@worthy adder check the pinned messages in this channel.
#h1-builds-and-combat
cunning urchin
spring turret
should be pinned here
cunning urchin
You could just try it now. The general theme for them is to just encourage creativity but not be too hard. 
worthy adder
Well I just did a run with a fully upgraded hestia which has boosted my confidence a good amount
lost cairn
poseidon aspect with exit wounds and pressure points seem cool
and it does make the dislodge crit
worthy adder
btw something I've always wondered
How do multipliers work?
Is everything multiplicative or are they summed across categories
nvm I found the wiki article
worthy adder
Haha, sorry to trouble you
cunning urchin
@noble hornet use this channel to discuss #hades-feedback. Should move your post here.
The feedback channel is only for posting feedback.
untold vortex
it's important to read the very first pinned message in the #hades-feedback channel
as it outlines what is expected from both those posting and reacting to feedback
noble hornet
Ah ok sry
sour solar
Mmm I've finished beating the game about 4 times now
I've been wondering
How good is aphro?
noble hornet
I never read pinned msgs because I dont really use discord that often. sry
cunning urchin
Lady Aphrodite offers the best damage bonus for Attack and Special, generally!
untold vortex
when getting the early access role, it's explicitly asked of you to read the pins before posting
cunning urchin
Weak is also really strong by reducing all damage you take by 30%.
sour solar
Hm
Also Is zeus's jolted effect good
What about poseidons rupture
I beat hades by spamming sheild special and bull rush and I finished the whole thing without using a single death Defiance
And I genuinely don't have the skill to do that with any other weapon
So I was thinking it might be a little too op
cunning urchin
Yeah, those DOTs are especially good if you use Privileged Status.
sour solar
Mhm!
cunning urchin
Shield is probably the safest weapon.
sour solar
How does it compare to Dionysus though
Yeah sheild is pretty good
It doesn't have huge damage but daedalus hammers can change that by alot
Apart from the sheild I do like the exagryph
Particularly the legendary aspect
cunning urchin
Well, Hangover doesn't need a t2 boon to apply a status curse.
sour solar
True
cunning urchin
So it's not directly comparable.
sour solar
Fair
cunning urchin
You can also stack Hangover.
cunning urchin
I'd have to check the wiki. Depends on rarity, though.
civic barn
somewhere around 80-120 i think?
carmine rivet
60 Base.
Rare: 1.3-1.5 times Base
Epic: 1.8-2.0 times Base
Legendary: 2.3-2.5 times Base
for some reason it uses T1 boon scaling even though it's a T2 boon
cunning urchin
Those factors work for Lv.1, yeah. It's technically +30~50% for Rare, etc., and additive with pom level bonuses.
So a rare one will always be 18~30 damage more than a common of the same level.
worthy adder
I can't shake the feeling I did 6k damage with hestia (like I think I remember doing that much damage in one shot) but the math doesn't seem to work out. Is there a way to check the maximum damage you've done?
worthy adder
Well, a crit on 150 would be 450, so I'm still ~10x short that has to come from additives
cunning urchin
Crit damage can get absurd.
worthy adder
I remember having a couple of chaos boons but no way I could get a 10x multiplier
inner patrol
Epic clean kill & decent enough level on an epic Art attack boon could theoretically get it
cunning urchin
There's also Hide Breaker.
worthy adder
Clean kill only adds like, .40 to the crit modifier
oh wow
Okay hide breaker would make the math work
cunning urchin
And Hunter Dash.
worthy adder
Hunter dash wouldn't make enough of a difference
cunning urchin
But it would add to it.
worthy adder
yeah
I accounted for hunters dash, it would get me closer but yeah I think the piece of the puzzle I was missing was hide breaker
inner patrol
When it's adding that to a damage boon that deals like, almost 300% of original damage that's already tripled, it could get that high
cunning urchin
There are also Jerkeys and the Nails I think? Whatever adds damage to armor.
You can stack a lot of damage for crits.
inner patrol
Jerky, pierced butterfly, etc
worthy adder
Yeah I accounted for most the additive stacks and they wouldn't get you anywhere close to 6k without hide breaker
cunning urchin
Hide Breaker is a bit underrated imo.
worthy adder
It does seem a bit overkill if you have low crit chance
Then theres a chance the damage will go to waste
inner patrol
Yeah it'd be better if the damage bled over, but then it could get too good
worthy adder
if you do that much damage to armor, the armor just breaks right?
cunning urchin
It won't go to waste much vs super elites and BP2 enemies.
Or BP1, for that matter.
They're pretty tanky.
worthy adder
well most of this 6k would have xP
I think? I assume they don't have that much health
cunning urchin
Well, yeah, you don't need 6k crits lol.
Just saying in general it's kind of underrated.
worthy adder
Yeah
I agree
After looking through damage calc
I understand why artemis attack base modifier is so low now
cunning urchin
Most of the threat from armored enemies comes from the fact that you can't stunlock them.
worthy adder
Yeah i usually take antiarmor hammers
cunning urchin
So the faster you can break that armor, the easier your fights will be.
Yep. And they let you kill super elites in the final boss fight super fast, too.
worthy adder
Is there a rule for what can stunlock? I notice things like rail attack and shield special dont cause enemies to falter
well, dont cause skelly to falter
i'm testing on him rn
I'm guessing its not based on damage
For example bow special falters despite doing 10 damage
worthy adder
It looks like shield special and rail attack are the only things that aren't geting skelly to falter
To be specific, all rail attacks (including empowered hestia) and the first 3 shield specials
inner patrol
Yeah what gets me frustrated more than anything is when those end boss adds get spawned in a Tartarus Erebus gate, especially if I have BP on, because they always seem to put haste on the splitters
Honestly that seems to be the best argument to use Fidi for your companion, since Dusa stays around long enough to deal with enough enemies to make it worthwhile using instead of a huge chunk of damage out of the blue that may or may not hit what you want it to
cunning urchin
I think I've summoned her exactly once maybe lol.
worthy adder
I'm still waiting to unlock them
Is there a good use case for the skele one?
not sure when to use it
cunning urchin
I've summoned that one twice.
worthy adder
i guess on chariot rooms when i have no range
livid comet
hmm
inner patrol
Not as much as there used to be because he takes more than 2 damage now. He's good for ranged builds so you can target the enemies that target him without being harried
livid comet
I'm having a bunch of difficulty finding charged skewer now
inner patrol
Also you can damage him, making him leave sooner
worthy adder
wait you can damage him? Can you damage him to lifesteal?
cunning urchin
You can't get Charged Skewer on Achilles Aspect anymore, if you're using that.
inner patrol
Really Sis is the best summon to use. Deals damage, gives you health, and some cover if you leave the darkness & coin on the field
worthy adder
cover? wow interesting
inner patrol
I mean probably, I don't usually have Skelly when I've got Cursed Slash or something
Darkness, coins, pickups like that count as solid objects so attacks don't go through it
worthy adder
can you block hades lazers?
inner patrol
It's great for EM Theseus
I THINK, but his laser is super finicky as is. You can even avoid the lasers entirely if you stand close enough to him
worthy adder
😮
cunning urchin
Yeah, the Darkness and Obols will block everything just like any other indestructible object on the map.
worthy adder
Well thats hilarious
inner patrol
Maybe they fixed that, but I've used that little trick to great effect with Malphon
cunning urchin
Nah, you can still stand right on top of him.
inner patrol
Just remember to keep your direction locked to where Hades is so you can keep from pushing yourself out of the safe zone
It's hilarious with Crit & Cross skills so you can just keep laying on ridiculous damage while effectively standing still
cunning urchin
Then after the beams he has some recovery, so you can go all out with Dash-Strikes or whatever you want.
And you can use a call for i-frames when he starts the beams to move into position safely.
Unless your call is Poseidon's Aid. Don't do that lol.
inner patrol
Hell if you've got death defiance still you can even die & use that immunity to get into position
cunning urchin
Nah, gotta do the fight hitless. 
cunning urchin
*nerfed Guan Yu
worthy adder
Is guan yu that good?
cunning urchin
All of the spear aspects seem pretty good now.
livid comet
the AoE has been restored, the damage on special has been reduced a little
GY is my favourite spear
that makes 6 runs in a row now that charged skewer hasn't been offered now
:/
worthy adder
It seemed meh to me other than the fact that its special gives me ASMR
livid comet
GY's special is indeed it's best aspect
worthy adder
Oh you don't need to retrieve the special
wow
you can immediately animation cancel into a dash strike
cunning urchin
It also gives semi-permanent invincibility with Quick Spin and Divine Strike.
worthy adder
does that work on melee attacks too?
I never really got how non-dash deflects work on melee attacks
Oh what the frick GY has a 3 hit combo?
cunning urchin
Divine Strike deflects attacks. It doesn't give you actual invincibility from them.
dire wedge
Yeah, the Darkness and Obols will block everything just like any other indestructible object on the map.
you just gave me an idea for EM3 T&A
inner patrol
It's great for Theseus' spread fire
cunning urchin
So if an attack connects with you, you'll still get hit. There may be one or two frames where you can deflect before their attack is active and you won't take damage, not entirely sure, but that's definitely not reliable.
So like, if you're standing in front of a Wretched Thug when he raises his club, and you're punching away at him, you'll get clobbered.
worthy adder
mmm
cunning urchin
If you're standing in front of Hades when he does his spear thrust, you'll get impaled.
But if you move to the side or behind them and attack, you'll deflect it. Also swings like Asterius's are easy to deflect.
And there are AOE attacks that you just can't deflect.
An attack that's deflected won't do damage to you anymore.
So it's like, you need to deflect attacks before they hit you or move out of the way and deflect them.
@dire wedge do you want to drop Bouldy in Theseus's path? I think he just pushes them around lol.
But they'll block attacks. Maybe you can get one stuck in front of his machine gun? lol
No idea if that works.
dire wedge
@dire wedge do you want to drop Bouldy in Theseus's path? I think he just pushes them around lol.
@cunning urchin or use it as another wall for Asterius' charges. There are times (happened twice for me so far) where Theseus bugs out and just keeps on driving into a pillar like an idiot, essentially taking him out of the fight until he gets nudged into his normal pathing. I wonder if we can recreate that with Bouldy's packages.
empty robin
Artemis has been my go-to goddess whenever I use Arthur but today I'm feeling adventurous . Anybody has any suggestions?
cunning urchin
Heartbreak Strike.
rare topaz
^ Or an Ares build.
cunning urchin
Doom on Excalibur? 
rare topaz
empty robin
I always aim for Heartbreak Flourish (correct me if I'm wrong), Divine Dash and Deadly Strike for the sweet duo boons. Any builds that doesn't include Athena or Aphro?
rare topaz
I mean, if you dedicate to Ares you do get Doom, of course, but if you want an Artemis component still, be it through dash or something else, then you could aim to get the duo which comes when you have Ares' cast, which allows it to home onto enemies.
Infernal Soul for the 3 bloodstones
Privileged Status if you feel like getting some other status effect but ideally you'd go for Family Favourite
empty robin
Well I'm not aiming to do cast build with Arthur
Cast builds are good with any weapons so it's not what I had in mind but thank you for the suggestions
rare topaz
Fair. You could still run Ares without aiming for cast but yeah :P
(Though something tells me Doom is controversial)
empty robin
You're probably right
cunning urchin
You'll get more out of Heartbreak Strike + Deadly Flourish + Divine Strike for those three.
I guess you could put Divine Strike on it for a change?
The weapon is pretty straightforward.
cunning urchin
Heartbreak Strike has better average damage than Deadly Strike.
And benefits more from adding Deadly Reversal than Deadly Strike.
cunning urchin
So the answer to not using the same three goddesses was to use the same three goddesses in different order. 
A cast build on Excalibur is fun, though. You still get all the benefits from the aura and the 50 HP.
rare topaz
^
empty robin
I just got Deadly Reversal from Charon's pre-boss shop
Holy hell
Forgot to mention
In tartarus
empty robin
Haven't got Hearbreak Strike yet but Divine Dash was given to me pretty early on
empty robin
So I ended up taking Divine Strike
And it did not dissapoint
Also I found a secret OP synergy between Acorn and Athena's Legendary
rare kayak
was stuck behind a wall on that one asphodel room with two staircases in an l shape and almost had to watch as than killed a blue skeleton i couldnt reach
then the skeleton started its combo and killed itself from cold fusion
as the two of us were watching from the top level
woven hill
I just got Curse of Drowning for the first time and it's so good against the heroes omg
empty robin
First time hearing anyone saying that
woven hill
I had the aspect of Talos so I was all about staying close to the enemy, and having perpetual AoE damage was so great for that.
empty robin
Talos increases cast damage to "marked" foes so I guess it's good
turbid needle
Is Curse of Drowning better with Infernal or Stygian Soul?
woven hill
You can stack Infernal so I'd go with that
It doesn't cling to enemies so you can pick it back up once it's done
9 pulses rather than 3
turbid needle
what counts as a seeded run? I tried the thing with giving up on the death screen and the starting boon is the same but the other rooms seem ramdom again
can you call that seeded or nah
dry ember
Yeah that's seeded
Seeded run only guarantees first boon
The rest of the run has to be played out organically
turbid needle
Nah, there's been routing through Asphodel.
I know at least one player that was working on Elysium.
okay 🤔
dry ember
I'm not saying routing doesn't exist
Toffel is asking if giving up and receiving first boon again without knowing what comes after can be called seeded
The answer is yes, that's technically a seeded run
turbid needle
thanks
in other rouge likes when people call a run seeded its usually the entire thing so hades is wierd
maybe it'll change when theres an actual option to use seeds
dry ember
Yeah RNG manipulation for the whole run or at least past room 0 is called routing
It's weird for me, too, coming from Isaac
stoic thicket
Turns out leaving Tartarus with Zeus special, Jolted, Double Strike and the Legendary feels pretty awesome.
empty robin
Good luck with that. I'm not touching Cursed Slash with Arthur on my hands
zenith jay
Why
dry ember
Low attack rate doesn't exactly benefit with Cursed Slash
And the +50HP vs 66% health reduction is a bit antagonistic to each other.
zenith jay
I like the lifesteal, already won with that combo, plus reduced damage from aura
I like it
zenith jay
cunning urchin
Yeah, why not. You still have more effective HP than if you used another Stygius aspect.
dry ember
You can get more healing with dash spam on Nemesis
zenith jay
I'm also using high confidence so excalibur is strong af
zenith jay
I also like using the aura vs the witch circle in asphodel
dry ember
But if it works for you then do it
zenith jay
And just reflect everything
dry ember
I personally don't, but that's OK too
cunning urchin
Dash-Strikes don't heal.
But yes, it's easier to heal with the other aspects. But you also have less HP and damage reduction.
cunning urchin
Maybe in an older version. I was using it just yesterday, and it did not. Checked the recording to verify just in case.
dry ember
dry ember
Can someone confirm it works before? I remember being forced to pick Cursed on a Nemesis run on 32 and thought this is useless. But then dash strike heals and I though this is good xD
Ah well
cunning urchin
You probably messed up your Dash-Strike inputs.
cunning urchin
It's you, so I have to assume huma—dog error first.
zenith jay
By the way, I'm noticing I'm getting some dodges even tho I'm not using any aspect or any boon with dodge
Did we get a passive dodge or somthing
dry ember
Did you have lightning reflex? Or ruthless reflex
dry ember
Yeah that's it
cunning urchin
Ruthless Reflex gives you Dodge, yeah.
dry ember
Happens to the best of us
cunning urchin
No, I can't confirm it happens to me.
dry ember
Yeah because you are nowhere near "best"
cunning urchin
Am I not the best female Hades player?
dry ember
👀
cunning urchin
Boss 1 is in chamber 14, boss 2 in chamber 24, boss 3 in chamber 36.
But if you take an Erebus Gate or Chaos Gate right before the final shop in a region, it will add a chamber.
zenith jay
Alright, do chaos gates count as chamber? Like as an encounter in well items and chaos curses
cunning urchin
Not as an encounter, no.
rare kayak
you really figure out how much you rely on dashes when you take the new zeus boon lol
cunning urchin
But as a chamber for Hydra Lite and stuff like that (is there any other stuff like that? )
cunning urchin
I suppose lol.
dry ember
Which aspect?
red hound
any one honestly
I used to mainly use guan yu but
FO 2 has made it such that stuff never stays in the spin long enough anymore
cunning urchin
Heartbreak Strike and Deadly Flourish.
red hound
does the old spin spear still work
cunning urchin
Divine Strike and Hunter Dash + Heartbreak Flourish.
red hound
its abit reliant on hammers tho
turbid needle
i made aspect tierlist guys
what is your opinion about this?
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/507701621887598603/728663516231368854/Screenshot_20200704-022827_Chrome.jpg
cunning urchin
Deadly Strike + Hunter Dash . . .
Any combination of those three will be good on Varatha.
dry ember
Demeter and Lucy in C tier
red hound
do yall think spear is weaker than the others
dry ember
Whoo boy
red hound
or is it just me
dry ember
Yeah, it used to be at least imo
red hound
everytime I use it I get so sad
dry ember
But with new buffs
I'm not so sure
I had fun playing with Hades yesterday with the new buff
They are certainly in a better place now. If you hated spear, now is a good time to try and love it.
cunning urchin
Varatha is pretty good now. Way too soon to say if it's still weaker. I feel like it's in a good place now.
dry ember
@turbid needle how can I make a similar tier list?
I want to put forth some controversial opinions, too
red hound
think different heat and skill levels use weapons differently as well tho
arthur is honestly a pretty forgiving weapon to use
whether its good or not in higher heat idk
never been there
cunning urchin
Seeing Demeter in C but Talos in A is amusing.
red hound
i find zag fists + r1 spam with athena attack pretty brainless and effective
untold quiver
@red hound I'm having early (10-12 heat) success with Achilles Spear and blade rifts --> Hunting blades
Although I have not had Spear come up in the rotation since the update
red hound
arthur B makes me sad
unkempt pagoda
i was about to commend you for hera too
turbid needle
I love rama tbh
errant narwhal
thats why you can make your own, it depends on if you like it or not 
red hound
used to be fine but now
dire wedge
I like Rama a lot, got my first 32 with an attack focused build too. But there are definitely more efficient options
dry ember
Yeah the link is above. Just state it as opinions, because it' really is opinion
cunning urchin
Lucifer could probably go up a tier.
Yup. Excalibur S tier. Can't argue with a 46 heat clear.
red hound
hmm
always thought he'd fall off in DC2
who did the 46 heat clear?
do u have a vid?
cunning urchin
Wriste13. It's linked in the pinned doc in #h1-high-heat-strategies.
dry ember
heat is different than overall viability.
but then again, this is personal opinions so ¯_(ツ)_/¯
cunning urchin
Well, they're all viable.
dry ember
yeah, I guess I changed my definition of viability here
red hound
ah he didnt even take dc1
cunning urchin
Most of the low tiers are there mostly because no one's pushed high with them yet. So it's like lack of meaningful data.
red hound
honestly didnt really expect anything else
dry ember
Mainly because they don't have anything that lets them stand out exactly, looking at D tier here
cunning urchin
Zag Shield has block. So I can't put it in bottom tier lol.
cunning urchin
But I've really no idea what tier it could be now.
dry ember
so (base + sum of %increase)*3 at whatever crit rate %
serene nexus
What are some good casts for 4th shield aspect?
red hound
no more ares? lmao
serene nexus
... why is Nemesis so low on the list? This is HERESY
cunning urchin
Nemesis + Deadly Strike is 45%. If you add Deadly Reversal, that's 65% crit rate.
red hound
looked cool at the start tho
dry ember
I use Crush Shot because damage reduction is nice, base damage is really good, awesome Privilege Status enabler
red hound
theres pressure points as well tho
dry ember
... why is Nemesis so low on the list? This is HERESY
Nemesis is A tier to me, what u mean :3
serene nexus
Was referring to Nyaanyaa
unkempt pagoda
is zeus cast not a prereq for smouldering air or am i being rng screwed
cunning urchin
I don't know. Prove to me that it isn't.
serene nexus
What’s Crystal Flare? Is it an alternative cast for 4th shield?
cunning urchin
It's at the top of B tier.
dry ember
oh does the ranking between tier count, too?
cunning urchin
Yes.
serene nexus
Ah. Gotcha.
dry ember
welp
turbid needle
thx
cunning urchin
@red hound with Hunter's Mark you can get guaranteed crits anyway.
Well, I think they're guaranteed. I don't actually know if there's a hard cap. Could be 95% for example and I never noticed.
serene nexus
For Nemesis aspect, you have immediate access to critting on Aphrodite with very little set up, Athena special to deal with projectiles and Artemis for Duo boons (or Athena dash and Artemis special) and as long as you’re good with your dashes you’ll breeze through everything.
cunning urchin
Well, go ahead and do something higher than 40 with it, and I'll move it up a tier.
red hound
zeus is generally pretty good on attack
red hound
luci uses zeus as well doesnt it
dry ember
Heartbreak Strike or Deadly Strike on Hestia
If you are feeling extra adventurous, try Hunter Dash Curse of Agony Hestia Rail
Patented by me.
split glen
hestia aspect
this might be controversial but I'm starting to feel like half the aspects could use a buff
cunning urchin
They also only take 5 Titan Blood to max out.
dry ember
If Hestia then I already posted build above. Good hammer to look for is Ricochet, Piercing, and Explosive
You also need Hestia at least level 3
Otherwise it's underwhelming
split glen
I have level 4 hestia
dry ember
Then that should work.
cunning urchin
And I don't know about "a lot". Zag rail is good, Zag Malphon is good, Zag spear got a buff, Zag shield got a buff, Zag blade also exists.
split glen
I think maybe I should unequip cosmic egg
dry ember
Just should one bullet and reload
cunning urchin
Definitely not?
split glen
maybe it's just that some suit my playstyle
red hound
only one imo is fists
split glen
anyway, I used to be able to get 4-5 chaos boons on any given run and now it feels like I'm lucky to see 2
dry ember
I don't equip Egg in Tartarus
You should go God X X Acorn sequence if you want somewhat reliable clear
Relying on Chaos is, well, chaotic
cunning urchin
Zag bow is great, too. Forgot to mention that one.
dry ember
Zag Bow Fists and Rail are good
cunning urchin
Probably the best bow. Though Rama seems pretty strong.
cunning urchin
I think they're fine.
cunning urchin
I liked it a lot when I used it.
Feels properly like Zag was trained by Master Achilles now.
dry ember
Is Achilles a "Master"?
red hound
im pretty biased toward 1 aspect per weapon so
dry ember
Does he deserve a seat on the Council?
cunning urchin
The wow factor can pass, too.
Then you'll feel like you know what, I wanna use a sword that's just a sword without any gimmicks.
Maybe just for a run or two.
red hound
I played on and off so I'm still at like less than 100 clears
I'd still rather shoot lasers than bullets at this poont
cunning urchin
At the moment, the Zag rail just seems really boring to me, too, but I'm not as hype for the new aspects just because they're new like most people seem to be. I wanna try Hestia next, rather.
red hound
hestia was my first max rail
main osprey
I still haven't tried Hestia or Eris, but those are the last two aspects for me, so I'm planning on doing them today and tomorrow
cunning urchin
Nothing wrong with being hype for new aspects, either.
unkempt pagoda
hazard bomb + lucifer is an... experience
red hound
hellfire doesn't slow after it drops right?
and hazard bomb is a no no
entire map explodes but u explode as well
unkempt pagoda
i’m currently doing 970-1000 damage per bomb but i also have to be really careful about my positioning
random hull
It helps knowing exactly when they explode. I used it by dropping a bomb, lobbing a Trippy Shot after it and getting away post-haste. It has great meme potential.
gloomy bone
I just used Aphrodite's Call on one of the adds in the Hades fight. It was a chariot, and it was definitely the right choice
main osprey
Nice :D
lament coral
I like to think of it as a scuffed Guan Yu
Cast build is powerful with most casts but it's clunky against bosses and shielded enemies; attack build is strong with percentage scaling boons but you're wholly reliant on getting attack hammers; special build is similar to attack in that its base damage is very good but you need the Charge Special and +4 Bounces hammers to make it actually viable.
Actually, it's not like GY at all
turbid needle
i see
i used ares magic at beowulf, but it sucked. it spin too short time than normal.
so i thought beowulf is bad
lament coral
that's just Ares, it's really weird because the damage is delayed
any other cast explodes instantly
fickle kayak
does +%attack damage give more damage to dash attacks?
lament coral
yes
fickle kayak
ty
lament coral
+dash attack only affects the dash one though
fickle kayak
thats what i figured but it could just be a bit ambigous ^^
or, it actually is ambiguous
lament coral
it is in fist's case, cause it has dash attack and dash special
cunning urchin
Which are both affected by Dash-Strike damage +%, but only dash-attacks are affected by Breaching Cross (which has Dash-Strike in the description).
So it's all really simple if you happen to already know the answer.
fickle kayak
yeah but the fact that the game makes that distinction made me question whether attack bonuses would count for dash attacks, as it was classed distinctly
but maybe thats just me
guess i could look at actual damage numbers but who does that
;P
lament coral
the confusion is understanda🅱️le
cunning urchin
Yeah, I didn't figure it out from the in-game descriptions either lol.
fickle kayak
also, maybe not the right place but, do perfect catches do anything?
random hull
Perfect catches get a tier 2 or tier 3 fish, whereas regular catches typically yield tier 1 or maybe tier 2.
fickle kayak
hold up theres fish tiers? is that in the codex?
random hull
There are three different species per biome.
fickle kayak
oh the species, right
random hull
They give different rewards, too.
unkempt pagoda
honestly my lucifer hazard bomb run earlier wasn't too bad, only died because i was way too unsafe with my positioning
very high risk, high reward
worthy adder
is it just me or does call generation scale better off on-hit than it does other damage?
how does call generation work?
turbid needle
We're not exactly sure, but we're pretty sure there's a minimum generated value on any given hit, which is why Blade Rifts and other extremely fast-hitting effects fill so quickly.
modern wyvern
Guys is poseidon cast losing its pushing abilities with beowulf shield intended?
Cast doesnt even proc the duo with zeus
seems like the worst cast to get with it 
crimson crypt
im really liking aphrodite with beowulf aspect
modern wyvern
yea me too
crimson crypt
aphrodite usually has a ton of damage but isnt useful because its tiny range, but with bull rush its procced like 3 times in a row with sword special range
modern wyvern
you can even proc at range with the rush-shot hammer
crimson crypt
ooo i need to try that
have you tried aphrodite cast with ares attack on beowulf?
i feel like theres good synergy there
modern wyvern
not yet i think i just did aphro + deme
so i could proc 2 debuffs to get the +40% damage mirror buff
crimson crypt
ye thats a good choice, im thinking if i can get hades/aphro duo, the 40% will stay up longer
modern wyvern
poseidon really disappointed me, cant rupture, cant get synergy with zeus
old sea man is hurt
crimson crypt
aww thats sad
kind cloud
Amir said they didn't make enemies faster but man....they're kicking my butt. And I'm not some noob. I've beaten the game up to 42 heat on chaos shield (pre-blood price update) but 24 heat now feels like a legit challenge.
The enemies definitely feel a lot faster. It feels like they spawn and go into attack animations much quicker.
worthy adder
Man charm turns weak is such a good duo
kind cloud
charm turns weak? i don't follow
simple trail
aphrodite legendary is 15% charm chance for weak
worthy adder
Every time I get it the boss never ends up doing much
like he'll charge up for his beam attack and then it'll get canceled
this is even though i usually put weak on hard hitting attacks like arthur
kind cloud
right, i was confused b/c it was phrased as "charm turns weak" when it should be "weak can charm"
native holly
Hey guys, is there some math done on the effectiveness of power poms done? Or numbers that say how much each level increases a boons effect?
serene nexus
Remind me. What does the new Companion do again? The wiki isn’t up to date
Where does it place compared to the other companions
peak iron
Generally speaking, poms scale logarithmically.
kind cloud
@native holly There is diminishing return on poms. First level up is biggest. Next one gives less. Next one gives even less.
Try it out with sweet nectar (poseidon/aphrodite) duo boon which gives +2 level up per pom.
peak iron
Usually putting more than 2-3 levels on a boon is a bit of overkill.
But sometimes, there's no kill like overkill
kind cloud
I've seen a few individuals get up to lvl 20+ on attack/special/cast/dash using sweet nectar.
native holly
Have any numbers? I know what they do, was just looking for specifics @kind cloud
kind cloud
I don't have any numbers. Sorry. But it would difficult to chart and would require a lot of work. SGG could save us a lot of trouble by just telling us but I imagine they see gamers playing through all the different combinations as part of the (challenging/grinding) fun of a rogue-like.
fallow sonnet
What are the conditions for the Ares and Dionysus duo?
fallow sonnet
Nevermind; I found it hit on the wiki. Thank you.
hearty elbow
Hmm... I really don't like the new (new new) Guan Yu aspect. It feels like poo poo. Everything is slow, all the Hammers are for spin to win.
They gave us back Athena deflect on spin, but they took away the Attack -> Dash Attack cancel
lament coral
dude, its special just does 5 less damage now
nothing else changed
actually, they made attack faster, too
hearty elbow
they added a lot of recovery time between spear throws, and a huge recovery window after attack + dash attack
dry ember
Idk, still seems p good to me
Not the lastest patch but GY wasn't changed last patch so...
hearty elbow
Yeah, i'm watching old vods from release. I'm probably misremembering. womp womp
release of the aspect*
magic dagger
top-tier strats for the asterius miniboss:
-miss with your summon
-stand in front of his charge
now if only hypnos was on duty, I would actually get the dialogue for it
austere epoch
Nice
keen adder
What's everyone choices on the last 3 mirror talents. Is the extra 10% for legendary/duo and extra boons and poms worth over rare/epic ?
hearty elbow
i like taking the rare talent and duo/legendary. i do not think the epic % works additively with the rare %, but someone can correct me if i'm wrong. so it's less good than it seems
magic dagger
failed my first first-run this update, and I don't really see any changes so far
turbid needle
was dual shot deleted?
austere epoch
No it was turned into a duo with Posiden
unkempt pagoda
it's mirage shot now, a duo between poseidon and artemis
hearty elbow
Can you no longer get Kinetic Launcher with Demeter aspect? I think i've done 5 or 6 runs without seeing it, ho hum
turbid needle
then what boon need to get artemis legendary boon?
unkempt pagoda
Chaaron Today at 12:51 AM
it's any 2 of 3 of exit wounds, support fire and hunters mark from memory
vague hearth
Tier lists are fine and all
magic dagger
you can now get spent spirit on your first run
unkempt pagoda
dash
vague hearth
Also you know what's fun on hades aspect
Big spin and fast spin
With sisyphus keepsake
hearty elbow
what's not fun? forgetting to turn off 2x Damage Control when going from Fists -> Excalibur. We're locked in, boys.
celest hedge
on Rama bow does increased special damage boost the spread damage or just the initial cast?
The shared suffering*
hasty garnet
I can't play any sword aspect but Excalibur now. It's ruined the others for me.
hearty elbow
nemesis is still kinda broke
hasty garnet
I unlocked Nemesis but I never played it yet
grand cedar
If you suddenly switch off excalibur, you'll feel like you took off weighted clothing and are now super fast when attackin glol
hearty elbow
i can't tell if it's my favorite or least favorite sword aspect. if i stack aphrodite, the new Hermes sturdy boon, myrmidon bracer, i can kind of just durdle and bored things to death
vague hearth
It would be nice if having the sisyphus keepsake would guarantee a hammer in the first room
It just seems counter-intuitive to nullify part of the keepsake the second you enter the run
magic dagger
What a meme
https://imgur.com/dgkplCY
vague hearth
Pfff
leave me alone demeter I want my boonless run
Oh well
Heightened security is my best friend rn
unkempt pagoda
food rewards? in my hades game? it's more common than you think
vague hearth
Man I love being down two death defiances and proceeding to get the same two options of money and centaur hearts instead of patroclus for three rooms in a row
This game does not want me to do this challenge run
empty robin
Patroclus always evade when the player need him most
vague hearth
I just want to finish a run with no boons
And i finally got the hoarding blade hammer i wanted
But then the game just kinda said
Hey
No
empty robin
F
vague hearth
Guess the run's dead, might as well grab the titan's blood on the way out
magic dagger
why do asterius's splash projectiles hit me twice, every time?
I'm about a mile off to the side, so it's not like his axe hit me
celest hedge
maybe the nova from him landing?
magic dagger
EM3 is inactive, and I'm standing far enough away that it wouldn't matter if it was on. His projectiles are hitting me multiple times.
neon bramble
I think it's because they are continuous projectiles, like the skull ripples.
So when they hit you, they may pass through your hitbox twice
summer lotus
what are the best hammer upgrades for lucifer
infinity chamber so far has been fun
none of the others really shine for me
dry ember
crystal clarity
flat brook
jesus christ. so many useless boons and thats what i gotta choose to purge https://i.imgur.com/9DXevYJ.png
turbid needle
Yuuuuuuuuuuuuup.
empty robin
Since when is Heart Rend useless
turbid needle
Tell me Underworld Customs isn't as bad as Approval Process.
unkempt pagoda
best you can do is hope for another chance to get them again
flat brook
Since when is Heart Rend useless
i meant that i've got many useless boons but my 3 main ones were offered
broken charm
ive got like 3 dash talents and the daedleus hammer for the x3 dash attack for the spear
killed alecto in like 20 seconds 
turbid needle
I see it quite often still I think its just bc demeters pool got bigger
untold vortex
@near lark SGG already read every piece of feedback that gets posted in #hades-feedback so I personally don't see that being necessary imo, interesting idea though
near lark
I mean, I'd certainly hope so, that's what the channel is for, heheh. But you make a good point
worthy adder
Man bow has literally half the dps of hestia rail
with no boons
my best clear time with bow is literally more than twice as slow than my best clear on rail
How do you guys play bow runs because I must be doing something wrong
rain lodge
Is it just me or are all the Aphrodite-Boons basically useless (exept perhaps for her aid which I feel is the strongest of all)?
spring turret
just you
wintry plume
I don't use her that much but any of her weak inflicting boons with that one that makes the weak last longer are good for Privileged Status
lament coral
the plus damage against weak afflicted enemies is totally useless, mhm
spring turret
she gives the highest dmg scaling boons in the game and one of the best status curses in the game in weakening, unhealthy fixation which is probably the most broken legendary in the game, and some of the best duo boon comboes too in smouldering air, low tolerance, heart rend, parting shot. And the aid of course
lament coral
or the extra damage debuff applied to weakened enemies, or extended weak duration, or bloody charm
and don't get me started on her duos: who wants all of their boons to be epic or higher, an extra level from poms and pom slices, or extra poison stacks, pff
oh, and 50% more crit damage against weakened enemies
spring turret
heart rend
lament coral
worthless
cunning urchin
@worthy adder get Twin Shot, spam Dash-Strikes.
worthy adder
Yeah I've been trying to do special focused builds and it isn't working out that well
with chiron
stoic thicket
If you run Chiron try for Sea Storm, that generally works awesome.
lament coral
Chiron is really chewie, you need + special arrows hammer to take off
worthy adder
I think I'll just zag or try cast builds
yeah I didnt' have speical arrow harmor but even so that doesn't add to DPS that much
maybe you ahve to go onhit or something
I am still amazed that it takes 6 seconds to kill skele compared to like 3 on rail
twin shot is how I won my last run I think
lament coral
you have 7 arrows, +4 is over a 50% DPS boost
lament coral
what's the damage of the fully charged arrow shot, 50?
worthy adder
well dash modifiers can improve the attack as well
lament coral
so can special ones
lament coral
though granted, there's no Artemis dash for the special
worthy adder
What the chaos ones can improve dash-special?
I don't think dash special is a thing
worthy adder
oh, well of course
I jsut don't think special boosting is that effectie
There are more buffs for attacks
Twin shot looks really good since its a 2x multiplier but even close range shot looks okay
or piercing volley
Maybe
but piercing volley doesn't work on bosses
I guess perfect shot might be good as well
I don't think 3x shot works on bosses
Maybe chain shot
with 3x
lament coral
what's Piercing Volley?
worthy adder
Armor bonus on special
Yeah looks like twin shot is the cream of the crop here
2x base is pretty great
cunning urchin
There's a well shield?
lament coral
yeah, it prevents Zag from falling in the wells and drowning
empty robin
I've had quite a few run with EM3 on and I'm still not sure what Theseus's attacks while mounted are
cunning urchin
That's pretty cool.
empty robin
And why does a single bomb deals up to 50 damage
cunning urchin
Hidden 5th aspect.
rare kayak
theseus has three attacks
or three ways to damage you
dropping bombs, shooting bullets and running you over
he doesnt actively try to run you over but its easy for it to accidentally happen
he usually drops bombs but sometimes pauses between the pillars and charges to the other opening while firing a lot of bullers
empty robin
But sometimes the bombs drop in the middle of the arena. Why is that?
rare kayak
because he goes through the middle of the arena
and drops bombs randomly while doing so
empty robin
Occasionally?
rare kayak
occasionally yeah
just keep an eye out for the circles, the bombs take a really long time to explode so theyre hard to get hit by if you pay attention
lament coral
EM3 Theseus used to be stupid easy cause he only dropped bombs in the outter circle while riding around
now he drops em all over the place at all times
empty robin
Yeah it's so hard to position yourself with Asterius chasing your ass and Theseus throwing bombs everywhere
rare kayak
thats pretty much the key skill for the fight is managing asterius positioning
i generally like to just stay at the edges of the arena
empty robin
Ranged weapons are way better in this fight than melee
Because of Asterius's beyblade attack
rare kayak
if youre feeling ballsy theres enough iframes to dash in and call and dash out
or aphro call stuns him momentarily
worthy adder
Man just did a bow run with an epic well special and an epic lvl 7 zeus spcial
And I still don't think its that good
still nearly twice as slow as my best rail run
I also had a heroic lvl 2 high voltage to help with AOE
I really think the only way to do a fast bow run must be with doubleshot
or more generally focusing on attacks
lament coral
¯_(ツ)_/¯
worthy adder
Wait im pretty sure thats not correct cause I can clear most of the early stages
by just specialing across the room
do you mean one arrow per enemy?
that I'd believe
lament coral
the first arrow that hits an enemy does lightning damage, the rest of em don't
worthy adder
even with chiron aspect?
lament coral
any bow aspect
worthy adder
hm
lament coral
I came to like Ares special on Chiron but you need Dire Misfortune for it
lament coral
you still get to Doom the entire room off it
worthy adder
Well then I'd take it not on chiron
and then just get up and personal on the final boss if I got dire
I usually seem to get duos in temple
but yeah I feel as if bow maybe just isn't my weapon or something
or at least chiron bow
maybe the way I play since my main metric is speed and I'm only on low heat rn
I remember you use to could dash while specialing
now you can't i take a lot more damage too
Oh, it only triggers 5 times per second according to the wiki
It probably triggers 2-3 times per volly then not just once
lament coral
ah, that'd explain why it works so well with the Chaos shield
since there's more downtime between all the shields hitting enemies
cunning urchin
TFW Bone Hourglass in the Temple of Styx and no Wells of Charon anywhere in sight. 
rare kayak
tfw 3 wells in three chambers and no kiss of styx
thats what ended my first 32 heat run
cunning urchin
Thunder Flourish procs once every 0.2 sec per target. It can proc on multiple enemies, though.
worthy adder
So whats the best boon for bow special?
rare kayak
i personally like deflect
cunning urchin
So it's actually pretty good for non-Chiron volleys for crowds.
worthy adder
For damage
worthy adder
Dire is 5-12 on hit, zeus is 30-60 on hit (but maybe you only proc on a third of the hits)
cunning urchin
Chiron or which bow?
lament coral
hey, there's actually an Ares/Dio duo that makes poison tick faster
worthy adder
half second with max 5 stacks
okay the math on hangover is complicated
demeter isn't that bad for damage tbh, what with a relatively high special mod and maybe t2 boon support via arctic
lament coral
if poison does 7 damage and you have 5 stacks on, that's 35 damage every 0.5 seconds or 70 every second
cunning urchin
If you use Drunken Flourish on Chiron, you'll want to hit them just once with the volley, then use Power Shots for damage.
Then do another volley when stacks drop.
worthy adder
I feel like practically drunken flourish is quite good because you can apply across multiple enemies in room fights and vs the boss you're getting free DPS when he's inviisble
cunning urchin
Every Hangover stack procs 8 times in 4 seconds.
worthy adder
wait can he take damage while invisible?
cunning urchin
No, you're not getting any damage on Hades when he's invisible.
worthy adder
hm shame
cunning urchin
All status curses will be healed immediately when he goes invisible.
rare kayak
yeah its kinda why i hate the wretched shade on bow run
cant get off a proper charged attack too unless i snapshot
tps too fast
worthy adder
you mean wretched sneak?
cunning urchin
You can try Heartbreak Strike + Drunken Flourish for DPS, then use mainly your Heartbreak Strike for damage and apply Hangover to tanky enemies while focusing on others.
rare kayak
i dont pay attention to names lol
lament coral
he's a wretchedly sneaky shade alright
cunning urchin
Then since you're already using Heartbreak Strike, you could get Zeus' Aid + Smoldering Air for more DPS.
rare kayak
god hes so annoying, by far the most annoying boss
cunning urchin
He is dead in seconds with Malphon and Nemesis.
rare kayak
also something ive noticed which is nice is that wringers only attack you one at a time
probably to prevent chaingrabs
worthy adder
hmm
rare kayak
if you get right next to two wringers one will stay still
worthy adder
whats that duo boon that increases max poison?
cunning urchin
You'd still want to apply Hangover only once since that will put you at 7 stacks. So another volley will add very little damage.
worthy adder
I thought that was the one that tics faster
rare kayak
thats ares dio
worthy adder
no nvm im confused
rare kayak
0.35 per tick instead of 0.5s
cunning urchin
I haven't done the math on that one. Should be good, though.
rare kayak
its pretty good if you have a good way of applying large stacks of poison at once
or consistently applying poison
if you're relying on say, rail special with poison for some reason good luck though
worthy adder
Does doom scale with anything?
Like if you have a doom attack and then you have well attack bonus?
rare kayak
uhh i think its affected by privi status
coral frost
Heya, i just joined the discord, i wanted to ask if anyone thinks the "aiming" reticule, like when someone is aiming at you is unclear on the timing
cunning urchin
Reticle could indeed be better.
rare kayak
the only problem i have with it is it doesnt show the direction youre being shot from
cunning urchin
That, too.
rare kayak
so sometimes i end up dashing into the other two arrows of a three arrow volley
random hull
Doom is affected by anything increasing damage without any further specification. Privileged Status and Family Favorite both do it. Among boons, examples are Billowing Strength and Ravenous Will.
rare kayak
against theseus it works perfectly fine for me though
coral frost
In a fast paced game like Hades, i find it hard to time my dodge with the "being aimed at" projectile, since it only faintly glows when the projectile is fired at you
worthy adder
Same for things like zues bolts or strikes I assume
coral frost
but maybe i just need to play it more to feel more the timing
worthy adder
They're not considered from the source they were procced from
cunning urchin
I've played for . . . apparently 333 hours, and I still think the reticle could be better. Especially when multiple are aiming at me, it's just kinda useless for me.
Except I know that somewhere on the map are Strongbows.
So that's something, I guess.
worthy adder
also an unrelated question: do chaos and erebus rooms count as a room for the purpose of the length of a underworld region?
cunning urchin
They're usually the first I hunt down, anyway. I've improved a lot at spotting them.
They count, yes.
worthy adder
if i take it am I eschewing a standand room reword?
cunning urchin
Depends. If you're taking one before the final shop before a boss, it adds a chamber.
If that's still possible. Maybe they've adjusted things so it isn't.
coral frost
Also i think the reticule could be made better, timing wise, since there's a boon that specifically rewards precise dodging
queen narwhal
ancient goblet
Have some of you digged on mirror of night and have check if there is some best build or anything ?
green plover
I think you should delete that image.
rare kayak
that sure is rude
green plover
@queen narwhal can you please delete that image?
rare kayak
ok
errant narwhal
please dont try to bypass the swear filter with images! thank you for deleting the image.
hexed fable
anyone here do any runs with the special only or semi only on the new rail aspect?
I am like racking my brain around some builds with it
fathom crescent
Hi everyone I have been trying to build around flood shot (poseidon cast) by improving it with mirage shot (artemis x poseidon : ||double cast||), curse of drowning (arès x poseidon : ||transform the cast into a pulse around you||) and blizzard shot (demeter x poseidon : ||cast pierce foes and release blizzard aoe while moving||) for a few run but I couldn't get both blizzard shot and Curse of Drowning do you know if they are compatible ?
for the technique of the rail's ||lucifer|| aspect you could go for artemis, it deals a lot of base damage and is too slow to apply a lot of status
hexed fable
For your cast question I know a few of those are incompatible
well wait a min
each of them need flood shot
It might be an issue of one taking priority over the other
worthy adder
using chill on hades is bull
never doing that again, throws the timings for the swings completely off
Do the hitboxes last longer or something idk whats going on
Oh are we supposed to use spoilers in this channel? I wasn't aware
fathom crescent
I don't know, I put the spoiler in case of someone didn't wanted to get spoiled the effect
but I don't think that's a rule
hexed fable
better safe than sorry
fathom crescent
I'll do another couple of attempts but yeah I think that taking one may lock the other one (if not the synergy would be weird).
About the chill on bosses you only need to get used to it and you may dodge less but they will hit less so it's kinda balanced anyway
For the rail special I'm sorry but I don't see a lot of thing.
Boons : Stacking status seems bad on special since it can't apply them quickly so Artemis seems good for big crits, Aphrodite, Poseidon or Athena may be good too
Special Hammers : Triple Bomb (||3 specials in a row||) , Hazard Bomb ||+150% damage and larger area but also hit you|| or Cluster Bomb (||-30% damage but 5 bomb at once||) seems amazing (no idea on how Rocket Bomb may work though).
and if you go for crit or athena on special you may look after Deadly Reversal (Athena x Artemis : ||+20% crit for 2s after deflecting||) or Hearth Rend (Aphrodite x Artemis : ||crit deals 50% more damage||)
worthy adder
does hazard bomb trigger things like athena's reflect or revenges?
hexed fable
Yeah I would've liked different special options too
unless they do and I haven't found them
maybe faster ticks on the damage, and large aoe
random hull
Cluster Bomb + Rocket Bomb ||results in a five shot fan of rockets||. It is insanely effective with Heartbreak Flourish in particular. At that point you will probably never use the regular fire anymore. It should be incompatible with the fourth aspect.
stoic thicket
Before I do something stupid: Hestia does not have a dash-strike, right?
random hull
It does work with Hunter Dash last time I tried.
I assume it works with Chaos' Lunge boons too.
A bunch of patches came in the meantime, so take it with a grain of salt.
cunning urchin
Only rail 4 doesn't have a Dash-Strike.
Only 1 of the 2 shots from the Dash-Strike will be the empowered shot.
lost cairn
What would be the optimal combo with Arthur? Can I get away with dash strike spam?
Or i should do the sword combo but with dash animation cancels?
dry ember
Optimal seems to be the sword combo yeah
At least that's how people get through Mega High Heat
lost cairn
Problem is I dash through mobs before the final big chop, and miss the hit mostly 😮
dry ember
Which will work for lower heat, too, I'm sure. There is a vid linked in the document pinned in #h1-high-heat-strategies for a 40+ heat run, if you want to take a peek.
lost cairn
It's hard
dry ember
Yeah it's hard. I use Nemesis more often
lost cairn
Oh for sure. But gotta try something else every once in a while
dry ember
But if you want some gameplay footage, fwiw, you know where to find it
Fsir enough haha
lost cairn
Btw it's hillarious with the projectile slow
robust shale
what is a good high dmg build for varatha? I always struggle with not putting out enough damage
mighty flare
anything with multi hit works with the spear.
robust shale
so like hangover?
mighty flare
Zeus and Dio will probabaly be you main attack
your special should be something to aid that. like weak or something
aphro is always a good choice
robust shale
thank! i will try it out
mighty flare
if you wanna kill things i suggest the weak and poison build. then proceed to take attack speed if possible. dont forget to take privileged status if you already unlocked it. fast weapons are with multi hit debuff
cunning urchin
Hangover works best on Call.
Just for that alone I avoid it on Attack, Special, and Dash.
mighty flare
why not put weak on attack. and poison on special for fast hits? if you bring Priviliged then that is already like a 200%+ main attack boost by the end.
rare kayak
poison doesnt last as long as weak and special takes a bit longer to use than attack
mighty flare
idk? it worked for me using things like the spear, fist, and the chiron bow
grand cedar
If you're relying on something to proc privileged, it doesn't make sense to have it on Call.
And if you're using weak x hangover, hangover should go on the multi-hit action.
rare kayak
it depends on which weapon ur using but i thought we were talking about spear
putting hangover on fist special is a different beast than hangover on spear special
grand cedar
So for fist, hangover works better on attack. Bow, hangover on special. Spear, hangover on attack.
cunning urchin
Drunken Strike is very poor on Malphon. It works alright vs mobs, but you're seriously lacking damage vs bosses.
grand cedar
O my bad. I thought it was about bow. Lol
rare kayak
hangover on fist attack is a bit suspect
the damage is lacking without serious duo support
i agree call is probably a better option just for having a free space on attack
cunning urchin
It's also circular reasoning. You can use something else to proc Privileged Status, you don't need Hangover for that. But Dionysus' Aid is the best call for AOE damage.
rare kayak
dash is fine too
grand cedar
You'd use weak on fist attack over hangover fist?
rare kayak
yes
cunning urchin
Absolutely.
rare kayak
aphro’s multiplier on attack is bonkers
grand cedar
Shrugs, to each their own own I guess.
wind vale
hangover on attack, weak on special seems best
hollow pond
consider adding a bit of Demeter to your Dionysus
cunning urchin
But the best Attack boons for Malphon are Lightning Strike, Curse of Agony, and Divine Strike.
rare kayak
ice wine build is always fun but its tiring
i like demeter’s too honestly but its a tossup between attack and special
grand cedar
If I'm using privileged, I wouldn't want to rely on call for thet. Obviously, if you can proc privileged status with something else, then hangover is fine on call.
cunning urchin
Drunken Strike on Malphon caps your stacks too fast on bosses and then your next hits will do no extra damage.
rare kayak
drunken strike is basically base attack past your five hits yeah
cunning urchin
I'm saying don't rely on Hangover for Privileged Status in the first place. You can put something else on your special if you want to proc that.
Or on your dash.
That way you still get the big AOE damage from Dionysus' Aid.
grand cedar
You wouldn't be using attack after you cap hangover in this setup b
cunning urchin
Depending on how the run goes, I'd take Drunken Flourish on Varatha sometimes, too.
But I very much prefer Hangover on Call.
cunning urchin
Malphon always uses Attacks.
rare kayak
special has messy endlag situations
robust shale
is it true that doom doesn't do as well on varatha?
cunning urchin
Even Talos Cast builds and Demeter Special builds rely a lot on Attacks.
grand cedar
Cause if that's the build that's been handed to me lol I'd rather not use attack.
rare kayak
i think doom does fine on spear
grand cedar
I do see that y'all play this weapon extremely different from me so lol that's probably why. Haha
cunning urchin
Curse of Pain and Drunken Flourish generally do pretty well on Varatha.
rare kayak
i prefer aphro or demeter special on spear personally because it lasts longer
i dont use special often
cunning urchin
Well, my options on 40+ are more limited. So keep that in mind. It's definitely not something that can't work.
mighty flare
@cunning urchin Welp thanks to your tips on dash iframes. I finally did it. Finally killed the final boss for the first time on my 40th run.
rare kayak
or zeus special if i get chain skewer
cunning urchin
I do like variety.
rare kayak
chain skewer zeus is very fun
robust shale
yes, i agree, but the damages drops very fast when you are facing one singular boss tho
it is trade off for sure
grand cedar
Lol this isn't the heat channel. So I'm still giving input from a sub20, no upgrade perspective.
rare kayak
yeah but like i said i dont tend to use special often
i mean in general you dont have to take the first attack boon handed to you
grand cedar
Hell a lot of these preferences end up not being usable cause I play with the no choice heat haha
rare kayak
like you dont have to run drunken strike
robust shale
i tend spam dash using the spear like I use the blade, and ends up missing the target
rare kayak
and preferably you probably dont wanna run drunken strike
if at all possible
because its basically just base attack once you hit five stacks
grand cedar
I'd prefer Demeter strike over hangover strike. But rng gods and all
rare kayak
you cant say youre providing a perspective from sub 20 heat then say you think drunken strike is ok because youre forced to take it
we’re talking about drunken strike on fists and whether its good
grand cedar
I'm not sure I understand your position.
rare kayak
like if youre forced to take drunken strike then youre definitely gonna have to roll with it
cunning urchin
@mighty flare congratulations!
grand cedar
You're collapsing my comments and misinterpreting my position.
rare kayak
you really underestimate dash iframes until you take that one zeus boon with lightning
grand cedar
I think drunken strike is ok. I can be forced to pick a boon and not think it's okay.
In this case I think it's okay. And I would take drunken strike over the weak one.
rare kayak
seeing near miss pop up that much on hades fight is very enlightening