I'm about to use gilgamesh for the first time
#h1-builds-and-combat
solid cairn
same thing with that
cunning urchin
I think I have more runs with Malphon than a lot of people have with all weapons combined lol.
unique vigil
bruh
chrome geyser
for fast weapons; zeus is similar dps as ares; but aoe. So usually zeus is preferred.
unique vigil
what do you think of malphon 4 then?
chrome geyser
But ares is still generally really good.
cunning urchin
I'm a girl.
unique vigil
mb I use bruh as a gender neutral term haha
chrome geyser
but the main attack set is pretty decent
hazy slate
I tried utilizing maim first time I tried it but it didn’t really work well
cunning urchin
If you do, why is it bruh and not sis?
solid cairn
yeah you like dont need to upgrade it
chrome geyser
the proper term is broette
cunning urchin
I think Fists 4 are really bad unless you run ME tbh.
unique vigil
bruh is like an expression
cunning urchin
In which case it's actually really good.
chrome geyser
ME?
cunning urchin
Merciful End.
unique vigil
sis doesn't have the same ring to it
chrome geyser
no sis; you dunno what you are missing
unique vigil
yes
cunning urchin
Yes. Lady Athena + Lord Ares.
fiery token
yeah makes sense
unique vigil
abilities that deflect activate doom
fiery token
dash into them with athena dash
cunning urchin
Right. Curse of Agony + Divine Dash. Then just hold down Attack + Dash.
leaden belfry
oh dam i got Dionysus special (poison) on heroic on the bow and its really op after that i got the hammer with 400+ dmh on special to shield
my special is too strong XD
fiery token
yepp
fiery token
get uh
unique vigil
chrome geyser
But that build; isn't it good independently of being malphon?
unique vigil
I think so
fiery token
malphon has very high attack speed
cunning urchin
Right.
fiery token
and its melee
cunning urchin
Hence Fists 4 sucks.
chrome geyser
I mean like does not utilize the attack set of the fist4
cunning urchin
But it might be the best aspect for ME at least. So that's something.
chrome geyser
you could do it on the sword
chrome geyser
why is it the better aspect for it?
cunning urchin
Because Fists 4 has more dashes.
chrome geyser
wait what?
leaden belfry
what is going on
unique vigil
I like the feel of fists 4
fiery token
nemesis and exalibur
chrome geyser
what do you mean?
chrome geyser
did they submit a patch that adds dashes to fist4?
fiery token
yes
chrome geyser
WHAT?
cunning urchin
No patch. It just has more dashes.
fiery token
^
unique vigil
started the run off with an epic divine dash (using owl pendant), looking good!
fiery token
fist4 innately has 4 dashes
unkempt pagoda
4th fists have always had extra dashes
chrome geyser
what? I?
vague ledge
4 dash
fiery token
so you can go for the talent that gives you damage + dodge for dashing last second
chrome geyser
WHERE WAS THIS WRITTEN?
cunning urchin
Has +2 dashes*
unkempt pagoda
it's in the tooltip(s) when you mouse over the weapon
cunning urchin
4 only with Greater Reflex.
vague ledge
i thought
this was common knowledge
unique vigil
I'm using ruthless reflex
is one or the other better with fists or is it just preference?
fiery token
I hope fist4 special gets a small rework though
chrome geyser
Oh my god; I would have used ruthless reflex EVERY TIME
cunning urchin
@unique vigil best hammers for Fists 4 are Breaching Cross and Rolling Knuckle, in that order. Colossal Knuckle is okay, too. The rest might as well not exist tbh.
hearty elbow
Ruthless is pretty free
vague ledge
whats ruthless reflex
cunning urchin
You'll want Greater Reflex for ME.
fiery token
+damage and +dodge if you dash last second
cunning urchin
More dashes = more ME triggers = more DPS.
unkempt pagoda
one dash but on a near-miss, +% for damage and dodge
hearty elbow
Ruthless gives you 50% dodge, which I will trade 25% dps for
unkempt pagoda
max is 50%
unique vigil
oops guess I messed up
chrome geyser
I usually feel like I don't need more than 3 dashes; hence i usually will go for rutheless; but rng has been screwing me over with no extra dashes from hermes so i switched back to greater.
But i dunno how i missed this? oh my god
robust geyser
I like ruthless reflex with lambent plume.
I don't think it's good, but it is funny.
fiery token
ive never used lambent
chrome geyser
but; now that I took your talos advice @cunning urchin sis; I'm enjoying it greatly
unique vigil
I've never really used lambent plume, if I want a stacking keepsake I tend to use pierced butterfly
fiery token
I go with purse into whatever I want after first boss
chrome geyser
lambent is really good; but is missed oppurtunity on other stuff like ||pom blossom|| or god keepsakes
cunning urchin
What was the advice I gave? lol
fiery token
having pockets talent+coin purse
chrome geyser
dash cancel; and don't complete the special.
chrome geyser
yeah.
cunning urchin
That helps so much.
fiery token
wait what
robust geyser
So, unlike butterfly, plume is actually easy to stack. 👀
chrome geyser
it's much better now
fiery token
you can do that?
unique vigil
oh yeah ||pob blossom|| is really good
cunning urchin
Yep.
chrome geyser
i'm taking much less damage
chrome geyser
it's abit tricky cause you need to have dash off cooldown
(i also learned how dashes work recently)
cunning urchin
Just press Dash immediately after Special.
fiery token
oh
unique vigil
I can consistently get over 30% with pierced butterfly which I think is pretty good
chrome geyser
and have to immediately cancel it
robust geyser
That is good.
chrome geyser
I have special on square; and dash on L1 on controller; and it's easier to do
than dash on X
unique vigil
I'm sure there's people that get over 40% but that would be nuts
cunning urchin
I just use default controls for Malphon on pad.
unique vigil
you'd have to be a pretty epic gamer
fiery token
I use keyboard
chrome geyser
I saw a 50 in the wilds
chrome geyser
it depends on the weapon
chrome geyser
but I hate the butterflies with it
chrome geyser
I use both
unique vigil
I use keyboard
fiery token
posei call with keyboard is hell
chrome geyser
I like keyboard for sword, spear and hestia rail
fiery token
even though its good i never pick it
chrome geyser
controller for everything else
unkempt zephyr
looks like almost no body know about canceling attack,Specials,cast with dash and put in dashes between combo.
robust geyser
Mhm, with fists you can attack non-stop if you dash when the combo ends.
cunning urchin
@covert grove did you ever manage to finish a no-hit run? I forgot. I remember you got all the way to the Temple of Styx before, at least.
chrome geyser
I saw a clip of him doing it
fiery token
oh haely is here
robust geyser
I think he has one on his YT?
fiery token
I don't think he has done no hit
robust geyser
He has a "zero damage taken" one.
Does that count?
But it's from Nighty Night update.
cunning urchin
He was working on one in Blood Price a couple months ago maybe?
magic dagger
zero damage taken, either cheesed with divine protection, acorn or both
and by cheesed I mean one or two hits were absorbed
cunning urchin
Yeah, he was going for no-hit but without Deflect.
fiery token
no hit without deflect
robust geyser
Oh wow.
cunning urchin
Nor Acorn or anything. That was the challenge.
unique vigil
god keepsakes only work once per run right?
unique vigil
I have divine dash but I'm not seeing any ares boons
damn
so I just have to get lucky
chrome geyser
blood vial next biome
stoic thicket
Also mind you that the Dash isn't a qualifier for ME anymore. Dash can still trigger ME, but isn't enough to get the boon.
fiery token
LOL
chrome geyser
yeah. but if you have dash athena means you have athena in rotation
robust geyser
Aren't we all failures?
pseudo stream
hey Nyaa, why do you say Breaching Cross and Rolling Knuckle are best for fist4? you don't try to use the dash upper?
main zodiac
skipping animation is fun, using Arthur aspect you cant infinitely wiggle feinting attacks into special all over again
fiery token
i have never used dash upper now that i think about it
cunning urchin
@pseudo stream I could unbind Special on Fists 4, and it would make no difference.
chrome geyser
i don't agree with breaching cross; +900% on the worst dash attack is still not good
cunning urchin
Breaching Cross is easily one of the best hammers in the game.
pseudo stream
ah, why? lame but reasonable. I find dash uppers very risky, the lag time gets me hit a lot (Demeter too)
chrome geyser
but Nyaanyaa plays higher heat than me and has higher win rate so take their advice over mine
pseudo stream
I've had very good experiences with breaching cross too
chrome geyser
I like colossus or rolling much better
cunning urchin
You'll punch through armor like butter.
chrome geyser
the ranged special is kinda fun
robust geyser
Isn't colossus only good if you... get hit?
solid cairn
yes punching butter, an everyday action us normal humans do
chrome geyser
it's +180 damage. It's high; but not amazing. But maybe i should give it a better chance
I'm always dubious about higher damage to armor anyway; cause im on heat 20 and bosses are disproportionately more trouble than enemies
cunning urchin
@solid cairn no, I'm saying you'll punch through armor like how butter punches through armor.
robust geyser
Hmmm
solid cairn
magic dagger
+180 damage on an attack as fast as the fists' dash-strike is nothing to sneer at
chrome geyser
i want my hammers to work on bosses dammit!
magic dagger
armor sucks btw
much worse than bosses
chrome geyser
Petition to make bosses' first life stage count as armor.
robust geyser
Personally, I consider things that don't work on the final boss mostly useless.
chrome geyser
If i turned on bonus damage, more enemies or more health; I would probably value it more
cunning urchin
Breaching Cross is a big factor vs Hades.
chrome geyser
for em4
robust geyser
But I'm sure that is not a viable mindset for someone either playing on higher heat than me or just... good at that fight.
chrome geyser
I try to burst redacted down so that i don't have to deal with the riffraff
reef galleon
Doesn't the final boss incorporate almost everything that can be used in regular encounters though?
chrome geyser
after the first stage; marked becomes useless
main zodiac
isn't Hades moveset is easy enough so you dont have special treatment to him?
main zodiac
just matter of time how fast you will kill him
cunning urchin
Hardest part of the Hades fight is phase 1, and that's because of the summons.
chrome geyser
he deals a lot of damage. And unless you have extra mobility; it's very hard to dodge
cunning urchin
All the summons have armor.
So breaking armor fast in that fight is pretty great.
chrome geyser
the good thing is; in ||em4 they disappear half the time||
main zodiac
i am playing with 1 dodge + boon to increase movespeed after dash
main zodiac
that's more than enough to dodge easily
chrome geyser
and the only huge trouble summon I find to be the giant crystal cause i can't see whats happening; and the gorgon cause they petrify me from time to time.
main zodiac
great shields troublesome sometimes
chrome geyser
you need to dash at least twice out of hades range to evade the double spear spin
robust geyser
Unless your timing is very good.
chrome geyser
and you will get hit if he shows his circle while your dash is on cooldown
robust geyser
Oh wait, double spin.
chrome geyser
which happens when you use dash attacks to attack.
main zodiac
you can just dodge through him and he will finish his combo in opposite direction
reef galleon
He can double spin ||on EM4||?
chrome geyser
with increased mobility (sprint after dash, +movespeed) you can get out of range with one dash
unkempt zephyr
He can double spin ||on EM4||?
@reef galleon of course
untold quiver
I love the cinematic awesomeness of frequently being built up to where I pop my max call at the start of Hades phase 2, or theseus call phase
cunning urchin
Single-dash Hades fight is perfectly doable. No need for Hyper Sprint or anything of the sort.
chrome geyser
my reactions are not good enough to guarantee it. The second spin hits me
cunning urchin
Single-dash Hades fight with FO2 is also doable, but quite the different story. Far from easy.
chrome geyser
im sure it's doable; but I can't seem to do it.
Oh i'm talking about FO2 all the time
main zodiac
using || Hades call|| in Hades bossfight is funny
chrome geyser
Yeah; single dash i can dodge everything on FO1
cunning urchin
I grinded all the boss fights with just a single dash for hours every day before I did 52 Heat.
Well, mostly Hades and some EM3.
There was no EM4 then.
chrome geyser
Highest I did was 32; and that was a few updates ago; where 32 meant almost everything had to be turned on
I like my FO2, EM4, MM, TD1
which is either 19 or 21
which i'm comfy with
winrate is 60%
cunning urchin
I also had Divine Dash and Smoldering Air in my saves when I practiced them . . . neither of which I ever ended up getting in my actual run lol.
That was the plan: Charged Flight (from a seed), get Heartbreak Flourish in Tartarus, get Divine Dash and Smoldering Air before Elysium.
magic dagger
iirc I suggested that you should practice with bad builds
chrome geyser
oh you have to seed search for things like 52 heat right?
fair plinth
question - does sisypus' shackles work if you have an unevolved chaos boon?
chrome geyser
@fair plinth it should; doesn't it say olympian?
fair plinth
no, it just says boon
chrome geyser
oh then probably does not work
robust geyser
I think it checks for the boons you can always see on the left side of the screen, but I'm not sure.
magic dagger
it only counts core boons
cunning urchin
Well, I just kept dying until I got a Charged Flight hammer in chamber 1, yeah.
fair plinth
but in its unevolved stage it doesn't buff the attacks
chrome geyser
why is charged flight good?
cunning urchin
AP2 kind of forces you to do that at very high heats.
Because it was +400% Damage at the time, multiplicative.
It's still great, but nerfed to +200%.
chrome geyser
oh that was why people said beowulf was op
wait it's base damage?
thats wild
that's not how charged skewer works though right?
the bonus on charged skewer is not multiplicative with boon +%
chrome geyser
wait really?
i thought charged skewer was not base but extra
hmm
I should do more guan yu runs
cunning urchin
That'd be why I mainly play spear 4 when I play Varatha lol.
magic dagger
try serrated point, it's even better than charged skewer
unique vigil
no luck on the ME build, I have the requisites for it but never got the actual boon
chrome geyser
also unrelated; but after complaining that I was swimming in darkness; I got to delta overseer and ran out of darkness. I even sold my fated authority to pay for this badge. What's a good strategy to get to unseen one quickly?
cunning urchin
serrated point
I don't like it right now. I can make it all the way to Hades in record time with Serrated Point then die in phase 2 lol.
chrome geyser
serrated point is powerful; i love the concept
unique vigil
I upgraded my strike to the heroic aphrodite one because I couldn't get ME, should be chilling though
chrome geyser
but EM4 hades murders you on FO2
cunning urchin
FO4 lol.
chrome geyser
you lose immediately
cunning urchin
FO4 is still less than FO2 + Speeder.
magic dagger
FO4 would be murder
chrome geyser
it should remove the dash penalty; and instead put a -50% damage penalty
fair plinth
I'm using zag bow right now - should I pick up special inflict doom or urge to kill
fair plinth
epic curse of pain vs rare urge to kill
chrome geyser
I mean instead of reducing your dash distance; you should be doing -50% damage on dash strikes
magic dagger
no
cunning urchin
No.
unique vigil
cunning urchin
fair plinth
does hermes' swift strike attack speed bonus improve bow's charge time?
unkempt pagoda
it should
unique vigil
pretty sure it does
fair plinth
question is does it improve it 20% faster, or just the "attack animation" part
chrome geyser
the only thing that was counterintuitive with hermes speed boons was that it doesn't make the blitz disk travel faster
cunning urchin
The real answer is no one has actually counted the frames to tell you that.
cunning urchin
I don't think it's ever thrown me off tbh.
unkempt pagoda
who knows, we could all be under the placebo effect right now and hermes boons do literally nothing
chrome geyser
the fists really do matter
fair plinth
well it's either that or seccond wind
unique vigil
one thing I noticed is that the increased special speed seems to do nothing with rail 4 special
chrome geyser
you go from yah-yah-yah-yah-kyah! to RATATATATATATA
fair plinth
hermes boon would be wack
cunning urchin
People thought Zag Aspect actually increased Attack speed on Malphon, and it only ever affected the first hit lol.
chrome geyser
it lowers cooldown, not the travel time @unique vigil
unique vigil
ah
unkempt pagoda
increased special speed should decrease lobbing time and should cause the hellfire to pulse faster
delicate furnace
waht's good with demeter's cast ?
cunning urchin
I take Swift Strike on Coronacht in good faith that Amir is a nice person who wouldn't make it do nothing.
chrome geyser
lobbing time is the same
unkempt pagoda
atleast, that's how it's always looked to me
fair plinth
ok confirmed, hermes attack speed boon definitely makes charged arrow faster
unique vigil
I got curse of longing instead of ME, interesting lol
chrome geyser
@delicate furnace glacial glare from demeter, and arctic blast. Then artemis for the duo
and stygian soul
delicate furnace
oh stygian soul ?
robust anchor
how should i build chiron? maybe dio special
chrome geyser
yeah. stygian soul allows you to get bad news from hermes; which is a huge damage boost.
delicate furnace
@robust anchor zeus's kinda nice too
unique vigil
as long as you get the +shots to special and increased dmg on special shots from the hammer upgrades
chrome geyser
also you can drop whenever you charge up; you will have like 5-6 turrets locked in on enemies
delicate furnace
@chrome geyser i seee.. i'll try it thanks !
unique vigil
I don't like zeus in general tbh
robust anchor
i like zeus with eris
chrome geyser
if you can; also get poseidon for possible mirage shot with artemis
bronze sorrel
Lightning Flourish has a cooldown so its not great on chiron
unique vigil
his boons are only really good for aoe
delicate furnace
@unique vigil yeah i' not too keen on it also... feels underwhelming
unique vigil
mhm
chrome geyser
eris wants zeus on attack; with also support fire
robust anchor
yesterday i saw a streamer try art on special it was cool
chrome geyser
zeus is crazy good on rail; since the attack really works well with flat damage boost
cunning urchin
Even if that was true, AOE is great.
chrome geyser
i think highest dps; and aoe is useful
cunning urchin
Highest DPS on Rail, yes.
unique vigil
aoe is good but I only really struggle with the final boss, not normal encounters
chrome geyser
zeus on rail is very high dps even without jolted
but you want jolted for privileged status anyway
bronze sorrel
I like Heartbreak Flourish for Chiron. Go for Unhealthy Fixation.
chrome geyser
speaking of which; cold fusion is useless with that too
since jolted gets applied all the time
cunning urchin
I rarely ever play with Privileged Status.
chrome geyser
chiron is generally crazy good
I like going early dio with flourish to pom it up to like 10 early with the blossom
then going for the triple due of artemis, aphrodite dionysus
magic dagger
I rarely ever play with Privileged Status.
lol same
cunning urchin
It's nice to hear that about Chiron after all the "Chiron is the worst aspect" before 1.0 (and after they buffed Varatha).
robust geyser
haha
chrome geyser
chiron was always the best aspect; they just don't know how to play the game
hands down chiron is my highest winrate weapon
robust geyser
I never levelled (leveled?) Chiron before now.
cunning urchin
Much of that "Chiron is the worst aspect" was potentially from me.
chrome geyser
well you came around
bronze sorrel
Was chiron actually considering bad by high level players? I always liked it.
chrome geyser
so you are good
unique vigil
speaking of bow aspects
chrome geyser
it's really worth it with only full investment though
unique vigil
I somehow have every hidden aspect except the bow one
chrome geyser
some aspects are like that
stiff flume
damnit man, gilgamesh gloves are great until you maim empowered hades... i just lost 5 lives in one fight lol
chrome geyser
just get artemis a lot
stiff flume
he hurts so damn much
robust anchor
my favorite bow is zag
cunning urchin
It was somewhat universally considered bad tbh. Some players liked it, though, of course.
chrome geyser
keep talking to her; she has some plot to advance
bronze sorrel
I also sometimes build Curse of Pain or Divine Flourish and go for Merciful End on Chiron.
bronze sorrel
Doom Activator build
chrome geyser
i mean you generally should
cunning urchin
Coronacht's Special had way too much recovery. You'd be stuck in animation for literally more than half a second once you pressed Special.
unique vigil
my ||gilgamesh|| build is just a bunch of random stuff at this point but it's working so whatever lol
bronze sorrel
Ah see I'm way to much of a scrub to track recovery frames
unique vigil
I'm just gonna try not to maim ||hades|| to avoid getting 1 shot (:
cunning urchin
@unique vigil spoiler tags.
unique vigil
whoops
cunning urchin
Not the final boss. The aspect.
chrome geyser
yeah; forget about using the ||maim||. it's not good
cunning urchin
Because it's still new.
unique vigil
oh
chrome geyser
I think we can generally drop the spoiler stuff within like two weeks
but a lot of content is still new to a lot of people; that joined in on launch
stray holly
Hera + Crush Shot + Greater Recall + Quick Reload (Infernal Soul) + Twin Shot + Snow Burst
Fun times :D
cunning urchin
Yesterday, mods still complained.
chrome geyser
I love that hera now uses flare versions. It's such an upgrade
bronze sorrel
I'd give it another month at least with so many new players
chrome geyser
I got a very well writte feedback post deleted cause i did not spoiler tagged it
cunning urchin
Anyway, I've personally taken the approach of just calling all the hidden aspects "Fists 4" etc. since there are so many new players.
At least for now.
stiff flume
does anyone have build suggestions for beowulf shield? ~15 heat runs
unique vigil
I tried out beowulf yesterday, it does great damage but it feels kinda clunky
cunning urchin
@stiff flume Eternal Rose into Tartarus, take Heartbreak Flourish first, then Heartbreak Strike + Passion Flare.
Keep your Dash empty for Divine Dash and Call empty for Zeus' Aid.
chrome geyser
also; stygian soul
cunning urchin
No.
Never Stygian Soul on Beowulf.
That's worse than Infernal Soul with just 1 ammo.
Your cast will drop immediately with Beowulf, so you can pick it up immediately.
If you use Stygian Soul, you'll have to wait.
stiff flume
whats pashion flare 🤔 the cast?
bronze sorrel
I think we should just refer to ||Gilgamesh|| as aspect of Muhammad Ali until spoilers are off just to see how many people will think its a real thing. :P
cunning urchin
Passion Flare is Lady Aphrodite's Cast if you use the aspect, yes.
If you run EM3 and don't have Divine Dash before Asphodel, take the Owl Pendant into Asphodel and get that.
chrome geyser
i hate fetching it cause it takes so long for them to land on the floor; i'm usually far away by then
stiff flume
hmmm why do you take this cast? dont you already have 2 abilitiers that cause the weak status effect?
cunning urchin
If you don't run EM3 or already have Divine Dash, take the Thunder Signet into Asphodel and get Zeus' Aid. Aim for Smoldering Air once you have that.
chrome geyser
it's one of thhigher damage flare casts right?
cunning urchin
Because it has large AOE and does a ton of damage. Better than the casts that Lady Athena or Lord Zeus offer on the aspect.
And you'll want those three gods, ideally.
cunning urchin
You'll kill most enemies in a few attacks, anyway, and the aspect takes 10% more damage from enemies, so if all your Attacks/Special/Cast apply Weak, you won't have to worry about that at all.
bronze sorrel
Idk why so many people seem to think smouldering air is bad??? Are they running it with Artemis Aid?
cunning urchin
If you play on pad, I recommend setting Cast to maybe LB/L1.
chrome geyser
my cast is the O button; and call is the triangle
attack X, special square
right side all attack; left side all movement
bronze sorrel
I almost never wait for greater call anyway.
cunning urchin
You don't need to load your casts before a bull-rush for them to explode at the end. You can load them at any point mid-bull rush.
cunning urchin
You can even pick up casts mid-rush and load them immediately, and they'll explode at the end.
bronze sorrel
Can you do that with Hera too?
cunning urchin
Because you can load one, bull-rush, and load the others meanwhile. It's faster.
bronze sorrel
Thats game changing
chrome geyser
ugh do i have to give beowulf more chances again?
maybe ill like it this time more
solid cairn
tfw no ME on gilgamesh when my ares attack is like level 5
cunning urchin
Can you do that with Hera too?
Not that I'm aware of.
unique vigil
bronze sorrel
ugh do i have to give beowulf more chances again?
@chrome geyser I think Nyaanyaa has set some records with it so safe to say its pretty good.
unique vigil
@cunning urchin I finished the run with malphon 4, though my build was a mess lmao
chrome geyser
i mean; my fav to play is the zeus one; but it's very slow. Since chaos got nerfed; I have been barely playing the shield. So giving it a chance would be nice
cunning urchin
I did most of my runs with it trying to beat 56 Heat before school started again this year lol. (I did not make it in time. 
)
unique vigil
unless you're using chaos aspect
foggy wagon
Heck it'd probably be jacked with just bull rush and block
solid cairn
poseidon is just more engaging to use
cunning urchin
@unique vigil congrats!
cunning urchin
Very far removed from what I recommended. 
foggy wagon
Curse of longing is pretty fun
Have it on ||Guan Yu|| right now with weak on special
Plus trippy flare is fun
unique vigil
I cleared elysium and still didn't have ME so I swapped out some boons lmao
solid cairn
using it right now
reliant on merciful end
it's also one of the aspects where upgrading it basically does nothing
bronze sorrel
I think you should censor it
hearty elbow
Grrr, amgery furry slaps
solid cairn
it increases maim damage but maim is pretty wack
foggy wagon
If you don't want spoilers I feel like you shouldn't be in this chat lol
bronze sorrel
Spoiler tags are still required for new aspect and keepsakes
solid cairn
I like to go for ruthless reflex
foggy wagon
Ahhh
solid cairn
without merciful end it's pretty bad
bronze sorrel
Ya we mostly spoil everything but mods want the new weapon keepsakes and the ending spoil tagged on all channels for a bit I think so people have some time to get them first
Your free to talk about the other 5 hidden aspects by name.
foggy wagon
Kk
Yeah I haven't reached the true ending yet
And I actually didn't know there were new weapon keepsakes
Not that I care
If I didn't want spoilers I wouldn't be here lol
I'm mostly here curious about fun builds
bronze sorrel
I actually don't think I have the final epilogue yet either, even though I ||brought Persephone home||. Still must be some more stuff I guess?
regarding ||gilgamesh||, i just miss being able to hit fast and stuff; maim seems too risky for me since i haven't gotten better with dodging yet
@lime lodge
Use dash attack for everything and you'll hit fast. Thats kinda the point of the weapon. Lots of dashes.
solid cairn
dash strikes gud
foggy wagon
Are there any legit revenge builds?
bronze sorrel
You can get 8 dashes between greater reflex (mirror; +1), heroic greatest reflex (hermes; +4) and the two from ||Gilgamesh||
solid cairn
bit excessive
unique vigil
what gods work well with excalibur btw?
bronze sorrel
Splash dash all day is the only way to play
unique vigil
I used it for the first time today and I just used whatever I got but I want to try doing a proper build
cunning urchin
||maim|| seems too risky for me since i haven't gotten better with dodging yet
I'm good at i-framing, and I don't use the Dash-Upper on it because it's too risky.
Too much recovery.
bronze sorrel
Ya, I also have found myself not using dash upper.
fiery token
i mean fists aren't a special weapon
even the demeter aspect
the extra damage is nice but you still need to hot
unique vigil
oh yeah
fiery token
hit
bronze sorrel
i mean fists aren't a special weapon
@fiery token well that's just mean and unnecessary.
fiery token
i never said its bad
unique vigil
feels pretty strong
hearty elbow
He meant you don't use special exclusively
bronze sorrel
I'm just razzing I know what you meant
cunning urchin
Dash-Uppers are used a lot on any Malphon aspect that isn't the hidden one.
unique vigil
chaos shield is pretty strong
cunning urchin
I'd use it on Fists 4 if Dash-Strike into Dash-Upper comboed with just one dash like it does on all the other Malphon aspects.
bronze sorrel
Are you sure Dash Upper is good on Demeter?
cunning urchin
Yes.
fiery token
I never use dash upper but thats keyboard :)
hearty elbow
Or if you didn't have to wait for a couple of centuries to be able to dash out of the upper
cunning urchin
I'm the Queen of Malphon. Of course I'm sure. 
hearty elbow
Keyboard controls are a mystery to me in general. You can only move in a discrete number of directions
fickle anvil
Keyboard controls are a mystery to me in general. You can only move in a discrete number of directions
@hearty elbow yeah but funny enough, the levels are designed with the keyboard directions in mind
also you can aim casts with mouse precision
cunning urchin
@fiery token you can press Special immediately after a Dash-Strike. Zag will do a Dash-Upper right after without doing another Dash.
fiery token
casts semi follow the enemies anyway though
cunning urchin
Doesn't work on Fists 4.
fickle anvil
not if you remove aim assist
unique vigil
bind it to middle mouse
bronze sorrel
Serious question though, for Demeter Aspect, do you generally finish every attack sequence with upper and just get a boost on the third one, or do you charge it and save for the right moment? I never have gotten that aspect to work for me.
hearty elbow
Boost on the third one...?
fiery token
I treat it as basically "oh nice free damage haha"
cunning urchin
Dash-Strike > Dash-Upper > repeat is a typical combo on tanky enemies with Demeter Aspect, too.
As in, the combo I just described with Dash-Strike followed by Dash-Upper in just a single Dash.
You just keep doing that.
fiery token
imagine if they gave rail hitstun
vital drift
use it when you can if youve buffed it with good boons, or just spam dash strike + punches is what I do
cunning urchin
@bronze sorrel like in this fight. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuE9jZRHhlU
solid cairn
artemis cast is one of the best choices with poseidon, right
thorn jolt
how does Wave Pounding and Second Wave interact?
does this mean that for any poseidon knock-away effect, you'd get 2x bonus damage instead of the knockaway, vs Bosses?
bronze sorrel
Thx, that is way more than I've been using it lol
solid raptor
Anyone got a resource for builds for the different aspects?
unique vigil
when you see a perfect boon for your build but you can't pick it because of approval process
solid cairn
the fact that it shows you what you cant pick is just cruel
wintry lodge
artemis cast is one of the best choices with poseidon, right
@solid cairn i found artemis cast underwhelming with aspect of poseidon. i prefer aphrodite cast
unique vigil
I'd prefer if it just showed nothing
solid cairn
^
median oar
yeah same
unique vigil
then I wouldn't know what I was missing out on
solid cairn
I guess that's the point
hearty elbow
Eh, Artemis can crit, so it has a higher ceiling
unique vigil
median oar
and then you get the duo boon dialogue
hearty elbow
Aphro is chunkier and has AoE
median oar
and the duo boon is crossed out
pine folio
wats beat atk boon for spear
hearty elbow
Artemis also gives you an easier out to Mirage Shot
wintry lodge
aphro has blown kiss and weak, and also combos well with snow burst for extra damage and privileged status
hearty elbow
Also aphro gives you easier access to Smoldering Air
They're both fine. And probably the only real choices unless you're going for a Flood Shot duo
Or Lightning Phalanx
hearty elbow
Crush Shot
solid cairn
ah
main osprey
@thorn jolt (from #hades-feedback ) that's called building Tempest Flourish on Talos :P
solid cairn
I'm learnding
thorn jolt
that's just one weapon @main osprey
plus Second Wave feels bad
only when you get Sea Storm maybe
and Wave Pounding / Typhoons Fury
main osprey
yeah--it's better when you have synergies that support it
I dunno, Second Wave + Rupture is a lotta damage
thorn jolt
oh truue
thorn jolt
that is a synergy that feels really good to pin people
main osprey
the one (1) downside I've found with Second Wave, is sometimes you can push flying enemies way off the map xD
I try to 
those, but it's still sad sometimes xD
thorn jolt
I feel like Second Wave shines on ranged weapons
hearty elbow
I wish Poseidon boons would like, baby-scooch bosses
main osprey
okay
but like
Ares' blades
can pull Asterius out of his charge
but Poseidon can't push the dude 5 ft
thorn jolt
but it's always maddening to me to see it on fists
some melee weapons feel like there is anti synergy with more knockback, especially since shield and sword have innate knockback, since getting a wall pin is hard in open maps and it just makes you miss your follow-on attacks
hearty elbow
i hate the knockback on Zag shield. It's my favorite part of Pulverizing, besides the double damage
solid cairn
yeah thats pretty significant
solid cairn
it is one of the hardest modifiers
cunning urchin
what cast do you want for smoldering air tho
Any Call that isn't Artemis' Aid.
unique vigil
I think I'll have finished harsh conditions after this run
I ran out of titan blood so it'll be really good to get
stiff flume
@cunning urchin finished the beowulf run ez pz, thanks for the build
cunning urchin
Sure thing! Congratulations!
stiff flume
damn what heat are you on that you have to run approval process?
i absolutely hate that one, never use it
proven osprey
45 
stiff flume
figures lol
unique vigil
stiff flume
i love the empowered hades, makes getting all weapons to 20 pretty easy
since he just counts for 4 heat
👌
hearty elbow
It is. But very manageable without other pacts, especially FO or HL
FO2 EM4 is something lol
oof
robust geyser
I must say, whenever I see "EM4" my brain goes "map 4, yes, but what episode?"
stiff flume
whats fo?
robust geyser
Forced overtime.
stiff flume
ah, attackspeed?
robust geyser
20% (FO1) or 40% (FO2) increased enemy speed.
stiff flume
that one is scary
robust geyser
Attack and movement.
robust geyser
I think it's... probably the easiest one?
unique vigil
I've only done FO1
hearty elbow
And projectile and area of effect speed
unique vigil
FO2 might be hard
robust geyser
The reason I think that is because it changes how you play the game, but does not make the game's math harder.
hearty elbow
It does narrow the frame windows for dodging things, and shortens your reaction window
Which are all game math things too
robust geyser
In other words, it can be almost fully accounted for with a change of how one plays that I think is less significant than increasing damage would be.
And yes, the exception is reaction time.
Oh, sorry, robot.
hearty elbow
It also makes certain things, like faster Witch projecitles much easier to get chained into because of projectile speed and stun
FO2 Asterius is also one of the more triggering enemies in the game. It stacks with Speeder on BP2 as well.
FO2 is manageable but definitely deserves its 6 heat
covert hatch
So Zeus shield, should I take Deflect on attack or special
robust geyser
Is it good now?
I remember Zeus shield always being Chaos's less accomplished cousin.
covert hatch
I'm shooting for the Ares/Athena duo with my fingers crossed
robust geyser
Then you definitely want deflect on special (for merciful end requirements) and dash (for actually making use of the duo in question), and curse on attack.
covert hatch
👍
foggy wagon
Blitz Disc is fun and safer than Chaos in theory but in practice it usually does a lot less.
unique vigil
@solid cairn cleared with a pretty good heart rend build
ebon tinsel
how is aspect of hades built?
split wharf
Is stubborn defiance as bad as I think it is?
ebon tinsel
it is XD
split wharf
I'm having a really hard time imagining how it fits into any part of the hades meta/progression
random light
Stubborn Defiance is the go to for extremely high heat
split wharf
How so?
random light
because getting to the boss often sucks more than the boss
split wharf
Rooms just become that rough, then?
random light
oh yeah
split wharf
I guess that makes some sense
random light
especially with things like Jury Summons, Forced Overtime, Damage Control
split wharf
Hadn't considered that, in fact
random light
and on bosses, you can use the Acorn trinket to block five instances of damage, between that and your own skill even the Extreme Measures bosses won't be giving you as much grief compared to just getting there
probably XD
split wharf
Yeah that does make sense
random light
Extreme Measures 3 and 4 with Forced Overtime and Hard Labor sounds horrendous
split wharf
I was thinking it more as a casual tool if someone was dying in rooms a lot and couldn't really make sense of it at all
split wharf
But the high heat angle seems a lot more sensible
random light
for the super new and the super experienced
split wharf
I think it's actually really bad if you're new
gusty parcel
Heading into Hades em4 with 8 total boons.
random light
godspeed
split wharf
Because of the high darkness investment that could be going somewhere else
I just did extreme measures 4 with Stubborn Defiance haha
random light
It's a one time investment of Darkness
split wharf
Felt like an additional pact condition
ebon tinsel
plus early on your way more likely to die to a boss than a room
random light
and its not like darkness is hard to come by
just go back to 0 heat and grab the dark thirst weapon
split wharf
Farming darkness is pretty swift even for a new player yea
onyx parcel
random light
but it make the BIG NUMBER
split wharf
I don't even have Arthur haha
unique vigil
the attacks are much smoother if you get swift strike though
split wharf
Aspect unlocks have been so slooow for me
unique vigil
arthur is really good imo
random light
try Demeter Fists @split wharf it's fun
thick raptor
Arthur works well with dash behind/special, take two swings, then dash strike
ebon tinsel
arthur is great keep in mind you can dash during swim wind up
split wharf
I like Lucifer and Rama a lot
random light
I love Rama, i want to like Lucifer but not being able to move while firing is 
split wharf
Not too keen on Beowulf so far but it's possble I haven't found the right build
ebon tinsel
4k damage arthur crit kekw
split wharf
Special -> cast for big explosion
random light
Poseidon sword is starting to grow on me
unique vigil
I still don't have rama somehow
random light
i do like the cast build with it
unique vigil
I've been getting so many artemis boons but I'm still not unlocking it
split wharf
I play a lot with alternate cast
unique vigil
I have fully upgraded chiron too so idk
split wharf
I don't like collecting my casts haha
random light
I use Stygian Soul unless I'm using Poseidon
random light
Infernal synergizes too, if you're using Poseidon, since the special insta frees the casts
split wharf
I use infernal for posidon too ofc
Also if I'm forcing a Demeter crystal thing or whatever
unkempt zephyr
Some one know?. Poseidon cast with Duo poseidon+Ares . its works some how with Duo Poseidon + demeter?
wary jackal
whats the opinion on privileged status vs family fav?
stoic thicket
Priv Status all day every day unless it's a planned Artemis run.
split wharf
That's the +40% conditions thing right?
wary jackal
yeah
split wharf
I do tend to use the regular thing there
random light
every run is an Artemis run for me so I use Family Favorite
split wharf
It's pretty easy to inflict 2 conditions a lot of the time I find
stoic thicket
I rarely use Arty so it's mostly Priv Status.
wary jackal
same, so I guess i'll stick with priv
split wharf
I don't use Artemis as a base often
unique vigil
priv status is pretty strong
wary jackal
i only go artemis when i go hera bow for the cast
split wharf
But I branch out into her pretty often
cunning urchin
The difference doesn't matter all that much tbh.
unique vigil
if I get doom on my special and then get the stacking doom damage boon, would that work together
median oar
I can't really make any bow work for me. rama special spam is as close I got to something that felt ok
unique vigil
for chiron bow
limber pine
Rama bow is a shotgun, you don't need to fully charge it
glass ether
how to fight with gyan yu against redacted? It decimates the whole game, but against him it seems pretty bad
unique vigil
poke
glass ether
really
glass ether
so I just have terrible hp with no benefits against him
limber pine
dash out of the way, don't need to fully charge your attack on GY for it to be good
median oar
honestly all you need is to train the don't muscle memory dash attack
glass ether
I'm usually getting fast charge with hammer, he just not being hit enough
limber pine
you can get to 150+ hp with GY, the hp nerf isn't much unless you're not fully upgrading it
unique vigil
well you can life steal
median oar
cause then you get to use the immunity window your chained dash gives rather than cancel it with an attack. at least that was my bad habit
the telegraphs are very generous on him
limber pine
you ARE using a level 5 GY right?
glass ether
lvl 4 I think
robust geyser
Ehhh, life-stealing with GY is less than reliable.
glass ether
I have about -50%
gusty parcel
That's lvl 5
glass ether
55 seems correct
limber pine
or just get Arti Special and spam that
glass ether
I have 40-50 at the start
robust geyser
Arti being artemis?
ebon tinsel
gy or hades? i have maxed achillies and dont tend to enjoy its stronger builds
gusty parcel
gy is more fun for me. The special is great. The charged attack is fun to use.
robust geyser
Uhhh... that choice is up to you, since their playstyles are so radically different, I would not say they can be compared.
limber pine
yea artemis, I assume it works well. I just spam leeching hurricanes with GY
split wharf
I think all the lifesteal things tend to more or less hard carry me through a run tbh
unique vigil
I enjoy achilles personally
gusty parcel
Hades is fun too but not as fun for me. Very different playstyles for sure
split wharf
Lifesteal sword and to a lesser extent Guan Yu
robust geyser
Huh.
glass ether
I think all the lifesteal things tend to more or less hard carry me through a run tbh
@split wharf I agree, but against redacted they are somewhat useless
robust geyser
In my experience, lifesteal is... less than useful, most of the time?
gusty parcel
The problem with them is that vs the boss you don't really get the healing because the max hp loss is so painful and you die in 1-2 hits anyways.
glass ether
too much damage can be taken in short amount of time
limber pine
what attack are you using on GY? If you have trouble against things like Redacted, maybe try Demeter Attack to slow him down
split wharf
I find that for the fight with redacted, I'll always be fine unless I've lost too much to attrition
And lifesteal basically means no more attrition
gusty parcel
It helps stop attrition damage, but you're usually dying to bosses where the lifesteal doesn't matter as much imo.
But each to their own. My playstyle might be very different so w/e
fading fog
best god for aspect of hera cast?
glass ether
what attack are you using on GY? If you have trouble against things like Redacted, maybe try Demeter Attack to slow him down
@limber pine charging the spin. Why would I use anything else with this aspect? 😄 I got demeter attack the first run. redacted killed me with 1 hp left, that close is unacceptable 🙂
split wharf
On low-heat runs (less than like 15), I tend to find attrition is the thing that kills me
That or Charon
robust geyser
haha
limber pine
@glass ether I'm talking about what attack boon, dude
glass ether
@glass ether I'm talking about what attack boon, dude
@limber pine the last run was Artemis
split wharf
And yeah the spin is kinda the only good part about GY ;P
robust geyser
Nnnnot really?
split wharf
The special is... interesting?
limber pine
maybe just upgrade your GY fully, GY special is also great damage if you build for it
split wharf
And I think the base attack is kinda eh
ebon tinsel
special is one of its best builds
robust geyser
I think its range is also... biiiiig.
split wharf
It's possible there's a build there I just haven't tried, then
Doesn't seem worth slashing your hp so much for, but I guess if people say it's good
gusty parcel
GY special is the best part about it imo. Spin attack is still kinda hard to use without the hammers for it.
limber pine
Or try Athena Attack with GY for deflecting leeching hurricane
split wharf
tbf, I tend to highly prioritize spin hammers for GY
glass ether
it''s a fun weapon, no denying that
split wharf
Also I go for athena a lot, yeah
robust geyser
Fast spin is cool with it.
glass ether
I'll try athena too
split wharf
I did a fast spin run just recently
limber pine
the GY hammer that makes it go further is also fun
glass ether
the GY hammer that makes it go further is also fun
@limber pine I got fast charge AND this one last run. what a shame
robust geyser
What's that one do?
limber pine
healing when no DD?
robust geyser
Ohh
split wharf
I think it's like 1 per second or something?
robust geyser
That's... not very useful?
robust anchor
do you guys know the chance to get a duo/legendary boon? if i already got the requisites and no mirror help
split wharf
It meant I could be a big chicken vs extreme Hades haha
robust geyser
I actually tried it once, and I think trying to make use of it on the final boss is precisely what brought my demise.
ebon tinsel
so how is hades built and played more traditionally attack based?
limber pine
Faster Spin, then just charge and dash in I assume
split wharf
lv3 epic athena call, to be precise
robust geyser
That's... long invincibility.
robust anchor
wym attack based?
split wharf
Meant I could max call and just stand next to Hades and spin attack to recover a lot of health
robust anchor
some builds focus on special or cast
ebon tinsel
like dash attack etc
split wharf
And since taking damage restores call, I was pretty dang hard to kill as a result
robust anchor
try getting serrated point hammer
split wharf
Never been super into Hades Spear
I think it just doesn't really do it for my playstyle
robust geyser
I like it more than Achilles, but I need to play the latter more, since it was massively buffed.
split wharf
I think Chiron Bow is the one I have the most consistent runs with
I suspect that might be true for a lot of people(?)
Feels like easymode to me at least
robust geyser
For me it's been one of those "it's only good at high levels and I didn't have much blood" aspects.
fading fog
chiron is great with posiedon special
split wharf
But with Chiron I usually just find I can get a damage-boost boon and some chaos ups and just melt bosses
But to be fair, I have a lot of blood in it
I think mine is level 4?
limber pine
it's just super safe
split wharf
Oops haha
You can deal a ton of damage without being in any danger
Whereas to get that kind of damage with other weapons, you usually put yourself in a bit of risk
limber pine
GY?
limber pine
ah
split wharf
I think GY is pretty good, anyway
I like both
The thing that kills my runs is attrition
And cursed/GY gets rid of attrition
untold quiver
I like Chiron with curse of pain, and dire Misfortune
split wharf
When I lose on heat 10 or less, it's usually because my build didn't come together until too late and I used up too many death defies before Hades
I like Chiron with basically anything lol
Demeter special + 10 chill burst is probably my favorite though
lol
glass ether
i'll figure out guan yu, im aint giving up
split wharf
Athena is probably a good start
I like Hestia gun a lot
But only with a fair bit of blood
Beeg number
gusty parcel
Best part of gy is the special imo. The rest is just gravy.
split wharf
Hmm, guess I'll try GY special some time
It does seem pretty safe
Delta is the big blast?
fading fog
gun 4th aspect is best anyway
limber pine
unlimited ammo
gusty parcel
Delta is 3 round burst and no reload
split wharf
Does it proc arrows for every hit?
Ah
I see
I think homing shot is my favorite gun upgrade
gusty parcel
I don't like it cause it doesn't fit well with any aspect. Hestia wants the reload (Unless they've changed it so you can still manually reload). Zagreus already has a ton of ammo. Eris, I've never really gotten the hang of so it might be good there. And 4th can't even get it.
fading fog
gun 4th aspect procs arrows (and Lightning Strike chain damage) for every tick it hits
indigo pulsar
What do people like most on Chiron bow special?
fading fog
i use poseidon, demeter, or dio
split wharf
What do people like most on Chiron bow special?
@indigo pulsar The fact that it deals a lot of damage
That's really it
gusty parcel
lol
limber pine
Poseidon is probably the best if you can get Zeus with it
indigo pulsar
Lol fair enough
I completely forgot that I wanted to try Poseidon on it
Gonna force them to social distance
gusty parcel
Does chiron special still proc zeus special with every hit?
split wharf
I think Chiron works best with just stacking damage
I don't think(?) it procs Zeus
on every hit
smoky atlas
@KamLouBak#7987 no. Like twice
split wharf
I've had trouble with rapid fire attacks proccing Zeus in particular
ebon tinsel
max rank chiron procs two zeus