#h1-builds-and-combat
pallid dagger
solid hazel
Rush delivery I don't know either
pallid dagger
i've been trying for both of these all freaking run
now you hand them both to me at the very last minute?
evil
solid hazel
I'm speculating, but I think it takes any movement speed you have and makes it an additive buff
Although the text is inconsistent in this game I might as well be guessing
hybrid wave
so at 100% 'lasting consequences' can you just not heal unless you get the demeter boon that increases healing?
hybrid wave
sure but those are basically lives anyways
solid hazel
Errm I think somebody said cursed slash and gy spin still work also
But not draining cutter
Like i said consistency
hybrid wave
huh that's weird - interesting
still vigil
Wow I just got a 1.2k maim tic
solid hazel
Nice @still vigil
still vigil
Discoveries like this are nice
pallid dagger
i mean it's not the worst thing ever! i did win with it once
i'm still mad about twin shot and explosive shot (mostly twin shot) though. which i suppose isn't rama's fault.
....would be nice to make things go more zoom zoom fast tho
solid hazel
Those can be strong... You just gotta get right in their face which can be dangerous too
pallid dagger
explosive shot and twin shot both deal damage in accordance with the charge, so getting right in their face keeps your damage on the low end
trust me i tried.....it hurt more than it helped.
solid hazel
Oh yeah...i can see that
still vigil
That sounds rough
I didn’t mind twin shot’s drawback as much cause I paired it with poseidon and the repulse wave
And arty too
pallid dagger
........bounty limit reached??? what the hell???
....okay i guess i'm doing rama later
sonic merlin
Finally killed Dad, only took Athena's legendary 😩
pallid dagger
what's a good build for Beowulf?
willow fossil
Ares
unkempt zephyr
Dio cast + 2 duos
pallid dagger
i mean that's fairly typical of me
unkempt zephyr
But with stygian soul
pallid dagger
anybody got anything that works especially well for beowulf? my usual hera copies don't get me very far
solid hazel
I like aphro with infernal soul
Second highest damage and don't have to wait for Dio cloud to disperse
still vigil
Now that i think on it has anyone tried athena cast for anything?
pallid dagger
i was going to try it for the hera cast but, alas, "bounty limit reached"
i went for a cast run with lightning phalanx. one of those "technically worked really well, but not all that funtastic" things
still vigil
Sounds like my chaos runs
solid hazel
I've played Athena cast on hera bow... Was okay but felt strictly inferior to Dio or posiedon
pallid dagger
it's a reasonably powerful cast, but there's no reason to take it over, say, dio or aphro
i need new, super fun things to do that aren't dio or poseidon
solid hazel
I've played Athena cast with Poisedon too with similar results...fine but nothing special
pallid dagger
i posted a victory on poseidon hera yesterday, it just....it's too op. so beautiful.
this is the problem with loving hades as much as i do
eventually i figure out all the things i like, and then i just snub my nose at the rest
loud latch
are all dmg boost additive in this game?
solid hazel
eventually i figure out all the things i like, and then i just snub my nose at the rest
@pallid dagger that's actually a complaint I have with the Hades community at large
are all dmg boost additive in this game?
@loud latch no it's kinda complicated
Most things are additive but a few are multiplicative
pallid dagger
i think skull earring is said to work really well with positive outlook
solid hazel
Crits is the most common, the hammer upgrades that have the word charged in them
loud latch
i mean yeah crit obv
still vigil
I was peepin at it cause I know I tend to stay at low health so it might be fun to see what kinda of damage I can output on malphon
willow fossil
eventually i figure out all the things i like, and then i just snub my nose at the rest
Approval process fixed this for me
still vigil
Specifically my fave Gilgamesh
pallid dagger
bleh
alright so
i used to have olympian favor and god's pride until i switched favor to dark foresight
should i switch pride to legacy, too?
i would love to have more luck getting my ult boons, but like....i just can't deal with getting common-level boons when there's such a gap among rarities.
willow fossil
Same
And tbh, 10% didnt feel like it made a difference for me
And yeah rare/epic boons are more common and totally worth it imo
robust anchor
whats the shot per second on rail
loud latch
aphro special on chiron or is something else recommended?
robust anchor
yes aph or some like art too
stuck bobcat
Maybe not the best idea but...
Take Rama. Double Shot and Explosive shot are ideal for it...
While fighting hades: apply weak + exposed + shared suffering + crystal
Use hades aid from keepsake -> move behind hades
Full charge double explosieve standing still shot from rama
Look at 15k+ dmg
barren bridge
hey guys, is family favorite better for the bow? am I right that family favorite's max is +25%?
pallid dagger
robust anchor
i am very skeptical of priv status a lot of the time
stuck bobcat
depends on build
pallid dagger
privileged status is really easy to use, downright necessary when you're having a bad run
and for a 40% damage increase....yowza
marsh pumice
family favorite all the way 
marsh pumice
Poseidon dash 
pallid dagger
you can only have 5 olympians' boons. +5% damage x 5 = a maximum of 25% damage across the board versus an easy 40% increase on an individual basis.
still vigil
Ofc what’s there not to like about athens dash
cunning urchin
Normal hits:
"Base Damage" * (1 + "Damage") + "Bonus Damage"
Critical hits:
"Base Damage" * (1 + "Damage") * (3 + "Critical Damage") * (1 + "Bonus Critical Damage") + "Bonus Damage"
@loud latch
stuck bobcat
privileged status is so easy to apply, there's no reason to not use it if you can. Only status-less builds benefits more from family favorite
plus while having multiple gods on you are kinda asking yourself to get f..ed by RNGesus
pallid dagger
poseidon dash deserves props just for standing on the same level as athena dash
barren bridge
I see very polarized opinion about that tier, I'm never sure what to take.
willow fossil
It depends what you're planning to do
still vigil
Well Hades allows fer a lot of play so 🤷🏾♂️
willow fossil
I run approval so I cant really take privileged status, but honestly both are good
still vigil
I’d cry if i ran approval
stuck bobcat
athena dash outclasses every dodge in the game in every aspect
way to many synergies, reflect, doom duo, 100%+ exposed dmg
Sorry to say it, but it is waay to busted
pallid dagger
plus poseidon's dash can trigger sea storm, which.......blows every last other thing outta the water.
barren bridge
I run approval so I cant really take privileged status, but honestly both are good
@willow fossil plz remind me what is approval
willow fossil
I'm not running approval process right now to get the aphrodite favorz and it feels hella weird having this much freedom, I dont like it 
cunning urchin
Just letting you guys know that Family Favorite is the meta for both high heat and speedruns.
pallid dagger
crazy damage for a dash, it knocks foes away in a good radius....delicious.
solid grail
With aspect of Arthur would you guys say it's worth it to get the defensive aura Daedalus hammer? The one that increases the area and the slow. It always seems to appear as a choice alongside the option that increases attack damage against armour by 400% so I normally take that one.
willow fossil
@willow fossil plz remind me what is approval
You have less choices per boon, at tier 2 you only have 1 choice per boon, approval process is called
marsh pumice
meta... meta everywhere 
willow fossil
Screw metas
pallid dagger
can't care less about metas (what the hell are metas)
stuck bobcat
@solid grail aura + backstab damage are best options for arthur
willow fossil
Meta is whats "op"
pallid dagger
well in that case i don't care about high heat or speedruns
pallid dagger
most effective tactic available? "yeah it's--" shut up it's sea storm
it's always sea storm, full stop
willow fossil
Lmfao
solid grail
@stuck bobcat Ah ok thanks
cunning urchin
Meta always changes, but it's good to keep an eye on what's been giving the best results so far.
pallid dagger
nah nah can't hear you, shilling sea storm too hard
sea storm on the hera bow? both curses and legendaries?
i just blink and everything pops like weasels
where is my sea storm crowd i need some fs for every poor satyr that crossed me the other day
loud latch
what gives the best results in the last 3 mirror talents? i never rlly know and it always feels bad to decide for one
cunning urchin
Dark Foresight and Persuasion for sure.
pallid dagger
Fated Authority will really help runs go your way.
loud latch
okay thats what i took most of the time
how much does persuasion go to?
5k darkness last tier?
marsh pumice
Olympian Favor, Gods' Pride, Fated Authority that what I use
cunning urchin
No idea how much Persuasion costs now. Sorry.
cunning urchin
Wiki might be up to date on that, no idea.
loud latch
yeah imma check thx anyways
unkempt zephyr
@cunning urchin some one go to sleep btw
pallid dagger
cunning urchin
I maxed Persuasion ages ago.
willow fossil
Same
cunning urchin
They reduced costs for the mirror overall in 1.0, I think, so those numbers might be outdated.
willow fossil
Yeha i got a crap ton of darkness back when 1.0 came out
pallid dagger
4 dice? that's it?
willow fossil
Persuasion yes
pallid dagger
you get 8 on authority
willow fossil
It gives you 4
But they behave differently so have to balance
Also you still have keys to pump that number
cunning urchin
1 Persuasion reroll does a lot more than 1 Authority reroll, yeah.
loud latch
does athena zeus duo scale with cast dmg?
cunning urchin
But I know experienced players who swear by Authority and can't stand Persuasion.
loud latch
certainly right
willow fossil
I feel like my opinion never matters cause i run approval process
cunning urchin
40+ Heat at least it's all Persuasion due to various factors like UC AP etc.
I don't know anyone who picks Authority for that.
pallid dagger
alright
putting that to one side
tell me your ideas for prospective Hera and Apollo builds
still vigil
Apollo?
pallid dagger
mhm
still vigil
That an aspect or somethin?
cunning urchin
I've always just run Crush Shot on Hera.
lost merlin
What's a good build for the gun? Every time I use it it just feels weird and not that good
cunning urchin
bro
lost merlin
I like all of the weapons except it
pallid dagger
zeus and poseidon work well on the gun
cunning urchin
I'm a girl.
pallid dagger
edited, my mistake
still vigil
Did you call me bro? ew 😂
marsh pumice
why not brosis
still vigil
I’ll take it
cunning urchin
Lightning Strike is the one true Rail build.
still vigil
Reminds me of osmosis
marsh pumice
Dio strike Rail with delta chamber
pallid dagger
given how hyperion already exists in attendance to the sun, i imagine supergiant would probably play apollo up as a musical god or a medicine god
shadow ridge
cunning urchin
Or as an off-screen god who is mentioned in passing.
pallid dagger
hera's domain of marriage doesn't translate to combat well but in some traditions she shared weather powers with zeus, so she could grant wind boons
torpid wren
i need to see what a good rail run looks like...
i mean i could finish it.. but it takes over 30 mins, lol
cunning urchin
A good Rail run looks like Eris + Lightning Strike + pew pew pew.
You can add Support Fire if you like.
torpid wren
Alright. Which one is worth pumping all the blood in. Eris or Hestia?
pallid dagger
Eris is the speedrunner trick
Hestia can work well if you train yourself to reload a lot
cunning urchin
Hestia is #1 at boss fights.
shadow ridge
I haven't bothered with any of the gun aspects since the base gun is very underwhelming to me
I'll give it a go
torpid wren
I'm guessing Hestia's flowchart is shoot.reload.shoot.reload
gusty parcel
Sometimes shoot prereload or a little bit post reload.
cunning urchin
If you're standing still when you press Reload, you can't move during the reload.
If you're already moving, though, you can keep moving.
Not the most elegant design, but I imagine they had some difficulty with the animation perhaps?
untold iris
how is heavy knuckle on fists?
willow fossil
What else do you have?
untold iris
i dont really use them that much so im not sure what I should be taking for my first hammer
right now?
athena dash
thats it
this is the third room
untold iris
I have quake cutter, heavy knuckle, flying cutter as the three options
untold iris
im using zag fists
willow fossil
Yesh it should be good
cunning urchin
Flying Cutter.
untold iris
i feel like im pressing punch a lot so im not sure how good buffing special is
marsh pumice
I hate heavy knuckle it's just too slow
willow fossil
If you're into special flying cutter is food
untold iris
yeah thats the one thing that makes me unsure about how good heavy knuckle is
wait does heavy knuckle work on dash strike?
no right?
still vigil
It’d be cool if there was a god that focuses on buffs in the form of songs maybe? Like a bard perhaps
Or maybe has a curse called blister that increased inflicted dmg the longer you hit them
hazy slate
it doesnt i think
untold iris
so its basically useless then
cunning urchin
Heavy Knuckle is decent, but it might be difficult if you don't have a lot of experience with Malphon.
untold iris
right now my fist runs are just mashing dash strike and hoping that works
so far its been successful when I have athena dash
still vigil
How does rush kick and the hammer that does an aoe after the special interact with each other?
willow fossil
Athena dash makes life easier
unkempt pagoda
don't think they're incompatible
i imagine it works like you think it does
after you kick, you land and do an aoe burst
still vigil
Oh
cunning urchin
Flying Cutter is actually pretty good. Might help you focus a bit more on playing deliberately with Malphon instead of just mashing Dash-Strike lol.
willow fossil
Yep
cunning urchin
Although tbh when 41 was still WR with Malphon, mashing Dash-Strike was exactly what I did lol.
But Hunter Dash and Support Fire were a lot better then.
willow fossil
cunning urchin
And Deflects did way more damage to bosses.
willow fossil
Mash dash strike with athena wins games
cunning urchin
I had Divine Strike and Hunter Dash, yeah.
- Deadly Reversal + Support Fire
That's literally all I used every run back then lol.
unkempt pagoda
did they ever fix deflect damage not working on the heroes
unkempt zephyr
Max Malphon in world 41 heat?
still vigil
So! What do I do with Ares as a whole? Cause he...just doesn’t do it fer me
cunning urchin
"Mewmew Special" (I didn't name it that lol.)
@unkempt zephyr yeah, that was sometime early this year.
unkempt zephyr
Looks like i have a target now with claws.)
cunning urchin
@unkempt pagoda I actually don't know. Haven't paid attention to that.
They fixed Uppercuts not backstabbing, anyway. Very happy about that.
unkempt zephyr
They fixed Uppercuts not backstabbing, anyway. Very happy about that.
@cunning urchin REALY????Dash back stabing?
that was insane....
cunning urchin
@unkempt zephyr max heat Malphon is 50 now lol.
unkempt zephyr
@unkempt zephyr max heat Malphon is 50 now lol.
@cunning urchin 😭
willow fossil
Lmfao yeah
worldly trellis
I put all my bloodstones into Beo, then my Chaos boon of +1 cast triggered
willow fossil
That also happens when you pick a cast boon while you have your stones loaded
It fixes right after your exit the room tho
solid hazel
Literally unplayable
junior harbor
any ways to optimize darkness farming besides taking fated persuasion and taking every chaos deal?
stuff with RNG manipulation?
untold iris
start with poseidon
unkempt zephyr
any ways to optimize darkness farming besides taking fated persuasion and taking every chaos deal?
@junior harbor poseidon+ chaos and Zero heat.chests
solid hazel
Yeah run Poisedon for the oceans bounty
junior harbor
Yep.
junior harbor
I've seen videos of Chaos aspect being thrown in a nova, rather than in a spread in front of you. How is this done?
still vigil
Old chaos
junior harbor
ah
unreal hull
With the patch, Fiery Presence more optimal to run or still majority Shadow?
worldly trellis
I would imagine shadow will always be more optimal in most cases
just bc its a constant effect
whereas fiery is a one time thing per enemy
im not a math guy or anything
just seems to make sense that way
unkempt pagoda
fiery is way more niche than shadow
rugged wave
Can I get a guan yu build?
unkempt pagoda
even if it has a bigger boost, shadow works with many more builds than fiery does
worldly trellis
Only thing I really take Fiery on is Hestia
proven osprey
Fiery on Hestia is funny
unkempt pagoda
in contrast, there are very few builds in the game that rely on a single hit
worldly trellis
I'm trying it on Beo rn but the problem is that only the dragon rush gets the bonus
proven osprey
But on bosses...
unkempt pagoda
even excal's biggest damage comes from the third hit in the combo, so unless you're swinging it right when enemies are spawning...
proven osprey
this is what I'm doing tbh
unkempt pagoda
Can I get a guan yu build?
divine strike spin build, aphro or arty special with charged skewer, serrated point (powerful but very unsafe, especially with the hp loss)
gusty parcel
It makes you take more damage.
stark ore
Think it's around 5x more damage
proven osprey
it would be fair if it was 40%
unkempt pagoda
it's double damage
cinder flower
what's probably the best fist aspect right now?
stark ore
Either Demeter or Hidden
Comes down to personal preference, both are really solid however
worldly trellis
ME?
unkempt pagoda
merciful end
unkempt pagoda
every 12 hits you get to delete someone off the map
unkempt pagoda
aphro or artemis on special, aphro has the biggest raw damage modifier and artemis for obvious reasons
combine with explosive upper for an aoe delete button
still vigil
I made a mistake
And put poseidon on fist attack
Now everything is bouncin off walls
unreal hull
get that wall damage boon 
still vigil
I did
This is chaos😂
Also got that hit dodge thingy boon with lambent plume and greater reflex
First time I got hit was theseus fight
unreal hull
I just did a sword run with the multiple bounce, dash push, attack push, and wall damage. Pretty silly. Seemed to be more effective just to dash at foes instead of attack.
still vigil
It depends on the weapon and which part of it yer usin
Cause some just give shenanigans
Others make sure they wipe they floor clean
Like poseidon on cluster rockets
pearl rain
Is it weird how I still find the sword to be the better pick?
still vigil
Mhm
pearl rain
In my case it's a little weird, because i consider Stygius as Zag's main weapon, because lol trailer
unkempt pagoda
hot take: zag's signature/promotional weapon should've been the spear
pearl rain
ooooo
worldly trellis
why tho
pearl rain
how so?
unkempt pagoda
it's his dad's weapon
unkempt pagoda
plus his teacher is the spear user
worldly trellis
yea but its not as cool looking imo
willow fossil
sword fits him just fine
worldly trellis
maybe if default spear was hades aspect
runic cypress
I mean he did say it was a hot take kekw
unkempt pagoda
also i'm tired of protag sword users
pearl rain
How many people here are fans of Zagreus?
still vigil
same
worldly trellis
but I think the sword suits him better because he isn't trying to emulate his father. He wants to be as far detached from him as possible.
unkempt pagoda
"main character uses sword" syndrome
worldly trellis
can you imagine how insane the trailers would be if the rail was his signature weapon
pearl rain
@worldly trellis Same here. The only reason why I don't use the spear is because I think Zagreus wouldn't wish to use his father's stuff to advance as a person
worldly trellis
Well I mean, storywise I like to think of it that way, but if I were you I wouldn't let that stop me from using the weapon entirely
its pretty fun
runic cypress
speaking of gameplay
been trying out the gilgamesh claws
interesting
feel like it would have fit Beowulf better though
worldly trellis
They seem dope, the only reason I don't use them is because Im a keyboard player
runic cypress
since he LITERALLY KILLED A DRAGON WITH HIS BARE HANDS
like
that isn't lore in game
worldly trellis
dash-specialing on keyboard is stupid hard for me but I dont wanna rebind just for one weapon
willow fossil
They seem dope, the only reason I don't use them is because Im a keyboard player
why?
runic cypress
and im keyboard as well
willow fossil
wait i just read nvm
worldly trellis
I should clarify, dash specialing in the direction I want is hard for me
runic cypress
o h
worldly trellis
controller is definitely superior for directional controls
willow fossil
not imo
runic cypress
eh I don't find it too hard? but its definitely easier on controller for sure though
worldly trellis
ya I'm just so used to KBM at this point I don't really feel like relearning the game on controller
runic cypress
lol
worldly trellis
plus Im partial to ranged weapons and those feel way better with a mouse
willow fossil
i tried a few runs with controller on hades, and is a big nono for me
mad respect to consoler players, idk how yall do it'
still vigil
I’ve only played games on controller so it felt supa fluid to pick it up on the switch
worldly trellis
I think if you're not already used to KBM, controller is the way to go
obvs its personal preference but
being able to dash in any direction is huge
still vigil
Wait I lied. I played ffxiv on kbm but that’s about it
willow fossil
being able to dash in any direction is huge
you cant do this with controller?
worldly trellis
Thats ironic because FFXIV has a really good controller layout
still vigil
I’ve done both on that one
worldly trellis
@willow fossil No, I meant the opposite
still vigil
Rebinding fer controller was a pain in the rear tho
worldly trellis
because to dash up and to the right I have to hit 3 keys simultaneously
to do it on controller I just point and hit A
worldly trellis
its not a big difference for everyone, that kinda stuff just bugs me
willow fossil
yeah thats understandable
fossil compass
I got 16 blood to spend, any suggestion if the fist/disc/railgun aspects are particularly good?
Been getting fine with zag aspect for those
worldly trellis
Hestia is broken, Lucifer is fun
still vigil
What’s fun to you?
worldly trellis
by disc do you mean shield?
worldly trellis
I dont find it annoying. Its actually pretty satisfying.
still vigil
Do ya like stayin away or gettin up close
worldly trellis
You reload every shot, sure, but you one-shot almost everything
unkempt pagoda
you get used to it
worldly trellis
at least up until elysium
still vigil
Cause gettin used to something and havin fun with it are two different things
worldly trellis
You have fun with it once you get used to it, thats the idea
fossil compass
Away, I'm too bad to play up close
still vigil
Masochist i see
fossil compass
The only way I could make fists work is to use Athena deflect on weapon and dodge chance
worldly trellis
cant make an omelette without torturing yourself for a couple hours :)
or however the saying goes
still vigil
Ummm
worldly trellis
im kidding
still vigil
Ikik
willow fossil
cant make an omelette without torturing yourself for a couple hours :)
wtf lmfao
fossil compass
150 base damage hestia
still vigil
See I find the fists fun cause i like being up in someone’s face but I hate the shield cause it feels...passive to me?
worldly trellis
anyway @fossil compass if you prefer ranged and dont wanna get accustomed to Hestia, Lucy is probably my favorite aspect in the game
fossil compass
That's multiplied by boons? So can go up to 300 with boon?
Ah I don't have the locked aspect yet
worldly trellis
I hate the shield cause it feels...passive to me?
Try Beo and tell me shield is passive LOL
still vigil
That one is the exception
pearl rain
so KBM is generally not the ideal way to play the game?
still vigil
Not the standard fer shield play
willow fossil
is preference really
still vigil
XD
worldly trellis
It's entirely up to preference, but SGG themselves recommend controller
willow fossil
i cant play this game with controller
fossil compass
This is the last injection of blood I have, I've done all the prophecies that give blood
unkempt pagoda
passive
become a super bow with minotaur rush
fossil compass
So Hestia... Is the Zeus aspect worth anything?
tight grove
Me on Styx with Stubborn Defiance and the Health Regeneration boon, purposefully killing myself in the last chamber before I hate to fight Hades and then waiting 5 minutes so I can go fight him with full health
languid marten
So bow special damage was reduced back to pre 1.0 damage eh?
willow fossil
they all are
still vigil
Beo Im not fond of cause cast builds I’m...ambivalent on
willow fossil
all aspect are worth
worldly trellis
Zeus shield? Its one of the best ways to stack curses IIRC
haven't used it much but it seems interesting
tight grove
Anyone know that feel
worldly trellis
I haven't taken stubborn defiance in a long time
tight grove
Killing yourself on purpose while there's still one enemy on the room so you can regen slowly back to full health
fossil compass
Guess I'll give Hestia a try, and give up if I don't like it. Should refund my blood right
worldly trellis
but ya thats the strat with it
fossil compass
What's a good build to go with it?
worldly trellis
Aphro or Arti attack
unkempt pagoda
aphrodite or artemis attack
worldly trellis
Take butterfly once youre comfortable with it
willow fossil
cant never go wrong with art
worldly trellis
you can hit 40%+ by styx easily
willow fossil
crits = dmg
glass kelp
I have 60 ambrosia rn, I could upgrade all the companions to full or max out just one and turn the rest into blood, what do you guys recommend?
unkempt pagoda
hunter dash or divine dash, really all you need
mellow quest
i got up to 160% movespeed between boons, plume and well items
still vigil
Who hunter dash
mellow quest
didn't get the bonus damage based on movespeed though
unkempt pagoda
i'd upgrade all the companions tbh
languid marten
Hunter dash is arti
glass kelp
I have all of them unlocked, but about half of them are only level 1
worldly trellis
Who's boon is it? Hunter Dash is Arti @still vigil
fossil compass
Thanks all, will try it
unkempt pagoda
getting all the blood needed for weapons can be easily done without trading away your entire stock of ambrosia 😛
fossil compass
Aphrodite or arti attack and just spam multiplier I guess
tranquil violet
I just realized
That there is one special duo for (most) of the casts
That helps keep track of the possible duos a lot more
worldly trellis
@fossil compass if you get offered Ricochet Shot, TAKE IT
mellow quest
there are a fair number of weapons that are sort of 1 point wonders anyhow
like hera bow
still vigil
I’ve been tryin to get aphro legend on fists but she’s like “haha no”
unkempt pagoda
That there is one special duo for (most) of the casts
for many there's two
glass kelp
yeah, but the only use for ambrosia left for me is Hypnos bond once I cycle enough dialogue, maxing out the companions and decorative themes/rank
tranquil violet
Athena: Lightning Phalanx
Ares: Hunting Blades
Dionysus: Ice Wine
Demeter: Crystal Clarity
Poseidon: Blizzard Shot
God whose cast you have: Duo depending on that cast
unkempt pagoda
those latter 4 all have a second cast morph too lol
unkempt pagoda
(lightning phalanx is also based on athena cast)
tranquil violet
Whoops typo there
unkempt pagoda
Ares: Freezing Vortex
Dio: Scintillating Feast
Demeter: Cold Embrace
Poseidon: Curse of Drowning
ornate prawn
so what's good heat options for a player who's just looking to crank it up one by one and can't reliably clear final boss yet?
tranquil violet
Ah good to know.
ornate prawn
right now i've been taking DC1 most times and tight deadline 1 on others
glass kelp
tight deadline 1 is pretty much free, EM1 and possibly 2 should also not be much of a problem, damage control 1 too unless you're doing a hestia run or something
opal lodge
Benefits package isnt bad
lethal chasm
yoyo whats the scoop on shield of chaos specials
opal lodge
middle management is hard but i personally think its fun
lethal chasm
idk what to put on it i always go w doom and hope for stacks
opal lodge
yep thats what i do
if im feeling daring i put dio special and ares attack
hope for the duo
lethal chasm
werdd
opal lodge
yall zeus cast is unironically good on achilles spear
oblique raft
What aspect of the shied should i go with?
lethal chasm
ye i think i saw haelian say its one of the best starter
chaos
or beowulf
zeus if u feel it
still vigil
You use zeus cast?
lethal chasm
ive never used it once lol
oblique raft
just pick one for me to use for this run
lethal chasm
beowulf gogo
still vigil
I side eye it cause I’m not sure what to do with it
lethal chasm
me too haha i heard it suffers on bosses
opal lodge
zeus cast is only good on achilles bc of the 250% damage increase
just throw one out after spear and it clears a room
LOL
opal lodge
ah the blizzard shot cast?
lethal chasm
yea
it's like a better blade rift
with freeze
or maybe i just had high level flood shot
but yea crazy dmg
but it doesnt stick in
hence like ares
sonic merlin
Oof, offered Spread Fire, Flurry Fire, and Piercing. Eris Gun and I already have the rocket special hammer.
Piercing maybe? I need flurry for prophecy though.
lethal chasm
i forget what flurry is
opal lodge
definitely not spread on eris
sonic merlin
Higher attack speed
lethal chasm
spread rocket is one of the best builds
no
disagreed
shoot urself on the wall
rockets shotgun
sonic merlin
Piercing is probably best but I do need flurry for prophecy so..
sonic merlin
6 extra ammo higher attack speed
lethal chasm
id go w that period lol i dont usually go for pierce
tawdry elbow
so, I've heard that chos shield was pretty OP, just finished a 10 heat run with this and felt pretty meh, any good build for that aspect?
oblique raft
if you don't have the profecy, do the profesy
lethal chasm
i just asked
haha.
only one ive tried is doom stacking
w aphro ares duo
oh artemis too
can get super good w chaos specials
i heard zeus was good but idk..?
seems good for tartarus
lol
dio is ok cuz u have insta 5 stack
lethal chasm
yea im in the middle of one rn
opal lodge
so you can run merciful end
tawdry elbow
I ended up doing artemis and ares duo run
lethal chasm
aphro on attack ares on special
ye
always safe bet
fall back on hunting blades
hopefully
_>
lol
opal lodge
@lethal chasm i did that but turns out athena/ares is better dmg
lethal chasm
hm rly
lethal chasm
ohh word
opal lodge
athena ares is better
lethal chasm
yee i forget it exists lolo
opal lodge
or special
opal lodge
yeah its pretty good
i used that one all the way up to like 18 heat without issues
its nice with the aphro debuffs too
jaunty locust
so for the demeter "when you have no bloodstones, you deal more damage" boon
that counts if they're all loaded into a bow, right?
so I can load them all into hera, and then flourish on chumps
cold mason
is athena attack the usual attack buff chosen for high heat?
sorry, for demeter fists I mean
opal lodge
yeah i think just to get merciful end
unkempt pagoda
so for the demeter "when you have no bloodstones, you deal more damage" boon
that counts if they're all loaded into a bow, right?
yes, when loaded the ammo count says 0/x
cold mason
did the talos buff make it better than demeter? I know some people swear by it
onyx parcel
Hestia is actually so fun
Eris is just straight up damage... boring
Hestia tho
The sniper playstyle
So fun
So much boss damage
cold mason
i always use the basic zagreus on exagryph tbh
onyx parcel
Ur missing out
Missing out on big boy damage
How much did talos additional damage get buffed for???
Also did the net damage on Chiron special stay the same?
mighty ermine
talos went from +40% to +50%
onyx parcel
talos went from +40% to +50%
@mighty ermine is it worth it now
Compared to Demeter
50 is pretty big I ain’t even gonna lie
calm saddle
I'm gonna try a Demeter run when I get home
def seems op if u pair with Aphrodite Dionysus or Demeter curse
mighty ermine
i would say it's definitely still not worth it, in terms of my own personal preference
i know some players like talos though, so that's cool
i still just prefer demeter aspect
onyx parcel
Aww why not
unkempt pagoda
chiron change still is a nerf, just not as big as it would've been
cold mason
is there a consensus on what's the best call rn? I figure it's gotta be one of the a's; aphrodite, ares or artemis. but yeah
mighty ermine
i don't think any of those three you listed would be contenders for absolute best call
cold mason
what why
unkempt pagoda
the best call is smouldering air pos, athena, or dio
cold mason
oh right forgot about athena. why dionysus tho?
mighty ermine
huge damage
cold mason
it's not. i've done the math.
unless we mean on mobs
group damage maybe idk but single target it's mediocre
unkempt pagoda
worse call is sigil 💔
cold mason
oh yeah that call blows
but yeah i'm confused about the dionysus thing. are we counting it vs mobs i guess?
I always forget to use it outside of bosses tbh lmao
unkempt pagoda
600 damage per lesser call is pretty good
mighty ermine
no yeah, with dio you avoid greater
because it will keep trying to stack hangover on targets that are full
cold mason
Yeah. That's fair enough then.
mighty ermine
with dio you want to regularly use lesser
cold mason
My bad haha I was like wtf
unkempt pagoda
plus it gives you both i-frames and full self-control
cold mason
dio gives impervious?
unkempt pagoda
all calls give a small amount of i-frames on pop, making them effective panic buttons
compare to something like ares, which gives you longer i-frames but no self control (damage isn't too great either)
cold mason
Ohh true. Neat
Ares' damage is fantastic on greater IF (and only if) you land every hit. But yeah
unkempt pagoda
pos is in the same category as ares but gives fantastic damage to make up for it, some people think it's the #1 best
mighty ermine
yeah, ares' isn't strictly bad always, but you pretty much need it to be rare or ideally epic, and also with some poms invested for it to do respectable damage
compared to say, going ham while athena call is active
cold mason
yeah
I like artemis' a lot for spamability. But I didn't consider using dio at its lesser forms that's neat
so with poseidon do you use greater or regular?
unkempt pagoda
personally i go lesser but i just like lesser calls in general
i find panic pressing much more useful than waiting out the greater call, though i'm sure pos is fine at greater
mighty ermine
lesser poseidon call with rip current can sometimes just... delete enemy waves
unkempt pagoda
artemis is 5 lessers per bar, making it a faster panic button, but the trade-off is the damage is eh if you use it as lesser spammer
i still haven't gotten rip tide yet 
cold mason
Is skelly generally the best summon? I really like the damage of thanatos but yeah.
mighty ermine
i only get rip current pretty rarely too, but when i do it's actually really fun
mighty ermine
extends pos call duration and sucks in enemies periodically while it's going
mighty ermine
yeah i got the name wrong at first and edited lol
unkempt pagoda
shows how much i know about it 😛
unkempt pagoda
imma get a rip current eris build going and beat heat 50 with it, watch me
mighty ermine
do it do it
cold mason
Do people just not like exagryph? Every time I see people talking about high heat, except you onyx lmao, it's always like fists shield or bow
unkempt pagoda
exagryph is fine lol
mighty ermine
i'm not sure what the range is on the pull, but you can like, roughly approach anything and you don't have to worry about aiming directly at them at all
unkempt pagoda
eris is like, #1 best aspect right now
cold mason
sick, tail. ty
unkempt pagoda
i think people get put off by the lack of stun on attack, the seemingly plinky damage, and the reloading
christ people get sick of the reloading
unkempt pagoda
which tbf i also get sick of
mighty ermine
yeah, most exagryph disliking lately seems to come from misunderstanding what's good on it, or bemoaning how powerful eris is
cold mason
eris seems hella good but I usually run zag just cause it does help with reloading exaustion lmao
I can't convince myself to use anything but zeus' attack on it though. I'm sure other stuff is better but I keep coming back to it for wave deletion
unkempt pagoda
heat 0 delta chamber eris is my self-care run
mighty ermine
delta chamber being viable now is so blessed
unkempt pagoda
i like to also use dio on eris too, and get all 3 hangover duos for it
mighty ermine
rate of fire used to be worse, longer cooldown period between bursts too
cold mason
oof
unkempt pagoda
delta's burst fire was extremely slow, and the cooldown between bursts was much slower
it was legitimately a dps loss to take delta
cold mason
right, fair enough.
mighty ermine
lmao yeah
unkempt pagoda
i fully considered it a trap hammer until the changes
cold mason
yeah now it basically rules i love it to death
cloud barn
Gun
austere shadow
You guys should try flurry spear with poseidon zeus duo and poseidon attack
Melts bosses quickly
cold mason
I've started to like the spear again. It used to be one of my least favourites but lately i'm coming back to it.
Exagryph is still my unruly child tho
unkempt pagoda
spear used to be my 2nd least favorite until the current implementation of spear was added, now it's great
hades spear is one of the most fun weapons in the game
mighty ermine
facts
cold mason
I can't get used to guan yu or hades. primarily because i always forget to use the spin anyway rofl.
mighty ermine
yeah, spin takes a lot of practice for it to not feel awkward
most players just hate it and avoid it because it doesn't feel good at first
unkempt pagoda
i changed my mind, quick massive hades spear is my self-care run
cold mason
lmao
unkempt pagoda
spins so big and fast the illustration for it literally disappears bc the game can't handle it
mighty ermine
i love that lol
i used to f10 the disappearing spin fx but now it's just like
whatever it's funny and still in
cold mason
does it really lmao that rules
yo quick q can beowulf shield still get charged flight upgrade or was that removed
unkempt pagoda
fitting entire styx chambers in a single spin is quite a trip
beo still gets charged flight, yes
cold mason
dammit so it's just rng screwing me
it's the only hammer i still need for the fates rofl
shield hammer i should say
unkempt pagoda
sad, it's probably beo's best hammer
hey tail
do you remember the mess that was world smasher
mighty ermine
oh no what happened with it
i almost never took world smasher so i'm not surprised i don't know about this
unkempt pagoda
oh, world smasher was cut in blood price lol
unkempt pagoda
no it's okay it deserved to go
mighty ermine
it was like, bull rush replaced by a 80/90 base damage slam in front right
unkempt pagoda
it was 70
mighty ermine
oof
unkempt pagoda
got rid of the defense and the mobility of the bull rush for a base 70 hit lol
completely, utterly outclassed by charged shot, honestly i'm surprised they didn't nerf charged shot instead
mighty ermine
wait a minute yeah charged shot was in the game at the same time as world smasher?
just being straight up better? wow
unkempt pagoda
yes lol
glass kelp
rocket or triple bomb for eris?
unkempt pagoda
i once suggested charged shot and world smasher have their damages switched, but ig they just didn't like it lol
cold mason
yeah for eris probably triple bomb
unkempt pagoda
rocket can be good on eris, you just have to shoot it point-blank
aiming at a wall, or be next to an enemy when it goes off
mighty ermine
yeah rocket is more immediate when you keep in mind it has to blow up in your face
cold mason
is trippy shot the best cast 90% of the time or am i wrong somehow
unkempt pagoda
done right, rocket is a much, much faster boost than regular special is
glass kelp
will see how the rocket goes then
unkempt pagoda
is trippy shot the best cast 90% of the time or am i wrong somehow
in my house, all casts are treated equally with love and affectionbut trippy shot gets a little extra
cold mason
like it's so good and all the upgrades are good too it's unfair lmao
high tolerance? good. black out? good. ice wine? good. scintillating feast? good.
unkempt pagoda
it's so sad that trippy shot is the only cast whose duo morphs are compatible with each other
cold mason
so you can get both?
unkempt pagoda
yes
mighty ermine
yeah and it's bonkers
cold mason
i haven't been able to try yet but was curious if they discluded one another
lmao that sounds obscene. i love it
mighty ermine
secret insider info that's relevant, also: ||trippy shot is one of amir's favorite boons||
mighty ermine
lol
cold mason
lmao that definitely does explain its power
mighty ermine
only a little bit 
cold mason
maybe he just likes dio. and i mean who can blame him
torpid wren
I take everything I said about rail back... Eris is pretty nutty. Had a run with using Zeus on attack+Jolted, rocket bomb+cluster bomb and everything just dies. I was shocked by the end when I realised nothing was on special... which meant the damage could have been nuttier.
mighty ermine
it's so funny how eris has been slept on collectively until 1.0
unkempt pagoda
i took a nap on it bc i thought it was just slightly too weak 😛
cold mason
i think a big part of it is i just find zeus' attack on the rail so aesthetically pleasing. the way it bounces off enemies so fast and ruins everything, 10/10 content.
unkempt pagoda
and then people saw the buff in the patch notes and were like "huh... rail has another aspect?"
unkempt pagoda
reload for big damage
cold mason
well. wait, does it affect the special?
unkempt pagoda
does what affect the special?
cold mason
the reload, like can you reload then special
unkempt pagoda
hestia is an amazing boss killer, not so great on regular rooms (but hammers can help patch it up a little)
cold mason
yeah that's what I meant. I can see it being fantastic for bosses
but most of my irritation always happens in styx or elysium anyway, so I'd prefer the bouncing rapid fire
unkempt pagoda
fair, but remember that underneath it's still the rail
mighty ermine
yeah, you ideally want piercing fire, ricochet, or explosive fire to help its regular chamber capabilities
cold mason
oh man, ricochet + zeus attack. 😍
torpid wren
Felt like eris really needed rocket bomb to get going.. but i can see it being useable with the regular curved bomb... 75% damage on almost everything for 7 second is nice. Wonder if the damage boost goes to Calls 🤔
cold mason
dumbass rats just freaking out like "wtf is going onnnnn"
mighty ermine
@torpid wren it does!
you can boost yourself and then pop, say, poseidon call and have it just do huge damage
unkempt pagoda
the boost is all damage
torpid wren
💦 okay then
cold mason
aah jesus. i'm gonna have to start running eris aren't i lmao
unkempt pagoda
apparently nyaanyaa got up to 1.5k per pos call while playing eris rail lol
cold mason
i just assumed the damage was only for your attack
mighty ermine
wow
cold mason
and jesus
torpid wren
even.. the special trinket calls 💦 ???
unkempt pagoda
eris' strength is versatility
it literally works with any build
there's a reason why speedrunners also try to pick up tidal dash on eris runs
mighty ermine
tidal dash is also popular with eris, because it's a dash boon with big damage to start with, and the boost just makes it even better
unkempt pagoda
also why i recommend hangover on eris
torpid wren
wait? curse damage too?
mighty ermine
eris will make all your dreams come true
unkempt pagoda
even.. the special trinket calls
actually i don't think this is true lol
which is weird, but i get it
if you pick up targeting system, that damage boost works though
cold mason
I think those are all "does ---- damage" period, not sure anything bo-- oh
really?
weird
torpid wren
don't want to be doing 2500+75% damage
mighty ermine
ah yeah i was wondering what could boost summons because i was sure something could
unkempt pagoda
targeting system might be my 2nd favorite special hammer on eris, an extra +30% global damage is no slouch
cold mason
the slow down is pretty nice too
unkempt pagoda
had battie doing 3250 damage with targeting system on
mighty ermine
battie + TS = mort but better
cold mason
Than's still my boy for the summons. It's hilarious bringing theseus and asterius to half, and then killing them both at the same time lmao
how dare you
unkempt pagoda
theoretically i could do 3.9k with targeting system mort
cold mason
that's fair.
mighty ermine
not saying that mort is terrible
cold mason
No I get that. The delay is annoying for sure
unkempt pagoda
hades doing lasers is a perfect time to set it off
cold mason
and yeah that's when I usually do mort for hades
during theseus' "support me, gods!" works too
just immediately gone lmao
unkempt pagoda
hm, how much hp does hades have in his second shield, second phase?
mighty ermine
i love nuking theseus during that if i forget during the first part of the fight
cold mason
Not sure tbh.
unkempt pagoda
er, i guess first shield, since it's half
cold mason
I know theseus has less hp than asterius tho. At least EM version does anyway
unkempt pagoda
wonder if 3900 would be enough to nuke him entirely
cold mason
Just checked; Theseus max hp is 9000/12000. Asterius is 14000/16000
@unkempt pagoda hades has 17000/22000. I think that's per phase but don't quote me. Not sure when he activates the impervious tho
so do with that what you will
unkempt pagoda
so half is 8500, so if you dealt a targeting system mort at him, you'd get him down to almost a quarter of his health in a hit
wait, i just realized
you know what probably works with both targeting system and eris? greater call aphrodite
you can get a clean 5125 if you do it right
torpid wren
is there a damage threshold for bosses that have invulnerable phases? like...phases changes making it impossible to kill certain bosses in one shot?
mighty ermine
timing both the call and the summon with TS and eris boost active to just obliterate 
unkempt pagoda
both together would be more than 8500, meaning you could entirely nuke him in three button presses...
is there a damage threshold for bosses that have invulnerable phases? like...phases changes making it impossible to kill certain bosses in one shot?
all bosses have invulnerability phases that pop at certain fractions of their hp, meaning yes, you can't kill them in one shot
mighty ermine
rip lernie skip
lofty totem
Alright yall
I wanna win an EM4 run with using ONE boon, chaos, hammer, pom, hearts are allowed
I got to hades with gun 4th and level 16 zeus M1 heroic
and that wasnt enough, zeus M1 scales awfully with poms, that did only 42 damage per tick
is there another weapon single boon combo I should try?
mighty ermine
you could probably do the same idea but on eris, honestly
unkempt pagoda
switch gun4 for eris
unkempt pagoda
suddenly 74 per bullet
mighty ermine
it's most certainly not a dps down if you just translate what you did to eris
lofty totem
eris cant get triple shot right?
cause thats the only reason gun worked
well, worked enough to get TO hades
mighty ermine
doesn't need it really; all chain lightning bouncing to everything else will be boosted by +75%
unkempt pagoda
especially with something like delta chamber or flurry fire
lofty totem
but I have no hope of beating hades with a spam zeus M1 build
mighty ermine
my point is that a triple fire mode which does not exist for non-luci rails, is not needed
turbid needle
Lightning Strike is very good on Exagryph.
lofty totem
yall, I know its a good idea, thats why I tried it on the gun 4th
but it wasnt enough
poms after level 4 on zeus m1 only upgrade the damage by 1
unkempt pagoda
gun4 isn't the best user of lightning strike, plain and simple
lofty totem
I need something that scales better
mighty ermine
why not? just because you lost doesn't mean you couldn't feasibly win instead
lofty totem
I mean I did choke but
it wasnt close
I wasnt doing enough damage
not even close
gun's also a riskier playstyle imo
shield is great for this type of thing but what the hell scales with shield by itself?
mighty ermine
i'm not sure i would describe rail as riskier in relation to other weapons other than shield
lofty totem
then gun isnt something I know how to play safe
gleaming current
Idea
Drunken strike eris
lofty totem
that and sword
eris is spam special bow right?
wait no
gun again
Im not using eris
cant stand the aspect
gleaming current
mighty ermine
lol
lofty totem
in terms of things thatl scale well
I think one shot reload gun, spear special with the right hammers, and either demeter, aphrodite, or artemis would work well
unkempt pagoda
lol
lofty totem
high base damage, the boon is percentage scaling
mighty ermine
sure, you could do a heartbreak hestia run
that would probably work assuming your only pact active is EM4
lofty totem
yea only EM4
stark summit
I remember seeing a video of someone clearing EM4 with no boons on hestia somewhere
lofty totem
maybe also excal cause it just has nutty base damage
and its special is invaluable even without it buffed
the question is
how do artemis, aphrodite, demeter M1s scale with absurd amounts of poms
mighty ermine
why demeter specifically
lofty totem
percentage based damage, and while I wont notice its effect in mob clearing itl help with bosses a ton
mighty ermine
athena has the same +% scaling
mighty ermine
and is also useful in its own right, but yeah
gleaming current
Any % scaling is pretty tame and usually checks out with original percentage of a boon
lofty totem
slowing down cocaine hades is really important
gleaming current
Abyssal blood time
lofty totem
what about doom then? hows that scale with 10+ poms?
Oh yea I should switch to that
but I need more slow then that
cinder flower
hera bow festive fog isn't that great
lofty totem
actually