that's why Speedster Chariots should be illegal
#h1-high-heat-strategies
tidal flame
please sign the petition by hitting F10 in game every time you see a Chariot speeding in low speed zones threatening the safety of our community.
hollow lynx
you see a herd of absolutely feral speeder-slugger chariots in the distance
in a panic you summon skelly, but they run him through within 5 seconds
if piranhas were land-dwelling and also extremely chonky
robust zephyr
I wish they stopped their charge once colliding with an obstacle or if you deflect it, like Asterius. Would even make for good practice for the boss if they designed it like that
mossy zinc
Chariots are a good example for why I hate the EM3 fight with Malphon.
severe vector
Chariots just feel like horrible enemies
mossy zinc
Hmm. Sometimes EM3 RNG makes you choose between getting hit by spin2win, bombs, or machine guns.
FO2 EM3.
severe vector
Bombs is never the right choice :<
mossy zinc
Spin2win is no better.
severe vector
If I have acorn I take the bomb actually now I think about it
Spear tip I’ll do machine gun... probably
mossy zinc
I like when Theseus decides to just delete your Acorn from off-screen.
severe vector
Yeah lol I’ve been experimenting with either achillies bracelet or the spear tip for Elysium
mossy zinc
Acorn is still the most consistent.
severe vector
The bracelet actually feels really good and helps me out quite a bit even in regular rooms
It’s a really big struggle for me to balance between dealing damage in that fight vs being in a position where I can always safely get out of a charge or spin
I feel like the bull’s moveset is too varied in terms of response you need and with FO2 you just simply don’t have time to react sometimes. I wonder if the right thing to do is to get a few punches in then retreat until you can tell what his next set of moves are, but it’s simply too hard especially with TD2. The longer the fight drags on the more chances to make mistakes as well.
mossy zinc
Main problem is his untelegraphed swing below 50% HP.
And the bull charge can be ridiculous sometimes.
Especially if he does it from off-screen. You get hit before you can react lol.
severe vector
Charges are too strong I think they need to either have less sharp cornering or get stuck on terrain easier
mossy zinc
Or both.
severe vector
I know the correct response is either get him stuck on a pillar or the wall, but sometimes it feels impossible without chill stacks on him already and he just glides alongside the pillar or make a sharp turn at the wall then nail you. I dunno if it’s FO2 messing with the physics or whatnot.
Maybe we just need to have some square pillars instead of the rounded ones haha
mossy zinc
Hmm. For FO2 EM3, I try to fight him at the edge of the arena between a pillar and a wall. When he does the bull charge, I dash through him. He'll hit the pillar or wall trying to do a 180.
That's very consistent.
The only problem is when I'm evading bombs and just then he decides to bull charge when I'm in a bad spot for that.
misty bough
is 50 heat the highest people have done?
foggy ruin
EM3 T&A is exactly the reason why I love Drift Dash, especially with Greatest Reflexes. I've had fun outrunning Asterius with triple dashes; even without Greatest Reflexes the additional movespeed gives me a chance to maneuver.
mossy zinc
50 is the highest that's on video.
mossy zinc
I lost to a good run because I forgot to SD regen before the shop before EM3. 
mossy zinc
Got Theseus to 35~40% starting the fight at 0:00. Sigh.
finite valve
So yeah, had big spin + fast spin for Guan Yu on a 40 heat run, arrow on hit, hangover on attack, Athena call... so basically a golden run. And I had to go through 5 doors in Styx.
Rip run.
mossy zinc
I had a run on 41 Heat end in Elysium with TD2. Literally my message just above yours lol.
finite valve
I had to sell starting gauge at 50% before going up to Styx 😢
mossy zinc
And I did kill Asterius and got Theseus down to 35~40% with 0:00 remaining at the start of the fight.
Even if I'd done damage faster, Theseus's neverending transition at 33% would have killed me lol.
You could turn off TD entirely, or you could try to just RNG into a better run.
trim sigil
Tbh that makes me wish there at least was a subtle hint after 2nd styx door where the satyr's sack is
Although it's probably hard to implement without being overly obvious while helpful
mossy zinc
It's honestly only a real issue on high heat.
trim sigil
or speedruns but yeh
mossy zinc
40+ is like maybe 15 players now. We were less than 10 who did 40+ only a few weeks ago lol.
finite valve
If I understand the RNG correctly, the sack isn't in a designated door. The game just chooses how many doors you gotta open.
So at the end of the day, you have to make your choices considering this. The 2nd door might be the one, it often is, so you can choose a "hard" door so you get double rewards for "free". But if you are supposed to open more doors, you'll get a tough fight so it's a risk.
mossy zinc
Well, the end result is basically the same.
finite valve
nah
Because you can choose a hard door as 2nd door for more reward or you can go the safe way and open the 3 easy doors.
finite valve
Tiny vermin disagrees.
finite valve
Yes but I'm not taking that risk 😄
mossy zinc
I'm not scared of no Tiny Vermin.
I was more scared of Bruiser Snakestones.
Probably still am. They do so much damage.
Although Speeder Brimstones are worse now.
finite valve
this room scares too but the walls make it more manageable
tiny vermin is just a long ass fight
mossy zinc
Not the Snakestone miniboss. Regular BP2 Snakestones.
mossy zinc
It's less of an issue now that Bruiser was nerfed, but their beams concentrate way faster now.
Bruiser Snakestones ended many 40+ runs just because they took forever and a minute to kill.
severe vector
purple ones?
severe vector
does bruiser perk ensure only 1 of them spawn?
mossy zinc
Nope.
severe vector
huh i guess i just haven't seen 2 bruiser snakestones together at once yet lol
i wouldn't know how to deal with that if they spawned sufficiently far apart
mossy zinc
I had 3 in one tunnel on 41, and that tunnel took 2 DDs and 3 minutes to clear lol.
Before they nerfed Bruiser.
severe vector
yikes
i do take most of my styx damage from them now since i'm trying to do fists on 32 heat
when they cover each other with range but not close enough for me to line of sight both properly it gets really rough
tidal flame
lol you will have to see the vid
I got 5hit until life 2 phase 2 (so basically acorn only)
then I burned 400 ish hp in like 15 sec
xD
mossy zinc
Yeah, sure. I'll err . . . I'll add it to my playlist of 40+ clears that I need to watch. 👀
mossy zinc
I'm a busy woman.
trim sigil
400hp in 15 secs sounds like a laser boogaloo
tidal flame
I just click through a random room and boss fights
that's it xD
also a surprisingly fast Elysium
with 2:20 on the clock
mossy zinc
I killed Asterius and got Theseus down to like 35~40%. Entering the chamber with 0:00 on the timer lol.
Earlier today.
surreal geode
@finite valve 👁️
fallow stream
Hmmm... I bought all the music from the underworld contractor, why is "the bloodless" still missing?
tidal flame
I killed Asterius and got Theseus down to like 35~40%. Entering the chamber with 0:00 on the timer lol.
yeah close calls like that are heartbreaks
trim sigil
Oh right, speaking of TD memes, survived almost 2 Elysium rooms with 0:00 but cursed slash
Died with a final eyeball being oneshot, just couldn't do the finishing swing
mossy zinc
I'm actually proud I made it that far in the fight lol.
fallow stream
@trim sigil if you wanna see a horrifying end to a TD2 run, find my heat 40 fail in self promotion and skip to the end
It's literally called heat 40 fail
mossy zinc
I actually had a hilarious end to a run today, but I'll upload that when I've finished the project.
fallow stream
I murdered Asterius in 30s and was inches from killing Theseus
honest kernel
dont run TD ez
honest kernel
is it rly that free when you keep choking in elysium 😔
mossy zinc
And it's the game's fault if I don't make it.
honest kernel
ah I see thats understandable
tidal flame
just get fountain, mid shop, patty, and than
that's 4 free rooms
idk why people keep complaining
mossy zinc
It's the option select pact. Always the game's fault if I die.
tidal flame
just git gud smh
tidal flame
and fly right back to hypnos 
mossy zinc
I think you've been using it wrong.
I just always skip to the final final boss fight.
||The Storyteller.||
honest kernel
cyan stag
As far as I know, you will always have a choice between the mid shop and something else.
severe vector
so i can't miss it if i don't take chaos/erebus?
cyan stag
Yes.
autumn sable
@robust zephyr amazing Nemesis run
I agree with you, once you have something like DC2 on, double edge almost becomes mandatory for ultra high heat runs for the double hit
fierce estuary
I feel the bigger problem is BP2 with JS3 and CP2 on TD2. It just takes significantly longer to kill certain perk combinations that not having the best damage can really hurt a run solely because you will lose a lot of time.
tidal flame
@autumn sable I made 42, finally...
just looked at the list
40+ club is so crowded xD
autumn sable
45 is the new 40
tidal flame
apparently
autumn sable
with doom hestia?!
at this point, I think viewing the 40+ list is more about experimenting with unexplored aspects/boons than anything else
tidal flame
no tempest strike
autumn sable
can only push the top spot so much before the wall hits back
tidal flame
I have one or two attempt at Hades with Doom Hestia
but eh
attempts doesnt count
I need to take what i was given though
autumn sable
@fading star technically has top billing for tempest strike success
autumn sable
they adjusted how the special works
but it still kind of works
i just don't think anyone is interested in retreading
tidal flame
what changed specifically? sorry I don't run Rama and it looks the same on the surface to me
autumn sable
also probably decreased the special speed enough to make 49 hard enough to not be worth? maybe?
not sure exactly but the notes say the special speed and aim assist got reduced
i'm sure with hermes special speed, you can probably still find plenty of success
tidal flame
yeah. ik the special build is good but leaving that essentially +60% attack damage on the table is sad 😦
what if special can stack with each other
fading star
The watergun build was one of the most fun things I've done in a long time. Not the most practical but I wasn't going for that, lol
Look at all these high heat runners. It brings a tear to my eye!
autumn sable
lol wait, this 42 Hestia run is with Tempest Strike is what you meant @tidal flame
autumn sable
I thought the "no tempest strike" meant you saw no tempest strike on the list
i totally misread that
tidal flame
oh lmao
well I was missing a comma
but yeah I was given a tempest strike and with AP and RI I kinda have to take it
shoehorning Doom in is a bit gimmicky for the situation
zinc scarab
I feel like the watergun build could be quite good with luci as it actually scales with more hammer and boon attack buffs
autumn sable
@tidal flame 3:30 at champs, obviously TD2 is not short enough
autumn sable
shoulda just f10d that greater Ares call
tidal flame
the gauge wasn't full I don't think
autumn sable
i feel like you panicked a little at the end there
tidal flame
lol actually the opposite, I was like ok it's done and stopped focusing
and that was the result. not even close bb
autumn sable
lol
trim sigil
We describing td2 being too easy?
Yeah i have left the father at 2:55, they definitely could do TD3 which is 5 minutes
zinc scarab
I disagree on TD2 being too easy. When you take into account Elysium, Styx Sack Rng, and all the heat pacts that increase enemies/health, it starts to really become a nightmare
trim sigil
/s
I actually got murdered by 4sack, no way I'd actually consider TD worth an upgrade
tidal flame
Yeah we are all being sarcastic
TD2 at Elysium and Styx is a huge issue
Just that recently people (myself included) get out of Elysium with a lot of time left, hence the meme.
Of course if you look, we had crazy RNG with good build, mid shop, fountain, Patty, Than, etc.
trim sigil
I do wonder which approach TD should take to fix the inconsistencies given each zone is different length
tbh id rather it to not exist at all but that's mostly salt speaking
tidal flame
Rollover the left over time
Not necessarily all of it
Cause that's just a pool of 28 mins which is really easy
But like half the time from the previous biome rollovers to the next one
Or some percentage
hollow lynx
elysium feels too long, take a chamber or two from there and put them in tart/aspho
tidal flame
So you have incentive to run through Tartarus and Asphodel quickly, too
hollow lynx
styx, maybe with TD you're guaranteed to get sack within 3 tunnels, not entirely sure
trim sigil
Within 4 tunnels with td1; 3 tunnels with td2
That'd also make it less rng for speedrunners 
severe vector
Post that as feedback and I will definitely thumbs up it
north wyvern
that is a multilayer joke/play on words
frail crane
True, because of their art style
mossy zinc
Congratulations!
zinc scarab
If only they didn't give darkness now
mossy zinc
Yeah lol.
zinc scarab
...And I just got my second void fishing spot now
frail crane
Nice!
zinc scarab
Nice but also a little surprising to get my first two in a row lol
zinc scarab
And now a third chaos fish?
hollow lynx
how are you so lucky
zinc scarab
I mean, it's been 350+ runs before I even saw any chaos fish
And by the time this happened, all I'm recieving is darkness
I'm more glad to be completing codex entries than anything
shadow zodiac
for 32 heat, which all pacts are recommended?
tidal flame
Which weapon?
shadow zodiac
fists or arthur
frail crane
You changed your icon and I was really confused for a moment
mossy zinc
hollow lynx
seeing bow so low makes me sad
mossy zinc
What bow?
hollow lynx
tidal flame
The 40+ run list is going to be so long
mossy zinc
Well, good. It was lonely with just 8 people—or even fewer before that. 
tidal flame
mossy zinc
Theseus bugged out riding into a pillar and just standing there, which made that part of the fight a lot shorter.
But that was after Asterius had already been defeated.
So it didn't matter too much.
@shadow zodiac I would avoid EM3 with Malphon, but otherwise anything works.
EM3 is doable, too, but it's just a very frustrating fight with Malphon.
shadow zodiac
its much better with the increased range upgrade
mossy zinc
Yeah, but you can't bet on that showing up unless you use a seed.
tidal flame
No vid?
mossy zinc
I'm too lazy to upload right now.
mossy zinc
That's correct, actually. I forgot to change OBS back to 1080p after streaming.
honest kernel
died to hades on 40 again holy f
😔
at this point I can't stop anymore because I'm that close
🤏
mossy zinc
@honest kernel do you practice the fight at all?
honest kernel
nah but I think I'll do that next time before trying 40 againn
mossy zinc
Yeah, that helps a lot.
honest kernel
do people grab maxy save files or make their own
mossy zinc
I make my own.
That way you can get the conditions you want.
I'd recommend doing a run with just HL5, EM3, FO2, HS, and any of CP2 or DC if you use those in your actual run.
Then you can save all of the boss fights.
Try to get just the very core of your build and sell anything else. Can't rely on getting any fancy build on 40+.
For me that's usually just the Attack that I want and a call from Lord Dionysus, Lord Zeus, or Poseidon.
I practiced the fights with Smoldering Air with Hestia and never saw Smoldering Air on any 40+ run with Hestia lol.
honest kernel
yeah I'm usually not getting there with anything fancy anyways
I think I need a quick rundown on how to mess with the save files here
can I just copy my save from profile 1 to 2
mossy zinc
Kupoing off-screen projectiles.
mossy zinc
Is it just me or could Brimstones and Snakestones really use a hit rate nerf on FO2?
acoustic hare
[in Hypnos' voice] Have you tried, you know, not standing still in their line of fire?
The faster windup is what usually gets me with them. Much harder to escape damage when they're about to fire.
mossy zinc
I had a checkmate situation earlier with a Purple Snakestone behind the pillar and Vermin of all things.
Snakestone would not let me get out to Attack, and Vermin respawned endlessly.
And the next couple hits would end the run.
acoustic hare
Did you pull it off?
mossy zinc
I ended up dying to one that spawned right on top of me and bit me before I could Attack it.
acoustic hare
oof
mossy zinc
Where dashing would have meant dying to the Snakestone.
pulsar rover
there's some things in general that I think hits too fast. Most any damage over time, really.
mossy zinc
I've F10d one Giant Rat at least that bites you the very instant you enter the chamber lol. So hopefully that will get fixed.
pulsar rover
[REDACTED] and the pots for example seem to hit like ten thousand times if you get hit resulting in 200+ damage :S
acoustic hare
Cloning Witches with Homing projectiles are the embodiment of pure evil.
mossy zinc
If you notice anything like that, please make sure to press F10 and save a fellow godling from experiencing the same fate.
pulsar rover
broken spearpoint to me feels great for the last area only because the 1.5 second immunity timer makes rapid hitting attacks no longer wipe out your entire health.
acoustic hare
If you notice anything like that, please make sure to press F10 and save a fellow godling from experiencing the same fate.
You see, it's hard in these situations to differentiate the truly stupidly unfair chamber from an intended experience.
pulsar rover
(there's also [REDACTED] spin attack chunking your health but IMO that feels fair, it's just that the dodge timing on them feels off to me)
mossy zinc
Amir said we can F10 anything that seems very unfair, and they will evaluate it.
Like broken BP2 combos.
pulsar rover
BP2? and huh i will remember that
mossy zinc
Benefits Package 2.
pulsar rover
ah
mossy zinc
I actually back up any temp files from any broken combos that I die to.
So that I can practice them later and see if I can come up with a strategy that works reliably.
Or if it's just broken, in which case I can report it.
pulsar rover
i need to refresh myself on that when doing it really, from memory the only BP that was particularly annoying was the "billion wisps that now explode" which was next to impossible for some weapons
acoustic hare
Cloning Witches with Homing projectiles (in Tartarus) are the embodiment of pure evil.
@mossy zinc Would you consider this a 'broken combo?'
mossy zinc
No, I've handled a lot of them just today, actually.
Also, Cloners are always in Tartarus, no need to specify that.
pulsar rover
for 'things hit you when you spawn in' path of exile solves this via making you invincible and untargetable when you spawn in until you move. Which also handles load issues quite well.
mossy zinc
Could just move the spawn point back a bit, that's what I suggested in the F10.
acoustic hare
No, I've handled a lot of them just today, actually.
@mossy zinc See? I'd consider this a broken combo if I were you. It's a completely subjective experience.
just git gud lul
mossy zinc
?
Broken is something like a chamber of Bruiser Snakestones that take 2-3 minutes to kill back in Nighty Night.
Even with a high DPS build.
mossy zinc
There's no strategy to deal with that. You could attack relentlessly, and they would still take that long and probably end any TD2 run.
acoustic hare
Is there a strategy to deal with Speedy Teleporting Brightswords that teleport on top of you and deal their 2-hit-no-telegraph combo?
static plover
Bruiser snakestones had more effective hp than bosses from memory
mossy zinc
That's certainly what it felt like. I don't know the exact numbers, but it was really awful in any case. They single-handedly ended many high heat runs lol.
I don't think I've had to deal with Speeder Shifter Brightswords in any recent run.
acoustic hare
So yeah, I still hold a point that such feedback as F10'ing encounters that one considers 'broken' is too subjective. Maybe they're just not good enough at the game?
pulsar rover
Game balancing in general is IMO subjective.
honest kernel
I cant deal with speed archers at all 😩
mossy zinc
Well, you don't have a point, though.
- If you run into combinations of Benefits Package that feel broken to you, you should F10 that so we can evaluate it. It's still good to enter it into #hades-feedback if certain recurring combinations on certain enemies feel wrong to you.
—Amir
pulsar rover
Even if you're just not good enough, it's still IMO possible to redesign the encounter to better communicate how to deal with something.
fallow stream
Athena Aid deals with speed archers @honest kernel 🤣
honest kernel
😪
fallow stream
That's my best solution
tidal flame
Don't abuse the feedbacks, but by nature all feedbacks are subjective.
honest kernel
I think rama is bad at dealing with them tbh
fallow stream
Archers in general are annoying with their unlimited range targeting, as are any units which are immune to stunlock (looking at you LONGSPEARS)
mossy zinc
It's not like I F10 just any BP2 room I die to. I'll make a copy of the save file, grind out the fight to see if I can come up with a strategy that deals with the encounter reliably, and if I can't figure anything out, I'll probably send it to Wriste13 so he can take a loot at it. Then we should have some good feedback on what can be done, and what we've tried to deal with them.
trim sigil
Imho if developers consider actually reviewing F10s for "unfair" combos, players could definitely send a few even if their viewpoint is clouded
mossy zinc
Yeah.
trim sigil
After all, the game itself is for wide auditory, not just the top 1% that analyzes game coldly enough
Although obviously their feedback is more objective usually
acoustic hare
Alright, next time I blame my failure on enemy design instead of lack of skill I'll be sure to 
the charp out of that encounter.
gaemsux
/s
trim sigil
fallow stream
I still say this is the best solution I've heard to any problem from @mossy zinc
pulsar rover
Hydra fight was changed not because it was 'too hard', because that was subjective. The complaints about it in general was subjective, that it went on for too long. It was still changed to have fewer iterative attempts needed, however, albeit I think increasing the danger of the last phase by adding more heads.
trim sigil
Yeah, that's also a fair note. Not always it's about too hard, but rather unsatisfying to deal with
mossy zinc
If a situation is difficult but can be solved with various strategies, that can be good difficulty.
pulsar rover
also you don't always have to agree with the devs decision on anything either. IMO I think the hydra skip was fine, and I've felt myself wanting to use that from time to time just to speed up a fight I've already mastered 
tidal flame
I feel like Hydra is one of the faster bossfights
fallow stream
It can be
trim sigil
Depends on amount of aoe and whether you have EM2
pulsar rover
Eh. The first area's boss fight is IMO the fastest if you have a build online by then.
mossy zinc
If it's a "top players will lose a DD against this BP2 combo 9 times out of 10" situation even with the best strategy we can come up with, then that probably needs some balancing because for anyone else it would be even worse lol.
fallow stream
Sometimes all the hydra heads retreat to the furthest corner of lava, or hide under the main head
pulsar rover
Third area boss fight is the second fastest if you've got a crazy stupid build.
tidal flame
Third area boss fight is the second fastest if you've got a crazy stupid build.
Are we playing the same game?
pulsar rover
Yes?
tidal flame
Also please don't take "crazy stupid build" as the rule, they are the outliers
trim sigil
EM3 is faster than regular to me tbh, solely because shield is ass to deal with
pulsar rover
The third area boss fight has taken about 5 seconds before not including invulnerability phases, although this is mostly with Zeus/Posideon builds using triple-hit dash posideon knockback spears.
we're talking about fastest boss kills :p
tidal flame
In term of balancing
fallow stream
5s? Wut.
mossy zinc
Well, this is high heat, not 0 heat speedrun.
fallow stream
I want to see EM3 Elysium boss killed in 5s
tidal flame
Just in this context, Hydra is still faster than EM3 and Hades by a large margin.
fallow stream
Best I have done is 60s, and that was with merciful end
tidal flame
I did it in 58s
mossy zinc
Nighty Night Blizzard Shot would probably do that, too, with enough extra ammo lol.
tidal flame
I mean Furies aee probably the fastest
fallow stream
Easily
mossy zinc
I've definitely seen EM3 go down within seconds with Blizzard Shot in Long Winter or Nighty Night.
tidal flame
Then Hydra, toss up between Champs and Hades
pulsar rover
I've done Extreme Measures 3 Elysium before in very fast, although 5s may be an exaggeration and not including invulnerability times. It's definitely not a normal thing more, more 'perfect build' crazy builds that have effectively infinite DPS.
trim sigil
Hades is definitely the longest, simply because of invincibilities
pulsar rover
yeee
mossy zinc
Yeah, but honestly it's somewhat irrelevant for high heat strategies because you're not getting any build like that lol.
trim sigil
Well, if taking effective fight time (when you actually are attacked), then the tables turn a lot
mossy zinc
Megaera has the least HP, so she'd be the fastest to kill if you're disregarding evading attacks from her.
trim sigil
But for the most part all stays the same ig, furies < hydra < heroes ~= hades
pulsar rover
I think Zeus + Posideon Duo is possibly the theoretically highest DPS on a spear triple-hit dash build. I'm unsure exactly how it measures up to a similar artemis crit build. Also the exagryph fourth aspect might hit faster? ...or maybe chiron special, eh.
fallow stream
Meg gives you the most opportunity to deflect projectiles back at her though
Which is why she can be killed so fast
tidal flame
Hunter Dash Deadly Strike Spreadfire can probably be faster?
trim sigil
Chiron special interacts with lightning in a weird way, seems like far from all arrows actually proc it
mossy zinc
@tidal flame on Hestia because why not lol.
trim sigil
Ye figured, ty
mossy zinc
Free reloads while waiting for invulnerability.
tidal flame
I'm not sure if you are sarcastic but Spreadfire Hestia is terrible
tidal flame
Becuase you don't reload with SF
You fire all the bullets you have by dash spam
Also range difference between empowered shot and reduced shotgun blast
mossy zinc
Just use the Empowered Shot like a shotgun.
That's a 200 base damage Dash-Strike for the first shot instead of 100.
There's plenty of downtime in fights for reloads.
tidal flame
You can do that hassle free with Zag Rail
fallow stream
@mossy zinc what are you hoping for when they release 4th fist aspect?
mossy zinc
Speaking of hassle-free things I can do: 2x40+.
fallow stream
I'm trying to figure out what they might do
mossy zinc
I don't know, I'm just letting them surprise me.
fallow stream
I think it might be something like empowered dash strikes
mossy zinc
Hopefully some girl power.
trim sigil
inb4 red cyclone spin2win move
mossy zinc
Bull charge.
tidal flame
Probably a charged punch
mossy zinc
"Run at your enemy and headbutt them for 200 base damage!"
trim sigil
Falcon
PUUuunch
tidal flame
Your combo ends what a mega punch
trim sigil
Also tbf bull charge is basically poseidon aid
fallow stream
Except for the capability it has to fly you to Styx immediately
tidal flame
Your dama instances have 1% chance of insta killing enemies
mossy zinc
Now excuse me while I clear 41 heat with my day 1 attempt #3 Beowulf.
tidal flame
How OP would that be
tidal flame
I intend to make it work for bosses xD
mossy zinc
I have no idea why Beowulf with Charged Flight is Hestia with a bunch of damage boons and without reloads, but I'll take it.
tidal flame
Has a more accurate Ricochet Fire built in, too
tidal flame
I tried that built once after seeing it on 50
It feels more akin to a GY Special build
acoustic hare
Yeah that looks like a good chamber alright. Almost a dozen of those at the same time without JS.
https://i.vgy.me/Rcl3lb.jpg
mossy zinc
Maybe shooting yourself in the foot with DC2 on 32 heat.
Elysium. Let's see if I can no-hit the champions again only to die to Vermin in the first tunnel.
fallow stream
If any of you like my suggestions for quake cutter in feedback, please upvote (or downvote).
But that's basically a dead hammer, would love to see it changed to something more useful
acoustic hare
It just keeps happening. Again, no Jury Summons.
fallow stream
That's the git gud room 🤣
static plover
Nah that's the final boss now 
fallow stream
"I heard you don't like taking Athena boons, so we gave you projectiles with faster projectiles so you can die while you die"
static plover
But in all seriousness I would F10 that combo
mossy zinc
Can you back up the temp save from that one? I'd like to give that one a try.
fallow stream
Speedy + seeker would be worse, imo
static plover
I prefer crying while i die thankyou very much
mossy zinc
Ah okay, then nevermind. Too late now.
acoustic hare
** **Used Poseidon's Aid at Lernie
** **Got stuck in the stone on the arena and wasted the Call
mossy zinc
Look at the bright side: you didn't get killed by projectiles from off-screen.
acoustic hare
Instead, I got killed by waves that the heads launch the second they spawn.
Well, time to go and get some more questionably broken chambers.
mossy zinc
You'd have far less trouble with them without DC2.
acoustic hare
Took that one off already.
Good news. Thanks to that death, I unlocked an Ambrosia gift for Artemis.
trim sigil
What is the reward for favoring gods?
acoustic hare
For some reason, F10 doesn't work for me. It refuses to make screenshots, and it's just black screen.
Welp, no reporting 'broken' combos for me.
trim sigil
Tab out and find the second hades tab
For some reason report window is separate from game client
Found that out the hard way
acoustic hare
Nono, it's black screen for the report window itself, like, in the place where the screenshot should normally be.
acoustic hare
But anyway, that's what I wanted to send.
should have just kept dashing around duh
https://i.vgy.me/zBYUBq.jpg
mossy zinc
Could have been worse. Could have been super elites in Erebus.
Only three more to go.
I skipped 32 heat with Aegis.
acoustic hare
Congrats
acoustic hare
That makes me think that perhaps one day, I'll manage to beat my own 32.
mossy zinc
Sure you will!
What pacts are you running? And what's the strategy? Maybe I can help out.
acoustic hare
It doesn't mean that attempts aren't frustrating as hell
mossy zinc
Was too busy with my own run earlier to say anything but "don't use DC2" lol.
royal wagon
what kind of strat do you use for a high heat fists run? I havent turned up the heat myself much yet but curious about whats viable
mossy zinc
Divine Strike > Hunter Dash > Support Fire + Deadly Reversal.
Curse of Agony > Divine Dash > Merciful End.
royal wagon
is zeus attack viable at all? I've had a few runs with that which seem interesting
acoustic hare
Here's what I currently have.
It's kinda hard to get a strategy when you're forced to use what you get and when RNG can straight up refuse to give you stuff you want.
mossy zinc
Lightning Strike > Heartbreak Flourish (only on Demeter Aspect) > any good call + Smoldering Air
Heartbreak Strike > Zeus' Aid > Smoldering Air
Guan Yu, yes?
Does it have to be Guan Yu?
acoustic hare
Does it have to be Guan Yu?
It doesn't necessarily *have* to be Guan Yu (can be Hades) but I want totorture myselfget my first 32 Heat with this Spear.
For the memes.
mossy zinc
I'd try HL3 LC4 CF1 EM2 BP2 MM UC FO2 HS TD2.
acoustic hare
TD2? I only managed to beat TD1 three times on Heat 10 or something.
mossy zinc
And use Stubborn Defiance.
Hmm.
I guess TD1, then, and put the 3 points into HL and CF instead.
trim sigil
I wonder why people don't love DC 
So far the only 3 things that can explain it are skulls, armored enemies with BP and vermins
Well, also some weapon aspects but eeh
acoustic hare
Still can't use F10 so sharing it here:
https://i.vgy.me/QZmDcM.jpg
tidal flame
DC on bow is a nightmare
mossy zinc
Same reason you'd want to avoid JS and CP. Everything takes longer to kill.
trim sigil
I guess that part is also true
Altho both of these seem to be more crucial on timer than DC
JS because spawning animations and CP because bosses
mossy zinc
DC2 gives everything invincibility for 2 hits.
The room clearing with CP is worse than the boss fights.
trim sigil
It is indeed
Lesser of two evils at times
(but also may be a reason elysium gets insufferable)
mossy zinc
And JS isn't about animations but simply that a lot more enemies means a lot more HP to go through and a lot more attacks to evade.
mossy zinc
@acoustic hare I would start with the Eternal Rose in Tartarus and aim for Heartbreak Flourish. Aim to get Divine Dash, any boon from Lord Zeus (ideally the Call), and a good Call in Tartarus. If you don't have Divine Dash after Tartarus, take the Owl Pendant in Asphodel and get Divine Dash. If you already have the Dash, take the Thunder Signet so that you can make Smoldering Air happen (requires any core boons from Lady Aphrodite + Lord Zeus + any Call).
That would be my go-to strategy for Guan Yu Aspect on high heat.
If the Heartbreak Flourish is common or rare, get some poms on it during your run until about Lv.5 or whatever you notice you need to kill some enemies in one less shot. If it's epic, you can skip poms more often for other rewards.
Sell any boons from gods you don't care for in your build after Tartarus, so that you make that slot in the god pool random again. Lets you pick up something better that has better synergy for your build.
Either that or adjust the build accordingly.
But Divine Dash is definitely highly recommended to make your top priority after getting Heartbreak Flourish. It just makes everything a lot easier.
And a Special build doesn't require Hunter Dash or any particular Attack boon, so you can just focus on safety for your dash and a strong Call—ideally with Smoldering Air for i-frames + burst damage every 5 seconds.
acoustic hare
Thanks!
mossy zinc
Also, take Stygian Soul so you can just apply Boiling Blood whenever you want (especially vs bosses).
I'd also take the rare+ and epic+ mirror talents.
There are various strategies that can work, though. That's just what I would do.
fallow stream
DC on bow is a nightmare
I don't see how. Special attack actually takes care of DC rather easily, for multiple enemies at a time no matter what bow you use
tidal flame
It's doable
Just not something I want to go through
Just try it
Without Twinshot
DC on bow (here should really specify Zag Bow, mb) is bad for the same reason Hestia runs don't use DC
Look at wriste 48 heat run
Or the 50 heat run with chaos shield
Wriste could strip dc shield with special
He opted not to. 50 heat run with charged flight can strip dc shield with bullrush, again, Horheristo opted not to.
Haelian 48 heat run seeded for Twinshot specifically to strip shields while neglecting special
So no, I disagree with "Special attack actually takes care of DC rather easily"
It doesn't.
mossy zinc
I actually used to think DC was one of the easiest options when I first started using the Pact of Punishment. By now I think it's one of the worst lol.
I'll consider RI3 before I'll consider DC2.
Each rank gives your foes 1 Shielded Health, which makes them ignore an instance of damage.
The description is way too innocent sounding.
It should be: "Hades but every enemy has Acorn."
acoustic hare
Misclicked L2 instead of R2 two times in Asphodel and wasted two Megaera summons.
mossy zinc
Yikes.
tidal flame
I see that you have read the #h1-high-heat-strategies compendium as well.
mossy zinc
FWIW when I cleared 41 Heat with Hestia, I got a DD from Lady Athena when I was using SD just before Hydra, then after I killed the Hydra I died in the magma to heal some 10~20 HP with SD . . . except I had already used my SD in the fight, so my DD went poof for absolutely no reason.
But I still won that run.
Mistakes will be made.
mossy zinc
No, the first time I did that without a DD. So I just ended the run preemptively.
This time I came prepared!
tidal flame
Brilliant, poster child play of #h1-high-heat-strategies
tidal flame
Everyone on this channel seems to have galactic size brain
mossy zinc
Saw the icon, suicided because obviously that was my SD icon, what else could be there.
tidal flame
light sedge
@mossy zinc I disagree with nerfing Charged Flight, I think a big part in you clearing so fast on 41 is Hydraulic Might, which looks like you got pretty early on
mossy zinc
I was doing 488 damage in Tartarus without Hydraulic Might.
With a rare Heartbreak Flourish.
No poms.
light sedge
You can do that EZ with other things
mossy zinc
No you can't?
light sedge
And if you nerf Beos' base special damage, it won't be worth using with anything else but Charged Flight
Arthur, Rama, Hestia?
tidal flame
GY Charged Skewer can do that, too
mossy zinc
Charged Skewer adds +200% damage, not +300%.
tidal flame
You can still hit 400 damage with skewer and Heartbreak
light sedge
And that pierces however many enemies you want, and don't have to wait for the return to shoot again
tidal flame
Also you have like one run on Charged Flight
mossy zinc
Hestia doesn't have 1 single hammer that adds ridiculous damage compared to every other option and requires reloading.
And?
tidal flame
Don't you think that a bit hasty
mossy zinc
I did a handful of attempts without using the weapon before and cleared 41 Heat easily in record time.
tidal flame
That's kinda what jumping to conclusions means
mossy zinc
No, it isn't. It was incredibly easy, and it shouldn't be.
tidal flame
So if it's easy for you then we should make it harder for everyone?
Sample size = 1
I can't in good conscience say that's warranted.
mossy zinc
?
light sedge
It is a hasty conclusion, you've had a good run with nice boons, I wouldn't say it's op when compared with other aspects.
mossy zinc
I'm amazed that you're all telling me what mattered in my run without even seeing it.
light sedge
Battle Rage, Hydraulic Might, Heartbreak Flourish, Charged Flight, well ofc it was op, you got the perfect combo for it
I've had a similar run, so I've seen what you're talking about
tidal flame
Well I ran Charged Flight yesterday and find the movement clunky, sure I did a lot of damage and enemies do die in 1 or 2 huts but I died in Elysium since I'm not used to the movement. But I don't go ask for a buff in term of movement just off one game. But you are entitled to your feedbacks. We can move on.
light sedge
Based on your logic, this pic should render a big nerf to Arthur no? https://imgur.com/a/u9qzRch
light sedge
Please do lol
light sedge
It's was the perfect combo of stuffs
cyan stag
It’s kinda unsatisfying that the bigger number isn’t pictured as, you know, bigger.
light sedge
It was, but by the time I got the screenshot it was dimming
Here's the build if you wanna go for it: https://imgur.com/a/60emPFn
tidal flame
The Breaching Slash did the heavy lifting in that number imo
light sedge
Ya, I wish you could pin more things hah
severe vector
I feel like charged flight is bugged because I think the timing for the hold and released is with the original shield’s special timing aka fast and not Beowulf’s special timing which is slow. If you make it so you gotta hold and still have the Beowulf’s original special lag added to it, it will quickly become balanced no matter how much damage it did.
If you tap special for a quick release you are already throwing it out way faster than usual for some additional damage, and if you throw it out at the same timing as a hammerless special it’s already either charged to full or at least 300%.
I’m okay with it being OP though, because it’s fun and I can’t find myself liking the intended play styles of both Rama and Beowulf
acoustic hare
** **Theseus hits me
** **Procs SD and Curse of Vengeance
** **He is already dead (only had one hit left to die)
** **Touch of Styx Dark heals me to 80% HP
Feels refreshing to finally get a relatively good run. 
severe vector
Free heals hell yea
mossy zinc
Yeah, SD is really strong if you're comfortable in boss fights, and you don't have to spend money on healing throughout the run or to get DDs back.
acoustic hare
Got the Sack from the second chamber and have 4:39 left.
could it be?
trim sigil
I am in that weird state of "would want DD on hades but SD everywhere else" 
Hence running SD and praying for pattie + 2sack
acoustic hare
First time reaching Hades on 32
clever otter
🙏 good luck
acoustic hare
4.5 minutes? With no Smoldering Air? With no Divine Dash?
Inhale, exhale
honest kernel
you can do it!
trim sigil
Tbh one time i had a choice for smoldering air i had aphrodite's aid, so painful
trim sigil
brbrbrbrbruh
acoustic hare
lost SD
trim sigil
The run just made a wheelie on you
honest kernel
😔
acoustic hare
Maybe try and save the seed?
honest kernel
chariot is truly the worst summon
acoustic hare
=\
honest kernel
u can do that ye
trim sigil
Rest in pieces 
acoustic hare
I had Unhealthy Fixation so the Chariot could have been turned friendly for a while.
That didn't happen.
severe vector
His summons are like 30% of the reasons why I try to pick much as many ways to do armour damage as possible :<
trim sigil
His summons are like 30% of the reasons why I try to pick much as many ways to do armour damage as possible :<
that and elysium existence
so true
Even picked armor piercing over Cruel Thrust, like cmon
acoustic hare
I could have tried and picked the Anvil to switch Quick Spin to anti-armor but I was too scared of losing Charged Skewer.
mossy zinc
Yeah, more practice will definitely help with that.
I'm happy you made it that far, though. Looks like the strategy change wasn't for nothing.
acoustic hare
That's true. Surprised by the performance at TD2
mossy zinc
And not getting Smoldering Air is honestly expected with UC. It's still very worth going for it, though.
The core of the build is really just the Flourish and Charged Skewer.
That's what allows you to go for Divine Dash and Smoldering Air (especially because you already have 1 boon from Lady Aphrodite).
royal wagon
is high heat hestia pretty much just hunter dash > deadly strike > aphro stuff > heart rend?
mossy zinc
You don't need Hunter Dash.
royal wagon
ah so deadly strike > passion dash > heart rend? Or I guess Artemis/Athena could work too
mossy zinc
Heartbreak Strike and Deadly Strike are both good.
Duo Boon isn't actually necessary for Hestia.
But you don't want to run JS CP or DC.
mossy zinc
Well, even with good hammers. Piercing Shot and Explosive Shot are your best picks.
To help with that.
royal wagon
got it. I just did my firsts Hestia run and it was surprisingly fun, if not my fastest. Trying to figure out what weapon I want to take into higher heats
mossy zinc
This is what I used for Hestia just today.
Your Call will be essentially irrelevant unless you get Smoldering Air because Hestia builds gauge veeeeery slowly.
royal wagon
ya I didnt even have a call in my run just now
mossy zinc
That's why I was trying to get Smoldering Air in every run (and why I had Zeus' Aid in that clear). But I didn't end up getting it in most of them lol.
Still worth going for.
royal wagon
good to know, thanks!
mossy zinc
@tidal flame also used Curse of Agony very effectively with Hestia, but you'll have to ask him what to look for in your build with that. I've no experience with it.
royal wagon
my last run was curse of agony/impending doom/merciful end, it was kind of dumb and didn't work very well but I was also only on 5 heat lol
tidal flame
Yeah I would not recommend Doom Hestia at anything below 32 heat to be honest. The main gimmick of that build to to bypass DC shield, provide a slightly more consistent access to damage, as well as avoid overkilling. It's meant to be a "tech," not an optimal build. For Hestia in general just stick with tried and true builds such as Heartbreak/Deadly Strike, etc.
And yeah, Hunter Dash Hestia is fun to use, but not needed. I like it because it lets my empowered shot hit for 300 each, not including whatever buff you can add on top of your attack as well.
zinc scarab
Would hestia be good with like, dio dash and sisyphus shackle?
I know it sounds weird
tidal flame
Sisyphus Shackle is really good on Hestia
The thing is how are you going to carry that to Elysium or Styx?
I can't survive without Acorn so ¯_(ツ)_/¯
zinc scarab
I’m assuming by elysium and styx you should probably have picked up at least SOME sort of attack boon
but maybe that’s an unfair assumption
zinc scarab
Mostly just thinking dio may let you bypass dc
tidal flame
I still think you can do better just forcing a God for consistency, but I wish you can hold on to Shackle some how. It's fun to used for sure
zinc scarab
Unfortunately dio dash is not great
tidal flame
maybe divine dash?
zinc scarab
Kind of wish it just auto targeted the nearest thing (like zeus dash does)
Maybe? Dashing through enemies would at least let you brush off 1 heart
What about ares dash?
tidal flame
yeah that might work
it's hard to say without testing
I wonder how Rama attack build would fare against DC2
your special strips some DC
and shared suffering is actually multi hit
zinc scarab
The problem I found myself having is that the rama curse doesn’t last very long at all
You can try spreading it to the room, but you realistically can only spread to like 2-3 targets, and weave in 1-2 attacks before it falls off
alpine egret
first 32 heat run done! Malphon first aspect. arty atk lv3. 1atk and 1 backstab up from chaos. sturdy during atk, support fire. had no hermes dodge even but lambent plume gave 20.4% dodge + 15% dodge of malphon + 50% dodge for 2s after near hit = 85,4% dodge most of time. Had no useful hammer upgrade (dash atk vs armor).I vote for malphon first aspect if you havent cleared 32 yet. I failed with spear, sword and even shield.
finally ||last statue of skelly|| revealed XD
zinc scarab
Congrats! Yeah Malphon is a great and well balanced weapon
alpine egret
tbh...I rly hope for demeter rework and last aspect to kick ass...for casting sword is better than the magnet gloves and demeter is meh...I only like first aspect sadly...
how does black shawl (trinket) and fiery presence (first reverse mirror upgrade) work exactly? or what exactly is an undamaged foe? does "damage control" pact and/or armor count as damaged? or do you have the dmg boost till enemy looses first hp?
zinc scarab
Demeter aspect is really strong! And the talos aspect needs a bit of practice to be comfortable with, but offers a sizable damage buff
You have the damage buff until the enemy loses the first bit of armor or health they have.
alpine egret
40% more cast dmg is insane and the magnet special...saw a guy do heat 42 with only that atk...and demeter I only wish it had more atks on special or only 9 hits needed to activate
had arty lv3 epic on demeter and still the special didnt kick in as I thought
You have the damage buff until the enemy loses the first bit of armor or health they have.
@zinc scarab ty
zinc scarab
I’m not the person to talk to for all things fist-related, but I believe the general consensus is to aim for aphrodite on special. Maybe demeter or athena too
As for talos, it also increases attack damage by 40%, which is nice for the damage buff alone
alpine egret
aphro caus most % dmg increase? other 2 have less dmg and gettin chill on enemy with special...dunno..slow
talos only %dmg boost for cast and the special, not?
dunno if there are any other "magnetic attacks" ingame
zinc scarab
For demeter fists, aphrodite has the highest increase to special damage. I believe that after Poseidon, Demeter and Athena have the next highest damage. Neither is anywhere close to Aphrodite, but both are decent pickups
Talos gives +40% attack and cast damage against enemies hit by your special
alpine egret
saw a almost 40% dmg difference in aphro to demeter epic special buff. too much. think demeter should have more...
Talos gives +40% attack and cast damage against enemies hit by your special
@zinc scarab no way! srsly?
yea, it says so at magnetic cutter...guess if you read...you are smarter lol
didnt kno lol...
zinc scarab
Lol, it’s a nice buff and it helps talos stay more viable
alpine egret
wtf...how could I miss that...will change my plastyle next run with them...omg so bad...
I either went in and bursted my casts out, or I spammed special...both playstlyles had like 0 benefit from magnetic cutter XD
the debuff is active with the ranged magnetic attack of special or after you hit the uppercut?
cyan stag
The magnetic draw applies the debuff. You can cancel out of the uppercut and cast or attack immediately.
alpine egret
nice nice! I like to cancel the upper but had no clue that this is a thing. cool.
zinc scarab
Yep, time for your 6x40
tidal flame
Lol I'm not that good
I struggled to get 42
Not sure if I want to do another
Time will tell
daring hedge
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/654076105321480226/732373962650288168/20200713181205_1.jpg first hades aspect 42 attempt of the day successful... and it was chill+exposed again somehow
tidal flame
Who nees rare or epic boons anyway
tidal flame
Also 2 charge on Acorn 👀
daring hedge
both the EM3 champs and the hades fight went very smoothly
didn't come close to losing SD on champs, it was wild
tidal flame
Vid me please. Hope you recorded that
daring hedge
i got you 
daring hedge
yeah, i haven't been around as much recently but when i have checked in it seems like a lot more people are clearing 40+ which is cool
zinc scarab
Quick question, Explosive Fire or Piercing Shot on Hestia?
tidal flame
Piercing
tidal flame
Someone is asking for bow buff. While I don't agree with the feedback I'm so tempted to updoot it cause buff is nice
frail crane
@mossy zinc how's that for a clear of your challenge?
zinc scarab
That build looks fun ngl swan
Also, @tidal flame , more bow buff feedback mysteriously showed up in the feedback channel. No idea how...
tidal flame
I'm just kidding. Good job!
frail crane
the duration of the charm was just right so that I could nearly perma-charm hades
letting Theseus kill Asterius was the highlight of the run though
tidal flame
I think 5 - 10 damage bonus to dash strike would go a long way
But that's kinda asking too much. I'm happy with the way bow is but would never mind if it gets some love
zinc scarab
I was about to add some more feedback on the dash strike lol
daring hedge
yeah, i agree with your feedback fire. while i think bow is plenty usable now even at high heat, the balance between its strength at base and its strength on notably good attack hammers feels off/skewed. much more so than other weapons, i'd say
without good hammers by elysium, it can feel like a slog sometimes
even while getting all dash-strike power shots off
zinc scarab
Exactly, the bow is by no means unusable or terrible, but without Twin Shot (or Triple Shot maybe), it feels incredibly painful even with good play
With Elysium being the length it is (for various reasons), it's particularly noticable.
daring hedge
yeah, a high heat run where AP denies you any good bow attack hammers can make TD2 elysium feel insurmountable, like an impending defeat long before you've actually lost the run
it's a bad feeling
zinc scarab
That's why I just want a shift in power. I'm fine with twin shot getting a nerf (most likely to damage as something like charge time would make it unusable), if it means bow itself becomes more capable without it.
daring hedge
definitely, i would be happy with a tradeoff balancing decision like that
zinc scarab
Triple already kinda has a punishment of 0 range for triple damage
tidal flame
Which is a good thing imo
zinc scarab
Yeah, that being said I'd also be fine with a small nerf to Triple if it meant the additional arrows had a tighter spread
Imagine an almost shotgun-like triple, with slightly lower damage
tidal flame
Although tbh triple on Rama is kinda rough to go point blank
Ik we are talking Zag rail
But does Rama triple have a wider spread?
zinc scarab
We're talking zag bow mr. "I main bow and am good at the game"
I believe Rama triple has a normal spread
tidal flame
hollow lynx
the weekly challenge's LC3 + HL1 is kinda kicking my butt lol
frail crane
I cheesed it with GY + skelly
daring hedge
@tidal flame vid's up in #self-promotion
zinc scarab
I'm still happy with the fact that this is the easier version
tidal flame
Love ya
tidal flame
Hmm I don't think you actually did this run @daring hedge
You didn't whiff your Meg at champ fight, what did you do to the real Tail?
Also Asterius and Theseus dying at the same time is 👌
daring hedge
lol
right? that was so satisfying
and shout out to the single support fire arrow shooting backwards as the fight ended
tidal flame
As always, what a sick Dad fight
Although I do need to ask
What's is your approach if he summons Chariots?
Play hide and seek?
daring hedge
oh yeah with chariots it's basically
pray they don't eat all my acorn charges
and hope i can just damage them down fast enough
getting just two louts for his summons this run was really nice. one of the easiest possibilities imo
honest kernel
honest kernel
I have exactly zero interest in pushing this any further than 32, but I'd have to say either stacking backstabs (which didn't actually help that much against Dad, he tends to turn to face Zag at the end of most of his attacks) or Heart Rend and Attack damage is the way to go.
It beat 32 Heat.
I declare it Good™️.
Closest I came to hitting the timer was 24 seconds and change after killing Theseus.
Piercing Fire makes Greatshields a joke, I'm having trouble thinking of what the best two-hammer combo is (I'm a fan of Concentrated Beam and Flash Fire, though).
(I didn't have Piercing Fire this attempt, just commenting).
honest kernel
Back to 15 Heat for me.
trim sigil
Hades is smth special
Did 32 heat run and it was somewhat (?) manageable, then switched a weapon and lost 1 heat run
Would LC 4 be a decent way to train consistent gameplay (dodging everything as much as possible)?
tidal flame
Imo, no
I use SD and LC4
Since I heal after every room I play really loosey goosey
Because I intentionally die once every room
So it's not good to reinforce dodging xD
trim sigil
Well, what if LC4 and DD?
trim sigil
(obviously SD will carry hard until hades smashes smug zag across the snow)
Also sure 
tidal flame
God speed brother
trim sigil
Would rather god dashes, excessive speed feels terrible to utilize
Probably part of a reason why zag blade is so wack
frail crane
:D
autumn sable
@tidal flame i'd say even an attack build Rama fares very well against DC2
the shared suffering also counts as a multihit
tidal flame
yeah that's erm that's what I said
although on the flip side, if you applied shared suffering already
the DC shield is gone xD
autumn sable
i was going to point out it doesn't matter but it actually does
cause sometiimes you only mark with 1 special arrow
and you attack will break DC shield and deal a small amount of armor/health damage
it's something, i guess
I can't read, obviously
zinc scarab
I feel like the Chaos Egg actively lowers your chance for Chaos gates
trim sigil
Definitely not, but definitely doesn't raise them either, sadly
hollow lynx
chaos takes note of that and hides their gates bc its funny joke
every copy of hades is personalized
trim sigil
Would give away no dmg bonus for guaranteed gate per zone ngl
zinc scarab
I'd rather give away the rarity increase
trim sigil
Either works ig
autumn sable
@daring hedge I see all those failed runs at Hades really paid off
daring hedge
lol they really did
autumn sable
Silky smooth Hades fight
daring hedge
first spear run of the day and all the muscle memory kicked in no sweat anyway
zinc scarab
Side note, what does everyone think is the hardest God for Theseus to recieve help from?
tidal flame
ares demter aphrodite
trim sigil
I don't see a major difference ngl, all of them occasionally slap me in the nuts
zinc scarab
I'd probably say aphrodite > ares > all
trim sigil
Altho ares and demeter being higher there is relatable
zinc scarab
I always found demeter really easy
trim sigil
aphro is also yikes yeah
zinc scarab
Zeus can be a pain with FO2 however
hollow lynx
ares, athena, and aphrodite annoyingly follow you everywhere
trim sigil
aphro is pretty much "hf not moving under theseus spear"
acoustic hare
He summoned the Chariot again. Again!
mossy zinc
Use the pillars/rocks, and don't get hit. 
acoustic hare
I guess it's a little too late at this point. One hit - and I'm dead, and he only just started the second phase.
mossy zinc
Also dash through them rather than away.
No-hitting the second phase is doable. Don't give up!
acoustic hare
Got stupidly caught two times by casts and lost the shield. Was surprised that the following spin attack didn't oneshot me.
inhale, exhale
mossy zinc
If you die, pause the game.
And back up your temp save, so you can practice the fight.
acoustic hare
Okay, didn't believe that the Call gives oi-frames so decided to try this on the cast that was flying at me, despite the fact that I'm one hit from death.
It does give the Oi-Frames.
mossy zinc
acoustic hare
Still alive, still going.
tidal flame
Then erm
mossy zinc
Of course! I abuse that a lot lol.
tidal flame
Stop typing and kilm him?
mossy zinc
It's okay to pause and collect your thoughts and calm down.
acoustic hare
Dang, misplaced my dash on the 360 lazer.
If you die, pause the game.
And back up your temp save, so you can practice the fight.
Does this count as savescumming though?
mossy zinc
Yeah, it's just to practice the fight.
You can practice the fight for as many hours as you like that way.
tidal flame
Or don't, run the whole thing again like the true Dark Souls way
acoustic hare
Or don't, run the whole thing again like the true Dark Souls way
That reminds me (even though it's off-topic) that I still have 1 achievement to get in DS3, and then I'll have all 3 games platinumed.
mossy zinc
I should do that again soon. I got hit a few times in phase 2 after 50% the last time with Beowulf because I didn't account for his speed-up during that part.
acoustic hare
bruh. Tried again from a temporary save and got him.
Feels bad.
He didn't summon Chariot and I didn't get hit as much by casts so I had the Acorn almost for the entirety of the fight.
But nevertheless, gotta try again from the beginning to do it the legit way.
mossy zinc
Yeah.
acoustic hare
Second phase feels easier than the first.
mossy zinc
But the practice save will let you practice the fight a lot, so you can be ready next time!
Hmmm. Second phase after 50% can be very hectic.
mossy zinc
He can also put you in a checkmate with beams, urns, and skulls if you're not careful.
acoustic hare
Right. I probably should have tried to i-frame the beam on the legit attempt by Call.
Or that doesn't work?
mossy zinc
I do that a lot to move into safety.
I'll compile everything I've written on the fight tomorrow.
acoustic hare
Zagreus just said: "Gods grant me a fast Satyr Sack"
I sure hope they will.
fallow stream
It's weird when heat 20 feels like a walk in the park
You get so used to playing 30-40 heat, you forget why it was so hard to clear the 1st time at heat 0
foggy ruin
Basically how I felt after I took a break getting 32 heat on the other weapons and just finish all the bounties first.
royal wagon
what are good 16 heat setups? Going to try zeus chaos shield I think
royal wagon
hm, okay cool. I haven't touched EM yet so maybe I'll try that at lower heat first
thanks!
fallow stream
In my opinion, you should always be playing on FO2
You just get used to it, and that's the normal speed of the game in your mind
@royal wagon if you've never used EM, Then I recommend not going to EM3 for now.
Theseus and Asterius are significantly more difficult on EM3
royal wagon
that makes sense, Ill throw on FO2 as I'm grinding some titan blood and get comfortable with it and go from there
royal wagon
didnt learn a lot from my first EM2 run lol https://imgur.com/czLZKNu
teal ibex
Any tips for getting consistent speeds? First two biomes aren't an issue, but I've kept away from FO because Elysium seems to get me every time I try it there. The boss fight on EM3 is part of the issue, but stupid shields slow me down much of the time even with decent builds (perhaps they aren't fast builds?)
tidal flame
Elysium is the largest choke, that's not you.
My advice is don't greed and take every free room
So always take mid shop
As for boss fights, well all I can say is practice more.
If you are not on Hard Labor, you can facetank a bit
I think a good boss fight is around 1min30s
mossy zinc
Basically how I felt after I took a break getting 32 heat on the other weapons and just finish all the bounties first.
I'm just finishing the bounties doing 40+ now lol.
tidal flame
So if you don't have at least that going into boss, your problem is your room clear speed
teal ibex
I'm probably too cautious in boss fight. Had some nasty run-ins with EM3 bombs, and even with divine dash not sure when it deflects them and when they explode in my face
I'm definitely greedy though, so will try to ease off and not be overly optimistic on time and see how that goes
covert mantle
Face-tanking is my Bread and butter
I know it'll never work on high heats though
Huhu
mossy zinc
@teal ibex my tip is watch some speedruns for whatever weapon you're struggling with. You can pick up a lot from that.
And don't be hesitant to use your summons to speed up Elysium in particular.
You don't need to rush through Tartarus or Asphodel if you're not speedrunning, so pick up all the obol troves you see there.
teal ibex
Thanks, these are all helpful tips
mossy zinc
Also, maybe record your own gameplay and watch that for where you waste time.
honest charm
I'm gonna be doing RI4 boonless runs for a while now
w/ zag sword
mossy zinc
I'll probably do RI4 40 Heat before that, but boonless sounds interesting.
Right now I'm getting all aspects to 41.
Er. All weapons.
Not all aspects lol.
zinc scarab
My key tactic on high heat is dying. Gets me to the next run faster.
mossy zinc
That's the solution for TD2.
zinc scarab
And dammit don't shift the goalpost on heat just as I'm finishing my 6x32
honest kernel
Used to be a player here who did 32 Heat with all Aspects.
covert mantle
My key tactic on high heat is dying. Gets me to the next run faster.
Pro gamer moves
mossy zinc
It just takes too much time to do all aspects. I'd rather do higher heat when I'm done with 41 for all weapons lol.
trim sigil
Can't run out of time in elysium if you roast yourself in asphodel faster
daring hedge
i do think any aspect is plenty viable at 32, doing all at that level doesn't sound so bad
40+ for all aspects though, might take some more convincing for me to actually consider lol
mossy zinc
32 is chill.
daring hedge
true though
daring hedge
as coined by krasher once, ambien%
zinc scarab
These people. Meanwhile I'm still struggling to hit 32 on all weapons
zinc scarab
Just bow left!
trim sigil
I lucked out one 32 run on nemesis, so you can do the rest 
zinc scarab
Nemesis is definitely my most comfortable weapon at the moment
daring hedge
you can do it sentiment paired with a madeline emoji... my heart
trim sigil
Same tbh, that damage boost and moveset is pretty comfy
Time to become one-trick and grind 50+ with it
daring hedge
this is very nearly the path i could take with hades aspect
trim sigil
Double Edge is pretty nuts, Cruel Thrust is adding salt to the enemy injuries
zinc scarab
Flurry Slash is nice, Hoarding Slash is not as good as you'd think
Shadow Slash is just nice bonus damage
trim sigil
Breaching Armor to make lategame enemies not as crushing is solid
trim sigil
Wave one is... eeh, but cuts DC fairly well ig
Cursed Blade is indeed cursed
trim sigil
I'd genuinely take anything but World Splitter over Snap Nova
zinc scarab
Snap nova just feels so janky
And that's coming from someone who likes World Splitter
mossy zinc
These people. Meanwhile I'm still struggling to hit 32 on all weapons
I've actually been using seeds lately to speed things up. And if you can play Hestia on 40+, you can play Beowulf with Charged Flight or Guan Yu with Charged Throw. There's barely any difference in playstyle or build.
Also makes the boss fights so much easier because of the range you have.
Melee is the difficult part.
zinc scarab
Yeah the main reason I don't plan to go much higher than say 40-ish heat is that things like RI and AP2 make seeding almost necessary
mossy zinc
I only do AP1.