He made everyone not believe a single word she said
#h1-story-discussion
coarse stone
split crane
oof
coarse stone
She could prophecy horrible fates for people and try to avert it and no one would believe her. Forcing her to watch her visions come true.
Basically the only Olympian that was fair at ALL would probably be Hephestus.
coarse stone
Brutal is...kinda what the Olympians were good at. Spiteful retribution.
Actually appears in game, the boon competition rooms.
coarse stone
Aphrodite, the goddess of love, threatens to come down to KILL you
split crane
I still think that they should bicker in those rooms
When you pick one, they could boast about how much you like them
coarse stone
I think those rooms show their true personality
They're not mad that Zag is taking another God's blessings
they're mad that Zag isn't taking THEIRS
So they care about each other, somewhat
split crane
yeah
coarse stone
but Zag is literally just a toy to them
any pretense of "caring" can go out the window. Aphrodite, I'm looking directly at you for that one.
Although Dio's is...kinda wonky since he acts like he's drunk but who knows if he really is.
Zeus takes Aphrodite's threat and basically makes it even more ominous
"Don't test me boy."
"Or tempt me. You will regret it"
So let's just say that I think I prefer Hades over them lol
although I'm doing a bit of interesting reading. About whips. Since Meg inspired me to read up on them.
I don't even know how Zag is even ALIVE.
(and intact. Those things are dangerous.)
split crane
He is a demigod remember
light ivy
Same way he survives getting run through by spears, I figure
fickle yoke
3 quarter god
coarse stone
well to be fair, whips are far more dangerous than spears
which...actually is terrifyingly horrific.
I pity any victim of Tisiphone or Alecto lol
fickle yoke
murrrdererrrrs
light ivy
Yeah I definitely feel bad for Sisyphus, for example, it's just
coarse stone
well I kinda don't lol
light ivy
that boy is indestructible
inner lily
What did Sisyphus do during life?
light ivy
Yeah, he was, but I mean, eternity is a looong time to change
fickle yoke
read myths
inner lily
I am very un-cultured when it comes to greek myth 😛
coarse stone
plotted to kill his own brother
inner lily
thats pretty interesting
coarse stone
and biggest thing, tried to cheat Death
inner lily
I guess thats why he and Thanatos kid of butt heads?
light ivy
I've learned a bunch of stuff about Greek myths because of this game lol
inner lily
yeah maybe I should read some wikipedia or something
light ivy
"Why does x get so mad about y?" "...oh that's a good reason yeah"
coarse stone
Yeah, it's actually pretty telling that he's literally horrific and actually deserved to be punished
and note that the furies that would punish him are probably Alecto and Tisiphone
dense crown
sisiphus does mention he wasnt a good man in life in game
coarse stone
Yeah, he also chained up Thanatos
He literally tricked Than and chained him up in the Underworld
I'm actually even impressed that Nyx didn't go mama bear on him
dense crown
i think he says he doesnt see alecto much
light ivy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsaFUEq5UEo I think I saw this linked a while back in this chat and it was entertaining so I wanted to share with you, Guava~
coarse stone
also, the wiki for Sisyphus mentioned the game
supple dagger
is the hitbox thingies for Aphrodite's boons supposed to be invisible? o .o
well, no, lemme rephrase that. Is the visual effects for Aphrodite's Weak things (like the dash and cast) supposed to be invisible?
supple dagger
okay. Because after I got her cast, I DEFINITELY noticed that I didn't see the visual of a "bow shot" like I did beforehand.
the dash, I didn't think too much about. But the Cast wasn't showing up, so I didn't know if it landed on Asterius and Theseus or if the bloodstones were just dropping quickly after dislodging.
God, I think this is the third time I've gotten the "Oh sure" narrated ending. Lmao
It's like Zag never learns
Never dive into a pool of sentient blood
coarse stone
Well he supposedly died from the cold
wouldn't be surprised if he died to a rabbit attack
or random Spartan
supple dagger
hehehe
coarse stone
or a tree fell on him, did it make a sound?
supple dagger
Unrelated, someoen on the subreddit told me to keep dying by Asterius as there's an interesting exchange about getting the Bull's autograph for Hypnos. Started a new run, just to do that, skipped Chaos, and now, I already have 5 or 6 boons from both Aphrodite and Poseidon in Tartarus BEFORE the miniboss chamber. This is... too much of a blessed run. I can't fumble this run now.
Too much work
Did it make a sound? Probably not
it was a dryad
sneak attack
coarse stone
or Zag died to a little girl
That'd be...darkly humorous
Powerful demi-god, can fight his way out of the underworld
only to die to an 8 year old
supple dagger
played tag but like... the wrong way and got his sword/spear taken away from him and stabbed
coarse stone
Played Hide and Seek, Zag is TERRIBLE at that game
There should be one if you romanced Than
Died to Than
supple dagger
That'd be cute
coarse stone
apparently hugs from the god of death in the mortal world
are a bit more fatal than usual
(He then gets a raise from Hades. Who is laughing hysterically)
supple dagger
I support this
coarse stone
or if you romanced Meg, you find out that Meg likes girly things and being pretty
Zag dies teasing her
and his line coming out of the pool? "I should have kept my mouth shut. She's mad now."
That'd actually be funny, and if you romanced both of them
Zag tried to cook for them, they all died.
Than's impressed that death managed to die and Zag managed it
Meg is amused at the fact that Zag can't cook
and Zag aspires to ask Dusa how to not give people food poisoning
ivory sand
The dish? French Onion Soup
He fails because France doesn't exist yet
coarse stone
well technically, it may not exist but the French onion soup really doesn't involve France, so it'd be known as something else
and I'd be frankly confused how one could actually give food poisoning with it
lol
You'd literally have to be very creative and add...interesting things to it tbh
Which in hindsight, might just be up Zag's alley
ivory sand
See they're gods, all they eat is ambrosia and nectar
Food is more a suggestion than anything
That's the big joke, like ambrosia cake no one eats lol
ivory sand
lol
coarse stone
so Meg beat up Zag bad enough that he died
then Than was like "Oh, I wasn't crying. This vegetable is weird."
"Looks like we'll have to wait for Zag to escape. Again."
ivory sand
Turns out, gods are like cats and dogs and onions are poisonous to them
coarse stone
well to be fair
Zag eats an onion in the Erebus zone if he fails it
It's somewhat taunting but yar
junior field
Zag is a demigod
ivory sand
Nah see he doesn't eat it
He just wears it on his belt, which is the style at the time lol
junior field
since Persephone in Hades is a demigod herself
coarse stone
Wouldn't it be called something else
junior field
nah
coarse stone
since Demi implies half
junior field
it's the same principle, he's not wholly divine
Hades even mentions that Zagreus lucked out with the whole immortality thing
minor oyster
Also, as clarification on the character to be added, isn't it most certainly Persephone? @junior field
junior field
surely she wouldn't count
minor oyster
I don't see why not?
junior field
she's just gonna be in the ending
coarse stone
Persephone would probably be a main character of focus
minor oyster
She is a character in the story
coarse stone
she's the end goal though
minor oyster
She isn't just 'the ending,' she is a character in the story
junior field
she's just the ending
coarse stone
so at worst, she'd appear at the ending
junior field
she's not a character you can encounter during your runs
minor oyster
That's probably the silliest way to think about it Zepp
junior field
like Patroclus
coarse stone
since once Zag reaches her, his goal is complete since he wants to meet his mom
minor oyster
They never said the character would be in your runs
junior field
or a god you can find, like Demeter
minor oyster
Just that they're adding one more character before release
Also how are they going to explain Zag going back and leaving hell all the time if the game just ends right there
coarse stone
She also might be the faceless, never found
minor oyster
Seeing Persephone over and over again might literally be it
junior field
have you heard all of Hades' new lines?
minor oyster
You're going to have to be specific, and probably considering I have 40 completed runs since the new update
Or so
junior field
it was one of his dialogues regarding Demeter and Perse
minor oyster
There are more than one of those
junior field
after Demeter mentioned that Perse was her daughter
junior field
I don't remember which one specifically but it was a part of that chain
Zag asks what happened to mum
Hades explains that Demeter is a goddess of seasons
Zag asks if Persephone is dead
Hades asks Zag if he's stupid and wasn't listenting
minor oyster
Not sure how this is relevant when the first time you beat Hades he says "tell her Cerberus is alright"
And yeah Zag is dumb for asking that
junior field
my prediction: Persephone, owing to her mortal side, has aged outside
minor oyster
(tho I don't remember him asking that)
junior field
she's about to die and be reborn
thus, changing the seasons
and ending the eternal winter
minor oyster
Perhaps but that doesn't stop her from being a character in the story
Not sure how that's relevant at all to what I was saying earlier
minor oyster
Once again, how does that prevent Persephone being a character that's going to be added at some point?
junior field
and each time he'd get to spend a few moments with Persephone
minor oyster
This feels like the time I was told I was stupid for saying Demeter would do cold stuff and be a goddess of seasons
junior field
because she's the ending
minor oyster
Instead of saying she'd do grain things
A character isn't the ending, she can be part of it though
junior field
she is the goal you achieve after beating Hades
minor oyster
Also this is getting into vaguely misogynistic territory lol
junior field
come on, the whole point of the game is to get out of the underworld and meet Persephone
minor oyster
I doubt SG will have her simply be some kind of princess peach to be "saved" and end with that
junior field
wtf are you talking about?
minor oyster
And yeah it is, but that doesn't prevent her from being a character
Seriously
So dense
junior field
she's dying outside, you find her, she says "it's ok, son, I'll be back"
and then Zag kicks back because UnDeRwoRlD
and he has to claw his way back, again
minor oyster
That sounds contrived and not nearly as good as SG's previous writing
Both in Hades and other games
I highly doubt that's the ending
I think the whole dying thing may be sketchy to put together at this point too
junior field
how is that contrived?
it makes perfect sense
she's the daughter of a goddess of seasons
minor oyster
Because its really just your headcanon?
ivory sand
The scenario can evolve or be adapted, personally I would like Persephone to be a character and learn about the SG's version of the drama between her and Hades. I want to see what she's like and see her talk to other characters and not just be someone in an ending cutscene
minor oyster
^
junior field
everything that isn't in the game is someone's headcanon
minor oyster
I think that's what they will be going for @ivory sand
SG does a lot of justice with each of their characters and I think they will give ample dialog to Persephone too
ivory sand
I can see where Zepp is coming from
They can certainly set up a never ending story narative to maintain in story "logic" and allow you to keep doing runs after you "beat" the game
minor oyster
I think they will in some form but I don't think it will be for arbitrary reasons, most certainly
ivory sand
Zag gets to meet his mom, circumstance means they can never truly be together though, but love and justive means our boi isn't gonna let that keep him down
minor oyster
They have tried really hard to not make everything up till now feel trivial, and they've talked before about the kind of weight they want the story to have
ivory sand
I could see that, but like I said, I would greatly prefer the other secnario
minor oyster
I am also certain we are getting a full ending of sorts
They have confirmed that
It isn't just going to be status quo
junior field
"arbitrary reasons", like Persephone being locked in a cycle of death and rebirth, and Zag having to break out of Hades each time he wants to chat with his mom cuz his dad is an ass
ivory sand
In that type of story I see it more as Hades wants to protect Zag in his own grumpy way
ivory sand
Presumably, he actual loves Persephone for real, so for him, never really being able to be with her for real could be painful enough that he just lets her be free from the underworld and he projects that pain onto his son out of his own trauma and fear
minor oyster
I mean Hades is certainly trying to protect Zag in some way and I thought that was simply the mortal world - he constantly alludes to how 'bad it is out there' and with Demeter we know why: its literally a frozen hell.
Zag has been given NO confirmation he will even be able to find Persephone
Now SG has said they will give us a real ending so I assume we will
But the thing Hades is protecting him from might be people
junior field
I don't remember, was Persephone's letter voice acted?
ivory sand
That part is interesting to me, since originally Demeter has forever snow until perse was released
hollow mortar
It was voice acted
ivory sand
But obviously she's not in Hades, soooo why the long winter?
junior field
by Persephone?
ivory sand
Makes me real curious to see how it plays out
hollow mortar
Yeah
minor oyster
@ivory sand In this version of the myth, Demeter doesn't know Pers went to Hades, let alone had a child, and then left
junior field
@ivory sand because she did not return to Olympus, to her mother
and that was the deal with Hades
minor oyster
So she's mourning Pers's loss to, probably some mortal
When instead it was our old man Hades
junior field
1/3 of a year with Hades, rest with Demeter on Olympus
minor oyster
So the only person who probably knows where she is is Hades himself
He's the only one with context
Maybe the goddamn Narrator does too tho
junior field
Thanatos said she's not dead, didn't he?
minor oyster
Mr. Spill the beans 😂
hollow mortar
Nyx said so @junior field
@junior field
minor oyster
Yeah Charon has a large hand in that
There is a dialog about how Charon is basically the only reason the underworld works at all
junior field
oh man
I just realized
the reason Charon can't talk is because he doesn't have a tongue
he has a coin in his mouth
minor oyster
Lmao ye
ivory sand
I wonder if Narrator will ever be an actual dude we meet like Bastion
ivory sand
Oh neat, didn't know that
junior field
it looks like a generic hairy greek, no way of telling which philosopher
minor oyster
Narrator is a character in the story, but I think he's just totally disembodied
Also you can't get a bust of Charon iirc
Are you talking about the Bloodless sculpture?
supple dagger
Doubt it
atomic forge
I think a theory is that either the bust or the narrator is Homer.
minor oyster
Are you talking about the poet?
That's another bust
Or rather, "Bust of an old man" -distinguished poet yada yada
junior field
that's the narrator, yeah
distinguished future poet
so Narrator most likely recalls the myth of Zagreus
atomic forge
What's the timeframe? It's some several hundred years after Achilles's death.
That was around the turn of the 12th century BCE.
wicked pier
@atomic forge I think they are taking liberty with the timing, since the game occurs long time after the trojan war (achilles and patroclus are both dead for a while) Persephone and hades is implied to be very recent for the game, around 10 years? Which should also be the start of the endless winter. But endless winter happened long before trojan war, since they already have established seasons (along with winter) by the time of the trojan wars.
golden agate
i dunno if its been mentioned yet, but i finally got to the part where you can have relationships. ive maxed out thanatos, and just got to meg at that point. does this game do polygamy or does it have consequences? id feel bad for thanatos if it does >_>
solar depot
golden agate
woohoo! i just didnt want any penalties. i know gods are usually polygamous, wasnt sure how it worked for zagreus
atomic forge
bleak osprey
zag has two hands and a big heart 
supple dagger
Using these legendary keepsakes during specific rooms are hilarious. Summon Skelly in a SECOND Thanatos room.
"who is this?"
"oh, hi, Thanatos. Big fan!"
light ivy
oh my god does that actually happen
do they really have dialogue for using boons in rooms like that
junior field
they do
supple dagger
I've had Meg summoned during a Thanatos room too, I think. He asked why she was helping me. And then there's Dusa.
atomic forge
iv had meg go, Hail king of Athens! during that fight.
golden agate
it happens with angry gods too. i angered poseidon, and used his call. zagreus said it was awkward XD
coarse stone
Zag can be an effective troll
burnt harbor
Speculation Alert: The reason Thanatos, Ares and the Furies are so busy during the game is because ||It's set during Alexander conquests||
open berry
if you summon thanatos against meg than's like, dont make me do this, and meg yells at him that hes not authorized to be there
theres a few fun ones with than and theseus too
one of the ones i got with meg during a thanatos room was meg asking, dont you have enough help?
hollow mortar
I love how they threw quotes like that in battle
burnt halo
what are the than vs theseus quotes you got?
coarse stone
also I think there's a quote from Meg
if you encounter Than before her boss battle
summed up as "I'm going to have a chat with him for helping you."\
Zag replies "mmk, it'll be fast then and you can have all the time you need to chat"
open berry
than usually just addresses theseus with what comes off as a sort of mock politeness (Hail, King!, Remember me, O King?, ect), but one of funnier theseus quotes ive heard was asking what death was doing there in a very incredulous voice
coarse stone
lol, "Just helping my boyfriend. Now would you stop giving me a headache?"
Or what if in the Theseus and Asterius fight, any companion summon lasted the whole fight
Skelly would probably demand that Theseus gave him his worst. Than would just want them to shut up. Meg would snark and start punishing them. Dusa would help them clean up their act...figuratively and literally.
burnt halo
sisyphus just throws a brick at theseus, basically
coarse stone
Sisyphus would just be like the Wizard of Oz. With Bouldy being the house and Theseus being the Wicked Witch
open berry
gonna be honest, game is sorely lacking in ares and thanatos interaction (but of course the olympians are only supporting characters). i like that they are confirmed to be politely professional with one another but it would be nice to see ares remark on that whole 'having to rescue thanatos when sisyphus tricked him and held him captive and ares got angry mortals couldnt die anymore' thing
bleak osprey
that theseus quote is my absolute favourite from him entirely because of how shrieky he gets compared to his usual self
open berry
oh yeah ive seen that one mentioned but i havent had it come up myself yet.
its definitely more amusing bringing thanatos to theseus than any of the other choices because theseus has such a stronger reaction
chilly flume
helloo um can i ask something here. i have both than and meg maxed out on nectar but its never quite initiating the quest to unlock ambrosia for them...what do
bleak osprey
if you've given them all the nectar you can, then unfortunately from there it's just random
chilly flume
oo i see, thank you !!
open berry
for than iirc you have to make sure you beat him when he shows up and it should eventually trigger. meg is definitely more rng
chilly flume
beat him several times alrdy yea :/ oh well more reason to play
open berry
it should pop up soon
chilly flume
thank you for helping <3
fiery flower
is there a canonical reason why Asphodel is lava everywhere?
drifting citrus
the river of flame overflowed
fiery flower
🤔
zenith leaf
because fire level
shadow glacier
Does Meg's Legendary Keepsake quest require you to have Extreme Measures on?
atomic forge
Yes.
thorn compass
Note kept
shadow glacier
That would explain things...
fiery flower
He defied death.
light ivy
thank you guys for the info on the companion summons! and oh my god that voice line is amazing thank you so much for sharing it @bleak osprey
Yeah the two stage boss fight is one of those "How did I not see this coming?" moments for me
fiery flower
Inb4 stage 2 Hades wield an electric guitar instead of the fork and start blasting music at you.
atomic forge
Second half of God of the Dead is my favorite thing Darren has ever written.
pale grail
I cant even remember Hades phase 2 music, the fight was quite stresful
short vault
cerulean lodge
But there's 3 phases in the music and only 2 in the fight itself 
pallid crag
...for now
restive elk
I'm honestly scared of what grim future will bring EM-Hades.
spring needle
Mecha Hades ala Wolfenstein
atomic forge
||Third phase.||
daring jacinth
You're scaring me Anakin...
haughty carbon
Next up:
New Heat setting: Hades has a chariot, adding another phase!
minor oyster
he already summons a damn chariot half the time when I kill him
haughty carbon
Well now he will be riding the said chariot!
minor oyster
inb4 theseus has a race with him
nova tendon
hey guys, on some of my characters i've got "learn more by deepening your relationship with..." such as meg and dusa. How can i do that ?
cerulean lodge
Give em nectar
Then time passes and they'll want ambrosia
Then you can romance 
Also, story is kinda designed around Zagreus romancing every possible option, so be not afraid of negative outcome while doing so. Fresh em all with sweet nectar and ambrosia.
cerulean lodge
Do that be4 talking mostly
If you already gave them enough of nectar - just continue talking to them till their personal task appears.
Duse requires lounge upgrades, Meg is faster with EM modifiet
heady rain
regarding dusa's romance, does it matter if you take the ambrosia back or ask her to keep it?
haughty carbon
Nope! Either way she is fine.
heady rain
what about the other romances? like if you wanna stay normal, will you have the option of going back to romance later on or is it locked?
haughty carbon
I think it locks into being a non romantic relationship after the choice or romantic, depending on what you pick.
heady rain
cause i was wondering if you could have the option of re-romancing because than's portrait post-romance is... uhhh
atomic forge
Any tips on the final boss' 2nd phase urns? They one shot me on 400% trap heat runs :c
deep spoke
Don't get hit by 'em, I guess? Of all the things in the Hades fight, they're the ones I've always been the least scared of.
His spear is pain, his blast wave is pain, his lasers that can come out before you're in cover are pain, but the urns... are just kind of there if you goof
restive elk
not with +trap damage they dont.
spring needle
you can trigger them manually
by attacking them
anything would do
shield throw, cast, bow, anything
wintry bane
is it just me or is the guan yu spear the best weapon at the moment life steal is so strong
restive elk
I love how it went from "WHy it's even here" to the best in the game.
spring needle
am I wrong or just a few hours ago someone said "the health hit is too much"
deep spoke
@restive elk I mean, it applies if you get hit by it.
And yeah, usually, just attacking the thing works unless you're using something like sword with the double hit special, in which case... cast, I guess
spring needle
if you have +dash you could just zip though it
the trap actually has to first reach full size and then trigger
so you could comfortably charge through it
whole path
Has anyone used Demeter's Call on Hades? I'm curious as to what his comment is since she's basically his mother in law
lunar kiln
he calls her a witch
something like "that old witch is still making the weather worse"
deep spoke
sounds like a common relationship with the in-law
bleak osprey
Demeter had best stay out of my affairs!
That cold witch worsens the weather still?!
spring needle
remember Theseus when he get reduced to 50% hp and he do an epic "I call for your help gods"? if you use a call and hit him when he do that he will go "gods, why?"
bleak osprey
even better, if you use dionysus's call against theseus there's a chance he'll be like "is this because of ariadne???"
spring needle
I'm not well versed in Greek mythology, what's the deal between him and Ariadne?
I had him taken offense to me having a Ariadne yarn ball before
lunar ibex
anyone have some suggestions for a 32 heat run
whole path
That yarn ball is how he was able to slay astrrus in the labyrinth
spring needle
bruh
bleak osprey
well - ariadne is the daughter of the king of minos, and she fell in love with theseus and gave him the ball of yarn so he could find his way out of the labyrinth after slaying the minotaur
spring needle
so why the beef
bleak osprey
i'm getting to it, my dude
spring needle
no pun intended
bleak osprey
theseus took ariadne with him when he left, and then for reasons (which vary between versions of the myth) he ends up abandoning her
deep spoke
ROFL
bleak osprey
most versions of the myth say that dionysus was either already married to ariadne when she went off with theseus, or married her after theseus abandoned her
deep spoke
all these subtle ways to own Theseus for being an ass
spring needle
nice
whole path
I'm surprised there is no comment from either when you use Posidon's call or blade against Asterius ....given their............ unique history
bleak osprey
dio mentions it if you have a yarn when you find him
Why you've a Yarn of Ariadne right there, Zag, I know the lass for whom that yarn is named! She was a right attractive one, we had our little time, long story, though, will save it till you get here!
whole path
Since Posidon is the reason Asterius exists
bleak osprey
poseidon does mention asterius actually!
||Ohh, Nephew, you've stood against the Bull of Minos, have you? Well I must apologize for any inconvenience there, because, he was a living testament to my revenge. Long story, boring really, rather sordid, too. Stay strong!||
whole path
Nice......and hardly a boring story
But yes absolutely a living Testament to his revenge
I use the orgin of the Minotaur as the example of the terrible things the Greek gods did when they got mad
opal dagger
might be spoilers so I decided to post here. A while ago nyx would have a "!" to talk to her and twice in a row after through two runs she said something along the lines of "the secret to your destiny lies beyond these walls."since it was a result of a "!" and happened twice without any further comment from Zagreus I wasn't sure if it was a bug or if there was some significance to it. Thoughts?
whole path
I don't think you should have gotten it twice....but Nyx knows stuff about you you don't know at the beginning....maybe the game just hiccuped and forgot that you talked to her
opal dagger
ok then
heady rain
so interestingly when i took a lot of demeter boons hades mentioned demeter specifically... does this apply to all other gods as well if you take a lot of their boons in one run, or only demeter because demeter is persephone's mom?
whole path
He mentions all of them when you use the call...and remarks about several the first time you face them with a weapon
bold niche
My friend recently got realliy interested in the game, its story and lore. She hasn't finish the game yet, but she wonders, if there will be anything about Leuce the nymph. Not a very famous character, but quite significant..
basically Hades fell in love with her, abducted and took to the underworld, and when she died, she stayed at Elysium in a form of white poplar. Since then white poplar leaves became a sacred symbol, mentioned many times, for example, in a crown of Herakles. She was an oceanid, most beatiful of the nymphs and also related to Persephone as a goddes of regeneration..
well, maybe there is something unknown in the game already, but my friend and I found nothing about her yet. Not a word, no white poplars in the Elysium. Maybe, in the future updates?
bold niche
maybe there was a discussion that we missed.. or something
limber wadi
finally got the thanatos scene 🥰
shy solstice
@lunar ibex what do you mean suggestions? For a build?
heady rain
@whole path i don't mean when he talks about them during a full bar call
it's different, it was in the introduction scene
topaz hollow
I have feelings the full game will end with extra story VS Zeus and the Olympics gods
pulsar cypress
@bold niche I’d say add it to the #hades-feedback maybe they’ll add it in
kind canopy
quick question if anyone's alive
does meg have something special if you beat her with no mirror upgrades after she tells you the mirror dialogue?
junior field
at most, it could be a single line about beating her without upgrades
fair light
That search result is outdated and she should acknowledge it now. If she doesn't it's a bug that can be reported with F10.
supple dagger
God, I hope I don't come off as I'm gloating... but new run. Spear this time. I pretty much gotten a boon from 4 different gods that change my basic Attack, Special, Cast, and Dash and I already had two different options for duo boons. That is normal? Because I was use to that happening much later into the game, like Elysium or even a few chambers before the Hydra boss.
lunar ibex
@shy solstice haha yeah I shoulda been more specific
It’s not the norm but it happens. I had the duo that gives minimum epic rarity on like the 3rd room before. If you look at the wiki you can see all the boons you need to choose to get the duos and the legendaries
atomic forge
Super early rare Duos happen sometimes, @supple dagger
supple dagger
Ah okay. Just wanted to make sure. This run was feeling like the last one, where I managed to get 5 or 6 boons before leaving Tartarus. That was wild.
And then I managed to get interesting dialogue from Theseus and Asterius because I purchased a yarn ball before the fight.
atomic forge
There are several dialogues.
supple dagger
I'm probably missing a bunch, but that one where Theseus almost upsetted Asterius...
iron flame
He's always had a second stage! 😄
pure root
first time i got there lol
iron flame
You'll get him next time! 💪
tame bronze
Thanatos just deleted Theseus off the map in probably the most theatric way possible I wish I had screenshot it but I was too busy looking at my screen with a POG look on my face.
white marsh
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/626508351341330432/674385951471960064/unknown.png grandma pls
young vine
some weird implications if Zagreus is indeed The God of Blood
junior field
because he could create someone out of blood?
fiery flower
The furies came from spilled blood of the Titans, so it made sense you get the blood when you kill them
same goes for Hades
🤔
actually could one extrapolate and say that the blood of the titans is attracted to Zag?
junior field
it's attracted to the weapons
that's why they're down there, because the Titans are still stewing in Tartarus
they hunger for their blood
main gulch
Heresy detected
fiery flower
Ambrosia for the blood god?
junior field
and since ambrosia tastes like whatever you want the most, it must taste like blood!
burnt harbor
For me Ambrosia tastes to ||Theseus' tears||
main gulch
to me ambrosia tastes like ||increase time limit for tight deadline 2 in elysium||
sharp axle
For me ambrosia tastes like marshmellows and oranges
calm geyser
For me, ambrosia tastes like love and affection. Why do you have to be so mean, Hades??? Zag's trying his best. T_T Let me throw some more nectar at you already.
eternal briar
how to unlock guan yu aspect spear?
tame bronze
Talk to Achilles
hazy grove
You have to talk to Achilles to unlock Guan Yu in the menu. Then it costs 3 Blood to actually open up.
junior field
you only need the first level, which cost a total of 5 bloods
low blade
To me, ambrosia tastes like more gifts and decorative items to get for best boi Cerberus
main hearth
ambrosia tastes like the first time walking into the Theseus + Asterius fight with Desperate Measures enabled on the Pact of Punishment
fiery flower
Ambrosia tastes like napalm in the morning, or night, or whenever it is
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAQ57xNQ32w&t=2s
I love explosions and that run gave me what I wanted.
supple dagger
Me: randomly decides to do further reading on Nyx
Me: "so does Hemera exist in the Aether?"
Honestly, just those two things alone would be pretty interesting, assuming there was ever an expansion to continue through the mortal world to Olympus and, instead of going down to Erebus, you go "up" to Aether, where Hemera is just like "hello, son of Nyx." (I know they most likely just go back the father, but Hemera wanna be Different™️)
worldly finch
Can anyone help with Megs Keepsake? I have all her nectar hearts filled and the next heart has the little clock icon on it. Her description is filled out fully, and it says "deepen your relationship to learn more" -- and I"m not sure what to do.
deep spoke
sounds like it's timegated, keep playing and talking to her as much as possible?
and/or try the Extreme Measures pact
I heard EM is required to progress her
worldly finch
Hmm, yeah I have been using that
deep spoke
May be a matter of time then
worldly finch
Fair enough, it's been a while but I guess that could still be it.
Not super concerned, but I was wondering if I was missing something key
spring remnant
I'm in the same boat as you. I maxed her hearts a while ago and have been running EM for about 25 runs now making sure to always talk to her back at home. I don't think it's a bug necessarily but it is quite strange.
worldly finch
Yeah sounds about the same here too.
spring remnant
at least in the meantime my bromance with thanatos can proceed uninterrupted 
worldly finch
lol. Do you have her sisters lore's finished? I don't yet.
and I'm wondering if that's the key
spring remnant
ooooh good question, not sure about that. Definitely worth looking into at least
I wouldn't take the wiki's info as the final word, but it does suggest some promising stuff:
"After a random number of encounters with the Furies, Megaera will approach Zagreus in his room, and tell him that she's only stopping him from escaping because she has to. (This requires her to have first been in his room to collect her belongings.) After this interaction, Megaera can receive Ambrosia the next time she is met in the House of Hades.
It is NOT necessary to enable the "Extreme Measures" condition of the Pact of Punishment."*
so, "random," and knowing my luck, random is an integer between 1 and 1,000
deep spoke
Did she already enter the room, though
spring remnant
she did for me I'm pretty certain, it was a long time ago though at this point
tbh it's not a big loss for me. Bouldy is the only companion I ever want to take with me 
worldly finch
Yeah she's been in my room to collect her belongings.
Whenever you get a chance to check @spring remnant I'd be interested in her sisters entries in lore for you. I really am wondering if they need to be filled out first. And it's not exactly random.
Feel free to @ me 😄
golden socket
I just noticed that the companions have greek letters on the tags
from left to right, it's alpha, beta, gamma, delta
haven't seen Dusa's but I assume it's epsilon
fiery flower
it's epsilon
atomic forge
ok
primal cipher
Hey, I'm really close to finishing my fated list. But Chaos won't offer 'Defiance'
Any advice? Or just do more runs with higher heat to loose more of my own DD faster
graceful wharf
main gulch
You need to have one chaos boon already for them to offer it
primal cipher
Ok awesome thankyou
lunar ibex
@fiery flower haha nice. and you even had a full call handy. I had a run the other day with rail heat 20 I think that was the easiest run of my life. Everything just melted. I think I it was aspect of eris, rocket bomb, cluster bomb, and then crit chance up boon on special, multiple special damage increases on special, the chill on attack... was the first time I actually felt bad for hades
rapid kayak
I was trying to finally get that 36 heat run today and Hades just casually smacked me for 170 damage in one sweep. I didn't even have Boiling Blood on me.
My man'd had one time too many.
lunar ibex
😦
May I ask the reason for 36?
Does that avoid darkness and timed runs?
darkness limited and timed runs^
dim oriole
damn this swiftly passing chariot that takes away 2 death defiances from meeee
rapid kayak
36 was just gonna be my personal best, nothing special about it
fiery flower
You run behind the chariot and wack him
rapid kayak
I already have 35
170 damage, no counterplay, nerf Hades 💢
But in all honesty, Asterius and Theseus are still harder than Hades
fiery flower
Shave him. The source of his power is his beard 
.
Yea. Large arena. The bull can offscreen you with multiple attacks on top of being able to outrun Sonic.
deep spoke
Out-turn Sonic, too
rapid kayak
Word
fiery flower
Amen.
rapid kayak
This run also happened to be the one where they get new armor
So I had to deal with Fidget Spinner Asterius
deep spoke
Stupid spear throws. Divine cheese on speed dial. And the fact that his hurtbox on the shield is busted in some unholy way.
rapid kayak
That was fun
fiery flower
Fidget Spinner Asterius
Galactic Beyblade Asterius.
deep spoke
Depending on who you ask, it's just straight up 180+ degrees or desynced with his turn animation
fiery flower
Alecto got nothing on the the bull in exoskeleton.
deep spoke
Hades also has the weird desynced hitbox on the spear
fiery flower
Holup
deep spoke
Hydra feels easy because it doesn't cheese its hitboxes
fiery flower
so all that time I thought I dashed but still got hit wasn't me failing to "git gud"?
fiery flower
inb4 the SGG canonize the Fates messing with hitboxes.
main hearth
idk how much of the spear spin is janky vs underestimating its range. as the last fight in the game it is difficult to get a lot of practice with it
deep spoke
At least. I'm not 100% sure, but I am reasonably certain.
I've gotten rekt by it just enough to be relatively certain it's more than a simple punish
fiery flower
I thought about my kb's latency at some point 🤔
deep spoke
Either some frame desync or outright being bigger than its indicator
main hearth
i've i-framed the whole attack with just two dashes but then also dashed out of visual range and got hit and felt maybe i was just like a couple frames off with the i-frames
deep spoke
Same, Veritas
fiery flower
Someone with 240Hz monitor can probably do a better job at frame-by-frame analysis of the spin 🤔
main hearth
the only attack that feels actually janky to me is the head slam thing in the elite gorgon fight when it lands
feels like that hitbox lingers
fiery flower
with or without the red wave?
with red wave it's pretty janky yea
whenever it landed it felt like the game changed speed.
fiery flower
them spikes
deep spoke
Basically designed to shred Heightened Sec players
main hearth
heightened security has entered the chat
deep spoke
And even normal players who don't realize the spikes in the corners are nearly invisible, but still there.
Like me.
main hearth
Alecto feels way harder than the other two furies
and Tisiphone is a bit of a pushover
fiery flower
I felt the opposite
I can't time Tisiphone's attack at all
the 3 phase thing trips me off
whip, not dashing, then dash, and then one final misc attack
fiery flower
Yea
brisk valley
i hate theseus so much
i already hate the shield enemies in elysium and theseus is just so much worse
at least he actively turns around so you can get shots in but :|
he's not necessarily hard either.. just really annoying
violet hull
He's a large reason why I appreciate circle AoE effects like Ares' cast. Demeter's new casts are also pretty nice for him.
Damage over time is also good on him, like blight or razor shoals.
dim sigil
If you can get Dio’s cast, that tends to work well too; large burst damage when he’s winding up his throws
topaz cobalt
Somewhat related to the game, somewhat not, but what is Ixion in Greek mythology and what role does he play in the game? All I can find is that he was convicted to eternal suffering in the underworld for his arrogance, and also was an embodiment of The Sun of some sort. Also Hades in the game refers to him several times as some sort of light. Is he The Sun of the underworld then?
pliant lichen
Ixion was a king who broke the law of the xenia, the sort of golden rule for Greeks which insisted you must be a kind and gracious host as your visitors may be Gods in disguise, and was eventually punished by Zeus for several crimes. He was to marry another king's daughter but wanted to avoid paying the bride fee, so he killed her father by burning him alive. Despite breaking the xenia, Zeus took pity on him (I forget why) and brought him to Olympus. Ixion then tried to seduce Hera. When Zeus caught onto this, they morphed a cloud to look like Hera and that is who he slept with. I believe their union brought about centaurs. For boasting about sleeping with Hera, Zeus chained Ixion to the sun, condemned to forever spin through the sky on a burning disk. Later he was moved to Tartarus and still resides there on a flaming wheel. The only time the wheel stopped was when Orpheus played a song while coming down to Hades to rescue Euripide.
I haven't heard them mention Ixion the game as of yet, but it's possible the game refers to Ixion as the sun for the underworld, Greek myths tend to have several different iterations, so he could be condemned by Zeus to be the underworld's sun rather than the overworld's.
topaz cobalt
Well, that's a good chunk of information I've read, thanks!
pliant lichen
Anytime! Ixion's Wheel is also a writer's term for something, but you'd have to ask someone else as to what specifically.
If I had to guess, it'd represent the futility of stopping something, as Ixion's Wheel spins for eternity.
topaz cobalt
I haven't heard them mention Ixion the game as of yet
Hades says something like "Isn't the light of Ixion bright enough for you?" and "The light of Ixion is bright enough!" when switching lighting in the house. There's also an item named 'The light of Ixion' that guarantees a chaos gate ahead.
pliant lichen
Ah, that would by why! I've ignored most of the renovations side from chamber upgrades.
flint sapphire
idk if its just me
but it just feels like everytime i bump the heat higher and higher
i just get less boons every run
like they feel scarce
pliant lichen
Then if I had to guess, Hades has Ixion's wheel soaring through the sky of the underworld, rather than it being our sun or a wheel fixed in the depths of tartarus.
I've only bumped the heat to 8, so I'm unsure if heat equates to a decrease in boon frequency.
zenith leaf
it doesn't, although on high heat i do end up with far fewer boons just bc of the need to pick up centaur hearts
on low heat i reroll every heart but that might just be a me thing
flint sapphire
how do u maximize ur rerolls
cause everytime i do it
i just get darkness or nectar
zenith leaf
darkness, nectar, keys, and gemstones can only reroll into each other
hearts, poms, money, and boons can reroll into each other
flint sapphire
ahhh okay
zenith leaf
you're also more likely to get what you want if there are more exits since you can't have the same reward on two doors
like if there's pom/heart/money you can get a boon guaranteed
also find that some gods roll into other specific gods although it seems like that became less of a sure thing a few patches ago. like it used to seem guaranteed that aphrodite would always become an artemis or an ares
topaz cobalt
@pliant lichen , he has a line about him irrelevant to the house contractor, something like "You don't know how good you're here under the light of Ixion".
pliant lichen
Fair enough! I guess when you recognize most of the names, the various lines don't tend to stick around in your head.
supple dagger
I still laugh at Hades' reaction to a Boulder Drop.
fiery flower
You don't know how good you're here under the light of Ixion - Said the vitamin D deficient god.
pliant lichen
Just talked to Bouldy for the first time. What a swell guy, and quite the conversationalist!
calm onyx
how do you talk to him? just give nectar to sisyphus?
pliant lichen
I believe you just need to speak with Sisyphus enough. He makes a comment about how Bouldy is a good friend because he listens. Then the game gives you a prompt to talk with Bouldy yourself.
supple dagger
And then Bouldy sometimes gives you blessings
calm onyx
i've never seen thanatos in a run, are there any prerequisites to finding him or is it just RNG
dense crown
he cant show up in the first 16 runs iirc
eternal briar
jlk;j;
oh whurps
@pliant lichen u need 6 necters to give him
then i spoke to hades about siphylus escaping
but on reddit it said i need to speak to meg but she wasnt in the lounge
so fml
oblique kelp
Can you only romance one person?
tiny sequoia
You can romance more than one person
drifting citrus
you can be polyamorous if you want!
thorn compass
Just like his father uncle Zeus
drifting citrus
i agree
pliant lichen
Shout out to Patroclus, the real OG to saved my winning streak by replenishing all the death defiance I lost during this high heat run.
Also Dusa is best girl
tame bronze
Than and Meg were getting along and talking and smiling and I can't words.
knotty turtle
I FINALLY got the second conversation with Meg do I can get some ambrosia going
atomic forge
I actually managed to get Hypnos that autograph he wanted, and now i feel bad, because Theseus just offers you his, and seems genuinely hurt when you say no.
coarse stone
and the fact that Hypnos doesn't want his autograph (or anyone else wanting it to be fair), is a real ego crusher. And he has a lot of ego to crush 😛
atomic forge
Theseus is annoying, but lovable. sort of like Naruto. except well written.
His arrogance and boisterous behavior is endearing.
marble gull
at least he's straight up
hypnos gives your tactics to hades later in the story apparently
open berry
theseus has only been rude, arrogant and downright unpleasant through most of your interactions, so it's really no surprise zagreus brushes him off. theseus is like one of the only people zag genuinely holds any dislike for because of how he acts. i like theseus as a character but zag's disdain is valid
spring needle
Theseus the instagram influencer
or whatever the ancient greek has in place of a social network
dim sigil
Which makes it all the sweeter to hear the crowd chant Zagreus after you beat him
coarse stone
What makes the whole Elysium area sweet is the one single shade being supportive from the beginning <:
open berry
I think you can hear the crowd cheering for zag during the theseus fight before you beat him but idk if that's every time or what
coarse stone
I think you can after every fight. There's just one Shade that supported Zagreus when he walked in before the fight. He's the only one that isn't blue
atomic forge
Persephone isn't dead.
No one in the Underworld has seen her since she left, and she would have come through the pool if she had died.
burnt halo
and, based on the Olympians' ignorance of Zagreus' heritage, (and especially Demeter's attitude), no one on Olympus has seen her either
so she's either captive somewhere or (more likely) in hiding
heady rain
ran off to norse pantheon like kratos did
hot bluff
I discovered there were (implicit) sex scenes. I was surprised about how naturally they blended in the rest of the story.
Hades is like 50% rogue-like 50% dating sim and I love it.
(well it always was actually, but with more and more characters and more and more interactions it is SOOOOO rich and rforjiphj it's incredible)
And clearly BEFRIEND SISYPHUS' BOULDER could be a huge marketing line for the game.
upper vigil
i love how naturally sgg has blended characterization and story into a roguelike
it's good
heady rain
is there a reason why good riddance is called "???" in chamber music selection but it's available to select in the shop?
signal palm
my b, misunderstood that one
primal cipher
I have officially completed all of the fates minor prophecies!
That last run ended with me shooting 14 shock phalanx shots at once that each bounced around the arena
errant mango
Greek gods have a lot of love to share I guess?
What's weird is how ||Aphro comments on Zag/Dusa even though it doesn't go anywhere and they're just friends in the end lol||
I'm glad the storyline ended up being wholesome and not creepy as I had thought. And I actually could relate to a lot of the things Dusa said in the end ||about romance not really being her thing||
sharp axle
Her storyline hasn’t been fully revealed yet. She might eventually get her body back (I’m assuming she used to have one, per normal Greek lore), which might change her mind about certain things.
errant mango
I'd prefer if it didn't go that route, but I guess we'll see
drifting iris
what happens if you take Abrosia back?
errant mango
You get the ambrosia back and that's it pretty much
I don't think the choice affects their relationship
drifting iris
ok thx
heady rain
rip i feel bad for killing meg after romancing her
she said "don't like you" as a death quip
F
lunar kiln
how do you people feel about using titan blood but like a weapon
like
(zag and meg fighting)
zag: pocket blood! (sprinkles titan blood on meg's whip)
meg: what the-
zag: (whispers)
(meg's whip has changed into the worm on a string aspect)
upper vigil
i feel extremely positive about this
demeter's weapon during the titanomachy was her just throwing their own blood in their faces
atomic forge
I get that you prefer the platonic route but I don't really see how it would be creepy if it was or ever becomes romantic.
runic terrace
coffeecrash i dont think she'd get her body back at all, tbh, when she seems so much happier without it? granted im not fully through her route but everything she says abt it so far seems extremely positive
junior field
there is no indication what so ever that she ever had a body
especially if she was born out of the gorgon's blood
runic terrace
true! we know she used to look different, and that it's none of our beeswax how, because shes living her best life currently.
atomic forge
Personally I wouldn't want her to get her body back (depending on the circumstances of her losing it of course), and I'd especially hate it if she got it back just so she could have a romance with zag. I feel like that would be undermining a lot personally.
junior field
how do we know she looked differently?
runic terrace
oh, zag asks her about it and she says its too personal a question!
junior field
that was in regards to her not having a body
runic terrace
and later he apologizes and she says its fine, and something like "this is me now, i like how i am"
atomic forge
^
strong horizon
http://prntscr.com/qyikqj this was a nutty run
runic terrace
in any case, i think dusa is fine as she is, i dont want any changes to the dusa cuz shes just chillin uvu 🙏
atomic forge
Dusa is Dusa and will always be and that means she's great
runic terrace
WOWW
strong horizon
only 16 heat tho
atomic forge
I still haven't gotten past 8 heat 
that's only because I haven't played enough though, I haven't hit a difficulty wall when upping the heat at all
junior field
that's the power of Arty cast
strong horizon
Poseidon sword arty cast is cheesing any heat
i just wanted to see how fast i could go
side note: I love Skellys concern if you whack the statues
junior field
nah, casts can't beat blue shields
strong horizon
I dont use damage control
junior field
kinda makes me wish Dio's cloud did some damage upfront and applied the rest as poison
strong horizon
Distant memories is my most used keepsake i think
since they broke spearhead anyway
junior field
really? I've been using acorn/tooth more
acorn for max hard labor, tooth for every other situation
rapid kayak
I've been using Butterfly all the way up to 34
I thought that would be everyone's go-to
atomic forge
It’s a decent one, it’s just not consistent enough
Or you would want other keepsakes to start a run with
sharp axle
If I was going to use butterfly, then I’d probably be using a ranged weapon, in which case I might want to instead use god keepsakes for the first two biomes, then switch to distant memory on the 3rd biome?
upper vigil
hey real talk, one: dusa's conversation about her body is adorable, two: dusa is absolutely trans
trans icon dusa
whole path
.... She's Medusa, she was beheaded by Persious that's why she's just a head now.....and the thing she "doesn't want to talk about"
Like of Posidon tries to gloss over creating Asterius because he charmed the king's wife to being so in love with the Cretian bull that she had dadelous make her a cow replica she could get in to get it to mate with her, thus birthing the Minotaur
runic terrace
upper vigil
the way she talks about it sounds a lot like she's trans and i like that!
she can be trans And a medusa
runic terrace
yeah! its a good metaphor, imo, for changing how you present to the world and being happier like this
ah same hat
whole path
SSG even does the cutest nod by makeing her the maid
runic terrace
WHAT a pun yess
whole path
Actually Posidon is responsible for her predicament too in the more widely presented Mythology
upper vigil
yeah he's not such a cool uncle is he
i do love trans dusa with all my heart too...........i wonder if that was an intentional thing to throw in for sgg or not
atomic forge
Maybe this could be a question for the next supergiants AMA
upper vigil
haha, maybe! i'll have to ask them that
whole path
Given all the terrible things that happened to her because of how she looked .....it makes sense she a. Is happier without a body and b. Doesn't want anymore suitors
livid lance
I was looking forward to exploring Medusa's past life, but I guess it's not to be
whole path
@livid lance .......that would make for a much more adult game lol
drifting iris
maybe the reason she is happy without a body is because it reminds her of what happened to her body when she was alive!
upper vigil
maybe! but it also resonated with me as a nonbinary person with trans friends
it can be both!
deep spoke
@runic terrace yeet monster girl body positivity though
runic terrace
yessss!!!
lament flame
Yes!
deep spoke
I'm kinda /shrug on trans headcanons, they're sort of just a 'you do you' for me, but I'm just happy that she's happy with being how she is.
hollow mortar
It’s either that or lament it for the rest of her existence 
hollow mortar
The Zagreus defending her from angry momma?
deep spoke
Yes
As great as Nyx is as a foster mother, she holds on to those very traditional notions of "servant etiquette" and hierarchy...
Zagreus obviously doesn't believe in such things. He's an easygoing egalitarian who tries to give gifts to everyone, even the frickin' boulder.
hollow mortar
Can’t blame her when they still don’t know about woman suffrage 
Zagreus sure is ahead of his time
deep spoke
So I figured, it's only natural for Zag to gently guide his foster mom toward more progressive ideas without being pushy or aggressive.
Just... quiet but firm.
hollow mortar
That’d be nice
deep spoke
Be kind, treat the servants like family, appreciate what they do instead of taking it for granted.
Good Guy Zag
ivory sand
Just casually slipping some informative brochures into the flower vase
Next contractor item you can buy
sharp axle
I’m still not sure if Dusa is actually happy with the way she is, or if she’s just trying to cope with the way she currently is. Depressed people sometimes say they’re happy and ok, because they don’t want people to worry about them and/or don’t want to talk about their depression.
hollow mortar
That’s true. It’s free for interpretation, I suppose
upper vigil
i want to believe she's happy, though
deep spoke
I want to make damn sure she's happy, in general. Protecc wholesome gorgon
tame bronze
I'm still working on getting Dusa's companion but finally saved up the 10 diamonds for Sisyphus. I like how each companion has their own unique function.
junior field
it's a shame they're not all equally useful though
tame bronze
Is there like a tier list?
sharp axle
Sisyphus is best for low heat, and people argue about who is best for high heat
atomic forge
I think Sisyphus is best overall.
Battie can't be used in the first or last bosses, I haven't tried Fidi but I'd be surprised if the petrification worked against bosses well, and Mort is very slow.
sharp axle
If you have enough healing and money punishments, then Sisyphus becomes a bit less awesome
atomic forge
Healing, sure, but at max level it's 90 Obols, five times.
sharp axle
I’ve seen skelly used on 32 heat too
atomic forge
You'll probably want to save one for Hades, so it's more like only 360 available Obols, but if you are rocking super high LC you'll want the Obols anyway.
heady rain
down to personal preference
sharp axle
I’ve used Than on 32 heat, but I think I’m the only one, and most other people would prefer Meg
And still some people use Sisyphus on high heat anyway
But I think zero people use Fidi on high heat
atomic forge
I used Sisyphus on my two 32 Heat clears.
upper vigil
my hopes for the last legendary keepsake is that it doesn't have boss/encounter restrictions
as it is 3/5 do
tame bronze
I haven't gotten to high heat yet. I think my highest is 11 or 12 right now. I like using Than to nuke Theseus and sometimes miniboss Styx rooms.
atomic forge
Not a bad usage at all.
tame bronze
The dialogue between Than and Theseus is a touch amusing. There is a slight smugness in Thanatos's tone when he says hi.
dense crown
I always forget about than's companion v_v
tame bronze
I'd give it a try if you haven't used it yet.
sharp axle
Than can hit a lot of hydra heads at the same time, and is good for the Minotaur (especially if you’re stuck with the Minotaur miniboss that has waaaay more HP than the soul catcher mini boss)
Murder boat third wave usually gets a Than drop too
atomic forge
Circle of death that he does when you meet him in rooms for the duel thing
knotty turtle
oh ok
sharp axle
The circle takes a bit to hit, but it’s huge. You can semi-easily get Thesus and the Minotaur in the same circle, during one of Thesus’ rest periods
atomic forge
3.5K damage
tame bronze
It's like a tactical nuke
atomic forge
^
knotty turtle
doesn't Meg's have potential for more than 3.5k, since it's 2.5k multiple times?
atomic forge
I don’t think you can hit the same enemy twice with it ? The faster startup makes it more practical tho
knotty turtle
not sure about hitting twice
I think it can though, as long as the enemy is still in the aoe
tame bronze
Only one way to find out
hollow mortar
Lernie shivers
tame bronze
Lernie: chuckles I'm in danger
trail plinth
so is zag really sensitive about his height or does he just not apreciates asterius banter? jahsahdjakk
tame bronze
I think he is sensitive about his height.
trail plinth
does he says it anywhere? never saw it besides asterius 🤔
main hearth
I love that the hydra's named Lernie after awhile
bleak pasture
Okay, so somebody here suggested the idea that Hades takes place in the modern day underworld. I have a rebuttal to that
The Aspect of Guan Yu debunks that theory
In game, it is said that Guan Yu will be a future wielder of Varatha
Well he was a historical figure who died around 220 AD, so the game has to take place some time before then
pure root
whaaa finally beat the game after 35 hours. and i cant even see his mom!
Also, I kinda hoped that after he beat hadas and goes even higher. That he would fight the other gods that helped in, perhaps betrayed him/killed his mother... would be such awesome fights and... more content!
fading garnet
ivory sand
Good catch on the future thing, I forgot about that
open berry
when you take guan yu aspect to the surface zag even comments, Well, Guan Yu...? Take good care of Varatha for me.
junior field
can't wait to see his send off for the John Rambo rail
atomic forge
"America!" "Did you shout 'America' when you fired that last Bombard?" "Nope. Nuh uh."
junior field
main gulch
Zagreus: First Titan Blood
main hearth
yes
knotty raft
inb4 sword's last aspect is yamato takeru
atomic forge
Nah, gotta be Musashi Miyamoto.
knotty raft
which means the emperor is the current wielder
atomic forge
Oh, wait, I thought we were thinking Arthur and Excalibur.
earnest spindle
Will it make sword actually good?
atomic forge
I've got a 15:30 20 Heat Nemesis clear.
junior field
ok, but how?
junior field
does the crit bonus apply to your dash attack?
atomic forge
Yes.
knotty raft
allegedly kusanagi is actually a cursed sword
junior field
I assume the Poseidon clear also used Double Edge?
knotty raft
and no one has looked at it since the 1800s for fear of dying mysteriously
atomic forge
Poseidon Aspect.
junior field
oh, well, that's less impressive
atomic forge
The Nemesis clear was faster.
minor oyster
poseidon aspect is actually slower than nemesis unless you have god RNG
this is why it took this long for speedrunners to finally give it a chance
junior field
huh?
How is it slower?
You start with Artemis keepsake, get Artemis cast, reroll into Artemis, get Artemis legendary
minor oyster
you think its that easy to just get the dual shot + legendary when its totally not 
junior field
well, I missed a step there but you get the idea
minor oyster
As someone who mains P-sword that is a minority of runs
junior field
I usually get it in Asphodel, and I don't do any RNG manipulation
minor oyster
also getting it in asphodel is quite slow
nem sword is still likely faster if it takes you that long
and dual shot is just as important honestly
and nem sword does a ton of damage, you don't really need double edge to get an good time
atomic forge
It sure as hell helped.
junior field
I've been taking Cleaver or Thrust when playing Nemesis, perhaps I've been doing it wrong this whole time 🤔
minor oyster
yeah its the best non-Poseidon sword hammer for sure
but its not the only good one
world splitter does a ton of damage too, but its real wonky to use
fury slash with the right build is good too i hear but I think that's it
the rest of the hammers are trash except maybe the special one 20% is okay
junior field
fury slash, the auto attack one?
minor oyster
yeah
atomic forge
Flurry Slash is fun.
junior field
the one that locks your damage to 25?
minor oyster
can still crit and is impacted by boons iirc
atomic forge
Both World Splitter and Flurry Slash are quite good with Nemesis.
Cruel Thrust just stinks, the full combo is too slow.
junior field
ok, but isn't Flurry strictly inferior to both Splitter and Thrust?
minor oyster
yeah i'd agree schpoon
atomic forge
World Splitter gets mondo crits, but you gotta be way slower and more careful.
atomic forge
How often are you getting the thrust out without eating damage?
minor oyster
its less about that and more about just taking a while to do the whole combo
rapid zinc
Somebody say World Splitter?
atomic forge
The High Priest!
junior field
but it gives you +40% crit and does +200% damage on its own
minor oyster
on your third attack*
junior field
can't you buffer attacks?
minor oyster
its not bad, its just slow
junior field
hit twice, dash, thrust?
minor oyster
compared to the other hammers
junior field
or does it not work this way?
rapid zinc
In the time it takes you to get a single Cruel Thrust, you can hit with two or three WS Chops
minor oyster
^
atomic forge
Or even more Double Edge stabs.
minor oyster
and flurry gets even more lol
rotund lagoon
Okay
So I just have to say
After playing this game for a pretty long time. I finally made it to Hades last night. I had one death defiance left and I was doing really good
Then I killed him!
And then he came back!
Wow, just wow!
Like my heart was pounding
rapid zinc
He had one Death Defiance left too
rotund lagoon
Lol
He certainly did
I love how he uses the spear
And casts
It's familar yet different too
I hope he gets to use different weapons later on
rapid zinc
He doesn't, but he does have dialogue about his weapon
minor oyster
also I love how caitlin has probably been reading this chat for a while and is like 'yes finally spoilers talk' 
rotund lagoon
I swear I read that all bosses will have 3 varients. Or does he not count for that? Or is having a new weapon too much if a varient?
minor oyster
@rotund lagoon I think now that you've gotten that far you get the ability to unlock new aspects of weapons
rotund lagoon
Actually I had that
I think
I already spent like 5 Titan blood
Actually 6 or 7 I think
main hearth
yeah I sort of expected Hades to have a second phase. as soon as I saw the health bar refill I heard the "Last Stand" soundtrack from FTL in my head
and then i died
rotund lagoon
I was sooooo hyped when he died
I was like "I can't believe I finally did it!"
Then all my hope died
minor oyster
Also the first boss has 3 variants that rotate randomly, the second one's randomness comes from the Hydra head spawns, but the third and fourth have no variation.
However when you unlock the Pact of Punishment you get the ability to turn on a thing called Extreme Measures that adds a new variant to each boss fight (except Hades himself, he will always bee the same) depending on what level you set it to (max of 3). @rotund lagoon
minor oyster
Oh, well we have no clue
rotund lagoon
They said in the final game they plan to have 3 varients for the bosses
main hearth
most of the variation in Hades is "how many skulls does he toss at once" and what he summons during phase 1 splits
rotund lagoon
I think we see that with the Fury sisters already
I can't wait to unlock the pacts
minor oyster
I assume there will be a third Hades phase, hopefully Extreme Measures 4, and then maybe something after him..? I'm doubtful though, I heard it was confirmed there wouldn't be a new biome after Hades 
minor oyster
His theme on youtube has a 3rd phase to it
atomic forge
...Shouldn't Extreme Measures 4 be Hades phase 3?
minor oyster
Oh that may be it
That would be sick
So that would probably be the one and the same
rotund lagoon
What do you think the new weapon will be?
main hearth
im hoping for daggers
minor oyster
I'm hoping for any kind of melee yeah
dense crown
phase 2 but he's invisible and spammier
atomic forge
bad like the sword
drifting citrus
we have three melee vs two ranged
atomic forge
Is my 20 Heat clear a joke to you?
main hearth
the spear is obviously a ranged weapon
minor oyster
Most of spear's builds are ranged
dense crown
whip, scythe, pair of daggers, gauntlets/fist weaponss
main hearth
who even attacks with it
minor oyster
And the best sword aspect is also ranged
And the shield is also mostly a ranged weapon besides Zag aspect
So yeah
Most of the aspects in the game are ranged
main hearth
but I think daggers could be really really fun in this game with how fluid/tight it is
dense crown
either it'll be rangedd so left courtland iss melee and right is ranged, or it'll be pure melee so we have 2 melee 2 ranged and 2 hybriddd (spear/shield)
main hearth
scythe w/ sweet spot mechanics as well