so i should use dio
#h1-builds-and-combat
honest jungle
pliant anvil
since it doesn't rely on duo boons
solid hazel
I mean, okay that's not a bad combo, but again it's a very small set of all cast builds
pliant anvil
Yeah, PS is not a general use talent
But when talking about shield builds, it's very relevant
As beowulf makes very good use of it
solid hazel
lol that's all I've been trying to say haha
what have we even been talking about then
honest jungle
im so confused
pliant anvil
also, it affects hangover too, which is a curse
solid hazel
sorry I got into internet arguments haha
pliant anvil
np lol
cunning ibex
I'm doing a trash run to get all of the mirror perks i don't like cleared with. decided to take Arthur along. Any advice?
pliant anvil
@honest jungle I would say start with dio, and aim for pomming it as much as possible
honest jungle
so quothe i should just use dio keepsake and how do i get the legendary triple shot
solid hazel
@honest jungle cast builds are just any build that focuses on the cast as your main damage
there's a lot of different viable ones, but everybody has their favorites
pliant anvil
@cunning ibex you can attack, dash, and then continue your chain with Arthur
honest jungle
wdym pomming it
honest jungle
but then what should i get with dio
pliant anvil
Also, fight in your aura as much as possible with arthur and consider grabbing deflect
If you grab dio first, focus on leveling that boon up
solid hazel
I recommend Hera bow with Dio cast with Stygian soul and focusing on getting Zeus/Dio and Demeter/Dio duo boons
pliant anvil
assuming it's gonna be your main source of damage
honest jungle
what boon should i get from dio
solid hazel
but poisedon aspect with poisedon cast, exit wounds, and mirage shot is amazing too
pliant anvil
with chaos? Special
honest jungle
chaos
frail schooner
why would you use stygian soul with hera bow
pliant anvil
Due to how trippy shot works
frail schooner
you gotta stack tf out those casts
pliant anvil
you'll generate more casts that iirc
because they don't pop out right away
you gotta wait for the cloud to end
frail schooner
oh fair point
solid hazel
@honest jungle chaos aspect is not oriented that much toward cast focused, it's special focused
frail schooner
if you have max hera bow i guess that works out
solid hazel
no maxed hera does nothing for dio cast
it doesn't go in enemies, it always stays until cloud dissipates
frail schooner
oh wait yeah i’m dumb
solid hazel
the reason stygian is nice on hera is you don't have to dive into melee range to pick up your cast again
frail schooner
i should do the math at some point but it’s def better if you have chaos boon
solid hazel
you kinda wanna be as far as possible
raven thicket
I've tried chaos a bunch of times but can still don't get how you're supposed to play with it
solid hazel
and outside bosses...like you don't really need to triple stack dio cast to kill that many enemies
@raven thicket chaos is in an awkward place in my opinion
I think you either decided to use it as crowd control, in which case you get Ares or Zeus special
honest jungle
yea im not doing a cast build nor did i say i was doing a cast build
raven thicket
Do you just go up and shotgun them?
solid hazel
or you use it as single target dps and then you probably want dio special
the issue I have with Chaos is that you relaly need both single target and AOE to have a successful run
and there's no easy way to guarantee both with that aspect
pliant anvil
yeah, it's one of the reason I prefer zeus
raven thicket
I tend to switch to Zeus aspect whenever I go shield, now
pliant anvil
zeus and zeus is a really strong combo imo
raven thicket
Zeus shield and artemis special 
solid hazel
I'm a fan of Zeus aspect too, the limiting factor is usually my own attention span though haha
pliant anvil
not like, speedrun top time viable, but reliable and does good AoE and ST
solid hazel
it can be hard to optimally manage the discus
but yeah Zeus on Zeus is the easiest way to play it
you can do some fun stuff with ME builds too
pliant anvil
yeah, ME can be fun, but I never get lucky and always end up not getting the deflect dash
raven thicket
ME?
solid hazel
Merciful End, the Ares/Athena duo
solid hazel
it's probably one of the most broken duos, but it's pretty difficult to set up
pliant anvil
yeah
but once it's set up it's really powerful
you can rapidly deal full doom damage (even with impending doom) over and over
solid hazel
yeah you pretty much need Divine dash on it, but it's not even a pre-req
so you need 4 specific boons just to get it going
solid hazel
it'd probably be dominating the build space if it was
I mean it's already considered top-tier even with those drawbacks
raven thicket
Supergiant plz
pliant anvil
but yeah, unlike most builds, ME is way more investment heavy. 3 boons for it to be ok, 4 for it to be better, then 5 to truly make it shine
solid hazel
what's the fifth one you thinking of? Impending doom?
solid hazel
right
west trail
Hey, I'm using the chaos shield and I've gotten up to heat 5 with it so far. It's a very good weapon! I was just wondering, which keepsakes are good to use? I was using the skelly and cerberus keepsakes but I feel like I don't need them anymore. Is it good to use a god keepsake, the one with the best boons for the build? Which god is good for chaos shield? I'm using ares right now but not for a particular reason
solid hazel
Most of my runs start with two god keep sakes for tarturus and asphodel
based on what gods I want to use for my build
solid hazel
well you take one for tarturus, and then you switch to a different god keepsake in asphodel
west trail
oooh right
solid hazel
I'm not really a fan of Chaos aspect tbh, but the way I build it is either Zeus/Ares special for crowd control
or Dio special and shotgunning into enemies for high single target damage
west trail
Not a fan because of the fun, or the power?
solid hazel
both I guess
I think it's a bit weak and also I do'nt like having to bull charge to use it's ability
west trail
ooh. It feels so powerful to me. when it's upgraded that is
hold square, block any attacks coming, let go and press triangle, launch 5 specials at once
solid hazel
not to like belittle you, but you're only at heat 5, so you haven't really upgraded many aspects
it's hard to see how powerful things are relatively until you've tried a lot of stuff
and like many aspects are weak until they're fully leveled
west trail
yeh, but i've not died since I first beat the game using it 😛 That's why it seems powerful
solid hazel
it's hard to experiment since titan's blood is so limited at first
there's definitely a phase right after you beat the game, where increasing heat is really easy
like IMO up to 20 heat is a pretty easy slide from 0 heat
west trail
I'm glad. I get to try out weapons
solid hazel
but there's a certain point where things become legit hard if you climb long enough and then you have to like use top tier stuff to keep advancing
tranquil violet
What are some good hammers for Nemesis?
crimson patrol
gilgamesh so good I feel great right now
got both athena divine dash expose and atermis attack crit. it deals like 1200 backstab damage
and the speed are ultra fast too
opal lodge
double edge is the only hammer for em
nem
idk
maybe a special hammer since you'll be using it a lot
none of the attack hammers are really relevant since you wont be standing attacking a lot
small stirrup
@tranquil violet Double edge & Flurry Swipe/Cruel Thrust
tranquil violet
Here's an interesting question:
Which god do you find you use the least?
I'd say it's pretty even but...
I guess another way to put it is which god's boons feel the most pigeonholed to certain builds rather than generally useful?
small stirrup
Poseidon
tranquil violet
Poseidon has some great boons though
small stirrup
Since I usually like to keep enemies close to me 
tranquil violet
Honestly I tend to take him mostly when I intend to Sea Storm
But his loot boons are good, hydraulic might is almost always good
small stirrup
I agree, I'd only take Poseidon for his duos and not for his core booons
tranquil violet
Dash and Call also great
small stirrup
But there are better alternatives in my opinion
tranquil violet
He does also have some great duos
small stirrup
I usually have an idea of what build I want with a weapon
And those builds consist of the best possible combination of gods
tranquil violet
I'd put Poseidon as solid all around tbh
Decent damage output, useful support boons
small stirrup
Great Duos
small stirrup
There is no such god that is outright terrible since all of them have a place in weapon metas
tranquil violet
Yeah but like some gods are very much associated with certain weapons
Aphrodite for heavy hitting slower weapons
Dionysus/Zeus for rapid hitting
hoary slate
..demeter for?
tranquil violet
Meme beams
hoary slate
ahh
tranquil violet
Demeter + Artemis duo is great lol
Also with Stygian soul and some extra casts from Chaos or elsewhere
And Glacial Glare
small stirrup
But it's always necessary if you wanna make beams work
tranquil violet
You can just drop so many beams
Yeah, beams require you to really focus on beams I feel
small stirrup
I still think that the Aphro Demeter duo is absolute garbage
tranquil violet
Cold Embrace?
Yeah I don't like Cold Embrace at all tbh
Every time I take it I regret it
small stirrup
Don't recall the name, but its the one where the beams point at you
small stirrup
But yeah like I said before all gods place somewhere in the meta, some more so than others
small stirrup
Agreed
tranquil violet
Definitely my pick for worst duo
small stirrup
What would be your pick for best duo?
tranquil violet
There are so many good duos
small stirrup
And if you had to pick?
tranquil violet
Would really be hard
But I do like the greatest hits like Hunting Blades, Sea Storm, Sweet Nectar, Smoldering Air, Crystal Clarity..
Oh and Merciful End obviously
And Heart Rend
See they're mostly all good
small stirrup
Smoldering Air is my favorite personally
tranquil violet
Smoldering Air is great because it changes how you use calls
Especially with some of the boons that give you buffs from calls
Makes it more of a self buff than something you try to charge up and then use for big damages
small stirrup
Very true
tranquil violet
Which is great with (full circle) Poseidon call
Poseidon call is always pretty decent
Invulnerability, decent damage, and acts like a super dash?
Ain't bad
Plus if you've got buffs from it?
I tend to prefer Bow and Spear for weapons fyi
So a little distance (say from Poseidon dash) is a plus to me
small stirrup
I think Dio's aid is amazing with smoldering air
tranquil violet
Haven't tried that one out much yet
There are definitely some duos that are just nice to have with their prereqs
And some which really force you to change up your playstyle.
Cold Embrace is way too far on the latter end of the spectrum, and not in a good way imo
Whereas like Hunting Blades is obviously better when you have a bunch of Ares boons on your death beyblades but it's also always good
Sweet Nectar is always great
On any build tbh
mellow quest
dio's aid is amazing even without smoldering air
it doesn't blind you like zues call, does similar damage, and doesn't need to be greater call to be strong
robust anchor
just curious what controllers you guys use for this game
tranquil violet
Switch Pro or DualShock 4
Same as most games haha
I really have a personal distaste for the Xbox controller but that's just me
It doesn't matter much, use what's comfortable to you and remap the buttons accordingly
I do think the default mapping should have cast and special swapped though. You want special and attack on adjacent buttons to dash (assuming you're not putting dash on a bumper or doing some insane claw grip)
I put cast on the top button, dash on the bottom, and attack and special on the sides
Since I don't ever need to do dash-casts but dash attacks and dash specials are pretty common.
I may try putting dash on a shoulder bumper though tbh
tl;dr controller matters less than bindings
small stirrup
I use both mouse and controller so I don't think my opinion would help 😅
tranquil violet
Use what's comfy to you
Play on DK Bongo controllers if you like
Though it'll be hard to avoid jamming out in some fights when the music gets intense
Also if you're gonna play Hestia probably remap the reload button
Pressing a stick isn't ideal for something you'll be doing so much tbh
hoary slate
Merciful End
small stirrup
@slow gorge Ares and Athena are great with Gilgamesh!
slow gorge
ooh okay thank u
small stirrup
No Problem!
west trail
Which is the best aspect for regular square attacks? I feel like the square attacks are often the most fun for me
Would it just be the zag weapons?
drifting vale
Im a pc player by square do you mean strikes?
west trail
I'm also a pc player
Square is the default attack
I'd assume clicking with a mouse?
wide hornet
wouldn't it just be attack then?
drifting vale
Yeah just left click is strike
wide hornet
(How do you spoiler messages)?
drifting vale
Anyway
Achilles hera and eris all boost your strike damage
|| do that before and after the message
analog sail
Can I suggest sword 4
wide hornet
Alright cool
west trail
Is that nemesis?
drifting vale
Yeah Arthur bonk hard
analog sail
No, the hidden aspect
west trail
Ohh right. The greatsword?
analog sail
Yeah
drifting vale
Nemesis also a very strong attack
analog sail
Its attack deals some damage
wide hornet
Any tips for fighting ||Hades||? I always seem to struggle with him.
west trail
Not got it yet, but that does seem cool. Not sure about all the health buffs though. I like offense :p
analog sail
You just need to learn his patterns, but mostly try to stay behind him
drifting vale
Its a slow attack big damage
west trail
If you see a white spin around him, get away or block because he'll do his hard hitting spin attack straight after.
drifting vale
Yeah really a big part of that fight is just learning what his moves are also you don't need to spoiler that fight in this chat
west trail
Oh nice. So sword 4 still competes with the others for damage?
wide hornet
Also is there any way to get titan blood back after spending it on aspects, i regret upgrading one of mine.
analog sail
Sword 4 is one of thr highest dps in the game
west trail
Well you can earn more quick! It's really only a problem before you get 1 win
Oh damn! Thanks thunder, I'm gonna try it out :)
I love dark souls, so I'll go for the dark souls str build then
wide hornet
i upgraded sword 2 like 3 times unintentionally
analog sail
At least base dps, ME will always be top
drifting vale
Just play how you want to play and try out the aspects they all do a lot of damage
west trail
You can use it to get more blood to upgrade the weapons you want
wide hornet
Any tips for the crit build?
west trail
ME?
drifting vale
Unless you are going 50 heat plus theres no competition
Merciless end athena and ares
west trail
Ah
How do you go about getting the duos? Start with one of the keepsakes, switch to the second?
drifting vale
@wide hornet get crit do big damage
Also since youre taking Artemis get support fire
drifting vale
Yeah thats certainly one way or just let the fates decide for you
west trail
Support fire is amazing
wide hornet
I assume sword 2 is the only real crit viable weapon
unless there is others that involve crit that i didn't realise
west trail
Atm I've just been picking what's best for me right now. I've not been planning ahead for future combos really
drifting vale
Zag bow has base crit
Like i said earlier theres no bad weapons all of the can use crit
wide hornet
Is there any god that outshines some of the other ones
i understand all of them are good
but are there any that are just simply better
half crater
ye bouldy outshines them all tbh
drifting vale
Aphrodite is usually the biggest damage
west trail
Not sure about better, but hermes seems to be worse to me
drifting vale
Someone after my heart i see
wide hornet
Aphrodite is the charm lady right?
west trail
Aha I've not had his good ones then. He seems super rare to me and I've only had bad ones
I'm pretty new though, so this is limited experience
wide hornet
Same goes for me with Aphrodite
drifting vale
The only bad one is maybe the restore lost health after dashing but even that can be life saving
wide hornet
So, whats good about Aphrodite? Because i don't really see where the damage comes from with her.
drifting vale
She has the highest base and scaling values
west trail
Aphrodite, artemis, ares, diamydus and Athena seem so good
spare scaffold
highest damage multipliers + Weak is basically giving you more eHP
Also is imo the most reliable status debuff to start with if you run Privileged Status
drifting vale
Id say dio
drifting vale
It's dionysus
wide hornet
Thanks
spare scaffold
Well, Dio/Aphro is just a godlike combo (heh)
west trail
Aha woops
spare scaffold
Uh Dio/Poseidon is not a cast duo
cloud jungle
Dio Poseidon is the best duo
analog sail
Aphro has a T2 that extends weak duration, and that makes it the most reliable status to keep on an enemy
spare scaffold
iirc that's Exclusive Access which more or less guarantees all boons afterward will be Epic
cloud jungle
Yep
spare scaffold
Very powerful the earlier you get it
rare kayak
oh wow
drifting vale
@analog sail if you're going for t2s as your argument then dio has a way to spread the debuff for you
spare scaffold
Peer Pressure needs your enemies to be very tightly packed in my experience but yeah it's good too
wide hornet
Doesn't Aphro/Ares have an infinite doom combo
cloud jungle
Yes
spare scaffold
I haven't gotten Curse of Longing enough times to form a concrete opinion of it
cloud jungle
Weak keeps taking doom damage
rare kayak
it halves doom every time
rare kayak
so you'd want the doom stack boon i think
half crater
CoL is alright but ME exists lol
wide hornet
And is going only for ares doom build good, compared to something like aphrodite
half crater
depends on weapon, but short answer is yes
spare scaffold
Well, Merciful End is probably among the most broken duos for me
drifting vale
I really wish people would stop degrading other boons just cause ME exists
spare scaffold
depending on the weapon though
wide hornet
I gotta ask what Merciful end is
drifting vale
Deflecting activates doom
rare kayak
if theres one thing merciful end has as a weak point its that for max op you need three core boons
spare scaffold
Any skill that can deflect will immediately activate/detonate currently active doom status
wide hornet
I see
half crater
I really wish people would stop degrading other boons just cause ME exists
@drifting vale i mean, if you're doing a doom build ME is just flat out better 90% of the time
drifting vale
Right but thats not how people are comparing ME
half crater
i'm only comparing it to CoL because they're both doom duos
wide hornet
Can you dodge ||Hades|| spear attacks , or do you just need to get away from them?
drifting vale
Many people compare ME to all other duos and its just such a sad way to think of the game thats mostly extremely well balanced
drifting vale
Normal
cloud jungle
Aphrodite Demeter though
spare scaffold
ME is damaging but honestly imo it can be clunky to setup if that's worth anything
wide hornet
Anything good with Zues btw? IMO it seems to be the weakest one.
drifting vale
Zeus mainly also gun
untold vortex
More zeus
half crater
with zeus you just get more zeus boons mostly
cloud jungle
Zeus is mega strong
spare scaffold
Zeus is good with more Zeus but Cold Fusion, Sea Storm can be good
cloud jungle
There’s lots you can do with Zeus
untold vortex
Cold fusion is fun
half crater
gun, fists and zeus aspect are all great for zeus
cloud jungle
You want to put Zeus on a low damage ability
untold vortex
Smoldering air is great
spare scaffold
Even without Splitting Bolt, getting High Voltage/Double Strike is a good time
wide hornet
so high attack speed
untold vortex
Lightning rod is pretty nice for non-cast builds
spare scaffold
Then Splitting Bolt on top and it's raining thunderstorms at whoever's on the pointy end of your stick
cloud jungle
High Speed low damage
tranquil violet
Smoldering Air is much better than it seems
cloud jungle
Yeah
half crater
double strike is a ridiculous damage increase lol
tranquil violet
Especially with the Zeus boons for buffs
half crater
even without splitting
cloud jungle
Then you want a percentage based attack on your other abilities
Like arty on sword attack
spare scaffold
btw the +lighting chain only works on Zeus attack/cast and not spec, dash right?
Storm Chain? forgot the name
cloud jungle
I believe so yes
half crater
storm lightning yeah
cloud jungle
Works with legendary too right?
half crater
it doesn't work on spec?
spare scaffold
should be
half crater
haven't run zeus shield in a while, but that seems weird
cloud jungle
I had Zeus on Zeus shield
spare scaffold
I assume it doesn't work on spec/dash because those are a different sort of lightning attack versus Thunder Strike/Electric Shot but I'd love to be corroborated here (or corrected)
cloud jungle
No duo excludes another duo, right?
cloud jungle
You can
half crater
or aphro/ares and arty/ares
drifting vale
You can get aphro and arti/dem
cloud jungle
Yeah
drifting vale
Ye
cloud jungle
It’s useless 😄
half crater
you defs can't get the two slicing shot boons tho
drifting vale
It's honestly a waste
drifting vale
I feel like theres one but i can't remember
half crater
nah you straight up can't get both slicing shot duos
if you get one the other won't come up
drifting vale
Ive never had the opportunity to maybe get both so i can't weigh in on that one
half crater
just repeating what i've heard
serene zealot
I thought that Aphro is lucky 😆
half crater
lol not getting offered storm lightning
from memory it does work tho
we'll see if i can find it in elysium
rain egret
Afro legendary work with lightening bounces?
half crater
aphro's legendary only works on attacks which inflict weak
languid dagger
hey, guys, quick question: I am a beginner so far (killed Hades just 5 or 6 times) and my Heat Gauge fills with just one condition. However, when I kill bosses with weapons I have already beat the game with - they give me crystals instead of titan blood/diamond/abrosia
how do I make them give me titan blood etc.?
overfill heat gauge?
half crater
you don't need to overfill the heat gauge; if its full you should be getting new bounties
half crater
you only get each bounty once for each heat level tho; so if you've already beat meg then the next time you try and that level you'll get darkness
yeah so you need to get the last bounty, the one from killing hades
languid dagger
i did kill him already with a blade 🤔
half crater
then you'll have completed 1 heat with the sword, and if you turn it up to 2 heat you can get more
you haven't killed him with 1 heat
languid dagger
ah, I see
and if I turn up the heat now I will still get crystals I guess?
for first three bosses
half crater
yeah
half crater
you can also switch weapons; each has its own bounty track
languid dagger
yeah, it's just blades turn now since it has double dark thirst
languid dagger
well yeah, I meant "double" in a sense that it gives gems as well
drifting vale
True still important to clarify what youre saying
languid dagger
damn, finally got Cursed Slash for Stygian Blade to fulfill the prophecy and it's so op
regretting I haven't changed mirror's defiance to a different skill for prophecy completion
drifting vale
Where cursed slash suffers is boss fights just cause they do big single hits
spiral tree
proven osprey
true
solid cairn
if the sword attack was better maybe I would rate cursed slash more highly
drifting vale
Cursed slash is good but it's niche
small condor
So when i'm looking at the artifact list, there's the golden chests/doors at the bottom of the menu, what are those and how do i get them?
drifting vale
Giving ambrosia to people
Which you can only do after enough nectar
And a small quest
Theyre called companions theyre basically summons
median lintel
honestly impressive of Zagrues that he hasn't just given up after 90+ tries
also, is phase 3 of Hades always dark?
Is there nothing i can do to change that?
median lintel
damn
languid dagger
dunno, it was super easy
was a half assed build
didn't get epic attack speed bonuses from Hermes and still
with meaty buffs from Athena
small stirrup
Low Heat kinda be like that
sacred spade
I found a big cheese for hades in a run i made yesterday : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53BrMWNG23k&t=45s
Charged shot is a bit broken...
languid dagger
yeah
small stirrup
I found a big cheese for hades in a run i made yesterday
Oh dear
This is...
Concerning
languid dagger
literally unplayable
I once noticed that one of the boons has a different font for bonus description
like are we beta testers or something? /s
half crater
yeah charged shot cheesing hades has been a thing for a while
try doing it with TD 😛
sacred spade
would have been strange that I was the first one to do it
half crater
i recall it being talked about months ago in early access
guess SGG decided they didn't mind idk
languid dagger
finally can do higher heats with Stygy blade https://youtu.be/bJ0unNE5lLs
sacred spade
guess SGG decided they didn't mind idk
@half crater Too bad, it could be fixed easily by just making the skull's waves impossible to block or something like that to force you to dash
half crater
that'd be a nerf to shield in general
jovial harness
oh that just looks like a little more cheesiness on top of the Shield's natural cheesiness
jovial harness
I found charge shot to be more useful than level 4 zeus shield enhanced special when I was trying to use zeus shield
Play as theseus
dusky nimbus
ew theseus
half crater
cheesing and getting a 45 min win
@proven osprey yeah this is the reason it doesn't bother me too much
proven osprey
yeah it's fine
sweet blade
Do chaos boons and Hades' call count as boons for olympian favor?
warm snow
I find that Tempest Strike works very well with Malphon (all 4 aspects). Corner enemies to get bonus damage while kick them away in open ground, avoid being hit.
Hades is not an Olympian.
Underworld.
jovial harness
oh I meant chaos shield earlier not zeus
warm snow
Chaos is deep deep down, not an Olympian either.
jovial harness
Hermes counts though right
mellow quest
tempest strike just scales horribly with poms and has a really low modifier
not gonna do much damage to bosses that way
warm snow
but if you corner enemies, you get bonus damage
kick them away, no more losing HP easily
for boss you can Maim
I use Maim for EM Elysium boss fight.
You can also use Call, Companion, special, cast... for bosses as long as you "hit and run".
languid dagger
guys, what's better in the long run god's Pride or God's Legacy?
still estuary
One message removed from a suspended account.
still estuary
One message removed from a suspended account.
small stirrup
God's Pride is definitely better in my opinion
small stirrup
You can easily get Duo and Legendries if you know how to build towards them, Legacy is just an added bonus to guarantee that you will see them
proven osprey
i used to play olympian too
but getting duo is better to me
Common boons are alright
still estuary
One message removed from a suspended account.
small stirrup
Not all Duos and Legendries are amazing, and there is no point in keeping it if you don't specifically build for that boon
warm snow
If you like Epic rarity, I have a workaround: use || Persephone keepsake||
proven osprey
yeah if you don't care do duos why not
small stirrup
That keepsake is great and all, but it upgrades a random boon, not a specific one. You're better off picking a Olympian keepsake to get the boons that you are looking for.
||Pom Blossom|| is only really useful when you get the build that you were looking for
midnight scaffold
for a cast build, would it be better to go aphro dio or aphro demeter
im using the shield if that matters
warm snow
for Tartarus, I use Olympian keep sake. Once I go to Asphodel, I switch to Persephone's
until The Temple of Styx, I choose Patroclus'
small stirrup
@midnight scaffold Do you mean the duos?
midnight scaffold
yeah
small stirrup
I'd say never pick the duo boon between aphro and Demeter
It definitely screws up every Crystal build
midnight scaffold
ty
warm snow
high damage
I have 5 stacks and my foes die fast
if you have 8, it's even more powerful
I currently have Drunken Flourish with Coronacht + Aspect of Chiron
You can replace Drunken Flourish with Frost Flourish, watch Asterius runs slowly.
devout ether
It definitely screws up every Crystal build
@small stirrup What? No way. It's great. Just requires actual positioning.
Might be less viable at very high heats, and not quite as good as the Artemis duo but it's still quite good
small stirrup
I can't argue with the logic that it actually works, but as you said it isn't very viable at high heats. It's probably cause I just suck with it, but compared to other alternatives it just never seems worth it
devout ether
How hard can it be to use? Just plunk your crystals on one side, and always move to have enemy sandwiched in between
This is hard to pull off against Lernie specifically, but otherwise it's gonna do chunks. The real power comes from the duration increase, after all
small stirrup
It sounds very simple when you put it like that, but I've always had a hard time getting used it. I very much prefer the idea of launching my crystals and just letting them do the job by themselves.
devout ether
That's perfectly valid
open heron
Double slow is legit
snow vapor
It really helps against Theseus and the Minotaur
I mean Minotaur is already easy but slowing him just allows for more time to screw around
mellow quest
asterius is not so easy at forced overtime 2, extreme measures 3. that charge speed and tracking is insane
fathom cargo
any recommendations for a Guan Yu build?
small stirrup
Athena attack is hilarious
fathom cargo
I haven't tried the damned thing yet because I'm intimidated by the massive HP hit........
small stirrup
It is suggested to upgrade Guan Yu to level 5 😅
But it is a very strong aspect for spear
turbid needle
Cerb keepsake can help early
devout ether
any recommendations for a Guan Yu build?
@fathom cargo Get lucky and pick charged skewer
small stirrup
Ahhh yes
turbid needle
Or triple dash strike
small stirrup
Luck
turbid needle
I remember purging a run with triple dash strike chaos boon attack and aphro on attack, ended with charm
hexed briar
elfin pawn
Hmm what would work well with Guan-Yu + Heart Rend?
Artemis Flourish and Aphrodite's Strike
Also Charged Skewer
But I don't know what else
fathom cargo
hammers and Athena sound like they'll be my best friends where possible, so I appreciate it, thank you!
proven osprey
Hmm what would work well with Guan-Yu + Heart Rend?
@elfin pawn You need charged skewer indeed, best hammer. You could for Athena but the basic Aphro/Arte works well with t2 boons (mark is awesome btw) from these 2 godesses
I would say you rely more on the hammer than anything infortunately
Prior to GY change, you would go for serrated edge (which is still good) but building around it would not be as efficient as it was now (i.e artemis dash, support fire which was fun and real good)
You could also go for an alternate build with Athena attack and aim for deadly reversal, I tried it at 32 heat and it's pretty good an kinda safer
elfin pawn
Yeah I picked up Mark, Flourish and Heartbreak
with Skewer
I deal 800 damage on charge
Flourish is lvl 6 
proven osprey
You could deal more than that
devout ether
Charged Skewer GY is the truth
proven osprey
be sure to weaken enemies
proven osprey
Oh yeah clean kill too
elfin pawn
kekw
ornate prawn
so what hidden aspects are good with only 1-2 invests of titan blood
dusky nimbus
beowolf
devout ether
Well, minimum investment is 3 blood for starters 😛
Arthur I'd say
Rama is great at lvl 1 too
Gil isthe one that benefits the most from higher levels
opal lodge
hera also gets basically all its power at level 1
devout ether
Hera is also not a hidden aspect, but yes
opal lodge
ah good shout
mellow quest
arthur and rama are very strong without much blood in them
gilgamesh too kinda, the maim damage isn't the important part of the debuff
but gilgamesh is just weird in general
devout ether
Gilgamesh is secretly a dash focused aspect.
opal lodge
gilgamesh sweet nectar tidal dash go splash
elfin pawn
What is a good Nemesis Hammer?
untold iris
double edge
the other hammers range from okay to bad
the only good one is double edge
worldly stump
Oh yeah double edge is good
azure coral
anyone have any tips on getting the arthur aspect to unlock?
been suiciding runs for a half hour and nothing
worldly stump
Shut up artemis just buff my dash attack
untold iris
do you have guan yu unlocked
and do you have at least 5 titan blood invested in sword?
azure coral
i havent spent the blood on guan yu but its available and ive spent more than 5 into the blade alone
worldly stump
thats the gun right?
untold iris
just gotta talk to nyx more then
azure coral
nyx doesnt even say anything anymore
worldly stump
Talk to the warrior guy
azure coral
no one is talking anymore
ive run through all the dialogues i have
im just suiciding
magic cedar
Hey, what keepsake should I use in elysium?
azure coral
imo use charons
mellow quest
there's no strictly correct answer to that
devout ether
Hey, what keepsake should I use in elysium?
@magic cedar What's giving you trouble?
magic cedar
I usualy use spiked coller but it seems like somthing else could be better
mellow quest
spiked collar is only 50 health so yeah
devout ether
Spiked collar is great at 0 heat when you're still learning the game
magic cedar
I'll sometimes lose a dd to the boss
azure coral
do you have the green mirror yet?
magic cedar
do you think pom flower could be good?
devout ether
Acorn can be great if you need a little help with bosses
unkempt pagoda
have you tried acorn
mellow quest
acorn helps with learning a boss and is still good even at really high heat for Elysium/styx
magic cedar
I usualy get hit to much for acorn to be good
mellow quest
pom blossom doesn't go off enough in tartarus/asphodel/Elysium
and in styx it means hitting a bunch of random boons rather than the ones you want it to. and also no defensive keepsake.
solid cairn
yeah pom blossom is overrated
magic cedar
good point
untold iris
acorn is probably the best keepsake in the game
solid cairn
I usualy get hit to much for acorn to be good
@magic cedar wouldn't this make it good
devout ether
Pom is okay if you go for a meme crystal beam or hangover single boon run
untold iris
blocking 5 hits in elysium or styx is usually a loooot of hp saved
solid cairn
it hits random keepsakes in asphodel even
also artemis builds dont get much from poms
but cast builds do
hourglass is really fun
just stack damage from well items
mellow quest
pom blossom also tanks in value with tight deadline 2/3
magic cedar
acorn is probably the best option here
untold iris
imo the best keepsakes are:
acorn, owl, rose, arrowhead, thunder signet
devout ether
You could also try to go whole hog with plume and get damage mitigation that way
solid cairn
you can't really rank the god keepsakes
solid cairn
I mean zeus sgouldn't be there in that case
untold iris
zeus is there because he's by far the best god to force in tartarus for rail
devout ether
Gods? no. Boons though
solid cairn
outside of rail and a decent call it isn't great
untold iris
he's much less widely applicable than the other three gods
but his strength on rail is enough for me to take the keepsake every time when I'm doing a high heat rail run
solid cairn
some builds really want to start with dio for example
mellow quest
billowing strength, clouded judgement, lightning reflexes
devout ether
If Eris rail didnt exist no one would be picking zeus for best anything
mellow quest
just about every build would enjoy those 3 boons
solid cairn
it's good on other rails
untold iris
zeus is best on all the rails besides hestia
untold iris
most other weapons have aphro or artemis as their best god
and athena is just a god that performs very well in any build
untold iris
and is especially important on high heat because she gives a lot of safety and extra death defiances
mellow quest
drunken flourish is better than deadly on chiron if your goal is dps
solid cairn
splitting bolt is one of the best legendaries in the game
also zeus cast is actually pretty good
mellow quest
deadly still nukes enemies in room fights very fast but it won't keep up with the scaling drunken flourish offers
untold iris
nah the best dps chiron build is artemis special
mellow quest
nope. not the case anymore, back to 10 damage arrows
solid cairn
I've tried both on 32 heat and artemis performed way better
untold iris
iirc ledgerdamayn said that drunken is better at clearing rooms of enemies because you can apply poison to multiple enemies, but it has worse damage vs bosses
solid cairn
when I used it it was pretty underwheling but that was pre nerf
untold iris
from personal experience the build that I've been happiest with is going for artemis special, aphrodite attack, and looking for heart rend
solid cairn
demeter special is actually very good if you can get the arctic blast
mellow quest
but it mostly comes down to the difference of how slow the special execution is vs how you can take twin shot perfect shot with drunken flourish
solid cairn
why twin shot and perfect shot lol
mellow quest
because it does silly damage even without a boon
untold iris
anything that buffs your attack is a backup hammer on chiron
lilac crystal
Hello everyone I'm kinda new here!
mellow quest
and you don't need a special hammer to apply 8 hangover stacks
one and done and onto greener pastures with your meaty attack
solid cairn
anything that buffs your attack is a backup hammer on chiron
this
untold iris
I really like aphrodite special on chiron as well
solid cairn
demeter special works really well
untold iris
aphro special hasn't had the highest highs of heart rend artemis special, but I find it to be very consistent
lilac crystal
guys excuse me what build do you recommend for the gloves? is my favorite weapon right now but I want to be more effective, so basically Hades killed me is what I'm saying
untold iris
spam dash attack
solid cairn
they're mostly the same
devout ether
guys excuse me what build do you recommend for the gloves? is my favorite weapon right now but I want to be more effective, so basically Hades killed me is what I'm saying
@lilac crystal Get Athena on attack
mellow quest
they're mostly the same with regards to % attack boons
but then there's merciful end fists
untold iris
if you have a pretty completed mirror, I would recommend trying to build towards merciful end
solid cairn
ME fists seem a bit advanced lol
mellow quest
but that is an extremely picky build so
untold iris
but without the last three rows of the mirror mostly filled out I find ME to be wildly inconsistent
solid cairn
in terms of how much you need to know
untold iris
its so unreliable to put together all the boons needed for ME to work, and the build really doesn't shine without all four specific boons
lilac crystal
thank you!
untold iris
I usually dont pick them all up until like elysium, and this is with a full mirror
mellow quest
RI1 is one of the hardest t1 pacts
untold iris
if you're newer I would probably just recommend like, zeus attack or something
I've been taking RI2 in some of my runs
lilac crystal
thanks @devout ether
untold iris
its annoying but I'm sort of used to it
mellow quest
i wouldn't recommend lightning strike on fists. it seems good right up until you need to do actual damage numbers
solid cairn
I don't enjoy AP and RI much
untold iris
I'm never going to touch RI3 ever though lol
mellow quest
even eris rail needs to pivot its focus a little into the special or cast
solid cairn
i'm talking about eris
mellow quest
i mean zues flat damage on the attack loses steam in Elysium and even more in styx
it's not enough damage without some obscene boosts
solid cairn
poseidon dash lol
mellow quest
i.e. 75% boosted splitting bolt
untold iris
I feel like I've never really been that disappointed with eris damage
solid cairn
poseidon dash is really good, not just for speedruns
untold iris
most builds end up pivoting to special somewhat not because it's necessary but because the special hammers are really good and the attack hammers mostly suck
at least that's my opinion
solid cairn
it's a great source of supplemental damage
you may want it on like a zeus cast build
which opens up sea storm
mellow quest
bow has a lot of really good non-sniper shot attack hammers
untold iris
you could also try and find smouldering air and have 75% damage boosted calls as part of your dps
solid cairn
sniper shot is terrible lol
solid cairn
zeus call + eris has a higher ceiling
mellow quest
dio call is very good without eris
untold iris
since rail is so good at building god gauge
cunning urchin
Lightning Strike DPS is really good on Malphon.
solid cairn
zeus call dps with splitting bolt and/or double strike is ridiculous
untold iris
zeus is the synergy god
proven osprey
Is it common to have 30s left at the end of tartarus at TD3 ?
solid cairn
sometimes
untold iris
you go hard into zeus boons and he can deal ridiculous damage
cunning urchin
Depends on aspect and pacts, I guess.
mellow quest
@cunning urchin it felt like it slowed down a TON in that run. to the point i picked up vengeful mood to keep DPS up
proven osprey
mellow quest
i already had holy shield so it was a defensive decision as well.
solid cairn
but it's also really cool
cunning urchin
I dunno. You shouldn't be having problems beating TD3 JS3 CP2 DC2 with Lightning Strike on Malphon. That's good enough.
solid cairn
ew js3
cunning urchin
I like running those pacts together.
solid cairn
so slow
mellow quest
js doesn't slow down malphon much. esecially if you get breaching cross
solid cairn
breaching cross is ridic
untold iris
breaching cross is way better than I initially assumed it was when I was first learning fists
it might be the best fist hammer to me now
solid cairn
it works so well because fists have low single hit damage
and 900% is way more than any other armor damage hammer
mellow quest
i just personally don't like how it pairs with benefits package
solid cairn
not to mention it works on dash upper
cunning urchin
Tartarus TD3 can just end you if you don't get what you need, though.
untold iris
i mostly play with TD2 since I dont feel comfortable racing against TD3
mellow quest
tartarus can end you in lots of unpleasant ways at high heat
untold iris
i turned on TD3 to feel how it would be, had two runs ended in styx because of sack rng, and decided to go back to TD2 lol
cunning urchin
Breaching Cross is easily #1, yeah. There's no real competition there.
solid cairn
td3 at 32 heat isn't bad if you take free rooms
untold iris
i should probably take more free rooms
cunning urchin
Which I think is fine because it doesn't affect bosses as much as other hammers.
untold iris
its just feels bad to take a shop when you have like 200 gold
solid cairn
that's how speedruns are too
cunning urchin
I take free rooms just to not waste my own time anyway lol.
mellow quest
i would drop to td2 if i were to try and push more 40 runs. eris is the only one i felt confident time would almost never be an issue for me on
cunning urchin
Unless I think it's really worth it.
solid cairn
I have 2 weapons I need to get to 32
solid cairn
shield shouldn't be an issue
cunning urchin
I need to do 40 Heat Stygius sometime.
mellow quest
Sometimes I make the mistake of thinking a tartarus trial is worth it 
cunning urchin
Probably Excalibur for me, yeah.
mellow quest
tailesque did 46
untold iris
is it me or are tartarus trials unusually long?
they always spawn slightly more enemies than I'm expecting them to
mellow quest
unless the tartarus trial is all louts they are super long
cunning urchin
They've adjusted them a little bit, yes.
proven osprey
Td3 is too much with JS3 atm
midnight scaffold
especially with the "more enemies" pact, they re very long
cunning urchin
Should be better when you get the new patch on Switch.
solid cairn
beowulf is good
I never knew one of those cafeteria trays would be so good in combat
untold iris
the things im most excited about getting patched into switch:
huge catch is easier to get
chaos fish appear more often
cunning urchin
There were a few issues with Tartarus trials that we helped them look at in the test branch.
solid cairn
it was kind of insane before
it was like a guan yu special build but no health penalty and you could block
cunning urchin
Well, mainly just a neverending army of thugs lol.
@solid cairn Beowulf Charged Flight was perfectly fine just the way it was. 🔫
untold iris
i really like exploding launcher on spear
mellow quest
i just really don't like how it was a blanket nerf and now it's good on beo and pretty trashy on the others
solid cairn
I mean beo was the only one that would use it anyway
unkempt pagoda
regular shield special is trash anyways lol
solid cairn
I think zag shield is the only other one that can get it
mellow quest
but i am not big on playing shield in general.
solid cairn
beo is fun
unkempt pagoda
literally all 3 notable shield aspects had to change the special in someway to make it good
untold iris
i barely play shield tbh
mellow quest
i either go full braindead with zag aspect pulverizing blow or beo.
cunning urchin
Nah it was stupid. It was good that they nerfed it lol.
solid cairn
the charged flught?
cunning urchin
Yes.
solid cairn
I thought you just said it was fine though
proven osprey
Dusa emote was involved, pay attention to the signs
mellow quest
@cunning urchin have you tried out crush shot now that its pom scaling is silly?
devout ether
Beo special used to do more damage? Dang
solid cairn
no charged flight gave more damage
cunning urchin
Silly?
untold iris
no, charged flight used to do more damage
mellow quest
shatter shot was too good for this (under)world
cunning urchin
Isn't just back to how it used to be?
devout ether
Ah
small stirrup
charged flight beowulf was hilariously stupid
mellow quest
i guess i wouldn't know. there's a big gap between when i first played vs now.
cunning urchin
I legit did 52 with Beowulf only to prove my point that it was stupid broken in Blood Price lol.
untold iris
turns out that balancing charged flight for the regular shield special ends up being absurd when the hidden aspect's special damage is three times higher
solid cairn
didn't they nerf breaching cross from 1000 to 900
they should have made charged flight 380% damage instead
cunning urchin
Yes, that was the Breaching Cross nerf.
solid cairn
cunning urchin
cunning urchin
They shoulda given Charged Flight an extra +15% like they did Eris.
cunning urchin
I see.
So just make it like Gilgamesh.
Whenever you load a cast into your shield, you just apply Boiling Blood to yourself.
mellow quest
next patch should reduce max chaos shields to 4 and up eris % another 15% to make it a nice even 100%
solid cairn
gilgamesh is the gold standard of design
cunning urchin
Gilgamesh is a lot more fun now since the patch at least.
mellow quest
it no longer feels extremely terrible to dash strike -> attack, yeah
now it just feels bad because the dash strike is only 20 base damage
untold iris
gilgamesh should lean harder into dash synergies imo
mellow quest
big improvement
cunning urchin
untold iris
it would be cool if chaining dash strikes gave you higher damage on each dash strike, or more main % or something
to take advantage of the +2 dashes it gives
mellow quest
or you could just use ruthless reflex
cunning urchin
You can do Dash-Strike > Dash-Upper with just one dash now like the other Malphon aspects. That's pretty big.
untold iris
no i mean like, you have four dashes, first dash strike does 20, the second one you chain does 25, then 30, then 40
cunning urchin
I don't take Ruthless on Gilgamesh.
untold iris
or something else that benefits you for dash attacking multiple times without waiting for your dash to cooldown
maybe chaining dash attacks amps up maim damage or something
cunning urchin
You're better off Attacking than Dash-Attacking with Gilgamesh. Better DPS.
mellow quest
that was my point
cunning urchin
Unless you have ME obviously.
mellow quest
it's nice that they made the input buffering cleaner though
mossy light
ahh, finally got to use the killing freeze boon properly. works great on upgraded demeter casts
proven osprey
Hm
I'm dying a lot with FO
so there's not point no to run FO2
that's my conclusion
devout ether
Sounds legit
sweet blade
Can the "upgraded boon rarity" well option upgrade a mythical boon into a legendary one?
sweet blade
ah yeah, herioc, not mythical
cunning urchin
Nope. It gives you higher chance for legendary/duo, then if that roll fails, a higher chance for epic, and if that roll also fails, you get 100% at least a rare boon.
azure coral
so im just gonna throw this out there since i didnt much help before but does anyone know whats stopping nyx from giving me arthur? ive got guan yu available and ive spent over 5 blood on sword upgrades and after runs nyx doesnt talk about anything anymore
cunning urchin
Just gotta keep doing runs, I guess.
If it persists, F10 to let them know it's taking a long time to get the conversation.
azure coral
ive been suiciding for a while now
finite socket
Well eventually
She will show up
The dialogue pool may be just that big
So it will take a while
mossy light
the dialogue pool is big, took me 60 or so runs for the 4th shield and rail
60 or so total runs*
devout ether
I'm at 70 runs and still dont have Lucifer
mossy light
just keep running, unless you didnt invest enough blood
finite socket
Hey lasers are cool
mossy light
no hazard bomb, or rockets, or i think clusterbomb, but its kewl
proven osprey
Hey lasers are cool
@finite socket That's true
quick wedge
man why doesn't the rail's fire button default to be the reload button when you're empty
jovial harness
first attempt at doing a hoarding slash build, with arthur sword https://i.imgur.com/AN1yhz5.jpg
didnt actually sell any boons though, forgot about that
also should have rerolled more doors for more money
quick wedge
when i get it i like to try to build for easy duos that i can sell
cloud jungle
Chthonic coin purse into Sisyphus hoarding slash 😄
jovial harness
is there any way to bring the victory screen back up if you accidentally dismiss it
cloud jungle
don't think so
jovial harness
i used the pom flower to try to make up for having fewer boons
3573 gold at the end
cloud jungle
you didn't buy the diamond? 😉
cloud jungle
2 diamonds are a blood
I need 15 more blood before I've maxed all weapons
so I would've bought it 😄
jovial harness
probably should have bought the diamond, i couldve won with 50 less damage probably
but it was the first time ive done that so i wanted to go all out
cloud jungle
ahhh, only heat 3
jovial harness
not entirely sure what you mean by that
cloud jungle
you're just trying to win
jovial harness
as in, going out of your way to buy resources at the end?
cloud jungle
yeah
jovial harness
oh i also got the legendary fishing boon and so i have a fishing point at hades
jovial harness
just have to not screw up yeah
cloud jungle
I'm good at fishing when I focus
jovial harness
perfect bass yay
cloud jungle
I was livestreaming it though
jovial harness
this victory messages are getting less and less creative lol
jovial harness
no just "imagine zagreus meets one of his typical deaths" or something like that
jovial harness
why doesnt he just go back home after beating hades instead of subjecting himself to horrible death
cloud jungle
he goes to the || cottage ||
but since || his mother isn't there, he dies quicker ||
anyway, gonna do Nemesis Heat 16, wish me luck 😉
I'm on a 27 win streak right now, this could be the end of it
proven osprey
You got this
cloud jungle
probably 😄
vagrant olive
I can't heccin beat thesus. when he's down to 20% health I'm pretty much exhuasted and my fingers just can't move. q-q
median lintel
god Eris aspect with the Zeus attack boon is so fun
jovial harness
oh wow i dumped 9 blood into excalibur without paying too much attention to what upgrading it does