#h1-story-discussion
stiff lark
"Theseus is my favourite himbo" Best thing I've read here
cloud lion
upgrades
junior field
are there heroic versions of Hermes' boons?
cloud lion
Eurydice upgrade might make it happen
junior field
just wondering if they exist at all, wiki's been unreliable in that regard
cloud lion
since you know, if she decides to upgrade all those extra boons
I think so. I should really screenshot next time
dawn ore
Imagine getting 4 extra dashes
cloud lion
always choose 2 random rarity upgrade ever
dawn ore
Wish Eurydice could upgrade chaos boons too
junior field
nah, I often choose levels if I have too many boons
what good is a higher rarity dash and revenge
cloud lion
yeah i usually have just a few boons on when meeting her
just like to see all those heroics
might not be practical sometimes.
junior field
I was actually wondering why there's no rarity boosting room reward
like a pom, but not
cloud lion
wish there's more way to boost the rarity of boons that you already have.
junior field
that's...that's what the new reward would do
pick a boon out of three and upgrade its rarity once
an elite version would upgrade the rarity twice
like pom but for rarity instead of levels
cobalt summit
Hey, is there any way to increase the Farthest Chamber Reached stat in the weapon select courtyard? I've reached Hades three times and lost three times. This most recent time I discovered he has two health bars!!
But my Farthest Chamber reached is pegged to 68
junior field
upside, it can affect non-levelable boons, like Hermes'; downside, it could pick out of your non-levelable boons instead of the levelable ones, like attack/special etc.
cobalt summit
This was the first run I realized I could skip straight to Lord Hades once I have the sack
junior field
mine says 70
really? that's nice
junior field
I guess taking the Chaos/Erebus gates before the pre-boss room would extend the total room count
cloud lion
yeah..
burnt harbor
I honestly love how Zag begins fawning over Theseus and rebuffing Asterius and ends with hating Theseus guts and kinda respecting Asterius lol
vivid knoll
👍
burnt harbor
Like I can see how tired is getting of him
lament flame
I am 100% can relate to Zag lol
cloud lion
^
lament flame
Tho Theseus is funny with all this buffoonery of his
lament flame
If you think Theseus can't be more clown when he already is then behold the chariot
cloud lion
Chariot OF Superiority
minor oyster
theseus is a clown
lament flame
Yiiiis
minor oyster
he's the royal jester for the gods, no wonder they favor him
flint marten
Gods of Olympus, hear me!
lament flame
"Why they can't make up their minds"
cloud lion
every Gods in Olympus: hahahahahaha
midnight sinew
"I would call it a fatal flaw, except, I am already dead."
~ Orpheus
my man orpheus deserves better
flint marten
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/457639241615409173/668493333890334733/unknown.png I know it's not even close to the fastest but huzzah
haughty carbon
It's surely something my personal best is 21 minutes
junior field
you fellas related to Speedy Gonzalez or something? My fastest is 25
haughty carbon
not really just that I have done too many runs with rail so I kind of got used to it
also thanks to tight deadline too
it uh pushes me to do something
junior field
ah, I see you're a man of 3 specials as well
or is it just Hestia and a glued reload button?
haughty carbon
3 specials man I am indeed or spam of special with attack and boon to stack up for additional damage from the 2+ status effects
junior field
I just had a divine Zeus attack rail run
explosive into infinity
into rare attack speed from Hermes
I couldn't see anything on screen but I do believe everyone died
and the funniest thing? I didn't even get jolt.
lament flame
Congrats to both you and Kree
haughty carbon
honestly rail aspect for making all dmg power up if you stand in special's explosion is insane
lament flame
Eris rules
Best rail aspect
I think it may change soon tho if we will see one more aspect for each of the weapons in next update
junior field
I do wonder if they'll rebalance the aspects before the final weapon drops or along with it and the 4th aspects
lament flame
Yeah
loud tiger
Honestly I think it's more likely we'll see a tuning pass after 4th aspect drops
junior field
before the sixth weapon?
static verge
My fastest is 23 min
lament flame
32 min hahaha...ha
lament flame
I am slow but my strategy is always work at least
lament flame
itis
junior field
Poseidon requires too much work
junior field
I had 1 Zeus boon, attack, and it vaporized everything
static verge
I like
flint marten
I didn't manage to get that yet sadly
static verge
Poseidon dash
junior field
Poseidon would need attack, rupture, extra push, and another status
flint marten
I want that and support fire
static verge
Everything else is meh for poseidon
junior field
but Athena dash is superior in each and every way
flint marten
@static verge it's fun to see people that you knock back getting knocked again AND taking tons of damage into the proces
process*
like a huge pinball machine
flint marten
Not really, happened to me in aspho / ely too
static verge
Comparing poseidon dash to athena dash is like conparing some guilty pleasure candy to a cake though
junior field
did you have explosive shotgun by Aspho?
flint marten
I don't really play rail, I think I only have it at 3 heat
It feels too slow for my taste
Aight, max Eris and try to do another Rail run or start pouring into Hestia?
minor oyster
Still got nothing on the speedrunners
static verge
Das fast
formal ivy
junior field
just get strong combos and buffs from Chaos
prime example is Chaos shield with Aphro attack and Dio special, with Chaos special buffs
minor oyster
Even when I do fun builds and see no Chaos its like 18-22mins generally
junior field
I wish I could turn off heat on Hell 
dawn ore
You know what you sign up for when you choose hell
But it's a fun thought that on Hell mode you can reach a point where it's essentially humanly impossible to beat a run anymore
'cause you can't pick lower difficulties
junior field
I'm over a 100 runs on Hell now
dawn ore
Try almost 200
junior field
just wish I could do those sick normal runs
dawn ore
My last 50 or so escape attempts were 32 heat
green jay
multiple save files, keep one for hell, one for normal play
unkempt locust
I posted on discussion group that I don't cheer any character. Everyone looks pretty bland to me
vivid knoll
I can understand zagreus attemps to escpape, I don't understand why the olympian help him so much
dawn ore
Hey man, you almost never touch the mirror in Hell mode.
junior field
they see Zagreus as Hades' replacement
unkempt locust
Bastion had commitment because of the narrator. Got me interested in what was happening. And soundtrack was different
Transistor.. love story. I love love stories
junior field
having a pliable ruler of the dead on your side is extremely beneficial when the majority of your followers are mortal meat sacks that go into the Underworld
unkempt locust
Pyre... Every character wanted to escape. Not all were liked but quite a lot were (Favorite Jodariel)
Not something I can say about Hades (the game), not the character
@junior field good point
Hades, the character, is the only one (probably) who I feel more about than the rest. But even that doesn't feel like enough to carry a game
It has held my attention because
- It's a Supergiant Games' game
- 1st rogue-like
- 1st Early Access game
Unpopular opinion? Definitely. But I want to understand what connects the characters to you
junior field
aight, let's break it down
unkempt locust
Thanks
junior field
Zagreus wants to break out cause he wants to meet his mother, Persephone, who he didn't know existed for most of his life
he was told Nyx was his mother
Nyx knew about the deception, as did Achilles, as did Megaera, as did Thanatos
basically, everyone knew
except for Zag
so now Zag wants out. Nyx, owing it to the dumb kid, decided to help him by calling on Olympians and asking em to lend Zag a hand
Olympians don't know that Nyx isn't his mother
unkempt locust
With you so far
junior field
bloody bot
rotund bane
I put probably 50 runs into Hades before ever touching discord or reddit or anything else, I was new to the genre and to Supergiant's games. I was definitely not playing for efficiency and was really just taking in everything and I'm not sure I fully know where you're coming from.
Might help that I have talked to literally anything that I could talk to
junior field
while most Olympians share the agenda of freeing Zag to replace Hades, some of em are doing it for their own reasons, like Artemis
rotund bane
Consistently and I think that fleshed out more of the story
junior field
or Hermes, who I suspect aides Zag because of Charon
rotund bane
I think we can assume that all the Olympians have ulterior motives
junior field
next we have the house
Meg and Zag had a thing in the past, Zag apparently said something and it all fell apart
my guess, he disagreed with how Hades runs the torture dungeon in Tartarus
rotund bane
I reckon Hermes (who the other gods don't know is helping) might be assisting through Charon on behalf of Persephone herself?
unkempt locust
@junior field Huh? What happened with the bot?
rotund bane
But yeah I think a lot of this really just comes from having to pay attention of every little piece of dialog
@unkempt locust zepp made a swearsie that the bot didn't like 😛
junior field
which aligns with what we learn from Sisyphus' completed codex entry, that the whole gentrified behavior of Zag is a result of their regular chit chats
and that Zag doesn't believe in eternal torment
unkempt locust
I agree. Orpheus and Eurydice is definitely a side quest. So seems to be Achilles and Patrocles
Gods have a hidden agenda (except Artemis)
junior field
I could go on, but really, it's all in the game
unkempt locust
Not sure about her
But still, as a character, I feel I haven't yet understood why Zagreus must humiliate his father so many times
junior field
Artemis, from some of her myths, always valued strength and cunning
rotund bane
I'd call it teenage angst to be honest
unkempt locust
After a time, I felt Zag was being ridiculous with his anger and could probably make a deal with Hades to get to his mother
rotund bane
I don't read as much into his motivations as Zepp personally
Part of the whole hell thing though is that nothing gets out, including Hades himself, it's not like he wants to be there
unkempt locust
Perhaps Zag and Meg can end up together in the end. But don't see that happening organically if only end game needs to be defined
But he did, didn't he? @rotund bane
He came out on Earth
junior field
so she sees Zag's eternal crusade through the Underworld a parallel to her surface hunting fetish
unkempt locust
To get Persephone. To stop Zag
junior field
a fellow enthusiast, if you will
unkempt locust
Could be @junior field
junior field
she's mistaken, of course, but such were the gods, very narrow
rotund bane
Sure he can leave, but he must return as he is bound to his domain
There's actually dialog from Poseidon or Zeus about that somewhere as well, about how he got shafted with the duties down below
junior field
no need for that
Hades states it himself in one of the intros
that he tried to escape, too, but couldn't
rotund bane
That's right, yeah
unkempt locust
I guess what I'm trying to say is that Supergiant Games always had a story which built personal investment from player. Here we have a brat who wants to get out of hell by humiliating his father
rotund bane
I don't see humilating his father as the mechanism
unkempt locust
Last successful run... He sounded so disappointed that I couldn't bear to try another escape
runic terrace
im p sure at some point zag asks hades to compromise by giving him a job on the surface and hades laughs him off, right? been a while, but i remember something like that ...
unkempt locust
Plus, we're destabilizing the entire realm
rotund bane
Hades must try to stop him and places the enemies in his way
rotund bane
@runic terrace There was something about how he couldn't be trusted to even go to Styx at that time, yeah
junior field
I think Zag says something along the lines of performing a job similar to that of Thanatos
and Hades says no
unkempt locust
@rotund bane Yes but why? If nothing can escape, why not let him find that out the hard way?
rotund bane
"Your place is here, boy"
@unkempt locust Because going through Hades IS the hard way
It's also the easy way. It's the only way.
unkempt locust
Yes, that's a father hoping his son would ease his burden (also stated in Hades' codex entry)
junior field
Zag misunderstands Thanatos' duties though
glad lion
Technically we are helping the realm, later on Hades admits that you are helping keep the realm to a higher standard, and helping with the satyrs even incidentally along with all the upgrades to the house. There's more too i think Hades has brought up begrudgingly I cant 100% remember
unkempt locust
Most likely, yes @junior field
junior field
after all, like Hades said, Underworld is Thanatos' place, not Hades'
without Thanatos there would be no Underworld
without Charon there would be no Underworld
rotund bane
Also the story is quite incomplete at this point - you can look at the Hades fight and you'll note it's blustery, snowy and winter. There's the mysterious war that they're discussing.
unkempt locust
I believe Hades is protecting Zag from real horrors of death that Than sees
rotund bane
If Persephone is not with Hades
junior field
but Hades? Even Cerberus could do his job
rotund bane
She's in the world, but why then is it winter?
junior field
because she didn't return to Olympus, to Demeter
rotund bane
There's a lot of unanswered questions still.
junior field
the deal is that she lives in Underworld for 1/3 of the year, and then 2/3 on Olympus, with Demeter
kind canopy
i think hades is just lonely, he just doesn't want to be left alone with all the paperwork
makes sense to me
junior field
since it's been snowing for a long time, it means she didn't return to her mother after leaving
rotund bane
Yeah I expect that if we see Demeter next that much more of the story will be fleshed out
unkempt locust
Do you see my point though? There are some unanswered questions and Hades is a relatable figure to me (making Zagreus' quest even more against my belief) but nothing that makes me cheer Zag
rotund bane
Too many TPS reports @kind canopy
unkempt locust
Essentially, he's a Mary Sue (not sure about term but sure seems to fit here)
unkempt locust
All fathers are strict to their kids
junior field
Zag is the opposite of Mary Sue
brazen wave
Personally I love zag, he's relatable and i'm pretty sure his reactions, to me at least, feel very on point on what I would say in his situations.
junior field
he dies a lot
unkempt locust
Not trying to argue. Just saying my thoughts
junior field
and he learns from his deaths
unkempt locust
@junior field lol
junior field
that's progress, the opposite of what a Mary Sue is, to whom everything comes effortlessly
rotund bane
I just realized I accidentally clicked on the spoilers channel lol I rarely leave feedback or gameplay I wondered why everyone was so hyped about what was going on haha 
brazen wave
also sassy zag best zag, thanks for coming to my TED talk
lament flame
Agree
unkempt locust
As for see his mother, I would like to. But there's obviously something Zag doesn't know. I would rather be aware than end up walking blindly into a trap
@brazen wave agree
junior field
well, that's a mystery that's meant to keep you on your toes
kind canopy
i mean he's snarky and did some questionable things like throwing friends like thanatos under the bus and just up and leaving without saying anything and you can look at it as him squandering the life and friends he has to pursue a lofty goal but i think he's supposed to be sort of a late teen-type character so he's impulsive and makes bad life choices, he's not meant to be perfectly sensible
junior field
I theorized that Persephone may not have given birth to Zag, physically
unkempt locust
Yeah, that's most likely the case
junior field
that Hades had Zag made, either after she left or while she was still down under, out of a piece of Persephone and himself
junior field
which would explain why Persephone's letter mentions Cerberus but not her own son
unkempt locust
So if someone asks me the story, I know how I feel about the overall story. But the main character? 😶
@kind canopy I don't want to relate to everyone. Relating to Zag would be enough for me
I want to cheer for the main character. Can't get my buy-in
junior field
@unkempt locust you tellin me you caught feelies for Pyre's hodge podge catholicism melodrama but not Zag's desire to be reunited with his mother?
because Hades' story is a lot more basic, and I'd say a lot more relatable, for anyone
cause everyone had a mother
unkempt locust
I caught feelings for Pyre in sense that I saw the main group (mostly) came from better life and wanted it back. That meant sympathetic story. Or that they wanted to drive a change for greater good. That made it an idealistic goal. Both I could relate to
junior field
and some mothers were absent, like Zag's
unkempt locust
Here, Zag have a teenage tantrum... Not something as relatable
junior field
he want to see his mommy
brazen wave
it's so much more then just a teenage tantrum though
unkempt locust
I get that he's hurting. But it's not expressed (violence doesn't count here)
junior field
he's not pouting about not being given candy
brazen wave
it's a desire to see his mother, the person who gave birth to him, why did she leave? why did she not come see him? etc
unkempt locust
Yes... That thought. Those questions... I don't see that in the story
brazen wave
he has questions that he feels cannot be answered while he's in the underworld, hence why he wants to get out, or as he sees it, needs to get out
unkempt locust
Zag is not thinking out loud about any of these.
kind canopy
he does tho
brazen wave
but it's obvious
unkempt locust
I don't know what he's thinking about what matters most
unkempt locust
@kind canopy I missed it (or forgot). When?
junior field
whaaat? He says a lot of things in his interactions with Meg, Thanatos, Nyx, and Achilles
unkempt locust
Any other time?
loud tiger
The flashback to the sneaking night made it pretty obvious and iirc that was very early on
unkempt locust
About his doubts? Every conversation I remember is stressing on how he won't stop trying to escape. None thinking of the entire thing on a deeper level
junior field
hell, even from his interactions with Sisyphus it becomes clear that Zag is sort of a hippie
which is why Meg broke up with him
glad lion
Personally I like Zag as a protagonist a lot, The whole game is very much about his personal growth as a person, and a god, and finding his place in all of this, similarly to why Persephone left now that I think about it, In the beginning Zag is kind of not great, even more so before the events of the game from the bits we learns, he can be arrogant, naïve, definitely a smart ass. But In leaving, he's also grown considerably more attached to the other characters. He's grown a lot more compassionate, caring for the different shades and other members of the house. His animosity towards Hades is because Hades is trying to keep him there and stop him from growing his own way, instead Hades wants zag to replace himself, Hades is alone and incredibly sympathetic and I get what you mean, but when left to it Zag doesn't really have a choice but to fight against his own father... Losing my train of thought sorry XD
but hopefully that leads you in some direction to understanding Zag along with what everyone else is saying
unkempt locust
Like I say, I'll cross the world in 90 days and bring my beloved but deceased relative back
I appreciate the sentiment but I need something more to base an emotional connection on
brazen wave
to me at least zag's intentions and motivation are pretty clear on why he feels the need to leave
junior field
I'll be honest, I find that Hades has the best story out of all SG games to date
kind canopy
more like... what?
kind canopy
they all are i would say
junior field
Bastion and Transistor were both about apocalypse
brazen wave
yes, i too have a 3 headed dog and a father that wants to rule the underworld with me
junior field
Bastion's was reversed, Transistor's was inevitable
unkempt locust
Even Pyre was about tragedy (of exile)
brazen wave
jokes 😛
junior field
Pyre was just a mess, it wanted to be too many things and excelled at none of em
kind canopy
well we all know how supergiant games end things
expect zagreus to die
i mean for real
unkempt locust
It's a rogue-like. That's a given
junior field
and the core loop, the basketball game, was simply not engaging
junior field
it's just a ball game
brazen wave
they did say that they were going for a more light hearted ending in Hades though
food for thought
junior field
I could play NBA Jam and listen to an audiobook on inquisition, same thing as Pyre
kind canopy
i don't believe it for a second
unkempt locust
More like... I want to see Zag in self-doubt about whether meeting Persephone is a good idea
junior field
how could it be not a good idea?
unkempt locust
There are sequences where Zag says "I can do this. I can do this. I can do this". I love them because they show his vulnerability
green jay
Hades ends up leaving with Zag on a father-son quest to find Persephone, Cerberus ends up running the under-world with Dusa as head secretary, calling it now
unkempt locust
What kind of mother leaves a child behind?
kind canopy
like i said, bad life choices
junior field
one that didn't know about her child's existence
brazen wave
^
junior field
it's easy twist, seen a mile away if you paid attention
unkempt locust
I just want to see more of an internal conflict I suppose
junior field
but you had to pay attention
unkempt locust
One that didn't know... We can see that. Zag cannot. So why is he not questioning her absence
kind canopy
but he does
brazen wave
he is though
lament flame
...
unkempt locust
Think Hades spoke once or twice about her not to be mentioned
kind canopy
he quite literally asks "mother why did you leave"
unkempt locust
Ah, with so many people on the other side of the argument, I'm feeling the best course of action would be to start a fresh save
kind canopy
just youtube the letter scene again dood
unkempt locust
It's been such a long gap between story events that I don't remember much of the letter scene
junior field
yeah, just YT
unkempt locust
Or that. Thanks @kind canopy
brazen wave
can't wait for the plot twist that persephone is actually trapped inside bouldy
green jay
double plot twist, persephone IS bouldy
that's why zag feels better after talking to it
rapid zinc
Don't kill Bouldy!
kind canopy
i noticed that Demeter is our likely new olympian and i've recently been playing SMT4 final
which also has demeter in it
except
she looks like this https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/megamitensei/images/0/03/Demeter.png/revision/latest?cb=20180527220120
unkempt locust
One last refrain on my stance: Hades' dialog has evoked enough sympathy that I can't relate to Zagreus' quest anymore. If his stance, personal investment (and not something he must do), was more solid - doesn't matter if it's via anger, aggression in interaction, impatience - I would care about his purpose as well as I probably did before
static verge
You mean smt strange journey redux?
kind canopy
right
mixed them up somehow
because started redux right after finishing final
so it's still on my mind
static verge
SJ features doom guy, and 4A features edgy irish arsene
That's how I remember it anyways
kind canopy
4A is the smt persona edition featuring irish smash bros announcer
and strange journey is the real shin megoomi tensay game
those are my mnemonics
kind canopy
it kind of struck me as odd just getting to demeter in sjr right the same day when the update announcement was posted here with possibly demeter
fast garnet
I've tried googling this but haven't been able to find a straight answer yet: are Thanatos and Meg the only 2 characters you can be romantic with so far in the game?
kind canopy
hmm i want to say yes but i'm not 100% sure
fast garnet
ok, thanks!
vivid knoll
Any ideas what boons demeter will bring ? Dou, legendarys, anything ?
unkempt locust
Can someone guide me to a place where I can get an idea on the new symbols for story events (hearts with dots, hearts with lock)?
bleak osprey
the pins in this very channel.
fickle yoke
@vivid knoll i think she may be some special god like Hermes or Chaos
unkempt locust
Ooh
vivid knoll
Damn... I hoped for some new dous...
I hoped hephistos or Hera is the next special god...
fickle yoke
duos?
unkempt locust
Kept searching in Patch Notes but wasn't able to see it. This should be someone more easily accessible (including to people not on Discord)
vivid knoll
A new dou boon ...
unkempt locust
That or I'm really inattentive. Thanks again
vivid knoll
U know what I mean 
unkempt locust
Nothing anymore for now. Thanks
fickle yoke
i'm bad in english so i may misunderstand
sterile python
Was anything official posted about the next patch contents? Someone on Reddit posted something official-looking about the Hydra fight going to two phases with more aggressive heads and no healing items, but I can't find anything saying that in Discord.
runic terrace
do you mean extreme measures? thats already in game
tiny sequoia
EX hydra makes it sound like it used to be a hydra
rapid zinc
Makes it sound like you used to date
granite sleet
I wanna give Than more ambrosia, but I don't know if it means cheating on Meg :c
Not that that's uncommon in Greek myths.
junior field
nope, it's fine
rapid zinc
It does not! They're each aware of your feelings for the other, and you come to an understanding with the two of them and you can date both of them at the same time
bleak osprey
zag has two hands 
granite sleet
Huh. Neato! Thanks for letting me know, I don't want to hurt either of them!
granite sleet
I can, but I also want to max out the bar thing because I'm a bit of a completionist. I'll have to think things over.
coarse stone
Plus if you romance Than after romancing Meg, he flatout says that Meg encouraged him to follow his feelings
So Meg is best winggirl I suppose? xD
karmic vine
well she's got at least one
fickle yoke
Sisiphus has some special line for Tomatos encounter funny
ornate pond
I'm just waiting for the bouldy romance
grim knot
er, meg and zag are a thing?
I think my game bugged out, all the hearts after getting the companion from meg just gave me repeat dialogue
bleak osprey
@full field here's the dialogue you missed:
Thanatos: Good to see you taking little Mort there on one of your strolls. Means I can better keep an eye on you out there. Zagreus: He's been great to have around, for sure. Still can't believe you found him after all this time! You used to always carry him around, I was so sad for you when he got lost. Thanatos: And I cannot believe you still remember that. Regardless, he will not be getting lost again under your supervision, accurate? Zagreus: Accurate.
full field
Yes that's the one. Only read the beginning until my hand started twitching haha
Thanks so much :3
Very cute dialogue 
supple dagger
So I saw a new sprite appear when Thanatos appeared in a run.. and it mildly freaked me out.
junior field
smiling Thanatos?
coarse stone
I'd probably have a heart attack if there was a flirty Thanatos image
drifting citrus
give us winking than
coarse stone
Or come-hither Than
lime orchid
||https://gyazo.com/bfb8713a67c213f797017016310cf757 poor zag xD||
worldly beacon
upon beatinbg the game just now (for the 42nd time) i just got a slightly different screen than i have ever gotten before
what does it mean for it to have said "...GLORIOUS" on the screen where the narrator guy says how you die after the final boss?
lime orchid
dang it ive only beaten it 36 times
worldly beacon
i sent that message then looked at yours right above it lol
seems very similar
does anyone know what that means?
lime orchid
¯_(ツ)_/¯
worldly beacon
it was on i think 11 heat so it wasnt a significant heat amount or anything
ive beaten it on 20
junior field
what was the text? could be a PCMR reference
lime orchid
maybe its random?
lime orchid
o where
karmic vine
the only epic reference is the 'Exclusive Access' boon
supple dagger
Yeah, I think Than was "smiling." He was also, from my perspective, looking at me too/facing forward.
worldly beacon
PCMR? and the text was, as the guy was narrating (do we know who that is btw? did i miss it when i started the game? clearly zag hears him since he talks back in the backstory flashback thing) it was, in all caps, plain white text "... GLORIOUS"
lime orchid
yaeh who is the narrator
supple dagger
I don't think I've ever gotten that one. Or maybe I have. Usually that and screens with Hades speaking, the word is just a "highlight" of the same word used in dialogue. For that one in particular, I'd imagine he narrates something like "We'll remember Zag like one of the glorious heroes of old... whose tales usually end like this:"
karmic vine
the fact that zag can hear him never fails to amuse me
supple dagger
Zag explodes
burnt harbor
If you are not using shield, how do you avoid Hades lasers?
lament flame
Broken Spearpoint keepsake + deflect dash
light garden
Also go hide behind some of the tombstones
There’s a little alcove towards the top and a small structure at the bottom
supple dagger
yeah, there's a structure or two that kinda sits in the middle of the arena that can be used as a shield. However, due to the isometric perspective the game has, the hitbox for said "shield" can vary. So do be careful if the laser looks like it's going through the object.
dusk acorn
you can also use an invulnerability call and just use it when he lasers lol
lament flame
Or if you lucky enough you can get Divine Protection (Athena's legendary) however in case of lasers it's not that useful
odd siren
i think you can also stand directly on hades' hitbox to avoid the lasers? though i've never been good at that. and athena call will interrupt him mid-cast if you need it to
ancient maple
you can also just walk to the side
if you're a decent distance from him, and walk around him, the lasers can't catch up
also the little cranny in the top left corner stops lasers fine if you hide in there
young vine
Just finally took a look at the wiki and learned that Ambrosia is indeed not useless in the current build. (And that it is possible to acquire the last Keepsake! Just haven't seen that renovation yet somehow...)
I feel like it might be worth being a little more explicit about its purpose within game, or even hinting with a little UI icon as to who it has relevance for? Each character I've been feeding my Nectar to timed out with a clock I couldn't progress so I just assumed it wasn't really implemented yet.
frosty fable
Real quick- I think someone mentioned before that you have to lose Than's challenge in order to get past his locked heart level, is that true?
haughty carbon
That is not exactly possibly true as someone else said otherwise, but that's how it was unlocked for me
ancient maple
no, you have to beat his challenge, and evewntually he'll give you some unique dialogue
or apparently it works either way 😛
frosty fable
alright, I'll keep stealing all his kills then 😛
tame bronze
Still his kills out of love.
violet nova
do ambrosia gifts after unlocking people's companions unlock the romance path or just deepen the regular social link?
drifting citrus
if there's an arrow with hearts, it's a potential romance path (which are than and meg)
though i believe you can choose whether or not to date them (and you can date both if you want)
signal palm
when's the dating skelly patch coming out 
brazen pendant
petition to let us romance hypnos
fast idol
Or at least have him take a break
lean hare
crisp sluice
Dusa is GREATEST
pallid crag
im not a fan 😔
lament flame
Dusa is working so hard she deserves some rest
analog crag
maybe she should switch jobs with hypnos. he seems to get plenty of shut eye
restive elk
That's the shut eye that only he can get. Who else can do that in direct view of Hades?
I'm guessing that Zag gives him a lot of additiona paperwork, but not that much...
analog crag
I just died like 5 times so i could give him one last nectar and
are you dying just to talk to me
anyway i agree with the sentiment of romancing hypnos he's a cutie
lament flame
I can't blame Hypnos. Seems like everyone in the House work 24/7
analog crag
doesnt help that he's literally the personification of sleep
restive elk
Last time Than got something looking like a break there were a lot of Gods and mortals equally confused about what's going on.
analog crag
the trouble with every single romance path is that if the character is a god or demigod they're related by blood in one way or another, therefore the only romance options should be skelly, dusa and achilles
duh
lament flame
Than and Meg don't related to Zag
analog crag
well
their parents are nyx
who is born of zagreus' great grandfather/mother chaos
wait... great great grandfather/mother
which means they're cousins of some sort
oh yeah technically nyx would be zagreus' uhhhh lets see... great great great aunt
the point is that everyone in the greek pantheon, including zagreus, is technically related
including the furies and thanatos
etc
lament flame
Maybe maybe
analog crag
i know too much about obscure greek gods. like aether, who's just the personification of the air on mount olympus
why does he exist? who knows
he just does
anyway they should add in momus
the god of complaining
zealous linden
Who's gonna be the next god btw ?
lament flame
It's 99% is Demeter
loud tiger
Cornucopia is a big hint
Unless it's just a silhouette trick and it's really something else entirely
analog crag
jokes on you, it's actually... i cant remember any of the gods that are remotely similar to demeter
analog crag
but also if she was an olympian that would destroy the point of the story
oh look i got a text from mum
loud tiger
Persephone is the entire reason for Zag wanting to leave the underworld so that would be awkward as all hell
analog crag
"hi zag im doin fine"
opaque narwhal
Yes, this is true, but they're similar in domain I think.
analog crag
"meet your new dad, erebus. nyx hates me now, visit when you can"
loud tiger
Greek mythos voicemail
lament flame
I can't wait to see what is behind that silhouette. I mean the design of Demeter
signal palm
Inb4 actually just Tyche
analog crag
inb4 actually nike
signal palm
probably not, but maybe
zealous linden
It will be ||Byleth, from Fire Emblem||
junior field
PRAISE IT \ [T] /
analog crag
yes, this is why i do faith builds
lament flame
They actually said that "Demeter" would be the last of Olympians. Sad but true
signal palm
According to Rick Riordan, the last olympian is Hestia 😤
analog crag
the last olympian sounds like one of those terrible high budget action movies that comes out once every three years
probably a clash of the titans style movie
lament flame
From #ask-supergiant 'Will we see all the Olympians in the game?'
We plan to add one more Olympian, so no. They don't all make sense for the game and story and we don't want to shoehorn them for the sake of it. It also makes sense some of them would be off doing other things. We do have ideas for what all of them could be like, and I think we will probably end up at least name-checking the ones who don't make the cut.
junior field
this was brought up before, but I wonder if SG chose not to fully voice act everyone they could've shoved more people in
analog crag
tell that to...
literally everyone
oh
i thought you meant he was a faithful husband lmao
signal palm
Maybe Hera's watching him as he's making his phone call to hell
junior field
I know my myths, thank you
loud tiger
I'm gonna go with creative liberty being why he's the way he is in game
lament flame
All I need is Hera AT LEAST some mentions of her in one Zeus's dialogues
lament flame
He was mentioned in "Good Riddance" song
analog crag
im too busy playing marriage councellor to orpheus and eurydice to listen to songs
main gulch
I like how they explain away Zagreus being associated with Dionysus
How he tells you to lie to orpheus that you're related to him
analog crag
dionysus has zaphod beeblebrox energy
opaque narwhal
I'd think more Titans would be around in Tartarus.
lament flame
It was a prank, mate
main gulch
Like directly descended
analog crag
maybe its jsut cause he calls you zag man
more of the titans should be in tartarus
and the hecatonchires
chaires
whatever
the well armed men that you see as statues
junior field
@opaque narwhal oh, they're around alright
analog crag
literally well armed
opaque narwhal
Wouldn't it be neat to see Chronos...
Oh yeah, they did that to them didn't they?
analog crag
smh that uranus' testicles arent a consumable
junior field
I don't believe titans were released in Hades' version of the myth
analog crag
the titans could be those big ass stone hands reaching up from beneath tartarus
junior field
so they're still stewing in Tartarus
analog crag
the ones with spears and stuff through them
junior field
which is why the titan hunting weapons are in Tartarus, too
analog crag
also what about the likes of epimetheus, who sided with the gods
obviously we know whats happening with prometheus
signal palm
doesn't the lore of titan blood say they were very well disposed of
opaque narwhal
Well, Epimetheus is on the Surface, isn't he?
junior field
no, titans were torn to shreds and spread around in Tartarus
analog crag
he's my favourite titan because he's a personification of the dumbest thing a god can be
junior field
preventing their regeneration
analog crag
hindsight
junior field
in the OG myth they were later allowed to roam the Underworld freely
which isn't the case for Hades, yet
analog crag
i wonder if tartarus is also a god like in hesiodic myth
junior field
and Prometheus is no longer in the Underworld
analog crag
hes on a big ass rock being eaten
junior field
Heracles is already dead in Hades timeline
analog crag
wait oh yeah
junior field
which means he already freed Prometheus
signal palm
heracles got around
opaque narwhal
Yeah, Hades and Zagreus wouldn't be constantly joking about how they can't get Heracles in the arena.
If he wasn't there.
opaque narwhal
...I think they're joking?
junior field
Hades is super goofy
analog crag
yeah but like... not intentionally lmao
junior field
"That hydra had a family, boy! How could you?!"
opaque narwhal
I distinctly recall several conversations where Hades and Zagreus are just kind of like stabbing at Heracles.
analog crag
ive never heard that dialogue
junior field
dude
analog crag
in erebus? wut
junior field
Erebus, the infernal gate?
junior field
ah
opaque narwhal
Haven't had the heat.
analog crag
the only dialogue ive heard from hades has just been angry dad stuff
junior field
you're in for a treat, especially if you get to Elysium's gates
analog crag
and him just pretending you didnt kill him
opaque narwhal
A lot of his jokes sound like angry dad stuff.
I remember him telling me to have a bath in Asphodel once. Something like that.
analog crag
oh yeah that's a good one
some of his pre-fight dialogue is pretty funny
kind of disapointed he didnt note that i was using varatha
analog crag
he only seems to respond to calls if they're fully charged ones
"damn that zeus" was unfortunately the only one ive gotten out of him
opaque narwhal
And he basically says to the gods "No, go away!"
I've had Artemis, Ares and Poseidon.
analog crag
artemis best girl
opaque narwhal
Artemis is good, yes.
signal palm
My favorite Hades dialogue is when you summon Bouldy in his fight
signal palm
Yes, it's great
analog crag
bouldy is actually the most powerful god
where did you think chaos came from?
thats right
this is secret lore
bouldy is the egg from which aether hatched
opaque narwhal
Oh yeah, what happens when you set Sisyphus free?
signal palm
He hangs out in the same spot
but then you can give him an ambrosia so you get the thing to summon Bouldy
analog crag
do aspects change the cosmetics?
junior field
yes
signal palm
mhmm
analog crag
oof i didnt realise that
opaque narwhal
In the same way Zeus and Chaos and Athena react to Aegis, and Artemis to Coronacht, and...
analog crag
i gave stygius an upgraded zagreus aspect cause i like moving fast
opaque narwhal
Poseidon to Stygius, probably.
signal palm
Poseidon aspect OP
analog crag
ares' basically salivating over the rail is pretty funny
or poseidon going "oh... you have this incredibly dangerous thing? well just try not to lose it lol"
opaque narwhal
Does Poseidon react to his own sword?
Ack, I can't remember what Chaos says about a Chaos aspected Aegis.
lament flame
Yes
opaque narwhal
I know he says something
opaque narwhal
Huh.
analog crag
probably because its just a god damn gun
opaque narwhal
I don't think I've seen Aphrodite react to any weapon, now that I think about it.
analog crag
aphrodite's only interested in one kind of sword
opaque narwhal
pfft
restive elk
you got a point...
junior field
yeah, Ares'
lament flame
Yes
junior field
don't forget, godling, she's married
I like how she reminds you not to overstep the boundaries with that lil line
opaque narwhal
Has that ever stopped anyone though?
And by "anyone" I mean Zeus. Has being married ever stopped Zeus?
junior field
no
analog crag
hmmm... i just realised something
analog crag
you know how the daedelus hammer lets you give exagryf unlimited ammo?
does that cancel out the hestia aspect
junior field
no
opaque narwhal
Huh, how's that work?
junior field
you get to reload before shooting
instead of 1 shot, then reload
basically, you can reload whenever
but that only works if you have Hestia
opaque narwhal
So instead of nullifying it... it makes it loads better?
loud tiger
Makes it less tedious of a reloading minigame
opaque narwhal
What is the downside to infinite ammo, actually?
signal palm
couldn't you do that without the unlimited ammo tho
loud tiger
You can't reload a full mag
opaque narwhal
^
junior field
flurry upgrade destroys Hades spear, yet Infinity buffs Hestia
loud tiger
With infinite ammo you can reload at any time
junior field
¯_(ツ)_/¯
signal palm
i guess that is better
analog crag
i mean... i'd rather just hold down the fire button until everything is dead lol
junior field
that's great if you have Zeus
opaque narwhal
Me too lol. Then again, I don't have Hestia aspect on Rail.
junior field
150 off Hestia is better for most everything else
opaque narwhal
Or... any aspect on Rail, now that I think about it.
signal palm
I always build for special on Rail
opaque narwhal
I build for Special on Shield.
analog crag
dionysus' poison thing is amazing for the rail tbh
opaque narwhal
So I can yeet six of them around the room and then everything dies.
opaque narwhal
I really like putting Doom or Luigi on my Special.
Zeus is Luigi now. Thundaaaaaaa!
restive elk
Why tho? Dash-attacking like your dash button is undestructable is much better alternative to comunism special builds.
opaque narwhal
Because I like having a working A button? And also because I spam dash just as much as everything else.
analog crag
you should see me fighting hades
opaque narwhal
I press all of the buttons at once and win somehow.
analog crag
i get so many speed buffs and spam dash so hard that i actually cant see whats on the screen anymore
same sp33d
signal palm
I always forget controller is a thing for this game
restive elk
^
loud tiger
I haven't tried controller yet
analog crag
i dont know what happens but i know i lose no health at the end of the fight and everything is dead in seconds
analog crag
i am hermes quadmegistus
restive elk
You can pry attack on cursor out of my cold dead spacebar.
analog crag
your spacebar died an hour ago when i spammed doom attacks on it
signal palm
just rebind dash to right click so your kb doesn't hate you
restive elk
Oh, well I have like 2 spare ones and 1 D-I-Why one.
analog crag
oh god
i got swift strike and explosive shots on my rail
also chain lightning
so everything just dies when i enter the room
restive elk
So, you just noticed that your frames are gone, and they were so young?
analog crag
solid 60
i can always guess which fury im fighting based on zagreus' guess cause he never gets it right lmao
restive elk
For me he usually messes up every 3rd attempt.
opaque narwhal
Zagreus gets it right sometimes!
analog crag
ive only seen him get it right once
opaque narwhal
I've had him guess Megaera and then get Megaera!
broken elk
so I just had private time with the grim reaper
analog crag
UwU
signal palm
does he still guess like that if you EM?
restive elk
No
analog crag
EM?
signal palm
shame, I liked that tiny bit of dialogue
restive elk
Extreme measures
signal palm
basically harder versions of the boss fights if you aren't yet aware
lament flame
If you want to meet him in you run then just get hit for 5 encounters straight. If he didn't show up in hall after run then go to Zag chambers and come back to hall. You'll probably see him
analog crag
btw is it just me or uhhhh
is there never a room where you have to choose between hermes and anyone else
signal palm
none of the other olympians know hermes is helping you
analog crag
also really? you just have to be hit at least once in five straight encounters?
huh
that explains why he almost always shows up in elysium for me
the area i suck the most at
lament flame
Yep
opaque narwhal
Hermes is just kind of there.
main gulch
You don't have to be hit but it increases chances iirc
analog crag
so does it have to be 5 encounters in a row then?
or it can happen under any circumstances
lament flame
Every time it's different
I like to get hit by something in each room to increase my chance to meet Thanatos. It's mostly working but sometimes it isn't
Like in my last ruuuun
analog crag
smh this is why we need hypnos romance
because hypnos isnt as high maintenance
he just sits in his hallway and sleeps
lament flame
I just want to cuddle him, because he seems so lonely especially it's clear after his dialogues with Than
analog crag
he's also super cute
restive elk
Too bad i dont know how to rip viocelines out of the game so I could respond to you with a specific instance of Zag saying "No!".
lament flame
Hypnos can be a rude twink sometimes but he just kinda do not understand how to speak with people properly lol
analog crag
THANATOS IS MY NUMBER 2
restive elk
NOW I GOT THAT "We got food at Home" Meme in my head.
lament flame
HAHAHA
analog crag
"we got hypnos at home"
analog crag
but hypnos
lament flame
I feel good just know the fact my pure boys Thanatos and Zagreus are happy together, eating and sleeping well
Gosh I love them so much
That's all I ever wanted from this game and I got it
analog crag
What's important is that in Greek myth Thanatos and Hypnos live together
In a cave
Through which the river Lethe runs
analog crag
There's a particularly famous painting of it called sleep and his half brother death
They both slep
signal palm
I've half a mind to attempt to recreate it with the game characters now
opaque narwhal
It's the image on Wikipedia if you go to Hypnos' page.
Like, the first image in the sidebar.
coarse stone
Or the page for the painting itself
opaque narwhal
Yeah, but is it the first picture on Thanatos' page? No. It's a smashed statue.
analog crag
Anyway yeah Thanatos is also hated by all other gods cause he represents death which they all despise but at least he has a cute bf in zagreus
he is the cute bf god dammit I need to stop
lament flame
Oooh painting looks so gentle and calm. What an irony that in game they actually don't hang out together due to Than's working for 24/7
analog crag
Hypnos is of course grasping poppies because opium
opaque narwhal
I love that painting.
coarse stone
Isn't it because poppies symbolize dreamlike states?
analog crag
And they symbolise it because of the chemicals within
Poppies represent narcosis, and are used to make narcotics
lament flame
The more I know...
analog crag
"You should be proud of your sleepy cheerful son" is a line that for some reason is really cute to me
Lmao I just noticed that what I thought was a headband is actually one of those sleeping blindfold things
coarse stone
a relationship with Hypnos would be...interesting. Or he'd just steal Zag's bed. Not like Zag really uses it.
runic terrace
jcngjgjgj a hyp in your bed scene and the screen goes black but its just hypnos snoring and it says "bond snoreged"
vagrant cloak
i feel lied to, they said you could raise affection for megaera and thanatos both without consequences
what about my guilty conscience, huh
glad lion
I mean, for me they hangout with eachother more then Zag so
I think they are perfectly fine with the situation
runic terrace
awww, im sorry it made you feel bad! if it helps, the three of them are fine with the arrangement? ;;
shy socket
AFAIK, getting into relationships isn't required to raise affection
It's possible that you brought it all on yourself
kind canopy
it's officially 21st here, where's my update
but on a more serious note it would be nice for them to have given the timezone too
pallid crag
i mean its usually their own california timezone
spring scaffold
Should be in roughly 30 hours if they keep to their usual release time.
junior field
in gameplay
lament flame
I think I never heard this line from Patroclus
You know what's even sadder? This line 🙃 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EOvbo-zWkAE4DwD.jpg
analog crag
Poor patroclus
midnight sinew
The most tragic character in the game, as of right now :c
lament flame
Absolutely agree
analog crag
At one point I died at least five times before I got lucky enough to have Hypnos be in the house of hades and not talking to anyone
midnight sinew
So every character you can max out gives you a summon, right? I wonder if every character you'll max out will give you a summon by the time the games out
analog crag
Hypnos summon: it's just ambien
So if hades gets more gift option things. Would we theoretically be able to summon something hades gives us against him?
lament flame
I think we will only have five. There are two locked hearts in keepsake holder left
analog crag
At one point I thought maybe he was the one who hired skelly, but if like 90 percent sure it's Persephone
midnight sinew
Yeah, that's true
Though now I have to wonder what maxing out everyone will actually do besides some unique dialogue
analog crag
It shall be the first ever roguelite dating sim
midnight sinew
If there are only two more summons left, I'll predict it's Cerberus and Achilles
analog crag
Oh god I wanna summon Cerberus against hades so bad
junior field
you can't use em against Hades; you can't use Meg against furies, and you can't use Than during the Than encounter
junior field
you can't tho
only keepsakes can be switched
and Skelly is pretty bad if you have AOE or bouncing damage
cause he'll take damage from your attacks, too
midnight sinew
you cant switch companions? bummr
junior field
yeah, but you can upgrade the total uses to 5
midnight sinew
thas nice
junior field
with ambrosia
midnight sinew
i knew that much
i only have Than's companion at the moment
alright, so can you only get the Zagreus' Thanatos scene if you have max affection with him?
or am i just super, super unlucky?
the one in his room
lament flame
Yes, with max affection/forged bond. Just wait for it
midnight sinew
Okay, got it
limber wadi
Skelly romance when?
asking for a friend
midnight sinew
fickle yoke
i'm his friend
lament flame
Hehehe
midnight sinew
"Hey there boyo, uh, are you like, askin' me out or somethin'?"
fickle yoke
limber wadi
okay that’d actually be cute tho lmao
midnight sinew
dm me what you just said please
limber wadi
(also i genuinely was asking for a friend, but don’t get me wrong i have zero shame either lol)
@midnight sinew it was the same but i just said f*** at the beginning of the message lol
❤️
midnight sinew
no idea, they're not on the roadmap yet
fickle yoke
who knows
midnight sinew
but i imagine they'll let you romance the characters who have summons
skelly included
limber wadi
cuz i’m def on board with hypnos, skelly..... pretty much anybody frankly lol
midnight sinew
all the horny teens who wanna romance aphrodite
limber wadi
dang i guess i’m a horny teen then
midnight sinew
lol
fickle yoke
Aphro is most heartless
limber wadi
when she calls u “little godling” 😍😍😍🤤🤤🤤👌👌👌👌👌
lament flame
I AM ACTUALLY HORNY TEEN LOL
fickle yoke
Artemida is most unreliable
well
all greek gods are
not rly good characters
most*
midnight sinew
Greek anythings are pretty heartless yeah
lament flame
Aphrodite 💗
midnight sinew
The games interpretation of them make me care about them a lot though
Wonder if we'll get to see Hera
lament flame
Nah we not
limber wadi
i like how this game’s depiction of hades is arguably the least like..... clearly evil??? that ive seen..... but simultaneously by FAR the biggest jerk of any depiction
fickle yoke
well they are pretty close to human with their personalities: vengeful, petty, envious, insidious....and lot more
limber wadi
if there was an emote for joaquin phoenix joker, i’d use it rn
marble vine
fickle yoke
it's another
limber wadi
close enough lol
midnight sinew
gonna make one right now
limber wadi
but yeah i do appreciate how this game makes all of the gods extremely likable tbh
midnight sinew
Zeus seems like he legit cares about people and isn't just a horny smelly horrible man
Poseidon's got dad jokes
lament flame
Yeah that's cool
limber wadi
or maybe he just seems like he cares cuz hes got that narcissistic charm
cuz that’d be a funny development - escape hades only to find out that hades’ summation of zeus is 100% accurate lmao
midnight sinew
I wonder if they're alluding to something with the olympians helping out Theseus
coarse stone
and it would fit their modus operandi truly
be charming to get their cute little nephew on their side
but really be exactly like Hades says they are
coarse stone
Dionysus is really the only one who is genuinely honest
limber wadi
artemis, hermes, and dionysus are just chillin, everyone else is lowkey trash lol
fickle yoke
@coarse stone who is tryin to pretend to be honest*
limber wadi
^
coarse stone
Aphrodite.
limber wadi
well, i mean.... if ares was pretending, it wouldn’t be a very good look..... lol