problem with daggers i'd see is that it'd be extreme sword, super fast and upclose melee
#h1-story-discussion
dense crown
atomic forge
Probably wouldn't have a Thanatos Aspect, though.
main hearth
"Mine does 9999 damage, Zag. Keep up. poof"
minor oyster
We have a Hades and Achilles aspect, who knows really @atomic forge
atomic forge
Yeah, but Than still has his scythe.
dense crown
hades has his own spear 
minor oyster
... That was what he said?
dense crown
yeah but we dont know if thanatos hass always used the same scythe
atomic forge
Still can't believe Aspect of Hades doesn't provide a bident.
minor oyster
Because that's what we're talking about Kossetsu?
main gulch
Oh that's what you meant
minor oyster
sharp axle
Yeahhhhh, I'm also not sure why the Hades spear isn't a bident
main gulch
sharp axle
besides the whole "I supposed the spear can't be in two places at once" thing
atomic forge
Don't get me wrong, it itself looks cool.
main gulch
The zag spear is a bident isn't it
restive elk
With all shortcomings of a Hades aspect, it provides the best thing in the game. The Ironic kills.
atomic forge
And Achilles Aspect.
main gulch
Tru
atomic forge
I dunked Hades with it earlier today.
Spawned into Serrated Edge, got Deadly Strike for my first boon.
At peak damage it was 1.2k dash attacks.
main gulch
They could just have new reasons for copying weapons I guess
Since I really want caduceus
main hearth
achilles aspect is interesting at least
the mark should last for 1 or 2 more hits imo
minor oyster
Achilles Aspect is wonky as hell but it sure as heck has a reward for using it
150% damage is 
restive elk
Wow, I really cant make serrated edge work. It's as if He knows and just spams spins.
minor oyster
hades always spams spins
sharp axle
I just hope that if this game has a scythe, it's like the Thanatos scythe, instead of the Assassin's Creed scythe, which sort of looks like a spear with a ever-so-slightly curved blade on the end
main gulch
I'm certain it will be a ranged weapon
restive elk
more than usual i mean
main gulch
Then it'll be three melee three ranged
rotund lagoon
Sythe would be dope
rotund lagoon
What would be the special though?
minor oyster
throwing it probably
rotund lagoon
Nah
minor oyster
considering how SG likes their ranged abilities
main gulch
I still anticipate a magic staff which has a charged magic projectile and a laser probably
rotund lagoon
That would be different
minor oyster
oh yeah bow
rotund lagoon
But actually charging up
minor oyster
shield hammer
main gulch
There's only bow
main hearth
overhead chop w/ special on scythe, attacks are large sweeps
minor oyster
guan yu
main gulch
But this would be aoe
minor oyster
all the charge hammers
main hearth
and with the attack you have to hit with the blade part to deal full damage
rotund lagoon
But now if you charge it all the way there is no benefit
main hearth
that could be a ton of fun
sharp axle
It could be like Jedah's scythe from darkstalkers. It was a melee weapon, but he could also awkwardly throw the blade as a spinning projectile
rotund lagoon
But bow*
minor oyster
Scythe would be way cooler and interesting than another ranged charged wep
main gulch
There's only one non hammer ranged charge
rotund lagoon
Charge it all the way = more damage
minor oyster
the bow literally does that
even if you miss the powershot you do more damage than at base
rotund lagoon
Bow does less dmaage if you charge it all the way
minor oyster
No it doesn't if you just let it go immediately
atomic forge
Less than if you land a Power Shot.
minor oyster
yeah but the powershot is an additional mechanic on TOP of a charge weapon
rotund lagoon
So the point of the bow is timing
Vs holding down the charge till max
vs
I mean , it's not a great difference
minor oyster
except like all those charge hammers for all those ranged abilities
rotund lagoon
But it could make a weapon feel different
minor oyster
and guan yu
main gulch
A charged attack similar to aphro cast then?
minor oyster
guan yu's is
and once again
its just doing more stuff they have already done
in spades honestly
dense crown
i want the nnnew weapon to be totally different from what we've seen before
minor oyster
yeah and another charge wep aint that I'd say
rotund lagoon
I like the idea of a whip
minor oyster
scythe with some weird mechanic
whip would be cool
BOMBS
just throw a goddamn stick of dynamite
dense crown
whip's my favorite tbh
main gulch
what makes scythe more unique than longer ranged sword
since i imagine it'll be sweeping attacks
minor oyster
whip that makes alecto freaky out when she sees it 
dense crown
longer range and slower attacks be my guess
main gulch
that's pretty much guan yu
atomic forge
Alecto starts bugging Meg about properly introducing Zagreus to her.
main gulch
so making guan yu but bad
main gulch
the weapons need ranged attacks lol
dense crown
guan yu is a power poke, i'd imagine a scythe would sweep though an area
main gulch
sword is garbage because it doesnt have one
minor oyster
not true, flurry spear is very good
atomic forge
Flurry Jab is awesome.
minor oyster
scythe would naturally have a longer reach than sword
that alone would make it better
atomic forge
If there were an Aspect that synergized with it would be the second best Hammer.
dense crown
is flurry jab a thing on GY becaussse that would look and be funny
main gulch
but spear is a ranged weapon
minor oyster
it is the second best hammer for spear outside of GY though @atomic forge
atomic forge
It is not.
atomic forge
Let's try again.
atomic forge
Gravel, Flurry Jab does not spawn with Guan Yu.
The spear, and every Aspect, is a hybrid weapon.
minor oyster
flurry jab is the second best hammer for spear outside of guan yu aspect
atomic forge
The only purely melee weapon is the sword, which is why it has a super powerful Cast-oriented Aspect.
main gulch
and the only good sword build is the ranged one
minor oyster
yeah
main gulch
Nemesis doesn't compare to the good builds
minor oyster
his sentiment is that its the best build on sword and more than comparable to the other good builds for other weapons
also his "good" is probably different from your "good"
atomic forge
"good"
minor oyster
lets not argue over nothing again
main gulch
okay i'll say nemesis is a good build
junior field
did you know that sword has 3 aspects?
main gulch
but psword is a top tier build
minor oyster
PFFT
I love zepp
coming in hot with the spice
zag aspect doesnt exist change my mind
main gulch
@junior field new aspect 
junior field
dense crown
zag isnt an aspect its a companion rib vending machine
atomic forge
Barring maybe the spear and definitely the bow, the Aspects of Zagreus are purely starter material.
atomic forge
RIP
minor oyster
zag shield is at least good for 32 heat
atomic forge
God, I miss it.
main gulch
i think any weapon/aspect can beat 32 heat
main gulch
you just need to turn off deadline for a lot of them lul
minor oyster
'basic' doesnt mean trash
also zag spear is GOOD with special speed
get tf away from my explosive launcher build you cretins
atomic forge
Swift Flourish and Explosive Launcher 👌
junior field
I suppose that is true, that you just need to turn off the timer
atomic forge
But I still want the attack boost back.
junior field
but then it comes down to ease of use
minor oyster
explosive launcher is 🙌
main gulch
gonna have a rough time of 32 heat with zag rail yeah
minor oyster
@atomic forge petition to change hades aspect to attack damage without needing to spin
so we finally have a normal attack based spear
guan yu took the spin role
main gulch
@minor oyster why not apply the debuff with special then have it affect attack and spin 
junior field
because ultimately, just like in Dead Cells, you could beat max heat without the timer and any boons whatsoever
junior field
if you have machine like reflexes
minor oyster
@main gulch put that in #hades-feedback please!
supple dagger
Was about to abandon the whole "learn to play a song" thing but then I played the lyre and it actually changed from a simple strum to a piece of an actual song.
and then I realized what Zag was trying to play. Lmao
hollow mortar
Seeing Zagreus getting turned down by Achiles was so cathartic 
dim sigil
hollow mortar
Congratz!
hollow garden
I’ve used Than on 32 heat, but I think I’m the only one, and most other people would prefer Meg
I use Than on high heat. Than has the disadvantage of being slow, but fortunately, Theseus stands still for a long time when transitioning, and Than's keepsake 1 shots him (or leaves him with like 500 health remaining)
Hydra also fortunately typically stands still, you can time that pretty well, though its harder on Extreme Measures
hollow mortar
I also use Than’s keepsake in those scenarios + in Styx’s sub-bosses. It’s a matter of knowing the timing and location to use it
sharp axle
Nice! I usually use Than when Theseus is transitioning too. I wish I knew what the teleporting EX miniboss (soul catcher or gorgon head) rules are, so I could Than them too. I can't tell if it's reliable to use Than right after they teleport, or if their teleport is just random, or if it's based on when you get near them, or if it's based upon them taking hits.
As in I probably should just do a very low heat run, and test it out, because I feel like EX soul catcher would be a very quick room if I could Than them
hollow mortar
I never saw them teleport around, unless I’m missing a punishment rule?
hollow garden
Soul Catcher does not teleport ever. Megagorgon gains a teleport ability when you enable Middle Management
Soul Catcher gains I believe a charge attack under Middle Management
atomic forge
Soul Catcher kinda-sorta-not-really teleports.
Unless I'm very mistaken and it deals damage during its movement.
main gulch
It dashes and deals damage yes
hollow mortar
Ah, I see. I will need to check it out
zealous copper
finally beat hades for the first time!
is there going to be an ending where we get more lore?
atomic forge
Right?
coarse stone
Yay, got the order to help Sisiphyus
zealous spindle
Hooray, now you can hear Hades say those 'Was that a boulder that just fell from the sky!?' and similar 😛
digital totem
I absolutely love how dry and backhanded Hades is with his quips
Also, I just discovered the upgraded Theseus fight today. Was not ready for that, laughing made it difficult to dodge.
zealous spindle
@digital totem Did you talk to Achilles back at home after the fight? It'll give you another laugh or two I am sure
digital totem
Of course. I talk to everyone after every run almost obsessively, even if there's no exclamation point
I did like that conversation
zealous spindle
Poor oblivious Theseus
digital totem
Silence fiend
flint sapphire
i still cant beat 32 heat
id have to use a super strong aspect, and i dont find those fun.
dawn ore
Guan Yu is your friend
heady rain
if you don't use tight deadline you can do it slowly with shield of chaos
what's the requirement's for than's romance after maxing affinity? do you need to meet him in a run for it to trigger?
jolly glen
i know theyre not popular but i love poseidons boons sm
warm pier
Shield of chaos is really high damage though no?
running artemis special
or dionysus special
or demeter special with her frost explosion
lunar ibex
Anyone know how the aspect of zeus on the shield (special sends out the spinning blade shield) works with swift flourish (30% faster special at epic). Does it make the damage interval shorter, make the shield move faster, or does it just get released faster?
dawn ore
It makes the shield move faster and hence return to you faster.
deep spoke
Is there a way to open the side doors in the left hall?
whole path
@deep spoke not yet
Am I the only one that would like to see Posidon's max call line be "Surf's Up Little Hades"
deep spoke
rofl
haughty carbon
I like Bone Hydra's second name
deep spoke
same, just got it
supple dagger
second name? o .o
haughty carbon
Yep! Zagreus has a new (or not so new) line to Bone Hydra.
supple dagger
does it only play with non-Extreme Heat Bone Hydra? Because he still doesn't say anything when I enter Extreme Heat Bone Hydra.
haughty carbon
the line is something along the lines
lament flame
@supple dagger Yes, you need to turn off EM
open berry
lernaean bone hydra becomes lernie the bone hydra
haughty carbon
"Bone Hydra! Can I call you Bone Hydra? I will call you something else. Lernaen! (or what was it I already forgot it 
) Lernaen sounds nice."
open berry
I hate it. Not in a legitimate dislike way, just in an exasperated 'I can't believe you've done this zagreus' way
deep spoke
Lernie
supple dagger
Zagreus punches you in the face. "uh, I can't believe you've done this"
Strangely, I feel like I might have heard that line. Maybe not. I'll probs turn off Heat. I mostly do it for the rewards anyway. And I still need to clear the autograph saga
deep spoke
Zag's jokes... guess he just hasn't Lern'd his lesson
open berry
his lines prior to renaming the hydra are things to the effect of 'bone hydra I feel like we're not understanding each other' or 'bone hydra how come we never talk?' Stuff like that
did you just
supple dagger
"touch me, and I'll shall have your head(s)"
lament flame
He just want to be friends with Hydra(
livid lance
I don't think the Hydra naming counts if you run EM
open berry
I Pretend I Do Not See It
deep spoke
I wish he had a line for beating the Hydra with Poseidon's help
something something stay Hydrated
supple dagger
"5 second rule. That was 5 seconds, right?"
deep spoke
There's a very special part of Hades reserved for me, I know
supple dagger
Chaos would love you
opaque lichen
inb4 sword's special aspect is japanese and the shield gets the arthurian aspect or something. aspect of galahad lol
either that or instead of excalibur, it'll be the sword of david for the sword aspect
hollow mortar
It could be Kusanagi
open berry
it wouldnt surprise me to see an arthurian aspect, just as long as its not excalibur because thats predictable and boring.
tame bronze
Lost my streak, feels bad man.
junior field
so what if Excalibur is predictable?
and how boring it is would depend entirely on how it plays
look at Guan Yu, the best spear aspect, and not just because of its damage output
its attack is garbage but spin and special are great
opaque lichen
i wonder how unlocking the other 4th aspects will work out?
like maybe zagreus starts to unlock the sword's 4th aspect by talking to poseidon about it and like achilles, he tells zagreus of the visions his ancient weapon keeps sending him
junior field
probably the same way: unlock the other 3, talk to someone, boom
bet Skelly unlocks the 4th sword aspect
by talking to the sword
💀
opaque lichen
kek
inb4 skelly is secretly from the future or something
either that or he has future sight
i want skelly to be the super boss
livid lance
I have a theory that skelly is Zag's grandfather
junior field
Demeter said a farmer
opaque lichen
ah
havent gotten that dialogue yet so good to know
my favorite new dialogue is hades telling zagreus to keep demeter in the dark, lest he ruin everything
downside is everything goes straight to hell
upside is zagreus gets spoiled rotten by his grandma (considering her own track record anyhow)
hollow mortar
So Chaos refers to themselves as we and everyone else calls them like that too. But in this dialogue with Zagreus, Chaos used “I” more than once. Was that a slip up or do they sometimes refer to themselves as “I” and “me”?
tiny sequoia
maybe there's a distinction in what they mean by "we" and "me"?
more likely an oversight by the writers
hollow mortar
It’s in the conversation he has with Zagreus regarding Nyx
sharp axle
I thought Chaos predates the concepts of identity, so it can't really be represented accurately with pronouns
hollow mortar
It just baffles me because Chaos always says We when you pick their boons and such
Not a matter of identity, but consistency
It’s as if Meg suddenly gets called “he” when in the whole game we see “she”, you know?
sharp axle
Meg has a solid identity though
hollow mortar
It was just an example
sharp axle
I'm not even sure if Chaos is supposed to be represented as a humanoid, but just appears that way to Zag, so be more relatable
Like, in the Slayers universe, the "chaos" character's true form was a vast sea of chaos, but it appeared as a humanoid when it talked to people.
But there's also a decent chance it's an oversight
hollow mortar
I kind of want to tell it to a developer so they look at it since it might be a writing oversight
sharp axle
But in greek mythology, Chaos is the primordial void, so its true form might actually be a vast sea of nothing
Feel free to mention it in the feedback channel, so the devs can review it
hollow mortar
Will do, just in case
bleak osprey
Chaos is nonbinary and uses they/them! I'm not sure where you're getting "we" from because all their dialogue I've seen uses "I" or "me"?
hollow mortar
They says “We something something” when you pick up his boons and such. And I have seen we plenty of time in his dialogues. Let me do another run to show it
bleak osprey
they
hollow mortar
Whoops, edited
junior field
If that is your desire, we shall call it done.
Is the only line with "we" that I see in subs, not that it matters
it's chaos, he could be a dude covered in tiny faces or an egg
bleak osprey
the lines where chaos uses "we" are generally referring to themself and zagreus
chaos isn't a dude and they don't use "he"
main gulch
The we in that line would be a pretty normal thing to say since both parties of the deal would agree that it's done
hollow viper
Yeah, that 'we' refers to Zag and Chaos. It's a pretty common transactional use of 'We'. If a touch archaic.
Which suits them, the Primordial Orginator Being wonderfully, I'd say!
drifting citrus
chaos practically defines archaic
hollow viper
Ye
drifting citrus
it was their word first!
sharp axle
Chaos is a collective, so you can't assign a single identity to it
bleak osprey
chaos is nonbinary and uses they/them
sharp axle
did the devs say that?
merry sorrel
if a mod is telling you that it's probably accurate enough
solar depot
they did!
does chaos care? no, probably it's irrelevant to them, but so are most human quirks... but to those of us irl who use they/them it is very awesome and means the world!! 
sharp axle
Well, if it really makes people happy, I'll switch to considering Chaos as non-binary.
earnest spindle
It's literally a being beyond comprehension, why you trying to comprehend it.
solar depot
it does! it's great that you're taking that tack!
it's true, they're beyond our comprehension 🙌
burnt harbor
Oh ok
I thought she was a little sister dunno why
Of course they both are even more esoteric than the 'Normal' Gods
So using terms like sister and father feels weird
atomic forge
so
i come back from leavign the game a while and im on my 48 heat run still. I get through it and find it now goes up to 49 heat? >.> sheesh.....
solid wyvern
what do you get after completing it?
strong horizon
32 heat?
fiery flower
The statue of skelly too
strong horizon
yeah
trail plinth
man, i just finished patroclus entry, that's so creepy 0-0
fiery flower
Has anyone noticed a little ball next to the Lyre that has the Pyre logo?
deep spoke
Hot take
Hades and Zagreus trading Boiling Blood and/or deflecting skulls back with Athena Dash is just Hades and his son finally getting to do one of the dadliest activities there is, playing catch
fiery flower
More like hot potato with a live grenade.
deep spoke
It's extreme catch
fiery flower
Live grenade
deep spoke
And yet still technically playing ball with Dad.
glad lion
I mean they are gods, they are bound to make it more interesting somehow
deep spoke
Hades just isn't good at expressing himself, clearly
glad lion
The biggest truth ever spoken
atomic forge
Okay, look. There's being bad at communicating and there's refusing to communicate at all as well as all of the fights to the death.
deep spoke
Guys, I just realized this game is basically the opposite of PS4 God of War
Boy of Dad
atomic forge
With better writing, to be sure.
deep spoke
Much like Hades, God of War was also originally named after the antagonist...
Also. Atreus, Zagreus...
calm geyser
I mean, Zag doesn't even have a real concept of death though? It takes a chat with Thanatos to get him to realize how impactful it is for mortals do be...well, mortal.
deep spoke
Oops
I always forget.
But anyway, for Zag himself death is just being memed on by the narrator
calm geyser
It's still painful, clearly, but it's...not the same when you can't really...die. Like. He's being sent back to his room after getting super competitive with his dad.
deep spoke
At most, it's probably giving him hella back pain, but it's never been all that threatening.
calm geyser
Yeah.
deep spoke
On the subject of reconciling, even Eurydice stops being so resentful toward Orpheus, so there's some hope there.
But at the same time it's still kinda funny to imagine Zag just being a brat and not inviting his dad to the party in his own house
I can't wait to find out what the deal is in the mortal world.
Why does Demeter act like it's necessary to inflict an ice age on the world?
She says something about Zagreus not understanding how important it is, or something. I thought in the original myths, it was a matter of her being absolutely pissed about the taking of Persephone and only letting up once they worked out a way for her to visit the overworld for a few months.
calm geyser
Maybe the humans didn't try to help her find Persephone? Or maybe she's punishing them to get Zeus to actually do something to help search instead of sitting around and soaking in mortal praises. And chasing women. Who knows.
deep spoke
But here, it implies she's also doing it to prevent something worse.
No, it's just... one random line she says implies it's not just her personal stake.
I can't remember it.
But it implied subtly that letting the mortals do their thing would just... be worse than the alternative.
calm geyser
Oh! I haven't seen any dialogue like that yet. Hm. Maybe something would happen if spring time comes and Persephone's not there?
deep spoke
I wonder if it has something to do with the Infernal Arms - it has been mentioned that the Rail, which is a gun, is basically a portent of the mortals' future.
Maybe the mortals were about to start a particularly bad war or something.
Supergiant loves its post-apocalyptic tropes...
calm geyser
Oh!! That would make sense.
deep spoke
And eternal winter is definitely up their alley...
Always some hints in a SGG game that the calamity (heh) befalling the world is never without cause.
tame bronze
Her dialogue does heavily hint on her current distaste for mortals. Does she feel like she's being taken advantage of? Does she think the mortals have something to do with the disappearance of her daughter? That makes me wonder though if Persephone was ever fond of mortalkind.
deep spoke
All I'm sure of is that this is going to be far more than a simple family dispute.
It's not just about Persephone. She has a reason to be hostile to the mortal world right now... and considering whose game this is, it's very likely to be an understandable reason, even if the response is (also par for the course) excessive and probably not entirely justifiable.
tall kindle
I hate and love this game because, after giving a character something like 16 Ambrosia, I was given the option of taking it back with no negative repercussions and I just... couldn't do it.
main hearth
I hope Dusa eventually makes it onto the employee of the month board
tidal cedar
deep spoke
Yes
restive elk
I'm sure she will
IT'S IN OUR POWER TO DO SO WITH THE POWER OF OUR COLLECTIVE WHINNING
deep spoke
suggest it
restive elk
I think it's already made to feedback
restive elk
80+ 👍
deep spoke
was 78 when I saw it, but guess it's over that now!
restive elk
was then I upvoted it
lunar ibex
I think they'll add a lot more to the relationship and base building aspect to the game, but it's just not a priority. I'd imagine those changes are much easier to implement than the core gameplay but adding content and complexity to the actual gameplay is more important to them
I would just like the dialog to not reset to what it was at the beginning
Dusa just acts exactly as before I ever gave her anything
deep spoke
oh yeah same
heady rain
tfw lament of orpheus playing while you get intimate with thanatos
orpheus literally reminiscing about his love while you get the love on
lunar ibex
After you live that long you stop giving a duck
clever juniper
But giving tthe duck the nectar is the keepsake, it was the whole time
deep spoke
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/198553698450800640/675693750223241227/unknown.png
Zagreus: Dad, I want some coins for the arcade.
Hades:
main hearth
I hope that one day we will be able to get into Hades's room and find the closet full of capes to burn away
deep spoke
LMAO
deep spoke
I should start a secondary twitter for Incorrect Hades Quotes
main hearth
i just hope he doesn't say "Ruin has come to our family" at some point
it'll give me darkest dungeon flashbacks
burnt harbor
Now matter how much Zagreus runs, his father will follow closely
Why?
||Because he is an Hadesive||
burnt harbor
It's only fair that a Hades Joke is also a dad joke
deep spoke
I bet people have Hadenough of our puns
tame bronze
I'm leaving
deep spoke
@tame bronze Hi leaving, I'm Dad
main hearth
More like "you can never leave, this is the Underworld"
strong horizon
is there something that makes Demeters legendary super common?
i got it every time i picked her
solid wyvern
not really
drifting citrus
you just need a tier 2 boon, and she was just recently added so she doesn’t have a big boon list yet
heady rain
@atomic forge wanted to ask you this here since you've 10 months into this game - is there anything unique after completing all mirror of night upgrades/buying all contractor stuff?
atomic forge
Not on Darkness, I'm sitting on 72k right now, but we're supposed to be getting an endgame Darkness overhaul in the next update or two.
I don't actually have the Contractor bought out yet, and I wasn't planning on it. Was gonna not buy the Theseus poster, though I might buy it and then take it down so I've got everything.
atomic forge
Most runs I'll use all of them, but I'm super liberal with using them.
heady rain
what do you usually reroll?
atomic forge
Hearts.
heady rain
you don't go for hearts?
atomic forge
Oh, sometimes.
I do that if I'm running very high Heat with a build that does lots of hits per second, like Hangover or lightning.
heady rain
cause i'm reaching the 10+ heat parts
which means i probably need to play wayyy safer lmao
i think <10 heat runs are doable easily but anything above 10 warrants some more extra learning
which is what i don't know i guess
usually not sure what to build
all this time i've been building poseidon special on shield of chaos with zeus duo lmao
hollow garden
Depends on what you run for 10 heat tbh
atomic forge
The knowledge will come in time.
heady rain
everything
i've 10 heat clears on all weapons except rail
which if i may add, screw the rail until i get dark thirst on it
hollow garden
Some versions of 10 hear might be easier than others
atomic forge
Easiest 10 Heat, imo, is maxed Extreme Measures and Hard Labor.
(I haven't turned off double damage in weeks)
It's probably not Hard Labor.
hollow garden
oof rail I have all the way up to 20 cause I love it so much
heady rain
hard labour for me is kinda monkaS
atomic forge
Pear, you have a 32 clear yet?
hollow garden
I unfortunately haven't had the time to
heady rain
i usually go extreme measures 3 overtime 1 damage control 2
hollow garden
It's on my to-do list to sit down and grind it out. I've been practicing 32 on sword.
heady rain
if on rail or on weapons which hit slow
errant mango
32 on sword, how ???
heady rain
i take out damage control and go 1 hard labour 1 calis
atomic forge
Nah, most people don't.
errant mango
I don't like it either
hollow garden
Most people don't, it's just a really easy way to get 5 heat.
errant mango
It's all fine until Elysium and then its... yeah
hollow garden
I don't like Deadline in its current form.
heady rain
welp time to run my first over 10 heat run lmao
luckily it's on shield
yolo
what to build on special now though
sigh
atomic forge
Most of my 32 Heat attempts ended in Elysium to the timer.
hollow garden
My only real problem with 32 is that if I don't use Deadline I have to use Budget Cuts or No Choice. And those are worse options.
errant mango
When I tried 32 I didn't make it out of Tartarus. And I was using the shield too...
hollow garden
Most of my 32 attempts have also ended in Elysium due to the timer
It's an annoyance
Styx can also easily end your run cause you just get the sack in the 5th wing and then you have no time to fight Hades
hollow garden
Also avoid miniboss rooms like the plague in Elysium
Rolling the Minotaur fight at 32 heat with the timer is an instant loss.
That will consume like 2-3 minutes you don't have
heady rain
i don't want to even touch 32 heat
until i finish all bounties lol
wonder if i can keep my streak though
probably not, will choke on sword/rail
atomic forge
I think I got Asterius on that Rail clear.
atomic forge
No, but I'm pretty sure I had Splitting Bolt.
atomic forge
And Triple Inescapable Blast with Deadly Flourish.
Did you see the psychopath who cleared 40 Heat with Eris and spamming Cluster Rockets?
hollow garden
That doesn't surprise me. Cluster Rockets is a great combo
atomic forge
It's a busted combo.
errant mango
Does is stack or?
hollow garden
Cluster Rockets might be my potential new go to combo if I find Rocket Bomb first. I can't stand Cluster Bomb on its own.
atomic forge
It's like Spread Fire Hestia but you can use Dionysus or Zeus attack on top of the shotgun.
heady rain
do you reroll gold rooms btw?
hollow garden
I typically only reroll miniboss rooms
heady rain
also, cluster artemis rockets is how you shred everything lol
atomic forge
Very occasionally.
heady rain
cluster artemis rockets was used in the 40 heat run
atomic forge
heady rain
yep that run
also holy crap
this 11 heat run's rng is bad
no dio special
no zeus aid
atomic forge
Most of their videos are "Look at how much better I am than all of you."
deep spoke
Michael Bay rofl
atomic forge
How early in the run are you?
atomic forge
Give it time.
atomic forge
I've had runs limp along until Styx and then I walked through Hades.
forest meteor
That...that image of Zag with the shades and cigar....
forest meteor
🤣
errant mango
Oh that's the crazy good Nuclear Throne player...
heady rain
literally
it gave me epic poseidon special
when so far in my run every other boon has been common/rare
i'm takin it
errant mango
I just finished a run and got a "perfect clear" title. Does anyone know what that means? Not losing DD to Hades? I died once at Theseus & Asterius so it can't be perfecting all bosses
atomic forge
Full HP when you beat Hades.
errant mango
Ahh I see now. Bless acorn lol
deep spoke
A+corn
junior field
the corn is mightier than the spear
upper vigil
if you have acorn + athena's legendary, what order do they get used up in? 🤔
junior field
Shield first
errant mango
Oh I had that the other day, but I have no idea lol
junior field
so you could lose the shield, dash around, regain the shield, lose the shield, repeat forever
errant mango
What was the cooldown on Athena's legendary?
upper vigil
i love athena's legendary
junior field
20
upper vigil
20s, but it's a lot less than you think
hollow mortar
What do you mean a lot less? A bug in timer?
deep spoke
Just probably that it's more useful than it sounds like on paper
junior field
it's a speartip that doesn't require you to get punched in face first
also, it lasts forever
atomic forge
You don't have to get punched in the face.
I've walked into poison puddles, and I'm pretty sure Satyr darts will proc the shield but not inflict damage first.
crimson osprey
The pillars used to hide from Hades' lasers on phase two I feel are a little difficult to see exactly where to hide behind
forest meteor
And done at last. Maximum Mirror achieved. 🥳
https://ibb.co/sQ06Nhj
supple parcel
beat my first hades run on stream!
heck yeah.
didn't even die ONCE on the way up to the final boss. i had 3 death defiances and and an extra one with the tooth and by the end i only died twice during the final battle!
dense crown
nice!
proven shadow
I'm having some trouble with the romance options, can you guys help me out?
I've heard that you can invite people to your room once you've maxed out their affection with ambrosia. I've done that with Than and Dusa, but nothing happened
Also, I can't give any ambrosia to Meg, do you know why that could be?
ember mango
@proven shadow its possible that they still have dialogue built up that you have to exhaust before you get to the dialogue that triggers the room event
just keep talking to them whenever you see them and in a few more runs the room event should happen
proven shadow
They just keep repeating their dialogue though
@ember mango They've just been repeating themselves for tons of runs at this point
junior field
she should just appear in your room after a run
proven shadow
What about Thanatos?
junior field
you mean none of them appeared in your room after maxing out their relationships?
proven shadow
I've talked to him about 10 times so CE I maxed him out, and he just keep saying something like "not now, zag"
@junior field Exactly
proven shadow
Oh, alright
primal cipher
I was doing a high heat run and forgot Hades pots count as 'traps' and got destroyed in the final phase 😩
proven shadow
Wait, they count as traps? I didn't know that!
zealous spindle
Yeah, they hit for well over 100 damage with certain pacts
sharp axle
And good luck hitting the pots with a ranged attack, with aim-assist turned on
rapid kayak
Yeah I learned that one the hard way as well
They hit for like 150-170 something
Not sure if they stack with Hard Labor as well
Talk about a hard-hitting pot
On another note, has anyone ever actually managed a full 49 heat run?
Like is it actually possible?
Like at some point it jus goes beyond how good the player is, the addition of the timer just makes it impossible
atomic forge
49/50 on Hell Heat is probably impossible right now.
sharp axle
Hell mode has an extra point
rapid kayak
Oh it does?
sharp axle
yeah. no helpful shield if you take too much damage
rapid kayak
Oh I usually get one-shot before that happens anyway lol
main gulch
until tight deadline gets reworked or elysium gets nerfed max heat is impossible
rapid kayak
I see
Well, I'm really curious to see what happens if you do somehow manage to do max heat
turbid hearth
my last 4 runs that lost were to urns
rapid kayak
I'm gonna tinker with some files see if there's anything to report back if I manage to do it
turbid hearth
the animation looks like the circle expands from the urn but the hit box is bigger
if it expanded rather than being 0 -> 1
I might have had a chance
fiery flower
Oh snap
got a piece of dialog from Demeter saying she named her daughter Kore.
But she preferred to call herself Persephone
junior field
aw, that's the one I accidentally skipped
atomic forge
Yeeaaahhhh, it's deeply dramatic.
fiery flower
Zag has no response to it though
junior field
really made me wish there was a way to replay dialogues
fiery flower
something like "EXCUSE ME HOLUP"
fiery flower
OH SNAP
I GOT THE LINE
Zag made the realization
the 2nd time I met Demeter during the run.
fiery flower
Yea. Got to Hades now.,
rapid kayak
Must be nice getting new voicelines 
I got to Hades once after picking up a few of Demeter's boons, he acknowledged it and then asked me "how much she told me." which clearly confused Zagreus. I was hoping that it would open up some dialogue the next time I pick up a boon from Demeter but no dice as of yet.
fiery flower
I maxed out the affection meter thing with Demeter for a long while before this happened though.
rapid kayak
Ah, I suppose I have to just let some time pass then
I honestly just burned myself out doing high heat runs and I just can't stand Styx anymore
deep spoke
same
rapid kayak
I actually love Elysium
As pesky as the Exalted are
Styx is just downright gross
First of all, I hate that I have to play the roulette every single time
fiery flower
Exalted shield bearer might as well be one shade-phalanx
echo mist
satyrs weakness is Guan Yu
fiery flower
Guan Yu's weakness is probably No Choice
rapid kayak
Because they're unironically the easiest
Like how does that even make sense lol
I just shred the Mega Bother or the Mega Satyr to pieces in like 5 seconds and then it's done
Meanwhile, in other rooms, the Brimstones-on-steroid-whose-names-I-forgot combined with Satyrs and little rats coming at you leave very little room for counterplay
rapid kayak
Yeah those
deep spoke
the skull ones are definitely the easiest
echo mist
snakestones?
fiery flower
Snakestones
Discostones.
echo mist
oh those f-ers
deep spoke
ah yes, the famous playwright, william snakestone
deep spoke
no, that murder you with lasers
rapid kayak
No no, the ones that shoot like 10 lasers
rapid kayak
Guan Yu's aspect feels pretty broken
fiery flower
What if you eat the snakestones?
rapid kayak
Not sure if it's just me or it's definitely getting hit next patch
rapid kayak
I just think lifesteal shouldn't be a thing but then again that's just my personal opinion
It does have its downsides though, correct
deep spoke
hard disagree, lifesteal is a fun mechanic
junior field
I find GY's downside to be a fair one, the sword's hammer however, not so much
deep spoke
honestly, it's far harsher unless you have flurry
with any other context it's too brutal tbh
junior field
I think the -70% is the harsh part
it's a melee weapon, you can't spam it over a wall
deep spoke
yeah
that said, apparently really easy with flurry slash, but without it, it may as well be a quick trip to lose
open berry
People are pretty divided on gy, I've seen some people say it's broken, and others say it's one of the worst aspects
heady rain
never take cursed slash unless with flurry slash imo
junior field
my problem with GY is simple: the spin is bad without the speed hammer, the special is very good, and the attack is too slow to be useful
the HP loss at level 5 is reasonable, provided you have extra 50 HP from the mirror/collar
heady rain
extra 50 hp from collar only equates to 25 hp
heady rain
ah
lol
GY is all about spamming special early
then once you get quick spin
spam spin
zealous spindle
Guan Yu's special is crazy. My 32 heat hell Quan Yu hardly used spin at all. I just stayed back and threw 2200+ damage charged skewers at everything
echo mist
Guan Yu's special is the best thing about it
ideally what you wanna be doing is dash attacking and specials without taking damage
that way you have no need to spin
and you slowly build up max hp by picking up darkness and centaur hearts
zealous spindle
Yeah, the base damage on the special is incredible. It doesn't take much to get it rolling. Almost any +% on it and you one shot most mods in Tartarus. If you get charged skewer on your first hammer you basically win as long as you dodge stuff
deep spoke
@quasi prawn moving here. GY, hit the surface. No need to beat Hades afaik
I had mine maxed. I don't know if it's mandatory.
But not maxing Guan is the fast road to pain
Can confirm a charged skewer Guan was dummy good, Chaos buff just made it insane
quasi prawn
Thank you for the advice. I'll try
drifting iris
sharp axle
gy is a bit crazy, on default enemy damage and default enemy speed, but if you crank up both those punishments to max, then don't be surprised if you find out you don't have time to use the spin attack on EX hydra or the final boss, if you don't have the charge speed hammer upgrade
primal cipher
Do you guys have any idea of what the next weapon could be?
junior field
something ranged
people speculated that it could be a throw hammer
primary attack is ranged, special is melee
primal cipher
That could be cool, but it kind of seems simular to the shield then
junior field
not really, since you don't become invulnerable while attacking
probably same range as the rail, with a triple hit attack combo
primal cipher
That's cool, I'd be nice to see a combo at range besides Charon's bow
primal cipher
I mean the seeking special
I'd be kind of funny if it went like DMCV and you had your own Macedonian that you could smash into foes with heavy attacks or a charge. But highly unlikely obviously
junior field
I meant combo in the same sense as sword/spear, where you do 2 quick attacks and a slower 3rd with a bigger damage
deep spoke
@junior field Was it ever confirmed to be ranged?
junior field
not officially, no
junior field
but it'd make sense since there are 3 melee weapon and only 2 ranged
main gulch
presumed since 3/3 and it's next to the other two ranged
deep spoke
not a huge fan of the idea for throwing hammer, but I want a magic staff
junior field
plus, it's on the ranged side
deep spoke
where Zagreus floats
junior field
you press attack, the hammer flies out punching through all enemies, and then flies back to you
sorta like the spear special but without the need to spam the button
and the 3rd throw deals increased damage in an AOE
deep spoke
so what, Aspect of Thor for the third and just basically be a walking collection of Avengers jokes?
junior field
verily
junior field
just put Zeus onto it
deep spoke
aspects: Aesculapius, perhaps Hecate (she's not depicted with one, but magic staves are in the game)
primal cipher
A whip could be rad
With some interesting aspects from the furies
But that'd probably be too simular to the sword
heady rain
So just curious here, in the dialogue option between hades and than when hades confronts than about helping you (he finally finds out), hades says that "this is your realm, not mine, I'll not cast you into that wretched pit" (meaning Tartarus). Does this mean that the Underworld isn't Hades' but instead Chaos'/Nyx's?
junior field
Thanatos predates Hades, as does Nyx and Chaos
maybe even Charon
who would take the souls downstairs? Who would ferry them through the underworld?
heady rain
from what i know it's Chaos > everyone else
junior field
not Hades, that's for sure
heady rain
i don't really know my greek mythology
Chaos > Nyx > Than/Hypnos > Fury Sisters (?)
then greek gods came from somewhere else
cause there's chthonic gods as well as olympian gods
deep spoke
@fleet wind without spoiling details - you'll be just fine.
junior field
Olympians were children of the Titans
deep spoke
SGG writing, pushing the envelope on what's considered "acceptable" to portray in a game's story (in a good way) as always, and everyone's living for it
junior field
I'm...not sure how they're "pushing the envelope" here, considering Demeter's rewrite
deep spoke
@junior field in what context?
I'm talking about the relationship writing, because Peter was asking a specific thing re: romances
junior field
ah
proud bloom
Are there any GoW easter eggs in the game?
deep spoke
and that's just supergiant being supergiant and doing stuff almost no one does or gets away with, casually, without batting an eyelash
without being all loud and pushy and obnoxious about it either, which has always been my favorite part
junior field
they have the advantage of being an indie studio
which doesn't make the approach unique, just look at Bioware
deep spoke
nah I mean, it's the way they handle it
It's both subtle and casual.
Like... you know, the Kendrells in Transistor?
The way Zag's romances work here?
junior field
uh, the 2 evil dudes?
deep spoke
Basically, the main thing is - representation done right, not in a way that's like "and now here's a guy whose only role in the story is to Be Gay and thus fill a quota"
With class and finesse, as it should always be
and without taking shots at anyone else out of spite
Anyway, what are you talking about re: Demeter
junior field
she's not Zeus' consort in Hades
fleet wind
The Olympian relationships shift around a lot, but Hera is supposed to be Zeus' main squeeze, not Demeter
deep spoke
Yeah, I mean, mythology has a lot of vague spots
the entire concept of the game, the entire conceit of Zagreus existing as a main character, is based on one vague interpretation of an incredibly uncommon name that refers to, what, three different figures?
mate, if you ask different people, Zagreus is just Dionysus, and if you ask others, he's Hades
fleet wind
(Hence all the trolling of Orpheus)
junior field
I had no idea what Zagreus was
figured it must be just a made up protag for the game
burnt harbor
After all these centuries, the fanfiction has overtaken the myths smh
deep spoke
variously:
-the Dionysus of the Orphic tradition
-Hades himself, lord of the underworld
-Hades' son
so they picked the most fun one for this story and rolled with it
burnt harbor
Or maybe they are saying the reason these discrepancies exist is because Dio and Zag decided to troll a lyricist
deep spoke
rofl
burnt harbor
Same reason here Zeus doesn't tap everything. The stories are just him bragging
junior field
except that half the Olympus is populated by his children
burnt harbor
Yeah,.but it's not a supernatural big number 
fleet wind
I mean, given enough time, one gets around
burnt harbor
Like bruh he and his children are immortal of course they gonna accumulate
gilded egret
Okay, so quick question about the romantic relationship bonds
I know that you can max out more then one at once, but if you do and engage in an, ahem, “romance” sequence with more then one person, is there any kind of acknowledgement or penalty for that?
errant mango
They acknowledge it but there's no penalty
heady rain
no penalty, yes to acknowledgement
gilded egret
Awesome
gilded egret
TBH, it kinda feels weird if the acknowledgement is only after the fact though
errant mango
I think it's both before and after? I'm not quite sure
gilded egret
It would be nice if you’re on the cusp of romancing someone and someone you already know notices and let’s you know they’re cool with it, if that’s not already the case
errant mango
Depending on in which order those scenes happen
heady rain
it's that case
errant mango
The scenes? Yes
heady rain
requires some more dialogue options
after maxing out hearts you usually have to go through some more fixed dialogue
then afterwards it's done
errant mango
I didn't go the poly route so I can't say for sure
deep spoke
also, I'm fairly sure it's less like the traditional "conquest" approach of harem stories, more like an actual healthy polyamorous relationship
gilded egret
I haven’t even tried yet, cause I was so scared of pissing of the person I’m with, but now I’ll give it a shot
brb building my Greek polycule
errant mango
They're all cool with it. Have fun lol
deep spoke
Which is the best part
heady rain
even meg says
deep spoke
It's not just "acquired more trophy wives"
errant mango
And I love how Zag actually asks them if they're ok with that situation
It's so nice
gilded egret
Actually, does Zeus or any other Olympian have special dialogue if you go Poly?
fleet wind
That's how we do, in the real world
gilded egret
I’d love if Zeus was like “eyy good job doing it better then I did”
deep spoke
This is what I mean by Supergiant pulling this stuff off with finesse.
native marlin
Seems like Zeus would be better off as God of the Underworld in that case lol
deep spoke
It does sound like it'd be fun to see at least some acknowledgment of it
errant mango
It's odd how Dusa still gives her blessings to Zag & Meg even when you don't romance her. Not sure if that's intended.
livid lance
There is a conversation with achilles discussing you loving multiple characters
deep spoke
well, among the Olympians, that does sound like a fun thing to add
It's likely they will add it eventually for giggles
fallow bronze
@gilded egret I have some screenshots of than’s dialogue if you’ve already romanced him and are going for meg if u want
gilded egret
Thanks, but I’d rather find out for myself
tame bronze
I just noticed thanks to a Tumblr post that there is some variation of Zag dialogue when Than shows up during runs that can be determined based on how many hearts you have with Than.
open berry
whoever is running the hades dialogue blog is a saint
it's been nice quickly comparing my notes
wild fiber
As far as polyamory or whatever goes, aren't there only two romances you can actually take to that point, since Dusa doesn't want to have a relationship? One is heterosexual and the other isn't, and ancient greece had rather different ideas of sexual expression than we do-heck, different city states had radically different ideas of sex. Some places had a very romanticized idea of pederasty, while other places had this idea that brothers in arms could or should be lovers as well. Neither of these relationships would have been taken as a sign that a man ought not to take a wife. So...yeah, part of it might be that these characters wouldn't see a lover of the opposite sex as infringing on their reasonable expectations of fidelity.
deep spoke
Well yeah, that's exactly why it's so great
bleak osprey
i don't know how to explain to you that Sometimes People Are Just Polyamorous And Also Bisexual
wild fiber
For obvious reasons this is not something people IRL should try at home, particularly in the modern world
deep spoke
???
What
I mean, the pederasty thing probably not, but there's nothing wrong with consensual polyamory
faint socket
Yeah, polyamory is something ethically observed by folks today. It’s not the same as cheating.
violet hull
I know quite a few people in great polyam relationships
wild fiber
Because people in the modern world don't have anything like the same cultural background. Most people IRL would tend to see such a relationship as an infringement, regardless of whether they've got the gall to say so.
like, people will let you get away with hurting them, if you're somebody important to them
Often they'll even deny that you're hurting them if you ask.
bleak osprey
how does that have anything to do with this topic though
faint socket
Yeah this is getting off-topic
deep spoke
that is... yeah, no, it's really not relevant
bleak osprey
zag, meg, and than aren't hurting each other well meg and zag are certainly hurting each other BUT that's Different and also, again, polyamory exists and is not comparable to cheating when it's done healthily and consensually between all parties involved, which it is in hades
deep spoke
And just because society frowns on something doesn't necessarily mean it's bad - I mean, in a lot of places just being bi or gay remains lethally illegal.
violet hull
I think it is significant that Zag asks Thanatos if Megaera knows what's going on before they even do anything.
wild fiber
agree with that
sharp axle
And it should be noted this is a very modern interpretation of Greek mythology
wild fiber
No kidding
literally everybody has nothing nice to say about the heroic ideal of the greeks
the "be a great warrior or king and do great things"
sharp axle
I don't think there are any scholars that would try to argue that Achilles (in The Illiad) was in a healthly poly relationship, where everyone knew about each other, and was super ok with it
but we aren't going for traditional interpretations
deep spoke
I think the fact that SGG A) has never let social "acceptance" stop them from writing good, sensitive, subtle stories featuring an organically diverse array of characters, B) has the writing chops to successfully portray healthy and ethical relationships within that variety, and C) has a great balance between their interpretation of the myths and the canonical lore in Hades especially, is basically all Good Stuff.
wild fiber
There's certainly not enough information to say on that count what briseis thought of it
fiery flower
Good guy SGG.
deep spoke
this tbh
wild fiber
Briseis can easily be replaced with a pretty piece of jewelry
deep spoke
man, don't get me started on ancient Greek ideals
I'm not gonna deliver the whole salt truck about Plato's notion of a good king.
wild fiber
The only thing that's scary, rather than amusing, about plato's philosopher king is how many modern people with power seem to agree with him.
But yeah I'm not promoting archaic greek ideals or mores, I'm just saying it's a bit strange that absolutely nobody in the cast seems to agree with them.
deep spoke
There's a lovely analysis post that talks about the love interests and other prominent figures mapping out quite nicely to the Greek concepts of love, actually
So that's not necessarily the case.
wild fiber
Achilles being jaded on the subject, well, okay, and Patroclus being unhappy about seeing every two-bit glory hound he ever disliked in life prancing around elysium while Achilles is missing and presumably not in elysium makes some sense
can you link that post? my interest is piqued.
tame bronze
Heyo
faint socket
Hey there!
deep spoke
But I think it's less that those cultural contexts don't exist, and more that they're refactored into something different, something more befitting the story SGG wants to tell.
Maybe examined from a different angle, in some ways deconstructed.
Hades represents authority and tradition rather strongly, no?
wild fiber
He's a mostly negative iteration of the jungian archetype of the father.
What I think is interesting is that he's not 100% negative
despite everything, he does treat zagreus slightly better than Chronos treated him.
fiery flower
🤔
atomic forge
hi, i want to know if in game already is limit of chambers
fiery flower
That's like the person stabbing you saying "You had it good, I was shot."
deep spoke
Well, by the standards of literal gods who treat death as a slap on the wrist by a Narrator with a weird sense of humor, he hasn't even done anything THAT bad.
By those standards.
burnt halo
Kronos/Cronus, not Chronos
deep spoke
It's obviously not healthy by the standards of a normal human relationship, but it also captures the essential and oft forgotten fact that Zagreus ain't human
bleak osprey
what's not healthy?
fiery flower
Love.
deep spoke
Well, Hades beating the piss out of his son to yeet him back home
By normal human relationships that's murder, by the standards of Zag and family it's being sent to your room via the discomfort express
fiery flower
The Mortal Kombat style of parenting.
bleak osprey
i mean, you're ignoring the emotional aspects of the abuse, as well as the fact that even if zag is functionally imortal his own dad is still murdering him repeatedly (as well as sending shades after him in survival rooms, and ordering the furies to guard the way out of tartarus)
there is no standards by which any of this is even remotely okay
deep spoke
It's still not great for sure
They've got issues.
Everyone does in here.
But this is hell, as well
bleak osprey
cool motive! still abuse!
burnt halo
i mean, it's also the application of human morality to nonhumans
fiery flower
I mean the final stage of the game is you beating the hell out of your abuser /s
deep spoke
Nor does it really excuse most of this stuff.
bleak osprey
what, pray tell, isn't black and white about "abusing your child is bad"
wild fiber
I didn't say Hades is a good dad, good grief
deep spoke
No one said that, though
burnt halo
^
wild fiber
I said that he's not a 100% negative caricature of the father
deep spoke
Which is true.
haughty carbon
I mean do we have enough context why Hades tries to keep Zagreus in underworld.