h1-story-discussion

[pearl plank]

i love that this game opens up so much content for inclusivity interpretation, i should keep an eye out for that even more than i have been

[runic terrace]

yeah!!

[steady beacon]

yes, but consider: headcanons are fun and donut hurt anyone

[runic terrace]

yeah, theres no right or wrong answer here! were just having fun speculating

[mighty wraith]

Yeah dusa is best tsundere

[pearl plank]

nonbinary Chaos was the first that stood out to me

[runic terrace]

yessss that was so nice to see

[coarse stone]

Yeah, I'm just twitchy about diagnosing people since I have family that work as psychiatrists and their ethics rubbed off on me ;x

and yeah, Chaos says "To heck with your binaries, I'm EVERYTHING!"

[runic terrace]

hahaa i understand! fortunately these are fictional characters 😂

[coarse stone]

(That and Chaos' "form" is just the closest thing to it that wouldn't BREAK the god's mind)

[steady beacon]

Chaos is the enby rep we deserve in the world

[runic terrace]

itd certainly be rude to swirl mental health rumors about irl people, though

[pearl plank]

true, important distinction. "diagnosing" a fictional character is more like finding something to relate to i suppose

[coarse stone]

It's actually more than rude to do it IRL

[runic terrace]

chaos showed up like a day or two after i decided to start using theythems more often myself i felt so validated

[versed pond]

@mighty wraith https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/638357994261839882/667087022984265738/unknown.png?width=1618&height=911

[steady beacon]

a force of nature with a fickle sense of amusement who does whatever they want and likes to mess with those in charge. that's my kinda enby rep

[coarse stone]

Chaos is pretty neat, the fact that Nyx is their child and brought both mercy and malice into existance ;x

[junior field]

mercy and malice?

[coarse stone]

Yep

Nyx's children are....a diverse bunch

some nice, some just flatout evil

[versed pond]

so it will be the same if i upgrade heightened security to rank 2

[junior field]

I thought she had 3 children?

[pearl plank]

who are they all? i only know of hypnos and thanatos from this game

[steady beacon]

Is Nyx a Titan, or the mother of the titans, or what?

[mighty wraith]

@versed pond wow no deadline thats insane

[coarse stone]

Nyx is a primidorial force

Hence why the Olympians don't treat her as a "god"

[junior field]

Nyx is a separate entity, same as Chaos

[coarse stone]

She's FAR more than that

[steady beacon]

ah, gotcha

[coarse stone]

Her children are Hypnos, Moros, Thanatos, Kers, Eris, the Fates, and many others

[junior field]

she's technically above olympians, and titans

[coarse stone]

(She's the "motherhood" goddess before anyone else tbh)

[pearl plank]

she seems subsevient to Hades iirc?

[junior field]

no

[pearl plank]

at least how teh game portrays it?

[versed pond]

@mighty wraith didnt even try deadlne, what happens if my time ends?

[coarse stone]

She's actually not really subservient

[junior field]

like it says in the codex, they have working relationship

[coarse stone]

She's just nonaggressive

[pearl plank]

i thought i remember a conversation they were having......but....maybe i'm mixing up characters

[mighty wraith]

@versed pond same as standing in lava

[pearl plank]

i think i'm confused actually yeah

[mighty wraith]

You lose hp fast

[runic terrace]

i wonder a lot about how much power nyx actually has...shes such a mystery!

[junior field]

Nyx oversees house matters, Hades oversees the entirety of Underworld

[coarse stone]

I'm also pretty sure Nyx inherited the art of messing with people from Chaos

[pearl plank]

it'll be cool to see how her character evolves for sure

[coarse stone]

She does what she wants because she can and wants to.

[junior field]

plus, like Hades himself said, Underworld is Thanatos' domain, not his

[coarse stone]

Death is Thanatos' domain

without death, the underworld is useless

[steady beacon]

Nah, there was a moment where Hades chides Nyx for encouraging Zag in his running away, but her response almost felt like a polite dismissal framed like an agreement

[junior field]

no, that was in one of Hades' dialogues with Thanatos

[coarse stone]

I know, it's just my interpretation of it

[versed pond]

@mighty wraith so its not useful for me i think, it usually takes 10-12 mins to complete one region

[junior field]

he explicitly states that Underworld is Than's domain when Than requests to be punished for aiding Zag

[mighty wraith]

Ah

[coarse stone]

I think it's more reading between the lines of what the underworld is

(a living space for the dead)

Without the dead = the underworld would be nothing

I'd actually personally like to see Moros deal with the craziness tbh

[junior field]

it seemed more of a wink wink, nudge nudge sort of thing to me

[pearl plank]

i literally just got that line today and wondered if that dialogue was accidentally written backwards?

[junior field]

Hades can't order Thanatos because Thanatos is death, but Thanatos also can't stop being death

[pearl plank]

when hades says "your domain, not mine" i mean

[coarse stone]

Basically Nyx and her children know that Hades really can't do anything substantial to stop them from helping Zag

Meg is still sent to do her job to "try to stop him"

and doesn't really get punished at ALL for failing her job

[mighty wraith]

What is Hades going to do to stop them?

Kill them?

[junior field]

tbh, I think Hades wants Zag to succeed

[coarse stone]

I'm pretty sure if Hades tried killing them, Nyx would immediately remind him that she TERRIFIES Zeus

[pearl plank]

Zag is attracted to Death and Punishment... hm...

[coarse stone]

Zag's going for the Nyx's children collection

[junior field]

I doubt Zag would've been able to actually take Hades on if Hades decided to take the matter seriously

after all, the dude killed titans

with a fork

[mighty wraith]

With the help of other gods..

[coarse stone]

Didn't he also get relegated to a desk job?

[junior field]

nah, hardly matters

[runic terrace]

hades may have a fork, but zag has a KNIFE

[steady beacon]

both detah and punsiment often involve bleeding. Makes sense.

[mighty wraith]

Zag has the blessings of said Gods

[coarse stone]

and Thanatos isn't the "bleeding out" kind of death

he's actually more of the "good" kind of death, a peaceful one.

[pearl plank]

zag also sometimes has a fork lol

or a bowl. or.... ranged cutlery

[junior field]

a blessing is nothing compared to the might of a dude that made kebobs out of his family members

[coarse stone]

If you want screaming and bleeding out on your death gods, the Kers are your people

[runic terrace]

HJFHFHJ what could you even eat with a gun

[coarse stone]

bullets?

[junior field]

Hades throws the fight, every time

[coarse stone]

but I'm pretty sure Hades would have a lot of snark if that happened to Zag tbh

[junior field]

provided he finds Zag "worthy"

[steady beacon]

i mean, a mostly peaceful death could still involve blood

[runic terrace]

i mean, hades has to be beatable, because it is a videogame lol

[pearl plank]

in his own way, Hades loves Zag and wants him to succeed.....

[junior field]

exactly!

[coarse stone]

Hades just took lessons from the Olympian Book of Parenting

[pearl plank]

i mean also no reason to think the gods shouldn't be beatable if teh titans were

[junior field]

hell, he might actually want Zag to get out and fine Persephone

to find Persephone, that is

[runic terrace]

im so curious as to what the relationship between hades and perse was like

[coarse stone]

Probably cold

[junior field]

which is why he allowed the knowledge of Zag's origin to slip

[coarse stone]

I mean she's technically a goddess that deals with growth and plantlife

[pearl plank]

and to FINE her for all the costs he's incurred through Zag's wanton ransacking

[coarse stone]

in a world where that is lolzworthy

[runic terrace]

did they love each other? i feel like they might have, but theres only so much of hades' anger and control you can take, even when he truly loves...

[mighty wraith]

Depending on which version of the myth you read

[pearl plank]

he did have that line about tell her that cerberus is doing well, or whatever it was

[coarse stone]

I think she just didn't like the Underworld

[junior field]

she actually didn't like the gods

[mighty wraith]

In some she gets kidnapped, others there was an arrangement between zeus?

[pearl plank]

hey hades keeps his rage bottled up like an adult lol

[coarse stone]

Because Hades is obviously taking the fact that she left harder than you'd like to think

[runic terrace]

yeah! to me, when zag countered that to ask why she left, i felt it was like...zag wanted to know if reminding her of the underworld would help or hurt her before he passed on the news

[junior field]

which is why she left Underworld and didn't return to her mother on Olympus

[pearl plank]

and just lets it out in being a complete jerk all the time instead

[junior field]

and why it's still snowing outside

[runic terrace]

YEAH thats sooo suspicious

[coarse stone]

I think that might just be Demeter

[mighty wraith]

Its snowing cuz demeter is mourning

[coarse stone]

She may've realized that Persephone isn't anywhere or meeting her up like usual

[runic terrace]

i cant wait to be disproven, but my theory is that demeter still thinks perse is down there

[junior field]

yes, but Demeter makes it snow because Persephone didn't return to her

[coarse stone]

Cue Demeter screaming and crying and SNOW

[pearl plank]

i wonder if expanding our relationship with demeter will cause the climate in the final boss battle to change eventually lol

[coarse stone]

and why people are actually dying and giving Than work

[junior field]

I got it, Demeter's power will be freeze

[runic terrace]

and shes going to tell zag TELL YOUR FATHER TO FREE MY DAUGHTER
and zag will be like HEY FATHER FREE THAT LADIES DAUGHTER
and hades will be like. r u srs

[mighty wraith]

Demeter power is most def not freeze

[coarse stone]

I'm pretty sure that Zag would ask who her daughter is first

[junior field]

I know she's all about agriculture, but consider the circumstances

[coarse stone]

He can be dense sometimes but he's not entirely stupid 😛

[runic terrace]

its a one way phone, is the problem...

[pearl plank]

freeze or root, same diff

is it though???

[runic terrace]

id love to be able to stop enemies hjfhfj

[junior field]

we already have Dio doing the nature-ish thing with poison

[pearl plank]

they talk like it's a one way phone sometimes, but other times we're talking directly to them

[runic terrace]

yeah, they talk sometimes abt how they cant see or hear him (except via gifts i assume)

i think its just like...very poor wifi

[junior field]

yeah, you can send words with an offering, it seems

[pearl plank]

huh.....

well, fair enough, why not lol

[runic terrace]

its okay if it isnt exact!

[pearl plank]

can't hear zag but can get booze through the phone

[coarse stone]

Plus I'm pretty sure Demeter would bring up Persephone by name.

and that sounds like a Fraternity party

[junior field]

olympians, man, they ain't gotta explain jack

[solar depot]

dionysus pouring wine down the phone receiver

[runic terrace]

imagine picking up an old school phone and wine poured out the little speaker buttons

[solar depot]

i would... open my mouth

[coarse stone]

I'd have assumed that I was drunk and hallucinating it

[junior field]

Dio wouldn't let good wine to go to waste

[mighty wraith]

I assume its just an offering thing

[runic terrace]

jghfdjhdjhfdhjfhjfcj phone starts spurting out wine like a shower

[sound of trying to drink it] aaaaghhhaahaghahh

[junior field]

he would've told you to get ready for it first

[pearl plank]

Dio probably has infinite wine he don't care

[mighty wraith]

Like when he says olyumpus i accept this message

[junior field]

"hey cuz, I got a little something for ya, get close"

[coarse stone]

Sounds suspicious

[junior field]

a wave of wine envelopes Zagreus

[runic terrace]

the dark liquid zag drowns in in the SURE ending? its wine. why would you do that zag

[vagrant cloak]

can someone let me know what red onions are, what they do, and how to find them?

[solar depot]

gjdlfs it's a great way to go

[vagrant cloak]

....i just found an entry on them in my codex

[coarse stone]

Could make an Aphrodite ending

[pearl plank]

@vagrant cloak fail en erebus challenge

[vagrant cloak]

..................oh.

[mighty wraith]

Wait hold up

[junior field]

@vagrant cloak it's a regular salad onion

[coarse stone]

Zag got mobbed by gentlemen and gentleladies and ded

[mighty wraith]

This game gonna have multiple endings?

That seems so good tbh

[junior field]

unlikely

[vagrant cloak]

i'm screaming
i didn't pay attention to what i got when that happened

[coarse stone]

It has a variety of "Zag ded lol" endings

[pearl plank]

i wouldn't be surprised with at least some kind of minor choices like in pyre

[mighty wraith]

If they really did that

[runic terrace]

😂 thinking about "anyone know what red onions are" in an out of game context is so funny

[junior field]

you don't really make any choices in Hades though, outside of banging

[pearl plank]

lol yeah

two banging-related choices

[runic terrace]

dont forget abt the choice to shut up hermes

[pearl plank]

well, narrative choices anyway

oh yeah!

good point

[haughty carbon]

I mean there is an- damn

[mighty wraith]

Dont shut hermes u0

[haughty carbon]

I was about to say that

[junior field]

shut up Hermes is a per run thing though

[coarse stone]

and Meg sends Than to Zag when he's debating a relationship lol

[mighty wraith]

Hes a funny man

[runic terrace]

LET HIM SPEAK

[haughty carbon]

just this once, I will tell him to shush

[pearl plank]

Zag constantly makes choices though, they just only impact just how he's gonna inflict violence in this moment

usually

[coarse stone]

Poor Zag just might be outvoted on everything

[mighty wraith]

Maybe the ending will depend on the gods blessing you have?

[pearl plank]

that'd be cool

[coarse stone]

Zeus' ending, Zag gets hit by lightning

[haughty carbon]

Zag has a constant choice - of from where he would be picked up to get back home.

[pearl plank]

i told Hermes to be quiet last time he asked just because i was curious about what that would do

[coarse stone]

Artemis ending, gets ded by boar

[pearl plank]

pretty sure he still talks tho lol

[runic terrace]

heres my theory for the ending: you know how it starts off with a "heres a story" framing? at the very end, we hear a kid ask to hear the zag story again, and storyteller goes "well, okayyyy" and you get new game+

[coarse stone]

Imagine if the storyteller turns out to be Hades

[mighty wraith]

Isnt new game+ hell mode?

[runic terrace]

MIND BLOWNNN

[karmic vine]

Zag: "I'm not left handed either."

[haughty carbon]

truth to be told - Zag died the first run, the narrator just fools around with the kid, he is not telling him the truth, but he has to let Zag go.

[ebon rose]

Two banging related choices? What are the two? I know one, but definitely not the other

[coarse stone]

Well technically Zag is a god so death is kinda lulz to them

Meg and Thanatos

[runic terrace]

hfhjfjhfhj yeah zag dies EVERY run

[mighty wraith]

The whip and the sycthe

[pearl plank]

the twist: Zag dies at the end 😮

[coarse stone]

(and likewise, in mythology related romances, you can get both of them)

[solar depot]

is it a choice if you don't have to choose

[coarse stone]

Meg, the Fury that punishes infidelity, convinces Thanatos to go after Zag

[pearl plank]

just cuz you don't choose between them doesn't mean you don't decide on them individually

has anyone ever turned both of them down??

[solar depot]

i'm sure somebody has!

[coarse stone]

Then they both gossip about Zag? Should've known :<

[ebon rose]

Woah, the scythe really? I knew whip was a thing because they discuss their history. But was there the same history with scythe or what?

[coarse stone]

and Than took it hard when Zag went "LOL LATER"

[pearl plank]

i mean, it's greek myth. being related ain't gonna stop nobody

[solar depot]

i think it's more like that childhood friend with whom you have unacknowledged feelings dynamic

[coarse stone]

Well it doesn't stop Zeus for sure

[ebon rose]

Wasn't Than's issue that Zag didn't say "LOL LATER"? It's like the first thing he mentions.

[karmic vine]

species is no barrier in greek mythology either

[bleak osprey]

guys can we not

[runic terrace]

he left...without saying goodbye 😭

[pearl plank]

also it's only "infidelity" if there's a commitment. even then that's prob not the right word idk

[solar depot]

yeah let's focus it in, people...

[pearl plank]

focus it in on......not talking about sex, i'm guessing?

fine by me 👍

[ebon rose]

We are focusing. On discussions of boning in the game

[solar depot]

let's just uhhhh keep it to the game content

[coarse stone]

The Furies are interesting to me, poor Tisiphone

[runic terrace]

keep it on topic keep it appropriate and respectful eeeyup!

yeah.....

[karmic vine]

tis probably went bonkers after witnessing all that murrrrrder

[runic terrace]

someone: kills an ant
tisi in her head: CAN YOU GUYS NOT KILL THINGS FOR TWO SECONDS

[pearl plank]

i'm confused about exactly what is inappropriate here. i'm not trying to say it's all totally fine, i just wanna know what i should avoid chiming in on lol

[coarse stone]

Could explain their personalities, Tisiphone is obsessed with Murder (because it's technically all she knows), Alecto is overly passionate (punishes crimes of passion), and Meg is infidelity (which might depend on the current era's standards of infidelity)

Which might be why she's so chill

[karmic vine]

meg's more intimidating when she's not scowling

[runic terrace]

i believe the time to reign it in is when things wander to aspects of mythology such as incest or beastiality that are present in myth, but not in game!

[solar depot]

to that point, i always felt like zag/meg and zag/than had some nice contrasts in terms of their relationship dynamics. there's the relationship that existed once but has extinguished itself before we meet them, and then there's the one that simply never was until their circumstances drastically changed

[coarse stone]

(might also explain why when Hades recalls her sisters, she's mad. Zag was literally her job lol)

[solar depot]

both, though, are ultimately about second chances to me

[pearl plank]

ah fair enough

[karmic vine]

I mean there's Asterius' origins but that's about it for that example

[coarse stone]

I think Zag was the one who literally just ditched the Underworld and left both Meg and Than (both who cared about him), so they were irriate about it

[pearl plank]

still holding out for being able to become best friend with asterius next tuesday

[coarse stone]

I want a Ceberus summon tbh

[pearl plank]

hypnos and dusa summon ftw

[runic terrace]

DUSUMMON....

[haughty carbon]

confession: I do not like when Mag or Than turn around and smile towards me, seeing them in such angle makes me fear.

[pearl plank]

i'm holding steady on that call lol

[ebon rose]

What about when it comes to speculation? Sure, no god "incest" has been mentioned, but it hasn't been directly refuted either, right? I think it's kind of difficult to stay away from talking about the gods when the game involves them so heavily. That, or there at least needs to be a section of the discord devoted to such topics

[coarse stone]

Hypnos summon could just cause everything to fall asleep

[runic terrace]

hehehe i think everybody was a little bit scared of all the new sprites at first. but i love em now!

[coarse stone]

Dusa summons...accidental petrification?

[pearl plank]

yeah hypnos summon would be perf and unique in that way

[karmic vine]

hypnos summon has a chance to misfire and put himself to sleep instead

[pearl plank]

idk about dusa lol

[coarse stone]

Wait

That's a lie Cyan

Hypnos is always asleep

😛

[ebon rose]

Dusa inflicts a selfcharm debuff

[pearl plank]

petrification sounds like a reskin of sleep lol

or vice versa

[coarse stone]

Or or or

She pulls the enemies up to the rafters

[pearl plank]

she DUSTS THEM

SO

[karmic vine]

also finally remembered to use battie in elysium bossfight and forgot to break the shield from pact first >_>

[pearl plank]

HAAAAARRRDD

[coarse stone]

"I'll handle this prince!" yoink and dust

[pearl plank]

she dusts all their armor off lol how bout that

[ebon rose]

"Oh! Prince! You summoned me? I - I - Okay. I'll clean these up. Thank you for calling me!"

[pearl plank]

that'd be pretty rad for miniboss encounters

[coarse stone]

That'd be funny against Hades

[pearl plank]

she could also grab all the urns in the room for good measure

[haughty carbon]

Dusa just clears the mess you make each room, since you know someone has to.

[ebon rose]

I think once we start going into direct summons of his subordinates though, it makes the previous interactions of "Oh we're totally not helping Zag" a bit of a hard sell.

[karmic vine]

I can never speedrun because all urns have to be broken first

[runic terrace]

thepurbleking- the game tries to stay away from the gory details of sensitive topics (for example, even rewriting bits of than's backstory recently to make it more clear that he isnt and has never been related to zag!). i think this server needs to follow its example when we speak about it, but you can always discuss things with people outside of this place of course

[pearl plank]

zag "outranks" dusa purely by incident

[coarse stone]

I think Dusa would not see it as acting against Hades if she's just cleaning 😛

[pearl plank]

he considers her a peer i'd say

ooh

hades' subordinates

wait but that's already half the summons lol

[runic terrace]

dusa: T-TIME TO CLEAN UP YOUR ACT!! haha was that good?? 😳

[pearl plank]

haha i'd bring her summon for teh voice lines alone. and maybe i'd even remember to use it

unlike bouldy

who i have literally NEVER remembered to use

think of all the extra darkness i could have by now

lol

[ebon rose]

Well yeah they aren't related, but they all have the same maternal figure. They certainly left that in. But I see your point. I just think it's unfortunate that I regularly see people saying "Let's not talk about the thing that influenced this entire game", when the entire point of this discord is to discuss the game and things related to it.

[hasty basin]

haha I only have skelly unlocked for about 6 runs now and only used it once, accidentally

[oblique kelp]

Am i missing something at the end with poison? Seems incredible OP and messes me up bad.

[runic terrace]

(i have to head work-wise, later gators!!)

[coarse stone]

"I'I'm sorry, your armor is smudged. I'll fix that r-right away!"

[storm drift]

@oblique kelp Dodge and deflect more carefully to avoid poison

[hasty basin]

@oblique kelp are you removing it with the dryad pools?

[coarse stone]

Wonder what Dusa would say to Alecto and Tisiphone though

[oblique kelp]

Didnt know that was a thing so no.

[coarse stone]

"M-murder somewhere else, I-I just cleaned this room!"

[ebon rose]

I did have some thoughts regarding Zag's godhood though... I think it's more likely he is only a partial god. I mean, he bleeds like a mortal. He probably died as a child and that's why he's in his current situation. Unless Zag not being mentioned in the letter is a temporary story detail to be replaced later, I think it's likely Zag isn't like the other gods. Which may be way Hades doesn't want him to leave. And then, of course, there's the snow... Hades himself seems to have no reason for keeping Zag around, since he's given him no task like the others. He also constantly mentions how weak Hades is, and then there's the Pact of Punishment shenanigans...

[storm drift]

Oh yeah definitely use the pools.. but better to not get poisoned at all too

[ebon rose]

It makes me really look forward to seeing more story

[coarse stone]

Zag is the son of Persephone and Hades

[oblique kelp]

Well when you got 3 rats in a small room with shields on them cant exactly avoid it all

[coarse stone]

so he's full god, as to why he bleeds like a mortal, I'll probably agree with Achilles' hypothesis on it

He's basically the god of blood, balanced between life and death

[pearl plank]

@hasty basin same i used bouldy one (1) time by accident during the battle with the dynamic duo, it actually saved me a death defiance funny enough, but still was totally unintentional

[coarse stone]

(Plus the red/yellow/orange accessory that Zag has on his head is in the colors of the Autumn, between the lively summer and the dead winter)

[ebon rose]

True, but with the fact that Persephone didn't mention him when she left, it's possible he wasn't born before she left. And if he was born in the mortal realm and died too early for him to remember being a mortal (or was born mortal and reborn as a god once he died), that could explain the constant themes of him being weak, having weak blood, etc.

It seems like there has to be more to it, whatever it is. Seems odd to constantly point out how different he is and how he doesn't seem to have a roll in his father's realm, and to have that be a red herring

[coarse stone]

Well Hades has a chip on his shoulder, Persephone ditched him

as to why she didn't mention Zag, she may've been under a lot of pressure

[pearl plank]

it was briefly implied once that Zag was maybe supposed to be the contractor lol

[ebon rose]

That would be even more sad, because in his own way Hades would have been saying "I literally just want to entrust putting my house in order to my son"

But Panda, so much pressure that she decided to say "Take care of the dog" but not "Take care of our kid"?

[coarse stone]

I think a lot of the problems in the game end up being that Hades doesn't like talking about them

[pearl plank]

hades needs to see a therapist

let's have that be the TRUE ENDING

[coarse stone]

well considering that Persephone probably wanted to not ever mention Zag in writing lest someone find out about his existance

[ebon rose]

When you beat him the first time, he does seem like he's in emotional pain. And I imagine when the story is fleshed out, the Pact of Punishment will be Hades actually trying to help Zag, though he'll probably still claim he's trying to punish him for leaving.

[coarse stone]

She already more or less said "to the underworld with Olympus, I'm not dealing with them"

[junior field]

hol up

what if Zag isn't actually Perse's son?

[ebon rose]

Wait... she wrote a letter that only Hades was supposed to read... and wanted to hide Zag's existence... from whom? Everyone knows Zag exists.

[junior field]

physically

what if Hades had Zag made

out of a piece of Hades and a piece of Persephone?

that would explain why Persephone doesn't mention her own son in the letter

[coarse stone]

Could be possible

[junior field]

because he didn't exist at the time of her writing

[coarse stone]

or Hades tried to recreate Persephone

and ended up making Zagreus

[junior field]

that seems far fetched, considering Zagreus has a bit of Hades and Persephone in him

[ebon rose]

He definitely as the essence of Hades in him. Fire step, the eye...

[coarse stone]

If he's made from Hades, he couldn't leave the Underworld technically

Basically Hades tried to make an Underworld crafted Persephone using a part of himself

That couldn't leave

(Cue Zag leaving anyways)

[pearl plank]

aww

[junior field]

but Hades can leave

he's on the surface, outside the temple, remember?

[ebon rose]

I wonder as well if Hades being cut off and dying after the final battle is a result of the devs wanting to wait to add more story, or if there's actually going to be a plot reason why he's getting cut off. Maybe there are things that even Hades can't speak about.

[pearl plank]

it's still "his domain"

according to him anyway

[junior field]

he also stole Persephone

[coarse stone]

That temple part is still in the Underworld I think

[junior field]

and he didn't do it within his domain

[coarse stone]

well according to myths, there's how many of them exactly? XD

one of them more or less goes along the lines of "Persephone was given to Hades"

"Demeter got mad, threw a tantrum and wintered the world"

"and Zeus backtracked"

[ebon rose]

"And then Demeter got visitation rights and decided to figuratively chill out for a while and stop literally chilling out everyone else for a bit too"

[coarse stone]

and some people are chilled out for a lot longer. In the Arctic 😛

[junior field]

there are variations, but the common theme was that Zeus approved, Demeter didn't, Hades stole, Demeter encased the land in ice, Zeus shat his pants and begged Hades to send her back, Hades agreed but tricked Demeter

[coarse stone]

well there are just so many myths regarding Persephone that it's hard to really pinpoint which one the game follows

[ebon rose]

Persephone leaving again is also something not existing in mythology, in the sense that after a certain point, Persephone was all "This place is pretty chill I guess" and decided to stick around. So we're in uncharted territory as far as mythology goes.

[coarse stone]

I think I've read one that Hades never went up to meet Persephone, arranged marriages stuff

[junior field]

what? Persephone leaves regularly

[coarse stone]

well, she technically couldn't leave the underworld after eating it's food

[junior field]

it's how greeks explained seasons

[coarse stone]

she had to return to the underworld

for 3 months out of the year

[junior field]

she only spends 1/3 of the year in the Underworld

because that's how long winters lasted in Greece those days

[ebon rose]

Look, I leave my house to go to work now and then, but I haven't Left my home

It's the difference between stepping out for a spell and swearing off the place entirely

[coarse stone]

which might explain why the temple is wintery

Persephone never returned to Olympus, so Demeter chilled everything

which would cause a war for resources...

[junior field]

also worth noting that Zag threw it in Hades' face that people regularly came and left Underworld, to which Hades replied that he allowed em to

[coarse stone]

I think the game took mythology and added a "What if Persephone never went back to Olympus"

and yeah, Hades is probably one of the only ones bound to the Underworld to such a degree

[ebon rose]

Yeah, it seems unlikely the game just takes place during a regular season

[coarse stone]

We also know that there's a war going on, which is why Than gets grumpy that he has so much work

[ebon rose]

I think the war was recent but not current, right?

[coarse stone]

There can be multiple wars in short periods of time

[junior field]

to be fair, there are always wars going

[coarse stone]

One ends, then another group sees resources, WAAAAAR

[ebon rose]

I think he mentioned "The recent war"

[junior field]

it's not like Underworld would've been reserved exclusively for Greeks

[coarse stone]

Than shows up and goes "Not again...I might need Dusa for this."

[junior field]

it's everyone on the planet

[coarse stone]

also, mortals never need a reason for war

Kinda why Ares exists

[ebon rose]

Greek mythology wasn't developed with an understanding that there were tons of people all over the globe getting sent to Hades though

I mean, they thought a physical location was where the gods hung out. They definitely thought the world they existed in was much smaller when they made up all of those gods.

[coarse stone]

That is true

[junior field]

Olympus was huge though

it's not like there were 100s of gods

[coarse stone]

But physical locations where gods hang out may or may not just be a common perception in many belief systems

[junior field]

plus, some of em had their own places, like Poseidon and his undersea kingdom, or Artemis and her woodlands fetish

in fact, Olympus was Zeus' residence

[coarse stone]

Plus weren't many of the gods considered masters of disguise

unless they wanted you to see them?

[junior field]

Zeus turned into a snake to bang his mom

[coarse stone]

(and in some cases, people pretended to NOT see them)

[ebon rose]

Olympus was where the gods hung out, but they each had places they liked to frequent and work in.

It was the home of -twelve- gods

[coarse stone]

and home sizes depend on culture

You'd be surprised where you can fit 12 people, comfort being partly ignored

[ebon rose]

I mean, they're gods. Size isn't really all that important with their power. I was more pointing out that the idea that there are wars and conflicts all over the world likely doesn't apply here, since mythology was based on the idea that where they were was all there was that mattered.

[coarse stone]

Plus there are gods that were effectively omnipresent

[junior field]

they're also on a mountain

[coarse stone]

So they encompassed not only the people they could see but the people that they couldn't

[junior field]

guys, they have the entire mountain to themselves

mountains, they're big

[coarse stone]

Wonder if they met Elsa.

[ebon rose]

What's with the focus on how big the mountain was?

[coarse stone]

(or if they moved)

also, there's plenty of places that they could've technically fit

[junior field]

I mean, they thought a physical location was where the gods hung out. They definitely thought the world they existed in was much smaller when they made up all of those gods.

[ebon rose]

Yes?

[coarse stone]

Plus considering that they waged war with outsiders, they definitely knew there was something out there that wasn't them

[ebon rose]

The early myths though assume that the gods only were concerned about and/or had influence over the areas those that created the myths cared about.

[coarse stone]

Wasn't it that they had a sphere of influence, like Zeus and the skies, Poseidon and the seas, Demeter and agriculture

and that it was essentially a sense of omnipresence to where those domains existed?

[ebon rose]

So it's unlikely that they also assumed the Underworld was also being utilized by people their entire religious existence did not mention in the slightest

[coarse stone]

So as long as there was a sky, Zeus ruled it

and yeah

Hades wasn't really worshipped

because it wouldn't have done anyone any good

(Hades didn't care about worship, he judged you based on actions)

[ebon rose]

Cthonic gods were definitely worshipped, for sure. They made sacrifices to him all the time

[coarse stone]

but not to the extent of the others

[ebon rose]

They would slam their heads into the ground to make sure Hades heard them.

[coarse stone]

I think miners worshipped Hades because he ruled the underground

[junior field]

his worship wasn't as public as that of others

he's a god of the dead, not the god of the living

[coarse stone]

also myths tend to be culturally spotlighted

basically the Greeks wrote what they knew

and assumed the rest

It's a habit that probably caused more wars than one would like to speculate on

Basically they knew vaguely that everyone would go to the Underworld (as their mythology dictates), they just wrote everything with their people in the spotlight and focus

[uneven loom]

wait so thanatos and zagreous share a mother, but it isn't The Thing? I don't get it. how can the game have the same genealogy as the actual mythology but not contain The Thing?

[bleak osprey]

no they don't share a mother

[coarse stone]

Nyx is adoptive, Zag is Hades and Persephone's son

[bleak osprey]

thanatos and hypnos are actually nyx's sons; nyx just seems to be a sort of mother figure to like half the underworld lmao

[coarse stone]

Than's romance touches on him realizing that he saw Hypnos as a brother and Than as something else

and yeah, that's kinda what Nyx does

she's motherly

I actually think she'd be the best goddess for mothers

[uneven loom]

my bad. in my head zag had three parents

[coarse stone]

Since she loves all of her children, even if they make Zeus snooze

[fickle yoke]

@bleak osprey remeber we talked about starting Hades dialogues?

[bleak osprey]

game as it currently stands has zag and thanatos as unrelated so that's what we're going with thanks!

[junior field]

oh wow, Nemesis and Eris are Nyx's children, too

[coarse stone]

Yep

Nyx's family tree is...diversely nutjobbery

[fickle yoke]

it's kinda surprising Nyx contacted Olympians to help Zag

[coarse stone]

I think it kinda makes sense

She wants to help Zag

and she knows that the Olympians have enough power to help him of their own volition

[fickle yoke]

yes but it may have some...bad effects

[coarse stone]

(and it's possible that she couldn't lend him power)

and of course, she probably knows that

[fickle yoke]

@coarse stone mirror

[coarse stone]

well the Mirror is an artifact which might be as much as she could do for Zag

Otherwise, Thanatos could probably help Zag and I don't think anyone wants Zag with Than powers

as far as Chaos goes...well, Chaos does what Chaos wants to

(and Chaos is the progenitor of the Olympians as well)

[fickle yoke]

i think Tomatos helps Zag for some his own reasons

[pearl plank]

i still think a small pool of Than boons as reward for beating Than encounters would be pretty cooool

[bleak osprey]

chaos is just here to have a good time and i respect them for it

[coarse stone]

Yeah, like "Not Today" which could give a Death Defy

[junior field]

@pearl plank what would those even be?

[pearl plank]

forcing us all into existence was their idea of a good time i guess

[coarse stone]

or restoring health on deaths

[pearl plank]

idk, i'm sure we could brainstorm all kinds of stuff

[junior field]

a yellow onion!

[bleak osprey]

can i have a thanatos boon that's just a kiss on the cheek

[junior field]

gain 1 gold

[coarse stone]

Yes, it's called "Kiss of Death"

[junior field]

[bleak osprey]

i am soft and want affection,

[coarse stone]

makes you stronger at low Hp

[pearl plank]

i feel like stuff similar to doom or involving death defies would make sense, and just because other gods have those things in their domain currently doesn't mean they couldn't be reworked

[steady beacon]

I personally think Charon, Hermes, and Skelly are all working for persephone to get Zag out of there.

[coarse stone]

I can believe that Skelly is working for Persephone

[fickle yoke]

i do not think so

[pearl plank]

than gets doom, ares gets something like... rage? lol, enemies can damage each other idk 🤷‍♀️

[junior field]

the fact that Athena has TWO death defiance boons is mind boggling

like, why her?

[pearl plank]

it would be fun and overwhelming coming up with boon ideas for this game

[coarse stone]

Charon is more business-like and doesn't care much about otherthing

[fickle yoke]

@junior field cus she about protection?

[junior field]

ok, but why 2?

[fickle yoke]

eh...

[coarse stone]

I think her stuff should be more like tactically avoiding damage

not messing with death

[junior field]

I get the one that makes you impervious, why the other one, that restores more HP?

[fickle yoke]

@coarse stone she still gives some DR

[coarse stone]

the impervious one makes sense for Athena

[junior field]

wouldn't that fit better with Dio or Aphro?

[pearl plank]

2 opportunities for restoring a DD, and both benefits (long invuln, more health restore) feel impactful and unique enough

[coarse stone]

the other one could be Than's

[pearl plank]

true

i actually thought the HP one as aphro at first

was*

[fickle yoke]

i still dont understan why Tomatos gifts us some HP

[junior field]

cuz don't die

[coarse stone]

Because he doesn't want you to die yet

[pearl plank]

yeah i'd love a little variety in rewards for Than encounters

[fickle yoke]

Centaur heart an god of death?

[coarse stone]

You want him to flirt with you after he beats you?

[fickle yoke]

what similarity between this?

[junior field]

he's collected a lot of centaurs, plenty of hearts to go around

[coarse stone]

and he doesn't want Zagreus to die

what's the best way to avoid that? Give him more life.

[fickle yoke]

and

[coarse stone]

He's a tsundere.

[fickle yoke]

i already mentioned it

he gift you if u win

u r strong - u win - u have gift

if u r weak and lose - u dont deserve it and u die faster

so he want to help??

[bleak osprey]

You want him to flirt with you after he beats you? yes absolutely

[fickle yoke]

or not?

[junior field]

my biggest gripe with Thanatos encounters, and that's mostly noticeable at higher heat, is the fact he causes more enemies to spawn

[coarse stone]

He likes to doubledip for Zag

Stack the odds in Zag's favor

[junior field]

some encounters I end up fighting 20-ish enemies total

[fickle yoke]

what is doubledip?

[junior field]

others, it's heading towards 50 total

[coarse stone]

Basically you're stronger by beating him

he just adds something EXTRA to that

[pearl plank]

i don't recall the last time i didn't absolutely obliterate than's body count

[coarse stone]

Plus I'm pretty sure Than really doesn't care much for testing Zag

[junior field]

you ever ran into Than at 32 heat?

[coarse stone]

He just really likes messing with him

[fickle yoke]

but we need his help more when we are weaker

[pearl plank]

of course i never run pact options that make enemies harder to kill

[junior field]

right

[fickle yoke]

not when we strong

[coarse stone]

Well he's not going to do our work for us

=x

[junior field]

but even outside of high heat, if you don't get enough damage and enemies have shields, you often don't have enough time to chip through em

[coarse stone]

But by "helping" us when we're weak, he's not letting Zag struggle and get stronger ultimately

[junior field]

not much of a help since he causes more enemies to spawn

[coarse stone]

(So he lets Zag get strength, THEN challenges him and gifts him)

and technically that's Hades

Probably grumbles and goes "NOT AGAIN, sigh SEND IN THE ARMORED EXPLODECHARIOTS!"

[pearl plank]

it'd be cool if he gave us a centaur heart for losing "here looks like you might need this" but a cool Thanatos boon for winning lol

[fickle yoke]

i still lose so many HP and even DD most time i met him

esp in later lvls

[junior field]

perhaps a minor heart then, that grants 10 max HP instead of regular 25

[pearl plank]

random but, can Than show up in any kind of encounter?

[coarse stone]

or the heart for the loss, for the win, he can restore Mort charges, give a heart, or a Than boon

[junior field]

non-elite ones

[coarse stone]

Non-elite/special rooms

[junior field]

so you can't rideshare the barge with Than

[pearl plank]

hah ayeah

i mean i figured no minibosses or shops lol

[coarse stone]

and you have to take damage 5 maps and closer to the room

[junior field]

he also doesn't spawn in Styx

[pearl plank]

and presumably no trials

[junior field]

or Erebus

[pearl plank]

or fountains or actual boss fights lol

[coarse stone]

Correctamundo

[pearl plank]

ok so that's a lot of exceptions lol

[coarse stone]

Basically regular rooms 😛

[junior field]

basically, only normal fights, against normal enemies

[pearl plank]

but like, any blue or gold laurels are fair game otherwise?

[junior field]

what's the difference?

[coarse stone]

with gems, coins, boons, stufflings

[pearl plank]

can he show up in a non-miniboss elite encounter?

[junior field]

yes

[bleak osprey]

what, the difference between laurel colours?

[pearl plank]

between blue and gold laurels?

[bleak osprey]

i have a pin for that over in gameplay

[junior field]

by elite I meant the encounters affected by Middle Management

[pearl plank]

in case that is what you're asking, blue laurels are sort of "meta rewards" like darkness, gems, nectar, etc, and gold laurels are run-specific, aka the good stuff lol

ah yeah

hopefully they explain blue and gold laurels in game at some point

that's another thing i had to learn from the discord

laurels, dash attacks, ..some other third thing....

[junior field]

ah, I checked out the pin

[pearl plank]

idk if i had fated authority before i learned about laurels, but if i did i almost surely tried to reroll darkness into a boon at some point lol

[junior field]

wish all this stuff was explained in the game

[pearl plank]

same

idk why some things aren't

[junior field]

we're not living in the dinosaur age, codex already exists

[pearl plank]

the dinosaur age

[junior field]

why not have a codex for something actually useful, too

[pearl plank]

where people had to refer to discord to learn about their videogame mechanics

[bleak osprey]

maybe the intent is for people to learn things themselves though

[junior field]

memba when you had to look through a magazine to find out what to do? memba when you had to call a paid support hotline? I memba 🍇

[bleak osprey]

or am i persnaps expecting too much of people

[pearl plank]

it's 2020 information is provided not discovered lol

[junior field]

@bleak osprey yeah? Which boons are required for Athena's Divine Protection?

[bleak osprey]

brilliant riposte

[fickle yoke]

@bleak osprey i remeber guy asked here can he change game language back to english

he even couldnt exit to main menu and check it by himself

[junior field]

see, I had to look that up in the wiki

because I had no bloody idea

[bleak osprey]

wait what am i being blamed for now

[junior field]

and that's the only boon I'm still missing

[pearl plank]

well, idk the whole boon dependencies system probably doesn't need to be explicitly laid out in-game

[junior field]

oh, it does

[pearl plank]

but stuff like laurels and dash attacks should imo

i think it'd be cool if there was a section in teh codex that tracked boon dependencies but only after you discover them for the first time

[junior field]

doesn't Skelly teach you about dash attacks?

[pearl plank]

nope, it would be teh perfect place to do that though

"[dash] + [attack] to dash attack"

bing bang boom

[junior field]

sure, but it's different for every weapon

[pearl plank]

yeah

so are all the other attacks, that's why you try it on skelly to see what hapepns lol

[junior field]

some of the action pop ups when you equip a weapon have an actual description of the effect though

[pearl plank]

i wouldn't be surprised to see that in this update next week tbh

[junior field]

like Achilles' spear

[pearl plank]

yeah

[junior field]

would've been nice to have that for dash attacks, too, e.g. bow dash attack charges faster

[pearl plank]

sure, totes

i'd be happy with that

really tho i'd be happy with some mention of dash attack

[tepid granite]

btw has it been confirmed that hades is in fact the final boss of the game and there will be no more zones afterwards?

[junior field]

yes

the 4 zones are all there will be, the ending is the only thing awaiting us past Hades

[tepid granite]

that's a bit disappointing

[pearl plank]

it might not be as simple as that though, we'll see. maybe not more biomes but there could easily be more content

[flint marten]

Lmao Meg catcalling Zag sounds strange knowing her temperament

[cobalt summit]

DOES LAVA COUNT AS A TRAP

[flint marten]

Yep.

[cobalt summit]

IF I RESIST TRAPS DO I RESIST DAMAGE FROM LAVA

[flint marten]

WHY ARE WE SCREAMING

[drifting citrus]

yes, kinda

[fickle yoke]

cus he is far from you

and he wants you hear it

[cobalt summit]

MY KEYBOARD IS JUST CONNECTED TO THE PIPES IN MY HOUSE

[hoary pine]

isnt lava like..

4 damage per second

or somethin

or was it 1 damage per millisecond

[flint marten]

@fickle yoke tomorrow I should be getting Skelly's first prize!

[hoary pine]

either way, it hurts like hell if you stay for more than a second

Niice kree

[cobalt summit]

OH ALSO, COULD SOMEONE DIRECT ME TO WHAT IS KNOWN ABOUT THE DIFFICULTY NUMBER? THE ONE REPRESENTED BY THE SKULL ICONS?

[flint marten]

@hoary pine especially if you have Heightened security on.

[drifting citrus]

that's heat

[fickle yoke]

@cobalt summit yes kinda

and stop caps pls

[drifting citrus]

unlocked when you clear a run for the first time, or unlocked immediately on hell mode

[hoary pine]

ah yeah

isnt it like +300% trap damage

[flint marten]

400%

[main gulch]

+800% at max

[flint marten]

800 maxed

[main gulch]

Also lava deals damage rapidly which ramps up

[cobalt summit]

I'm trying to decide if 90% trap resist is worth this Athena boon or if that's just a get gud sort of thing. Does poison count as a trap?

[main gulch]

Starts from 1 then increases by 1 each time

@cobalt summit if you don't have heightened security it's usually not worth it

[flint marten]

Wait so that boon negates 90% of the traps damage?

[cobalt summit]

oh, that makes sense

[main gulch]

Yeah it does

[flint marten]

As in, even if it's +800%, still negates 90% of that?

[cobalt summit]

yea, so you'd get 10x as much time hanging out on lava? that sounds pretty good

[main gulch]

Yis

[flint marten]

God that's

Well

If you don't get that on high heat

You're

Screwed hard

[main gulch]

You get SLAPPED by styx axes

[flint marten]

Me, especially

[drifting citrus]

or you can not take heightened 😛

[main gulch]

Also lava

Since lava starts at 9 damage

[flint marten]

I get slapped by Ely arrows

[main gulch]

Then ramps by 9 each time

[hoary pine]

hmm

im not sure if poison is a trap

[fickle yoke]

ex Hydra with that thing is death

[hoary pine]

i think poison is more like a debuff

cause you can get it on the styx enemies

[flint marten]

Last time I had Heightened on I got instakilled by one Ely arrow from half hp

And lost a DD because of that

....twice

[hoary pine]

once i get home, i need to do heat

[drifting citrus]

though i do commend sgg for being able to make traps feel dangerous in all biomes, rather than a minor annoyance

[main gulch]

Poison is not trap BTW

But hades green urns are in the final encounter

[drifting citrus]

i've gotten slapped by a random axe in styx and watched my step ever since

[fickle yoke]

green urnes are!

[flint marten]

beware the urns

I took 120 dmg once

And that was a run ender

[fickle yoke]

i do not get hit by them very often

but styx with high sec is killing me

[cobalt summit]

If I replenish a use of death defiance when I have not yet lost any, do I get an extra death defiance charge or is it wasted?

[bleak osprey]

it won't let you take it, as far as i know?

i've never tried

[coarse stone]

Don't think you can take it IIRC

I think you can have about 4? 1 Skelly and 3 Mirror Death Defies

(and one of the Athena boons restores one but I don't know if it does if you haven't lost any)

[lime geyser]

only Tooth keepsake and Chaos blessing can grant you an extra death defiance, boons and Well items just restore them

[celest cosmos]

Yeah, 5 is max with legendary Chaos boon you will never see

[azure latch]

||Isn't Zagryus Zeus's kid in old Greek mythology? Would explain why Hades hates his guts since Zeus banged Persophene as a snake or whatever||

[lament flame]

This origin was made a joke in game by Zag and Dio, so he certainly is Hades son

[coarse stone]

Plus Zag has Hades' eye

[azure latch]

I know, but Zeus fathered so much of the pantheon. Recessive genes or something haha.

[supple dagger]

So I know we settled that Demeter will be the new Olympian. While I've seen maybe a couple of people suggest she gives ice-themed boons, would it be wrong of me to think she gives off boons that provide small healing or life stealing abilities in some way?

[azure latch]

@supple dagger how did that get established? I’m new here

[supple dagger]

About the new Olympian or that the new Olympian having ice powers?

[ebon rose]

The ice powers thing seems iffy to me. I mean, it would be cool for sure... but why would Demeter give someone the power of her grief? The gods so far have given Zagreus boons based on what their focuses are, not what they were during periods of grief.

Zeus doesn't give Zag the power of turning into animals or anything

[untold sable]

it's all speculation from the silhouettes. so honestly anything goes

[lament flame]

Only increase of hp I can think of is slightly increased procent of healing for healing items. Life steal is OP don't think devs will include it again

[supple dagger]

Tbf, despite not being the God of Fire, I could see Hades giving some fire-imbued abilities if he allowed escapes. Lol

[ebon rose]

We never know, Hades may be a boon giver later on, only unlockable after progressing to a certain point

[untold sable]

hahah Hades giving mammonite style boons

more gold you have more damage or w/e

[lament flame]

Money power

[ebon rose]

As cool as I think that would be, the game hasn't really done anything related to resource management so far.

[lament flame]

Yeah

[ebon rose]

I wonder what role Hera will play...

Hephaestus is already just leaving stuff around for some reason, but has not been directly interacted with so far.

[lament flame]

I personally want to see Hera though I think Demeter would be the last of the gods

[supple dagger]

If they ever let us even see Olympus, I could see Hera helping for the search of Persephone... for a bargain that's already doomed to begin with. She makes a deal and then stitches to Hades on where Zagreus is going.

[ebon rose]

Probably the last of the boon givers, anyway.

Apollo has been mentioned so far, but just in Thanatos's Codex entry, I believe.

[untold sable]

i could see Apollo with a blind debuff

[ebon rose]

Hera would actually be a solid idea. So, she'd be observing his progress through the mortal realm or something? I'm curious to see what exactly they have planned for the mortal realm, which I -think- is what's beyond the final boss

[supple dagger]

I hope so. Have a small hub similar to House of Hades that can serve as a middle ground as Zagreus figures out where Persephone has gone.

Than is there... for some reason.

[ebon rose]

Do we even know what age it is in the mortal realm? If not, there's no telling what enemies it would contain, if the mortal realm is even directly explored. Come to think of it, they'd also have to come up with explanations as to why things change each time, or they'd have to completely change how it works for the moral section.

More than likely though, there'll be some reason as to why Zag has to go through a -specific- area to find answers, which will probably involve some super special dungeon.

[supple dagger]

I'd have to do some research as to what Greece was like for... Idk, Medieval Europe? Not too modern but also not too deep in ancient times.

[dense jasper]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UTgDJs0a2M
This build was so broken when I was running through the game with this weapon lol...
(btw, I made a comedic edit or two in this video. I'll remove it if people don't like it)

I love these lines though lol

[gusty crag]

Daily reminder that Artemis is an Angel that deserves to be protected at all costs

#ArtemisBestGirl

[dense jasper]

She is a good girl ❤️

[lament flame]

Absolutely agree

[dense jasper]

btw I'm guessing that my video wasn't so great huh? ;w;

[gusty crag]

It was good

but Artemis is perfect

[dense jasper]

lol ok

[supple dagger]

But yeah, I do who we know what time period it is. Because someone suggested it's post-nuclear war, and I do not support. Simply because Hades would know what ash is. He would not go "look at this ash snow"

@dense jasper also did you sell some boons or did you try to avoid too many paths that didn't have specific gods? I woulda had dash with a boon at least.

[dense jasper]

I sold only a few. Turns out I didn't need to purchase much, so I saved the 1k + prize from Carrion Charon (opps)

I was pretty much thinking "why would I need anything else when I can just nuke everything?" lol

[supple dagger]

hehehe, they really do pronounce his name like that. I thought it was pronounced like Sharon

[junior field]

it sounds like care + on to me

[dense jasper]

but really, look at the dps from those rockets! lmao

[oblique kelp]

||FIRST HADES KILL!|| 😄

[supple dagger]

Special boon at Lv 9

I thought the highest level would be like... 5

Tbh, all you were be missing would be using special 3 times. Bet that video would be even shorter. Maybe about two minutes.

Also cute edit. I really do be visualizing the tale too.

[dense jasper]

XD

[supple dagger]

"Zagreus goes to a farm and steps on a farming tool and dies"

[dense jasper]

omg is that one too?

[supple dagger]

Yep

[dense jasper]

the scripts in this game are too good

I love it so much

[supple dagger]

Someone should definitely dedicate a page on the Narrator and every possible ending you can get as of this update

[dense jasper]

yeah

[supple dagger]

I think I've heard that one, obviously the farming one I just mentioned, the narrator trying to come up with a death from time to time, and even just him going "well, we can't tell you because that would be too graphic"

[dense jasper]

also for my aim, I know it sucks. which is why I don't play FPS shooters unless it's Overwatch, because I can't even hit a grape with a fork...

[hollow badge]

Regarding the timeframe, Ares does have a line or two in response to the Rail that suggests that mortals haven't invented the gun yet, so there's that.

[dense jasper]

yeah I heard him mention that before

makes you wonder what the world of Hades would be like in the future...

like if Zagreus died in the mortal world like the narrator says, and he drops the rail

then a guy would come by and be like "what is this instrument?"

"Would you mind diving into this pool for me prince? The prince says, 'Oh sure'" XD

[junior field]

I reckon he doesn't take his weapon with him

for obvious reasons

[dense jasper]

who knows? lol

[supple dagger]

0Oh yeah, that pool of water thing made me laugh too

Because @ Zagreus, DO YOU SWIM!?

[dense jasper]

"WASTED"

[lament flame]

Zagreus is our legend

[junior field]

tbh, Zagreus had no where to swim growing up

[hollow badge]

Given that they're titan-slaying tools and only the Spear has a solid reason why it's even in the House of Hades at all (It was Hades's own weapon) with various gods commenting along the lines of "oh wow, I thought that was lost" on the weapons, it's entirely possible that they can't be taken up by mortals in the first place, and return to the underworld with Zag when he dies

[junior field]

pretty sure all of the weapons have a good reason to be in the Underworld

cuz you know, that's where titans' remains went

and the weapons yearn for titan blood

awash in the crimson glory

[hollow badge]

(...holy crap how did I never make that connection with the upgrade item...)

[lament flame]

As Achilles said those weapons can't be captured and/or controled. Like they have their own will

[azure latch]

Weapons are sentient for sure. Anyone get Hades dialogue with his aspect equipped on Spear?

[lament flame]

Yes

[dense jasper]

I really need to get to work on that design for the Harvester, Krono's Cronus' (giant) Sickle.

I've been meaning to make that for a while

[supple dagger]

I'd love to see a dialogue exchange between Zag and Than about a scythe after clearing a Thanatos room.

[dense jasper]

"My Scythe is bigger than yours!" XD

but yeah, since Cronus' was a titan, could you imagine how big his sickle would be compared to Zagreus? It would be larger than a scythe by comparison perhaps

the game could use a heavy weapon too imo

[supple dagger]

OMG I just realized a good weapon idea! Something that requires dual-wielding. It'd be an adjustment from the other melee weapons (especially the sword).

[dense jasper]

a twin-sword weapon idea would be nice too

we still have another weapon slot in that room, though I hope the devs are open to more weapon ideas

it's why I'm designing my own for them mostly just for fun

[junior field]

both bow and rail are dual wielded though

[dense jasper]

you mean uses two hands to wield them? I don't think that's what he means

[supple dagger]

They're dual-wield, but they're both ranged weapons.

The idea I have is melee, like the sword and spear.

[hollow badge]

two-handed and dual wield are different things

[supple dagger]

also that

[junior field]

don't you use two hands for the sword if you have World Splitter?

[dense jasper]

Oh, I was actually thinking the cestus, as a dual fist weapon.

[supple dagger]

I think so. It makes me think about Red when she swings the Transistor sometimes

[dense jasper]

Though now that I think about it, wouldn't that seem derivative of God of War 3?

[junior field]

yeah, some of sword's animations were clearly taken from Transistor, the special, for example

Red does the same body flip in Transistor

[supple dagger]

Even the Rail's attack makes me think a little bit of Ping()

[dense jasper]

I think Super Giant is much like FromSoft when it comes to reusing assets. Not that that's a bad thing.

[junior field]

at least the overall gameplay experience is different

[dense jasper]

just take what works and make into something that seems different yeah

[junior field]

Souls barely change

hell, Sekiro has the same problems as Souls 3, like not having options to deal with multiple enemies

[dense jasper]

Sekiro, Bloodborne, and Dark Souls 3 seem to borrow a lot from each other in both gameplay and sound

Sekiro is perhaps the only one of the three that deviates a lot

[cloud lion]

fromsoft reuse asset almost become their identical takes in their games.

like always dat shiny burning soul for item pickup

and no one use their mouth

lol..

[dense jasper]

Super Giant knows how to make their assets look good though

VERY good

[brazen pendant]

so i got max hearts on someone but they didnt show up in my room for like the convo thing

did i do something wrong?

[junior field]

you gotta keep talking to em

it takes time, you can't just wine em and then bang em right away, gotta let it simmer for a bit

[dense jasper]

"wine em and then bang em"
nice dating advice man lol

[junior field]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[cloud lion]

[coarse stone]

"wine em and then bang em" -Megara would like to know your location

whipcrack

[lapis smelt]

That sounds like something Dionysus would do

[frozen flint]

The Orpheus songs are soooo good

Hymn to Zagreus is my favorite

[worn mountain]

I just noticed the silhouette of the new Olympian in the YouTube trailer. I don't suppose people already know who that is? It looks like they're holding a Cornucopia like thing.

[coarse stone]

It's probably Demeter

[worn mountain]

I've heard a few lines about Hera, Apollo and Helena. Those could just be flavor. Is Demeter just a guess or are there other clues to look for?

[untold sable]

all speculation haha

[worn mountain]

ok

[supple dagger]

I think a lot of people also suggest Demeter because we just NEED more on the narrative/the search for Persephone and since winter/snowfall is a thing in the final boss arena (in the mortal world), it's best to suggest Demeter doesn't know her daughter's not in the Underworld like she thinks she is.

[junior field]

definitely not Apollo

the figure is too wide and short for him

same for Hera, tbh

[jovial fossil]

I'm 90% sure it's Demeter based on two things.

1. Demeter is guaranteed to be added at some point because plot reasons. She has to show up at some point, so in the absence of other information any new god has a very high base probability of being Demeter, especially with the game getting closer and closer to full release without her being implemented.
2. The silhouette looks like a woman based on the shoulders, holding something that looks much like a cornucopia; Demeter is female, and is associated with cornucopias.

[worn mountain]

yeah, sounds like a safe bet on Demeter then.

[junior field]

we're bound to get Hera eventually though

just imagine her duo banter with Zeus

[jovial fossil]

Imagine you get a Hera/Zeus Trial room and instead of the wrath effect the screen just gets mostly obscured by Zeus and Hera having a domestic

[junior field]

I imagine if you get a dual Hera/Zeus room, you can pick Hera and Zeus won't send anyone after you

"Oh, ok nephew. Well, uh, you can take my blessing, too"

[cloud lion]

imagine you don't even need to choose, they just started when you enter

[uneven loom]

lmfao good idea. Also someone mentioned Theseus just being a piece of him? Can someone explain?

[junior field]

piece of what?

oh, that was a poop joke

Theseus being a piece of poop, aka himself

[cloud lion]

the real Theseus is the chariot

[junior field]

explains why chariot Theseus is so ez

HEYO

[cloud lion]

LOL

[uneven loom]

Bruh

[cloud lion]

oh man i'm having the you... like me Zagreus? convo from Than

Than's being shy there...

[uneven loom]

Artemis is still best boy/girl/entity

[lean hare]

agreed artemis best girl but if i was into dudes it would be thanatos no lies

[uneven loom]

If I were into dudes I would like than but I still wouldn’t be able to decide between them

[cloud lion]

a death bf

noice

[uneven loom]

Also people don’t mention this but have you SEEN how physically attractive Artemis is? It’s crazy. She somehow looks approachable, lithe, muscular, but not obsessed with her body. Literally never seen someone irl or in fiction that gave all four vibes. The art team really outdid themselves

[coarse stone]

The bedroom scene with Than is adorable but I'm pretty sure Than giggles

[cloud lion]

your kinda obsessed with her.

[uneven loom]

I have nothing better to do with my time tbh

Than play video games, study for AP classes, hang out with my family, and fantasize about waifus.

What is yalls opinion on Aphrodite? I really respect the direction the art team went with her, having her follow Ancient Greek beauty standards rather than modern day ones. A lazier company would have just created waifubait

[twilit swan]

what are the doors to the left in the house?

[tiny sequoia]

wait, in what way does aphrodite's design not follow modern beauty standards?

[lament flame]

Aphrodite is my second queen. Although I think all women and men in Hades are beautiful and fascinating. Except Thesues.

[uneven loom]

They do. But more like 70s Monroe beauty than 10s Emma Watson beauty

[supple dagger]

Theseus is definitely a phallus

[uneven loom]

If you look at Ancient Greek art (this coming from a fairly clueless person btw) it seems to follow Monroe more than Watson. Tall and curvy rather than short and thin. Hyperfeminine facial features vs more androgynous ones. I’m no cosmetologist though, so it’s possible that everything I just said was wrong

[tiny sequoia]

you've thought about this more than i have, i guess

[junior field]

I don't know why you guys obsess over Artemis so much when Athena is clearly superior
https://steamcdn-a.akamaihd.net/steam/apps/1145360/ss_e68f4593ea63cf807c6c4e56cfb0f9656bdd4cd7.jpg

[uneven loom]

Athena is quite attractive but she seems like a friend to be honest.

Her smugness and wardrobe kind of turn me off. My Zagreus will end of dating her if possible though, unless I have to choose

[haughty carbon]

You all talking about some low tier characters, when we all know elite medusa and elite blockhead is the top tier.

[junior field]

pretty sure Megagorgon could swallow Zag whole

[lament flame]

For me Artemis seems like a friend. I respect her choice to be alone

[uneven loom]

MEGAGORGON WAIFU ♥️♥️♥️♥️♥️

Artemis is very obviously into Zagreus. The way she reacts to offerings and the convo with Aphrodite for example

If you leave Artemis alone that ain’t her choice lol.

[untold sable]

honestly love all the character designs

[lament flame]

Um she is forever virgin in Greek Mythology lol

[untold sable]

I personally love Aphrodite the most bc of pre-existing biases playing as one of her grandsons in a ttrpg

[tiny sequoia]

sgg should let me give bouldy a smooch

[lament flame]

Hug the bouldy

HECK ROMANCE BOULDY

[uneven loom]

Yes but that doesn’t necessarily imply she’s never had sex, because eternal virginity can also just mean an immaculate covering. Also, she has had romantic relationships before, with Orion. Presumably they just didn’t get to home base

[tiny sequoia]

my arms too short to hug

[lament flame]

She didn't had any relationship with Orion as I remember

I am sorry to be mean but that's a fact

[tiny sequoia]

its mythology, there is no canon

[untold sable]

^

[deft path]

I just managed to claw my way through the surface fight.

And was both slightly disappointed in myself that I didn’t realize they wouldn’t have the surface after fight part done while it’s still in early access

And very amused

oh

[uneven loom]

Here is one interpretation. It doesn’t have citation so maybe it’s fake myth https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.twincities.com/2016/02/14/sky-watch-mike-lynch-orion/amp/

[lament flame]

Oh thank you I will read this article

[deft path]

Has anyone speculated on why it’s always snowing?

I think I know but I hope I’m wrong

[supple dagger]

People have theorized that Demeter doesn't know that Persephone's not in the Underworld, which is why it's snowing

[lament flame]

Demeter is sore about her daughter absence, I think

[deft path]

But then it’s just winter

[uneven loom]

Also I have some serious questions about the setting in general. It seems to mix of modern cultural norms and Greek social and technological institutions. How do gender roles and women’s rights work? In Greece women were basically property and in many places considered inferior partners to men. Lesbianism didnt exist as an idea until Sappho. Is lesbianism common in hades? We see a lot of male homosexuality but no female. Furthermore, how much of the r word is there in the hades universe? The gods did it all the time, but I presume it’s been edited out to avoid controversy and to make the olympians more sympathetic as characters. But in that case, what was the relationship between hades and Persephone?

[deft path]

Normal winter, I mean

[supple dagger]

Another plausible theory, imo, is that the gateway into the Temple could be near a region where snow and ice are common year-round (i.e. mountain peaks)

[deft path]

Well

My theory is

Based off two bits of conversation that I’ve seen

[supple dagger]

@uneven loom all I can say is people already theorize that Zag might have been romantic with both Meg AND Than based on dialogue exchanges, so...

[uneven loom]

I know that much lol

[deft path]

At one point, Megara mentioned that Thanatos has been especially busy recently

Due to a war

And Hades at one point pre-fight dialogue says when asked about the snow

“It didn’t always snow”

I’m paraphrasing

My theory is a nuclear war broke out on the surface, and the setting takes place in modern/post-modern times

[junior field]

nah, Ares contradicts that

[deft path]

Oh?

[junior field]

he says mortals have no access to weapons like the rail

meaning no guns

[uneven loom]

But I’m confused about in which ways the sexual and gender norms of the game are modern and which ways are Greek. I would love for supergiant to do more world building but it seems like they only use it as a vehicle for plot and characterization

[junior field]

so can't be modern times

[deft path]

I recall Achilles

In the codex

Saying about the rail “I’m glad mortals haven’t copied this weapon of the gods like they’ve copied all the others”

You’re sure ares said that, though?

[junior field]

oh, maybe I'm confusing my As

[uneven loom]

Also, the codex describes “the elsritch art of chemistry allows those guys to make bombs” which implies they don’t know chemistry and therefore don’t know nuclear physics

[deft path]

I mean I hope you’re right I don’t want to be right

Be a little depressing

[junior field]

the war comment is irrelevant, there were always wars going on

[uneven loom]

I think the current state of the setting where it’s a weird cultural mash is really good. I just want MORE

[supple dagger]

Tbh, I never am a fan of those dark theories.

[deft path]

I meant it as it seems to me people are commenting Thanatos is more busy than usual

[junior field]

well, Bastion and Transistor were very dark

mankind wiped out, end of all things

[deft path]

Is there a uhhhh

Use for Ambrosia so far?

Past resource exchange?

I’ve been hoarding it

[supple dagger]

At least they're more interesting than humans playing with atoms.

[junior field]

yes, wine Than and Meg, and upgrade companions

[supple dagger]

a little too much

[deft path]

upgrade companions?

[junior field]

also wine Skelly and Sisyphus

you haven't gotten to companions yet?

[deft path]

:/

[junior field]

my man, you gotta pump those nectar juices

[deft path]

I don’t know what that means

I’ve been giving them mostly to Zeus Artemis and Charon

Past the cursory first one for everyone

[junior field]

bruh

[deft path]

not Charon

Cerberus

[junior field]

focus on Meg, Than, Sisyphus, and Skelly

believe you me, they're gonna make it worth it

especially Sisyphus

[deft path]

I got killed 20 seconds into my first Than encounter

And I think he’s bugged now

I haven’t seen him since in like 5-6 runs

[supple dagger]

I've gotten a lot of people up to the heart where a clock is there, minus Sisphyus, who has a lock over his

[junior field]

nah, you need to get hit in 5 rooms in a row for Than to appear

[supple dagger]

I was about to figure out what to do next, but then Steam decided it needed to "verify" files

[deft path]

Get hit?

As in slapped around?

[junior field]

yes, get hit, take damage

[deft path]

Ooooooooh

[supple dagger]

ooo

[deft path]

I’m the best wohoo

[supple dagger]

that's good to know. I never knew that.

[deft path]

too good for the story to progress

[untold sable]

Not necessarily in a row

[junior field]

that's what the wiki says, anyway