h1-story-discussion

[zenith lichen]

😄

[feral scroll]

nice

[zenith lichen]

Just don't get hit and get your stuff

[lunar kiln]

the pom you're using is like upgrading your boons by 2 levels

[late nacelle]

So does getting a boon have increased chance of rares and epics?

[lunar kiln]

most likely

[late nacelle]

Very neato

[mystic tusk]

the rarity of the pom doesn't affect the rarity of the base boon, per se, it just increases proportionally more than a typical pom would

[lunar kiln]

yeah by 2 lvls

[late nacelle]

Oh, then is that a graphical glitch in the ss I sent

The boons were rare when I got them but epic on the poms

[lunar kiln]

more like symbolizing the fact that hey this pom does more than a regular pom i think

[honest coral]

Hahahah you can trickshot with the gun special

Aim outside the arena and the projectile will bounce off the wall(s)

[tardy cedar]

360 no scope

[lunar kiln]

HoD (hades of duty) EPIC MONTAGE 360 TRICKSHOT

[honest coral]

😄

[feral scroll]

iirc, he talks about being thankful for the gift and how it's such a great gift and that he'll add it to the pile of other gifts to him

@full horizon

[full horizon]

thanks

[feral scroll]

ye

[honest coral]

The new upgrade goes all the way up to 10 😮

so expensive

[feral scroll]

The reroll one?

[honest coral]

Yup

[feral scroll]

damn

[honest coral]

Last upgrade from 9 -> 10 is 50k

[feral scroll]

holy crap

[honest coral]

proxy

[potent cove]

So,, is it actually worth using heat now?

[feral scroll]

slinks into the corner of sin

Yes

Heat rooms w/ double rewards are only available if you have heat active

[honest coral]

It's also worth using heat for speedruns

The enemy speed ☝ increases enemy spawn times and boss speeds

So the enemies spawn quicker, and the bosses have less invuln time, hydra heads spawn quicker, etc

[potent cove]

I literally saw zero point in using it before since the game is hard enough for me as it is, but do you think the extra rewards balance it out?

[honest coral]

Depends what you're looking for

[lunar kiln]

pact is worth the effort for farming darkness

1 heat equals 2% bonus darkness

[feral scroll]

depending on what you feel like you can take as a challenge, like Transistor, Bastion, and Pyre, I found myself only using the ones I really felt like were worth it

[lunar kiln]

used to be 1%

[honest coral]

Repeatedly suiciding and buying darkness from the shopkeeper is also viable for grinding darkness

But it depends how much other resources you have already

Given you can die in 3 seconds (in game timer)

as the die% speedrun shows 👀

[feral scroll]

Ship just w/ the humblebrag

[honest coral]

😔

[feral scroll]

Your speedruns honestly are vv impressive, be proud my dude

[honest coral]

Thanks man

[potent cove]

I used a fair few of the God pact debuff thingies (forgotten what they're called) in Bastion
But I completely ignored the pact of punishment the instant I found out what was under the sheets on the balcony

[honest coral]

I don't want to mention speedrunning to flex on people or something I just find it really interesting and if more people can be interested in it too then it would be great 😄

And it's interesting to see the contrasts between the speedrun and normal """meta"""

[vocal plinth]

Speedruns be like:
"Are there any more frames we can save here. Yes? Let's do it"

[honest coral]

"how many frames can I lose by dashing into a wall 3 times in a row"

[lunar kiln]

"ah but you see, dashing into a wall 3 times in less than 0.24 seconds allows you to clip through it and you can infinity dash to the next area"

[honest coral]

I wish

[lunar kiln]

"simply position yourself in front of this little brick here in this one chamber, turn your back 3/4 to it, and press space as fast as possible, if you failed to clip thru the wall repeat the entire process"

[honest coral]

technically if you set your resolution to 1x1, every single movement is subpixel perfect

[vocal plinth]

Speedrun strat explanations be soundin like dat doe

[tulip vault]

but first

we need to talk about parallel universes

[honest coral]

"First we need to consider, what is a pixel"

[vocal plinth]

It's how you get into Chaos without needing a gate /s

[honest coral]

If only supergiant weren't good coders. Then maybe we could wrong warp to the hydra

😔

[tulip vault]

or even better - wrong warp from the end of the hydra fight back to the first chamber

victory lap

[amber canyon]

Wait wait wait

Heat Poms are twice as effective?

I knew that heat hearts were

[lunar kiln]

everything in heat gates gives twice more stuff

[bleak osprey]

@analog kettle meg does have dialogue for using the pact

[analog kettle]

Ah, I just didn't trigger it on my one 15 Heat run...

[bleak osprey]

yeah, the thresholds are 10 heat and 60 heat for the two dialogues she has (you won't see the 60 heat one til you've seen the 10 heat one)

[zenith lichen]

Yes

But you can have more heat right

To get them both

[analog kettle]

Awesome! That will inspire me to attempt a few more heated runs.

[bleak osprey]

i don't get what you're asking, turtle

[analog kettle]

I'm a mediocre middle aged gamer. I generally just like to unwind by thrashing the Hydra and slowly trying to hit whatever the cap is on the new "Fated Authority" ability is... at 13.5k Darkness I think I've got always to go, and doing easy runs fast is less stress than doing more rewarding runs and failing repeatedly.

I think it's a minimum threshold... so at least 10 and at least 60 if you want to trigger the dialogue.

[bleak osprey]

it takes 165,000 darkness to max out fated authority.

[zenith lichen]

What

[analog kettle]

[zenith lichen]

I mean like

If you have more than 10 or 60

You can get both dialogues right ?

😄

[bleak osprey]

no, only one per run

[analog kettle]

At least 10 Heat and you get Megaera Convo' 1, and at least 60 to get convo' 2.

[zenith lichen]

Ye I didn't meant both in the same run

Just the amount of heat

[analog kettle]

And thank you for responding UR, do you check the r/hadesthegame subreddit for feedback as well as the Discord?

[bleak osprey]

i mean, i don't, but i'm just a moderator, i'm not part of supergiant

[analog kettle]

Kk, it would be cool to know.

And how do you know the cap for Fated Authority?

[bleak osprey]

because i'm magical and know where in the game files to look to find information

[zenith lichen]

He is an IT wizard

[bleak osprey]

not a he

[analog kettle]

Ah, I'm not that technically inclined.

[zenith lichen]

She is an IT wizard

[bleak osprey]

wrong again

c'mon, my pronouns are literally right there if you click my name

[zenith lichen]

😄

Lemme check

[tardy cedar]

The destroyer of all known worlds is an IT wizard

[zenith lichen]

monkaS

They are an IT wizard

[bleak osprey]

thank you.

[tardy cedar]

but yeah they are pretty cool

[zenith lichen]

No pls

[lunar kiln]

hee hee hoo i do

[late nacelle]

Epic thunder strike does 11 damage

Yikes

Normal was 15 before lmao

[bleak osprey]

turtlemush, why are you in the spoilers channel if you don't want spoilers?

[lunar kiln]

oh wait did they rly nerf it that bad

god

[late nacelle]

Its a shame cus its only OP on fast attacking weapons, which generally deal less damage than slower attacking

I wish it was % based chains

[honest coral]

Yeah that was my suggestion too Kafla

It's now pretty balanced on gun but basically useless outside of it

[lunar kiln]

maybe spear? i guess??

[late nacelle]

It might be alright on spear

Yeah

Even so, boons should be good no matter the weapon :/

[honest coral]

yeah spear and flurry blade are still ok

[late nacelle]

Louts are so hecking hard to deal with with the gun

[lunar kiln]

zagreus has become the tf2 demoman

[blazing patrol]

@late nacelle i'm so glad someone else is having trouble

[restive elk]

Sooo Can I say " I'm drunk you dont have an excuse" after I spam Meg to death with Dio's cast?

[late nacelle]

@blazing patrol the dash stutter and the lack of stunning makes it so hard for me, especially when they basically 1 shot you 😢

[blazing patrol]

i never realized how much i appreciated the shield's melee until i lost like thirty health to a single lout

in other news, i finally beat the hydra

[late nacelle]

Ayy congrats, welcome to heat

[blazing patrol]

stacked myself with zeus attack and dionysus dash

and i got the upgrade that lets you reload with dash

[late nacelle]

Since my 1st play through I haven't got dionysus so I don't have his keepsake and I'm so mad

I want him

[blazing patrol]

because the hammer upgrade doesn't make the dash stutter

[honest coral]

I have tons of ambrosia but keep forgetting to gift it to him

[blazing patrol]

i always have at least one extra ambrosia

[late nacelle]

I have so much in reserve, hes the only person I need to ambrosia and i just need to see him once to get the keepsake to let me max him

GIMME MY SEXY WINE DAD

FINALLY HE SHOWED UP

[restive elk]

The thing about tons of ambrosia... I already gifted all of them and the fact that SOMEONE SUDDENLY NEEDS IT ... Is a bit forgotten

[late nacelle]

I forgot what his icon looked like so I thought it was a special darkness room 😂

[restive elk]

Still waiting on that Second song tho

[blazing patrol]

same @restive elk idk how to get it

[restive elk]

Well there is a lead up to it then you tell Orpheus your coooool stories

[late nacelle]

Whats splitting shot moth?

Ohhh, thats OPOP

Its basically a free win

Yeah, its prettyyyyy good

ALso, dionysus's effect stacking

[restive elk]

|| Then there is that thing with Dio about making Orph believe that Zag and Dio one in the same ||

[late nacelle]

Is it good on gun cus of that?

[blazing patrol]

chain lightning + storm lightning + lightning flourish is what got me through the hydra

[late nacelle]

My first hydra win was before sword got buffed with the combo, I was so proud of that hahaha

Using the spear spin with dionysus on it looks so beautiful omg

Its like a puddle of wine

[still beacon]

Got my first statue today
Small steps, but proud
Also the special of the gun with the 3x hammer upgrade is SO strong

[zenith lichen]

The scatter one is pretty fun 😄

[still beacon]

The gun in general right now feels REALLY good

The nerf to zeus is well deserved

[potent cove]

I just found that little sequence wherein Dionysus asks Zag if he wants to play a prank on Orpheus, then next time you're at the house, Zag tells him they're one and the same...

While I appreciate it as a reference to their peculiar historical connection,
it just comes off as kinda mean spirited, to the point of being out of character,

I mean, in my playthrough, Zag had already come to realise that Orpheus believes all his silly stories
so that exchange reads like:

Dionysus: 'ay man, lets mess with Orpheus' head
Zag: Aww hell yeah~ I can't wait to humiliate and emotionally manipulate that loser~

I mean, even if I had found those two conversations in the "correct" order,
I think it would still feel kinda off

[visual laurel]

Zag tells Orpheus stories because they cheer him up as much as anything else

And goes out of his way to tell Orpheus it's made up when it seems like he's taking them too seriously

Zag says multiple times that it's all BS

but in some of the earlier convos he's like "orpheus believes some crazy stuff...he seems like he's having fun though"

[bleak osprey]

"oh no. oh no what have i done. orpheus pls"

[red anvil]

I got the impression that Orpheus knew that they were nonsense (such as when Zag points out that they're not true, and Orpheus says that they're totally true and that he'll spread them far and wide)

[potent cove]

Yeah but Dionysus has no such excuse, he doesn't even seem to know Orpheus
Plus, as I meantioned, Zag had already said the "oh no, what have I done?" line by the time I found this one

[still beacon]

"You know im kidding, right?-"
"Dont be silly~ you would never joke about these things~"
"Oh no-"

He says "what have i done" because Orpheus is now singing to EVERYONE about all the weird stuff zag jokingly told him

[potent cove]

I'm pretty sure Orpheus is smart enough to know what Zag is doing, and is playing along for the lols
but that particular exchange with Dionysus just rubbed me the wrong way

[tulip vault]

(dionysus is a bad influence)

[acoustic condor]

Fated Authority feels a little weak to me for something that can take up to 165k darkness

I know it's like a fun gimmicky thing you do when you've maxed out everything else out but I think at least you shouldn't be able to reroll a god boon into obol

[snow brook]

That is the whole point of it, the risk.

Could be good, could be bad, who knows!

[acoustic condor]

The value is disproportionate to the risk though

1000 darkness is what, 10 runs average?

7 or 8 if you take it to the hydra and get lucky w your rewards

[snow brook]

Right and as you said, its a resource dump.

[acoustic condor]

Yes but it's kind of like

Not that good for what it's worth

[snow brook]

Correct, it isn't meant to be. Just like you don't really get the value out of heat despite it giving you a proportional increase in darkness earned.

[acoustic condor]

That's totally different because heat is about disproportionate difficulty increases

It's totally arbitrary just cuz you want to make the game harder

Mirror of Night stuff is meant to be all Gucci, especially the expensive stuff God's Pride is the Prada of Hades

But Fated Authority kinda sucks

I think at least if you've got a god keepsake and you reroll a god boon it should become the god of that keepsake

[snow brook]

And these are all valid opinions. You should post them in the feedback channel, I think that last idea is really good.

[acoustic condor]

I wanted to but I can't talk in that channel for some reason

[snow brook]

Check the pin.

[acoustic condor]

Ohhhhhhhhh okay

Thanks!

[snow brook]

No problemo

[visual laurel]

re earlier convo: dionysus is a rude boy and this is 100% in character

[acoustic condor]

Important question

Does the Unhealthy Fixation charm make enemies attack other enemies

Because from my experience (only twice and for less than 10 rooms each time, with not many chances to apply the effect reliably) charmed enemies just walk around NOT attacking you but also doing nothing else

Which is strong on paper but in a room with like 15 enemies it doesn't mean much practically, and is kinda lame when they COULD be kicking ass for me as a mega death squad

[zenith lichen]

Is there a fixed amount of heat gates ?

I feel like some runs I get like 3 and some runs none

🤔

[neat crow]

No fixed amount, no. Just like there's no fixed amount of Chaos gates

[zenith lichen]

Ah

They just appear

[tawdry island]

lol

[willow ivy]

The most annoying is when you get a really useful heat gate in the starting chamber, on a no heat run

“Wouldn’t you just love to jam 3 levels into your first boon before you even start the run?”

[lucid matrix]

what's the max percentage you can get to with mirror for rare/epic boon rate increase?

[visual laurel]

50%

each

[round canyon]

Wasn't the epic one 25%?

[visual laurel]

oh, is it? i thought it was 50% each. the wiki probably says

yeah epic is only +25%, sorry

[ancient ocean]

re: the Unhealthy Fixation charm, I've gotten it twice and the first time it was definitely working - had slam dancers tossing bombs at their buddies. It was a good time.

second time was close to the Hydra so it didn't have as much effect, but I was noticing the skeletons that spawn in that fight launching themselves at the big head. Not very effective, but amusing.

[hoary junco]

what is under the 60 heat and last chalenge in the weapon room, are they just more statues of skelly or are they other characters

because i dont think i will ever be able to do a run with more the 50 heat, after that much the game stops being fun for me and just pisses me off

[lunar kiln]

they're all skelly statues

[rapid zinc]

After the second one I sorta figured the last would be as well

[jade hinge]

I wish you'd get skins rather than statues of skelly of all people

[visual laurel]

I'm glad there's nothing like...super consequential behind them

[rapid zinc]

Skins would be incredibly difficult to implement because of how many animations there are

[visual laurel]

because as people have pointed out, like

the pain mode Sucks

it Hurts

and not all of us want to bang our heads against walls for fun 😂

if there was something like, indispensable behind the curtains it would be kind of a bummer to anyone who doesn't wanna suffer for it

so it's a funny little bonus for people who are probably already doing heat runs for the challenge of it

[digital crag]

Implying the skelly lore isn't indispensable for the complete hades experience

[visual laurel]

ur so right jan

hey jan what's your favorite bit of skelly lore

[amber canyon]

Yeah I love the pact and I dont think it should have meaningful rewards

[digital crag]

What

[amber canyon]

Except

Skins for skelly

[tardy cedar]

I think a good balance might be

[amber canyon]

Thatd be dope

Like pirate skelly

[visual laurel]

gkjdfhgdf

[tardy cedar]

Heat can be a way to fast track certain rewards

[rapid zinc]

Skins for Skelly would be signifcantly easier to implement and infinitely more rewarding

[visual laurel]

just draw an eyepatch on your monitor

line it up just right

[tardy cedar]

i.e you can do X activity to get this new unlockable

OR you can do a run with Y heat

[amber canyon]

He also starts speaking with a pirate accent

[rapid zinc]

There's a Hades skin for Skelly so you can relieve some tension

[amber canyon]

But doesnt drop the "boyo"

[rapid zinc]

It is imperative he keep the boyo

[amber canyon]

"Walk the plank, boyo"

[tardy cedar]

Skelly with a British accent when

[digital crag]

Oh I thought u were gonna make a joke

[tardy cedar]

"Mind the gap, boyo"

[visual laurel]

I WAS GOING TO BUT THEN THEY MADE BETTER JOKES

[tardy cedar]

ven i understand that on a spiritual level

[rapid zinc]

"Your only family here is Death, Boyo. Death, and I"

[amber canyon]

Zag skin for skelly

He combines boyo and mate

[visual laurel]

(hades voice) boy...o

[amber canyon]

"Mayo"

[digital crag]

Boyte

[rapid zinc]

Zag's skin is grey, he'd be Poupon

[digital crag]

Honestly their goofy transatlantic accents grow on you after a while

[amber canyon]

Odd way of spelling "immideatly"

I wouldnt want Skelly any other way than inexplicably new yorkian

[digital crag]

Yeah except skelly who's just

[visual laurel]

...and if you come to the ama later today you can ask darren all about his inexplicable skelly accent,

[rapid zinc]

You show up and standing there is Persephone and she opens her mouth and says "What's up, Boyo"

Skelly is Persephone theory

[digital crag]

Somebody ask for me

[amber canyon]

I might

I also want to ask about balancing going forward

[lunar kiln]

well have you seen skelly and persephone in the same room

[amber canyon]

Because boy was Zeus murdered

[rapid zinc]

🤔

[amber canyon]

And uh, Im not sure overnerfing this harshly is good

[tardy cedar]

@rapid zinc that's dlc

[rapid zinc]

Asdkjhflkadjchyaiuenakvdczx

[honest coral]

Yeah I think with the introduction of the gun with its fire rate, static damage increases need to go

Apart from Ares since it's on a cooldown (in practise)

[hoary junco]

Its not that i dont like the pact, its that it goes from 0-100 real quick

maybe if it was re-scaled or i dunno

im just dumb player

https://img.purch.com/w/660/aHR0cDovL3d3dy5saXZlc2NpZW5jZS5jb20vaW1hZ2VzL2kvMDAwLzAxNi80MDEvb3JpZ2luYWwvY2hpbXAtdmlkZW8tZ2FtZS1zdGsuanBn

[wide wolf]

One thing I do appreciate is the nod to the fact that in some sects of mythology, Zag and Dionysus have the same parentage

And some theorize that Zagreus and Dionysus sort of became just Dionysus

[hoary junco]

that would be right, right? zag was eaten by the titans and his heart was placed (or zues just boned) selememe or semele or whatever her name was, the princess and the child that she had was dionysus

[rapid zinc]

Zag is Persephone confirmed

[late nacelle]

I bet Zag is a piece of Hades moustache that he gave life too

[runic terrace]

thats gona b orpheus' next hymn

[crude spade]

So it's confirmed Micheal is the luckiest dude around

Married to dusa

[bleak osprey]

technically also married to ti'zo

[crude spade]

Even better

[rapid zinc]

Also Aphrodite but she's not important

[amber canyon]

I mean thats kind of a red flag tbh

Given who Aphrodite is

[rapid zinc]

Yeah, she's Dusa

[crude spade]

Who cares dusa easily overrides that

[rapid zinc]

Aphrodite is Dusa confirmed

[crude spade]

Gasp

[digital crag]

ti'zo is aphrodite confirmed

[lunar kiln]

aphrodite: (chirping noises)

[blissful ermine]

Mind blown! I had no idea! That's so cool!

[open hound]

uhm aphrodite wall -scroll 128k coins. Guessing that items not ready yet or does it just get cheaper by befriending aphrodite more

[bleak osprey]

it should not be that much

do me a favour real quick: what's the number in the top left corner of your screen say?

[open hound]

version number or right for heat?

[bleak osprey]

version number

[open hound]

0.14081

[bleak osprey]

also, do you have the "convenience fee" condition active?

[open hound]

yes i converted price to what it would be outside of it for me its 256k

[bleak osprey]

regardless it shouldn't be that high

aphrodite wall scroll is supposed to cost 500 coins

[open hound]

well then thats a bug for sure then

[bleak osprey]

you're on the latest patch, so the convenience fee stacking should be fixed

hit f10 and report it as a bug, please!

[open hound]

only other thing i could think of is trial of the gods (2x boon rooms) and displeasing aphrodite wich i did but im guessing thats not got anything to do with it

But yeah sendt in a bug report

[bleak osprey]

nope

👍 cheers

[open hound]

hm it happpend on a fresh run aswell no heat 256k and i even had 500 gold for it should probably restart game to see if it fixes itself

yup booting up the game again reset it to normal price so i can purchase it nice

apparatly infernal gates reroll their reward aswell by going to main menu aswell. reported that aswell

[hoary junco]

ok i cracked it when zag gets out he finds tha his mother is dead so he destroys the world and ends up on a floating island but the old mans voice is still there but its more gruff and has a southen drawl, then out of nowhere a sword will fall from the sky covered in an eye circuitry and he has to use that sword to fight though a tornament and then he find out that nyx was mom all along

[onyx spoke]

can we make games randomly turning into bastion/transistor the next skyrim meme

[hoary junco]

is there a transistor mod for skyrim, i feel like there should be

[tired prawn]

I thought I had seen one, but I may be thinking of some other game?!

[onyx spoke]

There's a Red character preset someone made after some searching but I don't see any

[ornate shore]

Does anyone have screenshots of megagorgon ?

[honest coral]

@ornate shore I have a clip of me fighting it, https://youtu.be/wqsWT6qcwmY?t=464

Not really a clear screenshot though

[mystic tusk]

has anyone determined if there's a special interaction for beating meg without the mirror? I know people have completed it but don't recall anyone having an answer

she keeps bringing it up and it's all up in my craw, though

[lunar kiln]

doesnt seem to be one

[onyx spoke]

lord hades' codex entry makes me kinda sad
"not-so-secretly he desires that his son assisted him"

why does Skelly Leaving The Bath have a fig leaf
what are you not telling us, skelly

[visual laurel]

it's an artistic liberty

just makes the whole thing feel a little fancier, y'know

[lunar kiln]

it's a sfw game

[visual laurel]

sfw (skeleton for work)

[lunar kiln]

☝ this

[visual laurel]

is YOUR CHILD texting about HADES (game)?
brb - big rare boon
lol - lots of louts
smh - so many hydras
tbh - that boy hypnos
sfw - skeleton for work
stfu - sisyphus teaches friendship unconditionally
tfw - that freaky wretch
rofl - reaching olympus for laughs
idc - i die constantly
btw - boons too wild

[restive elk]

Pfffff

Lol if that doesn't deserve a pin I don't know what does

[visual laurel]

well now i can't pin my own content, that would just be the peak of hubris

[frozen jolt]

but i can

[visual laurel]

well as long as you agree uvu

[lunar kiln]

wrow

[rapid zinc]

I like that sfw still has "for work"

[visual laurel]

alternative candidate for stfu: spear throw feels underpowered

[rapid zinc]

Not anymore tho, the buff from 20 to 30 made it real good

[smoky tusk]

in what code? if you're taling datamining, I don't think we talk about that stuff even in this channel

the mods could probably tell us for sure, but for now I'll advise not discussing datamining too much

[tulip vault]

okay, fair enough

[smoky tusk]

the spoiler tag is welcome though

[frozen jolt]

yeah, please avoid talking about datamined stuff in here 🙏

[tulip vault]

will do, sorry about that

[bleak osprey]

i'm late to the party, but just to clarify, even if it's spoiler-tagged, anything datamined (ie: in the files but not accessible ingame) isn't permitted on the server to avoid ruining the surprise for others

[snow brook]

Does anyone know the max value for infernal gates? Is it 2 x depth, or up to about 50 heat?

I just peeped it, it is indeed 2xdepth. So theoretically the last room you would get it on should be 25, then shop/heart/boon/pom, then hydra, so 50 is PROBABLY max. May be 52 or 54, depending on how they count some things.

[bleak osprey]

i feel like i probably just didn't figure out what phrase to search for/where to look fjdhkgg i WAS trying to find it,,

[snow brook]

ShrinePointDoor 😃

[neat crow]

So is it just story/lore/biome/character stuff that's not permitted to be discussed via datamining, but mechanics are ok?

[bleak osprey]

mechanics are fine because those are in the game. it's not a spoiler to say, idk, what multiplier a boon gets when it's rare vs. epic, that kind of thing

it is a spoiler, and a pretty stinking massive one, to go digging in content that isn't actually in the game yet and show it to everybody

[neat crow]

Yeah, I figured that was the intent

[bleak osprey]

you can't really compare the two

plus there's the fact that just because it's in the game files doesn't mean it'll stay like that. things change and develop

[short pelican]

So what are the skulls from the Hydra for?

[bleak osprey]

that's heat! you use it to power up the pact of punishment's conditions, which make the game harder

[short pelican]

Oh no. It took my 23 attempts to just get that far. Guess it'll keep me busy until I can get further

[onyx spoke]

Meg: "Here's my whip"
shoots fireballs

[crude cipher]

theres a bit of dialogue where Zagreus and Dionysus conspire to prank Orpheus into thinking theyre the same person. i was watching a video on Dionysus's mythology and it turns out there's context to this. it's kind of difficult to explain but the widely-known-and-accepted version of Dionysus we know, Hellenistic Dionysus, was predated by the Orphic version of Dionysus, who was a cthonic god with themes of madness and rebirth. Orphic Dionysus was often equated with Zagreus, who we have little information on

so in a way, Zagreus is telling the truth

[neat crow]

Yup

[crude cipher]

Supergiant writers, you guys are amazing and the research paid off

[neat crow]

They acknowledged this in the latest Q&A 👍

[crude cipher]

i missed it, thats so cool though!

[neat crow]

https://discordapp.com/channels/456889434672201729/477164376496013323/546042764236816395

There's the A in question

[atomic forge]

I love Hades' reaction to hearing that song hehe

[ember goblet]

what is zag and megs relationship? And what does meg have against hypnos

[visual laurel]

Zag and Meg seem to have some romantic history, although nobody's said as much explicitly; it's implied Hades set the two of them up

I don't think Meg has anything specific against Hypnos - he's just. kind of. annoying.

also he's not very diligent about his work and seeing as Meg takes her own duties and responsibilities very seriously, it's not hard to see how that kind of attitude would rub her the wrong way

anyways, obviously Zag and Meg aren't currently together, though it's not super clear whether they broke up before Zag started his escape attempts, or as a result of them

[ember goblet]

interesting i just remember the comment that Meg was starting to sound like hypnos and then meg got irritated. it also seemed like there was a bit of flattery. thank you for clearing things up

[amber canyon]

Yeah Zag did say that, and he wasnt wrong

Guess when you interact with Hypnos as much as you do, his mannerisms rub off on you

[ember goblet]

i dont think our dad likes us very much

we have to talk to him 1000 times

before we get to know him more

😦

i have to die a thousand times XD

[hoary junco]

achiles x meg
zag x dusa
come on pay attention

[restive elk]

eeeeeeh

Achill is kindaaaaa

naaaaah

[hoary junco]

woops

got botted

[amber canyon]

Zag x Meg > Zag x Dusa

[snow brook]

Dusa x Meg?

[visual laurel]

and there's the gospel truth

[smoky tusk]

objective truth

[visual laurel]

i think the time at which zag and meg could have a positive romantic relationship has passed (though I do hope they're able to make up by the end and that the toxic environment in the house changes enough that they aren't forced to be at each others' throats)
and ofc achilles is

[snow brook]

I mean we have that intro cutscene with the word "Fury"

[visual laurel]

yeah, that's what i was referencing w/ "it's implied hades set them up"

but they do seem to have like...wrangled some kind of positive connection out of whatever forced relationship bs that was

[snow brook]

From what he says after, it kind of implies that they were obviously both kind of unhappy with the situation, but managed to as you said turn it into something more... real?

And now we have their current awkward way.

[visual laurel]

yeah, but unfortunately the way that the House is makes people take sides

and it's created a lot of bitterness for Meg

[snow brook]

Maybe Meg was so mean to Zag at the start of the files, before he tries to improve their relationships by talking and giving ambrosia, etc because she didn't want him to leave

[visual laurel]

understandably, since she suffers physically and mentally under the strain Zag puts on the House

she absolutely doesn't want him to leave! I think she wishes it could be simpler too but when given the choice between Zag and her duty, she chooses her duty

and gets repeatedly killed and berated by Hades for it

[snow brook]

Sometimes it really do be like that.

[visual laurel]

in her eyes, i'd imagine, she's just doing her job, and it's all Zag's fault for being selfish and childish and not just, you know, taking his share of the abuse and dealing with it like everybody else does

[bleak osprey]

i'm sad about one of the pre-fight talks i had with her in the update where she's like "hades is considering alternative options" or something like. "i'm getting replaced at work and it's your fault zag"

[snow brook]

Interesting perspective.

Hey, good news is if she's replaced then we won't have to fight her all the time.

Bad news is if she loves her job, that's kind of out the window.

[visual laurel]

yeah. for her it's like "if you'd just stop running, this wouldn't have to happen"

that's what i mean by "i'm not sure they can have a positive relationship anymore"

like it'd be nice if they could make up, but stuff like that leaves a mark

of course it's not actually zag's fault, it's hades', but trauma isn't rational

and none of them have the power to change hades' behavior anyways, so it falls on zag to be "responsible" for not making waves

[snow brook]

Maybe she also hopes that since he obviously will not change his mind, he will succeed, and there will be some change of some sort. Probably not, but it'll be interesting to see.

I really like how we essentially have a monthly updating story

[visual laurel]

gdfhgkf the spoiler chat turned into modspec
it looks like a dionysus boon in here

[bleak osprey]

i feel bad for not having a dionysus pun name 😔

[snow brook]

I feel bad for giving into the name puns.

I shoulda just kept my Greek status

[bleak osprey]

listen i spent an entire month as "the underworld revolving" and i should just accept that i'm never coming up with anything better than that

[runic terrace]

i like kam chaos too much to change

[snow brook]

What about Varatha, Eternal Sparrow

[bleak osprey]

but my icon is a sword :c

[visual laurel]

gdfjg this got a little off topic

[bleak osprey]

it did.

[snow brook]

Probably not the convo for spoiler chat

[runic terrace]

AWAY TO THE LOUNGE

[visual laurel]

💨

in short megdusa best ship

i'll flip a table if we can't find patroclus

[bleak osprey]

please!!!

[snow brook]

We already have.

[visual laurel]

AND i'm willing to put money on "greg isn't sure if he can fit romances into the game which is why he's been vague about it so far but in the end it's not gonna work out and zag won't be allowed to smooch anyone"

[snow brook]

💀

[visual laurel]

dino

[bleak osprey]

i want to find patroclus, and i want to find eurydice

[visual laurel]

🗡

[snow brook]

[runic terrace]

dino.

[snow brook]

Why do you think skelly is so quiet about his past.

And we know that Patroclus was portrayed as a bit of a counterpart to Achilles.

[bleak osprey]

you ever see a message that looked like someone swinging a bat at a hornet's nest

[snow brook]

Just like Achilles trains us to fight, and then we just beat up on skelly.

[runic terrace]

megdusa so good, like ........ dusa getting all blushy as meg complains about work, and feeling like...conflicted over zag's leaving even more as she sees what its doing to meg

[snow brook]

The Yin and Yang

[visual laurel]

well if you want to get technical, odysseus is much closer to being a foil in the literary sense,

[runic terrace]

and meg being cheered and calmed as this sneky ball of sunshine stutters out a helo!!

[bleak osprey]

megdusa is funny to me bc i'm pretty sure the furies were originally described as having snakes for hair

[visual laurel]

perfect

"i used to have snakes for hair like you. but then i took an arrow to th

[bleak osprey]

haircare routines are out, snakecare routines are IN

[snow brook]

Skelly is Odysseus 😮

[runic terrace]

hm! now were talking

[visual laurel]

you know what it's still an ice cold take but i'll accept it

[bleak osprey]

it's an improvement

[runic terrace]

its slightly warmer

[snow brook]

So if we are going on the assumption of all the Olympians being added, do you think there will be an interaction with Achilles where he talks about Apollo in a negative light.

[visual laurel]

oh you KNOW i was thinkin about that yesterday like
we gotta get apollo eventually, because we have artemis

and we've already had a bit of drama with aphrodite and achilles

and she only started the war

[snow brook]

She started it, and Apollo sealed Achilles' fate.

[visual laurel]

apollo was partly responsible for patroclus' death too, not just achilles'

[snow brook]

Exactly

So maybe even interaction with Skel- 🔫

[visual laurel]

fr tho i am pretty hype for that because like, you can't not address it

[bleak osprey]

dino i'm going to replace your bones with toothpicks

[honest coral]

👀

[snow brook]

Welp on that note time for bed.

[visual laurel]

if sgg is willing to acknowledge the more indirect role aphrodite played and have her rubbing that in achilles' face, you know there's GOT to be some set of interactions with apollo

maybe that's how zag actually finds out what happened

since achilles clearly hasn't talked about it in detail

god no wait actually i want that now

like "i hear you were trained by the famous achilles...has he by any chance told you how he ended up down there?"

[bleak osprey]

oof

[runic terrace]

OOF!!

[sick grove]

o o f

[visual laurel]

and that could be how zag hears about how patroclus died too

[potent cove]

@bleak osprey - #FindPatroclus #FindEurydice

[amber canyon]

Uh?

Oh

[visual laurel]

hahhhahaha

i'm sorry.

[amber canyon]

Right, contextbased detection is nto easy

I just want Apollo to be an arrogant, smug jerk

I guess that works

[stark tulip]

the news is out- does skelly is gay

[rapid zinc]

He do

[runic terrace]

:skellygaythink:

[neat crow]

Oh damn, just got an interaction with from arriving at her with low health. It references Hypnos and Meg, and Meg's reaction...

||https://imgur.com/a/pvpjsym||

[bleak osprey]

aw, i got a low health dialogue from her once but it didn't mention hypnos

[neat crow]

I think maybe you have to have the Hypnos-Meg interaction first?

[bleak osprey]

i have

eh, i'm sure i'll see it one of these times

[neat crow]

Yeah, I'm sure there are more than one, so just luck of the draw

[lunar kiln]

oh my god i got that interaction too

hang on

https://i.imgur.com/iTfZYmw.jpg

[tulip vault]

oh that's adorable and fantastic

[onyx spoke]

I just got the conversation between Achilles and Hades about Hades being mad that he helped zag

I'm willing to bet hades just decides to have achilles fill in for meg

[bleak osprey]

i've definitely pictured that before and it hurts to consider but is also upsettingly likely lmao

[lunar kiln]

also i was reading daedalus' codex entry and https://i.imgur.com/1elTpbm.jpg

daedalus for elysium confirmed,,

[runic terrace]

"th....thats MY hammer"

[zenith lichen]

THIEF

[tulip vault]

second weapon upgrade

[zenith lichen]

I knew my prophecy of 2 guns would come true

[frozen jolt]

meeting daedalus with an upgraded weapon and hes like haha I do that

[zenith lichen]

Heeey that me

[amber canyon]

Flurry Fire shouldve just given you a second gun to dual wield

[zenith lichen]

😄

[bleak osprey]

daedalus boon

[tulip vault]

beautiful

[zenith lichen]

AMazing

[amber canyon]

Now we just need a knife drop

So we can tape the knife to our gun and get the legendary knifegun

[tulip vault]

if i figure out how to actually mod the game that duct tape is definitely gonna be a thing

[rapid zinc]

I think you mean it looks really GOOD

[zenith lichen]

Kitchen Gun

Best gun

[tulip vault]

knifegun

a knife that shoots other knives

[zenith lichen]

Gunknife

It stabs... Bullets?

[tulip vault]

sure we'll go with that

[amber canyon]

Such a thing actually exists

[honest coral]

@tulip vault Modding is relatively easy

[tulip vault]

i know it is in concept i just havent gotten it to work yet

[honest coral]

No need for a modding API since the majority of data is stored in global tables

[tulip vault]

yeah

[honest coral]

Might work on a mod loader

[tulip vault]

my main issue is that there's a lot of code to look through and it's difficult to find where things are

[honest coral]

Majority of the time I've just done ctrl+shift+f in VSCode to search the entire project

And just put in relevant sounding stuff until I found stuff

[tulip vault]

yeah i did a lot of that

[bleak osprey]

same but in notepad++

[honest coral]

Next on my list of mods to make is a quick death mod (mostly for speedrunners)
But after that I might look into adding new boons / gods

[tulip vault]

my goal so far is to just edit the boons that are already in the game so i know how it all ticks before trying to add new stuff

[honest coral]

Here's a repo of the mods I've made so far if you want to try them out / look at them: https://github.com/SyncingShip/HadesMods

Done via patch files so you don't end up distributing supergiant's code

[bleak osprey]

i mean, personally i'd advise making mods for the game at this point because, like..... stuff is still being balanced and changed all the time, also it means that any feedback/bug reports you can give falls under the query of "are you playing the actual game or your own modded version"

[honest coral]

Well..... no, any feedback I would give would be about the actual game. Why would I give feedback about the game after changing it with mods?

Same goes for bug reports, if I start getting crashes once I start modding I'm not going to complain to supergiant about it

[bleak osprey]

yeah but that's you

now you're sharing things for other people to use

it's just an area i'd be careful with tbh

[honest coral]

I still don't understand what you're trying to say

[tulip vault]

i would imagine the same mentality ship has would go for anyone who's knowingly modifying the game's code

[honest coral]

Like if you install a mod which turns alduin into thomas the tank engine in skyrim, you're not going to start complaining to bethesda that skyrim isn't realistic based off that

[rapid zinc]

Complaining about realism isn't what Sparrow is talking about though. They're saying modding the game may have unintended side effects which may not be properly reportable which, due to the nature of Hades being Early Access and somewhat dependent on feedback, is not the best idea. As long as everyone who uses these mods understands this, then there isn't a problem, but spreading this out to people who may not is not a particularly cautious strategy

[bleak osprey]

thank you. yes, that's basically my point, i just wasn't sure how to phrase it

[honest coral]

Right, ok

Thanks for explaining it

[rapid zinc]

👍

[tulip vault]

that's fair

[honest coral]

I don't think it should be a massive problem but I'll add a disclaimer to the readme, and try to make sure people are aware about that

[gleaming torrent]

Ok so i've beat Meg without the mirror, no interaction.

[mystic tusk]

now, is that because she had another special interaction for you queued up? or was it clear that there was nothing for her to say?

also thank you for your service

[lunar kiln]

nah i tried as well she doesnt have any lines

maybe she's like "yeah i wont get back to that i hope he doesnt remember"

[mystic tusk]

I figured as much, but it's good to have confirmation of it

clearly the last thing to check is a no mirror 120 heat run

[round canyon]

Is that even possible?

[lunar kiln]

Well if youre willing to do a hitless/1 hit run

Probably 😂

[visual laurel]

a hitless/1 hit run where every enemy takes forever to kill ;^;

[round canyon]

It'd be a problem to find a masochist who's that good of a gamer

[candid bear]

I am 50% of that

But I won’t tell you which 50%

[shy socket]

Confirmed mascochist - games have a biological need to brag

[zenith lichen]

Ares is treating me well on my 120 heat runs

Haven't seen Athena or Artemis once though ?

Is this a coincidence or nah 🤔

Just Ares, Poseidon , Zeus and Aphrodite

Sometimes dio

[amber canyon]

Randomness be random

[zenith lichen]

How weird

[fast idol]

"It's me Dio!nysus"

[runic terrace]

dio: doesnt get picked in a trial room
dio: champagne for my real friends.....real pain for my sham friends

[digital crag]

aaaaa

[rapid zinc]

NICE

[digital crag]

i love his lines that are just like: aw... thought we were friends :( now i'm sad

while sending murder shades after you

[runic terrace]

aj: I Thought We Were Friends
dio (watching a pyre playthru on youtube while eating alcoholic ice cream) yeah this guy gets it

[digital crag]

hsgsaf that's a thing huh

oh wine ice cream IS a thing

[runic terrace]

YEAH...

[ember goblet]

omg i just beat the boss ! my old computer i was lagging. lol what a great game! tho i really do wonder why i only beat the head once

*medusa head

like why does it only come after maybe 50 rounds one medusa head

yo im kinda afraid on my desk now

[lunar kiln]

Next you fight the arms

Then the legs

[honest coral]

Congrats!

In answer to your question, the megagorgon mini boss is "optional" and depends on your room selection

Similarly to the death boat

But it also depends on RNG what room options you get, sometimes.

[wraith sphinx]

Is there anything else to do after getting the statues? I mean like other content i could have missed

[visual laurel]

Not really. I mean, if you've played through all the story content, that's what there is for now

[candid bear]

Max heat runs

[honest coral]

obligatory hades speedrunning plug

[candid bear]

Max heat speedrun when?

[ember goblet]

yo what statues!

[frozen jolt]

theres new lines and interactions added with every major patch, but if youve seen all of those and gotten all the statues, i guess youve seen everything for now?

have you beaten the last boss yet?

[ember goblet]

i think i have

[frozen jolt]

they should be in the training room where skelly is

[honest coral]

@candid bear I think dino was doing some 150 heat runs at some point before this patch

[frozen jolt]

curl is also doing max heat (180 now) but not speedruns lol

[honest coral]

Yeah

[candid bear]

I want to try them but I only have 64 heat

[honest coral]

Current speedrun uses 20 heat to max out Whipped Frenzy

Since it speeds up enemy spawn circles, and boss phases

[frozen jolt]

wow rlly

thats so neat hahaha

[candid bear]

That’s actually really cool

[honest coral]

(I discovered it and I'm proud )

[candid bear]

Go

[honest coral]

It makes the invuln periods on meg and hydra much shorter

[candid bear]

Gj*

[frozen jolt]

lol die%

[honest coral]

Also has the side effect of runs being.... a bit more lethal

Dino stole my Die% world record 😔

[ember goblet]

oooooohhhhh

[candid bear]

“What category do you run?” “Bouldy%”

[ember goblet]

i see

i missed that

i competely missed something that huge

oh more lordy

[candid bear]

So for speed running is there a category for every weapon

[honest coral]

Not at the moment, but so far every weapon but the shield has had a WR at one point

[candid bear]

I really want to get into it but I can only use shield

[frozen jolt]

wow, rail speedrun

[honest coral]

You can still run the game with shield 😃 Just to go "fast" with it it's likely you'd need to focus on cast builds

But then, even if shield isn't as "competitive", speedrunning is still fun

[candid bear]

Not much diversity in the gun speedrun strategy: its basically on rails

[honest coral]

Yeah the gun strat is dead after the nerf now

Back to bow, probably

[candid bear]

It was a pun

Adamant rail

On rails

[honest coral]

ruby on rails

[candid bear]

I think that shield has the dps output but only with sudden Rush

[honest coral]

I think athena attack is slightly stronger than it was last patch, 84% instead of 80% on epic?

Basically every weapon is viable with athena attack

Poseidon also has similar damage but the knockback can lose you a lot of time in tartarus

*asphodel

[candid bear]

Is hunters dash still optimal?

[honest coral]

Uhhhh it used to be amazing with the guaranteed crit

[candid bear]

Yea...

[honest coral]

I think the dash attack boon is probably a bit better but it depends on the weapon

[candid bear]

Hahaha

Oh thanks I’m excited to finally get involved in some sort of speedrunning community

[bleak osprey]

depends how much use you get out of dash attacks

bow? yes. other weapons? not really.

[honest coral]

Yeah, it definitely depends on the weapon. Gun's dash attack is pretty bad compared to bow

But then bow is I guess... the most "consistently" fast weapon? from a speedrunning standpoint

@candid bear The speedrunning discord is on the sidebar https://www.speedrun.com/Hades

I can post in #self-promotion instead if mods prefer

[hollow atlas]

I just beat the Hydra with 15 Heat and I thought... something was supposed to happen once I got back to the House of Hades but I didn't see anything out of the ordinary. What did I miss?

[bleak osprey]

go check the courtyard where you switch weapons

[hollow atlas]

Everything looked normal there. Talked to Skelley and he had nothing new to say

Do I need to have given him some amount of Ambrosia first?

[frozen jolt]

have you checked the covered statues?

[bleak osprey]

way to give it away alma

[ember goblet]

so i earned 15 skulls

and now it wont allow me to unveil the statues

what is up with that? do i have to beat the boss 3 times?

instead

[copper goblet]

@ember goblet You need to have spent 15 heat (skulls) on the pact of punishment to make your run more difficult and finish a run. You will see in the top right hand corner how much heat you have applied to the current run

[ember goblet]

um 16?

then

[bleak osprey]

you need to beat the hydra with the 15 heat applied to your run

[hollow atlas]

... statues where? (Don't worry about giving it away, it's fine)

[runic terrace]

in the back area there should be three cloth covered mystery objects!

[lunar kiln]

theyre surprise tools that will help you later

[hollow atlas]

Huh. I'm at work now... I guess I'll take a look when I get home.

[limpid copper]

Is the Artemis dash any good with the hammer upgrade for the sword that makes the dash attack multi-hit? I’m wondering if a crit build around that would be viable for anything

[hardy pond]

https://imgur.com/a/Owyjy0s
artemis with the sass

[zenith lichen]

That's Artemis

[hardy pond]

man i cant read

[zenith lichen]

😄

[hardy pond]

i dont even have the excuse of no morning coffee anymore 😂

[runic terrace]

its bc u live in the pyre commonwealth 😔 ajs proud

[visual cove]

So, anyone speedrunning a Codex% with Lord Hades? 😄

I still have 997 conversations to go

[frozen jolt]

lol, dying over and over again just to complete the codex?

i thought about it

but honestly i wouldnt want to skew my run stats with that

[tardy cedar]

codex completion > actually beating the game

[analog kettle]

[rapid zinc]

Max out dash as soon as possible in the mirror so you can get through the lobby faster

[hardy pond]

could probably get it down to >1 min/run if you maxed heat dmg honestly, though thats still more than 10 hours straight of dying

[rapid zinc]

But maxing heat means beating the hydra first

[hardy pond]

thats true

if you could do it in one or two runs you might gain enough time from it to be worth it

die twice as quickly

ish

[rapid zinc]

The fastest Hydra run I've ever seen was around 10 minutes. If you could somehow match that time, at 0 darkness, then yes, but otherwise it's way too much of an investment for not enough payoff.

[hardy pond]

idk man. if you can shave off even 10s off each death thats ~2.5 hours saved overall. 1000 deaths is a lot lol

[rapid zinc]

That's true

[honest coral]

[ornate siren]

I wonder if it could be faster sometimes to clear room 1 if its a slow death room and room 2 would be a faster death

[ember goblet]

does Megaera say anything if you defeat her without the mirror

?

[visual laurel]

Nope

She does have a line or two about the Pact though

[ember goblet]

aww i was hoping i could prove to her "im better than you"

[limpid copper]

Tbh it might be worth it to ask in the feedback to have a voice line added for if you beat her without the mirror

Like these people were insane enough to record voice lines specifically to explain why the rest of the game isn’t out yet, I think it’s perfectly likely we could get it added

[visual laurel]

@peak orchid i agree tbh, though i hold out some hope that Dusa isn't, like, medusa dusa and that her name is more just supposed to be a pun. we see a lot of gorgon heads in tartarus, after all

[lunar kiln]

What are those tasteful mcboonies in your pfp

[visual laurel]

i was wondering how long it would be before somebody mentioned that lmao

[peak orchid]

I thought that too, fingers crossed I guess. Thanks Dion

[visual laurel]

call me Ven ^^

But yeah fingers crossed

[lunar kiln]

I literally just opened discord on my phone and saw This

[visual laurel]

There is some later dialogue between Nyx and Dusa that implies Nyx is trying to keep Dusa out of the trouble typhoon that is Zag

And it also seems like Dusa isn't...particularly well acquainted with Zag?

She acts starstruck when you talk to her, more than anything

[lunar kiln]

"Girl you cant handle this man"

[visual laurel]

oh I read it as "you'll be better off staying away from him" and tbh i think the reasons for that are obvious, esp after this last update...||with the house clearly starting to split more and more down the middle; those who side with zag are much more likely to feel hades' wrath, and imo Nyx is trying to keep Dusa from getting dragged into that whole mess||

re: my profile pic, it was time for a change, i made a joke, and then the other mods peer pressured me into actually doing it 😂 😂

sparrow.

[bleak osprey]

:3c

[lyric pine]

Ok

The rail is now my favorite weapon

I feel like it's a bit broken you can use the special while reloading but hey I'm not gonna complain about it

[lunar kiln]

Flexibility for the win

[lyric pine]

Meg: you can't beat me without the mirror

Zag: this isn't a competition

Me: oh you bet it is

Me: empties my mirror and starts another run

[lunar kiln]

Meg after you beat her without the mirror: oh what was that? I said what? We Just Dont Know

Wheres your proof i said that

[lyric pine]

You jinxed me XD

Infinite ammo + Lvl 3 epic posidon pushback = bullying simulator tbh

[lyric pine]

Man its so hard being back to square one ability wise

Like, only one Dash? Do i look like a peasant to you?

[limpid copper]

Have fun in Asphodel with only one dash

[honest coral]

Haha, if you attack one of skelly's statues he comments on it

[bleak osprey]

yeah - he also used to do that if you attacked them before they were unveiled, hence why there was a patch to stop him spoiling the surprise :P

[nova turtle]

after reading that someone got challenged by meg to beat her without the mirror I started a run and beat all the way up to the hydra with no upgrades only to come back to meg saying I couldn't beat her without the mirror

[zealous flower]

put it in #hades-feedback

get meg to challenge you to a no mirror buff fight, then when you kill her with no mirror, she just swaps for a different fury

[nova turtle]

@zealous flower I don't have permission to send messages in feedback

I went to meg again with no mirror upgrades and than she commented how nyx made me weak cause I need the mirror

[visual laurel]

@nova turtle check the pinned post in feedback

[lyric pine]

I think if Hades ever came out on steam, then it would be funny if there were an achievement related to this

With a snarky take that kind of title of course

[ember goblet]

I like how we all just wish we could fight her with out the mirror and her to say something

[native marlin]

everyone wants to flex on meg lmfao

my one wish is that, since its supposed to be a fair fight, they should give her new move instead of her spawning more enemies

itd catch everyone off guard

(only if you have you remove your mirror upgrades ofc)

[sleek cape]

I have done like 6 no mirror runs

They're painful

Athena dash is your friend

[nova turtle]

honestly I haven't had much issue with no mirror runs because I've somehow gotten crazy lucky in half of my no mirror runs I've gotten a decent upgrde than like 4 POMs
though for some reason everytime I do a high heat run I get like 2 POMs the whole run

[limpid copper]

What about a mirror run with high heat

[sleek cape]

Uhh

No thanks

[wraith aspen]

In Hades' Nobody speech, he mentions that nobody escapes...including him saying that he tried. Then Zag responds by saying that he(Hades) failed, but he won't.

That's pretty serious since it means Hades tried to chase after Persephone just like what Zag is doing now.

[uncut sail]

Or that he wanted some junk food instead of poms

And tried to get out to get some pizzas

[digital crag]

Tried to eat his tables

[lyric pine]

@limpid copper I can get to the Hydra with an empty mirror and 30 heat

Cant win and ive only got that far once, but i can get there

[atomic forge]

|| Zag and Dionysus trolling Orpheus is the best thing ever. ||

[visual laurel]

@fleet wind I had very similar feedback shortly after the game came out, but actually I'm pretty sure Dusa is not supposed to be the Medusa, so much as her name is a cute pun on "maid dusa". there are also dialogues with Nyx later that would address your general concern about Dusa's "crush"

Asphodel is full of floating gorgon heads and seeing as Achilles, who writes the codex, would be aware of Medusa, it would be extremely weird for him not to be like "by the way this is Medusa, you know, That One"

[bleak osprey]

he does actually mention medusa, if not by name

the most infamous of gorgons

[visual laurel]

well there ya go

[fleet wind]

Yeah, there's a couple of origin stories for Medusa; the one I cited is one of the more influential ones, but there's also just a thing about three Gorgon sisters, who were basically snake-haired harpies

Regardless, even if we can find in-game justifications for the choices, there's going to be a nontrivial portion of people playing the game who are only familiar with the one story and who feel, defensibly I think, harmed by the representation

[visual laurel]

You're welcome to leave the feedback too, btw, but seeing as that story is kind of upsetting to just see out there, would you mind terribly putting it in spoiler tags?

[fleet wind]

Good call. How do I do that?

[visual laurel]

use double bars on either side of the text

[bleak osprey]

surround the parts you want to blank out with ||

[visual laurel]

||like this||

[fleet wind]

thanks

[visual laurel]

Personally I think that if Dusa isn't medusa, which i don't think she is, at the very least. a little bit more could be done early on to be like "yeah this isn't medusa"

[fleet wind]

agreed

[visual laurel]

because medusa does absolutely have a lot of mythological baggage regardless of what origin myth you ascribe to

and it can be kinda whiplash-y

[fleet wind]

I think it would also be great to see Meg standing up for Dusa at some point, regardless of how this particular tension is resolved, because Meg's already the kind of feminist killjoy I love (the "you're not better, you just have more help" callout was fantastic) and it's always good to see women supporting women

[visual laurel]

They have some fun dialogues!!

In the lounge, over drinks 😂

I'm excited to see more of them because I can't imagine there will only be one of those

[fleet wind]

yeah 😃

[tardy cedar]

lets get some comics exploring meg and dusa's friendship

@ sgg plz do

[visual laurel]

I know some people were upset with Nyx about the way she talked to Dusa but imo Nyx is looking out for her by trying to keep her out of (vague hand waving in zag's direction) all that mess

there's straight-up no reason that Dusa should get sucked into the family drama

[fleet wind]

There's some of that, but also some "know your place, peasant" which is less great

[visual laurel]

I guess I just interpreted it more charitably

[nova turtle]

Medusa? More like megdusa

[visual laurel]

eyyyyyyy

I could be misremembering the dialogue but it made sense to me in the context of "I have got to keep Dusa out of this" and also i was grateful that it seemed like SGG wasn't going to actually, pursue some kind of romance there, which had had me worried

because i was also very mmmmm about those power dynamics lol

[bleak osprey]

...Lastly, Dusa, you are not permitted to address the Prince, unless first spoken to. You are invisible to him. Now, are we understood?

Yes, Miss Nyx, we're understood, I mean... I understand. I, I'll be going, then.

[visual laurel]

oh thank you sparrow

[bleak osprey]

and this is why i'm the nerdy little scribe that sits next to hades' desk ;P

[visual laurel]

Especially considering with the last update how Hades literally shakes the house yelling at Hypnos, plus the implied punishments for Achilles and Meg for not doing their work the way Hades wants....

[tardy cedar]

ya'll crazy, nyx just wants to make sure zag doesn't fall in love with dusa and therefore jeopardize his mission

[bleak osprey]

yeah

and hades also calls nyx out on helping zag

[visual laurel]

like i'm. glad if dusa is as uninvolved with zag as possible because anyone who's near him is in danger

and while pseudo-family figures like nyx and achilles are obviously committed to helping zag whatever the cost for it, dusa's just

[tardy cedar]

i dunno about that

[visual laurel]

i mean she's just a maid

she doesn't deserve that

[tardy cedar]

sisyphus is doing better thanks to zag

[visual laurel]

sisyphus is already being punished eternally

so like

[bleak osprey]

mm

[visual laurel]

can't get much worse for him

[tardy cedar]

currently he isn't getting punished at all

he's just hanging w bouldy

[visual laurel]

he also doesn't have to live in the House

[tardy cedar]

orpheus is fine, too

[visual laurel]

orpheus was almost not fine lol

[tardy cedar]

fair but

[visual laurel]

Hades was threatening him too

[tardy cedar]

thanks to zag orpheus now sings

[visual laurel]

but when Zag's gone will he keep singing? if Zag gets out that is

[tardy cedar]

i think so

orpheus needed some new material

and zag will provide that

[fleet wind]

I appreciated all the tall tales

[visual laurel]

Orpheus also isn't directly helping Zag get out

Not the same way Nyx and Achilles are

[bleak osprey]

huh. proxy took its time there

[visual laurel]

it sure did

[fleet wind]

Oops, haha

[visual laurel]

what's worse is i didn't even notice gkjgff

[fleet wind]

Me neither

[visual laurel]

i'm a sham.

[tardy cedar]

uh hello

orpheus gave zag a keepsake?

[visual laurel]

That's true 🤔

[tardy cedar]

maybe lay off the wine

[visual laurel]

wonder if hades knows about that lol

dusa also gave zag a keepsake

[tardy cedar]

im sure hades knows everything

[visual laurel]

and meg did too

[fleet wind]

Anyway, Achille'a help is basically done, right? And that help is what he was "hired" by Hades to provide

[visual laurel]

even though it's ltierally meg's job to stop us

[tardy cedar]

i mean like

[visual laurel]

Achilles is here for moral support 😂

and to give us new weapons

[tardy cedar]

I've slowly been coming to the conclusion that

[bleak osprey]

and also to keep smuggling us weapons

[tardy cedar]

this is all an elaborate test by hades

[visual laurel]

somehow that's worse

lol

I did like the new dialogue about the pact

[tardy cedar]

why?

[visual laurel]

Cuz he's causing physical and emotional distress to an entire household for the purpose of....what?

[tardy cedar]

Preparing zag

[visual laurel]

mmm

no comment

[tardy cedar]

We know a war is happening

And chaos not-so-subtly hints the Olympians probably have ulterior motives

[visual laurel]

I thought it was fun that the Pact is apparently just like, Hell QA testing

[runic terrace]

i also am starting to suspect that, and ugh its gut twisting- that there really is no way to leave his hand, that even escape is following his directions

[tardy cedar]

But like

I even think the whole hypnos putting everyone to sleep was planned

[bleak osprey]

if zagreus escapes, in doing so he proves to others that it's possible

[tardy cedar]

Yeah it's certainly possible if you're the prince of the underworld and can't stay dead

Also if you have gods backing you up

[bleak osprey]

but it's possible

[tardy cedar]

I mean like

Persephone probably already did it?

[bleak osprey]

hades is all "NO ESCAPE" and everyone else is all "NO ESCAPE" and then zagreus over here like "actually yes escape"

[tardy cedar]

So sparrow do you think Persephone didn't reach the surface?

And every single god is lying to zag about that?

[bleak osprey]

i mean, i never said escaping was impossible

everyone else sure seems to think it is, but it's not like anybody aside from persephone has ever actually done it (orpheus doesn't count) or else they wouldn't be so pessimistic about zag's chances

[visual laurel]

imo it would be very on-brand supergiant if we never actually made it out

[tardy cedar]

But you said "if zagreus escapes, in doing so he proves to others that it's possible"

But persephone already did that

[bleak osprey]

how many people in the underworld know about persephone

[visual laurel]

extremely unclear

[tardy cedar]

Probably everyone tbqh it's a gossip hive

[bleak osprey]

with hades around?

[tardy cedar]

Also

If Persephone was married to Hades at one point

Which I think they were

She probably would have been in the House of Hades at some point, no?

[visual laurel]

She should have been at some point, yeah, but it's clearly not widespread enough gossip for, say, Achilles to know about it

[runic terrace]

my messages keep DISAPPEARING ok so to tldr it
-none of the boonies save chaos even know hes looking for persephone
-i think hades didnt come up w the escape idea but found a way to twist it to his advantage

tbh tbh gossip becomes nessesary w a hadeslike figure bc everything is complicated but idk if persephone is part of house gossip, hades prob has a firm SHUT UP policy

my messages keep DISAPPEARING ok so to tldr it
-none of the boonies save chaos even know hes looking for persephone
-i think hades didnt come up w the escape idea but found a way to twist it to his advantage

[tardy cedar]

I think Athena knows, no?

[bleak osprey]

nope

[tardy cedar]

because Nyx told her about his plight

[visual laurel]

Doesn't seem like it

Nyx told her zag wanted to get out

and presumably that Hades sucks

but Athena doesn't want Zag to meet Persephone, she wants Zag to help mend the family

[tardy cedar]

or uh

as a wartime tool

[bleak osprey]

in fact it's athena who says you're nyx's kid lmao

The one called Nyx... she is your mother, as I understand? We Olympians rarely consort with the chthonic gods. Though Nyx herself reached out to me about your plight, and I was spurred to act.

[tardy cedar]

oh, right

[visual laurel]

The Olympians are all implied by Chaos to have their own motives for wanting Zag up there

[tardy cedar]

but Hades being the mastermind behind all this fills in a lot of holes

[visual laurel]

It's the only third party view we have of the Olympians since nobody in the house talks about them much

[runic terrace]

the gossip network is prob wild tho like . if dusa gets yelled at by nyx for breaking a plate she gotta go to the wretched broker to find out that its bc nyx was mad at meg who was in a fight w hades who yelled at achilles who bumped into orpheus and stopped him midsong

[tardy cedar]

and hades just watches all of it like "alright"

"i've got paperwork to do"

[runic terrace]

hades isnt detatched lol

hes thw generator of all this

[tardy cedar]

Would you say it's all due to the power of his brain?

[visual laurel]

nah he's just an asshole

(checks proxy list) i can say that right

[bleak osprey]

god i wish i could crylaugh that.

[tardy cedar]

Nobody got my terrible joke, good

[visual laurel]

i'm sorry

[tardy cedar]

No it's totally fine

[visual laurel]

i'm running on 4 hours of sleep

[runic terrace]

the power of his brain lol its the power of his terribleness

[visual laurel]

also i drink "hades is awful" juice every time i play the game

[tardy cedar]

i think hades is a cool dude

[visual laurel]

some of those remembrances man

[tardy cedar]

he just doesn't want zag to leave

[visual laurel]

lmao

alright

[tardy cedar]

cause he misses persephone

[runic terrace]

yeah thats still nastey

[bleak osprey]

do i need to post it again

[tardy cedar]

because like some of his compliments actually seem genuine

[runic terrace]

oh im sure they are! hades excels at subtle emition

the moments that are.....less-than-terrible....between zag and hades slay me dead bc theres something about sharing a moment with someone you know youre whole life that you know has and will hurt you, but.......but. its subtle and well done and true to life BUT!!!! it doesnt make hades a nice man lol

[bleak osprey]

hades can be overworked and pining for his wife all he likes but that doesn't change the part where almost every remembrance shows him talking down to zagreus in various ways, and he goes out of his way to make zag's escape attempts harder, and he radiates unpleasant behaviour around himself like some sort of jerkbag miasma

[runic terrace]

high fuve sparrow

[bleak osprey]

🖐

[amber canyon]

Actually, Im not sure I agree on that one part

Does he go out of his way to make Zag's escape harder?

[bleak osprey]

yes

[amber canyon]

The pact is optional, the mirror untouched, the weapons and keepsakes left there

[bleak osprey]

survival rooms

not the heat gates, the timed rooms

[amber canyon]

Hell, the hardest enemies Zag faces are all not Hades's direct doing

[bleak osprey]

also, things hades calls zag, aside from "boy": weakling, oaf, witless, careless brat

[amber canyon]

I ... guess?

Im not sure I interpret survival rooms quite that way

[bleak osprey]

what is there to interpret, m'dude

[runic terrace]

hades goes WRETCHES OF THE UNDERWORLD, GET HIM, im p sure hes put a reward on his head

[bleak osprey]

hades: GET HIM
hades, when you win: what do you mean you survived

[amber canyon]

Right, the point Im making is

Is that really Hades manually telling them that?

Gods are gods, but I do not believe that omniscience is any of their realm

[runic terrace]

okay. who do you think the voice belongs to, then?

[amber canyon]

Way I interpret it is the same way as those little cutscenes at the start

[bleak osprey]

hades literally told meg "hey go stand here and keep my idiot kid from getting out of tartarus"

okay but those cutscenes are memories, hades is actually talking, there's no reason to interpret the voiceover there as being a Conveniently Recalled Memory

[amber canyon]

An automated response however is more plausible

Or it is a memory of the wretches

Its just more plausible to me than Hades himself talking to you from accross that distance because he certainly doesnt have the ability to do that

Which isnt even getting into his inability to see whats happening from that far

And as for Meg, while thats true, there is also that one line in the beginning where he talks about meg as the one who is supposed to force Zagreus to toughen up

Which given the area that follows her, isnt even neccessarily bad

Really, given how Hades himself says that even he hasnt gotten out, and the fact that Zag gets to keep everything that makes him stronger, Id say its wrong to say that he is trying to stop Zag

[visual laurel]

I got the impression the stuff at the start of runs were Zag reminding himself why he's running?

they're called "remembrances"

also i uh. definitely interpreted "toughen up" less charitably

more specifically "be a man" which...with its associated implications is. 😬

[amber canyon]

In that context Ive never heard it used with that implication

[visual laurel]

huh! well to each their own i guess, i doubt it'll be confirmed either way

[amber canyon]

Its pretty much always the standard "be strong, present etc. etc."

Especially in the context of greek myth