#h1-high-heat-strategies | Supergiant Games | Page 80

daring hedge Jul 28, 2020, 10:38 AM

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but yeah with AP2 at high heat, you don't count on it

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at all

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even a 46 on base blood price

trim sigil Jul 28, 2020, 10:38 AM

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whichever is the wr for aspects is the highest heat thanthink

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that's how i'd define it ngl

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Oh well, it's mostly semantics at this point instead of argument
Just saying I won't build for ME on bow even if it murders everything on sword, that's it mostly :P

daring hedge Jul 28, 2020, 10:40 AM

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it's very far from sub-optimal on fists, anyway. actually managing to net the duo amidst things like AP2 is the actual barrier to its practical viability

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yeah, it would be clunkier on bow no doubt

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would be neat to see it try though

trim sigil Jul 28, 2020, 10:41 AM

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Yeah, fists and sword are pretty much nutting for that duo

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Spear a fair bit, others not that much

daring hedge Jul 28, 2020, 10:42 AM

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yeah, flurry jab spear would make that a pretty seamless merciful end machine

trim sigil Jul 28, 2020, 10:47 AM

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Also holy hell, hades spear slaps

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I could imagine 150% dmg being so viable that RI3 won't bother it in slightest

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(aside from single dash obv)

daring hedge Jul 28, 2020, 10:48 AM

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i can confirm that it slaps with 50 heat as testament lol

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though despite the 150% extra damage, it's definitely not as OP as some would think honestly

trim sigil Jul 28, 2020, 10:49 AM

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Well, it does require setup, and not the most handy one

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Nemesis gets 1.6x extra for even missing an attack

daring hedge Jul 28, 2020, 10:49 AM

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the setup isn't really the problem

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spacing for spins to apply the debuff is pretty easy after a certain point

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especially after the radius buff

mossy zinc Jul 28, 2020, 11:52 AM

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Is there actually anybody who can consistently evade Megaera's three-circle spam on EM with FO2?

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I guess you can practice the rhythm to i-frame it, but the attack wasn't this bad to deal with before.

daring hedge Jul 28, 2020, 11:57 AM

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yeah, i've mostly just had to get used to the snappier rhythm, and sometimes just using a single dash to avoid one wave of circles

trim sigil Jul 28, 2020, 12:32 PM

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It's only a concern for me with single dash since there is almost no time to get out and iframes come to play

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Counterattacking during that is nigh impossible even with two dashes, indeed

honest kernel Jul 28, 2020, 1:40 PM

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awh poor zag rail

mossy zinc Jul 28, 2020, 1:45 PM

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Well, nobody's used it on 40+ yet.

trim sigil Jul 28, 2020, 1:46 PM

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Needs a good old zeus treatment

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Or spreadfire

mossy zinc Jul 28, 2020, 2:24 PM

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Sounds like a job for @tidal flame.

sharp cobalt Jul 28, 2020, 2:28 PM

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Is there a list of weapons that haven't been used in mega high heats?

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I could use a list of goals.

mossy zinc Jul 28, 2020, 2:28 PM

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https://imgur.com/a/c6ff3KX

Imgur

honest kernel Jul 28, 2020, 2:28 PM

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I mean u can use nyas list

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there

mossy zinc Jul 28, 2020, 2:29 PM

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Everything at the bottom hasn't been done on 40+ yet.

honest kernel Jul 28, 2020, 2:29 PM

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I think blitz disc could be good

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not 50+ good but good

proud jay Jul 28, 2020, 2:29 PM

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hmm i've done 39 hera

sharp cobalt Jul 28, 2020, 2:29 PM

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I think if Blitz Disc actually went to your cursor and stayed there it'd be loads better.

proud jay Jul 28, 2020, 2:29 PM

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could push it a bit

sharp cobalt Jul 28, 2020, 2:29 PM

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And moved a bit faster.

daring hedge Jul 28, 2020, 2:30 PM

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zeus aspect to me seems like it has very high skill ceiling potential

sharp cobalt Jul 28, 2020, 2:30 PM

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What spear is that?

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Achilles?

honest kernel Jul 28, 2020, 2:30 PM

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I did a 32 run recently with blitz disc and put divine flourish on it which allowed me to avoid a lot of dmg

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bc you can just run while the disc is doing the job

sharp cobalt Jul 28, 2020, 2:30 PM

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And Chiron bow too, huh.

honest kernel Jul 28, 2020, 2:30 PM

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not very TD friendly tho

sharp cobalt Jul 28, 2020, 2:30 PM

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I'm sure I could do those once I climb up heat a little.

tidal flame Jul 28, 2020, 2:30 PM

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Frisbee run hmm

mossy zinc Jul 28, 2020, 2:31 PM

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Zeus Aspect is the most reliable aspect for a Merciful End build.

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Doom on Attack or Special + Deflect on Attack, Special, or Dash.

honest kernel Jul 28, 2020, 2:32 PM

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thats a good idea

sharp cobalt Jul 28, 2020, 2:32 PM

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It's sort of hard to aim the shield at mobile bosses though sometimes.

mossy zinc Jul 28, 2020, 2:32 PM

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It's not mine. But yes, it is.

sharp cobalt Jul 28, 2020, 2:32 PM

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Dad moves around a lot.

mossy zinc Jul 28, 2020, 2:35 PM

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Just kill him. He stops moving so much when he dies.

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squirtdevious

sharp cobalt Jul 28, 2020, 2:36 PM

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Then I can proc merciful end 😄

mossy zinc Jul 28, 2020, 2:36 PM

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@tidal flame Merciless Beginning?

tidal flame Jul 28, 2020, 2:37 PM

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Yeah, the infamous

honest kernel Jul 28, 2020, 2:38 PM

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a good strat for me was just letting the shield chase you

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then you can steer it into the bosses

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but it doesnt have the best controls agreed

sharp cobalt Jul 28, 2020, 2:38 PM

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I should give that a shot.

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I wish it would just move quickly where it was pointed.

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It'd be way more usable.

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Or heck, move where it was pointed in general.

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Rather than lazily sauntering off into the horizon.

honest kernel Jul 28, 2020, 2:39 PM

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https://youtu.be/lfxtpBqfvM4?t=965

YouTube

Toffel's Tech Basement

Hades - 32 HEAT Beyblade Run

Aspect of Zeus+Divine Flourish and lots of Demeter Boons
styx was a bit messy otherwise this one is pretty clean, beyblade is fun

▶ Play video

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I think I just did that in this run like running circoles w the shield

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gonna see how viable that is at high heat

mossy zinc Jul 28, 2020, 2:40 PM

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You could check out the Zeus Aspect part of the first Hermes Cup, too. Vorime and . . . OtherGuy.

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I'm . . . I'm pretty sure that's the name of the other guy. squirtdevious

daring hedge Jul 28, 2020, 2:41 PM

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the blitz disc's slow flight speed is more of a good thing than bad for most situations, really

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otherwise its damage would whiz right past most capably quick foes

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the radius for its damage is fairly generous

sharp cobalt Jul 28, 2020, 2:42 PM

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I think it'd be more useful if it just zipped over to your cursor and stood there though.

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More control is usually better than less.

daring hedge Jul 28, 2020, 2:42 PM

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wouldn't really work out with gamepad if you have a cursor-based destination point in mind

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for now it's fixed, and i bet it'll stay that way

sharp cobalt Jul 28, 2020, 2:43 PM

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Oh that's true. Controllers would hate that huh.

honest kernel Jul 28, 2020, 2:43 PM

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hades has to work with a limited control sceme

tidal flame Jul 28, 2020, 2:45 PM

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You can consistently hit Hades with frisbee disc if you play around corners

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Really risky though

mossy zinc Jul 28, 2020, 2:46 PM

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I like that about Hades and all the Supergiant Games games: simple controls, but deep gameplay.

trim sigil Jul 28, 2020, 2:46 PM

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Time to steal chiron 40 before its too late bouldy

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Also ye, simple controls with deep interactions are my favorite too

mossy zinc Jul 28, 2020, 2:47 PM

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You're becoming the hero of the low tier aspects.

sharp cobalt Jul 28, 2020, 2:48 PM

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Chiron is good, honestly.

mossy zinc Jul 28, 2020, 2:48 PM

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Uh huh.

sharp cobalt Jul 28, 2020, 2:48 PM

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Well I like it ;-;

trim sigil Jul 28, 2020, 2:48 PM

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It's good buuuut... it needs a lot to work

honest kernel Jul 28, 2020, 2:48 PM

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chiron is bad rama sry

daring hedge Jul 28, 2020, 2:49 PM

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i've never enjoyed chiron very much tbh

sharp cobalt Jul 28, 2020, 2:49 PM

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I will show you all, I swear.

mossy zinc Jul 28, 2020, 2:49 PM

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Coronacht is bad Beowulf Charged Flight.

honest kernel Jul 28, 2020, 2:49 PM

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lmao

daring hedge Jul 28, 2020, 2:49 PM

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you should! i'm def interested in a 40+ chiron run to see what it would look like

honest kernel Jul 28, 2020, 2:50 PM

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every weapon is possible for 40 I believe in u

sharp cobalt Jul 28, 2020, 2:50 PM

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I need more practice. But I will show everyone!

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And I guess get some recording software.

mossy zinc Jul 28, 2020, 2:51 PM

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Coronacht: "I'ma charge this attack for . . . 40 damage!"
Beowulf: "You do you, bow."

daring hedge Jul 28, 2020, 2:51 PM

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OBS is really nice and easy for recording if you don't have anything

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free, too

static plover Jul 28, 2020, 2:51 PM

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Also open source

mossy zinc Jul 28, 2020, 2:51 PM

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You know what else is free?

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40 Heat with Beowulf. squirtdevious

static plover Jul 28, 2020, 2:52 PM

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~~my soul~~

daring hedge Jul 28, 2020, 2:52 PM

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lol true

sharp cobalt Jul 28, 2020, 2:52 PM

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Free? More like needs charged throw :3

mossy zinc Jul 28, 2020, 2:54 PM

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I don't think so.

trim sigil Jul 28, 2020, 2:54 PM

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Chiron 40 is definitely feasible with aphro attack and arty special

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Just needs a bit more to take off

mossy zinc Jul 28, 2020, 2:57 PM

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Any aspect can do 40.

tidal flame Jul 28, 2020, 2:58 PM

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chiron is bad rama sry
and Zag Bow is a bad Zag Bow, Hestia is a godd Zag Bow

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Give bow some love please ༼ つ ◕‿◕ ༽つ

trim sigil Jul 28, 2020, 2:58 PM

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Beo is good hestia

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there is your lovent

daring hedge Jul 28, 2020, 2:59 PM

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so many non-bows are better bows than bow

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failbag

trim sigil Jul 28, 2020, 2:59 PM

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#saynotobowbias

tidal flame Jul 28, 2020, 2:59 PM

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Tfw SGG takes everything is a bow too seriously

trim sigil Jul 28, 2020, 3:00 PM

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Spear is flurry shot bow
Shield is explosive shot bow
Rail is... also a flurry shot bow? hmm

proud jay Jul 28, 2020, 3:13 PM

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well i just beat 40 with hera

daring hedge Jul 28, 2020, 3:13 PM

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yeehaw

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nyaa add another to the list

proud jay Jul 28, 2020, 3:14 PM

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no video tho, maybe this motivates me to setup recording and streaming stuff

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very surprised i made it with 5-sack and tight deadline 2

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got both chaos and athena dd's with stubborn defiance on dusa

daring hedge Jul 28, 2020, 3:15 PM

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5-sack bouldy

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my biggest oof ever

proud jay Jul 28, 2020, 3:16 PM

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damage was good fortunately

daring hedge Jul 28, 2020, 3:16 PM

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i don't honestly know if i've ever gotten 5-sack? 4, sure, but 5 is cruel

proud jay Jul 28, 2020, 3:16 PM

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+50% cast from charon shop makes a big difference for hera

trim sigil Jul 28, 2020, 3:16 PM

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I got 5sack waaay back then on like 8 heat

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4sack with zag sword

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crush shot on hera
Madlad

proud jay Jul 28, 2020, 3:17 PM

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it's hard to get enough damage with other shots imo

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and it does aoe

honest kernel Jul 28, 2020, 3:18 PM

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nice

trim sigil Jul 28, 2020, 3:18 PM

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Well, yeah, but didn't crush specifically have hitbox issues when hera launches it past target?

proud jay Jul 28, 2020, 3:18 PM

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yeah sometimes

trim sigil Jul 28, 2020, 3:18 PM

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Then indeed madlad bouldy

proud jay Jul 28, 2020, 3:18 PM

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but i try to undershoot rather than overshoot

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FO2 kinda forces you to do that anyway

tidal flame Jul 28, 2020, 3:19 PM

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I find Poseidon more consistent on Hera than Crush Shot

proud jay Jul 28, 2020, 3:19 PM

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they tend to be left all over the place

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and i feel like crush shot scales way better with poms?

trim sigil Jul 28, 2020, 3:21 PM

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Probably just because of higher base

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But maybe

proud jay Jul 28, 2020, 3:21 PM

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could be

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there's an argument for a possibility of blizzard shot though

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which tends to wreck faces

daring hedge Jul 28, 2020, 3:22 PM

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not as much as it used to though shadegrief

mossy zinc Jul 28, 2020, 3:23 PM

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No video, no add. squirtnya

proud jay Jul 28, 2020, 3:23 PM

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yeah i figured

daring hedge Jul 28, 2020, 3:25 PM

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oh speaking of that nyaa

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just put the vid in #self-promotion

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also paging @autumn sable

tidal flame Jul 28, 2020, 3:27 PM

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No shoe no service
No vid no add

trim sigil Jul 28, 2020, 3:43 PM

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Oh yea, if krasher comes by, may you add 40 heat zag blade to table? bouldy

mossy zinc Jul 28, 2020, 4:09 PM

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@daring hedge that's good to know. Now I can never watch it like all the others. dusa

proud jay Jul 28, 2020, 4:18 PM

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42 heat hera done, recorded this time (as long as things worked as intended)

trim sigil Jul 28, 2020, 4:24 PM

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Keep that tempo and beat 58 heat in 10 hours

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dusaHeart

proud jay Jul 28, 2020, 4:24 PM

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bouldy

honest kernel Jul 28, 2020, 4:30 PM

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nice

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with crush shot insanity

proud jay Jul 28, 2020, 4:30 PM

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i just like it best

honest kernel Jul 28, 2020, 4:31 PM

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I mean its not bad I just always hated how u have to aim with it

proud jay Jul 28, 2020, 4:31 PM

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behaved weirdly against spearmen but otherwise it was all good

tidal flame Jul 28, 2020, 4:35 PM

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@mossy zinc we had a 40 eris clear? What

mossy zinc Jul 28, 2020, 4:36 PM

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Apparently.

tidal flame Jul 28, 2020, 4:38 PM

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That was pre Nighty Night though

mossy zinc Jul 28, 2020, 5:00 PM

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Apparently.

trim sigil Jul 28, 2020, 5:14 PM

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chiron 43
hydra killed me by 5 bloodless summons

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residentzag

proud jay Jul 28, 2020, 5:16 PM

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chiron is just awkward

trim sigil Jul 28, 2020, 5:38 PM

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I desperately lack a sword dash strike to cleave through all the filler enemies

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Chiron is god against single targets, but most of the time it's swarms

trim sigil Jul 28, 2020, 6:43 PM

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Hmm... no, I can't save chiron for now

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Even with epic arty special, relentless volley and few chaos boons, damage is barely passable, and that much is very hard to get

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AP1 blocking Deadly Flourish 4 times in a row, too

sharp cobalt Jul 28, 2020, 7:12 PM

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I shall do Chiron. I have declared it.

tidal flame Jul 28, 2020, 8:05 PM

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You can't just say it. You declare it.

mossy zinc Jul 28, 2020, 8:06 PM

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Less declaring, more doing. squirtnya

honest kernel Jul 28, 2020, 8:10 PM

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I think I gotta take a break from running hades or else im too burnt out when 1.0 comes around

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its gonna be this year right?

daring hedge Jul 28, 2020, 8:10 PM

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yeah

honest kernel Jul 28, 2020, 8:10 PM

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ah nice

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time to wait for bow buffs then dusa

trim sigil Jul 28, 2020, 8:12 PM

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Can we just let bows have charged flight for attack?

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squirtnya

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Ah well, gotta give up my bragging privileges and downgrade to 40 to hopefully get somewhere

mossy zinc Jul 28, 2020, 8:17 PM

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@trim sigil maybe watch some Chiron speedruns and see what they do.

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@honest kernel taking breaks and playing other games or whatever is definitely important.

honest kernel Jul 28, 2020, 8:18 PM

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thanks friendly

mossy zinc Jul 28, 2020, 8:18 PM

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Can't play at your best anyway if you're not having fun because it's getting just stressful or frustrating.

daring hedge Jul 28, 2020, 8:18 PM

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definitely agree

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i had to take breaks between 50 heat attempts just so i wouldn't find it plain unpleasant to play and all

honest kernel Jul 28, 2020, 8:18 PM

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I'm happy that I got 41 once

mossy zinc Jul 28, 2020, 8:20 PM

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I've definitely felt like "oh no, I have to do x now because somebody broke my record y, and if I don't do it now, then somebody else will do it first, and then . . ." at one point or another.

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But then I realized I was just getting frustrated with things and not having any fun.

daring hedge Jul 28, 2020, 8:21 PM

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wow, yeah i'm familiar with that whole feeling too

honest kernel Jul 28, 2020, 8:22 PM

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yeah I catch myself getting really competitive sometimes shadeembarassed

daring hedge Jul 28, 2020, 8:22 PM

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and then i have to take a step back and see that i'm placing unnecessary pressure on myself

tidal flame Jul 28, 2020, 8:22 PM

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I think a daily 32 streak can be done

mossy zinc Jul 28, 2020, 8:22 PM

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52 Heat with Beowulf actually happened because of a moment like that lol.

tidal flame Jul 28, 2020, 8:23 PM

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With relatively minimal stress while being challenging

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One run per day keeps the burn out away

mossy zinc Jul 28, 2020, 8:24 PM

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I somehow felt I had to prove I can do 41 with all the weapons. At first it was just for fun with Beowulf after doing Hestia.

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Then I kept failing with Guan Yu and Coronacht even though it was just frustrating me to no end, and I got really sick of playing those weapons lol.

tidal flame Jul 28, 2020, 8:25 PM

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That's how I felt with fists tbh

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time to wait for bow buffs then
Me and you both

mossy zinc Jul 28, 2020, 8:27 PM

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Then a day or two later, I was like, I don't actually want to play these. I want to play Beowulf. Beowulf was fun and easy, I bet I could do 52 with it if I practice because it's so broken.

honest kernel Jul 28, 2020, 8:27 PM

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in any way I adore everyone being so helpful in the community friendly

mossy zinc Jul 28, 2020, 8:28 PM

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💗

daring hedge Jul 28, 2020, 8:28 PM

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the SGG community generally being so supportive really is great

tidal flame Jul 28, 2020, 8:28 PM

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@honest kernel sounds like a goodbye shadegrief

honest kernel Jul 28, 2020, 8:29 PM

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not rly

mossy zinc Jul 28, 2020, 8:29 PM

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I also stopped trying to make Chaos Aspect work for me lol.

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Maybe I'll come back to it at some point.

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I just don't like how loooooong it takes to kill bosses with it.

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It's so frustrating lol.

tidal flame Jul 28, 2020, 8:30 PM

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I kinda want to grind 58 heat with reloading

daring hedge Jul 28, 2020, 8:30 PM

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a lot of why i kept climbing with hades aspect was simply because i like how it feels to play lol. i used to incorporate spins pretty often even back when most of the playerbase insisted that spins were slow and awkward

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i honestly think if you just enjoy a weapon enough you can take it pretty far

tidal flame Jul 28, 2020, 8:30 PM

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So not a "run" but like a gradual project

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One chamber per day

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No hit

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With some routing to make life easier

honest kernel Jul 28, 2020, 8:31 PM

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interesting

mossy zinc Jul 28, 2020, 8:31 PM

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I really like Beowulf. The whole toolset just works really well.

tidal flame Jul 28, 2020, 8:32 PM

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Are you really doing Beo if you don't dragon rush squirtdevious

daring hedge Jul 28, 2020, 8:32 PM

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i do wish that its cast-loading attack side was as strong as its potential with special, though

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it feels a bit backwards currently

mossy zinc Jul 28, 2020, 8:32 PM

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Although I definitely do want Charged Flight for it, but that's just because of the difficulty I play at lol.

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Well.

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The Dragon Rush can be really strong with Infernal Soul.

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But with RI3, it changes a lot.

daring hedge Jul 28, 2020, 8:33 PM

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yeah, the burst is definitely there. it's just not nearly as versatile or easy to use "bang for your buck" as charged flight specials

mossy zinc Jul 28, 2020, 8:34 PM

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But still it can do a lot of work.

daring hedge Jul 28, 2020, 8:34 PM

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for sure, i don't think it's bad or anything

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but as you absolutely know, charged flight specials on beo get silly very easily

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while playing around cast loading takes more work generally, i'd say

tidal flame Jul 28, 2020, 8:35 PM

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I'm afraid that they will change Charged Flight in the next patch

daring hedge Jul 28, 2020, 8:36 PM

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if they nerf it, they better buff bow in the same patch squirtdevious

tidal flame Jul 28, 2020, 8:36 PM

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Yes please

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I'll sacrifice Charged Flight for a bow buff

mossy zinc Jul 28, 2020, 8:36 PM

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I think they will for sure change it on Beowulf to not make the immediate release faster than the normal throw.

daring hedge Jul 28, 2020, 8:36 PM

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charged flight is where all the bow power went, after all

mossy zinc Jul 28, 2020, 8:37 PM

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I don't know if they will nerf the damage.

tidal flame Jul 28, 2020, 8:37 PM

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Charged Flight is the bow Coronacht wanted to be when it grows up.

mossy zinc Jul 28, 2020, 8:37 PM

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We do need some aspects to eventually beat max heat with lol.

daring hedge Jul 28, 2020, 8:38 PM

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the sheer amount of damage you get simply for charging (for basically the same time as a bow power shot) is kind of ridiculous now, though

mossy zinc Jul 28, 2020, 8:38 PM

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It's not.

daring hedge Jul 28, 2020, 8:38 PM

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it feels wildly disproportionate to the commitment

mossy zinc Jul 28, 2020, 8:38 PM

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It's perfectly fine.

daring hedge Jul 28, 2020, 8:38 PM

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lol

mossy zinc Jul 28, 2020, 8:39 PM

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Please buff.

tidal flame Jul 28, 2020, 8:39 PM

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SF was perfectly fine, too

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Please buff SF

mossy zinc Jul 28, 2020, 8:39 PM

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No, it wasn't.

honest kernel Jul 28, 2020, 8:39 PM

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Yeah, it was, before they had to change it.

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I'm still salty about losing the actual shotgun.

tidal flame Jul 28, 2020, 8:39 PM

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I want it back like Nighty Night

daring hedge Jul 28, 2020, 8:39 PM

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remember super-wide shotgun crush shot

tidal flame Jul 28, 2020, 8:39 PM

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Shattering Shot

mossy zinc Jul 28, 2020, 8:40 PM

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Shatter Shot.

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It's just as wide as it was then.

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The damage was nerfed a lot, though.

daring hedge Jul 28, 2020, 8:41 PM

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ah yeah, not as wide as i remembered

mossy zinc Jul 28, 2020, 8:41 PM

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And they broke the synergy with Unhealthy Fixation by making it 1 hit instead of 5.

daring hedge Jul 28, 2020, 8:41 PM

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certainly much longer though, wow

mossy zinc Jul 28, 2020, 8:42 PM

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Did it have more range?

honest kernel Jul 28, 2020, 8:42 PM

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I wanna say yes.

daring hedge Jul 28, 2020, 8:42 PM

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extremely http://puu.sh/GbYPk/ba75fff76b.jpg

mossy zinc Jul 28, 2020, 8:42 PM

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When was that?

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I only started playing in December with the Steam "release". It wasn't that far then lol.

daring hedge Jul 28, 2020, 8:43 PM

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vo. 23932, not sure of the patch # offhand

mossy zinc Jul 28, 2020, 8:46 PM

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Why not?

daring hedge Jul 28, 2020, 8:46 PM

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i just pulled it from a video that featured shatter shot lol

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so only going off the corner vo.

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was uploaded mid-January of this year, though

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welcome to hell update apparently

trim sigil Jul 28, 2020, 8:48 PM

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maybe watch some Chiron speedruns and see what they do.
there are no chiron speedruns

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Best there is is haelian's 6 months old arty build

weary sedge Jul 28, 2020, 8:49 PM

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Ah, I miss old Shatter Shot

mossy zinc Jul 28, 2020, 8:50 PM

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I'm very sure they used Chiron in the first Hermes Cup.

tidal flame Jul 28, 2020, 8:50 PM

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they did not

proud jay Jul 28, 2020, 8:50 PM

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they just used the special

mossy zinc Jul 28, 2020, 8:50 PM

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Or maybe it was the test run for the Hermes Cup.

tidal flame Jul 28, 2020, 8:50 PM

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they used hera

mossy zinc Jul 28, 2020, 8:51 PM

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Anyway.

tidal flame Jul 28, 2020, 8:51 PM

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Chiron is this week

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if you want to tune in 😄

mossy zinc Jul 28, 2020, 8:51 PM

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Just err.. just do a speedrun with Chiron yourself.

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Then you can watch that.

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squirtnya

trim sigil Jul 28, 2020, 8:51 PM

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... not wrong ig

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1 hour speedrun time

tidal flame Jul 28, 2020, 8:51 PM

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what does ig mean?

trim sigil Jul 28, 2020, 8:52 PM

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i guess

mossy zinc Jul 28, 2020, 8:52 PM

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It means no entry for yellow dogs.

trim sigil Jul 28, 2020, 8:53 PM

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Also being a salt mine rn, but dear lord isn't even zag blade more reliable and varied than bows

daring hedge Jul 28, 2020, 8:53 PM

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do space foxes count as yellow dogs or am i good

mossy zinc Jul 28, 2020, 8:54 PM

#

You did 50 Heat, so you're good. squirtdevious

tidal flame Jul 28, 2020, 8:54 PM

#

@daring hedge you should look into the speedrun cup. I am sure you will do well

#

please ban nyaa for gatekeeping

daring hedge Jul 28, 2020, 8:54 PM

#

ohhh i might!

#

is there any method for signing up or not really

mossy zinc Jul 28, 2020, 8:54 PM

#

I'm not gatekeeping.

#

Cerberus is.

tidal flame Jul 28, 2020, 8:55 PM

#

contact jerds, you can probably look for him on this server somewhere. just message him (i got in somehow, i'm not even that good xD)

#

@mossy zinc Cerberus is good boy, don't drag him into this.

mossy zinc Jul 28, 2020, 8:56 PM

#

The last part was unnecessary.

daring hedge Jul 28, 2020, 8:56 PM

#

not that good, he says, as he sits at #1 in highest heat http://puu.sh/GbZ8A/a28cea839c.png

#

(yes i know it's based on IGT)

tidal flame Jul 28, 2020, 8:56 PM

#

32heat speedrun has 0 submission

#

let me do a 50mins run and claim WR

daring hedge Jul 28, 2020, 8:57 PM

#

oh wow yeah lol

mossy zinc Jul 28, 2020, 8:57 PM

#

Plus, they just removed my 41-Heat run that was faster than his lol.

tidal flame Jul 28, 2020, 8:58 PM

#

does Charged Flight Beowulf really count squirtdevious

honest kernel Jul 28, 2020, 8:58 PM

#

Spread Fire runs counted, so does Charged Flight.

mossy zinc Jul 28, 2020, 8:59 PM

#

I don't know. Try submitting 52 with Charged Flight and see for yourself.

#

I'm like 4th place on the speedrun board now.

#

So maybe it doesn't. squirtooh

tidal flame Jul 28, 2020, 9:00 PM

#

obviously worse than I am

daring hedge Jul 28, 2020, 9:01 PM

#

once my 50 hades aspect gets in i'll be at whopping second place

#

can nobody defeat foxhope, truly

tidal flame Jul 28, 2020, 9:02 PM

#

but seriously, you should think about messaging jerds

proud jay Jul 28, 2020, 9:04 PM

#

50 hades aspect is serious business ngl

daring hedge Jul 28, 2020, 9:04 PM

#

i've basically dedicated myself to that aspect in particular for a while now lol

#

i need to take a break and branch out again just for a change of pace

tidal flame Jul 28, 2020, 9:05 PM

#

do GY

#

xD

daring hedge Jul 28, 2020, 9:05 PM

#

oh geez

proud jay Jul 28, 2020, 9:06 PM

#

the point of GY is kind of lost in high heat

tidal flame Jul 28, 2020, 9:06 PM

#

how so?

daring hedge Jul 28, 2020, 9:06 PM

#

RI2 on top of the health penalty shadeembarassed

tidal flame Jul 28, 2020, 9:07 PM

#

it's 25hp bro

mossy zinc Jul 28, 2020, 9:07 PM

#

So does 50 Heat mean you pulled horheristo with his 50 Heat down to top 4 or do you both share top 3 now? thanthink

tidal flame Jul 28, 2020, 9:07 PM

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what's the bid deal

#

well technically 50 heat is "4th" place

#

we have:
53 Chaos
53 Nemesis (with some routing)
52 Beowulf
51 Chaos
50 Beowulf Hades

mossy zinc Jul 28, 2020, 9:09 PM

#

I'm not counting Haelian twice lol.

tidal flame Jul 28, 2020, 9:10 PM

#

yeah 4th is without counting Haelian twice

#

it just depends on how you view the Nemesis run

daring hedge Jul 28, 2020, 9:10 PM

#

in terms of routing you mean?

mossy zinc Jul 28, 2020, 9:10 PM

#

And I'm definitely not counting routing in the same category when literally every other run on the board had only a seed at most.

daring hedge Jul 28, 2020, 9:11 PM

#

i guess i can be extra thankful that i didn't route because i didn't think i'd want dio at all and was forced to take him

tidal flame Jul 28, 2020, 9:11 PM

#

tbh the line between that route and a normal successful run is kinda blurry imo

daring hedge Jul 28, 2020, 9:11 PM

#

turned out great, weirdly

mossy zinc Jul 28, 2020, 9:11 PM

#

1 hammer + 2 boons is a world of difference from just 1 hammer or 1 boon.

tidal flame Jul 28, 2020, 9:11 PM

#

I really don't want to do the whole seeding argument again

mossy zinc Jul 28, 2020, 9:12 PM

#

It's not seeding. It's routing lol.

tidal flame Jul 28, 2020, 9:12 PM

#

but if you have Charged Flight + Heartbreak Flourish, on the first 3 rooms, I don't see a big different between Double Edge + Hunter Dash

#

I am going by functional difference

#

I'll concede the divine strike though

mossy zinc Jul 28, 2020, 9:14 PM

#

If you start to consider routing in the same category, you really drop all standards. That will have a very bad effect on future runs.

tidal flame Jul 28, 2020, 9:14 PM

#

but if we want to talk about difference, a routed run for hammer + desired boon in first 3 rooms is not functionally different from a non routed run that gets hammer + 1 desired boon also in first 3 rooms.

#

if you want to keep up the grind, sure thing

#

but I also respect those who doesn't want to to do that

mossy zinc Jul 28, 2020, 9:15 PM

#

A lot of successful runs did not get the boon they wanted anywhere close to chamber 3 or at all even.

tidal flame Jul 28, 2020, 9:15 PM

#

as long as they are forthcoming about it

#

but what if they do

#

what then?

#

should those runs be counted as routed?

mossy zinc Jul 28, 2020, 9:16 PM

#

I don't disrespect 53 Heat with routing. I simply don't consider it in the same category because it isn't.

tidal flame Jul 28, 2020, 9:16 PM

#

what if you accidentally get a good start that's no different than a routed run?

#

is that a routed run now?

#

that's what I meant when I say no functional difference. the line is blurry because RNG muddles things

mossy zinc Jul 28, 2020, 9:18 PM

#

God, I'm done lol.

trim sigil Jul 28, 2020, 9:19 PM

#

That is painfully similar to AP2 arguments

tidal flame Jul 28, 2020, 9:19 PM

#

I was about to type AP2 lol

proud jay Jul 28, 2020, 9:31 PM

#

tbh i wish sgg made rng more unpredictable

#

some NES games from 1987 have better rng functions

tidal flame Jul 28, 2020, 9:33 PM

#

high heat people don't like variants in their games lol

trim sigil Jul 28, 2020, 9:35 PM

#

Yeah, why not rock with zeus attack on bow instead of aphro

#

pathetic

proud jay Jul 28, 2020, 9:35 PM

#

my 42 heat hera had zeus attack

trim sigil Jul 28, 2020, 9:41 PM

#

bouldy

robust zephyr Jul 28, 2020, 9:42 PM

#

I mean if I had known there was a stigma for routing even for a single boon I would have kept to brute forcing it blind. Mainly did it because I didn't have a lot of time that week. I believed it wouldn't matter considering the speedrun community does it all the time.

#

Athena strike was the common denominator in all those run attempts so even if I tried I couldn't not get it.

proud jay Jul 28, 2020, 9:46 PM

#

can't prove your run is not routed

#

i just don't think it's fun

robust zephyr Jul 28, 2020, 9:46 PM

#

It is routed though

#

For a boon I can confirm

proud jay Jul 28, 2020, 9:46 PM

#

i mean even if it wasn't routed

robust zephyr Jul 28, 2020, 9:46 PM

#

Well I find it a bit arbitrary to downplay that entire run over a single boon.

proud jay Jul 28, 2020, 9:47 PM

#

that's why i think it's sgg's responsibility to make it harder

#

i think most people fish for a good boon in the first few chambers, including me

trim sigil Jul 28, 2020, 9:48 PM

#

Or easier
Not that weird inbetween situation we have rn

proud jay Jul 28, 2020, 9:48 PM

#

it's bad enough that people are routing speedruns up until styx

tidal flame Jul 28, 2020, 9:48 PM

#

unless there is a leaderboard to keep people honest

#

there is no end to this

#

@proud jay why do you think that's bad?

proud jay Jul 28, 2020, 9:50 PM

#

personal preference. takes the fun out of speedrunning this game for me

tidal flame Jul 28, 2020, 9:50 PM

#

also the routes are usually public, to even the playing field as much as possible

#

if there is no route, then we are asking for even more RNG in the game

#

speedrunning something like n64 mario is different

#

the RNG is much less

proud jay Jul 28, 2020, 9:51 PM

#

yeah i know that too

#

but it's sort of ridiculous that people are wasting seconds just standing around to call the rng function the right amount of times

#

makes watching a speedrun a weird experience

tidal flame Jul 28, 2020, 9:55 PM

#

makes watching a speedrun a weird experience
I understand that this is totally personal preference, but watching speedruns for a "standard" experience is hard (not to mentioned Hades speedruns don't even use glitches, unlike a lot of other games).

trim sigil Jul 28, 2020, 9:56 PM

#

Well, that's true that "routing" of hades is rather alienating for viewers. But also consider the fact that the game has to be enjoyable for the runners as well

#

Terraria for example even with glitches is abhorrent experience where you get runs varying in lengths more than runs themselves

proud jay Jul 28, 2020, 9:57 PM

#

the issue i have with it is, it's more about rng magic than actual gameplay

trim sigil Jul 28, 2020, 9:57 PM

#

Speedrun of "kill all" rooms is just dps

robust zephyr Jul 28, 2020, 9:58 PM

#

Does this whole conundrum solve itself if I try 53 heat again without routing I'm frankly wanting this to end. I think I can manage without one boon if I spend the time.

trim sigil Jul 28, 2020, 9:58 PM

#

There is fair amount of skill to keep it high at all times

#

But without proper gear it's all futile

#

Also tbh no

#

It will raise up later anyway, with someone else

proud jay Jul 28, 2020, 9:59 PM

#

there's no proof against routing so they're all in the same category imo

daring hedge Jul 28, 2020, 9:59 PM

#

i don't think any divides here are big enough to classify your run as a conundrum, really

tidal flame Jul 28, 2020, 10:00 PM

#

@robust zephyr it's really not just about your 53 run. right now Hades doesn't have a "standard" for speedrunning or high heat runs

#

it eventually will need to be dicussed

#

now is as good of a time as ever.

#

but I agree with bablo for this:

there's no proof against routing so they're all in the same category imo

trim sigil Jul 28, 2020, 10:07 PM

#

^ as harsh of a point as it is, it's technically true

#

Routing rn can be seamless, while less effective, it will still affect the run

#

Trying to catch every single run on that would be rather toxic community preset

tidal flame Jul 28, 2020, 10:09 PM

#

that's why freshfile% and allweapon% are about as RNGless as it gets.

proud jay Jul 28, 2020, 10:09 PM

#

yeah they're very healthy categories

trim sigil Jul 28, 2020, 10:15 PM

#

~~game routes for you~~ squirtnya

#

2nd run starts from zeus, 3rd from hammer

#

(for freshfile that is; allweapon is chill)

proud jay Jul 28, 2020, 10:52 PM

#

the more i play with chiron the more i'm convinced it's trash

trim sigil Jul 28, 2020, 11:01 PM

#

Welp, at least i'm not alone with that thought process

#

heh

proud jay Jul 28, 2020, 11:02 PM

#

which special are you using?

trim sigil Jul 28, 2020, 11:02 PM

#

Arty (if it isn't blocked by ap1)

#

Otherwise I die before getting second chance for arty or aphro

proud jay Jul 28, 2020, 11:03 PM

#

im trying zeus but it isn't great either

#

another idea i had was poseidon into sea storm

trim sigil Jul 28, 2020, 11:03 PM

#

Zeus is purely detrimental because lightning will proc twice at best

#

Out of 7 shots

proud jay Jul 28, 2020, 11:03 PM

#

huh, really?

trim sigil Jul 28, 2020, 11:03 PM

#

0.2 sec cd

proud jay Jul 28, 2020, 11:03 PM

#

alright that explains

trim sigil Jul 28, 2020, 11:06 PM

#

That actually gave me a certain idea, but I'd tell later how it went

daring hedge Jul 28, 2020, 11:06 PM

#

obviously it's time to try dire misfortune+impending doom on chiron special

#

bouldy

light sedge Jul 28, 2020, 11:07 PM

#

It’s good but it might be better on Rama if you can get the special speed

proud jay Jul 28, 2020, 11:36 PM

#

well i just beat 40 heat with chiron

#

didn't expect that to work out so didn't record it

#

but with that setup pretty much any aspect would work

#

also yet another 5-sack clear

autumn sable Jul 28, 2020, 11:52 PM

#

@daring hedge you sexy man, you. I’ll check it out ASAP

trim sigil Jul 28, 2020, 11:56 PM

#

but with that setup pretty much any aspect would work
which is?

sharp cobalt Jul 28, 2020, 11:59 PM

#

With Chiron you want Demeter or Dionysus special, honestly.

bronze viper Jul 29, 2020, 12:02 AM

#

Dio special is so loose though. Rama + Relentless Volley spread and applies it so much more consistently

#

The main advantage of Chiron is Consecutive + Relentless

sharp cobalt Jul 29, 2020, 12:03 AM

#

That's why I prefer Demeter.

#

Especially if you get the wintery blast talent.

#

Super super strong.

bronze viper Jul 29, 2020, 12:03 AM

#

Definitely need Relentless for that though

sharp cobalt Jul 29, 2020, 12:03 AM

#

But even without it, keeping bosses slowed constantly is handly.

#

Not mandatory, but helpful.

#

7 shots is plenty.

bronze viper Jul 29, 2020, 12:05 AM

#

If only Chiron could get that hammer that Rama used to be able to get, for its special to ricochet

sharp cobalt Jul 29, 2020, 12:05 AM

#

But overall, there are only 10 hammer upgrades that Aspect of Chiron allows, so you can fairly reliably get relentless or Concentrated.

#

Both of which make it very good.

bronze viper Jul 29, 2020, 12:06 AM

#

Chiron is also randomly quite good at hitting Greatshields

sharp cobalt Jul 29, 2020, 12:06 AM

#

I think it's underrated.

bronze viper Jul 29, 2020, 12:06 AM

#

I think it's adequately rated lol

#

It is a fricken nightmare, with DC2 (because normally Chiron is great against that) against the tiny rats in Styx

sharp cobalt Jul 29, 2020, 12:07 AM

#

Tiny rats are always a pain with DC2.

#

Tiny rats are kind of the worst really.

#

I try to get a good dash to handle them.

bronze viper Jul 29, 2020, 12:08 AM

#

Rama + Relentless does fine. You get hit every once in a while of no fault of your own, but who doesn't really

#

Rats are horrible enemies

proud jay Jul 29, 2020, 12:09 AM

#

@trim sigil ss posted at victory boasting. zeus+poseidon legendaries and sea storm

#

also poseidon dash and calls, which i ended up using more than special

bronze viper Jul 29, 2020, 12:09 AM

#

Chiron's biggest weakness is JS lol

proud jay Jul 29, 2020, 12:10 AM

#

also it turns out those 5-sacks i was talking about were 4-sacks. apparently i had problems counting how many gates there were at styx bouldy

sharp cobalt Jul 29, 2020, 12:11 AM

#

Counting his hard.

bronze viper Jul 29, 2020, 12:12 AM

#

I'm so annoyed, I got 49 with Rama on a practice run last week, and i Haven't been able to close another one out since. Keep getting brickwalled on Hades fight. You don't really have single target dps so you have to tickle him to death with 4-5 minutes

sharp cobalt Jul 29, 2020, 12:16 AM

#

What are your boon goals with Rama?

trim sigil Jul 29, 2020, 12:22 AM

#

That's a lot of silliness in the build indeed. Poseidon zeus double leggie

#

Anyway, I tried dio special on chiron, feels decent, activates PS, chips enemies even with spread
But I died to elite archers in elysium again calawheeze

#

How even

#

And they were Seeker again so I got mild brain tumor

sharp cobalt Jul 29, 2020, 12:24 AM

#

give Demeter special a shot some time.

trim sigil Jul 29, 2020, 12:25 AM

#

Not a fan of chill ngl, but maybe

bronze viper Jul 29, 2020, 12:30 AM

#

Relentless + Dionysus special, aiming to stack poms on it while you can, and get whatever attack boons or hammers or hunter dash you can find

trim sigil Jul 29, 2020, 12:32 AM

#

Tbh with relentless might as well refer to traditional special boons rather than dio

#

11 arrows with 5 hangover cap is overkill

#

7 with 5 is fairly balanced

#

(ofc there is aphro dio duo but it's mere dreams)

bronze viper Jul 29, 2020, 12:35 AM

#

Rama

#

Is 7 arrows

#

with relentles

trim sigil Jul 29, 2020, 12:35 AM

#

Ah, I assumed chiron

#

And intervened the discussion too

#

squirtyay

#

Ye relentless diorama is neat

bronze viper Jul 29, 2020, 12:36 AM

#

It carries until Styx

#

Then it falls off a cliff

trim sigil Jul 29, 2020, 12:37 AM

#

Ends up in satyr's sack

bronze viper Jul 29, 2020, 12:39 AM

#

But I like it (and assume it's the best option at very high heat) because past Relentless and Flourish you don't need any more support, you're free to take whatever Attack and defensive stuff you want from that point on

trim sigil Jul 29, 2020, 1:18 AM

#

The more i play that game, the more i realize how bad i do so squirtmeh
Probably should take a mild chill break for low heat streaks or something, instead of all that

#

Chiron is favorite bow aspect but it just refuses to work against speedy 20 dmg enemies in my hands

proud jay Jul 29, 2020, 1:27 AM

#

i didn't put on any FO for 40 heat

#

actually went +20%

trim sigil Jul 29, 2020, 1:48 AM

#

Hmm

plush zealot Jul 29, 2020, 2:42 AM

#

thoughts for 50 heat with fists

tidal flame Jul 29, 2020, 2:55 AM

#

Merc End

#

Or Divine Strike

#

Lightning Strike
Unless you are mad genius and come up with something else.

bronze viper Jul 29, 2020, 2:56 AM

#

I'd probably try Divine Strike. Getting duos at 50 is such a pain

#

Or maybe start Artemis Deadly Flourish on Demeter aspect, and hope for Support fire. You can aim for Divine Strike/Dash in Asphodel

mossy zinc Jul 29, 2020, 3:43 AM

#

Updated. https://imgur.com/a/gnXnSmu

Imgur

honest kernel Jul 29, 2020, 3:44 AM

#

Neat.

sharp cobalt Jul 29, 2020, 6:15 AM

#

Didn't someone do 40 with Chiron the other day?

mossy zinc Jul 29, 2020, 6:16 AM

#

If they did, there's no recording I'm aware of.

sharp cobalt Jul 29, 2020, 6:16 AM

#

Just means I've still got a chance to get on the board 😄

plush zealot Jul 29, 2020, 6:24 AM

#

someone did do 40 with chiron the other day yes, but they never recorded it no

mossy zinc Jul 29, 2020, 6:25 AM

#

This entire defense for a run with routing as somehow similar to a run with no routing is extremely disingenous. If routing didn't matter, people wouldn't route.

The rules have also never been "unclear". Krashercorr has always watched the videos to check for any obvious routing or save scumming before adding them to the leaderboard. And no runs that were submitted ever had any routing or save scumming. (There was one run that had unsuccessful routing, and we should certainly come to a conclusion for what to do with that.)

A good faith rule to assume runs were not routed or save-scummed unless there is evidence otherwise should be pretty obvious. We can't prove that every run wasn't save-scummed or routed, but that doesn't mean that when we can prove it, that we should just treat it the same.

This debate wouldn't even be a thing if the run didn't happen to be 53 Heat. If somebody wasn't aware of the no-routing rule and did 40 Heat, you'd just be telling them to do it again and submit that instead. Just like we tell people who didn't record their run to just do it another time if they want to get on the leaderboard.

#

Put it in "Notable mentions/attempts/ongoings" or make a new category for routing or whatever.

#

If rules aren't actually enforced, there's no point in having any.

meager wharf Jul 29, 2020, 6:33 AM

#

Masterfully said

autumn sable Jul 29, 2020, 7:08 AM

#

I’ve never actually said any of that

mossy zinc Jul 29, 2020, 7:09 AM

#

You've never said what?

autumn sable Jul 29, 2020, 7:09 AM

#

Save scumming is impossible to detect and is thus mostly an honor system. I try, but it’s not easy, nor would I have proof.

#

I check for routing but I’ve never said it disqualifies anyone

#

I only don’t include heavily routed runs

mossy zinc Jul 29, 2020, 7:10 AM

#

Well, it should.

autumn sable Jul 29, 2020, 7:10 AM

#

I have included the original post as to the intention of my own personal project

#

Which has nothing to do with lauding runs over other people. Only to showcase what can be done and to encourage more participation, experimentation, and inclusion of more of the community. I have kept mum about all the arguments but this is the last I’ll speak about this.

#

I would like to stay as impartial to all comers as possible so I apologize if this shades of bias. I hope anyone who is looking to get into high heats does not feel discouraged in the slightest by where I land. Wherever that is.

mossy zinc Jul 29, 2020, 7:28 AM

#

Hopefully on the surface.

tidal flame Jul 29, 2020, 7:33 AM

#

¯_(ツ)_/¯

wraith imp Jul 29, 2020, 7:41 AM

#

what is routing?

#

Is that the same as rng manipulation?

mossy zinc Jul 29, 2020, 7:45 AM

#

Yeah.

tidal flame Jul 29, 2020, 7:46 AM

#

Well it goes further than that, it's a degree of RNG manipulation.

#

But technically yes

sharp cobalt Jul 29, 2020, 7:46 AM

#

You could insist that recordings include a previous run that died in them? In a continuous recording.

#

That way you know it's not routed.

mossy zinc Jul 29, 2020, 7:47 AM

#

That seems very unnecessary. The current system has been working fine.

#

No need to be paranoid about which run is or isn't routed.

#

People are generally honest about this kind of stuff.

sharp cobalt Jul 29, 2020, 7:48 AM

#

Fair enough! But people keeping longer recordings on hand could clear up times when the community is suspicious or stuff at least.

#

If things are working out, then there is no problem.

tidal flame Jul 29, 2020, 7:51 AM

#

If people want to cheat I can't see a way out right now

mossy zinc Jul 29, 2020, 7:52 AM

#

If people cheat, they cheat. It's not gonna be a major problem.

#

If you have a category for routing, people shouldn't have a reason to pretend it wasn't routed in some way, either.

sharp cobalt Jul 29, 2020, 7:55 AM

#

In other news, Forced Overtime is painful and I need way more practice with it.

#

And people absolutely would have a reason. It'd probably be easier to get the record in the non-routed category. And internet points are important somehow.

tidal flame Jul 29, 2020, 7:55 AM

#

If you have a category for routing, people shouldn't have a reason to pretend it wasn't routed in some way, either.
No, because routing the first 2 rooms is different from routing all the way up to Styx

#

Can you in good faith categorize 2 rooms route and 36 rooms route together?

mossy zinc Jul 29, 2020, 8:00 AM

#

Well, that's not my problem. I don't do routing at all.

tidal flame Jul 29, 2020, 8:06 AM

#

Cool. Then that solution doesn't seem to work if that's your response.

mossy zinc Jul 29, 2020, 8:07 AM

#

That makes no sense on so many levels.

#

I don't need to come up with a solution for a hypothetical problem in a category I don't personally care for to make a point that I don't want routing in a high heat category that hasn't had any routing up to this point.

#

But to use your "argument" that you like to throw out, what differentiates a run that was routed up to the Hades fight from a run that was only routed up to the 3rd chamber and got lucky after that?

tidal flame Jul 29, 2020, 8:12 AM

#

But you are the one who said this:

If you have a category for routing, people shouldn't have a reason to pretend it wasn't routed in some way, either.

mossy zinc Jul 29, 2020, 8:12 AM

#

Correct.

tidal flame Jul 29, 2020, 8:12 AM

#

Which is your idea so I just pointed out potential problems with it

mossy zinc Jul 29, 2020, 8:13 AM

#

"I don't care" doesn't mean there are no solutions.

sharp cobalt Jul 29, 2020, 8:14 AM

#

I don't think there is much point in a 'minimal routing' sort of category.

mossy zinc Jul 29, 2020, 8:14 AM

#

People cheating isn't even a real issue to begin with.

sharp cobalt Jul 29, 2020, 8:14 AM

#

If you want to route, do it! How much you do is up to your patience I guess.

mossy zinc Jul 29, 2020, 8:15 AM

#

If it happens, it happens.

#

No perfect solution doesn't mean no solutions.

tidal flame Jul 29, 2020, 8:18 AM

#

If you want to route, do it! How much you do is up to your patience I guess.
If you want to grind blind runs, do it! How much you do is up to your patience I guess.

#

(which is fine btw)

mossy zinc Jul 29, 2020, 8:19 AM

#

I don't know if that's supposed to be an argument of some sort for anything.

tidal flame Jul 29, 2020, 8:19 AM

#

Not a jab

#

It's a "to each, their own" statement.

#

So you are right, not an argument, just an observation.

sharp cobalt Jul 29, 2020, 8:21 AM

#

Yeah, that's why it's fine to have a blind category and a routed category.

#

That was my point.

#

Minimal routing just creates a weird sort of artificial cut off situation.

tidal flame Jul 29, 2020, 8:23 AM

#

The devil is in the details though

#

I understand it's unfair to put complete blind, seeded, and routed runs together as one category.

#

But it's unfair, too, to put 2 room route the same as Styx route.

#

How about completely blind runs? It's unfair to put blind runs with seeds, too.

#

But we can't make a separate category for each degree of RNG manipulation because it's both cumbersome and near impossible to verify and classify runs.

mossy zinc Jul 29, 2020, 8:28 AM

#

No perfect categories doesn't mean no categories.

tidal flame Jul 29, 2020, 8:31 AM

#

In my head, the best way to do this is to still rank by heat on the same board but with a large disclaimer of what is seeded/routed, etc. (which Krashercorr already did with most of the runs I think)

#

But I get it if people feel otherwise.

bronze viper Jul 29, 2020, 1:33 PM

#

For my Rama runs, I instantly restart if I don't get Drunken Flourish by room 3 (of any rarity), after seeding for Relentless Volley. I don't route to maintain the "sanctity" of the attempt, but in this case, I see literally no difference between routing to room 3 and what I am doing now. This way just takes a lot lot longer.

I think that lumping room 3 and Styx routing is a bit of a stretch.

#

Though I get that it's really hard to draw a meaningful line, especially since we have 1 person maintaining the leaderboard.

pine anvil Jul 29, 2020, 1:41 PM

#

Question: how do y’all run|| Styx with Tight Deadline? || I’ve hardly ever gotten the ||satyr sack on the first room||, and it seems impossible to speed run this section, especially with less time. Is there a trick to it?

static plover Jul 29, 2020, 1:42 PM

#

saytr sack never shows up in the first tunnel

pine anvil Jul 29, 2020, 1:43 PM

#

Ah. Good to know.

bronze viper Jul 29, 2020, 1:45 PM

#

The trick is being efficient with the mini-boss rooms, as the higher the heat gets, the harder the basic rooms get (to the point that they probably take longer than the mini-bosses)

static plover Jul 29, 2020, 1:46 PM

#

the mini-boss rooms net you better (on average at least) rewards too klinkCozy

bronze viper Jul 29, 2020, 1:47 PM

#

The mini-boss rooms also can't spawn giant packs of Shifter Slugger Snakestones (they really should increase the difficulty rating of this enemy type)

static plover Jul 29, 2020, 1:47 PM

#

that combo sounds evil bittieS

bronze viper Jul 29, 2020, 1:48 PM

#

It is, definitely. So much fun to have no idea where the genesis of the beams could come from when they blink offscreen.

#

Though I really hate the mini boss poison dart Satyr that shoots 5 darts like the frame the boss fight starts

#

Way moreso than Tiny Vermin or whatever. I guess that that fight takes a really long time, but it's pretty straightforward.

proud jay Jul 29, 2020, 1:57 PM

#

how do you keep a seed after dying btw?

#

hold a save file?

light sedge Jul 29, 2020, 2:00 PM

#

Yes, you keep a copy of the save file

#

Tho it’s lost if you already died and started a new run

#

You need to do it before dying

bronze viper Jul 29, 2020, 2:01 PM

#

You just give up before death

#

But yeah you can save seeds by saving the files

light sedge Jul 29, 2020, 2:03 PM

#

I hope a seed system gets implemented to not have this roundabout way forever

proud jay Jul 29, 2020, 2:04 PM

#

would also help races

bronze viper Jul 29, 2020, 2:04 PM

#

It's not roundabout, it's very easy to give up, you have like around 5 seconds to do it

#

What IS roundabout is the process of generating seeds

proud jay Jul 29, 2020, 2:04 PM

#

so wait, you can go to zero health and then give up?

bronze viper Jul 29, 2020, 2:04 PM

#

Which is lots of dishonorable sudoku

light sedge Jul 29, 2020, 2:04 PM

#

Yes but what if I want to move on and not give up on the seed?

#

I dont want a folder full of save files

bronze viper Jul 29, 2020, 2:05 PM

#

Yeah I wholeheartedly agree with you @light sedge I would absolutely love a seed saving system

#

As it stands I would like to do... basically anything right now other than grind 49 on bow, but I already started the project and I want the credit on my main account, so instead I've taken to playing other games entirely when I need a break lol.

#

Even if I want to play Hades.

proud jay Jul 29, 2020, 2:06 PM

#

seems like the bow is not very popular bouldy

bronze viper Jul 29, 2020, 2:07 PM

#

It's not as bad as people say it is, but it is not good, and definitely the worst weapon overall

proud jay Jul 29, 2020, 2:07 PM

#

yeah im doing 44 hera attempts

#

i'd like to tackle chiron too but it's just been terrible so far

bronze viper Jul 29, 2020, 2:08 PM

#

Flamewheels and tiny rats in Styx are just so much of a buzzkill with Chiron. As are any rooms with large waves of anything.

proud jay Jul 29, 2020, 2:08 PM

#

i generally use dash to deal with them

bronze viper Jul 29, 2020, 2:09 PM

#

Yeah I've taken Drunken Dash exclusively for Flamewheels before lol

proud jay Jul 29, 2020, 2:09 PM

#

don't necessarily need a boon to deal with flamewheels if you can make them explode against walls

bronze viper Jul 29, 2020, 2:10 PM

#

Making flamewheels do anything gets to be pretty loose with BP2 FO2

proud jay Jul 29, 2020, 2:10 PM

#

i find the bigboy wheels more troublesome most of the time

#

especially if they are extra fast

bronze viper Jul 29, 2020, 2:10 PM

#

Oh they are, but Chiron isn't uniquely badly suited to dealing with them

proud jay Jul 29, 2020, 2:11 PM

#

well yeah true

bronze viper Jul 29, 2020, 2:12 PM

#

It's also just kind of unfortunate that the best (consistent) Special build is probably on Zag/Hera aspect, with Charged Volley + Consecutive/Relentless

light sedge Jul 29, 2020, 2:12 PM

#

You can usually out range large chariots

bronze viper Jul 29, 2020, 2:13 PM

#

Consecutive + Relentless specifically is better on Chiron, but it's a lot less likely to happen without a third great hammer

light sedge Jul 29, 2020, 2:13 PM

#

But flame wheels are a pain when teleporting around

#

Cause the normal make them run into things technique doesn’t work as well

proud jay Jul 29, 2020, 2:14 PM

#

idk, that's what i still end up doing most of the time

#

since often i don't have any other solution to deal with them

#

i guess we can all agree that elysium is a pain in general

bronze viper Jul 29, 2020, 2:15 PM

#

Lol, yeah. And as we've mentioned before here re: tiny rats in Styx + Damage Control... just don't

#

As tempting as it is to take DC with Chiron... just don't

#

BP2 in Elysium is just a unique kind of hell.

#

BP2 FO2 HL5, JSx I guess

#

JS is kinda weird because it affects the enemies that are rated too low on the difficulty scale, so you end up with floods of Popper Slugger Greatbows

undone raptor Jul 29, 2020, 2:39 PM

#

how does seeding affect how many rooms in styx you get? if you replay a seed differently can it change the number of rooms in styx?

trim sigil Jul 29, 2020, 2:40 PM

#

Pretty sure seeding doesn't fix in stone anything but first room

#

There is a big bunch of variants that game can choose from, finite one but big enough to not rely on learning all of them

#

~~in fact, sometimes it's so messed up that you get different result after reroll on first boon. at least for me~~

undone raptor Jul 29, 2020, 2:45 PM

#

Alright so Styx should be random then

trim sigil Jul 29, 2020, 2:49 PM

#

Ye

hallow stream Jul 29, 2020, 3:12 PM

#

knocking out the rotating 32 heat streak - not sure if we'll complete every aspect, but we'll try

tidal flame Jul 29, 2020, 3:28 PM

#

I'm not sure about the rules

#

But I think rotating by Dark Thirst instead of making a cycle of weapons makes more sense?

trim sigil Jul 29, 2020, 3:31 PM

#

Can't dark thirst just bounce between few select weps instead of always going a true cycle?

tidal flame Jul 29, 2020, 3:33 PM

#

I think it's random

#

So yes that can happen

wise prism Jul 29, 2020, 3:43 PM

#

Anyone can tell me which Mirror Of Night traits, pacts, keepsakes and weapon i should use for 32 heat? can't find a guide for the newest build

proud jay Jul 29, 2020, 3:44 PM

#

any weapon you're comfortable with is fine

#

but i would guess the easiest for most people is chaos shield

trim sigil Jul 29, 2020, 3:48 PM

#

You have to pick a weapon but after that making a whole build in discussion is possible

wise prism Jul 29, 2020, 3:58 PM

#

You have to pick a weapon but after that making a whole build in discussion is possible
@trim sigil In Build Discussion yes?

trim sigil Jul 29, 2020, 3:59 PM

#

🤷 I mean the high heat is here so might as well do it in this chat

wise prism Jul 29, 2020, 4:22 PM

#

then i guess the shield with chaos, i read that it's the easiest from all of the weapons

trim sigil Jul 29, 2020, 4:23 PM

#

Zeus or ares special there, for sure, not much else is vital as far as i recall

#

Mostly just trying to get more zeus effects like jolted

#

As for pacts, well, anything but CP should be good enough. AP could be avoided if you want more steady builds coming up, TD most of the time is rather free with that weapon

mossy zinc Jul 29, 2020, 5:36 PM

#

People seriously exaggerate how easy Chaos Aspect is.

proud jay Jul 29, 2020, 6:22 PM

#

what do you reckon is easier?

mossy zinc Jul 29, 2020, 6:24 PM

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Anything you're comfortable with.

tidal flame Jul 29, 2020, 6:31 PM

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I mean at 32 heat

#

Chaos is more reliable

mossy zinc Jul 29, 2020, 6:31 PM

#

I don't agree with that.

tidal flame Jul 29, 2020, 6:31 PM

#

Doesn't mean it's easy

proud jay Jul 29, 2020, 6:31 PM

#

if nothing else is mentioned i would suggest chaos

tidal flame Jul 29, 2020, 6:37 PM

#

Chaos is reliable at 32 because:

It's a shield, so blocking is nice. And it encourages people to use the blocking feature as the standard combo is Bull Rush + Special
Most Flourish boons work well on it
Doesn't need a hammer to excel
Can accommodate a large variation of Pact configuration (compared to say Zag Bow, Excalibur, Hestia, etc. where options are more constrained i.e. DC)
So I do stand by what I said about Chaos being reliable. Does that always translate to being easier to use? That's up to the user.

mossy zinc Jul 29, 2020, 6:38 PM

#

If you say so.

#

¯_(ツ)_/¯

trim sigil Jul 29, 2020, 7:22 PM

#

I can't imagine more universal aspect than Chaos shield

#

It may be still quite far from true easy option but it's about the easiest we have in possession currently

#

Hades by itself is a hard roguelike smug

mossy zinc Jul 29, 2020, 7:28 PM

#

It deals poor damage to bosses and minibosses, and it relies on a rotation that leaves you immobile whenever you charge.

#

Meanwhile, Hestia, for example, never sacrifices mobility and wrecks through bosses in no time at all from a perfectly safe distance.

honest kernel Jul 29, 2020, 7:43 PM

#

The blocking mechanic almost completely negates the immobility.

mossy zinc Jul 29, 2020, 7:49 PM

#

It doesn't. You only block in one direction. There are three other aspects that allow you to block, anyway.

honest kernel Jul 29, 2020, 7:50 PM

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Yeah, because Aegis is the best weapon in the game.

#

Blocking is far and away the strongest mechanic unique to any weapon.

#

Dashing is the only better defensive option.

mossy zinc Jul 29, 2020, 7:51 PM

#

There are very very few times I favor blocking over mobility.

proud jay Jul 29, 2020, 7:58 PM

#

40 heat Chiron done, this time with video proof

mossy zinc Jul 29, 2020, 7:59 PM

#

Nice! Congratulations! 🥳

proud jay Jul 29, 2020, 7:59 PM

#

dio special and curse of nausea did the trick

bronze viper Jul 29, 2020, 8:00 PM

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That's awesome! 😄

mossy zinc Jul 29, 2020, 8:01 PM

#

https://imgur.com/a/MvzyA0v

Imgur

#

🏹

proud jay Jul 29, 2020, 8:01 PM

#

that's talos right?

mossy zinc Jul 29, 2020, 8:01 PM

#

pew pew

#

Yes.

proud jay Jul 29, 2020, 8:02 PM

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it kinda works like a bad demeter right...

bronze viper Jul 29, 2020, 8:03 PM

#

@mossy zinc How is that list derived?

#

Looks vaguely based from Krasher's but I swear there were more entries on that

tidal flame Jul 29, 2020, 8:04 PM

#

that's just by heat lol

mossy zinc Jul 29, 2020, 8:04 PM

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Highest heat cleared with each aspect.

proud jay Jul 29, 2020, 8:04 PM

#

it's not patch specific right?

bronze viper Jul 29, 2020, 8:04 PM

#

Oh I see, thanks

tidal flame Jul 29, 2020, 8:04 PM

#

no

mossy zinc Jul 29, 2020, 8:04 PM

#

Right. It's not.

tidal flame Jul 29, 2020, 8:04 PM

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the 40 Eris is pre nighty night

proud jay Jul 29, 2020, 8:04 PM

#

im not sure if patches have changed heat options anyway

#

kinda started doing high heat on this patch

#

man 47 heat zag bow seems crazy, i should watch that

bronze viper Jul 29, 2020, 8:06 PM

#

Haelian definitely used every part of the buffalo in the last fight. It was extremely close

mossy zinc Jul 29, 2020, 8:06 PM

#

Well, 40+ overall is easier in Blood Price than it was in Nighty Night.

bronze viper Jul 29, 2020, 8:06 PM

#

I've heard you mention that before, but why is that the case?

proud jay Jul 29, 2020, 8:06 PM

#

i would guess duo boons and some minor buffs to less used stuff

bronze viper Jul 29, 2020, 8:07 PM

#

If duo boons were the reason the difficulty change would likely only apply to 0-45ish

#

Between RI1 and AP2 you just can't really build around duos

mossy zinc Jul 29, 2020, 8:12 PM

#

Bruiser was nerfed hard, Forced Overtime 1 and 2 were adjusted for enemy animations on an individual basis to ensure you have enough time to react to everything, and boons, hammers, and aspects were overall buffed moreso than nerfed.

bronze viper Jul 29, 2020, 8:12 PM

#

Bruiser, right.

#

I only started playing with heat at the end of Nighty Night, so I'm not as triggered from remembering how it was than I should be.

mossy zinc Jul 29, 2020, 8:14 PM

#

A room of Snakestones with Bruiser could get harder than the EM3 boss fight.

#

Generally, BP2 and Bruiser had a lot of very very difficult combos.

#

It's in a pretty good place now in comparison to how it was.

bronze viper Jul 29, 2020, 8:15 PM

#

I feel like I see it less often, or maybe it's just as uniquely noticeable as it was before

#

not*

mossy zinc Jul 29, 2020, 8:16 PM

#

Yeah, just the latter.

bronze viper Jul 29, 2020, 8:16 PM

#

Lol, like from my own anecdotal observation I'd say that Speeder and Slugger are the most common, but obviously that's just because they're the ones I actually pay attention for

#

Excluding the biome specific benefits

hallow stream Jul 29, 2020, 8:18 PM

#

just like to say we did a full all aspects rotating weapons 32 heat streak, of 23

#

that's all, carry on

proud jay Jul 29, 2020, 8:19 PM

#

gg boyo

mossy zinc Jul 29, 2020, 8:19 PM

#

@hallow stream now you have not do another run until the final aspect is out.

proud jay Jul 29, 2020, 8:19 PM

#

go for another full rotation

hallow stream Jul 29, 2020, 8:19 PM

#

thx @proud jay you were always there for me

mossy zinc Jul 29, 2020, 8:20 PM

#

But then you'll have to do another run to unlock the final aspect.

proud jay Jul 29, 2020, 8:20 PM

#

always will be

mossy zinc Jul 29, 2020, 8:20 PM

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Which will ruin your streak.

#

So basically, what I'm saying is, you screwed up. Gotta do it all over again to include Malphon #4. dusa

hallow stream Jul 29, 2020, 8:20 PM

#

hey I took 2 weapons to the surface I'd never used before

tidal flame Jul 29, 2020, 8:21 PM

#

rama and zag sword?

hallow stream Jul 29, 2020, 8:21 PM

#

guan yu and beowulf lol

mossy zinc Jul 29, 2020, 8:21 PM

#

Beowulf must have been hard.

#

I really hope they'll buff Beowulf. squirtnya

hallow stream Jul 29, 2020, 8:22 PM

#

so we have the "first time to the surface" animations for both of them

#

well I used pulverizing blow

mossy zinc Jul 29, 2020, 8:23 PM

#

I think they should like hmm . . . the shield should fly faster when you use Charged Flight.

#

That would be good.

#

And maybe just have Charged Flight as default.

#

And it should hit twice.

bronze viper Jul 29, 2020, 8:24 PM

#

Lol in all seriousness I hope they do buff Beowulf, but just redistribute some of it's good qualities to the actual main conceit of the weapon

mossy zinc Jul 29, 2020, 8:24 PM

#

@hallow stream congratulations! That's a good streak. dusa

hallow stream Jul 29, 2020, 8:24 PM

#

thx

proud jay Jul 29, 2020, 8:25 PM

#

so talos pull just feels terrible

mossy zinc Jul 29, 2020, 8:27 PM

#

@hallow stream is really good with Talos. He can surely give you some tips for how to make it work.

hallow stream Jul 29, 2020, 8:32 PM

#

Probably just learn how to dash cancel the uppercut

proud jay Jul 29, 2020, 8:32 PM

#

yeah i just realised that

mossy zinc Jul 29, 2020, 8:36 PM

#

I still want to do a high heat cast build with Talos at some point, but I never find the patience for it lol.

#

Focusing on cast is just so slow against bosses until you pick up a Duo Boon.

frail crane Jul 29, 2020, 10:55 PM

#

does a 40-heat run need to be recorded to get on the list?

proud jay Jul 29, 2020, 11:21 PM

#

yeah

frail crane Jul 29, 2020, 11:21 PM

#

aight

#

I've got a breaching cross seed for talos, any suggestions for a build out of that?

proud jay Jul 30, 2020, 12:28 AM

#

43 heat zag spear done

frail crane Jul 30, 2020, 1:14 AM

#

Nice

uncut wigeon Jul 30, 2020, 1:50 AM

#

Charged Flight with Beowulf is the truth

#

Also, any of you guys have a handy guide for scaling up heat?

#

I'm at 14 with Shield and the other weapons are closing in to 18 and eventually to that 32. Curious as to which is the best way to scale up difficulty.

proud jay Jul 30, 2020, 2:02 AM

#

kind of depends on where you struggle

#

tight deadline is sort of the obvious one you should start using if you aren't already

uncut wigeon Jul 30, 2020, 2:50 AM

#

Started on it. I like messing about so its kind of a killjoy

#

but finishing runs properly so far.

mossy zinc Jul 30, 2020, 3:29 AM

#

You don't need TD at 32. So if it's no fun, don't use it.

tidal flame Jul 30, 2020, 3:36 AM

#

you don't even need TD at 52 :3

trim sigil Jul 30, 2020, 4:23 AM

#

Even at 53

#

Speaking of scaling, I jumped 8-16-32-40 and that probably wasn't a perfect curve heh

bronze viper Jul 30, 2020, 4:34 AM

#

That's actually pretty close to the curve I used lol.

frail crane Jul 30, 2020, 4:35 AM

#

I think I was 1-5-8-12-16-40

#

(though I've only cleared 40 once >:3)

mossy zinc Jul 30, 2020, 4:39 AM

#

That's okay. Now you just beat 50 Heat once.

tidal flame Jul 30, 2020, 4:45 AM

#

1-5-32-????-42-give up

wraith imp Jul 30, 2020, 5:35 AM

#

On chaos shield, I went up by increments of 1 up to 20 (to max out rewards) and then 2-3 heat until I got up to 43 heat. (I don't have a way to record. I'm also going to purchase a new computer so I'm waiting on that.)

If anyone struggles on other weapons, don't feel bad. (I did for a long time.)

Until excalibur was released, I couldn't get past 24 heat on sword. (Now up to 40 heat.)

I'm straight up terrible at all the other weapons. (Haven't gotten past 12 heat on any other weapon.)

Some players are just all-around masters. That isn't me.

wraith imp Jul 30, 2020, 6:04 AM

#

Question: all the 50 heat runs are seeded, right?

I ask b/c: tonight, I attempted 7 50+ heat runs (just messing around) and not once did I get the boon I wanted at the start.

mossy zinc Jul 30, 2020, 6:10 AM

#

I don't know if @cedar spire's were seeded. Probably.

wraith imp Jul 30, 2020, 6:15 AM

#

I tried to see how far I could get on 53-55 heat and the furthest I made it was the final chamber in Tartarus in 3 of the 7 runs. In 2 of those 3 tries, I died to tight deadline because I simply couldn't do enough damage per attack/special.

So it was just odd to me that in 7 tries, I never got the boon I wanted (zeus special) for chaos shield.

But I suppose it's not entirely odd given there's 4 things to choose from at the start: attack, special, dash, cast. Strangely enough, lightning reflex showed up before zeus special.

mossy zinc Jul 30, 2020, 6:17 AM

#

You can just check the video. If he got an Epic special in chamber 1, it was almost definitely seeded.

wraith imp Jul 30, 2020, 6:18 AM

#

You're right. And now that you mention it (tier), not one of the starting boons was better than rare (in 2/7 iirc)

#

Yep. He started with epic thunder flourish

#

his opening run is incredible

#

epic tier thunder flourish, gets key, gets another zeus boon

#

uses key, rolls into...epic static discharge (aka jolted)

#

Awesome start.

hardy bobcat Jul 30, 2020, 11:16 AM

#

This is not the right channel for this but:
If you buy the fish bait item (idk the name) from the well of charon and then enter a chaos gate will I get a 100% chance to get a chaos fishing point?

mossy zinc Jul 30, 2020, 11:21 AM

#

Why do you ask here if you know it's not the right channel? thanthink

foggy ruin Jul 30, 2020, 12:05 PM

#

I personally went up by 1 heat until I maxed all the bounties. Bow was the exception; I jumped from 16 to 32 because I couldn't take all the people talking smack about my boy Rama haha

bronze viper Jul 30, 2020, 2:08 PM

#

I did the same for Rama, 1 through 20->32->41->49 (in process of trying to do it again for a recording lol). The weapon needs to be buffed but it triggers me how many people just default to "You can't fully charge the weapon. Trash"

cyan stag Jul 30, 2020, 2:10 PM

#

It's multihit properties more than make up for that, I'd say. I can't play it right for the life of me, but I see the potential.

bronze viper Jul 30, 2020, 2:12 PM

#

It's numbers most likely don't need to change, but the change I'd like to see the most is the growth rate of the range of the shot increased to be logarithmic, instead of linear. That way you get to max range/charge shot in the same amount of time but you get to almost max range very quickly. Actually I'd love to see this change for every bow.

Rama's charge time, begrudgingly, should probably also be tweaked down a smidge.

#

This matters so much for hammers like Twin Shot on Rama, which honestly feels less usable than Explosive Shot because of how long it takes to get to any meaningful range.

proud jay Jul 30, 2020, 3:01 PM

#

44 heat Hera done, i'm very much convinced crush shot is the best

uncut wigeon Jul 30, 2020, 3:04 PM

#

I cant make sense of Rama's slow draw.

#

Not sure what you'd do with it in FO2

proud jay Jul 30, 2020, 3:04 PM

#

rama feels awkward for me too

uncut wigeon Jul 30, 2020, 3:06 PM

#

Aspect of Zeus was strange but I kinda understood where it wanted tk be and made more sense as I played.

#

Rama just wants me to use a super fast attack to set up a slow one for a weird pay off.

#

May be that i have it at a low blood level, just felt strange.

mossy zinc Jul 30, 2020, 3:22 PM

#

For high heat, you definitely want to max out your aspect.

bronze viper Jul 30, 2020, 3:32 PM

#

I think it's mostly that Rama is inflexible. You can't just do whatever with it and it'll work. I think Dio/Zeus special is basically mandatory for most builds, unless you're going for Artemis attack/Aphro special

proud jay Jul 30, 2020, 3:35 PM

#

i think that's the case for a lot of weapons though

sharp cobalt Jul 30, 2020, 3:38 PM

#

At high heat, the viable builds do shrink.

#

That's just how things go in this sort of game.

proud jay Jul 30, 2020, 4:34 PM

#

i know this is starting to get spammy but 44 heat zag rail done

odd tartan Jul 30, 2020, 4:49 PM

#

@hardy bobcat yes, 100% guarantee to get Chaos fish that way

mossy zinc Jul 30, 2020, 6:33 PM

#

@bronze viper by the way, I'm thinking your motivation for "redoing" 49 will rise if you just go up to 50. dusa

bronze viper Jul 30, 2020, 6:33 PM

#

I tired ;_; Rama doesn't do that much damage. CP hurts so bad

proud jay Jul 30, 2020, 6:33 PM

#

AP2 is too painful for me to get to the 50s

bronze viper Jul 30, 2020, 6:35 PM

#

Even with great attack boons Elysium TD2 with CP1 and JS1 is so brutal. There's very little chance of getting through without some combo of chaos, mid shop, Patroclus, Soul Catcher boss, or fountain

proud jay Jul 30, 2020, 6:36 PM

#

imo they should tone down the amount of waves in elysium

#

TD2 is all about getting through elysium

bronze viper Jul 30, 2020, 6:36 PM

#

-1 room would also work

trim sigil Jul 30, 2020, 6:37 PM

#

5sack also exists tbf

daring hedge Jul 30, 2020, 6:37 PM

#

honestly they could move a chamber from elysium to asphodel and it would feel good

proud jay Jul 30, 2020, 6:37 PM

#

i feel like sack is less of an issue

trim sigil Jul 30, 2020, 6:37 PM

#

But is less noticeable issue because no one gets to styx in first place, yes

#

squirtnya

proud jay Jul 30, 2020, 6:38 PM

#

ever run out of time in asphodel? me neither

mossy zinc Jul 30, 2020, 6:38 PM

#

Asphodel is stressful, though.

#

I'm kind of happy it's so short.

#

So many projectiles.

bronze viper Jul 30, 2020, 6:39 PM

#

Lol, the bullet hell rooms with Spreader and Wavemakers/bomb dudes are such troll

proud jay Jul 30, 2020, 6:39 PM

#

athena is the answer to that, and pretty much everything else in this game

#

if only you could equip her keepsake twice

daring hedge Jul 30, 2020, 6:40 PM

#

attack/speed+seeker spreader rooms with JS and without deflect are just bouldy

proud jay Jul 30, 2020, 6:41 PM

#

im sort of slowly gravitating towards deflect in every run i do

daring hedge Jul 30, 2020, 6:41 PM

#

i've been trying to feel less reliant on it over time

bronze viper Jul 30, 2020, 6:41 PM

#

The slow projectiles duo is looking less trash each time I pick it up

trim sigil Jul 30, 2020, 6:41 PM

#

I ran out of time in asphodel once
Was because of Seeker spreaders room and Erebus

daring hedge Jul 30, 2020, 6:41 PM

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my 50 didn't feature athena in any way at all which i only thought about after the run was over

bronze viper Jul 30, 2020, 6:42 PM

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That's a feat in and of itself lol

proud jay Jul 30, 2020, 6:42 PM

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my latest run rocked athena attack, dash, holy shield and extra dd bouldy

trim sigil Jul 30, 2020, 6:42 PM

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Tartarus is probably the most balanced location for TD2, aside from getting unlucky with initial boons

daring hedge Jul 30, 2020, 6:43 PM

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that extra dd with SD is the swankiest thing

mossy zinc Jul 30, 2020, 6:43 PM

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I used Athena's Aid once on 52 before I sacrificed it, I think, and I don't know if Holy Shield ever actually did anything for the short time I had it lol.

bronze viper Jul 30, 2020, 6:43 PM

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It rarely does

trim sigil Jul 30, 2020, 6:43 PM

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Extra DD with SD is 200iq strats

proud jay Jul 30, 2020, 6:43 PM

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holy shield is not something im ever trying to get

daring hedge Jul 30, 2020, 6:43 PM

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lol

proud jay Jul 30, 2020, 6:44 PM

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but i guess it's not a bad defensive option

trim sigil Jul 30, 2020, 6:44 PM

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Holy shield is pretty neat against combo hits, but if you get combo hit in first place then 90% of the time run was screwed regardless

bronze viper Jul 30, 2020, 6:44 PM

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It's not literally nothing. It's nice against Mino spin-to win, or Hades' enraged spin

daring hedge Jul 30, 2020, 6:44 PM

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yeah, holy shield is what i pick when AP decides that i'll get nothing better

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and there are so many better things from athena

bronze viper Jul 30, 2020, 6:44 PM

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Or Flamewheels

trim sigil Jul 30, 2020, 6:45 PM

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Would almost always pick holy shield instead of brilliant riposte tbf

bronze viper Jul 30, 2020, 6:45 PM

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I love riposte

daring hedge Jul 30, 2020, 6:45 PM

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i actually really like brilliant riposte on any deflect-heavy builds

bronze viper Jul 30, 2020, 6:45 PM

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I'm never quite sure how good it is but I know how good it feels

proud jay Jul 30, 2020, 6:45 PM

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riposte is great if you lack damage

bronze viper Jul 30, 2020, 6:46 PM

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Hades does like a billion damage to himself from deflected skulls, even without riposte

daring hedge Jul 30, 2020, 6:46 PM

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lol

trim sigil Jul 30, 2020, 6:46 PM

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Riposte damage only matters on few select enemies, and for them it's usually overkill
That's my experience with that at least

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Hades skulls is probably the best application

daring hedge Jul 30, 2020, 6:46 PM

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that's fair. i do think hades skull deflects are a standout case that potentially singlehandedly makes it worth it

mossy zinc Jul 30, 2020, 6:46 PM

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Brilliant Riposte + Deadly Reversal is great.

trim sigil Jul 30, 2020, 6:46 PM

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Well, just like Sure Footing on vases ig

bronze viper Jul 30, 2020, 6:47 PM

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You can show poison dart satyrs what for, HAHA, take 9 damage or whatever from your darts

daring hedge Jul 30, 2020, 6:47 PM

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sure footing against HS feels like a drop in the bucket though

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i never take it really

trim sigil Jul 30, 2020, 6:47 PM

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Does it actually?

bronze viper Jul 30, 2020, 6:47 PM

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It's multiplicative

trim sigil Jul 30, 2020, 6:47 PM

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I thought it's multiplicative

bronze viper Jul 30, 2020, 6:47 PM

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It is

daring hedge Jul 30, 2020, 6:47 PM

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really? huh.

trim sigil Jul 30, 2020, 6:48 PM

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So like, 75% sure footing makes 500% trap damage into 125%

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Which is pretty much free 1 heat

bronze viper Jul 30, 2020, 6:48 PM

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90% sure footing makes HS dad urns do 15 damage, which is amaaaazing

daring hedge Jul 30, 2020, 6:48 PM

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i guess that's better. i'd still rather take something offensively oriented or a free DD from athena

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but that

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is much better than i thought

mossy zinc Jul 30, 2020, 6:48 PM

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Brilliant Riposte would be top tier if it did nothing at all just for the fact that it's a path to Divine Protection.

bronze viper Jul 30, 2020, 6:49 PM

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I mean, don't get me wrong, Sure Footing is still basically an instasell to Customs, but it's not bad lol

proud jay Jul 30, 2020, 6:49 PM

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i never seem to get divine protection ever

trim sigil Jul 30, 2020, 6:49 PM

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Time to wait for high heat run with divine protection

proud jay Jul 30, 2020, 6:49 PM

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and I guess it's because athena's tier1 boons are better than tier2

trim sigil Jul 30, 2020, 6:50 PM

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Mmm. Exposed is quite worth T2 boon and makes athena dash a monster

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Blinding Flash ig

mossy zinc Jul 30, 2020, 6:50 PM

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Sure Footing sucks in Elysium.

daring hedge Jul 30, 2020, 6:50 PM

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exposed is definitely a pretty good T2, especially if your heat loadout allows for priv status and you're running that

mossy zinc Jul 30, 2020, 6:50 PM

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It does more harm than good there.

trim sigil Jul 30, 2020, 6:51 PM

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Well, same for asphodel, kinda?

mossy zinc Jul 30, 2020, 6:51 PM

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I don't want to need 500 traps to revive lol.

bronze viper Jul 30, 2020, 6:51 PM

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If you're trying to clear your SD yeah lol

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I've run into that before trying to kill myself for Athena boon

proud jay Jul 30, 2020, 6:51 PM

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dodge is another awkward mechanic for that

trim sigil Jul 30, 2020, 6:51 PM

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Don't mention dodge

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it's aeugh

daring hedge Jul 30, 2020, 6:51 PM

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trying to get killed by the elysium phoenix egg bomb and dodging it 😔

bronze viper Jul 30, 2020, 6:52 PM

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Can't really mess around too long in Elysium haha

daring hedge Jul 30, 2020, 6:52 PM

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thanks hermes

trim sigil Jul 30, 2020, 6:52 PM

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When having either of those I just try to get killed by last soldier instead

mossy zinc Jul 30, 2020, 6:52 PM

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He's just trying to speed things up for you.

bronze viper Jul 30, 2020, 6:52 PM

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I feel like dodge doesn't do anything, until that common Hermes boon I couldn't sell eats an Urn explosion, then I guess it's fine or whatever.

proud jay Jul 30, 2020, 6:53 PM

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otherwise I've grown to love dodge

daring hedge Jul 30, 2020, 6:53 PM

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literally what happened to me in a recent run

trim sigil Jul 30, 2020, 6:53 PM

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You just gotta believe in power of swag rng

daring hedge Jul 30, 2020, 6:53 PM

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15% dodge, never procced except when i killed the last foe too quickly and needed to refresh with SD

bronze viper Jul 30, 2020, 6:53 PM

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Lol, yeah, I'm mostly joking. Dodge is unreliable but still a multplicative health bonus

proud jay Jul 30, 2020, 6:53 PM

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some bosses do like 150 dmg hits

mossy zinc Jul 30, 2020, 6:53 PM

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Dodge is just another Damage Reduction, effectively.

trim sigil Jul 30, 2020, 6:54 PM

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Dodging attacks also negates their negative effects like boiling blood so it's even more potential at times

bronze viper Jul 30, 2020, 6:54 PM

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The one thing Acorn can't do

proud jay Jul 30, 2020, 6:54 PM

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also I feel like the other ~10% damage reduction options aren't helpful enough

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with small health pools

trim sigil Jul 30, 2020, 6:55 PM

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Well, they indeed aren't at times. Getting killed in 5.5 hits or 6 hits is still 6 hits

proud jay Jul 30, 2020, 6:55 PM

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and dodge even starts at 15%

bronze viper Jul 30, 2020, 6:55 PM

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Especially since they're all multiplicative. They make themselves even worse. Bronze Skin is rtruly awful

trim sigil Jul 30, 2020, 6:56 PM

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They don't really make each other worse
They just don't stack even more effectively either

daring hedge Jul 30, 2020, 6:56 PM

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different league honestly should have some faint ring around Zag to indicate how "near" an enemy must be for the reduction to work

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it's pretty nebulous

mossy zinc Jul 30, 2020, 6:56 PM

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Damage Reduction boons amount to roughly a Centaur Heart once you have about 250 HP.

bronze viper Jul 30, 2020, 6:57 PM

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At least the 10% ones

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which is all of them except the Athena ones

mossy zinc Jul 30, 2020, 6:57 PM

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Well, the first one, anyway.

trim sigil Jul 30, 2020, 6:57 PM

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Well, one benefit of damage reduction over plain health is that you need less healing to recover

proud jay Jul 30, 2020, 6:57 PM

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at least weak is more respectable

trim sigil Jul 30, 2020, 6:57 PM

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But LC4 will make that irrelevant for most part

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And ye weak is p nuts

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You can't really apply it to every damage source tho, sad

mossy zinc Jul 30, 2020, 6:58 PM

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Healing items are based on your max HP.

bronze viper Jul 30, 2020, 6:58 PM

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Damage reduction is at its best when it costs nothing, like Aphro attack/special

trim sigil Jul 30, 2020, 6:58 PM

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Cthonic/Dark Regen aren't

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Neither are lifesteal on weps

mossy zinc Jul 30, 2020, 6:58 PM

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What's that? squirtooh

daring hedge Jul 30, 2020, 6:59 PM

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aren't the shady companion health pickups a static health value as well, not based on your max at all?

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can be affected by nourishing soul of course, but yeah

trim sigil Jul 30, 2020, 6:59 PM

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They are iirc, but can't tell since only ever used dusa

bronze viper Jul 30, 2020, 6:59 PM

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They are flat, yes

proud jay Jul 30, 2020, 7:00 PM

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They are iirc, but can't tell since only ever used dusa
@trim sigil ah, another man of culture

bronze viper Jul 30, 2020, 7:00 PM

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I used Dusa for the first time today, she's much better than the description would have you think.

proud jay Jul 30, 2020, 7:00 PM

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I started using dusa to get through tough elysium rooms

bronze viper Jul 30, 2020, 7:00 PM

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It's not immediately obvious that she attacks 384239482 times a second

daring hedge Jul 30, 2020, 7:00 PM

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i just haven't used shady in a while anyway because they're more worthless with LC4 SD and CF2

mossy zinc Jul 30, 2020, 7:01 PM

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Wow. I can't believe you're using her. That's so mean.

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🔫 dusa

proud jay Jul 30, 2020, 7:01 PM

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she's happy to help

trim sigil Jul 30, 2020, 7:01 PM

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Well, not man of culture, just that I don't have ambrosia to try others
She definitely grew in my eyes over time though as persistent damage source and mob stun dusaHeart

bronze viper Jul 30, 2020, 7:01 PM

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Does the petrify do anything against bosses?

mossy zinc Jul 30, 2020, 7:02 PM

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No.

proud jay Jul 30, 2020, 7:02 PM

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just damage

daring hedge Jul 30, 2020, 7:02 PM

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nope

tardy path Jul 30, 2020, 7:02 PM

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Sadly no

bronze viper Jul 30, 2020, 7:02 PM

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Womp womp. She still does damage through phase transitions though, which is excellent

trim sigil Jul 30, 2020, 7:02 PM

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Just wish her projectiles were as persistent as her, not bumping into walls and running out of time so quickly

Also petrify doesn't even work on armored foes

proud jay Jul 30, 2020, 7:02 PM

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Womp womp. She still does damage through phase transitions though, which is excellent
@bronze viper wait what?

daring hedge Jul 30, 2020, 7:02 PM

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i wait what-ed at the same thing

mossy zinc Jul 30, 2020, 7:02 PM

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Probably crushes their egos.

bronze viper Jul 30, 2020, 7:02 PM

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She lasts forever, so she'll still be there after the transition

trim sigil Jul 30, 2020, 7:03 PM

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I only remember asterius getting bonus damage when the miniboss encounter ends

tardy path Jul 30, 2020, 7:03 PM

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No way. Does it?

daring hedge Jul 30, 2020, 7:03 PM

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ah, that wording was ambiguous

bronze viper Jul 30, 2020, 7:03 PM

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Did not mean that she literally pierces transition shield

daring hedge Jul 30, 2020, 7:03 PM

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we thought you meant could damage through the invuln shield

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lol

tardy path Jul 30, 2020, 7:03 PM

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Lmao same

trim sigil Jul 30, 2020, 7:03 PM

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Basically you won't hit transition damage cap like with thanatos, yeah
That was worded rather weirdly

tardy path Jul 30, 2020, 7:04 PM

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Very weirdly

bronze viper Jul 30, 2020, 7:04 PM

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Sorry for the dreamcrush everyone ❤️ dusa

trim sigil Jul 30, 2020, 7:04 PM

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That'd imply we didn't have dreams crushed beforehand squirtnya

mossy zinc Jul 30, 2020, 7:04 PM

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I want to see somebody kill Asterius in that short window where he can take damage after the miniboss fight.

proud jay Jul 30, 2020, 7:04 PM

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it's been done

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with dio dot, chill dot and demeter legendary

mossy zinc Jul 30, 2020, 7:05 PM

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Well, I didn't see it.

proud jay Jul 30, 2020, 7:06 PM

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are links allowed here? found it

tardy path Jul 30, 2020, 7:06 PM

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Yes they are

proud jay Jul 30, 2020, 7:06 PM

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https://www.reddit.com/r/HadesTheGame/comments/exzme8/i_managed_to_kill_asterius_mid_cutscene_due_to/

r/HadesTheGame - I managed to kill Asterius mid cutscene due to dot...

528 votes and 35 comments so far on Reddit

daring hedge Jul 30, 2020, 7:06 PM

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yeah, link away if relevant

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zaglol

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demeter said "you're not going anywhere sir"

tardy path Jul 30, 2020, 7:06 PM

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LOL

proud jay Jul 30, 2020, 7:06 PM

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I love the fact that the animation actually goes off

tardy path Jul 30, 2020, 7:07 PM

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zaglol

bronze viper Jul 30, 2020, 7:07 PM

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LOL

daring hedge Jul 30, 2020, 7:09 PM

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this is why asterius learned how to speedwalk out of there

mossy zinc Jul 30, 2020, 7:12 PM

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Chilling.

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Cool.

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Very ice.

bronze viper Jul 30, 2020, 7:14 PM

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I forgot how sick the Winter's Harvest animation looked

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been many moons since i've used it

mossy zinc Jul 30, 2020, 7:14 PM

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I never had the time to actually pay attention to it lol.

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And usually there are too many effects on screen.

tidal flame Jul 30, 2020, 7:45 PM

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A visual diarrhea as I call it

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Still better than most games tbh

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looking at you Risk of Rain 2 and Isaac

trim sigil Jul 30, 2020, 7:53 PM

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Both do revolve around building your character in a walking visual diarrhea tbf

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At the start of runs you can observe everything clearly

daring hedge Jul 30, 2020, 8:01 PM

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yeah, i do think the visual insanity from long RoR runs is pretty much intentional; it's part of the charm ever since the first

proud jay Jul 30, 2020, 8:43 PM

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i'm on a mission to raise the bar for less used aspects

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44 hera, 44 zag rail, 43 demeter, 43 eris all done today

tidal flame Jul 30, 2020, 8:52 PM

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a man on a mission

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good luck

deft sable Jul 30, 2020, 10:31 PM

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What's the highest heat that's been cleared by now? I'm wondering if clearing with max everything is even possible with the time limit