I think I need to level aspect of chaos up a bit
#h1-builds-and-combat
jaunty locust
I like the zeus a lot
but I have a bad habit of being too busy trying to set it up and be clever with it to actually pay attention, and get beat up
bold ingot
yeah thats usually my issue too
GY is sort of similar to zeus aspect in the spinny whirly release aspect that you gotta set up but at least it gets ya HP
bold ingot
its fun but finnicky
jaunty locust
I hear a lot of peopel call it just the best
bold ingot
im not great at it but that might be the motor control issues talkin sdljf
thorny basin
is it concentrated volley or charged volley that isnt compatable with chiron?
jaunty locust
Hmm... I wasn't sure if I liked the ares cast, but it does a number on the hydra
blazing yacht
is it concentrated volley or charged volley that isnt compatable with chiron?
@thorny basin Charged volley is the incompatible one
thorny basin
what does charged volley do? seems like concentrated volly is the nuts one with it
blazing yacht
Charged volley lets you charge up your special for like +300% dmg I think. Imo relentless volley is better with Chiron (+4 arrows per special), but concentrated is great too. Get them both and it's an easy GG
thorny basin
ah ok
well ive got a run i had to pause in the middle with with relentless, lets see if i can get concentrated before i die a horrible death
blazing yacht
Haha good luck! Which god do you have on the special?
blazing yacht
Ya arty special is great if you aren't running privileged status. If you are and you have aphro or demeter on the attack try to get exposed on the special for +40% dmg
hushed sun
aaaaand managed to spend the following 20 minutes in elysium and temple
10 minutes after elysium, 30 after hades
why is the sack so uncooperative for me
blazing yacht
The sack is a fickle beast and cannot be trusted. I think I saw somewhere that if you do one of the mini boss rooms first you have a better shot for the 2 sack. That's completely unverifiable but I find I get it faster that way
hushed sun
I just go for the elite chambers for the dough
seems like too much of a waste unless you're on the brink of death
blazing yacht
Ah fair. Call me crazy but I find the elite chambers easier than the regular ones
hushed sun
not necessarily easier, but yeah i don't feel like they take exceptionaly longer
blazing yacht
Except for the stupid ||tiny vermin||
tight cypress
usually because there's one enemy to focus on instead of like 5 armored snakestones
blazing yacht
True. Those snake stones and the dudes that shoot the poisonous arrows are the bane of my existence when I don't have athena dash
hushed sun
I've been farminig darkness for quite some runs now, and I came to the conclusion chiron aspect has a certain point where it loses its efficiency
especially when you enter elysium, I can't help but notice the damage just isn't quite there
well more like enemy hp goes absurdly high at that point but anyways
blazing yacht
I find that it has the most potential but you need a good setup to really get going
Bad hammers will kill ya
hushed sun
most of the pre-elysium enemies are shaken off easily enough with a couple special, a bit more than that if you have CP on
but once you go elysium I just find that isn't really the case, I feel like chiron needs a very specific build if you want to really cruise
*oh well come to think of it might have to level up bouldy keepsake
blazing yacht
I have good luck with demeter special and aphro attack. The slow helps a lot I find
- priv stat of course
hushed sun
demeter special and arctic blast becomes absurd if you manage to get relentless
they.... just........ explode into smithereens
turbid needle
That too.
blazing yacht
Definitely. I had a stupid run like that yesterday with heroic sweet surrender, heroic pressure points, epic arctic blast and 3 special chaos boons
hearty swift
is the 4th aspect for the sword good at level 1?
jaunty locust
Hmm, started out with epic drunken strike on the rail
that might be promising... I haven't messed around with it much
bronze sorrel
Question about optimizing for max damage on Hera: Casts shoot out from the tip of your cast range, so if you hit with your attack the cast tends to miss. Is the tactic to try and fire so the shot ends directly in front of the target and lose the attack damage? Always use deadly shot for tracking? Always use festive fog so it doesn't matter? Go for explosive shot?
cunning urchin
Yeah, just quick-release your shots. Don't bother power-shooting.
jaunty locust
wait - does that mean the hera changes the shot? Becuase if you're just quick releasing to get the shots out faster, why not just cast?
or is it because you can load multiples
void fjord
regarding hoarding slash, does the attack boon dmg increase also affect it?
jaunty locust
oh this is a rough choice. I got zeus dash (And jolted), and dionysus attack on my rail, and my options are Sisyphus (I wanna get that friendship) aphrodite (maybe I can get a real thick bomb) or a chaos gate
uhh, no. The hoarding slash damage is just on top
jaunty locust
(I went sisyphus becuase I love my friend bouldy)
OH but I have a potential artemis at the shop.... hammer gives me explosive fire. THe area damage is probably worth it, for my drunken attack, because spread fire is too short range.... not that I dislike rocket bomb
tricky options today
rocket bomb could work well if I pick up an aphrodite on it to make it a REAL bad boy. I might get the ricochet attack for my gun, which could be better than explosive fire
I don't think the rail is a grrrreeeaaaat artemis build, although her "every hit that lands spawns an arrow" would indeed be quite rad with the high speed
hushed sun
support fire, epic pressure point, profit
||Lucifer|| with flurry fire, support fire, pressure point was pretty fun to watch
I also happened to have artemis aid and zeus god gauge boon that run, which ended up with zag just running around and artemis doing all the dirty work
cunning urchin
Pressure Points doesn't do all that much.
crimson swift
i asked in discussions first but i guess this might be a better place for this question
anyone has ever played the hidden fist aspect with hidden blades dash or merciful end duo boons?
i played 5 runs and can't manage to get the only duo boon i want and now i'm getting suspicious the hidden aspect prevents you from getting these duos
hushed sun
pretty sure that wasn't on the incompatibility list
cunning urchin
You can get all the boons.
crimson swift
i'm saying that because the shield already has boons it cant have
so why not the fists, even more so because those duos would be completely stupid with 6 dashes
cunning urchin
Yes, you can get all the Duo Boons with Fists 4.
crimson swift
ok
thanks
guess my luck ran out from having 3+ duos every run before trying to get those
cunning urchin
And yes, ME is pretty much the best build with Fists 4 atm.
hushed sun
oh btw
dark quail
Should i max out rama or chiron?
hushed sun
i don't use spears often, do people use serrated points?
crimson swift
i used to take serrated point alot when playing spear before
hushed sun
Should i max out rama or chiron?
this one feels like preferences to me, both are strong enough imo
crimson swift
but somehow it feels like my dash is unable to prevent damage anymore (when i take it)
dunno when that happened
hushed sun
but I'm a die hard chiron user so chiron
but somehow it feels like my dash is unable to prevent damage anymore (when i take it)
same, i think this happens because
shorter dash=less i-frame combined with prolonged attack animation which prevents you from doing something straightaway
or maybe not, just a speculation
crimson swift
personally i think rama's special is way stronger than chiron's
crimson swift
i mean at special spam
crimson swift
woops i already said special should had re-read myself
thing is that the rama's special does alot of aoe since the arrows bounce
chiron is mostly single target but, i think it's still worse at single damage because the animation is way too slow
i personally think rama's special might be the best hangover attack in the game
great at keeping the stack maxed out on single target and easily aoe the whole area
jaunty locust
😦 prophecy for delta chamber, but I want ricochet fire because I'm using dionysus
dense valley
I thought rama special was dumb until i got a single special on-hit effect and went "oh"
jaunty locust
do I pick up the better boon or do I pick up the prophecy boon
jaunty locust
epic dio, epic jolted effect...
oh, I don't mind if I lose, tiw ould just be nice to otherwise. I'll go for hte delta. The ricochet won't help me on hades anyway
oh delta isn't that bad
crimson swift
yeah rama's special at first i thought was only usable for the effect that makes the attack damage dealt to multiple enemies
and then when the new hangover duo boons came i just went, wait i have an idea
and stuff melted down
was fun
jaunty locust
ahh! Forgot to use my reroll on hermes. Would have LOVED his auto-god-gauge fill 😐
SO excited to find out what you're tlaking about haha
oh no the bouldy speed and the hermes greater haste at 30% has me moving TOO FAST ahhhhh
dark quail
Which aspects pair well with poseidons boons?
jaunty locust
I don't know! I never really want to take Poseidon, but he usually does... okay
mighty ermine
his special +% is the second highest, right behind aphrodite, so at least there's... that
jaunty locust
wow, thsi setup I have rules. Drunken strike on the rail, athena cast with the bounce duo (it's ok I guess), and most of all the support fire attack. I have the zeus dash and the jolted bonus, so I just carbonize things
Also not a big fan Tailesque?
mighty ermine
yeah, not really. him coming into a run is usually incidental and i just have to work with him
at least rupture is better now, and there's wave pounding, etc.
hearty elbow
Poseidon's Aid is good enough to deal with his 20 other mediocre boons
dense valley
i like poseidon a whole bunch
worst case his stuff is a 5% damage bonus for me from the mirror, but if you get multiple stuff his boons stack harder than i think a lot of the other gods do
jaunty locust
his boons definitely stack well
not quite zeus levels of turning-you-into-a-blender (I got his legendary once, and HO BOY)
if you're clever, you can get through a LOT of tricky situations in elysium with careful wall attacks. I got it while using the shield
thorny basin
luci + piling zeus buffs seems kinda busted in the ocuple videos i saw
smoky dust
mistral dash is total crap right? even at heroic it's 38 damage
is there something I might have that might improve that damage and make it worthwhile? or can I safely sell
stoic thicket
It's pretty decent if you need to spread a curse for Priv Status, otherwise not really worth much.
dense valley
it's for the chill effect, when you get hermes dash and just dash around a room youll be surprised at how effective it is at chilling
but yeah, if you dont want the chill
smoky dust
i mean, oh boy, a single stack of chill 😐
dense valley
its better than aphro dash but its a similar utility
static jacinth
Not the best dash, but it's workable in a pinch.
smoky dust
huh dionysus Call is not as terrible as it sounds, it was doing 86 damage twice a second to boss (instead of listed 15)
dense valley
yeah, the thing about his call is the flat damage of the hangovers is way higher than normal
twilit roost
anyone has any tips on how to play faster? my runs are averaging about 30 - 40 mins and i want to be much faster than that lol
wide plover
watch streamers and copy them I guess?
how they move around, how they hit several enemies at once and so on
dense valley
hard to say without seeing you play, my averages have been about 25 minutes since the beginning, i only just recently realised i can turn on the timed heat challenge for absolutely no downsides
it might just be the way you move and clear a room
rare stone
rocket bomb+cluster bomb is amazing. gets you through the surface in seconds
dense valley
but in addition to that, the timer ticks while youre just fumbling around in a level
twilit roost
watch streamers and copy them I guess?
any recommendations?
dense valley
if you just get through those gates and just keep moving youll reduce your time a lot
wide plover
haelian on youtube/twitch
untold vortex
Wriste13 on twitch/youtube as well
wide plover
maybe daddy degrand if you like his style
twilit roost
rocket bomb+cluster bomb is amazing. gets you through the surface in seconds
will try when i play rail
jaunty locust
hey - if i'm trying for a demeter cast build, is it a better idea to grab a pom early to power it up, or grab zeus for the.... zeus specials (zagreus bow)
never really done a cast build so
twilit roost
i've never done a demeter cast build so i cant really help you
but thanks for the youtube/streamer recommendations guys
rare stone
the most importent thing in a demeter cast build imo is getting the dou boon with artemis that makes your cast track faster
jaunty locust
because i know that the zeus special on a point-blank bow special feels like it would do bananas
ohhhhh ok. So I maybe wanna dodge zeus so I don't end up not finding artemis later
wide plover
isn't there a cooldown on zeus special? I heard it's actually bad on chiron because it can only proc once every 0.167 sec
rare stone
also getting the hermes boon that makes your csat fire faster is pretty good
dense valley
yeah, the artemis duo boon is a complete game changer for that one
jaunty locust
oh, I'm not using chiron, I'm using normal bow. If that's true, that would slow things down
twilit roost
getting the chaos boons for extra cast dmg/ extra bloodstone is not bad too
dense valley
in general i would say take the boons over a single pom
jaunty locust
that's true
wide plover
I heard it in context of chiron, but it should apply regardless of weapon
rare stone
boon vs pom depends on how much im setisfied with my buld usuallly
wide plover
ah right wiki:
Thunder Flourish
Has internal cooldown of .2 per target. (Bolt only triggers, at most, 5 times per second per enemy)
wiki is possibly outdated on specific number
rare stone
if i feel i got most of the boons i need ill take the pom(unles its an upgraded boon)
smoky dust
somehow I always end up with ravenous will
and feverishly make sure i've thrown away my damage debuff crystals :p
maybe I should take that cast talent to throw them away faster
jaunty locust
oh, so you're right - if I have the zeus special and i jus tpoint blank special someone with the normal bow, it seems to only hit a bit
rare stone
is at the same with ares special?
lethal chasm
i just had a wild demeter cast build, had the tracking duo w artemis and the demeter buff to chill
just earlier
couldve killed redacted w just the beams prob
turbid needle
I'm not sure what you mean, Dini.
jaunty locust
OH ok so the REGULAR bow special it works ok with, because it's paced out. It doesn't all fire simultaneously, so you can make use of the zeus special on it
lethal chasm
@ speed tips, watch speedrunners indeed ol i suck and have 21 min time
smoky dust
oh I keep forgetting to ask, what does the green effect do when Hades hits you with a skull thing directly?
dense valley
he's activating boiling blood on you
crude salmon
Look at your ability with the same name
dense valley
its the same as when you put your cast in someone
crude salmon
Except his stacks
dense valley
he deals more damage to you when he hits you after that
rare stone
I'm not sure what you mean, Dini.
i mean does the cooldown for bolts when you use zeus special applies to the doom effect with ares
cunning urchin
Thunder Flourish's cooldown has nothing to do with Doom.
What 53 run are you talking about?
red mist
haelian posted one
cunning urchin
In 1.0?
cunning urchin
Yeah, that was like a week after I beat his WR. I thought maybe there was a new one in 1.0 now.
sharp anvil
Does extending jab work on the triple dash strike for the spear?
cunning urchin
Extending Jab doesn't affect Dash-Strikes.
cunning urchin
Serrated Point.
sharp anvil
Not familiar at all with spear (And is dash strike even any better on guan yu than other aspects?)
I run Guan Yu for the special build but if I get the triple dash srtike hammer then I just take it
cunning urchin
Spear Dash-Strike has 20 base damage. Guan Yu's has 30.
sharp anvil
Gotcha, then it's kinda worth
jaunty locust
well, I was going for the demeter cast build, but with the artemis dash-strike, chain shot, and perfect shot, those dash-power shots are doing pretty nice damage
cunning urchin
You'll get better DPS with Serrated Point than with Charged Skewer, but Charged Skewer is easier because you can just keep your distance.
And your Dash distance isn't nerfed.
sharp anvil
Both are very enjoyable specs for me
I like that I have more choices than only one, makes you have a good build more often
cunning urchin
Yeah, there's a good chance you'll see at least one of them in a run, too.
And if you want, you can go for a spin build instead. I like the variety with Guan Yu.
sharp anvil
So if I already have Serrated Point and I'm going for a dash strike build, what other hammers do I get? I guess either the Guan Yu spinning blade duration or the special armour%dmg ?
It doesn't seem like much has synergy with it
cunning urchin
Yeah, the others don't matter. Ideally you just get Charged Skewer, too.
sharp anvil
Gotcha, thanks 
echo summit
is backstab or extra dmg on full health better in terms of dmg over the course of a run? i can do pretty good in terms of backstabs with spear, which is what i use the most
dense valley
Depends on your weapon
I use full health damage for bow
In general i think backstabs is better though
turbid needle
its basicially like backtabs better for bosses and full health dmg is better for blowing up small enemies
onyx folio
are you guys more into fated authority or fated persuasion?
ive tried both out but im not really fully sure which i prefer
cunning urchin
Persuasion.
fluid trench
persuasion's nice
authority is nice if you want to grind out materials
but after that, it's whatever
latent elk
do any of you use the aspect of hera for bow?
dense ore
Quick question: The player may use only 1 aspect, right?
crude salmon
per run, yes
dense ore
And how does one choose it from the list of unlocked ones?
crude salmon
interact with the weapon pedestal again while its already equipped
if it doesn't work, you may not have them unlocked, which requires you to unlock each of the 6 weapons and then play one more run
red mist
oof after spending so long trying to get jury summons off the board
the rooms have gotten considerably less stressful
crude salmon
jury summons is fun
red mist
so I'm on eris exagryph starting with zeus attack and I've been offered poseidon
vs HP
poseidon cast going into duo boon actually sounds pretty good
so yeah I'll go take the damn poseidon
spread fire or flurry fire?
I'll take flurry fire because I need to achievement but which one's better
crude salmon
i'd say spread for zeus attack
hushed sun
who needs ambrosia when you can exchange for blood
hushed sun
i don need nobody more than artemis
red mist
I am being spoiled by athena dash
I'm landing so many deflects that should have been hits otherwise
need to learn to play waaay more conservatively with no athena dash
dark quail
So when you unlock all weapons and mirror abilities, there is no reason not to trade 5 keys for a nectar?
red mist
yeah that's the only use for keys now
half crater
you need a key to reset the darkness in the mirror, and there’s a late game cosmetic item that you can buy with them
red mist
1/5 a nectar, or sometimes the broker will demand key trades
half crater
but honestly yeah; i’d recommend trading them for nectar
red mist
oh right those. well gemstones->keys anyway
the only time you need keys is when the broker wants them
I got a titan's blood that way
red mist
alrighty I have my 10th clear on the way
what achievement-hunting jank can I get away with
red mist
do tell
well by achievement hunting I do mean grabbing a lot of blood and ambrosia and other stuff like that
wide plover
check the prophecies in your room then
there's some easy stuff like getting specific weapon to surface or whatever
red mist
well... not quite. those don't take advantage of skipping hades fight.
wide plover
or finishing with each condition from pact once
if you want to clear with a build that hades will stomp normally, you have to judge by yourself. There are people who win by killing everything with poseidon dash or something similar
red mist
ares dash I guess
lethal chasm
once you're at 10 clears you should have a lot of blood lol just run whatever weapon gives the most at lowest heat
besides that pray for fish? lol
the 1 clear for each weapon is 10 blood tho
which is huge i just got that today lol couldnt do it w fists forever
red mist
fists are quite strong tho
final karma
I agree fists can be strong, but they can be a bit more difficult to use
untold quiver
Part of what makes the fists so strong is that they have a 4 boon 2 God combo that lets them go through almost any content
wide plover
what does this combo consist of?
untold quiver
Curse of Pain + divine flourish -->Merciful end .....Devine Dash
red mist
alright this jank run I will be running sword with ares trinket to see if I can get his legendary
and all the conditions I didn't do yet
wide plover
do you mean curse of agony? pain is special
untold quiver
Attack and dash
You need special for the duo
Then it's just dash attacks and everything dies
wide plover
ah, I see
untold quiver
It's really effective you spend a lot of time in dash I frames and deflecting
wide plover
cool, I need to try it out
cunning urchin
You can finish all of the bounties with Malphon with just Divine Strike and nothing else. 
It's really effective you spend a lot of time in dash I frames and deflecting
Dash-Strikes don't have any i-frames.
solid cairn
That’s why Athena dash is so good
Even on nemesis there is an argument to take it over Artemis dash
final karma
huh, I could have sworn that yesterday morning hangover damaged every .2 not .5 seconds...
copper harbor
isn't there a duo boon that does dmg ever 0.35
razor shoals does dmg every 0.2, I used to get those mixed up
stoic thicket
There was a very short time where Curse of Nausea did 0.3s ticks, for awhile now it's been 0.35. Regular hangover was always 0.5s.
final karma
huh i guess i was imagining it lol
red mist
that's ares dio
athena dash changes the way you play so much
if you're optimizing
eeey the discord mods are on the credits
wide plover
is dio attack good on rail? zag or lucy
unkempt pagoda
i prefer it on eris
robust geyser
Question: I have most non-rail aspects at level 4 or 5, excluding achilles, zeus, hera, beowulf, and rama. What should I upgrade next?
(I phrased that weirdly, but still)
wide plover
achilles if you want more cast builds and poseidon isn't enough for you, zeus if you want bzzz bzzz flying around, beowulf if you want chunky flares, for hera 1 lvl is enough for fog and hunting blades shenanigans. Rama is cool too, but I don't know details
fluid trench
beowulf/hera, probably? i mean hera is meh if you plan to use non-embedding casts i guess
unkempt pagoda
if you like zag bow, rama is basically a super zag bow
cunning urchin
Hera Lv.1 isn't too different from Lv.5.
unkempt pagoda
if you like chiron, rama can also do chiron-like shenanigans
if you like both, rama can do a hybrid style
cunning urchin
Get Demeter Aspect to Lv.5 then.
robust geyser
...is that one good? I've never heard good things about it.
robust geyser
How does one boon/hammer it?
unkempt pagoda
most if not all special hammers work on it, but the meta is explosive upper
turns your delete button into a +100% damage aoe delete button
robust geyser
Hmmm. I should have enough for getting Achilles and Demeter to 4 then.
cunning urchin
Boons are the same as other Malphon aspects tbh (excluding Fists 4), you just add a +% damage boon on Special.
unkempt pagoda
either aphro or artemis special (though i think aphro outpaces artemis, but nyaanyaa can check me on this)
robust geyser
I'm not very sophisticated in my Malphon gameplay, so it typically ends up being "haha, DPS go brrr" while I hold down square and press X when the combo finishes.
cunning urchin
Dash-Upper with extra hits does more base damage than Uppercut with extra hits, so make sure you use that.
unkempt pagoda
the hammer i find the most fun with demfists is kinetic launcher lol
robust geyser
That sounds like it would just turn you into a torpedo.
Not saying that's a bad thing.
unkempt pagoda
it's great fun
fluid trench
ive just been using talos
robust geyser
Talos is sweet.
smoky atlas
so you spam 3 chains of normal punches then switch to dash upper?
rinse and repeat for maximum dmg i guess
gonna give demeter fist a try
cunning urchin
Hmm. Maximum damage is actually Dash-Strike into Dash-Upper repeatedly.
cunning urchin
If you press Special immediately after a Dash-Strike, you'll do both a Dash-Strike and Dash-Upper in one dash.
smoky atlas
12 hits hm
cunning urchin
That's two 5-hit combos and two Dash-Strikes.
smoky atlas
so the strat is probably dash-strike/normal atk small fries and save the special for big targets?
seems like the skulls will be useful now
cunning urchin
Some of this and some of that. It charges pretty fast, and your Dash-Upper does a lot of damage, so you don't want to avoid using your Special unnecessarily.
As a rule of thumb, I'd say doing a Dash-Upper any time it's charged will give you better DPS than saving it.
smoky atlas
gotcha
does zeus special proc 5 times with its special
or im better off going with aphro/art as usual
unkempt pagoda
the latter, the base damage is too high to not use a damage modifier god
also, pretty sure they all hit on the same frame, so zeus' internal cooldown shuts that down
hearty swift
Does anyone have a good build for zag aspect sword?
cunning urchin
They don't hit on the same frame, but Thunder Flourish would only hit once, yes.
hearty swift
I tried all of the melee and weapons and its combo with the 15% atk speed feels the smoothest and the most satisfying atm
cunning urchin
Have you looked at the pinned guide for base weapons?
cunning urchin
Well, there is one.
hearty swift
oh..... okay thanks!
cunning urchin
That one.
hearty swift
oh nice! I have been trying to use more aphrodite in my builds
cunning urchin
Most of my own runs start with her.
hearty swift
I'm still surprised by how smooth the fully upgraded basic sword is, I tried excalibur and the numbers were neat but it felt a little janky
cunning urchin
I haven't tried Zagreus Aspect since they changed it in 1.0.
robust geyser
I think it's hilarious with lambent plume.
Bonus points for getting rush delivery and ignited ichor.
jolly osprey
I prefer the third sword aspect that knocks Cast crystals loose
turbid needle
is pulverising blow on the shield good?
jolly osprey
Paired with the boon to cause damage when crystals drop from an enemy
turbid needle
yes
fluid trench
ehh
cunning urchin
It's good.
fluid trench
i don't really use shield much so i can't comment
turbid needle
What would you guys consider to be a good cast to pair up with Achilles' aspect?
thanks @cunning urchin
fluid trench
generically i think artemis gets used?
turbid needle
Okay I get that but which one feels best to self-cast? Since Achilles is a self-cast build instead of something like Hera or Beowulf.
empty veldt
What would you guys consider to be a good cast to pair up with Achilles' aspect?
@turbid needle cast builds
unkempt pagoda
i've heard good things about zeus cast
hearty swift
Achilles?
um for most cast builds, its artemis for single target and dionysus for room clear
warm snow
is the 1.0 balanced?
hearty swift
but Dionysus just deals alot of damage, and you dont need alot of luck to build it up
warm snow
I've not tried all builds
cunning urchin
All cast builds are strong enough to clear anything sub-20 Heat easily. You're mostly just looking at which is faster or more fun.
hearty swift
Artemis' cast has the highest dps potential
But the delay with dionysus cast might be a little annoying
poseidon's cast was pretty fun with achilles spear
cunning urchin
turbid needle
Yeah I know they're all amazing but I just tried Ares' and it felt so janky. But I wanna give Arte or Poseidon a try.
Maybe I just didn't get all the pieces of the puzzle or played it wrong
cunning urchin
Very sure highest DPS goes to something other than True Shot. True Shot gets no cast duo.
warm snow
I often use Aphrodite cast (3 in a row)
hearty swift
oh really? I just thought with all of the crit damage
cunning urchin
You'll want to get Hunting Blades or Engulfing Vortex for Slicing Shot.
- Vicious Cycle
warm snow
I only use crit dmg with Rail triple bomb + rocket
get 1100+ dmg once or twice
add 5 bombs if you can
kill Hades really fast
hearty swift
My favourite "cast" build so far is a shield with ares' cast, game becomes so easy its just hillarious
robust geyser
Hunting blades + vicious cycle is great, but good luck getting it.
fluid trench
it's happened before but yeesh
robust geyser
Oh, of course, but that's not enough to make it consistent.
cunning urchin
It's reliable enough.
robust geyser
But maybe that's for the better? If we could force builds, the game would get stale.
cunning urchin
Engulfing Vortex works fine as a Hunting Blades replacement, anyway.
And Slicing Shot does a lot of damage even without Vicious Cycle.
robust geyser
That's the roomba one, right?
turbid needle
Both together is even better, no?
cunning urchin
I can force builds too easily, that's why I like AP2. Makes me figure out how to play with jank combos.
robust geyser
Hmmm
Personally, I think I'm too eager to spend persuasion charges on ultimately meaningless things.
warm snow
try Fated Persuasion to get the boons/well items you want
cunning urchin
Never?
cunning urchin
I dunno, when you feel like it. I know some players who can't stand Persuasion and swear by Authority.
robust geyser
I've been ranking it up for no reason other than wanting to complete the mirror.
fluid trench
auth is probably good if you want to grind up materials
warm snow
I use auth for 100 Obol rewards
fluid trench
forcing nectars/etc.
robust geyser
The only use I can think of is keys/darkness/gems, but that's not a great use.
I suppose also switching gods?
warm snow
you can change centaur heart/pom to Obol
wicked notch
Does anybody know if the extending jab of varatha affects spin attack? Damage bonus-wise
cunning urchin
Funny how that goes. Most people didn't like Persuasion much at all when they added it and stuck with Authority.
cunning urchin
Extending Jab doesn't affect the spin, no.
warm snow
Fated Authority
wicked notch
aight
robust geyser
Hmmm, could be useful for meme builds then.
cunning urchin
Miniboss chambers can only reroll into boons. Other gold laurel chambers can reroll into any gold laurel reward.
Most commonly, people reroll miniboss chambers to get the god they want.
cunning urchin
I've probably done that with Tiny Vermin before, but I don't have a video.
warm snow
he's so fast like lightning
cunning urchin
Krashercorr has a video of the Charon fight hitless. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuE9jZRHhlU
solid cairn
ok smoldering air with poseidon call is straight up broken
cunning urchin
Smoldering Air is great, yeah.
solid cairn
im using it with eris
solid cairn
already have zeus attack so why not
cunning urchin
Exactly my thinking with every weapon. I already have Heartbreak Strike/Lightning Strike, so why not.
solid cairn
poseidon has the best call in the game no questions asked
errant narwhal
anyone beats tiny vermin without losing HP?
@warm snow https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbef5_XBzqU gellot uploaded this a couple of days ago
cunning urchin
Hmmm. Don't underestimate Dionysus' Aid and Zeus' Aid.
robust geyser
Personally I prefer Artemis.
solid cairn
some have the potential to be better
onyx parcel
Aphro call is great
errant narwhal
skip to tiny vermin ofc
solid cairn
but poseidon is invincibility and does a ton of damage
fluid trench
yeah my favored calls are artemis/demeter/maybe ares
robust geyser
Yeah, it's just... inconvenient to control.
solid cairn
ares is just poseidon's but way more inconsistent
robust geyser
I often end up running in circles with it.
robust geyser
Interesting, in my experience Ares is more consistent than Poseidon. Just... less damaging.
cunning urchin
Out of the gate, Dionysus' Aid is the best call for DPS.
solid cairn
ares call is very slow
warm snow
I used Dionysus' Aid but lost a lot of HP coz I stand near the 4th boss
solid cairn
dio call is pretty insane at the cost of needing to be close
warm snow
same for Zeus
solid cairn
I think it's better than zeus tho
warm snow
stay close = dead
robust geyser
Hmmm, I think Dionysus is the only one where it's better not to wait for greater call?
cunning urchin
Any call has i-frames on activation.
robust geyser
Not sure about that though.
warm snow
aphrodite's aid solves this problems
fluid trench
probably?
solid cairn
charm is just a good status
fluid trench
greater call is a duration thing for dio right
cunning urchin
Dionysus' Aid loses damage when used as a Greater Call instead of 4x Lesser Call.
winter sable
wrong channel ooop
onyx parcel
Dionysus' Aid loses damage when used as a Greater Call instead of 4x Lesser Call.
@cunning urchin wait really???
onyx parcel
Who else should I not wait for full gauge?
onyx parcel
U get I frames when using call?
cunning urchin
Well, Athena's Aid I guess is fine either way, and Aphrodite's Aid depends on whether you have enough levels on it for the Charm to matter.
onyx parcel
Even the small call?
cunning urchin
Yes, you get i-frames on activation of Call or Summon.
Yes, even for lesser calls.
robust geyser
For how long?
robust geyser
👁️👄👁️
cunning urchin
I dunno, somewhere around dash i-frames? It's pretty lenient.
robust geyser
Interesting.
rare kayak
if i had to take a bet its the amount of time that zag spends posing when you use a call and dont interrupt the animation
drifting vale
Jojo pose
rare kayak
not really jojo pose it looks more like uhh
my anime memory isnt good enough for this
unkempt pagoda
zagreus taunting button when
rare kayak
god he really needs to taunt his dad more when he goes ghost
unkempt pagoda
we had salutes in pyre!
rare kayak
i really wish i could hear zag say "DaRkNeSs" whenever hades does too
cunning urchin
That wouldn't fit the mood.
rare kayak
it sure wouldnt
but it would be funny
hey nyaa
does charm make voidstones invul you
unkempt pagoda
i think it fits the mood ||after the credits/epilogue||
rare kayak
man that sucks
cunning urchin
Who is a man that sucks?
rare kayak
me when i have a straw
cunning urchin
I see. Is that what I should call you, then?
rare kayak
no straw rn so
hearty elbow
Who else should I not wait for full gauge?
@onyx parcel @mighty ermine and I discussed this... At length. There are a number of situations where it's optimal to wait on greater calls because of how boss fights line up provided your mechanics are good enough to not get hit. E.g. Part 2 of phase 2 Dad is very very fast, and has no more invuln or disappear phases, so popping say Greater Athena or Poseidon calls lets you abuse the duration multiplier to burn down the boss in that window.
rare kayak
oh that reminds me that i havent done em4 yet
cunning urchin
You can probably skip the entirety of phase 2 part 2 with Poseidon's Aid + some poms or t2 boons and Eris.
rare kayak
presumably ill probably die but itll be fun
unkempt pagoda
eris ❤️
rare kayak
yeah that one boon that boosts damage of knockback attacks on bosses does really good work with poseidon's aid
hearty elbow
I'm not talking about EM4 fwiw. You will live and die by your lesser calls there. RIP in pepperinos
cunning urchin
The real answer is to get Smoldering Air and spam Call ever 5 seconds.
rare kayak
yeah i know but i saw phase 2 dad and was reminded of em4
rare kayak
the real answer is to forget to use your call and only use it like once in the entire fight because the greater call prompt pops up actually
solid cairn
guys I found out why I kept dying with rail. I realized that standing right next to enemies with a ranged weapon is a terrible idea that I should not do
unkempt pagoda
lmao
rare kayak
bayonet rail when?
solid cairn
ive been using sword too much
hearty elbow
Pff nah, point blank special Zag bow is super fun
unkempt pagoda
it's hard when bullets don't flinch anybody 😔
cunning urchin
I thought your solution was getting Spread Fire.
rare kayak
aspect of the unknown soldier
its a rail with a bayonet but it also jams 70% of the time woo
cunning urchin
Standing right next to enemies with a gun works work much better if that gun is a shotgun.
rare kayak
oh yeah spread fire is sick
cunning urchin
And it's you who has the gun, not your enemies.
unkempt pagoda
does spread fire stun enemies?
cunning urchin
No.
rare kayak
honestly no clue but it does a lot of damage
unkempt pagoda
lol
cunning urchin
It deletes them.
rare kayak
its like 100 base or something
you'll probably see them die before you see them stunned
hearty elbow
And it's you who has the gun, not your enemies.
@cunning urchin Inb4 Elysium Greatgunners
unkempt pagoda
shotgun blast to the face? no sweat - louts, probably
rare kayak
is it just me or do elysium bowmen actually aim now
cunning urchin
Greatshieldgunners
hearty elbow
They definitely aimed before. 0/10 can attest with my deaths.
rare kayak
i swear to someone that ive been getting hit by the arrows more often but maybe im just bad?
cunning urchin
Aim? I thought they 360 no-scoped.
hearty elbow
Yeah with FO2 it's very close to hitscan
unkempt pagoda
now that i think about it, i haven't been stunlocked to death by a room of elite bowmen in a while
rare kayak
oh actually i really love elysium in terms of game design aspect because it teaches you theseus mechanics
unkempt pagoda
maybe i should turn on bp2 and fo2 again
rare kayak
for example, bowmen teach you the prompt for theseus throwing spear
and flame wheels teach you that its useless to try and escape from asterios
hearty elbow
Lmao
rare kayak
game design aspect is the new hidden aspect btw
cunning urchin
I still say the reticle on Zag from Strongbows is utterly useless.
rare kayak
its useless because it doesnt show where the attack's coming from but in a one on one its relatively useful
cunning urchin
@hearty elbow begone, blackguard! 🔫 
unkempt pagoda
that game design principle is all over the game
hearty elbow
Lololol, that word was added to Proxy? Well played.
cunning urchin
Which word? Could you tell us?
unkempt pagoda
like the new delta strike and dire skullcrusher waves teaching redacted waves
rare kayak
yeah its
||joe||
so out of the three which island is your favourite island of em2 lernie
unkempt pagoda
top left
rare kayak
mines top right because you get to hit 4 heads at once
cunning urchin
The only purpose the reticle serves is telling you that you're 100% going to take damage in a moment from some off-screen enemy.
unkempt pagoda
right island is a nightmare realm
rare kayak
it is but if youve got great damage output it ends phase 2.5 quicker
unkempt pagoda
bottom left is okay but i still get confused there sometimes
rare kayak
although the times when ive used sisyphus on top left and bottom island ive never taken lava damage from picking up coin and darkness whereas on top right island theyre prone to flying away
ive lost at least three dds to that
cunning urchin
My favorite island is whichever island doesn't have white Lernie heads.
unkempt pagoda
smashers?
cunning urchin
Head slams, yeah.
hearty elbow
It's just... So fun when 3 spawn in range on one island.
rare kayak
thats top right island
4 heads phase 2.5 youll lose like 75 health but you'll save maybe three seconds
hearty elbow
If you're melee wtf is even the play with FO2 lol
rare kayak
definitely worth trust me
unkempt pagoda
obviously the correct choice is making a fourth island with excal
cunning urchin
White main head with FO2 is unpleasant. That fight will inevitably have some unfair moments.
rare kayak
honestly speaking of lava i feel like every run i lose an average of 10 health from lava because i try to board boats from the lava bits
which is why i dont play with trap heat
unkempt pagoda
smasher main hydra is a bad omen for me, it always manages to kill my runs
rare kayak
wave head is probably my worst main head if i dont have deflect dash i think
otherwise yeah smasher head
unkempt pagoda
it's like getting clipped by (em4 spoilers) ||cerberus in em4|| but it's just 9 damage but all the time
cunning urchin
Can't say that happens to me lol. Just be careful when going for the exit.
rare kayak
i cant space wave head im just real bad with that
hearty elbow
I find the neutral pewpew Lernie head to be the most dangerous if I don't have Divine Dash. It's easy to dodge by itself but it's pretty hard if you're in the middle of a bunch of other heads.
rare kayak
ok but nyaanyaa i could save like 1 second and it looks totally tubular
unkempt pagoda
i don't find spike lernie head that annoying, but the spike support heads are annoying as hell
ties with wave support heads imo
cunning urchin
Pew-pew Lernie is also unfun.
hearty elbow
Is there a new wave pattern in Test?
unkempt pagoda
eh
cunning urchin
The summons are whatever. I don't even notice them.
hearty elbow
I saw 3 growing waves yesterday
cunning urchin
Green Lernie was busted in the beta lol.
hearty elbow
I don't think I saw that pattern (think wifi arcs) before
cunning urchin
Oh lol.
unkempt pagoda
summon support heads are inconsequential, the main one can be somewhat annoying
rare kayak
they teleport away and are annoying
i think ive seen that one and i only play main branch
cunning urchin
They are like natural BP1 enemies lol.
rare kayak
god they keep teleporting and its even worse on the bigger asphodel chambers
just the worst
cunning urchin
@hearty elbow that doesn't sound new.
unkempt pagoda
dracons are annoying but you learn to deal with them lol
rare kayak
also yeah green lernie was kinda busted
i think it summoned a skull crusher every time
and the skull crushers it summoned had basically 0 second cue before they came down
cunning urchin
It just never stopped summoning lol.
That was the issue.
Now there's a limit to how many summons there are at a time, I'm pretty sure.
rare kayak
it was kinda both of those, just being able to slam down a skull crusher any second without notice is just bad
personally, at least
cunning urchin
You'd get swarmed by more and more Bone-Rakers.
cunning urchin
They also didn't die when you killed Lernie lol.
rare kayak
wait no i think youre bringing back my memories now
man there sure are a lot of enemies in the game i hate huh
wretched sneak
unkempt pagoda
sneak is annoying, but you learn to deal lol
cunning urchin
Frustrating enemies feel all the more satisfying to overcome.
They need to be the right kind of frustrating, though.
solid cairn
ok I love eris rail now I just had a run with athena call where I was nearly invincible
rare kayak
sneak is just annoying with how little vulnerability he has
unkempt pagoda
slow weapons really suffer though, prefer doomstone
hearty elbow
I've grown a love hate with FO2 Asterius. His charge is... Something. But he's graceful the way he dodges and dances around pillars. Like if he was a bull in a China shop he'd miss all of the dishes.
rare kayak
when u doing excalibur td3 runs and u meet sneak
cunning urchin
Then bring the whole shop down when he slams into the support pillar.
unkempt pagoda
asterius is very polite
hearty elbow
Lol if Zagreus was outside the China shop and Asterius was on the opposite side that place would be immaculate when he left
rare kayak
asterius has some weird interactions with the ||hades call||
solid cairn
and whoever said smoldering air was a great idea I agree
it opens up a whole new way of playing
unkempt pagoda
theseus would just throw his spear through a rack of china without regard, if it meant hitting zag
rare kayak
and by whole new way its "spam call button"
outer oar
smoldering air is cool since you get more iframes
rare kayak
and then he would blame zag for it
solid cairn
I mean most of hades gameplay is spam buttons depending on aspect
outer oar
arent all games just spam buttons
other than SRPGs i guess
and turn based stuff in general
cunning urchin
It's a good thing I don't play much anymore, or they would see a whole series of very high heat runs all with Smoldering Air and nerf it. 👀
solid cairn
I have not tried EM4 yet and I am very scared
rare kayak
nyaanyaa waiting for development to finish
i havent tried em4 yet and im assuming hades just pulls out his glock in that one
hearty elbow
I have not tried EM4 yet and I am very scared
@solid cairn pro tip don't use HL5 and FO2.
outer oar
nah he doesnt pull an isshin on you
cunning urchin
Pro? You're getting money for playing Hades now?
rare kayak
what if he did tho
hearty elbow
I play while I work lol.
rare kayak
its a pro tip because ledgerdamayn is using "tips" to extort money from people here
hearty elbow
From home. So... Kinda
rare kayak
😔
cunning urchin
Sketchy.
rare kayak
i feel like i should learn ruthless reflex
hearty elbow
This is a mugging. Give your bits. I also accept gifted subs.
rare kayak
like on one hand the lack of additional dash is kinda sketch but on the other hand, that 50% damage and dodge tho... 👀
solid cairn
don't learn useless reflex
cunning urchin
Just learn RI3.
hearty elbow
like on one hand the lack of additional dash is kinda sketch but on the other hand, that 50% damage and dodge tho... 👀
@rare kayak It's most reasonable with Fist4, if literally anything but ME worked on Fist4
rare kayak
haha i had a fist 4 me run but it was doom special and athena attack
hearty elbow
As it stands, nothing but ME works... So Ruthless bad.
rare kayak
lets just say i died on hades
cunning urchin
Somebody yesterday said to apply Maim and run.
It's a valid tactic.
Not with TD, of course.
But valid.
solid cairn
maim takes way too long to do the burst of damage
rare kayak
i figured that since maim is delayed damage and doom is delayed damage so doom special is like super doom
spoilers, it was not super doom
solid cairn
doom applies much much faster
outer oar
the hammer that makes them take more damage when maim is up is nice
hearty elbow
Yeah you can doom the poop out of stuff with Curse of Longing
rare kayak
and also yknow dont put doom on your laggy special if youre going for me
put it on your slightly less laggy attack
cunning urchin
I'm sorry for laughing very much at your idea.
rare kayak
dont be it was very bad
unkempt pagoda
curse of longing works on maim, for some reason lol
rare kayak
on the other hand i recently beat my fastest time with me demeter
an actual me demeter
unkempt pagoda
i imagine maim works on the same mechanics as doom so CoL picks it up as a valid doomy thing
hearty elbow
You're still frozen in a hyperbolic time animation when you use dash upper though lol
cunning urchin
@unkempt pagoda F10 that lol.
rare kayak
only by like 30 seconds and i lost like two dds on hades because i abandoned all defense to output more damage though
unkempt pagoda
oh i haven't experienced it myself, been telling people to f10 it whenever they talk about it here
cunning urchin
There's no way that's not a bug.
hearty elbow
It's sweet, why report. It's not even good lol
cunning urchin
Because we want to help SGG to make the best game possible.
narrow rampart
mmm, is the cold embrace bug on Hera fixed?
cunning urchin
Unlike you. You just want to mug people. 
unkempt pagoda
non-viable unintended stuff is still unintended 😛
narrow rampart
valid
unkempt pagoda
what's the cold embrace bug?
narrow rampart
basically it targets the entity closest to the cast after you fire it
haedalyn had it on stream a month back I think
Idk if it's been fixed since then
narrow rampart
the aphro/demeter duo
rare kayak
oh that one
fair plinth
so what's a good weapon to combo with the final boss keepsake? Gonna work on leveling it up over the next few runs
narrow rampart
that makes demeters cast deal more damage but target you instead
rare kayak
the one thats really awkward to use
narrow rampart
yep
the bug kinda makes it viable tho!
basically the Artemis/Demeter duo but with more damage
hearty elbow
so what's a good weapon to combo with the final boss keepsake? Gonna work on leveling it up over the next few runs
@fair plinth all of them are equally bad with it
solid cairn
damn chiron special goes super well with demeter special
fair plinth
I hear its alright with the hades spear aspect?
hearty elbow
Full cosplay build
narrow rampart
damn chiron special goes super well with demeter special
especially if you get arctic blast
fair plinth
invis into a big spin
narrow rampart
well, frankly, only if you go arctic blast
unkempt pagoda
you can't even do that because you have to strike before you spin
fair plinth
I'm still on low heat (sub 10) so i figured I'll get keepsake leveling done before thing gets harder
hmm
what about with a special-focused build on guan yu
errant narwhal
@fair plinth do you happen to have ||sigil of the dead|| at level 1?
fair plinth
yeah, mine's completely unleveled
errant narwhal
could you tell me whats the ||stealth damage bonus|| for it? when you go into a run
fair plinth
aight
errant narwhal
thank you 🙏
fair plinth
completing the wiki?
errant narwhal
yep lol
fair plinth
👍 I've made my share of edits there too 🙂
red mist
yooooo
I just cleared 16 heat
it's only gonna go up from here.... on weapons I'm comfy on anyway
solid cairn
so chiron demeter special fell off in damage really fast
red mist
I like artemis chiron better for that reason
thorny basin
I really want Lucifer but man there are so many requirements to unlock everything
red mist
eris is already quite strong so I'll save lucifer for later
glass ether
aspect of ||gilgamesh|| seems quite ridiculous?
solid cairn
nope
glass ether
so I had lucky build then
solid cairn
the chiron run was supposed to just be to get one blood to max the aspect but it ended up going to hades on 16 heat
problem is I forgot to change my keepsake from acorn
bow is only like 5 heat for me so I at least want to get something good on it
uhh relentless volley start
pretty great
chaos special boon
fair plinth
@errant narwhal it's 50%, literally says on the boon lol
||I wonder if you can sell the hades call from his keepsake for underworld customs?||
lapis matrix
Hmm, Curse of Drowning feels a bit weird to me
empty veldt
Chiron damage with Artemis/Aphrodite is really good. It works well on high heat cause its good against bows weaknesses imo: Damage control heat and Armor
Bow’s generally struggle against damage control and bow’s high base damage doesnt spill over after dealing with armor. Since Chiron special is a lot of small hits, it works well against both of these situations
drifting vale
@fair plinth it's not a boon so no
fair plinth
but it is...
stiff stone
narrow rampart
Chiron special with the one hammer that makes it pierce and deal extra damage to armor is also really good!
turbid needle
They were incompatible for the longest time and I goofed and didn't spend Blood on Chiron.
empty veldt
I would say the one that gives more damage per hit and more arrows is better
turbid needle
Well, I guess I do have my complete save file so I could just grind out a try.
narrow rampart
i take both, usually, if im going for a purely special run
drifting vale
Both are really strong on chiron
narrow rampart
but yeah +4 arrows and perfect shot are pretty much my go to on Chiron
turbid needle
Piercing is better for mobs, Concentrated is better against bosses, but given that boss damage is the most important tool in the game...
empty veldt
Also, dont make the mistake of running zeus on chiron, since zeus special has internal cooldown and chiron special is too fast
turbid needle
Yup.
empty veldt
I mean it still works just not optimally
turbid needle
I think Sea Storm worked optimally at one point.
narrow rampart
i was so bummed when I first found out that Zeus special basically doesn't work as expected on Chiron
empty veldt
Same with Rama Special
It was nerfed, but they made bows an overall much better weapon
unkempt pagoda
it's better with rama special imo
empty veldt
And bow’s in a good spot imo, literally every single bow is good now
unkempt pagoda
yeah, i think
unkempt pagoda
it's the replacement charged volley for chiron
narrow rampart
empty veldt
Yeah since chiron cant get charged volley, concentrated volley is good
unkempt pagoda
the charged volley chiron days were so, so good
empty veldt
Concentrated + relentless is the go to for chiron now
narrow rampart
I started playing right after they removed charged volley for chiron
sad
Chiron was probably my favourite aspect back then
turbid needle
Concentrated is a nice compromise.
narrow rampart
probably still is
empty veldt
I usually go aspect of zag or rama. Then chiron, with Hera being my least played bow aspect
Zag because of innate crit is always really nice and Twin + Flurry is bonkers
Rama because well Rama
narrow rampart
indeed
empty veldt
I’m becoming much more appreciative of Chain shot now as well
empty veldt
Nothing beats twin + flurry on zag ahahahaha
narrow rampart
yep, pretty much
unkempt pagoda
twin, my one true love
empty veldt
Sniper shot is bad tho imo. Repulse shot also complete garbage
Twin on rama
Uuggghhh
So good
So much damage
narrow rampart
Honestly I like explosive + either triple or twin on Rama
And just use it like a shotgun
red mist
yeah I figure that damage control is a significant part of the high heat meta
it invalidates big, sluggish hitters
for the most part, anyway
solid cairn
chiron 18 heat done easily
solid cairn
now I just need to get shield to 16+ heat
empty veldt
Chiron doesnt worry about DC
solid cairn
yeah I had DC2
I am terrible with shield and I dont even like it so it wont be very enjoyable
empty veldt
The most annoying room would be with DC with Benefits Package 2 and its nothing but Numbskulls with shields perk and you cant break through the DC fast enough before they recharge them
With TD, it just kills your run with Zag or Hera Bow in my experience
prime crown
If I turn forced overtime on, should I just... Keep it on? It feels like a lot of the difficulty with it would be constantly changing the attack speed of all the bosses, rather then being faster then slower.
solid cairn
you get used to it
prime crown
Yeah, that's what I was thinking
I assumed me changing it constantly would probably be worse then anything else
snow furnace
You definitely can get accustomed to both with practice
empty veldt
My 32 heat bow was with EM4
snow furnace
FO has the benefit of speeding up spawn times as well, and EM4 is a time sink so I usually will take FO first but it depends on how high heat I’m doing and what weapon
Yeah melee hates EM4
But ranged can do consistently well
empty veldt
I had a run where i almost comleted 32 heat rail, but satyrs screwed me and i only had 2min 30 sec left on EM4 boss. I never felt so salty
empty veldt
I didnt even take damage from boss itself...
I had tiny vermin on satyr and sack was in last room i checked
I was so mad
snow furnace
Yep that’s what happened to me
I barely won and was seconds from dying to tuner
*timer
I was sure glad I didn’t put on EM4 that time I would have been screwed
snow furnace
You could go serrated probably or even a cast build
Obviously if you can go serrated I recommend it
empty veldt
Achilles very flexible
Hades falls into the problem of Spin being risky, and spin debuff doesnt affect additional spin damage
red mist
I would be surprised if he wasn't flexible
empty veldt
Getting Quick spin on Hades spear is a godsend
red mist
Also DC is a problem for them
snow furnace
Hades is fine still because getting 150% on a serrated build or even a special build is no joke. Also bosses often leave openings long enough even with FO to get spun on, and you can charge your spin up while enemies spawn in
Achilles takes some spacing, which also won’t always be easy
DC is a problem for a lot of weapons too
Achilles also has annoying problems with needing to use all 4 moves to charge again
hearty elbow
If you get good at flicking the stick forward to dash strike after dashing backward, it's pretty easy to arrange small spins even with FO2
unkempt zephyr
For melee weapons DC easy to negate with Dio with Peer Pressure. or just zeus with High Voltage. i solve problem DC on artir with this. im use dash zeus or dash dio.
unkempt zephyr
ahilies not bad. just take zeus cast or poseidon. and take on attack or special some God with Huge base damage.
snow furnace
Ye and the rush can be some neat maneuvering tech occasionally
I just disagreed about hades not being flexible compared to Achilles or being weak
unkempt zephyr
i pref hades spear. becaus can kill enemy befor they can even attack.
solid cairn
guan yu is a better spin aspect than hades and a better special aspect than zag lol
unkempt zephyr
nope. becaus hades can insta kill almost all room when they spawn
snow furnace
I actually don’t take guan yu just because I rely on the health and stubborn defiance on high heat
It’s very strong though
solid cairn
my highest heat is like 20 lol I could probably go higher but I've been doing other things
unkempt zephyr
My 32 on artur and 32 on claws(gilgamesh)
solid cairn
I just am not a fan of the normal spin
Probably gonna do 32 heat on like nemesis first
or eris rail
smoky atlas
do you even have time to spin with FO
proven osprey
Just unlocked the bow 4th, any idea about a build ?
solid cairn
achiless just seems inferior to poseidon sword
onyx parcel
Yea idk about achilles
solid cairn
you need the hermes boon that makes casts dislodge faster
smoky atlas
achiles gives more dmg to certain cast builds
like blizzard shot or blade rift
since you dont need to dislodge
just quickly achilles rush in a corner somewhere then spam casts
onyx parcel
I did a Zeus cast run with my first run of achilles
Felt pretty good
But I hate how it performs in boss battles
smoky atlas
i usually just use the rush to run away from boss
solid cairn
that's the trade off
smoky atlas
or to rush over to where the shards are
150% cast dmg is too good compared to 50% on poseidon sword i think
snow furnace
you need to just play a little bit more calculated
with achilles
because you need to use all 4 attacks/casts to recharge
can't rush after using a couple moves and regain the 4 uses
snow furnace
they are different weapons
onyx parcel
Seems like Poseidon and Zeus casts are the best
solid cairn
true, they are effective in different cases
snow furnace
special is questionable because you don't get the bonus from achilles and might as well go hades
but still fine
solid cairn
poseidon for stuff that sticks into enemies, achilles for everything else
snow furnace
because you're going to be using it anyway
smoky atlas
flood shot, blizzard shot, blade rift, trippy shot (with zeus/demeter duo) are all great for achilles in my exp
solid cairn
I've seen people use the hourglass to stack a bunch of extra casts
snow furnace
yes that's a common strat
in styx
super nice
if you have a lot of rerolls
you can actually reroll twice after buying something to get it again
I think you have to reroll once before though
it's weird
but I've manipulated it to get tons of casts and damage which kinda shreds
especially on a rift or beam bonus dps or casts are great
smoky atlas
wonder what the highest possible cast count is
with chaos, artemis and charon wells
but theres no limit with chaos is there
snow furnace
no limit
solid cairn
well the limit is amount of rooms in a run
snow furnace
but you need to get a lot of chaos, wells, the artemis legendary
or rerolls
like I said you can manipulate wells with rerolls to get the same item over and over
takes a lot though
smoky atlas
had a run with 7 casts once