h1-story-discussion

[turbid hearth]

I think I'm averaging 4 hours of gameplay a day since it came out on Steam

[bleak pendant]

I’m like 40 runs in and about 10.8k enemies

I don’t recall right now

[formal ivy]

yeah, 38 runs and 10450 here

[bleak pendant]

I don’t know my hours rn

I left my comp on for awhile

So it displays 75 hours

But I haven’t done 75 hours of runs

I don’t think I did at least

[hard whale]

39 10561 is where i am at this game is soo good

[bleak pendant]

I’m so close to being able to consistently win each run

I’m just having trouble with hades sweep

I either avoid it 90% or the time and win the run

Or I just take half my health in damage each time and lose all 3 of my defiances

It’s mostly with sword

And never with shield

[paper pawn]

I got it steam release which was,, 11 dec? right?

and I'm at something like 160+ runs

this game is

way too addicting

damn them

so good

[formal ivy]

I'm pretty bad with sword, haven't even passed Elysium with it yet

[bleak pendant]

It’s still in EA too

Trouble with Thesseus I assume?

[formal ivy]

meanwhile Gun cleared on like first or second try

[paper pawn]

currently in the middle of another run or i'd check stats but yeah, love it so much

[bleak pendant]

Or something else?

[formal ivy]

I'm just not good with timing the sword special

[bleak pendant]

Pro tip

[formal ivy]

so it becomes mostly useless

[bleak pendant]

Don’t use sword specia

Or in the chargeup, dash

It’s safe if you have divine dash

Sword special is like the worst move on the game

[formal ivy]

oof

[bleak pendant]

It’s gun special

But 10x worse

I’ll use it occasionally to proc Privileged status

But I usually have like aphro cast and some other status on my attack to do that for me

Like jolted or poison or doom

[paper pawn]

i used to really like the sword since it's the first weapon you learn how to use, but then i got sick of enemies in asphodel hiding all the way at the map corners in the lava

on higher heat, this is basically all of the ranged enemies positioning

absolutely awful

[bleak pendant]

Yeah. A lack of range or any sort of defense option really crippled sword

In Styx, you learn to hate the snakestone that hover over the chasms

It’s the worst

[paper pawn]

omg yes

[bleak pendant]

Literally any other weapon

I’ll be fine

[paper pawn]

and only your thrust can hit it with the sword if you're not a cast build

[bleak pendant]

The only ranged option is the really bad Daedalus upgrade.

That does 20 dmg

Yeah

The cast is nice

But because they stick, you can’t rely on them for consistent ranged dps

Especially not vs Hades

[paper pawn]

yeah without certain buffs/aspects, i find cast build fun but not reliable

[bleak pendant]

Other weapons I had to do 1-2 rounds against him to get used to it

But sword took me 5 rounds

Yeah, it’s super fun

I gotta give blade storm another try

Because I did it early and it sucked

[paper pawn]

yeah sword was my baby, my poor, sad baby that can't do much past tartarus tbh

[bleak pendant]

So now that I can reach hades, I should try again

Yup. RIP sword

[paper pawn]

yeah it's not really noticeable in heatless/low heat but when you start having to crank up the heat for more boss loot, you start to really notice how bad the sword is in comparison and I was in denial about it for days

when I first started doing heat runs qq

[bleak pendant]

Yeah. I really liked the sword a ton. But it’s just so rough sometimes. It feels smooth to use until you hit that one ranged enemy

[formal ivy]

or rather, don't hit

[bleak pendant]

Exactly

[paper pawn]

[unreal flax]

spear is your best gun

[bleak pendant]

Spear is your best bow too

[paper pawn]

spear is your best homing missile launcher

[unreal flax]

and sniper rifle

[paper pawn]

what's your favorite weapon? "I like the sniper rifle" "oh you mean the rail?" "no the spear"

[bleak pendant]

Zagreas aspect: increase range by a million and speed to light speed

[unreal flax]

i just need a hammer upgrade that makes the spear do like 3 shots at the same time for a shotgun build

sgg pls

[paper pawn]

omg yes

[bleak pendant]

Fr tho, why is zag spear so good

Hades spear is bleh

[paper pawn]

the greeks, known for their exploding sniper spears

[unreal flax]

achilles is a spear user i bet he teaches him good

[bleak pendant]

And Achilles is pretty decent, but pales compared to zag

[unreal flax]

zag just has help

[paper pawn]

was this achilles' secret to success

the exploding spear that snipes you

throw three spears at once, I'm crying

though multi-skewer does that but better

because I don't even have to aim it

just point at wall somewhere off screen

profit

i don't know what i just killed, but it worked

[bleak pendant]

Multi skewer is nice, but I don’t like not being able to tell where my spear should be

Like, I want that crit and backstab on the return

Hit em for 500

[paper pawn]

fair, i build multiskewer with poseidon kb a lot because I am lazy

[unreal flax]

im sure with a bunch of enemies you will hit something

[bleak pendant]

That sounds fun actually, I’ll try that Poseidon build when I can grab multi

[unreal flax]

or with the exploding spear you can tactical nuke enemies across the map

[bleak pendant]

Yeah

[unreal flax]

good bye, strong bows

don';t bring arrows to a spear fight

[bleak pendant]

I did crit build with that

I almost melted hades

I just lost 2 lives at Theseus

[unreal flax]

my first hades clear was thank to that crit build haha

[paper pawn]

yeah for fast room clearing I just multi-skewer, poseidon kb, razor shoals, the double kb if you get it

[bleak pendant]

So I didn’t have the longevity for that fight

[unreal flax]

i only had 1 dd and dad almost wiped me

[paper pawn]

and just stack on poseidon kb/wall slam damage buffs

i've never seen rooms vanish faster

especially in temple of styx

[bleak pendant]

I want to like the wall slam one

But it useless vs hades

[paper pawn]

oh yeah it's purely for adds

[kind socket]

what is the exploding spear

[paper pawn]

poseidon is garbage against bosses

[bleak pendant]

Daedalus upgrade teprac

Well, Poseidon works vs the fury

[paper pawn]

not very well though since room size

[bleak pendant]

Exploding spear makes ur special an ape that does base 80

[paper pawn]

but yeah otherwise potato

[bleak pendant]

Yea

[paper pawn]

i usually just put one artemis boon on main spear attack + flurry jab

to deal with single target dps

if I'm building room clearing

[bleak pendant]

Only one Artemis boon?

[paper pawn]

sometimes, yeah

[bleak pendant]

Lol, jk.

[slate zenith]

I had a very strange run recently of almost no boons. But i ended up with a spear that had 270% or so extra special damage, 50% crit on return, going into styx

[paper pawn]

wow

[bleak pendant]

This isn’t really the place to talk about it but arte and Aphro are like the two most op boons

[slate zenith]

Real lucky chaos boon and an aprhodite boon.

[paper pawn]

that's when zagreus should have a line going "oh man, where did your health go?"

[bleak pendant]

Oh nice

[slate zenith]

The weird part was that by the end though I had a cast build out of it

[paper pawn]

oh yeah you think 15% chance or whatever is little but you stop thinking that real fast when you start poking them for all they're worth

[bleak pendant]

Then you stack the crit damage modifiers

[slate zenith]

I had Posideon cast, Doublecast, +3 ammo, and hermes 80% speed cast

[bleak pendant]

And just watch the HP melt

[paper pawn]

oh no dad where did your HP go, it's just all over the floor

[bleak pendant]

That’s how I feel about Chiron bow builds

Got weak on the attack and poison on the special

Hades dropped instantly

[paper pawn]

oh that's nice yeah

[bleak pendant]

It’s great when he loses attack, defense, movement speed, and health

[paper pawn]

i need that meme for friendship ended with sword, new best friend spear

[bleak pendant]

Stacking up to 8 times

[turbid hearth]

Sword is my best weapon actually

Poseidon aspect feels like cheating

[paper pawn]

oh i love the sword don't get me wrong, I just hate the asphodel enemies in the lava

[bleak pendant]

Poseidon aspect is great for sword

Prob the best one

It allows you to spam casts

Plus 50% cast damage

[paper pawn]

so i had to learn spear and now it's my new bestie

[bleak pendant]

It’s super nice

[turbid hearth]

Spear is my secod favorite, Hades aspect

[bleak pendant]

I think bow is my main

But shield is just so OP

Compared to the rest

Like, you just nullify any boss or encounter

It’s ridiculous

[slate zenith]

I mostly like that all the weapons are incredible and fun with certain aspects

[bleak pendant]

I don’t have to try

Yeah

Everything has so many combinations. I’ve done 40 runs but I still haven’t seen everything cool there is

[paper pawn]

yeah the aspects add so many combination layers to it

on top of the already existing stuff through boons/hammers

[bleak pendant]

Chaos boons too

[paper pawn]

argh

this game is the biggest onion

[bleak pendant]

What happened?

Oh

Never mind

[paper pawn]

LOL

[slate zenith]

some of the chaos boons are gamechangers, yeah

[bleak pendant]

totally didn’t think you just called the game an onion as an insult

Yeah. I haven’t seen the defiance charge one yet

[runic terrace]

[unreal flax]

damn onion of a game

[paper pawn]

you're an onion

[runic terrace]

gets hit in a no hit room and hades gives me hades the videogame

is onion still the evil prize there ive never been to it since they heat-locked the gates

[paper pawn]

yes

and achilles' codex entry for it

[runic terrace]

good hdhfhf

[paper pawn]

is still killing me

every time i read it

[runic terrace]

YESSS

achilles: i will not eat them at a war, i will not eat them with a boar, i will not eat an onion cooked, i will not eat them with a book,

[paper pawn]

I now see many scenes of patroclus trying to get achilles to eat an onion back when they were alive

and achilles just picks them out religiously

"But they're HEALTHY for you achilles"

"THESE ARE LIES"

[runic terrace]

YESSSS

pat has to like. sneak them into mashed potatoes like hes trying to follow a cookbook for kids who dont like vegetables kdjdjfhc

[paper pawn]

kjdjfdf exactly

[unreal flax]

achilles smells them anyway

he smells weakness

[paper pawn]

crying

[unreal flax]

FROM THE ONION

[paper pawn]

omg

[indigo sable]

How many tiers do Weapon Aspects have?

[paper pawn]

i think 5 each

yeah lv 5

[indigo sable]

thanks

God, the Hades Spear is so brutal

Just wish it would use the default skin

[paper pawn]

oh yeah hades spear is nice

i wish there was a line for when you kill hades with his own previous spear

[indigo sable]

It's hard to have a line for literally everything

though the devs have gotten pretty close

[paper pawn]

oh yeah bless them

it's crazy how much they got in

[unreal flax]

closer than most triple A games nowsaday

[indigo sable]

the reduced choice pact of pain

[paper pawn]

i live for many lines and character design

[indigo sable]

always leaves 1 minimum, right?

[paper pawn]

yeah

[indigo sable]

Oh wait, I completely misunderstood the wording.

I though it was picking room exits

[paper pawn]

oh if only it was that kind

[indigo sable]

Yeah the actual wording can be kinda brutal

There's no way to cancel out of a boon choice, right?

[paper pawn]

i don't think so, once you decide to interact with the boon you have to take one

actually yeah you can't period, because you can't exit until you pick up the boon

hah

[bleak pendant]

You can’t progress unless you take the boon too

Unless it’s Charon

[paper pawn]

ye

[bleak pendant]

You could however use the heat choice that removes your boons every stairwell

Well, one of them

[paper pawn]

you can just sell all selected boons every time

[bleak pendant]

That too

[indigo sable]

Yeah, there's not really a bad boons from what I've seen

[bleak pendant]

Well

[indigo sable]

but replacing a good boon

can suck pretty bad

[bleak pendant]

You ever heard of blade dash?

[indigo sable]

the swirly Ares dash?

[formal ivy]

love Blade Dash

[indigo sable]

is there a way that can be harmful?

[formal ivy]

won me my first run

[indigo sable]

by "bad" i mean actively make you worse

instead of just being low value or useless

[slate zenith]

Ares' cast gets deadly real fast if you get black metal and Arty's homing power

[bleak pendant]

Quick draw sometimes

Depends on your mirror and builds

As it removes stones earlier

That can suck

[formal ivy]

sometimes knockback is counteractive with your close range weapon/skills

[indigo sable]

some of the casts that make your cast not stick to enemies I guess

[formal ivy]

smack them, oop you have to chase again

[bleak pendant]

Yeah

[indigo sable]

but even those are frontloaded

I love knockback

[bleak pendant]

The revenge boons

[indigo sable]

chain knocking enemies into walls

[bleak pendant]

While you don’t have vengeful mood

Suck

Yeah, knock back is fun for clearing rooms

[indigo sable]

Well I'm bad and I get hit a lot, so not as bad for me

[bleak pendant]

Understandable

[indigo sable]

Should I be rerolling Poms of Power?

unless I have something particularly good I want to go all-in on

[paper pawn]

yeah probably

[indigo sable]

I feel like Daedalus hammers are singlehandedly carrying me on most runs

[paper pawn]

i love runs where multiple hammers pop up, stacked hammers are broken

[bleak pendant]

You are pretty much guaranteed 2 hammers

1 in Elysium

And one prior

You sometimes have a choice

But you should pretty much always go hammer

[paper pawn]

oh that's why, I always thought it was pure rng for hammers too

so i never counted the times i got them

[indigo sable]

Can you get more than 2?

Consulting the wiki apparently not

[bleak pendant]

Don’t think so

[indigo sable]

You're always offered 1 in Elysium and 1 before.

[bleak pendant]

You shouldn’t be able to at least

[paper pawn]

i guess it wouldn't ever appear in charon's shop after you snag two hammers?

[indigo sable]

If you skip one being offered you may or may not be offered it aggain

it seems that way

[bleak pendant]

Yeah

I think missed ones have a chance in shop

Like if you accidentally chaos past one or something

That reminds me of how once I grabbed a kiss of Styx without realizing that patro was next room

I was pretty mad

[paper pawn]

okay does anyone know what the conditions are to trigger this damn dionysus line because orpheus is singing again for me

[bleak pendant]

At myself of course

Which one?

[paper pawn]

but I still don't get the line where dionysus talks to you about it

and gives you the last song

[atomic forge]

i got my first in elysium the other day, none appeared in aspho or tartarus

[paper pawn]

in orpheus' music stand

[bleak pendant]

I’m not sure, sorry

[paper pawn]

yeah the wiki just says after orpheus starts singing

[bleak pendant]

I don’t even have his stand

[paper pawn]

but he's been wailing away in here for ages and i've been forcing dio at every chance

[bleak pendant]

I burned my gemstones on keys so I don’t have to grab keys anymore unless I want a refill

Reroll*

[paper pawn]

wow did you get all the decorations for the house alreayd

bout to ask for a screenshot so i can see what this stupid fountain looks like qq

[bleak pendant]

No, I didn’t bother with much of the cosmetics

[paper pawn]

ooo

[atomic forge]

https://discordapp.com/channels/456889434672201729/520429929721233464/656579004471705631

[bleak pendant]

I grabbed the underworld renovations

[atomic forge]

western fountain

[bleak pendant]

And then most of the diamond costed things

[paper pawn]

omg the fountain i must have it now

[oak kindle]

sisyphus is best summon

fact

with shady

he drops in,deals 1k damage and drops darkness,food and money

[shy rune]

how do you trigger his quest?

[oak kindle]

talk to him a lot

also give him nectar

[shy rune]

ye the heart icon has been locked now for the last couple times ive spoken to him

[oak kindle]

did you speak to other people too

like meg

hades

you need to talk to everyone

[shy rune]

i always do. everyone with an exclamation mark on top of their heads

already unlocked thanatos and skelly, but dont know how to trigger sisyphus's quest

[whole path]

Has anyone unlocked any of the "Secret Stash" keepsakes?

[bleak pendant]

Many have

Smug has

I know of them, but i havent been bothered to go get them yet

[twilit goblet]

which npcs have legendary keepsakes

[shy rune]

sisy, than, meg, skelly

[fervent jackal]

hmpf x_X died to the hydra so many times, beat the minotaurus and his guy on the first try.. weird..

how many more bosses are there? :S

[atomic forge]

one

and you'll probably get slapped there

[fervent jackal]

nope, got slapped before that x_X

[atomic forge]

there is no escape

[fervent jackal]

but well, furthest run ever \o\

[atomic forge]

grats, you'll probably reach the boss next time you're up there

[autumn warren]

heeey! just cleared the game for the first time 😄 let's get on hell mode now and try to get a 100% cleared savefile

17 runs, pretty good

[atomic forge]

@autumn warren Which weapon did you use?

[autumn warren]

spear ! with aphrodite boons

went against hades with 300hp and all 3 revives, when I killed him I had like 50hp and 1 revive left it was pretty safe

wow okay mobs hits so much harder , this is going to be fun

[proper cairn]

oh man

i got my switch working, but now its time to play some hades

[autumn warren]

can anyone tells me how budget cuts works? I don't quite get it, it reduces my mirror benefits? what does that mean?

I'm locked to a certain amount of usable obsidian for it?

[proper cairn]

obsidian? its darkness yo

and yes it cuts the darkness you have put in by the ammount it says

[autumn warren]

oh, it's called obsidian in the french translation

[proper cairn]

oh

okay

[rough swift]

don't know where to place this but wanted to share that on my 3rd run i managed to get to Hades

and feeling pretty happy (died to him though)

(40 damage per mistake is no joke)

[proper cairn]

good job

[rough swift]

thank you!

[formal ivy]

finally cleared with all 5 weapons! sword feels so much more dangerous in the final fight, I usually snipe from far with every other weapon

[proper cairn]

sword is so easy though lol

i have one more mirror skill

only need 25 more keys

[twilit goblet]

i am a shield main

too good

[proper cairn]

so they do exist

the mythological creatures

[formal ivy]

sword mains

[indigo sable]

repeatedly bashing enemies against a wall with the shield is an experience few can compare to

How hard is Extreme Measures?

And which Pacts are generally easiest/hardest?

[soft iris]

[formal ivy]

And which Pacts are generally easiest/hardest
Wanted to ask the same question, I've been doing the "ignores first instance of damage" first to get blood since it seems minimally impactful compared to the rest (unless you're doing some slow heavy/crit build, you're probably spamming damage left and right so it doesn't affect much?)

[onyx spoke]

@indigo sable first rank of extreme measures varies from "slightly more difficult furies" to "slightly even more difficult furies"
second rank is easily the hardest and will make you hate life
third rank is the middle ground

[indigo sable]

@formal ivy that's my secret, I'm always doing slow/crit builds

unless I'm doing fast/crit builds

Is it only Furies it works on?

[formal ivy]

my first clear was railgun with extra arrows and stacking attack doom, so

[indigo sable]

You can only stack doom if you have the one boon that increases stack damage, right?

[jovial fossil]

each rank of extreme measures makes a boss harder
rank 1 furies, rank 2 hydra, rank 3 heros

[indigo sable]

I can see why rank 2 would make you hate life

[rapid zinc]

Rank 2 is significantly harder than rank 3, for me. It does give up to 5 heat, though, which is not bad

[full anchor]

I have not tried it yet 👀

[rapid zinc]

The upgraded hydra fight is... intense

[jovial fossil]

rank 1 is basically free heat
rank 2 is the worst
rank 3 is harder but dealable with

[rapid zinc]

^^^^

[full anchor]

yeah 1 has been easy

[high grove]

I just decided to hop into the discord because I just reached the upgraded hydra fight and was going to say I absolutely love it. I find the un-upgraded fight boring and tedious but this is a blast.

Good timing to see y'all discussing it.

[formal ivy]

does the pin-up board in the lounge (in front of the trader) have any interacts so far?

[full anchor]

Not that I know of. The first time I saw it I thought it would change as the story progressed

[formal ivy]

I vaguely recall being able to inspect it at one point, not sure if that was a fever dream

[runic terrace]

jhgvhjfjhfjh i love that its always thanny's turn to be employee of the month

hes always the favorite....jhgvjhfj

[high grove]

#DUSAforEoM

[runic terrace]

honestly she deserves it!!!

[grand mantle]

Dusa's a sweetheart and the hardest worker!

No wonder the House is spotless XD

[high grove]

Her Codex entry is adorable.

[grand mantle]

I... actually never read it. Will have to once I'm home tonight! The way she reacts to Zag being nearby is way cute 😛

[slow notch]

i love when zag asks the medusa heads in asphodel to be more like dusa

[grand mantle]

Also, Cerberus is the best boy, hey?

[runic terrace]

he is!!!

[grand mantle]

https://sigeel.tumblr.com/post/187292211398/a-good-boy

Relevant!

[turbid hearth]

I think it's fitting that Dusa dusts and polishes and shines so well that you can see your reflection everywhere...

[atomic forge]

I didn't know if this was a spoiler or not but I wanted to ask: when you guys find a build that works to go through heats do you stick with that build or just go with whatever you get

granted I haven't experimented with too many builds yet

[indigo sable]

I just do whatever I feel like doing at the time

without a specific goal like reaching highest heat possible

[atomic forge]

ah I see, it's just that I feel like I might as well go for the highest heat I can do

and as a consequence it makes me think I should use the best build I can put together to beat it

[indigo sable]

Go for it, if you're a leaderboard kind of person

[atomic forge]

I'm not but I need the rewards

[grand mantle]

I always aim for high heat, not specifically for leaderboards. It's the Titan Blood grind for me 😛

[atomic forge]

yeah me too

[ripe marten]

Just cleared it for the first time 😀

[grand mantle]

Nicely done 😄

[atomic forge]

congrats!

[grand mantle]

So many new players!

Great stuff 😛

[atomic forge]

I think many like me are coming from steam release

[ripe marten]

@atomic forge I did

[atomic forge]

:p

[turbid hearth]

woah I just got two legendary boons in one fight

that's incredible

[formal ivy]

I love the text for when you get past Cerberus.
Furies? Vanquished
Hydra? Vanquished
Heroes? Vanquished
Cerberus? Abandoned

[runic terrace]

(his post)

[atomic forge]

My favorite is Cerberus Conquered (his hunger)

Or Cerberus Bribed (It is Bribery)

[tranquil widget]

Cerberus Vanquished (his appetite) is still my fav

[turbid hearth]

(the sack is full of vermin)

[hollow garden]

I remember when i first saw Cerberus Vanquished (not really)

[stone pasture]

He's a gud boi I'm glad we dont fight him

[atomic forge]

I remember when that update first was released and I walked into that chamber and I went "Oh nooo!" but thankfully Cerberus' stomach overpowers his sense of duty.

[shy warren]

Did you guys know when you use the sword, if you use the special and straight after use dash, you can use an instant special dash combo, not only its faster but its a dash with an attack 😮

sword just become awesome from trash with that xD

[dull saddle]

uh, got a question, how do you actually complete the useless trinkets fated list

[orchid panther]

you mean equip them all and exit the case each time in the skelly area before you leave?

or is it another one I'm not thinking of

[dull saddle]

there's a requirement on the fated list the task is called "The Useless Trinket"

"the son of the god of the dead will someday earn a magnificent tribute from having achieved victory despite the pact of punishment."

[orchid panther]

oHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

how much heat have you cleared on?

like what is your max heat to beat a run with

[dull saddle]

only 1

[orchid panther]

do you care about spoils? I would guess not if we're in this channel

[shy rune]

holy balls! Ares Cast + Hunting Blades + Burst Shot is OP af. I just shredded Hades without losing a single life

[orchid panther]

yep!

did that just earlier today

[dull saddle]

hmm

is there a way to tell me how to get it without spoilers?

if not just spoil it

[orchid panther]

keep clearing with heat

[dull saddle]

ok

that works

[orchid panther]

you'll find out after I'm not sure how high

not too high iirc

good luck, I recommend bow

[dull saddle]

thansk

thanks*

[orchid panther]

no worries

[unreal wyvern]

So uh... Does Artemis have a crush on Zagreus or something? Since it's Greek Mythology, I wouldn't be surprised if Artemis would be tsundere-ing over her cousin.

[merry sorrel]

I thought she just wanted a friend, but possible?

Most of the Olympians are using Zag as both charity case and entertainment

[atomic forge]

On the topic of Artemis.
The Olympians think very little of the underworld.
Athena says something like "Here on Olympus is the opposite of the wretched squalor of the underworld you've had to live in"
Now as much as Zagreus doesnt want to be there. He does have friends (and possibly lovers) there and he has had good times.
The Olympians are going to be pretty dismissive of Zagreus wanting anything outside Olympus. They seem rather prejudiced to me.
Except for Artemis. She is the only god actually interested in the underworld.
She says something akin to "Maybe once you are free you can tell me about your life down there"

[stone pasture]

She talks in her dialogue about how they're both outcasts, so maybe she thinks she finally found someone who understands her

[merry sorrel]

So Elysium might even be to her taste

Though her forests might be better

[atomic forge]

Elysium looks nice, and maybe if Artemis carved out a place by herself like Patroclus has, sure. But otherwise you're surrounded by people like Theseus.

[merry sorrel]

...somehow I forgot about that

Theseus will get on Artemis’s nerves so much

[dull saddle]

wow, i guess they meant it when they said useless trinkets

[ocean thistle]

Theseus gets on my nerves too lol

[proper cairn]

i just detoxed my pc

[autumn warren]

over my 20 runs I met thanatos like once, is he really rare or scripted every x runs?

[atomic forge]

Rare.

[proper cairn]

rip

[autumn warren]

I really like his character design, wish I'd see him more often lol

[jovial fossil]

You need to have taken damage in the last couple of rooms for him to show up

[shy rune]

not that rare. got him on escape 8. got his legendary at like 25

[jovial fossil]

I think if you take damage 3 rooms in a row, he's more likely to spawn

so if you're playing well he's rare

[autumn warren]

when I met him it was in the 3rd biome, after hydra, do he only spawns there?

[jovial fossil]

i've had him show up everywhere but styx

[green oar]

I love how Hades spoil Cerberus

[slow notch]

I've seen him everywhere but styx.

[hollow garden]

He can't spawn in Styx due to the unique structure of the biome.

[main gulch]

you probably see him more in Elysium since he has a chance to spawn after you take damage and you're probaby getting hit more frequently in Elysium than the other two before

[rugged summit]

I think Thanatos spawn is based on the seed as well as how badly you are doing, I flawless clear Tartarus and he still spawns in it

[turbid hearth]

I see Than most often in Asphodel

he loves to AOE those zombies

[hollow garden]

Thanatos is unable to spawn unless you take damage in a previous room (1-5 rooms ago I believe is the condition)

besides that its purely random chance (well, seed based I presume but /shrug)

here they are

Must have taken damage within the past 5 chambers
Must be at least 10 chambers into Tartarus, 2 chambers into Asphodel, or 3 chambers into Elysium```

taken from the wiki, I don't think Than's spawn mechanic has ever been changed (but its worth looking into)

[paper pawn]

than appears to help

Than (to the monsters): I'll send you to the lowest depths.
Zag: I'll also do that.

Player: facepalm

why do you like this potato, than

[atomic forge]

"Together, we bring death."

"...Yeah."

Zagreus makes up for his supreme taterosity by being incredibly kind and gentle until you give him a reason to not be.

He's me and seeing him be both an exceeding badass and total dork in the same breath is fulfilling.

[paper pawn]

"Get ready to die again."

"He's not kidding you know!"

Bless than for always silently putting up with the dork

[atomic forge]

"silently"

He spends the first 80% of all of his dialog ripping Zagreus for leaving, because Than has to help (even after Zag tells him not to if it will get him in trouble), and oh my god why couldn't he just stay and not get Than into all this trouble?

[paper pawn]

yes, all of this

thank goodness than is literally not replaceable so hades can't even do much more than grouse at him

"You really think you can beat me?"

Zag's chance for a badass retort: "Occasionally, yes."

Sigh

[atomic forge]

I've been lied to my whole life about my mother, you jag, stop making this about you.

[paper pawn]

Maybe it's just me reading too much into it, but I've always found the mother thing shocking to Zag, but kind of peripheral to his compilation of reasons to leave and more like the last thing that pushed him there

since he doesn't know a thing about her

[runic terrace]

yeah, same here

it seems to me like a sort of easy coverup for admitting "im being treated so badly i cant stand it"

[paper pawn]

it's more like a really strong excuse to leave

yeah exactly

[runic terrace]

with a built in "-and my mom will fix that!!"

[paper pawn]

"Even though I have NO IDEA what she's like!"

[atomic forge]

I see it more as "I've always felt like never belonged here, now I might have the root cause."

[runic terrace]

and then thanny swoops in with his inability to realize that the way he experiences the house is not the way zag does for many many reasons! and if zag can make everything bearable for than it should go the other way around, right, except totally not

[paper pawn]

poor thanny

[runic terrace]

not because than isnt good enough but because zag is in a totally different situation.
poor both of them 😔

[paper pawn]

oh yeah that's totally valid, there's a ton of ways to read this coming of age story tbh I like all the ideas

though it kinda reminds me of general greek themes like hero story, hero journey

hero discovery/brush with death

or lots of it in z's case

and then usually some kind of return home triumphant

[runic terrace]

brush with death (zag pats than on the shoulder as he walks past)

ahhh

[paper pawn]

yeaah! it's like all those segments where the hero of the greek story has to traverse the underworld or face death head on, except that's where we start instead of end lol

so i guess kind of in reverse

[runic terrace]

for all that than hates the surface he really discounts its role in allowing him to remain a distant figure to the house of hades that keeps hades from ever really laying into him the way he does with house constants

[paper pawn]

except doge, because doge is best

[runic terrace]

except doge!!

[atomic forge]

"Sure glad I can get away pretty freely when Hades starts rampaging. Hey, why does Zagreus wanna leave?"

[paper pawn]

LOL

[runic terrace]

YEAH, exactly. and he's treated different from the getgo w. his pic on the wall, its the difference between hearing a friend complain about their parents when theyve always been perfectly nice to you on visits vs being that child.

but at the same time, zag was the key to making the house bearable for than, and he's not used to loss whatsoever

[paper pawn]

yeah than comes off pretty insensitive to it at first, but I still found it endearing because it sounded like he was throwing a temper tantrum that his best friend was leaving

cute as heck

[runic terrace]

its like kicking his legs out from under him to go home and oh, havent you heard?
YES THATS EXACTLY IT

when ur bestie moves away :'((

[atomic forge]

Thanatos, embodiment of the ultimate irreversible mortal loss, can't deal with it himself.

[runic terrace]

YUP, I LOVE THAT

[atomic forge]

Little more than bestie, in some cases.

[runic terrace]

we see it with mort too!

[paper pawn]

oh yeah what was that line

[runic terrace]

well, at the time thats how they thought of each other! until WHAT ARE ALL THESE FEELINGS OH- IS THIS LOVE OOPS

[paper pawn]

something about how he lost mort once and searched for it all over? or am i remembering it wrong

[runic terrace]

yeah!!

its like.....he knows what death is, he knows its not scary, he just needs to understand that "i lost my stuffed animal and im so torn up about it" is a form of the same emotion these mortals are feeling

[paper pawn]

i love that zag has now become the new stuffed animal while than works this out

[runic terrace]

and for the record, like... "my best friend is moving out and i think i might have feelings for him but if we're separated i will never get to know if this even could work out?? is like................another feeling people could have over death of their friends. he's got to feel it in bite sized chunks becasue he doesnt understand how the concept is upsetting...

hjgfjfhjfhj than would love a lil stuffed animal zag but HE WOULD NEVER TELL

[paper pawn]

someone give one to him ANYWAY

watch him keep it on him constantly while reaping

[runic terrace]

YESSSSS

a lil puppy with red and green eyes

[paper pawn]

I want to hope this will have multiple endings, because Transistor's ending made sense but was so bittersweet I couldn't handle it here

SG loves their bittersweet endings qq

[runic terrace]

falls out of than's pockets
zag: whats that
than: no no im holding it for....a friend!!
zag: .....hermes has a tiny plushie of me?
than: ...not that friend
zag: ...............meg has a tiny plushie of me??
than: ....not that friend
zag: ...........................ares has a tiny-
than: FINE ITS MINE

[paper pawn]

I need this scene canon now

petition

[runic terrace]

[atomic forge]

I think this game is supposed to be more lighthearted, so I'm hoping for an unambiguously happy ending.

[runic terrace]

gregs offline, quick make everything you want canon (JK JK JK I KNOW IT DOESNT WORK LIKE THAT)

[main gulch]

it does if you believe hard enough

[atomic forge]

Guys, all the plushies are representations of the characters. Than would obviously have a little Cerberus made to represent Zagreus.

[paper pawn]

please I'd be a puddle of sopping tears if this is another sad ending

transistor got me so hard, i can't do it again here SG you hear???

just let them be happy

[main gulch]

implying if it's a really happy ending i won't cry anyway

[paper pawn]

LOL it's true

[merry sorrel]

if zag dies on the surface he would be back home but also back to meg/than/dusa/cerberus/nyx/etc.

so far it looks like either way it could be bittersweet

[runic terrace]

maybe he can stop by and visit......for half the year....................i wonder if anyones done that before,

[main gulch]

pls gib ending where zag and hades make up

[runic terrace]

😭 😭 ending where hades makes any sort of improvement in how he treats zag and they go on mutually respectful terms

[paper pawn]

pls gib multiple endings, i actually really liked how many different results I could get from pyre

my only sorrow was that half the people are trapped still

qqqqqq

[runic terrace]

like whatever the zag and hades end is i just need like ANYTHING other than "well hes your father and he means well so you have to bear it and love him anyway." like....i just want it to feel freeing and kind to zag ;;;;;;;;

[main gulch]

ending where hades was trying to stop zagreus from leaving because he reminds him of persephone and he would miss him as much as he misses her if he left too

[atomic forge]

No. Abso-h*cking-lutely not, "you have to bear it."

If there is abuse there is not love.

[runic terrace]

YEAH 😤 👏 YOU GET IT!!!!

[atomic forge]

Don't ever ever take it.

[runic terrace]

💯

[paper pawn]

I trust in SG writing powers, they've never let me down in resolving things in a way that's good for the story

QQQQQ

but that also means they don't shy away from "bad" endings if it calls for it

[atomic forge]

There's no way they would go that route, but abuse makes me go Super Saiyan and I gotta say something.

[runic terrace]

IM LOOKING AT SG WRITING POWERS LIKE,,,, PLEASE CARRY THIS STORY WELL MY LIFE IS IN UR HANDS

[shrewd saffron]

Hades has already admitted that he can't break out of hell, so some kind of grudging respect for getting out would be the most I'd expect, making up doesn't seem compatible with their relationship

[main gulch]

maybe if zagreus understands why hades couldn't break out of hell

[atomic forge]

I can't think of a single story beat that SGG has done that has made me go "Ew, that was distasteful."

[main gulch]

and hades was saving him some kind of suffering

[paper pawn]

I think even an ending where hades apologizes would be a good start

[runic terrace]

the first time fighting hades when big bad update dropped was incredible, seeing zag lay out all the things hades has done to him 😭

[paper pawn]

even if there's nothing more shown and left to the imagination

[shrewd saffron]

Apparently (Hades said in the last fight I had with him) you disintegrate upon leaving the threshold of hell

• I'm guessing Olympus will need to intervene to let Zag through without disintegrating

[main gulch]

might be placeholder dialogue

[shrewd saffron]

Or just parental "scare stories"

[atomic forge]

I imagine, if they do "make up," they will go to a strictly professional relationship. Not familial, barely even familiar, but while Hades will still be Hades, he won't be malicious like he is right now.

[runic terrace]

yeah, that would be ideal i think

its the best to hope for, anyway

[atomic forge]

Less "Shout as Hypnos for falling asleep," more "Get Cerberus to bark at Hypnos to wake him up, but deadpan the entire thing."

[paper pawn]

did he say disintegrate? man I never got that line

[runic terrace]

jhgvhjfvhjfhj

yeah me either

[shrewd saffron]

Not sure if that was the exact words, break apart I think

[atomic forge]

But Hades isn't even trying to be funny, he just finds that the quickest and most effective way, and if Than pees himself laughing every time so be it.

[shrewd saffron]

• but basically you won't survive the exit, so I'm gonna save you from that

[main gulch]

i recall him saying something about crossing the threshold and dying but i can't remember the exact words

i thought it was placeholder since you die in some ridiculous way every time you go through that door

[runic terrace]

ok im tired and emotional and also it is midnight good night and rock on everybody 💤

[atomic forge]

Night, Kam!

[paper pawn]

yeah if that's the line I vaguely recall it was more like he thinks Zag will die anyway even if he gets out so what's the point kind of implication

[main gulch]

nini

[paper pawn]

night kam!

[atomic forge]

Fighting him to the death instead of just letting him hit the wall and come back sends the wrong message, though.

If Zagreus really can't escape, just let him go. He'll be back no matter what.

There's something else going on.

[shrewd saffron]

It's not a wall though, Hades says that you cease to exist upon exiting, so you can go through

[atomic forge]

Metaphorical wall.

[shrewd saffron]

Although it's possible the reason Hades couldn't get out is that Olympus intervened to stop him, and he doesn't want to admit that

• which would be in character

Just dying wouldn't matter to Zag, he's done that a million times before, breaking apart upon leaving, that matters more.

[atomic forge]

I don't know what you're talking about.

I haven't seen this line, either.

[shrewd saffron]

I'm guessing the line is pretty new - saw it for the first time today

[merry sorrel]

if that was the reason all hades had to do was to tell zag, and than would be able to confirm

yet hades hadn't used that to stop him in the first place, so there might be more reasons

[paper pawn]

I believe the line is the one where he says "you perish upon leaving" or something involving that word, or is that a diff line?

[shrewd saffron]

That sounds like it

[paper pawn]

yeah i didn't read that one as literally, i thought it just meant hades was saying you die in the world outside anyway

leaving it a little ambiguous since the rest isn't done yet

[shrewd saffron]

Although until I read the line, I assumed that the fight took place in the outside world, but the mention of another threshold to cross suggested that we hadn't got there yet

[paper pawn]

yeah it's not really the outside world just yet it seems, kinda like you're super close

at the surface, but not IN the mortal realm

not until you cross that gate it seems

a lot of the joke endings for now are stories about how zagreus was exploring a farm and stepped on a tool or how he was crossing a busy street and got hit by a chariot or something so I assume beyond that gate is the world of man proper

[shrewd saffron]

I haven't seen those, I've only beat Hades twice in previous patches

(saw Hades denying losing, which was pretty funny though)

[paper pawn]

ah yeah if you keep killing hades you'll get the joke endings about how zagreus wandering around in the human world and slipping on a banana peel and dying etc.

[shrewd saffron]

Maybe I should play w/out punishment more...

[paper pawn]

there's actually...an awful lot of placeholder endings...

it's quite incredible

[atomic forge]

Must have more.

[shrewd saffron]

I do like the SG stories though. Bastion and Transistor were great, and Hades seems to be the same - had a lot of fun just dying 🙂

[paper pawn]

I think my favorite is the one where he just jumps into a blood red pool

because someone asked

and zag goes "oh sure"

and then dies lol

[shrewd saffron]

That sounds too ridiculous

[paper pawn]

it's all meant to be super stupid endings for now because the real ending isn't here

so the narrator has to come up with

a bunch of ways to kill him

lol

[shrewd saffron]

I guess it beats "Zag dies anyway, try again"

[paper pawn]

I really enjoy them, Zag's a dork

he would totally get run over on a busy street

[graceful wharf]

well he did step on a farming tool and died once

[shrewd saffron]

Yeah, Hades is stuck a long way in the past - the firearm is a mythical weapon in a mythical world!

[green oar]

Hades doesnt want zag to find his mom

[paper pawn]

the banana peel one is a classic though

just slip so hard on a banana peel you fall backwards and die

those damn hazardous peels

[graceful wharf]

dang i haven't seen it i think

[shrewd saffron]

I guess Hades does have dead working for him, so they can arrange ridiculous deaths 😛

death

[paper pawn]

it's the one where he steps on the exotic, sallow-colored peel

[merry sorrel]

that implies than was doing all taht

[green oar]

Imagine thanatos become one of the boss

[shrewd saffron]

(not being entirely serious with that)

[paper pawn]

no it implies than shows up and is disappointed

every time

"this is how you died?"

sigh

oh wait

there was also one where

he ran headlong into a wall that was painted to look like an exit

and then died

yes that one also one of my favorites

[shrewd saffron]

🤣

[paper pawn]

zag runs so fast

just hits a wall and dies

[shrewd saffron]

Disadvantage of having a boon from Hermes

[paper pawn]

omg

[merry sorrel]

I guess the intangibility of his dash does not work with surface gate

[atomic forge]

Zagreus Aspect Stygius, then hack in infinite Hermes boons. Greater Haste, Second Wind, and Drift Dash.

[graceful wharf]

Zag is like Perry the platypus, escapes from all the advanced traps without a scratch but falls to the most obvious and primitive ones

[paper pawn]

y is he like this

[graceful wharf]

because he is too polite

[paper pawn]

cry

[merry sorrel]

he forgot to take the posters from his room

those posters were not cheap

[paper pawn]

i'm surprised than/meg don't comment on his taste in wall scrolls when they pop up in his room

[shrewd saffron]

What would Zag even do in the outside world after he's found his mum and said hi to the Olympians - he doesn't seem like the type to rest in luxury, he might get a bit lost in himself and become the "disrepected god" :/

respected

He'd do really well as an "independent contractor" helping out in hell, but I'm not sure he'd ever be able to work with Hades

[paper pawn]

well in the end of the thanatos codex entry, achilles suspects zagreus is the god of blood since he hasn't found his domain thus far

and zagreus seems a bit panicked

and says he's not the god of anything when confronting achilles about the entry

so there's some foreshadowing

[shrewd saffron]

Oh, wow! That is one scary aspect to have

Although that makes him pretty perfect for being part of the system that sends souls to hell

[paper pawn]

his exact line seems like he's insisting because he says "I'm not the god of anything, all right?"

so it seems a bit like he's really trying to avoid whatever responsibilities come of having a domain

[atomic forge]

Definitely not that.

It's an inferiority complex.

[paper pawn]

oh yeah, that's good

like he's afraid he can't handle having a domain that he needs to be a god of

[atomic forge]

There you go.

He's so considerate to everyone around him (except Hades and everyone who tries to stop him from escaping, because duh), and that he's left his room a mess specifically to annoy Hades that he doesn't come across at all as trying to avoid responsibility.

He is, technically, but like you said, because he's afraid he can't handle it, not because he doesn't want to work.

[green oar]

can other god beside Zagreus use other god's power ?

[paper pawn]

yeah theseus summons boons all the dang time

[atomic forge]

Theseus will invoke an Olympian you don't have on your run.

Let's just all be happy he doesn't invoke them the way Trials do.

[shrewd saffron]

It's a very protective behaviour, covering up how he feels - all we know is that he wants to escape, presumably because hell is "hell", although being driven to do it to satisfy the requirements of his domain isn't impossible.

Theseus isn't a god, he's a fallen hero

[merry sorrel]

Theseus has no drive to escape hades, only zag does

[rocky ledge]

I'd find it funny if he was the god of blood

since he always gets sent back to the pool of blood every time he dies

[paper pawn]

well, achilles specifies that his interpretation of blood = life, god of blood/life

[rocky ledge]

although admittedly everyone gets sent there

[shrewd saffron]

• Zag is the only deity with the ability, or maybe the only one the gods tried to share their powers with, as he doesn't appear to pose a threat to any of their positions of power

[paper pawn]

it's big shoes to fill if that's the case

[merry sorrel]

the drive to reach the surface for the idea of a mother seems almost like life trying to come out of the womb

[shrewd saffron]

God of life born from the overlord of death is poetic

[rocky ledge]

that's quite an interesting take

[green oar]

Now that you think about it

Zagreus might be Zeus's son instead of hades

[paper pawn]

i'm always suspect of SG songs because the lyrics are so carefully written and usually hint at the story, so hopefully the hymn to zagreus song is meaningless since it comes as part of a prank...

[atomic forge]

Zagreus is Hades' son.

His Codex entry settles the matter.

[green oar]

Hades just did a favor for Persephone

[merry sorrel]

family is more than biology

both zagreus and hades consider each other father and son, so that settles it

[rocky ledge]

it would seem a pretty convoluted plot twist if zeus was his actual father too

[green oar]

like the actual Myth

[rocky ledge]

like a big part of the tension in the dynamic between zag and hades is they're father and son

welp

[atomic forge]

Zagreus is poorly defined in Greek mythology.

[merry sorrel]

(zeus was indeed the father in myth)

[rocky ledge]

see how faithful they are I suppose

[atomic forge]

It's part of the reason he was chosen for the protagonist in Hades.

Anyway, Demeter is associated with the the cycle of life and death.

[merry sorrel]

(except one line, where Zagreus the Great Hunter was son of Hades)

[atomic forge]

Not necessarily the goddess about it, but it's important to her cult.

[green oar]

It is implied something happen to Persephone

[shrewd saffron]

Wouldn't SG have picked Zag because they can play with the story - I think they said they were flexible in what they used, or something

[green oar]

And no one know Zagreus

Until nyx tell olympian

[shrewd saffron]

I'd say Chaos would be the most reliable source

[merry sorrel]

(persephone did not consent to bear zeus' child, she was not being unfaithful)

(and it was suspected that zeus immediately married persephone off to hades after getting her pregnant)

[rocky ledge]

i'd agree with that, chaos should be privy to this stuff

[merry sorrel]

chaos, and maybe nyx

[rocky ledge]

wasn't persephone stolen by Hades though?

[atomic forge]

Anyway, Zagreus more directly being the god of life, born out of the union of the god of the dead and a family line associated with life (harvest, springtime), would be thematically appropriate.

[rocky ledge]

maybe need to read specifics again

[shrewd saffron]

Chaos existed before everyone, and the others try to ignore its existence, probably because it knows so much that it can cause chaos (excuse the pun) just by speaking the truth

[green oar]

In the first ending when we beat Hades

[atomic forge]

These myths won't tell us exactly what the story beats in the game will be.

[green oar]

Hades ask him to do them a favor

[merry sorrel]

(persephone was "stolen" with permission from zeus, it was tradition)

[green oar]

It is implied that Hades loved Persephone

[merry sorrel]

Hades always loved Persephone

[rocky ledge]

really looking forward to the final ending

and possibly the 'true' ending if that ends up being a thing

[green oar]

Well its the game, so we follow the game lore, it doesnt implied until the first ending

[shrewd saffron]

Most of these myths have multiple variations, from different points in time when they were told, so SG has a lot to choose from, and can't really have a "wrong" ending

[green oar]

Inb4 zeus is the last boss

[paper pawn]

but it still seems strange to me that persephone's note doesn't mention anything about her own son, just cerberus, that's what I want answered most

[merry sorrel]

nice to have zag being a much braver Adonis or Dumuzi

[green oar]

Its still early access, so the dev could change the codex stuff in the future

[rocky ledge]

bit off topic but how do you get permissions for hades feedback?

and yeah they may yet add new characters which could affect things too

persephone being an obvious candidate

[green oar]

Apollo

[rocky ledge]

get a full codex entry from her

that would be useful

[green oar]

Need that sexy sun power

[rocky ledge]

yeah surprised he's not in already tbh

although Helios may be more apt if you're talking about the sun

[merry sorrel]

I have a feeling that I won't like Apollo very much

if Helios can do just take him, though if Helios shows up shouldn't the moon goddess also show up? and she's a complex one

[green oar]

He still own sun powerz but yea Helios is the closest one

[lucid salmon]

If we're talking about mythical accuracy: in this game, the House of Hades is in Tartarus, which replaces the Fields of Punishment, while Asphodel is full of lava and skeletons. And Hestia has a gun.

[rocky ledge]

Hestia railed against the system

[merry sorrel]

asphodel was said to had fire resistant but not fire proof flowers

[green oar]

The most accurate part of the game is

When other god being jealous and just try to kill you for it

[rocky ledge]

in the double god boon rooms?

I always feel like it's kinda weird when you have two of them and reject the same god twice

[lucid salmon]

"Hestia had a gun" just fills a vacant spot in actual Greek myth which is the great part

[green oar]

well they're god

[rocky ledge]

since the dialogue is basically the same, they forget the slight

[green oar]

they never meant to be make sense

its funny when they offer you a great boom after being jealous

[graceful wharf]

Dionysus is probably the funniest, after trial of the gods he just goes "Oh wait did i try to kill you earlier, sorry my man i didn't remember a thing"

[rocky ledge]

it's 2019 if Hestia wants a gun she can have one

[shrewd saffron]

Some of the gods it was just scary seeing them angry - as it is so outside how they normally act

[rocky ledge]

wouldn't want to see chaos angry

or would I 👀

[shrewd saffron]

You wouldn't survive Chaos anger

• odds are Chaos would shatter and restart the universe (I'm not sure of its power limits) just to ensure its will took place

(that's just based on my interactions in-game)

[green oar]

Chaos is too chill to be mad

[graceful wharf]

Chaos anger would impair you with his debuff, 50% speed reduction, whenever you attack/special/cast you take x damage and no gold gain

[rocky ledge]

whenever Zagreus makes a sassy comment take 50 damage

dead in 2 floors

[shrewd saffron]

Dead in one, maybe 2 mobs 😛

[graceful wharf]

but he only makes sassy comment against Theseus and Hades

[rocky ledge]

you actually never make it through the dialogue before the final boss

[green oar]

The only time Chaos is mad, is when Zag make mommy nyx sad

[shrewd saffron]

There's voice lines that take place just in the middle of a fight that I'd count

[rocky ledge]

or whenever he leaves the house of hades

[graceful wharf]

i rarely notice those dialogues because i'm too busy getting crushed by shield dudes or running for my life from flaming wheels

[shrewd saffron]

For me it makes knocking out a mob worth it just to find out Zag's opinion on what happened 😉

[green oar]

shield mobs is way more annoying to fight than most Boss

[shrewd saffron]

Using bouncing spears, shield, and the shards make it much easier

• otherwise it's a lot of blinking just to get it done in a hurry

[cunning needle]

i love zag’s laugh when he kills an enemy easily

[shy warren]

Is there a way to bring more than one item with you?

[cunning needle]

nope. you can only switch items mid-run at the keepsake box

[shy warren]

I wish you could potentially spend X-amount of coins or other currency to bring another item with you to make some sweet combos!

(even mid run)

[graceful wharf]

Now i want to find out what Hermes will say when you switch god keepsakes at the end of each region but encounter Hermes first, he mentioned Artemis was out looking for me once, what a cutie

[restive elk]

Hate to be this guy, but dont try it. You get God dialogue only on the first boon.

[graceful wharf]

hmm wdym

[pallid crag]

hermes mentions the other olympians dont know he's helping you

[graceful wharf]

oh i already got all the duo boons

[proper cairn]

Imagine getting boons

[graceful wharf]

Is this high level strategy

[livid lance]

I have tried to do a godless run, I made it with two boons at the end and vowed not to use them

[graceful wharf]

did you win

[glacial storm]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MHwFrt6IIo alternative final boss theme

[livid lance]

I did

shield was op

[graceful wharf]

Chaos aspect i assume?

[livid lance]

Zag, hammers for charge laser and power shot so I could hit 280 each time

[paper pawn]

do i need to have the yarn of ariadne in the solo bull fights to get hypnos his autograph?

[graceful wharf]

Nice i don't usually pick charge laser

I assume so

[paper pawn]

oof that's tough, sometimes never see the damn string

[graceful wharf]

Yeah quite rare to see it appears right before the boss fight

[paper pawn]

yeah by the final fight i can sometimes manage, but before the solo bull fight is way harder

[graceful wharf]

Or idk maybe you can just simple die to Asterius multiple times, i still haven't to him enough tp unlock all the dialogues

[paper pawn]

well i got the line where theseus assures asterius he'll go find ariadne and talk with her

but the next time i brought a yarn in

it was back to cycled lines

so i'm kind of dreading trying to find a solo bull fight after a yarn pick up

i have also STILL never rng'd the line where dionysus tells you to play a prank on orpheus

bless me, luck god

[graceful wharf]

Well dang, but bring up the good news when you finally finish the autograph quest

You have my blessing, good luck on your noble quest

[glacial storm]

I've never even gotten orpheus' contractor purchase to show up

actually I haven't seen a single contractor purchase that costs diamonds since really early in the game

I think my save is bugged

[graceful wharf]

It's just rng i think, some people took really long for him to show up

[glacial storm]

I haven't gotten an opportunity to spend any diamonds, I mean

[paper pawn]

yeah i saw him early on about 20 runs in, but didn't have a diamond at the time

and then i never saw that purchase again until run 80

[glacial storm]

If that were RNG then it's some long odds

[paper pawn]

i basically had to buy out all the other contractor things until i forced it to show up

and there's this awful rng continuation of orpheus's interactions where you need to rng a convo with dionysus

honestly it should just be a guaranteed interaction

[graceful wharf]

Same thing happens with Thanatos or Meg quest, some people still haven't finished their quest even after exhausted all their dialogues

Yeah Orpheus contract only showed up after i bought a bunch of things

[paper pawn]

yeah they need to adjust that, interactions shouldn't be too RNG based, there should be higher chances to encounter/talk if you haven't seen it yet

heaven forbid you

have bad luck like me

and have gone about 190 runs and never seen that dio talk

[glacial storm]

they should do pseudo random, where if you haven't encountered it after X runs the chance of it appearing begins to increase

[graceful wharf]

Oh and i still haven't collected enough diamond to buy like half of the music sheets, why are some songs cost 5 when others cost 1

[paper pawn]

yeah that would be a good middle ground

[shrewd saffron]

I wouldn't expect the house contractor to have fair prices though - they are doing under Hades nose

What really surprised me with them is how many features that I'd taken for granted suddenly became things to buy from the contractor (chests, fountains...)

[glacial storm]

I like that they made them contractor bonuses. I only started playing after they got added, but it really made me appreciate them more

It's a good way of slowly introducing them to new players as well

[formal ivy]

chests and fountains used to be free?

[shrewd saffron]

Yep.

[formal ivy]

gorsh

y'all had it good earlier lmfao

[shrewd saffron]

I can see that, makes me a bit sad that I won't experience the thrill of having them unlock after earning the currency

[formal ivy]

do agree with the introducing part, i wouldn't have noticed their existence if I hadn't manually decided to put them into my runs

[shrewd saffron]

The game has evolved quite a bit, and the endgame stuff is finally good now

[glacial storm]

also I like the idea that zagreus makes the undorworld a better place in his fervor to escape

[shrewd saffron]

I thought he improved it to irritate his dad, but that too 🙂

[formal ivy]

people can actually shower there now

[shrewd saffron]

The game was different, but it is more fun now 🙂

[formal ivy]

did it start off with Hydra as the final boss?

[shrewd saffron]

Nope. Meg

We had it released biome by biome

[formal ivy]

ah ok

I went digging in the subtitles, didn't notice the meg ending lines

[shrewd saffron]

And we had tartarus for a bit, and the fun of suddenly seeing a new room appear

[paper pawn]

oh what were the old lines for meg

while you guys were waiting on asphodel

[shrewd saffron]

I don't remember any

But being able to get updates to make it worth coming back to the game again and again, even when the endgame wasn't ready made it worth doing the early (earlier) purchase 😉

[proper cairn]

flexin' the early purchase

[formal ivy]

what was endgame like before heat?

and weapon aspects I guess?

[shrewd saffron]

There wasn't one. We had a pact of punishment, but it was like Bastion's and Transistor's, it made the game harder, but without any reward.

Heat only came out when the hydra was released

Before that it was just seeing what new boons you could get 🙂

(and the pact didn't exist initially)

[proper cairn]

pretty barebones

[shrewd saffron]

When playing (after an update) the boons would update, some would vanish, power level changing, and it would be quite noticeable with some of the updates

You used to be able to get extra dashes with darkness

after the Hermes update, it became a boon, and the default dashes became 2

Oh, and tartarus used to only had Meg as the boss - her sisters weren't in the game at that point

The graphics have improved quite a bit too, the guy next to bouldy looked like Nyx until recently 🙂

[formal ivy]

I didn't even question that Nyx and Charon would look like anything except hooded figures tbh

[atomic forge]

does seem fitting for the both of them yeah

didn't realise it was a placeholder until someone pointed it out

[shrewd saffron]

"flexin' the early purchase" - wasn't even aware that it was something special, it's still in early access 😉

[glacial storm]

I hope they keep charon's design

tbh it fits pretty well perfectly

[formal ivy]

I wonder if Charon'll get voice lines?

[twin temple]

his current voice lines are perfect

[shrewd saffron]

He already has voice lines, its just how Charon is

[runic terrace]

@atomic forge backreading and yes abt zags fear of responsibility tho i think some of it is also that he associates responsibility with hades , as in "having power means making everybody miserable and being really mean"? and hes so desperate not to be like that that he downplays his power as much as possible

[proper cairn]

I mean there is also that thing when hades says that the only thing zag is "good" at is being willfull and determined

anyways in a much more epic note

FE3H has a song called God shattering star

i think that fits pretty well with Zag

why did i spend my time killing the hydra with ONLY dashes?

[formal ivy]

because you didn't have any dots

[proper cairn]

i have dots

[pallid crag]

is the dot also your dash

[proper cairn]

no

[shrewd saffron]

It's more fun that way, and keeps you moving a lot - I tend to only remember the shards when I think the fight might lose me a death prevention

[proper cairn]

im using the phalanx dash

at a strong 39 dmg

[proper cairn]

i will do a challange run and not allow myself to attack outside of dash attacks or dashing

[formal ivy]

blade dash runs are fun

[proper cairn]

I will only do sword dashes if i have to

i would prefer for it to just be dashing with the phalanx

[graceful wharf]

@paper pawn I FINALLY GET THE THING FOR MY BOI HYPNOS! also confirm that you don't need the yarn

||https://i.imgur.com/8bGKVPH.jpg||

[formal ivy]

ayyyy

[turbid hearth]

so question, since I don't die on Meg and her sisters ever, is there pre-fight or lounge dialogue about her kicking Zagreus's butt?

like "hey I beat you down the last 5 times, why do you keep coming back"

[paper pawn]

kdjhfkdshf @graceful wharf HOW

KAMI-SAMA TEACH ME

[graceful wharf]

one simple trick, ||pray for rng||

[paper pawn]

cry

rng interactions are killing me my luck is awful

[graceful wharf]

did you find solo bull fight recently

[shrewd saffron]

Meg isn't that bad, just dash behind her when she's about to dash and backstap

Dashing at the right time is the most important thing

Did the solo bull earlier

twice

[proper cairn]

rng for me is pretty good

i always get atleast one friend room

then show me thats a guarantee

[tranquil lichen]

Question: what are the requirements to get a Defiance boon from Chaos? I can't seem to get it, even with less than 3 defiances remaining and already having 2 or 3 chaos boons

It's the last thing I need on the fated list

[bleak pendant]

Its just rare

really really rare

[tranquil lichen]

Even went down there with Cosmic Egg+ Yarn of Ariadne a few times

Hmm

But not legendary, like you need 2 boons already?

[proper cairn]

not rare as in tier of boon

rare as in encounter

[magic flame]

Hey guys! I just joined and have been playing for the last 3 days, I'd love to leave some feedback but im not allowed to post in the feedback

Can anyone assist? ^^

[formal ivy]

you gotta take the role in #bot-commands first, check the pins

[final stream]

I've got all items (Cosmic egg, etc.). Do i need to max them all to unlock the locked ones? XD

[bleak pendant]

no

that locked ones are unlocked differently

certain chars can give them to you

when you max out their affinity

[final stream]

Oki, thanks. I've maxed 6 of them, working on getting lucky xD

[bleak pendant]

nice

[proper cairn]

well i killed hades again

with the spear this time

[bleak pendant]

congrats!

[proper cairn]

i offered to artemis

and her reaction is so cute

wholesome hunter

[bleak pendant]

mhm. She's great

[atomic forge]

wow, middle management barge of death truly is a joke

i never want to do that again

[bleak pendant]

yeah

[fervent jackal]

yay, won my first run, even did the final boss on the first time i saw him \o/

but with god mode and 40% damage resist -.-

[formal ivy]

but you did it! congrats!