h1-story-discussion

[visual laurel]

maybe but it's not like zag remembers

[bleak osprey]

yeah, i was about to say

babies are not known for their excellent memories

[livid kiln]

and im p sure the writers look at this thread and like any good DnD DM, takes inspiration from player speculations

that's true

[visual laurel]

nah

greg's got his own thing going

[bleak osprey]

i mean i'd sure hope greg's not making it up as he goes lmao

[visual laurel]

i think they take inspo maybe for easter eggs or snide comments on the side

[livid kiln]

i like where cassepied's going, the place is pretty busted up

[visual laurel]

like

zag has a relatively new line

about

hold on lemme grab it

||Who makes door locks connected to a fountain?||

if you come into a fountain room and are at full health

like that's a sort of wink wink nudge nudge at everyone who complains about having to use fountains before leaving lol

that's the kind of inspo i expect sgg to take from these threads

[livid kiln]

aaaaaaaaah lol

yeah

I wanna know what's about this

how do i do spoilers

wait we're in spoilers channel

[visual laurel]

||like this||

but yes we are kgjdfg

[livid kiln]

yeah so

i think the house is affected by what's going up above

[visual laurel]

i honestly think The War is just an excuse to delay the appearance of thanatos and the other two furies

the house has been in decay for a while

[livid kiln]

it might be an excuse, but it would be interesting to develop upon it further

like

have the actual warriors look for the infernal arms and try to invade hades

GOOD LUCK

but it could be cool to have zag fight on the front once a certain threshold has been reached

like you have to deal with soldiers, wretches and stuff

you fight alongside the furies, and not!Ornstein&Smough

[bleak osprey]

the game's about escaping hell, not fighting a war.....

[livid kiln]

but story

but plot

[tall ingot]

Me : show hades game to my friend
After 3h of playing.
He : how many levels there is?
Me : 3, 4th will be added
He : the last boss will be Hades?

Hate him

[keen fog]

Might be the dogo and this would break me

[livid kiln]

hades + dog

let's go

[stark tulip]

The last boss is Icarus and it’s the token racing mini game

[livid kiln]

ack

[harsh sleet]

i hope the last boss is hades so i can give him the beating he deserves-

[livid kiln]

or if you complete his character arc you get a tear jerking confrontation between father and son

we need a redemption arc

no, i need a redemption arc

[sinful peak]

I feel like considering the supergiant tendency of making you make decisions (specifically see endings of Bastion, Pyre), I think there almost certainly will be one?

[earnest shore]

I know supergiant doesn’t necessarily do ‘bad’ endings but I really want one for hades

[stark tulip]

I mean in pyre you can literally start a massive war which to me seems bad enough

Or at least, fail to end it

[earnest shore]

yeah, but I feel like we were really uninvolved from the war in pyre, maybe cause we were still in the downside.

but I was talking more about how everyone can’t go to the commonwealth

I always thought it was kind of a bittersweet ending, but not exactly bad

[sinful peak]

Idk if Transistor had an unambiguously good ending either

[lunar kiln]

the bad ending is when you die

[sinful peak]

Right, but that doesn’t make the ending-ending automatically good either

[wide wind]

sgg endings are often bittersweet but hopeful, i think

you never get the happy storybook ending, and there's always some level of loss, but there's hope

[atomic forge]

Pyre's peaceful revolution ending is probably the happiest.

[bleak osprey]

Hey, just a heads-up: if you're going to talk about game endings in detail, you'd be better off taking it to the channel for that particular game; if it's being discussed in relation to Hades, then please put the specifics in spoiler tags!

[sinful peak]

Right, makes sense

Since this is only a spoiler zone for hades and not everything else, I guess :D

[atomic forge]

Right. To get back on the topic of hades.
I really do wonder what the fourth zone will be. Because I think it will be a big indication of the ending. The surface world? Olympus? Where would Persephone be?

[earnest shore]

I always thought it would be the surface

But who would you be fighting up there?

[bleak osprey]

mortals?

oh god, that'd be gruesome.

zag, after finishing the first room: oh no, tisi was right

[sick grove]

oh no, not that please

[cunning needle]

maybe it’s demeter’s garden

[amber canyon]

I mean, what happens to the shades we kill

[sick grove]

It's Charon's warehouse for excess inventory.

[cunning needle]

charon fights you but he doesn’t take your health, he takes your obols

[bleak osprey]

thanatos mentions "sending them to the lowest depths", so i assumed that was what happened to them

[sick grove]

we reach the surface, and Zag gets a good moment of 'oh, is this what grass looks li-?'

and then a god yoinks him up to Olympus and welcomes zag to his new home.

[earnest shore]

👏let👏zagreus👏see👏the👏sunset👏

[sick grove]

Olympus:
A god 'scorns' you upon your request to leave, and it becomes a descent out of Olympus. This god becomes the primary antagonist for the final area, and their dual-room scorned effect is active for every floor.

Instead of Hades berating you, its one of your Olympus buddies giving you a hard time.

[earnest shore]

I LOVE THAT

[sick grove]

Dio "Zag, buddy, what's the big rush? The party's just getting started!"

Festive fog everywhere

[zealous flower]

i hope you climb mount olympus

climb out of hell and into heaven

[earnest shore]

zag takes a waterslide of blood back down to the house when he dies

[raven gale]

I finally ! FINALLY ! killed theseus

[earnest shore]

congrats!!!

everytime I get to the boss I kill asterius and then immediately die

[atomic forge]

Same

[shrewd arrow]

4th could be like

The doors of death area

and you are forced to fight thanatos

It would be a really short area

Its more of 1/2 an area

and the other half would be the overworld

Then the final area could be olympus?

idk where ssg is taking this game but

please make us fight the gods

or at least make us fight revived skeletal cronos

that'd be cool too

[earnest shore]

if I have to fight Thanatos that would be really cool but I would also cry

[visual laurel]

;w; i hope we don't have to fight him...i feel like if he was going to be a boss it would've been in elysium

[earnest shore]

why’s that?

[visual laurel]

🤔 i'm sure i had a reason for thinking that once...either way i feel like...idk it really depends what the last biome is. i don't even feel like i can speculate except that i'm 100% sure it won't be cerberus

why is everyone so eager to beat the dog, this is just sad

[digital crag]

i want a water biome

[visual laurel]

greg already skimped us odysseus 😔

[digital crag]

tricky garbage man

[bleak osprey]

please consider: thanatos pofs into a chamber as usual, zag's like "hey are you here to help me clear these shades out :D" and thanatos is just like "no, zag, i've got..... new orders. your father insists." and BOOM unexpected thanatos boss fight. IT WOULD BREAK MY HEART AND I DO NOT WANT TO FIGHT MY BOY

[visual laurel]

like look it would be great and terrible and heartbreaking

but

oh here's another one to consider

thanatos pofs into the room and is like "your father...ordered me to help stop you. so i decided i'm not listening to him anymore."

[bleak osprey]

run away to the surface with me thanatos

[digital crag]

and then i kiss him directly on the mouth

[visual laurel]

i honestly think if push came to shove as long as doing so didn't interfere with his ability to do his like, actual work, he would take zag's side directly against hades

he's an honor student and it would hurt him so much

but he would do it

[bleak osprey]

i mean. thanatos is the embodiment of death; hades just does the paperwork kfgjhgfkjdh

[sick grove]

personally, I think Than would just make a good show of 'trying to find Zag, but oh no, for some reason I just can't seem tooo. darn!'

[visual laurel]

i think he'll do that as long as he possibly can

but i'm saying if push came to shove

straight up

[digital crag]

he does not come off as a good liar to me

[bleak osprey]

idk he seems to have hades fooled so far

[visual laurel]

lying clearly stresses him out gkjfgfd

[digital crag]

but that's through avoidance and dodging hades wherever possible

[visual laurel]

he only has hades fooled because hades wants to be fooled

[digital crag]

he doesn't do good with bold-faced direct lies

[bleak osprey]

hades: clearly the golden child would never lie to me

i love when you talk to than and he's got no conversations left and he's just like i am in so much trouble

[visual laurel]

he tells one (1) indirect lie to hades and immediately goes to zag like-- YEAH

[visual laurel]

he's an extremely anxious boy but he's got a chaotic streak he's not capitalizing on

[bleak osprey]

he's hypnos's twin brother of course he's got a chaotic streak

[digital crag]

repressed chaos

[bleak osprey]

dfhjgdjfh the evolution from you are in so much trouble to i am in so much trouble

have i mentioned recently how much i adore thanatos

[digital crag]

character growth

[sick grove]

https://tenor.com/view/stop-dont-come-back-wonka-gif-5413653

Than be like ^

[visual laurel]

but yeah i'm saying like, if hades for some reason got dissatisfied with than's vague answers and skipping out on assignments and confronted him about it, like, than would a) be unable to lie convincingly and b) would almost definitely take zag's side if it really, really came down to it

[bleak osprey]

oh, definitely

[visual laurel]

again what's hades gonna

do

he can't like...lock than up

he could punish than by proxy

by punishing nyx or hypnos

(assuming than does care about hypnos somewhere in there)

[bleak osprey]

i mean, sisyphus tried locking than up once and the olympians got mad about it

so, y'know.

[visual laurel]

but he can't do much to thanatos directly that would hinder his work

because if you get in death's way like....things get hairy REAL fast

[sick grove]

Zag starts another war to Get Than Off His Back

[visual laurel]

like honestly
god.
it could escalate ridiculously if neither of them actually has particular power over the other

hades can be like "well i'm going to punish nyx until you stop helping zag" and than could be like "well i'm going to refuse to work until you stop punishing nyx" and until somebody can actually force somebody else to do something,

[runic terrace]

hgfgfghfgh

[bleak osprey]

nyx, meanwhile: chilling and reading a newspaper or something bc she's the embodiment of night and darkness and does not give a hoot about whatever it is hades is trying to do

[digital crag]

hades: nyx i am going to banish you into the darkest reaches of tartarus
nyx: oh no i am so scared please do not

[runic terrace]

hvhjfhjfj

oh no, the dark,

[bleak osprey]

hades a surprisingly ineffectual giver of punishments to anyone other than his own son, apparently, and even then it's iffy

[digital crag]

oh no, so dark

[visual laurel]

i mean it doesn't have to be nyx but who else does thanatos even care about

[digital crag]

you can't punishment immortal gods or already dead ghosts by killing them

[visual laurel]

it's like
nyx, zag, and hypnos debatably

[digital crag]

awww he cares deep down

[visual laurel]

i think he does but gkjdfgfd you know

just hedging my assertions

[runic terrace]

[hades voice] thanatos. you have betrayed me your last time. i am going to let cerberus rip up your miku body pillow.

[bleak osprey]

i think it's kind of a case of "i'm going to act like i don't care but then i will DESTROY anyone who messes with him"

[visual laurel]

gkjdhgkdfhgkfdg

[runic terrace]

oh i hope so omg...

[bleak osprey]

like if someone actually Tried Something against hypnos, than would definitely care

[digital crag]

big brother protecc....

[bleak osprey]

but hypnos is fine chilling where he is and doing nothing so than is his usual lovely dying repeatedlymight actually be better than talking to hypnos self

[runic terrace]

[visual laurel]

the point stands tho there are only so many people hades can even leverage to try to punish thanatos because he can't punish thanatos directly

[bleak osprey]

ares: what happened to thanatos.
hades: .........nothing
ares: nobody is dying. i'm bored. is this sisyphus's doing again?
hades: n-no
ares:

"don't make me come down there."

[runic terrace]

AAAAAAAA

[visual laurel]

and i mean regardless of anything else you can and should say about hades - he's very diligent about his work

[bleak osprey]

it's almost 4am but i have the uncontrollable urge to photoshop onto

sleep is for the weak and time is fake, c'mere photoshop

[visual laurel]

so idt hades would self-sabotage like that in the first place lol

he'd just

be Very Mad about it and life for everyone in the house would get exponentially worse

little things

[runic terrace]

hgfhjfvhjfchjfhj

[digital crag]

hajsldf

[simple sparrow]

I mean... Strip Zag of his weapons, throw him to one of the (non-meg) furies... Either Than would fall in line, or he'd heckin' riot.

[merry sorrel]

...can zag replace than in his job sometimes?

as in, best way to make a workaholic fall in line might be to force a vacation on them

[harsh sleet]

ngl if something happened to zag i think he’d keep not doing his job to try and help him

[undone beacon]

so what happens rn when it clear the alst boss?

[onyx spoke]

you "die" (different death message) after a brief explanation by the Storyteller, and are sent back to the House of Hades with a 'To Be Continued' message

[rapid zinc]

There's also fun dialogue with various characters with meta jokes about how the Underworld is "undergoing renovations"

[bleak osprey]

i'm gonna miss the renovations jokes

[dawn ore]

https://imgur.com/WKqNt7g
Can we all admire how amazing this boon is?

[tardy cedar]

but does it kill you

[dawn ore]

But it's just so sad to look at :c

Like literally this boon in this run is just a boon for the sake of being a boon

It's a placeholder xd

[frozen jolt]

hahahahaha oh nooo

[tardy cedar]

i dont think ill ever take grim inevitability if i can help it

or whatever the anti-healing heat option is

[dawn ore]

I don't really want to be limited by the max ammount of darkness I can use soooo

ORRR

The worst heat punishment for me is

The one that increases the moving speed of foes

That thing is just pure nightmarish

[tardy cedar]

if you kill them before they can move it doesnt matter

[dawn ore]

Tell that to the elite mobs that don't get staggered

[tardy cedar]

then you just don't have enough damage

[dawn ore]

Okay

To add insult to injury

After I got a pom of power

I was forced to upgrade the after party boon

So yeah

How's your life going?

[tardy cedar]

its actually my birthday today so its good

[dawn ore]

Cheers mate! Happy day of exiting your mom's womb!

.>

Don't hate me

[tardy cedar]

thanks and i hope you get a better pom eventually

[dawn ore]

Thank you!

[dawn ore]

Welp.

In fight with meg
Game crashes mid fight
End up back in House of Hades

[tardy cedar]

A few weeks back i got a softlock in elysium

[livid kiln]

I dare people to go full heat and no mirror of night

As in

Mirror of Night has no upgrades

[onyx spoke]

I can't even beat 60 heat, I think that would cause me to have cardiac arrest

[livid kiln]

I tried

Made it up to two minutes

and i was at 65

[atomic forge]

Honestly that just sounds -- like -- not even fun. Clearing a single room would take 5+ minutes, and the full attempt would be over an hour long

[lunar kiln]

i guess you could say it's hell

[dawn ore]

I'm playing with 120 heat with limited darkness

1000

Mobs deal 7 times the damage

Died at the Hydra sadly :c

I really want that 120 heat statue :c

[drifting citrus]

i mean, for being hell, taking an hour to get out would be pretty good

[onyx spoke]

hades: "How did you get out of here, boy?"
zag: "You left the front door unlocked."

[sturdy sundial]

That makes Zag sound like he's a restless puppy constantly bolting out of the door, and I love it.

[runic terrace]

jhfjhfhjfhjfhj zag in early access times is like a cat who keeps asking to go in and then out bc it thinks therell b something new outside

maybe This Time the exit wont b sealed

[sturdy sundial]

"okay that Asphodel sucked but what about THIS Asphodel?"

[onyx spoke]

"let me in, I want to go out again"

[sick grove]

somehow i get the feeling that this won't just be early access zag, and i love this thought dearly

[west moat]

let me out, I want to get to the surface!

okay no I want back in now

[livid lance]

Zags room must have a serious draught running through it poor guy.

[visual laurel]

he doesn't have a door.....wild

[digital crag]

he can't slam his door in a rebellious teenage fashion

[sick grove]

the door achilles is guarding is just the actual exit

zag has never known this his entire life.

[runic terrace]

zag gets to the exit
walks back to say bye to everyone, undertale style
gets to tartarus room one
wretches attack
AW MAN....

[harsh sleet]

imagine if sans stood opposite hypnos and told you how many tried youve done

tries*

whoops

its 2 am sorry lol

[runic terrace]

hypnos and sans take turns napping

[harsh sleet]

GAME THEORY: HYPNOS IS SANS/

[runic terrace]

hdnfnvn hyp and sans would want u to sleep

AAAAAAAAAA

wait.....steven after not surviving....SO HES IN THE UNDERWORLD......

[harsh sleet]

whos steven

[runic terrace]

universe

[harsh sleet]

OH

he died?

[runic terrace]

from the theory post joke thats like s.a.n.s = steven after not surviving

NOT REALLY KXMXNXNXV

[harsh sleet]

OH

FHGJSKFDG

[sick grove]

Zag walking out of the pool of blood: "Ah, shoot, here we go again."

[harsh sleet]

someone pull up the meme we made for that

[digital crag]

blood and darkness here we go again

[earnest shore]

Is there any way to get Thanatos to appear? Or is there a certain point of the game where he shows up?

I want to see my little boy!!

[drifting citrus]

i'm pretty sure he starts to come at around 23 runs

and there's specific conditions you have to hit in the run to find him, which include being damaged in previous rooms

i'm not sure of the specifics, and there might have been changes since i've been seeing him more in the beefy update

[earnest shore]

ohh makes sense, I’m only on my 17th run

[drifting citrus]

i know one of the mods here figured out the conditions, but that was around the previous update

[west moat]

23rd run is when he starts being able to appear

[steady dust]

that dang bull is hard as poop

[visual laurel]

@earnest shore
He only shows up starting in your 23rd run, and past chamber...10? in Tartarus, where he's often out-prioritized by survival rooms. In Asphodel and Elysium he can show up after 3 chambers each.
You have to have taken a hit sometime in the past 5 chambers for him to appear. He won't interrupt boss fights or noncombat rooms either obviously

[earnest shore]

thanks!!

[bleak osprey]

i actually ended up putting the specifics on his wiki page

[digital crag]

"(he'll just complain)"

[bleak osprey]

listen the best part about editing the wiki is finding the little places to sneak in humour

like calling hades a jerk on the ambrosia page

[dark peak]

What are the 60 and 120 heat statues?

[lunar kiln]

skelly reenacting the loss comic

[dark peak]

Oh lol

[brazen geyser]

oh hello. how the hell do i kill minotaur and the other guy

is it a difficulty spike or am i imagining it?

too beefy

[sage vault]

its a difficulty spike but theres plenty of diffrent ways to do it

[earnest shore]

I like using the shield

In my opinion killing the bull is easier

You just have to get used to his attack pattern

[sage vault]

i kinda low key hate the shield

spear and sword are my prefered weapons

[atomic forge]

Close range weapons, aarrrghh. I love the adamt rail, but hate the bow

[sage vault]

a friend of mine love the bow but i really hate the drawtime on it

[night peak]

deadalus can make no time for shot with the bow

[onyx spoke]

I really don't like the bow

spear and sword gang

[onyx spoke]

meg: "go home, zagreus"
zag: https://imgur.com/S5XT9BD

[amber canyon]

Bow is the best weapon tbh

[livid kiln]

wrong

shield or spear

[amber canyon]

Shield is valid too

[vagrant nova]

false, the best weapon is stealing and using skelly's leg

[cunning needle]

it one shots everything

[earnest shore]

When will supergiant give me the option to serenade my enemies to make them lay down their arms

[bleak osprey]

orpheus boon

[earnest shore]

the new weapon is an electric guitar and zagreus wins all his battles with music

[harsh sleet]

when will supergiant let me smooch than

[earnest shore]

remember to thank your local god of death with a smooch

[bleak osprey]

[onyx spoke]

guitar weapon turns every fight into a guitar hero rhythm game based on the current playing song

[earnest shore]

darren korb is the final boss

[vagrant nova]

god I hope so

[onyx spoke]

zagreus has the realization he sounds exactly like darren, a la Lego Movie 2

[brazen geyser]

so, after asking how to kill the minotaur and the other dude yday i did it from the 1st try. i guess i got really lucky with my boons, 8 death defiances (6 left) and got boon on having invul after death defiance, invul on wrath and extra hp on death defiance.

[bleak osprey]

nice, congrats!

[brazen geyser]

thanks 😃

[bleak osprey]

once you've fought them a few times it gets a bit easier to learn their attacks and such

[brazen geyser]

i still think they are quite tough, the guy having a shield and such, and when he goes into rage it becomes a race against time. luckily i had enough time 😃

[dawn ore]

Me being the stubborn person that I am I’m having problems getting out of asphodel while being at 120 heat and refusing to lower the difficulty

[harsh sleet]

f 😔

[radiant anvil]

whats the last weapon on hades?

i unlocked the gun

idk how lol

how to unlock the last weapon? i beat the mino and hero

[visual laurel]

The last weapon isn't in the game yet

[radiant anvil]

oh okey thankyou 😄

[bright void]

Does Zagreus have other siblings from Hades that eventually try to stop him?

[cunning needle]

not that we know of

[solar depot]

it's weird to think that alecto and tisi are technically zag's "siblings" as well 🤔

[tardy cedar]

But isnt meg, then?

[solar depot]

ya

[undone beacon]

what happens once i beat theseus and the minotaur?

[solar depot]

you enjoy the warm glow of pride! 🤗

[tardy cedar]

You do it again but using more heat

[undone beacon]

so once i kil lthem i have to do it again?

[solar depot]

that is currently the farthest point in the game, yes

so--well, you don't HAVE to kill them again... but you could

[undone beacon]

i see

[solar depot]

next patch is in two weeks though!

who knows what the future holds...

[undone beacon]

cant wait

you guys think that the finall boss gonna be hades?

you guys think that the finall boss gonna be hades?

[solar depot]

i wonder...

"to leave you must best me in combat!!"

[digital crag]

Xel what is your name

[undone beacon]

hmm

[solar depot]

haha that feels like--it's steak mop, jan.

[digital crag]

He deals emotional damage by insulting you

What is... steak.... mop

[solar depot]

[digital crag]

Hdgjd

[stark tulip]

Man I know they’re not technically part of the big Olympian pantheon but Circe would be so cool

[frozen jolt]

Steakmop is the only thing strong enough to thwart steam

[amber canyon]

Well, strictly speaking

Meg, Tisi and Alecto all arent siblings of Zag

[digital crag]

Oh i love me a circe

[sour helm]

Is there any consensus on who the next god will be? Any hints or anything

[atomic forge]

Let's see which major Greek Gods are missing.
Hepheastus, God of the Forge and Fire
Hermes, God of Messengers and Trickery
Apollo, God of Light and Healing
Demeter, Goddess of Fertility and Agriculture (Also Persephones mom. Making her Zags grandmomma)
Hera, Goddess of Marriage and Birth
Hestia, Goddess of Home and Hearth

[bleak osprey]

my money's on hermes or apollo

apollo would have some good interaction potential with artemis and there'd probably be some Friction if achilles found out that he was involved, and hermes could have some interesting boons as well as his schtick as the one who guided souls to the underworld

[earnest shore]

I’m hoping for Apollo or Demeter

[west moat]

I really want hera or hestia myself... though they're less likely

[atomic forge]

I think Demeter's relationship to Persephone rules her out. Wouldnt Zag ask her questions? Although her powers could be neat. I dont see how Hestia could be incorporated into Boons. Especially considering Zag is trying to leave home. Hera could work if they focus on certain aspects of her. I mean I doubt childbirth will give good boons for Zag but her role as Queen of the Gods could. There would also then be 4 male Olympian Gods and 4 female Olympian gods present.
Apollo's healing could mean a focus on health. Maybe even regeneration. Or bringing back lifesteal? Light is rather abstract but plenty of other fiction somehow works light into a hurting thing. I agree that Hermes is a good candidate. Zags speed is something no other God really focuses on and could definitely be explored. My personal choice is Hephaestus. Solely because while all the other Gods are these beautiful, stunning people. He's an uggo and I want to see how Jen Zee would draw him. But Fire is usally DoT and Dionysus covers that. Also Forge covered by the hammers already in game.

[sick grove]

I'd really like to see how Hermes plays, boonwise. However, my money's on Apollo.

[bleak osprey]

speedy boi

[atomic forge]

Zoom

[sick grove]

Something I think a lot of people would hate but I would personally love: 'a dumb hover mechanic'. Basically, a boon that gives you a hover mechanic, so that coming to a stop keeps you gliding in that direction.

Strafing with rail autofire. Gliding along while charging spear spin. The possibilities...

Giving him a cast that brings enemies it hits directly in front of the player, as well as stunning them. Absolutely useless on high heat, but think of the sword synergy in Asphodel.

[visual laurel]

I want Apollo purely for the Drama

[sick grove]

Apollo would be awesome. He seems to make the most out of sense, boon wise.

[atomic forge]

I think Hera would be pretty dramatic as well. Her Boons though... The only thing I can really think of is something like CC. Rooting enemies in place for a second or so. A stretch out of her association with (marriage) bonds.

[sick grove]

You've charmed your enemies. Now, marry them.

[bleak osprey]

apollo for the twin snark as well as for continuing the streak of gods trying to pass messages to achilles

[atomic forge]

Achilles needs a mailbox

[sick grove]

Zag is his mailbox

[digital crag]

sanic boy

[clever egret]

uwuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu why is Daddy Theseus fwiends wif the big bad Minotaur hunhhhhhh.....I thought they were enemies ohhhhh......please sumbody help me understand ayaaaaaaaa

[rapid zinc]

They actually explain it in game over the first three or four encounters

As in, Zagreus asks that exact question

[bright void]

So I was reading on the subreddit that there were some characters "that everyone talks about and didn't show up yet, and finally did in some update" due to the early access nature of it not being developed. Who were those characters?

[neat crow]

That's kind of vague, but I'm guessing Patroclus

[bright void]

Yeah it was super vague in the subreddit too.

[drifting citrus]

praying for eurydice next

[visual laurel]

could've been thanatos too

lots of talk about thanatos before he actually appeared

[bright void]

YEah, something like "they talked about why he was away"

[visual laurel]

it would be Thanatos then

[bright void]

So continuing on this, I finally got to the point where Hypnos started talking about "not seeing his brother in a while". Is this the same dialog? So it seems they kept this aspect?

[bleak osprey]

thanatos returns to the underworld after a certain number of cleared runs

that dialogue was in before he was

at least i think it was

[bright void]

Here's the exact quote: (https://www.reddit.com/r/SupergiantGames/comments/bk6w6a/if_i_wait_until_hades_is_fully_released_will_i/)
"For example: we spent months having conversations with NPCs in which references to other, then-absent members of the cast were made. These other characters were not part of the game yet, but we were already being told about them and about why they weren't there yet, from an in-story perspective. Then with the March update we finally got to see these characters for the first time, and it was a pretty cathartic moment after so much anticipation."

[bleak osprey]

that’s talking about thanatos and the furies, yes

march was murder death kill if i’m remembering right

[bright void]

So it does seem, in a way, they managed to capture / recreate this "sense of waiting"

[bright void]

So do we think Apollo or Hermes will be the next Olympian?

[rapid zinc]

I'm hoping for Apollo for the sibling banter with Artemis

[bright void]

I like the idea of Hermes, since we have all the other planets namesakes

Except Saturn, but that's not named after an olympian anyways

[tardy cedar]

@bright void regarding the bit about the hammers in #h1-discussion its probably lore related

[bright void]

I mean, yeah, probably. Although I think 2500 years doesn't require a spoiler alert.

But if this is the channel to discuss lore/flavor stuff, then it's a focused discussion.

[tardy cedar]

ah yeah its more for me bc im liable to start talking about lore stuff a bit too much so i dont wanna pollute discussion

[onyx spoke]

hypnos just congratulated me for 100 deaths but I have 101 runs

even if it's counting the 'victory death', something's off

[harsh sleet]

maybe he wasn’t there for ur 100th run

[sour helm]

Or he had other dialogue that pushed it back. I think you're limited on how much special dialogue you can get in one trip home

I had Chaos mention Nyx a while ago, but I only just got the option to talk to momma about it, and then my next few conversations were all Chaos related because it built up

[west moat]

so uh exagryph is Hestia's gun

[amber canyon]

Yep

[west moat]

chance hestia will show up: greatly increased in my mind

[digital crag]

gun

[bright void]

Do you think that we would eventually escape? Does it feel fitting for Zag to actually escape?

Maybe he goes god of war style and climbs olympus and murders everyone

[livid lance]

Personally I think whatever happens when Zag reaches the surface is going to make him go mad and fight his way back down to smack hades in the face

[runic terrace]

i would love to see zag smack hades in the face

[bright void]

Devil May Cry 4 style of "play the game in reverse order"

[onyx spoke]

zag: "I've finally made it, mother"
persephone: "oh zagreus that's great! did you bring cerberus?"
zag: "one sec" hits 'give up'

[normal talon]

persephone, on the surface when zag finally breaks out: YES!!!!! THATS MY SON

[strange cipher]

Hey all just wanted to remind you that doggo is definitely going to be the final boss.

@bright void If you don't escape at the end of the game, I'm gonna be genuinely upset.
"You beat the game! All the bosses! You traversed the entire underworld! Here are the credits! Also you immediately die and go back."
Like, wtf? 😛

I would maybe accept it if it were, "Many years later, Zagreus is slain on the surface world." I'd even be okay if it does the annoying Zelda thing of, "the game doesn't save after you beat it," aside from maybe getting some cool postgame things in the House of Hades.

But if we get some Dead Cells bs that's like, "The cycle is endless. 'Winning' the game changes nothing," then I'm gonna be pretty dang mad and feel like my entire experience was wasted. 😃

(tl;dr Beating games should feel like you've accomplished something. So I want an actual ending.)

[visual laurel]

SGG puts a lot of emphasis on narrative; I'm sure there will be a proper conclusion

[neat crow]

I think Greg has talked about this in one of the AMAs?

[strange cipher]

@visual laurel Very valid point. It is probably best to compare Hades to other Supergiant Games, rather than other roguelikes (which is a genre that has historically frustrated and disappointed me). This game has time and again circumvented a lot of the issues I have with other games in the genre.

[neat crow]

I found the response from Greg that I was thinking of (I think) https://discordapp.com/channels/456889434672201729/477164376496013323/535903888461791244

[strange cipher]

Kind of addresses it without actually addressing it.

[bright jasper]

i had an idea that was like he gets to the surface after elysium & then has to fight the gods on the surface or something bc they're like "we helped you out so much, but you don't even want to be with us?"

bc they think you're escaping to be with them, but i feel like zagreus just wants to live in peace with his mom

i'm also wondering if you're gonna make peace with hades by the time you get out, or if you're gonna be butting heads the whole time? if you ended up working stuff out with hades it gives you a reason to go back to tartarus & fight up again

i'm excited to see where it goes

[west moat]

I bet hades will get a keepsake

the hardest one to get

because he's a butt.

hmm, artemis is less... personally offended than the rest of the gods if you don't choose her in a trial of the gods

[strange cipher]

@bright jasper Hades is the reason everyone is trying to stop you. If you made peace, you could probably just walk out of Hell.

[bright jasper]

oh right that slipped my mind

[sick grove]

Even Hades has said something about how even he hasnt found a way to escape this place, ala 'you think I havent tried, boy?' or something like that. However, that could be interpreted as 'stuck' in different ways.

Though I still don't think we should 'make peace' with Hades, I do wish he'd step away from the workplace a bit more and let everyone relax.

[drifting citrus]

i mean

people be dying yo

[strange cipher]

But like

Doggo is definitely the final boss.

[bright void]

Yeah, they do that and i tell everyone not to buy the game

[strange cipher]

Oh stop

[west moat]

fight cerberus? that would be horrible and also you could not convince him to do it

dog loyal

[strange cipher]

to Hades

Cerberus is guardian of the Underworld, whose sole purpose is to prevent the dead from leaving.

It writes itself.

[bright void]

Of course it does, that's why I find it lame. "It was me, doggo, all along"

"I've been brooding all this time because I knew what I would eventually have to do"

[drifting citrus]

i mean

he's the guardian of the underworld

is he supposed to not do his job

[neat crow]

I believe it's mentioned in the game that Cerberus hasn't been guarding the gates as diligently as before

The venerable hound of hell barely acknowledges the softly-spoken Prince's platitude, knowing full well the Underworld is not as vigilantly guarded as in ages past.

[drifting citrus]

😢

[neat crow]

I really would be surprised if they made Cerberus a boss

[visual laurel]

Like...75% of the team has a dog
And while SGG stories are sad, they aren't cheap
Shooting the dog is a cheap tearjerker move and I think that not only are they above that, but that they wouldn't want to go that way just because literally all of them love dogs

Besides Zag's description of the underworld early on makes it sound like Elysium is his last stop before the surface and the Elysium bosses are theseus and asterius

I don't think Cerb would be all the way out of the Underworld

I don't think Cerb would be all the way out of the Underworld

[west moat]

there is another biome planned

but even still

[visual laurel]

Yeah but like at the beginning

[neat crow]

My current theory is the final biome is the mortal plane (surface)

[visual laurel]

Zag looks out over Tartarus and says something like, "First get past the wretched shades of Tartarus, doubtless Meg will be waiting. Past the river of flame to Elysium, and then..."

[strange cipher]

It’s not like you would permanently murder Cerberus. That would be terrible.

[visual laurel]

No but you'd still be beating up a dog

It's still cheap

I'd hope they wouldn't go that low looking for an easy sad moment

[strange cipher]

“A god”

It’s bleeping Cerberus.

[sick grove]

Cerb seems like one of the only Underworld cast who isn't burdened by the Hades-man himself. I'd be fine with hearing Hades' disappointment with Cerb's terrible attempt at keeping Zag at home, or even a fake-out moment where Cerb lets you pass by.

[visual laurel]

The game treats him like a dog, man

Regardless of whatever myth is

[strange cipher]

A massive, three-headed hellhound, but yes.

[bright void]

So we expect the last biome to be the final one, roadmap pointed to that

[strange cipher]

Last does mean final.

[bright void]

i meant next one. 4 biomes is all the game has?

[strange cipher]

That they have planned.

[drifting citrus]

i mean, currently runs are about 30-40 mins, average

[strange cipher]

I think fighting Cerberus would be a cool twist. I’m having difficulty seeing it as a “cheap sad” moment.

Just a really cool final boss.

[drifting citrus]

another biome would push that near 45+ territory

[visual laurel]

i mean that's valid, i just don't think he's been built up as a boss so far

narratively he's been contextualized as a family pet

in any other story i'd say, sure, cerberus would be a cool boss

[strange cipher]

It’s still implied that he guards the gates of hell.

[neat crow]

While the roadmap is certainly just what is planned, something like a biome takes a massive amount of work. I'd be surprised if they added an extra one, whereas adding something like an extra NPC would be less work if they decided to throw one in that wasn't planned for.

[drifting citrus]

elysium's the final level of hell, ye? so wouldn't that mean there'd have to be a whole biome just to reach the gates of hell

[neat crow]

Onyx's point about run time is also a good one, and I think the devs have touched on run time as a limiting factor as well

[strange cipher]

Why is run time important?

Just out of curiosity.

[neat crow]

Because the intent is that you can do a full run in one sitting

[drifting citrus]

i would think they would've put cerb as the elysium boss since elysium is right next to the surface

[west moat]

longer run time makes the game less easy to play in one sitting

[drifting citrus]

ah, was replying to clawandorder's comment, about how the game would "only" have four biomes

[bright void]

My guess is feedback loop. If the runs are too long, then you don't get back to the mirror quick enough to progress? I haven't even tried, but can I stop in the middle of a run without it failing me?

[west moat]

you can.

[drifting citrus]

you can quit in the middle of a room if you haven't taken damage yet

if you have, you have to give up the run

[neat crow]

You can, yes, but I wouldn't say it's ideal or satisfying

[west moat]

you can also quit post-room finish

and come back

[drifting citrus]

just not if you've taken damage in a room while the room is still going on

[strange cipher]

@drifting citrus I had to give up a run because I entered a room and no enemies spawned. Though that was like 4 updates ago.

[drifting citrus]

a lot has changed in four updates

[strange cipher]

I mean, on the one hand I understand the one-sitting thing.

But also, it’s a complete game.

You don’t want it to be too short.

[drifting citrus]

this is my only rogue-like i've played, so i'm not sure of what the ideal run time is

[neat crow]

That doesn't mean the average person will complete the game in under an hour

[strange cipher]

It’s the only good one I’ve played.

[drifting citrus]

but i do know that i could do double the runs i could before the beefy update than i can now

[neat crow]

Most people will take dozens of runs to finish it

[strange cipher]

Obviously.

I’ve failed dozens of times myself, as I’m sure plenty of people have.

I’ve honestly failed against Theseus and the Minotaur more times than I’ve beaten them.

[drifting citrus]

i do know that this roguelike is a little unique because it uses the failed runs as part of the experience

and as part of the story

[neat crow]

So much of the narrative relies on subsequent runs, so there will always be more to explore every time. That is another reason why short runs are good. If it took you 2 hours to progress the story meaningfully and you had to do that several times to accomplish something, it might not feel good

[strange cipher]

A lot of the game’s bulk is built around trying over and over again.

But I still feel like a full run should feel like a journey.

And in my opinion, with one more biome, it’s at a pretty good length.

[neat crow]

I don't disagree, necessarily, but it's hard to nail down a satisfying "journey" experience in the roguelike genre

[drifting citrus]

i just hope the devs watch the hp a little lmao

[neat crow]

But yeah, 4 biomes feels about right to me as well

[drifting citrus]

its strange how theseus and asterius alone can take up so much of your run time

[strange cipher]

@drifting citrus Dead Cells does that too, with failed attempts. But let’s not talk about Dead Cells. I don’t wanna rant tonight. 😛

[drifting citrus]

well, not strange i guess, but interesting to note

[neat crow]

I find that Elysium as a whole takes about the same amount of time as the first two biomes together

[drifting citrus]

oh i noticed that too, my runs were 15-20 minutes before, and now they're 30+

[neat crow]

Same

[drifting citrus]

and i feel like i'll get tired easier if each individual runs push up to 45+

BUT tbf i am speaking as an early access player, players buying on release probably won't have this problem

[neat crow]

True enough

[bright void]

How long does a dead-cells run take?

That's probably the closest equivalent; maybe binding of Isaac?

[neat crow]

Wizard of Legend is a good comparison to Hades gameplay-wise, I think

[merry sorrel]

what about netHack

[bright void]

Well, Wizard of LEgend is more true rogueish where there are no permanent upgrades

[strange cipher]

The Last of Us

wait

[bright void]

or whatever the "no perma upgrades" term is

[merry sorrel]

netHack is very no permanent upgrades

[neat crow]

In technical(?) terms, Hades is a roguelite

[merry sorrel]

roguelite that is a bit heavier in rogue than other roguelite games

[neat crow]

But I don't mean in mechanical terms that they're similar, just in how the game itself plays during a run

[bright void]

Slay the Spire; Wizard of Legend seem rogue-like in that you unlock stuff; but they're all balanced so each run is about the same power level

Where as hades each run can be a diff power level

[strange cipher]

The thing about Hades is that in order to determine proper balance they need a steady influx of new players at every update.

[neat crow]

Based on what I've seen from people coming into the Discord, they have been getting new players at each major update

[strange cipher]

A new player and an experienced player are two very, very different experiences in this game.

Especially when being exposed to new content.

[drifting citrus]

^

[strange cipher]

For one it’s new content building upon a lot of already completed content, and for the other it’s just the base game for how they start.

[drifting citrus]

i'll probably start with a new save when the game releases, but my experience will totally different than with a new player playing at release

[strange cipher]

Yeah.

[merry sorrel]

we are basically doing crowd funded QA work?

[west moat]

more or less.

[drifting citrus]

it also totally changes depending on how many similar games one has played before, and their skill level with them

[west moat]

but it's fun to do so I'm not really complaining.

[strange cipher]

I suppose.

[snow brook]

I mean you don't have to do the QA part if you don't like, you could just play.

[west moat]

I guess it's less likely to catch edge cases.

[snow brook]

It's really only QA if you smash that F10 button. Or I guess submit feedback.

[drifting citrus]

or do the actual qa job

[west moat]

but quantity is its own sort of quality.

[bright void]

Sure, it is

[drifting citrus]

which btw, did we ever get a confirmation that someone took that job

[bright void]

I mean.. you need sheer volumes of players combining this and that boon

The number of permutations is really high

You need to brute force some things

[strange cipher]

I think even if you don’t submit feedback through the proper means, discussing our experience amongst each other still heavily contributes to QA.

[bright void]

Even voting in the feedback channel helps

[strange cipher]

Sometimes devs lurk, or sometimes one person’s experience will contribute to another person’s official feedback, or whatnot.

Wait we can vote?

[west moat]

yes you can vote even if you're not able to post

a quirk of the discord channel system

[strange cipher]

I mean

There are polls?!

[west moat]

#hades-feedback

[merry sorrel]

this is a pretty good system, fans have limited money to contribute but with this Early Access system we can donate time instead of cash, and you can hear a lot more varied feedbacks

[snow brook]

Well not exactly, but styxbot adds 3 reactions to each post in the #hades-feedback channel, and by clicking them you can also "vote."

[bright void]

I dunno, is the price "cheaper" during EA? Aside from the epic games sale

[drifting citrus]

i mean, it was $20 at the start, and now it's 25? i think

[neat crow]

Yeah, the feedback channel, as mentioned, has "voting" of a sort. I suggest reading the pinned posts in that channel regarding the rules and what the reactions mean, as well as the intended scope of the feedback provided

As far as the devs lurking, they do far more than lurk in here. At least a few of them are relatively active in the Discord

And they regularly do Q&As here, too

[merry sorrel]

I guess this is how the quality improves with every game

[bright void]

Only if you're not Blizzard entertainment. If you are, then you open up PTR and beta for 6 months. And then take all the player feedback and throw it in the trash, and do whatever the hell you want anyways.

[merry sorrel]

is it that bad

also I think Blizzard salt goes to off-topic if we want to go in depth about thatà

[bright void]

I'm just saying that this game company is awesome and this process of early access and listening to "beta tester" / "early accessor" feedback is awesome.

[merry sorrel]

also, I noticed that only Bastion had WB as publisher, later games got published by themselves

Hades is currently exclusive to epic games as early access goes but the publisher is still listed as Supergiant Games

[snow brook]

Oh and regarding the price being cheaper during EA, SGG has said they will adjust the games price as more content gets added.

[strange cipher]

If I recall, the Overwatch team has blatantly stated that they do the PTR for stability reasons, and not actual feedback. Which is... great...

[merry sorrel]

stability reasons?

[snow brook]

That is often the reason for test realms.

[merry sorrel]

like, soak tests?

[snow brook]

Simply to make sure there are no game breaking crashes, and not for balancing reasons.

[strange cipher]

I’m not an expert I’m just going off memory.

[merry sorrel]

so, mass soak tests

[strange cipher]

Basically what Dino said, to my understanding.

[neat crow]

I love that SGG listens to the fan feedback, but also that they don't listen too hard if that makes sense

[snow brook]

I mean maybe, I am not a $admin kinda guy.

[merry sorrel]

smoke + soak if you want but it sounded like mass soak testing

[snow brook]

Yeah that makes sense Wight, I get that.

[merry sorrel]

if you try to please everybody then you please no one

[strange cipher]

This is off topic but when I typed “und” my phone wanted to correct it to “underwear” before “understanding”.

@neat crow Exactly. Such as, if they intended for Cerberus to be the final boss, I hope they don’t cave to fan outcry. 😛

Bringing it full circle, y’all.

[snow brook]

More people wear underwear than there are understanding people. Deep cuts by autocorrect.

[merry sorrel]

how can you know this, did you check

[snow brook]

Really makes you think.

[digital crag]

[strange cipher]

Though the Cerberus theory has been debunked if Elysium is, in fact, the final level of Hell.

I remember someone suggesting Hades himself would be the final boss, but I honestly think Cerberus makes more sense.

Whatever it is, I look forward to how awesome it’s going to be.

[snow brook]

I mean Cerb is the gatekeeper for Hell, not the warden ya feel me?

[strange cipher]

Eh?

[snow brook]

Like his job is to guard the gates.

For those coming in, not going out.

[bright void]

According to mythos, he is the warden.

[snow brook]

Oh lawd

[bright void]

No.. his job is to prevent the dead from escaping

[snow brook]

Thanatos is our warden in the game though.

[strange cipher]

The very first thing you see when you google Cerberus is that he’s meant to keep the dead from escaping.

[snow brook]

Right but when Hades says you can't leave this place, and he has tried, I don't think he means that Cerb is stopping him :p

[merry sorrel]

can we fight Janus instead I don't feel like hurting a dog

[strange cipher]

What if doggo hurts you tho

[snow brook]

No because Janus is a Roman god

[merry sorrel]

maybe cerberus stopped hades by being too cute and understanding

not wrong but that's what you do when you have an unwanted job

you hire an outsider

[snow brook]

Big brain hours.

[merry sorrel]

so they don't get caught in the family business drama

[strange cipher]

I feel like it has to be a preestablished character tho, right?

Get to the final boss in the game,
“Hi, I’m person you know from mythology, but not this game up to this point!”

[merry sorrel]

Egyptian gods had cameos in greek stuff so I don't see why romans can't be there

[snow brook]

I mean what would be powerful enough to stop Hades from leaving. And I don't mean something like "duty", but an actual entity.

[strange cipher]

I mean if done right that could still work. Actually yeah it’ll probably be that.

But it’d be really cool if it’s a preestablished character in-game.

@snow brook The other gods? Zeus?

[merry sorrel]

if it's going to be Nyx I'll probably cry

[snow brook]

I mean the version of Greek mythology we have now with all the assorted gods is basically a mishmash of a bunch of different religions, cults, etc in the Mediterranean area.

And around Greece.

[strange cipher]

Nyx doesn’t even have a character model/sprite.

[snow brook]

Yet...

[merry sorrel]

she will have one since we are gifting her ambrosia

[strange cipher]

I feel like that would be a higher priority if she were so important.

[snow brook]

Though her placeholder I think is one of the best fitting ones, and I think I have seen a decent amount of feedback that reflects that. It leaves her kinda shrouded in mystery and such, like the night.

[merry sorrel]

have you heard of artist block

[strange cipher]

Not that she’s not important.

But there’s a difference between important NPC and NPC that’s kinda also the final boss.

[snow brook]

Yeah maybe they haven't locked down a design they truly love yet.

[merry sorrel]

and it takes a totally different mindset to draw Patroclus or Asterius compared to drawing Nyx

or draw Than

so maybe they are just brewing on the idea slowly

[strange cipher]

Hey so

[snow brook]

Anyway the final boss is Skelly.

[digital crag]

i think greg said that character portraits will be updated at the same time a bunch of writing content for them is updated

[strange cipher]

IF Elysium is the final layer of Hell, what’s the final biome?

[snow brook]

I might lose my modship to leak that but you know how it be, the people gotta know.

I think a popular theory (which I agree with) is the Labyrinth.

[strange cipher]

@snow brook Ah yes, the one character not from Greek mythology in any capacity. Perfect. 😃

[snow brook]

Excuse me, there are plenty of skeletons in Greek mythology.

Also we don't really know his true identity yet, which is why he would be a PERFECT final boss. This whole time he is just sitting there taking a beating, and when you are just about to escape it is his turn to dish one out.

[strange cipher]

I feel like The Labyrinth was a biome,

[merry sorrel]

wait are we going to face the Goblin King (and his area)

(bad joke choice)

[strange cipher]

THAT would be where we fight Theseus and the Minotaur.

[snow brook]

The game was originally meant to be in the Labyrinth I believe, since a lot of the original assets have the temporary name "Minos"

Also Theseus got outta the Labyrinth y'know? And maybe he just died later on and was chilling with Asterius.

[strange cipher]

I feel like the Labyrinth would be a good DLC biome. I dunno about the final stretch of the game.

In Greek lore, where is the exit from Hell on the material plane?

[earnest shore]

spoiler alert the final boss of hades is falcon ron

[snow brook]

There are multiple exits, including a few in the Labyrinth I believe.

[strange cipher]

Interesting.

That’s why Cerberus has three heads.

To guard different entrances.

It makes perfect sense.

[digital crag]

in canon lore there's a river that goes all around the world i think

[strange cipher]

Styx, presumably.

[merry sorrel]

I thought it was four or five different rivers

[digital crag]

the entrance to hades is just like.....eh, somewhere ?

[snow brook]

There was never exactly a definitive exit/entrance to Hades. Romans thought it was in a little edge on the west coast of Italy.

There are 5 rivers sol.

[merry sorrel]

I can never remember the name of the 5th one

[snow brook]

But the one that carries the dead for entrance to Hades is the Styx specifically.

[digital crag]

there are so many dang heroes who randomly traipse down to hades

[snow brook]

Yeah but how many of them actually leave.

[strange cipher]

I played Hades in a high school skit about Orpheus.

[digital crag]

odysseus just kinda..... did it

dunno how that worked

[strange cipher]

It for our play that year that was an anthology of Greek myths.

I wore sunglasses, a black baseball cap, and a black trenchcoat.

[digital crag]

orpheus, aeneas, dionysus

[snow brook]

Hey kid, you wanna buy some souls?

[strange cipher]

SGG give us that skin for Zag, please.

[merry sorrel]

(I keep thinking that sorrow and lamentation were one river somehow, despite Cocytus being jRPG area in most of the games)

gosh I have Aeneas callout to do

[strange cipher]

Dionysus was a god tho.

[digital crag]

please call out aeneas

[snow brook]

Sorrow, lamentation, oblivion, fire, and hate

Are the 5 rivers.

[merry sorrel]

dionysus was maybe a demigod depending on which obscure version you pick

[strange cipher]

Such cheerful names.

So like the Raven Queen.

[snow brook]

Oh also another possibility for the final area besides the Labyrinth is Mount Olympus

Other than those two I dunno what it would be.

[digital crag]

oh and heracles

[strange cipher]

Olyumpus is my hope.

[digital crag]

he went to hades and rescued a soul which is something that only dionysus has also been able to do

[merry sorrel]

I mean, do you prefer those names to run away really fast names for the rivers, or do you want the chinese ones that sound okay but are plagued with demons and stuff and you can maybe even get eaten by flowers if you stray

[strange cipher]

Well, I dunno if my “hope”

But I always thought it would be cool to have an Olympus biome where you fight the gods.

[merry sorrel]

I'll go callout Aeneas in the off topic

[snow brook]

The Yellow Springs

[strange cipher]

But I don’t know if that’s the ending they’re going for.

Maybe it as well would be better suited for DLC.

[snow brook]

I mean maybe you gotta fight Demeter to get to her daughter y'know?

Like she is afraid you will try to convince her to go back to Hades and she doesn't want that outcome.

[digital crag]

no wait i was thinking of a different thing

heracles rescued theseus out of hades one time and also kidnapped cerberus

and separately he also went down to hades, punched thanatos, and took a shade called alcestis

[strange cipher]

I assume he kidnapped Cerberus

[digital crag]

dude just caused a lot of havoc in the underworld

[strange cipher]

to pet him.

[digital crag]

it was for his twelve tasks but like, temporarily

[merry sorrel]

dognapped

[digital crag]

he borrowed cerberus

[merry sorrel]

borrowed without consent

I can't imagine our Thanatos' reaction to getting punched by Hercules though

is that what made him emo goth

from pastel goth

[digital crag]

oh i'm sure he's still extremely salty about it

[snow brook]

To be fair, Heracles didn't have too much of a choice about the whole dognapping Cerberus thing.

[digital crag]

so i guess you can add theseus to the list of people who made it into and out of hades too

most of him anyways

[snow brook]

Yeah but he got helped by Herc. Kinda cheaty.

[digital crag]

his buttcheeks stayed behind

[merry sorrel]

that's not exactly what I remembered but okay

[strange cipher]

It’s canon.

[digital crag]

i am completely serious about the butt thing

and all i want from hades is just one no-butt theseus joke

[merry sorrel]

it's like the word for getting stabbed in the chest also sounded like... well...

probably?

[simple sparrow]

I mean, you'd have better odds hoping for Theseus to be like 'And I want it back!'

[digital crag]

after his death he was reunited with his butt in the underworld 😔

what a beautiful love story

[simple sparrow]

Quick question... Does anyone know how often Theseus uses compound sentences?

In comparison to single-clause ones?

[snow brook]

Yeah like 22% of the time.

[simple sparrow]

I just want to know whether I could honestly make jokes about how he's a man with 'no room for ifs, ands, or butts.'

[earnest shore]

wait what happened to his butt

[simple sparrow]

Okay.

[snow brook]

Butt got stuck in a rock

[simple sparrow]

GOd, I hate when that happens to me

[digital crag]

long story short he went down to hades to kidnap persephone (ugh), hades stuck him on a snake chair, later heracles came by and pulled him out of the chair but.....well

[simple sparrow]

And then you have to wait for the rightful king of England to come and get it out...

[earnest shore]

did hades superglue his butt to a chair??

[digital crag]

....yes

[merry sorrel]

I thought his friend was the one who got stuck like that

[snow brook]

I mean in some myths he gets stuck on a rock when he sits on it.

[merry sorrel]

he went with another young man

[strange cipher]

This is completely and utterly absurd but also sounds 100% like something that would be in Greek mythology.

[snow brook]

And later when Herc comes to dognap Cerberus, he kinda brings Theseus along and Theseus persuades Persephone to forgive him.

But when they tried to bring his boy out too, the whole world shook

So I like to think that Theseus left his butt in the world as well, to stabilize it or something.

Maybe he is the reason we don't have a flat earth.

[strange cipher]

What

What

[merry sorrel]

if that's how it went what the heck was Atlas carrying

[snow brook]

Ya feel me

[digital crag]

i am the flat butt truther

[earnest shore]

so it’s just GONE

[strange cipher]

So uh

What

[snow brook]

Well it's not gone, it just makes up the two hemispheres of our globe.

[simple sparrow]

Titan Atlas holds up the sky. Theseus' butt holds up the sky too, but on the other side.

Hence, round earth.

[digital crag]

🤔

[earnest shore]

final biome is theseus’ butt

[snow brook]

Theseus' butt is what Atlas stands on.

[strange cipher]

And arrested.

[snow brook]

I can arrange that

[simple sparrow]

I'm pretty sure this is within legal rules?

P. Sure?

[snow brook]

I can't arrest you tho.

[merry sorrel]

no look the sky is an entity, so

[snow brook]

Right but so is Chaos

But they are both an entity and the entire universe. Like Tartarus.

[strange cipher]

Wait someone deleted what I said, lol.

[snow brook]

Or Gaea, Uranos

That was me, you said you felt like you should be banned 😉

[merry sorrel]

Atlas is standing on Theseus' rock solid butts holding up Ouranos by the butts, is that what I am supposed to be picturing

[snow brook]

Next is the arrest 👮

[digital crag]

dionysus went to hades to rescue his mom which is kind of sweet

[strange cipher]

No I meant us, collectively.

[simple sparrow]

I didn't agree to that

[snow brook]

Yeah but banning a single message for a joke is easier than banning like 12 people and then having to explain myself to the others later.

[simple sparrow]

Theseus is a cut above. Some, you can bounce a quarter off of. Him, though... He goes for the glute exercises that let you hold up the entire sky.

Alright, I'll stop

[snow brook]

Anyway the last biome is Labyrinth which is composed of Theseus' butt and Skelly is the final boss.

[digital crag]

my penance walk will never be over

[strange cipher]

That’s what we’ve learned.

[snow brook]

Don't tell anybody where you learned this.

If someone asks say it was the gameFAQs forums.

[merry sorrel]

wouldn't it be more believable if you said tumblr

[simple sparrow]

Skelly: <Flashsteps behind Zag> 'Sorry Boyo. Nothing personal.'

[snow brook]

Tumblr doesn't allow NSFW content anymore so how could we post the truth about Theseus' butt.

[simple sparrow]

Hey, this is a PG rated conversation.

[snow brook]

Not if you keep saying the butt word 😡

[merry sorrel]

butt is not above PG is it

[snow brook]

b*tt

[strange cipher]

Hades’s rating is upping to an M with the release of the next biome.

[digital crag]

how are you going to explain yourself to the parental guidance

[strange cipher]

Reasons:
Butt, Violence

[merry sorrel]

heroic butt

[snow brook]

Hades reaches for that PEGI 7 rating by changing the tagline of the game to "Escape from Heck"

[merry sorrel]

Escape from Dad might be more accurate

[digital crag]

ambrosia is just lemonade now

[merry sorrel]

sprite

[digital crag]

mountain dew

[merry sorrel]

zellers soda (might be expired)

[cold canopy]

its orange juice guys

zag needs his vitamins

[merry sorrel]

infused fruit water

*no sugar added, sweetened with stevia extracts

[digital crag]

lacroix

the olympians are just mega hipsters

[simple sparrow]

https://i.imgur.com/ukjGUjM.png

[merry sorrel]

oh please this is boring compared to some others I have witnessed

remember how Neil Gaiman himself felt that he was not old enough to enter the Aziraphale tag in tumblr

[simple sparrow]

Fair.

Tell you what, I'll try to bump up the appropriacy of that pic a tad.

https://i.imgur.com/ZIcIgB9.png

Okay. Better?

[digital crag]

sensible chuckle

[merry sorrel]

not enough cough

[simple sparrow]

Alright, well, if you want to bump up the quotient, I'll leave that to you... As well as the potential ban.

[bright void]

Have they confirmed or denied that anything will exist behind these two locked doors in the house of hades?

[sly citrus]

Please be a secret level where you fight kangaroos

[sour helm]

Maybe a room for Persephone? Or an endless room

Or a challenge hallway like the beach in Transistor?

[sick grove]

I would LOVE challenge content, like in Binding of Isaac. Things like: start your run with Aphrodite legendary and an Aphrodite boon in first room. Damage done to enemies reduced by 75%. Damage done to charmed enemies increased 500%, as well as damage dealt by charmed enemies. Friendly fire is on. +300% more mobs.

Artemis Challenge: Start with Artemis legendary and Artemis boon. For each successive hit on an enemy, increase the amount of damage you deal to them by 10%. Enemies have 500% more heath.

And then for bonus, as you're doing a challenge run, the character specific to this challenge run sometimes pops in to deliver some unique dialogue.

[strange cipher]

I hope for more story events.

Like the dream.

[sick grove]

I'm sure they've got some lined up. Must be hard to implement, what with the impact it'll have on the rest of the game

[strange cipher]

Yeah, it's hard to add content to a game that would be activated at a previous point than a lot of players have achieved.

But that shouldn't discourage them.

The point is to make the best completed game.

[sick grove]

I wouldn't say discourage. I'd say 'should take them a long time to get right'

[strange cipher]

Not a game primarily tailored to people who have been playing it through development.

I'm already sad that all the meta temporary dialogue is going to be removed, because it's great, but in the long term it needs to go for the game to be completed.

I mean, it exists to acknowledge that the game's not complete.

It would make no sense to keep it, lol.

[cunning needle]

i’ll miss the very small but very deadly beetle

[strange cipher]

hahaha

I was thinking about the "renovations" conversations between Zag and Hades, but yeah.

Those quips from the narrator as well.

[sick grove]

It'll be neat to see what a zero-context run looks like when a full run is implemented. If someone hasn't seen the dream yet, how does the end of a run play out?

I think they did a great job already of implementing Achilles and Patroclus. Players who are fast enough to get to Pat get different dialogue in a different order, which is different than all of those who've been playing since launch.

[strange cipher]

I'm not a fan of alternate endings in games, but it'd be cool if they did a BotW/Celeste thing.

The experience is different context-wise depending on where you go or who you talk to, but one way or another all roads lead to the same outcome.

[sick grove]

Yup! It's really well done.

It's also a way to meet the needs of implementing new content while subscribing to a 'living world' beta.

The war was a great way to hint at Than and bring him into the living world of the game, without 'blinking' him in to existence. And, the knowledge of the war didn't solely exist for recurring players, it's something that's still hinted at within the base game (with Than now locked behind a run-count) for new saves.

It's a super neat approach to trying to appease both living world players and players waiting for the 'full release' of content. Not a lot is really sacrificed this way, though I still can't think of a way to preserve Hades early access renovation and the narrator's cheeky dialogue.

I guess... when you hit end run... it could play out the narrator's end screen VO before instantly killing you?

[strange cipher]

Yeah I'm rioting if they pull a Dead Cells.

They did the same thing with the Furies that they did with Thanatos.

Meg's sisters were off in the war.

I honestly liked Meg as the boss of Tartarus.

I also like that they added the other two Furies, but that's because they were new additions to my experience, after achieving a notable rapport between Zag and Meg.

[sick grove]

Personally I did too, but I also think it helps stretch out Meg's growth over a longer stretch of runs for new players as well.

[strange cipher]

I don't know whether or not they're around from the start for new players.

[drifting citrus]

they're not

they show up later, like than

[bright void]

What in all the five rivers of hell. "Bull of minos" is not a simple "skull fight" it should be like double skull

[bright void]

Oh, well that's neat. The bull started with less than 100% health in the boss fight. I guess it was worth it.

[lunar kiln]

Yeah if you beat asterius in his chamber he starts with less health in the final fight

[atomic shale]

@strange cipher wait what dream?

[frozen jolt]

I’m assuming “dream” means the flashback in which zag learns about his mother?

[atomic shale]

yea that's what i was thinking too

but idk

[frozen jolt]

no other dream-adjacent things in the game as far as I can recall

maybe the remembrances but you encounter these during runs so they’re not rlly avoidable

[atomic shale]

rememberances?

[frozen jolt]

The little cutscenes with hades speaking to zag that sometimes play at the start of a run

it’s what they’re called

[atomic shale]

ohh that's what they're called

yea sorry i've probably experienced most things in the game i just don't know what they're called

[frozen jolt]

yeah no worries! They’re not called that anywhere in the game

but devs have referred to them as such, so

[bleak osprey]

@left flume actually, there’s a few similar “hey let’s have a drink in the lounge” conversations with other characters!

[left flume]

Awesome. I really like those.

[strange cipher]

It happens when you go to sleep.

Thus, I call it a dream.

I do really wish the bed was used more often.

Maybe occasionally different gods would visit you in your sleep.

[waxen furnace]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/423945387544543232/584050792596766740/unknown.png chaos CHAOS

[bleak osprey]

holy cow that's a lotta chaos boons

should i start calling you jevil

[lunar kiln]

zag encountering chaos: chaos chaos
(boon makes you take damage if you attack)
zag: i can do nothing

[opaque gust]

Unless I have like 30 health, I will always go for a chaos

The upgrades are just so frequently great

[cosmic crescent]

@lunar kiln Chaos can't kill Zagreus though for what it's worth

[runic terrace]

cant, or wont?

[cosmic crescent]

Probably both.

[lunar kiln]

"entertain me with your one miserable health point, o son of hades"

[cosmic crescent]

Let me tell you one thing though

Chaos can show you a good time with that one HP.

[runic terrace]

ok ok imagine
-chaos curses on special, attack, and dash
-heat that makes extra enemies
-down to one hp

[cosmic crescent]

I think I told it yesterday already

If you have a chaos curse that damages you for doing something, say, the dash

but you are at 1 HP, you can't die

But the game still treats it as you having taken damage

which will increase your Wrath bar

Imagine me fighting Alecto and sitting at 1 HP

dodging constantly to get that wrath bar to 50 so I can use DYONYSUS WRATH of all the wraths

to finally get a kill

[bleak osprey]

pride month reminder: achilles has big strong arms for hugging his boyfriend

[amber canyon]

But Achilles is clearly the little spoon

[bleak osprey]

bold of you to assume little spoon cannot involve hugging

[amber canyon]

Fair point

[bleak osprey]

nobody ever said the spoons had to face the same way

[atomic shale]

i have never thought of that

[amber canyon]

Well then theyre less spoons and more spatulas

[bleak osprey]

they can be whatever they want to be

[digital crag]

non euclidean spoons

allows for simultaneous small and big spooning

order yours today

[visual laurel]

ghost physics are fake and they can do what they want

[bright void]

So all this gay stuff, do you get that hint (or maybe it's explicitly said)., after you give lots of ambrosia to people?

[visual laurel]

I mean if we're talking achilles explicitly then yeah just keep gifting him

[bright void]

So the portraits for Nyx and Sysiphus are "placeholders" and not final art?

[visual laurel]

Yup

[violet nova]

what's the new track for?

don't think i've heard it in the game yet

[visual laurel]

i would assume it's battle music from Elysium?

[cunning needle]

it's in elysium, yes

[hollow garden]

It's the alt Elysium track yeah

[bright void]

Are the locked "ambrosia hearts" because this is early access, or because I haven't given enough ambrosia to others?

[bleak osprey]

locked hearts haven't been implemented yet

[livid lance]

They aren';t available yet

[stark tulip]

It’ll be funny getting hades to 10, I imagine

“Son I’m trying okay”

[harsh sleet]

ok but will i get to smooch than at 10 hearts

[bright void]

Fully expect at 10 hearts meg you'll have achilles performing the wedding cermony

[onyx spoke]

will I get to smooch bouldy at 10

that's what really matters

[visual laurel]

at 10 hearts with achilles and pat, zag performs their wedding ceremony, hello

[digital crag]

my big ghost greek wedding

[onyx spoke]

I just got the 'Nobody' Remembrance scene

yowch poor hades

[strange raptor]

does beating elysium currently unlock anything new?

[cold canopy]

it adds some more dialogue with a few characters!

if youre speaking strictly gameplay then I dont believe so

[bright void]

I want a "making of" video of Hades. Specifically a clip where they tell Tisiphone's voice actress. Ok, we got a great script for you: "Murderer"

[visual laurel]

there are some making of videos!

NoClip is doing a documentary!

The first two episodes are on youtube to watch for free

[bright void]

Dusa is an entirely different gorgon than Medusa, right? This isn't medusa's spirit after she got killed by Perseus? Read on the wiki it could be a play on words "Maid Dusa"

[visual laurel]

Pretty sure she's different but no strict confirmation either way

[snow brook]

In my headcanon (which brought you such marvels as the Skelly is Patroclus theory) Dusa is indeed the head of Medusa, but Medusa's badness and stuff is stuck in her decapitated body.

[digital crag]

medusa did nothing wrong

[snow brook]

Well except for those murders.

And petrifications.