yeah i was attacking too of course
#h1-builds-and-combat
potent kayak
primal hazel
Pick em up
frank dew
well the cast comes back in like 2 sec if you get the hermes boon
solid hazel
You talking about stygian soul with auto reload?
I mean even then you probably do at least one attack with cast and one without
frank dew
yeah ofc you do but the cast dmg will still be the major part
i never said it was ALL about cast i said it was mostly about it
potent kayak
^
solid hazel
It depends...I mea to if your cast does double the damage of the attack, but you only shoot cast 1/2 time, half your damage is attack
frank dew
you casts will be significantly more than doubble the attack dmg generally
solid hazel
Depend how you build it... If hera has no innate +cast damage
So say Dio cast does 100 base, perfect shot on attack does 75 without any attack boon
frank dew
yes but you dont load 1 dio cast
solid hazel
But you will get an attack boon presumably
primal hazel
Idk who you're trying to prove something to
frank dew
you either load 3+ or you spread them in wich case you dont attack without the cast as much
frank dew
twin shot in general is prolly one of the best hammers for rama and the regular
primal hazel
I'm talking bout hera
potent kayak
twin shot is good yes
solid hazel
I just am not convinced by the arguments you guys are making... I thought we were supposed to discuss builds
Honestly if it's annoying that's fine. I don't need to discuss
potent kayak
if you wanna give range for damage which is perfectly fine
potent kayak
How am i arguing
primal hazel
Just not my favourite
solid hazel
I was responding to before
solid hazel
Didn't see your message before I was typing out
frank dew
well then seems we are all in agreement then 😛
primal hazel
Nice save
solid hazel
I still think it is good even on hera... But it's too much of a pain to type out math on my phone...
potent kayak
ive hardly said anything and yes im in agreement too your points are all valid Nate! 
frank dew
its prolly one of the better ones for hera anyway cause not really any benefits for the casts on the other hammers
not that you need to take the hammers but they do tend to keep appearing if you dont
solid hazel
I mean the other way you can build hera is special as the secondary for when you don't have cast
So like something like Dio with relentless volley
But not my preferred either... But it's probably good too
potent kayak
that sounds good but i prefer the cast too
solid hazel
Ares special is great for clearing mobs with bow special and Athena special is amazing projectile defense
Makes witches coven trivial
potent kayak
does that make the q reflect
solid hazel
Yeah
frank dew
yeh it does
potent kayak
i think i had that yeah its very good for projectiles especially against them annoying witches
frank dew
it does have its uses but those are more towards utility
the doom thing is very valid tho
solid hazel
Agreed, it's not your main damage
Only other really viable use i know is Dio shotgunning, but that's basically worse chiron
frank dew
well you could also go zeus and invest in large bolts and double strike
surreal pumice
who triggers the Beowulf awakening dialogue
frank dew
poseidon could also be used to keep mobs away from you i suppose
solid hazel
I guess yeah... Doesn't so awesome
who triggers the Beowulf awakening dialogue
@surreal pumice I don't remember but story and spoilers channel hsd all the aspects in pinned messages
surreal pumice
oh yeah
magic stone
Chaos.
surreal pumice
bruh
frank dew
in general i just love jolted so im abit biased towards those
surreal pumice
time to clear again to get 2 blood
magic stone
Why does Beowulf have a shield in the game?
I thought he didn’t have a shield right?
solid hazel
I have no idea actually... @primal hazel
frank dew
it does but if you reapply the doom it starts on the new stack
and evry tick of it halfs the dmg if you leave it alone
primal hazel
Well guess I'll potentially thwart my run by trying it
So it's not that effective ig
?
frank dew
no
primal hazel
Guess I'll won't take it then
solid hazel
So does it add 12 damage, refreshes the buff, or refreshes the buff and add 12 damage
surreal pumice
time to build gilga
frank dew
refreshes the buff and then if you attack again it applies 12 dmg
opal lodge
dire misfortune is never that good tbh unless you have a multi hit doom appication
primal hazel
Guess it's actually nice for gilgamesh with ps
opal lodge
even then impending is probably still better
frank dew
impending is always better
surreal pumice
Is zeus good on gilga at all
primal hazel
I'm running dire misfortune on chiron m8
It's alright
It's worse then on other fists
Cause slowerr attack rate
opal lodge
chiron is multi hit
surreal pumice
lol
opal lodge
so probably still fine
primal hazel
Zeus is usually good on weapons with low damage
opal lodge
fists dire misfortune doesnt actually end up mattering once you get merciful end
primal hazel
Since it adds base damage and no percentile
opal lodge
because you usually activate the doom befoer you stack more than 2-3
solid hazel
@viral epoch Okay if I understand correctly if the stack is not at 100% it only refreshes... If it is at 100% it adds 12 damage
So it's almost useless haha
frank dew
yeh basically
frank dew
i made a suggestion on the curse of longing cause honestly its just bad
frank dew
like you have to invest either special or attack for it and then theres this boon where you would benefit if you dont apply it
but you still loose dmg by not applying it anyway
like if you have the revenge zeus duo it works i guess but to make that work you need like 4 boons already
outer cave
best build for the fists?
frank dew
depends on the aspect
solid hazel
Try something like Zeus attack and aphro special
outer cave
easiest to build and win
primal hazel
Best is always an iffy word
potent kayak
what is best to build with talos?
outer cave
im just trying to farm up the resources at the varying heat levels
solid hazel
Go for smoldering air or a bunch of Zeus synergies
primal hazel
Demeter with Aphrodite attack with legendary, artemis crit special, heart rend|ME
Or you build fist with me
Or zeus attack, long knuckle, support fire
ME is prolly the most brainless I'd say
solid hazel
ME is for sure strongest once you get it, but harder to build... Exactly why I asked what he meant by best haha
solid hazel
And like it's straight up trash until you actually get ME
primal hazel
Well that's the problem yeah
solid hazel
Wandering around with curse of agony... On fists haha
primal hazel
But after that you've won
primal hazel
I'd rather demeter special and zeus attavk
solid hazel
Is curse of agony good on fists... The fact that it does nothing for like 75% of your attacks seems bad
primal hazel
With legendary and blast
frank dew
if you build the ME it works very well nate
primal hazel
You can also play for special
solid hazel
Yeah we were talking about before you get ME
primal hazel
Ares
opal lodge
the point is not to punch one target one billion times
frank dew
well even with that in mind the doom hits for like 3-4 attacks anyway
opal lodge
you go and punch everything in the room once
potent kayak
ive got the choice of ares or dio with talos which would you say is better
primal hazel
No
solid hazel
I mean anything works tarturus I suppose...doesnt mean if call it good
frank dew
no it shouldnt
solid hazel
No only base attack and cast damage
primal hazel
Don't have it in my head
Only used talos once lol
solid hazel
Lightning, doom and hangover don't benefit except from things that affect all damage
frank dew
you can still use it just fine to just get abit more dmg there while you pull them in
primal hazel
Also dumb question
But doom is reverse of hangover in damage application right?
potent kayak
okay no worries
opal lodge
ive beaten 36 heat with fists and have a sub9 time with them running curse of agony in both cases
curse of agony does fine damage either way
primal hazel
The thing I hit with first is the doom damage u till doom apllied
That's what I meant by reverse
solid hazel
Don't you need to apply it multiple times to most enemies in asphodel and Elysium though?
That seems kinda unoptimal
frank dew
you need to hit most mobs more than once with a % boon aswell so it evens out
solid hazel
Mmhm okay... I can see it being decent then
primal hazel
Still worse then ME ig
frank dew
theres always going to be weaker and stronger builds
frank dew
i think they have done well to make the weapons varied in terms of builds even if theres obvious overlap
outer cave
whats ME?
frank dew
Merciful end
primal hazel
I dunno who you're telling that lol
Nice dire misfortune and impending doom on chiron
Already hitting 500 doom dmg
solid hazel
I thought he didn’t have a shield right?
@magic stone it's been a long time... But I think beowulf had an iron shield against the dragon he died against
That was different from Grendal who he killed earlier in thr story
Either way he lost his sword in both encounters...swords did not work out well for him
solid hazel
Also apparently the dragon doesn't get a name hah
Poor dragon, nobody views him as an individual, but everybody likes Grendal
frank dew
monsters are so misunderstood
solid hazel
Maybe they wouldn't eat us if we just treated them with love and respect
potent kayak
whats thunder flourish like with talos
frank dew
not very useful
solid hazel
I'm gon a go with ehh
potent kayak
ah
solid hazel
Honestly never tried it, but it sounds bad
I doubt it would activate more than once even though you hit 3 rines
potent kayak
it probably is, its that lightning strike or zeus aid
frank dew
you would most likely want a debuff application on your special
tho i guess it could apply jolted
potent kayak
ive got curse of pain atm
solid hazel
That's a lot better imo
frank dew
zeus aid is very good so id go with that
solid hazel
Lightning strike would be my pick
potent kayak
okay thank you and im so bad when it comes to choosing the right boons and stuff
solid hazel
With a few levels it's like 130% attack damage
potent kayak
i know the just but i feel like i sometimes make the worst choices
solid hazel
Compare with aphro at similar is only around 100%
potent kayak
true
hearty elbow
okay thank you and im so bad when it comes to choosing the right boons and stuff
@potent kayak It's a lot of the fun of the game. 600 hours in and I'm not close to having explored every interesting boon + aspect combo
frank dew
aphro gives the defensive bonus and opens up the CoL duo but yeh lightning strike is very nice for aoe clear
solid hazel
I had the jankiest build yesterday I aante to show off, but I lost the run lol
frank dew
just doesnt make much use of the talos dmg buff
potent kayak
haha @solid hazel what was it?
solid hazel
It was like zero synergy, just pick things that sound strong
Smoldering air, blizzard shot, Demeter aspect with the charged special hammer
Lots of strong things that did not help each other at all
solid hazel
It's base damage increase though so that means it straight multiplicative 2x
solid hazel
Way more damage tha to most hammers... But yeah I found it awkward too... I missed a lot
Then I played embarrassingly bad and lost the run haha
frank dew
i prefer the explosive special one
solid hazel
Well.. Let's just say after this week, it's not just enemies in Hades suffering from hangover
I never gave that hammer a fair chance I think @frank dew
Been planning to revisit it sometime
frank dew
well im a gilgamesh fanboi so the dash is somewhat mandatory
solid hazel
Dash upper
frank dew
yeh
frank dew
well what isnt
solid hazel
Or wait is it all special or just dash special
frank dew
just dash
frank dew
quake upper would be decent if it worked with dash and if it wasnt so damn slow in animation
solid hazel
What do you usually build on gilgamesh? My best runs have been curse of longing and curse of drowning
I tried MR once but didn't get it... I assume it's strong though
primal hazel
Sec
Gilgamesh aphro ,artemis,dio, athena.
PS with 2 debuffs. and debuffs must be applyed befor you use miam, Heart rend,clean kill,rusthless reflex,Sweet Surrender
ideal setup :Athena attack,Aphro special,artemis cast
But I'm prolly less experienced with it than demo
solid hazel
He PMd me a ME build for it
primal hazel
Creative
verbal orchid
Is there an actual use for aspect of chaos? I...don’t seem to be able to do anything with it
primal hazel
You offend me
Chaos: Ares Attack/Demeter Attack, Zeus Special,Jolted, ideally Splitting Bolt, ideally Divine Dash or something to enable Privilege Status if you don't have Jolted
Play it like a shotgun
Bull rush>special repeat
verbal orchid
I know but the bull rush just takes ungodly amounts of time to charge
verbal orchid
It feels like I could just dish out more damage if I use attacks and specials
o h
I have that same problem with the trident tbh
primal hazel
If you want to stay close range just hold it for like half a sec
It's nice to have the faster charge hammer and hermes attack boon for faster chargs
Well you don't need to charge fully
Also you can trigger a spin with dashing
Also retains some of your i frames
verbal orchid
I’ll try to remember that
Weapons like the gun and fists are more my go to
The only charge weapon I bothered with was the bow
primal hazel
Well the bow isn't necessarily a charge weapon
I still have to get into spins with spears to
Oh hell YEAH
Just had a 1.1k doom crit
outer cave
why'd hades give us the pact
primal hazel
So we can have more fun
primal hazel
It got buffed
Waiting for it on swish
potent kayak
whats the buff?
primal hazel
Idk I think magnetise damage got highrt
potent kayak
i wish doom worked with the magnetise damage
primal hazel
Would be fun
primal hazel
sweet blade
what are your most least favourite calls?
outer cave
how do i build arthur
cosmic hornet
i usually go arte attack aphro special on arthur
proven osprey
what are your most least favourite calls?
@sweet blade Demeter ares
sweet blade
most or least (sorry, I forgot to put an "and" between those in my original statement)?
surreal pumice
who here has made it to the surface playing guan yu lol
proven osprey
yeah my answer does not make senses lol
cosmic hornet
i beat the boss with special build guan yu
never touching that build again
proven osprey
So least : Demeter Ares, most : Aphrodite, Dio/Zeus
who here has made it to the surface playing guan yu lol
@surreal pumice I'm playing only GY atm
sweet blade
I'm with you with Ares being among my least favourites
I mean its basically Athena but worse since your DPS is capped by whatever the blade rift does
proven osprey
exactly
turbid needle
Ya ares aid is super disappointing
sweet blade
My most favourite are athena and hades
devout ether
Ya ares aid is super disappointing
@turbid needle It's one of three calls that make you invincible for the duration. It's alright for what it does.
outer cave
best attack for arthur?
primal hazel
Artemis/aphro
smoky horizon
recommended build(s) for ||guan yu?|| 
devout ether
Pray for charged skewer
smoky horizon
lol
surreal pumice
omg i got breaching skewer
not charged
fml
@devout ether Triple Jab, Breaching Skewer, or something something pulsing special
surreal pumice
what do i build art on lmao
primal hazel
Cast builds
surreal pumice
Exit wounds is an option
surreal pumice
artemis yes
primal hazel
Oh though you meant achilles
surreal pumice
art's boons
primal hazel
Either go charged skewer with artemis special and heart rend
Or cash strike build with hunter dash, serrated point and artemis or aphrodite attack
If you're lucky you can do both
Also breaching is nice on a charged skewer build
surreal pumice
and pray i die on the surface
primal hazel
Exactly
Are you looking for builds for a specific spear aspect?
Mine was mostly related to gy rn lol
surreal pumice
gy
I just need to die on the surface
Alecto took 30 of my 57 hp
nearly wrecking me
primal hazel
Also I try to take lots of health with gy
I wanna get to af least 150
Hope you have gy fully upgraded
Don't pay it otherwise imo
surreal pumice
oh
defeated the gorgon with only 6 hp lol
i just gave up and committed suicide by lava
primal hazel
Every hp is important
pliant anvil
well... only if demeter/dio/poseidon are in your run and you get lucky. But I agree that you should keep going with it regardless
having to play carefully with low HP is one way to get better with GY
placid topaz
maxed guan yu is really the only way to go
building around the special is pretty good but still feels a bit slow compared to some of the other weapons
split orbit
After Party or Strong Drink?
outer cave
what does strong drink do again?
split orbit
In elysium
primal hazel
So you get at least 4 boosts of not more
outer cave
16% dmg buff and 4 full heals
primal hazel
Well depends on how much life u usually use
split orbit
Just got done with the mini boss in Elysium
primal hazel
I'd say strong drink most of the times
16% dmg buff and 4 full heals
@outer cave you can get even more
From the fountains I'm the stages itself that can appear at random
outer cave
thought you could only get 1 per stage per run
primal hazel
You can get upgrades from the contractor that canet fountains appear in stages
As substitute rooms
You'll have to buy them for each individually
Well aside from styx
outer cave
ye i know but i didnt know that you could get multiple fountain rooms in 1 stage
split orbit
I think the after boss fountains count do they not?
placid topaz
if you get the fountain boon in elysium or later, take something else
primal hazel
Also it'll show the trigger
placid topaz
i'd only take the fountain boon in asphodel or earlier
outer cave
depends on how much you get hit
if you dont get hit a lot grab the strong drink
dmg buff
after party is great in styx tho
primal hazel
Eh
Strong drink still nice cause it'll make the styx fountain too you up
But after party can be a help in styx if you already have low hf
Helf
proven sierra
if i have boons affected by "Rare Crop," is it possible for Eurydice's Ambrosia Delight to roll them?
thorny dirge
Ambrosia Delight only checks if boons are upgradeable
but yeah Rare Crop can definitely hit Heroic
outer cave
ideal mirror setup+boons for arthur
ripe glade
is a level 3 common boon the same as it's Epic counterpart?
Pressure point for example.. both give me 4% crit
stark ore
With PP then maybe, but with boons with stuff like percentages or high flat damage (Most casts, Doom), then probably not
hearty elbow
is a level 3 common boon the same as it's Epic counterpart?
@ripe glade Think of rarity as a base value, and level as a static modifier.
E.g. Drunken Flourish at any rarity will get +2 from the first pom, then +1 from every pom thereafter.
Every boon has its own minimum value that it can get per Pom (usually at Level 4-5+)
devout ether
A good rule of thumb is that any common boon at level 2 will be roughly equivalent to it's rare counterpart
So poms can really help, especially early game
rare kayak
its not quite the same because you have to think about the opportunity cost
a level 3 common boon will have about the same performance as an epic boon but youve used three pom opportunities on it
hearty elbow
Some common boons are a lot better than others too. E.g. Deadly Strike and Drunken Strike/Flourish
rare kayak
in terms of absolute value its about the same though
but yea the concept of opportunity cost is really interesting when applied to hades
devout ether
a level 3 common boon will have about the same performance as an epic boon but youve used three pom opportunities on it
@rare kayak but what if the pom rooms didnt have any other choice? You're not really wasting anything then
hearty elbow
That's a pretty massive if
On average that's not how it pans out. There's also the opportunity cost of placing the Poms in something else
rare kayak
yeah
devout ether
The above comment mostly nudged in the direction that Eurydice's poms are better than the rarity boost most of the time
rare kayak
especially with how poms have diminishing returns
devout ether
Also, I only mentioned putting a single pom into a common boon btw
hearty elbow
That's true, but mostly because hitting what you want is a lot more likely with nC4 than nC2
rare kayak
the other thing about eury is that if pom upgrades hit level 3+ boons theyre more ineffective compared to a rarity boost, which will always give a fairly significant upgrade
hearty elbow
Oookay, well that's already a pretty big if in Asphodel lol.
devout ether
Kind of hard to have many 3+ level boons at asphodel though
rare kayak
true
dont get me wrong i still take pom porridge most of the time
also rarity boost can hit hermes boons which can result in very wacky things
like heroic attack speed on arthur
honestly im not entirely sure what we’re discussing about
hearty elbow
Someone asked what poms do
rare kayak
i guess i was trying to make an argument for the rarity boosters in mirror
rare kayak
duos are flashy but epic basic boons can carry you a long way too
im just very tired ok
the other thing is that duos/legendaries have very large opportunity costs attached to them
to the point where i generally only aim for one
two max
hearty elbow
Out of curiosity, to whom are you directing these words lol?
rare kayak
im just talking out loud
hearty elbow
Oh, carry on :3
rare kayak
im very tired and have no idea what current topic is so i feel like trying to visualise what my thoughts are on pride/legacy
hearty elbow
Pride will be better in most situations since it can hit Hermes boons and will give you a chance to get something on every boon offering +Persuasion reroll.
But Legacy is kind of the obvious choice if you're doing like, a Hangover build, Merciful End, Sea Storm + Splitting Bolt, etc.
rare kayak
legacy gets wacky but i should prolly swap back to pride
dunno about favor vs foresight tho
hearty elbow
Unless you are looking for something specific and build defining, I think Pride generally wins out.
Foresight is one of the best things in the mirror period atm.
rare kayak
more boons babey!!
hearty elbow
I refuse to take RI1 now for 2 heat (I'll take R12 for 4 heat though lol) not because I'm missing on rerolls, but because I lose Foresight
rare kayak
im pretty sure foresight was responsible for my previous beowulf run
370 health with only one chaos health booster (55)
no life affirmation either
i just stacked health because i was scared of beowulf’s downside and didnt notice until i was in styx
i really need to do a plume run again
cosmic hornet
the way i usually run is use pride, check if the first boon has any epic, give up and pick legacy if it isn't lol
because even on artemis builds i usually fish for heart rend
terse marten
f
worldly trellis
Does artemis special have a chance to proc on every hit when using Demeter fists?
like all 5 ticks?
cunning urchin
Each hit can crit individually, yeah.
lost badger
Uff, owned by FO, lost on EM3 after 5 DD
willow fossil
half crater
FO on EM3 is a bit of a trip
rugged wave
ye @worldly trellis
livid aurora
any advice on a chaos shield build? i've been running ares attack + dionysus special, but is there something better?
half crater
that’s honestly not bad
the other main way to go is zeus on special and stack tier 2 zeus boons
shooting for splitting bolt ofc
for zeus special it’s pretty much your choice of arty (for support fire) dem (for cold fusion) or ares (for supplementary doom damage) on attack
half crater
yeah
livid aurora
thanks i'll try it out
half crater
it’s quite good on chaos
livid aurora
when going for a specific duo boon like that, is it better to run fated authority or persuasion?
half crater
honestly you’re probably better off with persuasion for basically any build
authority is mostly just good for meme runs imo
as in “i’m gonna do a run where i only take poseidon boons!” or whatever
placid topaz
persuasion (the one that lets you re-roll the "chosen" boons)
frank dew
If you are trying to run a stacked pom build then authhority is better but persuasion is usually best
placid topaz
i used to run the one that lets you change the doors but instead i just start with the gods keepsake in tartarus and asphodel for that
livid aurora
ok that's the one i usually run, good to know thanks
placid topaz
yeah it seems great at first but i saw a vid from haelion (sp?) explaining the differences and he really showed how much better re-rolling the boons is compared to re-rolling the doors
half crater
yeah that’s pretty much it; keepsakes basically let you get most of the benefits of authority anyway
cosmic hornet
do you run demeter or aphro on rama's special
worldly trellis
wooo boi, Demeter fists + flying kick + artemis special
pliant anvil
@cosmic hornet I personally would run artemis for the crit, or aphro for the highest multiplier. Artemis pairs really well if you get some chaos +attack% boons, or if you can get athena and deadly reversal
Oh, wait special?
my bad, I would run athena
cosmic hornet
yee
pliant anvil
I misread that sorry xD
pliant anvil
I would mostly run athena because rama is a tight spread, and yeah, exposed is nice, but it's also for deadly reversal
then I would look for aphrodite on either dash or cast and look for heart rend, but I wouldn't try and force it via keepsake unless you found artemis and athena in Tartarus.
cosmic hornet
isn't it better to have athena on dash?
i usually run aphro on special for heart rend and weak, but i wonder if demeter is better for survivability
pliant anvil
It is, but if you're looking for maximum damage you gotta have aphro somewhere. And I think extra crit chance is better than higher crit multiplier
silk hearth
does slow affect bosses
cosmic hornet
slow affect bosses, yea
silk hearth
wow thats quite strong didnt know that
pliant anvil
I'm not sure if it's the same multiplier as regular non-boss enemies though
silk hearth
hmm
still ridge
I just finished a Rama run with Aries slapped on the special, and that did some serious damage once the other doom booms started coming online.
pliant anvil
doom is ok, but it doesn't synergize very well with rama
dry ember
pliant anvil
I mean, it closes you off from a lot of potential duo boons though
Rama itself is very strong though
cosmic hornet
tis a nice extra damage, but on rama i feel like its not that great since mobs that got hit by special will die anyway
i'd rather have survivability on special
pliant anvil
That's one of the reasons I like athena on special for rama. It lets you have crit attack, and still have a decent deflect access that opens up duo boons
pliant anvil
you could also do artemis dash to help your damage if you have artemis on attack, and has the advantage of a faster charge speed
really, there's quite a few choices for rama, and outside of crit on attack or maybe aphro on attack, I'd say it's pretty flexible
still ridge
Yeah, I’ll have to keep tinkering with rama builds. Not a huge fan of the attack’s charge time but seems like the special has a lot of potential.
pliant anvil
@still ridge do dash attacks, it has a faster charge speed
Which, again, artemis's dash pairs really well with. I think it actually ends up doing more than the regular attack
still ridge
Cool, didn’t realize that!
rotund ether
i know achilles spear goes well with anything but what makes it shine?
need some ideas
pliant anvil
Casts usually in my experience
I prefer ones that dont lodge, or can be used to deal aoe damage by aiming them at walls
rotund ether
and for attacks?
pliant anvil
So, blizzard shot, flood shot, hunting blades, and trippy shot
Just a usual attack build
Artemis attack, Athena special, deadly reversal
I usually also look for the triple dash strike hammer too, but I dont usually run an attack achilles spear
I feel hades does an attack based spear better
pliant anvil
Np
silk storm
What's the take on Aspect of Poseidon?
frank dew
decent cast weapon
pliant anvil
yeah, it's a pretty decent cast weapon that makes really good use of exit wounds
rotund ether
deadly strike or deadly flourish for demeter fists?
opal lodge
gun to my head flourish
mellow quest
flourish, deadly strike is a little underwhelming on fists
opal lodge
i am not a fan of ME but abuse it all the same 
frank dew
i already gave him a build
finite socket
Curse of Agony only works if you are aiming for ME anyways
mellow quest
wait a minute i actually got offered greater recall from the first hermes boon with lambent plume. so it's possible after all. lol
it's funny because i don't even want it this run
opal lodge
get lightning rod too for very funny build
lusty sequoia
The run after my first (really good) hunting blades run I had to remember to attack enemies instead of waiting
outer cave
arthur slaps bro
languid dagger
not much, just 2nd hit
but a pretty synergetic Aspect Zeus build
was missing Zeus special
build itself https://imgur.com/a/O6fCS5L
olive spruce
I had a really fun ME build the other day with the Chaos Shield aspect with Ares on special and Athena for attack/dash
languid dagger
how do you make a half-decent build with a bow?
I am always failing with that blasted weapon
silk hearth
which aspect are u using
olive spruce
IMO Chiron bow with e.g. Demeter on attack and Aprodite on special
to activate privileged status
another fun one is Poseidon attack (as long as you get Razor Shoals for Jolted)
because you can push your enemies away with the attack and then special a few times
fossil tangle
im a new player and getting builds that im looking for always ends up unwell so what are some tips to get better at finding/getting my builds within each run?
olive spruce
are you watching the people playing hades on youtube/twitch?
I think my builds/runs improved a lot by watching what other people were doing
also divine dash is imo the best boon in the game
languid dagger
@silk hearth got first two unlucked
silk hearth
if u hv the first two i recommend u use the second one, i think its aspect of chiron
so ur main dmg comes from ur special, artemis boon is good from what i heard
but chiron is a lot weaker with no upgrades cos only 4 arrows
keen hazel
im a new player and getting builds that im looking for always ends up unwell so what are some tips to get better at finding/getting my builds within each run?
@fossil tangle so my general approach is if you’re using a slow weapon with big hits - go for percentage based boons and Artemis for crit if you can. If your weapon is faster hitting, go for incremental advantages like zeus or Demeter attack (with the stack explosion), hangover, support fire
silk storm
What is "ME"?
frank dew
Using keepsakes to force gods you want to appear is also a good way to get better builds especially if you are looking for t2 duo or legendary
Merciful end
silk storm
Ahh okay
I tried to get that in my Shield of Chaos build, but Athena refused to give me the attack
frank dew
Yeh sometimes you just dont get what you need
silk storm
I'm still somehow on a 10 winstreak. Not lost one since I bought Chiron aspect
frank dew
Its a very easy to play aspect with alot of viable build paths
keen hazel
Chiron strong. Eris even more busted imo
frank dew
Eris is the strongest for sure
keen hazel
You can basically clear it with any reasonable setup
And they’re all reasonable
I’ve been having loads of fun with gilga/ruthless ref/lambent lately though
Throw in Athena dash and attack plus whatever and you can ignore mechanics a lot
frank dew
Yeh its very defensive tho
olive spruce
I find Eris confusing to play because it doesn't stagger enemies
I'm always like "why are you attacking me when i hit y... oh"
but it is pretty amazing with Zeus on the attack
keen hazel
Yeh its very defensive tho
@frank dew the throughput potential from gilga claws with minimal boosting is still very high and the increased uptime on doing damage matters immensely. I casually clear with that build in 17-18 minutes not even trying to be fast
frank dew
Yeh so do i without going especially defensive its just a playstyle preferance
gray shore
@fossil tangle checking out victory boasting is good for getting build ideas as well
or just asking people for ideas in this channel when you pick up a new weapon
fossil tangle
aight thanks
potent kayak
any tips on using fists? ive only got the first aspect and second atm
started using them yesterday and wanna get good at them
unkempt pagoda
it's easy to dash-strike since you can hold down the attack button and press dash, but this can be dangerous since dash strikes remove a dash's i-frames
onyx parcel
Dash between ur combos to keep ur damage output
Don’t ever stop attacking
Athena dash is good
Lightning strike is good
So is drunken strike
potent kayak
okay dash like the wind will do!
unkempt pagoda
you need to know when to dash and when to dash-strike, cause if you dash-strike into an attack, you're gonna eat damage
onyx parcel
And heartbreaks strike
Crit build is also good
Fist is very versatile
Don’t get Poseidon
potent kayak
thats what i seemed to be doing i would dash strike and take damage when i dont really need to
unkempt pagoda
yeah, dash striking after a combo can keep your dps up, but you need to be careful with it
gray shore
best part about fists is you can just hold down attack button
and focus on positioning
obviously stop attacking if you're gonna take a boatload of damage but
it's cool that you don't have to stop attacking if your defence is good enough
keen hazel
thats what i seemed to be doing i would dash strike and take damage when i dont really need to
@potent kayak something I’ve been doing to help my wife out is to start listening for sound cues more. Most of them have sounds on top of the animations and the sounds are easier to process than the visuals sometimes
potent kayak
@keen hazel ive never thought of that thank you! ive also heard the last aspect you get is good but theres a trade off
take damage do more
gigasomething
keen hazel
I combine that fist with ruthless reflex bc the fist gives you two extra dashes baseline
Ruthless gives you a huge dodge and damage bonus when you dash just before being hit and that curbs a lot of the extra damage intake
potent kayak
ive heard that ruthless is defo good with fists ill give it a shot thank you
is zeus good with the fists
i seem to get a lot of boons from him
whenever i do a run with them
keen hazel
You can buffer a dash special onto the end of a dash strike with gilga too. Just gotta push it fast enough
Zeus good with fists for sure
At least the attack
potent kayak
hmm okay and i managed to get the zeus boon which gives you electric on your attack to a high level and managed to get the jolt boon but it didnt feel like i was doing enough damage to boses
keen hazel
Which aspect?
potent kayak
i might have not been maximising my damage output though so i guess i have to not be too safe with the fists otherwise i wont get enough damage in
i used both the the first
and talos
yesterday
i heard talos got a buff but it felt awkward with the heavy hammer
potent kayak
mind you im probably not use to the playstyle and that does sound good
as ive been using bow and rail haha
frank dew
Dont use heavy knuckle its not really good despite the buff
keen hazel
No prob!
You might like Demeter fists with kinetic launcher. Big burst potential there
potent kayak
fists go boom yes please
keen hazel
I’d agree the best but gilga more fun for me
frank dew
I prefer explosive upper on demeter since dash attack dmg works for the dash uppers
unkempt pagoda
explosive upper is probably the best dem hammer, but kinetic launcher is more fun
opal lodge
kinetic launcher is just cooler
keen hazel
Ya hard to beat going full hadouken
opal lodge
but if im tryharding breaching cross is an auto pick
frank dew
Not a big fan of any of the charge things honestly tho some are amazing
keen hazel
Kinetic doesnt bother me like the others do
frank dew
One thing i really wish you could do is assing a button to the 2ndary attacks on spear and shield
potent kayak
petition to get talos q to do doom damage
frank dew
Talos with posi special is funny tho not very good
potent kayak
and i really want explosive upper but i have not managed to come across it yet
pull them in and knock them back haha
that would be cool
gray shore
Petition to have Bouldy drop from the sky at random intervals and smite your enemies
frank dew
You can only get explosive upper with zag and dem aspects
potent kayak
ah right thats probably why i have not got it yet then haha
and i can get behind that petition @gray shore
keen hazel
You can only get explosive upper with zag and dem aspects
@frank dew no you can get it with gilga too
Applies maim in a slightly larger area so kinda useful on jury summons
frank dew
True dunno what i confused it with
primal breach
Did u have a doc or a site with best builds or tips by weapons for beginners?
unkempt scroll
That's why I lost to 32 heat... +80% dmg...
unkempt pagoda
@primal breach here's one by @cunning urchin https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2233472883
unkempt scroll
Yeah... Idk how I'm gonna beat 32 heat...
The dash is just BS, it won't save me from the dmg x_x
unkempt scroll
I've taken all I can, without having it to be impossible for me... And I'm forced to take either FO, dmg %, or less healing...
proven osprey
What aspect ?
proven osprey
Ok so
proven osprey
My first 32 was Guan Yu without fo
unkempt scroll
The spin to heal?
unkempt scroll
I'm not sure if I can handle more than Tight Deadline 2
I'm not fast at this game
gray shore
are you abusing pause screen?
unkempt scroll
And especially if I have to try out a new weapon
gray shore
and skipping all non gold treasure troves
unkempt scroll
I used pause screen during my last run yesterday. As in, pause while you pick rooms and stuff?
unkempt scroll
I skipped every treasure trove, though :p
devout ether
Sometimes even take chaos rooms despite the life hit
unkempt scroll
I didn't want to do that, though. It costs +80% gold, and I don't wanna waste a keepsake there xP
I only want to take Chaos early on a region XD
proven osprey
gray shore
TD optimisation means pausing whenever there's a decision to make, also allows you to scan the room or react to fishing cue
proven osprey
would that be ok for you ?
gray shore
without wasting time trying to walk around the room
spending 10 s each room looking for loot
is like 5 mins wasted over a run by itself
unkempt scroll
I don't usually look around. I just take whatever I notice
frank dew
I did similiar setup to Astros with fists tho i run FO1 without problems
proven osprey
It's not mine, I'm just mixing things to help haha
unkempt scroll
And uhh, isn't dmg % on top of healing reduction kind of a death waiting for you??
proven osprey
Honestly I run LC4 all the time and go for Stubborn defiance
unkempt scroll
The dash is already BS enough for me without FO, with FO1 I'm probably not even gonna get to the final boss anymore
sweet fossil
What's the best spear aspect? The Lifeleech one ?
proven osprey
There is no FO in this setup
half crater
hades probably
frank dew
Hades and achilles imo
proven osprey
Prolly Hades yeah
proven osprey
Achilles is a lot fun and good too
half crater
achilles certainly isn’t bad
unkempt scroll
And I don't think I can beat the timer, if it's that setup...
I think I had like, 11 mins to beat the final boss yesterday
proven osprey
7 minutes is plenty dude
sweet fossil
Guan Yu is bad?
unkempt scroll
And that's without hp boost or jury summons
frank dew
Not bad but its harder to play
proven osprey
you get 7 min per region
unkempt scroll
I know
gray shore
Just learn LC4
proven osprey
GY is really strong but kinda tricky
unkempt scroll
LC4?
devout ether
Guan Yu is bad?
@sweet fossil Yes
proven osprey
TD2 is a gift honestly
gray shore
@sweet fossil Yes
@devout ether Note that this is just his opinion, some high level players love GY
TD2 is a gift honestly
@proven osprey I find TD2 fine personally. But if White Lucifax has issues with it, might as well suggest alternatives
half crater
yeah the answer to the question “is GY bad” is kinda complicated lol
devout ether
Loving GY and acknowledging that it is bad are not mutually exclusive
proven osprey
I think he can get used to it easily
devout ether
GY is my fav spear aspect but boy does it suck
frank dew
GY with the trippel dash strike is nice tho risky
gray shore
They are not mutually exclusive
unkempt scroll
I don't think there is a bad weapon. It's just different from person to person
gray shore
but some people actually think it's good too
devout ether
Those people are wrong 
proven osprey
I love this debates about GY
half crater
GY was the first aspect to break 40 heat
gray shore
Well, you're free to think that
proven osprey
So I can complain about how word my life is
half crater
so it’s probably not rubbish
devout ether
GY was the first aspect to break 40 heat
@half crater Did you get charged skewer, perchance?
half crater
no no, i haven’t done 40 with it
devout ether
Oh not you specifically, got it
cunning urchin
And Pierced Butterfly.
half crater
^
frank dew
That was before the current balance tho
half crater
hasn’t it been buffed since then
proven osprey
it's bad if you're bad
sweet fossil
So which one is easiest to play hades or achilles? About to smash all those blood in one of them
frank dew
It might have been but so has other things
cunning urchin
The Special was nerfed from 50 to 45, but that hardly matters.
frank dew
Not to mention that record was prolly done before all weapon aspects were even out
cunning urchin
Bruiser and FO were tuned a lot, too, so you could say it's easier now than it was then.
keen hazel
You can cheese high heat with it, doesn’t make it a good weapon imo
half crater
what does that even mean lol
proven osprey
yeah I do not see how
frank dew
I dont think the time limit allowes for it
keen hazel
With pierced butterfly and explosive skewer lol
half crater
like, ME is broken, but at 50 heat it’s just a valid strategy
proven osprey
explosive sewer GY pog
half crater
turn up the difficulty enough and nothing is easy
frank dew
Thats not cheese
cunning urchin
You can't even get Exploding Launcher on Guan Yu.
frank dew
Its just good build
half crater
that’s completely subjective
cunning urchin
What one thing? 
keen hazel
These discussions are all subjective in nature lol
cunning urchin
Special > Dash-Strike x2 > repeat is the optimal rotation, generally speaking.
frank dew
Most builds kinda work that way
proven osprey
But you could also do a spin build with Divine Strike.
@cunning urchin I like this one
As someone said here, the mighty "deflecting donut"
gray shore
These discussions are all subjective in nature lol
@keen hazel Well yes, we're in the realm of opinions, what did you expect
the topic was opinions on GY
rancid shard
anyone know if nourished soul from demeter increases healing from stubborn defiance?
gray shore
anyone know if nourished soul from demeter increases healing from stubborn defiance?
@rancid shard no
rancid shard
ty
gray shore
only Athena affects DDs/SD out of the 8 main gods
rancid shard
it may affect stubborn roots duo boon though?
half crater
stubborn roots? i doubt it
cunning urchin
It's just so weird to me to see these discussion when Guan Yu was routinely put in high tier before 1.0 lol.
keen hazel
@keen hazel Well yes, we're in the realm of opinions, what did you expect
@gray shore I said that because someone else told me one specific thing was subjective. I was agreeing with them
keen hazel
It's just so weird to me to see these discussion when Guan Yu was routinely put in high tier before 1.0 lol.
@cunning urchin So, before a lot more people got their hands on the game to have opinions?
cunning urchin
Just because a lot of the other aspects are not awful anymore doesn't mean Guan Yu is suddenly bad.
keen hazel
It kinda does mean that though
proven osprey
Brb
half crater
yeah like, i can think of much worse aspects...
gray shore
It kinda does mean that though
@keen hazel Only if the other aspects were so woefully underpowered that GY was allowed to be meh but still high tier relatively. I wasn't around before 1.0 so who knows
keen hazel
I just dont understand the resistance to the opinion. If youre EZ clapping high heats with guan yu, what's it matter what other people think of it?
half crater
basically i think what it comes down to is that people feel like GY needs to be really good to justify it messing with their health, and it’s just decent
but just decent is fine
cunning urchin
It doesn't really fall off until you reach heats so high you don't get around turning on FO2 lol.
gray shore
I've made the argument before, trashing an aspect on SGG discord isn't equivalent to hyping a bad one up. This game is a lot about discovery and it's totally possible that newer influxes of players will discover more about the game than what is already known
keen hazel
If anything GY fans should be encouraging the hate bc then youre more likely to see it buffed
gray shore
This game is far from solved
If you trash an aspect, you're discouraging players from investing TB into it
and discovering for themselves
that's part of what makes this game beautiful
So I also think it's fair that people would "resist" your opinion by leaping to its defence
if they think it's more than viable
keen hazel
IDK, I read a lot of hate prior to using it and that made me check it out prior to ones I knew were strong
Chiron and Eris were two of my last ones
gray shore
Your reaction may not be representative of the whole population though
just because your reaction to people dumpstering it
is to be curious
half crater
yeah most people would go the other way around i think lol
gray shore
I suspect that's actually the minority approach
a lot of people on new players just come in
"where should i spend my blood I don't want buyer's remorse AAAAAAA"
half crater
totally valid thing to do, but not representative i think yeah
keen hazel
Doesn't SGG make adjustments off pickrates anyway? Less interest would maybe encourage them to tweak it some
proven osprey
half crater
yeah.... like how eris got buffed for no reason
keen hazel
Mechanically I like how Guan Yu operates but I think spears need love in general
gray shore
Yes, but you're even just assuming that the aspect needs buffs- that's just your opinion. Not every GY user wants it buffed
half crater
the goal here shouldn’t be to arbitrarily buff random aspects
gray shore
What do you think Nyaanyaa, do you want it buffed?
keen hazel
It's a single player game, I would assume the goal would be to make the weapons feel fun to use at the very least
im sure lots of GY people love it but I think a lot more dont
half crater
GY is fun
cunning urchin
Guan Yu is designed to not be easily accessible. That doesn't mean it doesn't have a whole lot of potential.
It's obviously not for everyone. Glass canons typically aren't.
keen hazel
Large difference between not easily accessible and just a burden to use
half crater
GY is designed for a smaller niche of players than a lot of other aspects i think
that’s why it’s a secret aspect, and not the base version
proven osprey
half crater
takes longer to unlock
cunning urchin
It's not a burden to use for me. I can no-hit practically ever chamber at 32 Heat with it. Not something I can do with every aspect.
proven osprey
ik ik
gray shore
It's a single player game, I would assume the goal would be to make the weapons feel fun to use at the very least
@keen hazel even on that note. I look at Hestia gun and think, omg that looks so boring. But I don't go around saying that just because it's unfun for me, it's a terrible design
keen hazel
I didnt say GY had terrible design though
gray shore
Let me rephrase that
I don't think I have a right to trash on Hestia and say that it's objectively unfun (but you can add any negative adjective here instead)
fundamentally it's just my opinion
half crater
okay sorry if i misunderstood you, but i kinda thought you were saying it has terrible design
if that wasn’t what you meant, fair
cunning urchin
The core of the design for all of the aspects is high dynamic range. It's not that you like every single aspect.
It's that every aspect feels very distinct.
gray shore
as far as I'm concerned, it's just extra content for extra discovery
keen hazel
I think the situation here is you guys think I have a personal mission against GY. I don't. I understand that the point is for all the different aspects to appeal to different types of players
I'm just relating to the people who do have complaints about it and why they don't like it
gray shore
Nobody's saying you have a personal mission, I don't think. Well I can't speak for everyone here
keen hazel
I don't find fun but idc
gray shore
I think the main thing is
you said you don't understand the resistance towards the opinion
keen hazel
Yes, also that
gray shore
and some people actually legit think it's good rush to its defence
because they think the population at large dismiss it out of hand
because the downside seems incredibly big
when actually good players can simply no hit and be efficient at clearing to compensate for its downside
It's the dismissive nature of the opinions that can seem rather curt
keen hazel
I mean, it is an incredibly large downside, that can be objectively demonstrated lol
half crater
it halving your health is a feature imo
gray shore
if everyone said things like
GY has great damage, good for room clear, decent to no hit with
BUT
i still find the downside to be too much
and every person's reasoning was that qualified
there wouldn't be such exasperated defences laid out
half crater
part of the fun of GY is that anything can oneshot you
cunning urchin
Halving your HP is not relevant if you don't get hit.
midnight scaffold
just git gud lol
keen hazel
Most people saying "gy is bad" have the expanded opinion you just expressed but don't feel the need to elaborate
cunning urchin
I doubt that.
half crater
yeah i don’t think most people think as hard about video game weapons as we are right now lol
keen hazel
I don't Because they can look right at the downside and know that to be the case
cunning urchin
I pick High Confidence on it and don't even bother going for Centaur Hearts, really. Although the other day I messed up and died to 3 spins in a row (that all took 1 life), but I played terrible that day lol.
gray shore
Most people saying "gy is bad" have the expanded opinion you just expressed but don't feel the need to elaborate
@keen hazel And even if they did, they'd still be discouraging 1.0 kids from trying out the aspect. Tbf this isn't even a GY specific point
this is just about how we discuss aspect balance
keen hazel
Do you think the average person is going to unlock a couple of weapons and only use a handful?
I would say most people are going to try them all out some
cunning urchin
The average player isn't going to unlock half the weapons probably.
half crater
^
gray shore
My gf is currently very obsessed with 2 aspects per weapon
keen hazel
Why do you think that?
gray shore
and isn't interested in many of the hidden aspects
keen hazel
My wife is an average player and she's already done that in a few days
gray shore
I'm a completionist so
I play all of them
People have different mentalities and respond to opinions in different ways
hearty elbow
I think she meant half the aspects
cunning urchin
Yeah.
keen hazel
I know what she meant and whats what I meant
cunning urchin
But what you said is circular reasoning.
keen hazel
lol explain
gray shore
Average perhaps was possibly a poorly chosen word- it doesn't even matter about average. Think about the lower end of the pool who don't care to be completionist
half crater
lots of people just reach the credits then go “good game” and move on
gray shore
So we don't have to cater to everyone below the average line?
cunning urchin
Most people don't even reach the credits.
half crater
that’s only 10 clears in; pretty easy to not unlock all the weapons by then
keen hazel
You literally cannot cater to everyone
midnight scaffold
yeah my friends either stopped at the credits or kept playing for thanatos
gray shore
So we don't have to cater to everyone below the average line?
I should've said anyone*
keen hazel
Okay and for those people, things like debating the finer points of aspect balance doesn't matter
hoary slate
According to steam there's 40% who "escaped"
keen hazel
And it doesn't matter if they never use it
half crater
yeah it does
unkempt pagoda
not gonna bother to read the convo, but remember rule 1
hearty elbow
Most people who to go Hades are doing so because they played Bastion, Transistor, and Pyre, which all have soft post-endgames, so they may dabble for fun after the credits but I doubt they'd do much past that.
half crater
balance 100% matters for casual players
gray shore
You weren't debating the finer points of aspect balance until we brought this debate to you
You just said GY is bad
when someone asked
keen hazel
Okay so explain why its important for those people to NOT think GY is bad
proven osprey
was not him
half crater
just because someone nerds out about weapon aspects less doesn’t mean how they’re designed doesn’t effect their enjoyment of the game
keen hazel
Yeah it also wasnt me who said GY is bad
gray shore
Sorry, I must've forgotten
It's fine. I don't really want to drag this out any further
I think I've said my piece anyway, have a good evening guys
keen hazel
We're literally talking about why you guys think its important for casual people, let alone anyone to not have a negative opinion of one aspect
keen hazel
this whole thing popped off cause I said I dont understand the resistance to negative opinions of GY lol
and everyones dogpiling like "ITS IMPORTANT FOR NEW PLAYERS TO NOT THINK THAT"
gray shore
No, we're talking about why we think it's important that when someone trashes aspects, it's better to give qualified responses rather than Aspect X is bad lol
It's exactly the same as when someone asks me
should I replace Drunken Flourish with Divine Flourish, and asks for a detailed explanation
the reasoning is of benefit to them
half crater
most people can and will dislike GY; that’s fine and intended, as it’s a more niche playstyle
gray shore
I don't just say Divine Flourish swap is bad lol
hearty elbow
Lol, there's a difference between you saying X aspect is bad, and people saying, "No, there are ways to use it" and saying "I don't like playing X"
half crater
the issue comes when people try to argue that support for that niche playstyle should be changed or removed because there are less people playing it
lots of people love GY
let them love it, it’s fine
keen hazel
and let the people that hate it, hate it
gray shore
I for one don't even think GY is super high tier, imo it's fine could be stronger. But there's a decent group of people in this discord who believe that trashing an aspect in an unqualified way isn't healthy
keen hazel
You wont apply the same logic to people who go around saying its amazing and dont "qualify it"
gray shore
I explained that already
this game is about discovery
discouraging people from using an aspect
is more harmful than encouraging people to use a "bad" aspect
half crater
you can hate it, but if you want to argue it should be changed then you should prolly understand why people like it how it is
gray shore
this is not a mirrored state
keen hazel
"harmful" lol okay im done
its literally just people saying they hate a weapon in a game
gray shore
It's okay, you're entitled to your opinion
cunning urchin
If somebody comes to a Street Fighter server and calls a high-tier character bad when they're just simply difficult to use but have high potential, I would explain that to them.
Difficult and bad aren't the same thing.
keen hazel
weird I would just ignore them probably