At low heats, I'm usually looking to cheese multiple duos, so I usually end up going God > God > God > Acorn
#h1-builds-and-combat
hearty elbow
cunning urchin
That way, you basically get the hourglass effect in 2 biomes and still get to use the acorn.
barren otter
The text depends on when you take it. If you take it before starting the run it says "start your next attempt with obols", if you take it between zones it says "Receive obols"
hearty elbow
Right, but if you read the keepsake in the courtyard, it may not be immediately obvious to re-read for changed text in the middle of a run lol
fervent canyon
Dang never noticed that, I think because once I read “start”, I never hovered over it in the middle of a run
^
hearty elbow
I didn't use Coin Purse mid run until iike 100 hours in
fervent canyon
What a surprise I’m at 105 and same for me
Maybe it should say “when this is equipped receive 150 obols”
To emphasize the “when” of it
hearty elbow
It took me 60 hours before I ever used Chaos. I thought it was a floor skip mechanic similar to Curse of the Necrodancer. Why would I want to skip a floor's worth of rewards and lose life for it? Must be some speedrunner stuff.
cunning urchin
Going back a lot further,
Idk, I think a lot of the aspects work fine with heat off I guess
I think all of the aspects can do low heat perfectly free without any boons at all.
hearty elbow
Though doing fresh file Zag aspect is definitely a feat. Honorary RI4
cunning urchin
I would also say you can do something like 20 Heat with every aspect consistently with just 1 core boon for either your Attack or Special.
Fresh file doesn't have mirror talents or a lot of the other bonuses you get later in the game like +5 HP from Darkness chambers etc.
So yeah, that's a bit of a different beast.
hearty elbow
Still 0 heat :3
cunning urchin
Also perfectly doable with practice.
hearty elbow
And you start off with Athena, so that's a plus
cunning urchin
Yup.
I think you're guaranteed Divine Dash from the first boon, too? Not sure tbh.
hearty elbow
Mmm, I wasn't at least the first time I did it
Or maybe I took Strike intentionally? i don't remember
cunning urchin
I guess either Divine Strike or Divine Dash are guaranteed, at least.
tawny mica
okay i need help
ugh I'm using Guan Yu and i'm trying to figure out what's a better attack boon for it
hearty elbow
Divine
tawny mica
Divine Strike Lv4 Rare or Deadly Strike Lv4 EPIC?
cunning urchin
Divine Strike.
hearty elbow
Divine Common vs. Heroic anything
tawny mica
really? wow
fervent canyon
Um I’m in the middle of a run and coin purse def still says “start your next escape attempt with”
tawny mica
athena's set is that powerful?
fervent canyon
Am I missing something?
hearty elbow
You get near invulnerability standing in the middle of the spin
tawny mica
@fervent canyon that means you'll start with X amount of cash at the start of every run while using the coin purse
like 50, 75, 100 depending on the rank
hearty elbow
It's poorly phrased. You get it when you pick it, no matter when.
fervent canyon
Right but you also get that money if you swap to it in the middle of the run
fervent canyon
Someone else said the text changes but at least based on what I’m looking at right now, it does not
tawny mica
really? interesting @hearty elbow so you can just swap to it mid-run and get like a free 100? huh
hearty elbow
150 at max rank
tawny mica
oh right
cunning urchin
Epic Deadly Strike is only +9~12% more average damage than Rare Divine Strike, anyway.
Not worth giving up Deflect for.
static jacinth
Though there is additional crit synergy out there.
cunning urchin
Good night!
hushed ledge
it might not have been a good idea to try the weekly challenge as my first run back after a month or two
cunning urchin
Why not? Not enough pacts? 
hushed ledge
nah i can't deal with TD
cunning urchin
Oh I see.
Pausing the game whenever you make decisions can help save a lot of seconds.
hushed ledge
i am aware
i do that
but when i'm so out of practice, a timer just makes all my mistakes worse
toxic kite
hey, do you guys have a good build to farm darkness and gems ? In term of keepsake, god/boons etc.. because I'm currently trying to get around 8888 darkness for a stroy thing ^^
hushed ledge
do heats you've already cleared, always use the dark thirst weapon, try to get the poseidon boons iirc
toxic kite
What is that weapon ? 😮
main osprey
@toxic kite Dark Thirst means it has the dark aura in the courtyard, and if you open the Boons menu, you'll see one called "Dark Thirst"
fallow niche
Choose Dark Thirst weapons, get poseidon for his Ocean's Bounty or w/e its called for bonus darkness and gems, and take every single Chaos gate for his bonus darkness/gems boon.
toxic kite
Any go to keepsake or nothing special ?
main osprey
Purse to start so you can buy more darkness
toxic kite
Yeah fishing is the best feature of the game obiously hehe
main osprey
Then purse
fallow niche
Poseidon > Purse to purchase darkness basically
hushed ledge
honestly, I think it's more fun to just play the game normally and just pick up darkness on the way
than to grind out the 8888 darkness
toxic kite
Oh so I started my run pretty well !
Well for the past few runs i was just going up and up the heat, taking the darkness weapon etc.. But now I want darkness just for the quest, because in my usual runs, I rarely take darkness doors, and as I increase the heat boss don't give me them neither so it's pretty slow you know
Ty for the answers guys ^^
reef galleon
8888 darkness for a story thing is entirely too much tbh
toxic kite
Well that's what their asking for ahah
initially I was going for the 5000 bucks mirror upgrade, I got the 5000, and then this quest just appeared lol
cunning urchin
8888 is fine.
cunning urchin
More "veteran" players keep asking them to add more stuff they can spend resources on. And every time they do that, newer players ask for those things to be available sooner.
toxic kite
Did I ask for those things sooner ? I don't think so. I just told that it was big numbers
fallow niche
I think its gone about the wrong way tbh, the stuff that they need to give players who have everything maxed out should be similar to Bouldy as resource-sinks rather than one-time payments like the Mirror
cunning urchin
I didn't say you specifically asked for it to be available sooner.
toxic kite
But, talking about decorations, they cost a lot and you don't even know what you'll get exactly, I'd like to have a preview of what I'm buying, not to spend money on something I don't like. It would be my only complain ^^
fervent canyon
Kinda wish those urns hades spawns could be hit as soon as they’re fully visible, that one second they’re up but can’t be touched feels like an eternity
hushed ledge
The mirror is a pretty relevant darkness sink tbf
fallow niche
Perhaps the rerolls are, I filled up my mirror outside of those fairly quickly
The rerolls are 
wew a ton of darkness
hushed ledge
The mirror is like 144k or something total?
fallow niche
If you don't count the rerolls its like a quarter of that or something
hushed ledge
Yeah
fervent canyon
What does the reroll go up to? I’m at 2 rn and the third is 10k
cunning urchin
The mirror is odd in that by the point I actually maxed things out, it didn't matter anymore for me because I default to RI1 anyway at high heats.
fallow niche
Fated Authority goes to like 8 or something and Fated Persuasion goes to 4
cunning urchin
10 for Authority.
fallow niche
Granted you waste a ton of Authorities on a single door a lot
cunning urchin
||115,500|| Darkness just to max out Fated Authority and nothing else lol.
fallow niche
@hushed ledge Yup told you 😂
fervent canyon
Man, I thought it was a lot just for the first few levels
fallow niche
No it goes up 1k every level
fervent canyon
That’s a nutty amount of darkness
cunning urchin
500 / 1k / 2k / 3k / 4k / 5k / 10k / 20k / 30k / 40k
fervent canyon
That’s hundreds of hours worth of collecting darkness
fallow niche
Now, granted, FA and FP are the most powerful thing about the mirror, but still
cunning urchin
I definitely just know those numbers and did not copy-paste them from the wiki.
fallow niche
@fervent canyon Presuming you're not playing super optimal for it all, yeah it is
I think I got it done 200 hours in? Don't remember
Been a while
fallow niche
I got it done after 200 something from playing naturally so yeah
Though you should be going for Chaos all the time since his boons are bonkers
Regardless of Darkness
And the challenge is fun
cunning urchin
Fated Persuasion is only 41k.
fervent canyon
No I meant specifically going for the boon that increases rewards
fallow niche
I mean if you see it, its pretty good 👀
fervent canyon
I wonder what’s the fastest you can max out mirror if you’re playing with that in mind
Always go Poseidon, always try to get chaos
Troves all the time
cunning urchin
Dark Healing + Eclipse is super strong.
Hey, there's a new speedrun category for you, @fallow niche.
Fastest time to max the mirror.
All in one session.
cunning urchin
How about routing it. 
fervent canyon
Prob at least two straight days of the game
fallow niche
pfft even then routing all that chaos in would still make it take a long time
not to mention routing that mess would probably take like a year
fervent canyon
Rng on chaos boon will also determine a lot
cunning urchin
Can you actually route past a single run, or is the next seed always random?
fallow niche
Next seed on death is determined by previous seed + rng so its predictable
The problem is that a new file isn't predictable like that
Its based on your computer's time
And a few other things I think
cunning urchin
Well, you can manipulate your computer's time. So yay!
fallow niche
I will eventually find a way to reliably get a specific Fresh File seed but it may take me a very long time after 1.0
fallow niche
fervent canyon
Hey random question but do the devs design with high heat in mind? Because most players will prob be in the 0-20 range right?
cunning urchin
Fresh file all aspects routed speedrun.
fervent canyon
Just curious what their philosophy is on that
fallow niche
Most of their balance is on lower heat
toxic kite
Wow, how is speed running that technical 😂
cunning urchin
They def look at high heat balance.
fallow niche
They do consider higher heat for some things but its not their main focus
Very few players will go up there
cunning urchin
But their goal isn't that every aspect is viable at 50+ or something like that.
fervent canyon
That’s kinda what I was thinking
fallow niche
Every aspect can do up to like 50-something heat
fervent canyon
The documentary said the devs all do play tests of like 90 minutes per week, I wonder how many of them go up into higher heat levels
fallow niche
AP2 is what makes Chaos Shield the end-all-be-all I think though
cunning urchin
I dunno. Chaos Aspect and I don't vibe at all lol.
fallow niche
@fervent canyon Probably just 1 or 2 of them, outside of the playtesters with what I know
Amir said on stream once that only like 2 devs have really done high heat
fervent canyon
Chaos aspect is so strong with the hammer upgrade to increase damage on dash
Clear a room in like 5 sec
cunning urchin
I think he said Darren did the highest heat out of them?
cunning urchin
They watch high-heat runs, anyway. And all kinds of streams.
fervent canyon
Yeah they show that in the documentary
fallow niche
I remember their Noclip docs from early in development and you saw them looking at streams a lot
fervent canyon
Amir’s reaction to streamers is hilarious
fallow niche
And when Amir showed up in the Hermes Cup stream he recognized a streamer in chat
toxic kite
I feel like you can't do high heat with bow because it's so single target and not defensive at all, I do struggle doing runs with bows
fervent canyon
He’s yelling “push the patch” and one of the other devs is like “it wont affect his run, he has to close the game and download it”
Really funny
fallow niche
I remember when a Taiwanese player last update was obliterating high heat with rail and just never getting hit
Dude was a god
I think he was hit like only twice the entire run
Last I saw
fervent canyon
@fallow niche any cool videos of high level play?
toxic kite
I don't know, because when I don't have dash or speed boons, hades can reach me so easily and destroy my ass, plus I can't clean rooms fast enough not getting hit with bow
fallow niche
fervent canyon
Do it
toxic kite
I saw your 57 run a bit and it was impressive
fallow niche
I enjoyed it
cunning urchin
The best high-heat videos are from this super sick gamer girl called Nyaanyaa.
fervent canyon
Hmm why does that name sound familiar
fallow niche
None of you have probably heard of her 
fervent canyon
Ah well it’s probably nothing
cunning urchin
Some people (including herself) even call her the Queen of Hades. 👸🏽
fervent canyon
Oh so Persephone
cunning urchin
No. I took her throne. It's mine now.
cunning urchin
In all seriousness, there's a spreadsheet pinned in #h1-high-heat-strategies that has links to all the high heat runs that have been recorded.
toxic kite
Show me your talent !
cunning urchin
(In that spreadsheet, you should look for Nyaanyaa's videos. She's really good.)
hushed ledge
what range is "mid-level" for you?
fervent canyon
20ish
hushed ledge
I'm around that level as well, so i can't give that much advice
I don't use TD
mostly because I have a campy playstyle
tawny mica
well atm i'm just breaking through the single digits.. i'm going through a new run with Rama and i'm just trying to figure out what i'm doing
what keepsakes are good for going through heat with the bow?
should i be taking boon specific ones or the more stat based things?
fervent canyon
The long range one I guess?
30% extra damage from range
Doesn’t seem bad for bow
tawny mica
distant memory yeah
fervent canyon
Although if you want to close range with bow you can always point blank spam special
That’s pretty powerful
cunning urchin
I only watch specific runs if there's a problem with a certain aspect that I can't figure out myself to see how that person dealt with it or sometimes (rarely) speedruns with a particular aspect just to see what strategies I might be able to adopt for high heat.
tawny mica
well it would be nice if i could speed up the rate of fire first tbh
fervent canyon
There’s a hammer for that
tawny mica
i mean the special for rama's fast but hrm.. yeah but those are random
fervent canyon
But it takes away the charge shot
hushed ledge
you don't really have time to grab distant memory imo
cunning urchin
I've probably spent more time studying my own runs for mistakes etc. than studying other players.
tawny mica
sometimes there can be runs where you don't get a single hammer
even with the perk for it
toxic kite
The only person I watch videos of hades runs is jawless Paul from time to time, would you consider him a good player tho ?
hushed ledge
you will always get 2 hammers
tawny mica
really? huh
hushed ledge
yeah, you'll always be offered at least one hammer in zones 1/2 and 3/4
fervent canyon
You don’t have to go for it tho
toxic kite
I've always seen hammer too
tawny mica
i wonder if it gets skipped if something happens like chaos or etc...
cunning urchin
I don't think Jawless Paul does high heat at all, and I don't think he does speedruns. So . . . no idea tbh. He could be a good player who just doesn't do those challenges.
tawny mica
or an encounter..
toxic kite
mm i see, I'll try to watch some players of the high heat thing but it's hard to compare those runs with mine that are at 5 heat only at the moment lol
cunning urchin
Some people never do high heat, and then suddenly they do 4-5 WRs in a row with aspects nobody else had used and stuff like that.
Well, that's probably just bablo. But yeah lol.
Can never really say how good a player is until they really put their skills to the test like that. And some players just aren't interested in that even if they have the skill.
fervent canyon
I was searching videos on YouTube and came across a dude named Haelian I think it was? He seemed pretty solid at the game
cunning urchin
Haelian is without a doubt one of the top 3 Hades players.
toxic kite
Oh I'm gonna check this guy. but I have difficulties "analyzing" runs, there's too much tings going on for me to stay focus and not just enjoy the big mess lol
cunning urchin
There's only 5 people who've cleared 50+ on record without any routing. Haelian has the second-highest clear of those.
toxic kite
Like i already feel like a brainless monkey jumping everywhere and hoping for the best xD
But more seriously, for Hades fight for example, I still don't know how you can clean him fast without taking too much damage, like there so much things going on, it's like impossible to dodge everything >_<
cunning urchin
You don't have to beat him fast. High heat, you usually have like 4 minutes for the fight. That's a lot of time.
And for "analyzing", I guess just watch the run, and try to understand why they make the decisions that they make.
toxic kite
Well I feel pretty slow, but I can't recognize his animations to know how I should react. Like for example I'm often caught by his big spin attack because he goes further than I think
cunning urchin
And during fights, you can pay attention to their positioning and what attacks they use when and stuff.
Hmmm.
See, for the spin attack, you shouldn't usually try to get out of range.
You should try to i-frame it with your dash, instead.
fervent canyon
Timing is tight but you can dodge through stuff
Like the big rings
And the spin
toxic kite
The enemies that spawns bully me, I'm trying to ignore them because if i'm focusing on them i don't do damage to Hades and he does to me lol
Oh you can dodge big rings ? 😮
cunning urchin
I've compiled a bunch of the tips I've shared for the fight on this server in a document here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/137Vqe-8fvStMJ_HMlBKWwq3SVdoOED0lOpBBSmgGwtQ/edit?usp=sharing
toxic kite
Because when I dash through them i often take damage
fervent canyon
Right through them if you time it right
cunning urchin
Empty dash gives you invincible frames.
Dash-Strikes are not invincible.
So if you press Attack during the dash, you won't be able to i-frame anything.
cunning urchin
I've improved a lot at the fight since making that document and figured out a lot more things, but it should still be helpful regardless.
toxic kite
Ty for the file I'll definitely check it
cunning urchin
Plus, it's the only written "guide" for the fight, so it's by default the best guide.
fervent canyon
Is it actually? Someone else must have written one right? At least on steam or something
cunning urchin
Well.
fervent canyon
There’s guides for everything on steam
cunning urchin
Can you prove that it isn't?
fervent canyon
Well I’m too lazy to try so I guess you’re right
The best and only guide it is
😁
cunning urchin
I know that none of the other high heat players did a guide.
fervent canyon
Actually that knowledge about the attack dodge is something I didn’t even know
So thanks for that
That’s why I’ve been taking so much damage
cunning urchin
Sure.
fervent canyon
Mind=blown
toxic kite
Nyan goddess just granted us with her knowledge boon, now I can defeat Hades izi pizy
fervent canyon
I always spam attack when I dodge haha
cunning urchin
It's something I kinda knew intuitively but never paid any conscious attention to until somebody here told me that's why I kept getting hit by those shockwave attacks lol.
Nyaanyaa* 
There's no "nyan" even in the name.
fervent canyon
Honestly that knowledge is so important
I think I’ve been timing dodges right
Just didn’t realize I couldn’t attack
Oh wow
Sorry, I’m just realizing all my mistakes lol
cunning urchin
lol
fervent canyon
This is heavy
toxic kite
Do you dodge a bit before or at the moment he attacks ?
fervent canyon
When you see the circle
cunning urchin
I react.
fervent canyon
I’m pretty sure
cunning urchin
Oh, for the spin attack. Yeah, you have to time your dash.
But if you have two dashes, it's pretty easy.
fervent canyon
The cool thing is they train you with Theseus too
cunning urchin
If you do the first dash to early, you just do another one.
fervent canyon
To react to the circle and get ready for the spin
toxic kite
Theseus annoys me a lot 😂
cunning urchin
And yeah, empty dashing is crucial at high heats. If you want clear something like the Barge of Death at 50+ without dying a horrible death, you can't be Dash-Striking and Attacking all the time and leaving yourself so vulnerable.
fervent canyon
Yeah that seems critical now that I know about it, you’ve completely changed the game for me
I never really thought about it
cunning urchin
Lower heats, there's so much room for error that you don't really need to learn those things yet.
barren otter
lol, just checked the text on Coin Purse, it says "start your next attempt with obols" even between biomes. Could've sworn it was saying "receive" before. I think that's worth F10ing
fervent canyon
I used to assume that dashes were all invincible
So I just spammed attack without impunity
cunning urchin
Dashes have a startup and recovery that's not invincible.
fervent canyon
Right but I mean the middle portion
But you’re telling me that middle portion is not invincible if you hit attack during it
It’s safe to do at the end though right, once the animation is finished? Does it still count as a dash strike there?
toxic kite
Well I'm starting hades fight, i'll try to apply what you wrote even if it's a lot to apply in one fight lol
fervent canyon
Or Just regular hit
cunning urchin
You can also dash through an attack and then Dash-Strike once you're through, I'm very sure. But that requires some real precision.
fervent canyon
Got it
cunning urchin
Yeah, not easy to apply everything at once.
toxic kite
Do you kill minions he spawns tho or do you ignore them ? It's not mention in your doc
fervent canyon
I think it would be cool if the game had some sort of boss rush mode, to let you practice against the bosses and learn their movesets
cunning urchin
Always gotta keep in mind that I grinded the fight literally for hours at a time every day for a couple weeks lol.
Do you kill minions he spawns tho or do you ignore them ? It's not mention in your doc
Depends on a lot of things.
Like what's your DPS etc.
Also on what he summons.
fervent canyon
Btw is it just me or is EM hydra way harder than the other two bosses with EM on? That room is a nightmare
cunning urchin
I guess the one general thing I could say is if he's invisible, you should attack the summons. If he's on screen, you should (usually) pay attention to him almost exclusively because his attacks hit the hardest, and you want to be ready to i-frame any spins and not get hit by skulls (because of Boiling Blood).
fallow niche
Until you learn to not step in lava, yeah 😂 @fervent canyon
I always have EM2 on since it makes the fight waaaay faster
fervent canyon
I need to learn that haha
fallow niche
Can kill multiple heads at once
fallow niche
Most of the time I can kill 3 at once too
fervent canyon
So 90% of the room is lava
cunning urchin
I would say until you're comfortable with EM2, just take your time with it. Don't dash blindly. Dash only when you need to.
fallow niche
The hydras don't have bad attacks to dodge
cunning urchin
Even with TD2, you have forever to finish that fight.
fervent canyon
It’s just the environment
fallow niche
Yeah asphodel is the fastest biome
10 chambers, with hydra being the 9th
Tartarus is 15, asphodel is 10, elysium is 12
fervent canyon
Right
Asphodel def feels fastest every time
I’m always surprised when I hit hydra
fallow niche
Because it is! So don't rush the hydra fight
cunning urchin
The only times you should dash blindly is when you have like Epic Greatest Reflex and Divine Strike or something.
fallow niche
Heroic greatest reflex 
fallow niche
Greatest reflex is the hermes boon for extra dashes
Epic greatest reflex gives +3
Heroic via eurydice is +4
fervent canyon
Oh yeah that’s my favorite from Hermes
fallow niche
"oh I messed up"
"SIKE"
fervent canyon
Although one time I had a move speed build which was fun too
toxic kite
In asphodel I'm always stepping in lava i hate it 😦
small stirrup
Holy shades @fallow niche how the hell did you make it on 4 sack
fervent canyon
I was running Hermes keepsake and got the move speed after dodge plus damage bonus
That was fuuuun
toxic kite
Well I just beated Hades, I tried to dodge his spin in 1st phase, I think I got it, but then just to be sure to win, I relied on my shield to block most of damage lol
fervent canyon
That’s what shield is for right? Gj
toxic kite
It's so usefull
fervent canyon
Yeah imo shield is the easiest weapon for me
I did the 32 heat run for the statue with it
toxic kite
When he beams, you just keeop your shield up, no need to hide x)
toxic kite
It feels a bit like cheating lol
fervent canyon
Like I said, I cleared 32 heat with it
It’s very strong and beginner friendly
Fully upgraded chaos aspect is crazy
toxic kite
Oh wow, beating Hades gave me 700 darkness because I had poseidon and chaos boon equiped, that run focused on darkness should have gave me almost 2000
So I'm at 7126, almost those 8888 for the quest
cunning urchin
I don't know if I mentioned it in the document, but in phase 2 during his last 50%, Hades is enraged.
So he attacks with less delay between attacks.
So I'm at 7126, almost those 8888 for the quest
Yay.
toxic kite
There's a thing I should improve also, it's the companion usage, I always forgot to use them >_<
fervent canyon
I’m at 7k right now actually, but already did the 8888 so I’m just trying to get reroll number 3
toxic kite
What's better tho, chaos or Beowulf shield ?
fervent canyon
Imo chaos is better
Faster playstyle
Beowulf is a bit slower
Shield in general is very strong tho
So you can’t go wrong
toxic kite
Like what are your favorite aspects for each weapon and what weapon is your favorite ?
fervent canyon
Chaos shield def my favorite
I also really like Zagreus aspect for the rail
And hades for the spear
toxic kite
just curious to know if almost everyone feels the same, so it'd means that devs made some weapons way stronger/funnier than others
cunning urchin
I did 52 with Beowulf. I'm not actually a fan of Chaos Aspect. I think it requires too much to get actual damage.
fervent canyon
That’s interesting, I feel like you just need a damage special boon and the hammer upgrade
And you’re golden
It’s just dash -> rush -> throw shield -> repeat
cunning urchin
Nah, at 50+ you def need something like Thunder Flourish + Jolted to get the damage.
fervent canyon
Oh if you’re talking high heat maybe diff
toxic kite
Oh I just unlocked for 7 diamonds to allow ||achilles and patrocle to meet||. Gosh i'll 1st allow ||nyx and chaos|| because i'm closest
cunning urchin
I'm basically always talking high heat tbh lol.
cunning urchin
But if it needs specific things on high heat, that definitely affects lower heats, too.
Thing is just that at low heats basically anything can work.
toxic kite
So you prefer beowulf right ?
cunning urchin
Yeah.
But there are plenty of people who swear by Chaos Aspect.
It's probably as much a playstyle thing as anything else.
fervent canyon
When I use the Beowulf I feel like I’m trudging through mud haha
cunning urchin
FWIW, I'd put both in top 2 in a tier list for aspects lol.
fervent canyon
That slow charge up time for the rush
toxic kite
At the moment my favorites are chaos shield, arthur sword, talos fists, multiple arrows bow and hades spear maybe ? (I don't like the gun at all lol)
cunning urchin
Hestia is really the only rail I use.
fervent canyon
If you get triple bomb + the 5 at once
That special looks hilarious
Half the screen is bombs
toxic kite
i don't like the playstyle, it's pretty static, and you have to reload
fervent canyon
It’s not anymore static than bow
toxic kite
and it doesn't protect you from damage, and as a beginner I like that lol
cunning urchin
Hestia is easily the most mobile aspect in the game.
fervent canyon
You dash -> attack -> dash -> attack
toxic kite
i tried for example Lucifer aspect, and i love the idea but I just can't do proper runs with that
fervent canyon
Don’t let them get close
Lucifer is a little tougher imo
The other aspects are easier to use
More intuitive at least
cunning urchin
I think Lucifer is probably really good, but my only experience with it was on 53 or something, and I didn't like it lol.
Was just experimenting with different aspects and builds for 50+ at the time.
fervent canyon
I always forget to lay those orbs down, the bomb special is much simpler
You just hit the button and forget about it
With Lucifer you have to keep track of more
More strategic in special placement
cunning urchin
Stygius: Nemesis, Excalibur
Varatha: dunno
Aegis: Beowulf
Malphon: all
Exagryph: Hestia
That's basically what I use.
Oh yeah.
Coronacht: Zagreus
Varatha I'm still waiting to max out Achilles Aspect before I delve more into all of them.
Talos is definitely the most difficult Malphon aspect to use. But I do use all of them.
toxic kite
is talos difficult ? i just grab an enemy then hit him
cunning urchin
Well, it's not that simple on high heat with FO2 and BP2 and everything.
Demeter Aspect is probably the easiest to use. That probably has the most good players.
Just very easy burst damage.
toxic kite
Well i should try this aspect, i think i didn't yet
cunning urchin
Zagreus Aspect leaves less room for error probably because you don't have that burst damage, but that has quite a few good players, too.
fervent canyon
I think I just need to spend a lot more time with all the aspects, I’ve been mainly sticking to the ones I used first
But it’s hard when they aren’t fully upgraded yet
cunning urchin
Imo there are only 2 good Talos players.
fervent canyon
You don’t really see their full potential
half crater
what's the heat record with Talos
half crater
still pretty high lol
cunning urchin
Thank you. 
toxic kite
Quick question would you rather take hermes attack speed or dodge number ?
I'm with talos rn
cunning urchin
What aspect and what build?
toxic kite
My build has nothing special at the moment, just zeus throw and poseidon ultimate
cunning urchin
Throw? Ultimate?
toxic kite
So I don't know what I'll get as attack, dodge and special
cunning urchin
Is this a fighting game now.
toxic kite
You know what I mean, my game ain't in english so i don't know the exact terms <_>
fervent canyon
Dodge number is usually safe no matter what you’re running
cunning urchin
What's the third option?
toxic kite
30% movement speed
cunning urchin
I actually don't know what you mean by throw lol.
main osprey
Cast
cunning urchin
Oh right.
toxic kite
yeah cast
cunning urchin
Hmm if you have a reroll, I would reroll for dashes.
Otherwise grab Attack speed.
cunning urchin
Oh.
toxic kite
30% move speed
toxic kite
Alright
cunning urchin
Greatest Reflex is like the #1 priority boon in the game.
toxic kite
And what god works well with talos fists ?
toxic kite
Because there's like Dionysus, Zeus and poseidon waiting me
cunning urchin
Deflect on Attack or Dash is like the top priority.
Lightning Strike and Curse of Agony are great options for Attack.
toxic kite
Well but if athena doesn't show up ?
cunning urchin
Then take her keepsake to ensure she does.
toxic kite
Okey, now it's too late but okey.
God I hate fighting the 4 witches in Asphodel, there's so much to dodge lol
cunning urchin
Fundamentally, Malphon on all aspects wants:
Divine Strike + Divine Dash
Curse of Agony + Divine Dash
Divine Strike + Hunter Dash
Lightning Strike + anything is an alternative that can also work.
But those three have the most potential, generally.
Demeter Aspect also wants a +% Flourish. The other aspects don't care so much about that.
toxic kite
mm got it. is there any document regrouping builds for different weapons or aspects ?
The only thing I noticed is that taking armor damage on hammer boon is a go to
cunning urchin
Not really. I certainly haven't made one for Malphon, and there are only like 3 other people who know the aspect that well.
toxic kite
Oh Athena offers me divine strike and divine dash
cunning urchin
I also wouldn't actually want to make one because I think it discourages experimentation too much in the meta.
What rarity is the Attack?
toxic kite
So I grab someone then attack him to death, I should not spam the special right ?
cunning urchin
Hmmm.
The way I use the Special is that I immediately cancel it into Dash.
If you do it right, it will look like you only do a dash, but you'll still pull the enemy.
That way you can very quickly and easily Dash-Strike enemies and/or get behind them for backstabs.
Doing the Uppercut part after the pull will often leave you too vulnerable.
And yeah, most of your damage will come from Attacks. But your casts can also do a lot of work.
toxic kite
but then you should consistently doing your basic attack to use your divine strike
When you've marked the enemies for an increasing damage
cunning urchin
Best overall cast for Malphon imo is by far Phalanx Shot. You can just throw it out and dash behind it to engage your enemies perfectly safely.
Yeah, basically.
toxic kite
Alright
You really are a well of knowledge ahah how many hours have you in game ?
cunning urchin
A lot of it I do intuitively. You could watch my 45 clear sometime if you want to see how I use it.
toxic kite
I'll do
toxic kite
Well that's a lot, I'm around 70 at the moment
dry ember
She's pretty OK
cunning urchin
Something like 200+ of that are all high heat.
Or grinding boss fights for high heat. Stuff like that.
Yes, I agree. I'm pretty. 👸🏽
fallow niche
@small stirrup Good build I guess!
Cold Fusion is actually good
Or, more accurately, Jolted is good and by extension Cold Fusion is good
main osprey
Oooh, Volty updated his name
fallow niche
I think the boon is really sub-par on low heat but on high heat its great
small stirrup
Yush
cunning urchin
/block @small stirrup
main osprey
Heh
fallow niche
nerf family favorite to nerf artemis pls
family favorite is the reason why dio is trash tier on low heat now imho
cunning urchin
Lady Aphrodite is unparalled on any heat. 💗
fallow niche
Depends on wep, but I think overall Artemis is just way too strong right now 
Mostly because of Family Favorite. Previously losing Priv Status was huge and yet Artemis was still very good, but when FF was added she's just been insane on lower heats
I remember seriously thinking about whether or not I wanted Dio or not in my runs in the past
Now I just don't 😭
toxic kite
When you take Zagreus bow, with artemis attack and you almost never deal critical damages.. How bad is the build lol
reef galleon
I take Flurry Shot with artemis attack when possible
I still have never tried making a build around the Bow's Special. Maybe because there are no obvious picks with it and it seems really weak in the beginning, at least to me.
toxic kite
I took the hammer that makes your hold the basic attack to shoot faster rather than charging the basic
reef galleon
yes that's flurry shot
toxic kite
And still I almost never get critical hits so i'm almost to theseus with no damage output ><
reef galleon
Flyrry Shot + Chainshot + the Artemis boon that makes foes "marked" is what I'm going for usually
reef galleon
Why
toxic kite
Oh now I have a new hammer boon, which to take ? triple arrow, hunting arrow or arrow twins ?
fallow niche
It does significantly less damage and is awkward to use
Zag bow is most powerful when you use Dash strikes with good timing
It does a lot of damage
toxic kite
yeah i do regret flyrry shot a bit
reef galleon
I'm a complete opposite, can't play Bow without Flurry Shoot. Spamming dash attacks and holding attacks for criticals hurts my thumbs 
toxic kite
Well arrow twins shorten the range so it may not be a good choice. triple arrow and hunting arrow remains
random hull
What does hunting arrow do again?
toxic kite
the arrow bounce between enemies, i took it
random hull
Chain shot then - you are probably playing another language?
random hull
Chain Shot and Triple Shot, now that is a funny combination.
toxic kite
maybe I should turn it in english to simplify my shares on Discord
I have chain shot and flyrry shot actually
random hull
I know. I just wanted to point out that the mentioned combo would be cool to have.
toxic kite
But I only have one life left before the arena, I took a lot of damage because of the enemies >_<
Oh sure thing
random hull
Clutch time!
toxic kite
I don't like flyrry shot it does feel clunky
But i thought there would be more chance for critical hits that way you know
random hull
Technically you are right, but the base damage goes down.
More critical hits aren't truly better if they get smaller as a tradeoff.
toxic kite
yeah and the range feels shorter too ? Idk if it's just feeling or reality
barren otter
I like flurry shot on Hera bow
random hull
The advantage of Flurry Shot is that you get to mid-range faster, but I think the regular power shot goes farther.
barren otter
it's also nice on Chiron
random hull
Agreed. You want the attack to reach its target as fast as possible in both cases.
toxic kite
I don't even try to beat Charon anymore, I just lost so much or even die to him, it's not worth x)
I tried one run to go for him with just a single boon, I got rekt ahah
random hull
It's been a while I fought him. I did it to fulfill the prophecy.
toxic kite
Gaaah I always forgot to use my companion in boss fight
random hull
And they even give off noises to remind you they're there for you.
random hull
It's some soft squeaks, so it's not that loud. Hard to hear in the heat of battle.
toxic kite
Nooooooooooooo
I took the blacksmith thing in charon's shop in Nyx. it took of my chain shot, and replace it by the double arrow that shorten even more the range and the special damage to armor that I never use T_T
random hull
Taking the anvil is dangerous with the bow. More often than not you wind up with something useless
But Twin Shot and Flurry Shot - you can make that work.
toxic kite
I often get something quite interesting with melee weapons tho
Well actually its not that bad, seems like I deal more damge
I just need to position myself better, which is difficult ll
random hull
You double the damage, and the range loss is acceptable because you don't need to charge
Getting closer is a bit dangerous, but I wish you luck!
toxic kite
Yeah I actually deal A LOT of damage, but what I fear is fighting hades with such a short range with a bow that can't block attacks
Time to beat dad's butt
Or be beaten
And i'm dead
random hull
Oh well. Time to try again.
toxic kite
i don't know if he fights differently depending of your weapon tho. Because I was waiting for spin attacks but he just spammed the skulls, so there was so much i couldn't destroy them all and got hit a lot
thick gyro
I got already guanyu aspect and unvest 5 blood on railgun, even encounter uncle zeus several times, but still lucifer dont show up.. any once could tell me how to unclock it?
toxic kite
Sometimes you just have to wait a little bit
thick gyro
I see.. just do run more yea?
toxic kite
For example I should have unlocked bow 4th aspect since 5 runs, and I just unlocked it
There's a RNG
toxic kite
Like it's random you know
toxic kite
You did all you could to unlock it, know just be patient and it will come !
toxic kite
Np feel free to ask
thick gyro
Appreaciate brother
cunning urchin
i don't know if he fights differently depending of your weapon tho. Because I was waiting for spin attacks but he just spammed the skulls, so there was so much i couldn't destroy them all and got hit a lot
He doesn't.
toxic kite
Ok so RNG just destroyed me
cunning urchin
I'd say lack of experience and practice did.
toxic kite
Of course, tho there can be patterns easier than other :p
Currently doing Hades spear run, doesn't feel that powerful yet, it takes time to charge up the strike then you don't deal that much more. But it's not maxed out maybe that's why
cunning urchin
You don't need to charge it to max to apply the debuff. Min charge is fine.
toxic kite
Indeed
hearty elbow
Always gotta keep in mind that I grinded the fight literally for hours at a time every day for a couple weeks lol.
@cunning urchin I feel like this can never be overemphasized. Being good at the game isn't some function of natural talent or whatever. The game is hard. You have to get your reps in.
dry ember
You guys practice for stuff? I just complain and wait for patch notes.
barren otter
you love to see it
https://imgur.com/KUvhLHi
always perfect when that happens
(even if I ended up not using up SD in the final fight)
hearty elbow
What usually happens is I get a 3 stack, I don't notice I have 1 charge left, I'm at 20% health then I hit the fountain room with LC4.
main osprey
@small stirrup
https://discordapp.com/channels/456889434672201729/725021639506526249/744842236046475425
this is why I like Legacy :3
small stirrup
WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZZEE
gleaming current
I know it's probably on the list of things to do, seeing how it's been asked for a million times, but Exit Wounds should not be offered or have a different effect if you have the Mirror upgrade that makes Bloodstones regenerate, not drop.
It's funny, I used to almost never get offered Exit Wounds before that upgrade was around, and now that I almost exclusively use it, I get offered Exit wounds incessantly.
Doesn't Exit Wounds work with both variations? It only should check for the icon of bloodstone above enemy, not actual bloodstone dropping
small stirrup
I was just gonna question that
I am pretty sure that it does still work on the regen cast
unkempt pagoda
both infernal and stygian souls dislodge
stygian just doesn't drop a bloodstone item
onyx iron
has anyone used "Family Favorite" regularly?
imo it needs to be buffed pretty drastically to compete with Privileged Status
I could see, maybe it giving a 5% damage per different gods' boon
but generally, you're not going for multiple gods ever
random hull
If you take Fated Persuasion, it isn't out of the ordinary to have four gods + Hermes. A flat 25% damage buff (which can get higher with forcing gods) is nothing to sneeze at.
Whereas Privileged Status' 40% are harder to maintain.
I don't see a need of a drastical change here.
onyx iron
but the bonus is 2.5% rn
random hull
Family Favorite has two levels.
onyx iron
ohh wow
random hull
It's possible to get it up to 5% per Olympian.
unkempt pagoda
it's not meant to be similar with FF in terms of damage, anyways
and it's way more flexible
onyx iron
yea
no, it being 5% maxed out makes much more sense
I thought I was making a suggestion, but it turned out to be the case
lol
thin hull
I only use family favorite; keeping two debuffs stacked is nontrivial with a lot of weapons/aspects
For me, at least
Easy with shield tho
onyx iron
yea, most of my runs' choices are based on getting PS going tbh
I'll try family favorite
I just scoffed at the intital 2.5% when I first saw it and didn't think to actually try it
or level it up apparently lol
thin hull
I almost never fail Elysium
onyx iron
I'm pretty solid completing runs at 10 heat rn, except for a few weapons
I think the spear is sitting at 9 heat right now :/
I neglected punishing sweep spear for too long i think, had a really good run yesterday with it
lucked out with hammers though too I think
tend to try for crit builds with high single-hit weaps like that
when it crits, it's glorious :)
when it doesn't, well, I usually take a face-full from charging it up
lol
thin hull
I like going special build guan yu
onyx iron
the cracklin spear thing?
thin hull
Yeh
onyx iron
haven't used it too much yet
thin hull
Its base damage is great
Add on that one hammer for charged spear throw and you're hitting 400 damage crits
onyx iron
ye, I haven't leveled it up fully, my first run with guan yu was with it at level 1
it was rough sailing, but I did get the prophecy for it
but yea, the health/healing loss is awful
at lvl 1
thin hull
Yeah, level 1 is rough
But at level 5, and getting good with positioning for spin, it wrecks
Especially with attack deflect
onyx iron
yea that's right, it chucks out a spin instead of the regular spin attack
wonder if you can get massive spin with it :?
thin hull
You can
main osprey
massive spin + quick spin is 👌
unkempt pagoda
when you get the spin build on hades spear and it's so big it disappears 👌
frail salmon
man I wanna get the mega sweep build with Hades Aspect, just become a beyblade.
small stirrup
I still beyblade harder on GY than Hades
mighty ermine
yeah, GY benefits more from spins as a big source of damage rather than Hades, where it's used mostly to set up for other things
small stirrup
I wish spins did more damage on Hades aspect though T^T
The radius itself just makes my eyes go 👀
Its so satisfying
mighty ermine
punishing sweeps unable to create sweeps that punish even more than the first 
frail salmon
Yeah I know...but still, it only feels fitting that the mega quick sweep build goes on the sweep spear
THe spin still applies attack effects right?
mighty ermine
yeah, your attack boon will still apply on spin attacks
frail salmon
I like guan yu, I'm just not good enough to play with that little health
need to get some more TB to take the edge off, and since the healing is only 1 per one tick
makes every hit hurt a lot
mighty ermine
yeah, leveling GY takes a lot of its initial edge off
and healing with spins is slow and rather unreliable unless you're against a fairly meaty crowd
mighty ermine
hades aspect's strengths still lie in the spin's synergy with attack and special options, though. focusing entirely on spins is definitely viable a lot of the time, but the only benefit you're really getting from the aspect itself is much more forgiving spacing
frail salmon
true
I might start doing some heat runs with gloves, I think they are by far my favorite weapon so far
mighty ermine
fists are super fun, do you have a favorite aspect with them yet?
frail salmon
Hmm, I'm torn between Zag and Demeter, haven't even tried Talos yet because it doesn't seem good. Zag is nice for teh free dodge, but Demeter getting multiple special hits is really nice if you go Arty Crit.
The issue I see with Talos is that pulling in enemies doesn't stop their attack animations, so you can yank them in and proceed to eat a free hit
mighty ermine
yeah, a lot of fists players tend to agree that talos is the most awkward of the bunch
and does potentially put you in danger without dash cancels in exactly the way you describe
frail salmon
Dash Cancel how? Dash out of the attack as the enemy is being pulled towards you?
mighty ermine
yeah, you pull and then basically dash out of your initial position asap
frail salmon
Ohh, hadn't thought about that
but even then, the magnet yank doesn't really do anything but that right? Or do you get bonus damage on a pulled target, I can't remember
mighty ermine
you do get bonus damage from subsequent attacks and casts, at least
frail salmon
ah
mighty ermine
only for 4 seconds though, iirc. so less forgiving of a time frame than hades' punishing sweep
frail salmon
Oh jeez yeah that's fair, but the gloves are a much faster weapon over all so I understand that.
mighty ermine
right
frail salmon
Demeter Aspect with the Charged Shot hammer for Gloves is pretty interesting.
Because if you get it charged up you fire a string of like 8 ki blasts into someone's face XD
Pretty nutty, also I love the fact that Greg and Gavin are playing Hades at the same time, G gang rise up.
main osprey
@kind cloud (from #hades-feedback ) Make sure to report that in-game, that sounds like a bug
kind cloud
Got it. Will do.
shadow harness
i had a question about getting dionysus's legendary boon, i think i got most of the tier 2 boons, but im confused what the exact requirements are. what are the requirements for dios legendary?
main osprey
according to the wiki,
One of each:
- Bad Influence, Dionysus' Aid, Drunken Flourish, Drunken Strike, Numbing Sensation, or Peer Pressure
- High Tolerance or Trippy Shot
plus a decent helping of good luck
@shadow harness
hearty elbow
Lol you can get Black Out without Trippy Shot that doesn't sound right
shadow harness
ah ok i didnt have either high tolerance or trippy shot but i had like all the other ones, makes sense
thank you
thin hull
you can't get high tolerance without trippy shot anyways
so, y'know
but I suppose you could sell trippy shot after getting high tolerance and still be eligible for the (now useless) bad influence
elfin pulsar
is chain shot on rama bow just straight worse than normal?
it seems like it doesnt bounce and now also doesnt pierce
thin hull
it does bounce
hearty elbow
Chain shot is good on Rama. Not great since it doesn't affect your single target, but hitting 3 targets spread out does a lot with Sharanga
frail salmon
I had an idea for the final Fist aspect: Aspect of Ali: Your attack becomes Sting and your special becomes Butterfly, where dashing just before your special or attack does two hits instead of one.
frail salmon
Is there any kind of build for Undamged Foes? I know I would probably be taking Black Shawl but is there anything else?
half crater
there’s a mirror upgrade for that
other than that, idk i’ve never tried
Hera bow maybe?
actually no i think that counts as more than one hit
even so, if you want a “one shot, one kill” type feel it’s probably the way to go
unkempt pagoda
competes for the best rail aspect imo
half crater
there you go
unkempt pagoda
it’s an amazing boss killer, but not as good in rooms
unkempt pagoda
important thing to note is that it works with explosive, piercing, or ricochet fire
half crater
so do i want to be reloading as much as possible, or what
unkempt pagoda
yes
and you can manually reload at full ammo as well, so you start each room strong
unkempt pagoda
good luck!
frail salmon
Why Arthuer for the one Tap one? the Charged attacks?
unkempt pagoda
it hits very hard, especially the third attack in the combo (but i still prefer shadow presence on it)
frail salmon
ah okay
I might try them both out, also does Arthur special only do damage at the point of impact? I got the one upgrade the makes the area huge but I don't think the damage carried into the wider zone
unkempt pagoda
the arthur special itself is the exact same as the normal sword special
it just also spawns the aura, which doesn't do damage
half crater
should i be running fiery presence with hestia?
i used shadow and turn turned out alright, but i meant to switch to fiery
just forgot
unkempt pagoda
imo you shouldn't be running fiery presence at all
frail salmon
Oh really?
unkempt pagoda
entirely outclassed by shadow
frail salmon
even if we are going for a one shot one kill kind of build?
unkempt pagoda
one shot one kill doesn't work too well when half the enemies have armor and the bosses all have invincibility phases
half crater
makes sense
frail salmon
well you know what I mean, big numbers with one button press
half crater
i haven't used fiery much for that reason, just wasn't sure if i was underestimating it
unkempt pagoda
generally speaking, shadow presence is better at bosses and fiery is better at regular rooms, but
it's not exactly difficult to backstab regular room enemies either
frail salmon
true
half crater
also you don't need the extra damage as much in normal rooms
unkempt pagoda
big numbers can be done with shadow presence more often than fiery, and the mirror traits provide the exact same damage buff (+50%)
frail salmon
yeah and if you take black shawl you get an extra 30% to backstab and 30% for undamaged
unkempt pagoda
if fiery presence was higher than shadow, then i would consider it. but as it stands, shadow/fiery are the exact same except shadow can be done more often
frail salmon
makes sense
half crater
that's a good point actually
it makes zero sense that they're the same damage boost, when you can do shadow all day and fiery only once
frail salmon
yeah
but if they take Firey to lets say, double, no one will ever use shadow again imo
Literally double damage on the first strike would make one tap builds top tier
half crater
i mean, there's still elites and DC and stuff
and like, aspect of lucifer or whatever
either way, there's gotta be a number for fiery that makes it comparable to shadow
like, a valid alternative but not the "one true choice"
frail salmon
yeah
half crater
dunno what that number is tho
unkempt pagoda
there's been suggestions of expanding the definition of the term "first hit"
like, procing after armor is removed, and procing after an invincibility phase on a boss ends
half crater
yeah if it was like, first hit on armour AND first hit on hp that'd be better
how does it work currently with DC actually?
do the shields waste it or no
calm glen
Recently I managed to have a really strong combo of just putting a ton of simultaneous status effects with the aegis. I had enemies suffer rupture, doom, frost, decay, and jolted.
frail salmon
whoa, how did you do that?
calm glen
I got most of my boobs from Zeus, Ares, and Demeter, and got quite a few from Poseidon and Hermès. I also got quite a bit of gold and bought out the boons in almost every shop I came across
It was a really good run
frail salmon
so you just had a curse on every ability eh?
Dash, attack, special, call, and cast?
calm glen
My lightning cast jolted, it also inflicted frost, attack and special inflicted doom, my dash causes rupture, and if I froze all enemies they decayed
And I had Demeter’s call to keep everyone frosty
And I had lightning bolts inflicting jolted when I take damage and dash
frail salmon
o.o
frail salmon
I have a question about heat, if you go above your current heat level, can you still earn bounties for the lower heat levels that you have exceeded?
barren otter
if your heat gauge is at 5 and you do a 7 heat run, you will be getting bounties for 5 heat.
frail salmon
and then if i keep it at 7 will i get bounties for heat 6?
barren otter
yes!
frail salmon
Ahh okay that's good to know
I've been super ginger with turning on heat because I didn't wanna miss any bounties.
but Now i'm probably gonna slap on EM3 and TD and see what happens
frail salmon
I just had an idea for a meme run, go Shackle+Crit Sword or bow, try and get sweet nectar from Pos+Aphro, and then try and level up pressure points as high as you can for Shackle Crits
calm glen
Has the final aspect for the fists been released? I assume so, but I want to be surprised by what it is and so haven’t looked it up
calm glen
Okay. So I should go for the final shield aspect. I have all but those two
calm glen
I’m kinda disappointed that there isn’t a scythe weapon, or at least scythe aspect for the spear. I know it’s cliche but it would have been cool. Get to use Than’s scythe
hearty elbow
Yeah agreed that'd be pretty cool
small stirrup
This is probably way out of scope for the game, but 2 player co-op would blow my mind... mixing and matching builds together along with the heat system would just be so much fun (From #hades-feedback )
Does no one read the FAQ...?
cunning urchin
There's no rule against wishing for it anyway.
fallow niche
The closest we got to that is the racing stuff we got going on right now
Though its hardly similar to coop
turbid needle
My lightning cast jolted, it also inflicted frost
@calm glen
What boon makes cast do both of those?
analog sail
I think it's called snow burst?
60 damage and chill in an area around Zag when you use your cast.
turbid needle
Oh yeah just remembered that one
Anyone have luck with a Vengeful Mood run?
I want that boon to scale (less time between activation) cause it doesn't seem that strong
unkempt pagoda
vengeful mood is fine if you manage to get 2-3 revenge boons
once i saw someone here get all of them
turbid needle
Can they trigger at the same time?
calm glen
The Demeter boom that levels up boon rarity over time seems good but I think when I first used it, it was bugged cause it kept resetting my boons back to normal every so many encounters
worn sand
Does zeus's Double Strike on lightning bolt effects work with Jolted?
cinder drum
Am I the only one obsessed with Poseidon's Dash and call?
it lets you play so safe with the bow
reef galleon
I pick poseidon when I want an easy run
Can't deny the incredible advantage of keeping the damage away in a game about trying not to die
dry ember
Athena outshines Poseidon if you want to stay safe.
eternal quartz
Alright, 10th Weekly Challenge is officially finished! Congrats to all Punished, hope you had ~~tough ~~ good time! Here's the link to Hall of Fame: https://www.hades-fansite.com/hades-weekly-challenges/HWC10
As mentioned before, we're taking a break from the challenges. We need to rest, regenerate and reorganise thoughts to come up with some fresh ideas. Stay tuned!
main osprey
Yeesh, I just barely slipped in at the end xD
turbid needle
Hey, I've been struggling heavily with the Aegis and Varatha. Could anyone give me a general idea of what the best aspects and boons are for each weapon? I haven't even cleared the game once with either. Only gotten to Hades and die, or not even to Styx.
main osprey
@turbid needle Athena is always good :3
For Aegis (Zagreus), you want to get some solid damage on your attack, and some utility on your special
For Varatha (Zagreus) you want the opposite, especially if you've put any Titan's Blood into it.
Since you don't have access to a lot of Titan's Blood, I don't recommend Chaos Aspect, since it needs to be at least rank 3 to be good.
turbid needle
In Varatha I only have Guan Yu 1 Zagreus 2 and Hades 2. Aegis I have Chaos 1 and Zagreus 0
So, I guess for Aegis I'll be going Zagreus. But should I ponder any of the other two for Varatha?
worn sand
maxed Chaos shield is super strong
main osprey
Hmm, with two ranks into Zag that's alright for the spear, yeah
worn sand
zagreus shield is very strong too
main osprey
Just stick some solid damage on your special
turbid needle
Alright, sounds good then
main osprey
Explosive Launcher + Charged Throw is really good, either one on its own is a game-changer
If you get Tempest Flourish (Poseidon Special) + Sea Storm (Pos/Zeus Duo) + Chain Skewer, that's also good (though not the best against the final boss, but it'll get you there :3)
turbid needle
Alright sounds lovely. I'll be giving those a try for sure. I'm thinking perhaps an Aprhodite buff to the Special in order to reduce damage taken, perhaps. Or Athena.
main osprey
Both would be good, yeah
turbid needle
Awesome, thanks for the info once more hah
main osprey
Sure thing! And best of luck!
turbid needle
Thank you thank you
calm glen
Varatha is my favorite. Guan Yu makes you more vulnerable but if you can get any boons that increase healing or max life gain, it can make you invincible, capable of harvesting tons of health
hearty elbow
Guan Yu's healing does not scale up or down with anything, and the aspect debuff makes normal healing 50% as effective, as a heads up. I don't actually know if Nourishing Soul and Lasting Consequences works additively or multiplicatively with GY. If it's multiplicative, that's not great for Nourishing Soul lol (but I suspect it's additive like 99% of things)
fallow valve
Any reason why Guan Yu needs such a huge downside? The weapon is slower and hit harder, but so does Arthur and Rama, and yet they have a bonus instead of a malus, so I'm a bit confused why Guan Yu have -50% total hp
main osprey
Because GY gives you lifesteal
In a game where healing isn't supposed to be easy
Zag comments during the very first run that he can't heal
GY also hits hard at a range—just like Beo, which also has a downside
fallow valve
What's your opinion on the lifesteal btw? I'm personally not a fan of it, I like the style of Guan Yu and can do with the slower / hard hitting attacks, but I never use the spin so I would've rather not have it nor the health malus
main osprey
Oh, I think it's awesome
Almost needs Quick Spin, but is a ton of sustain, especially in places like Styx with lots of enemies
fallow valve
Hmm, maybe I haven't given it enough of a chance yet, I'll try messing with it a bit more
What boons do you usually go for with GY?
fallow valve
I'll give it a try, thanks!
winged hearth
main osprey
Nice!
hearty elbow
The Charged Skewer special has such insane range and AoE that it also makes sense that it has the health cost. Though I will say that Charged Flight does play very similarly with slightly worse AoE but significantly more single target, with a lot more manageable downside, but I don't think that hammer is balanced, so yeah.
fallow niche
I think its balanced, sure its good but there are far more powerful aspect + hammer combos out there
Charged flight is particularly good at higher heats but I don't think the devs are aiming for perfect balance up there anyway
And nothing compares to Chaos Shield anyway for max heat
hearty elbow
Right, but picture it as a better Charged Skewer that gives you 90% more health and 100% more healing.
small stirrup
I'd love to see a high heat Zeus run
fallow niche
And the health loss on Guan Yu only matters for higher heats if you're talking about Skewer specifically
I run High Confidence and Guan Yu all the time and I don't really have an issue, its incredibly fast if you get an early Charged Skewer and Artemis on special
hearty elbow
I think it's disingenuous to say the health hit only matters at higher heat. If you're playing at lower heat it makes sense that you probably don't have perfect mechanics yet either and you're going to get hit.
And I'm not saying Skewer is bad. I think it's insane. But it does seem like a weird choice for shield to get a side/upgrade that has virtually no downside and the flexibility of still having a shield to block with.
Unfortunately, at the range you want to be charged skewering, you probably won't be in an ideal position to be using the spin to sustain (and its generally not even worth to try on FO2 without one of the spin hammers)
fallow niche
Sure you're going to get hit but worst case scenario you can heal up with the attack a bit. If you avoid hearts altogether too then you're just playing foolishly - especially if you're not, well, confident enough to take High Confidence. Very few enemies chunk for 25 damage until way later.
If you're having trouble surviving with 50 life early on low heat then the issue isn't the hammer - its your own skill.
hearty elbow
EM3 for example is terrifying at GY, pretty much no matter what. An unlucky Theseus drive by is going to wreck a DD pretty much no matter what.
And you are not spinning to sustain in that fight
fallow niche
Losing a DD in T&M isn't the end of the world and EM3 T&M is actually easier than not having it if you take it slow
And if by that point your build sucks and you try and spin attack there then that's either a big RNG problem during the run or a planning issue with your boons
I can't remember the last time I died on sub-32 heat on pretty much any aspect, the game really isn't that hard until you crank up the heat lol
And in a situation where you're not really worried about dying, Charged Skewer is def faster
They do comparable damage but Skewer pierces enemies while Flight only hits two max at a time, its really not close
hearty elbow
I think we're arguing in two different directions. I'm not really talking about speed running, as I don't think that's in the purview of the vast majority of players. For the average use case, I'm saying there's a pretty clear difference of reward vs. risk with the two hammers. I think Charged Flight should offer far more risk for the reward it grants
fallow niche
So you're talking about how survivable the weapons are then and not really about how strong as a build choice it is?
hearty elbow
Yeah, I'm talking about the aforementioned 90% health gain and 100% healing rate gain of using Charged Flight, which is a very disproportionate reward for an immesnse single target boost with an (admittedly sizable) AoE loss.
fallow niche
There isn't really a whole lot of risk on low heat, if you're talking about how well newer players deal with hammers I'm not certain that's a good dissection of their relative power levels
Then Achilles Spear should be buffed to the moon
Since its really not easy to use
(this is me saying that's a silly philosophy btw; Achilles Spear has a very high skill ceiling and its extremely strong now)
hearty elbow
At low heat players are demonstrably scared to use GY because of the huge barrier to entry, and at high heat people are scared away because LC4 + Stubborn Defiance gives you like... 1 hit per SD with GY.
Especially with RI2
fallow niche
Those are comparing two completely different groups of people though lol
Newer players playing high heat would just lose on every aspect
Speedrunners and high heat people on lower heats laugh at the prospect of dying on Guan Yu
In the same vein, speedrunners don't like Charged Flight because its notoriously slow, and I don't like it for 57 Heat because of all the limitations it has there
Not really a fair comparison
For either hammers like that
hearty elbow
Right, but what I'm saying is that no matter which heat group or experience level you're referring to, for the exact playstyle of GY you may as well be looking for either Charged Flight or Hestia because they don't incur additional risk
fallow niche
No? Because there is very little risk with pretty much any aspect on low heat lol
High experience level doesn't care
I run EM2 and FO2 every run including my High Confidence Guan Yu runs
Because its fast
Charged Skewer snipes like 3 hydra heads at once
Listen, I'm not saying that Charged Flight is bad, its exceptional on higher (though not highest) heat levels
But on low heat, its not really that much of a competition in terms of raw power or speed versus Charged Skewer
Its perfectly fine for different hammers to have their own niches
That's why I think its especially silly to say that charged flight is 'not balanced' when its just okay
Its certainly no Double Edge Nemesis sword
Not even within a hundred miles
hearty elbow
270 base damage with no downside at high range, with a free ricochet is absolutely not in line with other ranged options
fallow niche
Yeah Guan Yu has something to say about that lol
Same thing with Hestia and Hera etc
Poseidon Sword also can chunk
It was the WR holder two updates ago for a reason
hearty elbow
GY is 135, Hestia is 150. The numbers are pretty wildly off lol
fallow niche
Hestia doesn't need a single hammer to do that and Guan Yu can hit far more targets at once at a higher rate
Very disingenuous to simply compare them on pure base damage alone
hearty elbow
Twin Shot Zagreus has shorter range, needs to charge, and is only 240 damage on a CRIT.