i fought hades
#h1-story-discussion
pine spade
spoil
quartz helm
you need to just keep running and check nyx for dialogue @frail pecan
quartz helm
im partial to achilles and ares myself
twin monolith
i unlocked 5 diff aspects
@frail pecan for the Stygius and other weapons that aren't Guan Yu you need to spend 5 blood on the weapon itself, not others like it's for Guan Yu
Can we go on the surface again ||after persefone go back in hell|| ?
@pine spade No, ||currently you only go to where you fight Hades and then the narrator throws you back.|| Also you should use spoiler tag for the last part of your message
frozen jolt
please spoiler tag the message you quoted as well @twin monolith
frail pecan
@twin monolith
twin monolith
sorry didn't realize had to do it in my end
olive wagon
is there a way to force certain gods to appear , besides picking their artifact ? for example , if want to apear Dionysus and Zeus ?
drifting citrus
you could try your luck using fated authority
copper saffron
So I met ||Hades|| on my 22nd run, got my ass wiped nice and clean 
frail pecan
@twin monolith i did spent 5 blood on the weapon and nothing happend?
twin monolith
@frail pecan you need to talk to the correct NPC, they give you a phrase that unlocks the aspect, you want to unlock the sword?
twin monolith
Then you need to talk to Nyx
if she doesn't talk about it, go on a run and try talking to her again
brave stratus
I really wish there was a way to ||get to Persephone's house after you've convinced her to return to the Underworld. It's a lovely environment, it's a shame for it to be available for only ten runs.||
wicked finch
I wish i could skip that monologue about how i died after defeating hades. It got repetetive after 50times and anoying after another 50
delicate dew
Gotta say
It was pretty hilarious seeing ||Theseus and Asterius getting into a brogument over the course of multiple runs||
supple dagger
Yep.
coarse raptor
woah! this ending is garbage! how incredibly underwhelming! haha
||I want an EXTRA boss fight, not one fewer...||
there might be more, but credits rolled...
quartz helm
wait for it
open berry
garbage is a really strong word
whole heath
@coarse raptor There's Extremer Measures for you
coarse raptor
there's no climax whatsoever, it just... ends! this is not how stories work, let alone video games
heavy sluice
I strongly disagree lol
coarse raptor
the story is quite workable, but the word is "anticlimactic"
wind sage
just cause you dont like something doesnt mean its bad
coarse raptor
it was lessened in impact a little cuz I won all the runs to unlock it in a row without breaking a sweat, but even without that... games need scaling difficulty and such
wind sage
or "not how it works"
coarse raptor
absolutely agreed! me disliking it is neither necessary for sufficient for something to be bad
but this is still bad D:
heavy sluice
I'm not saying you're wrong for disliking it, but I stone disagree that it's bad
whole heath
Shower thought: early access players had much different experience than anyone will have from now on. Waiting for a true ending for months, doing run after run and then at some point suddenly finally having to see how it ends. It was awesome
coarse raptor
agreed, it was more fun for me than it would have been if I were a... late? adopter
there's a certain 'curve' to stories and video games, and this totally missed the mark, catastrophically I'd say...
wind sage
agree to disagree
heavy sluice
Yeah I don't have the spoons to argue the point further
heavy sluice
I haven't gotten it yet
outer thicket
I just got it
heavy sluice
I'm assuming I need to dole out more friendship juice
coarse raptor
like 10~ more runs? oof haha
whole heath
It was about 5 hours of doing runs for me. Could differ I think
heavy sluice
Considering I hit credits on 50 and I'm now at 74
outer thicket
The only achievement I need now is 2nd skelly secret
I'm at like 84
But I also hit credits a lot later than 50
because I already had 60 hours in early access
coarse raptor
max rank all standard keepsakes is the big time sink, the rest seem quite sane (missing that, call in trial, and purge legendary)
yeah I'm at 92 hours and had 107 played runs when 1.0 dropped haha
heavy sluice
I've only got like three or four more keepsakes left
outer thicket
I really enjoyed the ending actually
coarse raptor
the ending itself was... good? but the narrative arc that led us there was the most disappointing I've seen in a video game in... longer than I can remember
outer thicket
Like sure, it wasn't super major impactful like the one in transistor or something, but just seeing ||Hades become soft and nice to you|| (Not epilogue spoilers) was awesome.
coarse raptor
that was awesome, yeah, but... also expected, and also felt quite unearned
wind sage
"unearned" lol
heavy sluice
I'd say the ending is better than Transistor's
coarse raptor
the fact that the difficulty doesn't scale unless you want it to is... not how games are supposed to work either, I was scaling up my Heat but only the normal amount
wind sage
I think youre just reaching for things to hate at this point
coarse raptor
I've also beaten 32 heat twice cuz I wanted skelly's statue and such
no, not at all, it's all the same thing
royal sun
I feel like you aren't used to roguelikes
coarse raptor
you beat the game! then do exactly the same thing 9 more times, except it gets EASIER cuz at that point you're still unlocking mirror and contractor upgrades
no, I absolutely am - it's probably my favourite genre atm
wind sage
thats the point
outer thicket
I do think that the heat thing is a bit flawed in the way that it forces you to slowly climb in heat, even if it doesn't match your skill yet
wind sage
why would I play a game that I continually feel worse at
heavy sluice
Yeah that's literally the point
coarse raptor
a MAJOR purpose of roguelikes is that there is no grinding
wind sage
this is a "rogue-lite"
outer thicket
Like if it had you climb heat 2 at a time instead I think it would feel a lot nicer.
coarse raptor
you're supposed to get better as they get harder, and then they culminate in a big hugely difficult thing that feels amazing to pull off
drifting citrus
it doesn't force you to climb heat slowly
wind sage
not quite the same as a rogue-like
heavy sluice
And this is where genre distinction becomes nonsense
outer thicket
well it does in terms of rewards
coarse raptor
it doesn't force you to climb at all!
drifting citrus
you can switch up on heat however you want
coarse raptor
true, I haven't played many roguelikes
wind sage
why would I want a game to force me to do anything
royal sun
optional challenge is a huge part of roguelike/lites (the terms are ill-defined)
wind sage
choice is where the fun is
outer thicket
I don't feel inclined to go higher if I just get the same reward
heavy sluice
I think they wanted people who aren't that skilled to actually be able to experience the story
drifting citrus
if it doesn't match your skill... raise the heat until it does
outer thicket
Yes, I agree, but I want the rewards to match that heat climb
wind sage
you dont have to unlock upgrades, you dont have to not make the game harder
coarse raptor
I also totally agree with that idea, Lionheart - slow scaling heat would have been fine. things like Dead Cells 5bc and Pantheon of Hallownest are TOO hard to take seriously
but no scaling at all? or worse, scaling DOWN (as your skill also improves)? ridiculous haha
wind sage
dead cells doesnt scale over time
royal sun
I can see the argument for no scaling, and if you play at max heat then the mirror doesn't scale
coarse raptor
anyway, I always forget never to complain about to the games' plans
outer thicket
I mean it kind of does
wind sage
BCs are optional
coarse raptor
I mean I want difficulty scaling, not grinding - DC definitely has difficulty scaling if you want to unlock the "story"
wind sage
I could run BC0 over and over again and it would be the same
coarse raptor
... that's... not how "optional" works? that's like saying later levels in Mario aren't harder cuz you can skip them
no, you wouldn't unlocked the "story" (as minimal as it is)
or "progress"
Hades' progression was never great, but the ending being "repeat 45 minute task 10 times" is totally lame :p
wind sage
We get it
heavy sluice
If you say so
coarse raptor
These aren’t opinions :p
heavy sluice
They really are
outer thicket
I'd say I agree with that point. However it's still one of my favorite games ever, so that's not what I typically focus on
royal sun
saying something is lame, no matter what it is or how accurate you believe you are, is an opinion
topaz turtle
Whats the final keepsake? its still locked for me and i cant figure out who's it is
outer thicket
It is an opinion, but I can see the point
drifting citrus
Whats the final keepsake? its still locked for me and i cant figure out who's it is
who do you have currently?
wind sage
@topaz turtle its ||Hades'||
broken hazel
@topaz turtle unlock the full story
outer thicket
It's someone you've definitely met
drifting citrus
also, check the codex
topaz turtle
ah its story related duh
for some reason my dumbass was running around looking through the codex to see who i missed
thanks guys
broken hazel
they all are, every character you can talk to gives you one
Just got to the end of the story myself. Its so moving especially since playing from early access. Like reading the last page of your favorite book.
wet walrus
Anyone figure out how to unlock the hidden aspect of the spear?
twin monolith
Anyone figure out how to unlock the hidden aspect of the spear?
@wet walrus you can check the pinned messages here if you want the solution fast, it's the second one
broken hazel
read the pin @wet walrus
wet walrus
The pin?
broken hazel
top of the discord channel
twin monolith
Pinned messages on the top right of this channel
wet walrus
Oh nice, thank you
Yeah so
It's not accurate
I've already met those conditions and still can't access the aspect
heavy sluice
I think my absolute favorite small detail I noticed upon 1.0 completion is that ||Zagreus has Persephone's hair||
wind sage
you need to hear a convo from ||Achilles||
heavy sluice
As always, the solution is do more runs
twin monolith
Did you get the phrase from Achilles @wet walrus
wind sage
it wont unlock automatically
wet walrus
Is it just random? I've done around 6 runs after unlocking a bunch of aspects and still nothing lol
heavy sluice
It is
wet walrus
Well at least I know now
twin monolith
Characters some time have to talk about lore or other story so it may take some tries for them to talk about something specific
wet walrus
Makes sense, thank you for the info
wind sage
I wish there was an easier way to die lol
twin monolith
it becomes easier to die once you complete a run for the first time haha
wind sage
I guess in theory you could pump heat up a bunch
wind sage
isnt there also one that decreases max hp?
twin monolith
No, if I'm not mistaken the pact has one that decreases health regen items but you can use Guan Yu aspect as well, you get like 30hp or something
wind sage
routine inspection deactivates mirror upgrades
twin monolith
good point, didn't think about that one
wind sage
ok looking through the pacts
how the hell are you supposed to win with LC4
100% healing reduction
drifting citrus
use stubborn defiance
lunar river
Guys, i need some spoilers about Megaera - her "relationship progress" is currently marked with keyhole heart, what do i need to do to progress?
twin monolith
lol playing with social distancing enabled, don't let anything touch you 
lunar river
Please don't tell me i need to beat Hades.
lunar river
I haven't payed attention before - its not something specific?
twin monolith
Guys, i need some spoilers about Megaera - her "relationship progress" is currently marked with keyhole heart, what do i need to do to progress?
@lunar river you need to keep talking to her, eventually the relationship will unlock on a specific conversation
alpine briar
wait
lunar river
Okay, i thought it indicated some specific event
lunar river
thanks
alpine briar
||Why did hades just surrender and give me the titans blood and stuff, what is this?||
I am obviously missing something right?
twin monolith
||Why did hades just surrender and give me the titans blood and stuff, what is this?||
@alpine briar Aren't you following the story? I mean it has to do with whats happening....
wind sage
@lunar river ||After a random number of encounters with the Furies, Megaera will approach Zagreus in his room||
from the wiki
amber canyon
How did people get to the epilogue on day 1
Im now a few days in and I still am nowhere near it
wind sage
the grind is real
twin monolith
How did people get to the epilogue on day 1
@amber canyon A lot of people have been playing since Early Acces
amber canyon
So have I
twin monolith
most of the stuff was already done
amber canyon
Ive been playing since day 1 even
Its just the ||Persephone|| stuff alone thats taking forever
alpine briar
||Oh the credits are on my screen||
twin monolith
I got the Epilogue like two days ago, I didn't play like crazy in Early Access but did complete a lot of the story/quests...
alpine briar
||Well crap||
twin monolith
But some people got it on day 1 because they were already like doing crazy 20~30+ heat runs already
jolly radish
@amber canyon dm me if you need a bit more of a push on the reqs on Epilogue without giving too much away since it seems like not much progress since a while ago XD but I find it hard to believe that you're not hitting the reqs if you've played a ton post-patch and have been playing a ton in EA, doing the standard Hades stuff of running, gifting, talking, and getting some good dialogue RNG...
amber canyon
I mean, Ive played a decent amount, not sure if it can be called a ton
jolly radish
only took me about a dozen runs post-credits to unlock epilogue, and i played quite a bit in EA, so if that doesn't sound right to you, hmmm
amber canyon
I am well past a dozen runs
heavy sluice
Yeah same
jolly radish
i assume you played quite a bit in EA doing all you could while the game was still in EA?
amber canyon
Well, I didnt play super-actively in the blood price update
jolly radish
hm
amber canyon
But Im pretty sure I got most of what you could get pre-update
heavy sluice
I probably need to dole out more juice
amber canyon
There is only a handful of non-1.0 dialogues I get, but only rarely
heavy sluice
I still have a lot of locks to bust
jolly radish
hmm
amber canyon
Does it by any chance involve giving max nectar to all the gods?
jolly radish
well, dm me if you want a bit more of a push on the requirements, but it's an Epilogue for a reason--gotta have most of the stuff done to get the Epilogue
amber canyon
Thats the only guess I got
jolly radish
can't be specific just yet, but given that this game is alternatively titled: "Hades: give stuff to people and keep talking to them", I'm sure that'll be useful!
quartz helm
this is probably a dumb question but is doing high heat required for the epilogue
jolly radish
and at worst you get some more dialogue storyline completions
amber canyon
I really wish someone would just make an explicit guide on how to do the epilogue
twin monolith
Does it by any chance involve giving max nectar to all the gods?
@amber canyon I can't confirm that cause I don't know for sure but I guess it does, @jolly radish made a nice guide (pinned messages) but they can't reveal just yet...
amber canyon
Im not a fan of this obscure nonsense
twin monolith
it will be revealed soon but that's whats makes sense
jolly radish
You have to understand that revealing the exact requirements so early on after the game is released is not great; would be unfair to Devs to not let people experience getting to the Epilogue themselves
Per request
Which is why in my guide I said that I'm pretty sure I can (ethically not feel bad + long enough time keeping info under wraps per request) revealing more info at latest Oct 1 if not earlier, depending on if Epilogue discussion picks up, etc.
amber canyon
Id just figure it out myself, but Im not sure which part of the code this information is stored in
jolly radish
@quartz helm ||required? bit of a strong word to use. i'd suggest running more heat personally to keep things fresh and etc., but from a game dev standpoint SGG wouldn't gate the Epilogue behind high heat (a skill check)||
amber canyon
Ah, there we go
quartz helm
ok fair enough
twin monolith
Ive been mostly ignoring demeter
@amber canyon If you're behind with Demeter just take her keepsake, start the run, gift, die (easier with high heat) and repeat. If you played for quite a while I assume you have some nectar or it's easy to get
wind sage
@jolly radish oh you're the steam guide guy lol
amber canyon
I know how to do it, I just have had no reason to assume to do that yet
Its not particularly important anyhow, I figure I can read the requirements if I follow this strang
jolly radish
yep @wind sage (fyi also just released a new guide on the end-game Hades vanity/cosmetic items with pictures; linked at the start of my original guide and also on Steam, in case you want to check that out! dm me if you cant find it for some reason)
wind sage
I was talking about this last night
But is there a contractor upgrade that gives you a new HUD?
People were saying there was but I never got that
twin monolith
nice one @jolly radish 
jolly radish
ty @twin monolith 
yep there is @wind sage so def might want to check the new guide! though details on the exact requirements for the HUD (again, sadly) have to be hush-hush for a bit, though a boost in the right direction is offered
scenic plover
not too sure about the optimal way to get these vanity items being to just drop to 0 heat and grind out runs, rather than rewarding pushing yourself further like bounties do in the midgame/early endgame
jolly radish
@scenic plover if ur referring to the ||upgradeable vanity item, that's really the only way to farm the main gated resource. if you're talking about the non-upgradeable separate ones, then you just gotta farm them by focusing on them||
wind sage
optimal isnt always the most fun way to do something
jolly radish
although to be fair, i did the math earlier and ||for the upgradeable vanity item, it requires 325,000 darkness to max out (other resources are just formalities at that point). you get 564 darkness per run by killing 0 heat bosses with 20% bonus weapon, so that's ~600 runs, or at the very least ~325 runs assuming you somehow manage to get 1000 darkness per run||
placid delta
does extremer measures add a third phase to ||hades||
had a bad run and couldnt get past his second phase but nothing seemed different
quartz helm
spoiler boss name pls
jolly radish
@placid delta ||yes, check the pinned posts for my guide with more details on EM4 + the noticeable differences in the fight!||
wintry goblet
To unlock the hidden aspects: What does || "invest at least 5 titan blood" mean. I used 4 to unlock the other 2 aspects. Does that mean I only need to use 1 more blood to be able to trigger the event?||
scenic plover
i think it would be more interesting if you had to do a promotion run for each rank once you can afford it, with a minimum heat equal to the rank you're going for, or something like that so it actually interacts with the more interesting side of the endgame
placid delta
actually I think I might not have had EM4 turned on somehow
I definitely bought the contract for it
wintry goblet
Yeah some heat related endgame would be interesting.
lone anchor
dumb question, but do you lose out on some conversations if you beat the game fast?
twin monolith
@wintry goblet I think you are correct, i can't confirm that (didn't test it or realized that) but it makes sense
wind sage
@jolly radish ok after reading your guide it seems I just need to ||talk to Hades more, even though I've beaten him like 5 times after the "ending"||
twin monolith
dumb question, but do you lose out on some conversations if you beat the game fast?
@lone anchor Nope
twin monolith
@lone anchor do you mean beating a run fast or beating the actual whole game fast? haha
jolly radish
for the ||UI|| or the ||Resource Director||?
wind sage
||You need to beat the game (post-credits) and talk to Hades a few times, and then Hades will let you know of this new shade-y vendor!|| is what Actius says
amber canyon
Ah
wind sage
2nd one
amber canyon
No yeah that seems about right
wind sage
so Ive heard
amber canyon
I think there is an extra trigger, but you should get it reliably
wind sage
something about ||100 nectar? lol||
lone anchor
@twin monolith the whole game, or well, getting to the credits fast
wind sage
or is this "trigger" just for unlocking the option itself
lone anchor
I kind of miss Hades telling my choice of rugs suck 😄
wind sage
I put up a portrait of him and he didnt say anything to me 😢
dad pls I just want ur luv
normal spire
How do I unlock EM4
wind sage
@normal spire ||beat the game, then beat Hades a couple more times and itll be at the contractor||
scenic plover
obviously i know they want heat to be generally optional, but i think the venn diagram of people that are willing to deal with those resource costs for a shiny emblem on their health bar and the people that will never touch high heat is just two distant circles
normal spire
Man I already beat him so much
wind sage
have you gotten the ending yet?
wintry goblet
Like there is a difference between liking to grind stuff and doing extreme hard runs
scenic plover
right, but the issue is if you want the badges and you also want to do harder runs, those two goals cancel each other out entirely, the optimal way to engage with the endgame is to stay on 0 heat forever, yes you can intentionally play suboptimally, but that shouldn't be necessary
the bounties pushing you to gradually start to challenge yourself more is great, but then with badges the game straight up stops doing that
wind sage
the game isnt meant to be played optimally
scenic plover
if an entirely optional post-post-postgame cosmetic reward system isn't the place to reward high heat, what is?
wind sage
story elements are meant to be unlocked as you play the actual game, i.e. the rogue-lite game
scenic plover
and with resource costs that high, yes, it is asking you to optimize if you want to get them
lone anchor
what is optimally in a rogue-lite even?
wind sage
more like rewarding players that have many runs and hours
people complain about having too many resources unused late game
so they add ways to use them
but ultimately those uses are entirely inconsequential to the actual game
bonus items not meant to be grinded out at all
wraith frost
This
scenic plover
this was the perfect opportunity to combine that with a reason, however inconsequential it might be, to challenge the player to push beyond 20 heat
jolly radish
note that pacts stop giving you bounties after 20 heat
so eventually if you want to play high heat and farm darkness you'll get there
heavy sluice
A darkness and gems bonus post 20 Heat would be ideal
twin monolith
@twin monolith the whole game, or well, getting to the credits fast
@lone anchor then I'd say yes, it's very possible since there's a lot of dialogue to go through. SInce you're beating the game "fast" you're more than likely not completing quest, prophecies, not maxing out relationships and favors so...
scenic plover
there's this concept called optimizing the fun out of a game, when you present a goal, players will go after that goal in the most optimal way, whether it's fun or not
when no goal was presented, that naturally draws you to heat, but when a goal is presented that's optimally pursued at 0 heat, that's what people will be drawn to
wind sage
I wouldnt even know about this goal "naturally" though
until I unlocked it myself
at which point I should have an abundance of resources anyway
lone anchor
@twin monolith||Well I had no knowledge that you would get to credits after beating hades 10 times in a row. I just kept playing the game and enjoying.||
Still am and going to get all the relationships and stuff
wintry goblet
I personally play on heat too follow 2 goals at the same time:
|| Unlocking storys trough run completion and getting rewards to upgrade my stuff/buy stuff from house contractor||
elder forum
Just finished the story and I can’t give enough praise to the devs on this game been playing since it first came out on beta pre release and the game gets better and better each patch and the ending of the story is just phenomenal
normal spire
I'll say
Having high heat run doesn't contradict the long term goal at all
People act like you'll clear the game in one go
You'll fail at high heat
Which will gives you darkness on the boss you beaten
torpid ermine
I just got the credits and ||Hades admitting to his mistakes was such a powerful scene, especially after all the boss fights where he fights you. Him standing down was amazing story telling||
elder forum
Facts
coarse kestrel
Beat EM Hades. Felt kinda bad that I cheesed most of it with Better Coronacht [Aegis+Power Rush+Bull Shot]
solemn orbit
hey whats new about the keepsakes of NPCS you maxed out your relationship?
median ruin
Some of them give you Companions
Which are like
Assist Characters you can summon once per escape to do a thing
solemn orbit
like my artemis is maxed out and she doesnt give anything, but her keepsake got her tiny face over it now
solemn orbit
I have some companions already
elder forum
i dont think it does anything
solemn orbit
meh
elder forum
the little chibi face is just like hey you hav maxed relationship
solemn orbit
would be nice to have something extra
jolly radish
for all intents and purposes, max'ing hearts (chibi icons) doesn't have any gameplay effect, but it's not totally useless 🙂
upbeat willow
you get a warm fuzzy feeling inside (I did at least anyways)
solemn orbit
haha yeah
I just wanted to have some recognition from the character you maxed out
dunno
elder forum
you do get that tho
craggy yarrow
this is gonna sound ridiculous but does anyone know how to find missed dialog? I gave Hades a gift after beating him a second time and it killed his conversation option. kinda wanted to ask him something
vital ibex
anyone know how to get the dionysus bond? not sure if this question was posed already but didn't see it searching
tough dagger
I did not expect that at any point in this game zagreus would get busy with meg
even if it is just implied
The surprises that hades has in store are just limitless (':
deft vale
Can I "romance" both Dusa and Meg? :D
signal swan
Hey I’m missing someone from the codex in Others of Note
It’s someone under Skelly but I don’t know who it could be. Anybody know?
Is it Bouldy?! o_o
supple dagger
@jolly radish wait, is that why the game keeps repeatingly telling me I can't get bounties anymore? Because I already got all my weapons up to 20+ heat?
quartz helm
you can romance everyone and there's no downsides for doing so or not doing so @deft vale
jolly radish
yes @supple dagger, on regular mode (aka non hell mode), you can only get bounties up until 20 heat; then no more bounties are awarded for higher heat
in hell mode you can get bounties up to 25 heat
signal swan
Dang that’s crazy
deft vale
ty
signal swan
but on normal it seems to let me push it up to like 38 something? I’m guessing it won’t let you if you select it?
not that I would try it at this stage. X_x
open berry
@vital ibex no one answered you, all you need to do is keep gifting ambrosia to characters
jolly radish
you can put higher heat
but it wont give you any more bounties (e.g. titan blood/ambrosia/etc.)
just darkness
signal swan
oh ok
supple dagger
I won't lie, it alternates between "no more bounties" and "you can do 21 and more heat now"
signal swan
But yeah I’m trying to max out relationships but there’s one missing from the codex
autumn dust
man im ngl im really excited about potential future stuff for this game
jolly radish
wym @supple dagger
@signal swan which character? put it in spoilers if necessary and perhaps i can help you (pretty sure i know who it is but just checking)
eternal zinc
quick question, hades and nyx dont offer the prompt to give them nectar anymore for me. Im at around 14 kills(?). Is this story related or did I lock myself out somehow
jolly radish
to clarify the heat situation: as we all know, each time you raise your heat level and clear a boss, you get titan blood/ambrosia/diamonds. once you hit the "20 heat bounty rewards", increasing your heat to 21 heat will not give you more tb/a/d. however, you can still turn your pact up to 32 heat and complete that run at 32 heat, it just "counts" as whatever your bounty heat reward level should be (e.g. if you're at 15 heat bounty rewards and run 32 heat, then clearing it will count as clearing at 15 heat, and at 16+ heat you can get bounties again; but if you are at 20 heat and clear with 32 heat, then the next time you run 32 heat it counts as a 21 heat run which does not provide bounties)
wintry goblet
But like do you even need more rewards at that point?
supple dagger
the gradually increasing heat helped farm blood, diamonds, and ambrosia more easily compared to taking weird deals from the Trader in the Lounge, who will sometimes ask for titan blood for ambrosia, despite titan blood also requiring an ambrosia.
quartz helm
two rooms in a row with shield dudes im gonna kms
normal spire
like there's no point removing reward pass 20 heat
especially when they already reduced darkness cost
you don't need that much darkness
but it costs you 15 titan blood
supple dagger
Brightshields are kinda easy to fight, but you do have to time/manever around them. Or, if possible, knock them against obstacles will do damage.
normal spire
to unlock something at the contractor
Birghtshields is why I always take Zeus call
supple dagger
Zeus and Poseidon defintiely make fighting Brightshields a breeze.
quartz helm
bruh first time i used up a DD while not fighting redacted and its against the stupid flame chariots
supple dagger
If you have Support Fire, you could strike their shields and a seeking arrow would do the work for you.
supple dagger
I have, but honestly, the fact that those things are basically moving bombs, even with that "benefit," they could easily just crash into a wall and suddenly, the room is cleared.
median ruin
So
I managed to win one with Excalibur without taking Athena Dash
And it's not actually that big a deal but I'm proud of myself :3
supple dagger
Congrats! Because I don't know if I ever did a run without Athena Dash and Excalibur.
normal spire
I mean
that's really awesome
but wait
is there any special interaction between them
because I don't always take it...
median ruin
I abuse the hell out of Athena Dash, but I think once I get a better grip on defensive positioning, I won't use it as much.
Because I'm a DPS whore.
normal spire
if you're that
run Athena dash and ruthless
I am not gonna lie excalibur with ruthless is silly
median ruin
Which one is Ruthless?
wicked palm
So I noticed this line of ||Asterius'|| in a recent run... wonder if this was always here, knowing what the ||hidden Fists Aspect status is called https://i.imgur.com/OzXWPUl.jpg||
normal spire
Which one is Ruthless?
@median ruin
A Mirror Talent
If you dash just before you get hit, you gain a damage boost
wintry goblet
Is there a way to enter the garden next to zags room?
autumn dust
yes
amber canyon
There we go, triggered ||the epilogue quest||
quartz helm
Achilles thinks that Zagreus is the god of blood/life wowowowow
amber canyon
Ngl
Some of these requirements are a bit contrived
Had I not known about them, odds are I wouldve never gotten them
narrow citrus
||spoiler test||
WTF
ok w.e
i just finished my first run after
||bringing persephone back||
and i was super dissapointed that you don't get to
||go to greece anymore||
do you never get to go back?
autumn dust
nah dude finish the whole thing
clear oracle
I just realized that Meg is the employee of the month
autumn dust
that changes after every run btw
coarse raptor
how do I unlock the final keepsake? beat the game again after the credits, nothing
quartz helm
||talk to hades, you'll be able to give him nectar after some time||
autumn dust
oh my god im so op
i got the boon that makes every boon you get be at least a purple
and that was like my second or third boon
so now im swimming in duos
legit i just beat floor three boss in sub 30 seconds
coarse raptor
EM or base?
gleaming yacht
I wish the boon could be like a talent or something so you always get it, its so OP and powerful
elder forum
“This is broken” “make it easily accessible”
Thank god ur not on the balance team lmao
gleaming yacht
its so OP they honestly should even remove, its like x10 stronger than anything in the game
elder forum
It’s not that op it’s good but it’s situational
Some times it’s crazy other times it upgrades ur Athena dash
gleaming yacht
it upgrades every boon you get the rest of the game into an Epic or higher
its like crazy op
autumn dust
i would argue that its similar to the uh side hustle
much stronger the earlier you get it
elder forum
Oh wait I thought you were talking about the Demeter thing that upgrades stuff every few rooms
Nvm lol
Yea that thing is wack
tired pier
I think I got that offered as my last boon in the run once, was pretty bummed out.
mossy cairn
Anyone knows how to reach epilogue? I got ||Queen Return and beat the game a couple of time|| What’s next?
autumn dust
heat
mossy cairn
How high?
autumn dust
idk what do you mean by epilog?
mossy cairn
Oh, never mind
gleaming yacht
in actual Greek mythology ||Zagreus is the son of Zeus, so it would be cool if they did a DLC where Zagreus finds out and fights Zeus for lying to him||
quartz helm
well there's technically three "people" named zagreus in greek mythology
mossy cairn
Is there anyone here knows about the epilogue?
quartz helm
there's the "first dionysus or orphic dionysus" ||who's the son of zeus and persephone||, one who's paired with gaia and called ||the highest god of the underworld||, and the zagreus we know of and love (although some say zagreus is hades himself too)
upbeat willow
yes, but Supergiant has taken several liberties with the greek mythos @gleaming yacht one of them is lineage
wintry goblet
Well as mentioned in a ama zagreus is still a very minor figure and yet interesting.
Greek Mythologie has many such figures
gleaming yacht
I think Orphic Dionysus is the one we actual play as since we find out he's the ||son of persephone||
quartz helm
well no. when i said the zagreus we know and love, it's because thats ||the one that's the son of hades and persephone||
orphic dionysus was torn apart by the titans because of hera's (notorious) jealousy, so she incited the titans to tear him apart and eat parts of his body
wintry goblet
Lovly
gleaming yacht
yea but that's why im saying they could do a DLC for it and pop a twist on us where we find out both Hades and Persephone lied
wintry goblet
Nah
gleaming yacht
I think after he was torn apart by titans Zeus brought him back to life tho
quartz helm
but what about nyx
quartz helm
idk orphic dionysus doesnt even have anything to do in the underworld
wintry goblet
Fufact the first time I fought hades I id it with the spear
And I thought he would use the same weapon I use. In each fight
But no he just like his spear
quartz helm
also the name "zagreus" isnt even mentioned in orphic mythology; the name was connected to orphic dionysus by a poet many years later
gleaming yacht
yea zagreus is like a made up name
wintry goblet
Well all god names are made up
jolly radish
@mossy cairn check guide in pinned posts for a bit of a pointer in the right direction; I can't provide details on the exact requirements yet (per request), but hopefully that helps for a few days until I can (ethically feel okay) and reveal more info!
quartz helm
idk even with liberal artistic license i can't see orphic dionysus zagreus going anywhere
gleaming yacht
if they ever wanna expand on the story and give us a reason to fight zeus I think there's potential with whiping that can of worms out
quartz helm
also orphism is really a weird offshoot of greek mythology
gleaming yacht
the main thing is giving us zeus as a boss fight, that's what I really want out of it
quartz helm
fair enough, but theres a lot of ways to do that without ruining zagreus' characterization from the "main game"
signal swan
@jolly radish that’s just it I don’t know. They’re just an undiscovered character under Skelly
jolly radish
@signal swan ? what's your question?
signal swan
Who is this undiscovered character in the codex?
I’ve gotten pretty much everybody else like Orpheus. Pat, Eurydice, Sisyphus..
quartz helm
keep escaping and you'll find out eventually
jolly radish
i have no idea who you're possibly even referring to rn
signal swan
It’s not “the person up top” is it?
jolly radish
where are they located in the codex?
quartz helm
its the one under skelly
signal swan
In Others of Note
jolly radish
which section
signal swan
I just said that like 2-3 times now
jolly radish
the first post i see from you is you tagging me and saying who's under skelly but i dont have the game open lol
anyways if it's probably who i think it is, ||have you beat the final boss yet?||
quartz helm
i already answered the question but ok
signal swan
Yeah...
Ok so it’s a boss not a companion got it
That makes more sense now all things considered
jolly radish
if you ||beat the final boss, then the entry you're talking about should unlock||
mossy cairn
@mossy cairn check guide in pinned posts for a bit of a pointer in the right direction; I can't provide details on the exact requirements yet (per request), but hopefully that helps for a few days until I can (ethically feel okay) and reveal more info!
@jolly radish Thanks
jolly radish
so either ur game is glitched or ||you didn't beat the final boss yet|| afaik turns out i am wrong
wintry goblet
Wait I did beat it 6 times an don't have that they too
I thought you get it with the || 10th win ||
quartz helm
you dont unlock that until you beat the main story
jolly radish
oh true that might be correct then @wintry goblet
i just thought as usual, ||first meeting = unlock||, didnt recall exactly with this one
wintry goblet
Because || I don know the wording but it says something like people in the underworld||
And like that's not correct
rotund sedge
What an ending.
supple dagger
I missed a lot. Popped in and someone said "[they] both lied" and I'm going "what, who? why?"
oh okay, I scrolled up and read through the messages. Someone mentioning a thing that, in this variation of the mythos, is just ||a song that Orpheus is pranked into writing and believing unironically after Zagreus mentions that he's actually Dionysus||. Also yeah, no, it would be a bit of a lore-twist and a little ew if ||they went with the version of Zagreus that was the son of Zeus... but is somehow trapped in the Underworld despite the fact that Zeus is on Mt. Olympus and isn't limited to Olympus.|| That's me though. Nothing against having it be like an easter egg in the game rather than its canon.
crisp laurel
zag x thanatos
quartz helm
||orphic dionysus was a real thing (well as real as a mythological figure can be) but i completely forgot about that hymm of zagreus or whatever orpheus did lol||
thats definitely an obscure easter egg lol
median ruin
So
I got totally thrashed wielding the aspect of Lucifer
Any advice on wielding it properly?
Oh wrong thread whups
@supple dagger There was a whole religion that worshipped Dionysus as the same god as Zagreus called Oprhism. They were kind of an early take on the same sort of "Matter bad, spirit good" mysticism as the Manicheans would later adopt.
They believed that humanity had arisen from the slain bodies of the titans, but were animated by the divine life force of Dionysus, who was slain by the Titans and eaten by them, but rose anew.
Orphic Dionysus was kind of like
Scary Alternate Universe Jesus
latent tapir
What unlocks the Hypnos and Hermes locks?
quartz helm
hypnos' is lots of RNG
||"Completing Hypnos' favor involves witnessing a series of events between him and Thanatos. To start, Hypnos will tell Zagreus that Thanatos has said some things to him that make him feel as though he's displeased his brother, and Zagreus states he will talk to Thanatos on Hypnos' behalf.
After Zagreus confronts Thanatos about Hypnos, periodically between runs Zagreus will encounter the brothers engaged in conversation. Thanatos will repeatedly criticize Hypnos' work ethic until finally seeming to discover a way to help Hypnos focus. Thanatos then praises the quality of his brother's improved work and apologizes for treating him badly. Afterward Hypnos will thank Zagreus for speaking to Thanatos, completing his favor."||
||"Hermes' favor requires speaking with him while having the Lambent Plume equipped and max leveled."||
from the wiki
latent tapir
aha, good to know I have to do something for the latter
oak forum
so I bought the soundtrack and had a listen and I think I accidentally spoiled the true ending of the game for myself
||Zagreus discovers very early on in the game that his mom is actually Persephone through a letter he found in Hades' desk, right, which mentions that perhaps she would like to live in a little cottage on the coast
one of the last songs on the soundtrack is titled On the Coast, and immediately upon listening to it it was clear that the melody was Egyptian-themed, and once I put that together with Persephone's letter I'm guessing the twist is that she's either become an Egyptian goddess? or that she's hiding among the Egyptian pantheon or something||
my own fault really but still lmao
wintry goblet
Now that's big brain
atomic forge
Damn
||It would be cool to see the Egyptian gods or at least a simple scant mention||
oak forum
honestly it reminded me of Rick Riordan's books more than anything lmao
open berry
really weird seeing the short description i wrote up Just To Have Something casually just pasted in here LOL "wait why does that sound familiar"
unique solar
Okay i give up trying to figure this out. What's the second-to-last artificat in the codex? the one right before ||Red Onion?||
Also i just did ||Extremer Measures ||and almost had a heart attack when ||Hades summoned Cerberus. That was one hell of a battle.||
supple dagger
@unique solar did you get the ||Anvil of Fate||? That's ||only available in Charon's Shop in the Temple of Styx, sometimes replacing a Hermes boon||.
hollow jewel
it is past 2am here and ||I finally finished the game on extreme measures 4|| after a number of tries... my fingers are all twitching.. that was so much
unique solar
i swear i have, but maybe i haven't. ill pick it up my next run. thanks
ivory spire
Alternatively, it may be ||the reward for beating Charon||
unique solar
oh yeah i definitely haven't done THAT
ivory spire
I don't remember if that has an entry
supple dagger
It might... I probs could hop into the game and find out again.
hollow jewel
Yeah that's what it is
supple dagger
But I'll check the wiki if anyone added that too.
hollow jewel
I just checked
supple dagger
oo
unique solar
Seriously though I saw ||Cerberus appear on the cut-in || in the battle and I was like ||"Do NOT make me fight the dog!"||
the trick to all fights is to hide behind your shield like a turtle
ivory spire
Good luck with that ||in phase 3||
unique solar
yeah that part was hectic but i pulled through.
unique solar
||he sits still and i see +1500 appear over his head|| and i PANIC
hollow jewel
crit fists will handle that nicely
unique solar
Decay and cold fusion while hiding also works
but yeah i had to go on the offensive there
hollow jewel
Ah yeah come to think decay really helped my last run
unique solar
another question
I have every keepsake at max rank, but don't even have the achievement for having them. what do i do?
every standard keepsake
graceful flax
sorry if im interrupting a convo but oh my god im going to do literally everything in my power to romance thanatos
is tht a thing in hades???? is there any romance??? pleas
unique solar
@graceful flax just keep at it
autumn void
you will not be disappointed
unique solar
Seriously though why won't these achievements unlock? and where do i ask that question?
autumn void
@unique solar i could answer your question but it's also... spoilery
pallid crag
yes
autumn void
answer: ||yes||
pallid crag
you can tell by the black space in the keepsake selection screen
autumn void
there isn't an obvious blank space for the one you're missing
i know because i had the same experience
haughty carbon
Yeah, just keep going
heavy vigil
I got death to spawn finally after 18 runs!
vagrant hawk
Man, I simply am NOT getting the Beuwolf Aspect conversation.
Sometimes Chaos doesn't even say anything at all. Could it be that I've done something wrong?
I've followed what the pinned message says.
royal totem
Is there more to the story after ||Persephone returns?||
lone kite
Yeah
open berry
@vagrant hawk have you equipped the shield
vagrant hawk
No, do I need to when talking to them?
opaque narwhal
||Well, I can almost beat Phase 3 of Hades...||
Which leads to the subsequent question as part of my strategy: Who, other than Chaos, can raise my maximum number of Bloodstones for the duration of the run?
Also, yeah, you need the Shield equipped, and then it's just luck of the draw. It took me a while, too.
vagrant hawk
@opaque narwhal Artemis Legendary I believe gives +2.
opaque narwhal
Darn, Artemis isn't in this run
vagrant hawk
On man, that kinda sucks.
Does this apply to Stygius as well?
woven jewel
is there any more main story lore after ||family secret|| achievement? Im about 30 hours total so dont have many nectars
autumn void
you can also get extra casts temporarily from wells and extend the duration with bone hourglass if you really want
opaque narwhal
I guess that's also an option, but by the point I need more Casts I'd rather have other Keepsakes.
clever fern
yeahhhhhhhh
delicate dew
what npcs return nectar after you've given enough? I know ||Hades|| does now but I coulda sworn there was somebody else during early acess
fervent skiff
||Dusa gives you the option to take all the ambrosia back|| @delicate dew
delicate dew
Ah I see thanks
||was wondering why I needed more and more for only her||
echo mist
got the ending
echo mist
but there's still a bunch of unforged bonds atm
anyone managed to get Hades affinity up?
do his hearts ever unlock?
nvm
charred flare
I just got to the credits and I'm ||torn between running again or letting Zag have a well deserved rest||
merry atlas
Is the answer to ||"how do I break Eurisydes, the muse, and boulder man from their contracts"|| "Do more runs?"
charred flare
I think so, yea. If there's specific triggers I hit them by accident and didn't realize
fervent skiff
@merry atlas ||You have to max out their affinities along with Nyx's (upto the locked heart). You also need access to the admin chamber. After that they'll give you the dialogue to continue and you'll get the pact to free them||
echo mist
oh right
merry atlas
Ah, thanks, I've been ignoring nyx for some reason
echo mist
I was maxing affinities out of habit lol
delicate dew
I did notice that ||Achilles mentions zag breaking sisyphus and orpheus contract when he asks you to break his, so I guessgyou have to do those first||
vagrant hawk
I've seen a video of a ||Hades keepsake||, is that legit?
prime mulch
yes
vagrant hawk
How does one get it?
prime mulch
play more after u get the credits
vagrant hawk
No need to give him Nectar or something?
prime mulch
u need to yes
vagrant hawk
How much?
prime mulch
not sure but i guess 2 at least since the second is locked before ending
vagrant hawk
Cool, thanks
fervent skiff
@vagrant hawk Please spoiler 1.0 content such as the ||Hades keepsake||
vagrant hawk
Sure.
runic cosmos
Oh man that feeling when you’re on a terrible run and you have half health and no Defiances left ||and Hades DOESN’T want to fight... ||Whew...
vivid cairn
I had the same thing when i had a build that did basically no damage full DD though but it wouldve been a slog
vale glacier
i thought orpheus was a woman 
frigid vine
Am I just getting unlucky with aspect unlocks? I have 40+ runs, 31 kills. And zero 4th aspects unlocked. Have fully upgraded 2 bows. Base/Posidein Sword fully, Base fists, base gun, and Hades spear to max. And nada. Mino never triggers, Artemis never, Hades nada. Does every aspect need to be at least unlocked to get the 4th? Super confused.
vivid cairn
Talk to achilles he gives you the first
frigid vine
Yeah he's still in the friend quest line, is that taking precedent so it's not triggering?
vivid cairn
Potentially? Cant say exactly why
frigid vine
I've talked to him every single time
normal kiln
yeah other dialogue can block the aspect unlocks
vivid cairn
Just keep talking to him thats i got for you
normal kiln
that’s usually what’s going on if they take a while to turn up
yeah pretty much, it’ll turn up eventually
frigid vine
Yeah, eventually is what I gather. I just didn't think eventually would be this long. I've done like 5-6 runs specfiically doing Max weapon runs talking to Mino/Art. Just crazy. Saw a person streaming with 4th Rail aspect and had like 1/4th the progress I had. Felt so strange
Kinda sucks it's just RNG
normal kiln
you need the spear one before you can get the others, so you’re waiting on the achilles convo
normal kiln
i’m fairly sure it’s a gateway to all
upbeat willow
spear 4th aspect is gateway to all other 4th aspects
frigid vine
zzzz Achilles, killing me smalls
He's even friend maxed, no longer my friend, shelving him
hot sluice
just beat the 4th extreme measures boss
i'm on a genuine adrenaline rush
what a fantastic game
hot sluice
the music :O
normal kiln
yus
i was weirdly happy when ||cerberus surprise yeeted one of my DDs away out of nowhere||
dunno why i enjoyed that moment, but it was great
normal kiln
yeah exactly
then afterwards it’s like ||of course he can summon his friend i do that all the time||
hot sluice
yeah, ||even with the same animation as your companions,|| it just fits so well
no way i can go back to non-extreme measures runs now, I think it makes the game much more enjoyable
wintry goblet
ay just got the ingame joke that dyonisus and zag are related
(people where talking about this here some hours ago)
so nice coincidence
full girder
I beat chiron twice and it didn't trigger the prophecy. do you have to fight him twice in the same run?
upbeat willow
you can only fight Charon once per run, I've been hearing the prophecy procs on the third charon victory
why, no clue
celest gust
guys i ahve a question
i need to know lmao
if you finish the game at the pretty first run you
whats the history then?
normal kiln
i got the prophecy after 2 wins only so idk
unless they changed it in 1.0
if you finish the game at the pretty first run
@celest gust idk do it
no way i can go back to non-extreme measures runs now, I think it makes the game much more enjoyable
@hot sluice yeah big mood
i was already running EM2 all the time just cause i love the upgraded lernie fight, now i’m just gonna die all the time from not turning off EM4 i guess
hot sluice
i actually think EM Theseus and Asterius is easier than normal
you can pretty much ignore Theseus until Asterius is dead
tidal gyro
where do i ask about how to unlock a god's favor?
hot sluice
maybe #h1-for-new-players?
tidal gyro
Its basically how do I unlock Aphrodite's favor cause i've romanced/full hearts one of the characters already, which is what gamepedia said i need to do
wintry goblet
Behind the top door in main chamber: || does hades sleep on a stone bed? with a stone cushion?||
frigid vine
@normal kiln Sigh, I went from Zag spear straight to Chaos, never unlocked Ach one. Did a single run with his spear, and it unlocked 4th aspect immediately, Arrrggggg. lol. Guess that's the trigger
normal kiln
huh maybe all the other aspects from a weapon need to be unlocked before you can get the 4th?
that would make sense i guess
frigid vine
Well if the Ach spear is the trigger for the rest might just you need to do a run with his
fast idol
wasn't it originally that you had to spend a certain amount of Titan blood?
was that changed?
frigid vine
Had to be, I had maxed Chaos and Zag spear and wouldn't unlock, level 1 Ach spear and it unlocked
Err Hades
normal kiln
looking at the pins, 4th spear is locked behind 5 aspects rather than 5 invested titan blood?
didn’t know that lol
fast idol
maybe they changed it to unlocking a certain amount of Aspects first
oh ye there it is haha
normal kiln
maybe achilles was your 5th?
frigid vine
Oh, hm, lemme see
Yep, because I never bothered to do a Gun aspect, just always stuck to the base. Probably that then
Beating my head into a wall running over and over because every post says its either Blood or questline triggered. Guess I shoulda came in here sooner. lol
fast idol
btw when does unlocking aspects trigger? I started a new fresh file on switch and I wondered how long it took
frigid vine
After you get all weapons I believe
normal kiln
and five alternate aspects, apparently
yeah i thought it was blood on spear as well until just now lol
fast idol
ah, let's see how long it takes to get the rail
fierce kernel
lol i did not remember this line back in early access with Than
||I'm searching for my mother. You still live at home with yours.||
what a burn
fast idol
jokes on him
||now they both do||
atomic forge
i just maxed Aspect of Zagreus on rail
now to seek out zeus to unlock the hidden one
also, what are the best heat modifiers to go heat 1? EM1?
knotty moss
its quite time consuming
atomic forge
since I also started fresh on switch
knotty moss
it was 48 minutes with just the cutscenes
atomic forge
still, just got my 6th kill and i'm on streak 4 so
knotty moss
no fighting
atomic forge
too big
knotty moss
if you want it, i can spoiler mark type in what you need to do
idk the exact numbers
tho
knotty moss
||after you have spoken with persephone enough times, i really dont know how many times, it was at least 30 minutes of dialouge, you need to escape with the gilgamesh aspect for the gauntlet||
atomic forge
uh
knotty moss
i expect the last part to be quite easy
knotty moss
i mean in the video it was like this
atomic forge
it might just be the first part
full girder
poseidon is still locked for me. I caught a ton of fish and still nothing...
atomic forge
a youtube thumbnail just spoiled the games ultimate ending for me.
prime mulch
i already done all that, arphrodite, ares, poseidon still locked for me
clever fern
i need a break right now
i mean its worth 5k gem tho
finnally i can finish my gallery
fast idol
huh? what does the Theme do?
normal kiln
allows you to show off your riches
fickle quiver
@normal kiln Sigh, I went from Zag spear straight to Chaos, never unlocked Ach one. Did a single run with his spear, and it unlocked 4th aspect immediately, Arrrggggg. lol. Guess that's the trigger
@frigid vine|| I've unlocked all weapons and more than 5 different aspects from other weapons/more than 5 blood on both sword and spear. Just did a run with ach spear but no trigger eeeehhh||
fickle quiver
I sure hope so
tawny copper
do I need to buy guan yu lvl1
to unlock other 4th aspects
cus artemis ain't letting me unlock rama
and I already maxed hera
clever fern
yessssssssssssss
solar heron
do you ever get ||to visit greece again|| after seeing the credits
||miss hearing the music but now when I finish a run it goes to flashcard then death||
tidal gyro
How do you unlock artemis’ favor?
spring karma
I wonder too regarding what Val said up there
so far I've done a few runs and it's the same loop, I'm hoping ||sometimes you can go up to her garden and see Persephone and Demeter together or something, like how you can randomly run into Sisyphus or Eurydice and so on||
||I haven't maxed out Persephone's hearts yet so maybe this is the case and I'm just missing out ||
empty ibex
Has Supergiant Games released the theme that plays ||as Zag and Persephone travel back to Hell?||
Oh nevermind. Found it
fathom current
Say, the entrance to the House from Tartarus is an uppy-downy door, right?
Like, a...FNAF door.
Or did it open inwards
atomic forge
does anyone remember the unlock phrase for the sword aspect?
I need it for nickname pursposes :3
drifting citrus
check pins!
atomic forge
I forgot they were written there!
jagged moss
I finally found out who hired skelly. ||it was Charon. I was wondering why Skelly wasn't showing up when I was fighting Charon||
fathom current
I feel like a conversation should be had whenever you can’t summon someone in a specific fight, like everyone but Skelly and Sisyphus during Redacted’s fight.
woven jewel
The pinned method of unlocking fourth aspect is not correct
I'm like 5 final boss kills in after getting all aspect without any trigger for fourth aspect
Maybe has something to do with story dialogue taking precedent over unlock dialogue
Either way it's a damn hassle don't want to suicide for unlocks
jagged moss
lol that would be awesome. Like Meg or Than getting annoyed at you for trying to call them while fighting hades
jade slate
so like
glossy prism
There are a couple voice lines for trying to summon them when they're already there(during her boss fight or when than intervenes)
jade slate
athena has a line where she has the same list of fated prophecies as zag
wonder what she thinks when she sees some of them
fast idol
"Why is it important for me to know that Zagreus can play the harp?"
gets crossed out
"Well at least now I know one of his talents"
I'd be more assuming that she has her own minor prophecies though
jade slate
good thing the fates didnt put ||"bring the queen of hell back to her husbands arms"|| or whatever on the list huh
no im pretty sure one of her lines was that it was the same list, zag tasks and all
fast idol
oh
that's
weird
jade slate
granted its been like two months since i heard the line but
how would she know that zag has the list otherwise right
placid delta
wait... can ||hades|| clear himself of the ||gilgamesh|| debuff when he teleports
open berry
I think anything that can teleport clears itself of debuffs
placid delta
yeesh
open berry
was just using that aspect last night but I can't recall offhand if I saw maim cleared out, can't say I was really paying attention
open berry
I wasn't paying attention lmao em4 eats up more of my focus but either way I think it's inherently dumb for any instance where teleport clears debuff (looking at you wretched sneak)
primal creek
Do we ever find out who the narrator is?
novel trout
ffs man i can never get the fists aspect
Did so many runs and found that bull and he never mentions it
drifting citrus
the narrator's identity is in the game, but it's very obscure and way out of the way
open berry
@novel trout have you had asterius comment on the fists
like have you worn them and he's said something
novel trout
no thats the prob
open berry
try using them in a run
novel trout
ive been playing with those damn fists even when i hate them
open berry
novel trout
He did mention something about it one time about getting beaten by them
but he didnt mention the phrase
open berry
(Fists are my fav lmao) is he still giving unique dialogue when you encounter him
open berry
I'm not sure if the blood requirement still holds up for 1.0 since I haven't double checked that, but just to eliminate all possibilities, what are your aspect levels like
novel trout
Everything maxed
primal creek
@drifting citrus Mind telling me what it is, or at least pointing me in the direction of finding out?
drifting citrus
Mind telling me what it is, or at least pointing me in the direction of finding out?
||purchase the bust of the poet from the contractor, and interact with it a lot||
primal creek
👍 ||I reckoned that was involved||
open berry
All I can suggest from that point is try getting with support on it bc idk what's with the fists
indigo sable
fast idol
the answer to that kinda involves spoilers
bleak haven
Alright I have gotten fed up enough with unlocking the fists that I searched through the data files and can report the sequence of events that are required. This will go in the next post and will be spoiler tagged - if mods could pin it I think that might be helpful.
full girder
how do i unlock poseidon's last heart? i've already bonded with all other npc but stuck on him and hypnos...
drifting citrus
how do i unlock poseidon's last heart? i've already bonded with all other npc but stuck on him and hypnos...
start fishing more
full girder
i caught like 500 fish already
azure bluff
HoopyFreud u want 4th fists aspect right?
fast idol
sometimes it just takes a while to get the right dialogue trigger
full girder
rng of what exactly? conversation rng or fishing rng?
drifting citrus
conversation rng
open berry
really wondering how the dialogue priority is weighted bc I've seen a lot of people asking about poseidon lately
full girder
ok, so just the 1st time i get his boon in a run counts? because only then there's a conversation
bleak haven
In order to unlock the hidden aspect of the Fists, you must do the following:
- ||You must face the Elysium endbosses with any weapon.||
- ||You must face Asterius on his own with any weapon and hear the line, "You have met the Champion, the king. Let us see if you are fit to face him once again."||
- ||You must face Asterius on his own while using the Fists and hear the line, "You mean to fight with me bare-handed this time, short one? I'm not ashamed to say the Champion himself defeated me in such a manner back when we drew breath."||
- ||You must face Asterius on his own while using any weapon. He will give you the words to unlock the fists' hidden aspect.||
open berry
@bleak haven also mods probably aren't gonna pin something you outright said you datamined for when it's not to be discussed on this server
full girder
also is there something special i need to do in a run to get the hypnos event going? or just finish a run whatever and go back to house of hades?
bleak haven
I mean we have guides for all the other weapons in the pin
it just so happens that the fists have weirdly complex unlock prereqs
open berry
yeah I'll get with peach later to edit it
I mean it's not really complicated, it still comes down to 'keep running' 'keep fighting asterius' it's just that dialogue rng is dumb
bleak haven
well you need to be wearing the fists to unlock the dialogue that unlocks the dialogue that unlocks the fists
full girder
dialogue changes in EM3 no?
fast idol
yeah but it's the same with, say Rail
you need to run with rail first to get Zeus to talk about it
bleak haven
but you don't need to be wearing fists to unlock the fists
fast idol
and then after you sometime get the phrae
open berry
yeah we've been telling people you need to wear the weapons, it's a new 1.0 requirement
bleak haven
but you don't
fast idol
you do to trigger the first dialogue though
bleak haven
yeah, that's what I mean
open berry
you don't understand my point. it was never required in any instance previously to wear the weapon at any point to get waking phrases
unreal ivy
@fast idol so i want to get the 4th rail aspect, but when i put 5 titan blood into it and i talked to zeus he just mentioned i had it equipped. do i just keep going until zeus says the waking words?
bleak haven
I think it's confusing because whenever someone says this someone else chimes in with, "well I unlocked it with a different weapon"
and what's really happening is that there's a pre-unlock dialogue that you need to be wearing the weapon for
but it's leading people to give bad advice
unreal ivy
ohh ok
so once i get through that dialogue, i just keep playing until zeus tells me the waking words right
bleak haven
yeah, exactly
unreal ivy
got it thanks
full girder
does datamining give you the exact odds to get the right conversations?
they should make a "pity timer" like hearthstone legendaries. if you didn't get it X times, X+1 will guarantee it.
bleak haven
it's not about odds
at least I don't think
if you have available unplayed lines it will play them
or, one of them
full girder
it doesn't repeat lines twice?
bleak haven
no, repeatable lines are lowest priority
open berry
most dialogue in the game is unique and does not repeat. repeated lines are only cycled in once a character no longer has new dialogue to say
full girder
so it really just a matter of time and keep getting all other options
bleak haven
yeah
full girder
i guess il
bleak haven
the odds depend on how many unplayed lines you have
full girder
keep dying on purpose then
true grove
I have a question about unlocking the aspects in general. Ive read conflicting reports on what to do. Could someone point me to the definitive way to do it? I dont mean for ALL of them. I mean just to get it started.
prime mulch
em4 is surprisingly easy
open berry
speak for yourself em4 added to my stress levels lol
drifting citrus
huh????
atomic forge
How to have maximum friendship with Cerberus? (only 3 remaining but no locked)
open berry
pet him a lot
drifting citrus
pets
open berry
and then ambrosia the good boy
atomic forge
thanks! but consecutive?
bleak haven
@true grove the first aspect you'll get is the spear, and the requirements in the sticky for that weapon are acurate
open berry
doesn't need to be consecutive
atomic forge
ok thanks ^^
true grove
@true grove the first aspect you'll get is the spear, and the requirements in the sticky for that weapon are acurate
@bleak haven so 5 total. Fight end boss again.
bleak haven
yeet
true grove
ah that is what I messed up.
I read somewhere else it was 3
I need 5. got it. No prob.
bleak haven
and actually if you've seen the end boss once you don't need to get there again for it
true grove
Oh sweet.
bleak haven
it sets the flag that you've seen it and that's enough
but you will have to at least start a run lol
true grove
so just 5, do a run, die. Talk to achillies
bleak haven
yeah
true grove
ty
full girder
how many times do i need to play the lyre to finish the prophecy?
novel trout
@bleak haven thanks, just the last step left then i guess
bright epoch
Hey when does one get a chance to obtain the keepsake of hades?
fast idol
oh man I never noticed this before
if you have a trial of the gods and have a call of the god that you angered and use it, Zag apologizes instead of calling their name
regal latch
extremer measures was a blast, holy cow that fight had my blood pumping
open berry
@full girder 210
nocturne sandal
||Hades call against Hades is hilarious. "Father!... Boy!"||
quartz helm
im pretty sure one time he said something like ||"I can hear you, stop shouting"||
full girder
ok kept suiciding and bonded with poseidon finally! now only hypnos left. do I need to meet thanatos during a run to advance that plotline?
open berry
yes, bc that's the only time than shows at the house
quartz helm
ive met him in a run but he hasnt shown up in the house. happened multiple times before
open berry
can't say I've had that happen to my knowledge. not recently. but he does not appear at the house unless you encounter him
quartz helm
its happened at least 3/4 times now where i'll see than in a run but he wont be in the house. once he was interacting with hypnos but still 3 times where he doesnt show is weird
fair crown
I've done 95 runs and my final hearts are still locked for Sisyphus, what do? 
full girder
i hope you have 10 diamonds to spare
fair crown
👀
quartz helm
||gotta free him from his punishment, talk to hades and meg along with sisyphus himself i think, you'll need 7 diamonds to buy out his contract at contractor||
fair crown
I guess I just get to wait for more story bits for that to finally unlock
full girder
keep talking to these npcs after each run
quartz helm
im saving that for later lol
fair crown
I just like sweet tunes.
quartz helm
fair enough
placid shore
So guys
Anyone knows about that locked door on the north section of house of Hades?
quartz helm
left or right
fast idol
they both unlock with playtime
quartz helm
^
fast idol
there is nothing really you can miss, just always talk to NPCs with a ! above them
wicked palm
re: unlocking the hidden aspects, it does get overridden by other story flags, right? ||Achilles had an exclamation mark above his head and he let me into Hades' chambers, but I couldn't talk to him after that. 6 aspects unlocked already.||
median ruin
So, while the game doesn't ||really have a traditional big bad, Demeter is pretty much the actual central villain of the story, wouldn't you say?||
dapper socket
||So Zagreus got friendzoned by Dusa? 
or that does depend your established relationship?||
median ruin
Or anyway ||she's the one who's ultimately responsible for most of the suffering.||
fair crown
I was wondering the same thing @dapper socket
clever fern
Dad actual blame me for buying 5k gem theme
alpine briar
ok question
||Hades gave me a keepsake, which is cool, but I am still missing one, how?||
atomic forge
Is Zagreus actually the god of anything?
clever fern
||mom keepsake|| @alpine briar
atomic forge
Doesn't seem to be.
atomic forge
That's what he might potentially be, and nothing's hard confirmed.
I don't think Zag's the god of anything in particular tbh.
clever fern
he just a made up character tho
achilles said his cast is blood
so he might be god of blood
quartz helm
technically he is a god cause his two parents are gods, but we dont know what he's the god of
atomic forge
He actually existed in the myths as the counterpoint/brother/other version of Dionysus.
viscid cave
Question, is mentioning Chaos in the other chats considered a spoiler?
fast idol
I don't think so, considering you can encounter them on your third run
atomic forge
||Zagreus was supposed to be stillborn, remember? Nyx interfering with the Fates is what allowed him to exist in the first place, but as a result the Fates can't really assign him a role, which means he just... exists, a god with no title, purpose or domain. He's got the power of a god, but no real domain of his own and hence very little real power or purpose.||
quartz helm
yes but the fact that the fates have prophecies for him to fulfill implies that what nyx did was fated to happen
atomic forge
||Zagreus' entire thing is that he feels like he has no real purpose or place anywhere in the world and his quest to find Persephone is really a quest to find purpose through family.||
quartz helm
fair enough, but achilles' theory makes sense to me esp with his bloodstones
atomic forge
Counterpoint, they're lists that Zag can mostly ignore and he's bribed for completing them, and it's implied that ||the secrets of Zag's birth coming out would have some really nasty consequences for all involved.||
Him being a god of blood and life makes his struggles less overtly tragic, to me.
whole path
@dapper socket that result is the same no matter what