How is that weird?
#h1-builds-and-combat
cunning urchin
I'd rather help people learn about the game than remain ignorant about stuff like that and maybe not give an aspect a chance that they could grow to love with some practice.
proven osprey
Not everyone follows the sensei path, Nyaanyaa.
keen hazel
Because let people eat their words rather then open your own mouth and potentially look silly later. I'm also pretty sure unsolicited advice like that doesn't come off as polite
devout ether
GY is nowhere near high tier tho
cunning urchin
It's pretty high for most heats. Not really until high heat that it falls off.
frank dew
The same principle applies anyway even if its not high tier
devout ether
All weapons are viable at up to 32 heat so not sure what your measure is there
hoary slate
GY is midfield in any% right now 
gray shore
GY is midfield in any% right now
@hoary slate Where can we see those stats please?
cunning urchin
They're all still viable at 40 lol. Guan Yu is decently fast and actually very safe up to around that. HP penalty isn't really an issue until you need to turn on FO because it's so good at clearing everything without taking damage until you turn on FO where that becomes a lot more difficult.
It's certainly not "bad", anyway.
hoary slate
@hoary slate Where can we see those stats please?
@gray shore i just combed through speedrun.com/hades
gray shore
Thank you!
proven osprey
FO hard, me agree
gray shore
What a surprise there's a whoooooooole lotta Eris
devout ether
What a surprise there's a whoooooooole lotta Eris
@gray shore What did you expect of a literal leaderboard of speedrunners
gray shore
I'm not sure I put enough "o"s in there
cunning urchin
There are only 2 Guan Yu runs on the board, so you can't really gauge its potential from just that lol.
gray shore
:)
unkempt pagoda
could say eris is causing a lot of strife 
keen hazel
It means that people aren't clearing it very fast with GY
cunning urchin
Just mine (I'm not really a speedrunner) and then bablo's after he saw mine and figured he should do one with it.
keen hazel
Not that people aren't trying
devout ether
If you want weapon stats, look at the all weapons category
gray shore
or it could mean that a 1000x more people are playing Eris than GY
hoary slate
It means everybodys just using Eris
devout ether
Though I dont remember if they call out each aspect used
cunning urchin
No one is really trying with it lol.
keen hazel
Probably because it isn't fast
gray shore
It means that people aren't clearing it very fast with GY
@keen hazel this is basically speculation
hoary slate
It's just Bablo who put up a record everywhere
devout ether
My guy, you do not seem to understand how speedrunners operate
keen hazel
@keen hazel this is basically speculation
@gray shore yes, the boards will change. but you dont understand how fast speedrunners optimize metas
devout ether
If GY were faster than Eris, everyone would know by now
half crater
lol
cunning urchin
It's obviously not faster than Eris lol.
half crater
i mean, it’s funny because of how long it took people to realise how fast eris is
gray shore
No one is saying GY is similar tier to Eris
cunning urchin
Most speedrunners just copy whatever 5-or-so people do lol.
half crater
^
keen hazel
Most speedrunners just copy whatever 5-or-so people do lol.
@cunning urchin This is not true
keen hazel
Speedrunners are constantly looking for alternate paths to cut time
gray shore
and just optimise and learn eris
keen hazel
Because if you find something better, you get on top
half crater
the top tier speedrunners experiment, but 90% of the runs on speedrun.com are just people copying sea storm eris
gray shore
But if Eris is just quicker than GY, they'll do Eris. And Eris is quicker than GY
keen hazel
That's the point. If GY were faster, it would be the one used
devout ether
This is why I'm telling you guys to look at all-weapons category
opal lodge
its also because literally everyone is using eris right now
half crater
nemesis used to dominate in speedrunning circles
opal lodge
if my time gets verified i would have a top 5 Beo time by virtue of simply playing beo
half crater
then people where like, oh wait, eris is just better what
this game is not perfectly optimised yet
keen hazel
It's entirely possible a new build will be found at literally any time that will make Eris obsolete
hoary slate
That's the point. If GY were faster, it would be the one used
@keen hazel So you want to have every single aspect to closely compete in speed?
opal lodge
once 3 weps takes off or people get tired of grinding anyheat we'll see more submissions for other weapons
cunning urchin
People don't run Guan Yu because everyone uses Achilles on spear lol.
half crater
if my time gets verified i would have a top 5 Beo time by virtue of simply playing beo
@opal lodge i’m 5th in the 32 heat category
... out of 6
keen hazel
@keen hazel So you want to have every single aspect to closely compete in speed?
@hoary slate No not at all. Idc about all that
cunning urchin
Doesn't mean it's slow, it means people think Achilles is the fastest spear.
devout ether
People don't run Guan Yu because everyone uses Achilles on spear lol.
@cunning urchin Right. Cause GY is not fast
opal lodge
@half crater yeah its literally a graveyard for underrepresented categories/aspects
gray shore
What's the debate precisely? That GY is/isn't a speedrunning weapon, or just capable of doing TD3 high heat?
seems like this topic is pretty murky on its central question
devout ether
It was to dispel this thing of "GY is high tier" nonsense
keen hazel
There's no debate, you asked about statistics on time and it led to speedrunning disco
opal lodge
im down
proven osprey
TD3 is ez
opal lodge
sign me up
proven osprey
half crater
same
keen hazel
yea me too now that i said it
cunning urchin
It could be literally 30 sec slower on average than Achilles and people would only take Achilles instead.
That's not "slow" lol.
keen hazel
30 seconds when youre talking about 10 minutes or less is slow
opal lodge
unless youre babli
gray shore
What does further speed matter from heat record standpoint
opal lodge
bablo
gray shore
if you can always achieve TD3
proven osprey
We're not getting anywhere lol
opal lodge
and your arthur time is faster than most people's eris
keen hazel
my arthur time might be faster than my eris time
unkempt scroll
This is BS... With 900% dmg boost against armor and I still can't beat it
gray shore
beat what?
keen hazel
love that chonky boy
half crater
my beo time is only 2 seconds slower than my eris time, because i was 4 sacked
all my times are very unimpressive tho so it doesn’t matter much
keen hazel
same i have like a couple of 16s
half crater
14 is like, this weird wall for me
unkempt scroll
I got 1 min to beat the final boss on EM4 -.-
half crater
i keep getting closer, but i can’t seem to cross it
I got 1 min to beat the final boss on EM4 -.-
@unkempt scroll believe in yourself
opal lodge
td is not as serious as it seems just keep ur composure
keen hazel
I got 1 min to beat the final boss on EM4 -.-
@unkempt scroll you got this
keen hazel
I baseline play with at least TD2 and EM3
hoary slate
He has at least 30s just transitions I think
keen hazel
Feels weird and slow otherwise
unkempt scroll
And I had to click multiple times before this slow game could go through a BS door
gray shore
Take a breath, TD doesn't kill you instantly
if you have enough damage you can still do it
maybe you're not pausing the game enough
unkempt scroll
I used 4 and half minutes to beat the third boss. What do you think? -.-
gray shore
I don't see your build I don't know how much damage you do xD
I also don't know how aggressively you played Heroes
unkempt scroll
Lighting strike
devout ether
I used 4 and half minutes to beat the third boss. What do you think? -.-
@unkempt scroll Do you mean all of elysium or just heroes?
Cause if its just heroes...... you need to prioritize getting more damage, man
Like....... a LOT more damage
unkempt scroll
Takes me about half a minute to do 10% of his entire hp...
half crater
what 4thQueen said; if the fight is taking that long, the problem is probably your build as opposed to your micro
devout ether
You need to completely rethink how you're dealing damage friend
unkempt scroll
Zag
3 DDs can't save me from that timer
FFS
I guess I gotta wait till they make it less of a BS game
half crater
oof
gray shore
Lightning strike is just about the worst single target dps you can take
It may even be the worst
keen hazel
100%, it falls off hard later
gray shore
even then, there are better options for damage
there's a reason why people prioritise getting their strike of choice early into the run
devout ether
I guess I gotta wait till they make it less of a BS game
@unkempt scroll Or you could
you know
git gud
proven osprey
gray shore
game isn't BS, we just need to continually arm ourselves with knowledge
once we've maxed out our mirror anyway
unkempt scroll
@devout ether, I'm not gonna get any better at this game.
half crater
hell, i got my first 32 without either of them, so you don’t even need them to push heat (for a given value of pushing heat)
devout ether
Well not with that attitude you aint!
half crater
i mean, you will get better if you practice
cunning urchin
Lightning Strike on Malphon has excellent single-target DPS.
half crater
but if you aren’t having fun doing that, it’s totally fine to do something else
unkempt scroll
I know how good I can get at this game, it has nothing to do with my attitude.
cunning urchin
Lightning Strike and Curse of Agony are as good as it gets for DPS on Malphon.
devout ether
Then turn down TD and do it your way?
unkempt scroll
Then I'm gonna have to up something else that'll just ruin the run, anyway.
cunning urchin
You could watch some of the high-heat runs from the pinned spreadsheet in #h1-high-heat-strategies or maybe some speedruns with your aspect to see what they do differently.
devout ether
If you're that high heat, why are you even using Zag aspect to begin with
cunning urchin
Zag Aspect is good.
half crater
zag aspect is fine
devout ether
Yeah but apparently he needs all the help he can get
unkempt scroll
Either that or Demeter, and I won't even be using the special half the time.
So what, Queen? Not everybody can just play like you, perhaps.
devout ether
Naw man I aint even that good, still havent ventured beyond EM4
cunning urchin
So what exactly are you having difficulty with? I didn't follow the whole conversation.
half crater
Naw man I aint even that good, still havent ventured beyond EM4
@devout ether ... to EM5? 👀
unkempt pagoda
em5 is just a boss rush
cunning urchin
EM5 is just HL5 CP2 FO2 RI4 and fight Charon. 
unkempt scroll
The BS dash won't work as I want it to, the door is triggering me by ignoring my "interact button", attacks hits me even though I dash
cunning urchin
In Tartarus.
half crater
sounds fun
cunning urchin
Hmmm.
devout ether
EM5 is just HL5 CP2 FO2 RI4 and fight Charon.
@cunning urchin Vade retro
cunning urchin
Dash-Strikes don't have i-frames.
You need to make sure you empty-dash, or you'll for sure get hit.
unkempt scroll
Even with divine dash?
cunning urchin
Correct.
unkempt scroll
Then what the hell is the point of having this BS boon
gray shore
Because you can still deflect if you time it right?
It's not invulnerability, but it's insane utility
unkempt scroll
It's so useless
half crater
divine dash is arguably the best boon in the game
devout ether
Man, blaming the game for all your failings sure isnt scoring you any points here
gray shore
Sounds like you're getting frustrated rather than engaging if you're calling divine dash useless
unkempt scroll
I only need that against second boss and Elysium, for the ground purple shots
That's the only attack I need divine against
Everything else is just pointless
cunning urchin
Divine Dash has a Deflect box that's a bit wider than your hurtbox normally, but it doesn't cover you entirely if you're attacking mid-dash.
Well, then you could take Hunter Dash instead for more damage if you don't feel that you need Divine Dash.
unkempt scroll
And of course it's frustrating, didn't you read the part about a door triggering me? 💢
I wanna burn that door -_-
devout ether
Sounds like you need a cold shower
half crater
what door is this
cunning urchin
Just gotta F10 that. Can't really help with it. Never had that problem.
unkempt scroll
The one behind Cerberus... Dash - Dash - E - ignored - E again
Right after I had to waste all the time at Styx 😒
gray shore
You sound very tilted
unkempt scroll
I'm mostly tilted due to the dashing not doing as I click...
Sometimes it just dashed into poison instead of away...
cunning urchin
Sounds you pressed Dash before tilting your stick. He'll just dash in the direction he faces then.
unkempt scroll
I might be able to do it with bow, but that's even slower, I think...
gray shore
are you on KBM or controller
unkempt scroll
Keyboard + mouse
cunning urchin
Hmm.
unkempt scroll
I'm pretty sure I clicked the button away from the poison as I dashed
cunning urchin
I might be able to do it with bow, but that's even slower, I think...
"It" being?
devout ether
Maybe you're getting frame drops?
gray shore
I mean, I've never had the game do that to me
I know you're not new
I'm just confused why that would happen
gray shore
Diagnostics often mean asking the dumb questions first
unkempt scroll
I don't think I got confused... I think I kinda yelled at it o_o
devout ether
Steam has a handy framerate counter you can turn on, if your game is lagging that can mess with your inputs usually
unkempt scroll
I don't think it's lagging
cunning urchin
Hestia, Chiron, Chaos Aspect, probably Eris. I think those are your best bet for 32 Heat if you're struggling with it.
unkempt scroll
But, I think I'd have to use like, 10-12 mins to beat the final boss with my current heat setup...
That's just +15% hp...
gray shore
I've just never had dash direction screw up without bad input from me
maybe play around in the training chamber
cunning urchin
Although I've never been good with Chaos Aspect, but a lot of people seem to have success with it for their first 32.
gray shore
do nothing but dash for a while
see if it's reproducible
because then you know you've got a problem
you can't really play Hades if dash is screwing up on you
xD
cunning urchin
@unkempt scroll I think we should move to #h1-high-heat-strategies since we're discussing 32 Heat. I can look at your pact and mirror setup if you link to it there.
unkempt scroll
Shouldn't +15% hp, TD2, and JS1 be easy??
cunning urchin
And just talk strategies for aspects, keepsakes, what builds to go for.
unkempt scroll
Uhh, sure. I guess I can try that while I eat
cunning urchin
👍🏽
still vigil
sorry @cunning urchin i thought 40 was considered high heat?
devout ether
I'd argue 32 is high heat, but the high heat channel pretty much talks about anything north of 20
still vigil
oh okay ive been bamboozled then
gray shore
It's more to segment advice for players who are serious about the endgame past bounties
and those who aren't
Since advice for high heat and low heat aren't mutually applicable
cunning urchin
It's kind of the haven we asked for when we were discussing our 40+ strats in the same channel as everyone was discussing their 4 Heat and stuff. A lot of very not productive disagreements, and we felt that our discussions intimidated a lot of players lol.
still vigil
ahh
primal hazel
The Elite club
primal hazel
fast shore
anyone got any preferences for spear runs? trying to use guan yu aspect but dang the 50% hp drain does not feel like its worth it
primal hazel
It is
devout ether
(it isnt)
opal lodge
i like hades
and achilles
both are pretty user friendly if you don't like how punishing GY feels
fast shore
yeah its pretty punishing, tried a couple runs and with GY its been the closest ive been to dying to hades in a while
primal hazel
Makes the game close and exciting
Try building crit around charged skewer or serrated point
Although serrated is riskier
potent kayak
if you like living on the edge
then its good my friend
but its always down to preference i guess
worn folio
Does anyone know how long the Empowering Flight buff lasts?
because it feels like I can't really make use of it using charged attacks
primal hazel
Doesn't it say two attacks?
Or am I confusing hammers
?
Remind me which one was it again lol
gray shore
anyone got any preferences for spear runs? trying to use guan yu aspect but dang the 50% hp drain does not feel like its worth it
It is
(it isnt)
Can we pin this somewhere so we never have to talk about this again?
:)
primal hazel
worn folio
@primal hazel yeah it does but the visual effect stops after a little while so I was confused
amber kindle
Holy wow, I got the Aphro/Ares duo boon and it works so good with the sword for me. Can anyone suggest something to help with the build?
Attack Doom, Special Weak
primal hazel
Feels like scuffed ME honestly
midnight scaffold
does ME instantly detonate doom?
primal hazel
That the whole point
midnight scaffold
that's really cool
midnight scaffold
then is chaos shield ares/zeus or ares/athena better
primal hazel
Ares special honestly
If you can get it with the stacks you can apply 6, dash reapply
But chaos is not the best for ME imo
I prefer zeus
devout ether
aspect of zeus i think
still vigil
if you wanted to play a melee build where yer shredding health instead of chunkin it, what would you recommend?
primal hazel
No
Zeus special
midnight scaffold
ahh zeus special
devout ether
if you wanted to play a melee build where yer shredding health instead of chunkin it, what would you recommend?
@still vigil Isnt Malphon exactly this
midnight scaffold
and ares attack?
fiery lotus
hi i am new
fiery lotus
is there a picture guide for the build？
primal hazel
There's a lot of spoilers here
midnight scaffold
Imma just repost my chaos build
yeah that'd be much easier to explain
still vigil
ehhhh @devout ether only 2/4 aspects i might consider it bein fast chippin
devout ether
is there a picture guide for the build？
@fiery lotus for.... what build?
primal hazel
Chaos: Ares Attack/Demeter Attack, Zeus Special,Jolted, ideally Splitting Bolt, ideally Divine Dash or something to enable Privilege Status if you don't have Jolted
devout ether
The general guide is just play the game and dont worry about this channel until you're twenty hours in
still vigil
i wanted to compound upon that
primal hazel
There's one pinned in #h1-for-new-players
Just build ME with fists
Or crit with demeter aspect
devout ether
i wanted to compound upon that
@still vigil Well, do you consider chiron special to be "shredding"?
still vigil
ME cant be the answer to everything XD
primal hazel
With athena dash and ares attack you can just endlessly trigger doom
still vigil
i would
still estuary
One message removed from a suspended account.
devout ether
Eris shreds in chunks though 
still vigil
need damage? ME
wanna kill quickly? ME
need cash now? ME
midnight scaffold
@primal hazel from what i understand, your chaos aspect build revolves around zeus special and privilege status, right?
primal hazel
Yes
midnight scaffold
ty
primal hazel
Well ME doesn't work on everything but most
Or play Eris with zeus attack build and support fire
Rocket and cluster bomb hammer
Maybe demeter for jolt duo
frank dew
dont really need the duo to keep jolted up id rather go aphrodite special and go smoldering air
still vigil
if yer applyin jolted at a fast rate why would you need cold fusion
primal hazel
Cold fusion is worth it with jolted
pearl imp
is Stygian Soul or Infernal Soul better for the Beowulf shield?
devout ether
Infernal, unless explicitly trippy flare but even then still probably infernal
midnight scaffold
@primal hazel do you have any other fun builds i could try?
magic stone
Any aspect of Gilgamesh builds?
midnight scaffold
could i have the whole thing
primal hazel
Gilgamesh aphro ,artemis,dio, athena.
PS with 2 debuffs. and debuffs must be applyed befor you use miam, Heart rend,clean kill,rusthless reflex,Sweet Surrender
ideal setup :Athena attack,Aphro special,artemis cast
magic stone
Oh okay
pearl imp
Ah, ty
magic stone
With Gilgamesh which keepsake should I start with?
Actually probably Athena that’s a dumb question
primal hazel
Always start with the keepsake that gives you the core boons for you build
still vigil
if yer feelin spicy use demeter with aphro on gilga
magic stone
Demeter attack?
primal hazel
You'll know it when you'll know it
magic stone
Ok
still vigil
i think this is one the instances id actually use their duo
still vigil
it's not
but if ya wanted to play around with the cast, i dun think aphro/dem could be that bad with gilga
primal hazel
It's free continuous damage
And you don't need to go out of your way to apply in a zeus build
carmine island
Is Zeus + Dem considered a boomer build?
still vigil
oop
primal hazel
Zag sword
magic stone
Except Zag
primal hazel
But worst doesn't mean unusable
magic stone
Since that’s kinda obvious
primal hazel
Hades has actually gotten better since @mighty ermine 's discoveries
magic stone
What did they discover?
primal hazel
Spin dashes actually retain some of your i frames
magic stone
I have no idea what retaining frames means
primal hazel
I frames are INVINCIBILITY frames
magic stone
Oh
primal hazel
When you dash you become invulnerable
And when you dash out of a spin charge you apparently don't lose em
magic stone
Still kinda bad tho
magic stone
Best spear is easily Achilles
mighty ermine
Hades aspect is far from bad
primal hazel
Well I dislike it but tail is prolly one of the best players in here
still vigil
it's not bad if yer dash with an aoe the size of a nuke bomb
magic stone
Hades aspect would be way better if spin did more damage in punishing
opal lodge
hades aspect is actually good
cant believe im on here defending hades aspect smh
watching tailesque high heat youtube indoctrinated me
still vigil
tail im comin fer yr crown
mighty ermine
Lol
still vigil
60 heat with hades here i come
opal lodge
tailesque can you clear 50 with super soaker so we can say lucifer is good
primal hazel
Nothing in hades really is
magic stone
Bruh yall clearing 50 I’m struggling to do 32 :(
mighty ermine
And then get some bad hammers in that run too so we can say the hammers are good 
still vigil
use rama @magic stone and call it a day
still vigil
but ya wont be strugglin so 🤷🏿♂️
magic stone
Well what heats do I do?
still vigil
cause rama got dem deeps
magic stone
What will make it the easiest?
mighty ermine
Maybe Eris for ease of use at 32?
still vigil
if ya get cluster and rocket on eris its gg
magic stone
I only tried Achilles in 32
mighty ermine
As long as you remember to boost yourself regularly, eris can work with pretty much anything
But lightning strike and tidal dash makes killing things very easy
magic stone
Making 32 heat is hard
still vigil
i prefer poseidon on cluster rocket, but the consensus is arty on special is better
magic stone
Eh I’ll go Antos
magic stone
Eris with Zeus attack?
mighty ermine
Yeah
primal hazel
What I wrote before
magic stone
I guess Battie is better
primal hazel
But battie is harder
primal hazel
I really like anthos tho
still vigil
ive made that a personal goal to clear 32 with gilga and im hurtin qwq
primal hazel
Also a good option
magic stone
God I’m still struggling on what heats to turn up
primal hazel
Don't use AS
primal hazel
Sry RS
magic stone
Yeah I’d never go for that
Tight deadline, damage control, forced overtime, extreme measures and the top three are the ones I have on
Any more? So I can max it
still vigil
you...use tight deadline?
magic stone
Yes?
mighty ermine
You mean HS? Or RI?
still vigil
im too afraid of times to put it on
magic stone
Eh true
mighty ermine
yeah it's good to get used to TD
primal hazel
TD 1 us free
magic stone
Yeah I use one use
primal hazel
So is Em1, 2 and I'd even argue 3
magic stone
I might turn it off since I might wanna go slow
BP?
Should I turn on BP?
Only once I usually do it
primal hazel
It's not too horrible imo
untold iris
BP2 is usually pretty easy imo
primal hazel
I like it it's fun
untold iris
its a lot of heat and unless you rng into the perfect combination that screws you its usually not bad
still vigil
but im also the one who puts on HL4, JS3, and MM
untold iris
MM is also pretty free-ish
primal hazel
Tf is hl
devout ether
MM is also pretty free-ish
@untold iris Big disagree
untold iris
or at least its less difficult than most options because its 2 heat and only affects like one or two rooms every biome
still vigil
and BP2
primal hazel
MM is free as long as you don't have EM4
magic stone
Should I have high lasting consequences?
still vigil
why i put on BP2 idunno
untold iris
the only MM miniboss that I think is considerably harder with MM on is the megagorgon
magic stone
I do EM3 for all high heat runs
still vigil
MM is free as long as you don't have EM4
@primal hazel ahaha....id never do that... 😅
untold iris
I would recommend not taking EM4 or FO if you're just trying to clear 32 heat one time
devout ether
Empowered Skull-gem thing is quite the party pooper in EM4
primal hazel
Yeah but as I said...
still vigil
proceeds to always die at 32 heat hades cause of HL4, MM, BP2, FO and EM4
ripe glade
in the Trial of the Gods.. does it make a difference which God you choose first?...
ripe glade
k.. so if I go critical.. I'll end up going for a crit build.. or doom to proceed with doom based build?
ripe glade
ah ok.. so the game won't try to steer me in a certain direction?
primal hazel
But you won't get duos
magic stone
That’s why it’s so good
still vigil
unless
magic stone
Yeah no duos.
primal hazel
No not unless
ripe glade
ah ok.. got their duo already
or got one of them anyways
thanks guys.. [insert a thumbs up here, cause yall awesome]
magic stone
Yee
primal hazel
ripe glade
goodluck on that 😄
still vigil
@primal hazel how dare you
primal hazel
It's alright
cursive marten
no
still vigil
i do wonder if ya can get duos from trials but
primal hazel
No
still vigil
but
primal hazel
No
still vigil
there could be an exception tho
primal hazel
No
still vigil
tch
primal hazel
magic stone
I’m doing 32 heat. It’s going decently so far
rapid rose
So which gods is Guan Yu best with
magic stone
Artemis in my experience
primal hazel
Classic crit build
devout ether
So which gods is Guan Yu best with
@rapid rose With Daedalus
primal hazel
Serrated or charged skewerer
magic stone
I’m going into asphodel what should I switch my Zeus keepsake into?
primal hazel
Ye that's not accreate
Hammers are really important on gy
rapid rose
Artemis for the attack and whom for the special
magic stone
I’m using Eris
primal hazel
What gods do you have so far?
primal hazel
Yeah
primal hazel
Athena
rapid rose
What gods do you have so far?
@primal hazel all
magic stone
K I’ll go Artemis
rapid rose
Oh i'm now going to start it
primal hazel
Artemis special if you're going skewer
Attack if you're going serrated
Other slot aphro
Aim for heart rend
rapid rose
Okay thanks!
still vigil
it could be good
opal lodge
wait no this merciful end on lucifer is unironically good
rapid rose
An Athena dash would be good with as well?
opal lodge
just takes a lot of setup like most ME builds LOL
primal hazel
Idk m8
Most ME build just need attack, flourish, duo and athena dash
magic stone
Okay heading to elysium what should I get now?
cunning urchin
Well, that's way more setup than you need for Eris lol.
opal lodge
i know i was just curious about how the divine bombs would interact with it
cunning urchin
What's the build and stuff? I haven't been following at all.
magic stone
I can send you a photo
cunning urchin
You can't force a god a second time with a keepsake. You only have 1 charge.
opal lodge
eris with zeus athena and artemis in pool is what i see
cunning urchin
Ah okay I see it.
magic stone
Yee
cunning urchin
@magic stone take Acorn for the rest of the run.
magic stone
Ok ok good plan
cunning urchin
Pick up some Centaur Hearts along the way.
Definitely see Patroclus if you can.
And make sure you take any chamber from Lady Athena, revive with your SD before you pick up her boon, and try to get any of her Deathless Stand or Last Stand to get an extra DD from her.
turbid needle
Does crit chance stack additively or multiplicatively?
cunning urchin
Additively.
magic stone
Okay in hades area do I go for boss rooms or the normal ones
turbid needle
@magic stone I find bosses a bit more consistent, big rooms can get out of hand
magic stone
True I’ll go for that
hallow lava
I almost beat the game with guan yu and high confidence 😭
cursive marten
Athena Dash >
devout ether
Miniboss styx rooms are easier than regular rooms, quote me on that
still vigil
tiny vermin enters the chat
Memes
keen hazel
Okay in hades area do I go for boss rooms or the normal ones
@magic stone I generally do boss rooms first if only bc to get them out of the way first
magic stone
Yeah I did that xD
keen hazel
TV isnt as scary as the boss satyr
cursive marten
you really don't need to clear all the tunnels
primal hazel
If you enough companion charges the boss rooms are ok
magic stone
Wish me luck
primal hazel
Mini boss
magic stone
Yeah I saved up my companion for it
cursive marten
I just get what i need and slay daddy
primal hazel
you really don't need to clear all the tunnels
@cursive marten also this
And also that
keen hazel
i dont think anyones advocating for full clears lol
primal hazel
There are people
devout ether
i dont think anyones advocating for full clears lol
@keen hazel But muh pom blossom
primal hazel
^
random hull
Full clears offer plenty of gold, too.
keen hazel
For sure there's reasons to do more from time to time
primal hazel
But that's only important for getting bounty stuff
primal hazel
Usually your build should be done by styx
devout ether
Predictable
cunning urchin
I almost beat the game with guan yu and high confidence 😭
@hallow lava you can do it!
magic stone
Ok
primal hazel
I won't sleep unless you clear
cursive marten
sisyphus is just jealous of meg and than and i
primal hazel
magic stone
I’ll try again with 32 heat tomorrow
keen hazel
im a one maid man so i went for dusa only
cursive marten
and got ||friendzoned||
primal hazel
Bouldy only
keen hazel
||im still holding out hope||
cursive marten
||Dusa is dad's concubine||
devout ether
and got ||friendzoned||
@cursive marten ;____;
keen hazel
||dads on a huge losing streak since ive been on my farming runs so he aint lookin so hot||
magic stone
Hades has huge hitboxes I hate it
devout ether
Just gotta dash out of 'em
mellow quest
get movement increases; move speed, dahses, hyper sprint, whatever. it goes a long way in general and especially so in the Hades fight
keen hazel
just do gilga plus lambent and you never have to leave them
cunning urchin
What attacks specifically are giving you trouble?
mellow quest
buy any ichor you see in styx wells. it's really cheap even with CF2.
devout ether
It has a huge tell, just dash away when you see it coming. Dont press any attack buttons
cunning urchin
Phase 1 or phase 2?
devout ether
Unless you have FO on
magic stone
Phase 2
devout ether
or Em4 I guess
mellow quest
even with FO2 EM4 you get a decent telegraph of the spin
cunning urchin
He always dashes three times before the spin in phase 2.
mellow quest
it's just massive
cunning urchin
Don't try to "dash away," anyway. Just time your dash to i-frame it.
It's scary at first, but it's actually not that difficult to do.
You just gotta practice it. Eventually, it's second nature, and you'll be a lot more confident in the fight.
mellow quest
the thing giving me trouble is the em4 spear throw snipes
cunning urchin
Try to i-frame with your first dash, and just do your second dash afterwards as a safety net.
That way, you can still time your second dash to avoid shockwaves from skulls for example—and you don't panic-dash too early and get stuck on CD.
royal helm
Full clearing does have ... some reason/logic behind it... like you can find a Well of Charon for a Death defied, if you're not confident
primal hazel
As we said
Why do I never seem to get rocket when playing eris but always when playing hestia
cursive marten
Whichever
primal hazel
Are you playing on switch?
cursive marten
nope
primal hazel
keen hazel
You gotta have three prereq boons to get it in the first place then hope for more revenge boons. Not very efficient
primal hazel
It's fun
But idk bout it's effectiveness
stark ore
calm sandal
Wait dodge stacks additively lmao
still vigil
did i build ME wrong cause I dont really feel much of a damage increase if at all
calm sandal
Just fought hades without trying to doge his attacks and didn't get hit once
still vigil
i have doom on attack, divine flourish and divine dash
primal hazel
Hold down attack
Constantly dash
You need to hit thee any with dash
It instantly triggers doom so you can reapply
Skyrockets dps
Also works well with zeus shield
mellow quest
You need impending doom to really pop off merciful end.
formal ridge
whats so good about aspect of eris that speedrunners use it so much
pliant anvil
the massive damage buff
still vigil
that 75% dmg boost
pliant anvil
it scales zeus (for example) which normally only scales with poms
mellow quest
75% global damage and an extremely busted hammer combo in cluster bomb + rocket bomb
pliant anvil
(and stuff like family favorite)
formal ridge
yeah but 75% dmg boost isnt much if ur base dmg is 10
primal hazel
75% GLOBAL damage boost
still vigil
it applies to everything
pliant anvil
right, but with zeus adding another minimum of 10, it's a very strong start for 36 damage out of the gate
and yeah, then cluster + rocket for insanity
formal ridge
yeah zeus with gun is cool
my first clear was with that
being so reliant on zeus means u always want to start with the zeus keepsake right
pliant anvil
yeah
still vigil
im holding dash + atk down on gilga but it feels more or less the same like me using aphro
pliant anvil
since you can't really force hammers to start with and can't reroll hammers sadly
mellow quest
Basically; it trivializes Tartarus, the hardest part of high heat, with Zeus attack. And it pivots into huge special output once lightning falls off a little. But even then, splitting bolt is a thing
and your 75% damage boost on splitting bolt hits is just dumb
pliant anvil
^
splitting bolt like, doubles your attack damage depending on poms and how you used them
formal ridge
im just leveling my keepsakes with stygius right now
primal hazel
Oh yeah
How splitting bolt doesn't interact with attack right?
mellow quest
it does.
primal hazel
No wait
mellow quest
every single shot procs a bolt.
formal ridge
10 heat is still trivial although the only pact im using is 4x extreme measures
primal hazel
What was splitting again
pliant anvil
it does, it just doesn't scale off +attack damage
primal hazel
Confused it with double strike
formal ridge
i think it makes lightning bolts make another bolt
pliant anvil
it's the one that spawns a lightnign ball
mellow quest
splitting bolt is the Zeus legendary
formal ridge
when it hits
formal ridge
ye
still vigil
oh nvm @primal hazel gg this hits like a truck on gilga
mellow quest
the lightning balls hit for 40 base damage. another 30 from just being Eris. throw n all your other global damage modifiers and potentially the targeting system debuff
cursive marten
@primal hazel I'm going Beo now. How do you personally build it?
I'll go Lucifer next.
rigid zodiac
hi im a noob i just unlocked the Aspects system, any advice on how to best spend my titan blood?
cursive marten
What's your playstyle
primal hazel
Sec
rigid zodiac
i like melee but i always use the weapon that has the +20% loot bonus
cunning urchin
Stygian Soul + Trippy Flare on Beowulf.
rigid zodiac
sword, shield, spear, fists.. all fun
primal hazel
Beowulf build: (rush divery on all) Heartbreak Strike, Heartbreak Flourish, Passion Flare, Divine Dash, Zeus' Aid, Smoldering Air. Make sure you use Infernal Soul, charged flight hammer
cunning urchin
Aim for Fully Loaded or Mirage Shot after that.
primal hazel
Or trippy with stygian yeah
cunning urchin
Not even citing me for my build smh.
cursive marten
ty both
rigid zodiac
is there a point to upgrading the unlocked/free aspect? or better to spend my titan blood on the 1blood or 2blood aspects ;x
unkempt pagoda
some are pretty good
mellow quest
Beowulf is the only shield I've been able to consistently beat td3 with
primal hazel
Fists
Nothing else
unkempt pagoda
zagbow is probably the most bang for your buck, but zagshield and zagfists are also popular
cunning urchin
2 blood aspects?
primal hazel
He means unlock cost
unkempt pagoda
you need zagsword for a side quest anyways, so
primal hazel
Prolly doesn't know that it scales
cunning urchin
Zag Aspects require 5 Titan Blood to max. 2nd and 4th aspects require 15. 3rd aspects require 16.
primal hazel
Imagine the gaming forcing you to upgrade the worst aspects
unkempt pagoda
i mean, it doesn't force you lol
cunning urchin
I think just spend Titan Blood on anything that looks fun is the best idea.
rigid zodiac
i just dont know how to approach this... unlock everything randomly? focus one weapon? focus one aspect per weapon?
cunning urchin
Being stuck with an aspect that's strong but no fun kinda sucks.
unkempt pagoda
if you like it and have fun with it, go for it
mellow quest
There are a couple one point wonders
rigid zodiac
ive got 12 titan blood i havent used a single one 😄
cunning urchin
Hmmm.
mellow quest
Like, nemesis sword and hera bow are still really good at level 1.
cunning urchin
Zag Bow and Zag Fists are good aspects that you can easily max for just 5 Titan Blood each.
unkempt pagoda
here's a trick: you spend blood, immediately go into an escape attempt to test it out, and if you don't like it, you can press Give Up in the menu and it'll take you back to before you spent the blood
mellow quest
They don't need to be maxed to have fun with
cunning urchin
And those will help you get more Titan Blood faster.
unkempt pagoda
it's your unofficial refund button
mellow quest
Zag fists are a good one to max out early
cunning urchin
I definitely did that once or twice when starting out lol.
rigid zodiac
i like the fists, ill max em
i hate the bow, ill check what the aspect does, maybe i wont hate it afterwards
and you said 1 point in nemesis sword?
i can do all of that and have 1 blood left :)D
unique spire
You are opposite me
unkempt pagoda
(and also like, who cares about save scumming, it's a single-player game lol)
cunning urchin
I actually just Alt+F4d like 10 seconds after spending Titan Blood on Zeus Aspect, trying it on Skelly and feeling like "omg this sucks ".
Although I have all the aspects maxed now lol.
I also took Zeus Aspect on exactly 2 runs in 600+ hours in the game. 
It's not for me.
rigid zodiac
ah zag bow is just a bunch of base crit, sounds good
cunning urchin
Yeah, it's really nice.
Basically, the way you wanna play Zag bow is just spam Dash-Strike Power Shots.
With Deadly Strike or Heartbreak Strike and ideally Hunter Dash for extra damage or Divine Dash for safety.
Lots of good Attack hammers for it, too, so you really wanna prioritize any hammers that you see.
mellow quest
Even if you whif attack hammers, you can get charged volley on zag and hera
rigid zodiac
i always go for hammer no matter what im doing ;x
and umm i never did a cast build, i always keep the base cast and use it for the damage bonus from mirror. solid strat?
mellow quest
Cast builds aren't for everyone. I only really do them on Hera and Beowulf
cunning urchin
Hmmm for most runs, I ignore cast boons unless it's Phalanx Shot, True Shot, or Electric Shot.
magic stone
Achilles cast builds are mwah
mellow quest
Phalanx shot is the one I pick up most on melee weapons ever since Nya pointed out how good it is for engaging
cunning urchin
I guess Flood Shot, too.
Phalanx Shot is from Lady Athena, yeah.
You just throw it at a crowd or enemy and dash behind it. It'll just deflect everything in front of you lol.
rigid zodiac
i saw the thing that lasers, the lightning that ricochets and the grenade that farts
cunning urchin
. . .
mellow quest
Grenade that farts is a great way to describe festive fog.
rigid zodiac
none of those recommended unless focusing on cast build?
mellow quest
Electric shot is pretty good in Tartarus and Asphodel but it doesn't scale up well on its own
cunning urchin
Damage on your cast doesn't matter if you're not doing a cast build.
mellow quest
Even on Achilles with 150% damage boosted casts you gotta supplement its damage
cunning urchin
You're just throwing it for Boiling Blood, anyway.
Or for Deflect in the case of Phalanx Shot.
cursive marten
Hera is strong but I no longer have fun with it lol
cunning urchin
Electric Shot has the advantage that you can just throw it at a wall or something when running away and it will stun something behind you after the bounce lol.
still vigil
imagine getting Em4 down to 15% of last hp bar, dying, then remembering you couldve used a companion to finish him off
cursive marten
I love using it against the || satyrs||
Swift Strike or Greater Haste with Beo?
I'm personally thinking SS but
rigid zodiac
hmmm started fists run and immediatelly got hammer... conc knucle or long knuckle?
cunning urchin
What's the third offer?
rigid zodiac
flying cutter ;x
cursive marten
Which fists, bull?
rigid zodiac
zag fist maxxed
cunning urchin
Swift Strike or Greater Haste with Beo?
What's offer #3? Do you have any rerolls?
cursive marten
Long Knuckle is great on fists but I 90% of the time use Demfists
Offer 3 is Quick Recovery.
I rarely take it.
cunning urchin
@rigid zodiac Long Knuckle, yeah.
rigid zodiac
cool its on my fated thing too ty
mellow quest
Long knuckle isn't the biggest damage boost but the range is sooooo good.
cunning urchin
@cursive marten reroll for Greatest Reflex.
cursive marten
yes
rigid zodiac
lmao this thing is like a spear now
cursive marten
got it lol
cunning urchin
Oh if you're still working your prophecies, just go with those options to get those rewards.
rigid zodiac
yeah i try to do that as often as i can
cunning urchin
Always good to get a feel for all the hammer upgrades and boons and everything, too.
rigid zodiac
im working on everything.. i unlocked the hwole mirror, got 4k darkness only though
mellow quest
Just because we tell you quake cutter is bad doesn't mean you shouldn't experience that for yourself
cunning urchin
My favorite build on Malphon, by the way, is starting with the Owl Pendant to get Divine Strike.
still vigil
starting off run, epic aphro atk or epic life affirmation?
cunning urchin
Attack.
still vigil
using gilga again
mellow quest
Hp is cool but so is not passing an epic attack boon on fists
still vigil
ty nyaa
cursive marten
And then stacking the chill debuffs like decay and more slow and 10 chill = boom
cunning urchin
I just did 32 with Guan Yu and High Confidence. What's HP?
still vigil
you have this thing called skill
still vigil
i dun have that
cunning urchin
Technically his Chariot hit me twice and one spin hit me once.
mellow quest
It's the thing Amir thinks you need more of with lasting consequences 4. So here's demeter to offer you nourished soul
ripe glade
Does taking a Trove count as an Encounter?
mellow quest
No
ripe glade
k
magic stone
Aphro
mellow quest
Passion flare
magic stone
And Dio cast
cursive marten
i mean
magic stone
Aphro is passion flare yee
cursive marten
dash dash dash attack or bull rush into cast
magic stone
Just spam bull rush cast
cursive marten
already have it
mellow quest
Especially now that the pom scaling on passion shot/flare is busted again
cursive marten
lol
magic stone
For Aphro you pick it up I believe
cursive marten
aphro is always busted
mellow quest
You want infernal soul on passion flare
Big burst and you can just pick the stones up at the end of a rush
cursive marten
I have no clue how i'm going to beat Dad with this, nonetheless Best Bull and Wonderboy
Theseus and Asterius are dead.
okay but I'm toast against ||hades||
midnight scaffold
i believe in you
midnight scaffold
i think you can still dash through with your iframes
devout ether
You can still dash through them just fine
cursive marten
oh okay
devout ether
Just.... don't dawdle
cursive marten
this is a lot easier than i thought
midnight scaffold
yeah not that hard with a portable wall
devout ether
You can block the skull shockwaves btw
languid dagger
tried doing Aspect of Zeus full Lightning build, this time got really lucky with boons
Definition of a cookie cutter build
devout ether
Take that to victory boasting, m8
calm sandal
Rail feels so bad on m&k
languid dagger
@devout ether wrong channel huh
midnight scaffold
yup
languid dagger
sorry
calm sandal
Why don't the bullets go to where you point
My dps drops by like a sollid 40% because of it
midnight scaffold
it works fine for me
languid dagger
removed videos, left just build
willow fossil
proven osprey
cunning urchin
lol nice.
midnight scaffold
wait why's the number so big
still vigil
prrob chaos
midnight scaffold
ohh right
unkempt pagoda
stonks.
calm sandal
How do you put images?
unkempt pagoda
upload elsewhere and paste the link here
calm sandal
ah
ty
https://imgur.com/a/oRHuV8K
I am aiming at skelly's feet in this pic
Hold on imgur broke
calm sandal
proven osprey
nice aim buddy
calm sandal
I thought I was just terrible at aiming, but apparently on PC at least the gun goes above your cursor
Thats lucifer, which Im pretty sure is 100% accurate
devout ether
Ah
calm sandal
Idk what that is, I have attack at Cursor on
midnight scaffold
the one setting that autoaims if your cursor is close enough to an enemy
calm sandal
except if I move my mouse cursor up the beam also moves up
and off of skelly if I aim at his head
midnight scaffold
that's weird then
calm sandal
Its not the end of the world since I can turn on aim assist, but its kind of wierd thats a thing at all
Get rare zeus attack, trade it for epic Dio attack with next boon, then trade that dio attack for Heroic Zues attack in tartarus chamber 5
Stonks
devout ether
Wait, that's illegal
fossil compass
does marked special effect only work for 1 crit?
calm sandal
Yes
fossil compass
I seem to observe that once a crit is done to a marked foe, the marked goes away even though it's way less than 6s