h1-builds-and-combat

[solid raptor]

As I already have 1 point in achilles spear

But none in zag

[mighty ermine]

it's just silly when every non-GY spear is written off while hades and achilles both have some significant strengths

zag is mostly underwhelming unless you run flurry jab or exploding launcher

[livid comet]

oh I thought you meant maxed zag

nvm

[jaunty locust]

I think I'm ready to get GY, and I'm just waiting around for ||achilles|| to get off his bloody lunch break

[pseudo ledge]

Go on 15 round streak... get rekd by a great shield in elysium

oof

[dense star]

Elite Shielder, the true boss of Elysium...

[pseudo ledge]

to be fair, I lost 2 lives to the hydra which hasnt happened in a long time

[sharp anvil]

959/960 for the titan blood ._.

[frozen dock]

Dash attacks on spear has so much potential

Just finished a run with just dash attacks and no boons on my attack or cast

[mighty ermine]

serrated point is one of spear's absolute best hammers!

[hollow geyser]

Melee weapons vs hydra seems a bit hard with EM on right. Especially the fists. How do you play around that? Am I missing something

[sharp anvil]

Are Zagreus fists worth investing into? I feel like they'd be great with a plume run

[turbid needle]

Super good.

[twilit pond]

Aspect of Chaos or Zeus for Shield?

[turbid needle]

chaos

[spiral tree]

how do you all feel about dionysis?

I might have been under valuing him

hangover on attack isn't bad is it?

[frozen dock]

i dont like it

dionysis has alot of great support skills

like the love goddess

[unkempt pagoda]

hangover needs something faster to apply quickly, and you really need levels on it

[hearty elbow]

Dionysus Aid is one of the highest damage boons in the game

[proven osprey]

hey guys, what special would you recommend for Chiron ? I did some run with Artemis and it was awesome

[unkempt pagoda]

if you want to build into hangover, the perfect core to get all hangover related duos would be dio/ares/artemis/aphrodite

preferably on eris if you want to entirely go hangover

hey guys, what special would you recommend for Chiron ? I did some run with Artemis and it was awesome
i go demeter for arctic blast

[shadow shadow]

does doom stack i can never tell

[frozen dock]

isnt ares aid strongest?

damage wise

done like 5k+ on hades with it once

[hearty elbow]

There's opportunity cost of also still being able to act with Dio's Aid up

And it not impeding your movement

[unkempt pagoda]

ares aid barely lasts a second, while dio aid's hangover will last all 4 seconds with a really high base damage (and still having control over yourself)

[frozen dock]

i always use greater call on ares

[unkempt pagoda]

there could be an argument to be made about greater calls, but i don't really use them

[frozen dock]

if his hangover has alot of debuffs then i use his aid

only time i use small call is when im about to take damage

and ares aid makes you invincible during that time

[hearty elbow]

Dio Greater Call is trash

There is no point

[mighty ermine]

even with ares' greater call, the way it limits you only to that aid's specific damage output and potentially vicious cycle (which does help a lot) makes it not the best kind of by default

[turbid needle]

It's one of the weaker Greater Calls, but it's not trash.

[frozen dock]

i guess its just down to preference

[mighty ermine]

yeah

[turbid needle]

You keep a super high Hangover stack maxed out for a long time.

[hearty elbow]

It means you've screwed up and lost damage from 4x small calls lol

[unkempt pagoda]

as someone who basically only uses small calls, ares aid doesn't help at all because it barely lasts long enough to function, meaning its only purpose is as a panic button

[turbid needle]

Yeah, okay.

[fluid scaffold]

hey guys, what special would you recommend for Chiron ? I did some run with Artemis and it was awesome
Going back on Dionysus, if you get Hangover special + Aphrodite attack it's kind of the perfect storm of skills with Chiron

[unkempt pagoda]

while other calls can be used as panic buttons and do something else significant

[fluid scaffold]

it opens up the max poison stacks duo skill and works great with hammers that improve special

plus you get the mirror curse damage for free and weak is just super nice

[jade rover]

Am I the only one who feels that Hestia can get a bit... Buggy? Sometimes, it fires the first round, but holding the attack doesn't do anything, and then it'll fire a second empowered shot?

[unkempt pagoda]

hestia doesn't feel buggy to me

[mighty ermine]

@proven osprey demeter is also a pretty good base for chiron special; decent +% scaling with strong T2s and winter harvest potential. arctic blast in particular becomes easy to proc with chiron

[unkempt pagoda]

if it continues that way, i'd f10

[spiral tree]

i just started a run and i have passion dash with hangover attack boon....now I have option for drunken dash heroic but it will replace passion dash should I?

or no

[unkempt pagoda]

passion dash is a little hard to apply, but if you already have a hangover boon, drunken dash won't do much

[fluid scaffold]

depends on weapon, usually no need to stack weak procs but the damage might be worth it

[spiral tree]

i have spear

[unkempt pagoda]

plus you have the chance to get low tolerance

[fluid scaffold]

oh the dash not weapon, ehh better to keep some form of weak

[hearty elbow]

Drunken Dash can be actively detrimental since you can only have 5 stacks on anyone at a time

[spiral tree]

after party, numbing sensation, drunken dash heroic

which one

numbing seems best

since I havbe attack hangover boon

[hearty elbow]

If you already have Hnagover somewhere, Numbing Sensation is excellent.

[mighty ermine]

yes, numbing is pretty underrated

[spiral tree]

I do

[unkempt pagoda]

i'd go numbing

[mighty ermine]

it's very useful

[spiral tree]

and I have triple spear thing

[unkempt pagoda]

it has a surprisingly high slowdown

[mighty ermine]

serrated point with drunken strike? definitely numbing

no question

or you mean triple jab

[spiral tree]

I feel triple spear upgrade is as much a MUST for spear as cursed slash is for blades

[mighty ermine]

still good

[spiral tree]

the hitbox on single spear so small lol

[unkempt pagoda]

hmm... considering the possibility of

• abyssal blood
• chill
• numbing sensation
  👀

and targeting system from rail

[mighty ermine]

this needs to be done oh my gods

[fluid scaffold]

I feel triple spear upgrade is as much a MUST for spear as cursed slash is for blades
Hearing cursed slash called a Must is news to me

[hearty elbow]

• Excalibur w/ Greater Consecration

[fluid scaffold]

I agree but I thought it was an unpopular opinion

[mighty ermine]

cursed slash is extremely far from must imo lol

[spiral tree]

SIGH

[unkempt pagoda]

oh, greater consecration is better than targeting system

[spiral tree]

just finished trial room

[unkempt pagoda]

but it'd be hard to apply chill fast on excal

[hearty elbow]

I like MIstral Dash

[spiral tree]

heartbreak strike which will replace drunken strike/heartbreak flourish/sweet surrender

I am guessing surrender?

since i have passion dash

[unkempt pagoda]

surrender yeah

[proven osprey]

ty guys

[unkempt pagoda]

surrender works on hangover

[mighty ermine]

i actually haven't tried abyssal blood since it had been fixed in 1.0, how is it?

[hearty elbow]

(that's about all it works on lol)

[fluid scaffold]

with excalibur you can take the full chill upon getting hit and just facetank

[turbid needle]

Surrender works on Than.

[unkempt pagoda]

ever since i figured out abyssal blood also lowers damage, i've been considering it more and more

i usually take it on exit wounds pos-sword builds

[spiral tree]

i can buy both hermes and demter upgrades in charons room....should I skip them and hold out for ares ans artemis? since I got aph and dio already

[fluid scaffold]

I like boiling blood too much since it gives me an excuse to not have to aim my cast as well

ares and artemis don't mesh too well with aphro/dio if you're committing to that, though just having a mix of all is also fine

probably pick up hermes at least

[turbid needle]

Artemis neatly slots in with Heart Rend and Splitting Headache.

If you've got Low Tolerance that's 12% universal crit chance with full stacks.

[unkempt pagoda]

now consider:

• abyssal blood
• greater consecration
• weak + broken resolve
• different league
• bronze skin
• myrmidon bracer

[spiral tree]

if you want to build into hangover, the perfect core to get all hangover related duos would be dio/ares/artemis/aphrodite
@unkempt pagoda

@fluid scaffold

[hearty elbow]

Since Splitting Headache is global it'll let Heart Rend apply to Hangover

[spiral tree]

lol

[hearty elbow]

*I think

[turbid needle]

That is correct.

[fluid scaffold]

oh specifically for the duos sure

[unkempt pagoda]

yep

[spiral tree]

so pickup hermes only do not also buy demeter?

[turbid needle]

Same with Pressure Points.

[fluid scaffold]

but to get duos you only need one skill of each right?

[hearty elbow]

Cores typically

[turbid needle]

The particular prereqs, which are shown in the Codex Index.

[lavish breach]

The codex will show you what’s needed for duos and legendaries. Codex is op.

[spiral tree]

quick recovery/swift strike epic/hyper sprint

?

[turbid needle]

Rule is take a movement buff boon if you don't have one yet.

[hearty elbow]

Lol, I like the "he said she said" game of divining truth from anecdotal evidence that was figuring out Duos and additive/multiplicative damage in Blood Price.

[unkempt pagoda]

my preferred method with eris is dio attack, artemis special, ares cast, aphro dash. this gets you all hangover duos, heart rend, and hunting blades

[mighty ermine]

i will never forget that i ended up being right about heart rend

[lavish breach]

Hunting blades 😍 mmmmm

[spiral tree]

soo which one @turbid needle ? lol

none of them give me an extra dash

[turbid needle]

I didn't say extra dash.

[unkempt pagoda]

swift strike for hangover application

[hearty elbow]

Yeah, Hyper Sprint is fine or whatever, but Epic Swift Strike is insane

Quick Recovery is there to fill in your codex and to troll you immensely with AP2

[turbid needle]

Why I don't use Approval Process.

[unkempt pagoda]

quick recovery isn't awful lol, it's just a form of dr that isn't actually dr

[hearty elbow]

It's the worst of boons that do literally something, the vast majority of the time.

[fair plinth]

yeeezus, zag stygian, piercing wave hammer, divine strike/dash/phalanx

fastest run i've had so far

everything melts and I'm damn near invulnerable

cleared first 2 zones under 10 minutes

[spiral tree]

holy cow

epic swift strike is soooo good

especially with triple jab and hangover attack boon

[unkempt pagoda]

one day imma record the new delta chamber and upload it here, to prove myself wrong from all the times i called it trash

[spiral tree]

I always take refreshing nectar from eurydice

[hearty elbow]

Eh, it's not "especially" hangover. It helps, but you'd see the results a lot more on Zeus

[spiral tree]

it seems clearly the best no matter the build

[hearty elbow]

In practice, Eurydice's buffs are sorted in order of power

Descending.

[fluid scaffold]

I like the rarity increasing one since I often get super stingy with skills I pick

[fair plinth]

when you start playing with the travel tax you may want the upgrade instead, then pick filler boons to sell

[fluid scaffold]

then again I often lose as a consequence

[hearty elbow]

There are instances where Refreshing is good, particularly if you're chasing a Duo Boon, but usually it's because your boons up to that point are poop and there's no point levelling or pom'ing them lol

[mighty ermine]

i almost never take refreshing nectar, myself

have maybe taken it three times ever tops

[fair plinth]

but yes, nectar is generally the best

[spiral tree]

really?

[mighty ermine]

not that it's bad, really

[fair plinth]

in terms of raw value

[spiral tree]

yeah I just never felt the other 2 are nearly as good as nectar

[mighty ermine]

i'm just always in a situation where i already have boons i want to keep and get going for the rest of the run

[hearty elbow]

Yeah I've taken it single digits for sure. The only instance I'll take it is if I have already seen 2 gods I need a duo from in Tartarus, I have the appropriate keepsake, I haven't seen the mini-boss in Asphodel yet, and I can't benefit a lot from extra rarity/poms

[unkempt pagoda]

if i get unlucky and i don't have the duos i need by aspho, i'll consider nectar

[hearty elbow]

That's SOOOOO many ifs

[fair plinth]

the early hammer usually decides the main source of damage I'll be using, and I generally want at least a rare if not epic buff for that damage source

[spiral tree]

light of ixion worth it?

[fair plinth]

if I only get normal buffs in zone 1 i'll skip

[hearty elbow]

Yeah, Light of Ixion is great

Conditionally

[fair plinth]

@spiral tree depending on which room you're in and build

do you want a specific damage source getting massively buffed? is it in the boss clear room's well that you're buying?

[spiral tree]

already got it lol

[fair plinth]

generally I avoid buying it in the boss clear room, since zone 2 map 1 has a high chance of hermes (which I want), and elysium map 1 has a high chance of hammer (also better)

[spiral tree]

drunken flourish/trippy shot/strong drink all ofthem epic

?

[sharp anvil]

I'm using Chiron
With chill on my main attack, I tag the enemy
I then special, which has weak
Will weak be applied on the first arrow of the volley, then have the rest of the volley arrows have privileged status damage, or will it only be on the next volley?

[spiral tree]

going with strong drink

[fair plinth]

first arrow

@spiral tree yep strong drink is good

[spiral tree]

store/pom/centaur heart

halp

[fair plinth]

unless you're running the double status bonus damage perk on the mirror, dio's drunk status is kinda meh

how much gold do you have

[spiral tree]

333

[fair plinth]

store imo

you have enough to buy a boon and pom

[spiral tree]

true shot epic/art aid rare/pressure points epic

[limber pine]

maybe just make some choices on your own and improve

[spiral tree]

trying lol

aid seems too good to pass up

[primal hazel]

All comes naturally

[spiral tree]

it does so much damage imo

[limber pine]

this isn't twitch chat

[hearty elbow]

It sounds kind of dismissive but @limber pine has the right idea. There are a lot of situations where boons will be good or bad and it's kind of the point of the game long term to determine the corner cases for all of them

[spiral tree]

art aid is prob the best aid in the game IMO

that or ares aid

[primal hazel]

Quick question
Doing a ||rama|| run
Was thinking of artemis attack/point blank/twin shot
Suitable?

[hearty elbow]

I would literally put those two calls dead last XD

By a very large margin

[mighty ermine]

same lmao

[primal hazel]

Beginner schtuff m8

[spiral tree]

art aid does so much damage compared to others

[primal hazel]

Nah

Also ares dmg hella low

[spiral tree]

i almost never use gauge if it isnt full

[hearty elbow]

Common Dio's Aid with no poms does minimum 600 damage

Common Poseidon's Aid does 250/500 damage

[limber pine]

twin shot works fine with Rama

[fair plinth]

art does the most on paper, but her charge up is ass, popping 1 arrow per charge is really meh

ares is GODLY with the legendary boon

[sharp anvil]

Athena call is the best IMO

[fair plinth]

but without it, its meh

[sharp anvil]

Allows you to dodge damage and still dish out some

[mighty ermine]

yeah, in terms of all-around value, athena's call is extremely potent

[sharp anvil]

It also makes Hades a breeze

[hearty elbow]

Poseidon
Dionysus
Athena
Zeus
Aphrodite
Demeter

---

--
Ares

Artemis

[sharp anvil]

You end up only having to dodge like half his attacks

[fair plinth]

man I still remember taking out asterius from 50% hp in one ares ult thanks to the legendary

ehhh idk i don't rank poseidon very high

[spiral tree]

pos aid is really good too

[fair plinth]

maybe its cause I play on the keyboard

[spiral tree]

due to invul

[fair plinth]

and its kinda hard to control

[hearty elbow]

Dio and Athena are pretty interchangable if you need damage or defense

[primal hazel]

I like athena because I can still do damage with my build and not just have some god do it

[fair plinth]

I imagine its a lot easier on a joypad

[limber pine]

I just WASD and try to control the runaway train

[mighty ermine]

poseidon call is best used by just zooming in a circle around what you want to kill, with bosses

does respectable damage

[spiral tree]

a couple days ago I literally took out a 90% health thesius with art aid alone

[hearty elbow]

Poseidon's does everything and has absurd buffs with Rip Current and Rupture so it just wins outright

[fair plinth]

respectable?

its the highest iirc

standalone

[mighty ermine]

compared to athena granting invincibility and allowing you to go ham

yes.

respectable.

[fair plinth]

but you need to be able to drive that runaway train

[unkempt pagoda]

i've still never gotten rip current 😭

[fair plinth]

also why do you rated dio call so high

i find it honestly ehhhhh

[unkempt pagoda]

used pos call with eris last night and it was doing 1k per hit, loved it

[hearty elbow]

@spiral tree It's a matter of variance and opportunity costs. What Artemis' can't do is be useful until you max the Gauge, which is awful considering that's so few encounters you can ever even use it in

[mighty ermine]

dio's call is incredibly good

[limber pine]

dio call has big AOE and the damage is good

[fair plinth]

like i'd rather pick demeter call over dio

[mighty ermine]

greater call isn't even needed ever

[fair plinth]

mind explaining why

[spiral tree]

LOOOOOOOOOL

[unkempt pagoda]

most greater calls are just longer duration

[spiral tree]

YO

[fossil moat]

usually use dio call to put poison on people while leaving boon slots for main abilities open

[limber pine]

Dio call is good even at level 1 for mobs

[spiral tree]

the range upgrade on spear is insane

LOL

[hearty elbow]

Math: 15 base * 2 ticks per second * 5 stacks * 4 seconds = 600 damage. Common. Level 1

[fossil moat]

insta 5 poison and a decently big buff too

[hearty elbow]

AoE

[unkempt pagoda]

all small calls give i frames, so they're great as panic buttons

[mighty ermine]

because hangover can only stack to 5 normally. greater call wastes a lot of its time by not applying any hangover to enemies that are full on it

[primal hazel]

Try flurry on spear

[hearty elbow]

You can still attack, move freely, and you get iframes

[mighty ermine]

using four lesser dio's calls will get you more value damage-wise than one greater

[fair plinth]

i know, which is why i prefer demeter, the damage might be lower but the big aoe lingering chill is quite useful too

then again, i haven't used dio call enough to make an informed opinion

[hearty elbow]

A dead enemy is the slowest enemy

[fair plinth]

its a DoT

[mighty ermine]

a very, very strong DoT

[fossil moat]

btw, sry to derail convo a bit, but just started a fists run, zagreus aspect, with +20% dodge, and lambert plume at +16.8% rn

[mighty ermine]

it's damage

[fossil moat]

ever wanted to just press left click for te whole run?

[hearty elbow]

Also Dio's Aid applies so quickly you can kind of hover for about a second, apply 5 stacks and just leave. It's not positioning dependent, they will always have the 5 stacks until completrion

Especially with FO2 enemies just often jump or leave Demeter's range

[fair plinth]

if i want to just press left click for the whole run I pick stygian with cursed slash

[hearty elbow]

Lucifer + Lightning Strike

[unkempt pagoda]

if i want to press left click for the whole run i choose flurry zag bow

[fair plinth]

toss in flurry or piercing wave

[hearty elbow]

Toss in eternal chamber if reload is too much 😛

[fossil moat]

triple beam ^

[solid cairn]

Maff

[fossil moat]

so free

[fair plinth]

im also surprised you rank zeus so high

[solid cairn]

I really really dislike laser rail

[hearty elbow]

In practice, even though I rate it higher, I typically end up having Athena's Aid more than Dionysus' Aid, but that's only because I take Owl Pendant so often lol.

[fair plinth]

zeus is garbo imo, good damage but you need to be in close range

though he has a LOT of boons to improve it

but standalone, zeus aid is probably bottom tier for me

[hearty elbow]

Zeus isn't amazing for a lot of aspects, but it's less conditional than the ones below it

[solid cairn]

I like don’t care about calls lol

Poseidon’s is a nice panic button

[hearty elbow]

You should :3. Calls are kind of fundamentally busted.

[fair plinth]

speaking of which

[mighty ermine]

calls with eris boost

[fair plinth]

does pets give i-frames?

[hearty elbow]

Yeah

[fair plinth]

awesome

only just recently unlocked it

[limber pine]

you forgot ||Hades|| call

[hearty elbow]

I did not forget his call, no

😛

[fair plinth]

still forgetting it most of the time but slowly warming up to it in my runs

[mighty ermine]

oh yeah, that goes at the bottom with artemis call

[hearty elbow]

wayy wayy

[spiral tree]

LOOOL

[mighty ermine]

it's so sad

[fossil moat]

really? free damage and dropped agro?

[spiral tree]

just used my last defy in a room full of armored great shields

[hearty elbow]

It's primary downside is coming at the cost of your keepsake slot

[spiral tree]

...

next room is patroclus

YES

[hearty elbow]

And your Call slot

So bad

[solid cairn]

How good is poseidon call in your opinions

[limber pine]

@spiral tree can you go #h1-discussion if you just want a conversation about your current run?

[turbid needle]

it doesnt even rly drop aggro

[hearty elbow]

Insane

[solid cairn]

And aphro

[mighty ermine]

the dropped aggro also doesn't do a whole lot for melee weapons with extra pact options like JS, where enemies still mindlessly lash out around them

[fair plinth]

thing is, a ranking chart doesn't really work since you can easily get another boon that completely upends the power chart

[mighty ermine]

it's not like they stop moving entirely

[hearty elbow]

Literally the only reason I take Poseidon so highly early in the run

[fair plinth]

ares legendary makes his call stupidly OP

[fossil moat]

fair fair

[fair plinth]

an epic hermes auto-gauge makes artemis a lot better

[limber pine]

why is Aphrodite call good tho?

[hearty elbow]

Charm knocks bosses out of animations

[solid cairn]

Is it that good just because you are invincible while also doing okay damage

[hearty elbow]

And causes Asterius to wreck Theseus

If you combine it with Smoldering Air you kind of broke the game

[limber pine]

mmm I guess I never thought of it that way

[mighty ermine]

also just nukes if you forget to use it regularly and build up greater

[limber pine]

I know Aphro legendary just breaks bosses

[hearty elbow]

Aphro Aid gets bonus points for A. Being a Call and B. Being half of Smoldering AIr

That's the plus with Zeus as well

Forgot to mention

Being half of Smoldering Air is a huge deal

[mighty ermine]

smoldering zeus aid is still really potent honestly

[solid cairn]

Dio call seems like it’s just better than Zeus’

[mighty ermine]

despite the nerfed damage, even one pom into a rare or higher and you're good to go

[solid cairn]

In every way

[hearty elbow]

(they nerfed Zeus' Aid, so easily yes)

[solid cairn]

It’s a close range damage call

[mighty ermine]

yup

[solid cairn]

Except it does more damage

[hearty elbow]

I mean, Athena's Call is just better than Ares' in every way lmao

Assuming you like to deal damage

with your normal build

[mighty ermine]

or just

assuming you like to deal damage

at all

[solid cairn]

Poseidon with anything that allows it to crit lol

[hearty elbow]

Poseidon with Rip Current breaks normal encounters so good.

[solid cairn]

What does rip current do again

[mighty ermine]

pulls in normal enemies while call is active and extends duration

[fair plinth]

question about styx tunnels

[hearty elbow]

Does a pulsing suck to Zagreus every some odd fractions of a second

And extends duration by 1.2+ seconds

[fair plinth]

does each tunnel after the other increase in difficulty

[limber pine]

I don't think so?

[hearty elbow]

Nope, they're all independent

[limber pine]

they seem equal

[fair plinth]

I've noticed that I tend to die in the later tunnels than the earlier ones

[hearty elbow]

It's probably because you mentally prioritize rooms you can more safely do first

[mighty ermine]

only actual difference in their balance is that the elite tunnels of course end with minibosses

[fair plinth]

yeah which is why i usually do the elite tunnels first

then the normal ones

[solid cairn]

I wish Hermes had a boon where you automatically used your call

[fair plinth]

but i end up cleaning the elite ones ezpz while the last 2 tends to eat a huge chunk outta my hp

[hearty elbow]

That would be awful

[solid cairn]

I would take that

Yes but

I’m lazy

[mighty ermine]

general consensus is that elite styx tunnels are easier and faster than normal ones, yeah (barring king vermin)

[languid pulsar]

CMOOOOOOOOOON

https://imgur.com/a/Q4nkIbf

[hearty elbow]

Seems awful enough to be a Chaos curse lol

[solid cairn]

You really expect me to remember to press cast every 3 seconds

[fair plinth]

just bind it to the same key as your attack or special lul

[languid pulsar]

IM SO MAD LMAAAO

[mighty ermine]

you gotta get used to those invuln thresholds my dude

[solid cairn]

Bro that’s big brain thank you

[hearty elbow]

Man, if we didn't need more evidence that Ares' call is poopoo

[fair plinth]

use a macro to override the settings

[solid cairn]

Ares is so cool but most of his boons are so situational

[hearty elbow]

Yeah

[fair plinth]

yeah for the god of war

he's not very combat-y

[solid cairn]

His saving grace is merciful end

Doom is a cool idea for a status effect

[languid pulsar]

[solid cairn]

Is that the damage after kill

[hearty elbow]

GY special, Beo special, Hestia

[languid pulsar]

that 7 second inv hit really hard on me

[fair plinth]

I feel Battle Rage is kinda poorly designed

[livid comet]

https://www.kotaku.com.au/2020/09/what-your-favourite-hades-weapon-says-about-you/

[solid cairn]

Bruh

Nemesis: you big chad

[livid comet]

just found this article

[limber pine]

Best pairings for Sword People: Water with lemon. Meth.
Natural Enemy: People who flavour their food.

Uh... yeah, kinda what I expected from Kotaku

[livid comet]

and my brain was like
B R U H

why even is this article

[unkempt pagoda]

bow mains rn

[solid cairn]

These have nothing to do with the game

[unkempt pagoda]

[mighty ermine]

for the love of Hades, find the Daedalus Hammer that increases your rate of fire at the expense of your power shot. Only then does the bow become useful.

[hearty elbow]

Lmao, the bow salt is real

[mighty ermine]

bad article, into the trash

[hearty elbow]

Must have been broken up with by a bow main

[solid cairn]

Wait lemme read sword

This person hasn’t experienced the pleasure that is rama

[unkempt pagoda]

they got killed by an exalted bowman and got real salty

[mighty ermine]

lol

[fair plinth]

lul

[livid comet]

[deft patrol]

im a fist person Pog

[solid cairn]

Stygian Blade wielders are the paragon of tradition. They like their coffee black and their eggs scrambled, but not too runny. They follow the rules, drive the speed limit, and leave a 15% tip on every check, every time. Sword users are the kind of people you think of when you need to file taxes or win a game of Trivial Pursuit. They have a resting heart rate of 75 bpm and the last time a registrable emotion crossed their face was back in 1991 when Freddie Mercury died. (Sword users are also big Queen fans. We don’t yet know why, they just are.) They are staid, reliable, hard-working individuals who go to bed with a glass of warm milk and exactly 30 minutes of Law and Order: SVU reruns before lights out.

[livid comet]

I'm a spear person so... I guess I'm god now

[solid cairn]

What does this have to do with anything

[valid locust]

People legitimately read Kotaku?

[fair plinth]

to be fair. I got flurry shot one my first attempt at bow and it made me fall in love with it

[solid cairn]

I don’t

[livid comet]

Sorry, it was just so bad that I had to share it

[mighty ermine]

for spear

Natural Enemy: People who hate fun.

yikes

[hearty elbow]

Lol, I enjoyed it

[unkempt pagoda]

bow mains are just trying to live their lives, jeez

[fair plinth]

subsequent runs I got the powershot timing down and next run I killed hades under 3 minutes with the charged shot buff

[mighty ermine]

unwarranted bow and spear hate in the same article, about what i expected

[solid cairn]

I don’t know what they mean about sword

It’s just not relevant at all

[deft patrol]

thats your basic cin2win

[valid locust]

Only thing that warrants hate is the Chaos Shield nerf.

[deft patrol]

that*

im a fist user so im charming accoring to them

[fair plinth]

most likely the writer hasn't even reached the second ending yet

[hearty elbow]

Spear hate?

[deft patrol]

[mighty ermine]

saying it's op essentially and that achilles aspect is garbage

[valid locust]

LMAO what?

[mighty ermine]

hate is reductive but basically yeah

[solid cairn]

Sword users benefit most from using their dash-strike and not much else. To make this weapon more than the milquetoast sharp stick that it is, start investing Titan Blood, a lot of it. The Aspect of Nemesis is nice for its critical-hit chance and casters will also enjoy the Aspect of Posiedon, but the sword is just not that interesting until you unlock its hidden Aspect.

Nemesis hater

[fair plinth]

dafaq

[solid cairn]

Get out of my planet

[unkempt pagoda]

they’re right about the dash strike part

[hearty elbow]

I mean... that statement is actually pretty spot... on

Cough

[solid cairn]

[deft patrol]

oh yeah i have all the requirements for fist aspect but i still cant get the hidden aspect

am i doing something wrong?

[unkempt pagoda]

you’re not getting lucky enough

[solid cairn]

Nemesis haters don’t deserve oxygen

[deft patrol]

NEVER Lucky

[limber pine]

unfortunately, there are a lot of misinformation regarding Hades. My friend asked me about keepsakes and showed me an article where Cerberus and Tooth was S tier

[fair plinth]

you need to pray to RNGesus

[valid locust]

Lol

[mighty ermine]

I mean... that statement is actually pretty spot... on

[valid locust]

Full release woes

[solid cairn]

I mean yes

[neon knot]

oh yeah i have all the requirements for fist aspect but i still cant get the hidden aspect
@deft patrol idk man I'm having the same problem unlocking hidden rail aspect. It's all about praying to RNGesus

[deft patrol]

unfortunately, there are a lot of misinformation regarding Hades. My friend asked me about keepsakes and showed me an article where Cerberus and Tooth was S tier
@limber pine wtf ahaha

[hearty elbow]

Cerberus and Tooth ARE S-tier, since they're easy to get and before you get DDs and extra health from the mirror lol

[valid locust]

Kinda reminds me of hearing hella casual players talk about FGs.

[solid cairn]

Nemesis needs to dash strike because they made its actual moveset trash

[fair plinth]

unfortunately, there are a lot of misinformation regarding Hades.
@limber pine

I told my friends that this was a game that teaches you the concept of ||plausible deniability||

[limber pine]

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2020/09/30/hades-keepsakes-list-a-tier-list-of-the-best-keepsakes/

[deft patrol]

i am currently using hidden sword aspect with centaur hearths and aprodite

got like 500 hp

[valid locust]

We should tell people that poseidon is the best attack boom for fist, second is poseidon dasb

😂 😂 😂 😂

[hearty elbow]

Man, I'm so impressed with people who find uses for Black Shawl

[solid cairn]

I mean it is the only interesting sword aspect

[limber pine]

@hearty elbow but once you get your mirror up and running, they aren't that meaningful anymore

[fair plinth]

black shawl is good o.o

[solid cairn]

According to mr kotaku

[hearty elbow]

Yeah I was mostly kidding. I had the same experience when I was brand new though. Tooth and Collar provided really valuable bonuses

[fair plinth]

especially with dash-heavy builds

[untold quiver]

What do y'all even look to take for accent on Thunderfists?

[valid locust]

Collar is like a stepstool keepsake

[solid cairn]

It’s kinda sad, you only use like 5 keepsakes

[valid locust]

It helps jump to better ones

[mighty ermine]

these articles are going to kill me lol some of these takes are out of this world

[hearty elbow]

You know, I could actually kind of see this tier list (minus S-tier) working if you assumed that all of the keepsakes worked with multiplicative bonuses

[fair plinth]

my collar is still 1 star 0 runs

[limber pine]

Black shawl is just too circumstantial to me so I never use it

[fair plinth]

I gave my first nectar to hypnos and never looked back

[true ravine]

I'm sad that the God-specific keepsakes are one per escape

[solid cairn]

Black shawl is just too circumstantial to me so I never use it
Like 90% of them are

[valid locust]

Lol

[neon knot]

Any suggestions to make Guan Yu viable? The health/healing reduction makes it feel pretty unplayable

[unkempt pagoda]

it’s not any more circumstantial than regular backstabbing is

[turbid needle]

videogame journalism at this point...

[solid cairn]

The Charon one is fun for stacking casts

[limber pine]

max Guan Yu then special or pray for hammer faster charge

[valid locust]

I use Achilles keepsake way more than whats normal

[deft patrol]

videogame critics are a joke at this point

[unkempt pagoda]

it’s just the opportunity cost of shawl is very high

[solid cairn]

Video game journalism is regarded as a joke

[hearty elbow]

It's about as useful as taking complaints from Reddit to heart.

[solid cairn]

And it shouldn’t be that way

[fair plinth]

the problem with videogame journalism isn't with journalism itself tbh, it's the gatekeeping by the community

these guys are writing for people who hasn't played the game

[solid cairn]

But oh my god every popular site or whatever that talks about games is braindead

[true ravine]

Only opinion I listen to, and not that often, is Yong Yea

[unkempt zephyr]

Try Sysiphus keepsake in begining. its give 80% damage to attack,special,cast. if they dont have boons. its very strong for start.

[deft patrol]

people nowadays are the fragile in my opinion but thats just me

[solid cairn]

It’s misinformation

[mighty ermine]

it's just that some people are going to read something like this and, despite a facetious presentation sometimes, regard it as definitive even though it's still just written by a random player

and some random players can have plenty of questionable judgments

[solid cairn]

Why not watch someone who is actually experienced at the game

YouTube exists

[valid locust]

I wanna like sysiphus, but why noy get actual boons?

[unkempt pagoda]

and some random players can have plenty of questionable judgments
yeah, i mean look at me

[fair plinth]

shrug let them learn at their own pace

[unkempt pagoda]

i made a whole google sheets of judgements that may or may not be questionable

[mighty ermine]

onyx you're not allowed to say that when you pretty much accurately grouped all god trio synergies

[deft patrol]

haeling is pretty good yt'ber

[solid cairn]

Why not just like reach out to professionals, I’m sure they would want to be on something like that just for attention

[limber pine]

Sisyphus keepsake is praying that all your boon are terrible enough for it to be useful

[solid cairn]

Keepsake balance is in a sad place

[unkempt zephyr]

If wana great opinion ask speed runners. not Haeling. Find WR speed runers. Who know mechanic very well and insane anmounts ot tricks and tips.

[hearty elbow]

SIsyphus has interesting interaction with AP2

[unkempt pagoda]

a lot of those speedrunners are on this server

[hearty elbow]

Since you usually seed for Hammers anyway

[solid cairn]

Speed runners don’t necessarily know the most about the game

[mighty ermine]

speaking of that pin when

[deft patrol]

oversky speedrunners pick ussualy the fastest build

[valid locust]

Speed running hades is....uninteresting.

[deft patrol]

its prob the same build over and over

[unkempt zephyr]

But they dont go only low lvl Heat.

[valid locust]

I get it, but its weird AF.

[unkempt zephyr]

and find way to clear easy and fast

[unkempt pagoda]

https://www.speedrun.com/hades

seems like a pretty diverse spread to me

[solid cairn]

When it’s seeded it’s more like a traditional run

[unkempt pagoda]

though tbf, it's mostly demfists

[solid cairn]

When someone finds a seed that’s god tier it’s all gonna be one weapon

[mighty ermine]

demfists not even focused on their gimmick as much as an end that is merciful

[deft patrol]

like chaos shield?

didnt it use to be broken

[unkempt zephyr]

God tier keepsake its charon keepsake for usual player. bacaus for so low cost you get buffs on insane unmounts of battles.

[mighty ermine]

kinda

[solid cairn]

Idk if I’m gonna like devote all my time to running hades but I have been trying to go fast every so often

[valid locust]

It used to be fun

Now its not

😩

[deft patrol]

i like hidden sword aspect and just got high hp

its a breeze

and aphro

[unkempt zephyr]

i like hidden sword aspect and just got high hp
@deft patrol Its a truck with insane damage.easy to get 2k+ from swings.

[deft patrol]

yh

is it better to have familiy fav or the other with demi fists

[hearty elbow]

I usually end up with FF like 75% of the time, 100% of the time if I'm starting with Artemis or Athena

[limber pine]

Privileged Status is what I have most of the time since I end up with multiple status most of the time

[hearty elbow]

Privileged Status will only be better by additive 10-15%, which is fine if you're starting a run with a status curse and an easy way to apply a second one, but like... why bother most of the time, especially if it's not guaranteed

Or you have to take a poop boon to make it work

[unkempt zephyr]

fam fav can give 30% max. but another give you 40%.all gods have debuff. and all of debuff realy god. never use FF.

[fossil moat]

what special boon do you stick on demeter fists?

[solid cairn]

Sometimes you want to use it

[hearty elbow]

10% additive is almost literally nothing

It's Urge to Kill

woo

[mighty ermine]

artemis' only status curse is hunter's mark which isn't present at all during single foe fights, also

and lasts a very short period

[unkempt zephyr]

artemis' only status curse is hunter's mark which isn't present at all during single foe fights, also
@mighty ermine If you go artemis. you must have great single target damage.

[solid cairn]

Do you know how rare getting all gods are in a run

[mighty ermine]

yes?

[solid cairn]

PS is just more simple

I used to use FF a lot

[valid locust]

Prividleged Status is way easier to get than you'd think

[hearty elbow]

It's opportunity cost lol. FF always works, and you don't need to use a crappy second ability to get a conditional % buff

[solid cairn]

Also you can basically have it up permanently anyway

[limber pine]

isn't the amount of Gods you can get normally in a run 4 unless you force it with keepsakes?

[mighty ermine]

5 with hermes, normally

[limber pine]

o right forgot about Hermes

[mighty ermine]

he counts

[solid cairn]

I’m just super used to PS as well

[hearty elbow]

There are some aspects and builds that get it for free. E.g. Chiron w/ Drunken Flourish + Heartbreak Strike

But if you don't get it for free, it's just so rarely worth the extra effort

[valid locust]

Extra effort is getting jolt or exposed

[dense star]

I used PS when it was +50%, now I just use FF since I get to not think about keeping PS active for almost free

[valid locust]

Not much of an effort

[hearty elbow]

Jolted lasts nothing, Exposed is not tenable to apply for a lot of ranged aspects since you're not going to be Divine Dashing into enemies

[mighty ermine]

i think a lot of people overestimate the difference between them on average. like ledger already said, 10-15% is basically nothing in the grand scheme

[unkempt zephyr]

Almost all weapons nedd use attack and special to maximaze DPS. mb only spears dont. becaus cant be canceled on animations. but others EASY. specialy shield,sword,gun.bow.

[deft patrol]

so if your going zeus/athena just go FF

[hearty elbow]

Has anyone ever been excited to pick Urge to Kill? Then why would you be excited to have to pick Exposed to get Urge to Kill

[dense star]

And if Jolted lasts awhile, well that means you got cold fusion, have fun

[mighty ermine]

lol

[valid locust]

I've been hype for Urge to Kill

[solid cairn]

I was excited before I found out it was additive

[valid locust]

It was an epic one in the elysium shop

And the only time Ares showed up thr whole run

Its a great better than nothing boon

😂 😂 😂

[hearty elbow]

Lol, yeah, it's the better than nothing boon you pray won't ruin your rooms from then on

[dense star]

Sometimes you're looking for Merciful End. Sometimes you instead find Urge to Kill.

[solid cairn]

Ok fine I’ll try FF again

[valid locust]

Exactly, gimme that +16% damage boost

[mighty ermine]

ares coming in with a "i'm in your god pool now and i'm not leaving whether you like it or not"

[valid locust]

If my damage is high enough, thats basically a pseudo support fire

[high tangle]

Man, hazard bomb railgun with crit build is just

[sharp anvil]

Heroic deadly flourish and heroic hunter's mark on a Chiron run

[hearty elbow]

PS has higher ceilings. It's phenomenal on Hangover and Doom builds.

[valid locust]

PS has shown up for me in a lot of weird places.

[hearty elbow]

But it should be relatively clear when you don't want to have to stretch your luck or build to accommodate for it

[valid locust]

If you can activate it great, if not then great

Not like the opportunity costs for the other one is high

[hearty elbow]

Lol, "if not" then you're basically at a 25% damage deficit in comparison.

[unkempt zephyr]

But it should be relatively clear when you don't want to have to stretch your luck or build to accommodate for it
@hearty elbow Ps easy to get.what you talking about? and if you play god Debuff from him help alote in his play style

[valid locust]

Isnt it 5% per different god?

[mighty ermine]

yes

and non-conditional

[valid locust]

Thought they had to be in the line up, not support?

[mighty ermine]

nope, doesn't matter

[hearty elbow]

Nope, just a boon

[mighty ermine]

you can take whatever

[valid locust]

Hmmm...

[hearty elbow]

It's virtually guaranteed 25% always

[valid locust]

Welp, sucks for privilege status

[mighty ermine]

i benefitted from a FF ares boost on a recent high heat run simply from blood defiance. that was literally all i had from him by the end

[valid locust]

You had a good run.

😂 😂 😂

[unkempt zephyr]

better to create a good build with 2 gods with 2 debuffs and get 40% damage,then take 5 gods to take bonus damage lower,,,and almost nothing great in build.

[solid cairn]

Back in my day as kids we didn’t have your fancy family favorite

[mighty ermine]

hey now i was playing back when PS was the only option too bucko

[hearty elbow]

I have seen people take Drunken, Passion or Mistral Dash early in runs to fulfill PS and get massively triggered. It could be Divine Dash

[robust anchor]

how should i build deme fist? i saw hael go for ares athena duo but is it very consistent outside of speedruns?

[valid locust]

A good build at which heat setting?

[solid cairn]

I am aware

[mighty ermine]

how

[valid locust]

Feel like a lot of convos for this game involve pact of punishment context.

[unkempt zephyr]

how should i build deme fist? i saw hael go for ares athena duo but is it very consistent outside of speedruns?
@robust anchor take atremis on special or some thing with Huge base damage like aphro or demeter.

[unkempt pagoda]

demfists is very consistent if you know what to look for

[solid cairn]

Or merciful end lol

[mighty ermine]

ME isn't exactly as consistent but yes it's strong and carries

[unkempt pagoda]

pretty sure all of the special hammers are available on it (some are kinda clunky), so it can do a lot of things, and it always performs great

[solid cairn]

Yup

[unkempt pagoda]

my favorite to play with is kinetic launcher lol

[solid cairn]

In fact that’s the only way to use the hidden fist effectively

[hearty elbow]

Sometimes I feel like they should have given Merciful End an internal cooldown instead of making it a giant pain to get

But I guess nerfing Zeus aspect is kind of a bummer lol.

[valid locust]

High heat continues to nerf things

[unkempt pagoda]

high heat buffed bow, be grateful

[mighty ermine]

yeah we worked hard for this

[hearty elbow]

That's pretty factually untrue. High heat proved Bow could work, the raving hysterical salty masses demanded that Bow be buffed.

[valid locust]

Y'all nerfed chaos

[solid cairn]

Listen I’m just spamming attack with rama

[valid locust]

And should be deleted

[hearty elbow]

Dude, lol, millionth time. Chaos was bad for the game at every level of play.

[unkempt pagoda]

i distinctly remember one piece of feedback by nyaanyaa that complained about bow dps and everybody upvoted 🤧

[unkempt zephyr]

bows feels like cheat weapon if you dont take time. but take other in 30+ heat

[hearty elbow]

i distinctly remember one piece of feedback by nyaanyaa literally everyone with a keyboard, that complained about bow dps and everybody upvoted 🤧
@unkempt pagoda fix'd

[valid locust]

It was great for my game when I was having fun with it every once in a while.

[mighty ermine]

i think it's fair to say high heat experience of relying too much on hammers to get bow up to speed helped nudge bow towards where it is now with the increased damage

[valid locust]

[unkempt pagoda]

i didn't complain but i wasn't gonna let my experience get in the way of buffs

[hearty elbow]

It needed buffs. It didn't need to be buffed THIS hard, but I will never admit to that.

[solid cairn]

I stan Rama, throw all the other bows in the trash

[hearty elbow]

It was pretty easily the worst weapon in Blood Price. It's not even clear if Bow is the best weapon in 1.0

So I see no problems

[mighty ermine]

yeah i mean, all the bows are far from garbage currently

[jade rover]

determined to win my current run, where I decided to pick up explosive shot on rama

it's... taking a while

[solid cairn]

Oh

[dense star]

Definitely feels weird for me that bow might be my least favorite weapon but it's also the one I've grinded my highest heat on (20)

[unkempt pagoda]

bow was my first EM4 win

[solid cairn]

I used to use the rail a lot

I can’t stand it

[hearty elbow]

@dense star That was what every person felt who yolo'd into high heat with Chaos in Blood Price and earlier

[unkempt zephyr]

it's... taking a while
@jade rover i know this feelings) i was lucky...but.... https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/758485427723698186/760669315459448882/unknown.png

[solid cairn]

5 duo boons what

[dense star]

I really liked the bow early, then it kinda just stopped killing things and being grindy as hell. It's felt better recently but still

[unkempt zephyr]

even for me it was...so long...

[deft patrol]

whats bestboons for fists of dem

[hearty elbow]

what

[mighty ermine]

lol

[hearty elbow]

Demeter Aspect is S-tier Demeter Fist

Assuming you meant boons, you want to start Artemis or Aphro special

[mighty ermine]

dem aspect is good at being itself, which is a valuable lesson that we can all learn

[solid cairn]

Granny fist

[deft patrol]

yeah i meant boons

my bad

[unkempt zephyr]

Demeter Aspect is S-tier Demeter Fist
@hearty elbow it opinion of some ppl) 4th aspect no so behind. but its harder to use. becaus dash-special.

[turbid needle]

Okay, but what if you're pre-launch Zag Stygius?

[jade rover]

landing a charged shot for, uh, 1700 damage is pretty nice.

[solid cairn]

Post launch zag sword is still pretty lacking

[hearty elbow]

Okay, but what if you're pre-launch Zag Stygius?
@turbid needle You hit Skelly a few times and then you claim your 6 diamonds

[turbid needle]

Correct.

1.0 Zag is in a fine-enough place for being a Zag Aspect.

It's not supposed to be Eris or Guan Yu.

[solid cairn]

Even with the attack speed zag sword may still be the worst in the game but what do I know

[hearty elbow]

It's not clear what the worst is anymore

Which is cool

[valid locust]

Think zag shield is meh

[hearty elbow]

15% attack speed is not nothing

[unkempt pagoda]

at least it's not bow on release

[deft patrol]

ledger

[turbid needle]

Zag Shield is super scary.

[deft patrol]

just get hermes xd

[valid locust]

Not sure what gimmick it has that I should do runs with it

Scary at what?

[turbid needle]

"Just get this specific boon" is really bad advice for an RNG-controlled game.

[valid locust]

Not when you can control starting boons.

[turbid needle]

Even with the game's ability to manipulate.

[solid cairn]

Bro ares call bad, just get a legendary smh

[mighty ermine]

i think my very first victory back when hydra was the last boss in the game was with bow

[unkempt pagoda]

just get winter harvest every time 4head

[hearty elbow]

I started in NIghty Night

[solid cairn]

I started on welcome to hell

So the final boss was already in

[unkempt pagoda]

i'm pretty sure my first win was with spear back when it was broken

[valid locust]

Right after Blood Price

[solid cairn]

Wait when was that

[deft patrol]

realy early on

[solid cairn]

When was spear broken lol

[valid locust]

But I dont buy a lot of gamez.

Whicb I'd gotten this on Epic

[unkempt pagoda]

there's two parts to early broken spear build

[valid locust]

Would've been fun seeing all the builds and changes.

[unkempt pagoda]

spear's spin used to be much quicker than it is now

[solid cairn]

Didn’t hestia’s damage bonus apply to every bullet in spread shot at one point

[unkempt pagoda]

and artemis dash wasn't like it is now. it used to be that after a dash, your next attack was a critical hit

[robust anchor]

if i just do ME for fists, why not just go talos? or even just zag

[unkempt pagoda]

...this worked with spin dash

[robust anchor]

doesn’t look like ill use special much just dash and smack

[mighty ermine]

shield before aspects used to be absolutely busted with bull rush to dash-strike weaving

[deft patrol]

you use it trust me

[hearty elbow]

@robust anchor Zag is fine. It was the preferred ME fist in Blood Price back when we thought the attack speed existed

[unkempt pagoda]

if you put something like divine strike on attack and put on old artemis dash, you basically won the run

[hearty elbow]

Old Artemis Dash

woof

I have heard legend but did not experience it myself

[unkempt pagoda]

soon artemis dash was changed, but then old deadly reversal was released

[solid cairn]

Most crazy thing that existed in my time playing was spread shot artemis

[hearty elbow]

Also old Hunter's Mark, which applied to the crit target

[unkempt pagoda]

which used to be guaranteed critical hits after deflection

[solid cairn]

Which was the first time someone beat the game in under 5 minutes IgT

[unkempt zephyr]

TO have broken spear take ahilies and poseidon cast +ares duo. its insane. and you dont need time to wait cast back. another its athena cast + zeus duo . for usual player damage can kill all on game easy

[hearty elbow]

tl;dr from balance perspective: Nerf Artemis

[solid cairn]

Spread shot Artemis is still pretty good but

It was a beast in its prime lemme tell you

[mighty ermine]

deadly reversal used to be +35% crit

[unkempt pagoda]

lol pre-nerf spread shot was hella broke

and there was also that brief period where true shot was the speedrun meta

[solid cairn]

With Poseidon?

[hearty elbow]

Was that the Bone Hourglass + Prometheus Stone w/ Stygian Soul build?

[solid cairn]

That’s quite a unique build

[unkempt pagoda]

maybe? i really wasn't into build theory back then, i just knew all the speedrunners used it

[hearty elbow]

It was very very easy to get 4+ casts with Stygian Soul before Blood Price

they added a lot of filler Well items

And then in 1.0 Wells became rarer

[solid cairn]

I guess you could say

The build didn’t age well

[jade rover]

I did it! That's not a combo I will try again I think

[unkempt zephyr]

It was very very easy to get 4+ casts with Stygian Soul before Blood Price
@hearty elbow but they add damage from cast 50%.

[hearty elbow]

Along with fish, gems, fishing point, Flamewheel Release, maybe others? Can't remember off the top of my head

EIther way, more casts is multiplicative damage and cast % is additive.

[elder jolt]

Just tried Blitz Disc with Merciful End, the damage is off the chart man

Special Ares with Attach Athena

[hearty elbow]

Yeah, it's extremely good

[limber pine]

Merciful End is just good overall

[unkempt zephyr]

Just tried Blitz Disc with Merciful End, the damage is off the chart man
@elder jolt Blitz disc?

[sharp anvil]

Oh my god I currently have a level 7 Athena's call.... that's 4s of invulnerability

[elder jolt]

Shield aspect

[unkempt zephyr]

Shield aspect
@elder jolt did you try add artemis to doom can crit?try

top of chart when you doom crit on 2k+

[mighty ermine]

@sharp anvil i love when you get there, and popping a greater call results in you just staying completely untouchable for pretty much an entire hades phase

it's so silly

[elder jolt]

I have epic lvl 2 Pressure Points so it's insane yeah

[hearty elbow]

Yeah, it's really satisfying starting a new Hades phase with a full bar. Once you get past the invuln the fight is over.

[mighty ermine]

exactly

[unkempt zephyr]

I have epic lvl 2 Pressure Points so it's insane yeah
@elder jolt im talking about add artemis+athena duo with 20% crit chance to all attacks.

[sharp anvil]

@mighty ermine I prefer using single uses, since you can time them to when he actually attacks. I feel like using the greater call is a waste because half the duration will be the enemy recovering from attacks

[elder jolt]

Oh not that one

[hearty elbow]

Unfortunately sometimes the Chariots come and require you spend your hard earned Lesser Calls

[elder jolt]

I should try, although that's too good to be true

[mighty ermine]

i guess i've just gotten consistent enough to where i don't really need lesser on hades outside of, well, chariot summons

so i prefer to build greater and then go ham for a while

[sharp anvil]

It's not needed, but single uses still allow you a greater dps uptime if anything

[mighty ermine]

eh

there are plenty of windows to get damage in on hades pretty constantly

[hearty elbow]

It's not needed, but single uses still allow you a greater dps uptime if anything
@sharp anvil I'd normally agree, but Hades phase 2 part 2 is definitely pretty dangerous, and it's nice to not have to think about it. A lot of phase 1 stuff is very manageable without having to spend calls.

[sharp anvil]

Yes I'm aware of that... it's still better tho

[mighty ermine]

would not say it's better, no

but if you prefer it, sure

[hearty elbow]

Sometimes I'm lazy and I just use Athena's Aid to jump into a pile of summons + Dad and DPS freely

[sharp anvil]

It really is, yes. If you hit a greater call some part of it will be wasted on his casting animations, him walking around, or him going into darkness. Single uses allow you to use it right before an attack and just facetank it while shooting. No part of it will be wasted (unless your call is leveled up very high, but even then it just gives you a more lax window with it)

[mighty ermine]

he doesn't go into darkness in phase 2, which is the entire context

[hearty elbow]

Phase 2 part 2 has none of that. No invuln, no disappearing

[sharp anvil]

If you don't wanna think about timing it, then yes sure, greater call is "better" but that's if you want to play less optimally

[mighty ermine]

yep

[sharp anvil]

The parts about walking and casting are still valid there

And recovery timers

[mighty ermine]

he doesn't walk if you're up against him attacking constantly, though?

like he has nowhere to walk

you're in front of him consistently

[hearty elbow]

Yeah he just stays right on you

Or he'll track away very slightly then spin again

[sharp anvil]

If you stay in front of him, sure

[hearty elbow]

Why would you not stay in front of him if you're invulnerable though

[mighty ermine]

or behind, or to the side. he doesn't go anywhere if you're close

[sharp anvil]

Backstab damage

[hearty elbow]

Lol, backstab damage is irrelevant. Almost any build should be able to kill Dad in p2p2 with Greater Athena call

[sharp anvil]

...

I'm talking about being optimal

[hearty elbow]

I am as well

[sharp anvil]

But you guys go "Well if you're in phase 2... and you don't utilize back stab... and you stay in front of him and don't kite... and you don't use dash attacks... and you don't have range weapons"

I'm sure you can craft a very specific scenario where a greater call will be better if you add a million parameters to hit

[hearty elbow]

In practice, unless you have your freak level 7 call, you will need the majority of the Greater Call timer to kill Dad in p2p2. Greater Call gives 1.5x duration, so it's "optimal" to save it so you can freely dps the entire duration.

[mighty ermine]

why would you need to kite while you're invulnerable? and backstabbing has no effect on whether he moves around. if you're close, he will not need to walk around

[sharp anvil]

You kite when you're not in call

And that's the point Ledger, if you need more uptime on the call, then user lesser calls will give you greater uptime

Since none of it will be wasted on his downtime on his damage

[hearty elbow]

That's mechanically not how it works. Greater is a 1.5x duration multiplier

[mighty ermine]

your quote was supposed to reference what we were saying but we never suggested kiting in phase 2 because you never need to if you pop greater

[sharp anvil]

Yes, it has a duration multiplier... which is offset by the downtimes in his attacks

[hearty elbow]

The entire duration of which is active DPS in practice

Since he doesn't ever leave your range when you melee him

[sharp anvil]

I give up on trying to get this through to you

[hearty elbow]

Okay.

We didn't say your way was wrong fwiw. We were refuting the "optimal" claim. Obviously you can do whatever works for you as long as Hades goes down.

[sharp anvil]

If I claim something is optimal and you refute that claim, it does mean you are saying I am wrong

[hearty elbow]

I'm over it.

[sharp anvil]

You... messaged me about it again, I'll respond...

[tall yarrow]

greater call is more actual uptime but less useful uptime

[fluid scaffold]

Thoughts on smoldering air?

it's obv good with just zeus stuff but any other neat tricks that can be done with spammable Calls?

[hearty elbow]

Best Duo.

[mighty ermine]

incredibly powerful with dio call good gods

[hearty elbow]

Interesting Combos are Aphro, which lets you permacharm individual enemies or CC bosses on command

[long light]

How should I be building aspect of chaos (throw 5 multi-shields)? It seems different then I remember, nerf?

[hearty elbow]

Eh, that's the only real interesting one, the rest are just more of what makes the call good

[long light]

it seems like when I throw the shields they no longer bounce off of walls etc

[fluid scaffold]

Demeter smoldering air sounds actively bad but the rest are all great ye

[mighty ermine]

squeezing out every ounce of what makes a call like dio's good is an absolute win basically

might not be as crafty as aphro, and yeah dem is

not great with it

[fluid scaffold]

I haven't checked the requirements but it requires Zeus call specifically I assume?

[mighty ermine]

no, just a zeus core boon

[hearty elbow]

Any call, Zeus + Aphro cores

[fluid scaffold]

oh well then it's even better

[mighty ermine]

pretty much avoid artemis aid if you plan on smoldering because it's terrible with it

same could be said of ares

[hearty elbow]

Actually, nevermind, according to Codex you don't even need a call to get it

That's nifty

[fluid scaffold]

I just got it with just bolts in styx, got Epic +%damage after Calling and whooped hades' toned butt

first 8 heat win, that statue is glorious

[mighty ermine]

yeah, the synergy with stuff like billowing and second wind gets nutty

[fluid scaffold]

I do need to start playing other weapons than sword eventually, I don't think I even have the reward for winning with all of them yet

iirc just spear is missing which I just can't figure out how to play well, but hey I'll get there

[deft patrol]

whats a good build for hidden fist aspect

or boons

[mighty ermine]

hidden fists likes high +% attack boons like aphro, or artemis for big crits, since its base damage is so high and rather slow

or you can just slap doom attack on and hope to land merciful end later

because ME with hidden fists is wild, given the extra dashes

[fluid scaffold]

RTmiss does sound like the way to go with the paws

[mighty ermine]

and granted with divine dash as the activator of course

[fluid scaffold]

I wonder if Artemis dash is worth considering over divine with it

[mighty ermine]

i don't have a huge amount of experience with the paws but when i tried hunter dash (and even chaos lunge to boot) on it, it felt kinda underwhelming

[unkempt pagoda]

it's kinda sad that the dash attack damage wasn't increased for gil lol

[mighty ermine]

yeah, maybe they foresaw us pretty much only using dash-strike if it was higher

[fluid scaffold]

or some sort of in-built dash damage instead of just extra dashes

[mighty ermine]

which i guess to be fair is happening a lot anyway

[fluid scaffold]

dash-strike spamming depends on preference I think

[tidal edge]

if I have a common or rare boon on my main source of damage, is it worth selling it to try and get a rarer one later? I just got a chaos boon for rarer boon finds

[unkempt pagoda]

it just feels kinda weird that everything else for gil is bigger but its dash attack still feels like tickles

[fluid scaffold]

and if you're on controller lol since reliably dashstriking with WASD is suffering

[unkempt pagoda]

like a bear charging after you but then it pokes you in the side with its nose

[mighty ermine]

oh i'm a huge fan of it on other weapons, but yeah on gil it's... you want it to work but it takes some extra effort kinda

[tall yarrow]

hmm dash strike on keyboard seems a lot easier since your dash direction and your attack direction are independent

[unkempt pagoda]

i turn off attack at cursor for gil and rely entirely on aim assist

[fluid scaffold]

idk I have trouble with it at least

[hard kelp]

i finally unlocked all the hidden aspects. now i just have to figure out good builds for these things.

[mighty ermine]

i've heard some people saying they had trouble with dash-strike aiming on controller, which is mostly just something to get used to, since you flick and aim the attack after dashing

after a while it becomes second nature and works fine

[fluid scaffold]

I meant not so much dash attacking specifically but more being tied to 8 directions with the dash

makes EM2 much harder than it needs to be for example

[tidal edge]

I never know whether it's better to take an early common boon for my main source of damage or wait out for a rarer version

especially if the common boon is from the god I want

[limber pine]

use fated persuasion or just give up and modify your run around the rarities

[turbid halo]

It's all additive anyway so a chaos boon or something is going to make up the difference

[brittle wind]

Well you got normal special and cast attack as your main source of damage so you can make it up on the go

Don't hold back your boon for searching a specific one... usually you are ends up failed the run

All boon actually good in its own way anyway... nothing actually useless

forgot the call... I once killed hades pretty much by using call build... for some reason it keeps showing up as boon choices

[primal hazel]

Heyo
Any tips/builds for demeter aspect?
Can I use it on lv 1 or what what level does it become playable?

[brittle wind]

I think lvl 3 is preferred... but go 5 if you can

zeus attack and demeter or artemis special

[primal hazel]

Guess I needs grad some ambro lol

[mild bone]

Related to early-game boon choices, I read that any given run will only include 3-4 gods' boons. Are those determined at the start of the run before you make any decisions, or does that mean you'll see repeats of the first four-ish that you pick up. So if I see an Artemis option in Tartarus and ignore it, hoping to avoid her, will I continue to see Artemis later on?

[brittle wind]

You mean blood??

[primal hazel]

For blood

@mild bone those are determined by the first 4 you pick, not including chaos or hermes
You can change the slots by forcing a god with his keepsake

[brittle wind]

Forcing a god only works on tartarus I think

[primal hazel]

God it lvl 3 now

[brittle wind]

I once use it on asphodel and finish the run without finding the one that I use my keepsake

[primal hazel]

No it works everytime you equip a gods keepsake for the first time

Hermes doesn't count

That's why there's a special interaction if he appears before

[brittle wind]

Even the circle thing still there when I got to the break room in elysium

[primal hazel]

Maybe you skipped it but that's not how it should work

Circle thing?

[brittle wind]

No I don't skip it

Yeah when you use god keepsake

there is a circle thing on the bottom of it

when you pick said god boon... it dissapear

[primal hazel]

Oh yeah

Rigjt

[brittle wind]

I just love this game UI it explains everything

[primal hazel]

But usually equipping it should force it
It works for me every time In every section

[brittle wind]

Yeah... but there is one time it doesn't... lol maybe I just got a bug or something

If you use it on tartarus it always the very first god you see

On asphodel and forward... not so much

[primal hazel]

It should
Unless it's hermes

I'm 99% on thaz

That

Maybe look out for it in a future/future runs

[brittle wind]

I hope this game got DLC incoming

Right now I finish with pretty much everything

[primal hazel]

Same
But it'll take some time till we find out

Wtf all relationships/weapons/keepsake/companions maxed? All prophecies fulfilled? Epilogue done?

[brittle wind]

Keepsake relations and companion yes... weapon there still some lol

Mostly each weapon there is one that I don't use that isn't max yet

Epilogue yes

I force a lot of duo boons but sometimes they are just too RNG... especially the legendary one

[primal hazel]

Big oof

Yeah still working on all the legendary and duos

Even in builds I want they just don't like me

[brittle wind]

I still don't got the gift of song

don't know how to do that

I already produce a good sound on my room but the prophecy never fulfilled

I lack 2 legendary and 5 duo

they just don't want to show up... almost lost my streak because of them

[primal hazel]

I think orpheus random rng dialogue interaction
The chaos nyx quest only completes if you speak with nyx in chaos realm so I guess it's interaction locked

[mild bone]

@primal hazel Thanks!

[primal hazel]

Np

[dusk moss]

Does quick reload affect curse of drowning?

[brittle wind]

Orpheus doesn't give me anymore conversation

[primal hazel]

Nope
The pulses are set I think

Me neither even tho I have the reunite quest

Just random stuff

[dusk moss]

Hmm ok, i thought it was affecting my pulses

Ty

[primal hazel]

I assume other quests block ot

I'm not sure

It should only affect how fast your stones drop if they get stuck

And the pulses don't make em stuck

[dusk moss]

Curse of drowning is basically a self stick so I assumed

[primal hazel]

Or was it the stygian oneM

It doesn't show the stones sticking to you
There's a special symbol

At least that's what I'm assuming xD

[dusk moss]

Lol ok

[brittle wind]

Do you even got chaos legendary boon?? I literally force her to show it but to no success lol

[primal hazel]

Necer

Never

I have like 3 chaos boons every run

And it never shows up for me

And I also have the increase upgrade

[hearty elbow]

Oh wow, new Serrated Point dash goes nowhere

[mighty ermine]

[clever matrix]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/357638027914248202/761028437774696458/1145360_20200930195430_1.png

impending doom or dire misfortune?

wish I could get both but alas 😔

[untold vortex]

weapon, aspect and currect boons?

[unkempt pagoda]

weapon?

[clever matrix]

spear

[unkempt pagoda]

do you have merciful end?

[clever matrix]

i think you can see i have doom attack

no 😔

[unkempt pagoda]

if you do, go impending

ah well, i think impending at this point would be more dps

[untold vortex]

otherwise dire misfortune or urge to kill

[warm shale]

I don't like impending cuz it'll just proc less for aphrodite's curse of longing duo

[untold vortex]

impending doom is great for Merciful End (and by great I mean its effectively free damage)

[clever matrix]

actually i like impending for privileged status (more damage if you inflict two status effects on enemies)

[icy parrot]

So, I have a question here, about spear aspect 4. What... Exactly an I supposed to take as its strong suit? I'm playing around with it and without seeing the numbers properly, it all just looks like a downgrade. Slower attack speed, less health, slower special....How am I supposed to play it? What does it excel at, mechanically speaking?

[warm shale]

charge shot heals for 1 every hit

[icy parrot]

Obviously I know there's no single way to do it but I mean as a baseline

Right, but that seems

Bad

Am I wrong?

[limber pine]

you need to max it out, 1 hp per hit when it's multiple hit and spammable is great

[warm shale]

say you're doing a max heat run

50 hp

[icy parrot]

It still takes a while to charge, I'm not sure I'd call it spammable