I got pretty lucky getting every essential piece so early
#h1-builds-and-combat
warm flame
errant narwhal
@warm flame please post that in #self-promotion!
abstract badger
Not a fan of the shield
gray shore
does anyone know if nourished soul for demeter works on LC4?
proven parcel
Get every God to like 6 hearts, zoo
after that I think you need most to comment on zeus, but not sure
spiral tree
I have every god maxed I think lol
proven osprey
does anyone know if nourished soul for demeter works on LC4?
@gray shore it does not
gray shore
thank you
left peak
Hi, what do you guys recommend here. I have the aspect of nemesis with aprohdite and hades boons.
https://i.imgur.com/rWZKftG.png
gray shore
Curse of longing looks good
That's a lot of damage
Sweet surrender would be such an auto take tho if duo weren't there
spiral tree
depends on your build
but cruel thrust definitely seems the best
I dont think dash nova is good at all
the way it lunges you forward can make attacking awkward and more difficult than it needs to be
left peak
@spiral tree I have doom from attacks and the ones that stack. I have heartbreak flourish, dash strike, curse of longing
aspect of nemesis
spiral tree
yeah def thrust
left peak
ok
thanks
@spiral tree https://i.imgur.com/7zcuCt3.png
I have curse of agony, curse of vengeance, dire mistfortune
spiral tree
definitely impending doom
left peak
curse of longing too
proven osprey
impending is strong
left peak
Nice
unkempt pagoda
impending is the quintessential doom upgrade
devout ether
If you took thrust strike, take the attack speed
left peak
I did indeed take that
mellow quest
i've made it to em4 hades on 32 heat arthur with 3 DD and 501 health. i bet i'll still find a way to throw
devout ether
That's a LOT of health
mellow quest
very early life affirmation on arthur
devout ether
It's certainly one of the most fun
mellow quest
im still terrible at forced overtime 2
proven osprey
they're whatever
left peak
?
devout ether
Battle Rage can be great in normal encounters
@left peak you're new enough that you shouldnt be worrying about every single choice
Just pick whatever and learn as you play
left peak
Okay
rare kayak
devout ether
Yep, Sure Footing is pretty much mandatory if you turn on HS
half crater
me, yesterday: HS can’t be that bad, i’m probably unreasonably afraid of it
me, now: i’m reasonably afraid, this fear is reasonable
spiral tree
what is everyone's thoughts?
half crater
i usually go deadly strike, heartbreak flourish -> heart rend
i doubt its the most consistent build tho lol
i just like to crit big numbers
void fjord
the most consistent i think is heartbreak strike with artemis or demeter special
demeter gives ez privileged status
with the aphro attack
artemis special for big number possibilities on special
spiral tree
for early heats I was using athena attack
aura slow+big wide hitbox on arthur attack=play baseball
aph attack+aura is insane damage reduction and the highest attack % buff in the game is nice too
but then let's say you go for aph attack
what is the best duo for it
smoldering air?
spiral tree
and second wind
but that isnt as consistent as I want lol
any way to ensure zeus call and SA?
well zeus call I can get easily enough
maybe it is consistent lol
unkempt pagoda
i mean, it's about as consistent as fishing for any other duo lol
spiral tree
lol
for some reason tho when i go art attack I get lightning rod every time
I like to think getting the duo you want is very consistent
but not 100%
which is annoying lol
unkempt pagoda
i mean, it's free damage
unless you're trying to do a cast build on arthur for some reason
half crater
are you suggesting not just doing a cast build on every weapon?
dude, you have “cast build” in your name
cunning urchin
If you take Stygian Soul, you cannot be offered Lightning Rod.
unkempt pagoda
lightning rod is your quasi-cast build if you're doing a non-cast run 😛
half crater
lol fair
calm saddle
@cunning urchin u love fists right
cunning urchin
Malphon? Yeah, it's fun.
calm saddle
which aspect is the best for ME in ur opinion
cunning urchin
Gilgamesh obviously.
calm saddle
ok i thoguht so
cunning urchin
More dashes, more ME.
proven parcel
Gilgamesh is great
cunning urchin
But that's just for when you actually have ME.
Before that, Demeter Aspect would definitely be better.
calm saddle
i dont like opening with special so i guess its better to put ares on attack
devout ether
ME gil is bad bc it forces you to play gil
@unkempt pagoda Why would you say something so controversial yet so brave
calm saddle
devout ether
Hey, gil is not THAT bad. It could be spear
calm saddle
i like attacking fast
and not taking extra dmg for no reason
but yeah they are cool sometimes
ares attack + divine flourish is the only build i honestly like with gil
maybe i just havent found another one
proven osprey
what do you mean it could be spear 
devout ether
I mean spear is so bad, like goddamn
proven osprey
devout ether
Search your feelings, you know it to be true
cunning urchin
Heartbreak Strike is really good on Gilgamesh.
devout ether
I am bad
@proven osprey https://media.tenor.com/images/d85d9f198d6b18d52267ef60314e7220/tenor.gif
devout ether
Hang in there, Skeleton
mossy light
That feeling when you get a duo boon in tartarus but its the best choice to remove with underworld customs 
proven parcel
mossy light
im using arthur, and the choice was cold embrace, heartbreak strike, or the crystal cast
unkempt pagoda
the best choice here was selling both CE and crystal beam, and switching to athena for dash 
mossy light
im working on grinding trinkets. ive got all of the boring ones mostly maxed out
so ive got skellys tooth... which ill probably never use
still vigil
so imma say it
demeter is pretty solid on gilgamesh
especially with rending claws on
also zeus shield reigns supreme as the best weapon
north knot
How does demeter work with gilgamesh at all?
Im actually intrigued
And no, Chaos Shield reigns supreme
still vigil
i agree
so to answer yer question, demeter/gilga is def not the best if we're talkin damage but fer me it stacks that slow while strafing
also arctic blast
solid cairn
also zeus shield reigns supreme as the best weapon
@still vigil this take is hotter than asphodel
still vigil
it's the truth
solid cairn
what about eris rail lol
still vigil
we said weapons not entities of mass destruction
still vigil
ive never timed my fights with him specifically
solid cairn
on my 8:04 speedrun it was like 36 seconds
mossy light
i swear, im done with anvils
solid cairn
good choice
winter carbon
I dont dare to mess with the power of anvils
still vigil
it's the spice of life
solid cairn
oh boy
mossy light
gotta finish that codex by buying anvils
solid cairn
if cursed slash didn't exist I would take it on nemesis if I did not have double edge already
mossy light
and i didnt need breaching slash that much against hades... though trading it for piercing wave and double nova is pointless
solid cairn
8:04 used to be like a top 15 time, now I'm barely in top 30
midnight scaffold
the anvil saved my run a couple times
still vigil
is this a fever dream or is there a hammer that allows you to be paul bunyan
solid cairn
the record is 6:17 which is insane to me
still vigil
2 sack, skipped trials, went to shop, and rng smiled upon their boons
but ya i liked my demeter dash/attack on gilga runs
especially when i have FO2 on
mossy light
frigging piercing wave and double nova on arthur... whats the point
mossy light
LoZ roleplay?
mossy light
"i was a japanese salaryman but i suddenly died and am now prince of the underworld and have to kill my father?"
still vigil
nande??
frail schooner
wow the chill blast does so much dmg with crystal beam finflicting chill
sacred geyser
can you get ice wine with beowulf?
doesnt seem like it, since the requirement says Trippy Shot but you get Trippy Flare with it
devout ether
I think you still can
strange adder
I'm really struggling to get to the surface with the aspect of guan yu. I thought it'd be a good trick to use athena's call to set up health drains but it fades before the spin attack charges lol
so you have to be reactive and wait for an opening but it takes longer than your opportunity space to charge up unless you have that single hammer boon
does anyone have any advice?
devout ether
The trick to GY, as with all spears, is to never ever EVER spin
Treat GY as a "special" focused spear, try to get charged skewer
strange adder
bleh, yeah
devout ether
Put aphro or dem on special and go to town
strange adder
I lost 2 deaths experimenting and havent hit Lernie yet lol
devout ether
Pretty much never press attack, dash attack if necessary
midnight scaffold
isnt the spin the only life stealing attack on gy tho?
devout ether
Spear is bad but at least GY acts like a bad bow, which is okay
strange adder
I've got +170% special damage so I'm gonna try and salvage this run but it's tough
devout ether
isnt the spin the only life stealing attack on gy tho?
@midnight scaffold Yes, and you never want to use it
midnight scaffold
i find that funny
devout ether
You'll take more damage trying to go for spins than just hanging back and mashing Y
No need to gain back health if you're not taking damage!
(this is the reason why GY sucks)
strange adder
I kinda feel like gy aspect is a personal challenge only weapon
devout ether
I think it's fun! Just, ya know, total garbage. Probably the most interesting of the spears, too
I dont like spear in general
rain egret
Spin on gy is not supposed to be used in the middle of the fight. It’s useful when monsters are spawning
devout ether
But seriously, charged skewer turns it into a handcannon
rain egret
Right before they appear, cast the spin
still estuary
One message removed from a suspended account.
strange adder
lol
frail schooner
Spin is also good in the Styx rooms with like 500 tiny rats
rain egret
How would you get damaged without enemies nearby?
frail schooner
Just one shot them all and take the free hp
strange adder
heat giving them move speed really weakens the spin, getting like 2 hp cause they move straight ar you
wary jackal
the little rats die too fast to heal off of easily
rain egret
But I agree that max hp Debuff should be smaller
devout ether
Charging spin with tiny rats is a great way to lose a ton of health lmao
SGG shoulda buffed attack speed instead of damage imo
Arthur gets away with being slow by having a huuuuge AOE attack
rain egret
heat giving them move speed really weakens the spin, getting like 2 hp cause they move straight ar you
@strange adder it’s all about timing. The spin takes long enough to fade. Charge it when enemies are about to spawn then dash away
devout ether
And also deals twice the damage
GY is less damage, less area, and you have half the health
Just.... for no reason
All around worse
strange adder
I think the risk in that is not worth the return
devout ether
Which is pretty much the Spear motto: Sword, but much worse.
rain egret
I think the risk in that is not worth the return
@strange adder yeah, I’m talking that in a desperate cenário haha
strange adder
and the times when the field is clear during respawn is so infrequent that devoting brainpower to it is an overall loss
for sure
there are definitely cases where it's nice
I just leveled up athena's aid a couple times and it basically covers it now but it's still not really worth it
hopefully I see patroclus this run and get my defiances back
cunning urchin
Guan Yu has better DPS than Excalibur.
idle violet
Just got the last aspect on fists, immediately tried it with ruthless reflex (the alternate dodge mirror) and now I'm conflicted whether I like talos or this more
That basically free dodge chance, and the chunky damage! Oh man
idle violet
But maybe applying the +dmg to the final boss was bad for my health? Idk
maiden holly
is hades spear not good or something?
devout ether
is hades spear not good or something?
@maiden holly It really isnt
ebon isle
Does anyone know a good arthur aspect build?
maiden holly
people say GY is better but I cant tell if they're memeing or not haha
cunning urchin
Hades Aspect is amazing.
devout ether
Spin is, almost by design, a bad move. Spin focused spear is, then, a really bad spear
cunning urchin
Or Special.
maiden holly
x1.5 damage multiplier for 10 seconds is really nice
cunning urchin
Really nice is an understatement lol.
devout ether
But then you just have a worse Achilles
cunning urchin
?
cunning urchin
I'll just say that 41 with Hades Aspect was one of the easiest 40+ I've done.
devout ether
I think that speaks more to your own skill than the weapon's
cunning urchin
I think you're very wrong about that, but sure.
mossy light
does a 40+ heat run; calls it easy; acts modest
strange adder
well I did get patroclus and promptly lost all 3 deaths lol
lessons learned, I'll keep trying
marsh dome
time sensitive question:
Will Delta Chamber disable Aspect of Hestia?
marsh dome
Can you? I seem to recall it just gets rid of the reload entirely
cunning urchin
Yeah, you can.
marsh dome
yeah, took it
seems odd, but alright. trying to figure out a good way to incorporate hestia into my general use of delta chamber dashing shots
seems like I'll have to take the hit and still reload, either way. But removing auto-reloads is enough of a bonus, plus I think each one shot deals more damage with delta?
strange adder
yesterday I had delta chamber and Sea Storm (z/pos duo) with hestia and it was incredibly fun
cunning urchin
I don't really play Rail too much.
Wiki doesn't mention any change to base damage, for what it's worth.
It's not entirely up to date on everything.
strange adder
I like hestia aspect a lot, especially since I remapped the face buttons to shoulder buttons and reload is circle
cut down on rsi a lot
cunning urchin
I have Reload on LB when I play Rail.
devout ether
Reload being on R3 is so dumb I'm kind of embarassed for SGG that they still have it as the default
strange adder
I'm very happy they fully supported complete remapping for controllers
the codex on R3 feels much better for me
still vigil
What scenarios would you typically reroll in tartarus ?
cunning urchin
Reroll?
still vigil
Boons
cunning urchin
Persuasion or Authority?
still vigil
Persuasion
cunning urchin
Just any time I don't get what I want.
still vigil
Srry fer bad wording
still vigil
Ooo i got epic killing freeze early
If i want to spread killing freeze as fast as possible on fists, what could i take
cunning urchin
I guess just Frost Strike + Mistral Dash.
Or maybe Demeter's Aid?
All three would be ideal for just chilling everything as fast as possible.
devout ether
Honestly, getting more dashes would do the trick
cunning urchin
But that's not really something you have as much control about.
Getting core boons you want is a lot easier.
quartz frost
why doesnt chthonic keepsake not give me gold 😦
thorny dirge
if you mean the coinpurse then you probably have a no gold curse on from chaos
quartz frost
oh wait im dumb nvm
cunning urchin
We've all been there lol.
azure walrus
It happens xD
pearl rain
Oh my Lord
I have picked up the Shield for the first time and reached the final boss all in one run.
devout ether
Shield is pretty good
pearl rain
Is there a tier of weapons?
cunning urchin
Yeah, it goes my favorite weapon > your favorite weapon. 
abstract badger
Hmmm. Hit bit of a roadblock here. Or i shouldn't have tried 15 runs in a single sitting
still vigil
Gilglamesh>Zeus>rama>chaos>everything else
Jk
I dun think the weapons themselves have a tierlist
But there does seem to be a consensus that spear without hammers can be challenging
abstract badger
For me the spear is pretty nice. Gun is weird. Shield even though its the most noob friendly one i don't like it
Ora ora punch gaunts pretty fun
Sword is eh
If i didn't carelessly spent my titan blood for the aspect of zagreus sword maybe I'll be singing a different tune
still vigil
I think someone yesterday best said that what one person thinks is bad maybe the thing that clicks fer ya
serene zealot
Lucifer is kinda crazy in the new update. I like Eris aspect
I... I can't make sense of Guan Yu tho
abstract badger
And i don't seem to be getting past minotaur and theseus for atleast 10 hours now
still vigil
I personally dun like the shield but objectively its super friendly and can nullify a lot of attacks
serene zealot
It can be good to clear room but when I meet the final boss at EM4... Oh dear
abstract badger
Oh and i didn't get to know thanatos or demeter yet
Or getting any of the said crazier boons
still vigil
So @pearl rain just ask around and feel what's yer fave playstyle
azure walrus
Lucifer is weird. I feel like I'm panicking and doing nothing but I'm also getting results.
It's the Benny Hill of gun aspects for me
proven osprey
I... I can't make sense of Guan Yu tho
@serene zealot best aspect
You cannot feel its greatness yet I suppose
serene zealot
What is its greatness?
still vigil
GY is generally yuck until good boons
azure walrus
Guan Yu is cool, and really high damage, but I feel like the end lag in its SPEEN is way too risky to use in most situations
proven sierra
if you can only pick ONE Ares cast upgrade, do you pick increased radius or 0.3 seconds longer and pulls folks in?
proven osprey
Yuck until first Boon actually
azure walrus
Succ is better
proven osprey
Agreed
azure walrus
More reliably repeat damage on ĉast
serene zealot
High damage but wayyy too slow and the penalty is 50% health
still vigil
Succ
azure walrus
The slow would be fine if the lifesteal wasn't so incredibly dangerous to pull off
Like, seriously you're rooted for like a full second
still vigil
Better fer groupings
serene zealot
Yeah
proven osprey
Guan Yu as an amazing special. You have to get used to the spin but it's awesome with Athena. You can also get special all the way and stay safe
cunning urchin
I don't even really bother with lifesteal on Guan Yu.
proven sierra
lifesteal on guan yu is for healing only imo
and generally only on groups/clusters
proven osprey
(not my experience)
cunning urchin
FO2 is still fine with Guan Yu, it's just a lot harder for obvious reasons.
proven osprey
Yeah 
pearl rain
I'm currently playing with the spear and good Hades does that do damage
serene zealot
Why do I have to yet used to the spin when I can one button it in Zeus 
And it spin much, much longer
still vigil
More info that zeus is secretly the supreme choice
proven osprey
Because you can fill room with spin and thus spreading the love of lady Aphrodite
serene zealot
Apho on special is always something else. She deals insane damage
proven osprey
Good Luck answering that, unfaithful one
still vigil
Why fight with love when you can smite yer enemies down with the power of a thicc bolt
I wanna now try dio on zeus special
proven osprey
I don't know man, maybe because Aphrodite is superior
still vigil
Aphro is all around great no cap
proven osprey
Love is eternal
still vigil
More health more dmg red more damage period
She's super good
Like why
Love is a top tier pick
proven sierra
if you have Eurydice's +rarity for the next 3 boons active
and you buy a Yarn of Ariadne
do the next 4 boons get rarity boosted?
OR does the next boon get boosted twice, and then the next two boons get boosted once?
OR do they not stack and it's worthless?
cunning urchin
The game rolls for legendary/duo first, then epic, then rare, and then if that roll fails, you get a common.
Refreshing Nectar and Yarn of Ariadne increase your chance for legendary/duo, epic, and then if those two rolls fail, you have a 100% chance to get a rare boon.
So they stack for legendary/duo and epic chance.
For the next boon.
cunning urchin
If those rolls fail, you're guaranteed at least a rare boon, though.
empty robin
Does anyone find Dash Nova buggy?
I often get teleported randomly or dash into a single direction when I use my special
devout ether
Wouldnt know, never take it
abstract badger
I assume legendary boons could potentially turn a run into a god run?
abstract badger
But it's not a guaranteed win probably
robust anchor
yes :(
devout ether
Blade rifts>>>>doom anyday
@still vigil Just attempted a blade rift run with poseidon sword, cannot confirm.
Emphasis attempted
still vigil
Ya didn't shed enough blood fer ares's liking
cunning urchin
@empty robin yeah that's been an issue from the start. Been reported many times.
abstract badger
How many runs it takes to beat the game atleast once?
One successful escape that is
open yacht
how many breads have you eaten in your life?
floral matrix
Anything can be achieved with Athena dash and enough patience
open yacht
lol
robust anchor
it took me about 758 tries before i won once
cunning urchin
I had 30-something, I think.
abstract badger
Well me is probably the most noobie player out there. Since I'm not a god on dodge heavy roguelites.
I reached elysium in like run 19 but i feel the deadly duo will make me stay there for a while
frail schooner
they’re not that bad once you get used to them
cunning urchin
I hadn't played any roguelike before.
floral matrix
you want to kill the bull first while hiding behind pillars when Theseus targets you
open yacht
I was stuck in elysium right around the time I had to read A Midsummer Night's Dream for english class
frail schooner
i find the final boss to be the hardest one tbh
abstract badger
Oh i feel final boss will take the longest
open yacht
and every time theseus showed up in the book I was inherently salty
abstract badger
Comparing gungeon dragun to hades the dragun looks like nothing.
open yacht
Hades is my first and only roguelike atm
but It's easily become one of my favourite games
sweet blade
How many iframes does the dash have?
open yacht
rate my spear build
it's probably ass
dionysus attack
athena dash
any and all support boons
artemis special
and demeter or ares cast
pliant anvil
What's the synergy here supposed to be? Or is this just how your run ended up?
I mean, you could swap dio attack for ares attack (or get ares special) and aim for merciful end
floral matrix
when is dionysus attack ever not ass
floral matrix
you're new, that's cool but try to do some math in your head
open yacht
synergy lies in the boons that buff all the individual skills
which I always try to get
pliant anvil
Dio attack is only okish on that boon list with very high attack speed weapons like the rail
floral matrix
high attack rate = you won't want a damage over time boon
pliant anvil
but even then it's only OKish with that build
floral matrix
wait it stacks?
open yacht
and I like dionysus attack because the spear is fairly slow
pliant anvil
yeah it stacks
floral matrix
oh
pliant anvil
Up to 5 times base
open yacht
so dot really helps
floral matrix
well I'd rather stack some crits into them faces
pliant anvil
you'd probably get more from ares attack with that build tbh
because merciful end is bonkers for damage
way more than an unsupported dot
sweet blade
Even once the softcap is reached, poms always buff Dio dots by 10 DPS
floral matrix
can fated persuasion give you the same buff with higher rarity?
pliant anvil
A properly supported dio can be pretty good though. I.e. legendary and/or curse of nausea
floral matrix
that's cool, I also often get literally 2 out of 3 same
I think it needs some artificial fairness
"fairness"
pliant anvil
I mean, it used to be able to give you the same three boons before iirc
floral matrix
I might have had that happen today
pliant anvil
If it does, take a screenshot and report it, they fixed it so it shouldn't iirc
floral matrix
I'm not certain
anyway considering successive rerolls cost more, they should more reliably improve your situation
instead of potentially providing no new options
or one out of 3
sweet blade
On the mirror, which talents should you just not bother with (either because they're bad or because the other one is just WAY better)?
pliant anvil
Eh, I get where you're coming from, but too much control over boon choices removes some of the roguelite aspect
floral matrix
true, that's why you have the Pact and that's why they cost more and more
open yacht
I haven't found much use for the second half of the mirror tbh
proven sierra
On the mirror, which talents should you just not bother with (either because they're bad or because the other one is just WAY better)?
@sweet blade deep pockets are underrated imo
fiery confidence requires a VERY HIGH skill ceiling to benefit from
open yacht
the first half fits my playstyle a lot more
proven sierra
i've started really appreciating dodge change and so i have started doing more of the single-dash builds instead of the double-dash builds
pliant anvil
imo my most disliked list:
Fiery Presence
Stubborn Defiance
Abyssal Blood
Ruthless Reflex
Golden Touch
Olympian Favor
Gods' Pride
Fated Authority
floral matrix
dark foresight is great when you've reached the endgame and stop caring about meta rewards
pliant anvil
Most tiers are pretty well balanced, or provide situational buffs (i.e. privileged status vs fam fave)
floral matrix
yeah stubborn defiance is for poeple who want to die in basic chambers and it hurts your boss chances a lot in return, not a good pick
pliant anvil
But some personally are just way better, i.e. greater reflex or death defiance
I thought stubborn could be useful with Guan Yu, but I just can't find a way to make it useful.
Maybe if it restored equal or more HP as death defiance
And abyssal blood is just a weaker weak, but with a slow aspect to it
floral matrix
The nice thing about this game is you generally figure things out over time, with the exception of exact damage numbers on your builds etc, you can imagine what's going to help you and what won't
pliant anvil
instead of a damage boost
floral matrix
which boons will be good for crowds and which for bosses etc
pliant anvil
and then you have stuff like eris rail where it does both 😛
pliant anvil
it's disgusting
sweet blade
oh, percentage based effects that increase your damage all stack additively, right? e.g. 50% on attack from a god and 40% from chaos is 90%, not 110% if it was multiplicatively
pliant anvil
so, a white zeus attack boon is 13 damage, rail base is 10, and if you're lucky and get zeus legendary, that's another 40 damage
yeah, it's additively iirc
floral matrix
yes
although some things give you +BASE damage, like the Hestia aspect
or the +300% rail secondary hammer mod
so if you get 100% bonus on top of that you'll literally oneshot a room
pliant anvil
then you can through in a base 75% from eris to raise your damage from 63 to 110 per shot roughly (assuming you get the legendary boon which is a big if)
floral matrix
base * bonus is the math, in short
sweet blade
but damage dealt and increased damage taken by enemies (like Aphrodites sweet surrender) work multiplicatively together
pliant anvil
yeah, it's base * bonus basically
That I'm not sure of, but I think so from my experience
floral matrix
must be, otherwise Chaos would be OP
sweet blade
I mean, chaos IS op
floral matrix
and that's also why Aphrodite, Poseidon and Artemis are recommended on Hestia, cause it has high base damage and the bonuses are worth more
don't get why they buffed aphrodite damage now, she's probably the best raw stat now
pliant anvil
Hm. Maybe a lack of a damage related status outside of the "take more damage" boon?
proven sierra
don't get why they buffed aphrodite damage now, she's probably the best raw stat now
@floral matrix she always has been and she still is! and, it's on purpose/by design
pliant anvil
I thought she tied with like, Demeter or someone?
proven sierra
that the goddess of love, yknow, who everyone thinks of as peaceful and loving and affectionate and kind, does more raw damage than anyone else
you'd think it should be ares
but it's aphrodite
pliant anvil
or was it someone else who tied with Demeter?
proven sierra
athena and demeter are tied, iirc
pliant anvil
Ahhh that's prolly it
sweet blade
ares can do more damage if you go for something rapid fire and the doom stack boon
pliant anvil
It's better to go for merciful end/impending doom
get athena on dash, and doom on attack/special and then athena on the other
floral matrix
@proven sierra there's actually a line somewhere in the game that love does more destruction than war
so that checks out
pliant anvil
Because it allows you to get some VERY crazy burst as you're forcing doom to skip the waiting time and proc right away
it's better than stacking doom because it also adds 40 doom damage
floral matrix
merciful end requires you to use an athena attack though
pliant anvil
or athena special, yeah
floral matrix
or special
floral matrix
yeah I tried that
and then selling the attack
sadly never get the build when I actually aim for it lol
pliant anvil
Ah, see you can't sell the attack until you get mericful end
floral matrix
yes
pliant anvil
or did you sell it after you got it?
floral matrix
I either don't find the dash later or don't find the attack after I get the dash
etc
pliant anvil
Ahh yeah, I always get unlucky with it too (except for like, one time) and I never get the dash either
even when I threw like, 4 dice at it over the course of a run
proven sierra
im playing with underworld customs and for ALL THREE BIOMES i ended up selling the exact same boon which i really wanted but never as much as the other boons i had on offer
floral matrix
if you love something, set it free
brisk sapphire
combo Poseiden dash + hermes dash sturdy+speed + 100% bonus damage from speed and 75% bonus damage from rail
doing like 300 damage a dash at the end
proven sierra
on a scale of 1 to 1,000, how dishonorable is save scumming?
1000?
probably 1000
unkempt pagoda
m8 if you're not trying to get onto an unseeded leaderboard it doesn't matter lol
proven sierra
idk if youre going for achievements or your statues it KIND OF matters
like it doesn't "matter"
but yknow
it kinda does
unkempt pagoda
why does it
proven sierra
because it goes against the spirit of the game!
unkempt pagoda
i think there’s a very definitive reason why Give Up resets your save rather than give you a new seed, in spite of some people’s complaints that it should
proven sierra
hmm, that's an interesting point
unkempt pagoda
and like... it’s a single-player game, if it matters to you, then play it how you want
random orbit
Does anyone have a good build for the shield of chaos? I have been trying to get pass hades with the shield and none of my builds seems to work. I tried ares and Aphrodite
unkempt pagoda
i’ll only take issue if you try to cast dishonor on other people for playing how they want
y’know?
pliant anvil
@random orbit I like shield of zeus with zeus on the special, but the hidden aspect makes for a good cast build too
random orbit
I have unlocked all of the shields and was trying the hidden aspect but I just seems not to be able to deal much damage
pliant anvil
so, my suggestion for the hidden aspect is take the +2 cast talent and privileged status, Force aphrodite to start, then force demeter and get snow burst
that sets up a very easy 40% damage increase, and does a lot of damage. I think my most recent run was hitting well over 1k per cast combo
random orbit
I’m going to try this. I’m don’t really do much focus on casting and focus on more attack and special when choosing boons. Thanks @pliant anvil for the help
pliant anvil
np!
The big thing about the shield hidden aspect is you get to immediately grab your casts again
proven sierra
Boon tips to unlock "Bad Call?"
Zeus, Aphrodite, I guess?
pliant anvil
bad call?
proven sierra
the achievemnt
pliant anvil
oooh
proven sierra
using the full god gauge call of a god currently fighting you during Trial of the Gods
pliant anvil
Hm, that sounds more like getting stuff that generates call
i.e. hermes auto gen, zeus's "dealing/taking damage charges faster"
proven sierra
that's what i meant by zeus
random orbit
I’m on the switch version
proven sierra
the only duo i can think of is zeus/aphro which caps your gauge at 25% so that won't work
random orbit
😭
pliant anvil
Yeah, I think the best bet is go zeus, and hope to get the auto charge from hermes
At least, that'd be the most reliable way of getting a greater call before the event ends
mighty ermine
what i did for that was just let myself get hit to build call during the trial. as long as you go in with decent health, it's not hard
proven sierra
ahhh, nice tip
opal lodge
you can also go for it in elysium
and let enemies respawn until you get greater call
that's what i did
its painful but it works
in terms of boons you're looking for boiling point from poseidon, clouded judgement from zeus and quick favor from hermes
opal lodge
aspect and boon type?
opal lodge
seems like something that would really depend on what kind of build you're going for
opal lodge
i'd do aphro but cant go wrong either way
the rarity on arty core boons isnt as important as the secondary boons that boost the crit damage
normal jackal
I'm new, what's the best build for shield zagreus lv3?
devout ether
Literally anything at zero heat, shield is hard to build "wrong"
normal jackal
😭 👍
devout ether
But if you just want to get a win, go with Athena boons I guess
restive patio
All I've got is a Lv2 Chiron Bow, someone know a build that can bail me out with that? My mirror is pretty much maxxed purple, and golden touch + dark regen, except for death defiance, which is missing one level.
devout ether
Again, at zero heat, it's hard to go wrong with anything. Artemis on special is usually the go-to with Chiron, but at that low level you might want Dio special, even
Demeter special can also be good for stacking chill
devout ether
At that point, worry less about builds and more about just learning the game.
bright sandal
Dude, at this point Charon is the only thing that can end my run in this game (until I get way higher in heat at least). Literally I've only lost my run twice in the last 30 runs and both have been Charon. It's not that his patterns are hard but the fact that he hits so hard he basically two shots you.
astral fjord
that and he has like triple hades' HP lol
proven osprey
the fact that you don't get to practice him too
frail schooner
does charon really have 50k hp?
proven osprey
nah
frail schooner
sure feels like it when you fight him boonless in tartarus kek
frail schooner
oh he only has 16500 hp without EM5
proven osprey
anyway the fight is over at 20%
mossy light
that feeling when your run is going badly so you challenge the secretboss to commit suicide but you win
proven osprey
just walk on a trap man
bright sandal
The thing about his pattern being easy but hitting hard is that variance when fighting him is real big. You could perfect him on a good day but also lose all your DDs on a bad day with the same run because you got hit a few more times
azure walrus
I'm wondering if Fists if Gilgamesh are even worth upgrading. How often does main detonate anyway. 4s is a pretty long time for most non boss enemies
pliant anvil
they're fun, but they're not the "best" fist choice imo
azure walrus
I like using them, I'm just not sure if they're worth upgrading, if all it affects is the detonation damage
devout ether
It goes up to I think 450 damage, which is definitely a chunk
dusky nimbus
The burst is prob meant to be extra damage on bosses/ mini bosses since normal enemies dont usually have that bulk
azure walrus
Fair enough, 450 is pretty substantial as a doom
dusky nimbus
i have never gotten 450 doom before
at most maybe 200-300
but with curse of longing u can easily do more than that over time
opal lodge
why do big doom numbers when you can do a bunch of doom numbers with no delay
this post made by the merciful end fists gang
dusky nimbus
on inevitable doom boon, when they say multiple stacks of doom does it mean when u apply multiple stacks at once before doom effect strikes or when u literally put more and more doom stacks over time?
opal lodge
what youre describing is dire misfortune
azure walrus
I meant, as a doom like stack, I know maim isn't actually doom
opal lodge
and its before the effect strikes
dusky nimbus
oh oops i meant that
opal lodge
yep
dusky nimbus
i cant see the actual stacks tho, so like i interpret it as constant stacks
opal lodge
impending doom is generally better for big numbers but the extra delay can hurt
dusky nimbus
but if thats the case impending doom greatly buffs dire misfortune
half crater
impending doom has no extra delay
#mercifulend
dusky nimbus
i still prefer curse of longing over merciful end
opal lodge
depends on the weapon
i remember when i first asked about it everyone was like ME> CoL
half crater
more seriously, impending is worth it for all doom builds imo
unkempt pagoda
misfortune actually makes the case that fast strikers are better for doom builds than slow ones lol
half crater
ME is pretty solid on basically any weapon honestly
it’s just not top tier on a lot of them
opal lodge
it just doesnt make much of a difference for some aspects
dusky nimbus
its not something i'll explicitly look for but if it shows up i would take it still
opal lodge
like aspect of chaos + curse of pain is really good
but ME doesn't really do much for it
dusky nimbus
provided athena is on my special or attack
dusky nimbus
also guys how does crush shot work on a hera bow?
half crater
the same as usual
dusky nimbus
isit still short ranged?
half crater
yup
opal lodge
@half crater how do you run it on chaos
dusky nimbus
oh thats dissapointing
opal lodge
i feel like if anything curse of agony + divine flourish would work better on chaos but then you lose so much of the room clear ability that makes it good
thats if youre trying to force ME
dusky nimbus
any other casts other than tripply flare that hera does good on?
gray shore
my hot take is- GY is good and I will fite anyone who disagrees
dusky nimbus
im getting slightly bored, i mean it works v well but i wanna try out smth new
kind egret
Aphro, Poseidon, Athena are all great casts
unkempt pagoda
any except crystal beam (unless you're going cold embrace) and slicing shot (unless you're going hunting blades)
dusky nimbus
i do wanna try blizzard shot on hera
half crater
i wouldn’t usually build for it, to be fair, but it’s alright
dusky nimbus
i havent found mirage shot yet
half crater
also you can special at a group of enemies then bull rush through them
idk i haven’t done it in a while; might be worse than i’m remembering
opal lodge
maybe i should try curse of nausea with chaos
dusky nimbus
curse of nausea can work wonders on a bow, chiron or hera is not too bad
dusky nimbus
i tried a sea storm build with chaos, with posidon's cast, call, attack with his legendary
opal lodge
sea storm is tough just because of how much tempest strike sucks
half crater
oh i went tempest flourish
dusky nimbus
its good damage but it needs time for lightning and the second knockback to activate more lightning, and it does fall off towards the end
i mean fun but not exactly good for roomclear
dusky nimbus
right now im experimenting with the sword, im just going RAW DAMAGE, with heartbreak strike, demeter on special, crush shot, parting shot and demeter call with artic blast
not bad the damage honestly
opal lodge
i would honestly just get rid of demeter with that and go full cast
dusky nimbus
athena dash ofc
opal lodge
maybe get some artemis and poseidon
dusky nimbus
full cast on the sword?
dusky nimbus
ohhh well I used excalibur but im sure it would work better on poseidon
i had the exit wound boon too... it was perfect
but still pretty solid
since crushshot is faster than my attacks, it does come in handy against certain enemies
opal lodge
lol i always just try to get hyper sprint and face tank in the holy ground
dusky nimbus
lmao, that works too
azure walrus
lol I just ran a semi sarcastic cast on damage taken build
Free 220 Doom, lightning and reflect every 3 seconds
mossy light
focus on grenades, so get stuff that bolsters your special
half crater
or just play hestia
mossy light
i mean, most weapons you can focus on your attack, special, or cast. the rail has a better special than attack i think, aside from the 4th rail
azure walrus
The special is very hard to use reliably though
mossy light
ehhhhhh, it can be tricky, but with a hazard bomb/triplebomb/spread bomb hammer it doesnt really matter
or rockets
opal lodge
dionysus on attack if you dont want to use zeus for some reason
half crater
targeting system as well
opal lodge
you could get tempest strike if you're really trying to be original
mossy light
the point being, i always take special over attack hammers for the rail
open heron
the special hammers are all nuts
unkempt pagoda
spoken like a true rail player
solid cairn
Rail and bow have the best hammer
opal lodge
i like fist attack hammers
idk why there are so many trash fist special hammers though
solid cairn
Fist has great attacks
opal lodge
breaching cross +900% is just a little excessive imo
like
why
not complaining
just
why
solid cairn
Breaching cross is maybe the best “extra armor damage” hammer
half crater
... maybe?
solid cairn
Definitely*
opal lodge
breaching skewer with GY?
solid cairn
Colossus knuckle is actually really good
solid cairn
That already does so much damage
opal lodge
i like long knuckle + breaching knuckle
unkempt pagoda
breaching cross used to be 1000%
solid cairn
Fists are a bunch of small hits
solid cairn
So the extra armor damage is super noticeable
half crater
only +900% it’s terrible now
solid cairn
It also affects dash upper btw
opal lodge
actually rebalanced btw
mossy light
the only armor damage hammer that bugs me is the rails
mossy light
and maybe the spears if i have achilles
solid cairn
Rail has a bunch of attack hammers that barely have a difference
unkempt pagoda
It also affects dash upper btw
wait what
breaching cross impacts the dash special
...
aaammmmiiirrrrrr
solid cairn
All basically the same
Flurry fire
Delta chamber is the best attack hammer by a good margin
opal lodge
and then spread fire which can actively ruin stuff
half crater
honestly armour disappears so quickly with breaching cross i’m not even sure it matters whether it effects special or not
unkempt pagoda
my complaint list about hammer terminology grows day by day
solid cairn
Idk if it was nerfed from what it was before
opal lodge
delta chamber was buffed iirc
solid cairn
Everything dash strike affects dash upper
unkempt pagoda
delta chamber has had a long history
half crater
piercing fire’s prolly alright with hestia
solid cairn
Chaos, Hunter dash,
half crater
true
mossy light
i cant wait to finish my bounties so i can just do whatever
unkempt pagoda
delta chamber used to be infinity chamber, which was broken as all hell bc it was literally just infinite ammo (also it outclassed a cut hammer that i really want back 😔 ). it was changed to old delta chamber, which was so slow that it lost dps. in 1.0, it was shadow-buffed to its current iteration
mossy light
turn of the unfun pacts like the 2 hit shield
solid cairn
Oh so it was broken
unkempt pagoda
it was just straight pew-pew, no drawbacks
unkempt pagoda
the burst fire of today is the compromise for having infinite ammo
half crater
i had delta chamber with epic swift strike recently
solid cairn
Rocket is insane
mossy light
spread bomb. always spread bomb
half crater
reminded me of the good old infinity chamber days
opal lodge
rocket is indeed the way
solid cairn
Instant eris buff
opal lodge
rocket cluster
unkempt pagoda
no
opal lodge
i dont rate triple as much as targeting but both are good
solid cairn
Rail special hammers are all really solid except hazard
unkempt pagoda
wdym hazard is great
solid cairn
Triple is hard to control
open heron
triple + targeting is where its at lol
unkempt pagoda
umpty dumpty 300% special damage go brr
half crater
what how
solid cairn
Idk
half crater
it’s just rocket, except more
opal lodge
cluster + targeting and rocket + targeting both feel nice
solid cairn
Bow hammers are pretty good
mossy light
who cares if it feels weird or might be a dps downgrade. you have a semiauto rocket lawn chair
opal lodge
twin + PB shot on rama is nice
solid cairn
Triple shot is better
opal lodge
i believe
half crater
how is it a dps downgrade lol
solid cairn
Explosive shot is just not good lol
solid cairn
I feel bad for my enemies
half crater
try cluster rocket instead, then; you can’t feel bad for them if they aren’t there
half crater
triple chain is lit
opal lodge
triple chain feels nice until you get to EM4 dad and have no damage
unkempt pagoda
arrow pachinko
opal lodge
LOL
unkempt pagoda
nah the big brain strat is aiming at a skull/summon to get +15% on dad
mossy light
going to hades without a special bow build
solid cairn
Rama machine gun special
half crater
i legit just used the special on rama for an embarrassing amount of time
mossy light
i actually did a non-special rama bow build today. it was fine
half crater
just ignored its attack lol
mossy light
one of yall taught me how to dash attack on the bow
unkempt pagoda
i remember the very first high heat rama vid i watched was on its release, and it was just spamming thunder flourish over and over
mossy light
it works.
open heron
my current run i have twin shot + hangover attack +numbing sensation
i mean i cant say its good but it does stack the DoTs
mossy light
but muh damage
outer cave
is there a keepsake tierlist
dry ember
Not really. There is a "preferred" keepsake sequence though.
God - God - Acorn - Acorn
Some variations exists, of course.
outer cave
i recently got the game and i was trying to figure out who to give my nectar to
dry ember
give one to everyone you see at least once
I find acorn useful for the later stages
so if you want to future proof a bit, gift Eurydice.
solid cairn
I suck at cast builds
maybe it's because I'm jumping straight into 32 heat lol
I do really like flood shot
mossy light
cast builds are the best
@outer cave i recommend converting gems into keys and nectar and giving it to everyone, but thats just me
unlocking your mirror and weapons is the key to getting stronger
that, and getting gud
outer cave
im 3 hours in and consistently getting into elysium
mossy light
i usually get my first win after getting death defiance to two lives, and upgrading the mirror to the point it improves my survivability
outer cave
yeah rn i have only 1 extra life
solid cairn
but it's hard
mossy light
You need the right duos, like demeter+Artemis or demeter+poseidon
jovial harness
speaking of cast builds i remember peopel defending crush shot around here but i dont get it
mossy light
Some casts are only good for support. And some weapons are better for casts
solid cairn
I know
it's juard hard for me to find space and just stand back without getting hit for casting
mossy light
@jovial harness neither do I. It's not part of a duo, so I don't care
solid cairn
just
mossy light
Try the hera bow
mossy light
You'll get the hang of it eventually
jovial harness
maybe i just need to suck it up on using white boons if its a boon i really need and ive been having bad luck
mossy light
I grab the boon that's most likely to be a duo prerequisite. Usually a cast
jovial harness
hrm, it seems like there's a fair amount of duos that either suck or are pretty situational at least
mossy light
Some are weak yeah, but almost all are great. And they sell for 400 if nothing else
vagrant olive
darn the arrow spamming upgrade is nice
you can completely negat the arrows of the lava noodle in the first phase
placid topaz
guan yu is pretty punishing if you dont have it maxed
placid topaz
and when you do, its still recommended you play around with the special
mossy light
its fine
solid cairn
gotta play safe
placid topaz
focus on the special and play it like a ranged weapon
vague ermine
my special only did like 200
solid cairn
disagree with first one, agree with second
proven parcel
this is the internet age
so we cannot disagree on something
I'll meet you at the 7-11 for fisticuffs
vague ermine
i seriously dont get why GY is considered god tier or whatever
sand sorrel
GY is fine but it's not really god tier
vague ermine
50% hp for a weak lifesteal thats almost impossible to use in boss fights
proven parcel
like all my streak killers have been using 4th aspects
solid cairn
GY is fine but it's not really god tier
agree
proven parcel
they definitely change the way the weapons play
solid cairn
the lifesteal isn't very good
proven parcel
but it doesn't change them for the best
sand sorrel
it's a very different playstyle
solid cairn
gilgamesh is just fists but not as good as demeter
opal lodge
beowulf is super nice
proven parcel
I need to use it more
opal lodge
i am biased coming off a run where i ran stygian soul and somehow ended with 5 bloostones
but
solid cairn
lucifer is basically just worse eris
opal lodge
it works
solid cairn
but eris is op so
proven parcel
lucifer is def eh
sand sorrel
beowulf is great with dionysus cast
maiden holly
I love lucifer
proven parcel
Eris is amazing
opal lodge
i think beo is nice if you run stygian and get another cast stone early
opal lodge
maybe
solid cairn
infernal is on par I think