whats the priority of boons and poms? I usually skip poms in favor of boons, but i see people with really high boon levels in the victory boasting now and then
#h1-builds-and-combat
wary jackal
robust anchor
hoarding adds on after all other multipliers
lament creek
I mean it depends
drifting vale
yeah sounds like that from the wording 31 thanks
lament creek
sometimes you know that the boons that are left won't help you much
drifting vale
^
sometimes you really just have a completed build and theres nothing left but to make the numbers bigger
sometimes you're lacking a boon you want and so you go for it
its all part of game knowledge and what youre going for
like I just posted a win where my highest boon was lvl 3
wary jackal
I've only had the game for about a week, so I guess it's just something i'll pick up in time once I get more familiar with the best builds
lament creek
also in area 4 there's like, a lot of levels to be gained
wary jackal
i haven't had trouble defeating the last boss, so I guess it doesn't matter too much until I get to higher heats anyways
drifting vale
also theres ways to passively gain random levels
nectors or a keepsake
also Charons shop
wary jackal
i usually save all my money for the last shop to buy the blood or diamond
stoic roost
Man, went from a 4 win streak to loosing all day. Granted I went from heat 1 to 8 because of skelly tempting me. But still lol.
lament creek
oh right, nectar gives you random level with the right contractor upgrade
stoic roost
Also been trying to use the gun but I just can't get this thing to work.
lament creek
stay back and shoot fast
alternatively spam special
I'm bad with gun because I straight up can't hit anything
tidal hawk
Gun good with eris
stoic roost
Mainly my damage. But I think that's just me trying to do weird builds lol.
drifting vale
yeah I personally find bow more accurate
lament creek
I'll literally shoot entire clip and not hit a single shot
stoic roost
Or lack there of.
tidal hawk
Gun is this
stoic roost
I hit stuff just fine, but I hit like a potato lol.
tidal hawk
main attack needs status effect
lament creek
yeah
wary jackal
I can't get a hang of the gun because I like to be more mobile
don't like standing still to use the main attack
lament creek
zeus and dionysus are best for gun upgrade
tidal hawk
Simple math
lament creek
since they scale off number of hits and not damage
stoic roost
Yeah I was trying out a hangover build last with the main fire. It was going well then I guy the hammer upgrade that turns it into basically a shotgun with six shots. Since I'm still trying to get all of those for every weapon. Instantly killed that run.
lament creek
zeus attack boon is equivalent to like 100% bonus damage at least
tidal hawk
No
Zeus attack boon is how you kill a run
instantly
Its god awfull
Never take it
lament creek
lol no
tidal hawk
Damage is always better
lol
Like epic Zeus on gun main attack does damage
cool
But I'd rather have chill
or weak
On my attack
gusty parcel
what?
wary jackal
this is with privileged status right?
gusty parcel
Zeus attack on rail is actually good. It's more damage then aphrodite.
sterile comet
Okay I have to know
Is there any particular boon that is more degenerate than Scintillating Feast?
tidal hawk
What does status do again?
sterile comet
It does so much damage and requires so little actual investment to make work.
tidal hawk
@wary jackal
wary jackal
having two status effects on an enemy deals more damage
sterile comet
Like, you just throw out your Spell three times in the same spot for a quick 600 damage and then 3 times the DPS.
drifting vale
I feel like all the cast duos are like that
tidal hawk
Status effects are just really good on gun main attack
You dont want to have your special doing a status on gun
you want damage
like artemis
Crit bombs are godlike
brisk cairn
so in reference to zeus attack on gun https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5s0ev_xKSp8&ab_channel=babloization (this has last boss and EM4 spoilers)
its a 48 heat run that uses zeus attack on gun
zeus attack on gun is great
brisk cairn
by all means
lament creek
why would you want status on gun
sterile comet
Yeah, I guess that it just feels overwhelmingly degenerate because of the way that Dionysus' fog stuns
gusty parcel
So go family fortune then. You can easily get 25% on that which is good because zeus as a % is way higher.
sterile comet
So you just like, plop down a death field and kill everyone.
wary jackal
how mapped out is the game's meta?
sterile comet
Interactive gameplay :^)
tidal hawk
I FORGOT ABOUT JOLTED
lament creek
do you just hit one bullet then special
brisk cairn
@wary jackal 1.0 changed a lot so the high level players are still figuring it out
tidal hawk
Yeah that makes more sense
brisk cairn
a few things that used to be weak are now quite strong
Bow in general is massively improved
tidal hawk
why would you want status on gun
@lament creek Really easy to stack effects because gun shoots fast
gusty parcel
Plus it's a rougelike, so meta gaming is somewhat limited.
brisk cairn
the old busted weapon Chaos shield is no longer nearly as good
stoic roost
Recently had a run with Zeus Ageis, Zeus special and Ares cast with wider range. Then Aphrodite call with the dup boon that makes it self fill but only to 25%. Was able to charm lock any boss in a blender of spinning.
brisk cairn
Kam there are definitely meta builds on the various weapons
becomes more relevant at higher heat or in speedrunning
general play you can make nearly anything work
tidal hawk
Then again I'm no gun expert
gusty parcel
Yeah there's optimal starts based on seed, but unless you're seed mapping, there's a limit to how much meta gaming you can do.
brisk cairn
the extent of a build is usually 'you want X god on dash and Y god on attack/special/cast'
outside of specifics like merciful end
wary jackal
my highest heat is currently 4, can't imagine heat 32
lament creek
you can cheese 32 by getting zeus shield and standing in a corner like a coward
dry ember
just don't take TD
dry ember
rama bow is good
lament creek
tight deadline on 32 heat kills you
dry ember
if you want to do 32
tidal hawk
LET ME JUST TAKE TIGHT SECURITY AND DIE TO TRAPS
dry ember
or Zag bow
dry ember
idk, don't like it it
tidal hawk
Casts bow is fun
dry ember
it can be done
tidal hawk
How I beat ||EM4 today||
dry ember
nice!
lament creek
LET ME JUST TAKE TIGHT SECURITY AND DIE TO TRAPS
@tidal hawk
just don't walk into them :^)
final scaffold
how hard is each EM?
tidal hawk
||EM1 is a joke, EM2 can be hard, EM3 is a big step up, and EM4 is wtf|| @final scaffold
lament creek
eh
gusty parcel
||EM 1 is pretty easy. EM 2 is annoying. EM 3 is hard the first time then pretty easy. EM 4 is still busting my balls.||
tidal hawk
@gusty parcel Mark spoilers please
gusty parcel
Ah right, my bad
tidal hawk
Wel
well
I'd love to stay and talk about how I use the worst bow in the game
But I need sleep
then I can hades all of tomorrow
easy
solid cairn
Zag
dry ember
that's a quite brave statement
dry ember
kek indeed
tidal hawk
How is hera bad for you though?
If I may ask
I feel like athena and artemis allow you to delete the game with Hera bow
lament creek
damage on bosses can be underwhelming
lament creek
what's your cast
tidal hawk
I had 3 athena casts
with Stygian soul
So I didnt have to pick them up
and exit wounds
lol
probably just god run
lament creek
exit wounds works with stygian huh
lyric bloom
yeah it does because it still inflicts the stone effect
tepid ridge
Stygian and exit wounds is underrated imo
Not optimal, mind you
But more viable than people think
tidal hawk
Chaos gave me 2 extra casts first floor
lyric bloom
oh I don't dobut the power of stygian exit wounds
tidal hawk
so I had 3 casts with stygian soul for the whole game
lyric bloom
I got like 8 stones inside asterius my last run
*I did have +2 stones with stygian though
fair plinth
question about boons like second wind, which gives you dodge/movespeed/damage etc after using call
how does it interact with calls like psoeidon/ares
tidal hawk
when call ends you probably get it
fair plinth
do the dodge buff starts when you cast call, or when the effect ends
lament creek
I'm not so sure about it
turbid needle
I think it's when you activate the Call.
fair plinth
the wording says "After using Call"
tidal hawk
I feel like with high damage casts like athena its pretty good
fair plinth
sooo
unkempt pagoda
the buff activates when you press the call button
tidal hawk
and delete enemies
lament creek
yeah if you get high damage casts it's great
tidal hawk
is it just play style then?
I dont want to do 32 heat with a "bad" aspect
Im eventually gonna tackle it with the bow
turbid needle
Every Aspect has been used to clear 32 Heat.
tidal hawk
So its possible?
mighty ermine
extremely
unkempt pagoda
for chiron i build demeter so i can go for arctic blast
turbid needle
Very.
unkempt pagoda
the dream is concentrated volley and relentless volley
unkempt pagoda
excal's playstyle is hitting like a truck
lyric bloom
well the aura can sorta negate it to some extent I think
lyric bloom
I play excalibur for stupid damage more than aura
mighty ermine
it's fine for low heat
solid cairn
With the buffed zag sword, no aspect is bad
lyric bloom
though, I haven't upgraded it
tidal hawk
Ok
mighty ermine
but once you climb heat you will find that trying to tank hits carelessly even with excal will get you killed
tidal hawk
So artemis and excal are good?
crit sword?
maybe athena on special
or weak on special
solid cairn
The artemis aphro duo
tidal hawk
AH
turbid needle
Artemis/Aphrodite Duo, crits deal +50% base damage to Weak enemies.
unkempt pagoda
or you can go athena on special to fish for deadly reversal
wary jackal
Is there a list of builds somewhere? I’ve just been trying whatever feels best to me with little planning
hearty elbow
Nope, you're doing it right
thorn jolt
what are some iconic builds to try out for demeter fists
thorn jolt
just fun, meme-y, or just straight busted
solid cairn
Umm... Artemis special
thorn jolt
I tried doing Arty flourish and Rocket Fist and that was awesome
solid cairn
Explosive upper
final fox
Zeus+Artemis is always good with fists, lighting on attack, artemis on special, and support fire for even more flat damage every time you punch
thorn jolt
yeah zeus fists are amazing, I love it when you get the legendary and then it just's zapping time
thorn jolt
demeter attack on the fists? with arctic blast or just the attack
thorn jolt
oh yeah I was asking about that
austere axle
whats better, lightning strike or heartbreak strike on gauntlets?
solid cairn
Depends
austere axle
heartbreak is rare and lightning is normal
thorn jolt
lightning is great for room clear, heart break is solid DPS on the boss
austere axle
ah
solid cairn
On Demeter aspect, heartbreak is a Debuff and counts for heart rend
austere axle
I have demeter
solid cairn
Zeus is just flat damage
unkempt pagoda
zeus is always good on fast type weapons like fists
austere axle
Aight thanks
steady lintel
Okay so I have the 2 blood and 3 blood upgrades on my bow and I've gotten at least like 4 or 5 boons from Artemis and it still isn't giving me any cue for the 4th aspect. What am I doing wrong??
hasty oracle
Hey which boons are good for the Arthur aspect?
unkempt pagoda
deadly strike
steady lintel
does it just take a while before it happens or something?
little swift
Any strat for the gun? That’s my lowest heat weapon
hasty oracle
deadly strike
@unkempt pagoda For Arthur?
unkempt pagoda
yep!
from there you can either go heartbreak flourish to fish for heart rend (more crit damage) or divine flourish to fish for deadly reversal (more crit chance)
fair plinth
doing an exagryph run, havent cleared hades yet
room 1 athena boon, should I go divine dash or divine attack?
unkempt pagoda
dash
fair plinth
i figured exagryph's rapid attacks might do better with divine attack
unkempt pagoda
there are better attacks out there and dash is easier to deflect with
fair plinth
u right
hazy slate
divine dash is like, top tier i think
fair plinth
got zeus attack 2 rooms after
normal quality but good enough
hopefully i get some good combos
unkempt pagoda
this seems like a lightning phalanx build in the making
oblique forge
smoky atlas
question about merciful end
does athena attack proc doom on its own or do you need to apply doom then hit the target a second time
untold vortex
It would be absurdly strong if deflect also applied doom
smoky atlas
yea i can see why
mighty ermine
chiron with doom special can still have a niche advantage of working well with dire misfortune
at least
dry ember
trying to shoehorn dire misfortune to make a suboptimal build mediocre, I like it
untold vortex
I do find ME on chiron fun, not the best build but fun nonetheless
unkempt pagoda
what is doom if not a suboptimal ability 
thick raptor
It can get pretty nice.
lyric bloom
the highest dps option, from what I hear
dry ember
also aggy, was high heat being moved down under victory boasting intentional?
lyric bloom
I don't personally like doom much but I can't deny what I've seen it do
dry ember
it trips me off
unkempt pagoda
i heard from peach that it was
solid cairn
Doom is good on things you don’t use very often
untold vortex
No idea Fox
solid cairn
So basically each time you use it you get doom
dry ember
okie, thanks anyway!
untold vortex
And then there's fists with ME where doom is incredible :3
dry ember
I remember when people were up in arms to buff Ares
imagine they heard that ME got nerfed in 1.0 xD
dry ember
I like Demeter on Attack if I can get Artic Blast
mighty ermine
i think the current 1.0 any heat speed WR is demeter with ME lol
hasty oracle
@unkempt pagoda Thanks! I'll try that.
mighty ermine
ME is still just that busted
dry ember
imagine your dash does Doom damage
mighty ermine
strips doom's biggest downside
unkempt pagoda
divine dash, mostly
dry ember
that essentially what ME on speedrun boils down to
unkempt pagoda
dash strike applies both the doom component and the divine component at the same time
untold vortex
And before 1.0 ME could easily be online in Tartarus
unkempt pagoda
your base dash strike damage basically becomes whatever doom damage you have + 40
untold vortex
It's still possible, just a bit harder now
solid cairn
Speaking of which, can divine dash expose with the boon
final fox
yes
mighty ermine
impending doom also is just auto pick with ME
solid cairn
Which one is that
mighty ermine
huge extra doom damage boost with no downside because of ME
dry ember
dire misfortune is a bit of for ME though
untold vortex
Doom damage boost but longer proc time
solid cairn
I don’t know what these things do from memory lol
mighty ermine
adds +% doom damage but each doom application takes 0.5s longer
untold vortex
Dire misfortune, you can stack doom
dry ember
you will memorize them if you invest enough hour 😄
solid cairn
Oh that’s what I thought
dry ember
although somtimes I am not sure Curse of Pain/Agony which one is which
solid cairn
I’ve played since welcome to hell, then took a long break
dry ember
Pain = Attack
Agony = Special
mighty ermine
other way around
solid cairn
Around the nighty night update I stopped playing
dry ember
other way around
you kidding
mighty ermine
no
solid cairn
But I’m getting back into it
mighty ermine
lol
untold vortex
A for attack, P for sPecial
solid cairn
Curse of sain
dry ember
FoxHope is confused.
FoxHope takes damage from confusion.
unkempt pagoda
oh, while i have all of your ears, can y'all take a look at something i put together
dry ember
no
solid cairn
bro give me my ears back
unkempt pagoda
: (
mighty ermine
👀 👂
dry ember
one ear
mighty ermine
onyx took one of them
dry ember
we all van Gogh on this blessed day
unkempt pagoda
i rated each possible olympian trio by how synergistic they are, and i'd like y'all to review it:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1U4Gc4bDDQR3Jc0_vvRq1RsvUN-Xm85y90hmww91e3_k/edit?usp=sharing
i only did a real quick overview, so if there's any synergies i'm missing i'd like to know
for example, ares/aphro/athena is actively anti-synergistic due to ME and CoL being bleh together
dry ember
it takes a moment to read decipher that properly
mighty ermine
is aphro/ares/demeter anti-synergistic because in this trio demeter doesn't really do much to work with both at once?
because i can't think of any obvious clash like with ME and CoL
unkempt pagoda
aphro/ares/dem is anti because both aphro/dem and ares/dem are two different cast duos
(cold embrace and freezing vortex)
mighty ermine
i'm gonna be honest i forgot the ares/dem duo existed
i'm sorry
that makes sense
dry ember
is it freezing votex?
unkempt pagoda
no, don't worry, i wish i could forget it existed too
actually, from doing this i realized that dem/pos/zeus hasn't been too explored yet bc of the hype over dem/dio/zeus
lyric bloom
how the heck does rail 4 work because sometimes the bombs just randomly explode when I'm not even aiming at them
unkempt pagoda
they also explode when enemies attack them
woeful saffron
it does explode if a mob hits it i believe
lyric bloom
ah okay
unkempt pagoda
also an idea: ares/pos/zeus, since you're getting into melee anyways with curse of drowning, you're likely to set off your vengeful mood procs too (does sea storm work with CoD?)
mighty ermine
i actually had that exact thought when i was thinking of why you marked that trio as blue
also no idea on sea storm with CoD, since the effective knockback is removed but it might still like... exist for purposes like sea storm
woeful saffron
im trying beowulf again. whats a recommended base god
dry ember
Daedelus
unkempt pagoda
i admit that i did each of these on a case-by-case basis, so if there's some inconsistency in rating, oops
beowulf is best with charged flight hammer; if you want to play as intended, i'd go aphro cast
mighty ermine
ares/artemis/poseidon being marked as anti-synergistic is making me hmm mainly because mirage shot hunting blades is great
woeful saffron
would stygian soul be the way to go with beowulf?
dry ember
I would say so yeah
unkempt pagoda
ares/poseidon's curse of drowning would disagree 
dry ember
Stygian is the +3 right?
woeful saffron
no thats infernal
unkempt pagoda
i went into this with the thought that anti-synergy doesn't mean that it's bad
mighty ermine
yeah, i know CoD can still happen but i don't think it makes the trio bad
mighty ermine
because on the flipside a very good synergy can occur
static jacinth
Do not go Stygian soul with Beowolf.
dry ember
then go infernal on Beowulf
unkempt pagoda
it's just you can't have all of what you want
dry ember
my gold fish brain has indeed failed me again.
unkempt pagoda
there are two very good synergies here, but the fact is that you still have to choose
static jacinth
The only 'cast' weapon I'd consider Stygian with is Poseidon sword.
And that's only if you're going for Trippy Shot/Crystal Beam/Slicing Blade.
smoky atlas
nvm im tripping
mighty ermine
i guess i just see it as, if a trio of gods can provide a unique duo combination that no other trio can provide because it's unique to those three specifically, i wouldn't mark them entirely as anti-synergistic
unkempt pagoda
though, i'm willing to switch the colors since you do make a good point
mighty ermine
potentially anti-synergistic definitely, but not as an overarching judgement like it is here, i think
unkempt pagoda
hmm, should i add a fourth color for this? "choice between two good synergies"
dry ember
just put Duo Conflict or something
mighty ermine
maybe, yeah, because turning that yellow feels like it doesn't explain itself as clearly as most others do
multiple synergies that are anti-synergistic with each other
livid comet
wat
unkempt pagoda
there are a surprising amount of those lol
now the question is what color should it be 
mighty ermine
purple maybe
dry ember
I like pink
mighty ermine
also thematic because something something synergistic and not
unkempt pagoda
purple vs. pink, the ultimate conflict
mighty ermine
the compromise: magenta
smoky atlas
rating is purely based on duo boons?
dry ember
interesting way to spell violet
mighty ermine
isn't violet just the actual real name of purple
the latter of which was made up by crayola
lyric bloom
I have +40% attack speed on aspect of lucifer
unkempt pagoda
violet vs. magenta, the ultimate ultimate conflict
lyric bloom
I chew through the 20 ammo so absurdly fast wow
unkempt pagoda
rating is purely based on duo boons?
yes
i'm sure there's more hidden somewhere in the actual boon trees themselves but that will be saved for the deep analysis
mighty ermine
oh yeah i feel like doing this outside of duo boons would be laborious and take ages potentially
lyric bloom
it took seconds to go through lernie's health wow this is stupid
I just need support fire to really break the game
unkempt pagoda
also why i limited it to trios only
mighty ermine
the 1.0 trailer: "a million billion boon combinations wow!"
which truly means: spend inordinate amounts of time mapping out the effectiveness of everything
smoky atlas
why is artermis and poseidon not considered synergistic
its pretty nice for cast or am i missing something
unkempt pagoda
the most anti-synergistic thing here has to be ares/artemis/demeter, holy heck
mighty ermine
yeah for real
unkempt pagoda
why is artermis and poseidon not considered synergistic
this is based on trios of gods, you're probably reading the table wrong (which, tbf, can be a little hard to read)
lyric bloom
question
unkempt pagoda
you have the first god on top, divided by the secondary gods, which are divided their tertiary gods
lyric bloom
is infinite ammo on the ||igneus eden|| an upgrade dps-wise or a downgrade when I've got +40% attack speed
unkempt pagoda
upgrade, if you can sit still
lyric bloom
my other options are triple bomb and triple beam
considering triple beam beacuse I can only assume it will liquify people at point blank
mighty ermine
triple beam on L is... hard to make use of effectively
livid comet
why are we discussing colours?
mighty ermine
it can't shotgun like that really
unkempt pagoda
triple bomb makes the special worth using as your main attack
mighty ermine
which is unfortunate
unkempt pagoda
why are we discussing colours?
see the google sheets link above
lyric bloom
took triple bomb, I have another bomb upgrade rn anyway
dry ember
why are we discussing colours?
to flex on the color blinds, of course
smoky atlas
oh yea i missed the gigantic bar above the table for primary gods
lyric bloom
I immediately got support fire]
unkempt pagoda
LMAO
lyric bloom
now I wish I got infinite ammo tbh
livid comet
not gonna lie, I honestly feel like Athena/aph/Artemis are the most desirable gods on any run
especially on high heat
unkempt pagoda
to flex on the color blinds, of course
ironic since i chose these colors specifically to not mess over colorblind people
mighty ermine
shout out to aphro/athena/ares being one of the few anti-syn that isn't a result of separate cast duo morphs
which is a lot
unkempt pagoda
there's a lot of cast duos
mighty ermine
ME and CoL want to do the opposite thing
lyric bloom
is there a proc cap on support fire? I feel like it's not casting nearly as many shots as it should be
livid comet
CoL being?
lyric bloom
Ik there is on on zeus bolts
mighty ermine
curse of longing
unkempt pagoda
curse of longing
mighty ermine
constant low level doom ticks on weak enemies
livid comet
I even got that the other day; how'd I forget
unkempt pagoda
huh, i only found two purples (because of mirage shot possibilities) hiding amongst the reds
dry ember
how is your ng run going?
unkempt pagoda
should i go over yellows?
woeful saffron
ELI5 parting shot? I'm reading the description but its not getting into me
unkempt pagoda
parting shot gives casts the ability to backstab, and you get a general backstab bonus as well
livid comet
I've gotten much better with the sword handling
woeful saffron
ah
unkempt pagoda
shadow presence only affects attack and special
mighty ermine
though to be fair all backstab sources say only attack and special, other than shadow slash which is attack only
livid comet
oop I did actually send it
unkempt pagoda
getting pincered by two or dashing into it twice?
dry ember
dashing into it twice
unkempt pagoda
oh that's awful
void fjord
F
vocal thunder
And mind you I cleared it (yay) but since that ||nets you the true ending||...
I don't have a record of my build. XD
unkempt pagoda
christ, ares/aphro/athena is the only anti-synergy to not be born out of differing cast duos
void fjord
for me i got lucky with the ending
no dd, trash build, low health
fully expected to die
didnt
luckily
vocal thunder
I had the Rail.
Eris Aspect.
Got a Chaos boon that boosted my special.
Got a hammer to get the special to fire 3 times.
Got a few Zeus boons for my normal attack.
void fjord
pissed though cause i bought poms from charon instead of getting the titan blood
void fjord
ez run bois
final fox
I'm still mildly in shock that Eris Rail got buffed
unkempt pagoda
friendship with hestia is over, now eris is my best friend
final fox
I think it's overpowered now
woeful saffron
can you have more than one duo?
void fjord
yes
woeful saffron
k so im just unlucky lol
void fjord
yep
but make sure your duos are compatible with eachother
cause some dont work together so the game dosent provide them
woeful saffron
i currently have athena/aphro duo but i was trying to get dion/aphro for low tolerance
void fjord
ah then its just bad luck
lol
try the mirror talent that gives you a better chance for legendaries and duos
dry ember
^
livid comet
Sometimes he does it on his own, other times he has to run to theseus
and there's no warning
so if you're next to him, gg
dry ember
maybe make a practice save just for that file?
it's better than rerunning the entire thing just to die there again
woeful saffron
shockwave? you mean his charge?
dry ember
EM3 has shockwaves
dry ember
also between Theseus and Asterius there is a shockwave also?
I think that's new for 1.0
unique vigil
I can get a hammer upgrade that gives me 50% crit on special recovery, will that still work with the achilles aspect raging rush thing?
void fjord
cause i still am not confident enough to do EM3 ont the save file i have rn
i think so, not sure
try it
small stirrup
Do it
halcyon monolith
I need a good player thats preferably on twitch that wants to make a few easy bucks playing this game
void fjord
really?
small stirrup
Yes
void fjord
i ahve never noticed lol
livid comet
yeah, asterius runs into Theseus and generates a Redacted-style shockwave
void fjord
thats EM3 rite?
small stirrup
No thats in normal as well
unkempt pagoda
nope, it's base
unique vigil
void fjord
have never seen that ig
livid comet
w o t
void fjord
killed them really fast ig
void fjord
khikhikhi
dry ember
Aqua ❤️
livid comet
useless goddess.
void fjord
is useless
livid comet
would definitely be the Zeus of Hades if she was in it
livid comet
hmmm, is Zeus still worst god?
dry ember
never has been
void fjord
no one is the worst god
livid comet
nani
turbid needle
Poseidon
void fjord
just one or the other god has bad compatibilty with each weapon or aspect
@turbid needle he is not
turbid needle
All of them are good and viable as your main in their own right.
unique vigil
zeus feels pretty underwhelming for me
good for clearing groups but kinda meh for bosses
livid comet
okay, so there's Athena, Artemis and Aphrodite, and then there's the rest
turbid needle
Zeus is best on weapons that have very high attack rates.
dry ember
God ranking:
5. You
4. Can't
3. Rank
2. Gods
- Artemis
untold vortex
I'm pretty sure you missed aphrodite 
void fjord
yes they did
unique vigil
livid comet
whoopz
stray holly
> Aphro is top
You wish :)
livid comet
*Athena, Artemis, Aphrodite, Hermes and then there's the rest
stray holly
Demeter has the air of a hyper racist grandma about her
livid comet
*truth
stray holly
This evil ancient being
dry ember
Agree, Demeter has a klanma vibe ngl
unkempt pagoda
i will not disagree
stray holly
Genociding those filthy humans comes with getting your daughter napped huh
livid comet
Demeter isn't evil, she's just the epitome of Olympian vindictiveness
stray holly
Epitome of being an absolute twat
livid comet
All of the others can be just as bad
void fjord
i mean she not doin it on purpose
livid comet
you just don't see their bad sides
stray holly
True
void fjord
she sad and pissed so it affects the seasons
unkempt pagoda
okay, but who else has as good call lines as demeter? absolutely no one
turbid needle
No, she is absolutely doing it on purpose.
livid comet
Like Athena high-key treats the realm of Hades like it's a ghetto or slum or something
unkempt pagoda
she's absolutely doing it on purpose lol
unkempt pagoda
she's sad and she's knowingly killing all the mortals on earth too
dry ember
Are is also vibin, just differently
unkempt pagoda
athena is nice on the outside but you found out how arrogant and snobby she is via duo convos
stray holly
Dio don't care as long as there's wine
Wine for the wine god
median oar
I just came here to have a good time a good time I say and I'm just feeling so attacked right now, Zag
turbid needle
@stray holly Grapes for the grape throne?
unkempt pagoda
unique vigil
beowulf is the shield hidden aspect right?
woeful saffron
yea
unique vigil
I got that recently, I think I'll try it out once I have some more titan blood
livid comet
tfw no one cares about ||Gilgamesh||
woeful saffron
i do
woeful saffron
i did a full glass canon build before
unkempt pagoda
i’m glad tatz likes gil, i know they were concerned that it was gonna be too much like other 4ths
smoky atlas
asterius is such a chad
unique vigil
I think gilgamesh is the one that I just unlocked in this run
mighty ermine
oh yeah, it's genuinely nice to see love for it amidst all the complaints
smoky atlas
i charmed him and he 1 shotted the chariot
mighty ermine
while, i understand a lot of those complaints, it gets a little much sometimes
dense star
I've had fun with Gilgamesh & Ruthless Reflex
mighty ermine
yes
unkempt pagoda
tbf, all the other 4ths have had months of time to get polished and tweaked
mighty ermine
true, i can see maim especially getting changed to feel better down the line at some point
dense star
If anything to me atm, the issue with Gilgamesh fists is that they have to compete with Demeter (& Talos) aspects, like those are very good
robust anchor
yes
hushed ledge
I like Gil, but there's a lot of jank with how buffering stuff works (let us buffer upper the same way we can buffer attack)
robust anchor
but deme is better where it counts
median oar
I'm looking for something that feels as good to use as sword 4
dense star
I know folk like the Talos fists, but yeah, I like the Demeter fists
unique vigil
yeah demeter feels pretty strong
robust anchor
bosses are harder than normal encounters ofc
median oar
is there some other weapon or aspect that feels similar
robust anchor
yes try any other hidden aspect besides rail
all very chunky heavy weapons
if u like big damage hestia rail and nemesis sword also do big damage
median oar
spear 4 have the same kick to it?
dense star
...maybe Hades spear fits the archetype of 'big damage' better
robust anchor
its chunky but you arent tanky
dense star
I don't know for sure
fair plinth
quick question - does infernal trove units give gold on death?
unique vigil
I'm using the achilles spear rn and it feels pretty good
hushed ledge
Spear 4 is actually more ranged poke than chunky committal hits tbh
fair plinth
just checking to decide if doing this trove is worth it
robust anchor
whats uour build for ach spear
median oar
yeah I like the slow, super long commitment but huge damage payoff thing
and the projectile defense for free and then extra health for free
robust anchor
for the first part hestia rail fulfills it
hushed ledge
GY heals are basically extra free health
robust anchor
for the second, any shield offers extra defense
median oar
shield 4?
hushed ledge
But you're basically asking "is there anything that is exactly ka", which there isn't because that would be boring to have two aspects so similar
Shield block is nuts yeah
median oar
I mean take it down to just big attack hits because there's a lot of weapons in the archetype of small and frequent/multi hits and nothing else I've tried with just reliable big cleaving slaps
unique vigil
@robust anchor using it for the first time so I'm kinda using random stuff but I'll send you a screenshot if you want
hushed ledge
Bow 4th is big chunky hits if you build it that way
robust anchor
ok thanks
dry ember
Bow 4th made 48 heat today by Tail
hushed ledge
Yeah I saw, impressive run
inland meadow
does middle management affect adds spawned in extreme measures 4?
dry ember
no
dry ember
yes
unique vigil
that's crazy
inland meadow
good good
hushed ledge
Aww did they remove the MM interaction with the FB adds lol
dry ember
not really?
hushed ledge
No more non-em4 teleporting butterfly balls?
dry ember
hmm didn't see anything tp butterfly without EM4 recently, and yes, I often have MM on
hushed ledge
Cool
potent ember
which is better for hestia rail - explosive fire or ricochet fire
brittle vault
yikes, lucifer was my worst run since... picking up this game probably
it doesnt break projectiles
if you fire into a mass switching between targets resets the damage ramp up
if enemies are moving fast you can't ramp up damage either
and the special has really small aoe
and you need to hit to even have it explode
mighty ermine
@potent ember both are pretty good for hestia but i would say ricochet because hestia's weakpoint is larger crowds
piercing helps with that too, in a different way
sick pelican
I have a noob question, how does aspect of hestia work with delta chamber? can you still reload? and is it a reasonable upgrade?
dry ember
you can reload
no, most of the time Delta Chamber does nothing
on Hestia or other aspects
sick pelican
thank you!
turbid needle
Delta Chamber got a big buff in 1.0, I recommend trying it again at least once.
dry ember
technically I did, but it was with Hestia so I suppose that didn't count. I still maintain it does nothing for Hestia though
magic brook
You know what I just realized that there isn't a hammer wep
magic brook
true but you know what I mean haha
mighty ermine
yeah lol
lyric bloom
I think sword 4 sort of fits a hammer's traditional purpose in games
Slow heavy hitting weapon
magic brook
I just want a giant 2 hand hammer
dry ember
I want an axe
dry ember
With a charged leap attack
mighty ermine
so playable asterius
lyric bloom
there's probably a combo of hammer stuff that can make that for a sword but yeah actual axe would be p cool
magic brook
Does Rama work single target?
mighty ermine
yes, very well in fact
lyric bloom
sounds like achilles spear with some spin modifiers
mighty ermine
shared suffering applies the extra damage even to single targets
magic brook
hmm interesting
mighty ermine
so you want to special everything before attacking ideally
magic brook
havent messed with it
lyric bloom
actually an extended spin ability for the spear would be really cool I think
like the great spin attack from zelda
dry ember
Now I just think of rama as ranged hades spear
lyric bloom
zag spins for a long time (and can move while doing so) but gets stunned briefly at the end
dry ember
Special to debuff
magic brook
yeah
mighty ermine
lol true
dry ember
Then you go ham with dash attack
mighty ermine
you discovered the true reason why i did 48 EM4 with it today
dry ember
Lol
hollow bison
Having trouble deciding on a cast for my cast build. Any suggestions other than artemis, I dont really enjoy her low crit
valid locust
New lightning rod with artemis legendary is nuts.
@hollow bison are you using poseidon?
hollow bison
Yessir
mighty ermine
yeah, crush shot works well, and honestly so does true shot, phalanx shot, etc.
hollow bison
Right on, ill take her for a spin 
valid locust
If you get flurry shot from hermes, its even funnier
oblique tusk
huh, honestly, i don't love aphro on pos sword
i prefer art or athena
especially art, because all of her support boons are phenomenal for it
valid locust
Not really sure how to answer that
oblique tusk
anyway, anybody got advice for shield builds?
valid locust
Im sad you dont like smacking buttcheeks with love shotguns for 250 damage
oblique tusk
i've never liked the shield
valid locust
Zeus shield with athena boon. Projectiles cant touch you
oblique tusk
that means investing in zeus shield :v
i guess shield in general is hungry for blood, though
valid locust
You dont have too
Zeus shield is funky to play, but I love how weird it is
It can do hella damage with aphros boon
potent ember
fun shield build is sea storm chaos aspect
tidal edge
finally finished up my projects so I can get back to this game 
something I was wondering: when I do two dashes back-to-back, am I invulnerable during the entire duration? or are there dropped i-frames between the two dashes?
hard kelp
what're good boons for fists?
smoky atlas
so far i have not been caught between dashes
as long as you dash in quick succession, and not attack
hollow bison
My god, aphroditw cast with flurry shot is indeed hilarious
hard kelp
i plan on using talos aspect to farm for hidden aspect
hollow bison
Beat hades first time with sword
hard kelp
but i would like to know whats good with fists
hollow bison
Good suggestiomz ty
hollow bison
Demeter attack for the chill, aphrodite for the weak. Easy uptime on 40% from talents. Plus arctic blast
I main fists
untold vortex
for fists
ares, zeus or athena on attack
hollow bison
Support fire from athena
untold vortex
aphrodite ain't the best on fists
hollow bison
Er arty*
Why not?
Both gilga and demeter have big hitting specials
Aphro has big multiplier
ebon tinsel
Cuz you'll get more dps from zeus on attack
smoky atlas
yea take zeus for quick attack
hollow bison
I just started playing but my logic got me my first hades kill
smoky atlas
though tbh i always dash strike spam with fist
untold vortex
because of fists fast attack which you take more advantage of with ares, zeus or athena (sans 4th aspect)
anything is truely viable at 0 heat tbh
ebon tinsel
High multipliers can be decent on demeter special but for attack you want Zeus or something along those lines
ebon tinsel
It's relatively low damage tho isn't it?
smoky atlas
poseidon/zeus/ares/athena all work for dash spam
untold vortex
if you're going pure attack for fists
-all in zeus
-athena attack, hunters dash, deadly reversal
-ares attack, athena special and dash, merciful end
those work incredibly well
ebon tinsel
No mention of support fire?
untold vortex
that's just a baseline
untold vortex
support fire is amazing on all 3 of those options (because it's incredible on aspects 1 - 3 of fists)
ebon tinsel
Ares attack with stacking doom? Why athena tho
dark quail
What's a solid exagryph build?
untold vortex
it's a dash strike build mostly (hence hunters dash and deadly reversal)
hunters dash also gets you easy access to support fire
smoky atlas
btw i wish i knew how lightning reflexes works sooner
thought the timing must be super precise...
tawny rain
can you force somehow boons going into Heroic? I have seen some victory pics with em and I wonder if there's a method for it
smoky atlas
turns out you can just spam dashes through a sea of projectiles and things will die off screen
tawny rain
nah, lightning reflexes spams for some reason, dunno if it is intended but it is certainly an amazing boon
untold vortex
what aspect @dark quail if any
smoky atlas
@tawny rain you can force heroic boons with eurydices and demeter rare crops
kinda luck based though
or swap a purple boon with another gods boon for the same slot
ebon tinsel
Does anyone know the actual amount of zeus special procs you get off of Chiron bow special
smoky atlas
a sad amount is what it is
ebon tinsel
Is it more than one xD
untold vortex
more than 1 but less than 7 because internal cooldown (I don't know the actual amount)
ebon tinsel
Well even at 2 the dps increase is better than aphro on special isn't it
smoky atlas
its usually 2 from personal observation
ebon tinsel
What is usually built on it anyway?
smoky atlas
assuming the overhead numbers are correct
untold vortex
if you're putting aphro on chiron I would go aphro attack, artemis special into heart rend
(I don't know if this is optimal)
tawny rain
oh so kind of like, start with a god keepsake, pray for Epic, go light on boons and pray for Eurydice?
smoky atlas
yea, or pray to demeter
tawny rain
oh right the rare crop one too
ebon tinsel
Hmmm i kinda feel like zeus on chiron is underrated
tawny rain
yea I got kinda lucky on boon swaps sometimes but it is so unexpected
untold vortex
it's okay, the internal cooldown on the lightning bolts holds it back quite a bit though sadly
smoky atlas
which gods special is good for chiron
ebon tinsel
Like I get it feels bad cuz we expect like 7 lightning procs but two is still higher dps than most alternatives?
ebon tinsel
Ig dio might actually have higher dps
untold vortex
curse of longing on chiron seems pretty good also (ares x dio iirc)
ebon tinsel
Looking at everything at rank one and level one dio gets you 50dmg a second, how often can you special cuz 2 zeus procs is 60 damage
untold vortex
curse of nausia my b
tawny rain
sorry if this seems kind of ignorant, but isnt rama straight up a better chiron bow?
ebon tinsel
They are quite different
oblique tusk
honestly, chiron feels great with anything
ebon tinsel
I'm no pro or anything but I have decent experience w both and they are quite different in playstyle, I can't say for sure which has higher dps (probably rama) but rama is slower and makes you play kinda differently ig cuz you can stack shared suffering
oblique tusk
dio, demeter for stacks
athena attack/ares special if you get the right combination of boons
their duo and the doom-stacks one
smoky atlas
rama is a gun. it can be a shotgun or an smg depending on which hammer you get, but both builds are good
tawny rain
yeah it is just that I had a run with that +shots on special with rama, set demeter and everything melted away with the shared suffering barrage
oblique tusk
if you get a special boost hammer, you can just go aphro or smth
chiron just feels great with everything that isn't zeus
ebon tinsel
Can you proc ME(ares athena duo) fast enough w bow?
oblique tusk
yeah, if you go dire misfortune and impending doom
if you're lucky enough to get both
ebon tinsel
Ig it would work
oblique tusk
you just alternate between that and athena attack
ebon tinsel
So what actually feels good with zeus special XD
ebon tinsel
Rip, I feel the same way but I like it a lot thematically
oblique tusk
zeus attack is nice on gun and feels ok on zag sword
but zeus special just kinda sucks
ebon tinsel
Zeus attack is great
oblique tusk
since it's on special use, and not special hit
if zeus special wasn't just...a complete nonbo with chiron
or like
on zeus shield :v
if zeus boons were actually good on zeus shield, that'd be nice
ebon tinsel
It's still decent dps comparatively with only the two procs but yeah it feels bad and the duos and higher tier boons are ehhhh
hard kelp
what is good on zeus shield?
ebon tinsel
Zeus shield is great with ares and athena for duo boon
tawny rain
people usually don't use that one as far as I know.... I remember in early there was some talk about using it, but the usual choice tends to be Chaos
i was one of those that used it and tried to build stacks, it was fine enough
untold vortex
zeus aspect got buffed in 1.0
hollow bison
How do make bow work, its so weird
untold vortex
I don't know how to shield in general though
ebon tinsel
I've heard people say its more skill intensive so that could be why, as I said tho ares athena is great dps on zeus
tawny rain
guess I shouldve looked up that a bit more then
hollow bison
I dont jave enough blood so base
oblique tusk
i also don't know how to use the shield lmao
last run
i went chaos shield
aphro special, got 2 separate chaos boons that boosted special damage
like level 5 aphro special
ebon tinsel
Does the zeus pos duo boon have an internal timer?
tawny rain
the shield that wrecks everything right now it is last aspect
untold vortex
ahh, the pinned message here on 'newbie' builds might help you @hollow bison it provides a base for base weapon builds
tawny rain
that cast explosion is extremely strong
oblique tusk
oh, i still need to get gun and shield aspect 4
hollow bison
Oh, hell yeah. Ty so much
untold vortex
no worries ^_^
oblique tusk
i've heard ||lucifer|| aspect is kinda ass?
tawny rain
I keep fidgeting with gun 4 and I am a bit "eeeeh" with it
it did clear me the 20 heat barrier, but it is more unwieldy than the others XD
tawny rain
mines are fun but the laser not being able to clear shots through not even with pierce is a really weird decision
hollow bison
Okay newbie builds are uh..too noobie for me
hollow bison
Special bow seems way better than dash attack
untold vortex
they're both equally viable I think
shotgunning the special seems more fun (imo) anyways
hollow bison
Thats how I play it
untold vortex
ahh aphro attack, arti special into heart rend
hollow bison
Done deal, ty was about to ask
tidal edge
any good poseidon boons for zag bow?
bronze sorrel
if you take sea storm for a poseidon special, does the thunder cooldown apply?
hollow bison
Last question I promise, what build for shield? Zues special demeter attack is what i came up with but didn't go far