I use Demeter or Artemis boons on the Fists. I also get a good dash and just run around like crazy hitting baddies. I use both the normal attach and the special.
#h1-builds-and-combat
steep dragon
finite socket
Chiron Bow + Dio Special is just doing great rn and i love it
steep dragon
I did not, just god boons
finite socket
Although now i have a question
steep dragon
Beat it on 2 heat for the first time I went with one of those builds I believe.
finite socket
Which keepsake to use once you already have the boons you need?
steep dragon
I usually use the Acorn or the one that gives you an extra life (Skelly's?). I'd switch to the later just before the Temple of Styx.
Depending on your fighting style some of the other keepsakes would work better, but that's what I used at the time.
I should note that I was using Skelly's ||stuffed token|| thing to distract Hades during the boss fight.
full nova
@finite socket what are you mixing with dio special?
tawdry sleet
Is Zeus attack always the best boon on Eris? Trying to think what would compete with it
rare kayak
apparently doom works with it so maybe a me build
?????
since youre usually up close for the special so the dash can work
or doom special deflect attack
kindred schooner
Is Zeus attack always the best boon on Eris? Trying to think what would compete with it
@tawdry sleet I think its by far the most consistent but going Poseidon and trying to get the poseidon/zeus duo boon is pretty hilarious, and going Dionysus attack is pretty good for single target damage
tawdry sleet
Nice points thanks 😄
Another Eris question... for hammer upgrade, I like Delta Chamber since there's no reload
But is cluster bomb more beneficial for the easier self buffing? 
gilded nymph
what are the go to rama hammers?
mellow drift
For me its the one where you insta shoot but no powershot
Its takes 5years to charge that thing anyway
unkempt pagoda
twin shot
point blank, chain, relentless, perfect, and triple are also fun on it
sniper is lol, repulse is lol, you can't get flurry on rama, and explosive is high damage but makes a slow.... charge... time... even... slower...
mellow drift
Wait you cant get flurry on rama? Huh
I m ust be misremembering. I got my bows mixed up lol
Does rama special proc on all damage sources or just attack?
stark ore
All damage sources I believe
That's why Doom/Hangover is prob your best bet for special, though I've yet to try lightning
gilded nymph
I like hangover for artemis dio duo
mellow drift
Ive had doom special before. Its like having bad influence but doom flavored
kindred trout
Is there an explanation anywhere about how the god gauge charges up and how boons modify it? Smoldering Air, Quick Favor, and Hunter Instinct increase god gaude by +1% or less; I assume this means that's the percentage of the full gauge that they fill up. On the other hand, Clouded Judgment and Boiling Point increase the amount you earn for dealing and/or taking damage by 10% or more, so I assume this is a relative increase. But I can't tell how what % you gain for hitting or getting hit, if it depends on the damage or even on the specific move, so I can't tell which of these boons are preferable.
unkempt bough
Quick question for anyone who knows, do Blizzard Shot and Curse of Drowning work together or does having one mean you can't get the other?
turbid needle
Mutually exclusive.
unkempt bough
Thanks
kindred trout
you'd have a bigger circle of ice outside the circle of water around you
unkempt bough
I thought maybe the pulses from curse would shoot out the ice shards or something, I never do Ares/Poseidon so I don't really know how the duo works with the other cast augmenting boons
unkempt pagoda
unless you’re trippy shot, being a cast means that all of your duo morphs are mutually exclusive
can’t be freezing hunting blades, for example
grim dune
is flying cutter banned from most of the fist weapons?
untold iris
mirage shot does stack with other cast duos though
grim dune
I'm nearly done with all the prophecies but I still haven't seen it ever, and I'm wondering if it's because I use demeter and talos which have special specials
unkempt pagoda
mirage shot isn’t a cast morph specific to a particular cast though
it’s just a straight buff to your ability to cast
unkempt pagoda
flying cutter works on all but fists4
grim dune
weird rng then
solid cairn
Broken, broken times
grim dune
mm that'd be fun to have mirage shot as a normal boon
unkempt pagoda
play the build before the blood price update
solid cairn
It used to be dual shot, a tier 1 Artemis boon
It was a prerequisite for fully loaded
unkempt pagoda
(or maybe before nighty night? can’t remember)
solid cairn
Quick reload also used to belong to Artemis
kindred trout
I don't think flying cutter (the jump kick?) is available on Talos.
untold iris
I thought flying cutter was the charge special
kindred trout
or flying cutter the charge-up?
solid cairn
That’s why fully loaded only requires 1 cast aspect now
stark ore
Flying Cutter is the charge, Rush Kick is the kick (obv), and Kinetic Launcher is the projectile
gaunt ivy
can’t be freezing hunting blades, for example
didn't know this and kept trying to get hunting blades just last run :(
stable egret
So like
gaunt ivy
try to get boons! those can often be helpful!
stable egret
Lol
hearty elbow
@hearty elbow so what can repulse shot be paired with to make the best use of it?
@still vigil Lol, late to the party, but nothing, really. It's kind of just bad.
craggy rose
hey guys what are suggested builds for fists? im currently using aspect of talos !
gaunt ivy
i really like using frost strike, gives a solid damage increase, and frost is helpful on fast weapons like fists
cunning ibex
how does rocket bomb sync up with Eris?
craggy rose
true true - frost is always a good help ty
gaunt ivy
np
drifting vale
Rocket bomb still explodes in an area so id imagine youd need to point blank the enemy to get the buff @cunning ibex
stable egret
Close enough to be in the blast
Or u can just dash into it
I actually prefer rocket
drifting vale
Cant beat triple in my book
untold iris
you can get the eris buff as long as you're inside the rocket's explosion
worst case scenario you can just stand next to a wall and shoot the wall
or shoot an enemy point blank
dry ember
or shoot an enemy point blank
wait, are there other ways to play other than this?
stable egret
You're not suppose to walk into the magma?
untold iris
contrary to popular belief, walking into magma is actually a pro gamer move
since it lets you heal with stubborn defiance before the next room :^)
untold iris
yes
hallow plank
Does the Arthur aspect have a dash attack, is it just dashing then attacking counts as a dash attack?
dry ember
yes, it looks like a thrust
hallow plank
Oh, ok
dry ember
but there if you dash + attack and it comes out as a swing
that's a normal combo attack
if that makes sense
hallow plank
Oh, I see
dry ember
so only the thrust gets benefits from hunter dash or double edge
the wide swings don't
hallow plank
So I imagine I would want something different than hunter's dash?
dry ember
yeah, it's not that good on arthur
hallow plank
Alrighty then, thanks
spare scaffold
how does Thunder Strike works on Lucifer
I haven't tried Zeus boons on it so that's why I'm asking
hallow plank
Oh it's great
spare scaffold
well, outside of using a supercharged Thunder Dash to detonate the hellfire bombs
hallow plank
Every tick of damage sends out chain lightning
spare scaffold
hallow plank
Yeah, pretty nuts
spare scaffold
Is there any sort of god that can ever be as good as Zeus on all rail aspects at this point
Maybe except for Hestia, I guess I'm running Ares or Aphro attack on that one idk
hallow plank
Dionysus is pretty good, getting constant stacks of hangover
spare scaffold
Does Lucifer get Rocket Bomb
My first and only run with it at the end had Triple Beam/Triple Bomb and it's a murder machine
Especially when I realised I didn't need to actually shoot at my hellfires to detonate it
hallow plank
Don't know about that one
surreal dune
so I finally got offered bad news but I was vibing with my hidden aspect spear special build...
so I chose greatest reflex and finished the run
instead of choosing bad news
spare scaffold
I'd have taken it either way to fulfill the prophecy
surreal dune
😆
surreal dune
I have Athena dash, I think it constitutes self harm if I don't choose greatest reflex
the only 2 legendaries left for me is bad news and winter harvest
spare scaffold
Hang on is that the +movespd, Sturdy after dash or +dash charges
spare scaffold
funny as hell I had Black Out, Bad News/Greater Recall left and I tried multiple runs for Black Out to no avail
And then I did a normal run without Dio focus and it just popped up in Styx shop
I swear Hades has a desire sensor
surreal dune
black out is easy bc see dio = pick dio
spare scaffold
Yeah that's what I did for nearly a dozen runs
no go
you'd think it's easy since it's like what, Trippy Shot + any other primary Dio boon but sorry Hades said no
jovial harness
um what https://i.imgur.com/83xUbxT.jpg
it felt like this was not supposed to uh, work the way it did
spare scaffold
as long as it works
jovial harness
i made big fields of hurricanes, hades walked into them and he just kind of died
like super fast
dry quiver
My white whale for the prophecies is chaos’ assault. Over 120 runs not seen even once. Even with last 20-30 runs ALWAYS visiting chaos and fating the choices
On the plus side been getting lots of extra cast runs
mighty ermine
are you sure you have fiery presence as your first mirror talent?
you need that for assault to show up through chaos
conversely, ambush only shows up with shadow presence
dry quiver
One of my faves was 6 Demeter cast hera bow. Absolutely melted
If that’s the case that would explain it
mighty ermine
yeah, with the frequency you say you visit chaos, with all those runs, i had a feeling
shouldn't be too hard to find after flipping to fiery
dry quiver
I just played. Figured eventually. Didn’t care to research because. I still have fun just playing
placid topaz
thats also been my missing chaos boon - thanks @mighty ermine
here's hoping i'll pick it up next run (i'll switch over to fiery)
stark ore
I wanna just finish things up and get fiery but muh shadow presence
willow fossil
is aphrodite attack not giving bonus damage a known bug?
half crater
satyrs do have a surprising amount of health
sure you didn’t just turn on CP2 or something lol
i’ve done that before
“why is this fight taking so long? oh yes, that’s right, i inflicted this upon myself”
half crater
fair
willow fossil
does spread fire have zero effect on hestia shot?
half crater
yeah sadly
willow fossil
good job approval process
half crater
oof
haughty robin
Is it intentional that some boons don't count toward family favorites? Premium vintage being one I can think of.
mighty ermine
we kind of just don't know, unfortunately. most of the ones that don't count are unsellable through purging pools (premium vintage, rare crop) but sunken treasure is one that does count, and can't be purged
it's just not consistent
willow fossil
wdym?
so was premiun vintage the only dio boon you had?
and it didnt count towards family favorite?
willow fossil
are you sure?
half crater
i mean, if Tailesque agrees it’s a thing it’s prolly legit
willow fossil
id have to pay attention
haughty robin
Try it yourself.
willow fossil
so what boons you think dont work?
haughty robin
It was noteworthy because I was running a chonky weapon. Not many dio boons would be helpful but since he showed I wanted vintage or drink. This can be reproduced consistently.
All of the things tailesque listed have happened to me, actually.
rare kayak
why do some boons not count towards it in the first place
kinda dumb
ok kinda weird not dumb
fathom sable
Im prolly asking a silly question, but what is the meta ? Like, which weapon could be considered the best ? And boon ? I also suppose this has been asked before and the answer aint simple lol
spare scaffold
I have heard speedrunner meta being Eris rail
fathom sable
Ye thought the rail is gonna be top tier
Honestly almost all weps seem like a fair game
Except the shield, but prolly cus i dont like it that much
marsh patrol
I think the fists are pretty strong, first time i tried it i actually ended up beating the game after like 30ish runs with other weapons
willow fossil
They have done an amazing job balacing the weapons
I enjoy all weapons and think they all are pretty strong
except gy
god i hate that thing
just not fun to play imo
craggy rose
youre so valid im glad they gave so many options to suit so many players honestly
vapid bolt
ive had really good experience with spear mashing A+X over and over until things die, its harsh on the fingers though
craggy rose
my least favourite is rail honestly but thats just because it doesnt suit my playstyle
willow fossil
ah lmao
marsh patrol
yeah i can see kb/m being a pain for some weapons lmao
fathom sable
except gy
@willow fossil what's gy
spark meteor
oh it could be a spoiler hm
marsh patrol
when i was doing fists i had a special+dash crit build constantly im over here spamming triangle + o every second
craggy rose
keyboard is worse on the fingers yeah
willow fossil
guan yu
fathom sable
ooh ye ye
craggy rose
JKSDJKFJKDSJKF thats me w fists
vapid bolt
this channel says spoilers allowed
spark meteor
same i love blindly dashing w fists
fathom sable
ye ye i have it
willow fossil
i just say gy cause is shorter
craggy rose
fists are so fun though i love them
vapid bolt
i havent had much success with guan yu so far, but its also only lvl 2, i guess lvl 5 is probably more bearable
willow fossil
i just not fun to play
craggy rose
theyre super quick too
willow fossil
i have it on lvl 5 and cant stand, only aspect i dont use
vapid bolt
whats the strat with guan yu anyway? do you just pray you get a spin attack daedalus upgrade?
craggy rose
yeah thats it
spark meteor
ya basically HAHAHAA
whats the strat with guan yu anyway? do you just pray you get a spin attack daedalus upgrade?
@vapid bolt
craggy rose
the spin attack daedalus upgrade makes my heart sing
i love it so much when im using spear
vapid bolt
isnt the heal only on spin? maybe i didnt read it properly
spark meteor
heal is on spin only correct
willow fossil
you dontneed to heal when you kill everything with q
also you dont have much room to take dmg
vapid bolt
well, yeah, but then why play guan yu
craggy rose
that is correct
willow fossil
spinning isnt a viable strat lol
you will take more dmg while spinning
and you dont have much hp
vapid bolt
hm
craggy rose
yeah you have to be careful when spinning
spark meteor
kinda agree tho spear's spin so clunky
craggy rose
since youre open
willow fossil
is just bad
craggy rose
its great if u cant get hit but the minute u do ur health is gone
willow fossil
heres how it goes: youre q'ing around, you take one hit, you proceed to spin to heal, while youre charging, you get hit 3 more times, use one dd, repeat
craggy rose
the endless cycle
willow fossil
until you die
vapid bolt
also, completely unrelated but is divine dash (or deflect in general) a really op mechanic or am i just bad? any run i play where i dont get some form of deflect just feels so much worse. im able to clear the game without it but some rooms are so dang frustrating
willow fossil
youre better off q'ing more, not even worth healing
nothing wrong with being defensive
spark meteor
i love divine dash
craggy rose
it depends - i prefer phalanx shot to divine dash
willow fossil
is all up to your playstyle
craggy rose
though with a hermes boon like the one where u can dash multiple times in a row its sexy
im having a blank on which boon that is though like the name of it
willow fossil
greatest reflex?
dry quiver
I always try for deflect dash or extra dashes
craggy rose
yeah greatest reflex i think it is
willow fossil
the extra dashes from hermes is greatest reflex
craggy rose
i adore phalanx shot though or holy shield isnt too bad either
willow fossil
i suck lol
vapid bolt
i just feel like any kinda build on the slower side thats not constantly spamming attacks just get destroyed by damage flinch if you dont have deflect lol. almost any time i try to make a build around casts or a slow special like the sword's or the fists' i legit lose so much life to any spammy room (cough, witches circle in asphodel)
willow fossil
cant clear without taking dmg
vapid bolt
yea
or you know a fast attack that can reliably destroy the bullets
but if have neither of those im just screwed
craggy rose
god witches circle i hate it
it's always a 50/50 on whether i get out without a death defy or no
dry quiver
It feels like 9/10 of my witches circles show up in my first Athena room for the run. It’s like oh you want deflect, good luck
vapid bolt
lol oddly i seem to not get athena that much in asphodel. its either im lucky and get her in tartarus or she doesnt show up until elysium/styx
craggy rose
yikies thats not great
vapid bolt
the latter is the runs i usually dont finish
vapid bolt
same, sorta. mostly because i got tired of spamming the same type of build every time and now that ive finished the main story im trying out other stuff and 90% of it isnt viable without deflect
spark meteor
i mean u could always go shield n play slow af but not rlly everyone's cup of nectar
craggy rose
yeah you are so valid i jhavent finished main story yet though
willow fossil
i learned to adapt thanks to approval process
craggy rose
i used to play w shield but it was so slow 😭
spark meteor
ya shield is pretty slow but i dont rlly mind it
i love chaos shield once u max it lmao
vapid bolt
i actually enjoy zeus shield a lot
just throw out the spinner and sit in your block stance while stuff dies
dry quiver
I still play for the darkness boost so I’m always mixing it up. And every so often change aspects to keep things different
vapid bolt
thats the 10% thats viable without deflect that i mentioned :p
craggy rose
oh thjats a smart way to do it
vapid bolt
lol just started a run, athena as my first boon. ask and you shall receive
although no divine dash. ill take divine strike though, sure
spark meteor
is anyone else just in love w doom/deflect build
i always just go for it esp with gilga
turbid needle
DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM
spark meteor
esp u get athena's curse status + privileged mirror thing
turbid needle
I fricking love doom builds
spare scaffold
I had a weird Gilgamesh run with Ares spec/Demeter attack
No luck with any Ares duo nor Demeter legendary but maim damage mult + boosted doom damage from Impending Doom (or was it Dire Misfortune) was already really good
wet rivet
I love the doom/maim combo just mark one mob and move on to the next
turbid needle
Doom/Critical
spark meteor
i would love to doom/maim but i find it so hard to land the upper dash sometimes
i guess it's my fault for just spamming dash + attack
HAHAHAHAHA
wet rivet
Explosive upper 
turbid needle
Bazooka
spark meteor
oh picked it up once but like super early on just for the prophecy
will try it next time around
spare scaffold
Yep explosive upper on Gilgamesh is 
rare kayak
i believe gilg maim used to work with curse of longing
but they might have patched it out
the ares aphro duo
simple trail
maim dmg is very nice
limber flax
is demeter special good with artemis special?
turbid needle
Freeze + critical
spark meteor
ah demeter aspect w artemis special hmmm
limber flax
ye
turbid needle
Hmmmm
spark meteor
tbh i prefer a special that gives a status curse right away
like ares, aphro or dio
then attack with status curse as well
limber flax
its good w ares?
spark meteor
for the easy privileged mirror boost
turbid needle
Totally worth it
spark meteor
i prefer ares most yea
turbid needle
Nah
spark meteor
given that try to go for the boon that makes ur lightnin attacks give jolted
limber flax
yea that sure
spark meteor
oh wait does ur mirror have privileged status unlocked?
cuz this conversation is moot without it lol
limber flax
yes i have privileged
spark meteor
but yea ares > artemis i agree
turbid needle
ARES IS GOD
limber flax
on special yes?
spark meteor
ya thats good esp if u get zeus' jolted curse
limber flax
i do have zeus attack so conc knuckle not that good as it could be
spark meteor
since u rely on geetin those combos
limber flax
aight
ooof
not sure here if thats better
although
i think it is
dmg wise
nvm idk
spark meteor
thing is athena deflect wont be applying any statuses
but the damage is good
id prefer getting the cast tho
limber flax
damn thats a shame
turbid needle
Good choice
limber flax
but thx for the tips
spark meteor
tbh id roll for divine dash tho
limber flax
oh right
spark meteor
but idk how u use ur rolls so ya cast is ok
finite socket
Athena Dash is god tier
limber flax
how good is explosive upper?
untold vortex
incredible on demeter fists
drifting vale
Pretty good
Has a strong synergy with gilg
limber flax
playing demeter rn
drifting vale
Still pretty good on its own right
limber flax
ares on special tho
untold vortex
the 2nd best hammer then
drifting vale
% will do more
untold vortex
you'd want something aphro or arti on special for demeter imo
drifting vale
But at 6 heat youll be fine
limber flax
well i got jolted too and priviliged status
so thats something
yea i know it will be a win nontheless
drifting vale
Also personally id say breaching cross and then kinetic launcher on dem
limber flax
just want maximum OP run here lol
drifting vale
Fair
limber flax
i guess explosive is better then long knuckle rn
drifting vale
Long knuckle ain't bad
untold vortex
long knuckle is good
limber flax
ye
tranquil violet
Finally finished a Rama run
untold vortex
the small damage buff is nothing to sneeze at either
tranquil violet
Explosive + Triple + Aphro special is fun
drifting vale
Really do you want to stack special faster or more damage
tranquil violet
Especially with Artemis attack and plenty of mark and crit boost, and a ton of backstab and dash attack buffs
MELEE BOW
GO GO GO
untold vortex
more damage, especially with the giga blast things the aspect does
limber flax
does long knuckle buff zeus lightning on attack?
tranquil violet
What are some builds that actually make heavy use of shared suffering?
drifting vale
Oh
tranquil violet
Or is it like GY spin kind of incidental?
I didn't ever find it particularly useful for clearing enemies.
untold vortex
the icd is only on flourish btw Jester and single target
drifting vale
Ah
tranquil violet
It's mostly just useful as a damage buff.
drifting vale
I feel like you're just not using it to its full potential then
Shared suffering especially with relentless volley
drifting vale
It do damage
untold vortex
tailesque has a 55? heat rama bow run from memory
I know they've done 54 heat at least
drifting vale
Im not a big rama player so i'll leave that to others
tranquil violet
Sure but a 54 or 55 heat run isn't exactly relevant to my scrub low heat runs
The game is very different at that point
untold vortex
it's good to see how the weapon plays
drifting vale
I have a video of ledgerdamayn's 50 heat
tranquil violet
Eh, I think people overestimate the "if it's good at high heat it'll be amazing at low heat" thing
untold vortex
you can learn a lot from watching high heat runs
drifting vale
^
tranquil violet
Yeah sure but it's not nearly as useful as people make it out to be.
tranquil violet
People playing high heat also have much more experience with the game and are playing with much more focus on room clearing than boss burst DPS
Yeah it's not useless by any means
But it isn't the same play style or constraints as a low heat run at all
They also have maxed out fated persuasion 
drifting vale
The point of watching high heat runs isnt build path
For less experienced players you can watch things you can do better
1 point with fated is enough
Maxed is just convenience
tranquil violet
Laughs in zero points.
glass rapids
Maxed so that routine inspection takes it away
tranquil violet
True
drifting vale
Thats all right the game is still very doable without it
tranquil violet
I wish you could respec only some talents in the mirror
untold vortex
you still get rerolls from keys though
tranquil violet
But I'm afraid of the major keys
DJ Khaled will come to my house
And hurt my family
untold vortex
oh I responding to HollowHead
the house contractor upgrade gives you Fated rerolls from picking up keys as room rewards
tranquil violet
Amnesia: The Dark Descent
Amnesia: A Machine for Pigs
Amnesia: Suffering from Success
Why don't you people understand that DJ Khaled is real and he's coming for all of us?
None of us are safe.
And yeah I have that
Keys aren't remotely consistent enough to matter early on (when they're most useful) though
drifting vale
I feel like you're downplaying things way too much
tranquil violet
You're right, DJ Khaled is far more dangerous than I've made him out to be.
drifting vale
Well you have fun contemplating that
tranquil violet
It keeps me up every night.
Knowing that I'm only one echoing cry of "WE THE BEST" away from horrific butchery.
I lay awake every night, intently listening for <word that means bad, but emphatically> recycled beats.
Every moment lived in fear.
Anyhow seriously don't feel like I ever get more than 2 keys in any given run
Which isn't nothing but they're also often kinda late in the game.
spare scaffold
I usually get like 5 keys
Considering I hyper prioritise them for rerolls later..
Unless I get a gold laurel chamber ofc but keys usually spawn alongside other blue laurels anyway
drifting vale
I usually get a key every region
Also you can farm out darkness with lower heat and add on the chaos buff
spare scaffold
I only have 3 Authority and 1 Persuasion so far so yeah
cloud jungle
keys 
finite socket
Actually prioritizing keys once you unlocked everything in the Mirror
Rerolls eventually won't matter anyways because you will have so much Darkness everything will be maxed
somber mountain
is this where i can ask for some help with a boss or two?
finite socket
I guess, what boss exactly?
somber mountain
final boss
limber flax
seems better then privileged often
finite socket
Anyways, for Hades, his attacks are mostly telegraphed so normally you shouldn't have any problem dashing away
Watch for his skulls though, it's good to have something from Athena against him
Destroying skulls is also good to avoid them from exploding
limber flax
hades is indeed quite easy after a few tries
somber mountain
i did learn that. i also know that i have to beat him with every weapon. and i have only gotten past elysium with the twin fists and the shield
finite socket
Oh, now about that, it's mostly about Theseus/Asterius then
I gotta say they're harder than Hades
somber mountain
i agree! im basically fighting 2 bosses at once
somber mountain
i was so close to killing theseus but asterius just wittle me down so much that all theseus had to do was throw his spear and kill me. and the shield is annoying with the bow and probably the rail to
finite socket
Just make sure to focus down Asterius first
somber mountain
and this was after killing asterius first
finite socket
Theseus isn't much of a problem outside spear throwing above 50% HP
sharp anvil
What would be a good build on sword for a first run clear?
somber mountain
and summoning the gods. that does tend to be annoying
finite socket
Well once you see the circles just focus on dashing away
somber mountain
this game really is amazing. i got it like 4 days ago i think and spent hours on it already. its really amazing
finite socket
In a row but yeah
And about that i just bought the max darkness i could from Wretched Broker everytime it appeared in the shop
somber mountain
also do bounties reset at any time?
finite socket
No
You can only do them once per weapon
Until you reach Hades then they reset based on your Heat level
limber flax
also if you start winning its easy to just be on a streak for a long time
somber mountain
heat level?
limber flax
i have 20 clears total and i am on 16 streak now
finite socket
That is something you'll see after you manage to beat Hades
Also make sure to have something like Evergreen Acorn or Lucky Tooth against him
somber mountain
probably not gonna be for a while. but i am gonna make sure to at least beat the dynamic duo with each of the weapons. that way i have all the ambrosia and diamonds i will need
really? i woulda thought the spiked collar
hasty dune
Can someone explain to me why blade rift / ares' aid lasts for such a short amount of time?
finite socket
HP is always good but the fact that you completely block attacks helps immensely
Plus Lucky Tooth is an extra DD charge
I think it's mostly because they could do some insane DPS
somber mountain
fair enough. i'll give some focus to that and save my necter for the last few keepsakes i need from people
finite socket
You get them from Eurydice and Skelly btw
somber mountain
ok good. did those two. i do need the one from artemis, the guy in elysium and one other
i do like at the temple of styx I can purchase some titans blood and such from charon
oh also which of the revival affects are better?
bright flint
Definitely get the acorn for hades fight
he hits hard
and some situation i would say collar>skelly
if that's all you have
finite socket
I would say DD is better if you can manage your revives well
limber flax
i would always go tooth in styx if youre struggling
bright flint
if you still have all 3 of your DD then collar gives you bonus 125 health
lucky tooth gives you only 100 health revive
bright flint
yeah
finite socket
Oh right
limber flax
well yea thats a good point
bright flint
50% each revive so in total that's 125
near zealot
Are we talking about keepsakes to use from the start, or keepsakes to switch to for final boss?
lusty sequoia
Final boss
near zealot
Got it. In that case, I'm firmly in the Acorn group. If it blocks 5 swings from Hades, that's 200 effective health
Problem is it doesn't help in Styx
hearty elbow
Got it. In that case, I'm firmly in the Acorn group. If it blocks 5 swings from Hades, that's 200 effective health
@near zealot This scales with Hard Labor and his Boiling Blood as well.
You likely won't get all 5 charges on Hades himself, probably lose a couple on adds (or all of them on Soulcatchers if you're unlucky), but the average value of Acorn is extremely high.
near zealot
Acorn also just feels better for me. I had a bad habit early on of letting one hit snowball me into making a bunch of mistakes. Acorn helped keep my head clear early
solid cairn
so im kind of a bit getting used to rama
finite socket
How do i even use the Shield of Chaos correctly? I feel it's a bit underwhelming because even if i aim correctly the shields never really seem to do some decent AoE, am i doing something wrong?
solid cairn
gotta learn how to power shot without getting hit in the middle of it
finite socket
The Bull Rush part i'm fine with it, the problem is the throwing itself
spark meteor
@finite socket tbh when im using the chaos aspect i just bull rush a lot then blindly special out the 5 shields rinse n repeat
build needs somthing like dio on special tho
finite socket
Last run i used it i got Zeus, and that is my issue
The 5 shields don't always hit my target
Unless i'm like, point blank range
solid cairn
I also dont think im using shared suffering enough
spark meteor
i dont think depending on the special to hit one target istheway to go, it's mostly i guess for melting mobs
hearty elbow
gotta learn how to power shot without getting hit in the middle of it
@solid cairn Yeah, that's a large part of its learning curve.
Also re; Suffering, yes, that's 60% of your damage (multiplicative). More if you hit a crowd
spark meteor
but i really like chaos aspect but it's not eevryone's cup of tea
finite socket
Well yeah it's surely lacking in boss fights
solid cairn
so coat everything in suffering
spark meteor
kinda agree it isnt made for super high DPS it's rlly a slower defnesive playstyle
finite socket
I would rather go for something much more aggressive like Fists
hearty elbow
Yep. And find good places to Power Shot. When you get familiar enough with animations it's not so hard to find openings literally in an enemy's face. But double dashing to find a far away safe spot is fine too.
finite socket
Or maybe Rail
hearty elbow
You'll quickly notice that is definitely not an option with Twin Shot though.
spark meteor
same tho im rlly a malphon main cuz i love dashing around like a madman
hearty elbow
Which is its best hammer by far, but also makes the aspect a ton harder to play
gray shore
has anyone tried Twin shot in test branch?
spark meteor
but i do like usingshield sometimes when i just wanna slow down
solid cairn
oh yeah they buffed twin shot
solid cairn
well in test branch
finite socket
Pog
hearty elbow
Thank you all of you beautiful people for collectively buffing my favorite hammer on my favorite weapon 
solid cairn
serrated point is one of my favorite hammers
it makes achilles a melee weapon
and now it has less of a dash distance penalty
no more dashing into lava
well I will still dash into lava
finite socket
Same
fathom sable
idk where to ask this cus its in spoiler territory but how do i farm titan blood besides different levels of heat ?
spark meteor
sometimes u can find some from the broker (i think 15 keys on the special deal)
also prophecies can give decent chunks
cunning urchin
Can just trade up Chthonic Keys at the broker once you've unlocked the weapons and mirror.
They don't really do anything at that point.
fathom sable
hey,btw,which gods are unlocked after u beat the game once ?
is it still the same 4 - demeter,aphro,zeus and artemis ?
spare scaffold
All gods are unlocked from the beginning except for Demeter who you unlock after reaching the surface once
fathom sable
old wiki info then
icy parrot
I tried to do a somewhat meme-ish run of demeter fists + demeter, trying to get "disciple of demeter" tag in there. As it turns out, uh, it's really ot that good. Damage was way low. Anyone got any ideas on how I could run demeter boons with demeter fists in a competent build?
unkempt pagoda
you don't actually play fists and just do crystal clarity instead
cunning urchin
That works.
She's in that weird place where she does as little damage as Lady Athena but with way less utility.
Well.
icy parrot
I can't give up on the dream of the full set though, maybe I'll just try to do it at low heat
cunning urchin
I'd take Frost Strike over Frost Flourish.
spare scaffold
I guess her duos are pretty alright
cunning urchin
Maybe do Frost Strike + Deadly Flourish + Crystal Beam, and get Crystal Clarity, yeah.
icy parrot
yeah maybe crystal beam will help supplement the damage even outside of a cast aspect
cunning urchin
Won't really need to supplement damage if you have Deadly Flourish.
unkempt pagoda
CC + frost strike + crystal beam + glacial glare + any other dem boon should be enough for disciple of demeter
cunning urchin
But you might as well go for the Duo Boon if you have both goddesses in your build.
void fjord
make sure you level them up too
is there any way to see the tags you gotten or is it still "cool i dont think i have gotten that one yet"
icy parrot
No I was actually JUST thinking about that the other day because I'd love to have a list to know what I need to collect
I guess the best way is just to go to the record room and see them one by one
cunning urchin
@void fjord there is this feature called make your own list.
Inspired by Hypnos.
cunning urchin
Zzz.
icy parrot
I mean, the more you play the more of a hassle it is to go and check everything you've gotten you know
cunning urchin
Sorry, I was asleep. Did you say anything?
proven osprey
barren otter
Completed the codex, finally, the final required Mati was the 1027th fish.
inland meadow
does chaos +special/attack damage affect tipsy?
unkempt pagoda
what do you mean
if you mean hangover, it's a separate source of damage that is attached to the attack/special, not part of the attack/special itself
unkempt pagoda
so chaos +% boons would not affect hangover
inland meadow
damn ok
worn crypt
Going to post this here, just to potentially quell some misinformation about dodge mechanics. It is additive based on this test
https://m.twitch.tv/clip/KitschySpikyTomatoSpicyBoy
cunning urchin
@worn crypt what if you were just really lucky?
worn crypt
All my luck being concentrated here would explain why I can't get anything good in actual runs
still vigil
So if i only have snow burst on my cast, should i take killing freeze or ravenous will? Both are epic rarity
Also running fists as usual
cunning urchin
I don't know what else you have.
bright flint
Dodge chance definitely not additive, I once had a run with smoldering air, hermes' boon that gives you dodge chance everytime you call, greater evasion, and ruthless reflex
still got hit quite frequently
or maybe there's a limit to the percentage
still vigil
That’s the only form of chill i have. Currently running athena on dash/atk/curse with leg boon, poseidon on cast/special/curse @cunning urchin
worn crypt
I mean I just showed otherwise with an enormous number of hits that would be statistically impossible to all roll as dodges if it weren't additive
bright flint
hmmm i just watched the clip
or maybe after 1.0 they fix the dodge mechanic?
Dodge chance definitely not additive, I once had a run with smoldering air, hermes' boon that gives you dodge chance everytime you call, greater evasion, and ruthless reflex
cunning urchin
Ravenous Will, then.
bright flint
this run was pre 1.0
worn crypt
Possible 1.0 changes, I know lava can't be dodged but idk about other traps honestly. I could check
cunning urchin
Actually.
still vigil
Ty nyaa
cunning urchin
@still vigil is she offering any core boon?
still vigil
Nope
cunning urchin
No Call?
still vigil
No call
cunning urchin
Hmmm. You might wanna consider rerolling for Demeter's Aid to get a requirement for Blizzard Shot.
If you have rerolls.
But Ravenous Will is good.
still vigil
Used my last reroll on athena to get dash
cunning urchin
Well, that's worth it lol.
still vigil
Ok!
spare scaffold
Why do people take Antos over say Battie
If there's only one target would Antos attack that target twice
Or it's that it's surehit
cunning urchin
Antos can miss in rare circumstances.
proven osprey
Battie aim is like mine in CSGO
cunning urchin
Meg will hit perpendicular to the direction Zagreus faces.
If you look |, she'll hit —.
inland meadow
any tips on doing 32 heat?
spiral tree
@cunning urchin I been struggling with the arthur aph attack build you been suggesting even with the 10% extra chance of legendary/duo's and 4 rerolls on boons I can't consistently get all 3 smoldering air, zeus aid, and, second wind each run
inland meadow
like what heat I should go for or what weapons I should use
willow fossil
I been struggling with the arthur aph attack build you been suggesting even with the 10% extra chance of legendary/duo's and 4 rerolls on boons I can't consistently get all 3 smoldering air, zeus aid, and, second wind each run
Thats just rng mate
Welcome to roguelikes
cunning urchin
You only really need Heartbreak Strike.
If you're struggling, make Divine Dash a priority after that.
Otherwise, just any of Smoldering Air or Zeus' Aid will help a lot. Second Wind is just icing on the cake, it's not something you can consistently get, realistically.
untold iris
whats the arthur build
my small amount of arthur runs have mostly been artemis attack
since I like seeing big big numbers
but maybe thats not the best thing to do
hearty elbow
The Smoldering Air build works because you don't need Smoldering Air to finish. Heartbreak Strike + Divine Dash is a perfectly sufficient build.
untold iris
they've also mostly involved the bonus backstab damage hammer
hearty elbow
Just that if you happen to get the duo it's fantastic.
kindred trout
I feel like Artemis attack is so bad tbh. You don't apply a curse without a tier 2 boon so you're a long way from privileged status, and the critical-modifying tier 2's feel weaker than the tier 2s for Aph and Demeter.
cunning urchin
There are plenty of ways to increase your odds of getting specific Duo Boons.
hearty elbow
Lol, saying things are bad because they don't contribute to Privileged Status. Smh
cunning urchin
Including not spending money on healing so you have more money for boons.
And skipping Centaur Hearts for Obols to have more money for boons.
kindred trout
It's not just that, it's that the DPS of artemis strike is only slightly better than the other god boons and doesn't offer the utility to applying weakness or deflecting.
cunning urchin
Which is a player skill thing, too.
Frost Strike is not even close to Deadly Strike in DPS.
Not even close.
untold iris
iirc artemis is slightly below aphro in average dps in most cases
and higher than other gods
hearty elbow
At lower heats (32-) I prefer Artemis because it's fairly trivial to find another +% dmg source for the attack, which makes the crit a lot more worthwhile
cunning urchin
They're not even in the same conversation.
untold iris
yeah crit scales better with other +% damage sources than anything else
cunning urchin
Deadly Strike will be #1 in DPS for weapons like Excalibur in most runs with t2 crit boons, hammers, etc.
untold iris
as a baseline its slightly worse in dps than aphrodite iirc
hearty elbow
It is, yes. But only very slightly
untold iris
but aphrodite also has the highest damage % of all the gods
hearty elbow
At very high heat, you can't rely on anything happening, and everything sucks, so you take what you can get and you go with the consistent option that grants Weak.
cunning urchin
Heartbreak Strike will pull well ahead if you're not getting a lot of t2 and just putting poms on your Attack.
untold iris
also you should just take them both for heart rend :^)
kindred trout
the aphro tier 2 that deals additional damage to weak enemies is also super good
hearty elbow
Sweet Surrender is decently good. About a pom on Heartbreak Strike's worth of value if it's not common
cunning urchin
It's good, but it's no competition for Deadly Strike. You can get that from your Special, too.
And then get Heart Rend.
untold iris
I was running AP2 a few days ago and I somehow rnged into artemis attack + athena dash + athena call
which is probably the only reason why I beat the run lol
cunning urchin
Deadly Strike just has way higher DPS potential.
hearty elbow
Also re; Privileged Status, even if you're Aphro attack, I would never take it over Family Favorite. Your special is absolutely terrible at spreading status and you would need specifically Exposed to make it work.
untold iris
is this still about arthur?
hearty elbow
Yes
untold iris
oh yeah, arthur special is uncomfortably slow
hearty elbow
But also pretty much most aspects, but Arthur, yes.
untold iris
i feel like regular sword special is fast enough that you can definitely spread status with it
cunning urchin
But what if you get Dash Nova on Excalibur in the test branch.
fiery ginkgo
i was just about to come in here and ask about sword
untold iris
plus if you play nemesis you're going to be spamming special every few seconds anyways
untold iris
what heat options are you taking
fiery ginkgo
which just crushes
uh well the main issue is that the sword feels like a wet noodle once i hit elysium
hearty elbow
With Nemesis I either want DIvine, Heartbreak, or Deadly Strike. With Heartbreak Strike specifically, I could see going PS since as you mentioned, you do use the special quite often anyway, but not the other two.
cunning urchin
Nemesis actually wants Heartbreak Strike because you already have crits on your Attack.
untold iris
if you just take like EM3 + TD2 thats basically like 10 heat and the game is pretty much exactly as hard as 0 heat would be
hearty elbow
Until the very end, at which point it becomes harder than most other 10 heat configurations lol
cunning urchin
I'd still take Family Favorite on Nemesis. You'll go for Deadly Flourish anyway to get Heart Rend.
finite socket
Is Aspect of Lucifer hammer dependent or what? People seem to tend to picking hammer upgrades for it
hearty elbow
I'd still take Family Favorite on Nemesis. You'll go for Deadly Flourish anyway to get Heart Rend.
@cunning urchin (I agree, I'm just throwing the PS fanpeople a bone)
untold iris
am I supposed to be taking deadly flourish?
I usually take artemis cast if its offered instead
hearty elbow
Deadly Flourish is nice because the special hammers for Stygius are actually semi decent and it gives you some extra damage.
gray shore
huh i never thought of it that way
cunning urchin
I mean, you use your Special way more than your Cast. Might as well put some good damage on it that can also crit.
untold iris
oh, that reminds me, I'm pretty disappointed by the hammers for sword
gray shore
that's a nice tip
hearty elbow
Stygius has no second hammer that Nemesis wants for its attack lol
untold iris
they just arent nearly as exciting as hammers for the other weapons
untold iris
I think I had like four runs in a row where my hammers were flurry attack + the double special thing
gray shore
no hammer codex
marble cloud
idk I had a lot of fun with a nemesis sword run yesterday
artemis attack boon + nemesis upgrades + flurry hammer made for a crazy good time
untold iris
i dont remember hammer names very well but I know what they do
hearty elbow
It's Double Edge or bust on Nemesis. The rest of it is filler
Dash Nova is acceptable
marble cloud
a codex for the hammer upgrades would be nice though
gray shore
yah sure the dash-strike thingy combined with the triple hitty thingy = big smak hammer combo
:)
cunning urchin
@finite socket I think the people who regularly play Lucifer Aspect are mainly on KBM because any interactions with the Special are just bad on pad.
gray shore
lel
untold iris
in all my runs the best filler I ended up with were flurry attack and double special
cunning urchin
So I've absolutely no idea.
finite socket
Well makes sense
Most upgrades i see are only for the laser
Is the Hellfire that bad or what
worn crypt
I love flurry slash. Is it not increased dps?
marble cloud
it's difficult to get the hammer upgrades to really make it work
finite socket
Damn
cunning urchin
Most high heat players play on pad, so we just ignore the aspect lol.
untold iris
the best thing about flurry slash is that i cant accidentally push enemies away with the sword anymore
:^)
marble cloud
but I find myself not using it too often
cunning urchin
Supposedly it's somehow workable on KBM lol.
gray shore
so what you're saying is
hearty elbow
They buffed the rate at which the Hellfire bombs drop significantly, but not significantly enough that I care to play Lucifer still. They didn't fix any of the core issues with the aspect's attack.
gray shore
you're awaiting for the coming of the KBM god gamer
willow fossil
While hellfire is good, the best thing about lucifer is the damage ramp up
marble cloud
the damage ramp is tasty
gray shore
to bring balance to the Force Hades
cunning urchin
The test branch has some buffs for Lucifer Aspect. Try it out and give them some feedback on it.
finite socket
Maybe i will later
hearty elbow
While hellfire is good, the best thing about lucifer is the damage ramp up
@willow fossil I agree. But it's also its worth trait lol
gray shore
and show that Lucifer is indeed actually viable
marble cloud
personally Lucifer aspect is my favorite of Exagryph
cunning urchin
They're looking for feedback, but the test branch channels are so silent lol.
willow fossil
You can set a hellfire trap before enemies spawn, but thats about it
marble cloud
↑
hearty elbow
Because in a hectic fight, the more you have to stop attacking to dash with invincibility, the more you have to endure the terrible startup animation and hold attack for 3 seconds to actually do damage.
willow fossil
^
marble cloud
can sometimes be nice to have the 3-rapid hammer upgrade
finite socket
And the 20 ammo doesn't really help so Concentrated Beam is core i guess
cunning urchin
Lucifer with 1 dash is basically unplayable in my experience lol.
hearty elbow
Flash Fire is by an extremely large margin the best Lucifer specific hammer.
untold iris
it would be cool if lucifer's damage didnt fall off after briefly stopping your attack
marble cloud
I've loved artemis stuff with lucifer aspect
hearty elbow
It makes it feel like an actual weapon
finite socket
Well Concentrated Beam gives double ramp rate so it's good too
marble cloud
support fire and hermes upgrades for faster attacks made for a fine time
gray shore
@cunning urchin I think the feedback will filter in later, probably
I suspect a lot of 1.0 kids like me are still adjusting
hearty elbow
Yeah I don't mind Concentrated Beam as a secondary for crit builds and stuff.
gray shore
I know I don't feel ready to act like I could provide focussed feedback
finite socket
I maybe think i did something wrong
untold iris
so eternal chamber is trash right?
gray shore
I'm still branching out of my own comfort zone of aspects and builds
finite socket
I picked Concentrated Beam
But
Flash Fire was also in the hammer
Damn
For now i got Zeus attack/Athena Dash and Call/Pressure Points
Static Discharge too
marble cloud
eternal chamber needs a lot of other specific stuff to make it work
hearty elbow
For Zeus attack builds the choice is not particularly close. Flash Fire and Eternal Chamber are the only ones that actually do anything.
marble cloud
unless I've got a lot of artemis/zeus boons, I avoid it
oh, and poseidon attack + eternal chamber is just silly, though a bit less viable
hearty elbow
Given both choices, still take Flash Fire though. You have to dash to dodge stuff more than most aspects since you have no native way to deal with projectiles, and you don't get iframes while you're attacking with the laser.
finite socket
The issue is, doesn't Flash Fire also increase ammo consumption?
From the description i thought it would be the case
marble cloud
I think so? personally I never minded that
reloading doesn't stop while you cast or special
so it's a good time for me to remember I have other abilities
hearty elbow
Though it's funny that Lucifer has a unique quality of not auto-reloading when you dash while attacking with an empty clip
eternal furnace
My first win... Smoldering Air + Aphrodite's Aid = instant cheese mode.
hearty elbow
More people need to try that combo lol. People sleep on Aphro's Aid
eternal furnace
It's amazing. Hades couldn't cast at all
hearty elbow
It's stupid good when you get Smoldering Air
marble cloud
I am guilty of sleeping on both of those
but it's usually a result of getting offered other really good boons when I'm choosing
eternal furnace
Forgive the ignorance, but what do you mean by sleeping on them?
hearty elbow
People dismiss them as viable options
eternal furnace
Ah, fair enough
marble cloud
or at the very least underestimate them
kindred trout
I ended up with Concentrated Beam and Flash Fire on my recent Zeus Attack Lucifer run. Concentrated Bem obviously would be better with a %-based boon, but even with a level 3 rare Zeus Attack I did more single-target weapon damage than lightning damage, even before concentrated beam.
hearty elbow
Most people like Aphro's Aid for the 2500 damage nuke, but I find that relatively pointless.
2500 damage is not that much for that much work.
marble cloud
the charm is the main part yeah
cunning urchin
Chariots do more than that when charmed lol.
marble cloud
it's also nice to have that + the hermes auto-god gauge fill
cunning urchin
Elysium is so relaxing with Aphrodite's Aid, actually.
marble cloud
the one time I got that combo, I was doing a call every 3 seconds pretty much
cunning urchin
Just have all the enemies that you hate the most fight for you instead.
hearty elbow
I ended up with Concentrated Beam and Flash Fire on my recent Zeus Attack Lucifer run. Concentrated Bem obviously would be better with a %-based boon, but even with a level 3 rare Zeus Attack I did more single-target weapon damage than lightning damage, even before concentrated beam.
@kindred trout Yeah, Zeus attack falls off significantly if you don't find other Zeus boons to stack it up.
cunning urchin
Then kill them when their job is done.
hearty elbow
It's why I don't like going Zeus on Lucifer, as Eris does it 75% better hue
gray shore
xD
cunning urchin
I don't know why you would take Lightning Strike on Lucifer. It seems like far from optimal, intuitively.
If you're not leaning in on the ramp damage, why even take the aspect?
kindred trout
Oh my Zeus build was awesome, I ended up with level 3 heroic static, zeus legendary, and cold fusion, and level 2 storm lightning.
marble cloud
pewpewpew
cunning urchin
Unless you're focusing on doing something with the Special.
marble cloud
I found it worked pretty nicely for me when I had Pressure Points and Support Fire
cunning urchin
It doesn't even shoot fast with that startup lol.
I mean, it works because it's rail. But I doubt it's anywhere near optimal.
marble cloud
oh, it definitely wasn't optimal
kindred trout
I don't know why you would take Lightning Strike on Lucifer. It seems like far from optimal, intuitively.
@cunning urchin Lucifer hits someone 20 times faster than I think anything else can hit someone 20 times. I feel like it's going to be the most lightning damage you can get, and it's actually nice to be less dependent on the ramp up. Also really nice to be able to damage people outside that pathetic range.
marble cloud
but I had fun with it at the very least
hearty elbow
You're not looking for optimal if you're playing Lucifer. You're looking for big flashy lasers
marble cloud
^
cunning urchin
I'm looking for pink lasers.
cunning urchin
I mean, Chiron Volley arrows hit way faster than Lucifer lol.
If we're comparing attacks with terrible startup.
Chiron Volley has better startup.
I take it back.
hearty elbow
Yeah you would be right from pre-1.0 lol
It'd be cool if Lucifer could have a hammer than made like a Van Der Graff generator effect at the end of the laser, ala Explosive Fire but lasers
finite socket
It's sad that from the secret Aspects only like
2 of them
Are actually really good
Others are meh at best
cunning urchin
You don't even hit anything 20 times with it. What even survives 20 attacks? lol
finite socket
By them i mean Beowulf and Rama mostly, with maaaaaybe Guan Yu
hearty elbow
I think 2 of them are meh. Excalibur and GY could use some love for very high heat but are still extremely good for the heat that over 99% of people play at, so I can't really complain.
worn crypt
You know you messed up when you immediately get "several people are typing"
kindred trout
I mean, Chiron Volley arrows hit way faster than Lucifer lol.
@cunning urchin
Chiron Volley is a special, so it can't trigger chain lightning. I'm pretty sure aspect of lucifer is the most chain lightning you can get.
still vigil
Don’t you dare take the name of Gilgamesh in vain though you right
If only that end lag on the special could go away...
hearty elbow
Lucifer and Gilgamesh are newest though, so I have hopes that they'll continue tweaking them.
They tweaked Rama like a million times lol
Including a nerf. Shared Suffering was originally 80%
hearty elbow
to be fair the Power Shot was so grossly unusable that it was meant to offset the fact that you were using uncharged attacks
still vigil
Hmm
I’m not even sure how Gilgamesh would even be tweaked to be worthy of its blood cost
Without makin it busted
hearty elbow
Maim be a little bit less commital, attack be a little bit less commital
untold iris
they should play more into the bonus dashes part of the weapon
that would be cool imo
hearty elbow
Dash Strike actually doing damage.
still vigil
qwq
hearty elbow
One of my favorite things about the aspect is that dashing after attacking auto-buffers a "free" dash strike. It looks cool, and does no damage.
And I have to assume it also has no iframes lol
finite socket
Yeah i just gave up going for Gilgamesh after getting the other 5
untold iris
wait I just realized that gilgamesh's dash strike does less damage than regular fist dash strike
hearty elbow
It does more damage than Rail and non-hidden Fist attacks, and Rama special, and one arrow of normal Bow special and...
That might be it.
still vigil
The damage drop from using attack is noticeable tho, but the attack feels so risky to use
Not sure why
finite socket
Which is just painful as hell
I might just do an Excalibur run after this Lucifer one
still vigil
I hate the run I’m on
I died in tartarus to numbskulls due to them all giving each other shields
finite socket
What builds for Excal?
hearty elbow
Savior used to not have a blue heart cap
untold iris
numbskulls with shields is terrifying
untold iris
fists are not bad because they attack quickly
hearty elbow
What builds for Excal?
@finite socket Artemis/Aphro attack, either aiming for Heart Rend or Smoldering Air. Divine Dash is more necessary than usual.
cunning urchin
Divine Strike is also really good.
untold iris
you can dash in between attacks of your regular combo
which is nice because the third hit does a lot of damage
but standing still and attacking three times is really slow
still vigil
They do but numskulls with max JS, armor, and Savior on is not a fun time
hearty elbow
Actually, testing Gilgamesh now, I can't explain it. You can dash pretty soon after the attack, but you don't go very far and if you do it too quickly you end up dash striking
cunning urchin
I used to struggle with Savior Numbskulls, but now it's just a free chamber.
hearty elbow
It just doesn't feel very good to attack with it lol. It feels like I'm in danger the whole time
still vigil
Tell me how to deal with them when I’m using fists please
cunning urchin
@hearty elbow what build are you going for?
I'd honestly just aim to backstab everything. That works best.
hearty elbow
Just killing Skelly. I mentioned somewhere above that you can't cancel attack into dash very quickly but I'm wrong.
still vigil
I’m very close to turnin on god mode 
worn crypt
Punch them imo
hearty elbow
But assuming that like most dash strikes, you don't get iframes, it does make your vulnerability window really large if you try to cancel too fast.
cunning urchin
I don't think that's specific to Gilgamesh. I used to have that issue on any Malphon aspect.
Doesn't really happen anymore. I guess it's just more awareness of when you need to be ready to empty dash soon? No idea really.
hearty elbow
Gilgamesh is definitely unique in converting lone dash inputs into Dash Strikes if you do it too soon during an attack animation though.
hearty elbow
It doesn't work if you do it on empty air, but it works if you're connecting to an enemy with an attack
cunning urchin
I dunno. I've had no issues like that in the test branch lately. Fit like a glove.
But I've also probably the second-most runs with Malphon after Resqtoaster? lol
I guess it's just skill. 
still vigil
I want skill
cunning urchin
Take Divine Dash and you'll have skill.
hearty elbow
Interesting. I think I may just be unlucky with the frame window I happen to want to dash in. It's a very tight window, I'm pretty sure independent of attacking an enemy or not. You can input Attack + Dash and get Attack + Dash Strike.
cunning urchin
Hmm. Yeah, make sure you let go of Attack completely before you press Dash on Malphon.