I think the aphrodite cast is way understatted for its damage
#h1-builds-and-combat
still vigil
fer me i look at rama and gilga and i sigh
maybe the delay reduction will help once it comes to switch?
maybe?
i love gilga but its hidden counterparts do the job much better
aphro cast is...interestin
still vigil
em=extreme measures
radiant quest
truee
still vigil
check #h1-high-heat-strategies pinned messages to find the acronyms
i think aphro has the 2nd highest base cast dmg but that range is...
river wing
i love gilga but its hidden counterparts do the job much better
hidden counterparts?
still vigil
rama, GY, arthur, luci, beo
still vigil
in my humble opinion, GY is def better
river wing
also it's weird to compare across weapons like this. haha
still vigil
eh i can see how
but i can draw comparisons
since they are after all the last weapons
river wing
gilga has really nice base damage, and has a global damage multiplier.
gy did get a recent buff, but it isn't enough to make it amazing imo.
still vigil
that global dmg multiplier aint all the great tbh
river wing
Hidden aspects are just meant to be different, i think, rather than being "good" cause it's the last weapon.
it's fine if it isn't that great i think, as long as it changes things up enough
balmy portal
yeah; I assumed they were all meant to be similar in strength
still vigil
50% increase on dmg received on a slow melee weapon aint nothing to shrug off, also unless you get a certain hammer it's honestly not worth using in chambers unless ya encounter a miniboss/boss
balmy portal
it's a shame certain ones are so lackluster
still vigil
especially when yer lookin at other melee weapons that can chunk without that huge risk or do it much safer
river wing
gy is 50% increase on everything too if you think about it. and it's slow too.
still vigil
also gilga has some serious end lag that can put you in very unfavorable situations should you choose to use maim
balmy portal
even more than that though, I just have trouble getting maim to trigger 😛
still vigil
so yer better off using the base or dash atk without touchin maim
balmy portal
too dash happy
river wing
dash cancel the end lag. o.o
still vigil
you...cant?
river wing
which end lag do you mean?
still vigil
the special on gilga period
the end lag cant be dash cancelled
you have quite a bit of hang time
river wing
hmm
balmy portal
can't say I've had a lot of problems
you do it once when it's clear
then they're marked for 4 seconds
still vigil
so bein in front of any enemy after applying a 50% dmg boost to them while also having other enemies around and dealin with animation lag aint cute
balmy portal
dash through them and pivot it
still vigil
that's what im saying tho
dashin after using special aint nearly as fluid as the other aspects
or fast
river wing
and you can choose when to apply it. just do it when you're confident not to get hit
unlike gy where it's a always-on 50% consequence on getting hit
still vigil
im not tryin to convince anyone not to use gilga, cause i love it
but im not gonna act like its not without its glaring flaws where others exceed doing the same thing
river wing
i know. i just think that. you aint giving it enough credit 😛
60 per swipe is kinda bonkers
gray shore
im not tryin to convince anyone not to use gilga, cause i love it
but im not gonna act like its not without its glaring flaws where others exceed doing the same thing
Pretty sure he's giving it enough credit
still vigil
60 per swipe is indeed much higher, but it's also much slower
which is not to its benefit when turnin up heat
river wing
also. it's kinda like shield in that it
is the only weapon that can walk around while attacking
still vigil
where GY or arthur can deal with that easier due possessing a strong special or a force shield on special respectively
river wing
only non-beo shield and gilga can do that afaik
still vigil
also gilga has very short dashes
river wing
that's why he has +2 dash by default though!
still vigil
can you definitely can be hit in between while using them
river wing
and the only weapon you can chain dodge by holding dodge
still vigil
while it does have those multiple dashes, yer not really covering much more ground using them vs a reg dash
so it becomes imperative that you use them sparingly/wisely cause you wont be able to das-atk out of a lot of things fast enough if yer not careful
thus it's riskier of using gilga over the aspects just on that front
sullen valley
Question: I have the Rocket for the Hestia Rail. 5-Spread Special or Ricochet Fire? There's also Seeking Fire but the only benefit I'd think is the 10% more damage
pliant anvil
ricochet fire
still vigil
5 spread still does nothin fer hestia
sullen valley
But is it worth applying to the Rocket?
still vigil
if yer usin hestia yer not focusin on special
rare tusk
Not gonna lie, rocket + cluster is probably still better than Hestia gimmick
sullen valley
That's what I'm thinking; shotgun rocket
river wing
oh spread special. i read that as spread fire for some reason
sullen valley
But hrm...I'm using Hestia, Special, and Cast all pretty well and dandy.
river wing
spread special does sound good.
still vigil
oh no cap it's good
it's just there's eris to do that
but much better
cause usin hestia yer tryin to blast somethin to high heaven with the atk
not the special
sullen valley
Welp, I'm a generalist. Besides Special is a bit faster
Issa quick attack. Eh, fair though, might use Ricochet
Does it actually affect Hestia shots?
still vigil
no
river wing
yes
river wing
i think i prefer the spread special though. burst damage is the name of the game :B
still vigil
then just use eris XD
river wing
o.o what
still vigil
that fits their style playin much better by miles
sullen valley
Buh I’m a Baptiste main, I can’t just DMR all the time
still vigil
hestia does burst but in a different way
river wing
that doesn't matter though. and hestia specials just fine.
still vigil
the damage on hestia can be quick and powerful
just in one shot rather a spread
while eris is gonna buff everything
which is why a general playstyle with the rail is best played with eris
sullen valley
I keep reloading twice thinking I shot is the thing
river wing
i don't see why eris is part of the topic though
still vigil
cause theyre using a cluster rocket special on an aspect that doesnt best focus on the special
sullen valley
That’s why they’re saying the Bomb hammer would be better for the Bomb aspect, and why they’re suggesting me choosing an Attack hammer for an Attack aspect
I like to take the biggest of damage ouo
still vigil
also like i said erid is better for that if you want all round damage
sullen valley
Iirc the other two hammers that weren’t Rocket didn’t affect Hestia either so this is what I’m doing rn
still vigil
justt fer future ref
sullen valley
Plus! They pair well together. Both are quick and bigger damage!
And true
Hrmph...
still vigil
like there's no question about that lol
sullen valley
So uh I have been sitting in Elysium bass and wind vibe for a good while now
P good vibe
Still have yet to decide myself.
Urrrrrgh
still vigil
go with whacha want owob
sullen valley
I might forget about Ricochet Fire. It’s a bit more situational, and would be effective if you were purposely aiming at a wall if it bounces off of walls or it requires a second target to do anything.
10% damage doesn’t seem like much to sneeze at, at least compared to the potential of Shotgun Rocket.
Hyuck it Shotgun Rocket
river wing
good choice
sullen valley
Oh I just shot it once and immediately Palpatine came back from the dead
Oh noooooooo shouild I take Epic Athena Attack or hold out longer for bigger boons
hnnnngscrew it getting Blinding Flash no one responded in time
river wing
ahha. just experiment 😛
balmy portal
that may explain some of my problems getting the dash special to land
sly arch
Man, hades' second phase is hardcore
balmy portal
I learned the hard way that those pots count as traps
sonic mural
How do i hit both theseus and minotaur with meg?
balmy portal
get them to stack
otherwise just get closest to the one you want to nuke and hope you get lucky
sonic mural
I learned the hard way that pots were traps with heat turned up and was wondering why i was getting chunked for 150 lol
If i go to middle of them in beginning will that work?
balmy portal
Meg targets the nearest to you and the direction the line goes is random
sonic mural
Ah ok th
river wing
it's the direction youre facing
in the start of the fight. you can always hit both if you face the right way
proud topaz
I use Than's for the Asterius fight anyway
split orbit
So what are the builds/boons to look for with aspect of zeus?
split orbit
Also whats its style?
untold iris
meg's line is perpendicular to the direction you're facing
and is centered on the closest enemy
balmy portal
I feel like it will hit twice if something is where two circles overlap
I accidentally smoked Theseus once that way
icy kernel
I FINALLY GOT THE SUPERSOAKER SEA STORM BUILD
IT'S SO GOOD
Only things it's missing are some more lightning boons
smoky horizon
been trying to think of other builds for chiron aspect -- i love aphro/arti and heart rend, but i wanted to do something interesting/new 
any suggestions?
spare scaffold
I'm surprised you haven't tried Dio focus yet
Ares/Dio towards Curse of Nausea?
Aphro/Dio to Low Tolerance too
smoky horizon
oooh, i haven't tried ares/dio
inland meadow
so what happens if you apply doom from multiple sources? which is the one that goes into effect the first applied or the highest damage?
pastel hamlet
aaaaahhh was so close to beating hades for the first time but i got cucked by the grabby pots and took like 50 damage
sullen valley
Unshakeable Mettle or Epic Deathless Stand?
turbid needle
Are you missing any DDs?
sullen valley
Just 1
turbid needle
Deathless Stand.
sullen valley
But I also got both back of my other DD's pretty quickly
Hrmph. It's also Styx, and I have the Sack.
Eh, it's also EM4 sooo
untold iris
well how much HP do you have and how many DDs?
I assume you're at 2/3 DDs
if you have 200/200 HP then across all your lives you have 400 hp
unshakeable mettle would add about 40 effective hp since its 10% damage resist
whereas the extra DD adds 100 effective hp
silk hearth
extra impervious is good too
spare scaffold
if you are confident in not losing your remaining DDs then I'd say you can get a lot of mileage from UM
oh EM4
untold iris
i mean unshakable mettle and DD both add effective hp
spare scaffold
I'd still go for the duo personally
untold iris
they dont do anything besides make you able to take more hits
but one adds more effective hp than the other one
(unless you're getting comboed for a ton of damage, in which case UM could help you dodge out, but I think that's not super common)
silk hearth
if u get hit by pots the duo boon will be good
cos u dont get stunned i think?
pot into laser is instant death but that hasnt happened to me before
balmy portal
there's some kind of multi-hit protection isn't there?
silk hearth
i wouldnt know
balmy portal
I've noticed I get an invuln sometimes when I'm not using an invuln item, after I lose a big chunk of health
I like to run the broken spear if I'm concerned about dying in a burst though...
that 1.5 second invuln is just massive forgiveness
void fjord
that invulnerability is there to make sure you dont die to bs cause you kept getting stun locked by enemies
silk hearth
have u tried acorn instead? i heard its better
balmy portal
different purpose
acorn is gone in an instant if you get caught by a laser, for instance
...granted it saved you a hundred damage 😛
silk hearth
thats true
void fjord
if your confident abt normal encounters then acorn is better imo
balmy portal
really depends on the types of hits you take
if you only take big single hits, acorn is way better
the invuln won't save you any
void fjord
or just dont get hit at all
balmy portal
well yeah 😛
silk hearth
cos its quite hard to get hit by multiple attacks, except for the laser
balmy portal
oh I'm great at it
silk hearth
i think hades has a few 2 hit attacks maybe
balmy portal
eat a shockwave, dodge late, eat the same shockwave
silk hearth
lol
balmy portal
walk into a pot, get hit by Hades
void fjord
2nd phase he has a 3strike combo
void fjord
well third one is a spin attack
untold iris
acorn is the best keepsake in the game
balmy portal
I'm just excellent at screwing up 😛
untold iris
especially at high heat, blocking any 5 attacks from the third and fourth bosses literally saves you multiple hp bars
silk hearth
i take acorn but i get hit by a few shockwaves or skulls so it feels like its wasted
balmy portal
well
silk hearth
same with 3rd boss where theseus machine gun can wipe ur acorn
untold iris
i mean shockwaves are like 40 damage with HL5 on, I think?
balmy portal
Hades you can lose your acorn real easy to his adds
untold iris
maybe more
balmy portal
they do 20 base
turbid needle
I once lost an entire Acorn to a Soul Catcher in EM4.
void fjord
well all you have to learn is to dash from what im hearing
untold iris
sometimes you get an acorn charge burned by something low damage
silk hearth
soul catcher is meant to do that tbh
untold iris
but even then, blocking like three or four hits is still so much
when HL5 is turned on
void fjord
EM4 with HS is scary
balmy portal
if the hitstun would leave you hit by some bad timing shockwave
void fjord
so scary that acorn is needed
balmy portal
the spear tip will protect you from that
balmy portal
I'm not even gonna try EM4 with HL5 yet
untold iris
I take HS sometimes on 32 heat because I "usually" dont run into traps
and I want to put a point there instead of in something else
untold iris
its a fairly bad point to take usually though
silk hearth
yee
balmy portal
I'd take traps except for pots
too scary
I go in for hugs and they hug back
...and they don't let go
untold iris
I find that I can usually deal with HS fine if I'm on a ranged aspect
void fjord
its ok at low heat, at high heat i usually look at smtg else
untold iris
HS with melee weapon on high heat is terrible
void fjord
well my fav weapon is the fists
untold iris
because you're so much more likely to wipe on lernie with HS on if your aspect is melee imo
also dodging pots vs hades is harder as melee
silk hearth
low heat is like 32 i guess?
untold iris
different people have different definitions
void fjord
low heat is below 20
void fjord
the very min ig
balmy portal
hmm
silk hearth
but i dont think taking HS below 40-45 is good
void fjord
generally ppl take 40+ as high heat
balmy portal
seems right
untold iris
I think most regular players would call 32 high heat, the players who are very experienced would usually call 40ish high heat, and the absolute top players are now gunning for 50 heat runs
silk hearth
yea 32 is high heat
untold iris
so what is considered high is dependent on your skill level
silk hearth
from #h1-high-heat-strategies at least
void fjord
well 50+ is very high
untold iris
32 is acceptable as the start of high heat I think
balmy portal
32 is the highest the game measures you using ala the gift
so yeah
I'd start high heat there as a definition
untold iris
its what most general players would consider high
balmy portal
...it's babby's first high heat
untold iris
and its hard but doable for "decent" players
void fjord
infact the record (in the current version) is 52 or 54
untold iris
while being fairly simple for great players
56
I think tailesque's rama record is 56 heat
that man is very good at hades the video game by supergiant games
void fjord
its 55 my b
void fjord
damn
untold iris
the high heat spreadsheet is sort of out of date because the people who maintain it arent super active atm
there's been a lot of 50+ heat runs that have been set in the past week or so that arent on the list
retrash got a 51 heat clear with zagreus sword...
void fjord
all i have ever done is 42
untold iris
so now technically zag sword is the best sword aspect in the game
despite it being widely considered to be one of the worst aspects
void fjord
i enjoy it excuse you
untold iris
also cursed slash is the best sword hammer for super high heat because it cleared 51 heat :^)
void fjord
its great with demeter
sly arch
Honestly the boons that cause an effect when you take damage seem pretty bad to me
Unless you’re doing some kinda crazy health regain build with the sword
frail schooner
there’s a duo boon that makes them go off
also demeter’s is really nice because it gives full chill stacks
river wing
there's also arthur, which you can just tank and unga bunga with for lower heats. even up to 20
get weak, maybe bracer, just face tank the boss and left click, lol
untold iris
revenge boons are fairly mediocre but they're usually better than nothing
and some boons are pretty close to nothing
so sometimes you take the revenge boon and are okay with it
fading pecan
Just want to make sure, the crit bonus on attack from Nemesis special also affects dash-strike, right?
fading pecan
Yeah it does seem like the safest bet, more iframes and more damage
untold iris
sometimes I even do one or two standing strikes!
you get i-frames on dash attack if you have divine dash
otherwise you need to empty dash to get i-frames
river wing
but atermis dash is too tempting :B
fading pecan
Oh okay, I was thinking of a divine dash run
untold iris
the important thing about dash attack is that it is relatively fast and puts you behind enemies, which is usually the safest spot to be
river wing
hermes extra dash and dash strike hammer, yummy
untold iris
sometimes you have to empty dash though if you dont have divine dash
really though divine dash is just way too good on melee aspects
fading pecan
and I typically go poseidon dash but I could always put poseidon on attack and Athena on dash, ooh
river wing
if you get heartbreak on your special, it makes for easy heart rend too
untold iris
its probably the worst boon you could get
the ideal nemesis build is heartbreak strike
fading pecan
But I love Sea Storm and slamming enemies into walls
untold iris
crit scales multiplicatively with your other damage boosts, so because the weapon has built in crit its more effective to take the big damage boost from aphrodite so that there is more there to multiply
fading pecan
Heartbreak strike is good for damage management, I imagine. Ooh, and Aphro/Ares Aphro/Dio would be fun with it
untold iris
also heart rend is trivially easy to abuse when your strike applies weak and also has 30% crit
fading pecan
Oh yeah, and Aphro/Artemis of course
untold iris
the typical tryhard nemesis build is starting with aphro attack and then looking for divine dash + building towards heart rend
if you find zeus instead of artemis you can build towards smoldering air instead
fading pecan
What’s heart rend do again?
untold iris
+150% crit damage
river wing
mm. while heartbreak strike is higher damage on average. I have more success with artimis. and putting heartbreak on special I think it's to do with the consistency of burst.
untold iris
so crits do 4.5x damage instead of 3x damage
rare kindle
Aphrodite ends up in my builds a lot, even when I’m not forcing her
river wing
it's possible the avg number of hits to kill a mob is lower with higher crit chance, but lower avg damage over time.
since it's more consistent, less spread
untold iris
aphro attack is significantly higher average dps than artemis
since the weapon has innate crit
rare kindle
I feel like Ares is hit and miss more often but Aphrodite is always good
untold iris
but you are welcome to experiment because pretty much every build is viable at low heat
in fact most builds are still viable at like 32 heat if you're skilled enough
fading pecan
He is, but I think if you get the duo boon where weakened enemies get doom repeatedly it could be a very fun time
river wing
yeap, i know. i just think the distribution makes arte nice too.
rare kindle
I still haven’t made Demeter and Dionysus work as my primary damage dealers
untold iris
I mean its a pretty non-controversial opinion that aphrodite is a better god than ares
rare kindle
Demeter probably partially because you unlock her late, Dionysus idk
river wing
demeter has too many dead draws 😐
fading pecan
I’m not suggesting that Ares is better than Aphro, I’m saying they’re great together
untold iris
a pretty reasonable tier list for gods is something like the following:
Athena
Artemis, Aphrodite, Zeus
Ares, Dionysus
Poseidon, Demeter
rare kindle
Yep, great for privileged status
untold iris
the first four gods are usually nice to have for your core build
candid fiber
I go for Ares alot, mainly cause he's my favorite god in general and I love that hes portrayed in a more positive way. Ie, im simpin
fading pecan
whoops mixed up the names
untold iris
whereas the other four can be good but require more to go right or are better as supplements for one of the first four
fading pecan
Ares is very hot also but that’s neither here nor there
untold iris
poseidon dash is like one of his best boons
fading pecan
And Poseidon dash has won me so many runs
untold iris
but it has the very big downside of locking you out of athena dash
candid fiber
I recently got a double boon with Ares and Athena. Which was fun. I don't do Poseidon often cause of knockback stuff.
untold iris
which is the best boon at high heat
rare kindle
Doesn’t matter if you kill enemies fast enough
river wing
and it's terribad on low range stuff
untold iris
athena dash is so important for melee aspects at high heat
and its still really nice for ranged aspects
though its not as pivotal
rare kindle
The witches circle damages me so much, if not losing me a death defiance
fading pecan
On my most recent run Athena surprised me in the third room of Tartarus with a heroic divine dash chef’s kiss
untold iris
the fact that athena dash gives protection while you're dash attacking is really, really important for most melee weapons
because dash attack is usually one of the better moves for melee aspects to deal damage with
fading pecan
I’m really glad you told me that about the dash-strike iframes with her, because believing I had iframes with other dashes would have probably lost me a few dds/runs in the future, depending on how long it would take me to realize how wrong I had been
river wing
you do have iframes
untold iris
basically, empty dash has i frames
river wing
but attacking out of the dash cancels them
untold iris
as soon as you press the attack button during a dash, you instantly lose your remaining i-frames
fading pecan
Yes, that’s what I meant
untold iris
but athena dash has deflect on it even when you're dash attacking
and the deflect will cancel out enemy attacks
fading pecan
Oh btw, is it still worth maxing Aspect of Nemesis after you’ve unlocked Arthur if you haven’t already?
untold iris
yes
nemesis is pretty good
nemesis, arthur, and poseidon are all different sword playstyles and all viable
river wing
both are enjoyable
untold iris
zag aspect is just... worse nemesis
rare kindle
I took one look at Arthur and decided the downside is that there is no downside
untold iris
arthur's main weakness is that its kind of slow
fading pecan
Arthur is so, so good but so very slow feeling, so it’s not my favourite
untold iris
which means you can't take DC with it and TD is rough to take too many points in
fading pecan
At higher heats I’m sure I’ll prefer it though
river wing
don't forget you can dash between arthur strikes
rare kindle
Guan Yu’s I still haven’t used yet because the max hp loss, man
untold iris
arthur is very strong at most heats though
river wing
Mmm
untold iris
guan yu is perfectly fine if you just play it like a bow
fading pecan
I’ll make sure to start dashing between Arthur strikes, that’s probably what I’m missing
river wing
gotta rng that charged skewer :B
untold iris
the hp loss means you can make less mistakes but you're also safer because you're not melee
so the two sort of offset
river wing
yea. manytimes as the enemy turn towards you to attack, you can dash out of the way before making your counter attack or to backstab
rare kindle
Arthur didn’t feel that slow to me but I’m still low heat
And it hits like a truck by default
river wing
yep. big truck
river wing
FO makes it feel slow. but you get used to it after abit
fading pecan
FO?
rare kindle
DC?
untold iris
and is probably the easiest sword aspect to hit 32 with
but there are some pacts that can lead to terrible results
river wing
all these acronyms are in the first pin of #h1-high-heat-strategies
untold iris
so the ceiling for arthur is probably lower than other weapons
DC = damage control
its the one that makes enemies ignore the first 1 or 2 hits you deal to them
rare kindle
I totally misread what making out the zag aspect did and thought it improved damage, not speed
untold iris
shielder benefit package enemies also give out blue hearts that do the same thing
untold iris
im not a big fan of cast builds
I have done poseidon 32 but I didnt enjoy it too much
river wing
can do hit and run with cast. which makes it easier
fading pecan
With Arthur you don’t cancel the third strike, right?
untold iris
try testing out arthur in the training room vs skelly
and practice doing dashes between the attacks
rare kindle
I ignore cast a lot but I’m trying to work on that
untold iris
you want to be able to stay mobile while working up to the third attack that does tons of damage
fading pecan
Good point with Skelly, I can definitely see how he gets more important at higher heats when you have less room for errors in your play
river wing
i've spend a silly amount of time hitting skelly lool
fading pecan
Fortunately he’s into it!
sly arch
I think im getting better, managed to not die instantly to ||the second phase of hades||
Slowy gonna get there
fading pecan
Nice! That’s such a good feeling
Oh, which has a higher ceiling, Aspect of Hades or Aspect of Guan Yu?-
untold iris
hades
part of it could be because tailesque is just really, really good
but he's done a lot to push hades spear
and nobody has really done anything comparable with guan yu
fading pecan
Yeah, I was thinking with how high Hades buffs get, it has huge potential if you can play it well
sly arch
I got destroyed by the laser, although i heard || You can just run up to and stay right next to him to make it easy||
untold iris
if you're new I would recommend just hiding behind one of the two pillars
sly arch
Probably also a good idea
untold iris
its much easier to do than trying to stand inside hades
fading pecan
Yeah I use pillars, I don’t even know how what you described would work
river wing
for the 3 lazer during first phase, it's aesier to go behind.
sly arch
It would probably also be a good idea to try and not be horrible in the first phase, or everything before that to be honest
untold iris
there's no hitbox in the center
so you can technically dodge the lasers by standing directly on top of hades
but its tricky to do if you're not used to it
river wing
esp since you can't really see anything
untold iris
for a newer player who is just looking to beat hades you should just go hide behind a pillar
fading pecan
Oh, yeah hiding inside him is a flex for sure
“Am I getting under your skin, father?”
untold iris
also with EM4 turned on hades gets a pulsing fire wave on top of himself when he does his laser attack
so the standing inside him tactic doesnt work
stark ore
Bigger brain move is to just slow-walk with the lasers
(Usually) works like a charm and also looks cool 
sly arch
Is it a good idea to fully clear out styx to get as large of an advantage as possible against hades?
silk hearth
if u can clear the tunnels without losing any hp
but usually its better not to cos u will definitely lose hp
sly arch
Dammit I was so close
fading pecan
blade dash doesn’t work with hunting blades, does it?
Alongside, I should say - I know that you can’t get hunting blades if you don’t have Ares’s cast
primal mural
wow hera bow with artemis attack and ares cast + duo boon is very good
sly arch
Artemis’ boon being good on a bow? Who woulda thought 
I actually haven’t used the bow much
fading pecan
Chiron bow is my favourite, and yeah Ares and Artemis with hunting blades are choice
waxen comet
Hunting Blades specifies Blade Rift Cast
Your other Blade Rift boons still apply to Rift Dash and Ares' Aid, though
fading pecan
Oh yeah, I did assume that’s what Robin meant though
fair plinth
heroic heartbreak flourish + explosive upper + demeter fists + epic abyssal flourish
I'm chunking 2.3k damage in one dash upper
its orgasmic
eternal iris
I had a bow run using artemis that just demolished hades
Weirdest run ever
I started with athena
fading pecan
Ooh their duo boon is so good
eternal iris
Switched to artemis cuz i got the most boons off her
Got faster attack and more dashes off hermes
fading pecan
Did you end up getting their duo boon? Sorry if I jumped ahead in the story or threw it off
turbid needle
Alright. Anyone has builds that work well on Achilles Spear ? Cast related or not
fair plinth
achilles spear works with almost any builds
its free damage
just weave the special into your attacks
river wing
all the cast that doesn't lodge into foes work esp well. hunting blades with infernal by far the easiest to pull off.
icewine/trippy works kinda wellish but a little effy, infernal has long damage burst down time before cast reappear. stygian kinda wants +cast.
demeter+arty works nice with stygian, but needs so many thing before it becomes good 😐
tbh it does kinda work with everything like what gger said.
even floodshot does alot of work. most enemies will die and drop the cast instantly with your +150% so you don't really need quick reload/exit wounds (except for on bosses).
flood shot also washes away DC and hits the enemy through it, so it's pretty amazing.
turbid needle
Thanks for your input, y’all
plucky harbor
I'm gonna train my tight deadline handling. Any tips? or the tips I need are pause is a thing and be fast?
river wing
take free rooms UwU
opal lodge
pause is a thing, take free rooms
river wing
get money early so you can purchase during mid shop
turbid needle
^
opal lodge
one thing i like to do is set up when each wave spawns
so when second wave spawns start at the beginning of the room again
river wing
use codex to pause when waiting for than to go away.
opal lodge
that will get your run DQed if you care about that
just FYI
not everyone cares about submitting but if you want to eventually submit runs codex tech is banned
river wing
oh what. interesting
turbid needle
It is yeah
opal lodge
but if you know it's the last enemy wave position yourself so you kill the last group of enemies by the door
saves a surprising amount of time
river wing
dash through the gate before reward appears in barge of death
turbid needle
Also know your aspect’s optimal build
This will help you out a LOT, since damage is and will always be good
Getting the most out of it will save you a chunk of time
As such, depending on your heat setup, hearts might not be as important as poms or money
plucky harbor
alright noting them down
cunning urchin
turbid needle
^ watch that too
cunning urchin
You'll want to optimize your Attack rotations with any aspect.
E.g., if you use Nemesis and your Dash-Strikes are on CD, what are you doing in that time to deal damage? If you use Guan Yu and your Special is on CD, what are you doing in that time to deal damage?
unborn pebble
For Speedruns, do you prefer Controller (for better control of dashing) or M&Kb (for better aim and a better timed/faster "dash away-attack behind" loop)?
cunning urchin
Most speedrunners use a pad.
river wing
pad is superior imo
unborn pebble
Better Dash-Control + auto-aim?
cunning urchin
I think regardless of any of that, people are just more comfortable playing on pad.
sullen valley
So- wait, EM4 Hades is able to be Charmed...just not during his beam attack, right?
sullen valley
Hm. Neat! Takes Unhealthy Fixation for Demeter Gauntlets
river wing
try using hestia. dashing perpendicularly to skelly while shooting, it's really easy to miss with m&kb 😐
opal lodge
there is an argument to be made that kbm is good on eris but gamepad is the overwhelming majority of speed/high heat players
turbid needle
Not if you wait a smidge as you finish the dash and aim quick
cunning urchin
It's very easy to miss moving targets with auto-aim on pad.
unborn pebble
I don't know how applicable it is, but I started out on the pad and decided to try swapping to mkb. I'm not at high heat yet but I already feel that my movement requires more planning (which I have yet to learn) since I can't get the precise angles but I am intrigued by the shots you can do with mouse-aiming.
cunning urchin
With Hestia.
opal lodge
it is very messy to deal with HS on KBM in my humble opinion
other than that i dont really care
unborn pebble
Leading shots perfectly, knowing the hitbox of a projectile, curving shots
unborn pebble
HS?
turbid needle
proceeds to run into urns constantly yeah kbm is fine
opal lodge
heightened security
opal lodge
proceeds to run into urns constantly yeah kbm is fine
@turbid needle LOL if this aint the truth
cunning urchin
MM Doomstone on KBM sounds kinda bad, but I haven't tried it lol.
unborn pebble
There might be a reason I always grab Athena Keepsake for mkb when I have HS.
turbid needle
It’s not that bad
opal lodge
it's fine doomstone is ez
cunning urchin
Although, my strat for Doomstone is Antos, anyway.
Summon > Dash to exit > pick up boon.
unborn pebble
I think Doomstone feels fine on mkb (without Antos), even with 2xForced Overtime. Though I have yet to try that with +100% enemy damage on, so...
turbid needle
With Meg I do summon -> position myself so that I can knock the doomstone after the summon into the edges -> finish the job after meg
As kbm
Itls still pretty quick
opal lodge
with meg i do summon --> panic as i try to strip dc hearts
but actually ive found i rarely summon doomstone now
maybe i should
unborn pebble
Wait, do the summoned minibosses also get the Super Armor when you fight EM4 Hades?
turbid needle
As in ? They are armored yes
unborn pebble
Because that might require me to revise estimates 
Not that. The elites that Hades summons at 66% (50%?) and 33% (20%?) health in Phase 1 have a form of armour with extra built in damage reduction.
Or do they just get a way higher armour value than their HP?
river wing
use controller mouse hybird. best of both worlds 👀
turbid needle
Armor is just way, WAY above their health ammount
cunning urchin
Guys, I've found the game is a lot easier if you add a 0 to all the damage modifiers in the .lua scripts.
turbid needle
Lmao
cunning urchin
You should try it, guys.
river wing
hades swipe damage 40 -> 400
unborn pebble
Easy, just add a 0 to all max health modifiers too!
turbid needle
Urns doing 1500 damage
unborn pebble
Well, pick-up health modifiers
turbid needle
Not even Sure Footing saves you
unborn pebble
Oh, wait, Hades modding is in Lua?
turbid needle
Yeah
cunning urchin
I also set my starting HP to 17,000 because he's Hades's son, so it's only fair.
unborn pebble
AWESOME! I actually started trying to learn Lua a few weeks ago since I was playing a lot of TWWH2.
cunning urchin
New Hades mirrorless strats: Hades has 50 HP.
unborn pebble
I wonder if one could limit it so that the game only offers 2 gods without keepsake forcing?
What am I saying, it's Lua scripts, it's possible if SG wants it to be.
turbid needle
Depends on how easy the seeding rules are to alter I guess
unborn pebble
Mhm. Depends on if the rules for what a seed gives is declared before seed generation or if they are interpreted after seed generation... On the other hand, should be possible either way.
unless it's like that infamous ghost-code in one of the doom games which seems to do nothing, nor is it called upon by any other function or variable, and actually shouldn't work but the removal of which breaks the game
turbid needle
It’s a bit of both
What you get seems to be determined before, for the most part, but as you do specific actions, the order in which you get them changes
That’s my understanding on that matter
sullen valley
that feel when you want to slap your desk so hard and so quickly to relieve your nerves after dying to 3rd Phase 1/4th HP remaining dad
proven osprey
you'll get over it eventually
sullen valley
I mean my nerves calmed down already I was so shaky you don't even understand
proven osprey
jovial harness
specifically fishing for legendary boons is more annoying than i expected
least i got demeter/ares duo checked off
proven osprey
I was told not to spread the legend of the secret GY build
Therefore I cannot answer your question
cunning urchin
Once you get Empty Inside, you'll no longer feel anything when you die in Hades.
hazy kiln
wow, I think GY is one of the most annoying, in my opinion it's clear, so I think it's hard to have any fun builds like that
proven osprey
I'm done with this channel
hazy kiln
hahahahahahahahahahaha
frank dew
id say shield takes that spot for me
hazy kiln
eris aspect with zeus atack and poseidon dash, is in my top 3 for sure
already tested this? @proven osprey
I dare say you will like it more than GY
proven osprey
Eris is boring as hell to me
hazy kiln
proven osprey
You can achieve decent results while playing like a bot
Sure I tested it and it got my best time
But this not what I call fun
hazy kiln
I don't play for results, I play for fun! at least Hades ...
cunning urchin
Eris is boring.
proven osprey
Well you deal a lot and shred rooms
You can ignore bosses because you just tear them apart
But you're not the one playing, Eris is
radiant quest
bro sometimes you just wanna spam and blow everything up
cunning urchin
Nerf to +15% maybe sounds reasonable.
proven osprey
Yeah I can see that
cunning urchin
15 is fine.
radiant quest
if im a stoned human i dont wanna have to dodge properly or think hahaha
hoary slate
I'd rather play Supersoaker. Which I didn't so far.
cunning urchin
Eris is absolutely broken right now.
It's 15% universal damage.
No other weapon gets universal damage bonus for free.
frank dew
well gilgamesh kinda does
cunning urchin
Far from it.
frank dew
i know the extra dmg taken etc but it still does get universal dmg
cunning urchin
Yes. Far from free and way less damage.
frank dew
it gets 50% with the hammer
i agree that eris is too strong but i feel like 15% is too low
proven osprey
So for fun builds, I would go for Hera I think. Triple Dio cast, Scintillating Feast. Nuclear power basically @hazy kiln
hazy kiln
on my first day playing hades, I kept killing myself until I gave 32 heats, afterwards I only managed to look for builds to just go out and destroy everything and everyone hahahaha
cunning urchin
And you need to apply the debuff first on each enemy.
frank dew
yeah thats a valid point and ofc its melee
hazy kiln
hera is bow, right?
proven osprey
Yes sir
frank dew
like i said its not completely free and not as good as eris for sure but i still feel like maybe about 30% would work fine
proven osprey
You don't need to max it
hazy kiln
i gonna try it
frank dew
chaos never gives me what i want 😦
cunning urchin
Applying Maim is also so slow that you're better off just ignoring it on most enemies.
proven osprey
But have ever thought about what master chaos wanted ?
frank dew
no evrything is about me
hazy kiln
does anyone know any with the lucifer aspect?
I think it's the only one I've never used kkkk
frank dew
i mean it works with the same general stuff that the other rails
hoary slate
Poseidon Attack though
cunning urchin
Divine Flourish is supposed to be great on it.
Lightning Strike is tried and true.
hazy kiln
I thought about Poseidon too, but Zeus seems fun to me
rotund gust
what is a good strategy for the zagreus or achilles aspect of the spear I don't play with the spear much
proven osprey
Poseidon is a meme btw
hoary slate
rotund gust
so maybe a demeter cast build?
rare kayak
ive done dem cast yes
can get fun but its very slow to start
achilles can also be played a little like hestia
for the big brst damage
zag’s bonus is kinda worthless, i prefer hades instead if i want to play an attack build
but hades is a bit harder to play because spin is awkward to work around
very fun to see the big radius tho
rotund gust
zag's bonus isn't attack though, it's a special bonus
turbid needle
Even for the special it's kinda whatever
Since the damage's kinda low unless you get hammers, and even then
rare kayak
yeah thats what i mean
the spear base special is uh
not good
i mean its good with exploding launcher but like
everythings good with exploding launcher
also even on special i rather play hades or guan yu
hades has bigger booster on spin and guan yu base special is already pretty dang good
river wing
it's a % boost too not a base one. very sad
waxen comet
Yeah
rare kayak
its probably the worst zagspect in terms of bonus
river wing
and the increased range makes the extra speed kinda even out
waxen comet
Why would you boost it by 25% when you can boost it by six times that
rare kayak
well you could make the argument that the six times is conditional while zagspect is on all the time
but in practice its not too hard
to apply punishing sweep
waxen comet
Punishing Sweep is hardly a condition because it actually works well as a charge attack
rare kayak
too bad it doesnt boost itself
waxen comet
Instead of feeling almost entirely worthless
rare kayak
):
sgg feex pls
still, the best feeling in the game is having massive spin hades spear and walking into a room of cloner skulls
proven osprey
Why would you boost it by 25% when you can boost it by six times that
@waxen comet because you can get flurry jab and let that Zeus party get started
rare kayak
we're talkin about special tho
waxen comet
I'm talking about the Special
proven osprey
fk
rare kayak
lmfao
proven osprey
🔫
rare kayak
hi im jared 19
waxen comet
Chain Skewer on Aspect of Hades is pretty funny
proven osprey
@cunning urchin hey, what is that reaction supposed to mean ??
cunning urchin
rare kayak
called out
cunning urchin
O~hohohohoho!
rare kayak
hmm
havent had a good flurry__ run recently
maybe i should go for the meme flurryhoarding
whatre y'alls opinions on pulverising blow
i think its pretty good
its like a weaker serrated edge but you also dont have your dash screwed
waxen comet
Which one was that again
waxen comet
Depends how much you value the knockback
proven osprey
wait this is not spear anymore
proven osprey
It's excellent on Zeus. I use it with drunken strike
rare kayak
really? i kinda like it on zeus aspect because it doesnt knock enemies out of the special aura
waxen comet
I push adds into the shield often
rare kayak
ah yeah i guess depends on your zeus aspect playstyle
cunning urchin
It's okay. I find shield hammers that aren't Charged Flight on Beowulf very unimpressive.
Explosive Return is nice, too.
rare kayak
what about power shot on beowulf
cunning urchin
Unimpressive.
river wing
i don't like powershot in general. aint gonna hve the time to do it. and you want to aim your cast too
rare kayak
its nice for me to be able to zero brain the shield lads in elysium at least
river wing
wait powershot?
river wing
i like it. it's bugged or something apprently tho
rare kayak
hows it bugged
river wing
havnt really encountered
waxen comet
Charged shot can be good if you prefer playing at a distance
river wing
idk i heard it make your cast disappear sometimes?
river wing
not too sure
rare kayak
shield hammers are for sure pretty underwhelming though
river wing
but i do like it
rare kayak
a lot of them arent really gameplay changes
just more numbers
unlike some of the other hammers
i think the rail is probably my favourite set of hammers from a gameplay perspective?
its got a lot of interesting hammers
river wing
it has so many unique compared to other hiddens
other hidden feels like they've a unique hammer cause there has to be one
waxen comet
Just Daedalus upgrades
waxen comet
What does Rama have for its Daedalus upgrade, actually?
river wing
yep
river wing
cause you to pulse or something i cant rmb
rare kayak
its pretty bad
waxen comet
I've actually been getting used to Rama
rare kayak
i have yet to test if it works with sea storm though
but i doubt thatll change my opinion
waxen comet
Drunken Flourish Rama can be pretty funny.
brave current
Question.Anyone knows any cool build for Aspect of Arthur? I always end up building crit.Its really cool and enjoyable but i wanna gry smth new
calm bluff
Rama looks very nice for combo potential
Also, how does DR stack? It feels multiplactively since I was still taking 40 damage in my excalibur zone with the heroic demeter boon to give me attack and damage reduction along with aphrodite's curse
river wing
yep multiplicatively
calm bluff
Makes sense.
calm bluff
That was a base spin from dad and no boiling blood iirc.
river wing
o. assuming you had HL on
calm bluff
Nope
river wing
!! 🤔
I don't think there's too many ways to build arthur, it's almost always aphro/arte strike.
and everything else.. doesn't matter too much?
calm bluff
Yeah, most of the other stuff requires you having a fast attack speed to make use of it
Although some of its moves do have a large AoE, so athena wouldn't be too bad as an attack.
cunning urchin
Divine Strike is also common and strong.
calm bluff
Having a call for the privileged status proc would also help, demeter or diyo. But if not, then the other upgrade sinfe you'll be getting mostly artemis
waxen comet
Artemis with Family Favourite, Aphrodite with High Privilege, bout it
sterile wagon
what are some good boons for nemesis sword other than artemis
waxen comet
Aphrodite, maybe Poseidon?
river wing
athena as usual
waxen comet
Athena too aye
sterile wagon
cheers
waxen comet
I'd recommend Aphro or Poseidon for strike and special; Aphrodite's got straight damage, and Poseidon having the second best with the option to improve it against bosses and wall-slam trash to death. And you can get Rupture for High Privilege
marsh veldt
What's a good god combo for shield zeus aspect?
river wing
zues on zues is the obvious one
there's also ME, which works well on pretty much everything but esp so on zeus
marsh veldt
How bout hammers? Is the 80% for 2 atk on special hit good?
keen hazel
It's not an amazing boon by any stretch but that one is acceptable on zeus
marsh veldt
If going for ME, athena on atk, ares on special right?
keen hazel
yep
athena dash is the ideal activator but you have to have it on attack to even get the boon
marsh veldt
Do i still have to apply doom in the first place to activate ME?
keen hazel
yeah, it basically just ends the timer immediately
unkempt pagoda
yes
keen hazel
constant cycle of apply doom/activate/apply/activate
unkempt pagoda
you need doom for your divine to activate
marsh veldt
Thanks everyone
proven osprey
Imagine being able to buy that sweet heart
when you do the maths quickly and think you can afford both
clever igloo
I screw up the math all the time when I have increased prices on
clever igloo
The default prices are in my muscle memory
proven osprey
1 gold
clever igloo
I bet he didn’t like that
proven osprey
maybe
cunning urchin
I think he heard you and didn't care.
You should try getting membership card.
You'd be able to afford both.
cunning urchin
It's 35 Heat. Shouldn't be too hard since it's low heat. 
cunning urchin
proven osprey
52 
proven osprey
I wonder if I'll achieve such feat
cunning urchin
No.
proven osprey
Hey, that's not nice.
Oh I see, you're tricking me into attempting 52 to prove you wrong
And so awakening my true self
cunning urchin
You can't prove me wrong. m always right. 👸🏽
proven osprey
we shall see, in one year or so
fair plinth
everytime I accidentally skip an unbroken golden pot
it always bites me in the ass sometime down the road
Shopping at Styx R' Us
136 gold
Athena boon silently judging my poor ass
proven osprey
take another tunnel 
languid dagger
guys, does Aspect of Achilles post rush buff affect casts like Demeter's Crystals and Ares Blade Rifts?
want to try weird caster with the spear
clever igloo
Yes
Hunting blades on achilles is probably one of the stronger builds in the game
The crystals are fun with the Artemis duo, but imo hunting blades is better
unkempt pagoda
achilles buffs all casts
clever igloo
The casts that don’t get lodged in enemies are especially good tho imo
Ie demeter, ares, and I guess dio but his cast is finnicky
sweet fossil
So, to get duo boon I need 1 each from 2 gods? Or i need all required components?
Example Blizzard shot
Demeter: Frost Strike, Frost Flourish, Mistral Dash, or Snow Burst
Poseidon: Flood Shot
i just need flood and frost flourish?
or everything?
clever igloo
The codex will say specifically what you need
river wing
just one for each component
clever igloo
It should say “one of” before the lists
river wing
if more than one is needed in a component it'll state "at least 2" or something. don't rmb the exact words
like demeter's legendary
clever igloo
Yeah
sweet fossil
does more increase chance?
sweet fossil
okay thanks ❤️
clever igloo
However having your attack, special, dash, cast and call boons filled up helps because those get priority
balmy portal
the "two of the following" isn't always accurate
I've received offerings when I had only one
languid dagger
so tried Demeter + Artemis caster build with Aspect of Achilleus
kind of strong, but awkward to play
ofc greedy Hermes didn't give me his legendary even as a third boon and for 500 gold
gray shore
high heat starts at 50 right ?
@proven osprey I thought it started at 58
opal lodge
poseidon and zeus are usually popular with achilles just because theyre multi target
cunning urchin
Hunting Blades is also very popular.
proven osprey
@proven osprey I thought it started at 58
@gray shore Nah, 58 is where the risk of severe trauma is inevitable
void fjord
if it was 58, then PTSD would be very frequent among all high heat runners
but 40+ is usually considered high heat
proven osprey
45 for Eris
brisk island
Extreme Measures level 4 here
Kinda brutal & i'm definitely like it. I'm succeed already, but can't stop enabling it anymore 😂
clever laurel
my favorite stuff is lucifer aspect of exagryph with zeus attack or artemis crazy crit
cunning urchin
Everyone who did 40+ before Bruiser was nerfed has PTSD now. 
unkempt scroll
Well, now I've managed to beat 32. Never have to deal with that BS anymore
Got a few achievements to go after, though
cunning urchin
innocent 40+ player: I have the perfectest build. I can do this.
Bruiser Snakestones: I'm about to end this woman's whole career.
unkempt scroll
What build?
cunning urchin
Any build. Didn't really matter much in Nighty Night. Bruiser Snakestones just ended most runs right there lol.
If you made it out of the chamber alive, you still lost to Tight Deadline because it took way too long.
clever laurel
3 of those wins are achiles spear plus blade rift
cunning urchin
They're not that much of a problem now.
They had waaaay too much armor with Bruiser in Nighty Night.
cunning urchin
No. That's a perk from Benefits Package.
cunning urchin
clever laurel
what.
cunning urchin
They put a cap on how much armor enemies can get from that since.
torpid abyss
So what do ya think is the best attack hammer for chiron (in the scenario you must take one)
cunning urchin
Twin Shot.
clever laurel
what is that thing?
torpid abyss
That one wasn't available
torpid abyss
Neither lol
It was chain shot
Which is pretty bad on chiron
So i got flurry shot
So at least i have a quick full range attack
clever laurel
that pic u sent
cunning urchin
Fated List of Minor Prophecies.
cunning urchin
You'll have to do a run with Benefits Package on.
clever laurel
oh
clever igloo
Pretty much any hammer that doesn’t mess with your range or targeting is fine imo
Sniper shot, flurry shot, even point blank shot on a horrendous roll
Obviously +arrows and +damage on consecutive hits for special are way better than any of these tho
torpid abyss
I found that flurry shot with athena attack is pretty damn good
clever igloo
I like it with poseidon attack too
Actually I just like it generally lol
One of my earliest clears was chiron with poseidon attack flurry shot and sea storm, plus demeter special with arctic blast
I have fond memories of that run lol
primal hazel
clever igloo
Yeah
clever igloo
Im almost never sad to see him because at minimum I can take his call
proven osprey
Except on beowulf and gy attack
@primal hazel test it