To ruin it for myself
#h1-builds-and-combat
tidal hawk
limber pine
I do more tunnels if I need the money for Titan Blood :/
cunning urchin
Unless you really want that extra bounty from the shop and just need one more tunnel.
1:37 for the Hydra is very doable.
bronze geyser
Or if you have a ridiculous build and want that sweet 25 hp
cunning urchin
If you have a ridiculous build, you don't need it.
chrome geyser
@turbid halo the game offers you 4 out of 8 olympian boons
cunning urchin
Did you take TD3?
tidal hawk
Bruh I took TD1 and its still too hard
I just cant kill things fast
Hera bow too slow I guess
dry ember
even with the new changes?
chrome geyser
unless you force extra using trinkets; or go to the final biome without having locked in 4 gods
dry ember
maybe your build isn't optimized?
chrome geyser
(outside of hermes and chaos)
turbid needle
fasest shield throw which aspect?
cunning urchin
May I recommend Poseidon Aspect + Infernal Soul + Pointed Arrowhead to get True Shot to beat TD?
lament creek
Doing more tunnels is practically never worth it.
@cunning urchin
sometimes you have good room clears but you're bad against bosses
then tunnels are risk free and can boost you up considerably depending on what you get
dry ember
can I put pictures here
you need external link such as imgur
turbid halo
Thanks, that's helpful
tidal hawk
I cant do screenshot?
turbid halo
No way to force it to lock to 3?
tidal hawk
let me just try
turbid needle
fastest shield throw which aspect?
chrome geyser
TD? The donald?
dry ember
upload to imgur then past link here should do the trick 😄
cunning urchin
That's the build that was recommended to me to beat TD the first time, and it worked like a charm.
Helped me get the feel for how to play to beat TD.
turbid needle
which aspect for shield nets the fastest shield throw special?
chrome geyser
Tight deadline lol.
dry ember
yeah the donald ruins everything, even Hades
tidal hawk
Ok so basically
I just have
Hera
True shot
and some extra damage on primary attack
All I really have
dry ember
may I recommend the classic ice wine build? trippy shot on cast, frost strike on attack, look for ice wine.
chrome geyser
I like Hera with festive fog. Works better
dry ember
or just trippy shot is good is enough, really
cunning urchin
Hmm. Go for Phalanx Shot on Hera. That's what bablo said works best.
chrome geyser
hera and ice wine sucks.
tidal hawk
I'm not so bad I cant beat td regularly
its the fact its 20 heat is what is killing me
Jury summons is actually screwing me
chrome geyser
There is a huge delay in activationg as opposed to the flare version of festive fog
cunning urchin
Ah.
turbid halo
Oh
chrome geyser
I saw that. Why is phalanx shot so good though?
dry ember
but more damage and general utilities from slow
cunning urchin
Don't pick JS and CP then. There's your problem. 
turbid halo
Take off calisthenics program probably?
Like Jury Summons is fine
Especially if you use an AOE cast like fog
tidal hawk
Don't pick JS and CP then. There's your problem.
@cunning urchin ok buddy
turbid halo
But extra HP will really mess you up
tidal hawk
Dude
turbid halo
My 32 heat clear didn't take CP
cunning urchin
I don't pick JS CP or DC at all on bow.
chrome geyser
I did an epic phalanx shot poseidon run; and did not feel super powerful
dry ember
bruh
chrome geyser
and lost to ||redacted epic||
dry ember
you picked most of the antithesis pacts to TD
cunning urchin
lol
dry ember
and wonder why you can't do TD
tidal hawk
20 heat has been pretty chill
TD tho
HMMMMMMMMMM
ok
new plan
die next floor
do 20 again
this time
no TD
cunning urchin
Yeah, pact synergy matters even at lower heats.
chrome geyser
I do TD to turn off the 40 seconds rooms; and get more than instead. Yeah; the bonus health and extra enemies are not nice; nor do they make the game more entertaining
dry ember
https://imgur.com/Vh5SZyb new tier list. thoughts?
tidal hawk
oK
magic dagger
zag shield is good
tidal hawk
how is secret sword aspect B
chrome geyser
Put lucifer on S
cunning urchin
Lucifer is decidedly not S.
jade rover
I'd stick chiron higher too
chrome geyser
WHAT?
solid sigil
So when do i gain the ability to use ambrosia for things?
chrome geyser
Lucifer is amazing. Very powerful
dry ember
luci isn't even listed on S what you mean?
magic dagger
that is an awful tier list tbh
trying to make a noob aspect tier list is an exercise in futility
pallid veldt
Did they nerf the Zag aspect on the sword? Was it always 15% bonus?
magic dagger
So when do i gain the ability to use ambrosia for things?
@solid sigil when you've pushed your relationships with npcs far enough. just save it for now
dry ember
they buffed Zag Sword
cunning urchin
Talos is better than Zag Aspect.
tidal hawk
IMA LOSE MY 21 STREAK
solid sigil
Oh so do i have to give them just a bunch of nectar first then?
thorn jolt
@dry ember can you post the tierlist you used :3
magic dagger
the chaos nerf is also a big deal
turbid needle
which aspect for shield nets the fastest shield throw special?
cunning urchin
How is Guan Yu higher than Hades? 
chrome geyser
I enjoy playing with hestia; but power wise I think eris is stronger against enemies you cannot one shot
cunning urchin
This tier list is just bad. Sorry.
cunning urchin
No, it's just yours.
magic dagger
This tier list is just bad. Sorry.
you can't make a good tier list for noob aspects
cunning urchin
It's not a new player tier list. It's a new tier list lol.
magic dagger
what is noob aspects?
exactly
cunning urchin
No one said it was a tier list for new players.
dry ember
it's my experience around 32 heat for streak
cunning urchin
So tier list for 32 Heat specifically?
dry ember
with charged flight nerf I can't see beo being above A tier
thorn jolt
wait there's a fist aspect missing @dry ember
cunning urchin
Talos ought to be higher than Zag Aspect in any case.
Beowulf doesn't need broken Charged Flight, honestly. It's S tier either way.
dry ember
yeah, i don't have the png for the new one though
i need to wait for the wiki to update
analog sail
Is talos actually worth? It's the only aspect I haven't tried on fists
dry ember
Talos ought to be higher than Zag Aspect in any case.
15% dodge is good while the pull seems gimmicky
silk anvil
It wasnt gimmicky when witches would fly off into the lava @dry ember
cunning urchin
It's not gimmicky, though. Dodge is eeeh whatever.
It's 20% Dodge, and it works out as +25HP at the start of a run and maybe +50 at the end of a run. That's not much.
The pull and debuff is way superior.
silk anvil
What's the playstyle of Beowulf?@cunning urchin I was under the impression it was just Heras bow 2.0
dry ember
it used to be Charged Flight and special spam
torpid wren
Talos is an awesome crowd control weapon.. don't see too much talking about it though
dry ember
Charged Flight got nerf, which is partly due to beowulf itself i bet
magic dagger
charged shot does make beo into fat hera
cunning urchin
I wasn't doing just Special spam anymore well before 1.0. That was just early on for my first couple runs, basically.
chrome geyser
Charged shot beowulf works?
dry ember
It's 20% Dodge, and it works out as +25HP at the start of a run and maybe +50 at the end of a run. That's not much.
I don't think this math gives dodge a fair assessment.
cunning urchin
It's accurate, though.
dry ember
your total dodge damage over the entire run should be a lot more than +50
dry ember
not to mention the edge case when you dodge at say 1hp
dodge also saves you from buying health
silk anvil
What about further stacking 🐶 chance?
snow furnace
if you're considering extremes, then there's a chance you dodge nothing the whole run
chrome geyser
Did they fix animation frames from FO2?
tidal hawk
I have TD3 EM3 F02
silk anvil
Like with Hermes feather
tidal hawk
what now
chrome geyser
Last i did FO2 was before blood prince update
cunning urchin
100/.8 is 125 effective HP at the start of a run. That is how it works out.
chrome geyser
I toned it down to FO1 to get used to using a controller; and I might turn it on again when I play this weekend
torpid wren
I want to "like" Lucifer. but I feel like to make use of it, I'd need to take off aim assist after getting use to having it for 100 hours of gameplay
magic dagger
honestly you probably want TD2 not TD3
chrome geyser
aim assist allows you to keep on enemies as you dash
fervent canyon
I find luci clunky because the special feels too slow, you prob have to set them up before each fight
tidal hawk
TD3 2 hard?
turbid halo
you also have to consider that dodge increases effective healing
magic dagger
add BP and MM for extra fun
silk anvil
Also, what is "charged flight" I never use shield so I cant for the life of me remember (nor can I find it on the internets)
dry ember
you charge your special for 400% 200% damage
analog sail
That math isn't really accurate since enemies usually deal more than 1 hp at a time
dry ember
beowulf has a really high base special damage
cunning urchin
Only spamming Special wasn't working at all when I was working on 56. Loading your casts with Infernal Soul and using Dragon Rush for big AOE damage is very important for beating TD even when you have only 1 ammo because of RI3, and that was very doable at 56. So, without RI, Dragon Rush can do way more work even.
torpid wren
I get the benefits of aim assist. it's just aim assist does not consider Luci's orbs to be a target
cunning urchin
I just never uploaded those attempts, and then school started anyway.
dry ember
high bas damage x high % increase = chunky damage
chrome geyser
I want to "like" Lucifer. but I feel like to make use of it, I'd need to take off aim assist after getting use to having it for 100 hours of gameplay
@torpid wren I used to hate lucifer; but then realized dashes both keep you on enemies on aim assist; and does not break the ramping. The damage is insane. Attack is the interesting part. I use the special just to apply status
cunning urchin
So people just saw us spamming Special in the few 50+ runs we did lol.
fallen mirage
It's impossible to assign dodge a good value, since it relies heavily on whether:
- you get hit at all (no hits == no dodge, more hits == more dodge)
- what you get hit by (dodge a skull vs dodge a spin)
chrome geyser
but triple shot and whatnot makes lucifer special really good too
tidal hawk
ok I am at 20 heat again
This time
I didnt pick extra HP jury summons TD
Like an idiot
So I should win
dry ember
on the old patch i also tried some dragon rush build with beowulf and aprhodite
as an attempt to overcome DC2
fallen mirage
It definitely ends up being more than 25-50hp though. One dodged spin is already 40/80 depending on skull
chrome geyser
What's the opinion on beowulf and ares cast?
silk anvil
Did they rename it to Charged Throw? Because I found Charged Throw and Empowering Flight
torpid wren
@torpid wren I used to hate lucifer; but then realized dashes both keep you on enemies on aim assist; and does not break the ramping. The damage is insane. Attack is the interesting part. I use the special just to apply status
@chrome geyser Arlight. I may give it another go. Any hammers to avoid on Luci?
pallid pond
trying to go for my first clear with zeus aspect aegis, what do you guys recommend for a build? I did a lightning special + ares build and got to hades
but didnt clear
chrome geyser
Hammers to avoid? They are all good
dry ember
I think it's still called Charged Flight @silk anvil
chrome geyser
But situational
chrome geyser
let me give you a break down on what I go for; ill post a list
fallen mirage
You should avoid Eternal Chamber, it turns off ramping
sterile comet
Get Lightning on your special with Zeus aspect shield
torpid wren
I know there's one that gets rid of reload but doesn't ramp the damage... and that made Luci feel awful for me. It might have changed in later patches
silk anvil
Anyway, all the talk about numbers and such just confirms that they need to give us a simulation mode so we can get concrete answers to otherwise hard to define numbers
dry ember
Hammers to avoid?
I would suggest not picking Hazard Bomb on Eris, Chain Shot on Chiron Bow, Chain Skewer on Achilles Spear
sterile comet
The game is pretty much free
silk anvil
I think it's still called Charged Flight @silk anvil
@dry ember weird, I guess wiki needs to be updated then
potent ember
eternal chamber isnt that bad. Its very good if u have multiple dashes so u can strafe around enemies while firing
silk anvil
eternal chamber isnt that bad. Its very good if u have multiple dashes so u can strafe around enemies while firing
@potent ember
They need to change how Eternal Chamber affects Zag Aspect
If that's the one that turns it into bottomless-but-slow three shot
potent ember
yeah thats kinda a problem
untold quiver
Eternal chamber for Lucifer is good if you build into it with things like Zues attack, the double bolt, support fire
silk anvil
tfw more bullets gets turned into 3 bullets anyway
dry ember
oh and avoid Delta Chamber on basically anything
sterile comet
I would argue a practice mode would hurt the game. A lot of what makes Hades so appealing is the variability and opportunities for creativity. It's become far far easier for a discrete meta to emerge with a practice mode
thorn jolt
I think it's fine that not all hammers are good for the weapon aspect you're running
dry ember
the thing is more useless than JFK's bodyguards
thorn jolt
like Flurry Jab and Hades Spear 
potent ember
@dry ember unless u have rocket bomb
silk anvil
I would argue a practice mode would hurt the game. A lot of what makes Hades so appealing is the variability and opportunities for creativity. It's become far far easier for a discrete meta to emerge with a practice mode
@sterile comet
Games exist to be broken, they're just making it a painstaking long process to do damage calculations
sterile comet
Hard disagree but ok
dry ember
why would you pick Delta Chamber with Rocket Bomb?
when you have Triple Bomb and Cluster Bomb?
torpid wren
Honestly... I won't complain if there was a mode where you can pick your hammers before jumping into hell
potent ember
wait im thinking of the wrong one my bad
dry ember
np!
untold quiver
Honestly for a rogue.....this game really doesn't have any "garbage" randomness
potent ember
mistook delta chamber for cluster bomb
blazing wadi
best favorite call for aspect of Hera?
silk anvil
I just wanna know what would help zag survive better in a room of 800 witches launching fireballs
50% dodge chance
Vs
50% shield
Or whatever the previous discussion was about
onyx parcel
Man the sword is so bad
dry ember
Honestly for a rogue.....this game really doesn't have any "garbage" randomness
cries in Isaac
potent ember
sword is good tho
prisma raven
sword isn't bad
dry ember
if you good, sword good
magic dagger
Man the sword is so bad
@onyx parcel have you tried dodging their attacks?
potent ember
works very well with high attack speed boons like hangover/chill/crits
prisma raven
it's not my preference but i just played poseidon for the first time and it was pretty fun
onyx parcel
Sword is so clunky to use
sterile comet
The only weapon I don't care for is the Bow. It seems weak in its current state.
prisma raven
it isn't a precision weapon
dry ember
Sword is so clunky to use
Special Dashstrike Dashstrike repeat
prisma raven
or dash strike special if you're feeling spicy
torpid wren
Bow got some buffs in v1 i feel
potent ember
everyone has their own weapon preference
sterile comet
Putting dashstrikes in your combo severely lowers your dps though in a lot of cases
dry ember
yeah bow got some love
potent ember
I think hades did a good job at making every weapon viable
blazing wadi
I love the bow the most
silk anvil
@sterile comet but then you get hit!
dry ember
Putting dashstrikes in your combo severely lowers your dps though in a lot of cases
boy, this is a brave statement
lethal chasm
bow got me to last boss last night first time trying it
first time to last boss
after underrating it hard
magic dagger
boy, this is a brave statement
darn straight
sterile comet
@silk anvil Not if you're positioning well and watching tells
prisma raven
i'm dashing 24/7 anyway i may as well also be striking
thorn jolt
Putting dashstrikes in your combo severely lowers your dps though in a lot of cases
Bow with Hunter Dash would like to know your location
blazing wadi
I beat the last boss (I think lol) with the bow for the first time last night!
magic dagger
I think @sterile comet needs to watch some fresh file speedruns real quick
sterile comet
Maybe
silk anvil
@silk anvil Not if you're positioning well and watching tells
@sterile comet
The only positioning I do is constant dashing
magic dagger
also literally any bow run
barren nimbus
what would yall say is the best build for chirion bow? i need to up my game to finally beat em4/heat 16 (final boss is who always gets me)
prisma raven
kirby gets it
chrome geyser
@torpid wren here you go
- Piercing fire: Only good if you think you can't survive elysium; other than that not useful
- Triple bomb: Really really good. Can shift your dps from attack to special.
- Targeting system: Really good actually; esp coupled with triple bomb; but less useful than others so i barely pick it.
- Hazard bomb: No. You will get more caught in the explosions.
- Cluster bomb: I thought this was disabled on lucifer; apparently not. It should be amazing.
- Flash fire: The added range is insane for the final battle. This is top tier.
- Triple beam: I could not device a use for it; since you rarely want to be up close and risk your full chamber be interrupted by a stray hit. Do not recommend, but maybe good with crowd control.
- Infinity chamber: You kinda let go what makes lucifer really good; which you usually do not want; but can work if you are going for Support Fire + Zeus attack build.
With lucifer; contrary to the regular rail; the ramp damage is pretty good so Zeus is not automatically the best boon for main attack. Anything with good % increase works really well. The special; I use less for damage and more for statuses and stuff. Athena is really great; they act as deflect regions; apply exposed and it's great damage boost. Deflect couples well with triple shot. That being said; a high tier zeus update is still pretty good. You basically wanna turn on aim assist; start attacking and dash around avoiding hits; and everything melts. Throw your special around while reloading. You don't have dash strike on lucifer; but have your attack uninterrupted while dashing.
My favourite boon on attack is Artemis; it's insane damage coupled up with some chaos attack boons.
hard holly
Dash-strikes are correct on bow and Rail tho
potent ember
chiron bow just grab a ton of crits lmao
magic dagger
you should be dash-striking on every build
silk anvil
Chiron bow is fun if you wanna roleplay as a plague doctor and give people instant stacks of hangover some purple disease
dry ember
you should be dash-striking on every build
maybe except shield
hard holly
Nah even on shield
magic dagger
not exclusively, but you should be dash-striking
hard holly
Bullrush then dash strike into another bullrush
potent ember
with perfect play, pretty sure max aspect hestia rail has the highest dps in the game. in practice, tho, not rly
dry ember
depends on the shield anyway, dash strike isn't the focus
thorn jolt
Alright, so @magic dagger you aren't really Haelian right. Because he's streaming right now, and you're keeping up with this convo...
dry ember
please don't interpret what I say as never dash strike
magic dagger
no
hard holly
Its not the focus
magic dagger
I'm Lysol
untold quiver
@barren nimbus i cleared EM4 with Chiron bow going Ares on Special and it's stacking upgrades
dry ember
it's just dash strike takes second priority
hard holly
But you should usually use it
onyx parcel
Y’all, acorn or spear point?
thorn jolt
Acorn, Broken Spearpoint, Lucky tooth (for defensive)
cunning urchin
It's impossible to assign dodge a good value, since it relies heavily on . . .
Nah, I don't know where you get this idea that these things don't average out. It's not like calculating effective HP from dodge chance is a new concept unique to Hades.
magic dagger
acorn
potent ember
i always grab coin purse in elysium and hourglass in styx to carry over items to redacted fight
sterile comet
So, why are y'all in favor of dashstrikes? Am I wrong to say that for most weapons they lower your DPS?
onyx parcel
Because in practice u need to dash
hard holly
Yes
cunning urchin
You're wrong, yes.
torpid wren
oh man.. I don't know id dash strike has changed, but when I first started the game-- ALL I did was Shield dash strikes and cleared rooms without getting hit.
onyx parcel
U can’t favor dps for less dodge
chrome geyser
but weaker
dry ember
these things don't average out
I think he meant that the game may not be long enough that the average becomes the expected value.
magic dagger
but weaker
@chrome geyser hunter dash would like to know your location
dry ember
note that he also mentions whether or not you get hit
thorn jolt
if you dash well, you can get backstabs
chrome geyser
Well if you get hunter dash
untold quiver
@onyx parcel it depends on how your taking your damage, just a hit here and there acorn......oh crap I made a mistake and getting laser beamed, spear point
thorn jolt
plus if you have damage based dashes like tidal, thunder, passion, drunken, they do work
magic dagger
it's definitely more dps
chrome geyser
I use chiron anyway so attack is more for applying weak for me than anything else
magic dagger
regardless of hunter dash
chrome geyser
but on something dash strike was much weaker
silk anvil
My personal experience is that enemies tend to go down at the same rate for me whether I'm dashing or not; but regardless of how well I read enemy attacks, dashing around tends to get me hit a lot less
potent ember
bro i really just mash attack and dash occasionally and win lmao
dry ember
dashing around tends to get me hit a lot less
amazing how that works
trim gate
what is now the strongest weapon and build?
silk anvil
Maybe I'll try to slow my role a bit more and be calculating with a dash-behind, standing backstab, then dash away, but eh, ^ witty pun pretty much said it
magic dagger
but on something dash strike was much weaker
@chrome geyser secret sword. nothing else.
what is now the strongest weapon and build?
zag sword with epic dio attack and curse of nausea
onyx parcel
Dashing flight or explosive return?
dry ember
what is now the strongest weapon and build?
can you be more specific? what heat? what purpose? speedrun? challenge run?
onyx parcel
On shield?
silk anvil
zag sword with epic dio attack and curse of nausea
@magic dagger
Has Dio gotten love in recent patches?
dry ember
the overall answer to the strongest weapon and build is the one you are good at ¯_(ツ)_/¯
onyx parcel
First time heat 1 btw we’ll see how this goes
silk anvil
In the past he was my favorite but his DPS just didnt seem to be there
which is a shame because I'm a massive fan of DOT
magic dagger
epic dio attack is good on the sword, especially with one dash
always has been
curse of nausea just makes it even better.
silk anvil
When did curse of nausea come out? I swear I'd never seen it before
cunning urchin
@dry ember it averages out over many runs.
magic dagger
blood price
solid cairn
does attack damage affect dash strike damage
cunning urchin
I didn't know we'd still argue over how to calculate effective HP from evasion in 2020.
magic dagger
does attack damage affect dash strike damage
@solid cairn yes
hard holly
Yes
magic dagger
unless it's from a hammer, in which case maybe
solid cairn
also, what mirror setups do you guys run
dry ember
@dry ember it averages out over many runs.
The classic gambler fallacy.
cunning urchin
No lol.
torpid wren
how do people build Excalibur btw? I always thought it was a strong sword, but I see it rates lower than others.
cunning urchin
That's not gambler's fallacy.
hard holly
Left on anything other than backstab, dash and family favourite
Yeah that got nothing to do with gamblers fallacy
solid cairn
people run alternate dash?
hard holly
I do
silk anvil
Edited to add the "." for emphasis. Hot dang @cunning urchin
thorn jolt
@torpid wren crits, big damage buffs, survivability
deflect strike is a personal favorite, and the hammer for bonus backstab +200%
turbid halo
Gambler fallacy is "I failed 4 times so this 5th time is more likely to succeed." What Nyaa is describing is just law of large numbers
silk anvil
So, again, what's your argument against dodge chance? @cunning urchin
I mean, besides just not getting hit
I cant remember what you proferred as a replacement, though it was just in original terms of Zag Fists vs. Talos fists, wasnt it? So not so much a replacement as just a straight removal of the concept.
And what, exactly, averages over all the runs? Dodge chance? Or were you talking about something more specific when you said that?
dry ember
what she is saying is that because the average long run is X, this run must also have X average
cunning urchin
No.
dry ember
which is gamler's fallacy
next moss
tbh the number is sufficiently large to be able to say that
if you took one 5000 damage hit
then it would be gambler's fallacy
but you take 300 20 damage hits
magic dagger
the idea is that talos's effects are worth more than the dodge from zag @silk anvil
next moss
so the law applies
narrow rampart
um Nyaa I have a question! back in may you mentioned that Ares attack on fists is the highest dps. Do you know if that's still the case?
uhh sorry if im derailing the current topic
snow furnace
merciful end probably
cunning urchin
It's very close between Curse of Agony and Lightning Strike due to various factors. You'd need to parse a ton of runs to really tell the difference.
snow furnace
it's good on fists
silk anvil
the idea is that talos's effects are worth more than the dodge from zag @silk anvil
@magic dagger
I still wanna see numbers crunched on this DPS vs. survivability scale
dry ember
it's good on fists
not anymore
narrow rampart
nyaa mentioned that it's the best even without merciful end
dry ember
because it is a lot less reliable now
silk anvil
I've never been impressed with the Ares curse for single target, even when when he finally decides I've got enough goodboi points for the "stacked curse does more damage"
prisma raven
i'm playing with b||eowulf|| aspect for the first time and it's pretty fun
cunning urchin
Curse of Agony, Lightning Strike, and Heartbreak Strike are all just about tied for single-target damage on Malphon.
untold quiver
@silk anvil if you have something that can stack it fast (fists, Chiron special, lucy laser) it's effective
torpid wren
starting a Lucifer run. What's the prefered boons for it?
narrow rampart
is curse of agony still as good on fists with impending doom?
silk anvil
Really@cunning urchin ? I just like lightning because of the prospect of using it against blue-heart creeps, itty-bitty dot to take down blue hearts is pretty baller
narrow rampart
i feel like it might lose some of the DPS? idk, it makes no sense i know but... idk
silk anvil
@silk anvil if you have something that can stack it fast (fists, Chiron special, lucy laser) it's effective
@untold quiver
That's what I mean though; fists with double books stacking curse of agony still feels like a wet tissue compared to the DPS I get from other single boons
snow furnace
if you get lucky, I like support fire 👀
torpid wren
if you don't want anything crazy
@snow furnace I'm feeling crazy
narrow rampart
support fire on lucy is amazing.
untold quiver
@silk anvil - I mean, I can't say anything for or against how something feels to you so.....
tidal hawk
Dude
silk anvil
And chiron's special is absolutely random in its application of boon stacks I feel >:c that or I'm just salty that it will never allow me to thunderbolt people 7x in a row
idle oak
I have not had great luck with Poseidon aspect runs. I feel like the cast animations are too slow for how quickly they pop out from a special? How have y'all been playing it.
untold quiver
Bolts have an internal cooldown
narrow rampart
Lightning Flourish has an internal cool down of 0.3 seconds, iirc, which basically invalidates it on Aspect of Chiron
idle oak
Artemis special is t he best for Chiron bow.
untold quiver
@tidal hawk it's a Rogue, you can't lose the game, just have a bad run 😁
silk anvil
@silk anvil - I mean, I can't say anything for or against how something feels to you so.....
@untold quiver
I'll have to time how many hits you can get off with fists and compare the different boons
narrow rampart
dio special is way better
torpid wren
I had good luck with Aph special on Chiron with Pressure Points as ribbon
tidal hawk
Get 3 armored shield guys with the perk that lets them heal themselves and I have a bow
untold quiver
@idle oak I like Ares because it helps me with wave clear better
idle oak
I tried Ares last time, but I kept getting wrecked up until I got hunting blades
idle oak
The initial speed is so slow
untold quiver
@tidal hawk ouch, sounds like rogue being Rogue.....rough times man
Wait Blade rifts is a totally different thing then Doom
Unless I'm going Achilles spear I'm usually not touching blade rifts
narrow rampart
omegalul
tidal hawk
ABOUT TO DIE OVER HERE
LIGHTSPEED MINOTAUR
31 health vs Thesus
Its time
wait
If thesus becomes annoying regularly
In second phase
oh no
I dont like this
idle oak
oh @spare berry I was asking about a good cast build when using Poseidon Aspect.
narrow rampart
a good one is Artemis cast
tidal hawk
Dang I died to them
narrow rampart
just go all in with Artemis until you get her legendary
untold quiver
Oooohhh I missed that
narrow rampart
and make sure you get exit wounds
idle oak
I remember crapping my pants the first time I saw EM3 too. lmao.
untold quiver
Yeah I do straight Artimis
narrow rampart
you could also go with the posi/arty duo, but I don't go for that one that much tbh
untold quiver
true shot is great, the call is great, grab the first chaos well for an extra cast
narrow rampart
yeah do those
untold quiver
Hermes machine gun casting
narrow rampart
don't take Stygian Soul
idle oak
I tried a crystal beam run with poseidon, and it was decent
narrow rampart
p blade is amazing
untold quiver
I like making sure my damage is all going there
If I'm gonna guess at it I'm doing blades
narrow rampart
mmm if it's a cast that doesn't lodge in (like Dio or Demeter) i prefer Achilles aspect spear
it's way better, and you dont waste the dislodge passive from Posi blade
untold quiver
Achilles can be akward to get the pacing though ts not for everyone
untold quiver
Now that it's up to 4 I'm having more fun with serrated point dashing shinanigans
narrow rampart
i really wanna try that
but haven't gotten serrated point yet
gosh darn hammer rng
untold quiver
Stay near the wall and dash through him usually
turbid halo
You can't really outrun him unless you have like +2 dashes so you have to take advantage of his turn radius
turbid halo
Or near a pillar
tidal hawk
I'll just take damage
turbid halo
Theseus' giant explosions are really really slow
You can definitely outrun theseus and his explosions with just your base 2 dashes and no movement speed boons
potent ember
tip-theseus only does the gatling gun charge thing diagonally across the center of the arena
turbid halo
Even on +40% speed
tidal hawk
Last time I fought EM3
Minotaur owned me
so I'll take your word
that it can be avoided easy
the explosions that is
turbid halo
The explosions take a really really long time to land
untold quiver
You can dodge trough him using a pillar it's just harder
idle oak
yeah, realllly slow
potent ember
explosions are patterned either around arena edge or like a vague line down the center
turbid halo
Like, I think it's over twice as long as every other warning-area in the game
And It's even longer than gun special, I think
barren nimbus
which are some popular keepsake picks? i usually start with coin purse, then i spend 2 floors trying to force synergies with god keepsakes and i take either spear/tooth if im not confident on my run, or the new keepsake ||pom blossom|| if i am confident on it
untold quiver
God/God/purse/Spearpoint is my usual sometimes replace Purse with Spearpoint, some people switch acorn in for Spearpoint
Or, Lambent Plume x4
magic dagger
This might be intended because this was the case for months, but sometimes Asterius does his swing attacks without telegraphing the attack (without charging), which seems like a bug and is extremely annoying when it happens.
@quaint plume this only happens after he jumps towards you and slams the ground once after a double swing.
When he jumps at you three times, you are safe, and when he jumps once he will swing at you without a windup
turbid halo
I used to go god/purse/acorn/acorn before I got EM3 down pat, and also before I got one of the spoiler keepsakes. Now I go god/spoiler/spoiler/acorn
quaint plume
@magic dagger you mean when he jumps once without swinging, then he will swing without a windup?
magic dagger
in the first phase, yes, every time
turbid halo
My current run: have all the doom boons, have aphrodite's boons, got what feels like every single duo I'm eligible for except for curse of longing
quaint plume
so it is intended?
potent ember
yes its intended
magic dagger
in the second phase, he will sometimes jump without it being part of a swing combo. in that case, he will not do the windup-less attack
and yes, it is an intentional part of his moveset
high tangle
Christ, this was a bit depressing. Just did a shield run, got sudden rush + charged shot and divine strike.. quite much could just stand still thro all bosses and just use charged attack >.>
magic dagger
I have a small copypasta with their entire moveset if you're interested @quaint plume
high tangle
Only lost one defiance charge while just standing like that on bosses lol.
untold quiver
Why is that depressing?
high tangle
I quite much just clicked one button thro all of it
turbid halo
Do boons like the Artemis/Aphrodite duo that give +crit chance apply to all your damage, or only to sources that already have some sort of crit chance?
high tangle
Where as if use other weapons have to think and avoid things
magic dagger
it's a bit boring and slow is all
you never want to win by blocking all attacks and pressing one button
high tangle
Yeah
Like not even joking when say just spammed attack, had minotaur in my face constantly and just spun around. Same for last boss. Lol
Didnt move..
turbid halo
Shield is great
magic dagger
may I suggest aphrodite attack, dem special, and dio cast for your next shield run?
it's pretty fun, super high dps but you have to move around and do different things to use it
tidal hawk
ok welp
magic dagger
once you get ice wine you can get easy priv status too
turbid halo
I play chaos shield a lot and being able to just block through minotaur spin is so nice
turbid halo
I've always been forcing aphro for my first boon
magic dagger
explosive shot on the rail?
turbid halo
Getting one status on top of that is nearly trivial
tidal hawk
bow
untold quiver
I mean it sounds like Rogue stuff happened in a Rogue, I've had some Pblade builds thatthe boss fights were over in less than a minute
tidal hawk
I had a room
untold quiver
It happens, I think it's fun when you get a good dice roll on the range
tidal hawk
where there was 50 grab hands
turbid halo
I run Aphro special and whatever on attack, I prefer demeter but I don't force a sceond god
magic dagger
just dash-strike at melee range, don't charge it up
tidal hawk
and I lost so much time
magic dagger
it's best with aphro or arti attack
high tangle
Hm yeah, might try that. This was my first shield run too, so just felt depressing compared to how much needed to avoid/struggle to survive on others (fists mostly). Heard special shield is great fun too, so yeah might try it :o
potent ember
grabby grabby hands tho
turbid needle
|| https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/756949101442105443/758402375169081384/unknown.png ||
Decided to go Ares cast build, clearly this isn't busted in any way
magic dagger
@native wadi you get summons from certain npcs when you reach a certain point in your relationship with them
native wadi
thanks
lethal chasm
dang ive went to go ares cast a FEW times
and was like eh cant be that good
thx 😛
magic dagger
Privileged status vs family fav?
@onyx parcel use privileged status unless you are going for a build that only has one god or so
2 if you're looking for artemis
because Privileged status is a lot more damage than family favorite, but it's 100% worthless if you can't apply at least 2 status curses
dry ember
do the bow :3
onyx parcel
Literally drove a truck over redacted’s face
stiff jewel
shield is v good
dry ember
we need more bow mains
onyx parcel
I had a shield run with explosive return, aphro attack, ares special
stiff jewel
i still haven't gotten past ant with the bow lol
onyx parcel
And then the duo where doom strikes repeatedly on weak foes
And then weak foes take more damage
It was so great, my first heat 1 win
magic dagger
we need more bow mains
honestly me
anytime I'm not running sword (for obvious reasons) I'm running bow
cunning urchin
So never?
dry ember
bless
tidal hawk
Kinda scared
So I got the minotaur miniboss
so he should have less hp
Still scared
wide depot
are there any aspects worth maximizing first or just go with whatever?
mighty ermine
go with your own tastes!
cunning urchin
Whatever you like.
cunning urchin
Which means Malphon.
wide depot
lol
cunning urchin
Otherwise you're just wrong.
wide depot
but just zag malphon right?
tidal hawk
I literally cant lose
wide depot
it's pretty cheap
cunning urchin
All of them.
wide depot
s***s expensive yo
dry ember
if you want cheap and powerful
can't go wrong with Zag Aspect on most things or Hera Bow
wide depot
is Hera the one with the tracking
dry ember
no it's the cast loading one
tidal hawk
got em
wide depot
I just played rama bow and it was great
tidal hawk
EM3 second try
cunning urchin
The mods don't like when you avoid the swear filter that way. Fair warning. 
wide depot
oh right!
tidal hawk
Actually god gamer
turbid needle
|| https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/756949101442105443/758406468797071442/unknown.png ||
4k damage on ||Hades|| with Ares cast lol
cunning urchin
@tidal hawk grats grats.
wide depot
@mods plz let me say the 's' word
drifting vale
On this christian minecraft server?
dry ember
ik it's a meme but does this christian minecraft server actually exist?
dry ember
if so, can we get a Club Penguin 2.0 ban speedrun going with the server
drifting vale
Thats hilarious i would love to see that
untold quiver
@turbid needle blade rifts are definitely a thing
silk anvil
Ares cast: 
Poseidon bonus darkness:
magic dagger
the game is indeed about basically hell
silk anvil
I'd like Waterboi a little bit more if he didnt always throw his loot box boons at me first >:c I have to whittle down his boons before he starts to give me juicy stuff
lethal chasm
PG hell tho
silk anvil
the game is indeed about basically hell
@magic dagger
Hell? Nah.
This is Hades.
pseudo beacon
Hey Guys! This game is Awesome! It’s so nice, I bought it TWICE! Switch and PC. I noticed on Switch it says “cross-saves coming soon” is that cross platform with the PC? Does anyone know if that’s a thing?
drifting vale
Dont they say the s word in it
silk anvil
Hell is "basically Hades" ye mean 
anyways
Tonight I might begin the arduous task of doing the barest minimum of research into DPS calculations
untold quiver
Actually it's "Basically the afterlife" there aren't really that many similarities between the two overall
magic dagger
@pseudo beacon not yet, it's expected later this year
silk anvil
Actually it's "Basically the afterlife" there aren't really that many similarities between the two overall
@untold quiver
Valid point; Olympus is the cool-kid-God-chosen VIP club
magic dagger
october or november, I don't remember precisely
untold quiver
@silk anvil mortals didn't go to Olympus
magic dagger
oh
lament creek
good thing about hades is that there's no weird variable resistances
pseudo beacon
@magic dagger thanks for the info! That’s exciting. I’m much farther on PC and want to stick to one Save file
magic dagger
actually just says later this year
lament creek
so 20 damage is 20 damage
lament creek
and not like in dark souls where you need to solve quadratic formulas to calculate your damage against each type of enemy
magic dagger
so 20 damage is 20 damage
sure, your damage is going to be the same no matter who you're hitting, but damage calculations are a bit tricky at times
silk anvil
@silk anvil mortals didn't go to Olympus
@untold quiver yeh, like I said, cool-kid, God-chosen, VIP club.
I dont really know how many demigods actually took up the offer to go sit on then pearly gates tho
sure, your damage is going to be the same no matter who you're hitting, but damage calculations are a bit tricky at times
@magic dagger
I'm not looking forward to discerning what boons are influencing what damage
magic dagger
all "attack" boons affect your attack
untold quiver
I don't believe any of them did.....the Olympians were fated to be overthrown by their children, I don't think Zeus allowed it
silk anvil
I don't believe any of them did.....the Olympians were fated to be overthrown by their children, I don't think Zeus allowed it
@untold quiver it's hard to keep classical greek literature and modern adaptations separate in my memory.
magic dagger
for instance, the basic sword swing is 20 damage
shadow presence makes it deal + 50% damage from behind
barren nimbus
i swear if this build doesnt finally get me through heat 16 with EM4 im gonna tilt off the face of the planet. wish me luck
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/153209175328030721/758410839203381298/unknown.png
magic dagger
common aphro attack makes it deal 50% more damage, so 30
but a backstab when you have aphro attack doesn't deal 45 damage
it deals 40 because both bonuses are applied to the base value of 20
@barren nimbus good luck
may the troll rng of semi-randomized attack patterns bless you with prosperity and happiness
solid cairn
Is there anything else I should be looking for with chaos shield besides ares spec
untold quiver
@silk anvil understandable but yeah, nobody was in Olympus but the Olympians
magic dagger
crits are different than such bonuses
they just take your entire damage, once it's all added up, then multiply it by 3
heart rend, and I think clean kill, take your whole damage after the crit is applied, and use that as the base damage for their effects
silk anvil
Did the devs release these damage calculations? Or is this trial and error by other parties?
silk anvil
r/theydidthemath
prisma raven
can marked enemies take critical hits from attacks that have no critical chance
magic dagger
yep!
prisma raven
nice
silk anvil
When you say added not multiplicative, it's simply to say, for quint-damage crits "you're not gonna be hitting 20(5), you'll be hitting (20)+(205)"? In this context, isnt additive crits always better?
I'm trying to think of an instance where multiplicative > additive, if the crit multiplier is still added to the total of the original number, maybe I misunderstand
I need to stare at this a bit longer before I can say "oh I get it"
Damage = Base Damage ×
(1 + Sum of Critical Damage Bonus) ×
(1 + Sum of Regular Damage Bonuses) ×
(1 × Product of (1 - Damage Reductions))```we were talking about crit chance
deadly reversal and hunter's mark only affect chance, not damage
silk anvil
Ah yes, I see, disregard me
magic dagger
and there are no damage reductions on enemies in this game
silk anvil
That at least helps with the damage calculations to be universal
hard holly
Huh
I think my game broke a little
Isnt the first chamber in Elysium supposed to be guaranteed a gold laurel chamber
Or rather, the first 2
magic dagger
no, you can get blue rooms
magic dagger
unless both of our games are broken 🤔
prisma raven
maybe you missed a gate
magic dagger
it happens sometimes
prisma raven
the gates in elysium are usually side by side tho
magic dagger
no boon is guaranteed even if it probably seems like it should be
hammers like hiding from us
I lost one of the Peach challenges several times because I only ever got one hammer
silk anvil
It's okay, you can always reroll at the anvil
prisma raven
the anvil only shows up when you have two hammers
prisma raven
as far as i know, two hammers are supposed to be guaranteed
magic dagger
they aren't
prisma raven
then they're extremely common
magic dagger
just extremely likely
silk anvil
in this life, nothing is
I'm glad they re-specced the ||Satyr tunnels|| to be practically guaranteed 2nd room. I had so many runs where I was going on 4 or 5 before it gave me the ||puppy chow||
either it was a conscious change by them, or the gods saw fit to torment my RNG
bright flint
wait what the ||satyr sacks|| is guaranteed at 2nd room now?
hard holly
No
prisma raven
it definitely isn't
hard holly
But it appears to be weighted RNG
prisma raven
but it's very common
silk anvil
wait what the ||satyr sacks|| is guaranteed at 2nd room now?
@bright flint
nothing is guaranteed just more likely for me now
hard holly
But I couldnt find where its in the code
silk anvil
@hard holly I found it
silk anvil
Room = 5;
}
For (tunnel = 0; tunnel <= Room; tunnel++){
Do !(give ||satyr sack||)
}```Heheh. Yeah sorry, I've not tried to crack open the source code of the game or anything
hard holly
Ah
I did
I just couldnt find anything
It does feel like the RNG is weighted
But I got nothing to prove it
silk anvil
personal experience over a large sum of games
a poll of users to make ^ even more accurate
ask game devs
hard holly
I mean it definitely seems that way, because Ive had it be room 2 a disproportionate amount of the time, and it seems a fair few others have too
silk anvil
*I still remember acronyms from dark souls, but need a thesaurus for all the ones here ;~;
silk anvil
Oh yeah lmao, it's always a treat to fight non buffed lernie
lethal chasm
kirby is that actual code from game or psuedo..?
silk anvil
Hehe, actual real psuedo python java mashup
tidal hawk
I'm so mad
I had no idea you could run under the blue things
and the minotaur couldnt
Just figured that out
lethal chasm
didnt know that..
tidal hawk
And I defied twice
magic dagger
blue things.
tidal hawk
Salty
magic dagger
what blue things, exactly
lethal chasm
theres red and blue pillars
lethal chasm
dont remember being bale to do that
magic dagger
you can dash through them
lethal chasm
ah
magic dagger
you can't just run though
lethal chasm
i feel like shield is my best wep but i cant beat theseus w him lol
so bad at blocking
might as well just use gloves
tidal hawk
I was past him
lethal chasm
i never have the money for kiss
lethal chasm
i just gotta get the choreography down a lil bit
lethal chasm
i died last night to last boss w... 10% left lol
tidal hawk
more like died to [Redacted]
lethal chasm
only been to last zone 2x
lethal chasm
did it w bow which makes me wanna bow again
but i feel like it was a fluke
from volley buffs i got
very early
magic dagger
??? in elys who gives em back
@lethal chasm have you looked at his codex entry?
if not, you should.
tidal hawk
Ok real talk
I have 7 mins
for redacted
but my damage is really bad
Should I explore other hallways
for stuff
magic dagger
the time is most likely more valuable than anything you can get from the tunnels
tidal hawk
Lost last run to him
didnt even lose from time
He just
smashed my face in
I never lose to him
kinda odd for me
going in
wish me luck
hard holly
Flurry Slash or Hoarding Slash
fading fog
what gods on fist 4th aspect
hard holly
Artemis or Aphrodite on attack
I guess I havent gotten Flurry slash for the prophecies yet
hard holly
I almost died to the first boss
That has not happened in many, many runs
What the hell
unique crystal
I'm not ashamed to say that I struggle against ||Tisiphone||
hard holly
It was Alecto for me
But to be fair
I got flurry slash with Zeus refusing to give me his attack boon
Time to die on Hydra
Yeesh
The only way this run can be saved if is I find the Elysium special room
Nope, died on Hydra
Oof
silk anvil
better to die to lernie, than a cold, unfeeling, shield mook in elysium
worldly trellis
I just got the lernie voice line
hard holly
At least I got progress on my prophecy and a voidskate
worldly trellis
it actually changed the hp bar lmao
silk anvil
If I had a dime for everytime an AOE was blocked by a shield, I'd have a lot of dimes
fervent canyon
what boons do you pair with poseidon aspect other than arty? feel like her boons work best with that aspect
curious if any others would be effective
silk anvil
Did fans complain enough to bully Hades Devs into removing Poseidon's "I just wanna fish" boon?
what boons do you pair with poseidon aspect other than arty? feel like her boons work best with that aspect
@fervent canyon
Hermes, maybe, especially with his new bout of boons
fervent canyon
I mean, I guess but hermes doesn't really count lol, he's support god
silk anvil
Also, aphrodite's cast is what I used when I was doing Poseidon sword runs
magic dagger
big catch is good
silk anvil
I'd try to pom buff the cast, pom buff the "chance for any damage to be crit" from artemis, exit wounds, and get fully loaded... WHICH SHE NEVER GAVE TO ME
magic dagger
so no, the fans did not complain enough to bully the devs into removing it
fervent canyon
with aphro cast, seems like that boon that gives backstab on cast is good right
because you usually dash behind and cast
prob big damage if you set it up right
silk anvil
Good. I wanna fish but hes not popped up with Big Catch for me ever since they released it
manic ruin
Is high voltage better than Double strike for chaos shield?
silk anvil
I wasnt actually aware of backstab capabilities on cast 
but itd make sense
fervent canyon
it's the athena/aphrodite duo boon
"your cast gains any bonuses you have for striking foes from behind"
silk anvil
@manic ruin , I'd assume double-strike*
mighty ermine
double strike is better
fervent canyon
so if you got the exposed boon maybe
and then the duo
plus aphro boon
for cast
could get some big damage
silk anvil
@mighty ermine what you said, I typod
I wanna run that pos sword, aphro shotgun build now. It was excellent before, but now I bet its bonkers poggers
fervent canyon
I think the problem with poseidon sword is there's a bunch of casts that literally don't work with it
demeter ares poseidon
it kind of locks you into certain boons to get the most effect
I guess they get bonus damage but still
I think the dislodge thing is cool
wish it worked with more
silk anvil
Yeah, at that point you should just do the fabled advice of "build different" but you do lose out on the dislodge damage
though theres some sick nasty combos that I bet rock that bonus damage
mighty ermine
running poseidon sword with blade rift cast or crystal beam is still good honestly. not as optimal as proper achilles spear boosting but +50% off the bat is great for them still
fervent canyon
yeah I guess my thinking is, I like how unique it feels
for me an aspect is more defined by how interesting it is
rather than just passive damage bonuses
so when I see that dislodge thing I want more builds to be able to take advantage of it
mighty ermine
i can definitely agree with that. it's more fun to put its specific gimmicks to use, actively
fervent canyon
exactly
worldly trellis
wait why run poseidon sword with either of those? they dont stick to targets so theres nothing to dislodge?
mighty ermine
just the bonus +50% cast damage passive
fervent canyon
pos sword gives damage bonus to cast
worldly trellis
o I guess I didnt notice that
fervent canyon
so it has bonus cast damage and the dislodge function
silk anvil
not optimal, but not terrible
fervent canyon
p much ^
silk anvil
something something roguelikes flex your adaption skills
fervent canyon
but so far I haven't used pos sword much, other than my most recent run with arty cast + exit wounds
that went pretty well so I was just wondering if there were other combos that utilize the dislodge function as much
seems like aphrodite could work if you set it up right
mighty ermine
exit wounds feels so good on poseidon and hera aspects
mighty ermine
lightning rod at least addresses the idea of casts post-dislodge
fervent canyon
yeah true although if you dislodge with poseidon, you're usually close enough that you just pick it up right?
hard time imagining lightning rod working super well with pos aspect
mighty ermine
yeah, it doesn't get much use if you're being proactive with poseidon aspect
it might at best work like a budget exit wounds, considering the casts would likely get at least a bolt off before being absorbed again
mighty ermine
i don't think so, just flat bolt damage
which can at least be affected by zeus T2s
fervent canyon
It would be sick if you could get that bonus damage from Poseidon aspect
Run festive fog
Sit back and let fog/lightning kill everyone
mighty ermine
thinking about it now, building around lightning rod and going heavy into zeus for T2s and potential splitting bolt could be a really fun/niche angle for hera specifically, since that damage can cover any downtime between absorbing and loading them again
and they're going to be on the field very often, considering the decreased lodge time
fervent canyon
Would you go infernal or Stygian for that?
silk anvil
I was gonna say, I dont really know about exit wounds for hera, but I was really happy when I found out about lightning rod for her
fervent canyon
Ah
dusk moss
Oh weird, getting to use summons vs. ||final boss||
Had no idea that was coming
That used to be a big perk of using Shady, heh
fervent canyon
It’s p cool
I like all the dialogue
||He yelled at me for using up meg’s precious time for example||
P funny
dusk moss
Maybe back to Battie for standard use, hmm
silk anvil
lightning rod can't show up or work with stygian
@Tailesque#4664
For real? Isnt lightning rod just zeus+artemis?
mighty ermine
yeah
magic dagger
the ping failed 
mighty ermine
since it requires idle casts on the field to work, it can't show up with stygian
as stygian casts just dislodge invisibly and disappear
silk anvil
the ping failed
@magic dagger
I've been pinging too many people
