it's not obvious
#h1-builds-and-combat
olive spruce
calm bluff
i thought it was just putting points into aspects
olive spruce
no, it's non-zagreus aspects
calm bluff
whelp that solves my problem now hopefully xD
warm snow
for the Stygius, make use of Dash-Strike
I find that it's very effective and hit enemies fast
get more dashes from Hermes if you can
avoid standing still
never stop moving!
so keep dash-striking and moving
calm bluff
...yep
as soon as i came back from a death i immediately got the legendary xD
thanks mate
cosmic hornet
what would be the main build for talos fist?
artemis attack or merciful end?
olive spruce
I would assume lightning fists
tawny meadow
Zeus attack or merciful end is what I've been seeing out of the guys practicing for hermes cup 3
calm bluff
Do other legendary aspects need me to spend titan blood in the not zagerus aspects to unlock them?
olive spruce
IIRC no
you just need 5 blood invested
I maxed out zagreus aspect for the fists and managed to unlock the legendary aspect
calm bluff
oh good don't have to worry about that then
olive spruce
if you've maxed out the zagreus aspects you should get the others unlocked soon
calm bluff
ye
tawny meadow
Keeping in mind that spear has to be unlocked first then there's no order just RNGesus for the convo
cosmic hornet
let's say i want to go merciful end, does the pull part of the special apply doom/deflect or does it have a weird property
frank dew
that moment when you get splitting bolt in tartarus
tawny meadow
splitting bolt is good
dusty ridge
I've unlocked all companions, I'm using ||bouldy|| for farming purpose but which of those is supposedly the best?
mellow quest
shady is really good in general but falls off with lasting consequences and convenience fee. battie takes some practice but is the go to pick for a lot of reasons, mainly good damage, speed, accuracy and control over how the line is drawn. antos is really strong too, just have to be mindful of the timing/what it could hit
dusty ridge
got it, thank you
tawny meadow
Shady is than right?
sharp mortar
what're the mechanics of the battie line?
tawny meadow
perpendicular to where you're facing
calm bluff
I like bouldy for that combat heal tbh
dusty ridge
But lasting consequences would reduce that heal
rotund gust
Any good builds I could try out, I am struggling beating the final boss
silk hearth
what aspect r u using
silk hearth
oh idk about lucifer but i use chiron quite a bit
artemis special + aphro attack and aphro/artemis duo boon
think thats the strongest build for chiron
silk hearth
it works too
rotund gust
K
silk hearth
u still use aphro attack and u go for the aphro/dionysus duo boon instead
rotund gust
K, Thanks for the help : D
silk hearth
yw
surreal bolt
hey, quick question for someone, is there always a set amount of rooms per floor?
unkempt pagoda
almost always, yes, except for styx of course
the only way for the chamber count to be offset is if you take a chaos/infernal gate right before a pre-boss room (bc then it'll always put you in that room, instead of skipping it as usual)
surreal bolt
So two followup questions then, what is the set number? and do chaos/infernal rooms count as a room? or are they effectively an 'extra room'?
unkempt pagoda
i can't remember off the top of my head the first but; chaos/infernal gates always take up a room, except in the case i mentioned above
cunning urchin
14 > 24 > 36 are the boss chambers.
surreal bolt
Thank you both, but that hurts, I always thought I was getting an extra room when I went to chaos/erebus
cunning urchin
If you open the boon menu, it'll show you the current chamber count.
surreal bolt
Wow, thank you, thats really nice to know!
cunning urchin
13 > 23 > 35 are shops.
kindred trout
If you go Dio special for Chiron, I think Ares attack is a solid alternative to Aphro. Also has a good duo.
cunning urchin
Hmm. Curse of Agony is just way worse than Heartbreak Strike or Deadly Strike if you get Twin Shot.
unkempt pagoda
if you're really itching for the ares/dio duo, grab him on cast instead
but not over hb strike or deadly strike imo
river wing
speak of the devil, i just did a ares/dio + aphro/dio chiron run.
i got ares attack because that's how the gods gave me the boons.
but honestly would much prefer aphro
it's just more solid.
and you get the weak application easily too
cunning urchin
No one was speaking of Lucifer Aspect, though. 
unkempt pagoda
see the proper build is deadly strike/drunken flourish/slicing shot, so you can get splitting headache AND hunting blades
now you don't have to worry about playing the game!
cunning urchin
Yeah.
river wing
aphro attack also allows for easy PS
gray shore
now you don't have to worry about playing the game!
@unkempt pagoda I can't tell what is serious advice and what's
xD
unkempt pagoda
it's serious advice with a dusa tone 😛
my best dio eris run was that with aphro dash, i got all three hangover duos with hunting blades on top
well, with artemis and dio switched, of course
surreal bolt
Whats better, chaos or eurydice?
clear dome
surreal bolt
and what do you guys think best option from eurydice is?
proven osprey
it depends
If you have you have a small amount of boons and they're core you can go for rarity
Usually I go for refreshing nectar tho
keen hazel
yeah its totally dependent on your personal situation. all are potentially the best depending
surreal bolt
thats good that they are all viable, went for rarity, missed core lmao
proven osprey
yeah it's usually what happens
turbid needle
If I already have say, my attack/special and a few passives/cast/call/dash, I go for the level up
If I can somewhat guarantee I'll hit something I want, I go with the rarity up
Otherwise, Nectar's my pick, which is also good if I'm looking for a specific Duo/Legendary
icy kernel
I need a good Shield build. Aspect doesn't matter; I just don't particularly like the shield and want something to make playing with it fun
primal hazel
I can just dm you builds for every aspect
icy kernel
this dude is helpful
primal hazel
I have to balance my toxicity out with something
river wing
i used bouldy the most. been running with dusa recently
cause im really bad at FO2 Em3. 😐
dusa helps quite abit
unborn pebble
Ok, I think I might have a decent build going, and I'm only at 4 heat with +30%-ish dodge and move speed on Zag Fists and rush delivery. Do I buy what I can in the shop and dive at Hades now?
primal hazel
Batty
silk hearth
if u can fight hades do it
unborn pebble
I'm at 17:30, which would be a new record by large margins.
primal hazel
Bouldy is nice
Dusa and Antos are fun
silk hearth
going through more tunnels means u might lose hp
primal hazel
Thans summon makes me sad
unborn pebble
If I don't get a real-scuffed fight.
river wing
😐 i havnt unlocked ant. rng pls...
primal hazel
Was the last one for me
tawny meadow
dusa is fun but she doesn't stun armored enemies
primal hazel
You need to finish sysiphus or orpheus first
silk hearth
does she stun bosses?
river wing
im way past epilogue and everything else. lol. ant still refuses to unlock
primal hazel
Dusa is nice on hestia imo
Since hestia struggles with cc
She's more for tough rooms
river wing
hmm maybe. i got rolled over by a chariot once in hades fight with hestia
unborn pebble
Decided that I could spare a minute-ish and get enough money for the last boon in Styx shop.
river wing
everything was going so well except i couldn't deal with that 1 chariot
unborn pebble
Should still be able to start Hades fight before minute 20 
primal hazel
Chaos really spoiling me
Already up to like 210% attack damage with hestia in tartarus
river wing
i like butterfly on hestia. much easier to not get hit on hestia relative to other stuff too
primal hazel
I rather make sure I get artemis asap
unborn pebble
F YEAH!!! 14 Second fight!
primal hazel
X
vivid kindle
Can someone explain to me Beowulf shield ? I though the principale was like Hera bow to stack Cast charge in it for heavy damage but (with Arthemis or Dyonisos at least) it's quite weak.
primal hazel
Well you don't play it with artemis usually
Aphrodite f.e. is better
Beowulf build: (rush divery on all, charge shot hammer makes flares explode around charge) Heartbreak Strike, Heartbreak Flourish, Passion Flare, Divine Dash, Zeus' Aid, Smoldering Air. Make sure you use Infernal Soul, charged flight hammer|Dionysus cast, zeus duo, stygian soul|flood flare, sea storm, poseidon legendary, not poseidon attack
Those are some ideas
Otherwise just go for cast extensions as usual
vivid kindle
Ok, thank you for the advices
unborn pebble
Turns out that lvl 3 Flood Shot and duo with Demeter is really nice when you have global damage boosters (Lambent+Rush Delivery and +26% damage from Aphro Weak expose) and 5 casts (bought 2 extra on the extra tunnel I took).
proven osprey
you're talking to a stone dude
primal hazel
Plot twist: you're actually giving the tips to yourself
proven osprey
unborn pebble
So I remembered something, in regards to damage boosters
The reason why Eris Rail is so good, is it because the dmg boost is global and can apply to effectively any build?
unkempt pagoda
yep
and it gives +% bonuses to things that very rarely ever get +% bonuses, and does it very, very easily
tawny meadow
Festive beo also benefits greatly from mirage shot
primal hazel
Welcome to the club
river wing
lightning strike and support fire getting boosted is amazing.
unborn pebble
Makes sense. Being able to boost the damage from the Scintillating Feast/Blizzard Shot extra sources is real cool.
primal hazel
Festive beo also benefits greatly from mirage shot
@tawny meadow afaik you can't get mirage on beo
At least someone said so
tawny meadow
Defs can best beo times have it
Well the ones with dio cast
Ideally you get feast and mirage
primal hazel
3.6k hestia crit let's goooooo
grim dune
kinda random question but is there any way to increase my chances of getting the chaos legendary boon?
unborn pebble
Mirror's alternate side, second from bottom "+10% chance for Duo/Legendary boon rarity".
grim dune
it seems incredibly rare, I just wanna see it once for the prophecy lol
unborn pebble
That, yeah.
primal hazel
It is incredibly rare
river wing
reroll the shop for chaos gates
primal hazel
I've gotten it 6 times in 160hrs and I take chaos basically every run
reroll the shop for chaos gates
@river wing pool not shop
grim dune
oh well, guess I'll just keep on at it... also I've seen it 0 times in around 100 hours lol
primal hazel
Same
Got my first one 115 hours in or so
You answered it wrong
Pool gives you ixion gate
Shop doesn't
river wing
okay
icy kernel
is Charged Skewer good? I'm using the Zagreus Aspect
deciding between that, Triple Jab and Quick Spin
primal hazel
It's awesome on guyay yu
icy kernel
i'm using the default aspect
primal hazel
On other spears explosive launcher is preferable first
Since it removes the need to retract the spear
Charged skewer with explosive launcher is nice too then
icy kernel
Honestly Guan Yu is great overall but it's so high risk
primal hazel
It's good on GY because it's special is basically higher damage explosive launcher already
primal hazel
Beat my time record
At 15:47 with hestia lol
Was hoping for sub 15 :(
If you're doing a special build skewer
Zag has special boost right?
icy kernel
yee
icy kernel
I think I should've taken Triple, but hopefully I get Explosive Shot later
I'm probably gonna build towards Sea Storm
primal hazel
Best of luck
icy kernel
Lol I decided to fight Charon on Tartarus for lulz
Obviously I died
TIL it's possible to get a Hermes blessing on the room before the Tartarus boss
primal hazel
Yeah in shop
primal hazel
Ah yeah just regular pre boss hermes room
unborn pebble
Quick question, if I want to "borrow" money from Charon, but one of the doors after him is the last time a Miniboss will be offered on this floor, can I end up in that Miniboss room after I've fought Charon?
devout ether
TIL it's possible to get a Hermes blessing on the room before the Tartarus boss
@icy kernel You can get both hermes boons before the first boss. One as a reward and one in the pre-boss shop, at least
I'm guessing that means there's also a chance for that to happen with hammers as well
primal hazel
Burned
gray shore
lel
well I guess you had insane damage considering the invuln phases are basically 4 seconds total or whatever
unborn pebble
Stygian Soul, +1 Cast from Charon, lvl 5 AchilleSpear, lvl 4 common Demeter Cast, ArtDem Duo, lvl 3 common "Cast Chills and lasts longer", lvl 1 common "10-stack chill explodes", Serrated Point hammer for spear, +1 Extra Dash, Demeter Attack.
Spam Special and Cast
Oh, forgot I had Epic Snow Burst too
Cycle in Dash attacks when able.
Laugh as Charon kept detonating 4+ times every second.
I think my up time was 4-6 casts at all times.
All boosted by the spear.
So almost as RollingStone said, ony not so much "Burned" as "Freezer Burned".
primal hazel
...
unborn pebble
Oh, hmm, yeah, revising my estimate on the time, then. Fight in total was sub 20 seconds after arriving.
So 16 seconds or less of actual combat?
Also really irritated because if I hadn't contaminated my boon pool by being forced to take an Ares down in Tartarus I'd been able to get the Artemis legendary too 😦
primal hazel
Not to rain on your parade but I kind of doubt that time
unborn pebble
Which is completely fair.
primal hazel
I'm not trying to say you're lying
More just misjudging time maybe
unborn pebble
Yeah, I got that.
primal hazel
No offense I hope
primal hazel
If you have td on you can measure it via timer
unborn pebble
That's what I did, kept glancing at it when he went invul. It is possible that I misread the start time as being XX:29, in which case it was likely XX:26, -25, or -23.
So that's what, Sub 30 instead of Sub 20, but near double the amount of combat time?
unborn pebble
I mean, my peak DPS was some 1080 points just from the casts.
I do know I had PS procced from something...
Razor Shoals?
Yeah, razor shoals.
jovial harness
I just need the money bag to show up somewhere other than tartarus lol
primal hazel
The earlier it shows up the more benefit tho
unborn pebble
Ok, each pair of Casts was 440 DPS, all buffs applied. So that's roughly 4k damage in the first 6 seconds of the fight.
What is Charon's HP value?
primal hazel
You're working for nothing m8
unborn pebble
Because from that point on my DPS never dropped below 1320, except when Charon was Invul, due to casts + Dash Strike.
primal hazel
Just time it next time
unborn pebble
Oh, I a personally curious now.
Wanna know if it is even theoretically possible, and by how much I miscalced if it ain't.
Oh, 16500. Leaving the 80% buffer, that's 13200 HP to chunk. Assuming 1 second of no casts at start to try and get Achilles buff up and Razor Shoals...
primal hazel
1 second if no casts?
unborn pebble
1 second of no buffed casts being out.
primal hazel
What weapon?
unborn pebble
Achilles Spear
primal hazel
Also don't your casts stuck?
unborn pebble
Demeter Lasers
primal hazel
Ah ok
Still m8
Theoretic dps breakdown is eh
Since you likely also don't have exact measures on stuff like casts being out, not attacking etc
unborn pebble
2 casts, each at base 12 dps, +10% ArtDem Duo, +150% Spear buff, +40% PS.
primal hazel
Timer/footage still better
unborn pebble
Yeah.
primal hazel
Yk hermes and chaos don't count?
unborn pebble
But that means sub 30 is def possible.
primal hazel
Aha
unborn pebble
First it was Sub 15 because I didn't think about the invul phases.
Second it was Sub 20 because that was the adjusted estimate from what numbers I had for time.
Sub 30 is me accounting for mistaking the start time.
primal hazel
Look man
Appreciate the effort
unborn pebble
Sub 20 is theoretically possible, but likely didn't happen. Even if this is only the damage from casts (not counting the unlevelled rare Demeter attack and the dash+razor shoal dmg from dash).
void fjord
well record it and lets see
primal hazel
But it probably is for naught
unborn pebble
Demeter Laser, Stygian recharge
void fjord
nice
unborn pebble
+1 Extra cast from chaos.
primal hazel
Theorizing won't do anything rn
unborn pebble
Lvl 3
So 9 seconds per crystal.
All common, btw
Artic blast, also common, lvl 1
primal hazel
...
void fjord
so you can have 8 all at once potentially
unborn pebble
Oh, I find number crunching extremely fun, Rolling
More like 6 out at once.
Accounting for misstimed dashes, Spear-Rushes, etc.
void fjord
you have the hermes boon for faster reload?
unborn pebble
The fun part was seeing that HP bar drop.
Nope.
And also seeing the Arctic Blast exploding multiple times/second.
unborn pebble
Oh, run is done.
unborn pebble
Nah, this is after-action.
Hades went at about the same rate.
And once again, when I have a good build, I forgot to use Meg the last time xD
languid dagger
guys, quick question, Shield Hammer that makes attack hit twice but stops the knockback - does it work for dash strike?
unborn pebble
Dash Strike will not hit twice, iirc.
void fjord
no clue, i barely run shield
primal hazel
Attack is attack
void fjord
it shouldnt though
unborn pebble
But Dash Strike on shield also doesn't have innate knockback, I think?
languid dagger
sucky hammer then
primal hazel
well, no boss can stand the ultimate dem cast build
@void fjord try blizzard shot then
sucky hammer then
@languid dagger no it's awesome
void fjord
i have tried so many builds under the sun bruv
primal hazel
Double damage on hit basically
languid dagger
but when do I attack with Aspect of Zeus - I just dash and strike around the screen
primal hazel
Well always depends on you build
Look man you don't need to list every single build to me
How could I have known
unborn pebble
@languid dagger which shield aspect are you using?
unborn pebble
Ahh, my b.
unborn pebble
Ah, not for him.
Well, I sorta answered my question in my own head too.
Eris Boosts all dmg, it works with whatever I build pick as long as it has any synergy at all.
void fjord
hence the zeus builds
languid dagger
yeah, doing heat 6 with Aspect of Zeus maxed. Medium build so far with Artemis on Attack and Special and Aphro on cast with wrong Chaos boon for attack and no duo yet (in Asphodel)
nothing like full Zeus build with Trippy Shot and duo
void fjord
poseidon is pretty good
primal hazel
Also nice thing about hera and beo is they remove the lob
void fjord
that instant cast incrase dmg is nice
primal hazel
Didn't say it's bad
languid dagger
I am running with Persephone flower so build whatever builds
primal hazel
^
unkempt pagoda
it does, but it can be a little wonky
waxen comet
Crush Shot is rather short but it does embed into targets
languid dagger
1:13 on two phases of Hades in the end, decent Aspect of Zeus build with Heart Rend Artemis call
Zeus spec is more fun for Aspect of Zeus tho
queen rock
What's the best way to force exclusive access as early as possible? Dump God's Pride and max God's Legacy and just hunt posideon and dionysus?
warm flare
flash fire vs concentrated beam for lucifer?
opal lodge
both are good
@queen rock yeah probably try to keepsake one in tart and find the other next by rng
early exclusive acess pretty much only matters for hermes boons though tbh
queen rock
In general, is gods Pride or legacy better?
opal lodge
god's pride
it's not really close
god's legacy helps you get specific duos/legendaries with a +10% chance which is paltry compared to the +20% epic boon chance
especially since the base chance to get a duo/legendary if you have all the prereqs and your core boons filled is already decently high
languid dagger
+1
queen patrol
i heard differ, the chances of getting duos and legendaries without are like 1%
jovial harness
@primal hazel from the earlier conversation, I don't see myself fighting charon other than for the hermes quest lol
primal hazel
Same
cunning urchin
Here are the chances of rolling a non-Hermes duo / legendary:
12% - Base chance of rolling duo/legendary per offered boon (in non-miniboss / non-styx rooms)
10% - increase from God's Legacy
10% - increase from corresponding god trinket
So for a normal room when you are running God's Legacy on the mirror and already have the pre-reqs, your overall chance of hitting the legendary/duo is:
39% - Chance with no god trinket and core boons not filled
51% - Chance with no god trinket but core boons are filled
54% - Chance with god trinket and core boons not filled
67% - Chance with god trinket and core boons are filled (edited
From ellomenop.
"Core" here only means Attack, Special, Cast, and Dash.
Call doesn't count.
pliant anvil
So, god's legacy seems pretty effective then?
cunning urchin
Yeah it's really strong.
pliant anvil
Obviously a trinkey and filling core boons is important too, but a flat 10% additive increase seems vastly better
jovial harness
I feel like I make too big of a deal of boon rarity
pliant anvil
I mean, rarity is good, it's like an extra pom or two of scaling that doesn't decrease as normal iirc
just not as powerful as a duo/legendary chance obviously
jovial harness
Wasting rerolls or not taking important boons because they're common
frail schooner
is it possible to get a call, get smoldering air, purge the call, and equip sigil?
frail schooner
no, i’m pretty sure I’ve switched to sigil in styx but that was when i just had no call
jovial harness
Just feel like I'd do better overall if I just grabbed important boons whenever I can
frail schooner
sounds fun tbh
basically 50% uptime on the dmg bonus
and you can use it to tank any hit
jovial harness
What, you can't get call boons with sigil?
That's weaksauce
It's not even that great of a call imo
opal lodge
the thing is, god's legacy kind of loses effectiveness when the base chance to get the legendary is like 50% with all core boons filled
dad call is broken
+100% damage for 2 seconds is nuts
it's global damage too
frail schooner
and dad greater call is basically better athena
opal lodge
i'd much prefer to get epic boons unless the crux of my build is a specific duo
frail schooner
also dad call removes poison
pliant anvil
I mean, isn't the crux of most builds a duo?
opal lodge
not really
pliant anvil
Unless you're doing a PS build I suppose
opal lodge
even for beowulf, which is hunting heavily for mirage shot
jovial harness
Specific duos are how you win without being good at the game at all
frail schooner
eris/rama don’t really need dúos most of the time
opal lodge
you run god's pride because epic trippy flare/hunter's mark are so much better
frail schooner
hunters mark is op
opal lodge
the only builds i would really consider taking legacy are the soaker and ME fists
and even on ME fists I personally like god's pride better because epic doom puts you two poms ahead of common doom
devout ether
I don't think Poms is what you should be comparing God's Pride to, but rather just more boons
They could be anything. Even a boat!
opal lodge
well im comparing poms specifically because 2 poms is what is necessary to make your dps the same on whatever boon is common vs epic
at least for fists, not sure about the scaling for some others but im p sure lightning strike is similar
devout ether
But two more boons is two boons closer to ME, plus after that it's two extra boons of things that can also deal damage.
pliant anvil
I think for most playstyles it may just be preference, but for things where the duo is pretty much required (i.e. ME) GL is the clear winner imo.
devout ether
I think for most playstyles it may just be preference, but for things where the duo is pretty much required (i.e. ME) GL is the clear winner imo.
@pliant anvil I agree, and I don't think it's particularly close either
pliant anvil
Yeah, when GL is better, it's better by a large margin. Playing doom without ME is painful.
pliant anvil
well, when it's the main damage on your build, it is rough
devout ether
We're talking about Merciful End, Rigged. It's very specific
pliant anvil
^
opal lodge
as someone who mindlessly grinded ME to a sub 9 time i dont think it's that hard to find with god's pride
pliant anvil
I think you're purposely excluding the context, rigged
opal lodge
on the other hand missing a good time because you have terrible doom base feels awful
pliant anvil
I feel like you're talking about a much different level than a more average user.
you're grinding for a specific time and looking to take risks for time saves
That's definitely not the average user's mindset
opal lodge
that's definitely fair
depending on your objective god's legacy may be better
i'm trying to explain why it's not my choice for the vast majority of builds
pliant anvil
So, I mean, your view is definitely valid. If I seriously was grinding for a PB, I absolutely see the value in going for higher chance of a high rarity.
devout ether
You're going for the low percentage play to eke out a very slim advantage, Bright
opal lodge
it's not really that low percentage
devout ether
In this context, even you can understand that it's not the optimal choice except if you get lucky
opal lodge
i basically find ME when i have prereqs LOL
pliant anvil
And I mean, that's fair again. It's what you're used to, and a lot of builds don't rely as heavily on duos as they first appear too (i.e. crits are still crits without heart rend, eris is still eris)
and that too is a form of luck though
I've gone an entire run to styx with out ME/sea storm more than a few times
despite having core boons filled, and trinkets equipped and spending rerolls
opal lodge
the chance of that is 57% without god's legacy vs 67% with
pliant anvil
going for a higher rarity is a "risky" play over more consistency though
but it isn't always 57% vs 67%
opal lodge
you just fill out core, which you should be doing regardless of god's pride vs legacy
pliant anvil
Right, but you don't always get offered enough boons to fill it right away. and you won't always have the right trinket equipped
(also it's 54% vs 67%)
opal lodge
the 54% is with core boons not filled
57% is with core boons filled and no god's legacy
pliant anvil
ah
Still, the point about not having the right god trinket is there. that's another 10% difference
opal lodge
right but that's also independent of god's legacy vs god's pride
pliant anvil
I agree, but you're comparing it with god trinket unless I'm mistaken
devout ether
If you're gunning for low times, you're also kinda banking on seeing both gods in Tartarus, too
pliant anvil
which makes the chance seem higher than it usually is
the difference between 47% and 57% is bigger than 57% and 67%
both are a 10% increase, but a larger relative increase (I forget the actual terminology for the increase)
opal lodge
so the calculation for missing your particular duo for 47% vs 57% on one reroll is (1-% chance)^2
in these cases the chance of missing your duo is very low for both
and if you're running these types of builds you save your rerolls for the duo roll anyway
look if you like god's legacy that's fair
pliant anvil
which, for someone looking for the stars to align already is whatever, but again, but the more average player, they'll probably want GL
opal lodge
i just don't want people to be misled by "muh green boon"
pliant anvil
for the consistency over the potential maximum power of the run
opal lodge
i don't think a 72% chance on one reroll is the stars aligning
devout ether
i just don't want people to be misled by "muh green boon"
@opal lodge Ah yes, being misled.... by the better choice the majority of the time
pliant anvil
Bright, speedrunning, when pushed to their limits in one way or another, are usually "the stars aligned" in several factors
i.e. getting both gods in tartarus, or being offered the boon on the first god who can offer it, or looking for an epic rarity boon to start the run
individually no, they're not "hard" to get, but add up several of the factors and the chance starts to dwindle for the "perfect" run you're looking for with GP
opal lodge
you don't need to explain speedrunning to me lol
even on runs that prize consistency
e.g. all weps or 3 weps
god's legacy is rarely the popular choice
pliant anvil
Again, maybe for the top level where you're looking for every single advantage you can get
opal lodge
wouldn't consistency be an advantage in all weps 
pliant anvil
Where one bad room can kill your time, but in general, GL is a better choice for most people
Not for top times
especially since while it makes epic boons more common, it doesn't mean you'll see one
opal lodge
you can say the exact same thing about god's legacy and duo boons though
anyway i think both sides of this have been pretty fairly hashed out
pliant anvil
Except duo boons don't have a rarity variance like other boons. If you get a duo, you get the duo
opal lodge
people should have enough info to make their own decisions
pliant anvil
How much does GP increase the chance for an epic boon by anyways?
opal lodge
20%
one consideration is that the 20% also applies to hermes which is not insignificant
solid cairn
I take god's legacy most runs
solid cairn
too used to it
opal lodge
i feel like you're the first speed person i've heard who takes legacy for non ME builds
solid cairn
wut
people take it on eris
higher chance for sea storm
most builds in speedruns want a duo
opal lodge
i'm pretty sure most people have converted but i could be wrong
opal lodge
yeah wriste was talking about it before races this morning
may be a newer thing
don't want to drag this too off topic but you can ask about it in the disc IG
opal lodge
LOL
pliant anvil
@opal lodge I mean, what's it convert the chance to? Is it's an additive increase? How does it affect the other rarities?
opal lodge
i believe it should be additive, for epic only
split orbit
I hear mixed reviews about aspect of eris. Is it good?
opal lodge
who is giving out bad reviews for eris LMAO
silent talon
anny tips on what to use on chaos shield special ? i used ares now because i like dio on attack for ez stack
opal lodge
zeus
silent talon
i was thinking the same , lemme try next run, but dio on attack still viable ? maybe go with poseidon for dash ?
opal lodge
tidal dash is never a bad idea
still vigil
magic stone
upper pumice
just me or does arthur sword have some insane base damage
split orbit
@silent talon regarding your chaos shield special i choose dio or zeus for special due to how fast you can hit it out and ares as atk
kindred heart
does anyone have a recording of merciful end on blitz disc's attack and special?
split orbit
I think gamepedia is wrong on the dio/ares boon requirement
I don't have any of area's curse boons (only slicing shot, engulfing vortex, and vicious cycle) and It gave it to ke
But I have dio atk boon
primal hazel
Wiki is outdated in some areas
does anyone have a recording of merciful end on blitz disc's attack and special?
@kindred heart whatchu mean
kindred heart
i was thinking merciful end seems like a really strong duo boon, and it seems to be limited by how fast you can hit with a doom and then a deflect
with blitz disc, you can attack with special and main at the same time pretty much
primal hazel
It isn't
primal hazel
Usually you take dash for faster triggers
Well your limited by your own trigger and appliance speed
Usually you take ares special, athena attack and dash
Then just kite your disc and trigger with dash
kindred heart
yeah, the blitz disc can attack like 3x a second right
primal hazel
Obvs you have to be careful not to dash into your disc on return
stone river
I 100%'d the game and curious what is the best build to farm Gemstones with
now just trying to farm the cosmetics lmao
proven osprey
gems are truly outrageous
primal hazel
Not really a build for farming
Guess just darker thirsty, 0 heat, Authority, poseidon increase and chaos increase
stone river
ok taric wrong game 😛
proven osprey
glad someone got it
primal hazel
League of legends?
proven osprey
yeah
stone river
i am scared to play with all the new items and heard adc gets dumpstered LMAO
proven osprey
an old one
stone river
i main adc
primal hazel
Only know it from runeterra lol
proven osprey
I was too, but it's been a while and not feeling to play it anymore
stone river
it is a brand new game they introduced like mythical items now and reworked all the items
lmao
primal hazel
I stick to my strengths aka tcgs
stone river
@primal hazel what is darker thirst?
proven osprey
I stick to my strengths aka tcgs
@primal hazel are you a weeb ?
primal hazel
The buff a weapon gets that gets you more darkness, and when upgraded from the contractor, gems
@primal hazel are you a weeb ?
@proven osprey 500%
Jk
Nah I've been just playing tcgs since I was like 8
proven osprey
proven osprey
I kinda like it but can't play too much of it
good thing the off topic police is not there
queen rock
What's usually preferred, fated authority or fated persuasion?
solid cairn
persuasion I think
torpid abyss
Dang, you ever have rare boons and pick Rare crop
Just for it to affects the only 2 epic boons you have
dry ember
Congrats!
frail schooner
gg
stark ore
Nice!
woven delta
Do you ever take Rare Crop only for it to select your dash boon for increased rarity
Stuff like this is why I only ever picked it up once
For the fated list
stark ore
But it makes your dash deal 28 damage instead of 16, that's busted!!!!
woven delta
It’s only potentially busted if you happen to have Poisiden’s dash boon, and even then only if you happen to be going for a dash-only run for some reason and also have Razor Shoals
actually though has anyone ever attempted a dash-only run
stark ore
Probably
royal helm
Upping the rarity of splash dash might be worth it... for damage... but otherwise, no
pliant anvil
or sea storm tbf
royal helm
You tend to pick your dash for utility... rarity upgrades don't provide that
Oh, I suppose Hunter Dash as well
Pure damage dash
torpid abyss
So, what's a good hammer for Hestia gun?
pliant anvil
any of the ones that affect the attack, but imo, especially the one that pieces for the extra armor damage
proven osprey
ricochet
torpid abyss
I have like 3 fire hammers here
pliant anvil
though ricochet and explosive can be good too as long as enemies are a little close together
targetting system is pretty good too imo
since it might be multiplicative for damage
torpid abyss
Spread fire, ricochet fire or seeking fire
unkempt pagoda
piercing, ricochet, and explosive are the only ones that affect the empowered shot
torpid abyss
Hmm... It's touch pick
pliant anvil
prolly ricochet imo then
torpid abyss
I have artemis attack btw
proven osprey
It's really good
pliant anvil
hitting two enemies with an empowered shot would do a fair bit
unkempt pagoda
definitely ricochet
torpid abyss
Yeah, that's fair
unkempt pagoda
hestia suffers heavily from being single target, need that multi target to clear regular rooms effectively
crimson badge
playing chiron bow and this Might be the best build ive ever had so far
only 60 hours in this game tho so im not that good
outer rose
I like the spear and Poseidon/Dionysus buffs to it
Hangover’s good for it
Or a dash that inflicts it
pliant anvil
hangover dash is terrible, don't think I'd take it for almost any reason.
Maybe to fill a core slot if I don't have athena and I've seen all 4 gods for the run I guess.
outer rose
Hmm
Admittedly, it’s worked for me personally
I have gotten Athena’s dash
I like that one best if I get it
pliant anvil
Honestly, I'd take any dash over dio's.
crimson badge
yeah i just hit a 29 minutes new record
it really really isnt much but thats the best ive ever did
pliant anvil
Dio's is very awkward and has the lowest hangover damage
outer rose
Holy
crimson badge
(i played shield before which is. yknow. kinda slow
outer rose
Hangover for a weapon is better I think
crimson badge
chiron bow took out redacted so fast, damn
pliant anvil
hangover on anything else is better yeah
you can say hades here, this is a channel that assumes you've at least gotten to him
crimson badge
ah ok
outer rose
But man the Poseidon pushback combined with the spear’s useful for the hydras and the team up in Elysium
primal hazel
So, what's a good hammer for Hestia gun?
@torpid abyss only 3 hammers even affect hestia shot
outer rose
God the Elysium fight sucks
And the fact you gotta fight the Minotaur first before it
primal hazel
You don't
primal hazel
You can but you don't
But if you do he has less health
proud topaz
popping a companion helps a lot
primal hazel
It's good for practice
outer rose
Don’t got those yet
proud topaz
wlel
primal hazel
If champions is still giving you trouble this is prolly the wrong channel for you
No offense
Cause this is spoiler territory
outer rose
Got to hades, but he kicked my butt in the second phase
primal hazel
Ah I see best girl as pfp
torpid abyss
Did someone ping me here, or...?
primal hazel
Scrolling hard eh?
torpid abyss
No i'm on mobile
primal hazel
Well then yk what to do
hearty ibex
can you get more than 1 duo boon in a run? anyone know? lol
primal hazel
Yes
hearty ibex
cool ty!
calm bluff
As someone who got every duo boon except the one I'm building around
yes
yes you can
dusky nimbus
has anyone been able to get duo boons during the trial of the gods?
primal hazel
Not possible
primal hazel
Possible
dusky nimbus
oh ok
been trying for the longest time to get a duo from it sometimes
explains it
primal hazel
It's nice for checking of pre reqs
analog nymph
Heyo
Neat some quick help
Daedalus hammer, or double boon room?
It's artemis and athena, or daedelus' hammer. I'm still in Tartarus
primal hazel
Depend on aspect and build
pliant anvil
what's in the trial room?
untold iris
take boons
pliant anvil
Poseidon aspect is focused on the cast yeah
split orbit
Is Athena cast that good on posiedon sword? I always run arty
primal hazel
Yes
analog nymph
Thought so, thank you
pliant anvil
yeah
primal hazel
With aphrodite duo
pliant anvil
arty cast is kinda meh tbh
untold iris
artemis cast is meh
analog nymph
Already got athena duo
untold iris
its so low damage
primal hazel
It's fun with hera
analog nymph
What's the aphrodite duo?
primal hazel
Parting shot
pliant anvil
edit wounds
untold iris
you're really looking for artemis boons that boost cast
exit wounds and fully loaded
and if you can get artemis + poseidon duo eventually thats good too
primal hazel
edit wounds
@pliant anvil get it
Cause I have to Edit 90% of my posts
primal hazel
Gg
Now get pressure points
Pick up the legendary afterwards
Also greater recall from hermes
analog nymph
Greater recall?
untold iris
fully loaded
pliant anvil
greater recall auto returns your dropped stones to you
primal hazel
If I say greater recall I mean greater recall
untold iris
its pretty hard to get though since it has one specific prereq
analog nymph
Oo
pliant anvil
I mean, I think plume also counts iirc
primal hazel
its pretty hard to get though since it has one specific prereq
@untold iris nope
Flurry cast and the other one works
pliant anvil
it's def not something to rely on though
untold iris
yeah but that means you have to take plume
primal hazel
No infernal soul cast counts
untold iris
greater recall requires either one specific boon or plume
but plume is not that great to equip randomly for a biome and you have one chance to find the one specific hermes boon
primal hazel
Oh also requires infernal soul
untold iris
its not super necessary on posiedon sword anyways
you can juts hit them with special
and pick up your cast stones
I would rather just take like, an extra dash or something
analog nymph
Aight so I've got the pos aspect. I have arty, demeter, athena. Should I go for anyone in particular?
pliant anvil
yeah poseidon for the mirage shot
queen rock
I have about 20 Titan blood. I haven't unlocked any aspects yet. What are good ones?
untold iris
its especially good since you have exit wounds
primal hazel
It's not super necessary but nice
analog nymph
Ah okay
primal hazel
I have about 20 Titan blood. I haven't unlocked any aspects yet. What are good ones?
@queen rock unlock aspects
Go on a run
If you don't like it
Give the run up
As longs as you don't leave the courtyard before you will have spent no blood and unlocked no aspects
Free trial
untold iris
tbh I just unlocked all the aspects first before spending blood on powering them up
but its also fine to try them out and unlock only your favorite ones first
untold iris
poseidon
you need to find a core boon from him
either attack/special/dash/call
I assume your cast is already filled
untold iris
then attempt to reroll your next artemis/poseidon boon into mirage shot
analog nymph
I don't have the shadow mirror thing for that though. Filling out some challenges
So parting shot isn't good for me rn
untold iris
parting shot is worse than mirage shot anyways
solid cairn
parting shot is pretty meh except on phalanx shot
untold iris
he has phalanx shot I think
primal hazel
Which he has
untold iris
but he also has exit wounds
primal hazel
Checkmate atheist
opal lodge
i'll take it if i get it on crush shot hera
untold iris
which makes mirage shot a lot better
analog nymph
Oop
opal lodge
but i prefer mirage a lot more
primal hazel
Mirage shot doesn't give additional lodges
untold iris
are you sure mirage shot doesnt give a second lodge?
analog nymph
Should I use spiked collar? I have the bad version of death defy cause the contract thing
solid cairn
god that was so broken
opal lodge
literally no im a 1.0 player 
untold iris
I dont normally play cast builds but i could have sworn that it did
primal hazel
are you sure mirage shot doesnt give a second lodge?
@untold iris similar to chaos shield
primal hazel
Not counted as the actual thing
solid cairn
it pretty much did the same thing, except it could be pommed and at higher rarities it was actually stronger than mirage shot
primal hazel
No additional lodges since there would be additional dislodges
solid cairn
quick reload also belonged to artemis
opal lodge
@solid cairn sounds busted lol
so artemis was best girl before and is still best girl now
untold iris
why did they axe all the cast stuff for artemis
analog nymph
Aight I'll just use spiked collar then
opal lodge
nothing changed
untold iris
but leave the legendary
solid cairn
and fully loaded gave 3 casts, and its prereqs were quick reload, dual shot, and exit wounds
primal hazel
Aight I'll just use spiked collar then
@analog nymph no
solid cairn
she still has exit wounds
analog nymph
@primal hazel
Why
solid cairn
it was kinda ridiculous
analog nymph
I have 130 health and only one death defy
solid cairn
it is weird that fully loaded only has 1 prereq that is cast-related now though
untold iris
tbh I would prefer if artemis kept quick reload and dual shot and they just nerfed them a bit if they were too strong
primal hazel
Take either poseidon or aphrodite keepsake
untold iris
like artemis has some cast boons but they're not super common anymore
analog nymph
Ig sure
solid cairn
I mean, dual shot is fundamentally insanely strong
quick reload makes more sense on hermes
quick reload in itself is pretty balanced
I think it was pretty justified
artemis is already so good
having her be the go-to for cast builds in addition to crit builds is a little much
untold iris
having her be the go-to for crit builds is perfectly acceptable because crit is her thing
nobody has an issue with ares being the go-to for doom builds or for blade builds
solid cairn
I mean if you want your attack or special to do more damage you go with artemis most of the timr
untold iris
artemis being the damage god feels fine to me
if its too much they should buff the other gods
like poseidon/athena/demeter attack could use some number buffs
maybe not athena because deflect is really good
solid cairn
I mean quick reload is a prereq for greater recall now at least
untold iris
but I barely take poseidon/demeter attack or special unless I really have to
solid cairn
it is kinda strange that her legendary is specifically just for casts
untold iris
actually, you know what, I would probably prefer it if artemis and demeter legendaries were just easier to get in general
solid cairn
like zeus' legendary is useful for everything zeus
untold iris
having it be two prereqs, many of which are tier 2 boons, is really annoying
solid cairn
other ones are for like half of their kit
like dio's is for festive fog and ares' is for blade rifts
untold iris
imo you should be able to get a legendary with the following path: core boon -> tier 2 boon -> legendary
and yeah I agree that I would prefer if legendaries were more broadly applicable
untold iris
I mean that more legendaries should be like zeus legendary
where you can take one core boon, one tier 2 boon, and be able to find the legendary
core boons dont enable artemis or demeter legendary, which makes them really annoying to get
solid cairn
zeus' legendary is one of the better ones because if you want to go lightning you will already be taking double strike/storm lightning/high voltage
primal hazel
Imo dionysus is the worst offender
untold iris
since the normal build path for something like demeter legendary is core demeter boon, two more demeter boons, and then the legendary, which is much harder to find
solid cairn
dionysus only needs one tier 2 wdym
untold iris
isnt dio's legendary two t1s?
opal lodge
just weird
solid cairn
oh nvm
untold iris
its really weird
primal hazel
Guess just cause it's weird to achieve
untold iris
but its probably less restrictive than artemis/demeter?
solid cairn
true
opal lodge
im gonna try to get dio aid for my 45 attempt so i can get blackout LOL
primal hazel
And sux
primal hazel
Jk
opal lodge
but fun
untold iris
like with artemis if you dont find exactly PP first, you have to take 3 boons to enable the legendary
same with demeter
solid cairn
since hangover does not synergize with fog
primal hazel
Yup
opal lodge
hangover does not really synergize with fog at all
primal hazel
I fell like they intended something like that
opal lodge
maybe if they buffed the combo damage it would be nice
primal hazel
And just dropped some tier 2 boons along the way
opal lodge
like if it were 80% or 100% or smth idk
solid cairn
ares' is okay
opal lodge
demeter legendary is luls
untold iris
what if ares legendary made blade rifts proc doom
solid cairn
second wave could be good if it like applied damage again
untold iris
and then they changed ME to something else
frail schooner
demeter legendary is at least 11% global damage
primal hazel
Could be better
Compared to zeus, poseidon and demeter legendary
Which are logical extensions of the core gods gimmick
Which is what legendaries should be imo
untold iris
aphro legendary is fine too
solid cairn
yeah
primal hazel
Yes charm is awesome
untold iris
since it applies on basically everything
primal hazel
Applies too
untold iris
since all aphro boons do weak
opal lodge
i think we've just come to the conclusion that dio legendary sucks
primal hazel
Just spitballed the first that came to mind
opal lodge
athenas legendary has very niche uses
primal hazel
athena's is just
@solid cairn it's ez go get
untold iris
since it requires exactly one boon
primal hazel
Basically mobile acorn
frail schooner
apparently you can’t die from TD with athena legendary
untold iris
TD*
opal lodge
that is mostly what i meant by niche uses lol
untold iris
yeah you dont take TD damage when athena's legendary is active
frail schooner
not really sure why that is though
solid cairn
greater recall is way better than bad news
primal hazel
Both are fine imo
opal lodge
not if you take lightning rod
primal hazel
That's the point
solid cairn
oh nvm I thought it was something else
opal lodge
bad news is very nice to have
primal hazel
Played yourself xD
opal lodge
i'd just rather have an epic rush delivery please
primal hazel
Yep
frail schooner
op for beamz
primal hazel
More damage cast damage to peeps without casts in em
Imagine calling something about beans op
solid cairn
btw does it bother anyone else that bad news has the exact same icon as flurry cast
solid cairn
they actually swapped a lot of arty's icons around
primal hazel
Good that I wasn't around for that
analog nymph
Is it possible to get more than one duo boon?
primal hazel
Yes
analog nymph
Pog
Also
Does shadow slash work with parting shot?
Shadow slash is the daedelus hammer upgrade. +200% when attacking from behind
untold iris
no
analog nymph
Would cast get that?
untold iris
shadow slash only works on attacks
its in the description
it also doesnt work on dash attacks
analog nymph
How do boon upgrades work?
primal hazel
What do you mean?
silk hearth
diminishing returns
analog nymph
I mean
primal hazel
Exactly
analog nymph
Sorry should have clarified
I have a common demeter call rn
Would another god upgrade that to epic or something, or just to rare?
analog nymph
So I could only get it up to rare?
primal hazel
Rare crop allows multiple upgrades for (a) specific boon(s)
wraith moss
Does anyone know if hermes attack speed affects the bows charge time?
wraith moss
It does? I always figured it didn't but cool, thanks
primal hazel
Get your charge on
wraith moss
Rama explosive shot is slightly less painful now
primal hazel
The painfulness is traded if for insane power
frail schooner
i like triple explosive shot on rama
wraith moss
Yeah I've been using rama with the sigil of the dead to charge up the shots + the extra damage
wraith moss
Yeah I'm aware but I enjoy doing 5000 dmg per charge shot, also I just really like sigil
wraith moss
I like damage numbers
primal hazel
I like winning
untold iris
hermes attack speed is a trap on bows
it only affects regular attack, not dash attack
and the large majority of bows would prefer to dash attack almost all the time
actually maybe every bow would prefer to dash attack
wraith moss
You do a lot less damage on dash attacks but generally yeah
untold iris
its not a lot less
its like 10 less lol
but in return the attacks are a lot safer
since they charge faster and also you can dash to reposition yourself
wraith moss
I remember it being around 30% less?