h1-builds-and-combat

[shadow ridge]

and just being really toxic towards the content creator

[dry ember]

my "extremely" good guide doesn't attract viewers, the other guy must be full of nonsense

[shadow ridge]

then made a surprised pikachu face when the youtuber wanted nothing to do with them

[primal hazel]

I'm never saying choice is not the key of hades
But there's an objective power level of some degree
And when someone tries to assertain and spread that
It should at least not be not good

[dry ember]

anyhow, we can all agree that Artemis is best girl

the truth of Hades

[cunning urchin]

Yeah. This isn't a "these are the most fun aspects" or whatever tier list. It's presented as "these are the strongest".

[primal hazel]

BOULDY ONLY

That's my point yes

One new player already looked at this for guidance

[dry ember]

"these are the strongest".
Clickbaits will be clickbaits.

[primal hazel]

That in itself is a debatable practice

[dry ember]

what's bouldy keepsake?

that's right, there is none

[primal hazel]

Shackles/Shady

[dry ember]

that's sisyphus'

[primal hazel]

Enough said

[dry ember]

that's right, bouldy only takes, no gives

[primal hazel]

Look at that smile

[cunning urchin]

What makes the standard bow good is dashing next to monsters and unloading the special attack into them at point blank range. Few things in the game compare to the level of damage output that comes from doing that
This is just objectively false lol.

[calm saddle]

loool

[dry ember]

ok, now that makes me cringe

[calm saddle]

who said that

[dry ember]

there is some truth in that

[primal hazel]

The most fun tier list

[cunning urchin]

This is from the aspect tier list.

[dry ember]

but stating that as the main playstyle is 😦

[primal hazel]

Problem is most stuff in that article is stated as facts

[dry ember]

anyhow, dissecting the article is like beating a dead horse

it's not optimal

carry on

[cunning urchin]

What makes the default sword good is basically just the ridiculous attack speed you can achieve between its ability, the attack speed hammer upgrade and the attack speed Hermes boon. With that much attack speed, if you rock the lifesteal hammer upgrade on Zagreus, you heal yourself far more quickly than any monster is capable of damaging you, including Hades, even on high heat.

[primal hazel]

And that's f
u
n

Literally beginner trap lol

[willow fossil]

I honestly hate how much freedom you get in hades as a roguelike, it leads to negative comments from new players

[calm saddle]

???

[shadow ridge]

Where did this article even come from? I wasn't aware that Brick Rock Media dot com was the leading authority and destination to get information about Hades

[primal hazel]

Freedom is equalitarian

[calm saddle]

they aren't

they are just one of the first pages to pop up whenever u search for builds or tierlists

[cunning urchin]

Somebody in the new player channel asked if it was a good list.

[shadow ridge]

I can register Fiorinol Loves Dusa dot com and publish really terrible guides

[primal hazel]

Official SGG subsite xD

[calm saddle]

when it comes to hades

[shadow ridge]

[cunning urchin]

Sometime earlier today.

[willow fossil]

"I finished the epilogue and got heat 20 no variety" well if you came here and asked whats meta, and someone told you eris zeus and you played 50 hrs straight with eris zeus, I expect you to get burnt out

[primal hazel]

"Chaos bad "

[willow fossil]

Lmfao

[cunning urchin]

Rama is somewhat underwhelming.
even if you put in all the extra effort to utilize Rama to the peak of its potential, it still doesn’t come close to just equipping the default bow and spamming its special into enemies’ faces.
I'm sorry, but this is funny.

[primal hazel]

"hammer not being rollable is hades only flaw"

[willow fossil]

Like you're not supposed to play the meta every run, what makes a roguelike, is doing something different every run

[primal hazel]

Vanilla bow>Rama
Kappa

[silk anvil]

But Ramas charge time 🤢

More like, nahmas, amirite?

[dry ember]

Vanilla Bow = Rama

[silk anvil]

wait, am i dumb nyaanyaa dont answer that

whats the new bow?

[primal hazel]

You fool

[torpid light]

I just got caught up on this convo and WHOA hey now I'm a bow special shotgun main :(
Although I play it a lot less since the nerf made it more reliant on the right Daedalus hammer

[hearty elbow]

To the people lol'ing at Eris placement, keep in mind that it was basically C-tier until 1.0. Because no one really gave it a shot lol.

[dry ember]

if you want to do shotgun special bow, just like play chiron

[primal hazel]

The tier list is post 1.0 tho

[silk anvil]

I thought eris was generally good because people liek that static + damage @hearty elbow

[hearty elbow]

Eris is generally good becasue 75% global damage is good on literally everything.

[dry ember]

I did try Eris for speedrunning

[hearty elbow]

Rail is already good with Lightning Strike

[dry ember]

pre 1.0

it's ok

[silk anvil]

Rail is already good with Lightning Strike
@hearty elbow fast hitting weapons with good static + damage; who'd a thunk it

[hearty elbow]

Right, Eris is S-tier because it gets 75% damage for free

[dry ember]

can we have pre 1.0 support fire and spreadfire back?

[shadow ridge]

Not a fan of zagreus rail. I don't know how effective it is, but it feels like a pea-shooter, I loathe how the special targets with auto-aim in particular.

[dry ember]

can we revert back to nighty night?

[silk anvil]

why doesn't Achilles get same benefit for it's +125% damage or whatever?

[primal hazel]

Haha +4 ammo go not brrr

Checkmate atheist

[silk anvil]

(probably the lack of a Special fire that can turn into a massive 5 rocket barrage)

[hearty elbow]

Achilles is 150 to only cast attack and special iirc

[dry ember]

rocket bomb cluster bomb is bomb

[shadow ridge]

the rocket makes me happy

[torpid light]

I feel like I prefire onto enemy spawns too much to justify rocket, but at the same time, it's a rocket

[cunning urchin]

@willow fossil I think what some people don't understand is that the "meta" is mostly just what we discovered so far that's strong, but there's so, so, so much we never even looked at in any depth. Like, there's a clip in #h1-high-heat-strategies with 600+ damage Attacks on Malphon which must come from +700% damage somewhere, but we can't quite figure out how the numbers happened because our numbers only add up to +400% lol.

[hearty elbow]

The 40+ community that's active here is so small that the "meta" gets heavily defined by player preferences.

[primal hazel]

Hackz

[cunning urchin]

Yeah, that and whatever speedrunners are doing.

[hearty elbow]

And I'd argue that below 32, it really is just an open game, chase your own bliss, tires don exits

[cunning urchin]

Eris was in "no idea honestly" tier until 1.0 lol.

The people who were looking for optimal builds weren't playing Eris, and the few who did play it typically focused on Special builds.

[hearty elbow]

We had some outliers we should have paid attention to, like bablo's 48 with Eris in Blood Price, but that was confounded by the fact that bablo gets 45+ on like nearly every aspect.

[cunning urchin]

Yeah lol. It was also shortly before 1.0.

[forest yacht]

Hello lads! Was wondering if I could get some advice for clearing a run with varatha? I’ve cleared with all the weapons except that and stygius and I’m pulling my hair out 😩 I feel like Im not picking the boons that could make it more optimal but honestly I just hate how the spear plays lol last few times I’ve come close I’ve had hades aspect, Poseidon boons mostly with Dionysus call and a scattering of Athena/Aphrodite/Demeter buffs. Also Daedalus hammers I go for the “sturdy spin + 30dmg” one. So I guess am I missing some more powerful combos/strategy? Or do I just have to keep trying?

[cunning urchin]

bablo was the first person looking into Eris at all.

[hearty elbow]

And by "looking into," he puts the aspects on Shuffle and submits records for them.

[robust anchor]

kekw

[cunning urchin]

Actually, he revived until he got a hammer or good boon chamber 1, then looked at which aspect had a promising start with that and just practiced on the seed.

[hazy slate]

i think for spear the 3 kinds of builds people go for are special, spin, or dash strike

depends on hammers you get

[cunning urchin]

Much faster than dying 200 times for one specific AP2 seed for one specific aspect lol.

[robust anchor]

he just got a 6:31 igt

feelsbabloman

[primal hazel]

I like that

[hearty elbow]

Chaos was also broken pre-1.0, but the top 3 records with it all came from the literal dream AP2 seed, with 2 Epic boons in the first 3 rooms and Athena in Tartarus.

[cunning urchin]

Spin builds are really just a Guan Yu thing.

[torpid light]

I personally found the dash strike Varatha hammer to be the easiest to work with too

[cunning urchin]

Hades Aspect does Attack, Dash-Strike, or Special.

[willow fossil]

Is it weird that I love chilling in the different channels on this discord

[cunning urchin]

Depending on hammers.

[red mist]

Serrated strike? Madlad here

No it's not dio

[primal hazel]

Never close my phone

[willow fossil]

@primal hazel chaos bad

[primal hazel]

DONT YOU DAAAAAARE

[red mist]

It's, like, your job to chill out

[willow fossil]

My job is to be drunk

[primal hazel]

Im helping with that

By randomly popping in

[silk anvil]

when y'all practice with seeds, do you just copy-pasta the game files and overwrite your save every time or something?

[robust anchor]

no

[forest yacht]

Thanks for the advice ☺️ I guess I’ll try some different builds other than spin 😅 or maybe give Gianna try 👀

[robust anchor]

if you give up it saves the seed

[forest yacht]

Guan*

[robust anchor]

just dont actually die

alternatively you can download a mod

[silk anvil]

I take it you have to be quick on the trigger to give up before taking a chunk of damage that'd end your life

modding is the coolest concept that I will always be too lazy to implement in any game

[dry ember]

@silk anvil there is a save manager tool that I use to save seeds and practice certain fights

[hearty elbow]

The tier list is so confusing. Why separate Chiron and Hestia by such a wide margin?

"and it doesn’t cost much to upgrade." What does this mean lol?!?! Every non Zag costs basically the same.

[dry ember]

initially yeah, I copy and paste save files

[silk anvil]

also, I found out while trying to mod skyrim just how particular and >:C the modding community was very pretentious about helping people with questions. granted, I can see getting tired of same-ol same-ol questions

[dry ember]

depends on the community. in my experience, the bigger the community, the more likely they are pretty "shut in."

[willow fossil]

How do you duplicate save files, I want to use some mods but I dont want them in my main save

[silk anvil]

in a complete 180* from this current conversation; has any of the runners here done SL0 hell mode run of the game? Is the first run of the game always that same seed?

[dry ember]

do you know where the save file folder of Hades is?

[hearty elbow]

Soul Level 0? Lol

[willow fossil]

The first few runs of a new save are usually scripted yes

No fox

[dry ember]

go there, copy profilex.sav, with x being your save slot, from 1 to 4

ah ok

[silk anvil]

yeah, Soul Level 0 @hearty elbow , I feel Dark Souls is applicable enough here

[primal hazel]

Don't you know soul level 0?

Dark souls easy mode

[dry ember]

Window + E -> Documents -> Saved Games -> Hades

[hearty elbow]

Obviously I know what it is, I guessed the acronym he used lmao

[silk anvil]

Dark souls easy mode: 63 heat is the dark souls of rougelikes

[hearty elbow]

Hades is extremely different from Dark Souls. It's procedural, with non-constant builds and variable boss fights

That alone makes the SL0 approach to 63/64 way harder, since you just may not end up with the damage even with perfect execution

[dry ember]

in there should be a file called profile1.sav, or profile2.sav, etc. depending on the slot of your save. copy that, name it something memorable. if you want to load the save, rename the save to profilex.sav again, load the x slot, you are done (if the slot loads the beginning of a run, just quit out and load again).

[silk anvil]

(the joke is how game review articles would always ascribe a new "difficult game" the title of "the Dark Souls of [genre]"...)

[hearty elbow]

(actually I'm kind of curious to see what the speedrunning discord has come up with, because I'm not really sure of a build that even with perfect boons could do 63 sub 20 minutes)

[dry ember]

not too long ago, I said I don't want to see Hades, or any game for that matter, being a "Dark Souls" of x genre

it's a cliche expression

[silk anvil]

but my point remains that when I say SL0, I mean 0 mirror upgrades, and in this particular situation, if the answer of "is the first seed of the game always the same" does technically mean that the game is the same every time, no?

[hearty elbow]

No

[dry ember]

and any journalist who uses it isn't worth their salt imo

[silk anvil]

and any journalist who uses it isn't worth their salt imo
@dry ember video game journalists are hacks anyway, this isn't news!

[hearty elbow]

Seed is 1 variable. Even so much as Zagreus saying a particular line or you killing one pot accidentally puts you in a different branching pathway

[silk anvil]

They're good for the meme

[primal hazel]

it's a cliche expression
@dry ember dat e the jok e

[dry ember]

the only trustworthy video journalist is obviously videogamedunkey

[silk anvil]

@dry ember dat e the jok e
@primal hazel the real question at this point: "are they self aware?"

[dry ember]

Knack 5/5 bb

[primal hazel]

Big facts

[dry ember]

Knack >>> Hades

sad but true

[primal hazel]

Knack 3/2

[worn citrus]

I guess you can say that dunkey has a Knack for video game journalism.

[primal hazel]

Why

[dry ember]

sigh

kinda respect the pun though

[still vigil]

ew

[violet halo]

Hey, what is the recommended build to clear 32 heat these days? It used to be Chaos Shield, but that one is nerfed since release, right?

Need to get that Skelly statue :p

[hearty elbow]

Whatever you're most comfortable with

[dry ember]

it's still Chaos shield tbh, the same way, too. takes some adjustment, but it's still very doable and reliable with the old build (ares special or zues special).

[hearty elbow]

Chiron, Hestia, and Eris probably have some of the easiest time doing it, but Chaos is still the safest, even if it is just so slow now

[primal hazel]

Zeus special

[violet halo]

Hmm, interesting. Thanks 🙂

[primal hazel]

Really?

[dry ember]

yeah, Zeus spec on Chaos has been a thing, even post 1.0

Chaos was an adjustment imo, the "nerf" isn't that bad.

[hearty elbow]

It just used to be... extra super duper amazing because the 360 degree ricochets means the shields would already return staggered, so you'd get way more Thunder Flourish procs than should be possible.

[worn citrus]

I only started to play after 1.0. What was the nerf on chaos shield?

[robust anchor]

it shoots all in front now

not in every direction

[primal hazel]

You got an example build for that?> yeah, Zeus spec on Chaos has been a thing, even post 1.0
@dry ember

[hearty elbow]

Narrowed star pattern to a tight cone, reduced range, no ricochets

[worn citrus]

Oh, it used to release shields in different directions? I guess that would be better for clearing a room

Don't the ricochet anyway tho?

[primal hazel]

Not between enemies

[hearty elbow]

If you use the shield special by itself it will bounce between two enemies. I don't think Chaos' empowered special does that anymore though.

[violet halo]

do you force Zeus trinket in Tartarus just to get the special?

[primal hazel]

They more or less changed how the weapon is played ig
More close range shotgun

[robust anchor]

yes

[primal hazel]

Force

[robust anchor]

i always use keepsakes to get the right first boon

[reef galleon]

TIL do not buy charged shot on beo cast build

[hearty elbow]

Lol, it's just Hera at that point.

[dry ember]

don't know about others but I would do:
Ares Attack
Zeus Spec + Jolted + ideally Splitting Bolt
whatever cast
whatever dash, ideally Divine Dash or something to enable Privilege Status if you don't have Jolted
whatever call

[primal hazel]

Mom I wanna play hera
We have hera at home
Hera at home:> TIL do not buy charged shot on beo cast build
@reef galleon

[hearty elbow]

I would do Demeter attack for Cold Fusion probably. Way less damage than Doom would be but the ceiling is higher

[dry ember]

yeah that works too

[hearty elbow]

I haven't tried the shotgun builds though, I heard they did something.

[opal lodge]

i tried jumping up from 20 to 32 and got walloped do people usually just jump to 32 or is there a better increment

[hearty elbow]

It could also be the pacts you chose with the aspect

20-32 is a big jump though

[dry ember]

I did 5 to 32, it was a bit for the meme though

took me like 7 or 8 tries

[opal lodge]

LOL

[hearty elbow]

Lol, pre-1.0, I did the tried and true 1-10 Chaos, shrug, 20, shrug, 32, shrug, 40

[primal hazel]

I'm gonna patiently climb up 1 by 1 with all

[misty nimbus]

Me sitting over here at 3 heat, thinking i'm pro because of my win streak

[hearty elbow]

I then tried that with... any other aspect I actually enjoyed and got summarily destroyed

[cunning urchin]

I can't imagine Chaos Aspect being easier for 32 Heat than deleting everything from fullscreen with Chiron by just alternating Attack and Special.

[hearty elbow]

It helps to be able to block bosses and stuff

[worn citrus]

I can't imagine Chaos Aspect being easier for 32 Heat than deleting everything from fullscreen with Chiron by just alternating Attack and Special.
Tell me more about this

[cunning urchin]

Heartbreak Strike, Deadly Flourish, Heart Rend.

Or vice versa.

[primal hazel]

You press attack
Then you play special

[hearty elbow]

Flamewheels, Chariots, Dad lasers, skull waves, etc. Stuff that's hard until you learn how to deal with it.

[worn citrus]

inb4 never see heart rend ever despite all odds being for it

[primal hazel]

Heartbreak Strike, Deadly Flourish, Heart Rend.
@cunning urchin watch out for the nyaanyaa special

[cunning urchin]

You don't "need" Heart Rend.

[worn citrus]

Big number good though

[hearty elbow]

Lmao... that's a generous way of putting that. Heartbreak/Deadly anything is just pretty easily the go-to for anything with existent base damage

[abstract kernel]

does increasing heat make the rooms drop more gems and shadow ?

[hearty elbow]

Nope

Darker/est Thirst does though (house contractor upgrade)

[proven osprey]

hey guys, is Eris playable with a controller ?

[primal hazel]

@dry ember thanks

[hearty elbow]

Yeah I've had no issues

[primal hazel]

What's that question

[violet halo]

@lucid holly current WR is with a controller

[proven osprey]

oh really

[violet halo]

Yep

[hearty elbow]

Pretty sure most of the high heat community is Gamepad Gang

[cyan mantle]

so I'm using Hazard Bomb + Eris :V

[cunning urchin]

There are a couple builds I pushed very heavily in the meta and, I would think, helped make popular, but that Chiron build isn't one of them lol.

[cyan mantle]

I'm sad that tehre's neither a hidden Prophecy nor an Achievement for that idiocy

[proven osprey]

There are a couple builds I pushed very heavily in the meta and, I would think, helped make popular, but that Chiron build isn't one of them lol.
@cunning urchin Did you share them somewhere ?

[hearty elbow]

You can't really... do that with builds

They're fluid

[silk anvil]

I can't imagine Chaos Aspect being easier for 32 Heat than deleting everything from fullscreen with Chiron by just alternating Attack and Special.
@cunning urchin
I had the most disappointing Chaos Aspect build earlier. in 6+ runs, it was the first one where Hermes decided to give me +attack speed; so my weak heartbreak strike got to at least hit faster.

And zeus on special didn't really wave clear as great as I would hope... and yet, with Chiron, Zeus was at least nice enough to give me his legendary to help speed things along

[proven osprey]

yeah but there is a core

[hearty elbow]

She posted videos and stuff of her records, like we all do

[opal lodge]

vice versa seems like it would be inferior right

for heart rend chiron

like if you had deadly strike that feels weaker to me

[silk anvil]

I should switch to gamepad; terrible left hand support is doubtlessly giving me carpel tunnel 🦾

[hearty elbow]

like if you had deadly strike that feels weaker to me
@opal lodge "kind of" With respect to Heart Rend yes but usually by itself Heartbreak Strike/Flourish has the highest standalone damage

So while it would be amusing to see Chiron with Deadly Strike + Heartbreak Flourish, that's still a very functional build, and you kind of made your own Zag aspect too lol

[opal lodge]

lol

does anyone prefer zag aspect for any weapon over the alternate aspects

aside from maybe zag for rail to do spread fire nonsense

[hearty elbow]

I prefer Zag bow over Hera I guess. Zag rail over Lucifer, Zag fist over Talos and Gilgamesh

[cunning urchin]

@proven osprey Heartbreak Strike/Flourish + Zeus' Aid + Divine Dash + Smoldering Air on any aspect with high base damage is one I've been using and talking about pretty much since Smoldering Air came out lol. That can clear anything up to 50-ish, and up to ~40 Heat you can get all of that very reliably.

[proven osprey]

Yeah I really like that

[opal lodge]

is it worth going for billowing strength on that too

[hearty elbow]

Of course

[silk anvil]

@cunning urchin , how many times have they denied you Smoldering air despite having the prereqs?

[hearty elbow]

Free damage lol

[cunning urchin]

No idea. Even if you don't get the Duo, the build is rock solid.

[hearty elbow]

@cunning urchin , how many times have they denied you Smoldering air despite having the prereqs?
@silk anvil Lmao, like all the time, but the nice thing is that with Heartbreak Strike/Flourish, you don't need it most of the time. You have a good call, good damage, so you can still win

[cunning urchin]

Yeah.

[silk anvil]

yeah, I suppose I was still able to beat hades well enough, but BOY HOWDY was it not fun

Chaos Shield post nerf? 0/10 would not recommend

maybe my supporting gods weren't really pulling their weight either

[primal hazel]

[silk anvil]

but it was silly hitting hades for 30 damage with heartbreak strike 🤔

[primal hazel]

15/10 would still recommend

[silk anvil]

but why?

it's a less fun bow now

[primal hazel]

Because it good

Whats that comparison

[silk anvil]

an apt one

[primal hazel]

I had enough discussions with people saying chaos is trash

[hearty elbow]

Out of curiosity, I'll try a 40 unseeded Chaos with Thunder Flourish to see how bad it feels. Haven't used it at high heat in 1.0

[primal hazel]

I'm done for today

[silk anvil]

then again, I've been anti shield gang since I started; so no one has really shifted my favor in them, ever

Out of curiosity, I'll try a 40 unseeded Chaos with Thunder Flourish to see how bad it feels. Haven't used it at high heat in 1.0
@hearty elbow have fun yo

[primal hazel]

Personal preference
Don't impose it though

[silk anvil]

impose it?

you mean diss it undeservedly?

[proven osprey]

@cunning urchin Ty for your answer, helpful as always

[primal hazel]

Yup

[silk anvil]

credit where it's due: damage block on AOE attacks is a nice change of pace considering how much I rant against the mobs for doing it against me; so to do the same to hades while I jokingly cowered in the corner? that was fun

it made me theory craft if it's actually a viable strat; or if hades would eventually throw a skull behind me that force me to look away for a second

[cunning urchin]

@proven osprey Zag Aspect of Malphon + Divine Strike + Hunter Dash + Support Fire + Deadly Reversal is what I used for everything from like 0 Heat up to 41 Heat WR with Malphon when that was the only weapon I used at all. Typically with Lady Aphrodite thrown somewhere in there for Spent Spirit (which is now Calculated Risk and used to be from Lady Aphrodite + Lady Athena). I also recommended it to everyone. People here actually started calling it the "Mewmew Special" (I didn't lol).

But Spent Spirit got removed from their pool and given to a different combo, Hunter Dash got nerfed, Rolling Knuckle got nerfed, Support Fire got nerfed, Deflect damage to bosses got nerfed, and finally in 1.0, Zag Aspect had its Attack speed bonus from its first attack removed lol.

[opal lodge]

sometimes when he does the spinning lunch he can get behind your shiled

lunge

learned that the hard way

you can 180 block if you're a gamer but it gets me a lot of the time

[cunning urchin]

I'll take some credit for causing at least some of those nerfs by abusing the hell out of the boons lol.

[opal lodge]

calculated risk is dio/athena?

[proven osprey]

So this build is dead ?

[silk anvil]

So this build is dead ?
@proven osprey whole game is dead now, actually; thanks Nyaanyaa

Out of curiosity, I'll try a 40 unseeded Chaos with Thunder Flourish to see how bad it feels. Haven't used it at high heat in 1.0
@hearty elbow https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/617187825602789389/766771828684488704/unknown.png if you're trying to experience what it was like to be a mere mortal, heres the cursedly awful build I had; what a shame it doesn't show rarities; but If I recall correctly: they were all terrible

For what it's worth, a huge chunk of why I couldn't stand that run is because I took the hammer +4 shield flight bounce, just to see if it was as awful as people said it was, or if I'd be better off from having more lightning bolts hit people. Turns out: it was indeed awful, you're better off with a quick return and just spamming the charge+special more, I reckon. Got lucky with an anvil at the end to remove that boon and got what you see there instead

[primal hazel]

You don't play chaos for bounce

Never

[silk anvil]

Never
@primal hazel you certainly don't play it for shotgunning either then

at least not with zeus

[primal hazel]

You do

[silk anvil]

Chiron gets a pass because it takes long enough for the projectiles to land that the first and the last hit have a chance to proc outside the 0.2 second cooldown of thunder

but the wave clear of hitting people with lightning bolts was unimpressive, at least without a Jury Summons +60%, and I figure any other god would've done just as well. (At least considering how much Uncle Zeus felt like being a part of my life that run)

[cunning urchin]

@proven osprey it still works, but DPS is much slower now lol. Rolling Knuckle is much weaker than it used to be, though. It used to essentially just combo infinitely, but now there's a very noticeable delay after the Dash-Strike. And not having easy access to slowing down projectiles makes Deflects more difficult with FO2.

[silk anvil]

I could see it being a quick way to get stacks of demeter/dio on people since 5 shields = the max hangover anyway at least

[primal hazel]

Don't trash a weapon because you don't like it
Simple as that

[hearty elbow]

Wtf goddamnit, I got to Elysium before figuring out my recording bugged out when I selected options on the copied save file. Starting over (this aspect feels fine)

[proven osprey]

Yeah I see

[silk anvil]

I'm not trashing it because I dont like it, I'm trashing it because it just isn't good; or at the very least, that build wasnt good

[cunning urchin]

I would just go with Divine Strike + Divine Dash + Deadly Flourish nowadays for Deflects and to unlock Support Fire and Deadly Reversal right away from Deadly Flourish.

[torpid light]

Hey isn't this the #optimal toxicity we were just talking about lol

[primal hazel]

I'm not trashing it because I dont like it, I'm trashing it because it just isn't good; or at the very least, that build wasnt good
@silk anvil sounds like a pro gamer move from you

[silk anvil]

pro gaming is all I do, tbh, so I agree

[proven osprey]

What is the bonus for Zag aspect again ?

[calm saddle]

I would just go with Divine Strike + Divine Dash + Deadly Flourish nowadays for Deflects and to unlock Support Fire and Deadly Reversal right away from Deadly Flourish.
@cunning urchin this is a beast built that's very easy to use and put together

dodge @proven osprey

[primal hazel]

You said you've been anti shield gang
So you don't get the archetype to begin with
Don't go around saying a weapon is bad

[lethal chasm]

so like

if i get a boon on special/attack

[silk anvil]

You said you've been anti shield gang
So you don't get the archetype to begin with
Don't go around saying a weapon is bad
@primal hazel oh I get it, I just dont like it

[primal hazel]

I already had to explain to like 3 people today that chaos isn't trash

[lethal chasm]

does it make future special/attacks less likely to spawn?

[primal hazel]

I'm just done with bs today

[lethal chasm]

(doing a chaos shield run rn :D)

[silk anvil]

give me a build to make it non trash then

[lethal chasm]

doom stack athena/ares

[calm saddle]

chaos shield is pretty good lol

[silk anvil]

the burst damage isn't really there to qualify it as a burst weapon at base value, I reckon

[lethal chasm]

aphro is fine

[primal hazel]

Maybe if you wouldn't be an a hole about it

[lethal chasm]

but you can block..

if its dmg it half everything else you can still block

lol

which, its dmg isnt half

[proven osprey]

oh yeah dodge, nice

[silk anvil]

I've done nothing to insult you @primal hazel , I'm just saying the shield isn't good, and pointing out qualities of its damage output that aren't what they should be

[opal lodge]

chaos shield merciful end actually works i was surprised

[pallid drum]

massive spin or quick spin for guan yu?

[primal hazel]

The problem is you're not realizing it my man

[lethal chasm]

havent even tried merciful end but i know itd be ridic

as ive ran a lot of aphro/ares builds that smashed

so merciful end would just be absurd

[opal lodge]

@lethal chasm i thought it wouldnt work because the rate you attack with athena is too slow but boy was i wrong

[primal hazel]

You said it's objectively trash multiple times
Even though I'm hades essentially nothing is

[silk anvil]

I mean, I understand growing weary of conversations you've had with other people, but I'm not them, so I'd appreciate a bone being thrown my way

[opal lodge]

@pallid drum i would go quick spin but im not a guan yu user either haha

[primal hazel]

Why should I throw a bone your way if you are repedetly rude and dismissive

[lethal chasm]

also have had artemis chaos builds hit like 300 dmg a shieldish

[primal hazel]

I get not liking a weapon

[lethal chasm]

maybe less avg

[primal hazel]

I don't get your attitude

[lethal chasm]

but ay 1k burst and a block

[torpid light]

@silk anvil if you're genuinely interested in trying to understand other people's views, don't open with dismissiveness and then keep a condescending tone throughout the entire interaction

[dry ember]

yo just take a chill pill both, move on to something else

[lethal chasm]

SO QUESTION IF I TAKE A ATTACK BOON

[silk anvil]

I don't get your attitude
@primal hazel you were technically the first one to call the shield trash here

[lethal chasm]

DO I GET LESS ATTACK BOON CHANCE ON NEXT BOONS

IE LESS LIKELY

[violet halo]

@lethal chasm Yes

[primal hazel]

Where?

[lethal chasm]

ok thought so thx

[dry ember]

like replacement?

[lethal chasm]

yes

replacement

[violet halo]

Replacements are rare, yes

[lethal chasm]

word

[dry ember]

yeah it seems so, i don't have data or mechanic to back that statement up though

[silk anvil]

I've tried to speak at length about specifics about the weapon in its underperformance, but y'all keep making this personal

[lethal chasm]

didnt think about it but i realized it myself lol

[primal hazel]

The first interaction I genuinely didn't like In this discord
Thanks dude

[silk anvil]

I could say the same

thanks to you too

[opal lodge]

can yall please chill or take this to dms

[dry ember]

i think they are done

[primal hazel]

@primal hazel oh I get it, I just dont like it
@silk anvil that

[dry ember]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[opal lodge]

famous last words @dry ember

[dry ember]

xD indeed

[torpid light]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[proven osprey]

look at this peepo

you made him sad

[silk anvil]

@silk anvil that
@primal hazel you said I didn't understand the point of an entire weapon, kinda harsh :c

[torpid light]

kirby117101 is typing...
vo1di is typing...

[silk anvil]

anyway, since this is never going to the DMs, can someone fill me in on the purpose of shields? How much time is spent blocking? vs how much time is spent doing standard mobility combat?

clearly, I don't get it, but I'm willing to grow

[opal lodge]

just block when you think ur gonna get hit and use charge as an extra dash

to reposition

save dashes for when ur shield is still flying

[dry ember]

I don't block on zag or zeus shield

[lethal chasm]

not much in my experience but thats just how i play

[silk anvil]

and someone mentioned that blocks aren't infallible, as you could be clipped through funky physics during hades?

[lethal chasm]

i COULD train myself to block everything

[dry ember]

block don't do damage

TD is a thing

[violet halo]

That's the one thing I don't like about anything but Zeus shield, that you can't attack while your special is out 😦

[lethal chasm]

right but you dont die

[opal lodge]

you can get clipped through when hades does that weird lunge spin but thats a pretty specific interaction

[primal hazel]

Mobility through rush
Protection
Burst damage
Multiple triggers

[lethal chasm]

death = no dmg 4real

[dry ember]

except im le epic gamer

[silk anvil]

That's the one thing I don't like about anything but Zeus shield, that you can't attack while your special is out 😦
@violet halo I found I enjoyed the challenge of getting positioning down with Zeus shield

[dry ember]

I don't die

[opal lodge]

but yeah mostly its a matter of convenience if you are blocking you arent doing damage

[lethal chasm]

so guan yu is the best wep

axiomatically

lol

[dry ember]

DEBATABLE

[opal lodge]

facts

[lethal chasm]

cuz ay shouldnt die mfz

[opal lodge]

just dodge everything lol

[violet halo]

I agree, Zeus shield is by far my favourite aspect because of that. Also, it's just fun to get Poseidon or Athena on special with Zeus Aspect 😛

[lethal chasm]

i liked zeus a lot at first but chaos is funner i guess? idk

[torpid wren]

So... I been playing around with shields again and I don't know what the consensus is. But I'm feeling Zag and Zues more than Chaos.

As for the question. Shields are more for how effective the attacks and dash strikes are. Also.. I only use block when I'm mimicking one of its removed Hammers (World Smasher, I think it was called). Where you attack>hold>bullrush immedately and repeatedly and bosses will almost never hit you

[lethal chasm]

definitely a art to control the zeus shield

[opal lodge]

chaos is kind of braindead but its the one i do the best with

[silk anvil]

Mobility through rush
Protection
Burst damage
Multiple triggers
@primal hazel multiple triggers of what? are you saying the special here? or the rush can act as a trigger for different effects?

[opal lodge]

the special

[violet halo]

@torpid wren World Smasher was so broken. My first ever clear was with that hammer :p

[opal lodge]

so for example you get doom on special and impending doom/dire misfortune

stack doom multiple times

[torpid wren]

yeaaah. it was busted

[primal hazel]

Shield replicas trigger boons individually

[unkempt pagoda]

was... was it?

[dry ember]

@unkempt pagoda I was literally looking you up

show the fools the true "power" of World Splitter

[unkempt pagoda]

as far as i remember, its brief period in the game was spent being entirely outclassed by charged shot

[opal lodge]

side note im doing 400 per tidal dash to hades rn

[torpid wren]

you can still mimmick World Smasher manually to some extent though. it's just not as braindead

[opal lodge]

eris is quite a wep

[dry ember]

and the transcendental strength of it

[unkempt pagoda]

wrong World hammer, fox 😛

[torpid wren]

Piercing Shot can however be braindead

[silk anvil]

@torpid wren to your point, I do feel like the shield has a rather fast attack speed and a nice dash-attack animation, so I was considering giving Zag Shield a run for its money and leaning into somewhat ignoring special except to apply doom or lightning or something

[dry ember]

hold up what

what is World Smasher?

[torpid wren]

It's was a hammer that was removed from the game

[dry ember]

am I the dummy here

[unkempt pagoda]

cut shield hammer

[primal hazel]

If you didn't like chaos to begin with I probably can hardly convince you otherwise

[violet halo]

@silk anvil When I run Zeus Shield I throw out my special with a good AoE effect and then just go melee on everything

[torpid wren]

it's where you can win the game by holding bullrush

[unkempt pagoda]

it turned rush into a semi-automatic melee hit with 70 base damage, meaning it took away the defense and mobility of shield for a big hit

[primal hazel]

But don't go around calling it crap pls
Thank you

[silk anvil]

If you didn't like chaos to begin with I probably can hardly convince you otherwise
@primal hazel I liked old chaos; the bouncing secondary specials seemed to do a better job at distributing the boons is all I'm saying

[unkempt pagoda]

(except it existed at the same time as charged shot)

[silk anvil]

but as a single-target build, I'd have to give the "better of the two" to chiron, at least in terms of applying lightning bolt; probably even moreso now that we get that sweet sweet bonus +1 special arrow

[dry ember]

so just to be clear world smasher is no longer a thing yes?

i feel stupid now xD

[unkempt pagoda]

yep, it was removed

lol it's fine

[torpid wren]

some names are easy to mix up

[primal hazel]

but as a single-target build, I'd have to give the "better of the two" to chiron, at least in terms of applying lightning bolt
@silk anvil that's different than you're previous more negative statements
I'm 500% fine with preference
Sucks when it doesn't feel like you respect my preference tho

[violet halo]

Yeah, I keep mixing up Dionysus and Zagreus for some reason..

[torpid light]

There have to be vods of beta runs with it right?
First I'm hearing of it and it sounds pretty cool

[primal hazel]

That was my main gripe

[unkempt pagoda]

fox thought i meant world splitter, which tbf i also have various opinions on

world smasher was fine but next to charged shot, it was completely outclassed in every aspect

[primal hazel]

Yeah, I keep mixing up Dionysus and Zagreus for some reason..
@violet halo both maximum frat boys

[unkempt pagoda]

i suggested the two hammers have their base damage switched once, but it turns out sgg just wanted to remove it entirely

[silk anvil]

@silk anvil that's different than you're previous more negative statements
I'm 500% fine with preference
Sucks when it doesn't feel like you respect my preference tho
@primal hazel I really am sorry we got off on the wrong foot; but I feel strongly about statistics; I shoudl've made my stance more clear from the get-go, as well as tried a few different builds (hopefully with better synergy) before coming off as harsh as I did

[primal hazel]

Thank you

[silk anvil]

Yeah, I keep mixing up Dionysus and Zagreus for some reason..
@violet halo you listened to Orpheus' song too much, I reckon

[violet halo]

^_^

[torpid light]

In spite of queen Hera~

[silk anvil]

it's nice how the Hades dev team took into account actual lore in making Zag and Dio play that prank where they say they're the same person

[primal hazel]

Ares Attack/Demeter Attack, Zeus Special,Jolted, ideally Splitting Bolt, ideally Divine Dash or something to enable Privilege Status if you don't have Jolted is a possible build

You can also go dio/aphro/ares

[opal lodge]

yeah i didnt realize zagreus was an actual deity before this game

[primal hazel]

ME/shotgunning crits also might be an option although I have yet to try that out myself

[opal lodge]

@primal hazel is this still for chaos shield?

[silk anvil]

Ares Attack/Demeter Attack, Zeus Special,Jolted, ideally Splitting Bolt, ideally Divine Dash or something to enable Privilege Status if you don't have Jolted is a possible build

You can also go dio/aphro/ares
@primal hazel I'll give Demeter attack a try; and maybe after I'm no longer a spurned lover give Zeus a try again; but its tough when he gives you no support for your lightning boons.

[primal hazel]

Also you can do poseidon for fun
But beware: Fun only

[unkempt pagoda]

tbf, zagreus as a mythological being is... not very clear

[primal hazel]

It sucks when the gods don't want your build to succeed

[silk anvil]

as for crits on shotgun, would the damage really be there? I can't recall if the 20% applies to each projectile individually or the whole "attack"

and what is each bonus projectile worth again? 25damage?

[torpid wren]

I had a run with Zues shield with Artemis on special, and it was a real fun run. Think Zues may be my favorite of the shields if for the playstyle and damage

[primal hazel]

My theory would be with heart rend you should be able to get some decent damage

But it applies individually

As I said I'd yet to have to test that myself

It sure sounds wonky

[silk anvil]

so ideally we could expect, what, heroic crit multiplier of 2.3-2.5 on 25
so that'd go to 62.5 per pellet; plus a potential big number from the main shield

[digital mountain]

bonuses from butterfly and plume stay if you remove the trinket right?

[primal hazel]

Also you can technically go doom with stacks/ME but that's generic

[silk anvil]

bonuses from butterfly and plume stay if you remove the trinket right?
@digital mountain no, sadly

[digital mountain]

@digital mountain no, sadly
@silk anvil excuse me?!?!?!?!? lmao so ive played my last 50 runs having butterfly on tartarus for nothing lmaoooo

[primal hazel]

Basically that number times 6

Is the idea

[opal lodge]

today i learned i am generic hahaha

[primal hazel]

Also you can spam that shotgun very quickly

It just gives you carpel tunnel

[silk anvil]

Also you can technically go doom with stacks/ME but that's generic
@primal hazel One run yesterday I denied myself merciful end because I only ever saw people say "get doom on an attack; athena on dash", and I forgot to check the boon pre-reqs to find out I also needed an athena attack modifer

[primal hazel]

The difference to chiron imo is the damage rotation
With chaos you can stay close and protected if needed and spam the shields very fast

[silk anvil]

always check duo prereqs everyone; at least if you're a fool like me

[primal hazel]

But you sacrifice the distance

[opal lodge]

a lot of the athena duo prereqs require an athena attack

/special

deadly reversal does too

[primal hazel]

Chiron is interrupted by having to fire a shot every three specials

Btw I do love chiron too

You need to get used to executing Bull rush-special repeat fast

Anyways m8 sry for the interaction
Kinda got personally offended

[silk anvil]

yeah, I suppose you're right about me needing to git gud; and to quote zag, "hey, no hard feelings man" or something like that

[dry ember]

Chiron Rama is interrupted by having to fire a shot special every three specials shots.

[silk anvil]

🍹 have some knockoff ambrosia

[primal hazel]

[silk anvil]

🍯

[primal hazel]

Have the actual good stuff

Nah I don't want to say git gud

[unkempt pagoda]

Chiron Achilles is interrupted by having to fire a shot every three specials

[primal hazel]

You can keep that one

[silk anvil]

@dry ember , what's the consensus on Rama these days? does the BIG NUMBERS make up for the slow charge? do you essentially need hermes to boost the attack speed?

[primal hazel]

Imo yes
Twin shot and artemis/aphro attack

[unkempt pagoda]

rama is the best bow aspect and one of the best aspects in the game

[primal hazel]

Also I'm having some fun with chain shot

[opal lodge]

help me out a second

stygian/infernal for beowulf shield

[unkempt pagoda]

@mighty ermine just did an em4 54 heat run with it lol

[primal hazel]

It's like a shotgun
Ha
ha
h
A

[silk anvil]

I've only used it once, I liked the idea of chain shot thanks to Warlock from DOTA2, but uh... I struggled to understand what was happening in the heat of the moment

[primal hazel]

Infernal

[dry ember]

Rama is really good

[pallid drum]

Why is demeters cast so good lmao

[mighty ermine]

rama is very very good

[silk anvil]

maybe I should've tried a low heat run with Rama first to understand what's happening

[opal lodge]

crystal beam meme dreams

[dry ember]

Tail did some nutty stuff with it

[pallid drum]

I did not like rama at all

[latent sky]

Yooo any tips on how to do good with ||aspect of lucifer||?

[primal hazel]

Rama twin shot, point blank/perfect shot/explosive shot, artemis/aphro, heart rend
Copy pasta

[pallid drum]

ill stick with arthur and guan yu

[dry ember]

As for me I did a 32 heat 5 run winstreak on it

[mighty ermine]

it takes some adjustment to get used to

[primal hazel]

Yooo any tips on how to do good with ||aspect of lucifer||?
@latent sky zeus attack

All you need

[dry ember]

Tldr ra is good

[silk anvil]

does Rama chain-attack victims take extra damage from other chain attack vics taking chain attack damage?

[primal hazel]

Yes

[opal lodge]

Yooo any tips on how to do good with ||aspect of lucifer||?
@latent sky zeus on attack go brrr

[mighty ermine]

yeah, it snowballs very easily

[pallid drum]

is aspect of lucifer fun though?

[primal hazel]

If you got them groups you delete a whole room with one shot

[opal lodge]

how long does the effect last

[pallid drum]

i despise the regular rail

[opal lodge]

until death?

i think its all right

its fun

[primal hazel]

I like big laser

[opal lodge]

demeter cast RP

[latent sky]

Thanks! Idk... If it's good the special is kinda wack

[dry ember]

is aspect of lucifer fun though?
Maybe? I don't like it but plenty others think it's awesome.

[unkempt pagoda]

lucy rail is ok ig

[primal hazel]

Special is whack

[unkempt pagoda]

i find it kinda clunky and outclassed by eris

[primal hazel]

You play for attack

[silk anvil]

i despise the regular rail
@pallid drum regular rail needs a buff besides "more ammo" I'd say; especially if delta chamber takes away the bonus shots with no regard and just gives you 3 shots

[latent sky]

Gotcha. Imma try that

[primal hazel]

Well in the end everything seems to be outclassed by eris

[opal lodge]

i also dont like how it hangs until it you manual reload

[unkempt pagoda]

eris does what lucy wants to do but better

[primal hazel]

Hot take ik

[pallid drum]

@pallid drum regular rail needs a buff besides "more ammo" I'd say; especially if delta chamber takes away the bonus shots with no regard and just gives you 3 shots
@silk anvil
100%

[mighty ermine]

i really wish luci's special was easier to get off the ground or incorporate centrally into your build

it's usually super niche

[dry ember]

Regular rail keeps Spreadfire alive

[primal hazel]

I wish it wasn't trash

[unkempt pagoda]

regular rail's only saving grace is spread fire

[pallid drum]

luci special honestly is hot garbage

[silk anvil]

Regular rail keeps Spreadfire alive
@dry ember spreadfire?

[unkempt pagoda]

shotgun hammer for rail

[mighty ermine]

that was kind of my way of saying it's sort of trash, yeah lol

[primal hazel]

I like spread fire
I want lucifer with spreadfire

[unkempt pagoda]

-6 ammo, so zag rail helps it out

[primal hazel]

@dry ember spreadfire?
@silk anvil it's like a shotgun eeeey

[dry ember]

Do you 'member old SF?

I 'member

[unkempt pagoda]

old sf is what eris is now

[cunning urchin]

I think there are probably better builds than Lightning Strike on Lucifer that make good use of its Special. I'd encourage some exploring.

[silk anvil]

I haven't expirmented much with it, I just remember watching my friend use it and not seeing as many ligthning procs as we had hoped there'd be
(sigh, why does it always have to be zeus?)

[primal hazel]

But exploring is hard

[pallid drum]

its crazy how guan yu is either super busted or complete crap based on if you get hammers or not

[unkempt pagoda]

I think there are probably better builds than Lightning Strike on Lucifer that make good use of its Special. I'd encourage some exploring.
like hazard bomb!

[opal lodge]

i liked dio attack on it with ares special for luci

[unkempt pagoda]

[cunning urchin]

Guan Yu doesn't need hammers.

[primal hazel]

Mobile lava if you're out if asphodel> like hazard bomb!
@unkempt pagoda

[silk anvil]

like hazard bomb!
@unkempt pagoda only put hazard on Eris.

[dry ember]

Guan Yu doesn't need hammers.

[primal hazel]

I need something I can stand in and die

[dry ember]

GY is p hammer dependent, what you mean?

[primal hazel]

@dry ember

[pallid drum]

guan yu for sure needs hammers lmao

what?

[dry ember]

I mean it's winnable without hammer

[opal lodge]

yeah you need rapid jab /s

[silk anvil]

GY is p hammer dependent, what you mean?
@dry ember NyaaNyaa is meming and naynaying on all of us

[dry ember]

But for a decent build hammer is kinda needed?

[opal lodge]

charged skewer im guessing?

[primal hazel]

She's the expert

No hammer needed

[dry ember]

Expertd can be wrong

[pallid drum]

I mean quick spin makes it 100% better

[cunning urchin]

I'm not memeing. Obviously you'll want hammers, but that doesn't mean it's bad without.

[primal hazel]

@cunning urchin Triggered?

[mellow quest]

what do you even put on the chaos aspect shield special anymore, thunder flourish does pathetic damage because it cooldown caps instantly

[silk anvil]

I'm not memeing. Obviously you'll want hammers, but that doesn't mean it's bad without.
@cunning urchin nothing needs anything

[primal hazel]

Didn't you read the whole interaction lol

Aaaaaaaaah

[silk anvil]

but I'm still waiting on your 63 heat run 0 hammer GY

[pallid drum]

nothing is bad per say but one of the worst is for sure GY without hammers

imo

[cunning urchin]

Spin builds are bad and slow. There's your problem.

[pallid drum]

im being memed on

[silk anvil]

Its true, if you never get hit, you never need to heal

[cunning urchin]

You can beat TD3 easily even without hammers. I don't really get the issue.

[dry ember]

Nyaa: Special build Luci has potential, should explore.
Also Nyaa: Spin build GY is trash

[pallid drum]

[primal hazel]

Big Facts

[opal lodge]

just flex more please

[pallid drum]

i feel like Nyaa goes for the off meta builds

[cunning urchin]

They are bad and slow compared to what you can do with Special or Dash-Strike lol.

[mellow quest]

guan yu spin is pretty trashy when you compare it to just deleting everything with the special or dash strike

[primal hazel]

I play cast on GY(Heat 32)

[mellow quest]

like it's neat the spin heals you and all but the best healing is the kind you never have to do

[dry ember]

This is where people need to specify what heat they are doing

[silk anvil]

I play cast on GY
@primal hazel madlad; i-... isnt there no benefit to this?

[cunning urchin]

Off the meta?

Lol

[silk anvil]

>hard to be off the meta when you help define it

[dry ember]

Because this is neither bad or slow https://streamable.com/fdj77r

[hearty elbow]

I'll be the first to admit that I had an embarassment of riches but that was extremely easy. Chaos is still stupid good.

https://imgur.com/nWhNAN5

[primal hazel]

Hard to be off the meta when you are the meta

[dry ember]

at higher heat with FO2, maybe not

[hearty elbow]

Video uploading

[dry ember]

but w/o FO2, you can make spin work

[primal hazel]

I'll be the first to admit that I had an embarassment of riches but that was extremely easy. Chaos is still stupid good.

https://imgur.com/nWhNAN5
@hearty elbow thanks I needed that

[cunning urchin]

@dry ember Doomstone has no HP lol.

[silk anvil]

I'll be the first to admit that I had an embarassment of riches but that was extremely easy. Chaos is still stupid good.

https://imgur.com/nWhNAN5
@hearty elbow boy howdy that's some boon synergy. either way, nice work; I'll watch your run when it's up

[primal hazel]

Hah take that kirby

Jk

[silk anvil]

speaking of lightning; how does larger area of effect interact with - well- other lightning effects?

[unkempt pagoda]

wdym

all your bolts have a larger aoe

[primal hazel]

It gives them larger aoe

[unkempt pagoda]

don't confuse bolts with chain lightning

[dry ember]

Doomstone has no HP lol.
I can't even

[primal hazel]

Bolts≠Lightning

[silk anvil]

sorry, I'm elaborating right now, I meant "other bolt effects"

[cunning urchin]

There's no way you're beating Special or Serrated Point in DPS with a spin build lol. You're not even close.

I don't know why you're showing a non-moving Tartarus miniboss like that proves anything.

[silk anvil]

I'd like to think I'm observant, but I know I don't pay attention in the midst of a field of explosions

I presume large bolts means that if I hit a single target with a bolt, and an enemy is next to them, then that second enemy will be hit by the bolt as well..

Lets say I had a 2-shot special, and the first shot hits the first mob first; the second mob get hit by the larger AOE, and then is hit immediately by the second special shot. Would the first AOE start the timer for the "lightning can't strike twice ||at least for 0.2 seconds||" and therefore negate the bolt from the second special?
or would the 2nd bolt still proc, and then therefore hit both mobs again (both with a direct strike and then the AOE)

[dry ember]

Ok to summarize what you said:

1. You don't need hammer for a good build on GY.
2. There's no way you're beating Special or Serrated Point in DPS with a spin build lol. You're not even close.
3. Spin build GY is trash (this is a blanket statement w/o specifying heat level, btw)

Which one is it?

[hearty elbow]

You're mixing stuff up. Lighting Bolts are implemented as circles, they don't bounce, or anything

[primal hazel]

It just means the bolt aoe is bigger

[dry ember]

Give me a build that doesn't rely on hammer that can beat spin GY

[hearty elbow]

Thunder FLourish makes circles at the feet of the enemies that are hit

[primal hazel]

You're confusing bolts with lightning

Bolts are from special and dash

Lightning is attack only

[silk anvil]

You're mixing stuff up. Lighting Bolts are implemented as circles, they don't bounce, or anything
@hearty elbow , I dont mean bouncing either. I just always presume it to be more single target than AOE

[primal hazel]

And the duo and revenge also I think

[cunning urchin]

Special build doesn't rely on hammers and beats spin lol.

[primal hazel]

Its just an aoe

[cunning urchin]

Heartbreak Flourish beats spin. Easily.

[primal hazel]

Whatever stands in it gets hit

[hearty elbow]

Thunder Flourish's default range is small enough that it's very close to single target, but High Voltage gives it AoE

[primal hazel]

Its a hitbox

[silk anvil]

ah, so in my scenario: yes, AOE from one bolt will start he countdown timer till when the mob can be hit again?

[primal hazel]

Circle

[dry ember]

Heartbreak Flourish beats spin. Easily.
I really don't believe that

[silk anvil]

HOW LAME

[primal hazel]

Circle good

[silk anvil]

they really do my boi Zeus dirty with all his needed nerfs... because I know very well he'd be broken otherwise

[cunning urchin]

I don't know why you're acting like spin builds are somehow fast all of a sudden or a wide AOE special with a lot of range that requires no charge would somehow need hammers to keep up with spins lol.

[unkempt pagoda]

the cooldown doesn't affect if a foe can be hit by a bolt, it affects how many bolts can happen at all

[silk anvil]

Is it so wrong to want to explode people with 1000 dps? (thinking heroic thunder + chiron 12 shot)

the cooldown doesn't affect if a foe can be hit by a bolt, it affects how many bolts can happen at all
@unkempt pagoda wait, what? I thought bolts were a per-unit basis

[unkempt pagoda]

yeah, zag can only spit out bolts every .2 secs (on thunder flourish)

[pallid drum]

best build for hestia?

[primal hazel]

Bolts are per bolt

[unkempt pagoda]

if the aoe bolt hits two targets, that second target isn't protected from bolts for .2 secs, if you can get another bolt out (like with double strike), both bolts will hit the two targets

[silk anvil]

I could've sworn I use thunder to room clear when not focusing single targets; (eg using the bow special upon entering the room); have I just been hallucinating this whole time?

[opal lodge]

best build for hestia?
@pallid drum probably artemis on attack

go for deadly reversal with athen on special or smth

[primal hazel]

Those shrooms weren't harmless my dude

[cunning urchin]

Heartbreak Strike, Zeus' Aid, Smoldering Air for Hestia.

[dry ember]

Ok, without hammer, GY Spec does what? 45 damage + 100% from Heartbreak Flourish is 90 damage

how does that compare to a spin that does constant damage?
for the record, I am not saying spin build is optimal.
the point I am trying to make is that GY is hammer dependent.
w/o hammer GY build is just bad, worse than even the sub optimal hammer build

[cunning urchin]

Lol okay then.

[opal lodge]

must be something in the water today lol

[dry ember]

2020 has everyone on edge, understandably so.

[primal hazel]

👀

We all sad WOOOOH

[silk anvil]

I swear the lightning cooldown is per-unit; but I need to screencap this and run it through a slowmo filter, because uh, I'm either stupid or bad at math

[primal hazel]

It's per bolt

[dry ember]

why not both

[pallid drum]

hows seeking fire?

[dry ember]

just kd, love ya

[primal hazel]

Confused again

@silk anvil maybe your problem is lightning≠bolt in this games terminology

[silk anvil]

I'm talking special /secondary fire, whatever you may call it

[cunning urchin]

Guan Yu Special is essentially Explosive Launcher + Piercing for free from chamber 1. You do realize that? But I guess having one of the best spear hammers with added piercing for free is bad now.

[silk anvil]

for instance: I just put on Rama, did thunder flourish, and see the special bounce to 2~3 enemies, and then the yellow numbers on all three of them, even the furthest mob who I couldn't write off as being within the blast radius of the first thunder bolt

[dry ember]

Explosive with 5 (or 10%) less damage

[silk anvil]

of course, I also have double-bolt this run, so maybe it's that?

and on that note, does the double-bolt apply to only instances when bolt strikes? or instances in which the bolt could strike?

🤕 head hurt

[primal hazel]

0.2 seconds is 5 a second

[dry ember]

that and +Heartbreak Flourish to 90 damage.
compare that to say Massive Spin for +125% damage constant tick ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[mighty ermine]

only when it does strike

once a bolt strikes, double bolt's chance pretty much rolls at the same time

or i dunno if you mean strike as in hitting an enemy

[cunning urchin]

90 damage in a wide AOE lol.

[dry ember]

ohhhh

[mighty ermine]

because double bolt can happen regardless of hitting anything

[dry ember]

im sorry

[silk anvil]

0.2 seconds is 5 a second
@primal hazel which is why I tried to put it on rama which should have the chain go off and hit other mobs within the 0.2 seconds; but like I said, maybe I'm off with my math/timing and the time ticks faster than I give it credit for

[unkempt pagoda]

the cooldown is per bolt, and is notably on thunder flourish only

[dry ember]

because MASSIVE spin must have smaller aoe than the piercing of special

you are totally right

[unkempt pagoda]

rama special is fast but not .2 sec fast

[cunning urchin]

Yes actually lol.

[pallid drum]

how do you catch different fish im always catching the same thingsd

[unkempt pagoda]

are you getting perfect catches

[shadow ridge]

why are people on edge

[dry ember]

because others say controversial stuff

[silk anvil]

rama special is fast but not .2 sec fast
@unkempt pagoda well, between casts special attacks, sure; but I mean between bouncing between enemies; unless there's no difference

[opal lodge]

thats what i wanna know

[cunning urchin]

It does have smaller AOE.

[shadow ridge]

no nyaa you're wrong, my friend thinks arthur is amazing and GY is bad because GY removes your hp lol.

[pallid drum]

are you getting perfect catches
@unkempt pagoda
how do you get perfect catches?

[unkempt pagoda]

the time it takes to bounce is way slower than .2 secs

if it bounces you’ll get another bolt in

[opal lodge]

@pallid drum it's a timing thing

[silk anvil]

brb, gonna break out the capture software >:c

[primal hazel]

no nyaa you're wrong, my friend thinks arthur is amazing and GY is bad because GY removes your hp lol.
@shadow ridge finally we have an objective opinion

[unkempt pagoda]

perfect catches require you to catch within .3 seconds

[opal lodge]

you want to pull the line right after light

[primal hazel]

Less hp bad

[shadow ridge]

I don't agree with my friend of course

and she takes like 3 hours to decide between 3 boons

[primal hazel]

0.32?

[unkempt pagoda]

same difference

[dry ember]

less hp bad, more hp good => Arthur best

logic checks out

[primal hazel]

Well uhm no it's actually more time

[north panther]

I wish Hellfire either didn't splode when hit, or had a better pulse radius by default or something :c maybe faster pulses. I dunno, it seems just..worse than normal bomb

[hearty elbow]

Lmao SGG pls. I bricked a 45 run because I was curious if Dread Flight got fixed for Chaos. IT did not.

[shadow ridge]

I'm at 40 clears and I only have the dusa companion. Either I like dusa a lot or I did something horribly wrong

[primal hazel]

Told you don't take it

Or someone
Almost anyone lol

[silk anvil]

Lmao SGG pls. I bricked a 45 run because I was curious if Dread Flight got fixed for Chaos. IT did not.
@hearty elbow fixed for chaos? how so?

[primal hazel]

It was not

[opal lodge]

is it the ricochet that was wrong for DF

i noticed when i threw shields it would just bounce aimlessly around the room with dread flight do i stopped taking it

[primal hazel]

That's the problem

It takes hours to return

And you just chill there with no shield

Guess I'm not doing damage for the next 5 minutes then

[shadow ridge]

To be fair the dusa companion is cute. But I don't know how the progression is supposed to work. I was often shorted on nectars to give.

[hearty elbow]

Lol, in Meg's arena I counted literally 5 seconds before I could shield again

It was bouncing from far side to far side

[primal hazel]

Literally 5 minutes

[hearty elbow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzyFvlF4TuI

[opal lodge]

yeah i noticed that a lot so i just started taking the hammer that makes your special go faster when u dash

let's go

40 heat pogg

[hearty elbow]

45 Incoming as soon as Wretched Thug trials stopping wrecking my timer so hard pls stop

Stop spawning plsssss

[opal lodge]

is there going to be a high heat version of hermes cup anytime

[primal hazel]

Thanks for that run my dude
Heals my soul

I'm biased

[willow fossil]

Chaos shield bad

[dry ember]

is there going to be a high heat version of hermes cup anytime
no such plan so far, but one can hope

[primal hazel]

Bouldy says

...

[willow fossil]

Bouldy smart

...

[cloud barn]

[willow fossil]

[hearty elbow]

HOOO BOY we got there boys. Rare Rare Crop on Thunder Flourish and Static Discharge lmao

[opal lodge]

inspiring

[dry ember]

sensational

[hearty elbow]

One day I will stop taking Trials in Tartarus. Bruiser Cloner Thugs, for over 2 minutes. Making a shorter clip and posting to #test-branch-discussion

[cloud barn]

BlessRNG
https://imgur.com/a/F7QAB8D

[willow fossil]

You mean praise the fates?

[cloud barn]

true

[mighty ermine]

@hearty elbow i got that exact situation last night too lmao https://discordapp.com/channels/456889434672201729/725021448426749993/766563467553013780

[unkempt zephyr]

BlessRNG
@cloud barn Holy cow. I envy

[primal hazel]

Who have you sacrificed?

[unkempt zephyr]

but....poseidon with this)))) Blood and darkness)

[turbid needle]

quick question: are both boons in 2-boons-room elite/higher grade?
or is it both low grade or is the first one have higher rarity than the 2nd one?

[cloud barn]

I've done it
https://imgur.com/a/4UjNGWv

[spiral tree]

wow I got BAD RNG my first run of this build but stil lgot scintillating fog and at the last possible boon smoldering air and rekt EM4 hades

@cunning urchin ty

this build is sick

[unkempt pagoda]

trial rooms are just two regular boons, no difference in rarity

[spiral tree]

I didnt even get second wind

[north panther]

Does hourglass also extend the uses for things like yarn and lure? I assume not because it says "encounter" number but, I just wanna be sure

[unkempt pagoda]

it doesn't

[willow fossil]

No

[north panther]

Dang, thought not, but was hoping

[unkempt pagoda]

would be kinda unbalanced lol

hourglass is still great for the items it does work on

[north panther]

Exactly what I wanted :p

I imagine great for a cast build

[unkempt pagoda]

yep, 16-ish encounters with empowered casts/extra cast is no slouch

[north panther]

Could you theoretically get more extra casts as well at a time? I know SOME goodies stack

[solid grail]

What's a good way to build the aspect of Hades?

[north panther]

Spin attack hammers, ideally quick charge and bigger spin with more damage. I like aphrodite on attack too, or Athena cuz then you just reflect it all at once

[cloud barn]

https://imgur.com/a/WBBqAG7

finished the phase during his heal xD

[unkempt pagoda]

serrated edge/exploding launcher with any hammer (preferably quick)

Could you theoretically get more extra casts as well at a time? I know SOME goodies stack
yes

[north panther]

Dear lord its beautiful

[unkempt pagoda]

lol there are very few things in this game that can outpace 1500 hp heals every second

[lime garnet]

Man I feel bad for hades

[spiral tree]

poseidon call vs athena call

[dry ember]

Athena for me

[lime garnet]

I like athena's call personally because I can not care about getting hit for a minute but poseidon probably stacks with a poseidon-centered build

[unkempt pagoda]

both are top tier

[cloud barn]

yee

[opal lodge]

zoolander what wep was the scintillating fog one

[pallid drum]

https://imgur.com/a/WBBqAG7
@cloud barn
what even is this build

[willow fossil]

It was posted earlier

[spiral tree]

lol

can we see more gifs of hades pwnage?

[willow fossil]

What no

Lmao

[spiral tree]

pls someone

lol

WAIT

[willow fossil]

https://imgur.com/a/4UjNGWv

There you go

[spiral tree]

saying "these mortal souls are mine"....GREEN energy and hands surrounding him?

SGG are big shang tsung fans

[turbid needle]

another reason to prefer stygian soul over infernal soul
+1 cast from chaos in Stygian soul is like ton more benefit compare to infernal soul

[willow fossil]

I run infernal everytime except the 3 cast aspects

[crystal thorn]

Hey guys, so I'd say Im fairly okay at the game, but for the death of me I cannot win with the spear! Any suggestions on which aspect/build to go for to help me out?

[turbid needle]

try Demeter or Zeus on attack?
im good at spear, but i keep forgetting what build i should do to make it consistence

[dry ember]

you can try GY with Charged Skewer and Deadly Flourish, spam special

or Hades with Serrated Point, Deadly Strike, Hunter Dash, spam dash strike

[half crater]

as a fellow person who’s terrible at spear, i recommend a cast build on achilles

[dry ember]

or Achilles with Zeus or Demeter cast

[half crater]

that way, you don’t actually have to learn how to use a spear lol

[turbid needle]

tried that, i mean good damage for the first 2 world, not so much anymore on high heat and in latter world
Guan Yu just let EM4 2-3 shot you

[dry ember]

well GY spec build was the go-to for a while for high heat climb (up to 46 I believe) until Hades got a buff and people got better with it

[turbid needle]

you should try Chiron Demeter special, the damage is so good for the whole run

[half crater]

i tried demeter on chiron for a bit

it was okay, but now i’m back to deadly flourish

can’t beat the classics sometimes

[turbid needle]

i prefer crit on big boy damage, small but many shot just doesnt fit crit
unless you have like pressure point+support fire for fast weapon or something

[ivory raft]

quick question
what does holding down left click count on spear/shield
attack or special?

[brisk copper]

i believe it's still attack

special is throw in both cases

[unkempt zephyr]

quick question
what does holding down left click count on spear/shield
attack or special?
@ivory raft Spear charge spin attack. shield start block damage and after do Bull rush forward.

[willow fossil]

Holding down left click is attack

[crystal thorn]

Do I want stygian or infernal soul for a cast build with the spear?

[dry ember]

either

[willow fossil]

Id say stygian

Since spear doesn't really have a cast aspect

[mighty ermine]

Since spear doesn't really have a cast aspect
@willow fossil achilles aspect

[half crater]

yeah spear for sure has a cast aspect

[willow fossil]

Not really. Cast oriented

Like hera or poseidon I mean

Not that I cant work

[unkempt zephyr]

+150% cast damage dont look like joke.totaly

[willow fossil]

But thats also for your attack

Meh

Yall right

[still vigil]

it's totally nice fer casts with continuous hits

[opal lodge]

+150% zeus cast is some serious stuff

[half crater]

it can work for attack, for sure

but it’s better for cast imho

[willow fossil]

Never really tried it with cast

Will have to do

[still vigil]

oh!

[opal lodge]

dio cast if you like big numbers

[still vigil]

trippy shot

the diggest bick damage

[opal lodge]

just satisfying to see 4 digit numbers ykno

[lone lava]

Just tried out Rama for the 2nd time ever and damn that build was blessed

Got Twin Shot and Explosive Shot

With Dio special and Aphro attack

And Curse of Nausea, Splitting Headache, Low Tolerance and Heart Rend

[fossil compass]

Is Demeter aspect like, good? What's a good build for it?

[north panther]

Great if you get the shatter boon IMO

[fossil compass]

I'm thinking something like Athena attack and aphro special

Or Zeus attack

[turbid needle]

will picking up rolling knuckle cancel my chance of getting upper kick?

[north panther]

Good on weapons you can apply frostbite to stuff quickly as well

[tranquil violet]

Yes, Demeter is good

[north panther]

And a fun cast

[tranquil violet]

Try Demeter with Demeter attack and Ice Wine

Then just add every passive boon you can that makes chill/drunk hurt more

It's like Aura without Aura 😂

[turbid needle]

hey, will picking up rolling knuckle cancel my chance of getting upper-kick hammer upgrade?

[tranquil violet]

Everyone's moving so sloooow

[fossil compass]

Hmm, makes sense, thanks

I'm so limited in blood nowadays

And have to max out the secret aspects for the quest...

[turbid needle]

it does god dangit

[lone lava]

Demeter aspect is amazing

Zeus attack works, ME would be the best build

Ares attack, Athena special and Dash

Merciful End

Pick up Impending Doom if you find it

@turbid needle I don't see why it would?

[turbid needle]

wdym

[lone lava]

Rolling knuckle just affects your dash strike and the attack combo

[mighty ermine]

rolling knuckle and any hammers relating to the upper can't be mutually exclusive, they don't affect each other

[lone lava]

You get two hammers and afaik there's nothing preventing rolling knuckle and the special kick thing not being allowed to both go together

[tranquil violet]

There's definitely not

I've had them both together

[abstract island]

is mirage shot compatible with any of the other duo casts

[calm saddle]

rolling knuckle is my fav hammer

[tranquil violet]

AFIK none of the Duos are incompatible with one another

[calm saddle]

such a fun thing the able to add ur dash to the attack sequence

[abstract island]

that's really disappointing :( ah well

[tranquil violet]

Though their requirements may be

[mighty ermine]

actually freezing vortex and hunting blades are incompatible @tranquil violet

[abstract island]

oh I misread

[tranquil violet]

@mighty ermine really? Huh.

I guess that makes sense.

[abstract island]

I also know curse of drowning is incompatible with some other ones I think

[mighty ermine]

same with curse of drowning and blizzard shot

since they change how flood shot works in totally different ways

[abstract island]

and obviously the two glacial ones are incompatible... right?

[mighty ermine]

yeah, the crystal beam duos are incompatible as well

[unkempt pagoda]

hot take: freezing vortex and hunting blades should be compatible

[calm saddle]

does anyone think going for winter harvest is worth it?

[mighty ermine]

you're right and you should say it onyx

[tranquil violet]

@unkempt pagoda us mortals aren't ready

FV/HB with impending doom and such would be hilarious

Behold, for these are my murder circles

[unkempt pagoda]

another hot take: lambent plume timer bonus should also apply to hermes boon rarity

[robust anchor]

its been hard to like zag bow now that i tried rama

[abstract island]

Hottest take of all: the ares/aphro and ares/athena boons shouldn't be anti-synergetic like they are

[mighty ermine]

same lol

[tranquil violet]

Extra spicy take: Chaos Trio boons which reverse or swap out effects.

e.g. Poseidon + Aphrodite + Chaos = knockback and weak effects get swapped on all boons

Would be pretty dumb

But potentially amusing

Zeus lightning that inflicts doom

[abstract island]

actually genuinely unpopular take: ||superdad is too easy, he's not unfair enough||

[left peak]

https://i.imgur.com/ZQSKywV.png

What's the recommendation here guys

I have basic bow

[tranquil violet]

Hard to say not knowing what you already have

[gusty parcel]

^

[north panther]

Dem has pretty high damage but yeah dunno what else you got/are going for

[abstract island]

probably the attack tbh unless you have an artemis build already set up

[left peak]

I have piercing volley and aretmis aid

[robust anchor]

zag bow? take 1

[tranquil violet]

I'd personally keep piercing volley and get marking for crits

[left peak]

Frost strike?

[tranquil violet]

And then take Demeter attack to inflict those crits on marked enemies

[robust anchor]

wait how much blood you put into zag bow

[edgy delta]

how do you unlock the guns?

[left peak]

I didn't put any

I didn't realize you can put blood in it

So guys

Frost Strike or what?

[north panther]

Frost strike

[tranquil violet]

I would go frost strike and try to get Marked on your special

[left peak]

Alirght

[tranquil violet]

So you can mark and then do big frosty crits

[north panther]

If only mark worked on singular targets (IE bosses)

[tranquil violet]

Bosses usually have goons

So that's not too much of an issue

[north panther]

Yeah but not enough of em

I guess Thesius is a big enough goon to count tho

[mighty ermine]

theseus and asterius are just two very big goons

[tranquil violet]

Asterius did nothing wrong

[north panther]

Asterius is a nice lad

Nice-ish

[mighty ermine]

true, i rescind the goon comment from asterius

theseus you are still a verified goon

[tranquil violet]

Would be funny if eventually their boss battle changed to "Asterius and Theseus" or back and forth

Poor Lernie

Look at how they massacred my boy

[north panther]

I was hoping Lernie would start talking or something for real, out of nowhere

[left peak]

https://i.imgur.com/HxpD8YS.png

Just got this boon

What should I pick here

[tranquil violet]

Ehhh, honestly I'd just pick one I don't care about much to get Zeus into my pool for Duos

But idk

[north panther]

Zeus boon of vengance with Ares is pretty fun

But it takes a bunch to even get it to show up

[tranquil violet]

Thunder Flourish can also be fun for room clearing