And this particular instance where Dionysus tells him to lie about them being connected
#h1-story-discussion
halcyon cloud
lyric urchin
Is basically alluding to this myth?
halcyon cloud
Is a long and circuituous joke about Orphism, as well as to call attention to the parallels between Orphism and things from the game inspired by it
Yes, it's alluding to it, and alluding to its allusion to Orphism in other places
Like how the god Nyx contacts to tell the others Zagreus needs help is Athena
amber vessel
i think all those things zagreus tells to orpheus boasting are different myths too
not from zagreus though
halcyon cloud
Those are the other exploits of Zagreonysus
Whatever you want to call the weird fusion
amber vessel
wine zagreus thank you
halcyon cloud
Orphism and "mainstream Hellenism" do tend to get blended a lot in regards to Zagreus
amber vessel
yep, is a bit convoluted
but that's the thing with most mythos, everyone kinda told a different story about the same characters
halcyon cloud
Actually I'm sorry
It's important I clarify that because it does color a few assumptions about the game
Zagreus is kind of a strange character in greek myth
lyric urchin
For the ongoing story I assume
halcyon cloud
Orphism links him with Zeus, his oldest mentions have him married to Gaia as "the highest god"
Yes exactly
But the one people associate with calling him the son of Hades and Persephone is Aeschylus
Who, for anyone who doesn't know
Is the father of tragedy
He was a playwright who dealt exclusively in tragic sagas, with his most well known one in life being The Persians, dealing with the ongoing Persian invasion of Greece
In death of course as artists tend to be, he became widely acclaimed as the father of modern tragedy in plays, and they were "distributed" in his life if you will through festivals to the gods chiefly in the theatre of dionysus - those extant plays that survived were his tragedies and trilogies, and these won these festivals (even beating out Oedipus Rex at one point, another extant greek play and one studied academically to this day)
half shadow
hmm... interesting... I feel slightly less uncultured now, thanks 😄
halcyon cloud
It is in fact
Small Gods was my favorite book of Terry Pratchett's
and I thought it funny to name myself on discord after the villain of it
halcyon cloud
If you liked Small Gods I'd recommend to you Pyramids and Moving Pictures
lyric urchin
Once my public library open up again I guess
halcyon cloud
You could probably find it on Amazon for cheap
But regardless I feel as though some influence in Hades was drawn from Aeschylus
Which may explain the one reference to Prometheus in the game, as one of Aeschylus' more contended plays in authorship was Prometheus Bound
lyric urchin
What does that cover?
I'm thinking it covers the story of how Prometheus got bound to the rock
halcyon cloud
Prometheus Bound is about, well, Prometheus being bound. It's a trilogy dedicated to the punishment of Prometheus and the eventual reconciliation between Zeus and Prometheus
lyric urchin
Oh, so I was correct somewhat
halcyon cloud
Prometheus starts the play in chains and remains there for the rest of the first in the trilogy
Hephaestus, Oceanus, and a chorus of Oceanids express sympathy for Prometheus; in act two Prometheus meets Io, who prophesises that one of her descendants will free him from the rock; the play closes with Zeus sending Prometheus to the abyss for not divulging a secret, a prophesized marriage that would result in Zeus' downfall
Prometheus Unbound was the second of the three which involves Heracles (the prophesied descendant of Io) freeing Prometheus and killing the eagle which tortured him for eons. Though oddly, Prometheus Unbound ends with the mention of Zeus having forgiven and released the other titans
Prometheus the Fire Bringer was the last of the trilogy and in it, Prometheus decides to forgive Zeus in a way by telling him that it was the sea nymph Thetis who would give birth to a son greater than the father, and that should Zeus marry her they would beget a son who would overthrow him. Zeus marries Thetis to the mortal Peleus, and their union begets Achilles. Yes, that Achilles. The Firebringer ends with Zeus inagurating a festival in Prometheus' honor in Athens as an expression of mourning
amber vessel
wait
Zeus sending Prometheus to the abyss for not divulging a secret
for not divulging?
halcyon cloud
Prometheus knew what would result in Zeus' downfall but refused to say
amber vessel
cause zeus wanted to know which marriage of his would create achilles? XD
halcyon cloud
Pretty much,y eah
Zeus in the play is depicted as a cruel god, Io being another of his victims
amber vessel
just a bit shut in then? :p
lyric urchin
He's remarkably fair
amber vessel
damn i would gladly link the video of two guys that sing songs about some gods
they recently finished the series about the first 5 gods
but it's in spanish
lyric urchin
Other gods would probably be Set I guess
amber vessel
they constantly put emphasis on how much zeus loved having love affairs
halcyon cloud
At any rate the tragedies of Aeschylus bear some mention due to he being the one to also name Zagreus as the successor to Hades
while I doubt Orphism has any impact on the plot beyond a small joke
lyric urchin
Hmm, Greeks comedies usually have bad endings too
halcyon cloud
Aeschylus is a clear inspiration for this story to some ends
lyric urchin
So we might be in one
halcyon cloud
I don't think there will be a bad ending
There will be a bad ending that gets avoided though I think
amber vessel
avoided?
halcyon cloud
Not that Supergiant steers away from bad endings, but this is a reinterpretation of myth with modern sensibilities
For example how incestuous the greek pantheon is
Or how violent it is
amber vessel
it is implied though
amber vessel
aprodite telling us that there are 9 kinds of love and she has several for zagreus, or artemis implying she has a crush on zagreus exist though
but yeah, they kinda avoided the super incestuous part
amber vessel
i mean, you can also romance some weird ones down there
A fury, a severed medusa head and the god of death
haughty carbon
Artemis isn't exactly interested in Zagreus and was confirmed by devs multiple times.
amber vessel
interesting, really seemed that way in the artemis/aphrodite dual dialogue i got yesterday
maybe i misread it
halcyon cloud
She's interested in him
But not like, romantically
which is a shame because she is best girl
amber vessel
XD
halcyon cloud
the interaction you're referring to, and I can clear it up for you
Artemis only hunts with virgins
As she herself is one, and is kind of the unofficial goddess of purity
amber vessel
but artemis doesn't hunt with men right?
yeah, i think the official goddess of purity was hestia
her purity is kind of a big deal when mentioned
amber vessel
oh, didn't know that part
halcyon cloud
So the question she was asking and saying "and don't take this the wrong way" is "are you a virgin"
Which is why Aphrodite butts in
amber vessel
interesting didn't understand it that way at first, but does make more sense now that you mention it
it's funny how much greek gave importante to purity on women
while greek gods are promiscuous as hell
well, zeus mostly, but the rest ain't squeaky clean either
halcyon cloud
Greeks actually didn't place that much importance on it, it was more just that virginity was an aspect of the myth of Artemis
She was one of the three virgin goddesses, the other two being Athena and Hestia
amber vessel
is there any virgin god?
halcyon cloud
I don't think so
The fixation on virginity I think is less a point of a concern with it in greek society and more of era sexism, or a need for them to remain independent
Though, we were talking about Apollo vs Helios before
Apollo is responsible for a pretty bad thing that happened to the man who got the closest to Artemis ever, Orion
amber vessel
have heard about both, but no idea what the deal was
halcyon cloud
Basically Orion was the one man who captured Artemis' heart, but Apollo... did something, it's not clear
In some cases he induced a suicidal madness in Orion, in others he dupes Artemis into killing him
In any case Apollo causes the death of Orion out of jealousy and overprotectiveness
amber vessel
woah
what an ass
the story ends in there? i mean orion is probably around the underworld
halcyon cloud
It's unknown, but Orion was something of a hero in his own right
While he would never be on Olympus, he probably would not be in Hades either
amber vessel
heroes doesn't go to hades?
halcyon cloud
No they totally do
Actually here, he is in Hades
Hunting the animals he hunted in life
Though he's not in Elysium
I doubt Orion is present in the game anywhere, however
amber vessel
yep, i haven't even seen any reference about him anywhere
halcyon cloud
Scrubbing Apollo and Orion from the slate does make Artemis a less jaded character
amber vessel
yep she does seem even innocent
a bit weird for being a huntress, but that's the impression i get from her
halcyon cloud
well you know hunting is something humans have done since humans have been humans right
it's the conversion of survival to sport, and to the enjoyment of the necessary
amber vessel
i do like artemis more being like that
the trope of the cruel, bloodthirsty hunter is already a bit overdone
simple lily
since zag is apparently god of ||blood|| i feel like his true place is in the middle of many places, Heaven, Earth, Hell
but maybe more Earth / Hell. Shame since I like Olympus 😭
thorny surge
He’s the god of blood (maybe), it’s all speculation from Achilles
thorny surge
Imo he’s a god of rebirth rather than life
simple lily
he gonna RESURRECT
thorny surge
Zagreus died for our sins
thorny surge
ZAGREUS
SUPERSTAR
I FORGOT HOW THE SONG WENT FROM HERE
simple lily
true blood is never vanquished
ive yet to unlock this very cool song
but yea as a god of blood or life his place is definitely out of Hell...but maybe not among Olympians
he may be a wandering god
with many adventures, like Dionysus or Hephaistos or Hermes
you have many myths about gods representing life forces going to Hell and / or coming back
in several civilizations
small saddle
I always thought that god of blood line was just a jab from achilles, I dunno if that's really what he is
fickle comet
The God of NG+.
thorny surge
Nah, he’s probably a god of rebirth
It would keep up with the original Zagreus’ theme of life and rebirth maybe, we don’t really know what zagreus’ deal was
simple lily
i don't think it's just a thought, because Zagreus does bleed like mortals (red), and it's pointed out by several characters. In my run i've had Hades and the Furies talking to me about it
small saddle
don't they all bleed red?
thorny surge
Yes, that’s why Achilles speculates about it
Also likely because Zag is not a full god
simple lily
but he may not be the god of blood in an Ares / Eris sense
thorny surge
No, the gods bled Ichor
simple lily
more like, a life god
thorny surge
Zag bleeds red like a mortal
amber vessel
doesnt hades bleed red too?
thorny surge
No
simple lily
in the Iliad, the gods don't bleed mortal blood, they bleed divine substance
bc they eat ambrosia
amber vessel
ichor
small saddle
huh, I kinda figured they just bled, cause after you kill em they do that red blood splash thing
thorny surge
The red stuff is him taking a dip into the pool o blood to pop back at the House
simple lily
its true ingame tho i think most characters do bleed some Titan blood
Zagreus does bleed red blood like mortals and it's confirmed by Hades lines (and Alecto's)
amber vessel
the only one that doesn't do the red thing is thysiphone
that becomes green butterflies
haven't met alecto in a while, but i guess she also shouldn't, because she ain't allowed into the palace where the blood pool is
simple lily
it seems to me that Hades bleeds red but anyway apart from the visual aspect that can be misleading, it seems well established by the dialogues that Zagreus bleeds differently than immortals
amber vessel
anyone remember how the death animation plays out for alecto?
simple lily
no
its true demi-gods bleed red blood, like Heracles did, but Heracles didn't have any access to nectar or ambrosia.
Zag is in a different category
he's already immortal and a god
a godling maybe
thorny surge
The blood thing isn’t them bleeding, it’s them sinking into the pool
The only ones that do not do that are the two Furies that are banished from the House and the Hydra, which just explodes
simple lily
but still a god
thorny surge
Also isn’t Zag’s divine status dubious at best in-universe? Even Hades himself implies he may not be a full one
He’s not fully divine after all, he’s about three quarter olympian at best
simple lily
i think Hades is not the best source you have for your status since he wants to diminish your ambitions pretty often
to me Zag is pretty divine since he's born of 2 gods
thorny surge
God and a demigoddess*
small saddle
I bet that zag's status as god or whatever has something to do with persephone running out
thorny surge
Persekore is a demigoddess in Hades’ canon apparently
amber vessel
he is a little bit human, the eye already tells that a bit
but that doesn't seem to affect him
thorny surge
So he’s roughly three quarters divine even if his divine side is more relevant since he basically looks like a young Hades with heterochromia
simple lily
maybe...but in the myths she's the queen of Hell and def a goddess
small saddle
that's a big leap by supergiant if they did that
thorny surge
In the myths Zagreus was also the son of Zeus and also not the prince of the underworld
amber vessel
it is curious that the only power we have seen from him was the summoning
thorny surge
Maybe
simple lily
anyway if Zagreus is half mortal that is pretty heavily negated by both his immortal status and the fact he eats and drinks like gods, which gives him a superior status
thorny surge
Doesn’t Hades say he’s lucky to be immortal? Imo he’s not fully divine, at least not yet
halcyon cloud
Zagreus: God of Pepsi
amber vessel
there is another take where zagreus is the reeincarnation of dionysius
small saddle
I think saying he's lucky to be immortal is more like he's lucky Hades lets him keep coming back
simple lily
Zag is already divine, otherwise he would be nothing more than a soul, a common soul
junior field
hand it over, your divine soul!
amber vessel
nono
thorny surge
I’m not saying he doesn’t have a divine part since he’s got some otherworldly properties but he’s not fully divine either
junior field
Miyazaki, you did it again!
small saddle
- he's using some pretty opop ancient weapons that only gods have wielded
thorny surge
Not really, notable mortals like Achilles and Chiron also used em
amber vessel
btw i still suspect thanatos' scythe ain't far from zagreus' weapons
halcyon cloud
At any rate this game borrows some ideas from Orphic canon, not a whole lot though
amber vessel
takes a bit of everything
halcyon cloud
Hades also borrows ideas from Aeschylus' playwriting
amber vessel
and leave behind some rather sinister or awkward facts
halcyon cloud
And Aeschylus in general
Heck, Zagreus being the son of Hades was something put forth by Aeschylus
thorny surge
Also we don’t really know what the full orphic traditions were since they were a closed part
What was a tradition was less Dionysus being reborn Zagreus and more the whole theme of death and rebirth
Zagreus may have been the original figure (maybe) but Dionysus is the end result of centuries of the tradition evolving and changing, not an end result within tbe myths
simple lily
i don't think in greek myths the "fully divine" concept exist per se, there are demigods of course but either they are "divinised" and live as gods, drink as gods and are immortals, or they walk among mortals and live as mortals. In Homer's works for example the body of Patroclus is preserved with ambrosia so it's "divinised" altho he's not divine, but he has divine properties. So it's not really a question of being fully or not fully, it's a question of, are you immortal. And Zag is.
and even if he were not, which would make no sense, he has access to divine food, so he's preserved as a god
thorny surge
I’d also say having power over a domain (or a domain proper) is also what makes a god or goddess, which is something Zagreus doesn’t have, at least not yet
amber vessel
he is something weird though
simple lily
Zeus didn't have any domain before vanquishing his father
amber vessel
not only the companions
thorny surge
At most he’s shown hints of what’s implied to be his abilities or domains subtly manifesting
I mean domain as in fire, death, lightning etc
amber vessel
but how he addapts to those powers with ease
thorny surge
Not territory
simple lily
the gods are simply an immortal race but not the only one
halcyon cloud
Titans, for example
simple lily
Zeus didn't even have nor heavens nor thunder before he met with the Cyclops
i think ingame there is a detail that doesn't make sense tho
concerning Eurydice, it's not important, but at some point she says she can't feel the heat. But everywhere else the deads can feel the heat...and in myths, even gods can feel pain and be hurt
thorny surge
i'd say the game does seem to deviate from that, since we've gotten hints that gods are born with already having some amount of power over some domain from ongoing dialogue
simple lily
not necessarily, look at Heracles, the game doesnt picture him (as far as i know) as being in Hell, so let's suppose he's been divinised like in the mythology and he's got no domain
some gods or immortals share more or less the same domains
Hypnos / Morpheus, the three Fates...
every sea god...
thorny surge
yes, heracles is mentioned as being on elysium
simple lily
the winds...
thorny surge
zag taunts his father about not having gotten heracles to help in one of the convos
amber vessel
he also mentions in the colisseum that he should be the champion already
and that he would like someone else, like heracles, to challenge him
thorny surge
and then theseus gets salty lol
good times
guess he never got over being bailed by Heracles
simple lily
lol, i liked that line too
clear oracle
we repeat a much difficult task only to start it over and over again
we get whipped by the Furies everytime
tfw we are all Sisyphus on this blessed day
halcyon cloud
Yeah the fact that there's a comment that Zagreus got some of his mannerisms from Sisyphus in the codex is not incidental
thorny surge
Yeah
Some of Zag’s sympathy for him might actually stem from both being stuck doing a task only to get sent back to the starting point at the end of it
simple lily
or maybe Zag digs his broad shoulders
and devious smile
altho it looks somewhat unnerving
thorny surge
I mean
Sisyphus wasn’t exactly what one would call a saint in life
The “i’m gonna stab you in the back as you turn around” smile fits him imo
I wouldn’t be surprised if his niceness with Zagreus wasn’t so he could get his punishment eased
Nyx does say she doesn’t detect any malice from him but it’s not like Sisyphus hasn’t tricked the gods of the underworld before
foggy cobalt
||Interestingly...right now, it doesn't seem so. When you do it, he seems genuinely shocked and even tells Zag that he wasn't a good man, unless I misremember.||
||He thanks you for it anyway, but it seems to indicate he wasn't angling for it.||
supple dagger
Does the game actually mention much about Sisyphus' life before being brought to the Underworld after his cat and mouse game with Thanatos? Becuase I don't think I have much memory of anything else outside that and his punishment to roll a boulder up a hill (in-game, looks more like stairs) even though it's to roll back to the base. After years of that, he decided "let's give you a face. I shall name you Bouldy!" and then Megaera appears.
foggy cobalt
The myths go into some detail of what a jerk he was.
But that's not specifically mentioned in-game.
Hinted at, though.
open berry
the game only hints that sisyphus cheated death but never implies any of the other awful things he did in life
though sisyphus himself vaguely tells zag at some point he wasn't a good person but it's only ever vaguely implied he did horrible things
the cheated death thing is mentioned in the codex I think? this makes me suddenly think that a lot of media references to sisyphus I've seen over the last years only mention him cheating death but none of the other variants to the myth lmao
cloud geode
he had to die in the first place (as in: the gods wanted him dead) because he always killed his guests breaking the sacred rules of hospitality which was a big no no thing to do
open berry
one specific thing is absolutely fair to leave out and not mention and I don't begrudge anyone overlooking it, but even the treatment of guests hardly comes up when a host's hospitality was a pretty important thing to the culture in general
anyway hades doesn't mention that
cloud geode
maybe the game assumes we know the story already? It does treat some things as an "inside joke" like Zag and Dio's prank, Aphrodite's treatment of Ares and the reason Eurydice and Patroclus are an unholy degree of pissed with their boyfriends
open berry
There's also another variant to the sisyphus myth in which he happened across one of zeus's affairs and more or less reported it, and was punished for that because it's not within his authority do to so, but I rarely see this come up. still results in the cheating death thing
cloud geode
oof poor guy then
open berry
sometimes it's a separate thing, sometimes it happens along with his treatment of guests, really depends on the source. but it's definitely still meant to be a negative thing to sisyphus even if it's presented without the context of the bad things he did
because zeus is zeus and the absolute gall of a mortal to do this, ect
aphrodite is sympathetic to ares, this is true, but it's light. the olympians still have negative opinions on ares, but it's light. these aspects are all interestingly toned down, but you can certainly see most of the family make commentary of ares at his expense if you pick his boons before theirs sometimes
cloud geode
ok i checked wikipedia and yeah the snooping is supposed to be the main cause of his sentence other than the guests thing
dense sparrow
wait, is the aphrodite-ares pairing canon?
open berry
No
And I doubt they will imply much more than aphrodite being sympathetic to him
she already mentions having a husband and pairing them can still be incestuous, which ofc sgg is avoiding implications of
she never name drops hephaestus tho lol
if he was ever fully added sgg is rewriting some backstory for one of them for sure
dense sparrow
wait, aphro is the daughter of ouranos and pontus tho?
clear oracle
No?
open berry
It depends on the myth you look at
dense sparrow
well, yea
open berry
It's just easier to avoid it, especially since it's not really important to the game to begin with
I partially wonder if ares and aphrodites relationship in myth is part of why they went with the interpretation of ares they did. in myth aphrodite was noted to be one of the few things that could calm him down, but of course in this instance they don't have that relationship and ares is more cordial and respectful while retaining a thirst for violence
dense sparrow
that is more mars than ares, the respect. mars is basically ares and the war part of athena combined.
open berry
if you dig deep enough in ares myths he wasn't just the brute he's commonly depicted to be
cloud geode
is any figure in the myths always portrayed accurately anyway?
dense sparrow
well, illiad portrays him as a brute, and that is usually what people thinks
open berry
I don't doubt they used aspects of mars but I personally feel it's incorrect to say ares was only the violent angry side you tend to always see
sgg doesn't just use homer's works as reference though
greg has confirmed they've drawn on ovid, hesiod, ect for their interpretations
dense sparrow
yes, but even in the few myths he appears in, only the cadmus myth portraays him as mildly reasonable
cloud geode
i like how they at least hinted at the fact that aphrodite is much more dangerous and powerful than what she seems
open berry
aphrodite was seen as a war god in some aspects so yeah
dense sparrow
and ares, symbolizing the greek warfare is supposed to be like that because the greek method is phalanx warfare, basically shield pushing, so pretty dumb
ares is the hoplite and athena is the strategos
cloud geode
He's the amazons' patron god and avenged her roped daughter so you could also argue he wasn't that much of a misogynistic douche. Respecting ancient standards of misoginy ofc
dense sparrow
well, spartan ares is supposed to be smort
halcyon cloud
Well um
I dunno if this was said, I came in late
Aphrodite isn't exactly the daughter of anyone except Uranus
But that's a bit messy
cloud geode
i imagine him not as a total stupid but not even as acute as athena or other gods: he has his own moral code and way of thinking, heavily inspired by blood lust but not blindly.
like,, a sadist with extra steps that enjoys war more than hurting others
kinda. probably not. idk
cloud geode
in the game idk
i mean are they gonna go with and show her story of how she sprung from the sky's evirated tool?
vapid parcel
i assumed as much tbh, since she doesn't call anyone a family member
the other gods mention their relations to the others in conversation at least once iirc
cloud geode
sometimes she's just... there, as an olympian. She is older than Zeus in the Hesiod version
on the hades wiki there's literally written
Relations ?
vapid parcel
tbh since they wanted to avoid incest i just assumed tho depending how they handle hephaestus that's still an issue xD
dense sparrow
i dont think there'll be another god
vapid parcel
i dont think there'll be another god
@dense sparrow thats not what i meant, i mostly meant depending what we might learn in conversations yk
supple dagger
Honestly, with how the whole game is rn, they could give some characters an art sprite at least. They don't even have to speak. i.e. Callisto, what does she look like! Aphrodite's husband, what does he look like?
I hope Hermes fits into the narrative in some way too. He feels underutilized imo for one of the Olympians that actually moves to and fro' the Underworld. He could probably sneak Zagreus something to help him get out.
cloud geode
I would love alternate sprites for the character! Like an angry version for spurned gods etc.
Maybe in the next update hermes will have something? Maybe his favor? He's kinda related to Charon
supple dagger
Now, I'm just thinking about Charon giving Zagreus challenges to redistribute some Orbs that he might use later... :3
drifting citrus
chaos would enjoy minion memes send tweet
upbeat tundra
I just realized that the song of Zag is a shoutout to his actual mythology
mystic mortar
...maybe
fervent skiff
halcyon cloud
Yeah
It takes some explaining to understand the meta joke of dionysus and zagreus decieving orpheus
but it's a pretty good joke once you get it
north garden
i cant believe zeus is a jojo fan https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/602533456857137153/712796980727776282/unknown.png
cloud geode
Theseus: oh? You're approaching me, fiend?
north garden
Zag: I can't whoop your As without getting closer.
XD
also is it me or does Hades get ... nicer the more you defeat him and get sent back to the house?
atomic forge
Very subtly, but yes.
north garden
it's probably passive-aggressive or sarcastic but he starts giving voicelines like "He did it!" "Look who's here!" "Welcome home, boy."
atomic forge
"He's done it, Cerberus!"
foggy cobalt
Yeah, I think he does.
Sarcastic, but he does have to acknowledge that you got some good hits in.
north garden
Hades being secretly proud of his son im--
"Are you winning son?"
"Obviously. You were there."
secretly proud "Bah."
with that knowledge/hc in mind it certainly reframes their interactions
welp
back to destroying my dad i guess
half quest
Do the heat levels go up one at a time? Like a bounty every heat level?
dire hatch
I finally beat my dad!
drifting citrus
@half quest there's nothing stopping you from doing higher heat, but you can only earn bounties one heat at a time
half quest
What I wanted to do was plan out for hell mode, how high I'd need to go in order to unlock certain aspects. E.g heat 3 on all weapons fully unlocks any one aspect (exception being arthur) without having to kill hades
My current gripe with the aspect system is how unlocking weapons you end up not liking slows you down until beat hades once
Since the heat system is the easiest source if blood
Ideally you could reroll like the mirror
lyric urchin
You can’t gain higher bounties till the lower one is complete
Also on hell mode you start out on 5 heat
half quest
I'd forgot about that
lyric urchin
So you have to kill Hades regardless
You also can’t exactly farm on lower heat levels
half quest
What do you mean farm? You mean the hell mode locking lower heat levels?
half quest
I guess i should just always keep at least 15 keyes for when the shopkeeper trades keyes for blood
lyric urchin
True I suppose
half quest
Yea, or keep one weapon you dislike at heat 5
lyric urchin
Still, kind of feels bad that you have to lose a run to farm
half quest
Agree
drifting citrus
dying is part of the roguelike experience, so it doesn’t bother me
if you go into a run knowing you’re gonna die for the sake of resource collecting
half quest
Tbh beating dad diesn't give you anything
lyric urchin
Titan Blood
lyric urchin
With Hell mode it's always the first time
cerulean hamlet
dad gives a pretty substantial amount of darkness if you're farming that though
obviously, not on hell mode
lyric urchin
Yup
half quest
Which is where darkness is almost rarer xD
lyric urchin
Starting out is a bit hard
But you get used to it
Then you get stuck
And then I guess you farm
cerulean hamlet
which is unfortunate because if you're doing a darkness run, out of only the bosses, hades is like...40% of darkness gains i think
lyric urchin
Hell Mode used to boost darkness gain
cerulean hamlet
i think he's base 300?
lyric urchin
Damn even with a 20% boost that's a lot
Never mind if you got a chaos boon or something
cerulean hamlet
i've definitely picked up over 1k on him with chaos boons and stuff
lyric urchin
That's like two to 3 troves
cerulean hamlet
not even optimal
half quest
Sounds like hell mode is more of a hassle than it's worth (which i guess is the intention)
cerulean hamlet
i'm sure some people have managed some crazy darkness runs
lyric urchin
I guess if we got a darkness drop from Hades I wouldn't complain along with the Titan blood
half quest
That is the only change i'd want right now. For all bosses btw. It feels weird doing darkness runs and getting to a new boss which causes you to get less darkness...?
lyric urchin
We still gain the normal amount of darkness on higher heat levels
cerulean hamlet
i mean, it's technically not different
if you're not getting past a certain boss, you're not getting darkness from that boss regardless of mode
half quest
Like getting blood and 30 darkness isn't too much is it?
lyric urchin
I do wish higher heat levels increase the darkness amount you get
They used to before
half quest
Was that before the the mirror got the green talents?
lyric urchin
No idea but I know they used to have it in place
atomic forge
Super Star, sometime in October, I think.
warm ocean
dire hatch
I hate those dumb skulls and pillers from the second phase
And the "IMMA FIRIN MY LASER" bit too
mystic mortar
Anybody else hear sheep when they walk into Zag's chambers?
This is really getting weird.
upbeat sequoia
its the shades outside being judged by hades
shy nimbus
I love those laser bits thou. Give me time to breathe/window to hit him.
Anybody else hear sheep when they walk into Zag's chambers?
@mystic mortar yeah, it sound like a Minecraft's creeper sound
Totally creeped me out when I play on headphone
mint girder
I don't mind the lasers too much, it's when the unfortunate combo of skulls ticking to 0 in a field of the green urns(?) and he decides to laser that really sucks
at that point you're just picking which flavor dirt to eat
tame cloud
Generally speaking I think thats kind of the point
The skulls and urns are both interactable for that reason
cerulean hamlet
i always take a minute to run through the urns as soon as they spawn so they go away for that reason specifically
need to make my safe space
mint girder
I think if you clear a bunch he is just more likely to summon more.
cerulean hamlet
that's fine
amber vessel
the summoning is a damage window, but it sometimes feel risky to take it, he likes to summon some urns awkwardly close sometimes
like the summons in phase 1, feels that it depends a lot on rng
cedar mason
Are the urns totally random or do they have a set of pre-defined possible positions?
If they're random, then it kinda seems as risky to attack as it does to stand anywhere else since they could spawn anywhere
amber vessel
i think they have pre-defined positions or they wouldn't have that grid-like perfect positioning
but there are a couple variables at least
cedar mason
yeah, i figure they at least have to be x units of distance apart and x units from a wall or obstacle
haughty carbon
yeah they are somewhat random but they are preset in position I think variances of them
or there is one per each room, just that it's harder to spot
azure geode
What the administration privilege dose and is it worth the 3 diamond?
halcyon cloud
It opens the door to the left of achilles in the west hall, it's worth it but not immediately
You have to have administration privileges to enable certain events to trigger
halcyon cloud
NPC favors
At least two that I can think of require you have the administration chamber open
azure geode
This is how i can give olympecs more nectar right ?
halcyon cloud
The olympians you just need to accept their boons enough times
Favors are something for the NPCs in the underworld for the most part
Nyx, Megaera, Sisyphus, Orpheus, etc
split kelp
I just got Excalibur, that is one fairly enjoyable weapon.
4.6k crits speak for themselves.
Artemis attack + mirror + deadalus backstab damage...
glacial zodiac
lmao i keep struggling to get guan yu
i escaped several times with the spear, unlocked and maxed all of the aspects of it
but still, achilles remains silent
nova spoke
keep trying. took me like 6 runs with aspect of zagreus sword until Nyx finally gave me the password for the sword
glacial zodiac
i got a dialogue about past owners a few weeks ago, but nothing happened since
split kelp
It's just a little bit weird, I had Zag aspect maxed out but never used it in a run, and I still got Excal.
nova spoke
idk, I read somewhere that I have to talk to Nyx with Zag aspect equipped so that's why I did it like this
glacial zodiac
isn't guan yu a requirement to have excalibur?
glacial zodiac
oh my
split kelp
I got Guan Yu first, have the aspect available but not unlocked with Titan Blood.
small saddle
No thats right, you need guan yu first before excalibur
hollow mortar
Check pins 
Specifically, the 3rd one where Greg shares how to unlock Aspect of Arthur 
fickle comet
The third from the bottom? 
https://i.imgur.com/48iWOl8.png
Wall-Scrolls are the key. I knew it!
Oh, that's the 4th from the bottom. I have failed. 
hollow mortar
That’s actually the 5th from the bottom 😅
open berry
?? i feel like I'm in a fever dream bc I actually cannot understand this, fifth from the bottom? bottom of the list? bottom of the entire post? the fifth thing listed is poms right? what's even going on here. ive gotten 2 hours of sleep and reality is fake, actually
glacial zodiac
i got a sequence w/ meg in the bedroom
never thought giving her ambrosia will lead to such things
open berry
WAIT THE 5TH FROM THE BOTTOM OF THE PINS I see now life's mystery has been solved I'm going back to sleep
fickle comet
I see you also can't beat 32 heat. 
split kelp
I just missed a Chaos fishing spot...
Heard the ping the exact second I pressed the "exit room" button.
That kinda hurts.
thorny surge
oof
split kelp
Eh, in the future I'll wait for a second before rushing the exit.
gentle copper
missing chaos fish is always painful 😔 the next time you see one would be like 100 more runs in lmao
cloud geode
i still need to find chaos is there a prerequisite?
And what about the fishing rod?
split kelp
The fishing rod you'll be able to buy from the house contractor at some point IIRC.
cedar mason
Yeah you definitely need the fishing rod
split kelp
But yes, you'll need that to fish.
cloud geode
oh alright it's rng thank you
bold niche
i'm starting to believe there is only one time you can catch a fish at Chaos' room
autumn void
i'd say it's pretty likely that the june update will include a buff to chaos fishing spawn rates
open berry
considering the constant complaints and how the community overwhelmingly thinks chaos points need to be buffed, reworked, dealt with somehow, for sure they will address it
autumn void
mhm
smoky condor
dose any one know how to go through the plot about Demeter's missing daughter?
I just keep playing the game and gets nothing new
trying to find new dialogue but don't know how
plz help
jaunty vapor
i just beat hades for the first time and i’m wondering what the best first diamond upgrade i should get is
it’s between keys give 1 refill or darkness gives 5max hp
reroll
cerulean hamlet
i think rerolls are better
simple lily
quick question, is there a use in maxing relation with Eurydice ?
i'm in her room and wonder if i should give her another nectar bottle
i want to solve her and Orpheus issue
clear oracle
you get rejected
simple lily
lmao
don't spoil me anyway, just, i'd like to know if at this point ingame there's a use in drowning her in nectar
open berry
you have to raise both of them to their locked level to do the quest, so if you haven't finished that yet, keep giving them nectar. But finishing their quest is all, neither eurydice or orpheus give you anything for maxing them fully and giving you the bond forged banner
simple lily
ok, so no comps. But it finishes their quest, that's the thing
open berry
I don't think anyone is going to give you anything for max bond once everyone else's expanded affection levels are added
simple lily
ok, if that's a requirement, ill give her more nectar, that's what i was wondering, the wiki is incomplete and i'm sort of stuck with Orpheus despite maxing my relation with him
clear oracle
Ok don't worry, I'm just memeing with the rejection part. It's literally one dialogue that is not that important imo.
simple lily
ok lol
open berry
I'm not sure if anyone has been editing the wiki lately. I would bc I used to love wiki work but it also burned me out hardcore 👁️__👁️ I'll look at it later and see if I feel up to contributing
hollow mortar
@open berry someone was updating it recently 
open berry
oo nice
yeah like i said i havent really been checking but i may poke around at some point
currently doing little personal projects like spreadsheeting boon dialogue for easier reference for myself 😂
clear oracle
Hey guys,
I just got into this game. Loving the story line so far. It appears that the game inspired the Greeks to make up a whole new religion based on the game characters. I thought that this is really cool and just wanted to share!
hollow mortar
Such dedication and interest! Have you written down all the || Ares & Nyx || dialogues?
It’s one of my favorite “storylines”, if you may call it that
open berry
hollow mortar
You are awesome 
open berry
i wont get into it bc it involves things not to be discussed 🤧 but the dialogue and character relationships are one of the things i enjoy the most about the game, and most of the dialogue can't be repeated unless you start a new file, and many streamers and yt let's players don't really focus on characterization either. which is fair, i don't begrudge any of them focusing on gameplay. i refer back to dialogue a lot, my steam screenshot folder is currently sitting at 2250 lmao and its a mess to go through, so esp for characters i really enjoy, i like to put together their content in a way i can easily go through for reference
open berry
i do still think that little side plot with ares is. hm. comes on a little strong, out of nowhere. he only refers to her one previous instance, inquiring about zag's parentage. i do like that hes interested in the underworld gods in general, but im also sad that his commentary about thanatos got dropped and this nyx thing was added in.
foggy cobalt
Perhaps Ares caught a glimpse of Nyx talking to Athena and he's now full of thirst.
I mean, let's be real, Nyx is a snack and a half
open berry
spoilers this but my personal biases aside ||war and night sharing common ground? since.. when exactly? where does this come from? ares inquiring about thanatos was logical, death is just something of a given that happens with war, so establishing them early on as almost co-workers of sorts made sense. war happens, death comes to collect souls, whatever. the dialogue with nyx is just so. iunno. like i said, comes on strong for seemingly no reason. he is really insistent all of a sudden about getting in contact with nyx and that they share common ground and i really question that.||
foggy cobalt
||This is why my thought is, it's just simple thirst.||
open berry
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/357344472880644118/705886408803352596/IMG_20200329_130809.jpg
its a funny joke but i do hope that further content will... shed some light on this because as it is now, it comes off really awkward to me
foggy cobalt
Ha!
amber vessel
Didn't know Ares was so interested on Nyx
probably because i don't give him any drinks, he just talks about normal things while picking up blessings
cedar mason
Maybe that's your problem. You don't give him anything to drink so now he's thirsty AF
amber vessel
i will keep going
open berry
you have to finish nyx and chaos quest first iirc
amber vessel
i'm lowkey hoping to come upon a well dressed ares with flowers at the door of tartarus, asking for nyx someday
"Look, i was just walking around tartarus in my way to visit some soldiers that just died (that's why i bring flowers), and i thought to myself that i should pay my good nephew, his dad and his mom a visit"
halcyon cloud
well
if it helps
In Greek myth Nyx was seen as so powerful and beautiful that even Zeus feared her
She also mothers a number of other children as well that Ares would be interested in perhaps
In addition to thanatos and hypnos there's also Moros (doom and destiny), Keres (destruction and death), Oizys (Pain and Distress), Nemesis (Indignation and Retribution) and Eris (Strife)
There are other children as well but these ones are more within Ares' interest perhaps
And it doesn't seem like they exist in Hades
supple dagger
that we know of 😉
I can, at best, see Keres being destruction.
Than already Death Incarnate.
halcyon cloud
There's a lot of blending in greek myth
But those are all the "violence and war" related children I could think of right now
polar crown
How do favors even work?
I've gifted some of the chars 'till I've got that locked heart icon show up, but they aren't asking for their favor so I don't really know if I'm meant to somehow do it on my own one way or another or if they'll eventually speak about it (and if so if it's random or only after a certain of time/dialogue?)
halcyon cloud
Unfortunately, favors are random
However, they all have certain things that must be completed for the event to appear
That aren't immediately apparent
For example, in order to complete Sisyphus' favor you need the help of someone who knows the inner workings of the underworld
As in
You need to be on good terms with Nyx as well to complete Sisyphus' favor
polar crown
One more to feed nectar, gotcha
I'm turning into a candyman
Is it me or excalibur is noticably slower?
upbeat tundra
More damage for lower speed
polar crown
Is there any point at all in gifting Hades?
And what about Charon? Really, what chars should I prioritize giving nectar to (aside from the ones that can give companions, I've already maxed them but their favors haven't yet appeared)
silk carbon
i'd give nectar first to hypnos then the gods, but soon enough you'll be swimming in nectar to give everyone all the time
Is there any point at all in gifting Hades?
just dialogue atm
polar crown
Sorry, I should have specified beyond 1 nectar
I've already got all trinkets
Or is there really a point to gifting all gods beyond 1?
silk carbon
just dialogue
but some npcs (not olympian gods) can give you companions if you give them enough nectar and ambrosia, later on
polar crown
I know, that's what I'm trying to achieve.
silk carbon
then no, only dialogue
gloomy plover
|| My Zag is together with Megaera now 🥳 ||
hollow mortar
Someone rejoices, it seems 😏
supple dagger
okay, but that time, I wasn't saying a bad word? I was referring to the actual bird? bot is weird. Lol
anyways, I would be nice to have the feather to the bird from which Hera is sometimes referenced to be her symbol was added into the game somehow.
upbeat tundra
Achilles was talking about how Hades is the only person with a single lover. All the other gods have a harem
I thought that was interesting
north garden
well all the other gods are more open to poly relationships which wouldn't be considered harem; harem suggests that other than the god they're dating, the other partners cannot have others
mythologically a lot of the gods are promiscuous af COUGHZEUSCOUGH
gentle copper
The gods definately go around for sure
When you're immortal and live for a very long time having one partner is kind of dumb, you realize
final hollow
i would not hesitate to Artemis
dense sparrow
yes
gentle copper
Like Meg said its very much a mortal thing
Idk polyam relationships have been usually viewed negatively
I mean zeus like. Actively cheats which is... Not how it's meant to work
dense sparrow
hades is not faithful he just cant really leave his domain for too long and cannot get a lover, and hes not a necrophile
gentle copper
But like if all your partners know about it there shouldn't be anything wrong with it if it's consensual, ala than and Meg
Hades just kinda stuck there in the underworld vjdbsf
Idk maybe he just rly loved presophne that much who knows
dense sparrow
if he really did she whouldnt leave
clear oracle
There are many reasons why a person would leave
Hades for all we know can love Persephone very much
||to the point of kidnapping her like the myth does||
So naturally Persephone wants to leave
drifting citrus
if persephone left just of her own desires, there wouldn't be this whole weird thing with nyx saying "i cannot tell you why she left i am under oath or something"
there's something weird mixed up in the whole shebang
clear oracle
No I agree
I just want to point out that Persephone leaving is not mutually exclusive with Hades loving her.
drifting citrus
i agree, hades can be both a bad person and still love persephone
and persephone knew that she shouldn't have to stay just because he loved her
i just want to know why her note only mentions cerby and not her son
dense sparrow
or she is just terrible
gentle copper
Maybe they might include more in 1.0 but yeah persephone just ditching her son like that isn't a good look
drifting citrus
i'm all for persephone being a Bad Mom™️ storyline
gentle copper
Nyx is true good mom 😌
drifting citrus
but with these plainly weird hints, i feel like sgg's gonna justify it in some way
gentle copper
I feel like hades is sort of set up to be the sympathathic antagonist?
There's the overprotective parent vibe with him for sure
drifting citrus
sympathetic to an extent
there's also the abusive and terrible communicator vibe to him as well
dense sparrow
not abusive
drifting citrus
emotionally
gentle copper
Like he could be though, abusive doesn't just mean physically
Verbal and emotional abuse is still abuse
drifting citrus
i just feel like, why wouldn't nyx be straightforward about why she left
gentle copper
And zag apparently never seen his mama so like I wonder if he also mightve been the reason why she left
drifting citrus
she goes through the trouble of contacting the olympians and using the mirror
gentle copper
And that's why nyx doesn't wanna tell him
Imagine knowing your own mom leave because you were born
It'd kind of kill your motivation to find her no?
drifting citrus
but, if you were persephone, would you not even mention your son in your farewell note?
dense sparrow
like: i am lazy af to take care of my son and i will leave him with a known abusive and terrible communicator father
thats what it feels like to me
gentle copper
Maybe it was an unintentional thing
drifting citrus
maybe
gentle copper
Like she didn't expect to have a son and doesn't want zag
Which is big oofs
That's why she didn't mention zag in her Farewell note
Imagine if hades was the one that named him and presohpone doesn't even know his name
dense sparrow
presohpone?
drifting citrus
i think it'd make for a better story if they didn't try to justify persephone being a bad parent, but at this point i feel like there's gonna be some magic greek myth shenanigans involved
gentle copper
I can't spell shrew don't @ me like this fnfbg
But yeah since it seems like sgg is setting this up to be a good ending
Though we can never tell...
Maybe they do acknowledge both are bad parents but persephone is willing to try and be a good one once she meets zag
Maybe she hears about all the good things from the olynpian gods via rumors
dense sparrow
i didnt @ you val
drifting citrus
persephone leaving her son to live with his abusive dad and then not even bothering to stop her mom from killing all the mortals: 
dense sparrow
persephone: irresponsible daughter
gentle copper
Is that a pun or
drifting citrus
yes
dense sparrow
asdfghjk
drifting citrus
it's a very... seasoned pun
dense sparrow
well itss not very seasonable
drifting citrus
persephone left demeter because she hated her cooking, she never puts enough seasoning!
dense sparrow
its not like persephone was that good, the food was always springy
open berry
these hades and persephone motive discussions are always interesting but there are things i still 🤔 about, like a really early line from meg where she asks zag if his olympian relatives know the real reason hes trying to escape
gentle copper
All of them rly thinking zag wants to vibe with them smh
drifting citrus
the olympians think zag is coming up there to live with them bc his dad is too stuffy lol
i do not vibe with mr ares he's trying to court me mommy
dense sparrow
well its kinda a ... hellish life
open berry
Meg: Tell me something, Zag, because I'm curious. Do your Olympian relatives know the real reason you've been trying to escape?
Zag: I'll get around to that in due time. They're family. They'll understand no doubt.
Meg: You're in over your head, you idiot. You'll fray what bonds are left between Lord Hades and those ingrates on Olympus.
open berry
he cant
dense sparrow
communication is 1 wei
drifting citrus
bad communication is the only source of angst in writing
gentle copper
Like he didn't know demeter was persephone's mom yet when he escaped
Honestly that's so valid
Bad communication is the obly conflict you need
drifting citrus
it's a good thing he didn't, it would've caused an international incident
"so ur saying that not only is nyx not your mom, your dad is married to somebody else???"
open berry
this was something i brought up previously, zag is pretty much screwed in this situation no matter what. he cant tell the olympians whats going on, because he cant communicate with them, they can only communicate briefly with him. and he cant refuse their help, because that would just piss them off, and he cant explain himself there either. so he has to just carry on and hope for the best
gentle copper
Oof poor zag
drifting citrus
artemis you don't understand, i'm not the half-blood, mommy is
dense sparrow
he can't get to the charon's workplace and meet hermes? i thought he could get there
drifting citrus
i think hermes drops them off at the entrance
open berry
hermes only speaks with him through boons. the game's lore hasnt set up any other method of communication with them. charon and hermes interact on occasion but thats not touched on any further than that
gentle copper
Hmm faair, maybe that's why they set up charon to only go hgggffhhhabhh
dense sparrow
buut nyx is nigh omnipotent, he can just ask her to manifest in some patch of darkness and talk with the gods?
drifting citrus
i can't wait for all the new conversations with charon in the june update!
open berry
nyx also has her own agenda, if she wanted to be truthful about it, why hadnt she just done that from the very beginning and spare zag the effort of having to do it himself?
drifting citrus
now i can hear him go "hgddkffjkldaf" but with color and a cigar
and a cool hat!
drifting citrus
amazing how charon can still be a more engaging character than tisi and they have the same gimmick
anyways
gentle copper
What are the chances there's a rubber ducky he's holding on the other hand
drifting citrus
atleast 3
gentle copper
Me @sgg give me new charon I need to draw him rn
Paddling along the river of styx
With his rubber duckies
open berry
got a bit off track but the point of bringing up the meg dialogue is that both she and hades both hint towards dire consequences if zag's recklessness leads to the olympians finding out whats actually going on and im really itching to find out more about that
drifting citrus
zag do the thing
start the downward spiral of hades and the olympians
just doooo it
atomic forge
👏 GIVE 👏 ME 👏 TRUE 👏 FINAL 👏 BOSS 👏 DEMETER 👏
drifting citrus
YES
gentle copper
Honestly yeah I'm curious too like what the heck would the olympiad do
drifting citrus
i would pay big obol for this
open berry
dio, drunk in a corner, in tears: i just want my grapes to grow back, man
gentle copper
FBSJANF
Let dio vibe guys
How is he gonna make wine in winter
Where everything's dead
drifting citrus
nooo you can't just freeze the world over the mortals need to live and i need to grow my wine!!!!
haha cold go brrr
gentle copper
OOH YOU KNOW WHATD BE COOL
Demeter final boss is how we meet presephone
She interject halfway
dense sparrow
noooo, i dont wanna hurt a grandma
drifting citrus
every time u mispell her name i forget how to say it the greek way
pre-ser-phone
dense sparrow
proserpine
gentle copper
Maybe there's a good daughter mom momment and that's how they unfreeze things
dense sparrow
persephone
atomic forge
Prospero.
drifting citrus
prosthetic
gentle copper
But is grandma really evil tho
drifting citrus
yeah, anyways that would be an amazing moment between destabilizer and precipitation!!!
gentle copper
I hate you onyx
atomic forge
She seems more villainous than Hades does.
gentle copper
I mean, her reaction definately seems extreme
And she more seems like she's salty and outwardly malicious bcs she lost her daughter
drifting citrus
demeter is that bigoted overprotective grandma that doesn't understand why nobody likes her
atomic forge
(Effectively) Deadnaming Persephone, murdering all of mortal Greece for her daughter's death/disappearance.
atomic forge
Like, really, the whole "destroy the world over my pain" is classic villain territory.
dense sparrow
actually, demeter is justified, that is the best way to inconvenience hades: by giving him more paperwork, humans are like insignificant vermin to some of the gods anyways
drifting citrus
love her scariness from a writing perspective though
and the voice actress is perfection
gentle copper
GIVING HIM MORE PAPERWORK GJDVSHSBF
Damn this is all just a salty tirade to her
She doesn't see sending mortals to the underworld as a problem
dense sparrow
they are GODS, remember?
gentle copper
She just sees it as a potential inconvinence to hades
atomic forge
Demeter is extremely spiteful and extremely possessive of Persephone, and if she knew that Persephone left of her own volition (she's not back at Olympus at least) she would absolutely lash out.
To find out her daughter had a son with one of her hated adopted brothers?
drifting citrus
had kid with mortal
kid left
therefore, mortals bad
atomic forge
She currently thinks Persephone died because she was half-mortal.
drifting citrus
oh i didn't even think about that
your daughter has kid with your adopted brother, wyd
gentle copper
Demeter rly been in the dark for all these years
atomic forge
"Try to murder the child." "Demeter, no!" "Demeter yes!" [freezes all of Greece]
gentle copper
Imagine finding out that ur grandson is in the underworld 😔
What does ares think about it I wonder
There's no dialogue between them both I want some
drifting citrus
ares likes it bc people dying i think
gentle copper
Yeah, since demeter seems to be slowly murdering mortals through the cold
junior field
I doubt it
drifting citrus
that's the gist i got from his convo about her
junior field
it's hard to wage wars when you're freezing to death
and Ares, after all, is a god of war, not death
drifting citrus
no, it's because people are freezing to death that they're waging wars
fighting over resources
atomic forge
Possibly.
gentle copper
Yeah but ares also likes suffering
atomic forge
But didn't basically every Russian invasion stall because of the winter?
Ares likes violent suffering.
gentle copper
And demeter also currently has a hand in that
drifting citrus
i mean, he also has an untapped infinite source of violence currently rampaging through the underworld rn
atomic forge
Some dude coughing his lungs out because of pneumonia doesn't tickle his fancy.
junior field
you should look to Dionysus, that's what gonna happen to Ares
sniveling at Demeter's feet
gentle copper
Just let dio live demeter 😔
gentle copper
FANCAM DEMETER JGFNF
She's such a spoilsport
No wonder much of the gods aren't vibing with her
All their worshipers are dying because of the cold
amber vessel
the situation with demeter really leads to several reactions with the other gods/goddesses
even those that don't exist yet in the game
hope they expand on that
lunar kiln
we love grandma but she definitely killed an untold amount of people with her eternal winter thing
simple lily
my love is for Dionysus
dense sparrow
you mean the one who kill a lot of people each year by intoxicating people and drive them to strange actions that sometimes lead to manslaughter?
cloud geode
that's why people love him, he's a mess 0v0
thorny surge
i mean dionysus does drive a lot of people insane
but i'd say grandma's death toll is definately higher thanks to her etenral winter shenanigans
dense sparrow
fimbulvetr
thorny surge
especially seeing it's probably been going on for longer than zag's been alive
thorny surge
i mean
that depends on whether you consider kills by proxy or not
and/or people that killed with their blessings and/or help
gentle copper
athena had a lot of beef with mortals for some reason afsg
amber vessel
so the only gods that doesn't kill mortals are hades (cause he is in hell)
and zagreus both cause he is in hell and because he is a pretty nice guy by the look of it
dense sparrow
protogenoi dont kill humans on purpose
hestia kills no one
iris doesnt kill, so doesnt elytheia
amber vessel
yeah, but all those don't appear on hades yet
well, only chaos from those protogenoi does
cloud geode
They do kill something
their looks, baby
foggy cobalt
...Didn't Eris indirectly start the Trojan War?
dense sparrow
nyx is a protogenos, hestia is in hades, erebus and tartarus are also protogenoi @amber vessel
eternal breach
amber vessel
@dense sparrow weren't Kaos, Eros, Tartarus and Gea the protogenoi?
I might be misremembering, but i think they were the first generation right?
also, where is Hestia in hades? there is only her aspect as far as i know, but she herself hasn't appeared so we don't know much about her as a whole in Hades
does she appear anywhere that i'm now aware of? honest question
dense sparrow
no
and yes there are many generations of protogenoi
khaos is first gen
Eros, Gaea, Tartarus is sec gen
and Pontus, Ourae, Ouranos, Nyx, Aither, and many other are third gen
but i maybe wrong tho because the sec gen is probs first gen also
amber vessel
mmm, didn't know that anything but first-second gen were known as protogenoi
thorny surge
Wasn’t Nyx second gen?
amber vessel
i'm not too deep into greek myth so no surprise XD
dense sparrow
nyx sec gen
amber vessel
it depends
thorny surge
Like
I think she was one of the oldest children of chaorles
amber vessel
yeah
dense sparrow
wait wasnt nyx and aither children of chaos?
amber vessel
she is second gen if Kaos, Gaea, Tartarus and Eros were born together
dense sparrow
i have mistakes
dense sparrow
isnt sleep and death protogenoi
thorny surge
Chaos was first
dense sparrow
and aether was of chaos
thorny surge
Then erebus and nyx iirc
amber vessel
let me check wikipedia, i'm getting confused XD
thorny surge
Emphasis on iirc
amber vessel
Yep
Chaos > Nyx > Thanatos and Hypnos
Would be cool being able to contact with the rest of first gen
not only kaos
shy nimbus
Hey guys, just wanna confirm sth.
Is Exit Wound only available when you has Artemis Cast boon online?
Which also makes Fully Loaded exclusively available only for Artemis Cast?
flat shell
No, it just needs to be a cast that can lodge in enemies.
So anything besides Ares, Demeter, and Dionysus.
shy nimbus
That's odd. I can't seem to find Exit Wound without using Artemis Cast.
cloud geode
Death by rainbow
@eternal breach a whole new meaning to be gay do crime
silk carbon
If you don't have artemis cast, you need dual shot to make exit wounds appear
split kelp
After whiffing on a spot yesterday: got my first Chaos fish today!
simple lily
gg!
split kelp
Oh wow, that thing got me a Blood!
atomic forge
@open tiger so I beat hades my first try and got basicially no progression but after I lost to him more things advanced
open tiger
how it panned out for me, is that none of the NPCs talked about the Pact of Punishment until at least 3 or 4 runs into it, which felt really weird
atomic forge
for house of hades dialouges
yeeeah
I dont really know how to fix this it just feels dumb sometimes
open tiger
I don't think there is a fix for it? Tying story so tightly into a game that is meant to be played over and over again to progress the story
atomic forge
when zag's like "hey archilles how do I beat hades" well my guy you already beat him 🤨
yeah
open tiger
also, while I haven't unlocked all of the 4th aspects yet (don't tell me what they are xD) I absolutely love the Spear's
atomic forge
I only unlocked the spear one so far
open tiger
It's really cool, because that's a figure from Chinese mythology
atomic forge
I think all of the hidden aspects are figures from non greek mythology?
open tiger
that would be cool
atomic forge
as I heard people talk bout arthur
open tiger
oooh
I've started focusing on getting the gems so I can unlock more renovations, which seems to be important for unlocking some of the aspects
gentle copper
only two final aspects are available rn, arthur and guan yu
open tiger
ahh, okay
gentle copper
they seem to be of non-greek origins and focused on myth/historical figures
which is cool!
me @ my boy guan yu getting more love is always appreciated
open tiger
definitely
first run with it, I made it all the way to Hades before dying in the second phase
gentle copper
The hp hit is harsh though
If you don't know how to use guan yu properly
You'll die pretty fast
open tiger
yeah
I had the HP boost from the mirror maxed out, and I got an early Daedalus that boosted teh speed and charge speed of teh spin attack
also an aphrodite boon that boosted any max HP boosts, so centaur hearts were actually useful
gentle copper
OH yeah i forgot aphro is super helpful for balancing out the hp negation of gy
whenever i run guan yu i always forget hh
but the spicy damage on it though is nice
open tiger
I'm really enjoying this run with the Cosmic Egg
tame cloud
nice LOL
gentle copper
i had a darkness run and it crashed and i was so devastated
RIP
OH MY GOD
oof
imagine.... elysium arrows
open tiger
I'll havev the curses gone by then at least lol
these were the first two rooms of asphodel
gentle copper
mhmm i mean just dont touch the lava
or stay in it for too long you should be fine
open tiger
I have 4 dashes so should be okay
woah. Zag finally asked Asterius for that autograph for Hypnos
light zodiac
Does anyone remember what Hades says when you beat him? I gave a gift and he wouldn’t talk to me. The second time he pretended nothing happened
Afterward in the House, I mean
dense sparrow
he pretend nothing happened ofc
he doesnt wanna upend the House,a nd he didnt use his full power
thorny surge
you'll meet him back at the House so just try to get a nectar before you die
thorny surge
alternatively, get scammed by the wretched broker to get some
thorny surge
he can appear anywhere after your first meeting with him