But sacrifices your i frames
#h1-builds-and-combat
finite siren
also the demeter cast is such a satisfying cast
unrelated but yeah
like it might low key be my favorite cast
primal hazel
It's p bad imo
But I also really like it
It's fun
finite siren
but it melts bosses health like crazy
primal hazel
If you get a good build is decent
Vanilla bean alone? Nah
mellow quest
crystal clarity isn't good enough tracking for em3/4 with FO on
primal hazel
Try hunting blades (artemis and ares duo with ares cast m8)
Plays the game for you
You might like it even more than beams
finite siren
is there something in the game - a boon, an aspect, anything - that makes cast stuck in enemies deal damage over time
when i started playing i thought dionysus's cast was gonna be that but nope
primal hazel
No but there's one making cast stuck in enemies do damage when they fall out or get forced out
Exit wounds
Artemis
potent kayak
is crit good with hera?
potent kayak
i have a choice of deadly fourish, deadly strike and true shot
dry ember
deadly strike good
mellow quest
i don't recommend true shot on hera.
potent kayak
okay thank you!
mellow quest
it's really finicky about lodging the casts
you'll get 1 or 2 and the others will fly on behind the enemy
potent kayak
okay no worries
still vigil
i recommend crystal beam on hera
mellow quest
lol
mellow quest
might as well recommend tempest strike for guan yu spin while you're at it
still vigil
hey
primal hazel
still vigil
that might be memeful if ya get atk spd and spin charge faster
primal hazel
No
primal hazel
still vigil
primal hazel
Don't be racist towards me
mellow quest
not something to meme about in the slightest on this channel
potent kayak
okay so hera hammer sniper, triple or explosive shot
mellow quest
sniper, if you want to live in constant disappointment
primal hazel
Does sniper increase your range?
still vigil
i dun think so?
potent kayak
just damage
primal hazel
I don't think so right?
mellow quest
no it doesn't.
still vigil
wait
primal hazel
Take no hammer
still vigil
there's two??
mellow quest
it just adds a bit of bonus damage at the max bit of your range
primal hazel
Ig triple is the least painful
mellow quest
I have no idea how i feel about explosive shot
still vigil
i dun like explosive shot personally cause i like to strafe with the bow
and enemies stun
primal hazel
It's nice on rama imo
mellow quest
triple or twin is immensely better on rama
opal lodge
sniper and explosive are both 🤮
opal lodge
twin shot is still good on any bow
cunning urchin
Explosive Shot is nice but not what you'd want on Hera.
primal hazel
Bro try twin and explosive together on rama
Slow af but one shots galore
Sell technically two shots
Oh well I could've gotten a new personal rec with hestia
But o chose to stand around two minutes without pausing while on my phone
Even I I get a new best I'm gonna torture myself with the thought that I could've been 2 mins faster
still vigil
Bro try twin and explosive together on rama
Slow af but one shots galore
Sell technically two shots
@primal hazel why does this sound so dangerous
even with FO off
primal hazel
It's only dangerous if you don't okay every weapon melee
Obvsl you need to know when and how far to charge
still vigil
but if yer using twin and explosive together you are in melee range more or less
especially on rama
primal hazel
That's the fun part
mellow quest
twin shot range penalty is not that bad anymore.
primal hazel
You can also dash out of a shot to trigger it and give it a bit more range
neon vigil
So uh, what are the best gods to go for twin fists? Ares and Athena works alot. The Deflect on attack is great
dry ember
Divine Strike
Curse of Agony
Lightning Strike
Frost Strike + Artic Blast
still estuary
One message removed from a suspended account.
cunning urchin
@dry ember one of these is not like the others.
primal hazel
Aphro strike and legendary
dry ember
If you are using Demeter fists, Deadly Flourish is about the end all be all for Special boon
still vigil
I prefer Aphro on atk
neon vigil
Yeah with Twin fists I got up to Hades, but that was with Athena and err
Zeus one time
then Demeter and Athena
dry ember
@dry ember one of these is not like the others.
Must be Divine Strike because it's a crutch.
cunning urchin
Regardless of what you do, you'll really want Deflect on either Dash or Attack.
neon vigil
Both is usually good
Athena thankfully shows up alot for me but I gotta get lucky on what she gives me
and perhaps Hermes
still vigil
Aphro: do damage deal more damage
also Aphro: do damage to take less damage
so simple especially on fists
neon vigil
one time he gave me 3+ dashes
dry ember
If you want damage, can't beat Lightning Strike on fists imo
still vigil
cause arty crits and helps charge up calls faster on fists
aphro makes you super tanky and hits hard upfront
this is not including hermes boons or hammers
surreal pumice
For Aspect of Demeter fists I stack Dem buffs
i've not failed a single demfists clear with that build
dry ember
Well your damage mostly doesn't come from calls, Zeus on attack can outdamage aphro by a decent margin on non-Gil stuff.
still vigil
it doesnt but the ability to be one of the weapons that naturally pops off calls faster than other weapons shouldnt be completely disregarded
still vigil
especially if that weapons can synergize well with arty
surreal pumice
Aspect?
dry ember
I meant Aphrodite can work, just not optimal to me.
primal hazel
Yes
still vigil
also ya really cant disregard the survivability of aphro cause eHP shoots thru the roof
chaos is worth
just
neon vigil
I havn't beaten Hades yet...
still vigil
be wary if a boss room is coming up
neon vigil
😭
opal lodge
thats ok you'll get there
dry ember
also ya really cant disregard the survivability of aphro cause eHP shoots thru the roof
Only if you can spread weak effectively. The issue I find is that with fists, you don't get tagged by the enemy you are attacking, they are perma stunned anyhow. You get tagged by enemies around and behind you who are not weakened.
neon vigil
Lose 37 hp and get more gems and darkness / every time you attack -4 but you get 20% boon rarity
opal lodge
depends on the weapon
finite siren
chaos is my homie
opal lodge
+20% boon rarity is nothing to scoff at
neon vigil
Twin Fists
still vigil
also fr how close are you to a boss room
finite siren
chaos feels like getting curse in enter the gungeon
opal lodge
welp that sucks
dry ember
Chaos is great if you want to save time for TD purposes
neon vigil
Nowhere near boss room
still vigil
okay phew
neon vigil
Like got a room at the start
dry ember
I usually don't take them except when speedrunning
dry ember
should I tell him?
dry ember
nothing
neon vigil
solid hazel
Lol stop torturing them
cunning urchin
cause arty crits and helps charge up calls faster on fists
Errr . . . how would it help charge Call faster?
Lightning Strike is already 33% of the requirements for Smoldering Air anyway. Can't really beat that lol.
fiery ginkgo
she has a boon that charges it faster with crits
dry ember
the arty boon that increases call charge on crit i bet
fiery ginkgo
so maybe if you get that
cunning urchin
Lord Zeus has Clouded Judgment and Smoldering Air.
still vigil
also calls charge up depending upon the amount of hits you do
fiery ginkgo
but if you really want to charge the call o meter, i like the duo that reduces it to one bar, but you get it so fast you can have near constant uptime
dry ember
:SCREAM:
@neon vigil just keep playing. you will see. it's not hard to find out.
fiery ginkgo
that is a good boon
solid hazel
The number of times I've taken the crit to call bar can probably be counted with one finger
cunning urchin
You can get Support Fire with Lightning Strike, too.
neon vigil
but man that guy sucks
fiery ginkgo
i generally don't like artemis boons
she's probably my least taken god at this point
primal hazel
Booo
still vigil
XD
cunning urchin
Not like Malphon has any issue building God Gauge, anyway, so it doesn't really matter.
opal lodge
but seriously artemis is really good
dry ember
you have some more to go. more specifically ||clear the game 10(?) times||
opal lodge
most % damage weapons want artemis or aphro
still estuary
One message removed from a suspended account.
dry ember
most % damage weapons want artemis or aphro
technically every weapon is %damage weapons
as they do 100% of their damage
opal lodge
fair
cunning urchin
And untechnically?
opal lodge
i mean weapons that can take advantage of high base damage
fiery ginkgo
i like artemis on chiron special
still vigil
also there's ||pact of punishment||
dry ember
untechnically I would think they meant high base damage weapons
opal lodge
^
solid hazel
Technically correct is the best kind of corrct6
fiery ginkgo
or dash with the spear with triple dash hammer
dry ember
aka not fist or non-hestia rail
cunning urchin
Heavy Knuckle with Deadly Strike is actually really good on Talos.
still vigil
_>
fiery ginkgo
yeah i can see how heavy knuckle would shred with talos
dry ember
yeah sure, but that's a hammer. you get the point, we are being untechnical here, don't be so technical 
cunning urchin
It was already fine lol. It's exactly where I liked it the most in the Blood Price beta now.
dry ember
it's fine. just anti syndergy with lighting strike and demeter fists makes it terrible
solid hazel
You could probably approximately correct....its good enough for the machines
fiery ginkgo
i have actually never used it because i usually run demeter aspect
cunning urchin
Flood Shot, Heavy Knuckle, Deadly Strike, Mirage Shot is great.
Kinda busted if you can also get Blizzard Shot.
still vigil
imma try zeus on fists at 32 heat and see if i like it
dry ember
isn't that like... any cast build?
cunning urchin
Not quite.
What other aspect can pull your enemies into your Blizzard Shots over and over again? 
surreal pumice
demeter bad aff
still vigil
what
solid hazel
WHAT?
surreal pumice
best boons in the game don't @ me
still vigil
um security
dry ember
What other aspect can pull your enemies into your Blizzard Shots over and over again?
yeah, but I don't like using more than 2 buttons while playing
still vigil
i guess rama aint fer you eh? @dry ember
dry ember
well funnily enough, I hated Rama at first, but Tailesque changed my mind
Rama is busted
still vigil
the hypocrisy
opal lodge
that is the story
dry ember
ikr
solid hazel
I was playing serrated point on hades yesterday and the wasn't sure if the longer time to get to exits was worth the damage
opal lodge
yes it is worth the damage
still vigil
i liked rama cause i liked the sound it made when yer chargin it
solid hazel
But I was bored that time
cunning urchin
I hated Tailesque at first, but Rama changed my mind.
opal lodge
hades without serrated point scales pretty terribly
dry ember
ik ledger experimented a lot with Rama, but most of the videos I saw for Rama pre 1.0 was specical spam
opal lodge
if you're going for speed
cunning urchin
Wait no. That one's not like the others.
dry ember
not until Tail made it with hybrid build that really made me think.
solid hazel
I remember a WR speed run video where it was Zeus special span
opal lodge
zeus special spam is still pretty strong with double strike
solid hazel
Didn't make sense to me in current build
dry ember
that was nerfed I am p sure
solid hazel
Doesn't Rama activate icd?
dry ember
like the day after it was posted, the nerf happened.
opal lodge
lol
solid hazel
Lol
opal lodge
b a l a n c e
still vigil
so i have to say in spite of popular opinion, hermes is the best god
not arty
not aphro
not demeter of all things
cunning urchin
Hades Aspect doesn't need Serrated Point lol. But it's definitely #1 for DPS.
primal hazel
Yo wtf has the woodland theme cost been taken done
I could've sworn it being 300 and the diamond theme being 50k l
Lol
cunning urchin
Would be nice if the optimal build for Zag spear and Guan Yu weren't just ME again.
opal lodge
i'm not saying it needs it
cunning urchin
ME is really killing build variety on melee.
opal lodge
im just saying the damage falloff becomes really noticeable in elysium/styx
even with heart rend
solid hazel
@still vigil hestia or Arthur?
dry ember
are there any builds thatre 1 chunk hits on attack
erm Rama with Hunter Dash Deadly Strike + good hammers?
have you seen Tailesque chunking Hades on 50+ heat?
cunning urchin
Divine Strike with Hunter Dash etc. used to at least somewhat rival ME.
primal hazel
One shots everywhere
cunning urchin
Kinda sick of ME meta.
thorny dirge
what's Zag spear's ME combo? it can't really do the special>dash-strike>dash-strike that Guan Yu can do, at least not without exploding launcher
still vigil
ooo this sounds cool
dry ember
Kinda sick of ME meta.
There is an ME meta?
still vigil
ty fer the the responses
solid hazel
Shouldn't it be just dash strike with curse of agony and divine dash?
primal hazel
So how's thunder flare with beo?
cunning urchin
What @solid hazel said, yeah.
primal hazel
Sad
thorny dirge
gotcha
solid hazel
I mean you still need divine flourish as prereq... You just don't use it
opal lodge
i just dont know how they would nerf ME
cunning urchin
Start with removing the +40 damage that it never needed lol.
opal lodge
even if they got rid of the extra damage bonus it would still be absurdly strong
yeah
still vigil
@primal hazel i heard zeus on beo was a fad
dry ember
What else is fun besides aphrodite and dio
Flood Flare
solid hazel
I like flood flare... Get wet!
primal hazel
Flood Flare
@dry ember any nice duos in that?
solid hazel
It's easier to land too... Sometimes I miss with passion flare
dry ember
seastorm?
cunning urchin
Let Hunter Dash unlock Deadly Reversal again.
primal hazel
K thx
thorny dirge
was DR busted at some point? i can understand ME being hard to unlock but not really DR
solid hazel
A lot of hestia turns into dash strike for me too...
I mean dash strike gets bigger buffs from chaos than just normal attack
primal hazel
Also hunter dash obvs
still vigil
Also multiple dashes from hermes
@primal hazel you can get dashes from hermes?
primal hazel
You didn't know?
cunning urchin
You could try Divine Strike + Hunter Dash on Malphon.
primal hazel
Up to 4 I thi k
still vigil
never saw that ever
primal hazel
Well at least up to 3
still vigil
whaaa
dry ember
up to 3
primal hazel
Wow that sucks
cunning urchin
4 is Heroic.
primal hazel
Hah I was right
cunning urchin
Well, even just +1 Dash is S tier lol.
primal hazel
There is a heroic
primal hazel
Mostly achieved through Euridice and rare crop
Game changer
Welcome to a new world
finite siren
what's the differenc between rarity and level
finite siren
that's confusing
cunning urchin
They're upgraded differently.
opal lodge
^
still vigil
im usually getting something related to move speed thus always ending up with rush delivery
opal lodge
rush delivery is really good
primal hazel
cunning urchin
But rarity and pom bonus is additive, anyway.
finite siren
so it's better to choose the rarity boost over the level boost when talking to euridice ?
primal hazel
Rush delivery fun
opal lodge
i would take rush delivery over extra dashes on non-dash reliant builds
still vigil
oh wow that's a lot of numbers
opal lodge
rush delivery is especially good on beowulf
solid hazel
Rarity is the color denoted on the boon, white common, yellow rare, purple epic, red heroic. Level is a number next to the boon
still vigil
i love rush delivery on fists
cunning urchin
I've stopped linking my spreadsheet because I need to fix some numbers, but evidently, that doesn't stop others from linking it lol.
Should give you an idea for how it works, though.
opal lodge
i prefer having extra dashes for ME fists
solid hazel
They both make the boon better but usually rarity is static once you pick the boon and level can increase with poms
primal hazel
It should give a good enough oversight though
opal lodge
but rush delivery isnt bad
primal hazel
The only way you can stop me from posting it is making a new one
solid hazel
It should give a good enough oversight though
@primal hazel yes it's a good manager
still vigil
i think it's cause generally get an epic or heroic rush delivery on fists with sprint @opal lodge
thorny dirge
level gives some percent of common base value, that decays for each additional pom; rarity is a multiplier on common base value
they don't interact at all really
still vigil
that im biased
cunning urchin
so it's better to choose the rarity boost over the level boost when talking to euridice ?
That really depends on a whole lot of things. Some boons can't be upgraded with poms, but all boons can have their rarity upgraded—except Heroic (highest rarity), Legendary, and Duo Boons.
opal lodge
also depends on how many boons you have, etc
cunning urchin
Yeah.
opal lodge
taking the nectar is also a consideration if you're looking for a particular duo/legendary
nectar is slept on
cunning urchin
I'd actually recommend Refreshing Nectar as the default pick whenever you're not sure what to do.
still vigil
why nectar?
primal hazel
Levels
cunning urchin
Better chance for Legendary/Duo boons, better chance for Epic, and guaranteed rare at worst.
still vigil
i blipped
dry ember
Nectar isn't optimal, though.
opal lodge
depends on a bunch of different factors imo
opal lodge
eurydice is not an easy algorithmic decision
solid hazel
So according to your rule, if I'm not sure whether to pick ambrosia or porridge, I should pick nectar. Got it.
still vigil
unless my boons ares generally what i want i tend to skip ambrosia
dry ember
If you are forced to pick nectar as the optimal choice, your build is probably terrible. And when you are half way through Asphodel with a bad build, you are in deep trouble.
cunning urchin
You can get any Duo Boon—even one you don't care for—sell it, and buy 2 new boons and a pom with it lol.
Sure, I guess all my builds are terrible lol.
still estuary
One message removed from a suspended account.
opal lodge
they're fighting again because of me
still vigil
half of my runs are jank builds so ya
solid hazel
If you are forced to pick nectar as the optimal choice, your build is probably terrible. And when you are half way through Asphodel with a bad build, you are in deep trouble.
@dry ember specific duos can turn a build around very quickly... Like smoldering air
dry ember
You know what, my bad.
opal lodge
i just hope it hits my dps
dry ember
I keep the high heat mindset here
still estuary
One message removed from a suspended account.
cunning urchin
Good chance I'll see Lord Hermes soon after that.
solid hazel
No keep fox here he's the best
still vigil
depends on what ya have and what yer aiming fer
dry ember
It's a difference between still take and always take it if you don't know what you are doing
primal hazel
One of yeah
cunning urchin
Getting at least +2 Dashes beats any +1 to my Attack.
mellow quest
ambrosia delight is rarely correct
dry ember
like, how many tier2s, duos or legendaries do you already have by mid-Asphodel?
@still estuary well you don't need those to win a run. I'd rather upgrade my core boons than getting Exclusive Access in Elysium, for example.
opal lodge
i'll take it if i got a common on my primary dps boon
mellow quest
you've gotta be in like, having a really high chance to hit an epic lightning strike sort of scenario
dry ember
Many duos boons are not great, so are legendaries
stark ore
Delight’s really only good if you don’t have that many boons and need a heroic or something, even then I still pick Nectar
opal lodge
having a common for certain boons just like really really sucks
cunning urchin
Ambrosia Delight is probably my #1 pick if I already have Greatest Reflex.
Because +1 dash kinda beats every other option lol.
mellow quest
or a hermes boon like greatest reflex yeah.
still vigil
i like this stream of discourse
stark ore
There’s really only a handful of boons I’d take the Ambrosia on, and they’re mostly Hermes boons anyways
cunning urchin
Any Duo Boon is 400+ obols. That's pretty great.
mellow quest
rush delivery is another really good one to upgrade rarity on.
primal hazel
Wtf I can actually load casts into beowulf mid dash and it will trigger them
opal lodge
could be worth taking delight if you've seen hermes already and nectar if you haven't
urban lily
i usually take the 2 +rarity thing if i have few boons so i can have a better chance of it going on my main attack
mellow quest
though it's rare you even have rush delivery
opal lodge
very hard to get rush delivery boosted yeah
still vigil
is it?
cunning urchin
could be worth taking delight if you've seen hermes already and nectar if you haven't
That's a good rule of thumb, yeah.
Unless you get trash from Lord Hermes.
primal hazel
Didn't know I could load casts into beo mid dash lol
cunning urchin
Which can sometimes happen, especially with AP.
opal lodge
you can also call mid dash
mellow quest
hyper sprint rarity doesn't really do that much
opal lodge
if you're running dad keepsake
primal hazel
I mean mid bull rush
still vigil
yall take AP?
opal lodge
yeah mid bull rush my b
primal hazel
Nah
opal lodge
at some point you have eto
primal hazel
Yeah the last point
stark ore
It still feels much better having a rare Hyper Sprint over a common, the extra 0.1-0.2 seconds does make the game feel smoother especially with extra dashes
mellow quest
and if you were ap'd into side hustle chances are you have CF2 on anyway too.
cunning urchin
@primal hazel you can pick up casts and immediately load them all during your Dragon Rush/Bull Rush lol.
primal hazel
Feels so smoooth
cunning urchin
But with Infernal Soul and extra ammo, it can actually be difficult to load all your casts in time.
thorny dirge
honestly i prefer +cast damage for beo for that exact reason
mellow quest
can flurry cast be offered with hera/beo?
cunning urchin
I've never seen Flurry Cast on either, so I'll say no.
still vigil
how would that even work? a quick load?
cunning urchin
+1 ammo on Beowulf is better, though, if you use Stygian Soul.
mellow quest
there's been plenty of instances where loading my 7 casts very quickly sure would be cool
opal lodge
LOL
dry ember
Get a programmable keyboard or set up a macro
still vigil
carpal tunnel say hi
stark ore
Just checked, they can’t be offered with them :/
solid hazel
carpal tunnel say hi
@still vigil that's why mkb sucks... I use a ddr pad personally
I don't win much
lean mason
are there any addins for DPS or debuffs/buffs, timers, etc. al-la World of Warcraft? Or are there the mechanisms available with the game-state from the devs to allow such things?
thorny dirge
i think ellomenop has a mod out for DPS meter
opal lodge
does it still break charm
primal hazel
I'd love that on switch
lean mason
awe hells ya, thanks @thorny dirge
opal lodge
i think the mod makes charmed enemies do boatloads more daamage so watch out for that
unless it got fixed
still vigil
that would be nice if charm actually did more
primal hazel
Bro
Charm is so nice
Free interrupt
It's basically a stun
The only stun
If you have it on a fast attack
It interrupts bosses right out of their attacks
still vigil
if that was the case ppl would take aphro over zeus waaay more
primal hazel
That's not how it works
primal hazel
Charm is bound to a legendary
Thus it's marginally harder to achieve
Zeus attack is more immediate dps
Also I didn't ever say it's better than zeus
I'm just saying it's good
primal hazel
You can fit it into a Demeter fist crit build
still vigil
ive tried it on fists before cause of its fast atk
primal hazel
Then idk why you found it weak lol
proven osprey
Smoldering air Aphro aid
primal hazel
It's best with dem fists tho imo
still vigil
fer some reason it feels like it procs with the frequency of a slightly slower doom
if that
primal hazel
Because you'll attack often but it won't be your main damage source
solid hazel
@neon vigil dont worry you'll get therr
primal hazel
Also smoldering
It doesn't work like that
It procs randomly but instantly
Its value is mostly as a stun imo
Especially with bosses
solid hazel
Charmed asterius or thesues is very funny also
neon vigil
Curse you Hades!
primal hazel
See it as a free stun
solid hazel
They're quite good at killing each other
neon vigil
I had a Zeus Demeter run with that
neon vigil
But the Satyrs really messed me up
opal lodge
very funny interaction
primal hazel
It shouldn't be your main damage source but it's very good supporting boon
solid hazel
Have you tried broken spear point @neon vigil
It's good protection from poison if that's what is killing you
still vigil
cuz maybe seein it as a supporting legendary is the best way
neon vigil
Say wha?
still vigil
cause even tho athena legend is hard to get obvs, its so good qwq
primal hazel
Well it won't give you crazy dps like others
still vigil
i just like being tanky lol
solid hazel
Broken spear point is keepsake from patrocolus, it gives you invincibility for a bit of time after getting hit
So it's great on poison, you get poisoned and then have a bit of grace period to get to an antidote
surreal pumice
what should i build on nem?
still vigil
aphro
solid hazel
Aphro attack, double edge, divine dash or hunter dash, heart rend, Deadly reversal
still vigil
id say arty but it already has crit on it so 🤷🏿♂️
solid hazel
Those are the the best stuff
primal hazel
Aphro attack, double edge, divine dash or hunter dash, heart rend, Deadly reversal
@solid hazel divine flourish, dio call also Artemis attack
solid hazel
Don't make us pull out the incorrext spreadsheet again
solid hazel
Yeah aphro attack is always more damage than arty for nemesis
still vigil
yer not alone
still vigil
a quest
surreal pumice
yes
primal hazel
What's wrong with my brain
solid hazel
I always call hades ares
devout ether
Chaos just told me to kill daddy with his egg
@surreal pumice Specifically, he asked you to do it "for the lulz"
solid hazel
Chaos is my favorite
still vigil
i think about jojo everytime some1 says dio
surreal pumice
same
solid hazel
He's like way off the spectrum
surreal pumice
i feel bad for calling chaos a him
they deserve more respect since they are everything and nothing
solid hazel
It's way off the spectrum?
still vigil
it/they
primal hazel
They're a they dude
surreal pumice
yeah i know
primal hazel
I mean nate
solid hazel
They being used as a singular kills me inside... But it sounds less insulting than it
primal hazel
Well it's not a singular in that sense
opal lodge
i keep thinking
still vigil
is bouldy's punishment being a boulder in tartarus?
opal lodge
about why builds and combat goes off topic so often
and i really can't think of anything
primal hazel
Bouldy is there because if Sysiphus
still vigil
i dunno why tbh
solid hazel
is bouldy's punishment being a boulder in tartarus?
@still vigil I hate to break it to you, but bouldy's just a rock
primal hazel
Idk cause people like chatting
primal hazel
@still vigil I hate to break it to you, but bouldy'sust a rock
@solid hazel HOW DARE YOU
@gray shore
still vigil
i think its justt cause some1 said somethin controversial but brave or purely interestin that boundaries must be broken even fer a sec @opal lodge
opal lodge
fair enough
solid hazel
I don't think it's boundaries have to be that strict... As long as we answer actual questions when people have them
still vigil
i think ares although trash is better than dio
surreal pumice
Bouldy's punishment is being in Sisyphus' company for eternity
still vigil
XD
surreal pumice
All boons can be considered good, I like Ares with high doom on spear attack
Dio has extremely good support boons
still vigil
is that a ____ reference?
surreal pumice
no
turbid needle
I don't like the Jojo community itself, but I can't ignore references
primal hazel
Bouldy's punishment is being in Sisyphus' company for eternity
@surreal pumice Frick you
za warudooo
still vigil
who would be considered the overall better support god when using max LC?
surreal pumice
What's LC?
turbid needle
Yeah please
still vigil
lasting consequences
solid hazel
The only interaction I can think of is like life affirmation from aphro or nourishing soul for demeter
Other than that I think you just make a strong build and play well
dry ember
Nourished Soul is no no on LC4
still vigil
i rlly wish the other dashes were a lil better
solid hazel
Depends on your definition of good haha
neon vigil
hecc
proven osprey
Are you asking if ppl win ?
neon vigil
I dont know how close I am to the boss
dry ember
kill Hades, GG EZ dad
solid hazel
There's a big skill gap between losing and winning 0 heat even
still vigil
ik ppl win, but i also know ppl say dont get hit like EM4 hades doesnt exist
solid hazel
And most people can do that eventually
dry ember
if you try to no hit, you usually lose to something like TD3
still vigil
like "amazing advice, mate"
solid hazel
Oh yeah that's kinda unreasonable expectation
neon vigil
question is there a way to check how close you ar to the boss?
proven osprey
Git gud yeah
dry ember
like "amazing advice, mate"
that's why my advice is to complain more and wait for patch note
easy to do, effective
just need to be patient
devout ether
question is there a way to check how close you ar to the boss?
@neon vigil Bosses are rooms 14, 24 and 36
still vigil
^
solid hazel
The Chamber number at top righf when you hit select
proven osprey
What these people are trying to say is that practice is basically the answer
dry ember
if you hit select the moment the new room loads, the chamber number will always be visible
neon vigil
wait wheres select?
proven osprey
Sometimes there is no advice
solid hazel
Uhh I'm on ps4 notation jaha
neon vigil
ohhh
dry ember
select on gamepad?
opal lodge
yeah get in the habit of doing it as you enter room
and it'll show up without making you unactionable
solid hazel
Yeah to the point about getting gud... There really is some amount of mechanical skill that no amount of good builds can make up for
It's not much, but people do generally have to learn how to dodge enemies and attack effectively
devout ether
Yeah to the point about getting gud... There really is some amount of mechanical skill that no amount of good builds can make up for
Poor liminal.shadow
still vigil
i feel like that's a can of worms im not big boy enough to open so imma agree
rando question just cause im curious
what one playin aspect that yer not fond of about any god?
dry ember
Saying git gud is fine, as long as you also mention how to practice effectively.
still vigil
makes sense
devout ether
130 runs, God mode at 60%, still couldnt beat the game with bow
dry ember
to me that means making temp save practice.
solid hazel
I don't like hades aspect much...
dry ember
130 runs, God mode at 60%, still couldnt beat the game with bow
are you dash striking a lot?
devout ether
Not me, the guy I mentioned
solid hazel
I just feel like by the time you've spun. On any other aspect you could have gotten two good hits in and killed most enemies already
dry ember
oh, mb
still vigil
i wonder if hades is one of those aspects ya deal damage with other things aside from the spear
solid hazel
I mean its good with Artemis boons on attack or special... I just don't like it
Not saying it's bad
still vigil
understandable
devout ether
Not saying it's bad
@solid hazel I AM saying it's bad
solid hazel
As opposed to zag sword I think is like almost always inferior to nemesis
still vigil
i understand and agree that demeter is strong fer the most part but i dun like the idea of waitin fer my burst
solid hazel
Don't know why it exists
dry ember
Don't know why it exists
Something something Skelly quest
still vigil
to be kirito
Don't know why it exists
@solid hazel
solid hazel
It'd probably better on a hoarding slash meme build haha
Since bonus from hoarding slash can't crit...
dry ember
hoarding clash flurry slash
solid hazel
Yeah...
dry ember
if you want to anvil luck you can get cursed slash, too
solid hazel
Totally reliable, just need two specific hammers haha
dry ember
apparently it's ok with high enough attack speed
dry ember
1 in like 20 runs, if that
solid hazel
I saw haelians run... It was amazing at the end
But he save scummed to get the hammers
dry ember
anvil into dash nova xD lmao 420
solid hazel
Got to 6k gold at the end... It was like doing like 400 per hit on flurry slash
still vigil
it felt very jank
solid hazel
I use it on Poisedon just for thr sturdy
Cuz like the other hammers do even less for a cast build
still vigil
like they dun synergize with how youd probably play with the sword
or just dun scale very well
opal lodge
sword hammers bad
that is my nuanced opinion
unless double edge or piercing wave
or if you're using arthur
still vigil
that is my
nuancedabsolute opinion
@opal lodge
dry ember
Only Sith deals in absolute.
still vigil
math does too
solid hazel
Well there's a lot of absolutes in logic...so apparently jedis don't use logic
devout ether
Piercing wave is also bad tho
opal lodge
piercing wave is bad but since it procs off dash strike it is not as bad
still vigil
piercing wave is bad too
solid hazel
Yeah... Like maybe the strat just hasne been discovered yet... But I really cant think of a situation where world splitter seems like a benefit
still vigil
but like arthur exists if ya want chonk
solid hazel
It probably is dps upgrade... But the hitbox so bad and it makes your attack so much risikier
solid hazel
Yeah i think blackout is global
still vigil
kk!
ty
ice wine and black out sounds nice right about now
dun have to worry about the lob mechanic
primal hazel
Scintillating Feast is way better
primal hazel
Worth it
solid hazel
Why does ice wine take away lob?
dry ember
but i dun wanna deal with the toss
ever heard of Hera?
still vigil
nope
solid hazel
She's a nice lady you should say hi
primal hazel
Hera takes away lob
still vigil
and lovers
primal hazel
She's nice like that
devout ether
Why does ice wine take away lob?
@solid hazel To make it better
solid hazel
Hey when you hiding behind a pillar against em4 lasers, lob doesn't seem that bad
still vigil
still can bounce back
solid hazel
It's janky, but you can distance it right to get over it most of the time
With practice... Play more softball
still vigil
or snowball
given the location
which is why ice wice is better than scintillating feast
solid hazel
Wineball
still vigil
oop
solid hazel
It's like the grownup version of calvinball
primal hazel
Dionysus boon, chill
still vigil
after max demeter curse
primal hazel
There's a boon from Dionysus that makes hangover affected enemies slower
solid hazel
I don't know if it's capped... But there Dio boon and Arthur aura also
magic stone
I mean there’s also a mirror upgrade that can make enemies 30% slower
still vigil
oh yeaa
magic stone
Yes.
solid hazel
Oh yeah that too abysal blood
still vigil
so demeter, arthur, arthur hammer, and abyssal blood, dio duo boon
solid hazel
But like I said there might be a cap on enemy speed reduction... It's kinda hard to tell
magic stone
Just like there’s a cap on dodge chance prob
solid hazel
Well.. I have no evidence that there's a cap either...
Well dodge caps at 100%...
I know that for a fact, I tested it myself
solid hazel
Would be sweet
cunning urchin
They're in the shadow realm already.
magic stone
I saw Haelian Male a vid on it. I couldn’t be bothered to watch it so I skipped to the end and I don’t believe it worked at 100%
still vigil
i got it! make a rush delivery but for dodge
magic stone
How fast can your move speed be? I wonder how fast you can get with Zag sword maxed out, Lambuent Plume and Hermes speed boon.
cunning urchin
I don't have a video. I just have the link to one.
solid hazel
That's the same haha
opal lodge
you also want second wind if you're trying to increase move speed max
magic stone
What’s the best cast for Beowulf btw?
primal hazel
Aphrodite
magic stone
Dio?
still vigil
seuz
opal lodge
i like dio
solid hazel
Passion is consensus
primal hazel
Zeus is probably the worst
solid hazel
Dio and Poisedon are good too
primal hazel
Aphro or dio
magic stone
Yeah I’ve heard two answers rather Dio and Aphro
cunning urchin
opal lodge
the current WR is with aphro but records have been set with Dio too
magic stone
I guess Aphro is good when you like to stick to enemies
But I usually use the cast regen mirror thing with Dio
primal hazel
Beo casts don't stick
opal lodge
so getting another cast stone is a top priority
solid hazel
@magic stone loom at the link @cunning urchin just put up for 100% dodge
magic stone
Oh right
opal lodge
basically if you run dio cast on beowulf you want to save at least 2 rerolls for a chaos gate in tartarus so you can get another cast stone
solid hazel
Thnks for digging it up again BTW @cunning urchin
opal lodge
Fully loaded from artemis is too unreliable and will come up too late to save you
if it shows up at all
magic stone
You can die I believe
tranquil violet
New favorite fist build:
magic stone
I think? I don’t really recall.
tranquil violet
Gilgamesh with Poseidon dash, Hermes boons and Sea Storm
cunning urchin
I think Fully Loaded is kinda easy to get, I dunno.
magic stone
If it says prophecy fulfilled before you enter the fight I’d say it’s safe to die
surreal pumice
Because I came up here with a terrible build, chaos egg, and one death defiance lol
opal lodge
fully loaded is easy to get if you dont care about mirage shot imo
otherwise might be asking too much of lady artemis
magic stone
Gilgamesh is the only aspect I haven’t got yet :/
tranquil violet
If you get Hyper Sprint and Rush Delivery it's amazing
magic stone
I’ll try that out once I get it
tranquil violet
Stack dodge chance too to maximize face tanking
opal lodge
hyper rushed is amazing
tranquil violet
Support Fire is also nice
opal lodge
how i hit 8k on a beo cast lol
opal lodge
hyper rushed + dad keepsake + mirage shot
cunning urchin
Yeah, I guess that's fair. But I get both a lot.
magic stone
Support Fire on Zeus shield
opal lodge
your life must be nice
magic stone
I used it earlier and my god was it good.
tranquil violet
Support Fire on Chiron bow is still my favorite
opal lodge
i think ive gotten fully loaded and mirage shot together maybe twice
solid hazel
It's 3 prereqs... Objectively harder than most duos, on par with a few other legendaries though
opal lodge
in 400 runs
tranquil violet
But yeah with Poseidon Dash, Zeus Attack, rupture, jolted, sea Storm, etc
You can just melt through anything
Even shield bois
still estuary
One message removed from a suspended account.
primal hazel
Very nice supplement on fast attacks
cunning urchin
It's still really good. Not worth putting poms on anymore, though.
still estuary
One message removed from a suspended account.
cunning urchin
It was the pom scaling that made it so very good.
surreal pumice
Yeah I gotta murder daddy with the egg
thorny dirge
support fire builds god gauge right?
solid hazel
Yeah I gotta murder daddy with the egg
@surreal pumice /r/nocontext
cunning urchin
You should prioritize Fully Loaded over Mirage Shot if you want both.
magic stone
AHAHH
cunning urchin
@thorny dirge yes.
primal hazel
You defeated him to death
magic stone
Is it first time? OwO
cunning urchin
First boon to get from her should always be Pressure Points. That's already half the requirements, and it's a t1 boon that's not for a priority slot, so you gotta get that first or it will be very hard to get after unlocking her t2 pool.
neon vigil
YEAH
primal hazel
Yo guys any fun suggestion for chiron aside the same old same old?
magic stone
Okay
cunning urchin
@neon vigil congratulations! 
magic stone
Well Ares is pretty fun
primal hazel
Internal 0.2 second cooldown
magic stone
With stacked effect
woven delta
Ares + the boon that makes you able to stack Doom?
primal hazel
Chiron is too fast
magic stone
And?
primal hazel
Yeah I might rock that
primal hazel
No I mean thou der flourish
magic stone
Yeah now that I think about it Zeus would be bad
cunning urchin
I feel like the people I was trying to give tips for getting Fully Loaded + Mirage Shot already left lol.
woven delta
Side note though, what boon would you guys recommend for special on shield Chaos aspect?
cunning urchin
@woven delta Thunder Flourish.
magic stone
Dio
I always use Dio special on Chaos
Or Artemis
Zeus is more for higher heat in my opinion
cunning urchin
Drunken Flourish is not bad, but your DPS will be sus vs bosses.
primal hazel
Chaos: Ares Attack/Demeter Attack, Zeus Special,Jolted, ideally Splitting Bolt, ideally Divine Dash or something to enable Privilege Status if you don't have Jolted
woven delta
For Sea Storm, I presume?
primal hazel
Well what works on higher heat also works on lower
cunning urchin
@primal hazel nah if that's a quote, I don't write like that lol.
solid hazel
Congratz @neon vigil
woven delta
Also does Sea Storm require boons with knock back or will any sort of knockback work?
primal hazel
@primal hazel nah if that's a quote, I don't write like that lol.
@cunning urchin huh something that you don't claim
Also does Sea Storm require boons with knock back or will any sort of knockback work?
@woven delta well you take poseidon flourish obvs
Only poseidon knockback boons
woven delta
Alright, just wanted to check on there
primal hazel
Heck yes I nearly got all the stickers
cunning urchin
I always call boons by their actual name.
solid hazel
@woven delta well you take poseidon flourish obvs
@primal hazel I think any knock back works
west junco
i'm pretty sure you can, but i've been trying for 2 runs without success. Can you get the arti/ares duo on beo shield?
i had so many chances
woven delta
Hmm
solid hazel
I think not... But not sure
west junco
in the req it says cast or flare
primal hazel
Oh well
solid hazel
Then you probably can
primal hazel
Then you answered the question yourself
woven delta
So knowing that it can trigger off any knockback effect, what would you suggest for an attack boon?
primal hazel
Idk why you'd waste a bei run
Just play hunting blades on achilles
neon vigil
LMAO
solid hazel
Flare is beo only thing... If they bother to put flare in prereqs you can probably get it
magic stone
Yes
solid hazel
Nice.
neon vigil
I think I'm more proud of that than slaying Hades.
potent kayak
so aspect of hera with triple flare, snow burst and ravenous will is so fun !
i just nuked people with cast
i had perfect shot and twin shot but i did most of my damage from my cast alone
especially against redacted
i can see why people enjoy using hera with the cast interactions and right boons its so good
i had drunken dash but it didnt really do a lot for me
primal hazel
Why twin shot with hera
tranquil violet
Yeah but the extra damage from the attack itself doesn't hurt
primal hazel
The reduced range does
tranquil violet
It's a trade off but not a purely negative one
primal hazel
Also now it's less reliable to line up the casts
tranquil violet
Hera can work very well as a shotgun build too
primal hazel
Well I'm not saying purely negative
Mostly
tranquil violet
Especially with Stygian and some extra casts from Chaos/Artemis
primal hazel
Hera is the only aspect I prolly don't play melee
Along with hestia
Well that's totally unrelated to twin shot regarding hera> Especially with Stygian and some extra casts from Chaos/Artemis
@tranquil violet
potent kayak
@primal hazel i was going for a close range build at first but i had a lot of cast support so i ended up just going with it
solid hazel
Twin shot is a straight 2x multiplier to attack damage... Thats a ton, definitely worth the reduced range
primal hazel
Idk I prefer the range with hera
potent kayak
tbh hera close range did feel awkward for me at first
longe range is probably easier anyway since you gotta be up close and personal with twin shot i guess
but the damage is good
frank dew
well hera relies more on cast dmg anyway so while the attack dmg is nice you dont loose quite as much
primal hazel
Preference thing ig
potent kayak
hera with triple flare felt good though