Lemme speak to god
#h1-builds-and-combat
still vigil
opal lodge
half of the popular all weapons builds are cast builds
opal lodge
but yeah ME is pretty robust up to 40 heat at least for me
still vigil
im so used to just slashing away
opal lodge
after that is not territory i have touched
solid hazel
setting up ME is so hard though....need 4 specific boons basically
opal lodge
yep
mossy light
i like the random element... so i like my duo boon builds. which usually mean casting.
opal lodge
i imagine thats why the record for dem fists doesnt go for it
AP makes it hard to get the 4 boons you need
solid hazel
curse of longing is so much easier to get even though it's clearly inferior dps wise
half crater
CoL is the exact same difficulty to get
cunning urchin
Getting ME isn't hard unless you're using RI AP CF.
half crater
the only difference with ME is you prolly want Divine Dash, but like... you prolly wanted that anyway let’s be real
opal lodge
true
solid hazel
well this is assuming you want divine dash paired with ME which makes it like...way more viable
yeah
so that's quite bit more of a requirement
opal lodge
i wish there just werent so many projectile spamming mobs
makes melee weapons feel so gimped at high heat
i hate it
solid hazel
curse of longing you can also get with a lot of different aphro prereqs
cunning urchin
They're all priority boons. So you can force them with relative ease.
solid hazel
ME you need specific attack and special for ares/athena
cunning urchin
If you have an Attack and a Cast, she'll 100% offer you either Special or Dash and then the other one after that, for example.
half crater
the true test of skill for melee is actually knowing which side of the map to go for first in those massive asphodel rooms
i swear i always find enemies in the last place i look
solid hazel
hide and go seek is a big fad in asphodel right now
still vigil
heard no lies
solid hazel
they should make an enemy that hides in pots, to troll players
half crater
yup and you’re dashing around madly looking for it lol
that would be legitimately hilarious
still vigil
and make me regret playing melee more?
solid hazel
woudl be a great april fools day joke haha
still vigil
i dun wanna deal with the horror of mimics XD
solid hazel
taht would probably take a week to program...
so it's never gonna happen haha
mimic boons haha
it looks like a boons but then it bites your head
still vigil
oh lort
opal lodge
piercing wave may actually be an A tier sword hammer
mossy light
Why. I don't get it
opal lodge
it works with dash strike
mossy light
I can turn my sword into a flurry shot bow with a third of the dps
opal lodge
which is more than can be said about the others
still vigil
isnt the dmg fixed tho
opal lodge
better than the 0 damage if you're not regular attacking
A tier hammer
goes double edge
piercing wave
then the field
mossy light
I reserve a tier for armor damage and grenades
solid hazel
lol so it's A tier because all the competition is garbage
still vigil
breachin cross fer the win
opal lodge
the best way to win
still vigil
for hermes
mossy light
The demon stab or whatever that affects the third stab, that one really bugs me
opal lodge
cruel thrust
mossy light
Thanks
solid hazel
I mean the fact that sword is best played as all dash strikes is the real issue
not that the hammers are bad
mossy light
I use attack-attack-special, it works fine
still vigil
a cruel thrust in us
opal lodge
if they made all of them in line with piercing wave some of them might be worth it on non-arthur swords
are you sure you're not dash striking?
standing attack is just straight up worse than dash strike on sword its tough
mossy light
Why is dash strike so special with sword? I use it as a starter but doing it consistently with a controller is a PITA
solid hazel
I'm not even sure that saying "dash strike is good" is correct, it's just the best thing on sword relatively
but sword just feels so much worse than other weapons
opal lodge
your entire sword attack sequence does 20-25-30
opal lodge
why do that whole slow sequence when you can just sacrifice a dash to do as much damage in much less time
mossy light
It's a pain to do tangential dashes with the sword
solid hazel
the other thing about dash strike is supposedly its safer than using attack special
cuz you end up further than most enemies melee range by the end of your second dash strike
although I suck with it, so it feels bad haha
still vigil
okay so im on the switch. how the aspect adjustments feel?
mossy light
Aspect adjustment?
solid hazel
I haven't played....I'm at the point in my life where I'm procrastinating playing video games too
it's sad
still vigil
yea some aspects got tweaks
opal lodge
ive seen a lot of hate for the guan yu change but havent tried it myself
lucifer is pretty cool now
still vigil
but i cant try it cause im on the switch
solid hazel
lol I was just reading the patch notes "Calculated risk: increased power level"
it's over 9000!
that is definitely not the way I would have stated it
solid hazel
I assume it means that projectiles are slowed more
that seems to be the only reasonable interpretation...
still vigil
ooo
solid hazel
not sure why they thought that was necessary
still vigil
athena by proxy is an even better god
solid hazel
I mean 40% was already a lot on a projectile
what's the hate on GY change, wasn't it a straight buff?
people just wanted it to go a different direction?
still vigil
the spin's prob still booty
solid hazel
oh so serrated tip got worse with it
still vigil
it's powerful but sooo risky
solid hazel
I mean GY is at least kinda interesting in that there's several different ways to play it
like dash strike, special focused, or even spin focused
none of them are that amazing haha, but at least they're different
still vigil
that sounds like goin to a buffet but all the food is 3/5 stars
solid hazel
sometimes I just want mediocre saag paneer and chicken tiki masala
as long as I can get a bit of everything haha
man I'm hungry...
still vigil
and buffets, like GY, are expensive
still vigil
im not aiming fer mediocracy fer a pricy toothpick
still vigil
that's the leftover seaweed from the mediocre buffet it came from
solid hazel
mmhm seaweed
that's what they used to purify MSG from, which is clearly the spice of the gods
still vigil
hear hear
solid hazel
I think they use some kind of mushroom now
still vigil
kinky
still vigil
jail fer you
but frfr it's a shame i dun feel that great about the hidden aspects mostly
solid hazel
they are all pretty different at the very least and I appreciate that
I think Arthur, Beowulf and Rama are quite strong also
still vigil
remember the mediocre buffet
solid hazel
well I do'nt think those three are actually mediocre
still vigil
well no, but high heat also says hello
kindred trout
I feel like Gilgamesh almost has to be pretty good just for the dashes, right? Like let's assume that both the attack and special are unusable. You can still take ruthless reflex and do up to 3 splashy dashes in a row with bonus damage if you dodged an attack. And I think ruthless reflex can buff cast damage?
solid hazel
I mean if you go high enough than there's only going to be a few viable strats
still vigil
beo and rama can hold their own fer obv reasons
solid hazel
so I dunno if that's really an argument for aspects being bad
rugged wave
how is a Poseidon sword curse of drowning build?
still vigil
but arent things supposedly kinda balanced with high heat in mind? @solid hazel
solid hazel
@kindred trout, my issue with ruthless is the duration is kinda short
kindred trout
I prefer Achilles for Curse of Drowning but Poseidon can work ok.
I wouldn't want to try to beat EM4 with it though.
still vigil
and if they arent makin the mark imo wouldnt that make fer an inferior aspect even if its fun
solid hazel
@still vigil...maybe but I wouldn't think so, the number of players that do high heat is pretty low
kindred trout
But then I personally am still struggling on EM4 with solid builds.
rugged wave
im just doing low heat curse of drowning for fun
solid hazel
I don't really ilke curse of drowning on anything exept malphon
it seems like you don't want to be close with most of the other weapons
opal lodge
if things were balanced for high heat melee weapons would do much more damage or have some built in damage reduc
solid hazel
it would be catering to too much of a minority of the player base I think
only 4.3% players have beaten 16 heat
turbid needle
Considering the achievement has only been out since release, it's actually bigger than I expected
solid hazel
looking at the steam achievement for second skelly prize
only 4.3% have unlocked that
solid hazel
I acutally wouldn't expect that number to change very much
I think the players they got now are pretty representative of their player base
so any new players that buy the game would probably play through high heat or quit before 16 heat at similar rates
mellow quest
i suppose that's why there's no cheevo for the 32 statue
solid hazel
maybe...I wonder if they put that much thought into it
mellow quest
honestly the best part about going through Styx is the music
solid hazel
I do'nt even know what songs play there haha
still vigil
there's music?
mellow quest
Gates of Hell
still vigil
i just zoot
solid hazel
does Final Expense (Payback Mix) play during Charon boss fight?
willow fossil
yes
solid hazel
Unseen ones is sick too
I wonder what connection they had to get the artists featured on it
cuz those guy are kinda a big deal in Japanese OSTs
mellow quest
Darren Korb has done music for every Supergiant game
willow fossil
hes irl orpheus
mellow quest
I always want to play Bastion again after hearing one of its OSTs
solid hazel
yeah, I was talking about the two artists featured in Unseen ones, Masahiro Aoki and Daisuke Kurosawa
Masahiro did a bunch of classic capcom stuff
mellow quest
ah, got you
solid hazel
and Daisuke is like some DDR and Guitar Freaks
they're like big names in video game industry music
tulip jacinth
What’s the best Mirror of Night build? Or one that you guys recommend
solid hazel
uhh that's a complicated question
it depends on aspects and which pacts you take
and heat level
I mean what kind of runs are typical for you right now?
willow fossil
tldr, theres no best, it depends on you
solid hazel
well I believe there's a opitimal answer assuming your problem is well-defined
opal lodge
it depends on whatever weapon you are using and what heat you are at
also to a lesser extent your playstyle
solid hazel
and also if your bounty hunting or collecting darkness
so it depends on a lot of stuff haha
lost badger
Eh, but there’s still only a couple ones you’d really switch up, and usually only for specific builds. Haelian’s guide was pretty good.
mellow quest
pretty much the only easy answer to that is greater reflex is way better than ruthless in the vast majority of runs
solid hazel
I actually disagreed with a lot of stuff Haelian said...I think he's spent too long playing in high heats that he's neglecting other use cases
mellow quest
even gilgamesh, the dashes are a little shorter ranged so the 4th dash matters a lot
solid hazel
well I kinda think the bonus from ruthless is still worth more than a longer dash on gilgamesh....
but I don't feel strongly about it haha
willow fossil
pretty much the only easy answer to that is greater reflex is way better than ruthless in the vast majority of runs
I love RR
mellow quest
ruthless is fun but entirely dependant on seeing extra dashes off hermes if you ever want to have enough dash range to escape dad spins reliably
willow fossil
i hate having more than 1 dash, just a me thing
still vigil
ruthless is fun?
cunning urchin
dash range to escape dad spins reliably
You don't need range to i-frame spins. You just need timing.
woven delta
Honestly I think I only ever used Ruthless with Twin Fists and Zag aspect
mellow quest
that timing is very hard when you're on FO2
solid hazel
or you could rely on the 50% dodge from RR too haha
still vigil
i dash perpendicularly to hades
woven delta
Mostly for that potentially huge dodge chance
Throw in Plume for potentially up to 90% dodge
cunning urchin
You'll still need to empty-dash with Divine Dash lol.
solid hazel
now that everybody is here...does Divine dash actually add i-frames or does it just nullify attacks?
cunning urchin
It doesn't add i-frames.
solid hazel
k that's what I thought but other people were saying that
still vigil
i think
solid hazel
but after being in ths community for like 2 months...I take almost everything with a grain of salt
woven delta
But it does make you deflect during the entire dash, so it's like having more I-frames in a sense
mellow quest
it feels like it adds i frames just because of how good it is. but really that's just because deflect stronk
still vigil
so technically it does add iframes
solid hazel
like I think it feels like it adds i-frames because like you dash through any part of a melee hit box, and it nullifies the whole thing
still vigil
solid hazel
so even if you say mis-time Hades spin, you still won't get hit by it as long as you touched his hitbox at all
woven delta
it doesn't add I-frames, but deflect makes it feel that way
cunning urchin
Divine Dash doesn't cover your entire hurtbox if you Dash-Strike, but you can still be safe from attacks in some directions.
cunning urchin
that timing is very hard when you're on FO2
But you can practice it, though. That's what you gotta deal with at high heats with RI3 FO2.
rare kayak
so whos gonna mod in fo5
solid hazel
what's left with RI3? just the defiance, presence and useless healing cuz you're probably running LC?
cunning urchin
holy shield add iframes
Yes. You can see that when it procs on the lasers from a Snakestone, for example. It has a CD, though.
Yep. Just those three.
solid hazel
at leas tyou still have shadow presence, clearly the best mirror talent
rare kayak
someone should make a mod that mods in extra levels of fo and then we see how high we can crank it before we give up
cunning urchin
Shadow Presence is really good, yeah.
solid hazel
well I being sarcastic, it's good, but not clearly the best talent haha
cunning urchin
lol I could probably still do FO4.5 against most enemies. That's just FO2 + Speeder.
mellow quest
i don't like sitching to firey because it means no 50% backstab bonus. but there's stuff like exploding launcher that can't backstab anyway
rare kayak
but anything that helps kill the shield bearers better is good in my book
yeah but the bosses nyaanyaa
fo4.5 hades
lets go
cunning urchin
Shadow Presence wins.
mellow quest
it's not close lol. shadow is better on the vast majority of builds/weapons.
cunning urchin
On most things.
solid hazel
yeah...that's why I'm not doing it haha
solid hazel
but it'd be nice to know when it crosses over I guess
rare kayak
fo4.5 spear throw skewers you and sends you back one biome
opal lodge
fiery probably better for hestia and beowulf right
cunning urchin
At FO4.5, you can probably i-frame two spear throws with one dash. So there's that.
opal lodge
maybe for hera bow too?
rare kayak
oh true true
opal lodge
idk im spitballin
mellow quest
on Eris it doesn't matter if you have shadow or fiery, you just nuke everything anyway. 
rare kayak
but when is hades gonna use hammer to give himself chain skewer
so that he can bounce spear off walls into zag
cunning urchin
Fiery Presence does more for most cast builds.
solid hazel
if you get parting shot, you'll wish you took shadow presence on hera bow
cunning urchin
Since casts can't normally backstab.
mellow quest
does the beowulf aoe backstab ever? not sure
opal lodge
shadow presence makes a slight but noticeable difference for eris
rare kayak
apparently beowulf works with power shot which i did not know
opal lodge
whereas fiery basically might as well do nothing
rare kayak
its pretty interesting/funny to see though
solid hazel
but I mean on cast builds it's almost a moot point, because neither fiery nor shadow work on casts
mellow quest
firey matters if you have rocket bomb/special boon for elyisum and styx
it's a lot faster
opal lodge
ive always just relied on the backstab against bosses
mellow quest
75% additive
opal lodge
cant the rocket backstab too though
rare kayak
yea
mellow quest
rail special never backstabs
woven delta
Actually, how does Firey do when you're just using something like the Bow or Rail, like the kind of weapons you don't usually go for backstabs on
cunning urchin
Sure Fiery Presence works on casts.
mellow quest
lol
rare kayak
honestly ive never run fiery except the one time it was required so i cant say
mellow quest
backstabs are still worthwhile on bow. even rama.
rare kayak
i dont pay attention to numbers anyway
opal lodge
backstabs are huge on rama
solid hazel
@cunning urchin on the tool tip pop up for Fiery presence in the mirror it says attack and special damage only
cunning urchin
It does?
opal lodge
you get can skip entire boss phases with something like triple point blank shot
rare kayak
lmao
solid hazel
yup just looked again to make sure
cunning urchin
Lol that's sad.
opal lodge
that is a bad mirror talent
solid hazel
also I'm gonna have to memorialize today as the one time I was right over you @cunning urchin
mellow quest
and yeah it doesn't affect casts
winter carbon
Yeah a 75% that's only useful on the first hit versus 50% that you can get during the fight is pretty difficult to justify
Unless I'm missing something
cunning urchin
That's okay. I don't really do cast builds anyway.
solid hazel
wow I can't believe they "nerfed" it down to from "100%", although it was bugged
cuz like it's still bad even if it was 100%
cunning urchin
I just assumed it's good for those.
mellow quest
it would be if it worked
solid hazel
it doesn't even work on enemies that have lost all their armor iirc
opal lodge
although actually if it were me id take shadow presence on hestia for the extra damage vs bosses idk
mellow quest
hestia you still want shadow to backstab with the empowered shot on bosses.
winter carbon
But you have to use it once for the prophecy!
woven delta
So basically Firey is mostly kind of useless outside some very niche stuff?
solid hazel
I can think of one or two very fringe cases where it might be good
like if it made bow special capable of one-shotting firewheels
winter carbon
Yeah I guess if you stack it with Chaos buffs that do the same thing it could be neat maybe
mellow quest
it's 1 consistent fringe case I can think of is rocket bomb eris. and that's if you have DC off.
opal lodge
doesnt feel like such a fringe nowadays
i guess itd be better for the perfect cluster rocket run?
idk
solid hazel
it is better at clearing some mobs I'm sure
maybe not hard mobs though haha...so
anyway that one guy that asked about how to build his mirror talents
got one very in depth answer about the first talent
and that's it haha
solid hazel
that's the third talent
opal lodge
love how cthonic vs dark regen isnt a consideration
mellow quest
dark regen is more hp once you've cleared all the bounties out. and even just 1 rank of LC makes vitality really weak
opal lodge
this is your brain on high heat
rare kayak
id still use sd for lc3
cunning urchin
@solid hazel shut up. 🔫
mellow quest
and then it becomes an irrelevant mirror talent entirely on lc4
rare kayak
actually
how did zeus mount the head of a medusa onto aegis when a medusa is nothing but head
woven delta
I generally use Boiling Blood since it can help for quickly killing bosses
solid hazel
lol against the grain, I feel pretty strongly the Cthonic is better than Dark without LC
woven delta
Maybe it's just decorative?
solid hazel
I use boiling blood on attack and special focused builds and abyssal on cast builds
woven delta
Anyways, I generally run Stygian Soul unless I'm using a weapon + aspect that works better with Infernal Soul
mellow quest
abyssal is cute. that is all
opal lodge
i always use cthonic but i also know its probably worse
woven delta
Mostly Stygius + Aspect of Poisiden
mellow quest
it depends entirely on if you are picking up darkness in the boss rooms
rare kayak
i feel like over a run chthonic results in more healing
solid hazel
@rare kayak the answer is more complicated than people make it out to be I think
mellow quest
if you are getting bounties you aren't getting darkness there
woven delta
Infernal that'ss what I meant
rare kayak
and you’re mostly picking up big darkness right after a boss where youre already getting big heals after anyway
solid hazel
the thing with dark regen is that you're often taking darkness at the same time you have fountains availble
rare kayak
unless you trove it
solid hazel
so you run into the issue of max hp preventing dark regen from healing as much as it doe son paper
woven delta
I sometimes just type things down differently from what I want to say
woven delta
But yeah, outside Aspect of Poisiden, I don't really bother with Infernal Soul
solid hazel
I think infernal is better in most cases than stygian
if you use a cast that lodges, on most mobs it'll kill them immediately so you can pick it up
and you'll get more casts per second than Stygian
mellow quest
inferanal is nice even if you don't plan to use casts all that much. like being able to toss out 3 electric shots to clear out numbskulls, witch clusters, flamewheels, etc
woven delta
Though Apect of Poisiden + Exit Wounds + Lightning Rod is definitely an interesting build if nothign else
opal lodge
infernal is also pretty good for some beo cast builds
solid hazel
on a lot of the casts that odn't lodge, the timeing on drop rate is skewed a lot in that those casts don't typically last 10 seconds
so infernal still might be more casts/second
mellow quest
infernal is good for every beo cast build except trippy flare.
solid hazel
the main advantage of stygian is you don't have to pick up your casts, and it starts to get better with fully loaded
rare kayak
infernal also means you get to take ravenous soul if for whatever reason you want to take it
woven delta
Or really, anything that grants permanent extra Bloodstones
mellow quest
ravenous will can be offered on stygian soul still.
solid hazel
well getting two extra casts without fully loaded is probably more rare than getting fully loaded
woven delta
I managed to get to 5 once via Chaos and Auto Load (or whatever Atermis' legendary is called)
mellow quest
3 seconds is a long time.
opal lodge
its good
solid hazel
Ravenous soul is fine with stygian if you're using hera/beo
mellow quest
and 10% damage resistance and 10-40% global damage is good.
solid hazel
where you load all your casts before firing
opal lodge
if i told you that you could do increased damage every 3 seconds its still good
solid hazel
you'll always hae the extra 10% with ravenous in those cases
opal lodge
thats basically what billowing strength does
for some perspective
be funny if you could decrease mirror talents
mellow quest
you also get the benefit of ravenous will on that cast you fire if you only have 1 stone still.
opal lodge
like id love to have a 5 second reload on stygian for eris lol
solid hazel
40% damage reduction is insane too...
solid hazel
I thought if it's heroic it goes up?
oh okay haha
nvm...10% damage reduction is not bad either
lol I fixed it
woven delta
Actually while I'm thinking of it, Boiling Blood vs. Abyssal Blood?
mellow quest
but 10% DR in one boon is higher than average.
woven delta
I prefer Boiling myself
mellow quest
and DR is one of those things, the more you have the more effective it is for your HP.
solid hazel
so on cast builds abyssal is the only one that does anything...
although half your cast builds don't lodge anyway, so in that case neither does anything
@mellow quest right you are, that's something that I've seen a bunch of youtube guides get completely wrong
they say it has diminishign returns...pfft
mellow quest
even on cast builds the bonus from boiling is still relevant. like posideon specials to dislodge the stones, achillies doesn't have reduced drop time innately, hera still uses the attack very often.
solid hazel
I mean yeah...but it depends how much of your damage is coming from attack/special on these "cast builds"
the 25% DR and attack speed is probably better
I'm not sure I consider hera a pure cast build, hence the quotes
it's kinda a cast/attack hybrid
that's why it's actually good even though it doesn't make your casts stronger, it benefits from both attack and cast boons
it's extremely action efficient playstyle
mellow quest
golden touch/deep pockets is another easy one. meme run or buying the meta currency at pretty low heat? touch. everything else? pocket time
solid hazel
yah agreed on that one
cunning urchin
Hera actually likes shotgunning with the Special after you fired off your casts.
solid hazel
mmhm that 's a good point...so it uses almost everything
solid hazel
just get smoldering air and everything becomes a call build haha
mellow quest
extremely relevant if you get charged volley
still vigil
ooo
solid hazel
sigh I should sleep...I got a 7:30 meeting where the CEO gets to make excuses about why so many people are gonna be laid off
still vigil
so should i take green side of abyssal blood with aphro if i wanna be a tanky gal?
oh dear
solid hazel
it would probabl ymake you mega tanky
probably overkill on defense though
but the memes are important
woven delta
Also while I'm thinking of it, would you guys say Chiron Aspect + Lightning Flourish is comparable to the Hangover one?
woven delta
Really?
solid hazel
yeah lightning flourish is the one thing everybody thinks will be good on Chiron, but then there's a hidden mechanic that actually makes it garbage
we probably get this question once a day haha
woven delta
Hm
solid hazel
Drunken flourish or Deadly flourish is the way to go usually
Deadly needs to get some other additive damage to keep up though
like chaos boons for special or boiling blood
cunning urchin
Heartbreak Flourish, too.
cunning urchin
Probably not.
woven delta
Well at least I know that one Chiron + Hangover run was just strong on it's own now
Curse of Nasuea + Splitting Headache probably helped there too
solid hazel
low tolerance is what I usuallay go for
cuz aphro attack and dio special make PS awesome for chiron bow
and you have to hit with both anyway so it's not really much worse than FF
cunning urchin
I just did 40 Heat with just Drunken Flourish + Heartbreak Strike and no Duo fwiw.
Forgot to turn on Privileged Status too lol.
solid hazel
lol shame
Curse of Nasua or splitting headache better on that...
hmmm. gotta crunch some numbers
cunning urchin
Splitting Headache because Deadly Strike.
woven delta
Or the cast
solid hazel
even without low tolerance?
Splitting headache only gets to 7.5% crit chance without low tolerance
woven delta
I actually had Ares on the attack for that run
solid hazel
12% with low tolerance
woven delta
...good point
cunning urchin
Deadly Strike is way better than Curse of Agony on bow.
mellow quest
it still is a 7.5% crit chance on a .5 second tick rate of hangover
solid hazel
12% crit is what a 24% global damage increase?
cunning urchin
@solid hazel yes.
woven delta
I mean I figured that since Bow was somewhat slow with attacks Doom would probably help a bit with keeping damage up
cunning urchin
It will also proc Hunter's Mark a lot.
solid hazel
vs Curse of Nausea is like 66% increase to just your hangover damage
mmhm...it kinda depends I think
it's close I'd need to see how much of the damage is from hangover vs special damage and attack damage
but it's way too late for me to try to approximate that
cunning urchin
But you need to play with Curse of Agony until you get Curse of Nausea lol.
solid hazel
it depends how long the enemy stays alive
you can get it with curse of vengence too haha
cunning urchin
Curse of Vengeance doesn't do anything, though. 
solid hazel
it does if it gets your Curse of Nausea
solid hazel
tons of my crappy builds have turned into vengeful mood builds haha
then I usually die anyway, but it's funny at least
cunning urchin
@solid hazel begone, blackguard! 🔫
woven delta
So basically from what you're all saying, Low Tolerance + Splitting Headache is better than Curse of Nausea + Splitting Headache?
solid hazel
umm I'm not sure...but probably
incidentally I never knew how to pronounce blackguard until Theseus started calling me that non-stop
well I think splitting headache is way worse without Low tolerance
opal lodge
isnt splitting headache basically just a slightly better PP
cunning urchin
Difference doesn't matter much to me because I'm not picking up Curse of Agony on bow either way.
solid hazel
boom see this guy knows stuff
cunning urchin
I'll take Drunken Flourish in Tartarus and pick up either Deadly Strike or Heartbreak Strike—whichever I see first.
solid hazel
I mean...how many times have I picked up curse of agony because I got ares and I don't want rifts or any of his other core stuff...
cunning urchin
Force Heartbreak Strike in Asphodel if I don't have either yet.
solid hazel
curse of vengence and urge to kill are some of my most picked boons...just cuz I didn't want anything else from Ares
opal lodge
sometimes i'll begrudgingly take slicing shot just to fill a core boon slot if ares is unavoidable
and then i'll somehow end up with hunting blades
solid hazel
the problem with slicing shot/ ares call/blade dash, is he'll start offering even more useless crap like black metal and engulfing vortex
cunning urchin
I take Slicing Shot if I have anything from Lady Artemis already. Why not?
cunning urchin
Engulfing Vortex is good.
solid hazel
do you know how it affects ares call btw?
does it make small calls x longer and full call also just x longer or 4x longer?
solid hazel
yeah I remapped codex to R3 and reload to L1 a long time ago
woven delta
I moved Special to M2 and Cast to M3 a while ago
It feels a lot more natural to me I think
solid hazel
that make sense...yo udon't often dash cast
bu tyou dash special enough that's it's annoying if they're not next to each other
might need to try it
turbid needle
... seeing the terms for controller input mapping still surprises me a bit, been playing with KB&M too much lmao
opal lodge
special is m4 and call is m5 for me
i actually have no clue where my m3 button is
m2 is still cast
well
now its reload for hestia i guess
cunning urchin
I have no idea. I never take Ares' Aid lol.
woven delta
M3 is usually clicking on mousewheel
opal lodge
ew
woven delta
Any side buttons on your mouse work as well
turbid needle
Usually related to the middle-click, which is often under the mousewheel yeah
solid hazel
oh haha It hought these were x-box controller terms
turbid needle
for M3 that is
solid hazel
eww KB&M players..gross don't touch me
woven delta
I usually take Ares' Aid as a bit of an invulnerability thing for Hadess
solid hazel
I just ate a pop-tart that like changed phases in the toaster
I probably should hae been scared that it was expired...but I was hungry
mellow quest
i can never get the 7th pulse of dio's call to apply. only ever 6 stacks with low tolerance
wonder what causes that
opal lodge
isn't it up to 8?
or am i remembering low tolerance wrong
also im really liking these hestia binds
i hope they add weapon specific keybinds it'd be a huge QoL change
mellow quest
it's up to 8 but dio's call has 7 pulses in the lesser version
but you only ever get 6 off it
solid hazel
Mmhm literally unplayable
wide hornet
Any specific gods i should go for with the twin fists
west trail
Any boon and hammer suggestions for guan yu?
acoustic venture
How do people make Hestia builds work
robust anchor
i am a big fan of charged skewer
acoustic venture
Felt like the game was fighting against me the entire time
robust anchor
i am a big fan of art attack on hestia
relod then pew then reload then pew
you can special or dodge while waiting for reload
acoustic venture
I got Aphro
robust anchor
yes aph also works
acoustic venture
And Doom Special
But my damage was just super lacking
It was like a worse Rama or Arthur, bc I had to do a manual input to get the damage
proven osprey
Any boon and hammer suggestions for guan yu?
@west trail Heartbreak strike/Deadly flourish, charged skewer. Special build mostly
void fjord
Or athena strike to throw out a flying deflecting donut
rare kayak
hm
yknow
with enough mouse buttons you could play hades with one hand
dash to cursor and you dont even need movement keys
tranquil violet
That makes me think
I'm pretty sure I have plenty of buttons on my Index knuckles for Hades, even without gesture mapping.
I should play it in big screen mode just for ishs and gigs
Though I'm waiting for Cross Saves to buy it again on PC
turbid needle
Though I'm waiting for Cross Saves to buy it again on PC
i really like how witcher handles cross saves from gog, steam and switch
left peak
full nova
what's a good way to build out aspect of eris?
proven osprey
Zeus attack, a lot of Zeus. Poseidon dash and get their duo
still estuary
One message removed from a suspended account.
proven osprey
Which do you guys recommend here
@left peak Breaching cross
elfin pawn
If you stack Deus Ex Machina to 60% and max out Aspect of Arthur (+40% damage reduction while in Special) does it just give you straight up 100% damage reduction or does it not stack like that? It'd be pretty funny to just get 100% damage reduction
primal hazel
Support fire
Damage reduction isn't calced like that
Damage Resistance: So if an enemy deals 30% less damage and you take 20% less, that's 0.7 * 0.8 = 56% damage taken, or 44% reduced damage taken
More like (1-a%)x(1-b%)x(1-c%)x...x(1-n%)
In general damage reduction and dodge are calced in a reductive multiicative way
unkempt scroll
20% chance to crit 99 with 12 shots of aspect of Chiron. Fun
Six rerolls, and not a single special dmg % from Chaos 😐
elfin pawn
@primal hazel Yeah I am not a math person sooo
primal hazel
Basically every damage reduction you get gets seperately subtracted from the damage you'd take
And those get then multiplied
Otherwise it'd be reasonably easy to achieve 100% damage reduction
unkempt scroll
Lol... First time I've only took 1 dmg from Lernie, and it was from lava. On Em2, even
primal hazel
Lava is the deadliest enemy
outer cave
what do ya'll think is the easiest weapon/aspect/build for a first clear
cunning urchin
In general damage reduction and dodge are calced in a reductive multiicative wa
Dodge is additive.
outer cave
can you hit 100% damage reduction with boons
solid cairn
no
primal hazel
No
Neither with dodge
Dodge is additive.
@cunning urchin first time I hear of that
Afaik dodge calc is reductive multiplicative
dodge is: (1-x%) * (1-x%) * (1-x%)
thorny dirge
You can definitely do it with dodge https://clips.twitch.tv/KitschySpikyTomatoSpicyBoy
gray shore
Yeah @primal hazel you missed the revelationary science that was done
to confirm that dodge is additive
but people also suspect that this was a shadow change
that was done before 1.0? but that's just educated speculation
primal hazel
Wow why did no one @ me lol
primal hazel
Well at least i can delete that now
I was so happy that I understood Mafs and now they took that from me :/
primal hazel
Well at least I got a reason for playing zag fist now
gray shore
ya i actually
primal hazel
Might be the first vanilla aspect I like
gray shore
got my best time with lambent plume zag fist
didn't even highroll the hermes boons but
was regularly hitting 78% dodge so
i just all-inned final fight from the start
it's actually a strong combo
primal hazel
So what can I take for zag fists aside plume and the hermes boon?
drifting vale
Petition for when summon bouldy bouldy stays on screen
vagrant olive
Um excuse me why is there 3 bosses in one room
drifting vale
EM
drifting vale
Extreme measures
vagrant olive
That’s 3v1 that;s not fair
drifting vale
It's like 1.5v1
drifting vale
The other two furies don't stay they just support
oblique forge
its just some random extra attacks thankfully
drifting vale
I feel like 1.5 is more accurate cause they don't move really
oblique forge
thank god for fountains
drifting vale
Still more damage
oblique forge
ok but
so daedalus hammers
where does he get them all
does he just
have a drawer dedicated to hammers?
primal hazel
He's a smith
drifting vale
Hes dead hes got nothing else to do
primal hazel
He forgets hammers with hammers
drifting vale
Ye
oblique forge
over the course of my 38 successful attempts, thats 76 hammers.
thats a LOT of frickin hammers!
drifting vale
Hes dead and he likes hammers
primal hazel
Well no
oblique forge
he has a hammer basement
primal hazel
Since he throws them out all the time
drifting vale
He makes them and then yeets them out
primal hazel
So people can find them
oblique forge
but why does he throw em out
drifting vale
Why do anything
primal hazel
Whoa no getting deep here
mellow quest
the little flavor text when picking up a hammer mentions he intentionally discards them for others to use
oblique forge
fair
drifting vale
One day i want to see a hammer just fall down onto a wringer and the wringer grabs it
gray shore
@primal hazel Greater evasion, Second wind and Lambent plume+ zag fists
are the only sources I can think of?
which are all obviously hermes
oblique forge
how high could dodge go I'm assuming?
gray shore
100%
primal hazel
Also ruthless reflex
gray shore
oh yah that's a thing
drifting vale
Yeah thats 50% right there
gray shore
although I don't think he used it for test
oblique forge
whats ruthlless reflex
gray shore
he used greater reflex for his test
primal hazel
Well time to face tank
gray shore
ruthless is after a close dodge
primal hazel
"tank"
gray shore
gain 50% dodge and damage
oblique forge
d a m n
snow vapor
Is Talos preferred on twin fists until Gilgamesh?
I was going to go crit but I make just go Zag fists
drifting vale
Demeter big damage
snow vapor
and hermes plume for the dodge
drifting vale
Theyre both really strong
vagrant olive
Ok imma just take the diamonds from the 2nd boss and then im going back to the bow because it’s my comfort zone
primal hazel
Or learn the weapon
drifting vale
Keep going until you die you might surprise yourself
snow vapor
I like Coronacht except for when I'm fighting poisoned bois
primal hazel
Because you're bound to clear with all of em for bounties
snow vapor
yeah
vagrant olive
Im weak
primal hazel
Then get stronk
snow vapor
oh
vagrant olive
hollow knight flashback
primal hazel
Happens
oblique forge
my favorite weapon boon combo is crits on Arthur
vagrant olive
Assuming you have the attack is faster from hermes
primal hazel
Even without
vagrant olive
Is that what the swird is called?
oblique forge
its an aspect
vagrant olive
Also praise dionysus’s positive outlook
gray shore
dionysus has some really interesting EHP options for sure
vagrant olive
Oh my, that;s a gun in the chamber
gray shore
I like high tolerance as well for that
vagrant olive
How did i unlock that
vagrant olive
Anda. Fist
gray shore
how is it meh
vagrant olive
Where did i unlock them?
oblique forge
I was never a fan of the gun
primal hazel
Playing in controller?
gray shore
well you can say that
you don't like the playstyle
or its design
but it's a strong weapon
oblique forge
I play on switch
vagrant olive
Im playing hades on a touch pad and keyboard. Probably a bad idea but works for me
cunning urchin
Reduced healing?
gray shore
it's probably my least favourite playstyle of weapon
cunning urchin
What's healing?
proven osprey
Nyx said that you get stronger without the mirror
vagrant olive
Is heat mandatory for the story?
primal hazel
No
proven osprey
at some point you don't need it
cunning urchin
I don't need to state my superiority.
vagrant olive
Hmm
cunning urchin
It's implied.
vagrant olive
How many times do I have to escape?
primal hazel
I don't need to state my superiority.
@cunning urchin well why do you keep doing it then
vagrant olive
For like, the offical end of the game
primal hazel
There is no escape
vagrant olive
But is there an officak ending?
primal hazel
10
cunning urchin
Why do cats play with their prey?
vagrant olive
K
mellow quest
10 for credits
snow vapor
I'm using malphon and am only getting aphro boons again
vagrant olive
My goal is to escape with all heat on the 10th time then
Probably will give up before i do it but
Might aswell try
primal hazel
Well cats don't go to the mouse and say "well actually I don't need my teeth"
gray shore
is there anyone who considers Routine Inspection as legitimate heat for high level play?
cunning urchin
RI was pretty standard in 40+ runs before 1.0, but Dark Foresight is just too good know. You're giving up too much; there are easier options.
gray shore
thanks, that makes sense
primal hazel
That's nice to know
mellow quest
it's one of the last things to turn on when you're pushing 50+
scenic obsidian
boreal ermine
Hm what's more fun with Hestia rail: explosive fire, spread fire, ricochet fire?
mellow quest
the general rule with hestia is that if you see richochet fire you take richochet fire
worth pointing out, with spread fire the empowered shot is still the same. the following shots are short ranged. it is very awkward.
boreal ermine
Maybe go ricochet then thanks
cunning urchin
Yeah, Spread Fire doesn't affect Empowered Shot.
primal hazel
There are only 3 hammer strat affect your hestia shot
cunning urchin
I'd put Piercing Fire as #1 for Hestia.
mellow quest
i always forget about piercing fire
cunning urchin
That armor damage is no joke.
mellow quest
it isn't. i just find most of the armor damage hammers really boring.
but then there's breaching cross
fathom cargo
it's delicious on Gilgamesh.
primal hazel
Armor deleting is nice tho
cunning urchin
"Press A + X to delete armor."
fathom cargo
going for a shield run this time. which aspect would y'all recommend?
fathom cargo
i-is that right?
cunning urchin
Stygian Soul, Overflowing Cup, grab Trippy Flare.
fathom cargo
I haven't really liked the cast aspects much, is it actually good on Naegling?
fathom cargo
I've played all of them except for Beowulf......
time to dump all my ambrosias to max it out, then. o:
primal hazel
Beowulf build: Heartbreak Strike, Heartbreak Flourish, Passion Flare, Divine Dash, Zeus' Aid, Smoldering Air. Make sure you use Infernal Soul, charged flight hammer
fathom cargo
with shield, I usually use a different dash than Athena's, actually!
I'll have to poke at Beowulf and see how I like things. c:
primal hazel
Well athena dash is good and fulfills your requirement for the Aphro/athena duo
fathom cargo
ahh, for bonus dragon rush damage, I see! o:
gray shore
all the cast weapons
are super amazing and fun imo
poseidon and achilles are the main ways i've been enjoying the weapons
primal hazel
It's the only way I can play achilles
By not playing achilles
And just playing casts
Until o had my leveled that way my way to get spear clears
fathom cargo
I really disliked Hera on Coronacht, honestly.
......that would mostly be because I suck with Coronacht and rely too heavily on Chiron. :')
primal hazel
Well then I really dislike you on this discord
Jk
Every bow and every shield aspect is massive poggers
cunning urchin
I'd rather play Zag bow than Nemesis.
primal hazel
Yeah but you're weird
winter carbon
With Artemis boons and rapid fire/twin shot, you can start pumping out some pretty serious damage as well
fathom cargo
......god, I want whatever you have going that you actually enjoy the bow.
I'm too twitchy and my aim sucks lmao.
primal hazel
Galaxy brain ig
winter carbon
Bow just turns Hades into a rhythm game
primal hazel
Thx for the compliments
winter carbon
ezpz
primal hazel
Auto aim ez
winter carbon
also always give a 
to
fathom cargo
if we could get the soundtrack to sync with power shot, then I'd probably enjoy bow a bit more.
true spade
Zag sword with Flurry Slash is hella fun; just hold down Y and pretend you're playing rail without reloading
primal hazel
also always give a
@winter carbon all for that ambiguity bonus
Or take delta chamber on rail
cunning urchin
It's your job to sync Power Shots with the soundtrack.
primal hazel
That's how to unlock the bows true power
cunning urchin
I hear you can unlock the secret ending if you can do it perfectly for an entire run.
And that unlocks the bow's true power, yes.
primal hazel
Spoiler tag?
winter carbon
The ambiguity bonus I assume doesn't do anything
mellow quest
are you doubting bouldy?
The ambiguity bonus I assume doesn't do anything
@winter carbon
winter carbon
Not at all, he believes in me
cunning urchin
It makes you more ambiguous.
primal hazel
It does everything
opal lodge
nemesis is fun because you only have to play through tartarus before knowing if the run is worth completing
cunning urchin
Amir, please fix Ambiguity Bonus. The wording is so ambiguous.
opal lodge
i think i maybe finish 1/6 nemesis runs at this point
cunning urchin
Why?
primal hazel
While playing nemesis I found out that I hate nemesis
opal lodge
i cant get the time i want unless i get native aphro /double edge in tartarus/asphodel
primal hazel
Possibly
primal hazel
Finally got additional dashes
Zag fists with 1 dash feels so scuffed
I need mobility
primal hazel
Also I get heart attacks from full plume runs
I hate not controlling what God shows up
cunning urchin
If you don't get Double Edge on Nemesis, you just gotta deal with the fact that you didn't get a hammer this run.
primal hazel
Have you ever played poseidon?
winter carbon
Poseidon is all about not using the sword though!
mellow quest
I attempted to do an elysium erebus gate and was immediately punished by double damage speeder chariots.
thank you
primal hazel
That's the fun part
cunning urchin
Elysium Infernal Gates are stupid.
Have fun with this Superelite Soulcatcher and Megagorgon.
Of course they only spawn when you go in with melee.
Always hide when you go in with Rama.
chilly nebula
for anyone playing on switch, what button do you set reload to when using hestia aspect?
in place of anything else
true spade
L1
cloud gull
yeah it's probably the best place for it
lone lava
Not just for hestia though, it's just better always
true spade
I put my effective reload on L1, so cast for Hera of Beowulf and reload for rail.
primal hazel
Who cares about reaching codex fast
cunning urchin
I put my effective reload on L1, so cast for Hera of Beowulf and reload for rail.
That's what I do, yeah.
chilly nebula
I've played the game with no control changes so far, 13 clears
lone lava
I put reload on L1 and cast on R1 so I don't have to change it
chilly nebula
now I'm wondering if anyone plays with a totally custom control scheme
lone lava
And changed interact to B
primal hazel
There are some kbm and controller elites out there
snow vapor
I'm going to try Aspect of Pose now
Anyone have a build they personally use or recommend?
cunning urchin
Eletric Shot is pretty quick and easy.
snow vapor
Aight
primal hazel
Poseidon Build: Athena or aphrodite cast, parting shot duo, exit wounds artemis|Parting shot (Aphro, athena), lightning phalanx (zeus, athena), exit wounds?
solid hazel
Definitely go Artemis as second God, exit wounds and fully loaded are both great for a lot of Poisedon builds
maiden wolf
TIL you can crit yourself with Hazard Bomb + PP
Really feels bad seeing that red 55!
primal hazel
Obvs
solid hazel
That's a lot... I thought it was only 3x damage
maiden wolf
I had some boons
solid hazel
And I thought hazard bomb was a flat 1% to you, but Im not sure
maiden wolf
Wiki says you deal 1% damage to yourself but i guess it isn't base damage
solid hazel
I don't tend to try to hit myself with it much haha
maiden wolf
Me neither 😬
solid hazel
@vo1di I actually didn't like lightning phalanx on Poisedon aspect
primal hazel
Lightning can be annoying cause it's p slow
solid hazel
By the time I got it, I was basically at hades and it does less damage in one bounce and doesn't louge consistently... So kinda anti synergy with Poisedon aspect
mellow quest
lightning phalanx sucks
solid hazel
Probably slightly better at mobs... But 3 normal phalanx shot should be good on those mobs too
mellow quest
easily one of the worst duos in the game
next moss
now I'm wondering if anyone plays with a totally custom control scheme
@chilly nebula switch here. Reload aspect is impossible with basic control scheme
proper flame
My controls are more similar to RL since thats the game I came from 🙂
turbid needle
^ the first thing i did before starting the game was remap the buttons, haha. i couldnt tell you what the original ones are, but i could tell u what every button does on my joycons
i've only gotten past hades like 3 times so i'm not gonna say it's the best layout for everyone but yah i like it
still vigil
yo peeps i got a duo from a trial boon
proven osprey
you liar
still vigil
who woulda thought
plain pewter
Yo does Hestia synergize with spread fire from Daedalus?
Or is it just a single shot like that
still vigil
you liar
@proven osprey how dare you
proven osprey
@proven osprey how dare you
@still vigil It's impossible !
still vigil
is it tho?