@hollow charm movin up out of the fanworks channel but zags never even really had a FAN before! what do they want, an autograph???? nectar?????? a kiss on the cheek??????
#h1-story-discussion
hollow charm
I just like he sounds so amazed 1st time he realises he has a fan hehe
strong fiber
I just like he sounds so amazed 1st time he realises he has a fan hehe
@hollow charm when does that happen?
atomic forge
@lost jungle Hold on Bouldy as companion? It can happen?
lusty barn
I cant remember, but I remember finding him after a couple of times of beating TatB. THe first couple of times I was either... dead or too excited at not being dead at TatB to pay attention to the crowd other than it chanting ZAGREUS.
@atomic forge Yes, via Sisyphus
atomic forge
But..like how? 🤔
lusty barn
Do you know how the companions work in general?
I know this is spoilers but I feel like I enjoyed discovering this stuff
atomic forge
Yeah but I mean, Bouldy lmao
lusty barn
Its... best to discover how it works yourself lmao
unlock the comp, then use it. Its fun.
atomic forge
I know how it works, but it's a rock lmao
stark swallow
have you tried talking to it
lusty barn
Ah I see
atomic forge
It says nothing tho
lusty barn
you are questioning the mobility of an inanimate object
atomic forge
Lmao
lusty barn
let me remind you, we have NO idea where the top of Sisyphus' hill is...
strong fiber
I cant remember, but I remember finding him after a couple of times of beating TatB. THe first couple of times I was either... dead or too excited at not being dead at TatB to pay attention to the crowd other than it chanting ZAGREUS.
@lusty barn come again?
when does zagerus have a fan?
strong fiber
is it a single fan?
lusty barn
one red shade with a poster of zagreus
strong fiber
and he reacts to it?
lusty barn
yup
as you walk by, if you wait a bit until Zag finishes his beating T+A comments
otherwise they dont trigger.
I, like everyone, want this interaction to be better in future updates. I would LOVE to see the stadium slowly turn red the more you beat T+A, and it would provoke hilarious Theseus remarks
I don't remember if the red shade is there the first time you enter the stadium
like I said, I only remember seeing him after a few wins there
hollow charm
Late but ye theres a fan that appears after a few runs in A+T fight
atomic forge
How does he look like ?
atomic forge
I need to see that lol
atomic forge
You would mind sending me a picture in dm?
jovial cedar
Aw man, if the crowd slowly started to favour Zagreus more than Theseus and Asterius, that’d be awesome
I can already hear Theseus shouting at Zag for bewitching his loyal fans
lusty barn
I would LOVE that, one more shade after ever win, starting from the Supportive first!
coarse stone
(or Dusa)
nova turtle
I'd have so many shades at this point
atomic forge
If Zag had many fans Theseus would just rage and go away tbh
I feel like I have "messed up" completely because I am trying to get Thanatos as a companion but Meg just randomly appeared
atomic forge
But I only wanted Than :(
lusty barn
Then you are a bad greek god
atomic forge
cries in Orpheus' lament
steep mountain
I just realized
Bouldy is a pet rock
Sisyphus legit has a freaking pet rock
that's hilarious
old shadow
Is Bouldy Sisyphus's pet rock
or is Sisyphus Bouldy's pet king
steep mountain
stark musk
maybe...? He probably played with cerberus when he was young
And cerberus is a good boy😁😁 so he might also wanted his own pet
earnest spindle
Bouldy believes in you
deep spoke
Someone please edit in a Gurren Lagann meme
Believe in the Bouldy that believes in you!
lusty barn
Chariots, pssh, shield dudes... bane of my existence.
modern hearth
Hahahaha, F A C T S
lusty barn
Like... I KNOW how they operate. And yet, my feeble mind can't deal with it rationally, maybe because they slow my roll down so much its freezes me up
Only thing worse for me is the damn big rats
ant their bite
modern hearth
I just rush Art crit on Attack and nuke them first now
lusty barn
ive learned to cope with the satyrs, though I still hate their guts, but rat bites HURT and seem to be unstoppable lol.
modern hearth
What weapon do you usually use?
I typically have some form of knockback by Styx so I stunlock the giant rats
lusty barn
I use everything. I don't focus on any particular play style. I still hate those damn rats
Ever since learning that poison... isnt so terrible, ive noticed its the rats that mess me up the most. With the bite, that I cant seem to dash away from. Or when they spawn they bite before they are attackable lol
rats, and the traps in Styx when I have the trap damage heat on (cant remember name). Man I screw up so badly when thats on lol. When its not, I feel like I can dance around any trap, but turn that heat on, and I think I turn magnetically inclined to them
pseudo escarp
I just dash attack like a mad man until my enemies can't make a decision on how to approach you
Then i just left click and win
lusty barn
I get bitten through dash attacks all the damn time
ESPECIALLY on spear
thats like offering yourself up as a snack lol
pseudo escarp
Then invest in a lot of AOE abilities and nuking rooms of mobs
I cleared the game with spear 4 times in a row
first one was with demeter
lusty barn
Then I can't see when the next wave spawns and bite the sense out of me!
pseudo escarp
For me it's dash crazy and hope for the best the Ai can't react cause i aoe them down
lusty barn
Nope, its always Olaf Voice: CHOMP... Altered_Soul is DEAD
pseudo escarp
enough aoe damage and you can make zags checks clapping the most strongest aoe ever
atomic forge
Attacking in the middle of a dash removes the rest of the dash's i-frames.
pseudo escarp
yep
I got one detalous upgrade that let's me auto 3 times when i dash, that's how i won my first run
plus demeter, and dionysus
felt good to do dot and excute threshold when I stack boons on top of already broken boons
speaking of broken
primal atlas
argh if have a chaos gate available should i take that instead of a guaranteed boon? are chaos gate exits randomized or are they related to what's already available?
sharp axle
chaos gate exists are randomized
if you have a guaranteed boon due to a keepsake, and you don't pick up that god's boon, then the keepsake will try again
round linden
Hello
burnt harbor
Hi
primal cipher
In a total hypothetical for post launch content, do you think you guys should prefer more bosses or a meg/than mode where you could play as them?
atomic forge
More bosses.
primal cipher
Being able to fight other gods or titan remnants would be pretty rad
pure plaza
I wouldn't mind getting the Whip and Scythe as weapons though with abilities from Meg and Than
old shadow
More bosses
proven quartz
skelly mode or riot
atomic forge
it's just the last scene from Bastion for four biomes
haughty carbon
But this time he is just sending everyone to Hades.
tulip vault
just defeated hades for the second time ever
haughty carbon
Congrats!
hollow mortar
Wok ❤️
lost jungle
Gz
meager moss
So i just spoke to Achilles and he said "go to your room" but nothings new/happened? Was it just random dialogue or did i miss something?
restive elk
Could be one of his "I've-got-nothing-to-say-now" lines.
If there was no "!" above that is...
radiant marten
more weapons, more bosses, more enemies... it will be FUN
more gods for new brand of powers at every run
but i notice i cannot meet Zeus in some runs
it's that normal, dudes?
i meet artemis, athena, baccus, hermes, ares and aphrodite
but zeus is out of sight
restive elk
RNGenie seems to dislike him, I guess. If you get his keepsake you can force god to appear. But some gods having an absence streak are nothing new.
marble prawn
Was anyone else hyped af when Zagreus finally learns how to play the lyre lmao
I was mashing the interact button practicing as usual and that first instance where he successfully plays it
desert robin
Trying to unlock shady, but I'm having no luck. I've gotten to the point where I need to talk to hades and meg about the sentence. I got the dialogue with hades but not meg. It's been around 15 runs. Is this normal?
restive elk
Have you beaten Meg herself during those runs?
desert robin
Pretty sure I have. Does that trigger the conversation?
restive elk
I mean beating her ensures that she will be at the house, actually I'm pretty sure She directs you to talk with Hades, maybe because it got skipped something broke?
marble prawn
@primal atlas i didn't count the exact number of times unfortunately but i can tell you that there are 3 distinct "stages" of progression
- the notes are completely out of tune
- he's able to play scales/strum a few notes
- he plays more complex melodies etc
you'll trigger some dialogue with orpheus as you continue playing the lyre
in short, just keep spamming it between runs
i don't know if you can just get it all done in one shot though 
lunar ibex
I recall seeing the number 210 thrown around as the number of times total
fiery flower
vaguely 200
primal atlas
jeez ok
Any clues for the new weapon next week? I don't follow things too closely on here
lusty barn
Its definitely a flamethrower and anyone who tells you otherwise is a knave and a liar
fiery flower
What if I give you food and some money every time you meet me?
It could be a weaponized pillow
blessed by Hypnos
main attack has 100% chance to stun enemies for 0.5s
special is Zag throwing the pillow, and whatever it hits gets knocked into next week
warm ocean
Hypnos aspect: enemies hit with the pillow have a 10% chance to sleep for the whole encounter. Can be upgraded to 40%
lusty barn
Hey, as long as theres an aspect that sets baddies on fire, I'm on board
Aspect of Pillow On a Hot Summers Night
fiery flower
@lusty barn how do you set incorporeal shades on fire?
lusty barn
With fire
warm ocean
Or what if there was a Daedalus upgrade that turns exagryph to a flame thrower?
/ an aspect that does that
fiery flower
Doom Guy's beserker rage
lusty barn
@fiery flower does it set baddies on fire?
fiery flower
I mean if Zag kicks something flammable it might catch fire
dude literally leaves burning footprints
warm ocean
I'd actually love to see zagreus do a GTA5 full swing punch
lusty barn
then I'm in
lusty barn
Apestaethios?
fiery flower
Sounds like an exotic nut
lusty barn
lol
warm ocean
Dionysus' poison damage drain but it's lava and spreads naturally
But wouldn't it be useless in Asphodel?
Lmao it would
lusty barn
There is no "fire never works" if it doesn't add more fire
everything burns eventually
warm ocean
Literally fight fire with fire huh
lusty barn
I mean, the baddies arent lava
If they give me us a flamethrower, I would love if they threw in a maniacal laugh ala Theseus for Zag on a long tear of burninating.
fiery flower
granted, but Asterius gets flamethrower upgrade too.
lusty barn
As long as zag does, they can give every wretch one too for all I care
the more the merrier
warm ocean
There's a "hysterical laugh meter" and it replaces the would-be cooldown meter. If you let zagreus get too caught up in flamethrower-ing he burns himself
lusty barn
YES!
warm ocean
Toss in a cheeky narrator and hypnos comment
fiery flower
Hypnos shall be busy soon
when you die you see hypnos sleeping on a stack of checklists for the shades you killed
warm ocean
the fire-stepping prince erupts in flames as he approaches peak sadistic insanity
what a fool
fiery flower
with Zag making a snarky comment like "I wonder if those are flammable"
fiery flower
narrator old man
warm ocean
Ah yes
lusty barn
"I I I want to see my mom, I could burn the building down"
warm ocean
What if they just break the 4th wall that hard
Mention the devs in-game and never pay heed to it
Like how Hades ignores the fact you whooped him when you return home
lusty barn
Well I mean, I think Zag doesnt want to discuss the fungus either
warm ocean
And it's only like, dusa who's going "who on Earth is Greg kasavin, a fallen hero?"
flat shell
He does actually acknowledge it after you beat 20 heat and kinda sorta does so before then
warm ocean
Jesus I'm getting too deep in my own head with these dumb ideas
flat shell
but not overtly because he's salty
warm ocean
I'm still on 1 heat runs
Feel like I should be performing better considering my play time but I'm not too hardcore into performing crazy good so
fiery flower
dumb ideas
mods. you have ideas for mods.
warm ocean
Fun, laid-back, slaughterings is all I'm here for
Ahaaaa mods
Nyess indeed
Can we talk about just how much better euridyce's gifts are than the other NPCs? Like daaaaaamn
Upgrade 4 boons just like that
(thank you to whever made that emote, it is amazing)
nova turtle
I think eurydice not only has the most interesting options they’re typically the most impactful
She also has the added benefit of not giving you unique items so they feel more special
warm ocean
Not giving you unique items?
As opposed to Sisyphus and patroclus who do?
But they don't?
Feel like I'm missing something there
spiral saddle
id rather have eurydice than the other two
warm ocean
Mhmm
spiral saddle
and what quantifies unique @nova turtle
warm ocean
Every run I pray to the RNG lords for a eurydice room
She can turn a poor looking run right around
spiral saddle
and if anything the fact that she makes food i think is just cool
she takes time to give zag a nice meal
spiral saddle
i think he is just done with everything
flat shell
He's depressed let him... exist? live is the wrong word there
spiral saddle
then sisyphus is a cool dude even though he has murdered many, tricked persephone, and put than in a box
warm ocean
Broh wot
spiral saddle
yea
warm ocean
In-game or from OG mythology?
flat shell
A few centuries in tartarus probably chilled him out a LOT, really.
spiral saddle
actual mythology
warm ocean
Aah
flat shell
He admits he outsmarted Thanatos and Meg says that he did things in life that make him worthy of his sentence.
spiral saddle
but shouldnt he have to deal with tisiphone because he murdered
flat shell
So we can at least assume PART of it happened.
spiral saddle
in actual mythology i think meg is mostly envy and stuff like that
and im not sure about alecto
spiral saddle
no
lusty barn
and or chained him to a tree
warm ocean
Jesus woof my brain just stopped there lmao
flat shell
Tisiphone is usually charged with doling out eternal punishment to.. well, murderers.
warm ocean
Dunno how that connection came to be in my head
lusty barn
yeah Sisyphus was a seriously bad dude
spiral saddle
tisiphone punishes those who murder and so she is a bit insane, and because sisyphus killed a bunch of people i wonder why he is being punished by meg
lusty barn
And all the furies punish him because he accomplished all their targets
spiral saddle
sisyphus put our good boi than in a box
flat shell
Maybe it's a rotating sort of deal and her turn hasn't come around yet.
Bcause Alecto sure has.
spiral saddle
makes sense
lusty barn
he mentions meg being "not the worst" or something similar
he has earned the whip of all of htem
them*
spiral saddle
i want to see tantalus and see how that would go
warm ocean
Damn
spiral saddle
because you know, tantalus
lusty barn
He gets Meg because of oathbreaking and cheating death
warm ocean
I thought all there was to Sisyphus was "he outsmarted Hades"
lusty barn
He gets Tisiphone because, well, lots of murder
warm ocean
But wow
lusty barn
and he gets Alecto because he was cruel, wrathful, and vindictive
lusty barn
THAT was for tricking Hades/Thanatos
spiral saddle
i mean, he tricked persephone more than hades
because he was like "oh no i didnt get a burial"
odd void
from what I understand he didn't do too much murder
odd void
although it varies across different stories
spiral saddle
he killed his guests
flat shell
It's a variance on the myth, yeah. Sometimes he murdered his houseguests, sometiems he didn't.
Depends on which Sisyphus tale is being told.
lusty barn
Yeah the guest murder kinda gets him all three right off the bat
also, he tricks hades and thanatos separately than the proper burial trick
odd void
thought it was just than that got tricked the first time
lusty barn
Thanatos shows up, like, welp dude, your time is up. You must accept the chains of death
odd void
no hades involved iirc, at least for death #1
lusty barn
Sisyphus is like, wow, cool chains, show me how that works!
Than: sure thing boss, check it out
radiant marten
thanathos is really someone XD
lusty barn
Sisyphus: yup they work, no breaking them right?
odd void
edgelord
lusty barn
Than: Right!
Sisyphus: Right, imma gonna go then, peace out
Than: Wait! Noooo
Nobody dies for years
odd void
yeah pretty great tbh
lusty barn
Hades gets boring, and since nobody dies for any reason, no wars are fought
Ares gets PISSSSSSSED
forces Sisyphus to release Thanatos
odd void
i mean that probably makes up for the murder xd
lusty barn
The furies punish Sisyphus for his moral crimes as dictated by their nature
flat shell
Eh, I mean, that also means people who are sick or gravely injured literally can not die.
less fun sounding than you'd think
lusty barn
Hades punishes Sisyphus to the task of pushing the boulder because his fruitless attempt to avoid death
Yeah no its not that pleasant really. And Sisyphus didnt GAF
nova turtle
@spiral saddle when I said unique items I meant you cannot get items that do the same thing as eurydice’s
Sisyphus you can get health, darkness, or coin in other ways
Patroclus you can get the health per exiting area, death defiance replenish, or cyclops jerky in other ways (but they are weaker)
flat shell
Also there's a second part where once he gets caught and sent down there, his back up plan of having his wife desecrate his corpse/leave it out unburied gets him back there under the pretense of haunting her so she does it right. and then he DIDN'T.
lusty barn
oops, Sisyphus continued being a bad person during all that, which has its own unsettling reality
flat shell
So Hades just sits there and goes "aight. you're gonna die eventually. you have to sleep sometimes" and plays the long game so it was all futile in the end regardless.
death is inevitable, you can't outlast it forever, etc. etc.
lusty barn
Yup, which is why he has to push the rock
odd void
yeah he tricks hades again
lusty barn
never ending futile task, like trying to avoid death.
Greek moral stories are very interesting in general.
Origin stories... just get REALLY weird
at least by our standards today
odd void
well i wouldnt say that avoiding death for a decade or two was futile
lusty barn
in the face of eternity, it most definitely is
odd void
if he was a murderer then he probably wouldn't have gotten much better treatment right?
the whole pushing a boulder up a mountain thing never seemed too much worse than all of the stuff that goes down in hell
lusty barn
I mean, there are levels of punishment, and he is top ranked
flat shell
at least he isn't prometheus?
flat shell
rip to that guy
odd void
atlas is probably worse as well
lusty barn
He has to do that, which is awful, AND get the top level hell punishment stuff
yeah they are on a different level. Sisyphus is a mortal who gets punished. Pro and Atlas are immortals who in different ways pissed off other immortals. And they don't play around
I mean, there is a REASON for olympians to be afraid of each other, its why Hera is always being (usually) sneaky around Zeus, because there can be dire consequences to openly breaking the conventions of Olympus. And we have Pro and Atlas as perfect examples.
But it goes in every direction. Its a really messed up dynamic haha
odd void
really wish they showed the callous nature of the gods more often in hades. we really only get it in the dual rooms and against theseus
lusty barn
I have a funny feeling the true ending will explore that a bit more
odd void
like a few "know your place" dialogue options would be good
lusty barn
I think thats actually well covered
odd void
really? never saw it too much. most of your contact with the upper gods is thru boon dialogue
lusty barn
Zag is reminded of that all the time by the cthonic gods (for the most part), but the olympians are contantly taunting him with "freedom"
Its sport to them
odd void
yeah i suppose, but they don't really hint at it too well. It's a pretty natural consequence of the fact that they don't just port you out
but the gods act like very nice people a lot of the time. id like it if they held grudges or something.
or asked favors like denying other gods
flat shell
They also admit their powers are pretty limited down in Hades, too, which does explain that part.
odd void
or badmouthing them
because that's quite common in the myths at least
they tend to fight a LOT, and i don't feel like that gets portrayed well other than in duel challenges.
flat shell
And the badmouthing happens constantly, it's pretty great. The closest to holding grudges or reminding you of your place is Demeter. Aphrodite, too, sometimes, but Demeter (pardon the joke) actually gives me chills with how cold she can be.
odd void
oh yeah demeter doesn't mess around
i wouldn't say constantly though
it's very apparent with demeter, but admittedly I haven't played too much since the update so I only have a few runs worth of dialogue from her
flat shell
It's also probably more fresh in my mind since it happens really early in your save file (when a god finds you first and the first interaction with gods afterwards), and I'm overall a pretty new player.
flat shell
Yeah, I only started in January, so the story stuff is still partially unfolding at a brisk pace, as opposed to people who have been playing for a while and got them in chunks.
odd void
yeah I think the trends they're trying to push are a lot weaker in the early access format
probably better if someone grabs the game straight up
by the way, how do you feel about the progression scheme? It felt kind of awful to me, like I was just grinding
especially how they gate additional dashes off
flat shell
I personally didn't have an issue with it? Though I agree that the second dash being mirror locked STINKS for no darkness runs.
odd void
yeah a lot of boss attacks just become a nightmare for single dash
flat shell
Everything else felt pretty reasonable.
it was more ii felt like a slug trying to get through rooms. mashing dash Fun
odd void
the only other thing that i feel is really major is cthonic vitality
it's like 30 hp a floor
which is a Big Deal
flat shell
I also didn't mind that much?
but i'm. also a bad person who unironically has my response to most attacks be "don't get hit"
So my opinion is invalid
But yeah, there's a LOT of sniping between the gods in the early stages of the file, and Demeter hates like. everyone aside from maybe Ares and SOMETIMES Zag.
And Ares is just because she's mad at mortals in general.
flat shell
She didn't go back to Olympus, like her note said she wouldn't.
She didn't WANT to go back to all of them.
odd void
ah gotcha
late schooner
What did Meg take from Zagreus' room?
flat shell
Probably just some clothes, some left over books. Y'know, small stuff you forget when making an angry exit from an exes' room or during a move.
fast idol
I feel like nyx would have a word or ten with her about that lol
fiery flower
Child, while it bothers me that you took my gift to Zagreus, I am intrigued that you are able to carry it out of his room by yourself
ebon rose
I still have yet to have the option to give Meg some Ambrosia. Is there something special that triggers it? I haven't had any meaningful dialogue with her in forever
flat shell
A cutscene after a certain number of victories against her (Extreme Measures backup included) can activate when going back to your room after a run.
It'll mention the pressure being somewhat off of her, afterwards you;ll be able to give her a bottle.
ebon rose
Huh. I've been doing that, yet I can't seem to make that happen, unfortunately.
flat shell
It's also luck based, sorry to say.
ebon rose
Yeah true. It's also an issue of me triggering multiple max heart quests at the same time, resulting in a few different conversation chains being tied up by either Meg or Hades.
lusty barn
@sharp axle IDK about what the devs said but doesnt Demeter at some point mention that Hera and Hestia arent on Olympus?
sharp axle
I’m not sure. I’m also not sure if that would prevent her from being one of the boon givers. I’m not even sure if the silhouette has to be a boon giver. It could represent whoever the next weapon is based off of, or it could even be a character already in the game if the update includes an expanded storyline for them
lusty barn
Oh the silhouette is most likely Nyx
ebon rose
I'm thinking it might be the third one. None of the weapons have had people directly associated with them (in the sense that we've gotten new artwork for them)... though it potentially could be a super fancy art piece with Zag holding the new weapon. Which I doubt. I mostly think it'll be Nyx, though that's partially because I just want Nyx to get some love. She basically has had nothing new to say after my first few runs :/
lusty barn
A lot of the evidence points to Nyx
from the ravens wings, to the pre-teaser teaser picture that shows the shoulder pads as purple and gold (which would be Nyx)
The fact that she just had generic model and art
and that the update is bringing an overhaul/update to the Darkness system, which was provided by Nyx of course
ebon rose
Hmmm, true. Though when I first played, I thought Nyx was generic looking on purpose, to just emphasize how muted and in the background she is. But hey, if she gets a redesign, I'm up for that.
Good point on the Darkness system too
lusty barn
I didnt start til January (right before the long winter update), but I believe almost all characters had that look with different colors to differentiate. Like Sisyphus was a green model, with the "shade" art in green tones.
Nyx and Charon have essentially the same model/art pallate swapped and they added a little face for nyx
at least one of them is getting an update
I think Charon fits lmao
Charon fits as is I mean
ebon rose
Charon is kind of cool though, because he's just silent and groans
lusty barn
Yeah I agree
ebon rose
Ah yes, then I agree
On a side note, I wonder what will happen to the fun messages we get after defeating Hades, when the post-Hades content is released
lusty barn
Honestly, the only mystery to me is what the hell is that headdress/hair on the silhouette of Nyx haha?
Part of me hopes theres a story based means of keeping them in (maybe after unlocking the full true end or whatever), part me wants it to remain an in-joke to early access
but really, some of them are too funny NOT to bring over to 1.0
ebon rose
Oh yeah, that's the part that has me thrown for a loop. But it might be part of the Main Menu art. Which, by the way, I hope we can switch to earlier menu art in the future
lusty barn
I thikn the 1.0 update is gonna change the main menu entirely. The previous SG entries are way more elaborate
ebon rose
Yeah, they're really funny lines, so I hope they at least have a collection or something. Maybe some expansion to the hall that lets players access content considered obsolete.
lusty barn
previous SG entries of games' menus to be clear
Bastion is forever ingrained in my head, the music, the menu dropping down, the kid sitting there.
ebon rose
Hmmm true.
lusty barn
I guess my point isnt that the current menu is BAD, its just not SG good, it lacks flare. Its designed to get you into the game as soon as possible and continue being guinea pigs active early access participants
ebon rose
One thing I just came across that keeps adding to a thought I've had about Hades is how he specifically says he has no intention of punishing Zagreus. Zagreus mentions how he could easily do what has been done to Prometheus, which Hades calls barbaric, stating that he wants to rehabilitate Zagreus, not punish him. Which means Hades doesn't believe Zagreus is doing anything wrong by trying to escape: He simply has other reasons for not wanting him to leave.
And, as I complete more tasks and speak to Hades more, he seems more and more impressed. He'll sometimes say "See you back home" without being aggressive, or he'll comment on how things Zagreus has been doing have solved problems Hades was unable to solve himself.
I would say the menu is bad. But it is updated often to add some spice to the updates.
lusty barn
Yeah, I have a funny feeling "There Is No Escape" is not enforced by Hades
sharp axle
People in this game have Epic Hair. Like Demeter’s insane braid, or Hades’ crazy beard. It would be normal for Nyx to have some crazy hair too.
lusty barn
I think a LOT of people are gonna be left upset by the real ending
bittersweet at best
ebon rose
Yeah I think either it's not enforced by Hades, or there's a reason he doesn't want Zagreus to leave that is too dangerous to actually speak of
flat shell
Definitely not enforced by Hades. He implies during some combat dialogue that he's tried to leave in the past and was thwarted by something.
fiery flower
The murderous narrator, obviously.
heady smelt
Could someone explain the heart of stone boon and does it increase with every nectar you give and if I free sisyphus (I heard this kills bouldy) can I never get it again?
fluid dust
don't quote me on this, but it's a nectar sink basically, you give nectar and receive one out of five or six random buffs
there's a wiki entry gamepedia
heady smelt
Thanks Riddles but that still doesn't tell me if I spend 10 diamonds on sisyphus does bouldy die?
slender matrix
No
bouldy is a giant boulder
rest easy knowing it has never lived
so it cannot die
ebon rose
So, at some points the game lets me talk to Than after his competition. Sometimes it doesn't.
What decides that?
lunar kiln
if you go through all of his post-fight dialogue he'll just leave without saying a word
you might unlock more if you do certain actions though
hollow garden
we'll he'll say something, it just wont be in a dialogue box
mighty tinsel
If you want more Than dialogue try dying when he appears, he'll make some remarks! @hollow garden
hollow garden
he will, but i dont like dying 
its the reason i havent gotten the minotaur autograph interaction yet. I don't wanna die to him lol
mighty tinsel
Imagine dying to the minotaur and not Theseus
hollow garden
imagine dying to either of them
hollow mortar
Wait, there’s an autograph? What?
vague sparrow
ashen summit
Hey, is anyone here almost done with the House Decor? For the West Hall and Lounge, specifically?
If you're, could you please share a screenshot here?
I have made some bad choices, and I would like to not waste gemstones anymore, so I would like a general idea of what looks good where.
hoary compass
Hi, guys! Can you advise if any special condition should be met to start Meg's Favor? I've already finished one for Skelly (not yet fed with Ambrosia though), I got full stack of nectar presented to her, had conversation about each of her sisters. Yet, after meeting her in lounge, I'm always having some remark about me defeating her or Hades.
Am I missing something?
sharp axle
It's super RNG. You have to just keep talking to her, until you are blessed with good RNG
hoary compass
Oh my... well, she's definitely worth it. Liked her way before i read about romance option in Wiki 🙂
Wow! Just now I entered their room - and all 3 are there. Is that the one I need?
Oh, nope. I just realized I've turned on the Extreme measures.
valid helm
i've heard beating meg with extreme measures is needed to trigger her event but i've also heard it isn't
might give you good luck regardless
flat shell
It is not but it counts for the overall victory count so it helps
valid helm
well either way don't worry about missing it when it does happen, because you won't
mighty tinsel
@ashen summit aight so basically the lounge has by far some of the most expensive individual items but the hall has an overall higher cost
I haven't completely done it but SOME items are unlocked only after you buy others
As well as some items sharing slots so you might not want to buy all of those
ashen summit
I don't really care how much it costs. I have been doing runs solely to collect gemstones and finish quests lately, so I have got around 500 stockpiled.
I just don't want to spend them unnecessarily on stuff I won't like looking at.
Like that ball which apparently Cerberus doesn't play with.
mighty tinsel
Trust me 500 isnt near to enough
rare furnace
You could always buy some upgrades, see how they look and reload if you don't like the look (provided you don't change rooms and autosave)
ocean fulcrum
Uuuugh, nothing hurts my soul more than when Thanatos poofs away after I give him ambrosia while he still has dialogue for me, and now I can't access the dialogue he was gonna say to me and he only shows up in the House once in a blue moon ;-;
hoary compass
So, I found one interesting mention in wiki - it said that Meg should previously go into Zag's bedroom to take something out of it.
I guess I should RNG THAT first... Hm, maybe just grind over to furies and then die?
Does attempt statistic affects anything?
quartz forge
it took me maybe 10 rounds of furies before I got Meg to show up in my room?
But i think it's random for everyone
it felt like to took forever tbh
hollow garden
Wait, there’s an autograph? What?
Hypnos asks Zag for an autograph from the Minotaur. It requires repeated deaths to him and talking to Hypnos.
hollow charm
the autograph thing is great, esp as theseus gets sulky when zag doesn't want one off him lol
ebon rose
He seems so genuinely excited about the idea when it happens, too. Like a "Oh, you actually like me? Maybe you aren't so bad after all!" kind of thing, before getting hurt feelings when the misunderstanding was cleared
hollow mortar
I see.... guess I will be suiciding a lot to Asterius sometime in the future 
deep spoke
Heads up: If it doesn't work, suicide to Theseus.
flat shell
Truly the hardest and most grueling task of them all
spiral pond
summer schooner
I just had Zag call The bone hydra Lernie as a joke and the boss health bar now say Lernie the bone hydra 😂 holy crap I love this game y’all
hard river
Hey does anyone fully understand the lyrics in Song of Zagreus? Like "Up from out of the ashes
Born of the Titans
The mortals did stand
To live the model of the gods
At once divine and further flawed
In twain
The blood of immortals
Of Zagreus ending
It flows in their veins"
Is Orpheus talking about the birth of the mortals? but that seems awkward. what does "to live the model of the gods" mean? Whom does the "their (veins)" refer to?
glad lion
I believe one of the myths goes where Zagreus was killed and eaten by the titans, the gods destroyed the titans for it and from the ashes mortals were born because of Zagreus, with his heart surviving all that and becoming Dionysus.
haughty carbon
Yeah, it's basically a song about myths about Zagreus, that in the game's lore are indeed just myths and not real, since Zag made it all up to Orpheus, to joke around with him.
glad lion
Waiting for the double bluff where its actually true, at least that Zag and Dio are related and he gave birth to the mortals, hopefully not zeus being his real father LOL
haughty carbon
I think the interaction intends to be more comedic than not and use of all thr myths Supergiant games got to know while doing the research.
glad lion
oh totally, but It would be funny if it was a misdirect/ zag didn't even realize it was true LOL
hard river
I believe one of the myths goes where Zagreus was killed and eaten by the titans, the gods destroyed the titans for it and from the ashes mortals were born because of Zagreus, with his heart surviving all that and becoming Dionysus.
@glad lion Wow so that is to say we the mortals have Zagreus in us because the titans ate his flesh?
old shadow
I think SG's version of Zagreus is also the God of Blood
hard river
yeah I agree
frank gale
Hey so I have yet to obtain a couple of the Companions, as the dialogue events are not occuring .(eg I have exhausted all of Sisyphus, Megaera and Hades unique dialogue, and they wont mention his sentence anymore)
is there a glitch where they dialoue events just wont occur? my save has been the same from the very start of early access
atomic forge
You buy his sentence from the House Contractor, located opposite Hades's desk from Cerberus?
frank gale
yeah it's not appearing there at all, im guessing that some things might not be triggering as my save is so old
atomic forge
I've had the same save since April of last year and I've had all the events appear for me so far.
There are times when the game is just being hella stubborn in regards to spawning the next event in a storyline.
frank gale
hmm maybe it's that then.. tis a mystery
mighty tinsel
You think Zeus will ever acknowledge what he did to humans in the game? Not like a plot thing but rather as a joke voiceline
frank gale
it would be funny to have a character that calls out the gods on all the bad things they've done
maybe skelly
atomic forge
I'll admit my classical Greek mythology knowledge is rusty, but really?
pseudo escarp
That's cause most of the populist at the time either wanted him dead or they were some of his kids he knocked the mothers of.
Or they were the one to kill Zeus, who doesn't want Zeus to suffer?!?!
mighty tinsel
No you fools
@atomic forge @pseudo escarp humans were actually really powerful creatures, enough to take on the gods
However, Zeus used his thunder to split these creatures in two halves
Who would then be doomed to look for eachother for eternity
atomic forge
Okay, I have heard of the "separated halves searching for the other for all eternity" bit.
Like I said, rusty knowledge is rusty.
native marlin
You know, there's something about the next update that I never considered
We're getting a Darkness rework, and we've all assumed that the silhouette that SGG showed this tuesday is none other than Nyx
But I never thought how exactly they would make a relevant sidestory for her (since I assume they'll add with the new art, like they did with Sisyphus)
She was literally Zagreus' mother and his only supportive parent, but we never got to see that part of their life in detail & they never really talk too much about it, so the chance of getting a Nyx legendary keepsake is very likely
atomic forge
She is his foster/stepmother.
native marlin
he didn't know that until the beginning of the game, forgot to say that
but the point is that she raised him
the keepsake itself could be one of Zag's old plushies when he was a baby
it's... not that far fetched, I think
atomic forge
I'm gonna quote other people when I say that relationships that are already very healthy don't make for engaging storytelling.
Is Nyx being a good mother cathartic as all get-out? Yes, absolutely, but "And then Nyx gave all of her children a warm cup of milk and tucked them all in for the night," isn't super exciting.
Whereas battles to the very literal death between Zagreus and Hades is much more thrilling.
native marlin
it's still very likely and it worked for the rest of the keepsakes you get anyways so...
atomic forge
🤷
I don't disagree with that assessment, just trying to approach it from a storywriting perspective.
native marlin
what you guys think? likely or unlikely?
atomic forge
Also, three of the five Summons we have now involve navigating a romantic or pseudoromantic relationship, none of which are less than complicated.
I kinda think the last Summon is gonna be Hades.
I'm all for more Nyx fluff, she's been maaaybe the only character besides Dusa, Achilles, and Skelly who has been completely unambiguously supportive in Zagreus's venture so far.
Even Athena will at least make an attempt on your life if you spurn her in a Trial.
Any idea what her summon would even be?
hollow mortar
Nyx’? I don’t know :S
I like to think that the last Legendary Keepsake will be ||Persephone’s||
atomic forge
That is the other option I think is mostly likely.
native marlin
I mean the obvious answer would be shrouded/invisible for awhile but considering there's the Athena call I don't think that'd be it
signal palm
there's a chance it'll be like stealth damage up if it is nyx and invisible/shrouded stuff
but i agree; the calls sort of make that irrelevant
atomic forge
I don't know, I think that would be okay.
You've got 8 different Calls from which to choose.
native marlin
Id be good if it comes with something else like penguin said
something like a big hit when you break the stealth
atomic forge
SGG: "We like Mass Effect's Tactical Cloak so much we decided to just import it."
signal palm
SGG: Let's re-use all the previous games' mechanics
hollow mortar
Probably a massive debuff on all enemies 😄
atomic forge
"Zagreus, why are you crouched over this box?" "Gotta deactivate the Reaper tech."
native marlin
imagine if it's essentially a Turn and you can plan your attack, once you use it the screen goes black and you kill everything
atomic forge
Nyx's LK unlocks a hidden 5th Aspect: Aspect of Red.
native marlin
her normal keepsake heals you when you pick up darkness so it could be an emergency healing/stealth thing too
signal palm
nyx's keepsake just makes the calamity happen :^)
there isn't a "live a lethal hit" mechanic yet, right?
maybe that
atomic forge
Anyone wanna move to the Bastion chat ||and talk about whether they left Zulf or not?||
native marlin
Death defiances :^)
native marlin
jk
signal palm
ah right the invincibility thing on big hits, but that's sorta different?
atomic forge
You're talking about living a hit for 99999 damage on 1 HP, right?
native marlin
she's the daughter of Chaos, so their ''Quest'' thing could be a reunion of some sorts too, so it isn't just mother-son having a good time kind of sidestory
atomic forge
Honestly, the upgrade that's coming to mind is one of the abilities from Kingdom Hearts 2 that lets you live any singular hit on 1 HP.
signal palm
I'm just thinking of transistor/bastion mechanics and trying to see if any of them fit 
atomic forge
I'm not sure there are any massive hits in KH2 like in Hades that will drop you from full to dead in a single blow, but it's there.
👏 GIVE 👏 US 👏 A 👏 HUM 👏 KEY 👏
hollow mortar
Nyx’s Legendary Keepsake: spawns a 2000 darkness 😂
signal palm
I'd love it if when playing the lyre (once proficient) there were a small chance for zag to sing an excerpt of one of Orpheus/Eurydice's songs
hollow mortar
It’s a joke
atomic forge
Only if there's a joke on how similar Zagreus and Orpheus sound when they sing.
signal palm
Both blessed by apollo
and then all the people asking for apollo at least get a mention of him :^)
atomic forge
I'm seeing the scene from Family Guy where Carter and the doctor meet and are riffing on each other's voice but with better writing.
lunar kiln
Thinking about that one remembrance which is just hades teaching kid zagreus to say the game's equivalent of the f-word
signal palm
The voice thing would be like when people were asking for Iron Man and Dr Strange to mention something Sherlock
hollow mortar
Blood and darkness!
atomic forge
God, I can't believe they dodged that joke across two movies. Ugh.
@hollow mortar Waiting for the day I say that instead of just normally cursing. I already get enough weird looks, I'm gonna get myself committed one of these days.
signal palm
I wish I could say "blood and darkness" in real life
it's just too... different to not get any weird looks
native marlin
unrelated but I feel like this game lacks cutscenes
technically there's a lot of conversations and all that, but I mean cool ones, like the one that reveals why Zagreus is trying to escape
it's not like there's currently no room for them
like when you get the Guan Yu aspect
instead of Achilles going like ''Hey Zag I just had this cool dream yesterday''
like, why can't Zagreus have that dream instead? I think it would make more sense
(the ''I see you through the eyes of the Crimson Phoenix'' thing)
hard river
because he never rests
How does our prince who always refuses to sleep have a cool dream like that?
native marlin
He does rest. Once.
Which is when we get that one cutscene.
hard river
That one was really excellent. So maybe we can't get more cutscenes like that just for some weapon unless the weapon has something to do with the story right?
native marlin
Unless he's planning to go barehanded yeah, it's kind of related to the story
It would also give a bit of backstory, why would he have that dream? Is the Spear powerful enough to do that by its own sentience? Or is this vision an aid of the Fates, who want Zagreus to finally escape?
instead of it just being Achilles' weird fever dream that for some reason he decided to tell Zagreus just now
fast idol
well imagine if you had a prophetic dream like once
would you just go about and tell everyone about it or see if it repeats and is an actual prophetic vision
gilded egret
I’ve been reading about how Asphodel in Greek Myth is like its equivalent of purgatory, but in Hades, it’s been turned into a fiery molten hellscape. Is there any dialogue about how this change in environment has affected its original purpose? Are the middling souls destined for eternal mindless boredom now on fire for all eternity, or has some other part of the underworld taken over purgatory duties?
flat shell
There's a mention that this absolutely isn't normal from the Narrator Voice, and that it's a result of the river Phlegathon spilling over and overtaking it. Beyond that, not a lot of dialogue on it that I can think of right now.
It's MEANT to just be a kinda boring meadow so like, something ain't right there
atomic forge
I think the Phlegethon floods Asphodel from time to time.
junior field
my take away was that it got flooded once and stayed that way
Asphodel is supposed to look like an economy class Elysium, but it looks like a hell hole
haughty carbon
Asphodel to me looked like a place where monsters and people who mostly lost their souls go
I mean most of the enemies there are skeletons, compared to Tartarus where at least some keep the shape in some sense.
junior field
you're seeing Asphodel's denizens after the place turned into a classic hell
Eurydice is down there as well, and she's a tree
a place most unfitting for someone like her
another thing to keep in mind, both Asterius and Patroclus ended up in Tartarus after death, the lowest level of Hades
that is the place reserved for those whose lives were considered worthless, or whose actions were especially heinous to the gods
pure plaza
With Eurydice, I thought it was because of the deal Orpheus had with Hades that he failed. So Orpheus is in the House and Eurydice went to Asphodel because of the contract
atomic forge
Eurydice had died, which is why Orpheus headed into Hades in the first place, to resurrect her.
junior field
he then failed, but he didn't die then and there
he ended up in Hades' employ after his own death, later
pure plaza
Ahhhhhh, got it
junior field
and Hades deliberately kept him on a short leash, so that he wouldn't end up with Eurydice
pure plaza
Also, she technically doesn't belong in Elysium since thats more for the warriors and heroes. And she definitely doesnt belong in Tartarus so I guess the only place left is Asphodel
junior field
incorrect
according to both Hades and Patroclus, all kinds of people end up in Elysium
peasants, kings, do gooders and monsters
pure plaza
Ahhhh, Guess we only see the warriors and such
junior field
no, they're judged by their actions in life
atomic forge
"Elysium isn't for the good, it's for the great. Great kings or killers."
junior field
fame and infamy both are paths to Elysium
pure plaza
I see! Guess Eurydice was more in the middle then?
pure plaza
Right, at least shes at peace with where she is, she's the one place I always try to visit no matter what the other rooms are
junior field
well, her bonuses are outstanding and always flexible when compared to Sisyphus or Patty
Sisyphus is just gold or healing, and Patty is most of the time just a DD refill
pure plaza
But Bouldy's boons are the best in the entire game! I believe in Bouldy! 
junior field
yeah, too bad ambiguity doesn't do nothing
pure plaza
Patty did save quite a few of my runs and if anything, the story of he and Achilles makes my heart ache so much
somber gull
I think their placement is good for game pacing tbh! Tartarus you don’t have enough boons for upgrade, and Elysium you’re too low on health to be worried about upgrading them
junior field
the placement is good, it's the RNG of getting those encounters that's really upsetting
plus, I wish Sisyphus offered healing + max HP increase instead of just healing, and darkness is rather worthless as an option
pure plaza
There was about 5 runs in a row where I didn't get ANY of them
junior field
and as always, these things become more noticeable as you pump up the heat
hoary path
In run today, i first passed Euridice for Trial, then Patroclis for shop (while i had all defiances).
first 2 great choices, then 2 bad choices 😭
pure plaza
I guess depending on your build, I'd take Patty even with all the DD for the 60% attack damage
Also, it's free! Who doesnt like Free Cyclopes Jerky???
junior field
that's kind of the issue tho
hoary path
how does that interact with Hera Bow exactly? 😄
junior field
if you have all DDs, good HP, and are not relying on your attack, Patty isn't that great
you're not picking the best option now, you're picking the least useless one, which would be HP regen
pure plaza
Well, 60% more bow damage is still very good since thats how you land the casts to nuke the enemy
Although, I probably would also do Charon in that case
junior field
I understand that the game is about negation a lot of the time, just wish all of these NPC encounters were as useful as Eurydice
hoary path
or as flat in powerlevel as Euridice
pure plaza
Patty's options feel bad since they are situational, but incredibly powerful
atomic forge
Was talking in a chat last night about Hades and they pointed out that HydraLite Gold is never a bad pick.
If nothing else, it will almost always put you into the Heroes fight with full health, if not DDs.
pure plaza
HydraLite Gold is very underestimated. I didnt realize that healing items like those can stack so it really lets me play aggressively and not need to worry about my health
I've come to love Charon's Bone Hourglass for that reason
junior field
I wouldn't say it's underestimated
it just doesn't have the same kind of value as refilling 3-5 DD slots
junior field
plus, you can't do anything with the HP overflow
pure plaza
Nevermind
junior field
Chaos and Skelly trinket
pure plaza
I've never used Skelly's does it actually give you a refillable DD????
junior field
it's hard to do that though, since Skelly's charge is always the last one to be used
pure plaza
Of course, but thats good to know
junior field
I suppose that could be valuable when you're just starting out and don't have much darkness to work with
having only 1 DD from the mirror
pure plaza
I got Skelly's trinket relatively late since I didn't know it was a free DD, I used Cerberus and Eurydice's a ton
pure plaza
Also, I was obsessed with learning more about the gods so I gave them all necter first
somber gull
Valid tbh
pure plaza
God Dating Sim, I want my Grape Man please!!!
Meg trinket looks so much fun to use, high risk high reward. My fragile heart cannot take that kind is excitement ahaha!
somber gull
Money bag is good!
pure plaza
The power of cold hard Obels!
junior field
Hrrrrrrm
pure plaza
It's strong, but I do wish it had a more on going effect like 20% more Obels
nova turtle
There’s quite a few trinkets I wish had more going on
pure plaza
The Olympic god trinkets in general... Used Dio's and only got a grand total of One (1) boon
junior field
Sisyphus is probably the best example of a bad trinket
600% damage from traps and wall smashing, wow
pure plaza
If it also gave 50% Damage reduction when you get hit by a trap, I'd snatch it up!
junior field
without the heat modifier, traps already do relatively low amount of damage
pure plaza
Or even, a guarantee to meet Sissy, Eury, or Patty would be nice on top of their trinkets
I lost a DD at full to the guillotine when I took the Trap Heat... I was so mad...
junior field
I don't think people would be taking Sisyphus' to get him
Eurydice and Patty though, guaranteed, on account of their keepsakes being universally good
verbal prawn
i think the god trinkets are fine. If you could keep getting boons from one god that kinda upsets the purpose of the game i feel. Like, I'd rather they rebalance the difficulty rather than change that aspect of the game
sisphyus's trinket has some use to it, but I understand that sentiment too; i imagine the reason it was trap damage and not trap damage reduction to yourself because there's a boon already for it.
maybe they'll add a level 4 to all the trinkets eventually 🤷♂️
valid helm
sisyphus' would still have some use in that situation for people trying to max him out
junior field
isn't that silly though?
Using his keepsake to max out the entry, and then never use it again
valid helm
well it'd still be better than never using it in the first place, which is how it is now
valid helm
true, but it's something that could be done if not all keepsakes are intended to be good
i think it's okay to have gimmicky ones
verbal prawn
you can try asking them next time they do a q & a
but i mean, i don't think it's actually that hard to remedy the trinket situation
it's just a bit basic right now; say for example, if they added an element of shields in the game (or just a stack of health) like with the cerberus trinket, but every trinket has its own additional health value where the trinkets with super useful effects having less health added and vice versa, that would already help solve this issue, right? It'd give weapons and upgrades like cursed edge and guan yu a bit more leeway, too.
that's just an example though. THe ttrinkets as is are just really simple, so I think it's okay to give them some leeway there hoping they'll do something it eventually
it is an early access game after all
junior field
that eventuality might never come to pass
especially as the game draws closer to release
verbal prawn
🤷♂️ then we just have to deal with it at that point, right? how do you know the release date anyways?
I don't think they mentioned anything about them being close to full release yet, right
verbal prawn
is that what they're doing though? i thought they only talked about the next update
junior field
the update coming in a few days is the weapon
verbal prawn
it sounds like you're saying they'll release the game fully in three or so months, if we go by their usual calender
junior field
I'd say 4 months with 2 more patches after the upcoming one
verbal prawn
that seems reasonable
no point in second guessing them though, if it turns out the game isn't as perfect as we want, well, that's just how it is, right?
junior field
they're reworking the meta currency system, but I don't think that'll be an update highlight
verbal prawn
make sure to give them the feedback about trinkets though
junior field
I did, as have others
elfin shadow
We have had at least 1 new portrait per update since launch. Right now we are missing Nyx and Charon, Nyx probably being on Tuesday's update. We also know that there is still 1 npc that has not been revealed (probably Persephone). So that leaves 2 portraits reveal after Nyx. So two updates after Tuesday's before release. That's my guess.
analog edge
god trinkets should let you reroll any god door into the trinket god 3 times
hollow charm
this game has really fired up my creative side bc my intended short drabble for zag has ended up becoming 7 pages and nowhere near done /stares into distance
ebon rose
I finally got a Than challenge, beat him, then after my run he wasn't there for me to talk to...
atomic forge
He has a good chance to appear, but it's never 100 percent... which sucks. Just gotta keep at it
in the house after you beat him, I mean. I cry when I don't get him after 6 escape attempts
ebon rose
Yeah, RNG is just not my friend. There are plenty of things in the game that are random, and it can make certain things a grind. Like, sometimes I can't tell what's random and what's a bug. I've been stuck on the Lyre quest for over a dozen runs now, and Meg hasn't progressed in her quest for dozens, except for one line that I got by freeing Sisyphus
hollow charm
sometimes if you go ito your room and go back out he'll be there, that's happened to me before
where he wasn't in his spot after appearing during a run, but when i went into room and went immediately back out, he was there so... idk
hollow garden
i think the god trinkets are fine. If you could keep getting boons from one god that kinda upsets the purpose of the game i feel. Like, I'd rather they rebalance the difficulty rather than change that aspect of the game
I agree with this statement. The god trinkets are imo used to majorly influence part of your run. They're most useful for forcing a god to show up early, in Tartarus or Asphodel. If you force them to show up early, they'll continue showing up in latter biomes. They aren't guarantees, but simply forcing a specific god to appear primes you for getting a specific boon you actually want (like a primary boon from zeus and poseidon, so you can get Sea Storm later on) and etc.
The extra rarity helps but its not why I use them.
Was talking in a chat last night about Hades and they pointed out that HydraLite Gold is never a bad pick.
If nothing else, it will almost always put you into the Heroes fight with full health, if not DDs.
SzyaelToday at 1:23 PM
HydraLite Gold is very underestimated. I didnt realize that healing items like those can stack so it really lets me play aggressively and not need to worry about my health
I've come to love Charon's Bone Hourglass for that reason
ZeppMan217Today at 1:23 PM
I wouldn't say it's underestimated
it just doesn't have the same kind of value as refilling 3-5 DD slots```
While filling your Death Defiances up is also never a bad choice, this assumes you actually need to. If you don't then there's no point in taking it. (And if you're consistently out of **5** death defiances mid way through Elysium, I do have to kind of wonder how you are winning those runs, if at all lol)
That being said, even if you're overflowing in health from Hydralite Gold, being at maximum health every time you enter a chamber in Elysium is certainly not a bad thing, especially if the Attack buff from Cyclops Jerky isn't going to help you out (either due to running a Special build, Cast build, etc).And honestly, going into the heroes fight with a near guarantee of full health is very good
because they hurt, especially if you turn on Extreme Measures
and its in your interest if you're trying to win the run to blow as few death defiances as possible before Styx and Hades
wicked pier
Hydralite gold heals 150%. Every lost DD heals (a bit more since you ignore damage offshoot when you die) 50%. I always take hydralite gold if I'm low on health (such that hydralite is utilized to full) and have only one DD gone. I imagine i'll take the hydralite more; as i have been taking a liking to lambent plume so playing reckless and fast might be required.
radiant marten
so we are close to the full release of this fantastic game... this is awesome
rugged grove
hey, so, a thing keeps me wondering: the wiki says pursuing any romance option does not lock out the other ones. So, I've had the Dusa plotline filled out (chambers meeting and all), but the progress for others kinda... stopped. With Than I have the full bar, but I can't seem to get the chambers meeting for him (and I've met him five or six times since hitting max relationship - every time he was in his usual spot after returning), and Meg is still at her locked heart. Did I mess something up, or is it just random being random?
junior field
I think you need to play with Extreme Measures 1 to progress Meg's, and Than is sorta random
bleak osprey
you don't need extreme measures to advance meg's stuff
crimson haven
god that ending is such a teaser
rugged grove
so I've heard from a friend who got it! But it seems like I met all the prerequisites for Than and I still didn't get it multiple times it could've happened
spark anvil
dusa is offering back all my ambrosia or i can tell her to keep it. is there any negative impact to it if i get them all back?
bleak osprey
there's no negative impact at all ^^
spark anvil
sweet! just got 11 back haha
rugged grove
I also got it back from her, she seemed like she felt really uncomfortable with it
lunar kiln
||she doesn't mind keeping them but taking your ambrosia back makes more sense given how she wants to prove her worth and all that||
spark anvil
@lunar kiln that is what i was just thinking too!
shy nimbus
I'm seriously not ready for the full release of this amazing game yet 😭
Is it selfish of me to wish Supergiant to continue developing this amazing interpretation of Greek myth, not to mention making an amazing game out of it?
Like, the end game is just finally introducing the mystery of Persephone's story in the full release... and that's it for the (main) game story? While the game has so much replay+expand potential that is already showing potently.
Which gods should I pray to to have a Journey to Olympic EP/DLC?
shy nimbus
I like to think that the last Legendary Keepsake will be ||Persephone’s||
Are we even sure that there could only be 6 LKs? I mean, the "secret stashes" could very well expand with the Underworld Renovations? 🤷♂️
hollow mortar
I was summoned~
stark musk
I wish there's more interactive option with Olympic gods... like romance and stuff...
Olympic DLC is a very good idea actually
shy nimbus
Aphrodite is already wanting to jump at you through the ... god boon, imagine what she would do if Zag is in front of her in the flesh
cunning drift
I want to imagine that her love for zag is more of a familial one. Mostly because I like the idea of her spoiling zag like a grandmother, but instead of cookies it's beautiful men and women
shy nimbus
Zag and Aphrodite both have something in common with their love life: Aphrodite's "husband" is so busy that she has to seek comfort from other people, while I just can't seem to get Than to have "private conversations" with, ugh!
cunning drift
This game has a nonbinary person, up to 3 gays (including zag), and cuckholdery
As a liberal, I love it
flat shell
Hey, Zag is at least bi
deep spoke
@cunning drift uh, "cuckoldry" what
shy nimbus
This is Ancient Greek! Everybody is with everybody!
cunning drift
Aphrodote's husband is cuck.
Also I think zag is more "whatever you want him to be"
deep spoke
liberal
uses "cuck" unironically
https://media.tenor.com/images/0680ba34f982e43c8a0446ea7fccfdad/tenor.gif
cunning drift
For my original joke I was using it ironically. But I wasn't trying to kinkshame.
thorn compass
Hephaestus, Hermes or Ares?
flat shell
Sometimes the red flags get raised really easily tbf
thorn compass
they do
flat shell
And Aphrodite specifically mentions Hesphaestus in game, so prroobably that one?
shy nimbus
Ugh I would just stay away from that word. The alt rights have ruined that word to me.
We actually haven't heard of his name in game yet. Like, his mention is via one single Aphrodite's dialogue.
flat shell
big mood. The only reason I was able to go "hey maybe it's not so bad" is because this server's pretty good in general. And yeah, you're right about that.
shy nimbus
And it's "my husband", not even a specific name.
flat shell
I went ahead and assumed out of habit, but you're right.
deep spoke
I was expecting bait, because politically loaded sounding things are often bait
Fair enough though lmao
burnt harbor
So just to be clear, Zag is 1/4 human. Right?
deep spoke
Uh... I think so?
burnt harbor
Only his maternal grandfather was human?
deep spoke
Yup
deep spoke
Hades is primordial, and it wss mentioned that in their specific version of the lore Persephone's father was mortal, so that's... generally correct, yes
Unless they curveball us again or retcon it
hoary path
nothing's final till 1.0 😏
hoary path
she is kinda pissed off nowadays
flat shell
And she mentions she got a lot colder after her husband died, but wasn't exactly super nice before then.
faint trench
it's implied that she was less.... like that, originally
hollow mortar
The tea in here lol 🍵
burnt harbor
The guy got her in her spring mood
deep spoke
LOL
flat shell
wow
hoary path
trombone noise
burnt harbor
I really hope we get more about Persephone in this update
Will this be SSG's first game with ||an unambiguous happy ending||?
Can't wait to find out
deep spoke
Doubt
shy nimbus
Demeter can be very... temperamental with certain season in the myths anyway thou
She's happy and lively when Persephone is on the surface, and can be completely disregarding in the opposite case. Like, she once committed eating a piece of human meat during Tantalus' feast.
burnt harbor
If I learned something about Greek mythology
primal atlas
getchu a lady who can do both
burnt harbor
It's that you part from the premise that the God is a prick and then you advance from there
shy nimbus
If there anything I learnt from Demeter's myth, it's "don't ever mess with the goddess of fertility!"
Sure, you piss off Eros and most your love interests would turn into trees/flowers/fountain etc or just simply jump over a cliff just to avoid you. Or you piss off Dionysus and suddenly your touch is golden.
But Demeter? yeah, her curse is like the most morbid thing you could ever hear of in mythology!
Disrespecting her once and you would end up selling your daughter away for a piece of food to fill your never-ending hunger, which ultimately also never goes away. Ugh, the ending of that story is a literal nightmare!
round linden
Hello
fathom charm
tiny sequoia
@moderators?
deep spoke
@vagrant nova I see green so I'm guessing you're around, please bean this spam above ^
runic terrace
whats up?
deep spoke
Oh, it got got
runic terrace
nice
deep spoke
Wait one sec
undone reef
I still think Hades is not bad. I don't know why people see him as abusive and terrible.
wicked pier
Its a mix; he does show some vulnerability. But you can see how he is a bad at fathering and is abusive in rememberances.
tiny sequoia
zag is an adult, he should be allowed to leave the house without his parents permission
undone reef
Let's say Hades is old school fathering 101
hard river
that's not very persuasive. Gods should take their responsibilities, (like Hades never leaves Underworld), and I think that's what Hades decides for Zag which is annoying though
tiny sequoia
hades denies zag his agency
hard river
That's typical of a strict father (maybe?) At least Achilles says in Codex that Hades really expects that his son would help him
tiny sequoia
zag is being held against his will
hard river
True
tiny sequoia
I'm not sympathetic to "strict" or "traditional" parenting, just because people have been doing it for a while doesnt make it not abusive
hard river
but Zag was doing Thanatos' job before he discovered something about mother
faint trench
was he? thanatos' job is going to the surface to collect dead people or whatevs yeah?
hard river
Zag once said something to Than like "I figured it was only a matter of time before Father sent you after me to do his dirty work." So maybe, part of Than's job now belonged to Zag?
tiny sequoia
i think you misunderstood that line
"his dirty work" refers to killing zag i think
maybe not
undone reef
@tiny sequoia It refers to STOPPING Zagreus since he is immortal
tiny sequoia
same diff
faint trench
if that's from the first time than shows up then i think zag was just assuming he showed up to stop him
undone reef
Zagreus which is quite full of himself. He likes reminding the audience that he is immortal and everything godly
Who knows what the writers have in the bag for further plot and lore development. I somehow think Hades is protecting Zagreus and doesn't want to let him go for various reasons: may it be for Zagreus to be his successor or just because he is a reminder of Persephone.
bold niche
I still think Hades is not bad. I don't know why people see him as abusive and terrible.
@undone reef It's complicated. Sometimes if someone was abused in childhood, it can result in being abusive when one grows up, since it was the only known way how to treat kids. Noone will ever consider themselves bad parents, but caring and protective ones instead. Life is full of sad examples.
hope we'll know for sure if Hades wants Zag to be safe in the House, or just wants him to be his loyal servant
from what we have now it's hard to tell
wicked pier
I feel like if persephone and hades is known; things are gonna go down in olympus; and hades is trying to stop the gods from warring with each other.
Or demeter will try and find persephone; who clearly hates her mother and does not want to be found.
Hence why Hades wants to keep Zag 'safe' from olympians; and underword. And his heritage as a secret.
That being said; Hades is king; so it's probably something of both sentiments.
bold niche
sure there was something going on between Hades and other olympians, and we can't tell who started the conflict
wicked pier
They probably tricked hades into becoming the king of underworld; and he did not realize that he can't leave the underworld now
And resents the olympians for that.
(After titanomachy)
Because it seems like Hades hates his job.
And he does say he tried to go out a couple times before.
bold niche
Hades has an impression of very tired, broken man, who has nothing left but his duties and loneliness. he is disappointed in others, and unable to actually care for someone. even if he tries now and there.
so he just ceased trying and closed himself from everyone, like a hedgehog.. he thinks that all the love and friendship will eventually end and turn against someone who cared
maybe.. when he tried to leave underworld, it doesn't really mean he could not do it..
wicked pier
I wanna hug hades now.
undone reef
@bold niche Hmmm, Hades is fond of Cerberus. And if Cerberus is always by Hades, there is maybe a sign that Hades is not that a terrible person. (Do really dogs feel of someone is bad?)
bold niche
but when he did he just find noone and nothing for him
old shadow
I think a lot of this might also revolve around the how and why Persephone left
wicked pier
Well; i mean i wanted to before cause have you SEEN my man? He is buff.
old shadow
She might have left entirely to appease demeter
wicked pier
But now i wanna hug for wholesome reasons
old shadow
Which would leave a sour taste in anyone's mouth
undone reef
@old shadow, exactly
wicked pier
Well; demeter does not know that she was with Hades at all; she thinks mortals took her away/killed her.
undone reef
Might be a hint to Kore, which is in some versions of the Hades myths, a side adventure and in others, another aspect of Persephone.
bold niche
@undone reef well, my golden is happy to see everyone.. me, my friends.. my angry neighbours, some odd strangers.. but Cerberus is a hound, so who knows
wicked pier
Demeter says that she named her Kore; but Persephone hates that name
Dogs pretty much love their owners.
Even their abusive owners.
undone reef
SGG seem to take a modern twist on the myth.
wicked pier
But Hades is very affectionate with cerberus.
undone reef
But I like the research put into fleshing the characters
bold niche
(un)fortunately relationships between parents and children need mutual understanding. Some parents lack it. They think, that their kids are unable to tell what is better or not.
wicked pier
I really don't think Hades is an abusive pos. A lot of his "abusive" stances are more for protection & ensuring his dynasty the god of the underwordl
bold niche
to some point it's true, but it can't work forever
well, ignoring others desires is kinda abusive
deep spoke
Not gonna lie, I think so far Volus has the best take
bold niche
if a parent just goes "do as I say because I said that", to the point when he just makes his kid obey with brute force
instead of explaining why it's better to do another way
doesn't sound much like caring
undone reef
@fair light I apologize for troubling you during those loaded times. But great job on Hades for the characters in a modern yet respectful way. Do I even make sense? Kudos
deep spoke
But there is one interesting factor to all the character interactions.
Zagreus especially doesn't seem to react to his situation the way "typical humans" are expected to.
No one does, but it's really obvious with Zagreus himself.
Part of that is that clearly immortals have a different concept of pain and suffering.
If you want to talk about abuse in the context of these guys who literally can't die - then you mainly have to focus on emotional, non-physical interactions.
Just because the human norms regarding physical violence seem to just be completely out the window - by modern standards even Achilles is way past the line, most likely, and Meg and Zag kind of beat the crap out of each other even when they're dating.
undone reef
I almost Hades is challenging Zagreus more than retaining him.
Zagreus seems more upset than abused by his father. It feels like a game (Meta...) for them.
The problem is the story serves the gameplay or is it the opposite?
bold niche
well.. it doesn't seem that Zag heard much kind words from his dad..
deep spoke
Yeah, the thing is, they really don't take it as seriously as mortals do
Even with "modernized values" you have to admit that in the end, the characters aren't mortal humans and don't exist in the same exact system of values.
bold niche
sounds like when he did something good, he gets nothing.. and when he did not do good, he gets just more stuff like "why are you so useless and uncapable"
undone reef
@bold niche True, but Hades has some hidden compliments for Zagreus somehow.
deep spoke
The most interesting line I've ever heard from Hades is one of his deaths
Paraphrased: "Remember, in this world, you have only me, and I have only you."
It's not the exact line. But close.
bold niche
i just hate when it comes to.. either there will be a forever lonely parent, or forever lonely child
well.. Zag is lucky to have friends and more than just friends
some parents don't even allow that much
fair light
Thank you @undone reef! Lots more where that came from in our Tuesday update -- hope you enjoy it.
bold niche
they got their misunderstanding to the point where there can be almost no reconciliation
undone reef
@fair light I love Hades...Seriously. Awesome quality! Keep the good work. I even bought the soundtrack on the go on Steam. Now, if you were to see me raging, screaming and cursing all of you in front of my laptop because a run is not going the way I want (I am not a very good player anyway)...
runic pond
wonder what the lore implications of the "aspect of guan yu" are... can't wait for tuesday's update!
undone reef
It is a coming of age story...
undone reef
Damn it, I also thought a music instrument could be the weapon. Thanks to Saint Seiya and Orpheus using his Lyra and his music as a weapon
wise dragon
@topaz cobalt what does Asterius say when you are on low hp?
primal cipher
Hey I'm an Australian, so I'm just double checking. The update is in two days yeah?
wise dragon
yeah
wise dragon
thorn compass
can't wait
wise dragon
This weekend I was like "I won't play until the update". I failed lmao
primal cipher
Haha yeah, the more I play the higher the heat when the next update rocks up
I'm about at least 10 on each weapon right now
topaz cobalt
@wise dragon, I've skipped the first line from him, but the last two were something like:
Zag: really? I'm not really in the shape for battle.
Asterius: Your weakness is no excuse to not fight me.
I think that you not only has to be low on health, but close to death, meaning that you must lose all your DD charges.
It's also cool hearing from him "You're broken" upon losing.
neat lagoon
I love the little quotes in this game, using Dionysus call on Hades makes him say "why are you getting wine all over my clothes!?"
fathom current
I moreso love how Zagreus's real life "connection(?)" to Dionysus is referenced in the game and played off as a prank on Orpheus.
shy nimbus
I feel like if persephone and hades is known; things are gonna go down in olympus; and hades is trying to stop the gods from warring with each other.
Well well well. This Greek family telenovela is just so scandalous that it just can't wait to happen 😈
Hades is not to be the one who stop anything. Because Demeter (and potentially her sisters) would want to tear down that Underworld's door and give Hades hell hehehe! Like, "You dare marrying my sole daughter Kore! Behind our backs! And even had a child without telling us! How bloody and darkness dare you!"
Like, if you think Demeter's long winter is bad now, then it would be a whole Long Night when she finds out about Hades' and Persephone's marriage.
I wonder if we are going to have a whole "hell freezing over" effects on the enviroments of the biomes when that happens 🤔🤔🤔
nova kite
Im certain its going to be the olympian gods trying to erase Zag as added injury to Hades
Considering the big thing that Zag was never in the typical greek pantheon around greece's golden age and was actually in the precursor pantheon that was considered ancient to them.
And in game they are very willing to kill him just like any mortal that got too big for their boots.
deep spoke
Theseus: "You are beneath the notice of the gods, monster! While I have earned their favor!"
Zag, decked out in half a dozen divine blessings: "Ok boomer"
lusty barn
i love it when you use a call against Theseus.
drifting citrus
so guan yu’s prophecy is taking up to the surface, meaning that it’s destined to leave the underworld into another’s hands
so does that mean that zag is also responsible for the idea of firearms
untold fjord
the God of Blood G U N S
fast idol
Persephone: Zag what do you have there?
Zag: a GUN
Persephone:.....sure
atomic forge
jovial cedar
If “Blood and Darkness” is a swear then I want to know how Persephone would react to baby Zag saying it
fast idol
Zag, young age of 60: Blood and Darkness!
Persephone: WHO TAUGHT HIM THAT?
Meg: 👀💦
haughty carbon
Dusa, not so far from them: 
humble aurora
flat shell
Starstruck would be a good word for it, imo.
jovial cedar
I thought she was ace?
flat shell
Yeah, you should probably keep playing, Khorne.
ebon rose
Even if you keep playing it, the question still has an odd answer.
Spends the whole questline bursting into hearts whenever she sees you. Hmm. I wonder what that means?!
Then the quest is like "Nope! Despite literally seeing hearts around her whenever she sees Zagreus, she's not interested". Then you have Meg and Than, who are both varying degrees of rude/mean/"I hate you" to Zag, and they're both romanceable.
stark swallow
she does say she loves him
mossy spear
anyway what r peoples' thoughts on the silhouette that's teased?
ebon rose
Ah yes, the Platonic Fluttering Shower of Hearts of Platonic Friendship
mossy spear
are we gonna get art for nyx finally?
nova kite
further path for Nyx Finally. I wonder if supergiant will be crazy enough to ||make nyx romancable||
indigo cipher
fathom current
Wait, who does the placeholder sprite belong to? Or does it not belong to anyone?
||halt||
mossy spear
don't think it belongs to anyone in particular
fathom current
Hm...
It's got some pretty good spritework and portrait art to be just a placeholder, unless that's the artist's level of "low effort"
tiny sequoia
Could be Charon
fathom current
I put my bets on Charon
burnt harbor
People: Nyx won't be romanceable.
Me: Laughs in Greek mythos
coarse stone
I think Nyx is too busy for actual romance
Someone has to make sure a bunch of primidorial mayhem sow-ers don't upend reality
burnt harbor
Fun fact: If you romance Nyx, Than and Meg at the same time it makes you Hypnos' step-Brother, brother-in-law, Half-brother-in-Law and Stepfather at once.
coarse stone
Not step brother, that would imply that Hades married Nyx
burnt harbor
I consider Nyx her step-mother, by irtue of actually acting like her mother
hollow charm
I've just had a cool unique dialogue from theseus when you enter the arena with a yarn of ariadne active, which is such a neat thing
fathom current
I now want Nyx to be a romance option just so Hypnos could make that observation