive.
mossy zinc
They've set a minimum attack startup for various attacks, though, in the Blood Price Update.
bronze viper
I see
mossy zinc
So it's not as bad as it used to be.
Speeder Slam-Dancers are pretty ridiculous in how persistent they are.
I bet you could have 5 dashes, and they'd still hang out right next to you lol.
bronze viper
Slam-Dancers in general have a moveset I find obnoxious to react to, seeing as how I am spending minutes just chasing them around and wondering which island they hopped to
Thank Zeus Asphodel has no timer
Or am I thinking of the Inferno Bombers
mossy zinc
Probably.
Slam-Dancers are the pink/purple ones that want to hug you and explode when they're close.
bronze viper
I know there's the green and yellow ones that I spend so long chasing around that I will end up eating a bomb in the face out of exasperation
cyan stag
I fire a cast and go into the direction it bends towards.
mossy zinc
Yellow/orange are Inferno-bombers, and the green ones are Burn-Flingers.
bronze viper
lol, that's my color code for respecting mechanics in the Barge of Death. Danger meter: yellow > green > pink/purple
foggy ruin
Slam-Dancers in general have a moveset I find obnoxious to react to, seeing as how I am spending minutes just chasing them around and wondering which island they hopped to
Thank you! This is why I'm starting to dislike Asphodel more than Elysium in my Zeus attempts
bronze viper
@cyan stag That's a nifty tool for that problem, I'll try that next time I'm in a Speeder bomber room lol
mossy zinc
But, Asphodel doesn't really matter. They can jump around all they want, you still have plenty of time to finish the region.
bronze viper
Or Whack-a-Mole as I'm like to think of it as now
mossy zinc
Just don't die, and you're good in time.
bronze viper
I imagine in 1.0 they will tweak it so the timer actually... makes sense. I doubt they want Asphodel to be as free as it is
foggy ruin
I just dislike the feeling of getting kited
bronze viper
Lol, at least green attacks you directly. Yellow jumps around and throws bombs in some random place hoping I'll dash into it while looking for them
mossy zinc
If you aggroed them already, they'll pursue you to the ends of the . . . floating islands on magma and beyond—onto the magma . . .
Or just Deflect them.
bronze viper
The feral Dusas that end up half a screen into the magma I've started to resent as well
mossy zinc
(Just Deflect them. )
I run away from them when they do that, yeah.
They'll come back if you're far enough away.
bronze viper
Oh, that's cool, didn't know that. I was afraid they'd just randomly wander eternally
mossy zinc
If you stay too close, they'll just keep running away and stay floating over magma.
bronze viper
That makes my Nemesis runs in Asphodel a hair less irritating
mossy zinc
No, that's what I meant earlier. Aggroed enemies want to get into attack range.
bronze viper
Lol, the Dusas (and Megagorgon) ended up being the deciding factor for me no longer wanting Divine Strike over dash.
mossy zinc
Why not both?
bronze viper
Lol, yeah if it's an option in Tartarus
mossy zinc
I had 4 Deflect boons in Tartarus in my last attempt and timed out by 5 stupid seconds vs the Champions. 5 more seconds . . .
trim sigil
It is an option.. except you'd only have those two and sell one for UC
Still better than no deflect
mossy zinc
Got Divine Dash in Elysium to make it 5x Deflect.
bronze viper
I hate when I lose by less than 10 seconds in Elysium. It's probably quantifiable doing a short sweep in each room for urns or Wells
mossy zinc
That would have been so free after this fight.
5 seconds is like . . . dodging one more swing from Asterius or Theseus. That's all it was.
Or not getting Teleporting Flamewheels + Elite Chariots in the last encounter before the boss fight and going in with only 7 HP . . .
proud jay
are you playing zagreus or demeter?
mossy zinc
Who knows. Maybe Zag Sword.
Could be Chiron.
Zeus Aspect, perhaps.
I don't like to say what I work on because the last time I did that, somebody immediately started working on the same thing to beat me to it, and that wasn't really what I was looking for.
trim sigil
Well clearly if you went full athena you are rocking zag sword, that's the law of first clear
mossy zinc
I didn't know how terrifying Burner Seeker Splitters could be in an early, small Asphodel chamber.
Everything is magma or projectiles.
bronze viper
Ugh, the stupid small room with 4 baby islands is the worst
mossy zinc
I don't know if it's 4, but it was the smallest chamber.
I had Divine Strike and Dash and still died lol.
bronze viper
It might be 5, idk. It's the one with the center island being the longest, with a infernal trove spot in the left/right-most side
I guess peninsula is more accurate
mossy zinc
I dunno. Aside from a couple maps, I just recognize the layout when I see it lol.
Like, I know where traps are and stuff, but don't ask me to describe any maps from memory lol.
tidal flame
The S shape lava river room is pure evil
mossy zinc
See, I'm not even sure if I'm picturing the right map or if you mean a different one lol.
tidal flame
I'll screenshot the room when I see it
There are a couple of room configurations that feel horrible to play on
The room in Tartarus with the center isle trap contraptions, too
If you know which one I'm referring to xD
tidal flame
yeah that one is p bad, too
tidal flame
how do you get sub 200ms lol
patent umbra
Playing lots of FPSes growing up
tidal flame
i swear everyone who posts here have insane reaction time
patent umbra
Also, a high hz monitor might help with that but IDK
tidal flame
probably response bias, but still
patent umbra
I got some 130s in the test so I feel like I might hit those consistently if I practiced
bronze viper
I think i'd do better if i could use a controller vs. mouse since I play twitch reaction games on controllers usually but yeah
bronze viper
Reaction time is so relative to situational knowledge and number of things happening though
Fighting games, this game, platformers, Dark Souls
bronze viper
My right index finger isn't as tuned as either my left hand or my right thumb for twitch reactions. I guess I could try the test holding my mouse like a dummie
I play Path of Exile too, which has movement on left click by default, but I re-bound it to right click to match other similar games
trim sigil
How does one get out of eternal loop of looking through builds and thinking "yeah, this one is hot but one thing makes it suboptimal anyway" (usually being too slow)? 
bronze viper
Find one that you really enjoy playing and figure out if there's a way around it? At least if you determine there isn't you know for sure instead of window shopping
trim sigil
...
yeah I guess practice is the best way. Just that not enough time to try them all
Spent like 10 hours before deciding Chiron special build is a dumpster fire
trim sigil
Tbh. tbh. If it had the same amount of arrows in max level as zag bow, it could have put up a competition
proud jay
like i don't get why they decided it shouldn't get charged daedalus upgrade
proud jay
meanwhile there's beowulf charged special
trim sigil
Also the most potential while safe build I am aware of is Merciful End. Getting a duo consistently with AP2? Hades laughing
proud jay
getting anything consistently with AP2
trim sigil
Well, seeding for one hammer is mildly more flexible than trying to get 3 boons of desire by at least hydra
But yeah, fair
bronze viper
It's the 800 years of lag on the non-Rama special that kills me. Obviously it would be busted if Chiron has Rama's special speed but somewhere in between would be nice
Have you tried Hestia? It has a similar playstyle to Chiron but it functions
Certainly less flashy though (Chiron's animation looks fantastic)
trim sigil
Struggling to pick up the cast to use with it, but overall it has been an intriguing idea
Same for beo
(except everyone loves beo for charged flight instead)
bronze viper
wait, what? Are you talking about Hera?
sharp cobalt
I like Chiron~
trim sigil
Hestia is probably too much microcontrol for me
sharp cobalt
It's not like, broken strong, but it avails itself all right.
bronze viper
That's fair. It's a reasonable bit more technical than Chiron, though it has the upside of a ton more flexibility and damage
trim sigil
I like chiron as well, for those chill 45 minute runs when you can just enjoy sprays and stuff
sharp cobalt
Hestia isn't that hard. Just press R after each attack.
You get into a nice little rhythm. Blow something up, reload, blow something up.
trim sigil
Just that it isn't competitive rn at all (chiron)
And yeah ig it's the matter of getting R hythm
sharp cobalt
What does 'competetive' mean though?
Like, it's not the strongest thing in the game.
bronze viper
You can dash strike cancel a lot of stuff, and squeeze in specials between reloads
sharp cobalt
But why does that mather?
bronze viper
It is a lot more to maintain
sharp cobalt
It can handle the game at high heat. Though how high might differ.
But it can at least push 40.
trim sigil
Well, it matters because if something consistently cannot breach the TD2, then it's rather dull in general
sharp cobalt
Matters for what though?
sharp cobalt
You don't even need to do TD1.
trim sigil
Mmm, seems like i found the reason of both misunderstanding and my frowned mood
I was talking in sense of max heat (56+)
trim sigil
That's why I am trying to theorize to if not be the first to achieve something like this, then at least be proud of helping to
But maybe that's a tad too big load to take
sharp cobalt
For max heat, the only weapon I can realistically see managing it is like... Chaos Shield.
Maybe Rama if you're really very good.
But even for them, DC2 on top of everything else makes it really very difficult.
trim sigil
The "target every enemy with special to take off dc2 then immediately target the bunch of strong targets to wipe whole room" really very good?
Not that it's unreasonable
sharp cobalt
More that it'd be hard to manage to do optimal damage with Rama while staying safe enough.
trim sigil
True true
sharp cobalt
With FO2 and RI4, and no healing at all, you're in big trouble for every hit.
Your life pool literally cannot go up unless you get the chaos legendary death defy.
Which might end up being the strat, honestly. Routing for a chaos revive.
But that's pretty ridculous.
trim sigil
Wait a second. Would Stubborn Roots work? Or it's hardcoded to not function without DD/SD unlocked?
Or it's locked by LC4?
sharp cobalt
LC4 doesn't stop stubborn root.
I'm not sure about how it works if you don't have Death Defy to start with.
Good luck getting a duo boon with AP2 though.
trim sigil
(well, getting a duo like that is already a courageous task with ap--- yeah exactly lol)
sharp cobalt
You don't really have time to hang around healing either.
trim sigil
To be fair, can't be much worse than rolling for chaos leggie
trim sigil
And besides, it would function all the time (if it does at all), so any chip dmg will be shrugged off, and if you get hit enough to farm out hp, then probably not enough skill/luck to finish the run anyway
Let me test ig, for the lack of better duties
sharp cobalt
You say that, but chip damage in the hades fight is like 60 damage.
That's a big chunk of your health bar.
trim sigil
Bosses damage would be the lesser concern, due to acorn and their rather consistent behavior
Rooms catching you offguard is usually a worse run killer from what I saw
sharp cobalt
Hades is a pretty tough fight still.
People run acorn because Hades and the Heroes are hard fights that can easily score big hits on you.
I don't think any of the highest heat runs we've had have made it through Hades flawlessly.
Even with Acorn.
trim sigil
He's the one to whoop me everytime so not even going to argue
Best fight i've got was 2 acorn charges left iirc, on lower heat
Either way, it's easier for me to imagine someone mastering the whole Hades fight to the point of nohit than getting through Elysium without a scratch
But that's an opinion ofc
And off i go, to try stubborn roots RI4
mossy zinc
How does one get out of eternal loop of looking through builds and thinking "yeah, this one is hot but one thing makes it suboptimal anyway" (usually being too slow)?
@trim sigil your build should be aspect + hammer + 1 boon or aspect + 1–2 boons. If that's not enough to make it, you already have a problem on the highest heats. And you should know what options are available from any gods you see on the way to determine if it's worth going for them, but you shouldn't need to rely on them.
Ideally, it's something like aspect + hammer + 1 of 2 boons that can work.
Sub 50, you have some room to go for 1 boon + 1 any core boon from a second god + their Duo Boon.
Like, if I did 40-ish with Hestia, Heartbreak Strike is at the core, and then Divine Dash or anything from Lord Zeus to get Smoldering Air is ideal but not actually required. And if I don't get Heartbreak Strike, Deadly Strike is a good option to fall back on.
A lot of builds on high heats are just Attack or Special > Lady Athena.
She can give you up to 2 DDs, Divine Dash, or Athena's Aid. All of which will help a lot on most aspects.
Call doesn't help much on certain aspects that don't build gauge fast enough (e.g., Hestia, Zag bow).
But Dash or either of the DDs are still huge in any run.
If you see the second god that you want in Tartarus already, it's actually a pretty good idea to go for the Chthonic Coin Purse or even Acorn in Asphodel instead of another god keepsake.
Since if you picked up their boon, you'll see them again on your run anyway.
And forcing a god that you didn't see can be a waste, too, if it's not Lady Athena tbh.
Especially if you have AP2.
Lady Athena because most of her boons are so high value. But the others have a high chance of giving you boons you don't care for, that you'll sell anyway, and that you might not even be able to sell—and you might see them anyway.
Also, you can just test run your build with like TD2 EM3 JS3 CP2 and optionally DC2—and no other pacts.
I definitely do that unless I'm very familiar with the aspect and possible builds.
That will highlight limits of the build and what kind of playstyle or boons you need to succeed.
BP2 adds some extra challenge, but for the most part, those pacts are enough to give you an idea.
Most BP2 elites die about as fast as regular elites.
They have the same amount of armor and HP except for Bruiser.
proud jay
i always try to start with coin purse
i think i've had a run or two with coin purse start
usually means there's an erebus gate with the god i want
mossy zinc
Do you farm for a seed with the god you want?
mossy zinc
Interesting.
proud jay
i'm usually not going for a specific aspect anyway since farming for a very specific seed is quite annoying
so if it's a hammer i just check around the weapons i'd like to run what's available for AP2
mossy zinc
Oh, gotcha.
bronze viper
that's really smart
proud jay
and if chamber 2 is something good, or even an erebus gate start, either the first boon with coin purse needs to be something useful, or i check if there's a rare/epic attack or special available with keepsake
and if an epic attack is offered, same applies for any god's keepsake
so farming for a good starting seed usually doesn't even take many tries if you're willing to do a wider selection of weapons/aspects
trim sigil
@mossy zinc less is more, and athena is obvious carry. Yeah, I have been observing these principles for a while
Testing weapons with most fat enemy setup without additional heat is interesting idea, that being said. Although some pacts heavily impact viability by causing less boons to appear, and turning them on practically makes the whole run again
proud jay
there's a few im willing to 50+ but admittedly not that many
mossy zinc
The idea is that your test run only has the very core of your build and avoids anything else.
proud jay
at least something workable
trim sigil
Side note: have been trying to get Stubborn Roots for a while, got offered 2 Deadly Reversals instead 
That makes me wonder if there is a requirement of having at least 1 revive slot to get SR
proud jay
i think my 49 hestia had common aphro attack
bronze viper
Don't think so
I've gotten Stubborn Roots a whole bunch with 3x DDs left
Also slightly baffled at the general concept of being sad to see Deadly Reversal because you wanted Roots 😛
proud jay
stubborn roots is alright but idk
bronze viper
It doesn't tick when encounters end, which isn't clear from the phrasing
trim sigil
Nah, I meant like, RI4
proud jay
there's also time limit that comes into play in elysium/styx
trim sigil
When you literally do not have revives
bronze viper
Oh, huh, yeah with RI4 I'm not sure you can get Roots
Though you may be putting the cart before the horse here. Roots has virtually no text against bosses, since none of the boss arenas have much open room to hide in, so you may want to get to the point where you can do every boss hitless first
trim sigil
It's more of theoretical possibility rather than trying to utilize it on practice asap
mossy zinc
I haven't seen anything to suggest it's not available. I feel like I got it in the beta on an RI4 run? But I don't have any recordings of those attempts, and I didn't have it for RI4 33 Heat.
autumn sable
I could’ve sworn that I saw someone who looked at files say it can’t be offered if you don’t have a defiance
mossy zinc
Yeah, I just found it.
trim sigil
Ah, that does it then
just about when I was offered merciful end in yet another test run 
The real question now is: can we get chaos dd and after that stubborn roots?
bronze viper
i do predict the first 57/58 we'll see will be some hilariously routed run like that
trim sigil
The person to pull that off might be quite quite lucky... or have not enough personal life
mossy zinc
can we get chaos dd and after that stubborn roots?
That's not what I'm thinking of. That's too much effort.
trim sigil
It's not about the practical application. It's about memes
RI4 run that is surprisingly sturdy compared to even RI0/1, just how funny that would be
Ah well, since most of research was complete, I'd go back to grinding Serrated Point seed
bronze viper
idk about "surprisingly sturdy" lol. even with infnite regen you're looking at 50 life and 1 dash
frail crane
50 life + centaur hearts?
trim sigil
Dash doesn't contribute to health pool, 50 health would expand to like 125 at very least by time you'd get everything
bronze viper
may as well route for Life Affirmation and Greatest Reflexes while you're at it :3
proud jay
i'd take premium vintage over life affirmation any day
mossy zinc
Unshakable Mettle is great.
Maybe one of the best boons in the game.
People don't value it until they have to play without revives and everything is out to kill you, like BP2 enemies everywhere and stuff.
proud jay
sturdy is the actual hidden op
mossy zinc
I'm kind of happy to finally see some more interest in RI4 lately.
bronze viper
People in feedback always be saying that stuns never matter. Clearly they have never been 1-2-3-4 combo'd by a single elite Witch
mossy zinc
People think that "stun" only applies to stuff like Tisiphone's attack or the urns in the Hades fight.
hollow lynx
getting hit
proud jay
i just realised the only thing epic cast seed has to offer on high heat is meme stuff
somber leaf
so if I wanted to skip from 8 heat to 32 to see what it's like, what advice for Pacts, weapons, aspects, boons, and strategies do you guys have?
a simple "don't would also be good advice 😛
mossy zinc
Whatever aspect you're most comfortable with or have the most fun with that's maxed out.
And whatever pacts seem ideal or most fun to you.
The most important thing for high heat success is perseverance, and you can't stick with it and put in the practice and strategizing you need if you're not having fun.
If you're using TD2, then commonly you want to avoid pacts that prolong fights like JS, CP, DC. And if you want to use those instead, then commonly you avoid TD2 and either pick TD1 or no TD at all.
trim sigil
You can always do zag sword Merciful End for max memes
(that's if you are comfortable with sword, that is. fists and spear can also work tho)
Preferably just pick a strong attack boon and hammer tho, more consistent
mossy zinc
EM3 can be a great option for a lot of heat or the worst pact you could choose depending on how practiced you are in the EM3 fight and what aspect you're using.
somber leaf
I've done EM1/2 a lot, EM3 I've only done twice... once barely got hit, other time got hit a LOT, and I don't know which caused which
mossy zinc
RI4 is normally the most difficult pact, but it can also be the only that excites you enough to stick with it until you succeed.
somber leaf
RI/AP are my two least favourite by far, they reduce fun more than they increase difficulty - that said, LC and CF I also hate
bronze viper
what are some examples of stuns?
@odd tartan Some common examples of lethal examples are getting stunlocked by Chariots, multiple Lout charges, Witch/Spread/Splitters, Minotaur's spin, Greatbow/spear/shields, Popper explosion chains, Dad's one-two spin combo in second phase
bronze viper
I used to hate CF until I treated as my new normal
Now when it's off everything seems like it's at an enormous discount!
trim sigil
^^^
Right now if I run without CF I find myself never lacking money for even mid shops at times
Suffering from success™️
Charon fight early on would probably let to buy out the whole shops including styx
somber leaf
CF is slightly poorly designed, it makes money rooms too terrible - reducing all money drops otherwise seems reasonable, but it just cuts them out of the picture haha
bronze viper
That's one way of looking at it. Another way is that it makes Obol rooms necessary to be able to buy a boon in the shop to sell to Underworld Customs.
Since ambient gold will never get you to 270
So I get really excited for my first Obol room typically
2 obol rooms means I typically have enough to buy a Heart and a Boon
trim sigil
Something doesn't line up then
2 obol rooms is 200 gold
Heart costs 225
Either you can actually buy one boon by ambient gold or you need more than two rooms to get heart and boon
🤓
mossy zinc
Obol chambers are definitely important at high heat.
bronze viper
Yeah the math is loose. It's closer to 3 obol rooms for that, I'm not sure the average amount of ambient gold per room
mossy zinc
Pom chambers actually have low value a lot of the time, on the other hand.
bronze viper
Point being that it's the difference of mentality between "Boo, now obol rooms can't let me buy a boon or heart at every shop" and "I literally need an obol room to continue this run"
mossy zinc
The math is I either have 270 obols for a boon before the boss shop or I don't.
trim sigil
It usually goes hammers = hermes > god boons > gold > pom, but wildly varies depending on what you already have
mossy zinc
I'll pass Lord Hermes for a Centaur Heart often.
trim sigil
Some builds don't need hammers, gods can be detrimental, nothing to level, etc.
Oh yeah the hearts
mossy zinc
He'll be back in the next chamber often lol.
trim sigil
Hearts are somewhere up with them yes
mossy zinc
I've skipped key chambers for gemstone chambers because I was lacking those 20 obols to have 270.
bronze viper
Yeah I was about to say, at LC4 at highest heat it's:
Hammer I start with > Gods I want > Hearts > Hermes > Key > Gods I don't want or need for fodder > Poms/Nectar (early game, otherwise these rooms are worthless) > Obols (to hit 270) >>>> Hammer
odd tartan
Is Side hustle stupidly strong, or am i overvaluing it?
bronze viper
probably both
trim sigil
I always found it as strong, but probably not as strong as extra mobility
bronze viper
It's conditionally super strong
bronze viper
Lol, it's a lot less trash without CF2, but he is asking in #h1-high-heat-strategies :3
mossy zinc
Side Hustle is "lol thanks for wasting your rerolls, now pray that you'll get at least half the obols you need from this to buy a boon from Lord Hermes that actually does something."
bronze viper
Even with AP2, CF2, RI2, I'd prefer Side Hustle over the bloodstone boons
mossy zinc
Fair.
bronze viper
I have not been able to measure how good Quick Recovery is. I assume it's somewhere in the range of "This is a thing that exists"
mossy zinc
I'm actually pretty sure that if you sell his boon, you can get another 2 from him before the Temple of Styx.
Quick Recovery is actually decent.
bronze viper
I can't figure out what the window for activating it is, since I'm never looking at that part of my screen
mossy zinc
I'll still reroll for Greatest Reflex.
But it actually does something, which is nice.
And it's great for selling when you want to keep your other boons.
bronze viper
Lol
mossy zinc
So there's that. 
Important lesson btw to always buy a boon from Lord Hermes over the random boon sack because you can actually sell all of his.
bronze viper
Also because with AP2... hoo buy you really are rolling some serious dice
mossy zinc
Made the mistake of buying the random once and got stuck with Nourished Soul.
Very good run turned into very ruined run.
bronze viper
And random boon sacks are a trap in Tartarus/Asphodel, you don't want to get caught with a bad God
mossy zinc
Also important lesson to tell Lady Demeter to go away when you play with UC AP2 LC4.
Just, go away Lady Demeter. Stop haunting me.
trim sigil
I suppose Poseidon wasn't invited to the party in first place to be told away?
bronze viper
Mistral Dash, Frozen Touch, and Demeter's Aid are pretty solid though. Ravenous Will if you're Stygian Soul
mossy zinc
Stop trying to feed me your cooking. I'm trying to survive out here.
trim sigil
Ravenous Will seems more solid with regular casts ngl
mossy zinc
What's Stygian Soul, is that like a mirror thing?
trim sigil
Stygian refreshing every 3 secs is too quick
bronze viper
lol
You can't continuously attack in high heat anyway, you'll get hit back. Since it's very opportunistic, it's pretty easy to use a cast, get in, get out
It's not really worth imo unless you have a build that benefits from global damage
Or randomly, if you have RI3, in which case your cast will lodge and it's next to permanent lol
mossy zinc
Rare Crop is terrible. Nourished Soul is terrible. Exchanges are terrible.
That's just too many options from her that I don't want.
sharp cobalt
I like rare crop.
I guess if you don't have anything good or are dying, it's pretty bad.
bronze viper
It's not good though. It's so risky with UC CF2, AP2
mossy zinc
You can't sell Rare Crop. It doesn't help your boon economy.
sharp cobalt
I'm still waiting for the change that makes rare crop sell for 0.
bronze viper
And with RI1+ you're probably getting common Rare Crop, which probably has a 50% chance of actually being useful
if that
mossy zinc
Hitting a boon with Rare Crop that you have to sell because you got Rare Crop when you wanted a boon that you could potentially sell doesn't do anything for you.
sharp cobalt
I get that.
bronze viper
These are all conditional statements though. Rare Crop is amazingly bad at high high heat, but it's definitely fine as boon in and of itself.
mossy zinc
You can get lucky with it on high heat, too.
bronze viper
Lol, yeah sometimes you aren't given the option
mossy zinc
But it's usually not what happens.
bronze viper
Demeter: "You will take your Heroic Divine Dash and you will like it"
"See you in 2 boons from now to give you Nouishing Soul"
mossy zinc
In comparison, Lady Artemis is one of the best gods you can encounter on high heat.
bronze viper
Athena, Artemis, Aphrodite. It's like a theme or something lol
mossy zinc
Only 6 tier 1 boons, 5 of which are core boons.
All 6 can be sold.
If you have her in your pool, you'll always have boons that you can sell.
And all 6 boons actually do something.
@patent umbra congratulations on 2nd place on the leaderboard! 🥈
I got some 120ish ones, but nothing consistent. It's perfectly normal to have a lot of variance in your simple response time.
I also had a 85 one, but that was a startle response.
Would be easier if I could just force myself to startle and skip the processing of the input lol.
And yeah, high refresh rate with low input lag makes a big difference.
stuck ridge
i just found out stubborn roots works even with 100% lasting consequences, so thats a cool way to get hP back
bronze viper
There's a long convo about that not too long ago lol
stuck ridge
lmao, coincidences always happen so close together
also why is rare crop bad? early in a run, it can be like better version of eurydice's ambrosia. I like taking it when i get a good hammer and my primary attack is only rare or something
bronze viper
Underworld Customs, Approval Process 2, Convenience Fee, and Routine Inspection 1 combine in such a way that you likely have the 1 boon you want from Tartarus, and another random boon that you pick up to sell to Underworld Customs. If you get Rare Crop, it may or may not hit the boon you want, or the fodder boon, but it itself is also not sellable, and it puts Demeter in your pool, who has a couple of other unsellable/bad boons
RI1 is relevant because it will most likely make Rare Crop common, which makes it not immensely likely to hit the boon you want it to anyway
The worst case scenario is you have a Tartarus run that only affords 2 boons, but your second boon is Rare Crop, so you just have to sell your build defining boon (the run is over)
stuck ridge
oof yeah that is bad
patent umbra
@mossy zinc oh snap, thanks! Who was first and what was the number, out of curiosity?
Also 85 ms is insane. Are you the first-place reaction timer then?
trim sigil
@mossy zinc retook the test on PC, a lot more solid now https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/546306951210860585/740717468988735619/Capture.PNG
(attempts averaged at around 175ms too, so it's not a huge fluke)
somber leaf
wait, what is this about "puts Demeter in your pool"? do you have a pool of gods somehow?
hollow lynx
not sure of the specifics, but it's known that gods you've already taken will be the ones to show up later on in the run
something like 4(?) slots. so if you take demeter in tartarus, she's gonna take up one of those slots and certainly show up later
trim sigil
^
somber leaf
Are the slots chosen when you choose which room to go to, or before that?
Does that mean that the maximum to family favourite is about 25% (for Hermes too)
hollow lynx
ish
you can still force gods
slots are taken up as soon as you pick up an olympian's boon, before then the olympians are random
trim sigil
P much
I heard max amount of gods in the run is 7 (4 regular, 3 from keepsakes) + hermes, which makes it 40%... but it's really hard to pull off
Finally, obamium serrated point seed. Time to go absolute bonkers with damage... once I get used to short dashes
mossy zinc
@patent umbra yeah, I'm first place. 👸🏽 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12_2L5sZGreuR-1MElSpPiVK6893SIq_oXp8AelLVvco/edit?usp=sharing
@trim sigil congratulations on 6th place!
tidal flame
Did not know I was on that too xD
mossy zinc
And yeah, 85 ms was just a startle response, which is a defensive reflex. One of them caught me so off-guard that it triggered the reflex lol.
tardy path
Jeez I feel so normal after seeing all these reaction times
mossy zinc
@tidal flame I did ping you.
tidal flame
Pc
mossy zinc
I see I see. Then . . . retaking it on PC probably won't do much.
tidal flame
I fish just fine so yeah 😎
mossy zinc
@sharp cobalt congratulations! You're tied for 3rd place with Jerds! 🥉
sharp cobalt
Hurray!
Maybe I can try to improve it a smidge.
There, second try!
I don't think I can do too much faster than this though. My best was about 160. My old lady reflexes.
mossy zinc
Nice lol.
cyan stag
I'd like to see an old lady with this kind of reflexes.
mossy zinc
@sharp cobalt congratulations on 3rd place! (now without a tie!) 🥉
sharp cobalt
Yaay, thanks ❤️
(Though I still fail at fishing a good chunk of the time. I blame the bobber fake outs)
mossy zinc
lol
Just look for the flash, and ignore the rest.
So many demigods in the Hades playerbase.
sharp cobalt
I wonder if there is something beyond demigod.
mossy zinc
There is.
daring hedge
Wait how did the simple response time test become such an event here with everyone already
Nyaanyaaaa [shakes fist]
mossy zinc
It's just fun and quick lol.
daring hedge
The real high heat strategies were the response times we recorded along the way
proud jay
achilles up to 42 heat by utilizing the meme dream beam
mossy zinc
Chill.
trim sigil
53 heat
asphodel start
choice between ares boon and erebus pom
... yeah ares smells lets go pom
Speeder Slugger ashen strongbow appears
death
That'd be a long journey
sharp cobalt
Erebus rooms are rude.
trim sigil
Sometimes they are as polite as "here, 30 numbskulls and deal"
Sometimes stuff happens
At this point Seeker Speeder ashen witch is not scary anymore
proud jay
i think erebus rooms are appropriately challenging
trim sigil
Dunno. I feel like the challenge is too varied at times
trim sigil
It is worth noting that erebus is the one of few major ways to get more value from chambers so the challenge itself is indeed justified
mossy zinc
I don't know about Super Elite Megagorgon + Super Elite Soulcatcher.
halcyon frost
dang, you guys are fast, took the test too, think I made top ten. Hey everyone btw, just got here o/
It would appear though I do not have permission to upload pngs
mossy zinc
You can link it from imgur or something.
mossy zinc
@halcyon frost congratulations on top 9!
dang, you guys are fast
The girls are fast. The guys are slowpokes.
halcyon frost
fair enough
fossil reef
It took me a couple of times to warm up, but I honestly don't think this is even my best
tidal flame
Nice!
halcyon frost
yeah, friggin fast.
fossil reef
I think the best I could peak at would be around 125ish
But that's only if I'm actually on fire
tidal flame
I swear the people who posted here are abnormally fast
Response bias is a thing
But it's weird that most people who regularly post here score so high
fossil reef
Yeah, I've been playing video games since I was like 5, so this sort of thing is probably up my alley >>
Same for everyone else here, I bet
tidal flame
I mean I've been gaming my whole life, too.
But I guess RTS and turn base aren't exactly reaction time demanding.
fossil reef
I play mostly FPS games...or I used to anyways lol
I also played a lot of Rockband and Guitar Hero and I feel like that helps with timing too?
mossy zinc
Gamers have way better than average reaction speed.
@fossil reef congratulations on 1st place! 🥇
cyan stag
Now the interesting question would be how much gaming improves reaction speed, or whether an already above average speed paves the way to become a gamer in the first place - like a born talent or somesuch.
mossy zinc
Both lol.
fossil reef
Nature vs. Nurture. Science would say "It's both"
cyan stag
My bet is on the former, but I guess putting people through calibrated tests would make for a good thesis.
fossil reef
It's just like any skill, the more you do it, the better you get at it
Even the reaction speed test isn't perfect, there are small optimizations you can make for how you hold your mouse, how you click, reducing the delay between depressing your button and the actual activation
There's always some kind of optimization that you can only understand and master through repetition
I screwed up the next one because my mouse was in an unclickable zone T.T, but you see what I mean
Okay, I'm going to stop spamming now, but this is what I mean, ten minutes or so of warming up and I'm already beating my first try http://puu.sh/Gf2k9/f3f0fe36e4.png
fossil reef
Haha, cheers 😛
fossil reef
no, lmao, it really is just practice and optimization.
mossy zinc
Negative input lag.
fossil reef
I had to experiment with my grip and how much pressure I put on the button so that it takes the least amount of time/effort to click once I see green
And then just repeat until I could consistently get good times
I think if I did this for a couple hours I could get down to 125, but I don't have the patience or willpower for it
bronze viper
Perhaps he had someone from the future tell him when to press the buttons
patent umbra
Still 3rd place, but I did slightly better at 147
Actually 141, which ties for second. That's probably the best or near-best I can do though. Maybe I can get down to high 130s but +/- 5 from this 141 would be me at my best
sharp cobalt
Jeez.
glossy dust
mossy zinc
Nice! I'll update the list tomorrow.
patent umbra
That gets you third I think. Well, technically 4th, as there's a tie for second last I checked
mossy zinc
4th place, yes.
patent umbra
But solid nonetheless! Congrats
patent umbra
Can't stand being tied, huh
trim sigil
Serrated Point + Puller killed me more times than I want to admit
mossy zinc
prime cairn
Excuse me HOW DO I GET THAT emojoe?!
frail crane
It's one of the server ones
foggy ruin
fossil reef
Petition to rename channel Hades High Reaction Speed Strategy and Discussion Channel
frail crane
just made it to the champions on 32 heat, no boons :D
tidal flame
wut
why
Our Players were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn’t stop to think if they should.
frail crane
because I'm a masochist? I think?
I dunno, I figured if I could do a normal chaos shield run on 40 heat, I could probably do a no boons run on 32
took a few tries, did a few suicides to get a decent start
ended up with minotaur rush/power shot, my favorite combo
...it feels weird picking up boons now
the past probably 10 runs I've tried to do without boons
frail crane
Stellar
mossy zinc
prime cairn
mossy zinc
Pathetic.
shadow zodiac
Pathetic.
My inability to complete a 32 heat run
mossy zinc
32 is hard.
So don't feel bad.
Lots of things you gotta learn that didn't really matter at lower heats.
shadow zodiac
well anyways i have a month of tests coming up so I'll have to take a break from the game now
tidal flame
good luck!
shadow zodiac
ty!
frail crane
Best of luck!
halcyon frost
good luck from me as well, also I am on heat 20 or so, so.... I wish I was good enough to have your problems^^
shadow zodiac
Thank you all. Will use this good luck for both completing 32 heat and my tests
mossy zinc
@proud jay just saw your victory post. Congrats on making that RI4 WR.
proud jay
thanks! definitely had everything going for me in that run though
mossy zinc
That's usually how it goes when it goes.
proud jay
tru dat
rose ferry
Sweet, bablo!
Changed my username to fit. Hope your runs are going well too, Nyaanyaa
prime cairn
What's RI4?
mossy zinc
Routine Inspection maxed out.
proud jay
as in no mirror perks
mossy zinc
Yeah. bablo did that on 36 Heat.
proud jay
man JS makes a huge difference in elysium
prime cairn
Ahh yep, very cool.
mossy zinc
It really does. JS gets worse the "deeper" you go in a run.
trim sigil
Actually I feel like in styx it gets capped, it definitely doesn't spawn 60% more foes there
proud jay
you get sort of a second wave sometimes compared to JS0
trim sigil
Well, yeah there is that 4th enemy weirdly appearing when everything else died
Still not to the extent of elysium and alike
proud jay
yeah
high heat success is all about elysium and sack#
tartarus and asphodel are mostly about gathering resources and getting your important pieces of build together
i think it's good that 50+ heat gets sort of ridiculously hard but they should distribute it around a bit
mossy zinc
There are a couple reasons for that. First of all, you're guaranteed 2 miniboss chambers in the Temple of Styx, and they don't seem to be affected by Jury Summons.
Second, from what I can tell, it doesn't necessarily spawn 60% more enemies. Each enemy type has a difficulty value, and then their elite variants have their own difficulty values, too. Then, each chamber has its own difficulty value that goes up with every chamber as you progress. The difficulty of all the enemies in the chamber can't exceed the value of the chamber itself.
I think what Jury Summons does is increase the difficulty of the chamber by x1.6 at max rank and whatever else below that. So, instead of 60% more enemies, you could end up with just more high-difficulty enemies vs low-difficulty enemies than you normally would.
proud jay
i think there's definitely more enemies
they just tend to come in extra waves at least in elysium
mossy zinc
It's more like as you kill enemies during a wave, new enemies will spawn, but they're still considered as part of that wave.
It could just be always that, too.
bronze viper
Yeah it's not really the # of enemies that's as obnoxious in Elysium as # of waves
1 more additional wave with say, Popper is a lot of extra seconds gone
proud jay
that's exactly the issue i have
mossy zinc
I don't think there are extra waves. Just the waves take way longer because enemies keep spawning during the wave, so getting another one just feels way more painful.
trim sigil
It's almost like there is a limit of enemies regardless of wave and they just keep spawning 1 by 1 as you kill some
Pretty annoying in tartarus, i think I spent 50 seconds just catching witches in corners
mossy zinc
I think that's to not increase the chamber difficulty too dramatically.
trim sigil
Yeah, I get the intention behind that
Probably it's better than 25 witches cramped in one room
(unless you have divine dash ofc)
proud jay
you still get a bit of that in asphodel
mossy zinc
Just hope for Cloners, that will solve your problem with Witches.
Instead of 25 real Witches that you need to kill, you'll only see 5 real Witches that you need to kill.
All of them with 5+ or something clones.
BUT.
You'll need to kill fewer Witches.
In theory.
(In case this isn't clear, Cloner modifies the difficulty rating of the enemy. )
proud jay
do we even get cloners in elysium?
mossy zinc
No.