Hestia feels so smooth. I rebound my reload key and did 32 in maybe 3 runs
#h1-high-heat-strategies
zinc scarab
daring hedge
AP2 is just frustrating
mossy zinc
It's not necessary, but since the meta is using seeds, and it speeds things up, I might as well do that.
tidal flame
One month back it seems like everyone and their mothers did 32
trim sigil
I do understand the intent behind AP being that you would have to use suboptimal builds as the game goes on, but the trouble is, it doesn't prevent ideal builds from entirely happening, only delays the process by ages
daring hedge
it's fine and fun with low heat, sometimes
daring hedge
but at high AP2 is just there to constantly deny you build viability
tidal flame
it's the patient test
mossy zinc
@tidal flame there's still only 12 people on the leaderboard who did 40+. Manthro would make 13 if he'd recorded his run.
zinc scarab
AP2 is really just: "Hope you have good luck or enough patience to role into most of the things you'd want to pick up anyway
trim sigil
Pretty much
tidal flame
There has been a lot of off record 40+ build
trim sigil
Either free heat or restart
tidal flame
ik radish (?) and some other cleared 42
mossy zinc
Even then, it's not a lot of people.
daring hedge
even so, if you were to quadruple that 12 for potential 40+ clears around now, it's very far from everyone and their mother in the face of tens of thousands of players
lol
trim sigil
Is your joke a lernie?
daring hedge
i'm sorry, have a bouldy 
mossy zinc
40 with Beowulf and Charged Flight is easy.
daring hedge
i still haven't tried charged flight...
daring hedge
and yet i keep hearing about how stupidly strong it is
wow! krasher put fox in the hall of fame
you did it and very convincingly too!
zinc scarab
Yeah sure but he used the aspect of chaos, does it really count?
That obviously makes any run a guaranteed win
tidal flame
k I'll do it boonless
zinc scarab
kk that seems fair
daring hedge
it'll only take a couple mins
tidal flame
brb need to install paint do the run
zinc scarab
boonless 57 hera bow when
daring hedge
that one hurt to read
zinc scarab
really had to think of an aspect on the weaker side of power
mossy zinc
Chaos Aspect is kind of overrated.
trim sigil
Zag blade tbh
zinc scarab
Sword in general has a good enough moveset / hammer collection to do alright
tidal flame
i'd rather have ungraded Zag Sword than upraded one
mossy zinc
You need both Attack and Special boons to make Chaos Aspect work, and you need to use a rotation that can actually leave you vulnerable with the Bull Rush.
zinc scarab
bull rush -> dash backwards through enemy -> special
mossy zinc
Meanwhile all that e.g. Guan Yu needs is a Special boon, and you can easily kill things from range.
zinc scarab
that seems far too kind
tidal flame
@daring hedge sweep% when?
zinc scarab
why not achilles spear sweep only
trim sigil
Because then hera dashstrike only
mossy zinc
I'll be doing Varatha on 41 next, so we'll see.
Gonna be either Guan Yu or Achilles, I think.
zinc scarab
GY+HL5 feels like HL10
mossy zinc
I'm gonna be trying Guan Yu first.
zinc scarab
all weapons %
tidal flame
seems to be a good competitive one
trim sigil
Fresh file tbh
zinc scarab
Nyaa, Athena wants a word with you
trim sigil
It kinda is, but also makes sense to boast on newbs
tidal flame
to show case the game and mechanics
zinc scarab
from a fresh file, how fast you can win with all weapons
tidal flame
blind 32 heat
trim sigil
"hey look at that lad finish the game in 1 run when it will take you 20"
zinc scarab
57 heat %
tidal flame
problem with freshfile is that all you see is dash strike spam start to finish
anyway, I hope the community grows big enough so GDQ appearance can be a thing
trim sigil
bouldy% 
zinc scarab
Right now all I want is Hades stuff for steam profiles
tidal flame
do people collect Steam cards?
zinc scarab
I meant more like the stuff that's in the new Steam Points store
Like profile backgrounds, avatars, etc.
Imagine the god portraits along the sides of your steam profile background. They'd fit perfectly
Nyaa can pretend to love Aphrodite more than Athena, Fox can show their love Artemis, Tail can show their... appreciation of Hades Spear
tidal flame
well I have Red to grace my background so...
mossy zinc
I've cleared more 41 heat runs starting with the Eternal Rose than starting with the Owl Pendant. I don't know you mean. 
tidal flame
Crutch intensifies
mossy zinc
I just told you the stats that matter.
zinc scarab
Ah of course
mossy zinc
@autumn sable the date for my clears is July 13, actually. Victory screens are here.
https://discordapp.com/channels/456889434672201729/725021639506526249/732135933041967135
https://discordapp.com/channels/456889434672201729/725021639506526249/732250092882362418
Neat that you're adding the dates now, though.
autumn sable
delay in updating, work's been busy
mossy zinc
Yeah, no problem at all. Thanks for keeping up with all the runs!
autumn sable
Dates seemed like a good idea with how many more runs are being recorded lately.
finite valve
oof, running only one dash but keeping 2 choices
you could easily push that to 44 with a bit of boon luck
mossy zinc
@finite valve hmm?
I feel I'm lacking context lol. Not sure what you're talking about.
finite valve
actually I read wrong lol
you only had -3 on mirror, not -9
you could push it to 44-46 prolly
+40% overtime and 3 extreme measure is something I try to avoid, elyseum is too scary at +40% 😦
mossy zinc
Yeah, but I want to get all weapons to 41 for now.
mossy zinc
You can find it on his Twitch, it's in the pinned spreadsheet by Krashercorr, too.
Our semi-official leaderboard.
mossy zinc
Do you have a video of your run? He only adds 40+ clears or other notable achievements that have a video.
mossy zinc
Then he probably just didn't get around to it or didn't see it.
finite valve
@autumn sable could you put me in that cute spreadsheet of yours please? 😛
mossy zinc
That might be the first 40+ run that had 0 points in TD, by the way. Well, I haven't watched all of them. Krashercorr would probably know.
finite valve
Guan Yu is a bit weak in terms of damage output
but it's safe so I decided to experiment w/ no TD
I could prolly have done it with 9 minutes tho
mossy zinc
Ah you didn't have a Charged Skewer seed.
finite valve
but the run that got killed by that 5 doors in Styx kinda killed me
I used quick spin
mossy zinc
Attack-focused build? Interesting
finite valve
the heal on spin makes it very safe
athena on attack, reflect and spin all day
doesn't pass the 7 minutes deadline in Elysium at my current level of skill tho
I'm playing too safe
Imma work on a shield in the 44-46 range now
mossy zinc
I have a Charged Skewer seed that I just didn't get around to doing yet. We'll see how that one goes.
finite valve
My charged special seed is ready for shield :p
mossy zinc
Not passing TD2 in Elysium has nothing to do with your skill, necessarily.
finite valve
but I'm not sure if I can do it with +40% overtime and EM 3
mossy zinc
The pacts I'm currently running for 41 don't include JS, CP, and DC at all.
finite valve
it's kinda crazy I did a sub 30 minutes with +60% summons
mossy zinc
Ah. You had no FO at all I'm seeing. Interesting.
finite valve
yeah I could probably push it a bit
+30% life + +40% overtime seems doable with enough patience
didn't use any life on Hades
my only death is in Styx when I got poisoned by the elite mob that throws a dart at you, he melted my hp bar
mossy zinc
I think my Nighty Night Malphon WR (at the time) had JS3, CP2, and DC2 and I beat TD2 with that lol. That's when Bruiser gave a lot more armor to elites, too.
finite valve
I tried switching on gamepad for shield
mossy zinc
I got a pretty lucky run that time.
finite valve
but I can't get used to the control 😂
worst thing is, I'm usually a gamepad user lol
mossy zinc
Switching controls is not worth it.
Maybe somewhere down the line, but it will take a long time even just to get to your current skill with the controls you've been using.
Meanwhile you'd be improving your control over Zagreus with your current controls.
IMO it's only worth it for health reasons, in which case it's absolutely worth it.
Don't want to injure yourself just for a video game. 
finite valve
welp, I can see the benefit of switching to gamepad
auto aim makes your life easier
gonna stay on kbm for now
alright, time to work on that run, cya :p
trim sigil
A bit hard to check so asking there: does LC affect Cursed Blade? I was running LC2 and it was healing 2 per hit instead of 1 anyway
mossy zinc
No, Cursed Blade isn't affected. Guan Yu isn't affected, either.
honest kernel
that is weird?
trim sigil
Weird indeed, but interesting
mossy zinc
It's intentional.
trim sigil
Not that it's terribly viable either because of low max hp, so yeah, I can see that
honest kernel
is there anyway we could have known that from the wording?
trim sigil
Some (including me) certainly could extract a lot of value from that, but it's high risk of getting comboed
So-so
finite valve
Quick Recovery is also not affected.
@mossy zinc I can concur and it makes it a huge boon
had a +50% health recovery on dash on the famous 5 doors styx run
it was crazy
honest kernel
5 doors?
finite valve
yep
40 heat run killed by 5 doors sack
even 9 minutes is not enough here
also had another fun thing happened to me during a trial room: my dio attack got replaced by aphro attack that immediately got replaced by dio attack again
😂
trim sigil
Also nice god checkers
finite valve
well I had like 1 minute left for Hades
or something like that
I had a really good build
Dio attack, artemis arrow on hit, which synergizes like crazy with the spin of guan yu
and some other stuff that made me deal a lot of damage, but that still wasn't enough
and I got all that with -2 choices so I was very salty
mossy zinc
Yeah, 1 minute left at the start of Hades will kill you just through the switch from phase 1 to phase 2 alone lol.
trim sigil
4sack did leave me with 1.5 minutes for hades. Ended up dying to timer at 20% p2, maybe would have survived if hades didn't stab me so much
finite valve
I don't get it, how does Haelian take so few damage on Hades with 100% hard labor?
I take way more than this, what's the boon that mitigates the damage he takes?
Or maybe it's just that I'm so used to running low on HP with Guan Yu that it feels like he takes less damage :p
trim sigil
Maybe he had some aphro/dio boons for damage reduction?
finite valve
I don't have very good knowledge about the boons so that's what I'd like to know :p
mossy zinc
He just didn't get hit a lot, and he didn't get hit by any skulls for Boiling Blood.
surreal geode
I know that the guys who go after extreme high heat will read this. Just wanted to say that I'm actually happy you realized you can surpass your limits.
The records I set here or in other games are mostly in hope that people get inspired and break through their limits
So gg for the new feats, and maybe when I got time I'll raise the bar again. 🙂
mossy zinc
I like that mentality. I think a lot of us doing high heat share that. I'm happy that so many more people lately are willing to give 40+ a try.
narrow mauve
I should try it, somepoint
I need to switch mentalities though, right now i'm trying to go fast, which uh, often involves facetanking hades til he dies
trim sigil
Id probably jump from 32 to 40 just like I did from 16 to 32, for giggles
With anime sword ofc
honest kernel
weeb stick
trim sigil
Hey, as long as it works
finite valve
46 heat shield run killed by a 3 doors at Styx 😢
that was my first try past asphodeus and I breathed through Elysium
pretty pissed off my athena special got erased by dio
: /
trim sigil
Theory: anything but 2door feels bad because otherwise can't bring styx dark from pattie into hades fight
trim sigil
Tbh even mathematically styx dark with SD needs a nerf. Almost no reason to take hydralite gold over it
But shh
mossy zinc
I run LC4 when I use SD lol.
I've zero need for healing items with SD.
And the times I do, it's mid-fight, so it doesn't matter.
trim sigil
Well, even comparing regular to pattie items, hydralite goes from 10% to 30% while styx goes from 10% to 50%
LC4 is indeed a major reason there too
in parallel universe, lc affects revivals too so on lc4 you just die
honest kernel
LOL
mossy zinc
Nah, SGG is great in all parallel universes and would never do that. That's slander. Take it back. 🔫
HydraLite Gold is often a great choice when using DDs.
Which is a better choice for a lot of people because they can't make it through the boss fights reliably with just SD.
trim sigil
Yeah, in comparison with styx DD hydralite is solid choice. One gives you generally less (if you spent less than 3 dd) but permanent benefit, while hydralite helps to recover from elysium and prepare for heroes bossfight
Styx with SD is so neat though that while I tend to get wrecked on bosses with just SD as mentioned, styx more than doubles the health pool when reaching those with SD
(granted SD is utilized constantly and you sit at 30% hp)
narrow mauve
Also, what heat is considered high heat ? Roughly
i'm trying heat 30s and getting rekt, and am also told that 40 is a way different beast, and it ramps up exponentially
trim sigil
Well, there are like 15 recorded players to take on 40 heat
So it'd be more of extreme than high
I guess 16 is rather decent way to separate a border for high heat, mmm
narrow mauve
I'll keep trying to get a 30 run then
tidal flame
Haelian 51 Heat run with a casual 5 minute Hades fight
You know
Just high heat stuff
honest kernel
32 is usually a good bar for people because its an ingame achievement
and 20 is where you stop getting bounties
mossy zinc
We've had people come here asking for help with 8 heat. Which is really not what I would consider high heat personally.
I think if you're regularly coming here asking for 10 heat tips and it somehow interrupts conversation regularly, mods will probably kindly redirect you to other channels.
But otherwise, if you're interested in high heat strats, then this is the right channel for that.
mossy zinc
It's not in any real order just yet, but I've compiled all the strats for the Hades fight that I've shared here in the server in one document now. https://docs.google.com/document/d/137Vqe-8fvStMJ_HMlBKWwq3SVdoOED0lOpBBSmgGwtQ/edit?usp=sharing
hardy bobcat
wow nice
cedar spire
@tidal flame Got a 2 sack and had 9:00 deadline, still only finished styx with 17 seconds left... Close shave indeed
hardy bobcat
any builds that will make my life easier while trying to beat 32 heat?
tidal flame
Yeah you also got the short straw with double Butterfly Balls eating your acorn
Btu good run though
mossy zinc
No, the butterflies were innocent.
It was him rudely colliding with the butterflies eating the Acorn.
cedar spire
Hungry butterflies devouring my tasty acorn
mossy zinc
@cedar spire if you could take a look at the (very unorganized) document when you get the chance, and let me know if I missed any general tech/strategy for the fight that you think helps a lot or is important, that would be cool. Just wanna make a resource to point people to that struggle with the fight with tried-and-true strategies and tactics.
narrow mauve
Good stuff for the lesser calls, i didn't know that. I don't know how optimal it is, but when he does omni beams, if you have ares or poseidon greater call, that's your opportunity to pretty much end the fight and skip half of phase 2.
Therefore it might warrant a greater call if you're confident in your regular dash iframes or athena dash
mossy zinc
It's not enough damage to actually do 50% of his HP unless you have a lot of other buffs running.
narrow mauve
Fair enough
mossy zinc
A Greater Call with Epic Poseidon's Aid Lv.1 will do 3500 damage in 10 hits. That's the highest single-target damage you can get out of a Greater Call—disregarding t2 buffs etc.
50% of his HP is 8500.
Well, I guess you could get very lucky 10x crits with an Epic Artemis' Aid for 3600 damage.
But the average damage of her Epic Greater Call is 2040.
narrow mauve
Duly noted
mossy zinc
@cedar spire @surreal geode I'm 1st. Take that. https://imgur.com/a/GkgO82p
I'm, like, officially the #1 Hades player.
(We will disregard that this is 41 Heat and the highest heat category on speedrun.com isn't sorting by heat yet. )
tidal flame
Enjoy it while it lasts
Imagine clearing 51 heat and stay at the bottom of the chart xD
Poor Haelian
mossy zinc
You mean "Congratulations. Wow. You're so amazing. Please, can I have your autograph? You're the greatest."
surreal geode
You know, back in the day when I used to monogame, I sometimes did two WR runs back to back, as a backup wr meme
Just impossible for me nowadays
patent umbra
Congratulations! Wow, you're so amazing. Can I have your autograph, please? You're the best.
mossy zinc
@patent umbra https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/630312677855461377/733006203768274984/autograph_1.png
frail crane
Hold
The
Phone
Nyaa?!
When did you learn what a shield is?!
This is clearly a faked run
frail crane
I'm shook. Shield =/= fists
mossy zinc
Also my first Beowulf clear ever. But still top 2.
Somebody asked me for Beowulf tips earlier. I was like I only know Charged Flight is OP, please don't ask me stuff. xD
frail crane
Lmao
mossy zinc
"What cast do you usually use with Beowulf?"
finite valve
you wrote invincible instead of invisible in your guide
frail crane
I still haven't played it more than once
trim sigil
imagine using casts on beo 
mossy zinc
I was like: "What cast? I never pressed cast in my 1 clear with it. All I did was press Special." xD
frail crane
Lmao
finite valve
I kinda disagree with your take on greater call
greater Athena call is not something I'd pass on
same goes for Artemis'greater call that can do a massive amount of damage
trim sigil
I'd imagine main trouble with greater calls is that they bump into boss invincibility phases a lot
finite valve
time them
mossy zinc
Lady Artemis' Greater Call kinda sucks unless you happen to run a crit build anyway.
finite valve
I often use one call if I see my greater call can go to waste
trim sigil
Personally I prefer greater still but eeh, there are good sides to both of them
frail crane
I gotta agree on that, Nyaa
finite valve
then when he pops his invicibility I use my greater call when he comes out of it
frail crane
I used to take hers almost every run, but I've realized that other ones just generally out-perform
trim sigil
And ye artemis call is pretty weak by itself unless you have gods rng on crits
Like, aphro's greater call does more dmg 
(altho not split between foes like artemis)
finite valve
anyway, I'd use greater call over normal call if I had fast call generation
trim sigil
Smoldering Air 
finite valve
the very good thing about greater call is the bell indicating the end of it
you can pop it and hack away and know when you have to retreat
mossy zinc
Yeah, it's a good point in any case I should clarify more. I use Greater Calls, too, in the fight. But at the time when I was giving tips to somebody here, I just didn't go too much into that.
Right now it's basically just a collection of some stuff I wrote here when giving people tips on the fight.
finite valve
👍
and like I say, you wrote invincibility instead of invisibility in the beginning :p
finite valve
I knew you'd say that 😂
trim sigil
Technically, invincibility is also co--- yeah exactly
lmao
(there's one detail about that tho: if casts dislodge from hades, you can figure out where he is at given time)
and no idea if exit wounds will damage him in that case
frail crane
You can also watch his footprints, or use cast aimboxes
I might be misremembering about the aimboxes
trim sigil
Snow changes is indeed the most common way to look at his movement, ye
tidal flame
You named it autograph_1 implying there will be autograph_2, 3. Getting ready for stardom I see.
mossy zinc
Yes.
shut siren
Gonna be honest, the one time I have seriously taken Athena call and found it valuable is when I was forced by Approval Process to run Hazard Bomb with Eris Rail.
And in that case, it was pretty good. I'd generally avoid it otherwise though, the invulnerability imo isn't as valuable as "a crazy increase in damage comparable to a summon"
I'm of the personal opinion the best calls are Zeus and Aphrodite, (Zeus does the most damage from what I can tell, though Poseidon with Rip Current might be better) and Aphrodite is a boss executor.
untold rune
Congrats Neltharak! I just did my first 32 clear too.
Such a relief lol
Probably did 40+ attempts for it D:
what weapon did you clear it with, Neltharak?
narrow mauve
Chaos shield !
(I did 4 attempts for it, got a very lucky zeus run on my first try with the shield)
Got zeus special, the jolt thingie, then immediately demeter's rare crop. Then i got the chance for double and larger area. Extremely lucky run
mossy zinc
Congratulations to both of you. 🥳 🎉
narrow mauve
Thanks !
keen glacier
i couldnt make it yesterday with chaos shield on 28 :/ i died while hades called his "victory" line and freaking KNEELED next to me 😄
guess tight deadline is a lil longer than the die animation -.-
narrow mauve
Tight deadline kills you instantly ?
untold rune
Nice! I did it with Rail with Lucifer asepct and dionysus attack.
keen glacier
like EVERYthing ...
keen glacier
i dont get why they dont get any "anti rng" on act 4 and TD2
keen glacier
like 3,5minutes base time + 1 minute per cleared room .... (it are max 5?)
guess 8 for a full clear would be fine but 7 is really brutal
keen glacier
in act 3 you can have bad luck to (not getting chaos gates and so on) but you can better work around it
in a4 its pure rng
narrow mauve
The one thing i don't really get is why TD is per level instead of per run. Not complaining, just a question
honest kernel
I mean its not that easy but act 1 and 2 are just really fast clears
narrow mauve
I suppose, yeah. But you could have a shorter deadline for it
narrow mauve
Whiiiiiich sends back to square 1, never mind. I sort of get it
keen glacier
act 3 is long af if you dont get shops or chaos gates
if you get 2 shops + 1 gate you are fine 😉
honest kernel
I mean act3 is always long just bc of enemies and the boss
even if you get perfect rng through elysium
keen glacier
at least they fixed thani ... guess we all hated him 😄
untold rune
I ended up just not using TD for my 32 heat run.
honest kernel
thanos nevr ate up time...right?
untold rune
Made it harder maybe, but losing on time made me mad 😄
honest kernel
at least not in nighty night
keen glacier
in old times thani was "on time"
mossy zinc
You don't need to pick TD2 for 32 or below. You don't even need to pick it for 40+ or even 50+. Haelian did 51 WR with only TD1.
honest kernel
okay
keen glacier
so thani in a3 = dead
honest kernel
yeah I generally dont for gor TD its preference
keen glacier
maybe i should switch to td1 thats basicly free heath
mossy zinc
Also, picking any of JS, CP, or DC with TD2 is just essentially rolling the dice on getting enough DPS for it by Elysium or not—and Styx will still come after that.
I have TD2 for 41 Heat, but I don't have any point in those 3 pacts.
honest kernel
JS goes haywire in elysium and I can't figure out why
it just always seems that much more than in the other acts
mossy zinc
Because e.g. Strongbows have a relatively low difficulty score, so the game already spawns a lot of them, and it also basically spawns 2 enemies to kill for every 1 extra enemy.
honest kernel
I see, I don't know how spawns add up
mossy zinc
Because every Exalted is really 2 kills.
honest kernel
yeah
mossy zinc
And if any of them respawn, which more easily happens when there are a lot of them, it's even more . . .
mossy zinc
Yeah, the waves are bigger the "deeper" you go in the game.
Difficulty goes up with every chamber.
honest kernel
and then styx does its own thing
mossy zinc
+60% of an army adds a lot more than +60% of 2 enemies.
trim sigil
Wow, the step between 32 and 40 is monstrous
Can't even get out of asphodel anymore 
Now that's the difficulty i deserve
And of course AP1 keeps locking epic attack boons
misty bough
is it better to go death defiance or stubborn defiance for 32+ runs
honest charm
stubborn defiance is great if you have low health regen
misty bough
can you go into more detail?
trim sigil
Well, basically, if you have little to no regen, you'd have limited health for the whole run (whatever you get as max health + 3 dd, maybe more if replenishing them)
SD however is infinite and can expand the health spent in rooms and alike for a long while, as long as you stay alive
hollow lynx
go for all the hearts you can, then get patty's touch of styx and heal for 300 hp every room
fallow stream
SD makes rooms easier, but bosses tougher.
DD does the opposite
To simplify it
Patroclus changes that dynamic significantly though.
If you manage to carry Touch of Styx dark to Hades, you effectively have 2 DD wrapped in every SD revive, so if you also play the system to get an additional revive from Athena, SD is straight superior to DD for end game
zinc scarab
Kind of, it really depends how much health you have, and what you get hit by
If you get hit by 2 hades pots, you're a fool obviously, but you also probably lost a full life regardless of DD or SD.
fallow stream
I personally find that DD puts too much pressure on perfect play in rooms.
I prefer honing my skills for boss fights being more flawless, and going balls out in rooms so I can clear TD2 faster without worrying about being hit as much
zinc scarab
I personally always prefer SD, it feels a lot better with LC3-4
Plus it forces me to improve on bosses
trim sigil
Pretty much what has been said there, yeah. SD mah jam
tidal flame
Yup I use SD for one reason only: LC4
trim sigil
Is there much I could modify for 40 heat with Nemesis Blade btw?
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/267071171512631307/733109480803270736/20200716025206_1.jpg
Mostly thinking for a different combo of HL, LC, DC, AP, RI
tidal flame
are you using DD or SD?
trim sigil
SD indeed
tidal flame
if SD then one point fewer on DC and max LC
if DD then one point fewer on LC and one more on CP
just my opinion
😄
tidal flame
i mean if you seed for double edge then sure go for it
but in my own experience DC isn't as free as it seems
trim sigil
Happens with best of us, np
And yeah that's fair. Swarms of enemies get naughty with DC2
Also well, not using seeds currently, but seems like I'd regret that decision soon
About 20% chance to actually get an attack boon before furies
zinc scarab
You could also hypothetically go for more JS, if you think you can pierce through a ton of enemies with dash strikes
trim sigil
Would immediately regret that in Elysium so nah
trim sigil
Thank you
zinc scarab
Will do, can of laughter in progress
trim sigil
2 times at lenny, 1 time in asphodel, 4 on furies, and about same in tartarus being greedy on chaos
gaming!
zinc scarab
I find tis easiest as she has clear wind-ups
trim sigil
Most of troubles arise from not being able to time dashes, anyway
and being greedy with timer ofc
trim sigil
Traps are indeed extra salt to the injury
trim sigil
One attack of tisiphone that catches me the most is 2 swipes into aoe combo
Can't distinguish it from stun + dash
zinc scarab
The stun she slowly floats into the air and somewhat tracks your position
the double dash she chases after you, crouches down, and then lunges
trim sigil
Hmm, I see. That should be a lot easier to tell
Also, does dash lose iframes if i dashstrike? Or it's just unfortunate timings?
zinc scarab
Yeah, she's definitely my favorite to see after getting her like 5 times in a row on Guan Yu
Yes, you lose dash iframes the moment you dash strike
trim sigil
Makes sense. Also +1 into my greediness coin piggy
zinc scarab
Get used to dashing without attacking, and only attacking when sure you don't need dash
and lol
trim sigil
Yea I'd try practicing all these strats then
All is futile when meeting 4 cloning wizards, but gotta keep hopes
zinc scarab
You destroy projectiles with attacks, no panic
trim sigil
Well, for the most part that's how it goes, but it takes great effort to take them out
(especially when they start teleporting)
But heh, mostly muscle memory at that point
zinc scarab
Fair, there's a lot that I just hate from BP2
Chariots with speedy, teleporting, gravity, etc.
trim sigil
Speedy gravity bombers
trim sigil
omae wa mou shindeiru
honest kernel
Lots of BP2 combos are dumb.
zinc scarab
speedy and teleporting always just makes things so much harder to hit
trim sigil
Lots of heat is dumb too
Gotta keep eating the cactus tho
zinc scarab
Cloning is insane
Cloning homing spreaders
Still don't understand why cloning gets other Benefits Package benefits
trim sigil
🤷♀️
Just gotta be happy that if there was a patch where clones could have cloning, it's gone by now
zinc scarab
My only response there is more Guan Yu special
hollow lynx
homing + anything spreaders is the issue
zinc scarab
I've seen skelehead stacks with cloning, and that was satisfying as heck
hollow lynx
slugger homing spreaders, speeder homing spreaders
aspho witches are just scary with BP on
zinc scarab
aspho witches are the spreaders, no?
honest kernel
Slugger Homing Spreaders with Lucifer, that hurt.
Yes.
And since Divine Dash is still screwy with Lucifer (haven't tried tonight's patch) and you regularly eat damage against MM Power Couple...
zinc scarab
Honestly, spreaders feel easier with homing
honest kernel
That was not a fun stretch of runs.
hollow lynx
when it's a room full of them, it really doesn't feel that way
trim sigil
Well, a whole map covered in projectiles vs a huge tail of projectiles onto you
hollow lynx
what with the mass amount of projectiles following you
zinc scarab
I find it easier because the projectiles all form into a smaller line yeah
instead of "hey did someone say, bullethell?"
honest kernel
It's pretty easy to Dash out of hell, but with Homing the bullets move slowly enough that they'll track for a very long time unless you're able to destroy them or Deflect them.
trim sigil
Either situation is stinky enough to never want to encounter one tbh
hollow lynx
you can dash and destroy a path towards spreaders and wail on them
with homing you're probably gonna get hit if you stop moving to attack
zinc scarab
Yeah but who stops moving?
honest kernel
Anyone using the Rail.
zinc scarab
Hestia rail would like a word
honest kernel
Eris/Lucy main.
hollow lynx
bow trying to dash strike
honest kernel
My fastest ever run was with Eris and lightning.
hollow lynx
lightning strife
honest kernel
Also accurate.
fallow stream
The key to Alecto is not backing down until you see her wind up for a beyblade launch
She only has two attacks that hurt you. The slash, and the Beyblades
hollow lynx
the key to alecto is fighting tisiphone instead
zinc scarab
My problem with Alecto is that she sometimes randomly pauses for 3 whole seconds at the top of her wind-up for the beyblades
zinc scarab
Oh I know the telegraph I just end up trying to dodge out of the way far too early
Because of the random time it takes her
fallow stream
Her AOE circles are easy to dash strike back and forth between
It's just the slash and the beyblades
If you allow her to charge up rage while she shoots projectiles at you, you're in trouble.
That's your opportunity to knock her down to next phase, don't back down
zinc scarab
Yeah, honestly still think meg is the worst
fallow stream
Yes
zinc scarab
Purely for her projectile spam
fallow stream
I agree
mossy zinc
Not sure if DC is the worst to get it lower tho
@trim sigil DC should be renamed "every enemy has Acorn", so that it scares off people properly.
I'd take all points out of JS and DC, max out LC, and put the rest in HL.
SD doesn't need healing items or fountains anyway. Might as well go LC4.
@frail crane Hades has 4 different abilities in the first phase. So there's a 1 in 4 chance that he will go invisible first. Seems fine to me. Immediately shows you he can do that.
zinc scarab
Man getting bruiser archers that hugged cover in every room in elysium really reminded me how much I don't enjoy bow
trim sigil
Hey, tbf even max enemy acorn is 2.5 times weaker 
Also after another dozen tries reached hades
Needless to say he whooped me hard
HL puts too much pressure on my rather inconsistent playstyle currently ig
If I spam dashes I get caught by spin, if not, get caught by thrusts
Tbf, what did i expect by rushing into 40 heat at 40 hours
daring hedge
deliberately baiting out his attacks and countering after he's safe to approach is pretty key at 40+
it's mostly just reacting sensibly to everything, which of course is easier said than done
when pressure is on you
trim sigil
Yeah, that's definitely the path that has to be taken
Maybe in a few days would create HL5 BP2 FO2 TD2 HS run just to save-practice hades a bunch of times
mossy zinc
Don't need TD2 or BP2 for the practice. BP2 doesn't affect him at all.
His Super Elite summons don't spawn with perks.
trim sigil
It affects the spawns at p1-- oh, hmm
As for TD2, just to not stall it accidentally
Well, BP2 could be there for initial practice regardless
like when preparing the save
mossy zinc
TD2 will prevent you from just practicing to dodge him forever in any phase, so that you can get used to it.
trim sigil
Well, dodging forever, while indeed helpful, won't let me learn how to damage him effectively
mossy zinc
Gotta learn how to evade damage before you learn how to deal damage.
trim sigil
Can't get hit when already dead
hardy bobcat
nice, just lost a 32 heat run because butterflies ate my accorn against hades
gonna slam my wall brb
light sedge
Hope the wall made it out alive
Also rip run
My condolences
We’ve all been there, I understand the pain that is choking on the hades fight with a promising build or getting unfavorable spawns. He got me with two gray archers on 41 heh
mossy zinc
I don't think it's beneficial to blame it on a "bad spawn". I mean, I understand being frustrated when something like that happens.
But at the end of the day, you just gotta up own to the fact that you could have played better and look at your strategies for the fight or just practice the fight more.
Soulcatcher summon isn't an unwinnable scenario.
My matches with him were very volatile until I actually started practicing the fight.
And I still could be a lot better now.
tidal flame
how do you cope with chariot spawn though
mossy zinc
You practice dealing with Chariots.
Similar to EM Asterius, dashing through them instead of trying to dash away helps a whole lot.
Because they need to turn 180 if you do that.
Other enemy summons can work as obstacles, too, I think.
And you can save your Call for them for i-frames and to kill them faster. That's why I save Lesser Calls for the summons in phase 1 unless I really get God Gauge very fast anyway.
With fast god gauge gain, you can often use a bar immediately when he summons and get a bar back before Hades rejoins the fight.
And if he does rejoin before I kill them, I either use any more calls immediately if I can kill the summons very fast that way or otherwise I'll often hold on to any call and use it immediately at any point when he comes out of invisibility to deal max damage to him and also some damage to the summons as well.
It's not like I don't get hit by Chariots, but stuff like using your calls strategically will help a lot.
If you have a call, anyway.
But on 32 you probably should have one.
mossy zinc
Yeah.
tidal flame
then new strat to use arte call for i frame?
since you can charge to 20% instead of 25%
mossy zinc
But it does no damage, so the fight will take longer.
Well, if you run a crit build anyway, you can take it.
But on 40+ you're not getting the right boons for it to make it worthwhile.
tidal flame
I mean more than I rarely get a call in game
mossy zinc
Yeah.
tidal flame
so I usually take the first call I have
but maybe never Ares
since that did nothing in my 42 run
mossy zinc
I actually pass on Lady Artemis a lot of the time on 40+ if I get Heartbreak Strike or Flourish.
severe vector
I really like Demeter call now because having persistent chill makes a lot of FO2 stuff easier
mossy zinc
But if I didn't get it, I might go for Lady Artemis and hope for Deadly Strike/Flourish instead.
Though Heartbreak is preferred.
I actually avoid Chill just because I'm worried it will throw off my timing.
Not sure if that's true or if it would help.
tidal flame
what do you think about a feedback on ares to make it better?
like it's good with vicious cycle
mossy zinc
Ares' Aid?
zinc scarab
So fun fact, apparently you can animation cancel flurry shot using the cast button to fire even faster
mossy zinc
I think it's decent. Good enough for how strong his other tools can be.
That sounds both fun and like an F10 lol.
mossy zinc
For the damage you can get per 1% of the God Gauge, Ares' Aid is in third place. That's actually not bad.
mossy zinc
Same thing for just the call per se, really.
It's very similar in damage to Zeus' Aid, but it does that damage in 1.2 sec instead of 1.5 sec.
While Zeus' Aid lets you attack at the same time, Ares' Aid gives you invinciblity for the full duration.
zinc scarab
Question: Doom on bow attack? Yay or nay?
mossy zinc
Probably no. I don't know how much time normally passes between two Power Shots with Dash-Strikes.
If it's long enough, then Curse of Agony could be decent.
zinc scarab
It seems to be long enough
which would mean +50-100 damage per attack
which is more than Aphrodite, but obviously scales a lot worse
mossy zinc
So . . . that means there are times when you can't use Zeus' Aid for damage but you can use Ares' Aid, and there are times where Zeus' Aid will lead to more damage. So you can't compare DPS really.
zinc scarab
Foxy, do me a solid and try dash strike doom bow out a bit
mossy zinc
I don't know how obviously it scales worse.
tidal flame
Ok I'll try 32 heat doom bow
mossy zinc
Twin Shot will do more if you have Heartbreak Strike.
zinc scarab
I'd love to see if it works at all
tidal flame
We will see. Not now though xD. It's 1am
zinc scarab
I'm saying doom scales worse Nyaa
mossy zinc
Does it? I haven't looked into pom and rarity scaling for Curse of Agony.
tidal flame
Chain shot doom might be something worth
zinc scarab
I'm thinking that with things like hammers/crits etc. Aphro probably synergizes more, but doom may be better as base damage
Was thinking of using doom when I realized I was struggling more with single-target damage, and really just damage overall
mossy zinc
Oh right, Zagreus Aspect has crit chance.
zinc scarab
Yeah
mossy zinc
Just run a Twin Shot seed. That should solve your damage problems.
Or don't.
Ask for bow buffs meanwhile.
zinc scarab
I'm trying to at least not seed until I finish 32 heat
tidal flame
We already did ask for bow buff xD
zinc scarab
And I have been asking for bow buffs 😆
mossy zinc
I've made bow feedback in memory of all our fallen archers who died to TD.
honest kernel
imagine picking TD
zinc scarab
Lol, TD2 hurts with bow
mossy zinc
Wait.
@honest kernel you're a girl.
What's the highest heat you've done?
This is important. Answer me. 🔫
Is it less than 41?
zinc scarab
Unnecessary competition, ahoy!
honest kernel
what
I'm a girl indeed
I mean if I would have finished 40 I would have already flexed here so dw
zinc scarab
Nyaa's just very competitve, and looks for reasons why she's better than others
don't worry, you're all okay
shut siren
Question: Doom on bow attack? Yay or nay?
If you had (or are looking) for something that slows down your rate of fire, or makes you shoot slower overall, yeah imo its a good pick. (So like an Explosive Arrow hammer, for example)
The Curse of Longing or Impending Doom/Dire Misfortune Combos also help you on faster rates.
I'd probably prefer it on the special myself though
mossy zinc
What do you mean. I don't need to look for reasons. They're obvious. O~hohohohoho!
I died to not seeing Patroclus in Elysium on a very good Guan Yu run. 
Also, teleporting Flamewheels ate my DD for breakfast.
I had to fight and die once to Asterius for that.
mossy zinc
I just checked the recording: Speeder + Shifter.
So +50% speed (on top of the +40% from FO2) and teleports.
wicked sparrow
I think I'll first get used to EM3 and MM only before randomly increasing the heat.
Technically I'm used to only the embers of Heat (Heat 3 is highest rn) but I'm interested in the higher heats.
mossy zinc
mossy zinc
I mean, the bomb changed trajectory exactly 1 frame before I dashed.
wicked sparrow
100,000 IQ play by Theseus then.
honest kernel
em3 is so chaotic
hollow lynx
but look at that pretty explosion
honest kernel
sometimes theseus just collides with me and I lose like 3 acorn charges?
mossy zinc
Yep lol. That's one of the many reasons I hate that fight with Malphon.
honest kernel
bc it keeps counting has hits
mossy zinc
I'm scared to dash because Deflects will make bomb trajectories unpredictable, and I'm scared to not dash because bomb trajectories are unpredictable . . .
honest kernel
deflected bombs shouldn't hurt the player imo but maybe thats too ez then
it just makes everythinh more wonky
mossy zinc
I don't know why that single fight just screws over Deflect builds so much.
wicked sparrow
36 seconds left huh. Wouldn't the transition itself consume a lot of that time?
mossy zinc
They take zero damage from Deflects, and deflecting bombs can totally screw you over.
honest kernel
I honestly assumed thats how deflect works their projectiles=your projectiles but I had to find out painfully that it doesn't x)
mossy zinc
Yeah, they just break how Deflect works in every other fight.
honest kernel
pretty wierd
hollow lynx
deflect wouldn't exactly make EM3 the easiest fight in the world lol, no idea why they needed to screw over athena over
hollow lynx
not sure about the immunity to deflect damage, but bombs are only in em3 anyways so
honest kernel
I mean the pot guys in styx have something that looks the same
so I assumed these 2 worked the same
but I guess not
thinking about it I never got screwed up from deflecting the pot guys
mossy zinc
Yeah.
hollow lynx
deflect works on bothers
mossy zinc
It almost seems like a bug.
I don't know if I should try Guan Yu again. I had a great run with Weak, Epic Life Affirmation, and Epic Different League.
But I still didn't end up with a lot of HP by Theseus and Asterius..
Well, I guess Patroclus would have helped a lot . . .
mossy zinc
@honest kernel you need to clear 40+ so I'm not the only girl anymore.
But also I won't lose my title of Best Female Hades Player to no one! ⚔️
narrow mauve
Pick one already !
honest kernel
🕵️
narrow mauve
Does she need to stay exactly one heat below you at all times ?
mossy zinc
I'll just stay ahead of her.
honest kernel
we'll see
mossy zinc
First I'm getting all weapons to 41 while still having the fastest 40+ clear.
Then I'll do maybe 50 or something to make a statement.
Just gotta RNG into Greatest Reflex from Lord Hermes along the way. Easy.
honest kernel
ez 👏
tidal flame
One upping people, smh
trim sigil
Why 1up when 2up is a thing
mossy zinc
10-up.
fossil reef
narrow mauve
Well played.
fallow stream
Completely off topic... But you know what drives me mad? Seeing someone play Super Mario and swing the gamepad around in the air every time they jump.
It would crack me up to see a streamer doing that with Hades
mossy zinc
Lol my grandpa always did that.
wicked sparrow
Well, I suppose it's a natural reaction or excitement. And I love it.
A Hades related example would be Haelian looking to dash out of his chair each time Zag did against Hades.
(BTW I recently discovered someone like them. I should prolly watch your runs wherever they are. Literally represent the godlike part of the game.)
cyan stag
I like to sit on a gymnastic ball when gaming on a console. It allows bouncing movements without the risk of accidently falling of a chair, and you don't need to make an effort to return to the original position.
shut siren
deflect not affecting EM3 Theseus bombs is very likely a bug, as Athena can deflect every other bomb style projectile in the game (Bothers, for example)
finite valve
They should do something about Theseus melting your acorn in 1s
it's infuriating
especially on very high heat
fresh marten
Theseus bombs are wonky, sometimes I deflect sometimes not lol
frail crane
https://imgur.com/87TNKsX
and this is why I love the shield >:3
trim sigil
Blocked god
hollow lynx
savior numbskulls, gross
trim sigil
You are not trapped with them. They are trapped with you
frail crane
*survival room, btw
trim sigil
wow, that makes it even more comical
visual junco
I'm struggling to win my first 32 heat run. Is there any combination that makes it easier? What do people tend to do to the pact?
tidal flame
Depends on your playstyle and weapon
I can give you a "core" that you can build around
visual junco
Ahh I've been trying with Excalibur, I've had great fun with it, but I don't think it's good for high heat.
tidal flame
But ultimately it's up to you.
The core is HL5 EM3 BP2 MM UC FO2 TD2
That's not 32 heat, with the few points left are up to you.
Chaos Shield is a solid choice if you just want to get 32 done
You can slap just about anything on the special and do fine.
visual junco
Ahh interesting. I don't play shield very often so I'll give it a go
thanks for info on the core thing for it!
tidal flame
Yeah definitely tweak it a bit. Good luck
trim sigil
Let me see what I had
LC2 CF2 EM3 BP2 MM UC FO2 DC1 AP1 TD2
Basically replaced HL5 with bunch of random things so yeah
Not a fan of taking 56/80 dmg on hades yknow
tidal flame
I have been developing strats overcome DC2 with Bow, specially using Hera cast multi hit and Zeus multiple target casts to clear DC hearts with Hera Bow. I proudly present to you the beautiful result that I had: https://streamable.com/pwnxzd
awesome interaction indeed
frail crane
Beautiful
zinc scarab
Ah clearly an effective combo
frail crane
Please teach me Fox
zinc scarab
Fox did you ever mess around with doom bow?
tidal flame
I am
That's part of the package
The idea is
Doom Attack Zeus Casts Hunter Dash
Maybe Athena Special or Call for safety
trim sigil
they do stick, but rather inconsistently
zinc scarab
If you don't care about sticking I'd recommend Athena casts for high single target, low aoe, or Poseidon for average damage, large aoe
tidal flame
I'll check out Poseidon bext
frail crane
Yup
frail crane
Over +450% xD
fallow stream
I have been developing strats overcome DC2 with Bow, specially using Hera cast multi hit and Zeus multiple target casts to clear DC hearts with Hera Bow.
Ah... The old DC2 + Saviour mob.
Worst combo ever. Need to spam more special attacks to wear those hearts down
severe vector
I think you just die and restart
tidal flame
well I am not sure if you are being sarcastic but my special did not do a dent on their armor
remember that snow burst + x3 zeus casts + normal attack did nothing in that video
i'm assuming zeus casts as they don't stick into enemies?
@zinc scarab yeah you are right, I had more success with Poseidon casts due to the huge AOE
I got to Elysium a couple of times with Poseidon casts and a mismatch of other boons.
DC2 can be done with Hera Bow, just that you need to remember where the cast is and hope that it doesn't lie in lava or out of bound.
trim sigil
Time to deal some extra pain to yall https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/267071171512631307/733533960038252584/unknown.png
Such narrow gap between win and what i got
daring hedge
oh i know the feeling
here's an old 41 run of mine to compare: http://puu.sh/G2lSS/24f7d88b7b.jpg
it was not a victory.
mossy zinc
Hmmm. I feel like HL5 is a bad choice for Guan Yu on 40+.
zinc scarab
It is! Surprisingly!
daring hedge
my 40 with GY had HL5 personally
zinc scarab
I definitely think that Poseidon cast is probably the most well rounded cast
Plus, if I recall correctly, sometimes like aphro cast it doesn't get stuck in enemies
honest kernel
needs to be dead center for that to get stuck i think
mossy zinc
Ugh, why is bow DPS so bad.
narrow mauve
Biggest of moods
It was my favorite weapon when i started the game. Playstyle-wise, still sort of is, but mannnnnnnnnnn, i almost never bow run
mossy zinc
Amazing for?
Even if I can meet TD2 reliably, the lack of mobility but need for constant Dash-Strikes is just really stressful.
533 msec when you do a Volley before you can dash again. ~580 msec for Dash-Strike Power Shots from the moment you press Dash~Attack.
narrow mauve
let's not compare to nemesis sword lest we all become sad, right
shadow zodiac
amazing for clearing runs, was the only weapon i used till GY aspect realeased
mossy zinc
What heat though?
slim sable
How does Dark Regeneration interact with Lasting Consequences?
mossy zinc
You get reduced healing from it.
shadow zodiac
suppose you get 6hp from 10 darkness, with LC accordingly to it you get 25% to whatever reuced from 6
slim sable
Ah okay, so LC truly is lasting
shadow zodiac
yea
shadow zodiac
i think everything is affected by LC
shadow zodiac
hmm didnt know that
mossy zinc
And Quick Recovery.
slim sable
Oh thanks!
robust zephyr
stubborn roots if that isnt patched out yet
slim sable
ooooh that would be really good
probably defeat the point of the pact though so i guess patching it out makes sense
mossy zinc
Well, Stubborn Roots requires that you have no DDs or SDs remaining, anyway.
slim sable
Oh and I guess if you are taking that level of LC you would also be using TD so you can't just farm health
mossy zinc
You don't have to use TD for high heat.
honest kernel
bow is cool tho ur just mean
mossy zinc
trim sigil
Bow is sure cool. Cool things aren't always effective tho
mossy zinc
Is it cool because its Volley freezes you in place unable to defend yourself?
trim sigil
Yes, high effort medium reward
mossy zinc
Meanwhile, Hestia goes click-boom.
forest mason
i do think the bow is my favorite to use, though it def has the issue of making you stand still in a game about movement which makes the normal charge hard to use
im a fan of all the weapons ofc (except for whatever reason the spear, just not my type)
foggy ruin
Dash strike with the bow is your friend
fallow stream
Hera bow used to be good when you could get duo shot through Artemis
mossy zinc
Hera is too much maintenance. You need both a good Cast and a good Attack, and then you still want a good Dash.
tidal flame
Yup
fallow stream
Bow has always been tied for worst weapon with the spear for me, until the spear got buffed in the last patch, now I like it
tidal flame
Been testing Hera
It's mind boggling complicated
But Poseido cast, some random attack seems to do OK against DC2
I usually manage time OK with it
But I die because of how immobile it is
Sometimes your casts go oob, too
Then you are done.
fallow stream
This may sound stupid, but I wish to could set/manipulate your own max range with the bow, so that you could get your own rhythm to power shots
trim sigil
To be entirely fair, macro will also mess with your dodges as getting power shot in some situations takes too long
honest kernel
hera was my first 32 clear so it has a special place for me
forest mason
i REALLY love hera
its 100% my fav weapon to use, if you can get a good combo its absurdly powerful
tidal flame
Yeah I remember the day when Ice Wine Scintillating Feast Cold Fusion Hera runs were the pinnacle od damage
mossy zinc
Nearly 2 hours and not a single Charged Flight hammer seed. 
fallow stream
Take the most craptacular hammers offered and it'll appear on the next seed
mossy zinc
I just counted in the Administrative Chamber, and I went through 70 seeds.
And I now have 76 runs with Beowulf, so when I did 41, I got it in the 6th seed lol.
fallow stream
I'm debating if I should have breakfast or brunch
mossy zinc
The answer is yes.
mossy zinc
@fallow stream idea was basically to just do the same build that I did on Hestia but with Beowulf and Heartbreak Flourish, then I saw horheristo used the same Flourish lol.
I was hoping it would work well with Guan Yu and Charged Skewer after that, but the reduced HP hits pretty hard.
Just spamming the shield throw safely is how I played most of my early runs in the game. Safe but not very strong. Now Beowulf lets me do that while dealing a ton of damage lol.
zinc scarab
Lol, looking in feedback to see Nyaa struggling with bow on BP2
Not wrong just interesting
fallow stream
Ideal build would be something that could spread weakness effectively, while using deadly flourish on shield @mossy zinc
That means passion flare for max chunking
Or aphro attack and spread it with bullrush, turn around and throw charged special
Even if you don't get heart rend, it's still effective
To me, optimal hammers for shield/heart rend would be the following two builds:
Heartbreak strike
Deadly flourish
Dashing flight
Charged flight
Or
Passion flare
Deadly flourish
Charged shot
Charged flight
tidal flame
Do you have time for flare on a Charged Flight build?
From what I see, people seem to ignore casts altogether
fallow stream
The reason they ignore casts is because why would you cast without a direct synergy
But if you have a reason to, I don't see why it wouldn't be useful
I would cast with a charged shot build solely for privileged status
Nevermind heart rend
trim sigil
Casting usually takes longer than continuing comboes without it
tidal flame
I'm more concerned about the DPS
trim sigil
Altho there surely are openings at any point which will make casts more-less free
fallow stream
Remember, you can load your cast just to have it ready
You don't have to cast immediately
tidal flame
Usually using all Special Cast and Attack results in a DPS drop
fallow stream
The thing about the shield is this.
You can stand in one spot throwing specials, then when the enemy gets too close, bullrush through at max range and continue spamming
That's not a DPS drop, that's a DPS increase
It's just a little more complicated
It is most certainly not a DPS drop if you consider privileged status
tidal flame
How do you get PS?
I mean if we talking best case scenario then sure
In actual runs, it can be hard.
fallow stream
You would need two separate status effects on attack/special or attack/cast
So, if you threw heart rend out the window, you'd want something like Heartbreak flourish + Frost strike or icy flare
tidal flame
Sounds good.
fallow stream
I just think players aren't optimizing Beo special builds
It's not hard to build into at least privileged status
Heart rend is an afterthought, it seals the deal
tidal flame
I mean I tried to build Hera optimizing for Attack Cast and Dash
It's a lot harder than it sounds given 40+ heat
fallow stream
I don't bother with dash on Hera
I also don't bother with bow... So there's that 🤣
tidal flame
Not to sound condescending, but I would love to see you try that build.
fallow stream
Which build?
tidal flame
Heartbreak strike
Deadly flourish
Dashing flight
Charged flight
Passion flare
Deadly flourish
Charged shot
Charged flight
fallow stream
Sure
I'll try a run with the heat 40 configuration I have now, though it probably isn't optimized for shield
Yeah, died to TD2 on first try, lol.
Had deadly flourish and dashing flight already though
I'm rusty with shield, haven't used it in a while
tidal flame
You might want to seed for Charged Flight
fallow stream
Nah
tidal flame
That build has potential, but I can't imagine doing it without Charged Flight seed
fallow stream
If I get it, I get it
I mean, even with just dashing flight I was already chunking 587dmg with deadly flourish
Just to give you an idea
Epic deadly flourish by itself hits for 270
fallow stream
Though you may be right @tidal flame
3x in a row I timed out in Tartarus. I may need a charged flight seed
Bah.. finally got deadly flourish and charged flight, ran into an impossible room
fallow stream
I swear this game says "oh... You have the makings of a good build early in Tartarus with that shield... Here, let me kill you with this."
Every. Time.
And no @tidal flame the hammer was the 3rd room, so it wasn't guaranteed
DC2 saviour is BS https://imgur.com/a/px0XdRI
Saviour + bruiser on wretched thug mobs is essentially game over in Tartarus with Beowulf
It's tough even with fast weapons
Or assassin... Whatever the 2nd perk is
tidal flame
yeah F10 that room
fallow stream
Already did, and put it in feedback
zinc scarab
Honestly, numbskulls with savior is terrible too
Pretty much just anything with savior feels bad
tidal flame
you saw my vid form yesterday xD
I think savior on ranged enemies is OK
just that melee enemies always clump up
fallow stream
Numbskulls can be killed solely because they have extremely low health
tidal flame
well not if you can't outdps their shield regen
fallow stream
I can show you how I took care of two waves of numbskulls with saviour and linklaser
tidal flame
which weapon?
fallow stream
Beo
tidal flame
ok I am interested 😄
fallow stream
Let me trim the vid
zinc scarab
I think certain high spawn rate low health enemies should probably not be allowed to spawn with armor, and in turn benefits package (i.e. Flamewheels)
tidal flame
well BP Flamewheels are actually one of my favorite to go against
so I can't share the sentiment there
zinc scarab
Hate so so many flamewheels BP combos
Does the bonus backstab damage from parting shot apply to all kinds of backstabs? Like attacks/specials?
fallow stream
Any backstab bonus you have applies to casts, not the other way around
For the record @tidal flame it took me a bit to figure it out, but now I know how to approach the situation if I get another numbskull mob.
This is a poor example... I forgot I had Demeter aid
But you can do the same with cast loading
Some masochist actually downvoted my feedback on saviour 😆
fallow stream
@mossy zinc I have a charged flight hammer seed if you want it
Also has charged shot, so you can take your pick
I saved a copy regardless
Let me know
@tidal flame this is why I think players haven't even scratched the potential of Beo special builds:
lv1 epic deadly flourish + charged flight https://imgur.com/a/WLGd9lY
1168dmg without any other modifiers yet
Get a chaos boon plus a few poms, you'll be hitting for 3k+ easy