#h1-high-heat-strategies | Supergiant Games | Page 61

mossy zinc Jun 25, 2020, 7:55 PM

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I take rare+ and epic+ every time.

solid mason Jun 25, 2020, 7:56 PM

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Zagreus gets all the kisses.

mossy zinc Jun 25, 2020, 7:56 PM

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But honestly it's up to you. There's no concensus really.

tidal flame Jun 25, 2020, 7:56 PM

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My personal set up include Dark Regeneration

mossy zinc Jun 25, 2020, 7:56 PM

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Dark Regeneration, I suppose. But Chthonic Vitality might work out better for you.

autumn sable Jun 25, 2020, 7:56 PM

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it's pretty dependent on if you're trying to force a specific build too

solid mason Jun 25, 2020, 7:56 PM

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I think I still have two contract options for prophecy? Might be three. I know FO and MM.

tidal flame Jun 25, 2020, 7:56 PM

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And Death Defiance

solid mason Jun 25, 2020, 7:57 PM

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Oh, and Jury Summons.

autumn sable Jun 25, 2020, 7:57 PM

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some mirror upgrades simply help certain things more reliably

subtle plaza Jun 25, 2020, 7:57 PM

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An effective mirror build is RI4. 8 free heat.
@mossy zinc lol fo real?

tidal flame Jun 25, 2020, 7:57 PM

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No

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She is joking

mossy zinc Jun 25, 2020, 7:57 PM

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Hey, it's easy. squirtnya

autumn sable Jun 25, 2020, 7:57 PM

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so easy, it took her weeks

tidal flame Jun 25, 2020, 7:57 PM

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Please don't follow up with a joke and potentially confuse people

mossy zinc Jun 25, 2020, 7:58 PM

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If you're me or Wriste13, it's super easy, barely an inconvenience.

tidal flame Jun 25, 2020, 7:58 PM

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RI4 is about the hardest 8 heat you can do, just so we are clear.

subtle plaza Jun 25, 2020, 7:58 PM

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You can get Kisses of Styx very reliably when you need them with Persuasion.
@mossy zinc what do you mean by that?

autumn sable Jun 25, 2020, 7:58 PM

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2 tries each for wrist, yeah, easy for him

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questionable for you squirtyay

mossy zinc Jun 25, 2020, 7:58 PM

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Fated Persuasion lets you reroll Wells of Charon.

tidal flame Jun 25, 2020, 7:58 PM

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Bruh he got stuck soooo long practicing that Hades fight xD

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I think we are all over the place

subtle plaza Jun 25, 2020, 7:59 PM

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ohh

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i like to take the second one to reroll rooms to have better chance to force a build

tidal flame Jun 25, 2020, 7:59 PM

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That works too

subtle plaza Jun 25, 2020, 8:00 PM

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so most of you take DD still after the last update?

tidal flame Jun 25, 2020, 8:00 PM

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For 32 and below yes

autumn sable Jun 25, 2020, 8:00 PM

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for most runs, i do

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for 40+, no

mossy zinc Jun 25, 2020, 8:00 PM

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I think it's half-half.

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With LC4, you'd want SD.

autumn sable Jun 25, 2020, 8:00 PM

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"half"

solid mason Jun 25, 2020, 8:01 PM

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With Elsie4, you'd have a lot of cows.

tidal flame Jun 25, 2020, 8:01 PM

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Basically take DD

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It's more reliable

subtle plaza Jun 25, 2020, 8:01 PM

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also to reroll rooms to get athena's dash deflect which is the best dash in the game i think

tidal flame Jun 25, 2020, 8:01 PM

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SD triumphs DD in very specific scenario that shouldn't concern 32 heat or below runs.

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Divine Dash is tied with Hunter Dash for me

autumn sable Jun 25, 2020, 8:02 PM

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you could choose to do LC4 on 32

subtle plaza Jun 25, 2020, 8:02 PM

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what is that scenario out of curiosity?

autumn sable Jun 25, 2020, 8:02 PM

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not the easiest 4 heat though

tidal flame Jun 25, 2020, 8:02 PM

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Lasting Consequences 4

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You don't heal

subtle plaza Jun 25, 2020, 8:02 PM

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ohh

tidal flame Jun 25, 2020, 8:02 PM

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But with SD you can suicide

mossy zinc Jun 25, 2020, 8:02 PM

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Divine Dash is tied with Hunter Dash for me
I was gonna say the same. Depending on build, those two are the best.

tidal flame Jun 25, 2020, 8:02 PM

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And get some healing back

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I'm pumped to be done with work and try 40 Heat Hestia again

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Got close last time

autumn sable Jun 25, 2020, 8:04 PM

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i swear, lightning rod has some kind of high offer rate modifier

tidal flame Jun 25, 2020, 8:04 PM

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I swear I never see more than one Duo in my runs

solid mason Jun 25, 2020, 8:04 PM

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Unlocked new Bow aspect. I'll test it out when I finish eating.

subtle plaza Jun 25, 2020, 8:05 PM

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also what yall think of the new aspects?

tidal flame Jun 25, 2020, 8:05 PM

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Rail is really fun

subtle plaza Jun 25, 2020, 8:05 PM

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did rn the 3 prophecies for them

mossy zinc Jun 25, 2020, 8:05 PM

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I think they're not Malphon.

tidal flame Jun 25, 2020, 8:05 PM

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Bow is ok, I hate it because it doesn't fit my playstyle

subtle plaza Jun 25, 2020, 8:05 PM

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kinda meh

tidal flame Jun 25, 2020, 8:05 PM

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Shield is fun.

subtle plaza Jun 25, 2020, 8:05 PM

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bow is tooo slow

mossy zinc Jun 25, 2020, 8:05 PM

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That's my honest opinion, and the only opinion I have on them.

subtle plaza Jun 25, 2020, 8:05 PM

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i still like chrion best

solid mason Jun 25, 2020, 8:06 PM

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Yeah, I haven't done the run yet, but the basic attack is reaaaaally slow.

tidal flame Jun 25, 2020, 8:06 PM

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Yeah, agreed. It's not bad, just not my cup of tea.

subtle plaza Jun 25, 2020, 8:06 PM

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shield is cool

solid mason Jun 25, 2020, 8:06 PM

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I'm hoping that special, that I can light it up with Support Fire and Zeus, maybe Poseidon.

tidal flame Jun 25, 2020, 8:06 PM

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Quick guys, talk anything btu Malphon

daring hedge Jun 25, 2020, 8:06 PM

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i kinda wish the new rail had more opportunities for the special to shine

solid mason Jun 25, 2020, 8:06 PM

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Sea Storm.

subtle plaza Jun 25, 2020, 8:06 PM

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can do big boombooms with 3 casts

tidal flame Jun 25, 2020, 8:06 PM

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So the girl can learn to step out of her comfort zone

subtle plaza Jun 25, 2020, 8:06 PM

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lol

mossy zinc Jun 25, 2020, 8:07 PM

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I am. I'm practicing Demeter Aspect again.

autumn sable Jun 25, 2020, 8:07 PM

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the radiating damage of the new rail is very underwhelming

mossy zinc Jun 25, 2020, 8:07 PM

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See?

subtle plaza Jun 25, 2020, 8:07 PM

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malphon's oraora too stronk

daring hedge Jun 25, 2020, 8:07 PM

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all weapons are bows so nyaa is technically using a tiny, short-range bow

tidal flame Jun 25, 2020, 8:07 PM

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"improvement"

autumn sable Jun 25, 2020, 8:07 PM

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which i guess is fine since the attack is pretty busted

subtle plaza Jun 25, 2020, 8:07 PM

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my thought exactly

daring hedge Jun 25, 2020, 8:07 PM

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i wouldn't mind if the attack was toned down and conversely the special would be buffed a little

subtle plaza Jun 25, 2020, 8:08 PM

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you just spam it every reload or dodge

tidal flame Jun 25, 2020, 8:08 PM

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Rail spec is like a red headed step child

autumn sable Jun 25, 2020, 8:08 PM

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there is a niche with hazard bomb and the new rail though

subtle plaza Jun 25, 2020, 8:08 PM

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but mainly the attack is the focus there

tidal flame Jun 25, 2020, 8:08 PM

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Sure you use it once in a while

autumn sable Jun 25, 2020, 8:08 PM

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very niche

tidal flame Jun 25, 2020, 8:09 PM

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But not out of love

daring hedge Jun 25, 2020, 8:09 PM

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yeah true, i just wish there was something notable for it outside that niche

tidal flame Jun 25, 2020, 8:09 PM

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Hestia is a more reliable Zag Bow

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Which makes me a bit sad

mossy zinc Jun 25, 2020, 8:13 PM

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Coronacht is your favorite weapon, right?

solid mason Jun 25, 2020, 8:14 PM

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I don't even know what my favourite is any more. Still probably shield really.

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Oh, I got a Flameater yesterday. That was different.

mossy zinc Jun 25, 2020, 8:15 PM

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Congratulations.

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I have caught a Chlam today.

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It's a rare occurence.

solid mason Jun 25, 2020, 8:16 PM

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...Bloody youngsters.

daring hedge Jun 25, 2020, 8:16 PM

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oh nice, i haven't gotten one in ages

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finally got set on gupps for the codex

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also sorry this isn't high heat related whoops

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well, i am catching them while on high heat runs

tidal flame Jun 25, 2020, 8:16 PM

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No it's high heat

daring hedge Jun 25, 2020, 8:16 PM

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it counts

mossy zinc Jun 25, 2020, 8:17 PM

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Yeah, catching common fish is the hardest part of the game.

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@solid mason what's your highest heat now?

solid mason Jun 25, 2020, 8:18 PM

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Uh...I think I did a six? I should be done eating in a few minutes and boot it up.

mossy zinc Jun 25, 2020, 8:19 PM

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Do 20. squirtnya

tidal flame Jun 25, 2020, 8:19 PM

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There is a 6GB download waiting

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If you haven't played in a while

solid mason Jun 25, 2020, 8:21 PM

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Nah, got that yesterday.

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Ah, no. Last victory screenie from first patched run says highest is 5. I must have failed the 6 run.

mossy zinc Jun 25, 2020, 9:13 PM

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Hades fight is a lot easier with Demeter Aspect. A lot more burst damage.

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Just generally much better damage.

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I can make essentially the same build except I also get Deadly Flourish.

cloud kelp Jun 25, 2020, 9:20 PM

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is upgrading arthur worth it? and did anyone try the new shield and can tell me reviews and thoughts

tidal flame Jun 25, 2020, 9:24 PM

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You don't have to

tired charm Jun 25, 2020, 9:24 PM

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I'm undecided on it atm

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great burst damage and flares are interesting

tidal flame Jun 25, 2020, 9:24 PM

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I rarely stay in the zone anyhow

tired charm Jun 25, 2020, 9:24 PM

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but I'm not quite used to the fighting style

mossy zinc Jun 25, 2020, 9:28 PM

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If you're doing high heat, you should have your aspect maxed out.

ornate jacinth Jun 25, 2020, 10:38 PM

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rail special can be fun with the cluster bomb

tribal eagle Jun 25, 2020, 10:56 PM

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Whenever someone says FO makes things unviable I get baffled because I didn't change my builds whatsoever from before it when I started using it

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If anything my builds got more diverse because some things became valuable enough to contend with the big ones

torn vapor Jun 25, 2020, 10:59 PM

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Well, people like to state their opinions and experiences as facts.

tribal eagle Jun 25, 2020, 10:59 PM

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Hmm

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Fair

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I guess it makes more jank builds worse

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It definitely forces you to focus more on playing to win

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But it's also imo the most fun pact option

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But I'm weird

autumn sable Jun 25, 2020, 11:01 PM

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i dunno if anyone in this particular channel ever says FO2 makes things unviable

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more difficult, maybe

torn vapor Jun 25, 2020, 11:02 PM

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You'd be surprised.

tribal eagle Jun 25, 2020, 11:02 PM

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Someone in feedback said it

autumn sable Jun 25, 2020, 11:02 PM

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this channel is relatively new, so there's time

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yeah, but that's feedback

tribal eagle Jun 25, 2020, 11:03 PM

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Fair lol

autumn sable Jun 25, 2020, 11:03 PM

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and that's someone's experience

zinc scarab Jun 25, 2020, 11:05 PM

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I know wriste complains about arthur with fo2

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slower longer attacks like rama or arthur will "start to struggle" with fo2

tribal eagle Jun 25, 2020, 11:06 PM

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Definitely

twin sky Jun 25, 2020, 11:19 PM

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Oh yeah, I should try Arthur without FO2. I’ve never been that successful with Arthur.

hallow stream Jun 25, 2020, 11:44 PM

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arthur with FO2 is so many worlds different from FO1

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there are a select few weapons that FO2 makes practically unplayable at high heats, at least without extremely specific conditions being met

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Rama probably has similar issues, but I can't say from too much experience

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the more time a weapon takes to get its damage numbers on the board, though, the harder FO2 is for it

zinc scarab Jun 25, 2020, 11:46 PM

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See? He complains

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clearly not even good at this game

hallow stream Jun 25, 2020, 11:47 PM

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however, we need to keep in mind that these complaints are directed at high heat, where every Pact option is amplified by the others

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in a medium-ish heat scenario, you can probably deal with most things, because you can ignore options that would make another option bad

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Arthur could deal with FO2 and DC2 if it didn't need to worry about time - a 20 heat setup with these settings is probably doable with reasonable consistency

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so it's not just the FO2 we're talking about, but everything that comes with it, and the weaknesses that FO2 exacerbates in that weapon

zinc scarab Jun 25, 2020, 11:48 PM

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I'd imagine DC1 is fine, but DC2 not so much

hallow stream Jun 25, 2020, 11:49 PM

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I did my 43 heat run with DC1 - so it is doable

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although this was a slightly stronger Arthur

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in any case, it's good to keep in mind that when/if we make some kind of complaint about FO2, it's not in a vacuum

zinc scarab Jun 25, 2020, 11:50 PM

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That's a good point

hallow stream Jun 25, 2020, 11:53 PM

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also worth noting that a complaint about FO2 isn't a vilification of the pact option

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or at least it shouldn't be

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the main takeaway is that, for this particular aspect, this particular pact is a major limiting factor

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in the same way DCX is limiting for some weapons like Arthur, or Zag Bow, but not limiting at all for weapons like Chaos Shield

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the weapon is more ill-equipped to deal with those pacts due to its moveset

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this is also why certain weapons will just never be able to make it above a certain heat (without severe routing, etc), and this is also why Chaos Shield is a dominant strategy when it comes to overcoming high heat - because its moveset doesn't have the same limitations that other weapons have

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lots of pacts that exacerbate the already notable weaknesses of a certain weapon are significantly more impactful, and Chaos Shield doesn't have this kind of problem

tidal flame Jun 25, 2020, 11:56 PM

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Krasher who are you and what did you do to the real Krashercorr

hallow stream Jun 25, 2020, 11:58 PM

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do I sound like Krasher lol

autumn sable Jun 25, 2020, 11:58 PM

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I think he’s referring to the avatar change

hallow stream Jun 25, 2020, 11:58 PM

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oh lol

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it's a sick avatar

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it's time for a paddlin'

autumn sable Jun 25, 2020, 11:59 PM

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I’m in no place to be making thoughtful, nuanced comments about Arthur

hallow stream Jun 26, 2020, 12:00 AM

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ANYWAY

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thanks for coming to my ted talk

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 12:00 AM

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I only stand by saying unviable is a strong word

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Only that things are significantly more difficult

tidal flame Jun 26, 2020, 12:01 AM

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Are you attempt another high heat run with Hestia soon?

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In my limited 40 heat run, I find it very fun.

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Ricochet Bullet is so good

hallow stream Jun 26, 2020, 12:01 AM

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I might - doing fisting stuff

tidal flame Jun 26, 2020, 12:02 AM

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Fair enough

hallow stream Jun 26, 2020, 12:02 AM

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piercing shot is still more reliable than ricochet, in my experience

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ricochet misses a little too often

tidal flame Jun 26, 2020, 12:02 AM

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Yeah I was about to say

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Also Ricochet doesn't work with Explosive

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Likely a bug but I learned that the hard way haha

torn vapor Jun 26, 2020, 12:02 AM

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Have you reported it?

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 12:02 AM

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Interesting

tidal flame Jun 26, 2020, 12:03 AM

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I did

torn vapor Jun 26, 2020, 12:03 AM

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Thanks friendly

tidal flame Jun 26, 2020, 12:03 AM

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Along the the missing spec aiming indicator on Special Rail

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 12:03 AM

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That seems like a combo that would really help consistency

tidal flame Jun 26, 2020, 12:03 AM

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Yeah. I'm very sure that's not working as intended

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I have recordings of it.

hallow stream Jun 26, 2020, 12:04 AM

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completely off topic

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foxhope, if I ever see you in real life, and you're not a dopey yellow dog

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I'm going to be very disappointed

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 12:04 AM

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Although, I guess there’s an argument that you shouldn’t need a hammer for consistency

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(Cough, dash upper)

hallow stream Jun 26, 2020, 12:05 AM

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I have those feelings about the spear's spin attack

tidal flame Jun 26, 2020, 12:05 AM

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foxhope, if I ever see you in real life, and you're not a dopey yellow dog
Get used to disappointment xD

hallow stream Jun 26, 2020, 12:05 AM

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I mean, I do talk to you

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so I am used to it

tidal flame Jun 26, 2020, 12:06 AM

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Although, I guess there’s an argument that you shouldn’t need a hammer for consistency
Cry in bow

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 12:06 AM

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40+ without Breaching Cross is a lot more difficult than 40+ with Breaching Cross.

hallow stream Jun 26, 2020, 12:06 AM

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drew

tired charm Jun 26, 2020, 12:06 AM

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@tidal flame Try the Rama special build

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where you just gimp attack

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 12:07 AM

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He's using Hestia bow.

tidal flame Jun 26, 2020, 12:07 AM

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I'm a bit allergic to bow special

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 12:07 AM

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Or at least he's telling himself it's a bow.

tidal flame Jun 26, 2020, 12:07 AM

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We've been over this

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Every weapon is bow

hallow stream Jun 26, 2020, 12:08 AM

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bow is a state of mind

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 12:08 AM

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Rama special has similar issues to Lucifer at high heat: mobility

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 12:08 AM

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To not feel so bad about forsaking bow for it.

tidal flame Jun 26, 2020, 12:08 AM

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where you just gimp attack
Hmm fair, I should try that

tired charm Jun 26, 2020, 12:08 AM

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the Dio builds are actually pretty solid imo

tidal flame Jun 26, 2020, 12:08 AM

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It's the reverse of my bow guide

tired charm Jun 26, 2020, 12:08 AM

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but it can be a bit finicky

tidal flame Jun 26, 2020, 12:09 AM

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Now I unbind attack instead instead of special

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 12:09 AM

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But only one of those has the dps to offset squirtheh

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@mossy zinc I think you should really try Demeter with Divine Strike. It makes the dash upper approach really safe since you can hide it behind the deflect box.

daring hedge Jun 26, 2020, 12:16 AM

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krasher why would you encourage more divine strike

hallow stream Jun 26, 2020, 12:17 AM

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can you imagine her needing encouraging to use divine strike

tired charm Jun 26, 2020, 12:17 AM

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Everyone knows Athena is the one true build

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 12:17 AM

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Cause I’m busy testing high heat builds without Athena

daring hedge Jun 26, 2020, 12:17 AM

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true

tired charm Jun 26, 2020, 12:17 AM

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How are you suggest we can have variety

daring hedge Jun 26, 2020, 12:17 AM

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she was going to do it anyways

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 12:18 AM

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So far, I really think @daring hedge strat is maybe the best bet for high heat as an alternative

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 12:18 AM

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I'm doing that already, yeah.

tidal flame Jun 26, 2020, 12:19 AM

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Which one?

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Lightning Strike or Doom?

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 12:19 AM

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Same build I use on Zag Aspect but with Deadly Flourish.

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 12:20 AM

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Just cause of the crowd control. I guess it’s actually Fox’s since he’s all about the Zeus fist

tidal flame Jun 26, 2020, 12:20 AM

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It doesn't matter

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 12:20 AM

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The Hades fight is way easier and faster that way.

tidal flame Jun 26, 2020, 12:20 AM

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I just wanted some clarity lol

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 12:21 AM

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The alternative that I found to work okay really hinges on getting explosive upper

tidal flame Jun 26, 2020, 12:21 AM

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Demeter is strong, but I wonder which flourish to put on it

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 12:22 AM

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Deadly Flourish benefits the most from Hunter Dash by far.

daring hedge Jun 26, 2020, 12:22 AM

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aphro and artemis feel like the best ones pretty much no contest

tidal flame Jun 26, 2020, 12:22 AM

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You probably want divine dash on that tbh

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 12:22 AM

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I’ve been trying mostly Aphro and Artemis

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Some Demeter

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Poseidon for a trash run

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 12:22 AM

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You probably want divine dash on that tbh
Not really.

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You want DPS.

tidal flame Jun 26, 2020, 12:23 AM

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What about Frost Flourish

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 12:23 AM

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Unsurprising, I’m sure but I wanted to give it a shot

tidal flame Jun 26, 2020, 12:23 AM

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You want DPS.
No you don't if you have Rare Lightning Strike or better

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 12:23 AM

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She’s running Athena attack

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I’m doing something completely different

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 12:28 AM

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I'm still learning new things about using Divine Strike all the time.

hallow stream Jun 26, 2020, 1:02 AM

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@mossy zinc trying the hades fight if you wanna swing by

hallow stream Jun 26, 2020, 1:25 AM

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or nevermind - I'm dropping all of my frames lol

tidal flame Jun 26, 2020, 1:57 AM

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Lol F

zinc scarab Jun 26, 2020, 1:59 AM

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I'm curious, did the family favorite nerf come alongside family favorites now being multiplicative or is it still additive?

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If it was changed the nerf would make a lot more sense

honest kernel Jun 26, 2020, 2:09 AM

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Still additive.

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If it were multiplicative it'd be hella busted.

zinc scarab Jun 26, 2020, 2:12 AM

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Priviledged status is 40% multiplicative for two curses

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not easy, but not hard to get on many builds

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assuming you get 4-6 different gods in a run, i'd argue the overall value of the boons in your build are lesser (you're less likely to have tier 2's, duos, and legendaries)

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but a consistent multiplier of 20-30%

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Theoretically at least, it doesn't sound overpowered

tidal flame Jun 26, 2020, 2:50 AM

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I just whiffed my Shady charge in the Elysium boss fight 😦

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 2:54 AM

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that sounds like anti-high-heat strategy, tbh

tidal flame Jun 26, 2020, 2:55 AM

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hey now negative result is still result

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although I though we solved the high heat strategy?

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don't get hit

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 2:56 AM

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writes notes

tidal flame Jun 26, 2020, 2:56 AM

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how do you dodge the bullet hell in the Meg/Alecto fight?

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or do you just kinda tank it?

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 2:56 AM

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dash away

tidal flame Jun 26, 2020, 2:57 AM

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that sounds too cowardice for me

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 2:57 AM

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it's easier to dodge the further you are cause they spread radially

tidal flame Jun 26, 2020, 2:57 AM

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I'm never one screen away from the boss

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 2:58 AM

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you only need to be a screen away to stand inbetween them

tidal flame Jun 26, 2020, 2:58 AM

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between who?

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 2:58 AM

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the bullets

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for meg

tidal flame Jun 26, 2020, 2:59 AM

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oh yeah

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 2:59 AM

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and alecto?

tidal flame Jun 26, 2020, 2:59 AM

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how about alecto

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 2:59 AM

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alectos is just megs isn't it?

tidal flame Jun 26, 2020, 2:59 AM

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well she charges her rage

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if i'm close might as well tank it

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 2:59 AM

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alecto's is like megs, i'm pretty sure

tidal flame Jun 26, 2020, 2:59 AM

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alecto's doesn't move

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 2:59 AM

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tisiphone is the one where you actually have to dash through

tidal flame Jun 26, 2020, 3:00 AM

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yeah, I have no problem with tis

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I can consistently 1 or 2 hit her

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Alecto and Meg is a mixed bag though, mostly the bullet hell

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and Meg's deceptively large whip twirl

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 3:01 AM

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I find Meg's bullet hell trickier but I'm pretty sure you can dodge both the same way

tidal flame Jun 26, 2020, 3:02 AM

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also i'm loving ricochet hestia

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it's so nice

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it's like playing chain shot bow

limber sorrel Jun 26, 2020, 3:19 AM

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Easiest way to deal with megs bullet hell is special spam with spear, bow, shield directly at her

tidal flame Jun 26, 2020, 3:20 AM

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cry in fists xD

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 3:20 AM

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that's attack spam with athena

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slightly different

limber sorrel Jun 26, 2020, 3:22 AM

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It worked for me with or without athena

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Though I haven’t tested it in a while as I’m usually so up in megs face she dies before that move gets used

fading star Jun 26, 2020, 3:42 AM

#

Hey @autumn sable I see you're doing the fantastic work of upkeeping the high/challenge heat sheets. How do you want us to report that to you?

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 3:42 AM

#

don't worry, I can sniff out a high heat run anywhere

#

jk, you can send anything to me via discord

fading star Jun 26, 2020, 3:43 AM

#

That's quite the nose

#

:D

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 3:43 AM

#

did you finish that rama run?

fading star Jun 26, 2020, 3:44 AM

#

No, but I did get surprisingly far with it considering it was the second time I've used it, lol

#

I did finish a 44 heat Twin Fists though.

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 3:44 AM

#

yes you did, I saw that one

fading star Jun 26, 2020, 3:44 AM

#

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKkAcOLVx9g

YouTube

Resqtoaster

Epic 44 Heat Twin Fists Victory!

This was about as close as you could get for a win. Enjoy!

▶ Play video

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 3:45 AM

#

perfect, i can update it now

fading star Jun 26, 2020, 3:45 AM

#

I finally got that online. Since you are doing all this work, let me know if you want me to send the information like the final build or whatnot. Anything to make it easiest for you is great for me

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 3:46 AM

#

it's all good, I like to watch through them myself to see if I can learn anything from other players

#

I just try to update the list with youtube versions of the twitch vods if necessary

fading star Jun 26, 2020, 3:48 AM

#

Yeah, I like to learn from others too! I've definitely had many, "oh wow, I didn't know about that!" moments

#

Wow, is there really no high heat sword persons?

#

Wait, Wriste!

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 3:49 AM

#

yeah, wriste has Arthur

fading star Jun 26, 2020, 3:50 AM

#

And no other spears than Guan Yu?

#

So weird.

tribal eagle Jun 26, 2020, 3:50 AM

#

The other spears aren't all that good sadly

fading star Jun 26, 2020, 3:50 AM

#

I want to believe in the Achilles spear

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 3:51 AM

#

@daring hedge has some 40 Hades Aspect completions and has taken upon himself to go through that hell on higher heat

fading star Jun 26, 2020, 3:51 AM

#

Oh I just saw that

#

I used to run a lot of Hades spear aspect. You definitely need quick spin

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 3:52 AM

#

@hallow stream has failed a lot of high heat Hades spear if you wanna count those too squirtnya

daring hedge Jun 26, 2020, 3:52 AM

#

i simply love to suffer

fading star Jun 26, 2020, 3:52 AM

#

hahahah

#

@daring hedge you will unlock the secret to the Hades spear if you continue to suffer

#

I feel it, in the bones

daring hedge Jun 26, 2020, 3:53 AM

#

it's true, you're right

#

someday this will be worth it

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 3:53 AM

#

should just rename this channel to "Suffer Strategies" tbh

daring hedge Jun 26, 2020, 3:53 AM

#

lol

fading star Jun 26, 2020, 3:53 AM

#

HA!

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 3:53 AM

#

I've cleared 11 heat and have a total of 23 Varatha runs if that counts.

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 3:54 AM

#

if those were all Hades, that's 23 more than me

fading star Jun 26, 2020, 3:54 AM

#

Sounds legit to me

daring hedge Jun 26, 2020, 3:54 AM

#

hey that's 15 whole runs more than your rail

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 3:54 AM

#

Evidence. https://imgur.com/a/D6dx4wG

Imgur

#

It is lol.

frail crane Jun 26, 2020, 3:54 AM

#

lmao

fading star Jun 26, 2020, 3:54 AM

#

Oh lord... do I even want to see my stats?

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 3:54 AM

#

Will they be similar? lol

fading star Jun 26, 2020, 3:55 AM

#

It will likely demonstrate catastrophic failure. Your stats look reasonable

#

https://imgur.com/a/x4uLYvQ

Imgur

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 3:57 AM

#

All that matters is that one 44.

fading star Jun 26, 2020, 3:57 AM

#

That 44 heat win was amazing. Felt so good

#

Look how fast it was! lol

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 3:58 AM

#

46 win doesn't matter because it's a cheap weapon. Only honest Malphon wins count. squirtnya

fading star Jun 26, 2020, 3:58 AM

#

I'm only good with the Zag aspect though. The others I have barely played

limber sorrel Jun 26, 2020, 3:59 AM

#

I struggle with fists but that might be because I was running a meedlessly difficult heat page

daring hedge Jun 26, 2020, 3:59 AM

#

i bet you'd get used to demeter pretty fast, it's pretty much the same except you get rewarded with some burst for just doing normal fist activities such as: punching, and punching some more

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 4:00 AM

#

I do the same thing with Demeter except I also Dash-Upper occasionally when it's charged. Same build, too, except I also have Deadly Flourish or Heartbreak Flourish.

limber sorrel Jun 26, 2020, 4:00 AM

#

What fist aspect is the best for high heat?

daring hedge Jun 26, 2020, 4:00 AM

#

hard to say, really

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 4:01 AM

#

Talos

daring hedge Jun 26, 2020, 4:01 AM

#

zag and demeter both can do great. talos is kinda weird

#

lol

#

we just need someone to solve talos and become a god

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 4:01 AM

#

Talos is good.

fading star Jun 26, 2020, 4:01 AM

#

Talos? Isn't that the magnetic one?

daring hedge Jun 26, 2020, 4:01 AM

#

yeah

#

i just call it weird because i don't use it much

#

and the pulling throws me off

fading star Jun 26, 2020, 4:02 AM

#

I haven't played it since the update. I'd love a hammer upgrade to do a mass pull if it isn't implemented

#

Then I could imagine doing some insane stuff with it

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 4:02 AM

#

Demeter has the highest DPS, although with Merciful End on Zag that doesn't matter too much.

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 4:02 AM

#

i can only imagine pulling a big group of armored thugs on top of you

limber sorrel Jun 26, 2020, 4:03 AM

#

Like when i use demeter I only special if it’s charged

When I talos I feel like I’m building improperly

Demeter has good special, and talos focuses on attack or cast

daring hedge Jun 26, 2020, 4:03 AM

#

cloning, DC2 attack+ thugs all on you at once

limber sorrel Jun 26, 2020, 4:03 AM

#

What’s merciful end again?

tidal flame Jun 26, 2020, 4:04 AM

#

Doom trigger on deflect

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 4:04 AM

#

You can build Talos the same way you build the other aspects.

daring hedge Jun 26, 2020, 4:04 AM

#

deflect boons instantly proc doom, and grant a bonus of 50 extra damage

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 4:04 AM

#

But you can easily pull out enemies from groups or pull and backstab any enemies easily.

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 4:04 AM

#

i still think merciful end is probably the higher sustained dps build

#

but building demeter is a lot more reliable

daring hedge Jun 26, 2020, 4:05 AM

#

yeah, esp. with AP

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 4:05 AM

#

You can have Merciful End on Demeter + a Deadly Flourish or Heartbreak Flourish.

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 4:06 AM

#

i had 3 runs back to back with lightning rod offered and AP still won't cross it out

daring hedge Jun 26, 2020, 4:06 AM

#

the hidden lightning rod rate modifier

#

SGG really pushing it on us

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 4:06 AM

#

Gotta use Stygian Soul.

honest kernel Jun 26, 2020, 4:06 AM

#

This is why I run Stygian Soul, and this is why we won't get Freak Accident back for Stygian Soul.

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 4:06 AM

#

you right

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 4:07 AM

#

Pulling enemies in the Satyr Tunnels is very nice, too.

daring hedge Jun 26, 2020, 4:07 AM

#

ugh, rest in peace freak accident

#

we hardly knew ye

tidal flame Jun 26, 2020, 4:07 AM

#

is Freak Accident what they used to call the Rod?

#

that's amazing xD

daring hedge Jun 26, 2020, 4:07 AM

#

nah it was a different duo

tidal flame Jun 26, 2020, 4:07 AM

#

oh nvm

honest kernel Jun 26, 2020, 4:07 AM

#

Lightning bolt on crit.

daring hedge Jun 26, 2020, 4:07 AM

#

all crits procced bolts

honest kernel Jun 26, 2020, 4:08 AM

#

It last existed when Hunter's Mark was super busted, you could make any run crit hell with just Pressure Points and Hunter's Mark.

tidal flame Jun 26, 2020, 4:08 AM

#

wait that's p good

#

please revert SGG

daring hedge Jun 26, 2020, 4:08 AM

#

it would have singlehandedly saved my recent 41 hades aspect run if it still existed

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 4:10 AM

#

If your run still existed, that'd be weird.

tidal flame Jun 26, 2020, 4:13 AM

#

what

daring hedge Jun 26, 2020, 4:16 AM

#

what at me or at nyaa deliberately misinterpreting me and being rude

tidal flame Jun 26, 2020, 4:17 AM

#

I just don't understand the joke

daring hedge Jun 26, 2020, 4:18 AM

#

my recent 41 hades aspect run if it still existed

tidal flame Jun 26, 2020, 4:20 AM

#

ok you will have to murder the joke so I can understand it xD

#

it has been a long day

daring hedge Jun 26, 2020, 4:20 AM

#

oh it just sounds like i'm referring to the run in context of "if it still existed" if you read it like that alone

#

even though i meant freak accident

#

and nyaa coldheartedly took advantage of this

tidal flame Jun 26, 2020, 4:22 AM

#

yeah but why would your run existing be weird

#

I think my bonobo brain is not working right now xD

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 4:22 AM

#

TD2.

#

It should be in the past now.

daring hedge Jun 26, 2020, 4:23 AM

#

i'd be mondo dead many times over

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 4:23 AM

#

@fading star your 191 Malphon runs are inspiring. It's a sign I need to do more Malphon runs and only Malphon runs. squirtnya

daring hedge Jun 26, 2020, 4:24 AM

#

don't encourage her

#

don't do it

fading star Jun 26, 2020, 4:24 AM

#

Hahaha, thanks but uh, if you witnessed some of those runs, you'd be less than inspired

tired charm Jun 26, 2020, 4:24 AM

#

Malphon is the one true weapon

fading star Jun 26, 2020, 4:24 AM

#

"Hey look, DEATH! [splat]"

tired charm Jun 26, 2020, 4:24 AM

#

Embrace your inner Muhammad Ali

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 4:24 AM

#

What's important is the number of runs.

#

A lot of my ~160 runs end in Tartarus lol.

#

RI4 run, let me step onto this spike trap. failbag

daring hedge Jun 26, 2020, 4:26 AM

#

speaking of "hey look, death [splat]"

tidal flame Jun 26, 2020, 4:26 AM

#

RI4 LC4 run when?

#

people

daring hedge Jun 26, 2020, 4:26 AM

#

https://discordapp.com/channels/456889434672201729/520429929721233464/725553498896466012

#

this ending to a 41 run

tidal flame Jun 26, 2020, 4:27 AM

#

xD

#

perfect

daring hedge Jun 26, 2020, 4:27 AM

#

i was laughing so hard

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 4:27 AM

#

Perfect narration. Supergiant Games outdoing themselves.

tidal flame Jun 26, 2020, 4:31 AM

#

I love the "What could go wrong?" line when you exceed the needed heat

#

yeah, Zag, what could go wrong

daring hedge Jun 26, 2020, 4:33 AM

#

many things zag and you know this

zinc scarab Jun 26, 2020, 5:32 AM

#

Hello nerds, what is everyone up to?

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 5:33 AM

#

Why are you calling them nerds and not greeting me? squirtnya

frail crane Jun 26, 2020, 5:37 AM

#

Nyaa...I'm sorry to be the one to tell you this...you're a nerd...and it's a good thing

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 5:39 AM

#

Wait. If you're so sorry, why say it at all?

#

Doesn't check out. thanthink

frail crane Jun 26, 2020, 5:39 AM

#

because someone had to

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 5:41 AM

#

What heat are you working on now?

#

what is everyone up to?
I'll be doing some practice fights vs Hades in a bit. New save with 2 dashes, Demeter Aspect, and overall a lot more DPS.

tidal flame Jun 26, 2020, 5:42 AM

#

Hello nerds, what is everyone up to?
Sleep zzz

zinc scarab Jun 26, 2020, 5:44 AM

#

neat

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 6:07 AM

#

What heat are you working on now?
@frail crane

frail crane Jun 26, 2020, 6:07 AM

#

oh! that was to me

#

12

#

I've got 2 weapons so far

#

currently have a shield run paused

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 6:07 AM

#

You're working on all weapons equally?

frail crane Jun 26, 2020, 6:08 AM

#

for the most part? not intentionally

#

just kinda how it's flowing

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 6:08 AM

#

I see.

frail crane Jun 26, 2020, 6:08 AM

#

felt like doing a no boons run with shield

#

and didn't feel like dropping the heat

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 6:08 AM

#

Picking Dark Thirst weapons or just whatever you feel like at the moment?

frail crane Jun 26, 2020, 6:08 AM

#

mostly whatever? though shield was Dark thirst, which is good for a no boons

#

I think I'm doing EM3, FO1, MM, and BP1

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 6:09 AM

#

Dark Thirst legit helps with high heat.

frail crane Jun 26, 2020, 6:10 AM

#

yup

#

especially since I don't get darkness from bosses

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 6:11 AM

#

Well, high heat you'll be done with bounties, so it helps even more.

frail crane Jun 26, 2020, 6:11 AM

#

fair

#

I'm getting rewards for 8 heat right now on shield, iirc

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 6:17 AM

#

One reason I don't use the other weapons much is that I don't have much practice with them, but doing low heat with them now feels boring, so I'll pick the bow or something sometimes and be like "Alright, let's try 36 heat with this."

#

Which doesn't tend to end in a win lol.

frail crane Jun 26, 2020, 6:18 AM

#

that's part of why I've been using each, so I can keep relatively good with all. I've also started trying out more aspects, since I haven't unlocked them all yet

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 6:19 AM

#

I'm confident I could sweep through the lower heats with them. Just not motivated to do that.

#

Dash timing for i-frames and such doesn't change.

frail crane Jun 26, 2020, 6:20 AM

#

make it something fun

#

do a no boons run on the sword or something

#

:P

tired charm Jun 26, 2020, 6:20 AM

#

Tbh do like a ruthless dash Lambent plume speed run

#

You’re pretty good with Malphon as is

frail crane Jun 26, 2020, 6:20 AM

#

that was a nightmare with the luck I got

tired charm Jun 26, 2020, 6:21 AM

#

So like low heat meme runs could be fun

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 6:22 AM

#

Nah, I failed 36 with bow or spear last time—don't remember which.

#

So next time I'll probably do 37.

frail crane Jun 26, 2020, 6:22 AM

#

seems legit

#

or do a lower heat, with an artificial challenge

tired charm Jun 26, 2020, 6:22 AM

#

What do you lot like to run with spear these days?

frail crane Jun 26, 2020, 6:22 AM

#

aspect?

tired charm Jun 26, 2020, 6:22 AM

#

Yeah

#

Been trying to use it more

#

But like it just feels bad to use atm

#

I can’t describe it

frail crane Jun 26, 2020, 6:23 AM

#

which aspect?

tired charm Jun 26, 2020, 6:23 AM

#

Like it’s the only weapon atm that I don’t have fun with

#

Regardless of aspect

frail crane Jun 26, 2020, 6:23 AM

#

ah

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 6:23 AM

#

Should ask @daring hedge for Varatha tips.

tired charm Jun 26, 2020, 6:23 AM

#

Like my version of a Varatha run atm is to go Achilles and then build cast

#

Mostly like Poseidon Demeter or Artemis Ares

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 6:24 AM

#

I think the general concensus here is that Varatha is the weakest on high heat, and possibly overall.

frail crane Jun 26, 2020, 6:25 AM

#

I used to use it a lot (zag aspect), but then I discovered the joy that is the shield

#

so now I just sometimes do meme runs with GY

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 6:26 AM

#

Achilles Aspect with a cast build sounds fine. If you have success with it, keep doing that.

#

Just avoid DC.

#

There are also new cast duos that you should try out.

tired charm Jun 26, 2020, 6:27 AM

#

Tbh I want to like GY so badly

#

It’s fun on low heat and all

#

But not in This ball park

frail crane Jun 26, 2020, 6:28 AM

#

that's valid--not much of what I'm running is "high" heat

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 6:28 AM

#

Parting Shot sounds like it would work very well with Achilles Aspect. I'd definitely look into that.

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 6:28 AM

#

prior to blood price, breakshift was consistently getting to Hades at 49 heat, so it's not unviable

#

not sure how bad the changes to GY made that difficult

#

but I don't see it being difficult around 32

tribal eagle Jun 26, 2020, 6:29 AM

#

Apparently the hitbox nerf is fairly major

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 6:29 AM

#

the hitbox nerf is pretty bad

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 6:29 AM

#

The only change that remained is a nerf to Special base damage, right?

#

That hurts for TD2.

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 6:29 AM

#

and possibly in an unintended way

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 6:29 AM

#

Oh right.

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 6:29 AM

#

the base damage change is 50 to 45

daring hedge Jun 26, 2020, 6:29 AM

#

The hitbox nerf is definitely more noticeable and impactful than the 5 damage nerf, I feel

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 6:30 AM

#

it still does obscene damage

#

especially since you have new boons that GY can take advantage of

tired charm Jun 26, 2020, 6:30 AM

#

yeah like Guan Yu with a halfway decent special still makes the special work

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 6:30 AM

#

but the widebox it had would make crowds more difficult

tribal eagle Jun 26, 2020, 6:30 AM

#

I'm really enjoying beo rn

#

Haven't played much of it

#

But it's really fun

tired charm Jun 26, 2020, 6:30 AM

#

but I don't play it enough to know how it fairs out at extremes

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 6:32 AM

#

but right now the problem isn't so much how narrow the hitbox is but how far it travels and it blanks at close range

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 6:32 AM

#

I think Achilles Aspect has a lot of untapped potential, anyway. That's why I think if you've been using that the most, you should use that for high heat.

tired charm Jun 26, 2020, 6:32 AM

#

yeah like the spear dash boost I feel is slept on

#

and atm its the only version of Varatha I like

#

even though I'm not too fond of the weapon atm

daring hedge Jun 26, 2020, 6:33 AM

#

Isn't the occasional point blank missing attributed to the hitbox nerf anyway, though?

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 6:33 AM

#

maybe

daring hedge Jun 26, 2020, 6:33 AM

#

It would make sense especially if you visualize how that interacts

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 6:34 AM

#

but that means the GY special is the only weapon in that game that actually has a sweet spot

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 6:34 AM

#

Sounds like you have some ideas for it, and if you get more experience with it on high heat, you can give them better feedback on what you'd like for it. squirtnya

daring hedge Jun 26, 2020, 6:35 AM

#

Serrated point is definitely invaluable for Varatha's damage, I think

#

At high heat anyway

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 6:35 AM

#

@autumn sable Chaos Aspect has a sweet spot for its special.

#

It's anywhere in the room.

honest kernel Jun 26, 2020, 6:35 AM

#

Hades and Serrated Point are very powerful in tandem.

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 6:35 AM

#

lol, okay

#

actually not true

daring hedge Jun 26, 2020, 6:35 AM

#

Yep, it's how I've been getting as far as I have with 41+ on hades aspect

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 6:35 AM

#

chaos aspect is terrible if you pointblank a wall

daring hedge Jun 26, 2020, 6:36 AM

#

Otherwise it's more of a massive struggle

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 6:36 AM

#

Lol

#

So the sweet spot is not point-blank to a wall.

tired charm Jun 26, 2020, 6:37 AM

#

tough sweet spot tbh

daring hedge Jun 26, 2020, 6:37 AM

#

Especially with how you can release a dash-strike immediately following a dash spin

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 6:37 AM

#

Chaos Aspect is high skill confirmed.

frail crane Jun 26, 2020, 6:37 AM

#

oh sick

daring hedge Jun 26, 2020, 6:37 AM

#

It's a very potent combo for hades aspect

frail crane Jun 26, 2020, 6:37 AM

#

apparently I'm super high skill then

#

:3

limber sorrel Jun 26, 2020, 6:38 AM

#

how do you guys make beowolf work? I've done some runs and I like that it's kinda the most upfront damage version of the shield

However the 15% damage increase & the no blocking shield charge is testing my patience

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 6:38 AM

#

Yeah, your positioning is top tier if you can make Chaos Aspect's Special hit things.

frail crane Jun 26, 2020, 6:38 AM

#

huh

#

I guess I have better positioning than I thought

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 6:38 AM

#

i make beowulf work by unequipping it

daring hedge Jun 26, 2020, 6:38 AM

#

Gottem

tired charm Jun 26, 2020, 6:39 AM

#

tbh the removal of the block + the damage increase is super weird

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 6:39 AM

#

I've put no Titan Blood into it lol.

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 6:39 AM

#

you don't count

frail crane Jun 26, 2020, 6:39 AM

#

I haven't touched it since like two runs during beta

daring hedge Jun 26, 2020, 6:39 AM

#

For what it's worth, it's supposed to be blocking

frail crane Jun 26, 2020, 6:39 AM

#

and I'm a shield person

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 6:39 AM

#

squirtooh

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 6:39 AM

#

you don't have titan blood for anything

tribal eagle Jun 26, 2020, 6:39 AM

#

Block works

#

The block is functional

daring hedge Jun 26, 2020, 6:39 AM

#

There's apparently some bug for some people

tribal eagle Jun 26, 2020, 6:39 AM

#

If anything it's overly generous rn

daring hedge Jun 26, 2020, 6:39 AM

#

Where it doesn't

tribal eagle Jun 26, 2020, 6:39 AM

#

Hmm

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 6:40 AM

#

I've maxed out Rama.

tribal eagle Jun 26, 2020, 6:40 AM

#

I have a suspicion it's possibly a steam bug

tired charm Jun 26, 2020, 6:40 AM

#

Rama is legit fun though

#

once you realize your attack doesn't exist

#

and your mark is the better DPS option

daring hedge Jun 26, 2020, 6:40 AM

#

But Rama with twin shot chunks

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 6:40 AM

#

yeah, but that's just a poor mans Lucifer

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 6:41 AM

#

I thought so too for the 2-3 runs I've used it on day 1.

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 6:41 AM

#

Rama attack has a lot of potential, I think

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 6:41 AM

#

That it's fun.

daring hedge Jun 26, 2020, 6:41 AM

#

Then malphon cried out: "wait why aren't you using me"

tired charm Jun 26, 2020, 6:41 AM

#

tbh I need to branch out with Lucifer in general, only been doing Zeus laser

frail crane Jun 26, 2020, 6:42 AM

#

hazard bomb + big explosion + ares special

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 6:42 AM

#

@daring hedge wait, how do you know that? Have you been spying on me?

tired charm Jun 26, 2020, 6:42 AM

#

tfw Nya is actually the current aspect wielder of Malphon IRL

#

it's just in the form of skiing gloves or something

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 6:43 AM

#

Nyaanyaa Aspect will be the hidden aspect.

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 6:43 AM

#

ew

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 6:43 AM

#

That's why they're taking their time to make it perfect.

limber sorrel Jun 26, 2020, 6:43 AM

#

@tribal eagle well I've only owned hades on epic so that doesn't explain why I thought it didn't have a block feature

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 6:43 AM

#

delete it

tribal eagle Jun 26, 2020, 6:44 AM

#

Huh

tired charm Jun 26, 2020, 6:44 AM

#

tbh if trends keep up, the future aspect is probably also going to be relatively slow

#

for Malphon

tribal eagle Jun 26, 2020, 6:44 AM

#

I know on release it didn't work but it's been working for 24 hours for me

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 6:44 AM

#

Effect is all your attacks deflect naturally.

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 6:44 AM

#

why do people keep saying that?

#

Lucifer is the opposite of slow

tired charm Jun 26, 2020, 6:44 AM

#

sure, but it locks you in place

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 6:45 AM

#

Guan Yu isn't slow either.

robust zephyr Jun 26, 2020, 6:45 AM

#

because literally every other 4th aspect is slower

daring hedge Jun 26, 2020, 6:45 AM

#

To be fair, Lucifer is the exception of them

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 6:45 AM

#

all the rails lock you in place

daring hedge Jun 26, 2020, 6:45 AM

#

Guan Yu is just slower in terms of its attack combo, which you almost never fully use anyway

limber sorrel Jun 26, 2020, 6:45 AM

#

I would disagree with all rails, the sniper rail lets you just perma dash one shot reload

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 6:46 AM

#

that's fair

#

hestia is pretty mobile

robust zephyr Jun 26, 2020, 6:46 AM

#

cant you fire while dashing?

#

doesnt interrupt iirc

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 6:46 AM

#

yes, you can fire lucifer while dashing

robust zephyr Jun 26, 2020, 6:46 AM

#

og rail continues fire but adds two more shots on top of it

daring hedge Jun 26, 2020, 6:47 AM

#

Which can make for some very funny brain=off situations

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 6:47 AM

#

I can't relate to anything said in this conversation.

robust zephyr Jun 26, 2020, 6:47 AM

#

haha

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 6:47 AM

#

good

#

go away

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 6:47 AM

#

squirtooh

robust zephyr Jun 26, 2020, 6:47 AM

#

i thought the fists was just melee rail but for you rail is ranged fists

frail crane Jun 26, 2020, 6:47 AM

#

we wouldn't want you to tarnish the rail with your fists

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 6:48 AM

#

not even variety in fists

#

just athena fists

#

zzzz

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 6:48 AM

#

Rail is boring. Hestia is too safe.

frail crane Jun 26, 2020, 6:48 AM

#

Nyaa

#

go hazard bomb on Lucy

robust zephyr Jun 26, 2020, 6:48 AM

#

lucifer is easy but not boring

#

you can do alot with it

#

buildwise

limber sorrel Jun 26, 2020, 6:48 AM

#

Just take rocket rail and take the aspect where you need to be in the explosion to get bonus damage

There's nothing safe about melee range exploading rocket launcher

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 6:49 AM

#

Why would I pick a rail that's not Hestia if I take the rail? thanthink

daring hedge Jun 26, 2020, 6:49 AM

#

Rocket bomb makes eris so much more enjoyable for me

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 6:49 AM

#

i've done that build and it is pretty safe if you ask me

tired charm Jun 26, 2020, 6:49 AM

#

Because the aspect of LeBron James has a Death Star laser and shoots exploding basketballs

robust zephyr Jun 26, 2020, 6:49 AM

#

idk if hestia is better than lucifer, lucifer attack just outright eclipses everything else

tired charm Jun 26, 2020, 6:49 AM

#

Luci rail is dope

robust zephyr Jun 26, 2020, 6:50 AM

#

sure initial hit on hestia is higher but i find lucifer so much easier and stronger

limber sorrel Jun 26, 2020, 6:50 AM

#

The way I pick my aspects is simply can I play this with one boon and feel like i'm set for the whole run?

lucifer feels that way and so does hestia

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 6:50 AM

#

there are certainly situations where having burst damage is much better than sustained

#

namely boss fights

robust zephyr Jun 26, 2020, 6:50 AM

#

yea but thats really it

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 6:50 AM

#

^

tired charm Jun 26, 2020, 6:51 AM

#

Tbh the Zeus and Aphro focused setups even on their own feel almost too good to overlook on L

robust zephyr Jun 26, 2020, 6:51 AM

#

hestia suffer against crowds without piercing fire

#

its overkill for numbskulls

tired charm Jun 26, 2020, 6:51 AM

#

Even with Hestia’s sniperino shenanigans

limber sorrel Jun 26, 2020, 6:51 AM

#

yeah hestia aoe sucks but being able to 2/3 shot troublesome enemies with good accuracy makes up for it imo

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 6:51 AM

#

bosses end most people's runs

#

so I wouldn't say "that's it"

robust zephyr Jun 26, 2020, 6:51 AM

#

but lucifers pretty much good against both since you will kill them fast both bosses and small mobs

#

all i even need is privileged status and 1 good hammer and manage a high heat win with lucifer

#

its quite easy to get going

tired charm Jun 26, 2020, 6:53 AM

#

Tbh Aphro attack and drunk dash

#

Legit all I need

limber sorrel Jun 26, 2020, 6:53 AM

#

I really enjoy having lucifer for hydra fight because the ability to just throw them near some heads and watch them tick away is so satisfying

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 6:54 AM

#

I'd probably play rail more if Hestia was maxed out.

robust zephyr Jun 26, 2020, 6:54 AM

#

what do u even use titan blood on

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 6:54 AM

#

But on 40 heat minimum.

robust zephyr Jun 26, 2020, 6:54 AM

#

if you dont max things out

daring hedge Jun 26, 2020, 6:54 AM

#

Don't you have the blood?

tired charm Jun 26, 2020, 6:54 AM

#

Tbh just do farm runs you nut

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 6:54 AM

#

I don't get Titan Blood from Malphon runs lol.

robust zephyr Jun 26, 2020, 6:54 AM

#

oh you dont farm at all

tired charm Jun 26, 2020, 6:54 AM

#

Use Stygius then

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 6:54 AM

#

she literally does not use other weapons

robust zephyr Jun 26, 2020, 6:55 AM

#

wow

daring hedge Jun 26, 2020, 6:55 AM

#

Right, that whole facet lol

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 6:55 AM

#

and still manages to try and ego everyone about it

robust zephyr Jun 26, 2020, 6:55 AM

#

thats was like me with the nemesis sword when i first started this game

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 6:55 AM

#

zzzz

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 6:55 AM

#

Farm runs bore me lol. I farm by succeeding or failing on high heat.

robust zephyr Jun 26, 2020, 6:55 AM

#

i kinda still have like 3 weapons i use more often than others

#

sword, shield and rail

tired charm Jun 26, 2020, 6:55 AM

#

Sword by far in my case

robust zephyr Jun 26, 2020, 6:55 AM

#

i just have some weird attraction to melee runs whenever i play roguelite

tired charm Jun 26, 2020, 6:55 AM

#

Used to be a lot of Arthur but recently I’ve been using vanilla Stygius

robust zephyr Jun 26, 2020, 6:56 AM

#

even though i hated zag aspect as first

daring hedge Jun 26, 2020, 6:56 AM

#

I mean doing bounties on other weapons isn't necessarily just for farming. It's just playing the game casually, for fun. And you also get bounties

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 6:56 AM

#

Farm runs bore me lol. I farm by succeeding or failing on high heat.
"succeeding" every other weapon at 12 heat

daring hedge Jun 26, 2020, 6:56 AM

#

And you can improv speedrun if you like at the same time

limber sorrel Jun 26, 2020, 6:56 AM

#

Honestly I just enjoy improving at every weapon

robust zephyr Jun 26, 2020, 6:56 AM

#

i can get the drive behind mastering a single weapon though

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 6:57 AM

#

Yeah, but lately the lower heats bore me.

tired charm Jun 26, 2020, 6:57 AM

#

Tbh does Nya even switch aspects these days or is it all Demeter?

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 6:57 AM

#

It's a bit more fun on my Hell mode save where I don't have the full mirror and stuff yet.

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 6:58 AM

#

should just farm a hell mode save so you can have exclusive hell mode high heat runs

robust zephyr Jun 26, 2020, 6:58 AM

#

you think they will add any more weapons? because what will we do with titan bloods after theres no more things to use it on

daring hedge Jun 26, 2020, 6:58 AM

#

Free personal liability heat

#

Chaching

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 6:58 AM

#

I'm raising that save on the side. It's a nice change of pace sometimes.

tired charm Jun 26, 2020, 6:58 AM

#

Probably some other build projects at the house that use blood is my guess

#

Something something titan floor tiles

robust zephyr Jun 26, 2020, 6:59 AM

#

or finally be able to trade it for the resource that actually matters ~~gems~~

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 6:59 AM

#

the game actually doesn't naturally have enough titan blood for every single aspect (including the unreleased fist)

#

through weapon bounties only

daring hedge Jun 26, 2020, 6:59 AM

#

Considering the changes made to Hell Mode already, I wouldn't be surprised if PL got added to normal save pacts as well

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 7:00 AM

#

@tired charm I've only started using Demeter Aspect again yesterday lol. I'd been using Zag and Talos exclusively for awhile.

daring hedge Jun 26, 2020, 7:00 AM

#

Making hell mode even more of a minor difference overall lol

robust zephyr Jun 26, 2020, 7:00 AM

#

but what about those one in a million times i get a fish in chaos

tired charm Jun 26, 2020, 7:01 AM

#

Tbh I’m legit considering doing just several egg runs

#

I need those chaos fish

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 7:01 AM

#

You can trade in your Titan Blood for Gemstones is what you'll get when you have all the aspects maxed out.

robust zephyr Jun 26, 2020, 7:01 AM

#

oh yesss

#

then i can get all those statues that i need

tired charm Jun 26, 2020, 7:02 AM

#

More snarky comments from Dad about how I’m spending my wealth on opulent furniture and art

#

🙏

robust zephyr Jun 26, 2020, 7:02 AM

#

recently got Dad a new chair

#

waiting to get the other ones

frail crane Jun 26, 2020, 7:05 AM

#

friggen heck

#

I'm getting a 5-sack on a no boons run

#

this could end the run

#

I'm out of rerolls

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 7:05 AM

#

Just keep calm.

frail crane Jun 26, 2020, 7:05 AM

#

yeah

#

I am

#

just...

#

if I get an attack boon and I can't sell it

#

I'm going into hades with just special

#

on chaos shield

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 7:06 AM

#

Well, you don't have AP, right? Should be fine.

frail crane Jun 26, 2020, 7:07 AM

#

ye

#

YES

#

POSEIDON THANK YOU

#

sunken treasure

#

I'm safe

#

or not...

#

actually

#

I can intentionally waste battle rage

#

alright, I'm going in

#

o7

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 7:10 AM

#

thanks for narrating your run

frail crane Jun 26, 2020, 7:10 AM

#

:P

#

of course

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 7:10 AM

#

i'll be sure to recall it in my next high heat strat

frail crane Jun 26, 2020, 7:10 AM

#

how else can I enjoy myself without constant expression and validation?

#

I'm sleepy :P I'll chill tho ^.^

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 7:10 AM

#

Don't die (until after you win).

#

@autumn sable when is 40+?

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 7:11 AM

#

dunno

#

however long it takes me before I give up and use divine strike

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 7:12 AM

#

Are you trying it with Malphon?

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 7:12 AM

#

yeah

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 7:12 AM

#

What's killing you?

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 7:13 AM

#

damage

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 7:14 AM

#

Not enough DPS?

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 7:14 AM

#

nah

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 7:15 AM

#

What are your pacts?

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 7:15 AM

#

you'll see when it's done

#

if it gets done

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 7:16 AM

#

Fine, don't let me help then. squirtooh

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 7:16 AM

#

do you have experience with high heat malphon runs without athena?

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 7:17 AM

#

I have plenty of Malphon experience overall.

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 7:17 AM

#

so do I

#

you're not the only malphon user

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 7:17 AM

#

?

#

I've never said I was.

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 7:18 AM

#

i'm just doing some experimentation

#

to see if an ultra high heat can be done without athena

#

and what that even means

#

cause i'm curious if the consensus that melee weapons really need athena is really true or not

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 7:20 AM

#

Hmm. Stuff like the Witches' Circle will be difficult.

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 7:20 AM

#

cause that seems a little problematic

#

i thought so too

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 7:20 AM

#

I actually don't think they need deflect.

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 7:21 AM

#

but witches circle has not actually been a problem for me so far

limber sorrel Jun 26, 2020, 7:21 AM

#

@autumn sable Even if through bounties there aren't enough titans blood for the unreleased fist aspect, there's about 20 or so titans blood from the fated list

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 7:21 AM

#

that's included

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 7:22 AM

#

Hades fight with or without deflect isn't too different with Malphon.

limber sorrel Jun 26, 2020, 7:22 AM

#

ah okay

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 7:23 AM

#

You can't reliably deflect him intentionally anyway, in my experience.

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 7:23 AM

#

we've talked about that

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 7:23 AM

#

It helps, but you're not playing that fight differently.

limber sorrel Jun 26, 2020, 7:23 AM

#

Honestly hades fight I just focus on hitting him and dodging

#

if I deflect I deflect

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 7:23 AM

#

Pretty much.

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 7:24 AM

#

Hades is probably lower on my concern list with not having athena

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 7:24 AM

#

Right. I'm just brainstorming.

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 7:24 AM

#

i think i'm most concerned about time

#

in elysium

#

like everyone else

limber sorrel Jun 26, 2020, 7:25 AM

#

my biggest concern in the game is when getting put with|| tiny rat in styx||

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 7:25 AM

#

Asterius takes longer without deflect.

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 7:26 AM

#

not really

#

he's mostly easy to get behind

#

and his jumps are easy to dash

#

and I use damage summons anyway

#

which is usually a solid 1/3 of his health approximately

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 7:27 AM

#

I suppose so, but deflecting his attacks with Brilliant Riposte and/or Deadly Reversal does a lot of damage, and you can deflect him very reliably.

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 7:27 AM

#

the elysium adds are generally the most dangerous part, I think so far

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 7:28 AM

#

I can see that, yeah.

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 7:28 AM

#

you can't really out range the spears even with long knuckle

#

and they turn relatively quick

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 7:29 AM

#

They're dangerous even with deflect because they have a lot of AOE damage, and deflecting Longspears isn't reliable.

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 7:29 AM

#

so staying behind them can get really tricky

#

i just need more practice in elysium, that's all

#

most of the run is just boiling down to playing better

#

ultimately

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 7:30 AM

#

I just hit and run and try to un-cluster them, so there's always one I can attack.

#

Yeah, I believe in you. squirtnya

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 7:31 AM

#

thanks, just gotta keep playing the BP rng

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 7:32 AM

#

I've been wanting to do non-deflect on 40+, but right now I want to push higher and get better at using Divine Strike. I'm still learning every day.

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 7:33 AM

#

i honestly think that 45+ is much more reasonable with divine strike

#

not easy, but doable

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 7:34 AM

#

DPS is a problem, which I'm hoping Demeter Aspect will solve.

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 7:34 AM

#

yeah, i think it'll help you get there

#

and the speed loss I think only matters for a small portion of the adds

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 7:35 AM

#

It actually doesn't matter. The evasion loss hurts more, I think.

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 7:35 AM

#

yeah, i was about to say

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 7:36 AM

#

But the damage makes up for it.

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 7:36 AM

#

i had a few runs with hermes dodge and I felt like I was just a bootleg Zag

#

we'll see how long I'm willing to suffer through this experiment. I'm just curious from a boon balance standpoint.

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 7:47 AM

#

Yeah, same.

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 7:51 AM

#

And sorry, I wasn't being guarded about my pacts for any reason other than I've just been messing around with them a lot

#

not that there's a lot of choices to mess around with

#

mostly just JS, RI, and AP at this point

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 7:56 AM

#

I don't know what heat you're trying.

#

Low 40 leaves more wiggle room than high 40.

#

Convenience Fee in my opinion can hurt a lot. CF1 instead of CF2 at least can help with TD2 in Elysium.

#

Simply because you can afford more boons.

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 7:59 AM

#

i'm around 45 give or take my swaps

#

so just about everything is maxed cept for the three i mentioned

#

and....calisthenics?

#

i'm trying to avoid AP2

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 8:00 AM

#

AP2 is just RNG.

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 8:00 AM

#

it's too much rng

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 8:01 AM

#

Roll the dice until you get a build that can actually clear Elysium.

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 8:01 AM

#

especially on demeter

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 8:02 AM

#

"Here, pick this Curse of Pain on Demeter and this Tidal Dash. Good luck in Elysium if you can make it that far!"—AP2 probably

#

I've had a very good Deadly Reversal run end in Elysium because somebody decided to replace my Divine Strike, and I had no rerolls lol.

#

Everything up to that point went just right.

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 8:06 AM

#

that is, I think, the biggest downside to AP2, choosing between two gods on doors shouldn't boil down to "what could hurt me least"?

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 8:06 AM

#

Yeah. But it's something we do to ourselves even aiming that high and picking that pact lol.

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 8:07 AM

#

maybe that in and of itself is less a pact issue and more a boon issue

#

i'm not totally sure

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 8:07 AM

#

AP2 is pretty fun on low heat.

#

You don't lose a run to getting a "bad" boon, so you just improvise with what you get.

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 8:08 AM

#

definitely a lark of a run

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 10:55 AM

#

@fading star do you also feel as though Rolling Knuckle's Dash-Strike has more recovery now than in Nighty Night? I don't know if I'm imagining it or if it's maybe a bug or something; the patch notes don't mention anything. I feel as though there is a gap now when holding down Attack that wasn't there before.

#

I'm pretty sure I could perma-stunlock enemies before with Rolling Knuckle. But now there's a small gap, and the damage counter resets.

#

Hmm you know what, maybe that's a difference between Zag Aspect and the others that I hadn't paid close attention to.

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 2:04 PM

#

Hmm. 364 HP to beat Max-Hades this time. But I usually need 500+. Wanna cut that down to sub 300.

#

Sadly, he never summons Bloodless on this save, so I'll need to make another practice save to fight that variant.

fading star Jun 26, 2020, 2:06 PM

#

@mossy zinc there is definitely a longer pause after the Rolling Knuckle's Dash-Strike. It actually makes you quite vulnerable to a counterattack from any enemy on FO2

#

It's immensely worrisome in Elysium with swordsmen and spearmen during their triple attack

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 2:07 PM

#

Yeah, I'm not relying on it for stunlock anymore.

#

@drowsy berry is that new behavior of Rolling Knuckle a bug or something you missed in the patch notes, if I may ask?

#

You seem to be around here often, so I figured it's okay to ask. squirtnya

#

@fading star do you practice the Hades fight at all with him maxed out, or do you just do that during regular runs when you get there?

fading star Jun 26, 2020, 2:12 PM

#

I've not been practicing like what @hallow stream has been suggesting. Probably because I am a terrible person

patent umbra Jun 26, 2020, 2:12 PM

#

Really, that's the only logical explanation /s

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 2:12 PM

#

I've only started doing that myself the other day lol.

#

I think getting the fight down to the point that you can beat him within 300 HP + Acorn consistently is very valuable. So that's my current goal.

#

Don't want a good run to end because I only had one DD or only SD.

#

Post spin-attack is definitively the best time to Dash-Upper if you want to try Demeter Aspect sometime.

#

He just stands around for quite a bit after that.

#

Also during triple-beam, during urn summon, and after omni-beam you can safely Dash-Upper.

#

And any time you can burst into the next phase with a Dash-Upper is semi-safe.

#

Any other time, you risk taking a big chunk of damage.

#

Especially because you can't see his telegraphs with all the visual effects from the Dash-Upper lol.

fading star Jun 26, 2020, 2:32 PM

#

I think one of the most difficult things about the Dad fight for the fists is the need to stop attacking and i-frame dodge. And you have to do that quite often, especially when he enrages.

#

I've tried strafing his attacks like how @hallow stream does it in his railgun fight and the only attacks I can evade in that manner are the spear thrusts

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 2:32 PM

#

Demeter Aspect speeds up the fight a lot, thankfully.

#

Yeah, I don't do that. I dash right through him when he starts any attack, then do a second dash if he spins.

#

I also rely on i-frames from Dionysus' Aid a lot in tricky situations or when I'm caught without a dash.

#

Just gotta make sure to always use Lesser Calls before you get a Greater Call because that gives you i-frames only once instead of 5 times.

#

Don't think I want to do that fight with only 1 dash at the moment, though. 2 dashes is so much easier.

hallow stream Jun 26, 2020, 2:43 PM

#

been doing some work on the file you sent me @mossy zinc some interesting results

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 2:43 PM

#

How far did you get?

hallow stream Jun 26, 2020, 2:44 PM

#

I just need to play perfectly lol

#

I've been very close to phasing him

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 2:44 PM

#

Yeah, it's great practice.

hallow stream Jun 26, 2020, 2:44 PM

#

after a couple hours of work

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 2:44 PM

#

Yeah, I haven't gotten through his first life yet lol.

hallow stream Jun 26, 2020, 2:44 PM

#

just need some concentration

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 2:44 PM

#

Been calling it life 1 and life 2 lately because both lives have different phases lol.

#

Got him to 10~20% a few times.

#

It's helped me a lot with handling the fight with 2 dashes. But right now I'm only using my 2-dash save with Demeter for practice. That's a lot closer to what I would actually have in the fight when I get there.

tidal flame Jun 26, 2020, 2:46 PM

#

Sharing is caring

#

May I have the save, too? squirtyay

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 2:47 PM

#

I can beat him 99% of the time with 3 DDs, 90% of the time with 2 DDs, and maybe 20~30% of the time with 1 DD.

#

Beat him once without using a DD.

#

Which one? I don't think a save with a build you're not going to use will help you. Getting one to him with the build you want and only the pacts for him maxed out with Hestia or whatever should be pretty quick.

tidal flame Jun 26, 2020, 2:50 PM

#

Doesn't the one you use have CP2 on it?

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 2:50 PM

#

Yeah.

#

HL5, CP2, DC2, FO2, HS. Those are the only ones that affect him.

tidal flame Jun 26, 2020, 2:52 PM

#

I don't care about build, I just need some time in the ring with him

#

He robbed me of too many wins

fading star Jun 26, 2020, 3:21 PM

#

I guess it's time to see if I can beat Haelian to 46 heat using twin fists

cedar spire Jun 26, 2020, 3:26 PM

#

Lucifer shall reign supreme. All hail the light bringer.

fading star Jun 26, 2020, 3:26 PM

#

That weapon is surprisingly difficult to use with K+M

#

...

#

wait a minute. Did you just effectively, "hail Satan?"

cedar spire Jun 26, 2020, 3:27 PM

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thanthink

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 3:35 PM

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thanthink

acoustic hare Jun 26, 2020, 3:44 PM

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Wanna try and begin doing 32 heat with the spear, because I just don't like Shield and Rail. Any advices?

The last death was from Meg's damage circles I couldn't dodge from. They just hit almost instantly.

fading star Jun 26, 2020, 3:48 PM

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Meg's circles are scary, indeed. One thing that I try to do is only use 1 dash per attack she does to try and be able to evade those attacks. Sometimes I don't need to dash so long as I am moving and the circle placements are in my favor

patent umbra Jun 26, 2020, 3:49 PM

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General advice from me is really work on dodging/iframing, as that's a skill that translates a lot into future heats. Don't get frustrated at losses, especially if you're running things that narrow boon offers/losing boons to the well, because sometimes builds just won't cut it then though unluckiness. And keep at it! If you have more specific build/mirror/pact questions, hit us up! I love theorycrafting but so many people in this channel have a bunch of experience, so they're great to ask

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Also there's a pinned doc that has 32+ heat runs if you want some models to look at successful runs

drowsy berry Jun 26, 2020, 3:49 PM

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@mossy zinc the current way Rolling Knuckle works is intentional.

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 3:50 PM

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Got it. Thanks!

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It was indeed changed, though, or are we tripping? lol

fading star Jun 26, 2020, 3:50 PM

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I could be tripping. I do use Dio's cast often

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 3:51 PM

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I get Swift Strike on Malphon a lot, so I could be misremembering how it performed without it.

hallow stream Jun 26, 2020, 6:24 PM

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@mossy zinc we're beating the first phase of hades on the file atm

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getting more and more consistent

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 6:24 PM

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Streaming?

hallow stream Jun 26, 2020, 6:24 PM

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no not right now

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I've developed a couple interesting tricks though

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 6:25 PM

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Make a recording if you can't stream, if that works. I'd like to watch that.

hallow stream Jun 26, 2020, 6:25 PM

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I'll try to stream later. frames have been dropping like crazy, so not sure if it'll break

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if I do I'll let you know

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 6:26 PM

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How much HP do you need to make it through life 1?

hallow stream Jun 26, 2020, 6:26 PM

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the best I've done is survived with 100 HP

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and gotten a bit through phase 2 before dying stupidly

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 6:26 PM

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one of you wanna throw me that file so I can practice too squirtnya

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i'm getting tired of your Hestia save

hallow stream Jun 26, 2020, 6:27 PM

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it's not my file, so you gotta ask her squirtnya

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 6:27 PM

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100 HP, so after using up the Skelly DD, yes?

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513 HP in that save, so you lost 413 in life 1 on your best attempt.

hallow stream Jun 26, 2020, 6:28 PM

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yeah that's what's up

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I can definitely do better, getting pretty close to figuring out a good mode of operations

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nearly all of the damage comes from deflecting his attacks, of course

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 6:29 PM

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Yeah, I figured I can do a lot better, too. But I don't have as much experience as you do in the fight, so I'm learning it with 2 dashes for now.

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Demeter Aspect.

hallow stream Jun 26, 2020, 6:30 PM

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having to rely on hades for damage def makes it ultra spooky lol

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and I didn't know he had CP2 until you mentioned it

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 6:32 PM

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It's all maxed out for him lol.

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Well, MM I've noticed since doesn't affect him at all.

hallow stream Jun 26, 2020, 6:33 PM

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the megagorgon is a spooky mob

daring hedge Jun 26, 2020, 6:34 PM

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Explosive Upper (Fists): increased damage

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squirtdevious

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 6:34 PM

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1.5 to 2.0 apparently

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so excite

honest kernel Jun 26, 2020, 6:35 PM

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100%? Supergiant, pls.

daring hedge Jun 26, 2020, 6:35 PM

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whew

honest kernel Jun 26, 2020, 6:35 PM

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It was already Demeter's best Hammer.

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 6:35 PM

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shh

daring hedge Jun 26, 2020, 6:35 PM

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lol

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 6:35 PM

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fists are weak anyway, they need buffs

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squirtnya

daring hedge Jun 26, 2020, 6:36 PM

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precisely!!

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 6:38 PM

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The Exalted: fixed an issue causing the Brightsword, Strongbow, and Greatshield to deal somewhat more damage than intended; their damage is restored to what it was before the Blood Price Update
Also this will make high heat runs definitely better in the Elysium phase

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 6:38 PM

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So the fates had planned my switch to Demeter Aspect just for this.

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 6:38 PM

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cause I definitely loved being ganged up on by 60 damage spearbois

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 6:38 PM

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The best hammer for Demeter Aspect is now better.

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I'm not complaining.

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Although it's still close with Breaching Cross, probably.

daring hedge Jun 26, 2020, 6:39 PM

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kind of interesting how you started using demeter again after i explained my 42 with them thanthink

wispy shard Jun 26, 2020, 6:39 PM

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stonks

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 6:39 PM

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Or maybe not anymore.

tidal flame Jun 26, 2020, 6:39 PM

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Spear feedbacks are encouraged.

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 6:40 PM

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Well, I was considering switching when we started talking. That's why I asked you about it.

tidal flame Jun 26, 2020, 6:40 PM

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I would love to see automatic recall for Special

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And maybe faster wind up for spin?

daring hedge Jun 26, 2020, 6:40 PM

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i know i'm mostly messing with you lol

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 6:40 PM

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"mostly"

daring hedge Jun 26, 2020, 6:40 PM

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squirtdevious

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 6:41 PM

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I just realized I don't read good and that patch note did not include spears.

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 6:41 PM

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I'm always interested in hearing all your thoughts and @autumn sable's and all the other Malphon users'. I think I can learn a lot from all of you still.

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I hear stuff I hadn't considered before all the time.

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 6:41 PM

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also i guess I can repurpose my last comment to be tongue-in-cheek

tidal flame Jun 26, 2020, 6:42 PM

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I'm so confused by this conversation rn

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But then again, I'm often confused

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So...

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 6:42 PM

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currently, I feel that explosive upper really helps solve the AoE problem that fists have

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either that or Zeus attack

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or in Tailesque's case, both

mossy zinc Jun 26, 2020, 6:43 PM

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I think @autumn sable's experience with speedruns with Malphon, for example, is incredibly valuable because of its ultra focus on clear speed. Which is something that's difficult to focus on when practicing high heat runs, because you're so focused on just survival lol.

tidal flame Jun 26, 2020, 6:43 PM

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I don't find myself lacking damage with say an Epic Lightning Strike

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Demeter fills in the burst damage with upper

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 6:44 PM

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yeah, that's the approach that I've been taking, Zeus really helps clear rooms quickly and somewhat safely

daring hedge Jun 26, 2020, 6:44 PM

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what i think is perfect about demeter in high heat is that you just passively get rewarded with huge charges of burst for playing normally. the 15% attack speed and dodge loss compared to zag isn't really a big deal at all

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 6:44 PM

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and is a little more reliable early on vs explosive upper

honest kernel Jun 26, 2020, 6:45 PM

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I've dodged hits that would have chunked me.

daring hedge Jun 26, 2020, 6:45 PM

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yeah, that's pretty much exactly what happened in my run

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zeus was reliable

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 6:45 PM

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Tailesque's video, I think really demonstrates how to best utilize Demeter in high heat

daring hedge Jun 26, 2020, 6:45 PM

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then i got explosive upper

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and both were reliable

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 6:46 PM

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My speedruns are primarily spamming dash-attack-special which gets you killed

tidal flame Jun 26, 2020, 6:46 PM

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What would be the best thing to put on upper then?

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Arte?

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Aphro?

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 6:46 PM

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but using that sparingly against bosses and enemies helps get burst damage with low commitment

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or enemies that have standard, dangerous attack patterns like wave makers

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or bombers

tidal flame Jun 26, 2020, 6:47 PM

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Upper cutting death rattle bombers is really dangerous

autumn sable Jun 26, 2020, 6:47 PM

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I've tried both aphro and artemis and I think I lean towards aphro just for the curse