you want to be behind enemies as often as possible. even without backstab bonuses, it's the safest place to be.
(That's a lot of why the megagorgon got you btw; if you maneuver behind her she will never hit you.)
#h1-builds-and-combat
magic dagger
magic dagger
I hate getting got
dry ember
things got sloppy in asphodel huh
the thing I hate about doing NG is the lack of damage
I don't want to stay in Elysium for half an hour, yknow
magic dagger
I mean
the whole thing is sloppy
watch insane man Vorime's run; even that's sloppy
my runs are ended by slop
it's inescapable
and Elysium will be maybe 10-15 minutes on an okay build
your damage isn't that bad lol
magic dagger
git gud indeed
yeah, I should do that too
half crater
I lost focus for a bit and got got
most of my runs are just one elongated loss of focus
amazing i get out of the first room, tbh
livid comet
are NG runs in vogue rn?
dry ember
I just happen to start a Hell Mode save like couples of days back
half crater
omg
dry ember
So not exactly NG runs
livid comet
heck yeah it is, it's totes trending
half crater
ng in hell mode oh no
dry ember
No no
half crater
i can barely do anything in regular mode lol
dry ember
Just starting a Hell Mode save
magic dagger
it's so weird watching tailesque's high heat Dad spear runs
I'm used to no mirror and the SD and regenerating cast confuse the heck out of me
livid comet
make #HadesNG happen
dry ember
Like a new save, I'm not masochistic enough to do just fresh file
half crater
ah, okay
livid comet
*yet
dry ember
I need my mirror man
half crater
yeah i started one as well recently
dry ember
And my weapons
magic dagger
my new save has zag bow at heroic and zag shield maxed
also chaos maxed but I don't wanna talk about it
livid comet
just get stubborn defiance, it'll get you more mileage from less darkness
magic dagger
it's so bad now
half crater
it’s not that bad
livid comet
lmao
livid comet
ha ha yeah it could be ||gilgamesh|| lol
magic dagger
I started my new file right before 1.0 hit
like, I'd just maxed the chaos shield and then they nerfed it
half crater
oof
half crater
same
dry ember
Well, tell you what
magic dagger
literally before I had a chance to use it it was gone
dry ember
Hard Labor and Chaos curse
tawny rain
guess I should have practiced more or not set Forced Overtime to max, those strongbows sure improved their shooting, damn, that was a fine 32 heat gone pearshaped haha
livid comet
practiced more
I feel ya buddy
dry ember
Dang it, I forgot the don't get hit advice
half crater
pretty sure forced overtime doesn’t have a maximum
it just has a minimum
2
FO2 is the minimum
livid comet
tip: if you deal more damage to your enemies then they do to you, you'll win!
magic dagger
false
tawny rain
yeah tried to rush into the group of em blasting and it didn't work out well even with my dps ahaha
magic dagger
your enemies' combined health pool is significantly greater than your own
tawny rain
^
magic dagger
so just dealing more damage than they do is not enough
dry ember
Your damage is significantly higher than theirs though
magic dagger
you have to deal a lot more damage than them
tawny rain
if I didn't try to gun 4 it and used the usual mortars I might have been able though
magic dagger
Hades spear has a huge hitbox
it's amazing with quik spin
tawny rain
I have noticed that gun 4 indeed on high heat is like "nope"
magic dagger
I ... don't know if you're talking about the spin or not
I have noticed that gun 4 indeed on high heat is like "nope"
@tawny rain it's pretty tricky
tawny rain
you can't use a weapon based on setting up stuff on there xD
it is, i don't dislike gun 4 but it is so unwieldy
livid comet
big dislike
half crater
i kinda dislike it tbh
livid comet
maybe divine flourish might change things
half crater
don’t want to, it’s just never worked out for me
tawny rain
oh it could be a MUCH better weapon indeed
every other weapon got like amazing last aspect
magic dagger
My elder brother wants me to get a seeded (routed lol) any heat run at 4:20 IGT
should I even try?
tawny rain
gun is indeed a flop compared to those
half crater
it has to be, like, exactly 4:20 tho
magic dagger
right
tawny rain
4:20 a whole run? damnnn
magic dagger
not just fast
dry ember
Now
magic dagger
exactly 4:20
half crater
genius
magic dagger
like, if I got 4:19 I wouldn't even submit
dry ember
More impressive if you get to Hades at say 20 mins
And just stay in the ring with him for 4 hours
On FO2
EM4
Now that's proper world record
magic dagger
"longest time survived at the end of the hardest hades run possible"
good world record
half crater
wait for him to spawn all his mini bosses then start waiting, without killing anything
magic dagger
someone get a good one rq
magic dagger
It is currently 12:39 AM, so I'm going to take a nap
don't send any assassins
dry ember
3:40 am
tawny rain
you mean FO2 EM4 after the 2nd bar right?
dry ember
Sending assassins
cunning urchin
@magic dagger 🔫 
tawny rain
it will be sent the usual way too of course
cunning urchin
Special delivery.
half crater
the real question about bouldy is
cunning urchin
livid comet
cuz he Chares about you
tawny rain
I always thought they kept them in their mouth
cunning urchin
You don't ask somebody with that smile questions about their food.
half crater
hmm, wise words
cunning urchin
Lest you become the next sandwich.
tawny rain
...speaking of bouldy I guess i shouldnt carry them with me on 32 heat runs haha
fair plinth
does dodge chance stack additively or multiplicatively?
zag fists + epic hermes boon for example
cunning urchin
Why not? I used Bouldy for my first 32 and 41.
tawny rain
1000 vs like 3000 damage or dusa, dunno, seems bouldy is just to keep you up without LC
cunning urchin
Presumably multiplicative because damage reduction is multiplicative, and it would prevent you naturally from reaching 100% dodge chance.
Yeah, Bouldy is primarily for healing. But the damage is also nice.
jade rover
am I crazy for thinking that heavy knuckle is like, run killingly bad?
cunning urchin
It's pretty good.
tawny rain
doesn't it lower dps from demeter?
tawny rain
i didnt like it either when i got anvil'd with it (to get the codex)
jade rover
I just don't really see an upside, although I was using demeter at the time
cunning urchin
It adds extra punch to your punch.
barren otter
I don't like heavy knuckle either
jade rover
A full combo of heavy knuckle does base of 90 damage compared to 75 without anvil. Any other choice, then blows it out of the water, and taking it reduces synergy with a lot of strike boons. not to mention it just killing demeter
cunning urchin
I liked it more when it added flat damage in the Blood Price beta, but it's pretty good now.
jade rover
with what builds?
fair plinth
it would be better if the damage bonus carried over to other attacks
cunning urchin
Divine Strike, Deadly Strike, Heartbreak Strike, Merciful End.
fair plinth
which it should, since your knuckles are heavier...
giving +15 base damage to special and dash wouldn't be broken
cunning urchin
It would be lol.
fair plinth
especially given the inherent drawbacks/non-synergy with other hammer boons
cunning urchin
There are always hammers that are better in some way.
cunning urchin
I had Heavy Knuckle at 45 Heat. Didn't end my run. Actually helped with DPS.
jade rover
what aspect?
cunning urchin
Talos.
jade rover
You must understand something I don't, I guess. 
proven osprey
Hey guys, usually I don't get to use Poseidon boons. What are they good for ?
reef galleon
they push enemies away from you
and if you invest, you can push twice as hard, and then some
always good in ||styx||, because the areas are very small, makes it very likely to smash everything into a wall to get extra damage
jade rover
You wanna aim for getting Razor Shoals if you're going for a poseidon run, too
it hurts them for moving, and then you force them to move.
crude vessel
what are the actual requirements for guan yu????? there are so many different reports on this, i meet all of them yet i achilles has never talked about it
i have 8 non zagreus aspects unlocked, 6 full runs
stoic thicket
Unlock the fated list, see the final boss at least once, unlock 5 non-Zag aspects, then Achilles. If you don't get it it's RNG.
crude vessel
its bs, i think my save is bugged or smth
livid comet
do more runs
also what do you guys recommend on NG run, ares on special or atk for ME?
🤔
stoic thicket
NG?
livid comet
new game
astral hill
best element for sword in your opinions?
reef galleon
You mean a boon?
dawn barn
zeus, demeter, ares
reef galleon
They're all have their advantages and disadvantages
turbid needle
which sword
dawn barn
stigius, i guess...
turbid needle
nah which aspect I mean
dawn barn
oh, right
robust anchor
how do you guys build eris rail? i tried zeus attack and by floor 3 it really fell off
first 2 floors was great damage though
glass rapids
did you get a duo/legendary?
robust anchor
no
glass rapids
Well try to get cold fusion or smoldering air
robust anchor
which one should i aim for
glass rapids
Or just the zeus legendary
robust anchor
i see
also any tips for aiming the bomb over my head
i hate dashing into enemies to get the buff
jade rover
Shoot it somewhere off to the side then dash into that spot?
empty veldt
Whats the best spear aspect for high heat?
robust anchor
i asked haelian the same and he said achi but i gave it a few tries and failed
glass rapids
All of them are viable except Achilles if you take enough routine inspection to remove infernal/stygian soul
robust anchor
oh
empty veldt
so achilles is the worst?
robust anchor
yes i recommend Zeus cast
daring owl
how r u supposed to avoid minotaur's ram attack?
bright zodiac
dash through a pillar so he crashed into it
reef galleon
Athena dash \ Hermes dash or speed boons \ Lure him into a wall or a pillar \ Hide behind pillars
daring owl
oh ok ty <3
turbid needle
highest clears are with hades aspect but every spear aspect is really good basicially
cunning urchin
Highest clears are with Hades because that's what Tailesque plays.
fair plinth
reading the wiki, for the gemstone upgrade that lets it also drop obols, I'm fairly sure that doesn't get affected by chaos affluence blessing?
I'm running both right now and I notice I'm still only getting 20/gem room
tidal edge
what's the optimal choice if you get the boon you want but it's low rarity?
for example, hestia rail and your first boon is a common rarity heartbreak strike
is it better to skip it?
next moss
First boon is always fine unless youre gunning for very specific
I will say that i have had runs where i end up snobbing first choice and then end up facing champions with no boons
tidal edge
I'm just wondering how the odds work out, like if you have a good chance of getting a rarer version of the same boon or a higher rarity equivalent boon from another god later on if you don't take it
sometimes I get offered swaps from other gods, but IDK what the chances are of that or if that can be manipulated for
vital shadow
Good build for aspect of nemesis? I'm trying Artemis for Crit (on attack/special) + Athena for dash deflect.
robust anchor
try aphro atk, athena or art dash
unkempt zephyr
Good build for aspect of nemesis? I'm trying Artemis for Crit (on attack/special) + Athena for dash deflect.
@vital shadow Aspect of nemesis have base 30% crit chance on attack. Artemis have lowes base damage bonus from boon. Aphro have 2.5 much more damage to attack.And 15% crit chance on artemis attack dont benefit so much. specialy if you plan take another 20% crit from Artemis+Athena duo.Better take Aphro on attack,special artemis and Athena dash.
vital shadow
Oh will try that, didn't know that.
I always thought Artemis was the goto for "crit builds".
Thanks for the tips!
unkempt zephyr
Good build for aspect of nemesis? I'm trying Artemis for Crit (on attack/special) + Athena for dash deflect.
@vital shadow another variant. good too. but more harder to take. but more save becaus demeter slow down enemy.
vital shadow
Cool, will keep these in mind!
unkempt zephyr
Some one have Good Build for Last fists?(not ares attack +athena dash to insane Doom stucking 1K+)
worn citrus
What keepsakes do you people usually use? I'm currently trying to make sure they're all rank 3, but after that I will be free to pick whatever. Do you usually try to pick boon keepsakes like Artemis' arrowhead or do you go for hermes feather from the beginning to get a good dodge chance?
stray holly
What is it with 4th aspects being abysmally slow
limber pine
Malphon is slow?
stray holly
Malphon is the exception lol
limber pine
Lucifer is slow?
reef galleon
yes
stray holly
Lucifer is ass
worn citrus
Probably a bit on the strong side, yeah
So do we not have to spoiler tag hidden aspects now?
unkempt zephyr
What is it with 4th aspects being abysmally slow
@stray holly Try press Space on 2 seconds. and press attack all time and you see its insanely fast.
stray holly
Its cool but its attack is weak, and the special is hard to land
I know you can spam attack + dash attack, but thats not what you'd pick the 4th aspect ever
vital shadow
Talos or Demeter?
stray holly
As they usually work around some unique mechanic
worn citrus
What do you guys think is the best shield aspect?
stray holly
Zeus
unkempt zephyr
What do you guys think is the best shield aspect?
@worn citrus zeus. specialy if you can take 2 duos. its becoming so insane
worn citrus
Yeah, I did get that feeling
What duos would be best?
I usually, fittingly, go zeus on it
stray holly
Zag is also decent if you prefer the regular special
unkempt zephyr
What duos would be best?
@worn citrus https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/758485427723698186/758486369537490944/unknown.png
limber pine
4th shield charged throw has some chunky numbers
worn citrus
Hey, thanks!
For 4th shield going festive fog and just nuking someone with dragon rush is my jam
limber pine
why festive fog
worn citrus
Damage
But really, I've only done it twice
Maybe another cast is better for pure damage on the rush?
limber pine
but it's stuck there, aphro/posideon/demeter drops bloodstone immedaitely
unkempt zephyr
For 4th shield going festive fog and just nuking someone with dragon rush is my jam
@worn citrus for cast damage Athena + aphro Duo. and dont forgot take back stub damage. if you lucky bonus can be near +300% to cast
worn citrus
Whoops.
That changes things. You're saying I can have near no downtime on charged rush if I pick a cast that drops stones immediately?
limber pine
you still have to wait a while for them to pop out but it's still faster than fog or blades
median oar
what are people's opinions on dark foresight vs olympian favor? i'm starting to push 16+ heat now but can't really "feel" out the difference yet
limber pine
dark foresight is better if you're aren't farming for materials
robust anchor
may sound like a broken record but depends on weapon
like when i use certain spears or bows i like hammers more than boon rarity
untold vortex
It's really hard to make a blanket "x is better than y" statement
Because there's many things to take into account. Weapon (and aspect), heat, goal of the run to name a few broad things
smoky atlas
Poseidon > all. Uncle got the best puns.
median oar
if you meant me I'm not asking for "which is better", just what people think about them, maybe specific use cases where they use them
empty veldt
Whats a good aspect/weapon to utilize a build that revolves around Dio? I wanna level his keepsake but his hangover damage aside from call seems low
median oar
I like running his Attack on fists generally or on spear (with serrated edge or the rapid attack hammer)
empty veldt
hmmmm
median oar
you do need to pom it a few times for the stacking damage to really go wild, short of picking up duo boons that make it tick faster or stack higher
or the legendary with trippy shot
empty veldt
thats what i thought
reef galleon
I took dark foresight because I don't care about materials + I maxed out God's pride so there's no need in Olympian favor
empty veldt
If i'm running Aprho art crit build (Heart Rend) I should Family Favorite as opposed to privileged status right? or is privileged status still better?
reef galleon
Artemis has "marked" which counts as a status curse, according to wiki
onyx folio
yeah marked + weak will give you the privileged buff
can 100% confirm
marked is a little unreliable in that it can’t activate in 1v1 scenarios
median oar
when effects say "After using Call" does it apply immediately after you press the button or after the Call effect has ended? E.g. if I get the one to gain dodge chance and I use a Call that makes me impervious is it just wasted
onyx folio
and you need to have crit in your build already for it to drop
unkempt zephyr
Whats a good aspect/weapon to utilize a build that revolves around Dio? I wanna level his keepsake but his hangover damage aside from call seems low
@empty veldt Try dio+Artemis +Aphro. Duo artemis +dio give crit chance.Aphro can increase stucking and give another debuff. and Dio damage for me all about Peer Pressure and Bad Influence.
empty veldt
@unkempt zephyr ah well, i wanted to do something that revolves around his hangover, cause crit build’s already my most used build so
@unkempt zephyr and for crit i prefer using Aphro Art and Athena together already, leaving not much space for Dio
unkempt zephyr
@unkempt zephyr ah well, i wanted to do something that revolves around his hangover, cause crit build’s already my most used build so
@empty veldt i talk about hangover.Peer Pressure and Bad Influence.Mush have if you wana damage from it. and with artemis duo hangover start crits.
empty veldt
ah ok ok
unkempt zephyr
ah ok ok
@empty veldt or if you wana more add athena dash to it. (Dio +Artemis+Athena)and create a second duo artemis+athena. with this all :all attacks have 27.5% chance to crit. hangover too. and Peer Pressure and Bad Influence increase damage and stuck up on all enemy. To good boss damage need Legendary Dio.
unique vigil
what keepsakes do you guys prefer for the bow? I'm trying out distant memory at the moment
robust anchor
that ones kinda overrated but which aspect
just go for the gods keepsakes
and later aconr
empty veldt
Usually almost always god keepsakes to tighten the build
unkempt zephyr
what keepsakes do you guys prefer for the bow? I'm trying out distant memory at the moment
@unique vigil if you new player take Sisyphus keepsake in begining.Its help alote befor you find some thing. or choose god for build if you dont wana random build.
untold quiver
@unique vigil I tend to take keepsakes to help with builds early (specific gods, coin purse) and then depending on the weapon, switch over to Spearpoint or acorn for the last area (or last two if the champs are really giving you you trouble)
Acorn is better than Spearpoint provided you are only taking a couple of hits, or takin.them in early close succession
unique vigil
Makes sense, I'm using aspect of chiron btw. I usually use pierced butterfly but I've been testing out other keepsakes. It would probably be better to use the god keepsakes for more consistency at the start.
unkempt zephyr
Makes sense, I'm using aspect of chiron btw. I usually use pierced butterfly but I've been testing out other keepsakes. It would probably be better to use the god keepsakes for more consistency at the start.
@unique vigil iIf you wana YOUR build take god what you need and Fated Persuasion in mirror.TO you can reroll and take what you need from god. like speacial what you need to Hiron aspect.
rare kayak
the final boss just did me dirty yeesh
3 lasers in 4 attacks
one of them without cover
jerk
turbid needle
f
unkempt zephyr
any cheat mode to give myself 100 gold?
@rocky trail Realy you ask about cheats in official disord in Build category?What wrong with you man?
rocky trail
i have no shame about cheating a timesink
lament creek
there's no need to be aggressive
rocky trail
i can easily beat the game 20 times to unlock the weapon i want
but i would rather cheat
brittle wind
Is antos really only doing 1500*2 damage??
unique vigil
just play the game lmao
limber pine
Just learn how to use Google
unkempt zephyr
i can easily beat the game 20 times to unlock the weapon i want
@rocky trail Then do it. game not about grind. its more about storys and builds.
reef galleon
@rocky trail there are mods, I think the whole Hades mod community has a discord so I suggest trying to find it. I know of a specific mod that changes the value of unlocking weapon aspects.
@unkempt zephyr it may not be about grind, but it has grind in it
unique vigil
cheating in items seems kinda weird, what's the point of playing a roguelike if you don't want to grind lol
reef galleon
@unique vigil Wouldn't playing a roguelike in itself be a point?
rocky trail
i jsut wanna make builds 🙂
untold quiver
So.....my favorite build for Chiron bow is Curse of Longing, Heartbreak Strike, Curse of Pain, Dire Misfortune....taking the Ares and Aphrodite keepsakes along with boon choice rerolls helps me assure that I'm setup, even if I don't get the duo it's still a very strong build, for me anyway
unique vigil
but the point of the game is that you keep playing and dying over and over
reef galleon
Yes
unique vigil
that's how you experience the story and all the characters
not by cheating in items
reef galleon
Where does the grind come in?
rocky trail
i mean
its a clever storyline tool that ure immortal so u can keep dying over and over
but if i want to play with a certain aspect i need to grind the game X times to get it
unique vigil
the game is pretty generous with titan blood
brittle wind
I don't do grind... and I already max all the weapon that I need... and I don't even finish the whole story...
so yeah no grind
unique vigil
there's achievements that give you huge amounts of titan blood
you also get 2 every run
and you can get more from the trader
unkempt zephyr
I don't do grind... and I already max all the weapon that I need... and I don't even finish the whole story...
@brittle wind ++++
rocky trail
thats fine! i never care about story stuff 😛 skip all the dialog
unkempt zephyr
there's achievements that give you huge amounts of titan blood
@unique vigil ++++
reef galleon
All that you need, but not all of them. That's the point.
Fated list doesn't provide enough blood to account for all aspects.
unique vigil
it's really not hard, I don't see the point cheating in titan blood when you get so much from playing the game
unkempt zephyr
there's achievements that give you huge amounts of titan blood
@unique vigil Near 80-100 if change all abmrosia to titan blood
brittle wind
lol really... just stop already...
It's like telling a thief not to steal because it's bad...
errant narwhal
@rocky trail, this question and discussion is better suited for the modding discord which you can find here #self-promotion message
limber pine
then just go find a 100% savefile somewhere
unique vigil
if the game is too easy for you then you can play on higher heat?
leaden belfry
okay time to start a new hades run, maybe my zeus build will work this time and i will finally beat the game
i feel so bad, 48 attempts, not a single win yet
rocky trail
yes stealth but then the runs are slower and i dont get more rewards
i think thats my main argument
unique vigil
idk do whatever you want
untold quiver
What weapon are you running @leaden belfry ?
unique vigil
I just think that's pretty cringe
rocky trail
and if i die on last boss i need to do another run with 0 reward
leaden belfry
@untold quiver used to spear but now gun
unique vigil
I thought the game was too easy, why would you die on the last boss
leaden belfry
dude its my first rogue like also ehh it isnt really that easy
unkempt zephyr
you think not carying about dialog in a roguelike is cringe?
@rocky trail Its game about story.like other game of Supergigant. rogue like its just second part.
reef galleon
several people are typing
untold quiver
Zeus builds on the rail are pretty solid, if you like the way Zues focused builds are the fists are also very nice for that
rocky trail
@leaden belfry hes not talking to you
reef galleon
Its game about story.like other game of Supergigant. rogue like its just second part.
@unkempt zephyr for you
rocky trail
@leaden belfry dont worry just keep trying and experimenting with new weapons
unique vigil
lol
unique vigil
I use eris
unkempt zephyr
Eris or hestia?
@onyx parcel Eris
unique vigil
lucifer is also pretty fun when you unlock it
unkempt zephyr
The extra damage seems so weak
@onyx parcel Its extra damage for all sourses. ALL.
robust geyser
Question: how does post-change Chaos shield compare to a) itself from earlier and b) the new effect of Zagreus shield?
solid cairn
wait what does zag shield do now lol
robust geyser
Flat damage for attack and dash attack.
I think it's 15 at level 5?
Which might be good depending on how its calculated.
solid cairn
ah like that one thing they gave to the zag spear that they immediately reverted
robust geyser
In other words - whether percentage bonuses apply to it.
reef galleon
@robust geyser Before you could just use special after charge regardless of where you are or what side of the arena you're facing, and they flew all over the place hitting all enemies in the arena. Now the chaos shield special launches shields in a cone shape, which means you have to aim it to hit something. There may be more more intricate changes to it, but this is the main one.
robust geyser
Ah, thank you.
solid cairn
funny that people used to think the spread pattern was a nerf
robust geyser
That's good to know, I was unsure what the exact changes were.
Was it not a nerf then?
I... would find it odd for Chaos shield to get any buffs, given how incredible it was.
robust geyser
I see experiences are divided.
solid cairn
I liked the very spread out shots more
I mean I watched one of haelian's vids and the chat seemed to really dislike chaos shield in 1.0
hearty elbow
I think we're arguing in the same direction
solid cairn
oh lol
hearty elbow
@solid cairn We're in agreement it's a nerf. Your phrasing made it seem like the general consensus is that it was a buff now
hearty elbow
Or the Splitting Bolt "what room?" build
stoic thicket
The spread pattern is one thing, the fact that only the primary shield bounces kinda sucks.
hearty elbow
It was range, spread, and ricochet. So yeah, they all hurt.
But now you can shotgun? 
unique vigil
barren otter
awesome
it's a shame the victory title was Swimming in Cash though, cause I had hoarding slash and went with it
unkempt pagoda
Aspect of ||Demeter|| has an inconsistent behavior with the Flying Cutter hammer upgrade when you have the multi-hit uppercut charged
Sometimes it would release the multi-uppercut first, and only then start charging, effectively wasting it
While sometimes it would charge it as you'd expect
@stray holly this might be because you're accidentally doing a Dash Upper instead of a Special
hearty elbow
Slightly off topic to that why does Malphon have sooo many Special hammers lol.
untold quiver
Eris rail is like......the "Party Cannon" tippy strike, heartbreak flourish, low tolerance...everybody gets a bad hangover lol
slender scarab
in general is it better to get a few boons for each of your attacks and abilities or to focus on just a couple?
hearty elbow
Focus
solid cairn
ledger that actually makes ||gilgamesh|| indirectly worse
hearty elbow
The counter-argument is that getting a boon in each slot makes it easier to get tier 2 boons in the future. But it doesn't mean you should look to improve them all
stray holly
In other new, I've officially moved from Talos to Demeter
Former is good for regular encounter, latter good for elites/bosses
solid cairn
demeter aspect gud
hearty elbow
ledger that actually makes ||gilgamesh|| indirectly worse
@solid cairn I don't understand what you mean?
solid cairn
||gilgamesh|| doesn't really benefit from special boons, so the abundance of them isn't a good thing for it
hearty elbow
Oh, I thought you were referring to focusing on a couple of cores or whatever
unkempt zephyr
ledger that actually makes ||gilgamesh|| indirectly worse
@solid cairn Its not worse. take Green dash in mirror . damage from 2 debuffs. lear how to do 3 dash attack. Becaus aspect have bonus dashes. and take this. even with out duo and many lvls on doom. its stucks up Doom to 800-900 in second.https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/696492300947423274/760495895392288799/unknown.png
hearty elbow
Yeah the Malphon hammer spread is pretty unfortunate for all aspects lol
untold quiver
Ledger I think it's because all of the variety for Malphion comes from the special.....and my biggest complaint about 4th fists is the heavy attack doesn't also give a heavy dash attack
hearty elbow
Mine is that Maim feels like you're slapping enemies with an actual fursuit claw.
solid cairn
demeter with explosive upper is pretty epic tho
unkempt pagoda
demfists kinetic launcher is the most fun fists build, i will not be taking comments
hearty elbow
Quake Cutter, Flying Kick, and Rush Kick have always felt so... but like why are you here.
pallid veldt
might be a noob question but do people use the Fists' special at all? I find its too slow but maybe idk how to use it
hearty elbow
Not unless you have a reason. nope. You can cancel out of the actual special with Talos, and Demeter gets THICC special damage
pallid veldt
Yeah that's what I thought. It leaves you really vulnerable.
untold quiver
Flying kick is nice on Demeter, not as nice as the fireball imo but still
pallid veldt
does it get a projectile with a certain boon or something?
solid cairn
explosive upper is great
hearty elbow
Kinetic Launcher gives you 5 fireballs with Demeter proc
pallid veldt
oooo
hearty elbow
Lol, and guys, I'm not saying there aren't good special hammers, I'm saying there are a lot of uninspired -> bad special hammers
solid cairn
yeah kinda
hearty elbow
Rush Kick is like, the least noticable hammer ever
solid cairn
you mean hammers?
solid cairn
I mean.. rail
hearty elbow
Spear and Bow for sure
solid cairn
oh ye bow
pallid veldt
Bow eats
solid cairn
I used to hate bow until I used rama
pallid veldt
I think its also just got a learning curve
pallid veldt
I didn't care for rail much at the start but starting to enjoy it now
outer oar
but all the weapons have a few that really change it
like i didnt like bow much
then i got the improved power shot
felt so much better
solid cairn
rama with twin/triple shot
hearty elbow
Eris + Lightning Strike might be one of the most consistent runs for me at high heat
Somewhere up there with Rama + Heartbreak/Deadly Strike
solid cairn
sword hammers are just kinda there.... uhh double edge is great and yeah
pallid veldt
I've never tried Rama with double/triple. I bet it melts.
hearty elbow
Sword hammers are the meme-iest
outer oar
sword hammers are there to ruin your sword runs when you take a daedalus hammer in final shop
pallid veldt
anvils when I'm playing sword are spooky
outer oar
happened to me twce in a row
onyx parcel
Double edge is the best
neat cedar
my first victory was with the cursed slash
onyx parcel
I don’t wanna take hammers on sword bc I don’t like any of the rest
neat cedar
i had a better run before that one which i ruined with the hammer
onyx parcel
But I also gotta take it in hopes for a double edge
It sucks
I’m always torn between taking hammer or not
pallid veldt
it works if you have a really stacked build
onyx parcel
Explosive return is good
hearty elbow
Yeah lol, it's awkward that Nemesis' second best hammer is probably Double Nova?¿?¿
Makes sense
solid cairn
there's definitely a lot more to work with in a creative sense with bow and rail
onyx parcel
Bull rush charge faster is also good
solid cairn
world splitter used to be good but uhh not realy
onyx parcel
Yeah lol, it's awkward that Nemesis' second best hammer is probably Double Nova?¿?¿
@hearty elbow double edge and double nova are prob the only two sword hammers I’ll take
solid cairn
it's really fun to use but dash striking is better
pallid veldt
does anyone use Poseidon's aspect over Nemesis?
hearty elbow
Shield hammers used to make more sense when Chaos and Beo were so... themselves.
onyx parcel
Some speed runners do
Other than that I haven’t seen a single person that prefer Poseidon
Like, cmon. It’s crit.
Who doesn’t want crit
hearty elbow
Now it's awkward on every aspect. Zag only wants Pulverizing, Zeus wants Explosive Return, Chaos wants Sudden Rush, and Beo wants Charged Flight but still cries with a pint of ice cream thinking about what once was.
outer oar
i just dont enjoy the shield much
outer oar
dashing around chucking shield is not that fun to me
onyx parcel
Every weapon just seems mediocre after playing so much nemesis
solid cairn
Every weapon just seems mediocre after playing so much nemesis
now you're speaking my language
delicate badger
Yeah I used to be big on the shield but now it’s kinda lame
solid cairn
I feel that
onyx parcel
Legit just no IQ dash strikes
solid cairn
nova dash strike dash strike nova dash strike dash strike
hearty elbow
I acknowledge that Nemesis is good, but I also acknowledge that I am a garbage fire with it.
onyx parcel
Nemesis with the Hermes dash
solid cairn
I may do speedrunning for fun and im gonna be using nemesis even more for that lol
hearty elbow
Nemesis without extra dashes is soooo boring though
onyx parcel
Eh the damage is still good
solid cairn
I forgot how fun arthur is
outer oar
i was using guan yu and got serrated points
that weapon doesnt even need dmg mods
kinda crazy
valid locust
They need to revert chaos shield nerf.
Bring back fun.
pallid veldt
what was nerfed? Not really a shield player
hearty elbow
Lmao, I knew, as soon as I saw "TokiDoki is typing..."
valid locust
It would toss the 5 shields in a starfish formation
solid cairn
so you picked ares special and doomed every enemy in the room every time you used special
pallid veldt
oh smart
valid locust
So they would fly all over the place
onyx parcel
All the shields use to act like the main shield
hearty elbow
Starfish, +1 ricochet, near infinite rnage
solid cairn
doom the room build was a good time
onyx parcel
Just a shotgun now
pallid veldt
wow now wonder I kept hearing about it lol
hearty elbow
Lol, I will argue against that. There is very little that is less chaotic than knowing without a shadow of a doubt that every enemy in a room will be tagged by this weapon
pallid veldt
"doom the room" rofl
valid locust
Too good at high heat but meh
solid cairn
that's what it was tho
cunning urchin
Chaos Aspect always bored me to death, personally.
pallid veldt
Ik its not as good but you can "doom the room" with bow special
valid locust
It was good for once in a while
Poseidon with Crush Shot was hilariois too
And fury cast.
foggy wagon
am I supposed to hate Beowulf?
valid locust
Yes
solid cairn
remember spread shot crit
hearty elbow
It also made discourse on this channel so easy, because the second you saw someone ask about "what aspect to play, I am new pls help" you could employ your Chaos macros
limber pine
4th shield is awesome tho, you can go full charge special or burst cast builds
hearty elbow
Now we have to stick to garbage like "everything works, just find what you enjoy playing with"
Pff
solid cairn
Now we have to stick to garbage like "everything works, just find what you enjoy playing with"
Pff
lmfao
fair plinth
I find that having athena boons really skews my perception of how strong a build is... when I attempt the same build minus a divine dash or attack I either melt under fire or have much lower damage due to having to constantly dodge
solid cairn
I just say use nemesis and win at the cost of your brain rotting
unkempt pagoda
i find “everything works” to be unhelpful but... it’s true lol
robust geyser
When I say "one of the worst ones" I mean "I cannot use it for the life of me."
valid locust
It was true in blood price though
cunning urchin
It was way overrated, anyway. Strong, but very overrated. DPS was bad for high heat unless you happened to have Epic Thunder Flourish with Epic Static Discharge.
unkempt pagoda
just ask what playstyle they enjoy the most and work from there
unkempt zephyr
Hidden shield aspect is... one of the worst ones, in my experience?
@robust geyser Nope. speedruners use it. its have huge impact with cast builds.
foggy wagon
I feel like I'd rather just use Poseidon aspect... For any cast build ever?
robust geyser
To be fair, I don't think what speedrunners use and what's good for the average player are necessarily correlated all that strongly?
solid cairn
well, kind of
foggy wagon
High DPS is fun for everyone
cunning urchin
Hidden shield is easily top tier. Imo the strongest aspect in the game.
robust geyser
Huh.
hearty elbow
I'm in the Eris gang for that one
cunning urchin
Eris is up there for sure.
robust geyser
Personally I find the most sucess with hidden sword.
unkempt zephyr
Hidden shield is easily top tier. Imo the strongest aspect in the game.
@cunning urchin Strongest still artur with 5k+damage from hit and 40% damage reduction,and projectile slowing
robust geyser
It's... it's a cannon, but melee.
stoic thicket
New Eris friggin claps.
solid cairn
what did they change about it
valid locust
Gilgamesh aspect is best because you can RIP and TEAR
unkempt pagoda
eris was buffed
stoic thicket
Significant boost to the bonus damage.
unkempt pagoda
used to be 60? i think?
untold vortex
rip and tear untill it's done 
unkempt pagoda
now it's +75%
solid cairn
cluster bomb
limber pine
4th fist is so fun
reef galleon
Bosses should react to getting defeated without damaging Zag
@stray holly may I ask what exactly you mean by this?
stoic thicket
Was it already 60? I thought it was less.
robust geyser
Anyway, I don't like Eris because LOB.
valid locust
Eris is rail, right?
unkempt pagoda
eris is now the queen of lightning strike, hangover, and blade dash builds, and i love it
hearty elbow
You feel 1000 IQ though when you arrange the bomb to be in the perfect spot
valid locust
Man, that whole thing dont jive with me.
cunning urchin
@unkempt zephyr FO2 and DC are real issues for sword 4.
valid locust
I have like, 9 blood invested in rail and 40 blood saved
foggy wagon
True heavy artillery with the triple bomb hammer upgrade and trippy flare
valid locust
Just refuse to spend money on it.
stray holly
@reef galleon When you defeat a boss without taking any damage
unkempt zephyr
@unkempt zephyr FO2 and DC are real issues for sword 4.
@cunning urchin FO2 and DC?
foggy wagon
It's not my favorite but it's still better than the fists lol
outer oar
i managed to get cluster bomb and hermes +30% special
stray holly
They oughta react somehow
hearty elbow
@unkempt pagoda Rama is still kind of the king of Hnagover. Without Ricochet Eris has a lot of trouble actually spreading it around meaningfully.
outer oar
that was some heavy artillery
cunning urchin
Forced Overtime rank 2 and Damage Control.
valid locust
Fist is great, yiu take thst back.
unkempt pagoda
rama has no inherent hangover support
unkempt zephyr
Forced Overtime rank 2 and Damage Control.
@cunning urchin Realy?you cant use animation canceling?
cunning urchin
At what heat?
robust geyser
In fact, the only enemy that consistently interrupts me is the skull.
foggy wagon
Fist is the only weapon I have yet to have a good experience with
robust geyser
That's a good point, I play on 10 or lower.
hearty elbow
It has a special that applies 3 stacks for free, and leaves its main attack open to do whatever you want
foggy wagon
Guan Yu is fun on the spear, the bow and shield are just great, sword is great for cast builds, rail is fun but not very good
hearty elbow
Eris needs to actually spend its attack slot to spread Hangover, which is not exactly ideal.
cunning urchin
Yeah, for me the best aspect is the one that's most reliable for the highest heats.
pallid veldt
if you don't get something really good on rail attack it feels like you're tickling them to death
outer oar
my cluster bomb run i didnt even attack
summer rover
gotta love gilgamesh fists for poseidon dash builds, tbh
outer oar
just spammed special
summer rover
just hold space and wooooo
limber pine
you can get away with trash builds on a lot of weapons but not the railgun
pallid veldt
Fists + Pos Dash in general tbh
foggy wagon
Ahh haven't gotten hidden aspect yet
reef galleon
@stray holly Thanks. I read it that they should react to getting defeated without damaging Zag as a consequence, as if now they damage him when they react to getting defeated. 
hearty elbow
Hmm, for me I think the best aspects are the ones that lend themselves to very consistent "high heat" (but not highest heat) runs.
stray holly
hehe that would be hilarious
hearty elbow
That's mega subjective though.
valid locust
Best aspects are fun ones that keep people engaged and playing.
High heat is just one way to play
reef galleon
63 ways to play
cunning urchin
@hearty elbow so in what heat range?
valid locust
If a person does 400 no heat runs because they like one aspecr.
That aspect is bedt.
hearty elbow
32-40, before you have to take RI2 and AP2 etc.
unkempt zephyr
Yeah, for me the best aspect is the one that's most reliable for the highest heats.
@cunning urchin probably atrur for Higth heat. becaus have beast damage and surviveabylity from start. just train to animation canceling.For combo and for special and cast.
hearty elbow
Basically, being able to have consistent, unseeded runs in that range with an aspect means that the base weapon itself is just... good. E.g. at highest heat in Blood Price, Zag bow was actually quite good. Because seeded, you could get Twin Shot, Heartbreak Strike, and call it a day.
That did not reflect how that weapon felt to play in every other situation though lol
cunning urchin
Shield 4 unseeded can do a ton of work.
solid cairn
wdym by animation canceling in hades
hearty elbow
I'm not arguing that Beo isn't great. Actually, most aspects can probably streak 32 with enough experience and knowledge.
solid cairn
is that just dashing out of an animation
cunning urchin
@unkempt zephyr I'm top 3 in high heat clears. Sword 4 runs into issues at high heat.
proven osprey
Is it worth it to spam the dash strike with Nemesis Aspect ? I got a chaos boon + artemis dash
solid cairn
yes
proven osprey
But idk if I'm losing dps
hearty elbow
It's worth it only spam the dash strike. Always
solid cairn
nemesis is so good
proven osprey
oh really
robust geyser
@solid cairn sword 4 specifically can dash between attacks without interrupting the combo.
hearty elbow
Yeah, the base Stygius attack animation is so poop
untold vortex
Except when you special between spamming dash strike
outer oar
i found flurry slash pretty gud tho
hearty elbow
@robust geyser Every sword can do that... but like why would you want to with non Excal
robust geyser
Oh.
proven osprey
Yeah I must special right
robust geyser
I never noticed that on other sword aspects, my bad.
hearty elbow
Yeah I must special right
@proven osprey Yeah 😛
solid cairn
guan yu is fun, I haven't used in a while because I got burnt out from it
hearty elbow
Though also keep in mind that 3 seconds is longer than it feels like and you can also get in a pretty solid number of dash strikes without re-upping the buff
valid locust
The more you play, the less that'll happen.
unkempt zephyr
@unkempt zephyr I'm top 3 in high heat clears. Sword 4 runs into issues at high heat.
@cunning urchin mb its only for you.Im not so skilled. Im averege player. like ppl dont know how instantly do 2cast +special+2dash in lesser than second and take back cast on poseidon sword immidiatly.Even with out artemis on attack this sword can have 2K+ damage from hit.
foggy wagon
Yeah I'm still at the stage where I run into those damn traps in Elysium on the far right or far bottom of the arena
That look like they're part of the background
solid cairn
cool thing about guan yu is the different ways you can make it effective
foggy wagon
I hate them so much, I consistently lose like half my health every time I get to that exact chamber
solid cairn
you can hope and pray to get quick spin and massive spin, build around special, build around dash strike
foggy wagon
Guan Yu is also just amazing for applying status
Which is great because it needs crowd control
robust geyser
Guan Yu + high confidence + stubborn defiance.
outer oar
i dont like the special much on it
robust geyser
Note: don't actually do this.
foggy wagon
I love the special way more than the stock spear special
robust geyser
Unless you're good at the game or something. I'm not.
outer oar
its better than the stock spear special but im also not a fan of that
limber pine
I like using Demeter attack on GY
solid cairn
GY is really rewarding when you get good at it
foggy wagon
That sounds like fun, haven't rolled demeter attack with GY yet
solid cairn
it also just looks really friggin cool
limber pine
Forced Overtime? works fine?
reef galleon
yu don't get good at guan yu. Yu just get hammers for it.
solid cairn
haha yu
robust geyser
I confess that I don't see much of a difference between having and not having chill.
reef galleon
It's more chill?
solid cairn
I mean the chances of you getting serrated, charged skewer, or quick/massive spin is pretty high
unkempt pagoda
enemies are blue 👍
robust geyser
Haha
reef galleon
Guan Yu + high confidence + stubborn defiance.
@robust geyser + all revenge boons
robust geyser
Pffff
valid locust
Nourishing Soul is broken with Gilgamesh Aspect.
outer oar
guan yu with athena aid is fun
limber pine
Demeter legendary shatters even redacted at 10% so there's that
robust geyser
How so?
foggy wagon
Demeter's legendary is also cool
robust geyser
(re: nourishing soul)
foggy wagon
I didn't realize what was happening until the Hades fight and I was like "YOOOO THAT'S SICK"
proven osprey
hm
robust geyser
Speaking of which, does nourishing soul work with GY and/or cursed slash?
solid cairn
I don't think it rounds up
proven osprey
Is there a limit to the dash strikes you can perfom in a row ?
untold quiver
I think with the extra dashes 4th fist "might" be way strong for Merciful end
robust geyser
I don't think so? You can just hold square+X (or your local equivalent) and go to town.
solid cairn
that does seem like the best way to use it
proven osprey
@robust geyser when I do that, the third strike is a normal one
untold quiver
@proven osprey it will look like you keep dashing but there is an actual"break" depending on how many dash you have
untold quiver
That's why I think 4th fist merciful end can be really strong, your just basically dash striking everything with that combo anyway, do less vulnerability windows against a hard target
cunning urchin
I cleared JS3 CP2 DC2 with that in under 17 minutes, so yeah, it is strong.
Breaching Cross played a factor in that, too.
robust geyser
Fist 4 is just... busted?
cunning urchin
I honestly think it's bad unless you have ME.
robust geyser
Huh.
cunning urchin
Speaking of which, does nourishing soul work with GY and/or cursed slash?
Lifesteal is unaffected by anything else, so no, it doesn't work. But that also means those two are unaffected by Lasting Consequences.
Draining Cutter, though, is affected.
robust geyser
I want to try merciful end, but for that I need to actually get it.
Actually, that's a good segue (is that how this is spelt?) Into this question:
Dark foresight or... rare chance thing for duo boon runs?
cunning urchin
Dark Foresight.
valid locust
Talos seems pretty perfect for Merciful End
robust geyser
Thank you.
solid cairn
they made dark foresight like twice as good for some reason
valid locust
You drag people to you and apply doom, then you have athea attack
solid cairn
yeah demeter ME is one of the best speedrun strats
valid locust
Im sure it is but man, seeing high damage with demeter fists is too fun.
cunning urchin
No, you want Doom on Attack and Deflect on Dash, so you can just go to town with Dash-Strikes that immediately trigger ME.
valid locust
Special when that charged special crits.
solid cairn
you need athena attack/special for ME though
cunning urchin
Yes.
valid locust
Now you do.
cunning urchin
But you get that only to unlock ME.
solid cairn
oh so you replace it after
cunning urchin
You don't need to replace it. It just doesn't really factor in afterwards.
robust geyser
I don't think you can sell a boon you needed to get another boon?
...can you?
cunning urchin
You can sell it, yeah.
valid locust
You can sell cast boons after you get the duo boon for them just for the lols
Game offered ot up once trying to be slick
😩
robust geyser
How do keepsake choices look like for an ME build?
cunning urchin
Yeah, for cast boons like Blizzard Shot, you still need the base cast.
robust geyser
I would assume owl pendant in Tartarus, vial in Asphodel?
cunning urchin
Blood-filled Vial > Owl Pendant > whatever
robust geyser
Ah
untold quiver
I do vial first
cunning urchin
You want Curse of Agony first so that any poms can land on that, and so you do more damage immediately.
Coin Purse is a good choice in Elysium because it allows you to buy more boons or a Yarn of Ariadne, which means you have a better chance to get the Duo if you don't have it yet.
@stray holly re Flying Cutter on Demeter Aspect, that happens when you do a Dash-Upper first. Flying Cutter doesn't apply to Dash-Uppers.
So you're "wasting" your multi-hit Special on the Dash-Upper before you charge the Flying Cutter.
hearty elbow
Though starting Owl Pendant has a bit more merit than it did before since you need Flourish + Dash anyway, and you want to leave yourself open to easy DDs in Asphodel
cunning urchin
It's easily avoided when you know about it.
Yeah, it's not a bad choice either to start with the Owl Pendant.
But if you run TD at least, you can be pressed for time, so you'll definitely want the damage first.
cunning urchin
Yep.
robust geyser
Are there any easy ones in asphodel?
hearty elbow
Lol, the new TDs are so oddly designed. It feels like I have enough time to do whatever I want at whatever speed with TD2, but it feels like I have to go balls to the wall speed racer for TD3. I guess the 3 heat kind of reflects that.
cunning urchin
If you're using Stubborn Defiance (SD) and lose your SD before picking up her Last Stand or Deathless Stand, she will give you a DD.
In the next chamber, your SD will also replenish like normal.
hearty elbow
Athena DD boons are tier 1, so if you fill up your core boon slots in Tartarus, it makes it exceptionally likely to hit one of them
cunning urchin
Last Stand and Deathless Stand are tier 2 boons.
robust geyser
I don't think anyone who doesn't run obscenely high heat uses stubborn defiance, frankly?
hearty elbow
I prefer it at low heats too. It lets me play very ignorant until boss fights
robust geyser
huh
cunning urchin
Well, you're also a high-heat player lol.
robust geyser
The way I play is I try not to lose DD until the last boss, since that's the only fight I can't reliably finish.
cunning urchin
I've seen players on lower heats who very much preferred SD.
hearty elbow
You don't care about getting hit in normal encounters with SD. WIth DD, losing health = losing gold most of the time.
cunning urchin
I know SD is meta at 40+. I've no idea which would be better for low heat tbh. I run SD all the time even on sub-20, but that's just because it lets me play with LC4 and get 4 "free" Heat that way.
robust geyser
huh
cunning urchin
Even some newer players feel very comfortable in boss fights but might make a lot of "mistakes" during regular chambers that add up. So SD can be better for that.
And you can often get 1 DD + 1 SD for the final boss fight.
robust geyser
You mean from Chaos?
cunning urchin
No, from Lady Athena.
robust geyser
Huh.
cunning urchin
Where both your SD and DD are buffed to +80% because you saw Patroclus along the way. Or even to +90% if the DD you got from Lady Athena was the +10% healing one.
hearty elbow
Since you can go into bosses with higher health pools and get back a lot of health on death too
cunning urchin
Add a Touch of Styx from the Well, and you get full healing from every DD/SD.
glass ether
I don't get Gyan Yu. I got amazing build with Demeter attack and quick charge from the hammer, died from redacted when he had 1 hp left. Before that I had 11 win streak 😦 Damage is too inconsistent and because of this healing as well
solid cairn
I think im just gonna stick with DD
hearty elbow
I have not found a situation in which I do not want Divine Strike on GY
I think im just gonna stick with DD
@solid cairn Word. It's what the vast majority of players do.
Pretty sure Haelian really dislikes SD too but uses it for the LC4 "bonus" heat
Though he hasn't been pushing heat in 1.0 yet
cunning urchin
I always go with Heartbreak Flourish on spear 4.
- Divine Dash + Zeus' Aid + Smoldering Air.
chrome geyser
I should do more smoldering air runs
cunning urchin
Somehow 99% of the builds I recommend have Smoldering Air.
solid cairn
I need to like actually experiment with things in this game
robust geyser
Oh yeah
chrome geyser
usually i try to keep my call clear for the new trinket in the last biome; cause ||Hades|| has a lot of funny things to say when you greater call
robust geyser
I am reminded why it may not be the best idea to take a god keepsake in Elysium.
solid cairn
my highest heat is currenly 17 and I could probably go higher but I've been busy doing other things
unique vigil
Tbh I like aspect of achilles more than guan yu
robust geyser
Because you're going to get a choice between a hammer and a boon.
chrome geyser
also what's the opinion on ||sigil of darkness||?
magic dagger
the boon still shows up later if you take the hammer @robust geyser
unique vigil
I liked it for the novelty initially but I don’t really use it anymore
robust geyser
Really? that's interesting.
cunning urchin
The hammer will also probably show up again if you take the boon, to be honest.
magic dagger
until you accept a boon from your keepsake god, they will keep offering you boons
robust geyser
It did. In the next chamber. 👀
chrome geyser
there is a pinned message from couple months ago that explains it
robust geyser
(the hammer, that is)
chrome geyser
but basically; the game tries its best to give you two hammers (
limber pine
is that from Redacted? I hear good things about it since the damage increase is huge
chrome geyser
(you can't reach two hammers before elysium)
and give you two hermes boons
yeah it is. Really? The damage increase i find lackluster
but the good part is the invulnerability
cunning urchin
Once you reach Elysium, it's like every exit is a hammer until you pick it up lol.
solid cairn
you have to try to not get 2
chrome geyser
its like athena/ares/poseidon aid
limber pine
it's good for bursting down bosses I guess
robust geyser
Oh, of course the game refuses to give me any duo boons for... 6 or so valid attempts before giving me two at once.
hearty elbow
Parting Shot is usually soft Approval Process 1 for me once I accept the contract of having Aphro and Athena in my god pool simultaneously.
simple badge
What the boons I should be aiming for when using the fist?
limber pine
Ares Attack + Athena Special and Dash + Merciful End seems to be great
chrome geyser
anything is good really
unkempt pagoda
zeus attack
vague ledge
what's the recommended build for 4th shield aspect?
chrome geyser
and first run?
proven osprey
I had an incredible dash strike build but I could not test it on the final boss because ||scenario lmao||
chrome geyser
just play for now; you can strategize after you got the game down.
hearty elbow
Lol, that happens with a lot of people. Blue-balling the god runs
cunning urchin
@simple badge this might be helpful. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2233472883
robust geyser
Aren't all runs technically god runs, with all the boons?
hearty elbow
ba dum tss
cunning urchin
Mine are goddess runs. 
simple badge
@cunning urchin Oh ty very much!
robust geyser
Huh, it's recommending dash-strike for stygius.
cunning urchin
Yes.
magic dagger
yes
hearty elbow
Yes
robust geyser
It has probably the worst dash-strike? At least... hitting-with-it-wise.
hearty elbow
Exact opposite and you're on the money
magic dagger
you should be dash-striking with literallly every weapon, regardless of build
robust geyser
I mean, yes.
magic dagger
the sword has an excellent dash-strike
magic dagger
50% more damage than the basic attack and it's faster
robust geyser
Huh.
magic dagger
sounds pretty helpful to me
hearty elbow
With non Excal sword, you do not ever want to use the base attack animation
robust geyser
Too bad it feels wimpy.
hearty elbow
All non-Excal sword hits feel wimpy
robust geyser
I wouldn't say so.
hearty elbow
It's a steel plated pool noodle
cunning urchin
If you watch Stygius speedruns or high-heat runs, they're basically all about Dash-Strike spam.
robust geyser
But... they probably do so more than hits of other weapons.
(except the rail)
(they murdered the rail when they made it full-auto)
cunning urchin
Nemesis is nowhere near wimpy. 
hearty elbow
That's because it gets triple damage a third of the time lol
magic dagger
base sword with no upgrades isn't wimpy
cunning urchin
I thought it's wimpy and that's why you play it.
hearty elbow
It's the only weapon that can kill Dad on a fresh file!
And it gets a free Owl Pendant
robust geyser
It still looks like Zag tried to get to fencing classes and picked the wrong door.
(not that you could blame him for that, in the underworld)
magic dagger
it's a level 0 owl pendant with no rarity upgrade though 
hearty elbow
Hey, it's still Owl Pendant lol. Can only get so bad
unique vigil
I was a huge fan of nemesis until I unlocked arthur
magic dagger
speaking of which
I once got every single athena boon.
you know what I did with it?
robust geyser
Died?
magic dagger
I lost.
unique vigil
I still like nemesis but arthur is super fun to use and also hella strong
robust geyser
Yeah, that tends to happen.
hearty elbow
Out of curiosity, what actually happens when you get every boon from a god? You'd need to route to find out I'd assume
robust geyser
By the by, anybody tried Zag shield in 1.0? I'm not sure whether I should spend blood on it.
magic dagger
zag shield is good
hearty elbow
Neat
cunning urchin
Was easier to do when they had fewer boons.
magic dagger
yeah
it's a smack-your-enemies-really-hard weapon
cunning urchin
Sword 4 lets you clear low heat without looking at the screen, but I prefer Nemesis for high heat.
Also for low heat because it clears faster.
unique vigil
Nemesis is the only way I can justify doing artemis crit builds personally
artemis feels pretty bad without extra crit chance from something else
robust geyser
Naaah, Artemis is almost always at least decent.
unique vigil
I really like her dash and support arrows though
robust geyser
Ohh, Artemis dash...
unique vigil
crits are just too inconsistent
cunning urchin
She has effectively the second-highest +% damage Attack and Special.
robust geyser
It used to be the boon.
unique vigil
not as good as athena's obviously but I like it
cunning urchin
And that quickly shoots up with t2 boons etc.
simple badge
I thought ares attack was not good on fast attacking weapons. Why is it good on fist?
unique vigil
there's a stacking doom damage boon
magic dagger
artemis dash: "crit when you dash-strike"
and clean kill was a lot stronger too
unique vigil
forgot what it's called
robust geyser
Oh yeah
simple badge
Ohh
magic dagger
dire misfortune isn't necessary to make doom good on fists
unique vigil
it increases the damage of doom based on how many times you hit an enemy before it goes off
cunning urchin
Because Malphon's base damage is too low for other boons to beat the damage from Curse of Agony.
magic dagger
you really want merciful end
simple badge
I think I mess up I took the heavy knuckle hammer with ares attack. Is that bad?
cunning urchin
And you can just hit one with it, then move on to the next enemy. They all will take full Doom damage.
Nah, Heavy Knuckle is fine.
simple badge
It’s slower
unique vigil
kk
simple badge
that must be good with Artemis attack I’m guessing?
robust geyser
It lets you almost permanently deflect.
unique vigil
I'm not sure if it's good but I really like the hammer upgrade that gives you 10% damage and long range with the fists
cunning urchin
I had Curse of Agony and Heavy Knuckle for 45 Heat with Talos. You're fine with it. Should be a small DPS boost.
unique vigil
Oh you use talos?
cunning urchin
I use all of them.