Back to the shelf.
#h1-builds-and-combat
stoic thicket
modest urchin
is hades aspect nerfed? the wording in the patch makes it sound like it's better now
stoic thicket
Between the last two patches it's max range spin was huge. Now it's just bigger at low charge.
stoic thicket
Don't know if it's better or worse but the huge chonks were fun. A ton of fun.
modest urchin
oh i see what you mean
radiant swallow
Whenever I play malphon I just try to stack dodge chance and hermes every time I get
serene nexus
For combat in general. Is it frowned upon to turn on god mode if you don't want to rerun again and again due to always dying at the final boss?
radiant swallow
Also rip hades aspect spear large nerf is sad
Has anyone played with Achilles spear yet?
It got buffed so much
magic dagger
For combat in general. Is it frowned upon to turn on god mode if you don't want to rerun again and again due to always dying at the final boss?
@serene nexus no, god mode is to make the game more accessible to you, if you need/want it
serene nexus
All of the victory posting is without godmode so I kinda get the feeling that if you 'really' want to be considered good at the game you leave it off.
Sort of like FPS where going at the easiest difficulty is considered being a wuss lol
radiant swallow
You can use godmode to practice against enemies that give you difficulty
You should play at whatever difficulty you have fun with
cunning urchin
What are you guys talking about? Hades Aspect's spin attack is still buffed at MAX. It's also wider now at low charge.
serene nexus
I guess I'll leave it on. It's a shame that you can't turn it back down. But I guess if I choose between burning out with it on and burning out with it off, I'll take leaving it on so I can get stuff from it
cunning urchin
There's been no nerf. The min charge was buffed.
If you have more fun with God Mode on, just use it. 
stoic thicket
I just tried it against Skelly, the max charge range was significantly smaller than yesterday.
serene nexus
Hmmm. I'm trying to optimize my blood usage right now. Any suggestions on a priority list of what which aspects benefit from blood the most?
magic dagger
zag sword is the best investment 
cunning urchin
Max charge was the same in the last patch. It's the scaling that's been improved, so that the min charge is wider. Even says so in the patch notes.
radiant swallow
Zag sword with hermes boons go
cunning urchin
Zagreus Aspects all cost 5 Titan Blood to max out. The other aspects all cost 15~16 Titan Blood.
When you use Stygian Soul, the Aspects of Poseidon and Hera work exactly the same at Lv.1 as they do at Lv.5.
magic dagger
Poseidon gets bonus cast damage per level
cunning urchin
But if you're not having fun with them, that's Titan Blood spent on something you might not use more than a couple times.
Oh right.
But it still works great at Lv.1 for a True Shot build with Infernal Soul.
Haven't used the aspect in awhile lol.
stoic thicket
I was certain at my test earlier that the Hades max charge range is now the same as for the other two aspects. I'll need to check it again tonight but it looked much smaller than yesterday.
radiant swallow
The max charge felt a little bit smaller, but I don't think it's too important
Has anyone had any success with achilles spear yet?
stoic thicket
I might actually been mistaken. Thanks for the screenies.
If I am mistaken then Hades is back on the menu.
mighty ermine
even if it were to be nerfed at max size a little, it wouldn't change much honestly
it's still just good
radiant swallow
^
I wish achilles aspect increased the charge speed of a spin, honestly
Would make the super fast combat it promotes feel more fluid
magic dagger
but would it really be worth our time if we couldn't hit the entire room with a single Hades spin?
grand gust
excalibur worth unlocking?
magic dagger
excalibur worth unlocking?
@grand gust yes
mighty ermine
yes because it was worth your time even before the recent buff
grand gust
okie thx friends
magic dagger
it's very powerful, and has a prophecy attached to it
cunning urchin
@radiant swallow I don't think anyone has done a serious attempt at 40+ with Achilles Aspect yet if that's what you mean.
Plenty of success up to 32 heat.
I think all of the aspects have done everything up to 32 pretty often.
Maybe not the Zagreus Aspect of Aegis because no one was really interested in that due to Chaos Aspect and Zeus Aspect being so much stronger.
magic dagger
have we actually seen 32 heat Zoom runs?
cunning urchin
Haven't you done that? I just assumed you did.
magic dagger
not yet
mighty ermine
be the 32 zoom run you wish to see 
cunning urchin
^
magic dagger
I've been bashing my head against RI4 choiceless Peach runs
cunning urchin
It's a RI1 run really lol.
magic dagger
mine aren't
magic dagger
I'll do it as intended if I get desperate on Saturday
cobalt wind
Bruh what are the requirements for Fully Loaded? the artemis legendary boon
Im going insane
pine lion
I see that the wiki isn't updated, is there a place to find what the new duo boons do and what their requirements are? If this is the wrong channel my bad, please just point me in the right direction.
vague hearth
I believe two of three boons are required
I remember two of them were exit wounds and support fire
Oh hey!
I just saw the zag shield change!
Nice
austere epoch
Previously it was Duel Shot and Exit Wounds but I dont know now because Duel was changed to a duo
cobalt wind
yeah, that what was on the wiki and just recently found out it was outdated lol
cunning urchin
Any 2 tier 2 boons now, I think? I know it's supposedly a lot easier to get it now.
untold vortex
it's any 2 of 3 of exit wounds, support fire and hunters mark from memory
fringe torrent
with new zag shield, i have tried it again and reminded myself how terrible the attack is on the shield lol. That push basically means you don't get to attack more than once
magic dagger
bull rush and dash strike
radiant swallow
Legendaries feel so much worse in this patch, with duo boons being more common, and it being harder to get a bunch of one god 😦
magic dagger
with the shield, you have to chase your enemies, but you also can chase your enemies
vague hearth
dash strike to strike tends to work for me
it chains pretty consistently for me
and if you get the double-hit you don't need to chase
mighty ermine
yeah, dash-strike to either a regular strike or bullrush is a good weave to pull generally
vague hearth
or you go poseidon attack and double down on the chasing part
mighty ermine
and yeah, double hit hammer is very good for new zag shield
fringe torrent
double hit is godly if you hit it, sure
vague hearth
I know what I'm trying now
Which is nice because I really like shield's attack over its special
mighty ermine
ideally i'd want dashing wallop and double hit hammer that i still forget the name of
vague hearth
so two of the aspects felt underwhelming for me
fringe torrent
i took the hammer that empowers attacks after special
but unless you throw it point blank you cannot attack until its back lmao
vague hearth
Yeah, that's why I tend to neglect shield special
I like fast and aggressive builds
with the exception of lightning support rail because how could you not love that
having to wait sucks
serene nexus
Hmm... thinking about choosing between upgrading Excalibur and Lucifer... or some other aspect.
For Context, I have Chaos, Zag Sword, Hestia, Nemesis, Demeter aspects maxed. Not sure what to go for next.
fringe torrent
with the exception of lightning support rail because how could you not love that
@vague hearth Wine supersoaker is better, change my mind
vague hearth
hm
serene nexus
is a member of the cult of Hestia
vague hearth
Enlighten me
oh right
hestia shotgun rush is fun too
I still miss the og shotgun hammer
fringe torrent
Hestia is the reload one right?
vague hearth
it scaled way too much with posiedon attack
is it?
oh right
the one I keep forgetting about unless I have no titan blood
I've wanted to try it for ages
Also what's the supersoaker build
vague hearth
ah yess
fringe torrent
dio-aphro or dio-ares alone are enough to kill everything
vague hearth
the "you are drunk now" build
I think I actually did that one without knowing it was a thing
And you know what?
You're right
That's a really fun build too
fringe torrent
i'd like to check out poseidon attack lucifer too
I wanna see if wall slam triggers as fast as your attack and if the damage is as high as with other weapons
it might result in something beautiful
vague hearth
that with the wall slam explosion
fringe torrent
oh my
vague hearth
could be actually insane
fringe torrent
that's it, im forcing this build right now
mighty ermine
i don't think it's going to be nearly as good as you're anticipating
but still could be fun
vague hearth
Beo shield is interesting with zeus cast
serene nexus
I'd imagine Aphro cast might be good with Beo
vague hearth
namely because the cast now works with high voltage and can get to an insane size
fringe torrent
how do you even play with beo
so damn SLOW
serene nexus
Dash Canceling
vague hearth
getting as much cast as possible helps
I've heard that full demeter builds work wonders with beo shield
mighty ermine
namely because the cast now works with high voltage and can get to an insane size
👀
fringe torrent
damn it poseidon
https://i.imgur.com/ZaKXC8J.png
mighty ermine
look on the bright side: higher rarity poseidon attacks are still super weak anyway
vague hearth
and anyway
if it works with wall slam explosion
it being common will mean nothing
but yeah
fringe torrent
it barely pushes them... lol
vague hearth
f
fringe torrent
laser doesn't stagger so they just keep moving
vague hearth
ahh damn
and you couldn't use it with the special because the wall slam burst would detonate the hellfire
actually
that could work
fringe torrent
If they don't move it's REALLY good but most enemies do move
mighty ermine
i tried to temper your expectations lol
fringe torrent
if i get poseidon cast and dash, basically get them up against the wall by other means, and blast them with the supersoaker they melt
but it's not easy obviously
mighty ermine
yeah, it's more situational
until or unless you get sea storm
and unlock super soaker's true potential
fringe torrent
boss damage is going to suck lol
vague hearth
One build I really like flurry jab with demeter attack and another debuff on special
preferably weak
fringe torrent
lmao Tisiphone just baaaaaarely moves by the supersoaker. I hate it, it gives a slight hope of actually doing wall slam damage
fringe torrent
Oh wait, i can still turn my mediocre push build into superior zeus build
just get poseidon-zeus duo and gg
mighty ermine
i said as much earlier, yes
fringe torrent
oh i missed it
worthy adder
Wow... hestia is actually insanely fast
Okay hestia is def the fastest
you can do it in 3 shots
Jesus
I'm just testing which weapons base is the strongest to try to decide what ot buy next using titan's blood
worthy adder
on shield?
worthy adder
well, its failing the "kill skelly" test pretty hard
Btw does the hestia's empowered shot scale with boons
like if you had level one (+50 on empowerd) and +100% damage boon would you do an additional 100?
worthy adder
honestly I try to optimize for boss DPS not room dps because I take stubborn instead of defiance
worthy adder
although evne so I wouldn't care about brimstones... they're not that painful are they? Do you run butterfly?
I haven't got enough heat to worry about dying/timing out in the first two areas at all
worthy adder
well shield dash is probably one of the better dashes in terms of hitbox and boon/hammer support
i feel like the attack and dash are mostly supplementary for me i never try to stack a build on it
vague hearth
it tends to be the opposite for me
worthy adder
yeah I gues the fact that shield is so good on hades means you can invest more resource in room clearing
and hades doesn't scale as well with heat as rooms do
fringe torrent
hm... infinite ammo hammer might just save supersoaker build somewhat
worthy adder
I assume you play on high heat? I'm not even past 5 xP
worthy adder
What rail do you use
worthy adder
meh?
vague hearth
I like it for the zeus attack support fire
worthy adder
you can usually fold the reload time into dodging time though
it doesn't seem to actually contribute that much to dps
exception being spread shot
I'm running eris rn
vague hearth
hestia's nuts
worthy adder
like twice as fast as the next fastest weapon
I want to know whether it scales though
like if the bonus damage is added on the end or what
fringe torrent
i want both lmao https://i.imgur.com/s7Hfxj5.png
cunning urchin
Splitting Bolt is harder to get than Sea Storm. Sea Storm will probably do more for you.
If you reroll, maybe he'll just offer one and make it easier for you. 
fringe torrent
I couldn't not take Sea Storm right before EM3 fight
cunning urchin
Yeah, that makes sense.
toxic wolf
anyone have strong opinions of high confidence vs thick skin? I mean I feel like high confidence is objectively better the more skilled you are but -50 health from game start is a lot
rare kayak
id go thick skin mostly because high confidence gets harder to maintain as time goes on
well basically if youre putting high confidence to good use you probably dont need it
is the argument
fringe torrent
use high confidence if you have high confidence, pretty simple
rare kayak
and if ur really looking for strong damage in early game you can always use shackl
cunning urchin
High Confidence with Cursed Slash on Nemesis is decent.
hollow pond
I use twin fists and lightning with a gamepad, my hand is sore but I get results
rare kayak
dont even talk to me about cursed slash
i still have trauma from accidentally getting that from anvil during excalibur run
fringe torrent
oops
cunning urchin
Why is your hand sore?
fringe torrent
High Confidence is okay with Guan Yu as well since you are already on low hp so why not
cunning urchin
You can just hold down the Attack button.
hollow pond
I also use dodge-attack buffs, speed buffs, I'm attacking and dodging and attacking and dodging all day every day with lightning shooting everywhere, it's a blast but I regret everything
rare kayak
i wish rail4 had homing fire as a hammer upgrade
cunning urchin
lol
rare kayak
but i wanna see curvy beam
cunning urchin
lol
lost cairn
With controller autoaim I can't hit the bombs
rare kayak
curvy beam looks better than straight beam, its a scientific fact
lost cairn
Without auto aim I can't hit anything
cunning urchin
What bombs?
rare kayak
never used controller so i cant help you there but just thinking about it it sounds like a nightmare
rail special
hollow pond
I learned around 30 hours in that the right stick can control the reticle, so it may take a bit of practice
rare kayak
speaking of hellfire bombs i only recently found out their pulses apply status
ares special on lucy is pretty good
hollow pond
or was it the left
either way, hold down the button, use one of those sticks, and practice
lost cairn
Yeah, Athena bomb is nice, deflects all the time
cunning urchin
I still haven't put any Titan Blood into rail 4. Got Nemesis to Lv.5 finally, though.
rare kayak
i mostly use zag aspects for everything
lost cairn
@hollow pond the problem is not aiming the special. the problem is you need to hit it with laser to explode 🙂
rare kayak
got into the habit when i was clearing the hammer prophecies
never really got out of it
cunning urchin
I think the next one is probably Hestia.
lost cairn
Thats the upgrade on it, hellfire blast damage
rare kayak
personally i let the enemies explode it
since i fire it right next to them i might as well focus laser on enemies
lost cairn
Sure, but it feels the optimal way to play it is to blast the bombs
rare kayak
the bombs also stagger though
not sure if they go through armor
but if it did thats pretty useful
rare kayak
yeah im too poor to afford a controller so i dont know how the schemes work
controller scheme
cunning urchin
Have you tried not dashing on top of magma? :hypnos:
fringe torrent
i bought the controller and gave up on it lol
rare kayak
well you see the thing is lava kills you so maybe try avoiding hat
vague hearth
I have the dash to mouse thing taken off
hollow pond
since I don't have that loadout, I can only theorycraft, have you considered dodging while using the bomb + laser? I think you can do multiple commands at once with it, I know I can reload while launching a bomb and moving at the same time so...this may just be a skill thing, on the controller
vague hearth
it's not bad once you get used to it
Yes I still dash into lava a lot but I've learned to accept it
lost cairn
I try to play both. Aiming is better with mouse, everything else is controller
vague hearth
Yeah I get what you mean
fringe torrent
i did get used to it and ability to move at a precise angle is really nice. however, aiming is REALLY bad
hollow pond
all I know is, I clear faster on controller at the cost of my right hand suffering eternal cramps
lost cairn
Would love to have seperate auto aim toggle for mouse and controller though
fringe torrent
the auto-aim crutch helps and hinders you at the same time
hollow pond
sometimes you gotta aim, sometimes you gotta spray and pray, it depends on the moment to moment and what hammer enhancements you have
lost cairn
I'll try to turn off autoaim on controller and play with the sensitivity
cunning urchin
Malphon + Epic Greatest Reflex can hurt a lot on pad honestly lol. I need a break after two runs with that.
lost cairn
The worst thing is that I can't do a Perfect Catch with mouse
Controller: All the time
cunning urchin
That sounds like your mouse has more input lag.
fringe torrent
oh yes perfect catch 😄 i keep controller nearby just for fishing
lost cairn
No, you have to press the keyboard use button to fish 🙂
rare kayak
it catches too
cunning urchin
Well, your keyboard then.
rare kayak
since my finger is there
lost cairn
My brain does
rare kayak
might as well let it stay there
lost cairn
Just had the brilliant idea to switch to controller when I fish 
rare kayak
try uhhh
fringe torrent
when i try to catch i behave in a really strange way, before pressing the key i actually pull away from it, doesnt happen on a controller
cunning urchin
It's just a matter of practice, anyway.
fringe torrent
i can only perfect catch on a keyboard when it's the 4th bob because the timing is predictable
but i absolutely cannot react to it, way too slow
rare kayak
i can do it as long as its not the first
takes practice though
still havent caught chaos rare and aspho rare
lost cairn
They buffed the chaos fish spawn rate
rare kayak
yeah but they severely nerfed the rewards
lost cairn
had once since the buff 🙂 before that I had my fist when I had a vendor pool with fish item and Chaos gate in the same room 😄
main osprey
and I still can't get anything except a || Projelly ||
lost cairn
The octo-thing doesn't give you blood now?
rare kayak
i managed to scam four fishes from chaos room before they patched it which was nice
its darkness
main osprey
They all give darkness now
rare kayak
all chaos fish five darkness
lost cairn
damn that's harsh
main osprey
100/250/500 iirc?
rare kayak
which is a pretty severe downgrade
lost cairn
This is terrible
fringe torrent
i remember getting a blood from chaos fish and getting really excited
lost cairn
Projelly is the perfect catch I think
fringe torrent
after the patch i got 250 darkness and cried in the corner
main osprey
Well, yeah that
rare kayak
perfect gave ambrosia
main osprey
Not quite
rare kayak
its a manta ray
lost cairn
Well, I only had fish there two times, both perfect catch and both projelly, so what do I know
rare kayak
my bad i meant the highest tier fish
main osprey
Ye
rare kayak
which is some kinda manta ray
gives ambrosia
projelly is the rare and gives blood
and mati is the common and gives diamond
vague hearth
wait, what's a perfect catch?
rare kayak
but now its all darkness
main osprey
When you time the catch just right
rare kayak
some kinda manta ray, look it up on wiki
main osprey
It'll say perfect
lost cairn
literally darkness
rare kayak
dont remember the name
vague hearth
yeah
lost cairn
Don't you feel it's a waste that you can only get that Poseidon fish boon once in a save file?
fringe torrent
it's 0.3 seconds iirc
main osprey
You can get it more than that
fringe torrent
human's avg reaction is 150-300 ms
main osprey
You just need to get the pre-reqs
vague hearth
What are the pre-reqs?
main osprey
The random assortment of stuff (at least once) and the one that boosts rewards
Blanking on the names
lost cairn
iiiiinteresting
main osprey
Yeah that
lost cairn
Sunken Treasure the other
main osprey
Yup
lost cairn
I just didn't have luck with it then
main osprey
Get both of those, you can get the fishing boon
vague hearth
I'll keep that in mind
I'm trying to get a screenshot of zag fishing while thanatos talks to him
That's a thing you can do
lost cairn
Poor guy
vague hearth
If you charm theseus with EM3 he gets stuck on a pillar
lost cairn
Does he have extra animation?
vague hearth
Worth mentioning that it also leads to a sound playing in every room transition
It's not intended
main osprey
That sounds like a bug xD
vague hearth
It is
main osprey
Lol
lost cairn
Ah ok Hades has some nice moves while charmed
vague hearth
I reported it and asked SGG to get the man some driving lessons
vague hearth
Mostly for his road rage tho
main osprey
Anyway, I shall once again fade away ^.^ It's late and I need sleep xD
toxic wolf
I just had a really, really interesting run going, it was um, high confidence, cursed blade, flurry slash, doom on attack, only had about 120 health. I was basically a very very odd glass cannon but it was very fun to play and I died in the most shameful way possible
theseus chariot mortar
vague hearth
F
toxic wolf
because apparently getting hit by that does 54 damage
toxic wolf
I very nearly died dashing into it from behind a few times lmao
(the chariot I mean)
I'm definitely gonna try for that build again some time though, it was surprisingly extremely effective
I'd normally never go for Doom on stygius it seems like a waste of stygius's attack speed, though it kind of makes up for it if you get uh...can't recall if it's dire misfortune or impending doom
whichever of those two makes doom stack
lost cairn
Dire Misfortune
rare kayak
the mortars hurt him if hes charmed
i think
maybe
anyone else forget what non em theseus is like
ive been playing em theseus for so long
lost cairn
I still play normal. He has an efffffing SHIELD
rare kayak
shield is nothing
lost cairn
I guess. Just annoying
toxic wolf
non em shield is a bit boring for me it's just kinda...'wait for spear throw, dodge, run up and get infinite backstabs'
em theseus is a little much tho
rare kayak
appreciate the spin move theseus has but its nothing after fighting redacted
em kinda feels more like its testing your spacing
if you consistently stay behind him you cant get hit
cunning urchin
Well, it teaches you to evade that move—or to take it to the face and survive anyway because you just built for massive DPS.
rare kayak
or to push for athena legendary every time
heh
but yeah em theseus isnt so bad, lead the bull away from him then just constantly stay behind him when bull is dead
although a bit harder in execution
lost cairn
On my previous problem for hitting the Lucifer bomb with laser, I've found the ultimate solution: Poseidon cast 😄
rare kayak
using casts 
lost cairn
I love casts
rare kayak
i always forget about them
except on bosses because they have indicators
well not true i also use them in asphodel
to find enemies
just fire it out and it curves towards them
lost cairn
Before Stygian Soul it was annoying to use
turbid needle
absolutely GOAT build I just found- ||Guan Yu|| spear with Divine Strike and Quick Spin (definitely recommend Massive Spin as well) as its base is absolutely unstoppable. Constantly dashing into charge-ups and moving forward along with your spin allows you to protect yourself from many attacks as well as heal any damage you do take. Might get tiring on your thumb though.
worthy adder
Man as I thought... hestia is pretty good
cunning urchin
Yeah, Divine Strike on Guan Yu is pretty good.
lost cairn
Any aspect where Divine Strike is bad?
I'm trying it on Lucifer beam now. It's the most chill run ever I just deflect everything
cunning urchin
Probably not that great on bow.
worthy adder
prefer it on dash
since dash is good for utility, save one of the high dps boons for your attack imo
lost cairn
I love on dash, but I think I overused it. Feels a bit cheesy at this time for me
worthy adder
I mean, you can't always get it on dash and I think having one does make fights a lot easier
lost cairn
I'm only on 3 heat tho, I guess it could be mandatory on higher heat
cunning urchin
Divine Strike is pretty strong on any attack, especially with Deadly Reversal.
worthy adder
If I had deadly reversal I'd rather my dash be the deflect and have weak on attack
tho
lost cairn
Yeeeeah too good even 😛
worthy adder
weak + crits feels pretty awesome
if you get it via nemesis sword thats pretty good too
cunning urchin
But that requires boons from three gods.
lost cairn
Aphro attack, Athena dash and Artemis is crazy if you have the two duos
cunning urchin
Divine Strike does the same damage as Frost Strike.
cunning urchin
And you can put Hunter Dash on it for a lot more damage.
worthy adder
mm good to know
hunter dash, divine strike, + deadly reversal probably is the best 2 boon + duo combo then?
cunning urchin
Divine Strike + Hunter Dash opens up Deadly Reversal, Support Fire, and Brilliant Riposte.
spring turret
Frost is better as a priv status enabler though
cunning urchin
I wouldn't call anything best.
spring turret
Divine strike with hunter is a classic though, always a good time
worthy adder
whats that t2 athena status
worthy adder
yeah I feel like i take that super often
cunning urchin
Divine Strike also deflects much more reliably than Divine Dash on at least Malphon.
lost cairn
How does that work? You get backstab effect however you cast?
lost cairn
Or you can get backstab on casts
spring turret
i tried it on crush shot and got up to 3k dmg per cast
lost cairn
I wasn't sure casts can do backstab by default
cunning urchin
Casts can't normally backstab.
lost cairn
So with parting you have to hit them from behind, or you can get the effect from front even?
spring turret
I hated the concept at first because it seemed jarring, but i love it so much now
lost cairn
Well it's not obvious
spring turret
it sounds plain and boring but its so powerful
lost cairn
"Your Cast gains any bonuses you have for striking foes from behind." this is the text
spring turret
yeah it makes it seem that it just applies even on front
worthy adder
yeah to me that scans as casts always gain backstab bonuses
lost cairn
I mean it wasn't obivious for me lol
spring turret
should just say ur cast can now backstab
worthy adder
good to know
spring turret
and any backstab effects are applied to it
worthy adder
Has someone #feedbacked that
worthy adder
what? its turned up like in a third of my runs
spring turret
Well dedicated a build to it
lost cairn
Yeah I had it a lot too
worthy adder
although I very frequently go deflect and weak
spring turret
its fairly common
worthy adder
I'll use keepsakes to get them
spring turret
considering the large pool of boons that are prereqs for it
Try it with crush shot on poseidon sword
and go for blinding flash, shadow slash, blown kiss and chaos backstab boons
worthy adder
ahh I would but im trying to use my blood judiciously and sword already has two good candidates at lvl 1
worthy adder
Yeah I will, I'm waiting in anticipation xP
rare kayak
i run zeus a lot now
worthy adder
Does anyone else do thjs? I always play the bonus gems weapon so I try to have at least one decked out aspect of each weapon
spring turret
worthy adder
I'm not finding a whole lot of success on seus
rare kayak
yeah i maxed out zag aspect for every weapon first
rare kayak
under the assumption that i need to run zagspects in order to complete prophecies
worthy adder
Thats not quite the truth but will get you the aspects
lost cairn
My biggest revelation was that you only need 5 blood to max Zag aspects lol
Game could be a bit more obvious on that
rare kayak
i mean zagspects help for doing the hammer prophecies
spring turret
Most of them are pretty basic increases, bow and rail ones are probably the better ones
rare kayak
the other aspects sometimes prevent other hammer upgrades from showing up
lost cairn
Fist!
worthy adder
??? rail?
rare kayak
sword, fists and rail are all good zagspects
worthy adder
Why rail? Doesn't that just get you bonus ammo? How is that good
rare kayak
bonus ammo is bonus ammo
spring turret
you can deal more dmg
lost cairn
Rail bonus ammo is great on shotgun boon
worthy adder
What
rare kayak
i mean it doubles your bonus ammo
worthy adder
Yeah its like only good for shotgun boon
spring turret
also combine it with flurry fire for 30 ammo
lost cairn
I like it anyway it's convenient
spring turret
its good before lucifer is unlocked
rare kayak
plus spear might be good now that the special got buffed
spring turret
but before lucifer existed it would be like the most used aspect
lost cairn
for 5 I think every Zag worths it
rare kayak
= more damage
worthy adder
Well not necessarily dodging but like, before my dodge cycle
I have to also special and cast
lost cairn
Maybe not the spear. I got the sword for Skelly 😄
spring turret
Funnily it got better after infinity chamber was nerfed
rare kayak
like i said, position better and you’ll end up dodging less
worthy adder
I don't think 5 is worth in on zag since nemesis is so much better
rare kayak
its worth it trust me
lost cairn
You need it for Skelly companion
rare kayak
also with 24 ammo you can usually finish off enemies in one sustained clip
worthy adder
yeah
spring turret
but yeah most ppl slept on it when infinity chamber didnt have that crappy 3-shot burst
worthy adder
Thats why I got it too
worthy adder
idk I don't think my problem is dodging too much, I think I've got a pretty high efficency on my abilities and I can reload while repositioning and I'm fine
rare kayak
theres not really a wrong choice on all the sword aspects, theyre all pretty good
worthy adder
Although I very rarely focus on attack when using zag cannon
spring turret
zag sword is kinda a meme though
lost cairn
You don't have to use it 🙂
rare kayak
hermes is displeased with you duckterror
lost cairn
But yeah, it's a meme and your OG weapon
rare kayak
more s p e e d
spring turret
I mean true you can do rush delivery
worthy adder
so you lose like.. a couple of shots when you reposition I just don't think that enough of a %increase in dps to be worth it
spring turret
and plume
worthy adder
Yes, but you're just cutting out one reload
you get a couple extra shots in the span of that reload if any
lost cairn
What's your go-to keepsake when you don't use gods or chaos?
worthy adder
if you were forced to reposition or you switch targets thats mute as well
lost cairn
I'm curious
spring turret
sisyphus
rare kayak
but being able to have a bigger ammo size means being able to finish off enemies faster
i go for plume
lost cairn
*And you have boon on every ability 😄
spring turret
or some defensive one
rare kayak
its faster killing enemies and thus less pressure
spring turret
usually in the later levels
rare kayak
on you
worthy adder
I always go moneybags on first region, lucky tooth on last
spring turret
like bracer or acorn
worthy adder
and the timer on elysium
lost cairn
I like Black Shawl but it doesn't sem popular
rare kayak
i usually go plume for meme runs and sometimes acorn in styx
worthy adder
i have one free slot that usually goes towards a god
worthy adder
Duckterror: yeah I was wondering about that
spring turret
black shawl is ehh honestly the dmg isnt very high for what it gives
rare kayak
i mean blackshawl is just small numbers
worthy adder
I do end up running a decent amount of resistences from weak
lost cairn
With acorn you suppose I only get hit by Hades 😄
rare kayak
if it was bigger i would like it
worthy adder
but even so like one slash is like... what 40 damage?
rare kayak
also i run dc and the black shawl bonus only counts on the first blue heart
which sucks
worthy adder
I sometimes get hit by the projectile though
spring turret
it gives teensy bit of backstab
worthy adder
that does like.. 20?
rare kayak
i think, i havent properly tested it
spring turret
acorn can get shafted by his spawns though
but theoretically its better than lucky tooth
worthy adder
hoenstly It doesn't last that long usually P
spring turret
Sometimes the math fools you into thinking its alot better than it is
worthy adder
yeah theoretically esp if you only are getting hit by the swings
lost cairn
So if anything hits you on an encounter, it counts as an Acorn proc?
spring turret
bracer is more consistent i guess
but if you use hard labour it becomes less effective
worthy adder
one thing about acorn is that it gives invulnerabiltity, procs any low health boons (more), and overflow damage
and its back loaded
spring turret
acorn makes bigger difference with maxed out hard labour though
its a heat specific thing i guess then
lost cairn
Me neither
spring turret
On low heat just use bracer
lost cairn
Bracer or spearpoint?
spring turret
spear point is better in the rooms
worthy adder
I think the main reason I go for lucky tooth is because behaviorally I win more with it because its backloaded not frontloaded
spring turret
but bracer is better overall for everything
worthy adder
like if accorn saved the last 5 hits before you died
spring turret
since its just alot of dmg reduction
worthy adder
I'd probbaly use acorn
spring turret
used to be always spear point when it had no cd
lost cairn
btw, feather duster got buffed 🙂
worthy adder
basically: i'm irrrational and stupid and lucky tooth is a good warning signal for me to play carefully at the end of the fight
spring turret
Yeah i guess, its personal preference what you use
worthy adder
Do you guys run purse on region 1? Because I feel like thats a no brainer with the alternative mirror thingy
the 15% per region
spring turret
either go sisyphus or a certain god keepsake
cunning urchin
Low heat I play sloppy vs Hades until my DDs are gone lol.
spring turret
that is me 100%
lost cairn
If I don't have any specific build in mind I go with Chaos Egg
spring turret
i clear 40 heat with the sword and try a 10 heat hades fight with the bow and die
worthy adder
lol
cunning urchin
Yup.
spring turret
I forgot to take off stubborn defiance though so I kinda did it to myself
spring turret
Its a good crutch for the first biome
Especially if u have high routine inspection
cunning urchin
Do you mean the Shackle, the NPC encounter, or the summon?
spring turret
shackle
cunning urchin
I would not use the Shackle on RI4.
worthy adder
I remember having trouble region 1 with no mirror bonuses
spring turret
well i didnt do ri4 yet
worthy adder
what ri4?
cunning urchin
Mirrorless, essentially.
worthy adder
Why not?
spring turret
Theoretically its really good i thought
since u give up all ur rng, some insurance would be nice
cunning urchin
Because you want a good build, so you want to know your first boon.
And that's probably gonna be Deflect.
Because you have no DDs, 50 HP, 1 dash.
cunning urchin
That might work out well. You get free healing.
spring turret
If you dont get hit
worthy adder
you still die in one hit to... most boss attacks
spring turret
Depends what else u have on
cunning urchin
You can pick up HP quickly in Tartarus, especially if there's an Erebus Gate with a Centaur Heart.
spring turret
Not me
worthy adder
I feel like ri3 would be so much easier
spring turret
best ive done was ri1
cunning urchin
Wriste13 and me.
worthy adder
you at least get the 1dd/level
spring turret
that got better with keys giving u fated somethings now
cunning urchin
He did 35 and 32, I did 33 Heat with RI4.
worthy adder
Nyaa, I assume you do it for the challenge not for optimizing heat?
cunning urchin
Yeah.
worthy adder
At what heat would you consider Ri4 to be optimal
cunning urchin
RI4 is 8 heat.
spring turret
not as much as i thought but still
cunning urchin
Optimal?
worthy adder
Like, if I told you you had to do a run at heat X, and the easiest way to do it would be to take ri4
what is heat X?
worthy adder
Err no thats not what I mean
cunning urchin
RI4 at 8 heat is still harder than other 8-heat setups.
worthy adder
like, if I wanted to do a heat 10 run, I'd pick the heat that'd make it easiest for me, i wouldn't like do RI4 and then some other stuff
spring turret
yeah its not optimal at all
worthy adder
if I did a heat 40 run maybe it would make sense to do RI4 because the other stuff is maxed?
Thats what im asking
at wht heat would RI4 actually be a logical thing to take
cunning urchin
RI4 is always harder than the other options.
When you're out of other pacts to choose lol.
worthy adder
okay, so basically never, e.g. at heat 55 where you're literally out of everything else?
cunning urchin
So like 55 to 57, I guess? lol
worthy adder
lol
okay well that answers my question
isn't there like a thing where megera challenges you do a mirror less run?
cause she gets salty you're beating her
I havne't seen this in my game yet I heard a rumor
worthy adder
Is it fated?
spring turret
dont think so
cunning urchin
There's not minor prophecy for that. And yeah, I think she said something like that.
spring turret
Believe its just a comment but doesnt actually go anywhere
or maybe it does, i didnt try it after getting it
cunning urchin
She also ||complains when you set the heat too high lol||.
worthy adder
aww
spring turret
I got that on my nemesis run lol
worthy adder
Nemesis run?
spring turret
did 40 heat nemesis
it was 90% getting double edge 10% actual awareness
first two biomes were trainwreck territory
funnily elysium was where it got easier because of that one fateful hammer
also double athena for the crutch to get there
cunning urchin
I started my 41-heat clear by taking 20 damage from a Wretched Thug in the very first room lol.
Divine Strike + Divine Dash is so good on Nemesis.
spring turret
its so good on anything though
cunning urchin
Damage is already high anyway.
spring turret
except maybe shield thinking about it
cunning urchin
Yeah and no. With Malphon you're not gonna have enough DPS to clear 40+ with those two.
spring turret
actually bow would be worst with it
worthy adder
Did you guys do all heats one by one or did you skip levels?
spring turret
they made shield better on zag aspect
I skipped too much dont do what i did
it was painful
cunning urchin
I did 0~20 > 32 > 41.
worthy adder
why 32 and 41?
spring turret
bragging rights i guess
cunning urchin
32 for an in-game reward.
spring turret
no reason to do 40 other than personal challenge
yeah 32 has a special statue u get for doing it
cunning urchin
41 because the highest clear with Malphon at the time was 40, so 41 was WR when I did it.
spring turret
heh funny that the bot wasnt working yesterday
cunning urchin
Don't ask me. I only play Malphon.
spring turret
@cunning urchin only plays fist so dont ask her
worthy adder
Oh.
spring turret
heh
cunning urchin
lol
worthy adder
well thats context
spring turret
funny we thought the same
lost cairn
What did you play before fists?
spring turret
she only came into existence when fists were added
cunning urchin
Guan Yu was my favorite weapon when you could still spin through walls and pillars lol.
lost cairn
Bare knuckles
worthy adder
I'm imaging like picking a weapon
and just never attack with it
only using dash
and casts
until fists
cunning urchin
I used just base shield I think the most before Guan Yu just for the damage reduction and block.
And just went for Shatter Shot.
spring turret
Im sure she has a million tips
worthy adder
Or do you switch between several
cunning urchin
I use all of them, yeah. I've used Zagreus Aspect the most, but I've used the others quite a lot, too.
worthy adder
Zag aspect seems interesting in that its seems kind of defensive compared to the others
not only cuase of the dodge but i assume the faster attack makes it slightly more mobile?
cunning urchin
If you have an attack-focused build, that's basically the one to go for.
worthy adder
Really? Why not talos I'd thought that have greater dps seeing as you're likely weaving in specials even in attack builds to apply statuses
spring turret
Attack builds are pretty great with the fists, zeus attack, merciful end build with ares attack all great picks
cunning urchin
Nah, I think for 41 I didn't use the Uppercut a single time lol.
spring turret
in general works with just about anything
except dio or art
heavy knuckles sounds interesting with art though
cunning urchin
Divine Strike + Hunter Dash etc. works best on Zagreus Aspect if you can get everything you need.
That's what I use like 90% of the time.
worthy adder
Whats heavy knuckles?
cunning urchin
The other 10% of the time I start with Divine Dash.
spring turret
Gives you more base dmg on attacks but slower
worthy adder
Oh, hammer?
cunning urchin
It's pretty good. Not a game changer like Breaching Cross.
worthy adder
to be honest I disliked the fists the most
it took the longest for me to get a win on them
spring turret
They are plain but they get the job done if you really want to use melee builds
worthy adder
I think the issue was I wasn't moving while punching which is weirdly a thing you can do
cunning urchin
I just really the lock-on and deflect with it. I don't know, it feels very natural and satisfying lol.
spring turret
I wish the sword handled as good as the fists did because the combo on sword is so atrocious
cunning urchin
I would say Demeter Aspect is the most versatile Malphon aspect.
spring turret
And i main the sword somewhat
worthy adder
maybe just took some getting used to but it feels pretty good now. Had a win just now with disciple of zeus win
I rarely use zeus as well
worthy adder
I liked when you could weave specials inside the sword combo
why'd they remove that?
cunning urchin
Talos is the most difficult to use effectively.
worthy adder
I've basically only used talos xP
cunning urchin
But when you do use it effectively, it's really good. Wriste13 is pretty good with it.
worthy adder
have i been irrationally worried about witches/ranged units
spring turret
Kinda in the same boat though basically used zagreus and demeter for fists
but i didnt play very many runs with it since it is the newest weapon
worthy adder
Wait how do you guys deal with people with range?
spring turret
deflect
worthy adder
mm
spring turret
kinda mandatory on melee builds
cunning urchin
Dash around projectiles and smack them in the face.
spring turret
or if u can destroy them with attacks do that, sword and fist have pretty fast strike speed
worthy adder
I've come to rely on talos to grab those floaty guys who float off into lava or space
spring turret
only works for spreaders though but it becomes increasingly harder on high heat
cunning urchin
And sometimes you deal with them by hoping for better RNG on the next run.
spring turret
haha i can relate
spring turret
The pain with melee builds is not being able to reach things like lernies heads or em3 minotaur
but otherwise its more immersive gameplay personally
worthy adder
??? em3 minotaur is ranged? I haven't seen him yet xP
spring turret
no the spin
cunning urchin
I often spend a good 10 seconds vs Lernie just waiting for heads to not menacingly float over magma.
spring turret
he has a spin attack
worthy adder
oh yeah
spring turret
basically gates u from going near
spring turret
he also has ground stomp
worthy adder
that won't work?
spring turret
on every attack
worthy adder
Okay, I'll get there when I get there I suppose
spring turret
making it night impossible to deflect his base combo
or not go there, i sometimes just give up on em3 because its so much less worth it
spring turret
it makes the fight take a million seconds longer
cunning urchin
I really really like EM3 thematically.
worthy adder
I keep getting caught on those little vent things
spring turret
I really think it needs changing though
worthy adder
and then dashing into the cracks between lava
spring turret
in some aspects
cunning urchin
Yeah, I don't like it gameplayically.
spring turret
I like it thematically too yeah, goofy theseus
worthy adder
theres got to be a word for that
worthy adder
Saying it makes my mouth splutter
worthy adder
Duck, what was your opinion on the sword combo?
spring turret
It feels so bad
worthy adder
In what way?
spring turret
when u think about using a sword
i dont know why you would swing then start giving up the vertical range for a chop and thrust
it feels really unintuitive
the thrust also makes it harder to melee since it knocks enemies away too
cunning urchin
It yeets enemies in Elysium and Styx waaaay across the map.
worthy adder
the thrust kind of bothers me
turbid needle
hey guys. is this a good chat to ask for some help?
spring turret
two vertical swings and a chop on the end
cunning urchin
Sure.
lost cairn
Snap Nova is so bad. Why did i pick it
spring turret
cull the thrust and maybe repurpose cruel thrust into a chop hammer
cunning urchin
Snap Nova is great.
lost cairn
how?
cunning urchin
Just gotta learn to use it.
turbid needle
i'm only able to reach elysium map with shield, and it's too hard im not sure what im doing wrong
lost cairn
I do the same with special+dash. kinda
spring turret
70 dmg is pretty good though
worthy adder
Snap nova is.... nauseating but probably good i just can't handle it
spring turret
and its base dmg so it gets better with crits, percentage based dmg amps
you have to rewire your brain to use it but i think its theoretically more worth using now
lost cairn
I guess I'll play normally and won't care about the blink thingy
cunning urchin
@lost cairn yeah, but you'll still have your dash available to dodge now, or use the snapback function to dash back.
worthy adder
I think the issue is that the interaction between dashing and snapback is weird
spring turret
Yeah I still agree its hard to get used to
worthy adder
you def can't spam special
if you spam special and continue to dash between specials you will be mentally flabbergasted
mentalgasted
lost cairn
It would be a nice utility if you could recall later, but no, it disappears in an instant
cunning urchin
@turbid needle which aspect, or just the base shield?
spring turret
If it was just a leap forward it would be more intuitive, I agree that the return really makes it harder
worthy adder
@turbid needle What enemies are you having trouble on? Or are you having trouble surviving elysium in general?
turbid needle
i don't know how to unlock aspects yet
i'm having trouble with the melee monsters, mainly, the ones with the shield dash...the spear thingy with the purple ground attack
spring turret
Alternatively they could make it so you could create return points
that you could snap to with another button
that would be too much effort for a hammer though
lost cairn
I'm trying to make it work with Poseidon sword
Seemed like a good fit, but it's hard 😄
cunning urchin
You'll really appreciate Snap Nova a lot more when you have only 1 dash. Because the snapback and I think the lunge forward, too, have a lot of i-frames.
worthy adder
@turbid needle I could give you specific tips but actually something I'd recommend is just taking the alternative death defiance if you haven't already and getting bone hourglass and just spending more time their /surviving so you ahve more chances to learn
spring turret
Well i dont find myself in that situation very frequently
imagine ri4 with sword though
That sounds horrific
cunning urchin
Well, that's basically a first-run clear except you also get hammers etc.
I did RI3 with Nemesis when I did the "Peachy Challenge" earlier.
spring turret
nightmarish
turbid needle
im currenty at 1000 darkness used and 18 attempts to escape
worthy adder
I beat the final boss like.. half a year ago and then started a new save this week thinking i'd first-run clear. Boy was I wrong
spring turret
Peach sure upped the anty in her challenges
cunning urchin
@turbid needle we have a #h1-for-new-players channel by the way. That might be better because it's spoiler free.
Well, the challenge was RI1, but RI3 seemed more fun, so . . .
spring turret
more fun
turbid needle
oh, i just came here cuz i didn't see anyone talking there :shy:
spring turret
hahaha
Reminds me of the time someone did RI4 without realising it
for a peach challenge
cunning urchin
The rules read "Routine Inspection -3". That's why I did RI3 the first time (and failed) lol.
spring turret
Yeah that was the same mistake that person made
cunning urchin
It's supposed to mean "-3 mirror talents". But that's not community standard lol.
fringe torrent
oh god i hate hate hate EM3! Asterius' leap shockwave is so annoying
spring turret
I can empathise
lost cairn
Can the dislodge damage crit?
worthy adder
what is a peach challenge
cunning urchin
We were just talking about that too lol.
spring turret
@naive tusk makes weekly community challenges