Is it?
#h1-high-heat-strategies
mossy zinc
autumn sable
yeah, is this all based on the wiki?
cause I think some of these values are not quite updated
mossy zinc
I just gloss over it every time I see it. 
autumn sable
but I don't necessarily know since I don't pay enough attention
mossy zinc
I checked the patch notes for any changes. Hmm.
autumn sable
poseidon seems like it should be slightly higher
hallow stream
I thought I remembered it being higher than 20% and the wiki confirmed my suspicion - I can figure it out though
autumn sable
should be a simple fix if we just look at them in-game
if there even is anything to change
mossy zinc
Oh it is 35% on the wiki. I thought 20% for some reason.
hallow stream
yeah it's currently 35%
just checked
but that is higher than before I think, right?
or maybe it's always been 35%. didn't use it enough to remember
hallow stream
ohh right
mossy zinc
Better than Demeter's Aid. I don't know if the numbers on the wiki are right for that because that is really low damage.
I guess the AOE is wide, though.
autumn sable
maybe they feel the status effect + T2 demeter stuff is enough to make up
mossy zinc
Poseidon's Aid is based on 2 hits per call, but potentially you can hit more or less often. So it's a rough average. 2 seems to be what I get consistently, though, on single targets.
autumn sable
@hallow stream nice fight
autumn sable
do you though?
hallow stream
it's a haunting question
mossy zinc
Yes, you do. 38-Heat Divine-Strike-only Challenge.
hallow stream
that's definitely for another time
mossy zinc
This time without a Call.
hallow stream
I'm a little disappointed in how the fight turned out aesthetically though
it looks like I'm just dashing/attacking wildly
autumn sable
yeah, your Hestia fight does look smoother for whatever reason
hallow stream
even though this fight was way harder lol
for the hestia fight you can see the individual parts more clearly
with the fists it's basically just "anyway I started blasting"
even though it's pretty precise
mossy zinc
Not to me. I've been practicing the same fight, so I see what you're doing.
hallow stream
well yeah - what I mean is, aside from a couple insane people, it looks like a huge mess
hallow stream
drew
autumn sable
the write up is quite nice
hallow stream
not sure who reads them, but I tried lol
anyway, now to take my knowledge to actual high heat runs
enough science for a lifetime
autumn sable
til they change the Hades fight in 1.0
hallow stream
I'll definitely sue
mossy zinc
The only science you need to know is slap Dionysus' Aid or Poseidon's Aid on your build.
I call them the Theory of AOE Call and the Theory of Single-Target Call respectively.
hallow stream
I expect a 25 page research paper with citations and footnotes
static plover
Only 25 pages? š
hallow stream
well, the study itself will be around 50 pages
autumn sable
Aggy, can you throw a pin in that, please and thanks
hallow stream
that's just the accompanying paper
honest kernel
I almost did 38 with rama and then choked at hades...gamer pain
the laser clipped the pillar tho that was kinda whack
mossy zinc
Been working on making Tempest Strike work, but the lack of Deflect makes it difficult lol.
hallow stream
how is that supposed to work
mossy zinc
Duo with Lord Zeus and get all the t2 boons from Lord Poseidon.
And t3 and whatever. Just all the boons lol.
hallow stream
sea storm is always fun to play
mossy zinc
Hmm I should probably just go all in and put Tidal Dash etc. on it, too.
The game's kept throwing Lord Ares at me though lol.
cloud kelp
i hate tiny vermin nothing is clear about that bossfight cancel game launch please
autumn sable
40 heat zag spear clear incoming
autumn sable
just now, it's uploading
autumn sable
there are, i don't think we know exact frames but most people feel like the iframes are closer to the beginning of the dash
cloud kelp
thing is i got git at the start of the dash and bwtween dashes
autumn sable
inputting an attack during this window will also cancel the iframes out
autumn sable
aspect for what?
cloud kelp
spear
autumn sable
Zagreus aspect
cloud kelp
im thinking about investing in gy
although im bad at the game im like 100 something runs in
autumn sable
GY is probably still my favorite spear. It does need full investment though.
autumn sable
40 heat zag spear run is uploaded and in self promotion for anyone who is interested.
tidal flame
@autumn sable good job dude
I was watching the Meg fight and I thought you were using GY
I did not expect Zag to do that kind of damage. Nice run, awesome idea.
autumn sable
I was surprised myself, exploding launcher is really spammy compared to GY
Did a few runs where I didn't get exploding and the special is servicable but so clunky comparatively
tidal flame
I mean you can seed hammer start
Again, I have 0 qualm with that
The same way bow needs Twinsies if DC is on
autumn sable
I shouldāve tested DC to see if going higher heat would be reasonable but I didnāt expect a successful run
patent umbra
Nice job with the doc there, Nyaa. You're gathering all kinds of useful information. Should that be pinned too?
mossy zinc
Thanks! But don't ask me. I don't need it pinned. I know where to find it lol.
patent umbra
Fair point
cloud kelp
did someone see the 48 heat rama run?
foggy ruin
wait, you can seed hammers? how?
foggy ruin
i see. i understood seeding as getting the first boon you need to kick off a run
autumn sable
which can include hammers
daring hedge
well, not today i guess. moments before zag death http://puu.sh/G2dRu/637c2ea63f.jpg
did not expect a dio attack hades aspect run to make it that far
tidal flame
Serrated edge or naw?
daring hedge
yeah
autumn sable
Would you try it again?
daring hedge
like dio attack for hades aspect specifically?
probably not, it didn't feel like it really helped at all other than providing easier priv status
i got low tolerance but still, a lv. 2 rare dio attack isn't doing that much compared to everything else
cool, denied serrated point in elysium by AP when i thought i had another good run
sigh
autumn sable
Too bad. Hoping for secret tech.
What are you trying to do with Hades now? Just messing around with all the spin changes with the patch?
daring hedge
just trying to do well with it at high heat, generally i think
while actually using its core aspect feature and all
and from there seeing what's good for it at 40+ and such
cloud kelp
am i sleeping on hydraulic might??
tardy path
I mean it has a lot of problems right now
I've entered rooms with Than or the timed rooms and it just gets wasted at the start
Along with it taking like 3 seconds for enemies to spawn to begin with
On Styx its pretty good
However it is so not worth it early game
zinc scarab
Does anyone here pick up Demeter Aid for anythiing?
hollow lynx
5 seconds is really really short, but if you can get any damage off it's great
demeter's aid is okay, it's nice to be able to leave a damage source instead of having to be near a target
autumn sable
A quick 10 stacks of chill with the slowdown is probably a little undervalued.
tardy path
What'chu guys on about? A level 3 Demeter's aid is pretty dope
It charges up pretty fast with the chaos shield and I just drop it every chance I get
autumn sable
Based on the numbers, Demeter's aid seems ideal as an area denial type of cast. Better for ranged builds that need the utility to create space and slow down enemies.
On top of the initial iframes all calls give.
zinc scarab
I generally get disappointed by its damage for its charge time
autumn sable
It certainly won't win any dps contests, that's for sure
hollow lynx
it's nice to strategically place a call, and it's better for maxing out chill stacks (which pairs well with arctic blast too)
zinc scarab
Oh boy new patch with spear buffs
rotund coyote
Final Boss: you no longer auto-lock to the summoned urns the rail and bow just got better
idk how to quote in a different channel but mmmmmmm
hollow lynx
> quote
hollow lynx
||yes||
tardy path
||
||
cloud kelp
boiz the patch notes are huge
autumn sable
@daring hedge get back at it, is all I see in the patch notes
daring hedge
already jumping back in yeah lol
daring hedge
aw, got a post-patch crash already
cloud kelp
im waiting to hear opinions about rama to see if i invest in it or gy
fallow stream
Drift dash got a buff
cloud kelp
whats ruthless
fallow stream
Ruthless reflex. Mirror talent
fallow stream
Use whatever weapon you are most comfortable with
Some people love the fists, others love the spear, etc.
The best weapon is the one you are best with
fading star
Wow, a 48 heat victory with the Rama bow. Awesome stuff!
Guess I need to do some more hardcore practice to get those Twin Fists a 50 heat win
robust zephyr
wow what got nerfed in particular?
drowsy berry
@tidal flame what changed?
forest vortex
@tidal flame answer lord Amir you peasant
tidal flame
Lol probably it has been for a while
Duration change etc. I haven't seen Patty much lately. My guess is that he has been this way for a while, i just didn't get to see him.
patent umbra
Wait do you mean Broken Spearpoint? Or the new legendary keepsake?
Or the gifts he gives you upon visiting?
forest vortex
What's changed about the gifts?
drowsy berry
I don't think we intentionally changed anything there, but let me know if something seems different between Nighty Night and Blood Price with a tag.
fallow stream
Does Dionysus sticking his nose into all my builds count? Seriously, tell that guy we aren't friends when I'm using fists š¤£
robust zephyr
not in patchnotes explicitly so it may be a bug
honest kernel
Why not when you're using Fists?
robust zephyr
i wouldnt complain about dio since he is free status curse if u put him on call/special. But im not experienced with fist so maybe you want the special for something else.
robust zephyr
you think the increased aoe is helping
daring hedge
a little bit, yeah actually. it's not what i had in mind for it but it has been helping me apply the mark to things more consistently, all at once which is nice. i'm still playing around with it and the other spear aspects
it definitely makes both massive and quick spin feel even better as hammers for it (and both at once is truly ridiculous in a good way)
i'll probably mess with achilles aspect more soon
this is how close i was in the 41 run: http://puu.sh/G2lSS/24f7d88b7b.jpg
immeasurable pain
mossy zinc
Higher rarity attack would have won that.
daring hedge
exactly, it's so tragic how just an ounce would have pushed it to victory
but i got greedy and thought i could finish it
mossy zinc
How can anybody complain about Lord Dionysus showing up when Dionysus' Aid is a thing. Rude.
tidal flame
Git gud ;)
patent umbra
Achilles aspect offers so much mobility that I want to get good at it but for the life of me can't
mossy zinc
It takes time to become good with any aspect.
honest kernel
Varatha is very difficult, honestly.
forest vortex
True
fallow stream
@honest kernel he just shows up in Tartarus in EVERY run... I do use Dio sometimes, but there's other times I just don't want... And he's always there.... Watching, waiting to steal away an opportunity to further my build in miniboss rooms and Charon shops
As for Dionysus aid... Yeah it's ok, but it's also kinda meh, because the damage is essentially capped as soon as you max out hangover
I mean, when I have to take him, I take his aid, but I prefer his t2 and t3 boons
tidal flame
Do you interrupt your channel to dash?
autumn sable
no
there's no actual dash attack on lucifer
so you get full iframes while beaming
i'm pretty sure
tidal flame
Hmm I'm so tempted to use mkb for rail now
Controller doesn't feel as good
Because you need to get in an awkward hand position to hold attack and dash
autumn sable
you do have to let go of attack to make smaller movements which are necessary sometimes but that's pretty much it
only you do
cause you switched buttons
autumn sable
does it?
tidal flame
Yeah because you thumb covers both a and b
So it's easier to press both at the same time or sequentially
But not when you hold a then hit b while holding a
autumn sable
isn't it more ergonomic for you hit x+a at the same time?
tidal flame
No because my hand is small and that's a longer reach
honest kernel
Do you have your thumb turned a little more?
tidal flame
A and B can be done with one button press in the middle.
This seems like a totally personal preference thing now xD
tidal flame
That sounds judgemental 
autumn sable
i accept you
fallow stream
You can just remap the buttons
For lucifer
@tidal flame
Put the attack button on R1
Problem solved
Or L1
So you don't confuse cast
That's what I do
robust zephyr
yeah lucifer is probably one of the easiest weapons, I had a really easy time with it barring my crappy experience in styx during my 40 heat clear with it. Definitely had worse rng than my nemesis run but managed to scrape by even without the best luck.
fallow stream
Or even make the reload button L1 because you don't need the codex
robust zephyr
I change the keys for lucifer even in mkb mainly when i dont have eternal chamber i move reload to the mouse for easier gameplay
fallow stream
No because my hand is small and that's a longer reach
You have Trump hands?
robust zephyr
the best part about lucy is that it completely trashes crowds of low hp mobs with lightning strike. It also makes DC2 entirely free as lightning strike counts as an additional dmg source. And has relatively good dmg control and mobility due to dash retaining your beam with it.
mossy zinc
As for Dionysus aid... Yeah it's ok, but it's also kinda meh, because the damage is essentially capped as soon as you max out hangover
Dionysus' Aid has the highest AOE damage by far and second-highest single-target damage out of all the Calls.
tidal flame
Yo crush shot with the new shield has potential
mossy zinc
Nice. What about you, though?
forest vortex
Dionysus Aid can single-handedly carry a run
mossy zinc
Not really, but it adds a lot of good DPS. You still need a good build in the first place, though.
Calls can only do so much.
honest kernel
If you swing Smoldering Air, though.
tidal flame
Nice. What about you, though?
I do too and so are you
mossy zinc
I think you're overrating Privileged Status quite a bit there.
mossy zinc
forest vortex
I'll go back to my low-heat fellows now
mossy zinc
Let's see, with Smoldering Air, you get 615~799.5 damage every 5 seconds, so that's 123~159.9 DPS in an AOE.
That's without poms.
honest kernel
Common level 1?
mossy zinc
Common is 615 damage if you hit with all 7 pulses, and Heroic is 799.5.
That requires core boons from Lady Aphrodite and Lord Zeus + Dionysus' Aid. What weapon do you put that on?
Chaos Aspect perhaps?
Heartbreak Strike + Thunder Flourish.
Lightning Strike + Heartbreak Flourish on Malphon and maybe Exagryph.
hollow lynx
just for curiosity, what if you got curse of nausea
mossy zinc
I don't know the specifics of that one.
honest kernel
Drops Hangover tick time from .5 seconds to .35.
mossy zinc
Thank you. I'll look into that one later. I need a nap.
DPS would be a bit lower in reality because the first 5 seconds of any encounter, you can't use a Call, and you'll often get a bar when you've already cleared the last wave. But it should still be very high.
Well, a bit less than 5 seconds because dealing and taking damage still increases the gauge, as far as I know.
zinc scarab
I find it interesting how you could somewhat partition the gods' calls into a couple different roles, like:
Aphrodite/Artemis: Burst damage, best at max gauge
Zeus/Dionysus: High consistent damage, best used as often as possible (or at key dps moments)
Poseidon/Athena: Invulnerability as defense and some damage packed in, great for getting out of sticky situations as better dodgeā¢ļø
Demeter: Large aoe slow and curse application... which is nice I guess?
Ares: Still need to try the new version
hollow lynx
SA and athena's call is silly
honest kernel
As is Aphrodite, since it's (if nothing else) an unblockable stun every five seconds.
zinc scarab
My problem with aphrodite is that it hits whatever it pleases. As such I tend to just use it on bosses at max gauge
hollow lynx
it's still an unblockable stun on bosses too
mossy zinc
Does Charm last for the full duration on bosses?
honest kernel
It definitely doesn't last the full duration on the final boss, but it does interrupt any action.
mossy zinc
With enough poms, you can still probably perma-charm him with Aphrodite's Aid and Smoldering Air.
zinc scarab
New meme run: level 20 aphrodite's aid
mossy zinc
That would be fun. Not quite Shatter Shot + Unhealthy Fixation + Fully Loaded, but fun.
lofty sable
Once you get the boon that causes ten stacks of chill to explode Demeterās Call boon skyrockets in damage.
On boss damage she also has DoT as well if you have the decay boon
mossy zinc
Demeter's Aid does 20 tics of damage, so that only procs twice.
hollow lynx
smouldering air says hi š
mossy zinc
60 tics for a Greater Call.
tidal flame
For new shield aspect is there like a strong cast that I'm not aware of?
Currently Passion Flare seems to be the end all be all
hollow lynx
ice wine still works i believe
tidal flame
Has anyone seen something better?
hollow lynx
and scintillating
tidal flame
In the context of RI and AP
Where you can't exactly rely on Ice Win drop
I'm thinking Passion Flare and Curse of Agony
Passion Flare might outdamage Trippy Shot by a large margin
mossy zinc
Quite a lot of 40+ runs rely on Duo Boons.
tidal flame
Given the stones don't lodge
mossy zinc
E.g., every Merciful End build.
tidal flame
And don't turn into cloud for a while
mossy zinc
With spiky blonde hair?
tidal flame
What
Oh lol
Got it
I have been testing Crush Shot recently
Really want to make it work
The damage is certainly there
mossy zinc
Just go back in time to before it was nerfed. Easy.
tidal flame
And an easy Priv Status enabler, too
mossy zinc
That'll make it work.
mossy zinc
I think pure cast builds are quite a bit less dominant now since the beta. Felt like every other victory post was some Ice Wine variant with easy +1 ammo from Master Chaos lol.
More variety now.
tidal flame
I'm excited for the fact that new shield doesn't lodge Crush Shot.
That's ~700 damage for each bullrush
tidal flame
True lol
But now the consistency is here
Is this new era of single boon 40+ heat clear?
One Crush Shot to rule them all
And in love bind them
mossy zinc
Do not reference such dark words in the name of Lady Aphrodite. š«
You fiend!
Draw your weapon, blackguard!
tidal flame
uses charm on Theseus, grab popcorn, watch the champions kill each other
mossy zinc
Lv. 20 Aphrodite's Aid + Smoldering Air is the new meta.
Heroic, of course.
Win 58 Heat by starting a civil war with Charm in the Underworld.
Lucifer + Heartbreak Strike + Unhealthy Fixation optional.
tidal flame
I wonder how charm enemy damage is calculated
mossy zinc
If you could clear Elysium on TD2 by charming whole rooms and letting them fight each other, that would be immensely satisfying.
tidal flame
Because a charmed chariot can chunk Hades health down very quickly
I'll try running Crush Shot Beowulf tomorrow at 32 as proof of concept
mossy zinc
Sadly that Chariot will at most survive only Hades's first life.
tidal flame
I did a 20 heat run with level Beowulf Common crush shot and it feels really good.
mossy zinc
I've done some 32 attempts with Tempest Strike on Malphon lol.
tidal flame
Do you know what it means when they say someone has potential?
It means that person has accomplished nothing yet in their life.
mossy zinc
Well, nobody's accomplished anything with Tempest Strike yet.
Not that I'm aware of.
Maybe Icebox. Haven't seen him around in awhile.
tidal flame
That dude has the weirdest anecdotes
mossy zinc
?
T'was both funny and cringe seeing you newbies dismiss him for days until he posted those screenshots for his 46 heat clear.
When what he was telling you made sense.
tidal flame
Lol no.
If I barge into the server touting 46 heat clear righr now without ever posting any vid or screenshot at all, while regularly referencing that run in discussions, would you believe me?
The doubt was justified. Don't try to twist it.
mossy zinc
If you say so.
mossy zinc
Manthro likes it and has success with it, so yeah, apparently.
Mirror choice probably depends on the build you want.
And even then there's no clear concensus.
I like to give everything a chance, and when I don't have success with it myself, somebody else eventually might.
unreal star
I definitely wouldn't call myself a god at the game, but when I'm doing +10 heat I use the plume
it's especially good with the hermes boon that gives you damage based on speed
tribal eagle
Plume just feels like such a big commitment to me
unreal star
it is a big commitment
unreal star
one thing I wish they would do is make it so that if you switch out, you keep your stacks
tribal eagle
And like I'm already not using TD because I go to slowly
unreal star
with the plume and the butterfly
unreal star
I like to use TD in low heat
but once you start getting more enemies, with more health
tight deadline just becomes a death sentence
mossy zinc
If you can't beat TD2 or get the buff from the Plume consistently in chambers, you're probably not gonna clear high heat either way.
tribal eagle
Definitely
I need to just accept TD1 ngl
TD2 is just nah
I just cannot do it as a player
mossy zinc
It's just a matter of strategy as well as practice and experience in the game.
You can learn a lot from low heat speedrunners that you can apply in high heat TD2.
unreal star
I can get the buff from the plume consistently
it's just I take some time on bossfights
tribal eagle
i'm being an idiot rn, so time to slam my head against 32 heat until i clear
unreal star
it also depends heavily on the weapon
like I would never take the plume on the bow or shield
but you're god damn right I'm taking the plume on gauntlets almost every time
mossy zinc
I never take the Lambent Plume on Malphon anymore, or on anything really.
unreal star
Acorn ??
mossy zinc
Yes.
mossy zinc
You'll see Acorn in every high heat run.
There's no such thing as a crutch when you're doing 40+ heat.
unreal star
hm
well maybe once I start working my way to that heat I'll change my tune
when I'm not taking plume I usually take
mossy zinc
One spin attack from Hades does 80 damage with HL5, 120 damage if you got hit by Boiling Blood.
unreal star
Coinpurse > Owl > arrowhead > Shawl
mossy zinc
So Acorn can be worth 400 HP or more in that fight.
mossy zinc
Lucky Tooth is only 100 HP.
unreal star
plus a period of invuln
mossy zinc
A very short one, yes. Acorn is worth much more effective HP.
tribal eagle
tooth is so much worse
unreal star
acorn doesn't help against the cancer in the temple
I only take tooth if I don't think I'm even gonna MAKE it to hades without it
it is for particularly dire runs
tribal eagle
generally styx is easy
mossy zinc
Lucky Tooth might carry you to a Well or Patroclus in Elysium. So it's definitely not useless. Although not being able to pick Acorn in Elysium for that is gonna be pretty hard.
unreal star
but sometimes luck is not on my side and I don't get the dash shield
I still struggle with chariot thesius
worse than hades tbh
mossy zinc
The Temple of Styx can definitely end your run if you're not careful or get bad RNG. Although, the changes to Bruiser and some FO2 changes have definitely helped a lot.
unreal star
the changes to what now
mossy zinc
No more Bruiser Snakestones single-handedly ending your run. 
unreal star
oh
mossy zinc
The Bruiser perk from Benefits Package. They reduced the armor from that a lot.
tribal eagle
yes but i had to do jank to be able to
mossy zinc
That's a new bug they're aware of and working on. I play in windowed borderless anyway, so I don't have that problem.
unreal star
I play borderless too
mossy zinc
One Satyr Tunnel with Bruiser Snakestones before the Blood Price update could easily take 3 minutes on high heat and take 2 or more DDs from you.
That's a run ender.
honest kernel
lucky tooth is def a thing that felt better to me when I started running but after I got a lot better at dealing with styx acorn is just better bc hades is the real problem tbh
unreal star
Wait
How do I make it borderless again
I thought it was but I dont see a setting for it
mossy zinc
Options > Display
tribal bloom
So is there a recent guide/ recommendations for 32 heat runs?
cloud kelp
boiz what should i upgrade my life is confused
mossy zinc
No one here's written any guides I'm aware of.
cloud kelp
guys should i be ashamed of doing increasing heat with god mode?
kinda do be ashaming
fossil wharf
As long as you don't go bragging about how you did 40 heat then no one cares
mossy zinc
There's no rule against doing that. It's a single player game. Do what you like to have fun.
cloud kelp
i wanna get good though
im afraid going for gy might be going over my skill cap rn
@fossil wharf unles i do it without god mode?
fossil wharf
Yeah
fossil wharf
Just keep practicing, you'll get there
I'm not even at 8 myself tbh been playing too many different weapons
mossy zinc
I think most people here who did 40+ have a couple hundred hours or more in the game, and we all spend a lot of time talking strategy.
Although there are more people who have a couple hundred hours or more in the game and did not clear 40+.
A lot of my high heat attempts end in Tartarus. It takes a lot of perseverance and practice and some luck to get there.
cloud kelp
i really wish there were some voice chats
so people could stream
and maybe coached
now the question is
do i rama or do i chiron
mossy zinc
I'd pick Rama personally. Just because I've used that less often.
cloud kelp
so because its more fresh?
mossy zinc
I suppose?
cloud kelp
what r good rama builds?
fallow stream
I can't help but notice there seems to be no answer to your question... From anyone... Which should tell you something š¤£
mossy zinc
48 heat was done with Lightning Flourish, so . . . Lightning Flourish.
hallow stream
if your brain is big enough, regular attack build
cedar spire
Crystal Beam is the big IQ build clearly
mossy zinc
Cold Embrace + Crystal Clarity is . . . weird. Feels like you're nerfing your cast by adding Crystal Clarity.
Crystal Clarity + Parting Shot should be fun.
Er.
Cold Embrace + Parting Shot, I mean.
acoustic hare
Imagine deliberately dying repeatedly just to get a good seed for the run and then throw it with losing all DD in Tartarus.
f u n
tidal flame
You can give up right up to the black screen
And save the seed. The timing is very lenient. Maybe you knew already but doesn't hurt to say anyhow.
honest kernel
I never thought of this...smart
acoustic hare
I'm starting to see the point of those who asked for a high heat venting channel, I'm at a boiling point right now.
It's just not fun.
honest kernel
I was there yesterday its ok
sometimes I need to unleash my gamer rage and then get back to become good at the game again
mossy zinc
We didn't ask for a "venting" channel but one to talk high heat strategies without intimidating other players. I think people did become intimidated because half the talk was us discussing 40+ strategies and what's viable or not for that lol.
acoustic hare
Well you didn't but some folks really did.
||including me right now||
mossy zinc
The new setup with the newbie channel and this one + builds/strategies seems really good.
honest kernel
idk I think this is fine
tidal flame
I'm just here to pretend I'm good
daring hedge
fox posts low heat clips of destroying doomstone with GY spin
but it's ok because it looks good
tidal flame
Task fails successfully?
mossy zinc
@daring hedge defeating a region 1 miniboss on 10 heat is his greatest accomplishment. It's important to celebrate small accomplishments.
inland drum
Question, is 32 heat statue the final threshold for a tangible reward in the game?
mossy zinc
Yeah, after that you just make heat gauge cry.
There isn't any reward beyond 32 heat (yet).
acoustic hare
Just gotta wait for 64 heat to become available.
mossy zinc
Well, you're rewarded Darkness for your struggles.
inland drum
Thanks. Still in the teens but trying to see how far I can get without upgrading.
acoustic hare
As if it's in any way useful when one normally reaches such levels of challenge.
mossy zinc
Hey, the Darkness helped me towards my last Persuasion reroll.
inland drum
Lmao they give darkness and not gems? Aw.
acoustic hare
Imagine being able to use Persuasion.
This post is made by Routine Inspection gang.
inland drum
Ohh thought you meant like. High heat gives bonus darkness haha
tidal flame
defeating a region 1 miniboss on 10 heat is his greatest accomplishment. It's important to celebrate small accomplishments.
Actually no, my biggest accomplishment is clearing 32 heat 2 whole days before a certain someone else, using their best weapon no less
mossy zinc
Wow. That's really good.
acoustic hare
Ohh thought you meant like. High heat gives bonus darkness haha
Well, it does.
Every point of Heat invested in the pact gave +2% Darkness collected during escape attempts.
mossy zinc
@acoustic hare you can still use Persuasion with RI now.
inland drum
Oooooo I never even knew that. I never paid attention to the darkness amount
tidal flame
Does it actually?
acoustic hare
The Wiki says so.
mossy zinc
Bullying you?
daring hedge
Carry on
acoustic hare
...oh
mossy zinc
acoustic hare
Wait, I'm blind. That was prior to the Superstar Update. Oof.
mossy zinc
@daring hedge I don't bully you. I respect you, senpai.
acoustic hare
So yeah, high Heat is even more useless unless you're feeling extra masochistic.
tidal flame
Do it for the clout points
mossy zinc
Cloud points?
acoustic hare
It's not worth it if my mental health gets destroyed in a process.
Screw this, I'm going back to 0 Heat.
daring hedge
I mean if it's not fun, yeah, don't force it
Most of us push this high because it's still fun for us in that way
mossy zinc
Cloud points are worth the strife.
daring hedge
But I mean, I still take breaks if it gets frustrating
acoustic hare
It's just that stupid trophy, it standing there unclaimed haunts me, mocking me for my inability to complete a single 32 heat run.
mossy zinc
It's probably a minority of players at this point who've cleared anything north of 30.
tidal flame
Did you try shield or rail?
daring hedge
Oh there are plenty of avenues to grab just the 32 without much trouble if you just want to have it and be done with high heat
Namely new gun
acoustic hare
No. Consciously. I hate them both.
tidal flame
I see
acoustic hare
I hate them with a passion and I won't use them under any circumstances.
daring hedge
Interesting
mossy zinc
We can help you with builds and strategies, probably.
acoustic hare
My favorite is the Spear but it just feels so... weak compared to them.
daring hedge
Spear is much tougher at high heat, I can definitely attest to that
GY is your best bet for that weapon, for now, in terms of high heat ease
tidal flame
If it's a once and done deal then make that pact with your inner demon and use shield or rail.
Try hestia, it takes some skill to use, trust me.
mossy zinc
Well, lucky for you it got some buffs, and @daring hedge here is one of the best players with Varatha. So you'll be getting good tips.
daring hedge
Oh yeah the buffs this patch have been very welcome
mossy zinc
Using a weapon you don't enjoy probably lowers your odds a lot more than whatever supposed weaknesses any weapon has.
Plus it's just not as fun.
And then what's the point.
fallow stream
Of all the weapons, the bow is now my least favourite/skilled at for me
tidal flame
I read that as bow is the least skilled weapon
daring hedge
Fox was about to go off lol
acoustic hare
The Hades spin is said to have been buffed. Could it be viable with QuickSpin?
tidal flame
And was about to be mad xD
daring hedge
Hades aspect is definitely viable with quick spin, and it still is without
tidal flame
I got ya
fallow stream
I used to despise sword, but I love nemesis aspect
daring hedge
The larger radius helps with marking armored foes from a safer distance, even without charging a max spin
acoustic hare
I'm torn between Hades and GY. Both are maxed out, of course.
daring hedge
I'd say either is plenty viable for 32, but GY will likely be easier
mossy zinc
32 heat you really need to start learning how to i-frame some attacks consistently and reading telegraphs. I think that's at least as important as the build you use, probably more.
Gotta know to dash when those Inferno-Bombers do their little hop, so you don't eat triple bombs.
Stuff like that.
acoustic hare
GY normal attacks feel lethargic, and I can't manage to live up to reach Hermes upgrades anyway.
fallow stream
I just play like dirt until my SD triggers š¤£
tidal flame
reading telegraphs.
What year is this? 1892?
daring hedge
With GY you won't want to do the full attack combo
acoustic hare
What's even the point in that then?
daring hedge
Dash-strike to special weaving is flexible, mobile and strong for high heat
mossy zinc
@tidal flame dogs can't read anyway. š«
daring hedge
I would recommend that
tidal flame
I can sniff out the enemies' moves from 10 miles away.
I just don't bother to dodge them.
fallow stream
I've always been partial to Zag aspect spear + explosive launcher and spamming dash specials
Just now learning the power of the spin/dash plus serrated point
daring hedge
If you do hades aspect at 32, I would recommend any of quick spin, massive spin (now it's ridiculously massive) or serrated point above other hammers
mossy zinc
The "point" is fun and variety, but not everything is as viable on higher heats. Although, it's always possible you can make it work. We're all just going by what's worked for us, too, and often we'll see tactics we hadn't considered or aspects do better than we expected etc.
acoustic hare
And for GY?
fallow stream
GY is all special, or load your attack for spin to win tornadoes
daring hedge
For GY, serrated point is really good also, but charged skewer is likely still king for it
fallow stream
Charged skewer yes
acoustic hare
still? I actually have never used that before lol
tidal flame
One day I will make Doom Huntee Dash Hestia work.
acoustic hare
I'm using GY with spin
daring hedge
Ah yeah, sorry, it's just that GY has favored that hammer for a while
tidal flame
still? I actually have never used that before lol
Charged Skewer with Deadly Flourish has been the staple of GY builds for a while
Essentially you put less attentions to your attacks or spin and spam special
daring hedge
And it works great even with other special boons like heartbreak flourish
tidal flame
Which is your main source of damage
fallow stream
I have 38 blood, saving 15 for the eventual 4th fist aspect
Trying to determine what weapon I should max for fun which I don't use.
Zeus aspect shield or Arthur
Eris aspect rail is dumb, I won't ever bother with it
mossy zinc
I've been having fun with Nemesis and Varatha.
tidal flame
Which varatha :|
fallow stream
I might max Achilles aspect just to see if I can find a build that works
daring hedge
It is better now, at least
2 boosted attacks/casts to 4
And the charge is variable depending on you holding down the button, like a faster charged skewer
Very fast, actually
mossy zinc
Zagreus Aspect and Hades Aspect. Still need to max out Achilles Aspect.
autumn sable
Any cast build should work on Achilles. I donāt foresee that being a big surprise
Crystal clarity is probably unironically nice just to cover up how clunky Achilles can be
autumn sable
Hunting blades was pretty popular for a time but I dunno what happened to make it less popular with Achilles. Thereās not very many high heat cast builds but I see Achilles working fairly well in that context
honest kernel
It's very good with Achilles.
I think people just stopped running it as much since Slicing Shot is so hard to use without Hunting Blades.
mossy zinc
Slicing Shot + Engulfing Vortex already really stays on top of enemies.
fallow stream
I can see frozen hunting blades being a thing
honest kernel
I've heard it's not very good because enemies easily escape the slower Blade Rifts.
fallow stream
But they slow down enemies as well. I'll have to try
autumn sable
No amount of chill stops the Asphodel Space Jam
tidal flame
@daring hedge I looked at some old old Hades runs for funsies and found some vids that show you stacking 6 - 7 Death Defiances in a run.
Is that a thing? How did heat and DD work back then?
I'm curious
daring hedge
oh yeah, there used to not be a DD limit at once
so you could start with three from the mirror, and stack more from athena on top
and kiss of styx too, of course
tidal flame
Can we erm, can we have that back š
autumn sable
Highest heat strategy is just changing the game
daring hedge
Reverting to patch builds before hades and styx were in the game so I can't lose a run to them #highheatstrats
tidal flame
This channel is getting too big brain xD
daring hedge
learning that armored speeder nemean chariots can singlehandedly crush a run
even with four divine dashes.
daring hedge
i honestly feel like the speeder chariots kind of aren't... fair, for melee weapons without a ranged option or cast other than basic. you have to get through the armor by getting close to them, but on FO2 and with the speeder perk, there's just no way to not get hit, really. which wouldn't be too bad if they didn't hit like a truck on HL5
tidal flame
I definitely feel that.
rocky mauve
Whenever i have melee weapons i get them to crash into walls by dashing through them
Works pretty well
daring hedge
does not work so well with speeder+FO2+tracking
believe me, i would do this if it was a reliable way to take care of them
autumn sable
Yeah, it works and you can survive an encounter
But the probability of you not taking significant damage during it is super low
daring hedge
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/654076105321480226/728047607959519302/20200701194044_1.jpg it is done... my thirst is quenched... for now at least
simultaneously my worst and best hades fight for that run
tidal flame
P tight there huh š
daring hedge
wasted my acorn super early and got down to one hit to death at the start of phase 2
went through all of phase 2 hitless
also, a really bizarre thing happened: finished elysium and the champs with 2:37 left
there could have been a TD3 and i would have made it
tidal flame
Mid shop fountain chaos patty?
daring hedge
no chaos though
tidal flame
Ok
daring hedge
i was too scared lol
drowsy berry
What I am hearing here is that TD2 had too much time 
daring hedge
amir please no
drowsy berry
How was Flaring Spin on high heat?
daring hedge
it felt alright, i guess. i didn't really notice it doing much by the time i got it (elysium) and i mostly picked it because i couldn't nab quick or massive spin
to be fair i think there were some specific cases where i could hold the spin while it was flaring, and could let several exalted all pile up on the outer stun range
making it a little easier to spin them all and damage them down with serrated point
and although i didn't really need it for them, i have to admit that it's fun like, having a small vermin deletion aura in styx
and honestly now that you've asked me to think on it, it could be useful if i decided to run damage control
since i typically open with spins, and i don't like the hearts eating that damage
autumn sable
I always look forward to witnessing your runs
autumn sable
that seems not right
autumn sable
Amir furiously typing to other devs
tidal flame
Also Flash Fire or Concentrated Beam?
autumn sable
flash fire
cedar spire
I want it
daring hedge
oh woah, did that level come from a pom choice or random pom slice assignment i wonder
autumn sable
yeah, how did you even get it to lvl 2?
frail crane
that's a good point actually
tidal flame
Nectar
autumn sable
pom, pom slice, nectar, eurydice?
daring hedge
ahh
tidal flame
Nectar sorry in the middle of a run
tidal flame
Should I F10?
daring hedge
it's ok, go on and show dad the power of level two splitting bolt
autumn sable
probably, unless they enabled legendaries to be upgradable
frail crane
I'd probably f10 if you have the time
autumn sable
or keep typing and burying the evidence
autumn sable
no one needs to see that
daring hedge
the 41 hades aspect run is up in #self-promotion now yeehaw
frail crane
nice :D
daring hedge
the 57 heat strat
autumn sable
Dad didn't stand a chance vs
Level 2 Splitting BoltLucifer
daring hedge
zeus lucy with level 2 splitting
tidal flame
I need to learn how to balance between just dashing or hold on to ramped damage
I don't like how I need to stay in one place though
Feels so vulnerable
autumn sable
flash fire really helps with that since it allows you to be more mobile without losing the ramp
tidal flame
There is a cap on the ramp right?
honest kernel
I'm not entirely sure.
Part of me wants to say it ramps "infinitely" but you're capped by ammo.
daring hedge
hard to say considering you either have the default ammo amount or infinite where ramping doesn't apply
time to add a hammer that doubles ammo and thus ramping potential
honest kernel
Concentrated Fire does that, +100% ramp speed.
But I need to actually check if that caps ramp or not.
daring hedge
oh, and you get a higher ramp damage potential out of it?
honest kernel
I don't know, it's hard to test in Tartarus.
daring hedge
that's a good point though, i forgot about how that would apply here yeah
tidal flame
Alright I'll science this
autumn sable
if someone had a hammer start with all three, you could test fairly easily
just need to make sure the enemy is beefy enough to do enough damage to detect
daring hedge
yeah, hope for some bruisers or doomstone
autumn sable
even just a single bruiser thick boi in the first chamber would probably be enough to run an entire magazine
my suspicion is that even with Zeus, flash and concentrated are better
for majority of the game
@daring hedge wow, going for jerky instead of styx at patty
daring hedge
oh yes
i just love to get rid of the champs as fast as possible, even if i did deliberately avoid EM3 this time lol
autumn sable
certainly dead faster = more health
daring hedge
exactly
autumn sable
it's a decision I can respect
tidal flame
Ok the ramping effect of Lucifer makes 0 sense
it's neither additive nor exponential
or multiplicative for that matter
honest kernel
I took Tidal Dash in Elysium, got Mirage Shot, and then traded Tidal Dash for Hunter Dash on a Serrated Point/Deadly Strike/Achilles build. 
daring hedge
poseidon getting played for maximum benefit
tidal flame
The damage seems to be capped at 31 for the 8th bullet
autumn sable
@daring hedge tense Hades phase 2 fight
daring hedge
my heart was pounding out of my chest that whole time
tidal flame
and then ranges between 17 to 21 for the next 6 bullets????
autumn sable
must've been extra tense considering how close you were the other times
daring hedge
yeah exactly, i really didn't want it to end there for like the fourth time in the past couple days
and luckily my extra TD time allowed me to play carefully
autumn sable
2 sack really affords you careful play during Hades
i always have to remind myself when I get that lucky
autumn sable
That Hades spear run didnāt even have anything super crazy. Just Serrated Edge and Priv Status really
daring hedge
Yeah definitely, and it's funny how both this and the nighty night 40 ended up with demeter attack
Not because I particularly wanted it but got it and it works
I did have a crazier run that lost to hades yesterday with massive and quick spin
Those two on updated hades aspect's huge base spin radius... is so ridiculous
I really love it
drowsy berry
@tidal flame I may be too late...but please F10 that 56 damage splitting bolt
Oh, looks like you did!
Thanks.
mossy zinc
Pom and rarity scaling for all the +% Attack boons. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1P6oZ6i8zmY6s7PM_AkX_g6bjZ601iP_xi9CxzEpujJ4/edit?usp=sharing
Up to Lv.25.
fallow stream
I just fought literally the WORST Elysium enemies I have ever faced at heat 40.
Every room was link laser, gravity well and great shields with longspears which had that pink cloner eyeball cluster bomb
mossy zinc
Linker is awful for Malphon.
daring hedge
I actually like the popper perk, since it means it deprives them of another they could've had active while alive lol
mossy zinc
Fine when it's not a lot of enemies, but add JS3 CP2 BP2 . . .
fallow stream
Yeah, but when you can't move to clear them because of linker and gravity, they keep regenerating š¤£
Then the room I died in had flamewheels with gravity well and teleport
daring hedge
Ah yeah, for those I just dash back and forth across a gap or obstacle, and pray
tidal flame
I made it pretty far into Elysium with Crush Shot Beowulf on 37 heat
daring hedge
FO2 armored chariots are the bane of my melee existence without breaching cross fists
tidal flame
with literally one crush shot for damage
daring hedge
Especially speeder ones which I lamented about earlier today lol
fallow stream
Dude... Speeder chariots are crazy
tidal flame
and that's beowulf level 1 and rare crush shot
daring hedge
They really are, I truly fear them
tidal flame
the damage potential is huge boys
daring hedge
Ohh nice
tidal flame
yeah
I actually died at 32 ealier
the biggest challenge is definitely teleporting enemies
of all thigns
fallow stream
Oh @mossy zinc I play on js2, so there was definitely a death party in there
honest kernel
I'm of the opinion that Shifter cannot be balanced.
fallow stream
Js3... Ugh.
tidal flame
yeah they are annoying, especially with back end heavy damage weapons
daring hedge
Shifter is luckily a situation where spear spin can shine, since it's a large aoe that comes out so quick upon release. I like waiting until they've just teleported to whack them instantly with an extra-huge hades sweep
mossy zinc
Did anyone even look at my spreadsheet.
tidal flame
I can't read so it doesn't help me.
mossy zinc
tidal flame
Just give me the summary of your findings
honest kernel
Based on what I remember from the Malphon spreadsheet, in terms of +% boons, Aphrodite comes out above all others, unless Artemis starts stacking 100% additional damage and more.
mossy zinc
I didn't make a Malphon spreadsheet. Do you mean the Heartbreak Strike vs Deadly Strike one? That didn't have pom levels anyway.
honest kernel
No, I did not look at the spreadsheet.
daring hedge
yes
fallow stream
I have heartbreak strike on it
daring hedge
it's so hilarious
fallow stream
Melting everything
.... That moment where you sell a boon because you've been so used to underworld customs being on... But it's not ā¹ļø
robust zephyr
I just never take it off
Even though it hurts when you try for fun and unserious runs on low heat
and look for certain duos
hallow stream
so does hades spin with massive spin cover literally the entire screen
robust zephyr
I felt like it already covered the entire screen by itself, gotta try massive spin now
daring hedge
yes, basically
mossy zinc
Fighting Charon in Elysium on TD2 is so not worth it.
660 Obols from the fight didn't save me from TD2 either.
daring hedge
if you're not in asphodel, it will most likely spin across the entirety of the room, barring a couple bigger ones otherwise
it's truly huge
fallow stream
That made the Lernie fight completely trivial š¤£š¤£š¤£
Spin, explode all heads
daring hedge
it's comical when combined with quick
mossy zinc
@hallow stream did you see my new spreadsheet?
robust zephyr
How much exactly is it increased by though it isnt listed
mossy zinc
By a hellish amount.
robust zephyr
Yeah it feels like you have massive spin range already
fallow stream
Hades aspect spear: "What are flamewheels?"
robust zephyr
when not armored and without DC yeah basically
fallow stream
I wonder what the spin is like using Poseidon attack
mossy zinc
Chariots, off-screen 360 no-scope Strongbows, and Soulcatchers are the worst enemies in Elysium, I think.
They all will most certainly hit you.
daring hedge
strongly agree with chariots
robust zephyr
I find elite strongbows sometimes harder than greatshields when i play melee
daring hedge
i have only grown to fear and respect them more as i run high heat more
hollow lynx
deceptively long spear hitboxes also rank up there
daring hedge
elite strongbows with their triple shot attack are actually a huge pain with reduced dash distance from serrated point
especially when there's a lot going on in the room otherwise
robust zephyr
Also theres just that visual explosion of targets flashing at you and beeping
mossy zinc
Longspears are bad, but it's actually doable to no-hit them. You can't no-hit a Strongbow that's sniping you from off-screen and you don't know from where lol. That's just RNG.
robust zephyr
Yeah never said you couldnt no-hit them. Strong bows are made exceptionally worse with certain BP perks
daring hedge
yeah, i've actually grown to fear longspears less lately, unless they're speeder, in which case on FO2 are very dangerous
mossy zinc
Well, I guess you can i-frame the shots, but the reticle doesn't help very much with that especially when multiple are aiming at you.
Yeah, didn't say you said that. Just explaining why I rate those three the worst.
robust zephyr
Its crowds of strongbows that makes it all the more overwhelming, combined with flaming wheels on a melee run
imagine no athena in that scenario lol
mossy zinc
Stuff like that is why I always have Deflect lol.
robust zephyr
It feels more like a necessity because such game-destroying rng can happen on melee runs
daring hedge
divine dash pays its rent in elysium alone
robust zephyr
specially with benefits package
mossy zinc
Asphodel without Deflect can be deadly, too.
robust zephyr
Lava flingers
mossy zinc
You can have Deflect and there'll be so many homing projectiles from all directions that you can't not lose DDs lol.
robust zephyr
witch circle isnt that bad, but regular spreaders with bruiser and speed hurt so much
daring hedge
JS with homing spreaders in aspho can be a nightmare without deflect options
even big groups of dracons, now, since they already have light homing
robust zephyr
Yeah thankfully I had alot of skips in asphodel with my 40 heat nemesis run
daring hedge
so the attack+ ones just hurt
robust zephyr
shop, 2 chaos and eurydice
mossy zinc
I've had so many screens that had basically projectiles on every inch, there was no place to stand and not take damage lol.
I think room skips make a lot of the 40+ runs.
robust zephyr
Good RNG becomes even more of a indicator of whether or not you can survive
daring hedge
certain BP combos can send an otherwise good 40+ run into an instant disaster
robust zephyr
When you have to contend with AP, BP, UC, which in turn bleeds into TD
daring hedge
yes i am salty about the group of speeder chariots i could do nothing about earlier
robust zephyr
and makes a snowball into a loss
How do you guys deal with AP? I never take it ever
robust zephyr
I would literally take 5 HS's before i take AP
mossy zinc
My build starts with the Owl Pendant, which gives me plenty of options from Divine Strike or Divine Dash.
daring hedge
not all of us run divine fists all the time ok nyaa
robust zephyr
Wanted to know though do god keepsakes only guarentee one god for each biome, or they stop guarenteeing that god after you use it once.
like if u kept the same one
mossy zinc
They'll force the god until you pick up the god once on your run.
robust zephyr
Only once oh well
tidal flame
Rare rarity
mossy zinc
Deadly Reversal first.
robust zephyr
Deadly Reversal yeah
tidal flame
Ok
daring hedge
hide breaker
robust zephyr
Nice fourth option that exists in the ether
mossy zinc
You can pick up the others later. Deadly Reversal is more difficult to get.
daring hedge
i only ever take hide breaker when there's nothing else i want in the slightest lol
fallow stream
Yeah, I'm not a huge fan of hide breaker
mossy zinc
Really? I like it. It's a good "I didn't get Explosive Upper or Breaching Cross this run" boon.
fallow stream
Breaching cross covers it, and i'd rather take clean kill or support fire.
I don't even like hunters mark
fallow stream
Yeah if I don't get breaching cross I consider hide breaker
daring hedge
i guess i prefer more general utility that isn't limited to armor
not saying it's bad really
i just personally don't take it too often
daring hedge
but armor-specific things that are just unequivocally good like breaching cross
mossy zinc
Anti-armor helps a lot vs BP2 and Hades's summon.
daring hedge
i will gladly take
robust zephyr
Idk you cant be too safe with minibosses
robust zephyr
Also lernie i guess
daring hedge
i guess it's just tough when i'm presented with other options from artemis that are also good but not quite as specific
so i gravitate towards those first
robust zephyr
Does hunters dash work on spin attacks with the spear
if u dash after unleashing the spin
daring hedge
no
robust zephyr
heh
You know hades spear is kind of like rama bow in that it gives you an attack buff that you can spread over many enemies.
flood the screen with a spin and then kill them with your attacks
mossy zinc
Hey, so . . . if you get a Lv. 21 Common Deadly Strike, it'll finally surpass a Heartbreak Strike of the same level. Important knowledge.
robust zephyr
Ill be keeping that in mind when i get that poseidon aphro duo
daring hedge
oof
mossy zinc
A Common Heartbreak Strike Lv.2 does more damage than an Epic Tempest Strike Lv.1.
fallow stream
Divine strike on Hades aspect with massive spin... Must test
daring hedge
daring hedge
it works now
daring hedge
but i would say that divine dash is still more flexible overall
for hades aspect utility
your deflect hitbox on dash spins is very generous'
and will typically deflect anything around you anyways
fallow stream
I want to test viability vs bosses though
robust zephyr
I mean it will be fun for messing around on low heat
daring hedge
i mean, against bosses it's pretty much the same story
robust zephyr
Guanyu does that better since it does more than one tick
daring hedge
the spin deflect for divine strike doesn't really linger; it's very much a timing thing and you'll have to charge it again to deflect continuous projectiles coming after your first spin
with divine dash, your dash spin will deflect, and your second dash afterwards will also, with both lingering slightly
robust zephyr
Might be fun to try with deadly reversal for the dmg
mossy zinc
Hmmm. Poms are essentially not worth it on Tempest Strike beyond Lv.4. You only get the minimum +4% from each pom onward.
daring hedge
yeah, i think it's still good
robust zephyr
But yeah the deflect on spin isnt the best for protection
daring hedge
don't get me wrong
but for deflecting on hades aspect, i think divine dash is the best still
daring hedge
very true lol
well, actually hard to pass up hunter on bow
hunter is still great situationally
robust zephyr
Its two different things though, deflect gives defense, hunter gives offense
daring hedge
yep, i'm just talking in terms of dash boons in general
robust zephyr
Probably the best two dashes i think
daring hedge
hunter and divine are top tier
robust zephyr
overall
daring hedge
i would agree
robust zephyr
Even though hunter is just simple dmg increase, it can make a big difference with crits