Basically, if you avoid input errors, you won't get input errors.
#h1-builds-and-combat
hearty elbow
With Gilgamesh?
still vigil
With Gilgamesh
hearty elbow
Lol... You can do it intentionally every time if you hold attack while you dash
What I was describing was a very unfortunate situation where you do it without meaning to when you aren't holding attack
cunning urchin
You can also hold Dash while you Attack with Gilgamesh.
still vigil
Oh that one ik about☺️
hearty elbow
It's backwards tech in this case. Learn that weird timing and never do it :3
fossil compass
Time for another try of Hestia sniper build
Just stack damage increase right? Aphrodite weak effects + chaos boons?
cunning urchin
Just Heartbreak Strike + Divine Dash is enough.
Anything else is extra.
Deadly Strike does a lot of work, too.
still vigil
D<
lavish tinsel
untold iris
demeter I think?
all three non-hidden fists play pretty similarly though, so they're all pretty good
onyx parcel
whats the best fist aspecrt
@lavish tinsel demeter
steep kayak
What build is good for aspect of rama? I'm having hard time trying to go for one good build
willow fossil
The speedrun record rn for 50 heat was rama with artemis
dont know if good enough, but i find that impressive
steep kayak
Oh ye just saw that
fiery veldt
I'm mostly a "Theorycrafter" and just joined this server: Is there any Google document (or such) available with Game Mechanics? => Because I've already been on the Wiki and especially the Duo Boons are not precise there: Hit-rate and such things for Duos are stated nowhere. (I mean, how often per second all the Legendary Duo abilities hit. For example.)
If not, any info about "Blizzard Shot" would help me for a start. xD (Demeter+Poseidon Duo. Wiki only says "40 damage", so it definitely hits multiple times, but no idea how often/fast. ^^)
spare pivot
hey folks can anyone confirm how the %age gets in Last Stand gets added when death defy? eg if i'm running stubborn defiance, so 30% health on death, and I get legendary last stand, +14% - does that mean my health is 30+14=44%? OR is it +14% of 30%, so, some much smaller addition?
solid cairn
ok rama is amazing
hoary slate
That's additive. You'll get 44%
solid cairn
honestly I hope the speedrun community discovers it's the fastest bow because I really do not like hera
solid cairn
my opinion changed on achilles spear so maybe it will with hera
cunning urchin
Why don't you discover it's the fastest bow? Don't wait for somebody else to do it. 
fiery veldt
nobody is able to answer my questions above 😕 x'D ... P.S.: @solid cairn Can you tell me please which (best) spells are currently being played with 1. Hera and 2. Achilles?
--- By the way: The 150% damage increase from Achilles is probably only additive with damage Boons, right?
solid cairn
Why don't you discover it's the fastest bow? Don't wait for somebody else to do it.
@cunning urchin because I'm not as good or as qualified as other people
cunning urchin
Flood Shot for Hera, Electric Shot for Achilles.
They've all started somewhere, too.
finite socket
Holy crap no wonder Poseidon is just my most hated god, i want the dash but nooo he decided to give me the fishing legendary
solid cairn
fishing op
fiery veldt
Both (but rather normal game). --- I know it "works with everything" (you mean: "the 150% also applies to attacks") ; but I was thinking about so-called "diminishing returns": If the 150% is only additive with other damage increases, it won't be as strong as it seems in later regions. (-;
solid cairn
still really good
lusty sail
hiya
so i'm using a poseidon with sword
what boons should i go for
and what darkness should i aim to upgrade
fossil compass
I usually go aphrodite/artemis on cast
and exit wounds is a must
and pray for artemis legendary I guess
fossil compass
how much darkness do you have?
lusty sail
lemme check
fossil compass
if you're playing cast build, aim to get +2 ammo
lusty sail
in total
fossil compass
some of the darkness upgrade only work for attack and special
and you can always reset them
I would max 3x death defiance, 50 HP, +1 dash, +2 ammo
proven osprey
DD is like 1k5
nova flower
has anyone got builds for aspect of hera bow?
just unlocked the aspect and am curious what people think works well with the cast load effect it's got
narrow rampart
yall
it says here i can get hunting blades on beowulf https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/275669547921702912/770410340169154580/unknown.png
i distinctly remember that being made not possible a couple of updates ago
can somebody confirm if it's been changed?
bleak jay
I think it just shows you all boons? Not just what's available on current weapon
heavy raven
What trinkets do you all find you are playing?
and how do you play your weapons?
I find I don't really use cast so much
solid cairn
I mostly use the same keepsakes
proven osprey
I try to play my weapons well
heavy raven
I like to start with the Charon coinpurse
proven osprey
usually does not work
solid cairn
1 god's keepsake, then another, then whatever in elysium, then acorn in styx
heavy raven
you use acorn eh?
solid cairn
yes
heavy raven
I never really got into the habit of it
proven osprey
yeah
proven osprey
At low heat it's ok not to use it I would say
narrow rampart
I think it just shows you all boons? Not just what's available on current weapon
see i assumed so, but the fact that it shows slicing flare as one of the possible prerequisites got me confused
heavy raven
I play around 10 heat
proven osprey
Still an amazing one
narrow rampart
would be a lot more intuitive if slicing flare wasnt indicated as a prerequisite if it was in fact not possible to get hunting blades using beowulf
solid cairn
coin purse is great, the issue is you put yourself at a disadvantage by not being able to guarantee a god in your build
heavy raven
yeah true
gilded knoll
Eh, can still roll with randomness
heavy raven
I recently got persephones trinket, and it's pretty dirty
solid cairn
random runs can be fun tho
proven osprey
you can also go plume and let dodge win your run
solid cairn
pom blossom depends on the weapon
heavy raven
how so
solid cairn
since artemis attack and special don't scale well with poms it's not very good
heavy raven
oic
solid cairn
but on a cast build or something it can be great
gilded knoll
True, but you're also working with random ups
heavy raven
what do you guys look for in cast builds?
I find I end up playing either attack or special, or a combo
solid cairn
more casts
solid cairn
honestly you dont need to worry about casting unless the weapon is built around it
proven osprey
more cast, cast damage and some duos
heavy raven
Do you guys play with the mirror upgrade that removes the crystals?
solid cairn
some people do, I dont like it
heavy raven
and it's time based?
yeah I found I don't lile it either
But since I don't play cast builds, what do I know
haha
solid cairn
I used to not like them up until recently
with casts, you want chaos gates
extra max casts are generally far superior to cast damage up
especially on the timed one
solid cairn
yeah it's really good
solid cairn
there is a fun thing you can do with a certain keepsake
also, depends on weapon. Some benefit greatly from hammers, some don't
heavy raven
What keepsake? I only have skelly's extra one
heavy raven
2 or 3 hammers per run
solid cairn
there are certain well items that boost your max casts, and another boosts your damage
heavy raven
about the same chaos gates
proven osprey
2 hammers and not taking it makes the game want you to have these
heavy raven
That's what I found, 2 or 3 hammers max
heavy raven
chaos gates can be rare, but 1-2 natural, and you can buy
solid cairn
the anvil sacrifics one hammer and gives you 2 more
proven osprey
Idk how many runs I cleared without any gates or opportunities to force one
solid cairn
but yeah if you have charon's hourglass keepsake equipped, these extra cast well items last far longer, so you can stack a bunch of them
proven osprey
hammers are guaranteed
heavy raven
Yeah, but given the choice of a gate or a hammer, I pick hammer, but it's a close call
solid cairn
it can be really strong, and you can even pick up hydralites
cunning ibex
is the best way to use Hestia to just reload after every shot and treat it like a dang pump shotgun
heavy raven
Maybe I am not evaluating gates enough
proven osprey
Gates 100%
solid cairn
honestly with this game there is no "always do this"
proven osprey
you will get your hammer eventually
heavy raven
If you don't take a hammer though, does the game know, and spawn a new one?
solid cairn
sometimes I dont get hammers until elysium
heavy raven
Or is it lost?
solid cairn
unless you actively avoid hammers, you will get 2
heavy raven
That's the real question I guess
solid cairn
the game will offer you hammers in shops, as a room reward, etc. until you take it
heavy raven
If there is an allotment quota, that doesn't go away when you avoid a hammer rewartd
I will adjust my game
Ok
That's awesome, I did not know that
Gates make a lot more sense now
proven osprey
even in styx
solid cairn
this is super noticeable in elysium, pretty much every room reward is gonna be a hammer until you take it
untold iris
you can get one hammer max in tartarus/asphodel and one hammer max in elysium
solid cairn
I've gotten 2 hammers in elysium
untold iris
afterwards hammers are removed from the item pool
solid cairn
if you dont take a hammer beforehand, you can get 2 in elysium
heavy raven
ty SIlly I didn't not know that
cloud barn
you can get a max 1 hammer in tartarus + asphodel, and max 2 past elysium. you can get 3 daedalus upgrades from the anvil but that's risky
proven osprey
One of the styx gates can offer a hammer too
mossy light
i think cast builds have the craziest scaling
i just tore through hades with the poseidon cast & aspect with the demeter duo
proven osprey
yeah blizzard shot is incredible
heavy raven
Hey, how do I find out the base damage values of all my attacks?>
attack/special/cast etc
cloud jungle
@heavy raven hit an enemy 🙂
heavy raven
If there was an ingame representation, I would like to know
untold iris
wiki has base damages
cloud jungle
There isn't
untold iris
you can also hit skelly
cloud jungle
I know, I'd love base damage values too
solid cairn
I love taking anvil on nemesis hoping and praying for a double edge, only to get cursed slash
cloud jungle
Seeing +100% is pointless to me 😄
proven osprey
I love taking anvil on nemesis hoping and praying for a double edge, only to get cursed slash
@solid cairn lmao
solid cairn
this has actually happened to me more than once
proven osprey
getting cursed slash right at the end must be awesome
solid cairn
I wish I was joking
heavy raven
yeah, it would be nice to see the base damage, and all the boons that sit on each damage type
mossy light
and thats how i got cursed slash on arthur 
untold iris
cursed slash is not actually super awful imo
heavy raven
cursed slash is great
untold iris
its fine on regular swords
solid cairn
sigh here we go again
untold iris
its not the preferred playstyle but it does offer a powerful alternate playstyle on lower heats
cloud jungle
Cursed slash Arthur 😄
solid cairn
cursed slash would be fine if it worked on dash strikes. the issue is that the standard sword combo is slow and unsafe
proven osprey
sigh here we go again
@solid cairn your fault
mossy light
i have no idea how people use the slow weapons with forced overtime active
untold iris
a lot of new players have cursed slash as one of their early victories when they probably wouldn't be able to win without it
its completely fine to get unless you're doing high heat imo
like dash attack spamming is technically the ideal way to play but that doesnt mean that you cant win with different moves
solid cairn
on arthur it's actuall better since you can get a good amount of healing from hitting multiple targets and the health penalty is less severe, and I won't discredit it on that weapon
heavy raven
What are the easiest heats to take?
I take all the boss ones, armor ones, trap one, more enemies, more health
untold iris
trap one is a trap
solid cairn
those ones are actually pretty good
untold iris
its one of the worst options to take
mossy light
get forced overtime so you acclimate to it
solid cairn
I beat 32 heat with FO2 on arthur
heavy raven
forcedovertime, yeah that one has me scared
mossy light
and get money to buy more blood and diamonds
cloud jungle
I didn't use FO for Heat 32
solid cairn
it's so much heat
untold iris
the easiest options imo are CF, EM, BP, MM, TD
mossy light
you acclimate to FO if you never turn it off, i assume the same for the bosses
solid cairn
Silly that is sort of true
cloud jungle
Yeah but it's lots of learning 🙂
mossy light
em 3 and 4 are hard?
cloud jungle
EM3 is easy
solid cairn
EM2 is free
proven osprey
you have to practice EM4 really
solid cairn
I haven't done a single em4 run lol
heavy raven
Also, do you guys find your heat levels scale across all weapons? or do you specialize?
solid cairn
probably should get on that
untold iris
EM1, 2, and 3 are all the same or easier than the base fight imo
solid cairn
I have 32 heat on 3 weapons, trying to get it on all
heavy raven
like progress wise, all your weapons are in the same heat brackt
mossy light
@heavy raven im lazy, so i try to keep my heats even so i can leave them on
untold iris
except if you play with FO on, then EM3 is sometimes harder
cloud jungle
10 10 32 10 10 10 😄
untold iris
i have 2 heat on the spear
untold iris
since I havent touched it since my early days
cloud jungle
Shield
solid cairn
sword spear and fists are 32,rest are like 20
and I skipped a lot of bounties
my bow bounties are on like 5 lmao
heavy raven
Spear, bow and arrow (the auto aiming special one), lucifer and glove are my favorites, but I am learning shield now
mossy light
bow is my best weapon
woven vortex
im like 14 10 12 12 14 15 or such
solid cairn
let me check
woven vortex
didnt skip any bounty so far
mossy light
my weapons are at least 8, some as high as 14. though im on hell mode
unkempt bough
I just play on 28 heat by default
Spear is the only one I have 32 on lmao
heavy raven
the bow with the auto aiming special, with the daedelus incremental damage on concecutive hits, and extra special is the best build for me
woven vortex
hell mode also
cloud jungle
chiron consecutive
untold iris
the low heat weapons I have are really low because I just havent touched them since I first started the game
untold iris
once I finish grinding the sword bounties I'll probably move to one of my low heat weapons to learn it lol
solid cairn
32 32 22 22 32 21
mossy light
i just love the caster weapons. the herabow with fast multi ranged casts and poseidon with +50 damage
solid cairn
what about achilles spear
cloud jungle
Anyway, was going to ask, any tips for gemstone farming?
untold iris
start with conch
woven vortex
yea what i said about spaming into victory at lower heat when u know the game well, i guess less so in hell mode
untold iris
take chaos gates always
cloud jungle
conch or chaos egg?
solid cairn
by the time I knew about hell mode I was way too far into my save to want to restart
untold iris
conch
woven vortex
i love hell mode
untold iris
chaos egg doesnt matter as much since you should be able to take the hp loss on low heat
heavy raven
opk, what is hell mode?
untold iris
conch opens up early ocean's bounty and huge catch
cloud jungle
I thought egg for good luck 🙂
mossy light
hardmode, starts you on heat 5 with a special pact that removes your mercy invuln
untold iris
huge catch is really nice because styx fish can give up to 150 gemstones
woven vortex
the one unique difference in hell mode is that, if you take a burst of damage, you take the full damage (no invulnerability for short time at some burst threshold), also you start at 5 heat yeah
heavy raven
how do I access hellmode?
woven vortex
there are 5 heat conditions that you cant remove at all
untold iris
you get hell mode by starting a file on hell mode
woven vortex
you get hellmode by starting a save checked for hell mode
heavy raven
oh
solid cairn
yeah I aint restarting a save lol
untold iris
the only real difference is the thing that removes burst invulnerability
cloud jungle
no one is going to restart 😄
untold iris
but tbh that doesn't trigger super often unless your hp pool is tiny or you literally get hit by everything on the map at once
woven vortex
i think restarting a save would be interesting at some point but i would make another hell mode
untold iris
since I think the shield you get after taking burst damage scales with your hp pool
cloud jungle
not until 5 years when we've all forgotten the game
finite socket
So i'm running Aspect of Lucifer and i got Storm Lightning, Zeus' Call and his Special
Already got the attack and Static Discharge btw
finite socket
Bonus bounces on chain lightning effects
woven vortex
that can be quite nice
mossy light
do they bounce back to targets already hit?
woven vortex
i think not always
maybe depends on distance or they just dont do that im not sure they do bounce on walls
woven vortex
ok
mossy light
are there good shield special builds that arent zeus? chaos or zag specials never end well for me
brisk lintel
what's the rail speedrun build ?
willow fossil
Chaos is meant to be a special shield
what's the rail speedrun build ?
@brisk lintel eris zeus
brisk lintel
why eris tho? should i rly use the special?
willow fossil
Zeus
willow fossil
Just check any speedrun
brisk lintel
yh
brisk lintel
ty for the answers tho
willow fossil
proven osprey
stark ore
proven osprey
you can upload on imgur
willow fossil
Then copy the link
willow fossil
Everything is tbh
untold iris
i think shadow presence is usually better
proven osprey
I thought people prefered abyssal blood ?
untold iris
and green on the last three is usually preferable imo
brisk lintel
btw i'm really going to reach the final ending without unlocking the rail aspect
ffs
i used the world record choices for the screen tho (except last one)
jovial harness
what are everyone's least favorite aspects
proven osprey
I don't really like shield in general
cinder dragon
I can't quite seem to get a sub-14 minute run, though I've been shopping different builds. Magnetic fists + Ares Dash seems really good, since you can pull and keep people in the blades. Poseidon sword and Artemis cast is also just superb. What gets you the lowest clear times?
proven osprey
but maybe it will change in the long run
untold iris
sword used to be my least favorite but I put in some time recently and grinded it up to 32 heat
now its probably shield or spear
proven osprey
spear is magnificent bro
mossy light
chaos is my least favorite aspect
untold iris
i just havent played with those two weapons much
mossy light
though arthur is irritating me as well
untold iris
my spear is still on 2 heat because I havent touched it since the really early days
proven osprey
I can't quite seem to get a sub-14 minute run, though I've been shopping different builds. Magnetic fists + Ares Dash seems really good, since you can pull and keep people in the blades. Poseidon sword and Artemis cast is also just superb. What gets you the lowest clear times?
@cinder dragon I don't really try to speedrun but Malphon is fast imo. Also Eris, obviously
cinder dragon
Oh yeah, malphon with magnetic has had some of my fastest runs, though Stygias seems to get the most consistent results for speedruns.
Spear is easily my least favorite weapon. Sweep feels super slow to me, and I like mobility so damn much.
Achilles sort of makes up for that, but it just feels like a worse stygias in playstyle.
short ravine
chaos is my least favorite aspect
Just had a run where my bull rush was the charged shot, so that was my main damage dealer and the multiple shields were still underwhelming
proven osprey
stygias ?
brisk lintel
i lost a life bc i went fishing to near the lava
cinder dragon
Sword
mossy light
@brisk lintel congrats. thats a new one
just write it off and act like you did it to heal or something
proven osprey
well
what aspect then lol
Achilles gameplay is nothing like the sword
Try to run it with a cast build for a change
mossy light
i detest achilles 
proven osprey
empowered casts are no laughing matter
cinder dragon
Yeah. That's what got me 14:05.
finite socket
I don'tlike Achilles aspect personally
mossy light
fair enough. so treat it like a caster weapon?
because theres no way in hell im using that dash offensively
proven osprey
Yeah it works pretty well
finite socket
I just feel the skewer is just really weak
If i were to go a Cast build i would go Beowulf Shield
Or Poseidon Sword
proven osprey
150%
mossy light
herabow. dont get hit and multicast
proven osprey
that's all I have to say
mossy light
ill give that a shot sometime
brisk lintel
i may not doing my best run but 6:40 after lernie is good enough for a first try haha
cinder dragon
Mhmm. Poseidon sword is suuuper good with that multiplier, plus it combos with Exit Wounds super nicely.
willow fossil
I thought people prefered abyssal blood ?
If youre speedrunning your goal is to kill stuff fast, where boiling blood is better
proven osprey
I think Nyan was saying that you gain dps by slowing stuff
cinder dragon
Not really. You're so mobile, you're always on top of things.
dry ember
wut
proven osprey
not sure about that
brisk lintel
it help i'd say ahah
finite socket
Theseus is just straight up the hardest boss in the game, change my mind
proven osprey
EM4
untold iris
theseus is easy once you learn his patterns
finite socket
Well another issue is also trying to deal with Asterius (Which i always try to beat first) alongside Theseus' spears
proven osprey
goojob
brisk lintel
ty
cunning urchin
I think Nyan was saying that you gain dps by slowing stuff
lol that's definitely not something I ever said.
proven osprey
ah
cunning urchin
Abyssal Blood is for eHP builds that just want to tank hits.
mossy light
i mean. relative to the enemy you increase your dps
proven osprey
I'm confused
half crater
it’s not free lol
proven osprey
I understand
half crater
it costs 50% damage
cunning urchin
Boiling Blood is for DPS, Abyssal Blood is for when you're just stacking damage reduction.
proven osprey
it was a mixed conversation
cinder dragon
With the iframes on dashes being so good, you almost never need to facetank things anyways lol.
cunning urchin
Abyssal Blood is basically just for Excalibur.
Maybe Zag Fists.
And maybe pure Cast builds because Cast doesn't benefit from Boiling Blood, anyway.
cinder dragon
I like it on Poseidon builds because you're using your special to dislodge the casts anyways.
Boiling blood, that is.
Not abyssal
proven osprey
half crater
I use boiling on pos as well, but now i think about it i can see an argument for abyssal there
since cast retrieval is basically the only time you have any reason to go near enemies (sword attacks lol), so that’s when you’re in the most danger
sour prairie
I can't seem to make achilles spear work out for me
I try to use zeus spell
but I didn't get more zeus in the run
so it just felt really lacking
proven osprey
yeah Zeus without more Zeus is not much fun
sour prairie
I just never feels rewarding to play spells tbh
spare flare
Did you not use Thunder Signet to see hin at least a second time?
prime island
That happens to me with zues all the time
sour prairie
do you guys think spells could use some buffing?
prime island
But then I pick dio and every time hes a choice and always in the shop lol
Idk dem casts are pretty op as is
prime island
I assume cast when I hear spells, maybe I'm off tho
willow fossil
If so, they are pretty strong depending on the aspect and build
Achilles and poseidon can get some nutty cast buils
Same for hera and beowulf
prime island
Artemis cast with the double shot duo is pretty filthy
sour prairie
sry, I meant cast
kindred trout
didnt skip any bounty so far
@woven vortex You can't actually "skip" bounties. Like if you skip directly from 0 heat to 6 heat, you'll earn bounties for 1 heat. Then you can run 6 heat again and earn bounties for 2 heat, then 3, etc.
robust plume
Relentless or concentrated volley for chiron bow?
kindred trout
Concentrated should be better if you have +% boons, I think. Relentless is +4 hits = 40 base damage. Concentrated is either +0-21 or +3-24, not sure. If it's 0-21 that sums to about 40 base damage, if it's 3-24 that sums to over 50.
boreal ermine
How does Spread Fire work with Hestia rail?
spare flare
What do you mean? Nothing changes.
boreal ermine
OK thanks
solid cairn
Only one shot is affected @boreal ermine
The rest do normal damage
Either that or the power shot doesn’t have the extra ones at all
I can’t remember, been ages since I used Hestia lol
mighty ermine
hestia's empowered shot is unaffected by spread fire's range modifier, but normal, non-empowered shots are affected
solid cairn
Oh btw tailesque did you see bablo get 8:22 with rama
mighty ermine
no i didn't, very nice
solid cairn
Some are saying it may replace hera in all weapons
toxic wolf
Hmm. Swap Rare Deadly Flourish (+98% special damage, 20% crit) for Epic Frost Flourish (+179% damage, chill)? Using Chaos shield.
(it's at level 6, might get more pom later)
toxic wolf
I've got Privileged Status and that'll make it a bit easier to keep it up I suppose
(otherwise I've been keeping it up with Exposed and Doom)
mighty ermine
i wouldn't be surprised. rama is just really consistent, and most hammers are good for it
spare flare
What are the other options, Zio?
toxic wolf
Crystal Beam or Ravenous Will. No more rolls.
spark meteor
Chaos aspect’s special is so much better w status inflicts so id prefer putting on the frost special
spare flare
It's a good trade, but other options might be straight upgrades.
toxic wolf
I'm on pretty low heat but it's EM4.
kindred trout
DPS-wise if you have any other damage bonuses the crit still does more damage, but I really like chill as a status.
solid cairn
Chill could be interesting
spare flare
Ravenous Will at what rarity?
toxic wolf
rare
solid cairn
Maybe try to get the arctic blast
The one where max chill stacks make enemies explode
kindred trout
Does it open up or deny any relevant duos?
spare flare
Any other Demeter things going for you? Other crit things?
solid cairn
Demeter is weird
toxic wolf
I do have Clean Kill for +15% but I'm not sure how much extra damage that's actually adding up to rn
and as for duos, nah, I'm in styx so
spare flare
It's a 3.15 crit multiplier.
solid cairn
Chill is quite nice for chaos shield
spare flare
Last question: Stygian or Abyssal?
solid cairn
Wut
spare flare
Blood.
solid cairn
You mean infernal?
spare flare
Ravenous Will.
toxic wolf
Stygian. I think. +25% damage right? That one.
spare flare
No, the bloodstones!
solid cairn
Wut
toxic wolf
Oh, like which reload type? Default one. They drop on the ground. Can't recall which one that's named.
spare flare
Infernal Soul, I meant, or Stygian Soul?
solid cairn
Depends
spare flare
Infernal.
solid cairn
I don’t like Stygian
toxic wolf
iirc there are some strats for Stygian for Trippy Shot but I've never used it at all
spare flare
So Ravenous Will if you get a lot of damage from other sources and Arctic Flourish if the special is the king.
Stygian is nice. Infernal's good for burst and Lightning Rod.
Given the fact that it's Chaos Aegis, I'd guess Frost Flourish.
solid cairn
Not a fan of trippy shot
spare flare
Pff, what? That thing's amazing!
solid cairn
Ehh
I don’t doubt that
I just don’t like it
What I do like is basically everything besides trippy shot and slicing shot
Flood shot is my favorite cast
spark meteor
I kinda understand the lobbing time lag for trippy shot can be a bit clunky sometimes esp with jumping enemies
toxic wolf
Poseidon/Arty cast builds with flood shot and mirage are some of my favorite
spark meteor
Flood is def a favorite
toxic wolf
but I like Dio/Zeus builds for uh...what's it, Scintillating Feast? Lightning bolts in trippy haze?
spark meteor
Also art’s cuz u can just fire blindly at Theseus with ut
toxic wolf
ended up doing the swap. Time to go die to EM4 final boss woot woot
aaaaalmost got him
spare flare
Congrats!
toxic wolf
turns out you can mess up a looooot if you've got shield and athena dash against him. Just invulnerable most of the time no worries!
split basin
How do you no boons run? I tried it today with sisyphus charm but There were two passive boons that I cannot purge and The offering was all passive, will it still counted as boon and the sisyphus charm effect will not be activated?
spare flare
What? Sisyphis just looks at slotted boons.
split basin
Is his charm effect will still activated if I take passive boons?
mighty ermine
shackle only cares about attack, special, and cast core boons, or lack thereof
spare flare
IF(Slot1=0,+S,0)
split basin
The one who is not in the attack slot i mean
Ohhh
So it is okay to take passive boons? Like dionysus boons that let you full restore hp on fountains?
spark meteor
Yes
mighty ermine
yes, it has no effect on the shackle
spare flare
It works on your attack if you don't have an attack slot boon.
Ditto special.
Ditto cast.
All three are independent.
No unslotted boon is checked.
calm sandal
When do you get I-Frames while dashing? Its been fairly reliable, but ive had many times where I have died mid dash and death's defiance has activated while moving
spare flare
Confirmed: When you pick up a god'a boon, it is added to your pool of availability whether or not you have already filled in four gods of availability.
In other words, if you get four different, non-Hermes, non-Chaos gods' boons in Tartarus and use a different god keepsake in each subsequent area, by the end, 7 non-Hermes, non-Chaos gods will be in your availability pool. In Styx, one of them, the one from your latest god keepsake, will only exist for a single boon, and the others will be pulled from the other 6 of your availability pool.
Family Favorite can, under these circumstances, provide a bonus of up to 40%, as it does count Hermes. I'm not recommending this path, though, as it sacrifices the building steroid of Chthonic Coin Purse and the huge survivability increase of Evergreen Acorn (or, if going with a massive eHP build, Spiked Collar), and if you're really in love with a 40% boost, it seems to me that Privileged Status is an easier condition to fulfill.
@calm sandal Known bug. Happens to me all the time when wielding Varatha.
dry ember
Not sure if that is a bug.
But the dash iframe can be tight, so it can be hard to time it right. Also, if you dash strike, people here said the moment you input your attack command, you lose your i frames
dry ember
I mean yes, but you can retain some i frames pre attack command
you can test with bow, it's p easy to replicate
willow fossil
Dunno tbh 🤣, not my expertise
hollow socket
is there a way to know which weapons I still havent killed a boss?
or just guess work , cause I honestly dont remember which weapon im missing for killing hydra
im thinking the gatling gun(forgot the name)
spare scaffold
If you unlocked the Pact it's easiest to check with it
Pact shows all bounties available or already taken on each Heat level
Before that.. huh, good question
dry quiver
Before that, listen to Skelly and write it down
hollow socket
the pact? how do I unlock that?
calm sandal
Is it generally regarded as better to use Coin Purse +% increase gold or use a scaling keepsake such as feather or butterfly?
willow fossil
Is up to you
spare scaffold
I haven't really run with butterfly seeing that I suck at not taking chip damage
willow fossil
People use coin purse without golden touch
So is really up to however you feel like it
calm sandal
Thats cool, im just trying to make sure im not missing out on a strat that is super consistent or something like that for runs where I just want to do as best as possible
Are olympian keepsakes O.K to use for fishing for specific boons, or should I just use a different keepaske for their actual effecT?
willow fossil
Unless you're speedrunning or doing some extremely high heat, a lot of strats are viable
Wait what
Are you talking about actual fishing?
calm sandal
So should I ignore them completely, or is there a different strategy people use them for?
willow fossil
All the keepsake does is guarantee you get a demeter boon
mossy light
i use boons to make the right gods spawn in
willow fossil
And make future boons have better rarity
mossy light
i mean, keepsakes*
willow fossil
Using demeter keepsake won't help you get her strike in specific
It will just make the next bion be from demeter
calm sandal
Well yeah, but if I am looking for her strike specifically is it still worth using or should I go with a more general boon
willow fossil
Is she guaranteed in your pool?
calm sandal
I haven't started a new run yet
sour prairie
just had an amazing run with demetres cast
calm sandal
Should I wait to use keepsakes until I have my 4 sized pool?
sour prairie
they kinda made boss fights really trivial
mossy light
casts are amazing. they scale weird though. part of why theyre amazing
willow fossil
Both are amazinf
haughty robin
Does having all your casts loaded count for ravenous will?
In the aspects that load your casts of course
haughty robin
Cool that's what I thought, ty
calm sandal
Its kind of weird that lasting consequences stays at 1 heat per level the entire time, despite the fact that the effect is expnential the more points you put into it
calm sandal
Well I mainly use Guan Yu spear so it IS free heat, but still its interesting to me
calm sandal
I love it, I like slow, high damage positioning based weapons like that and it also helps make up for my inability to dodge chip damage in basic encounters
solid cairn
Guan yu is actually getting buffed
calm sandal
Really? Nice, I actually thought it was at risk of being nerfed
willow fossil
Unless they make it heal on attack, I have zero interest on playing that thing
solid cairn
Eazee you can now dash between attacks like Arthur
willow fossil
^
calm sandal
Oh thats actually really helpful, since my main gripe was when you almost got it to full charge then had to let it go early to dash
solid cairn
For GY would want to use the special
calm sandal
Isn't that what Zag aspect is meant to be?
dry ember
Technically every weapon is a bow
willow fossil
Lmfao
But gy is the only viable choice afaik
If you try to go melee, you will die, since the spin is horrible for healing, unlike cursed slash
calm sandal
Is the special really enough better to make it worth halving your hp?
solid cairn
If you try to go melee, you will die, since the spin is horrible for healing, unlike cursed slash
@willow fossil serrated point is really good tho
spare scaffold
Really, I tried focusing on spins for Guan Yu and it slaps
Ran something like Dio attack/Ares spec/Dio aid towards Dio/Ares duo
spare scaffold
Quick spin/massive spin hammers
spare scaffold
It's like a blade rift on steroids
Even the spin on its own can delete projectiles so two spin hammers just quick spin = lmao what witches' circle
dry quiver
Guan Yu is just much more dependent on the right boons than others
calm sandal
Tbf two hammers that both buff the same move will make any aspect insnae
solid cairn
Guan Yu is just much more dependent on the right boons than others
@dry quiver not really
spare scaffold
..that said I lost to dad because he can take one DD per swing
My Guan Yu is still lvl 1.. the penalty do hurts
Yeah you are right but you can go for Serrated Point too
And I guess Quick Spin makes your life so much easier
willow fossil
Really, I tried focusing on spins for Guan Yu and it slaps
But then you rely on getting special hammers, and thats not 100% guaranteed to happen
spare scaffold
That's true
willow fossil
..that said I lost to dad because he can take one DD per swing
And this is why gy is bad
spare scaffold
I got lucky that run if anything
willow fossil
Cause you cant really go melee
solid cairn
You can though?
calm sandal
Ì mean I have found decent success without hammers on GY, if you position right and have the right boons it does so much damage
solid cairn
Athena dash op
willow fossil
Cursed slash is good and fun, because you can heal with every attack, but having to charge a spin and then have the spin land to heal
Isnt reliable
calm sandal
You need either boons or hammers, not both, and chances are you can get one decent boon or hammer in a run
spare scaffold
You can still spin without quick spin, I learned the non-FO, no Quick Spin timing fairly okay by now for when I should charge up my spins
willow fossil
But the spin is extremely small and will only tick like twice healing for 4
spare scaffold
You do have room, it's rather tight - easier if you use Hades than GY tbh
dry ember
Spin would be much better if it's uninterruptable. But since we have hammer specifically for that, it's a pipe dream.
dry ember
yeah, I edited in just that haha
solid cairn
They could just remove it
mossy light
multishot hammers affect the base attack?
solid cairn
Only one shot is empowered
mossy light
rather, they can shotgun?
solid cairn
I think at one point all the shots were empowered
mossy light
thats a lark
calm sandal
Whats the best keepsake for tankiness?
spare scaffold
Seems like it's a tossup between Spiked Collar, Acorn, Broken Spearpoint and even Myridon Bracelet (sp?) I guess
spare scaffold
I haven't used collar ever since my first runs
willow fossil
Whats the best keepsake for tankiness?
Bracelet
spare scaffold
Acorn for bossing, Spearpoint for Elysium/Styx (mainly soul catchers for the former), collar works everywhere but 50 hp is like what between 1 - 2 hits
willow fossil
Fat 30%
spare scaffold
Yeah I've been trying to level my less used keepsakes
Pom Blossom way too good though
Convince me to not use it over everything else pls
willow fossil
Yeh, I usually run, purse in tartarus, then switch to pom for asphodel and elysium, then spearpoint in styx
spare scaffold
I can keep it on for like 3 regions, only switching to acorn for styx
solid cairn
I use 2 god keepsakes
spare scaffold
Don't really need coin purse usually
willow fossil
150 obols too good pass
spare scaffold
And god keepsakes I usually wait if there's a god I want in the pool
spare scaffold
I guess early coin purse + golden touch talent can snowball
solid cairn
Some builds benefit from poms a lot more than others
calm sandal
I use it in Tartarus because I also run the one where you get interest at the end of each floor, so I want to get the money staking up
willow fossil
^
spare scaffold
Even if you get Hermes + boon at Tartarus shop you still have decent spare change
willow fossil
Golden touch
spare scaffold
I suppose
willow fossil
Youre not wrong but 150 for free is too good to pass
Imo
Specially with golden touch
spare scaffold
I actually have been conflicted about what to run for Tartarus so I have been picking least used keepsakes to level them up then swap to pom blossom
solid cairn
Cast builds like poms
willow fossil
Purse is always a solid choice
solid cairn
Artemis builds don’t really care
solid cairn
Honestly I feel like not going for god keepsakes in Tartarus is a bit of a waste
willow fossil
I hate messing with rng
spare scaffold
Pom in Tartarus then switching in Asphodel/Elysium seems like a bit of a waste so I have learned to either keep it on or don't haha
willow fossil
I use approval process and no God keepsakes
spare scaffold
I go with the flow
solid cairn
Well I understand why you don’t like Gy lol
spare scaffold
Unless it's certain weapons like rail
willow fossil
Lolol
solid cairn
Maybe I’ll try a no god keepsake run sometimes I dunno
spare scaffold
I made Aphro attack/Demeter spec/Zeus dash Lucifer work but it's.. iffy
solid cairn
I love messing with rng
solid cairn
I need to practice rama
spare scaffold
Oh yeah I discovered something you guys probably already know
dry ember
Sub 10 heat so anything works at that point
In fact, you probably don't need anything to make it through
spare scaffold
Piercing Wave on Arthur doesn't replace the normal attacks
solid cairn
Oh yeah I discovered something you guys probably already know
I hear this every day
spare scaffold
You just get the waves on top of your basic attacks
solid cairn
When did they change shattered shackle
spare scaffold
I remember when Shackle was useless
dry ember
Blood Price I think
solid cairn
it still kind of is
solid cairn
But at least now it had a kind of niche use
spare scaffold
High heat runs notwithstanding I think it's a fine Tartarus keepsake now
solid cairn
Was it only rubble the damage increased
dry ember
guys it was + 300% rubble damage, ok, THREE HUNDRO PERCENT
willow fossil
I love rng, so if I have to shape something a specific same way every time, thats a no from me
Thats no fun imo
solid cairn
Oh cuz I saw someone with 100k damage to a rat in Styx by stacking the well item
willow fossil
Specially in a roguelike
spare scaffold
solid cairn
I use god keepsakes and runs change a lot
willow fossil
The games fun enough for me, I just dont use gy
mossy light
am i the only one that thinks the "hard" room encounters in the styx are easier than the normal ones?
willow fossil
Only aspect i dont use
solid cairn
Fair enough, you’re missing out tho
willow fossil
No lol
solid cairn
Yes you are
dry ember
am i the only one that thinks the "hard" room encounters in the styx are easier than the normal ones?
No, I always choose those first
willow fossil
Approval process, and no God keepsakes keep everything fresh and fun
mossy light
aside from the little vermin, i do better against the minibosses
dry ember
They are faster with companion
solid cairn
Enemies take forever
dry ember
And higher reward. If you get 2 sack, you get double reward for nothing also.
solid cairn
2 sack dream
spare scaffold
Certain builds can melt minibosses in record time and you end up taking less time than normal final Styx chambers
willow fossil
Thats why you leave the boss room for 2nd tunnel and forward
dry ember
TLDR: 90% of the time you can't go wrong with Miniboss encounter in Styx
willow fossil
Never go boss first
spare scaffold
Unless it's tiny vermin
mossy light
well, the jar is easy, the megasatyr is decently easy, and the snake stone is fairly easy
spare scaffold
🐀
solid cairn
“Nobody deserves more than 2 sacks” -Me, I think
dry ember
Never go boss first
What is this non-2sack mentality?
opal lodge
you always go boss first for 2 sack time
solid cairn
Double sacc
opal lodge
if you're sort on time it's always better to go boss
spare scaffold
I don't run TD so 2 sack doesn't matter
solid cairn
I need a sack emote
willow fossil
You cant get a sack on the first room, so if you leave a boss for 2nd and forward theres a chance you can get it for free
spare scaffold
Will run TD some day
solid cairn
I’ll get one
opal lodge
yeah but the bosses are just so much faster
spare scaffold
💰
dry ember
You cant get a sack on the first room, so if you leave a boss for 2nd and forward theres a chance you can get it for free
Technically, you already paid the price by not going Miniboss first
opal lodge
if you're doing high heat you go for athena second and hope for the extra dd in second room
solid cairn
That’s what separates the greatest from the worst
Hoping for something that literally can’t happen
dry ember
No one here is pro enough to trigger one sack
smh my head
Hoping for something that literally can’t happen
You don't need proof, just the belief that it can happen.
solid cairn
Yeah EllomenoP isn’t pro enough that’s why he hasn’t found it in the code
solid cairn
Dionysus is memeing
dry ember
^
solid cairn
He’s a negative nicholas
solid cairn
Male negative Nancy
willow fossil
New players are gonna come here and complain they never got it in the first lmao
opal lodge
they have a containment channel
solid cairn
Sack
solid cairn
There is no channel, get in sack hell
willow fossil
There is no escape from the sack
half crater
hypothesis: ambiguity bonus is a chance of getting a 1 sack
dry ember
you might be up to something here
mossy light
hmm... a battie plush?
solid cairn
I was thinking 
or
willow fossil
I want a shady plush
hearty elbow
Bouldy couch pillow pls
dry ember
just, like, pick a big rock on the street
mossy light
dionysus dakimakura? 
calm sandal
Wow Dionyses call + Aphrodite/Dio dio boon
Oneshot the second phase of the final boss
icy parrot
Quick question, does the artemis dash boost stack with regular attack boons? Like deadly strike + hunter's dash will add both %s to the damage, right?
calm sandal
Yes
calm sandal
Just note that some abilities don't count as dash strikes and won't get the bonus from hunters dash, such as excaliber 2/3 swing and hestia rail
hearty elbow
You could write a dissertation on what is and is not a dash strike depending on weapon, aspect, hammer, or boon.
solid hazel
wait hestia rail doesn't count as a dash strike? I was pretty sure it did...
latent sky
Speaking of the exagryph, which aspect do you guys think is the best?
weary ridge
Eris for me
stark ore
Eris is the best, really only starts to shine at Lvl. 4 or 5 but once it gets to that point it's insane
solid hazel
yeah eris no question
hearty elbow
It's not particularly close, either. Hestia is very good but still a distant second. Having weaknesses to DC and JS is a pain, though its bossing is second to none.
dry ember
Hestia is fun but DC really ruins your day yeah.
spare flare
@krysakbr#4578 If you have not unlocked the Pact of Punishment, you have not completed the game with any weap. A) That means that this is the wrong channel for you, as it has spoilers, and B) it shouldn't matter anyway, because your decision of which Infernal Arm to use next should be a simple matter of following the Dark(er) Thirst.
spiral tree
I struggle with EM4 because the green things hades spawns are considered traps and I take 400% damage from them
so touching 1 can be death
they take 150 health just touching one
=/
spare flare
Wow, those are traps? Yike.
spiral tree
I have the heat on that makes traps deal 400% damage
spiral tree
is that sarcasm?
lol
but yeah I died so many times to EM4
I have 20 clears out of 100 attempts lol
spare scaffold
I avoid HS like the plague now
hearty elbow
is that sarcasm?
@spiral tree Yes
spare scaffold
Until I reach the heat level that'd need me to turn it on
spiral tree
the whole game to me is relatively easy
I am on heat 16 and I consider this game very easy but EM4 hades is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO HARD
weary ridge
Yeah I feel like HS should really be two heat instead of one
spare flare
You mean **+**400%, by the way. 500% total.
hearty elbow
What other pacts do you have affecting EM4?
spiral tree
I don't think I ever encountered such a difficulty spike in my 32 years of living
ummm let me see
hearty elbow
I'd avoid FO2 in particular
spiral tree
lasting consequences, EM4, middle management, heightend security, damage control @hearty elbow
and now doing heat 16
gotta add another sigh
hollow folio
Do td
spiral tree
Am I the only one who thinks heightend security should be worth more than 1 heat?
hearty elbow
DC. What aspect?
spiral tree
1
damage control is easy
just hit each enemy one extra time
lol
ok I'll do DC2
hearty elbow
It still matters. What aspect?
spiral tree
oh
arthur
tight deadline I am not touching cuz arthur is slow
and I take my time
hearty elbow
Oh holy cow. Yeah don't do that lol. It's got like the slowest attack speed in the game.
spiral tree
I am getting like 24 minutes clear time on average
spiral tree
lol dad
hollow folio
Td 1 is like 36 min
spare scaffold
You can go pretty fast with Arthur actually
TD1 is lax enough for Arthur
I can't say the same for TD2
hollow folio
Td2 is like 28, also doable according to your average
hearty elbow
? I'm not contesting TD on Arthur, that's fine, I'm talking about damage control
hollow folio
You're not but the op is
spare scaffold
I'm a generally slow player
hearty elbow
Even not considering time, if you're doing EM4 you need to kill skull immediately.
spiral tree
yup
I learned that the hard way
dashing over skull green waves is not fun
IF I do get smoldering air+zeus aid+second wind tho
EM4 is a joke
tawny mica
I have a question about the adamant rail
Now mine’s currently got cluster bomb on it
And one of my choices is targeting system
do they effect each other....?
Cluster Bomb: Your special fires a spread of 5 bombs but each deals -30% damage
hearty elbow
You don't get multiple stacks of the targetting system debuff, no
But they all apply it, yes
tawny mica
Targeting System: Foes targeted by your special move slower and +30% damage
So it cancels it out?
interesting..
My choices are that, piercing fire or seeking fire
any one out of the 3 that’s better?
I might go with seeking fire for my shots
hearty elbow
I am not certain if Cluster Bomb applies subtractive 30% versus multiplicative 0.7
tawny mica
Hm.. right cause I was planning on using all the hidden aspects..
But I’m really not feeling Lucifer or Gilgamesh
hearty elbow
Yeah I would consider them bottom tier personally
tawny mica
I might also change up Beowulf I’m not sure
hearty elbow
There isn't much else there. Zag Sword, Zag Spear maybe
tawny mica
Well I maxed out Arthur and Guan Yu
Working on the bow..
I think I might go for Demeter and Hestia tbh
hearty elbow
They're both good. Game is pretty balanced, you can honestly do whatever you want.
tawny mica
Hm, I guess but I kinda wish Lucifer being a F*** U laser would have had a stronger beam
hearty elbow
For the task of "tiering" you kind of need to be referring to very high heat, because up until that point it just doesn't matter.
tawny mica
I guess, still I’m not happy with the hellfire spheres tbh
hearty elbow
Are you on controller + auto aim?
tawny mica
I’m on controller I don’t know if auto aim is on
hearty elbow
It is by default
tawny mica
Ok it is on
hearty elbow
That explains it. I have the same setup, Hellfire bombs are terrible to use.
tawny mica
is it worth switching it off? For it?
kind egret
no lol
tawny mica
I feel like they need to be reworked imo
having maim on dash-special is also kind of a pain for Gil
hearty elbow
It's been requested
hearty elbow
Not the maim thing, dash upper isn't that bad, they buffed the buffering system so you can do the dash-strike + dash-upper trick that works on the other Malphon aspects.
hearty elbow
On all Malphon aspects, you can buffer in 1 dash: dash-strike + special
kind egret
that's sick
hearty elbow
Which will do a Dash Strike + Dash Upper in one dash
solid cairn
Rama is god tier
tawny mica
Hrm I should keep that in mind then
solid cairn
jovial harness
hey what does 2 sack mean
jovial harness
oh so you just move on after that?
kind egret
if you want, yeah!
jovial harness
sounded like people considered it a really desireable thing
hollow folio
It is, because you save time/hp
jovial harness
its like, if im comfortable with my build, i might as well use my cool build to get the other rewards at little risk
jovial harness
if im struggling, im hoping to buy DD from a well or get it from a boon
tawny mica
The sack is in 1 spot everytime??
hearty elbow
No