h1-builds-and-combat

[naive tusk]

Oh,

[rare topaz]

That's nice!

[native holly]

The more mid-late game stuff it going to be a different video series if I can keep getting feedback from you guys here ❤

[rare topaz]

❤️

[neon bramble]

I actually had stubborn Roots but still couldn't pull it off

[rare topaz]

Peaaach, hi

[native holly]

And I'll be crediting anyone who makes suggestions! Very thankful for advice and comments 😊

[rare topaz]

[versed tide]

feeling like beating the first boss is more a consequence of unlocking mirror talents + weapons than actively improving playstyle, I wonder how a completely new player would fare if given a fully upgraded zag

[cunning urchin]

I'd say focus the guide on battle strategies and simple builds without spoiling the tier 2 tier 3 boons.

[rare topaz]

I don't think I agree to be honest.

[native holly]

@versed tide I managed to beat the first boss during my footage recording in 35 min from start of the game, then the second 10 min later.

Part is the farming strategy I recommend to players but part is def experience

[rare topaz]

At the end of the day it's a little mix of both, defiances especially, but all in all you can't beat the game without knowing the mechanics. Everyone nears death or dies on a boss each time they stumble into them atleast a few times.

[versed tide]

mirror gives 50hp + 3 death defiances that heal of a third(?) of that, so that's +95 hp per run, and more if you grab hearts

[native holly]

@cunning urchin teah that's my idea, but I want to spend some vids explaining the basics of the mechanics so viewers have a breaking in point

[rare topaz]

So yeah I reckon, even with a maxed out Zagreus, they'd still struggle if this is the first time they played.

[versed tide]

extra damage for backstab, extra cast, extra dash, better boons and whatnot

[ripe garnet]

hi guys! i wanted some help. So after the bloodprice update i went to charon´s shop, took borrowed some money and got my ass wiped out
can i fight him again? do i get a reward if i manage to beat him?
i would really appreciate any info regarding this

[rare topaz]

@ripe garnet Aye sure.

[civic barn]

There is a reward for beating him, but I don't think we should spoil it

[rare topaz]

|| You can go at him again, just beware it is random, and you get a 20% discount card when you beat him, along with the obols of course. ||

@civic barn To be fair they did say they'd appreciate us telling them.

[civic barn]

you can encounter the fight again anytime you go to a storefront not right at the end of the stage, but it's by chance if it shows up or not

Well, info doesn't necessarily mean spoiling it, but it's not like you didn't spoiler tag it either 😛 I think this is fine; don't let me tell you what to do 👍

[ripe garnet]

ty so much guys! guess i have to keep playing then? cause i did a couple of runs after the first encounter but the option to ''borrow?'' didn´t pop out again :c

[civic barn]

yup, it's just chance

[rare topaz]

Aye, it's very much chance.

Or atleast, it seems to be chance as far as we know.

[ripe garnet]

ohh ok!! again thank you a lot!!! i thought that my game was bugged or smt xd

[rare topaz]

No worries

[cinder flower]

what are some good boon combos for base fist

[sterile portal]

athena attack and artemis dash, ares attack and athena dash, or zeus attack

[cinder flower]

thank you

[sterile portal]

No problem! Good luck!

[sterile portal]

Hey @native holly , I love seeing content on Hades! However, a post like that should probably be moved to #self-promotion . You can still leave a comment in here referrencing it and directing towards it, but for now it should probably be over there!

[native holly]

My bad, I'll post there for sure!

[turbid needle]

any time the shield is up for the Darkness bonus I run a beyblade build. Athena attack, Aries call, Poseidon dash.

[versed tide]

not sure how to feel about new well items

the few useful ones are diluted in a selection of weak meta progression stuff

[carmine rivet]

They have their place in this game, even if they aren;t for you. I love the new Gaea's treasure and Skeletal Lure because it eases the early game grind just a little for those resources.

[versed tide]

buying darkness already wasn't great but it had limited uses with trinket/talent, but buying gem achieves nothing for you during the run

it really feels like meta progression taking over actual gameplay at random

[carmine rivet]

probably because Hades is a game dedicated to the balance between story and gameplay in a roguelike.

[versed tide]

gems don't advance the story though

[primal cape]

what's a good setup for arthur sword? Aside from hoping to get shadow slash from a hammer I don't have a particular bulid i'm fond of

[carmine rivet]

It's a reflection of the story elements because the meta progression of gems takes place at the House, just as much of the story does. Also, for certain Fated List quest it does cost gemstones to advance.

[versed tide]

that's a very weird argument

[carmine rivet]

I like Athena Attack to make Arthur a true walking tank, but Artemis is good for pure dps from Arthur's massive combo.

[versed tide]

they only added gems to the well to alleviate the grind somewhat but the actual issue is gems room giving only 5

[carmine rivet]

I agree that gem room rewards are abysmal, and should be closer to 20-25 gems per room.

[versed tide]

fishing is better as in it doesn't impede on gameplay, it's a side activity, but even there you have a well item to create a fishing spot

[primal cape]

Getting gems as a room reward sucks because it's like 5 so even when pairing it with the poseideon boost to things like coins, darkness, & gems its barely signifiant

even pairing that with the chaos gem boost is near worthless because at best youre getting like 10

The best way to get gems is to buy them from wells, doing infernal troves or fishing

[carmine rivet]

Facts

[primal cape]

also the 30 or so coins upgrade for gem rooms isn't an incentive for me picking them either

[versed tide]

also 8888 darkness thing I have to buy from contractor, this is insanity

[primal cape]

I bought it straight up after I rearranged my mirror of night

you'll get there, make use of dark thirst and sisyphus

[versed tide]

can't say I'm excited by the idea of running several 0 heat runs for the sake of farming darkness

[carmine rivet]

I guess I just don't agree with your viewpoint on a fundamental level Pendragon. I see the meta progression as an integral part of Hades gameplay. SGG designed this game as an experiment in balancing story and gameplay in a roguelite.

[primal cape]

You don't have to run 0 heat to farm darkness I'm just saying change how you're doing your runs

Do almost every darkness room, grab infernal trove chests & visit sisyphus

[carmine rivet]

And yeah, that quest ate like half my darkness but worth for the story.

[versed tide]

I'm doing all of this already except it's faster at 0 heat

[primal cape]

Yeah it'd be faster at 0 heat but you'd probably enjoy the game more if you got your bounties while getting darkness

[versed tide]

I'll just pretend there's one 8 too much in that darkness cost

and that SGG made a typo

[primal cape]

I dunno it seemed reasonable to me but I've been playing since the second patch

I only lost like 1 fated authority roll to do the purchse

[versed tide]

if you nuke your mirror yes you probably can afford it

[primal cape]

lol didn't know they make nukes in hell

is hoarding slash good?

[native ether]

alright

i need to rage

at my own challenge

I'm using Eris rail

it gave me Hazard Bomb

afasnbkjbsskjvsbrgskgsrgsrg

[dry ember]

Lol do you have AP2?

[carmine rivet]

Unfortunate

That is the weekly challenge Fox

[dry ember]

Haha I already completed mine. I just wasn't sure if Pearl's challenge is thr same :D

[native ether]

ok but fun fact

I also have Athena call

I'm gonna cheese this

[magic dagger]

Imagine how hard this weekly challenge would be if you'd never installed the latest patch

lt's literally unplayable

[native ether]

This is a failed run though, Haven't gotten any chaos boons and I'm already in Elysium

[forest marsh]

Ah, boo

Did you choose Eris or did you go with Darker Thirst?

Not sure what you mean, Zoom

[carmine rivet]

I mean sure you can't buy the Anvil/Fateful Twist pre-044 but the challenge only says buy it if it comes up. Never comes up, never gotta buy it.

[inner patrol]

Man with the exception of the Pact of Punishment that's pretty much how I play anyway

Because them rarity bonus boons & such are good. Might even do a Hera Bow build for it for even more bloodstones

[old pulsar]

Right, so uh.

Yeah the bull kicks my ass.

I have no idea how to beat it, i only sort of just unlocked the last weapon, and i dont want to waste my titan blood on something that falls off late game.

[carmine rivet]

I remember once upon a time I consistently killed him faster than Theseus, but in recent patches it's been the other way 'round yeah.

[forest marsh]

Interesting, I usually either get them both within moments of each other, or else Theseus is left

[old pulsar]

Maybe i just dont know how to play lol.

[spring turret]

EM3 or regular bullman

[forest marsh]

Are you talking about the Asterius mini-boss or combined with Theseus?

[spring turret]

cuz em3 is a different story

[old pulsar]

Combined with Theseus, but i do struggle on the miniboss too.

[carmine rivet]

It's mostly about keeping track of Asterius' position. If he stops moving, check his sprite for if he's beginning to bull rush at you, then get between him and a wall before Dashing through him.

[forest marsh]

It's mostly just learning his attacks, yeah

[spring turret]

yeah do exactly that I could visualise that exact scenario when you mentioned it like that

[old pulsar]

Last run i did killed me because i got Thanatos for the first time, so i had no idea what was going on, and then the miniboss straight after.

[tepid ridge]

The dev’s have been doing a bit of tweaking on that fight, rush speed etc. I almost always focus down Asterius before Theseus. Otherwise, I like to hug the outer walls of the arena and dash through Asterius when he charges.

[old pulsar]

Wait, you can dash through him?

[spring turret]

yeah u can

just dont dash attack

[forest marsh]

Yeah

[old pulsar]

That makes it a lot easier wow.

[tepid ridge]

Because the dash functions like a teleport, you can dash through a lot of enemies and architecture

[old pulsar]

Ive been trying to out run him and get him to smash into a pillar.

[forest marsh]

When it comes to his swing-leap combo, that's a great time to get a lot of backstabbing in

[carmine rivet]

Dash gives you a few invincibility frames (i-frames) that you can use to dash through enemies, destroy projectiles, and laser beams.

[old pulsar]

Oh lord.

[spring turret]

really have to be conscious that dash strikes remove the i-frames

[forest marsh]

If you can time your dash to land behind him just after he leaps, you get a solid couple seconds of free hits

[tepid ridge]

Pillar is arguably the way they intend for it to be done but I prefer wall dashing

[spring turret]

cuz you might expect to be immune and dash into hits

[forest marsh]

Wall is much more reliable for making Asterius crash

[old pulsar]

I didnt know you could dash through things, ive been using my attacks to stop projectiles.

[spring turret]

run athena dash for more freedom

[carmine rivet]

It's much better to destroy projectiles with Attacks than Dash. It's just an option that exists.

[forest marsh]

Athena dash can get you far, this is true

[old pulsar]

I really enjoy the spear.

[carmine rivet]

And yeah, Athena Dash to deflect projectiles is better over that too.

[spring turret]

some projectiles u cant destroy though

with attack

[old pulsar]

The one time i used the fists, i basically got myself killed.

[cinder flower]

@forest marsh I unlocked demeter, wasn't there a good chaos shield build that used demeter

[spring turret]

like the witch circle miniboss has some circular attacks that cant be destroyed with attacks

[carmine rivet]

Gorgon Projectiles can't be destroyed yeah. And I haven't tried but I assume the same goes for fast-moving projectiles like the Strongbows.

[forest marsh]

Could be, but I don't run shield a lot these days so maybe you're thinking of someone else @cinder flower

[cinder flower]

someone mentioned it

i don't remember who

[spring turret]

i believe those projectiles were unique to that trial too

[forest marsh]

That's only in MM Witches Circle, Duckterror

[spring turret]

oh really

nvm

[forest marsh]

In the regular version they don't shoot the indestructible balls

[spring turret]

well that sounds alot better

[old pulsar]

The spear doesnt have a aspect(?) that benefits normal attacks.

[forest marsh]

Achilles does

[old pulsar]

Apart from the spinning one.

No?

[forest marsh]

But usually you use the boost for cast

[carmine rivet]

Achilles gives bonus damage after you do the charge.

[tepid ridge]

@cinder flower I bet killing freeze and probably pre-nerf chill-stack blast were both well liked on chaos

[old pulsar]

Ooooh, i didnt understand that at first.

[spring turret]

heh hades aspect

[cinder flower]

@neon bramble I unlocked demeter you mention a build with her and i think zues, was it zues attack and demeter special?

[old pulsar]

I want to do a poseidon spear build where i spam throw it.

Hm

Even though, its a Bident

Its close enough to a Trident

[spring turret]

use hades aspect for the trident

[old pulsar]

Bident*

[spring turret]

isnt it a trident?

[old pulsar]

Nope.

[tepid ridge]

The final spear aspect has a great special for spamming (more or less, it got a slight nerf I believe) so you have that to look forward to

[old pulsar]

Only 2 prongs.

Aspect of hades is a trident though.

For some reason?

[spring turret]

yeah thats what i was saying

aspect of hades

is a trident

[tepid ridge]

Ye he and Poseidon have a bit of a beef over it in-game I believe lol

[spring turret]

albeit the weapon is really bad

[old pulsar]

The aspect or the weapon itself?

[spring turret]

aspect

[old pulsar]

Oooh

Okay

[spring turret]

guan yu is what single handedly makes the spear any good atleast

[old pulsar]

Im guessing each aspect is referred to as something different?

guan yu?

[spring turret]

4th one

[old pulsar]

Oh, that one.

I see lol.

[carmine rivet]

Punishing Sweep is really hard to proc reliably without leaving yourself open, at least without Quick Spin.

[tepid ridge]

Yes each aspect refers to someone or something that owned the weapon

[spring turret]

its a crappier boiling blood buff honestly

also boring

[old pulsar]

Should i be using different mirror upgrades?

Or just the offensive ones?

[forest marsh]

Mirror talents are your preference

What works for me may not work for you

[spring turret]

depends on heat, i wouldnt use stubborn defiance on low heat but would use it on extremely high heat

[carmine rivet]

though chthonic vitality is just inferior to dark regeneration...

[spring turret]

they really should buff chtonic

[tepid ridge]

It is less reliable but much more satisfying

[forest marsh]

Chthonic is good very early on when you aren't getting much Darkness

[carmine rivet]

yeah SD for LC3-4 but DD anything else, especially low heat

[spring turret]

if they made it percentage based would that be op? like max 0.5% per room or something low

[forest marsh]

That would be too low I think

[tepid ridge]

But honestly it wouldn’t take much for me to take a buffed cthonic regen, just to save cash

[old pulsar]

0.5% every room?

[carmine rivet]

that'd be even lower than current Duckterror

[old pulsar]

if you have 100 health

you arent even getting 1 health a room

[spring turret]

how about 1% then

i didnt want to make it too op

so i started low

[forest marsh]

Still less than current

[spring turret]

atleast it scales

though

[carmine rivet]

50 HP is base so 1% would be less than 1/room. With Thick Skin you'd get 1/room.

[forest marsh]

I would say 5% would be competitive with Dark Regen

[carmine rivet]

Yeah true. Or maybe like flat 5-10.

[old pulsar]

Oh

What about keepsakes?

What on earth should i be using.

[spring turret]

like 5% then

[forest marsh]

Again, depends on what you like playing, Subuwu

[dry ember]

I recommend leveling your Evergreen Acorn sooner rather than later. It comes in handy more often than not :)

[old pulsar]

Evergreen acorn?

[spring turret]

eurydice keepsake

[old pulsar]

Oh

[spring turret]

get it from giving her a nectar

[carmine rivet]

If you want a specific god on your run, grab their keepsake. If you feel like you're getting rocked in early rooms use Cerberus or Sisyphus.

[forest marsh]

I usually take the god keepsakes if I am aiming for a specific build, but honestly you should try out all the keepsakes and get them all to max rank even if you never touch them again

[carmine rivet]

yeah definitely try and max all of them

[forest marsh]

Shattered Shackle is a very strong early-to-mid run keepsake

[old pulsar]

Ill work on leveling them all then.

[spring turret]

sisyphus especially, 80% on unboosted attack/special/cast is nothing to scoff at early when u dont have a maxed out mirror

[carmine rivet]

hell even the base 40% is really good in early tartarus before you get enough core boons.

[forest marsh]

Broken Spearpoint is kind of the meta in Styx

Unless you need Acorn because of the Pact

[spring turret]

yeah i was surprised it would be so high at level 1

[carmine rivet]

True, but it loses to Acorn for the Boss.

[spring turret]

broken spearpoint used to be more 'broken' when it didnt have a cd

[old pulsar]

Exploding Launcher any good?

[forest marsh]

Yeah, it can be fun

[old pulsar]

I want to focus the special, but Extending Jab is also there.

[inner patrol]

Sisyphus' keepsake is great everywhere, not just Asphodel anymore. There's plenty of general passive boons that boosts well enough that you can ride through entire runs with them

[spring turret]

plus you can be heavily screwed by rng sometimes

and it helps

having insurance

[inner patrol]

Out of the two I'd take exploding launcher

[old pulsar]

Because im not taking massive spin lol

[forest marsh]

Lambent Plume can result in some very silly runs if you can also get the epic Evasion boon

[inner patrol]

Unless you also have rapid jab

[spring turret]

add zagreus fists on that

dodge build

[old pulsar]

its my first boon lol

So i have nothing else yet.

[spring turret]

any ideas on how hades aspect could be reworked?

thinking about making it the attack centric spear that can focus on playing off flurry jab

[turbid needle]

Hm.

[spring turret]

some base stat increase maybe for attack or dash strikes

[turbid needle]

The way Zag Aspect was briefly?

[inner patrol]

I think making it so it stacks damage then applies it all at once could be interesting. Make for a decent focusing weapon

[old pulsar]

Wait, are you talking about suggesting it to the devs, or modding it yourself?

[spring turret]

it used to buff attk dmg?

no just brainstorming

[old pulsar]

Oh i see lol.

Any idea if workshop mods will become a thing?

[unkempt pagoda]

for like, a day

[spring turret]

have no idea

[old pulsar]

Would be neat.

[turbid needle]

I was getting 100 damage backstabs with pre-nerf Black Out.

[inner patrol]

Probably not. Could be interesting, but I doubt it'll be a thing unless they add it the last day they work on it. Sort of a "now it's up to you" kinda thing

[carmine rivet]

https://discordapp.com/channels/456889434672201729/477164376496013323/726130868485095504

[spring turret]

why dont we just copy nemesis and zagreus bow and make hades aspect give you a crit if you do x. Thinking maybe marking an enemy after dash striking and they get increased chance to get crit.

[carmine rivet]

No modding support from the devs is planned for any SGG game at this point.

[unkempt pagoda]

if you want mods, i know there's a hades modding server link somewhere in #self-promotion

[spring turret]

i mean non-guan yu spear is basically the sword anyway

minus the special and spin attack

[old pulsar]

Yeah, maybe once i finish the game normally ill go explore that server. Thank you!

[barren otter]

How does Fiery Presence work exactly? Is it literally just the first hit you do to an enemy? Is it completely useless on Damage Control pact modifier?

[turbid needle]

I think DC doesn't count.

But Armor will guarantee it takes at least two hits to kill anything.

[barren otter]

I'd imagine fiery presence would be excellent on Hestia Rail or on things you can't really backstab with (such as Chaos Shield post-bullrush special)

[unkempt pagoda]

ish

not really on chaos shield, since only one of the specials would get the boost

[barren otter]

oh, really?

[unkempt pagoda]

it's a bunch of individual hits, not a single big one like hestia

[forest marsh]

I'm not much for the first-hit mechanic. It can work with one-hit builds, but chances are if you already have that going then added Fiery Presence is just icing

[barren otter]

oh wait, by Chaos Shield I meant like hitting a bunch of enemies in a room at once with all the bonus shields, that has to work, right?

not on a single enemy

[unkempt pagoda]

ye that would work

[barren otter]

that's good

[obtuse ravine]

does cluster bomb hammer on rail not appear for the new aspect?

[inner patrol]

It does, just not very often. The algorithm responsible for which upgrades come up seems to incentivize the one unique to its special, like how Guan Yu's now brings up the new one for it pretty much every time

[obtuse ravine]

ahhh ok cool. i just kept getting triple bomb instead, which is still cool but I love cluster bomb. haha thanks

[inner patrol]

Oh wait I got the two mixed up. Yeah Greater Inferno replaces Cluster Bomb for the new aspect

[obtuse ravine]

:'(

[inner patrol]

Yeah I know it's about the only way I'd really use the special on it, Greater Inferno is just too finicky for what it does unless you get the armor piercing upgrade first

[obtuse ravine]

yeah. its either triple bomb + greater inferno for me. or armor piercing + triple beam and some stacking attack boon

[upbeat junco]

Trying out the guan yu spear, probs gonna try special build with it, what would be the best boons for it?

[inner patrol]

I like Poseidon on the special. Call it my Yeety Stick

[upbeat junco]

I was thinking Dio if the firecrackers that drops actually do something, but I might give Poseidon a go

[inner patrol]

The crackers are just for show save for making the hitbox of the special a little wider. Given its already substantial knockback combined with Poseidon, it causes anything except for bosses to get tossed across the room

Now if you wanted to go for Exclusive Access, Dio on attack isn't bad

[low urchin]

do attack buffs affect dash-attack?

[turbid needle]

Yes.

[upbeat junco]

Yes

[low urchin]

good, thanks

[brisk copper]

Sometimes in certain places in the room rail shots get interrupted by a floor.. KBM, Hestia aspect, idk what triggered it, Spread fire, or entering Elysium.. well, it's said, that range gets decreased, but it should be consistent nonetheless, and not reduced to melee range in certain areas.. Is it intended or i should f10 it?

[magic dagger]

empowered shots should never be melee range

[brisk copper]

looks like it's intended then, alright

i'm stupid, only manual reload counts

[magic dagger]

forgot to reload?

hate it when that happens

normal shots feel bad

[cinder flower]

what are some of the better combos with the spear

[pine lion]

does anyone have a tldr of what to build out for in the different shield aspects? that's my weakest weapon

[cinder flower]

Chaos shield, dion spec aphro attack + combo

[pine lion]

and @cinder flower I stack hangover and try to get weak/doom on special for either of those combos

for spear

[magic dagger]

ares special with chaos shield is also very effective

[pine lion]

nice, ty

any tips for beowulf?

and standard?

is beowulf even worth my titan blood at this point?

my highest clear is 11 heat w/lucifer and zeus attack zeus/dio cast combo

[magic dagger]

beowulf is worth unlocking for the prophecy

after that it's just whether you like it/have excess blood

[pine lion]

gotcha

am i right in the assumption that either hangover or zeus is the best on fast attack weapons?

especially hangover if you can get the aphro or ares combo?

although i do always go zeus on exagryph

[cinder flower]

so doom is the best boon on spear

[cunning urchin]

Hangover actually performs poorly on fast-hitting weapons vs single targets because your stacks cap too fast.

[turbid heart]

anyone having a weird problem with the lucifer aspect? like the first hit happens then the enemy just stops taking damage even though the beam is on them?

[ripe iron]

🤔

[cunning urchin]

You also essentially lock yourself out of Dionysus' Aid because two means of applying Hangover just take stacks from each other, and Dionysus' Aid is the best DPS Call.

[lament coral]

I've had 0 problems with Lucy. Were you using Athena attack?

[turbid heart]

no i am using Artemis attack

[lament coral]

hit in game

[turbid heart]

yeah i will send in a bug report

i am finally enjoying the rail with Lucifer aspect

[cinder flower]

any builds for achilles spear?

[lament coral]

I've read that people had problems with Athena, that it wouldn't deflect anything

on Lucy

[turbid heart]

lol they nerfed Guan Yu aspect AGAIN

its pretty bad now

[lament coral]

they only nerfed the special

and it's still good with the charge hammer

[turbid heart]

after nerfing everything else about it

[lament coral]

it's still the best spear aspect

[turbid heart]

meh

on high heat being 2 shot would be a problem

[lament coral]

it really isn't

the biggest hurdle GY has to overcome is the need for Quick Spin

[magic dagger]

just don't get hit often and have stubborn defiance, guan yu has plenty of health

[lament coral]

you get that and you're golden

plus, with Athena attack, you're invincible while you're in the circle

cause it deflects everything

[serene nexus]

I’m more of a Hades Aspect Spear guy myself. Didn’t like Guan Yu at all.

[spring turret]

well the reason ppl used it was for the special since it doesnt have to be called back, does really good dmg and synergises with exploding launcher. Id say the special build is still good didnt it just drop from 50-> 45? thats not too low.

[lament coral]

AOE was reduced, too, so you have to be a bit more precise with it

[magic dagger]

the problem of the smaller hitbox is much more severe than the damage nerf, yeah

[serene nexus]

What are decent Spear aspects? IIRC Achilles is basically a cast build

[spring turret]

still better than regular spear special right since that one doesnt have aoe at all

[magic dagger]

You can't hit the entire room simultaneously anymore

[cunning urchin]

What's the duration of Ares' Aid now? 1.5 sec?

[neon bramble]

I don't understand... This game is hell bent on giving me Dionysus boons on every Lambent plume high heat run, even if I don't have one mid Asphodel.

I'll be in the middle of a good build, then DIONYSUS 🤣

And it's always the miniboss rooms where I want one of my duo possibilities to appear

[magic dagger]

dionysus is the supreme god in Hades
you want him in your lambent plume runs

[neon bramble]

I really don't

Not for fists

[cunning urchin]

Take his Call.

[neon bramble]

I should caveat this.... This happens on fist runs all the time

[spring turret]

Thats the problem when you dont use god keepsakes its on the luck of the draw to get what you want

[neon bramble]

I would normally say the same, but where and when he shows up is uncanny bad timing

[spring turret]

Is the rng based on past runs? like u never picked up dio for so long so the game rolls it more

or completely random

[neon bramble]

Possibly

[spring turret]

I feel like there is some pseudo-rng but i cant confirm it

[neon bramble]

@cunning urchin I would if it ever offered it to me.

I get tier 2 boons or Trippy shot or dash

It's not that he's not good, he just doesn't fit

[spring turret]

what build are u looking for with plume?

duo boons and gods?

[neon bramble]

I usually just sell him between biomes

I always try to go for duos even on Plume runs

Doesn't always play out that way

[spring turret]

yeah which ones

[neon bramble]

Stubborn Roots
Heart rend
Merciful end
Smoldering air
Cold fusion

All depending on what my starting boons are and where they go.

Yes, Dio can pair with most of those gods, but like I said... Game gives me what looks like a clear path, then throws the monkey wrench

[spring turret]

guess i should also ask which weapon

[neon bramble]

Fists

[spring turret]

i mean dios dmg reduction boon is pretty great especially with SD

[neon bramble]

Also, I'll change my focus boons depending on the perceived duo.

If I see smoldering air coming, I take a call ASAP so that Hermes might give me second wind or quick favour

[spring turret]

So aphro, demeter, artemis, zeus, ares are the gods you try for

[neon bramble]

Basically, anyone except Dio

Lol

[spring turret]

lol

[neon bramble]

I can roll with any

[spring turret]

poseidon?

actually the call is pretty good

[neon bramble]

Ah... Poseidon only if I have to, and I always roll for flood shot or his call

But that's when I have no choice

I take flood shot because Blizzard shot

[spring turret]

i get poseidon offered alot because i never force him

[neon bramble]

And he pairs with Athena for a duo which is good

[spring turret]

or just conflicting rng

[cunning urchin]

Tempest Strike is underrated, but you need to really invest.

[neon bramble]

I don't like tempest for fists

Throws me off

[spring turret]

its sturdy without the dmg reduction

but still alright

[neon bramble]

I prefer the dash if I have no option

[spring turret]

tempest is bad on every melee weapon and there are better options on ranged weapons

[cunning urchin]

For Malphon, I only take Tidal Dash on Talos.

[neon bramble]

I generally take pos to sell at the end of a biome

[spring turret]

i'd say shield is the only weapon that can use tempest strike well since it already has inbuilt knockback

on attack

[neon bramble]

Spear is good with Pos on special, and on attack with Lucy

[spring turret]

then again there are better options

[neon bramble]

Chiron also great with pos special

[spring turret]

yeah you could go for seastorm but mostly used on special for every weapon except sword and rail or attack for rail

[swift sorrel]

Anyone have any tips for the fist weapon? Such as... when should you use your special instead of your main attack? It seems weak to me, without any boons or upgrades to it in comparison to the main attack.

[neon bramble]

Ok, there's a few things

#1) try not to allow yourself to watch the special animation and look at damage.

#2) When you use the special, you need to dash cancel out of it most times, or you eat counter attacks.

#3) try not to spam dash attacks until you have extra dashes. Until then, the dash should be used to extend your punching combos and get you out of danger.

#4) instead of dashing into a mob, circle around the outside using punch combos and rhythmic dashing, herding the enemies into a tight group. Then use your special to hit them all, and dash away.

#5) the fists take practice to get good at. It's easy to dash uncontrollably with them, then end up in a bad situation during dash cooldown. They take more precision than most players give them credit, but they are VERY fun once you understand the concept.

#6) if Hermes gives you extra dashes, go nuts, just be cognizant of how many Dashes you have left in your "clip" and always save one for an emergency escape.

@cunning urchin probably has some great tips too

[swift sorrel]

Thanks so much ♥

[cunning urchin]

I use the Dash-Upper often. I barely use the regular Uppercut ever. It's very niche in my experience because it's very risky to use. But it has the best range out of your attacks, so sometimes it is useful for that.

[neon bramble]

The dash upper is the key to proper fisting

Agreed

[inner patrol]

I use my special mostly on Demeter. Talos is fine on cast builds (especially Ares cast builds since you can more easily position enemies on the blade rift) but otherwise for me personally I don't find myself using it. Zag is great when paired with the Lambent Plume, as their dodge chances stack with each other. Rolling Knuckle is great on most builds, with Breaching Cross alongside it, as they synergize well together; Rolling Knuckle allows you to continue your combo without having to constantly dodge through your enemy to keep up the pressure and Breaching Cross procs on the Rolling Knuckle (even if you don't have Rolling Knuckle it still helps.

There's certain combos that are really good on Malphon, but overall I'd suggest leaning away from Poseidon save as an emergency escape button to clear the air. Some combos include Aphro special/Ares, Dio, or Art attack (they all stack well individually, and if you're using Talos you can have Dio attack & Art cast to max the crit chance/damage,) Dem attack/Zeus special, Or if you're feeling particularly spicy Art attack & Dio special. Naturally Hermes is a great pick to help with it in any case, as Malphon is the sort of weapon that wants to hit a lot in a short amount of time

Long Knuckle is another decent Daedalus upgrade. Draining Cutter and Kinetic Launcher can be fun, but I would advise against them unless you already are/planning to build around your special, especially if you're not using Demeter's aspect to get the Giga Cutter, giving yourself a bigger guarantee that you're going to kill the target

I will admit though that I play Malphon pretty fast & loose though. My style isn't for a more reserved player, but a "they can't hurt me if they're dead" player

[neon bramble]

You don't like explosive upper?

[cunning urchin]

Drunken Strike on Malphon performs particularly poor vs single targets and takes some unorthodox play to make work vs groups. Your stacks cap too fast, so you want to hit many enemies few times to get the most of it. But on single targets you don't have that option.

I would say Breaching Cross and Explosive Upper are easily the strongest hammer upgrades. Explosive Upper less so on Zagreus Aspect and Talos.

I don't agree with Thunder Flourish, either.

Well, you can make all of them work. But it's not a particularly strong option compared to others.

[inner patrol]

Not the biggest fan of really any of the explosive effects on any of the arms. Thunder Flourish was mostly to get the Cold Fusion & punish anybody that can actually attack while you're making fat stacks of chill damage. The Dio/Art special combo is to make use of the immense crit damage on the special attacks, although having an Aphro cast (as meh as I am on it) would certainly help thanks to the Dio/Aphro duo boon working so amazingly well with their individual duo boons with Artemis

[cunning urchin]

Hmm, the new Duo might make a combo of Lords Dionysus and Ares more effective on Malphon. I haven't looked into that at all.

[inner patrol]

The new duo boon between them makes hangover actually usable on something that's not Exagryph or Coronacht now

[spring turret]

66% dmg increase effectively

its also somewhat lenient in terms of boon requirement, i believe any t1 from either god works

[inner patrol]

Sadly I do believe that need a doom boon in order to get it (either that or I've just been incredibly unlucky while having a lot of passive boons & Ares' call)

[spring turret]

idk i got it with slicing shot

assuming then that the call also works

[inner patrol]

Maybe it was just bad luck then. I have a tendency to run with the mirror option that lets you reroll rooms rather than boons & wells because being forced to take so much extra darkness just isn't helpful most of the time

[spring turret]

Ill need to check the admin room log for that run to be sure

[inner patrol]

Y'know I actually wouldn't mind a keepsake or PoP that decreases the chance or even removes entirely the ability to get darkness. It can be useful, but it also makes Chthonic Vitality more viable if they add that option

[spring turret]

yep can confirm that all it took was slicing shot, i did pick up a few t2 boons relating to slicing shot but i doubt that mattered

dark foresight exists

[inner patrol]

Even the wiki doesn't seem to know what that is. Is it a keepsake, or what?

[spring turret]

a mirror upgrade

[cunning urchin]

They changed the name, the wiki isn't up to date yet.

[spring turret]

i forgot what it replaces gods something

the one on the top

[cunning urchin]

Or actually it is up to date now on that.

[spring turret]

nvm it replaces olympian favor

[cunning urchin]

Used to be called God's Chosen.

[spring turret]

that was the old one

[inner patrol]

Ohhhh that's why I didn't recognize it, I pretty much always have Olympian Favor on

I have terrible luck so I need all the help I can get

[spring turret]

i tried it and all i got was resource rooms

and no rare boons

[inner patrol]

Even Eurydice only pops up like, 1/4 of the time, so I can't even use the excuse of "oh there's a good chance to upgrade my boon's rarity later"

[spring turret]

if it was 50% chance to replace resource rooms it might be worth it.

sacrifice rarity for more chances

[versed tide]

resource rooms are basically filler

[inner patrol]

At least gold, poms, and nectar CAN be useful in "the late game" where your mirror is almost fully upgraded

[spring turret]

that would be busted now that i think about it because you dont even need gods legacy anymore

just deplete the boon pool from the god you want and ur forced to get the duo eventually

[inner patrol]

I still have a tendency to use God's Legacy just because I hate having to sell boons because I usually don't pick them up unless I really want them

[versed tide]

well it's less about having boons every room and more about darkness/gems/keys not having a purpose of their own

games like Isaac I still try rooms to get useful resources, here I just go through rooms

[spring turret]

I had bad experiences with rng, so that averted me from gods legacy

[dry ember]

games like Isaac I still try rooms to get useful resources, here I just go through rooms
I mean sometimes you get nothing, sometimes you get a coin

Sounds like double standard...

[spring turret]

you can get rooms that are entirely detrimental in isaac

[versed tide]

also resource room rewards don't double with the little skull elite difficulty thing

[spring turret]

like a curse room that has troll bombs

[inner patrol]

Gems give you money, keys give you rerolls, and if you have the one besides Chthonic Vitality equipped darkness gives you healing. The problem is that even a single room can go really badly so if you're at a decent health level you don't pick the darkness since you don't need the health at that moment

[versed tide]

some rooms are bad but there's a net positive to doing all rooms in the long run

[inner patrol]

Yeah Isaac isn't necessarily the best example, especially with hard mode turned on. The game loves to screw you out of resources

[cunning urchin]

I also have zero interest in Binding of Isaac, and I love all the story and things you can buy for the House etc. in Hades.

[spring turret]

its also a break or be broken sort of game. Either get brimstone or get butter bean

[versed tide]

well you should it's the pillar of the genre and it kickstarted the trend

[spring turret]

this is becoming offtopic

[cunning urchin]

I don't care for it one bit.

[merry oxide]

what's a good build for chiron bow?

[cunning urchin]

Hades is Hades.

[dry ember]

My point is why is it OK for Isaac to have filler rooms but not Hades? In fact Hades "filler" rooms actually contribute to narration and some gameplay

what's a good build for chiron bow?
Maybe I suggest Deadly Flourish with Hunter Dash?

[spring turret]

hangover flourish works too

with aphro attack

for the duo

[dry ember]

You can aim for Deadly Reversal

[inner patrol]

The problem with that one Mew is that I've already bought all of the house upgrades, and even then I still prefer it to darkness because I can actually get money out of it

[spring turret]

easy priv status and also easy way to max out hangover

[dry ember]

Yeah. Doom is actually decent if you get dire misfortune also. But if you dont, it's wasted potential.

[spring turret]

i mean its technically the highest dmg you can get on single hit

though it can be outclassed in dps

[versed tide]

I just wish they at least gave better rewards for resource elite rooms, because you get the same as non-elite

[inner patrol]

Doom Special + Weak attack is fun, especially if you can get the doom effecting boons to let you REALLY stack up Doom stacks before they hit

[spring turret]

i like that on chaos shield especially

[dry ember]

I mean it's better than nothing, but w/o dire misfortune doom on Chiron is a lot worse than it can be.

[spring turret]

they buffed CoL so its pretty great with dire misfortune

[dry ember]

But again, it's not bad

[merry oxide]

flurry shot, explosive shot, or chain shot?

[unkempt pagoda]

i’m pretty sure you do get better rewards for elite resource rooms

[dry ember]

Not chain Shot

[spring turret]

depends what aspect because flurry makes hera hard to use

[dry ember]

Flurry

[unkempt pagoda]

unless you mean gold laurels

[spring turret]

otherwise flurry

[dry ember]

Because Chain Shot aims the last enemy hit

[merry oxide]

going for weak and hangover

[versed tide]

you get 2x meta resources but the actual reward is the same (5hp 20 gold 1 dice)

[inner patrol]

Yeah out of the two I'd probably do Dio special + Aphro shot just because there's less boons for getting it to work

[dry ember]

Which can mess up your targeting

[merry oxide]

I already got dio special

so flurry shot?

[dry ember]

Yeah

I would go flurry

[spring turret]

explosive is a big nono, chainshot makes it harder to use chiron, flurry definitely

[dry ember]

Explosive isn't ideal either

[inner patrol]

Explosive or flurry (personally I prefer flurry) would be better than chain because like it was stated it moves your special target

[dry ember]

Tldr go Flurry xD

[spring turret]

pick that fourth hammer upgrade, relentless volley

[inner patrol]

Always relcome

As is concentrated volley for obvious reasons

[merry oxide]

alright so I got a zeus boon, which one should I go for?

dash and replace it later?

[spring turret]

aid is not bad

[dry ember]

Aid

[merry oxide]

can't get aid rn, either strike dash or vengeance

[spring turret]

cast is a nono, dash isnt ideal, aid is free dmg and always welcome

[merry oxide]

vengeance then?

[spring turret]

probs vengeance

yeah

[inner patrol]

Strike & use it to get better rarity later or vengeance

[spring turret]

doesnt brick up your dash atleast

[dry ember]

you get 2x meta resources but the actual reward is the same (5hp 20 gold 1 dice)
I currently have no problem with that, doesn't really change the way I play. But if they change to double reward, I won't complain either.

[spring turret]

hes going weakening and hangover with chiron iirc

so prob keep attack open for aphro

[merry oxide]

what dash do I go for

[dry ember]

Divine dash

[inner patrol]

Yeah but if it's rare or epic you might wanna pick it up to get epic/heroic for trade

[dry ember]

if you can manage

[spring turret]

haha immediately knew that would be mentioned

[dry ember]

but any dash or no dash is still ok

[spring turret]

u know u could try blade dash to get curse of nausea potentially

with that build

[inner patrol]

That'd be pretty solid

[spring turret]

artemis cast to try for splitting headache too

alot of rng though at most i got only two out of the dream combo

[versed tide]

elite vs non-elite means you generally always go for non-elite if you have the choice

since rewards don't increase with elite for resources

[spring turret]

cant elite rooms be replaced with fountains too

or can any room do that

havent checked if it is exclusive or not

[dry ember]

I mean unless I'm doing 40+ runs, I pick elite specifically for elite rewards

elite can be fountain yes

I saw one recently

[spring turret]

but can regular be as well

[dry ember]

yes

[spring turret]

ok then that doesnt matter

[versed tide]

if elite resource had more trove/well chances maybe it'd be worth considering

otherwise it's just meta farming

[dry ember]

and what's wrong with that?

[spring turret]

you dont really need to meta farm

[dry ember]

I mean even if you do, what's wrong with it?

[versed tide]

well the game just threw me a 8888 darkness thing I need to buy, looks like farming

[spring turret]

its just another thing to do other than playing the game over and over for personal gratification

you dont need to do it, just like achievements in video games they are just additional things you can do

[merry oxide]

wait wtf

[dry ember]

Look at it this way

[merry oxide]

took the keepsake that makes aphro my next boon

[spring turret]

yeah

[merry oxide]

then my next boon wasn't aphro

[spring turret]

interesting

[dry ember]

Do you feel like you you don't have enough boons to complete a run?

[merry oxide]

https://i.imgur.com/rdoMobz.jpg

[inner patrol]

Hermes can show up before your keepsake boon

[dry ember]

then my next boon wasn't aphro
@merry oxide It can be Hermes

[spring turret]

oh

yeah

[dry ember]

that's normal

[merry oxide]

I see

[versed tide]

I mean I kinda have to do it since it's a story thing and skipping on story in a game that puts so many resources in dialogue...

[spring turret]

hermes is an exception

i forgot

hermes shows up regardless same with hammers

[versed tide]

I could sell all my mirror dice for it but that's a bummer

[dry ember]

Sometimes you can also get Poseidon despite whatever keepsake you equip

by sometimes I mean once per save file xD

[unborn trellis]

mirror dice really arent that big a deal

[merry oxide]

ooh this is a hard one

side hastle or reflex

[dry ember]

again, Do you feel like you you don't have enough boons to complete a run?

[spring turret]

greater reflex

[merry oxide]

epic reflex, rare side hustle

[spring turret]

even if its 1 dash

definitely reflex

epic reflex=gg

[dry ember]

if you have enough boons to complete a run, then complaining about meta rooms is a moot point.

[versed tide]

?

[inner patrol]

I like Side Hustle because it lets you buy more boons

[versed tide]

elite vs non elite rewards is a valid point

[merry oxide]

nooo

aphro and no attack boon

even after reroll

[neon bramble]

Side hustle isn't that great. It's a nice fallback when there isn't something else good, but I'll take plenty of Hermes boons before I take side hustle

[inner patrol]

RIP

[spring turret]

i can empathise

that happens to me always when i try to get merciful end

[merry oxide]

ok it's fine, elite aphro boon

[dry ember]

then my response is as follow:

1. it happens like 1 in 5 runs, it's not a big deal. Without BP, you have to deal with some extra enemies, big whoop
2. it still doubles your meta rewards

[spring turret]

what did u pick up from aphro

[dry ember]

again, I won't mind if they double run reward also

[spring turret]

the non-attack one

[merry oxide]

the foes afflict weak on death one

[dry ember]

but I also don't see it as such a big deal as of right now

[spring turret]

oh nvm

[merry oxide]

why

again

god damn it

fine call

[spring turret]

if u got it on call i think you could be eligible for the duo boon atleast

actually wait call doesnt cause weaknening

forget what i said

[inner patrol]

I'm too used to having my 2 dodges to take more most of the time, I almost never take the one that heals you when you dodge, I can live without the straight speed upgrades, so that leaves me with the god gauge autocharge, side hustle, and dodge

[neon bramble]

Second wind is hugely underrated

As is drift dash

[spring turret]

any attack/special/cast speed increasing boons are nice too

[inner patrol]

Oh yeah I forgot that Second Wind is a thing there for a second

[neon bramble]

And rush delivery

[inner patrol]

Yeah Second Wind is pretty good. Drift Dash I find getting me into trouble more often than not

[spring turret]

drift dash is nice when u get those chaos curses

that nerf ur movement speed

i kinda forget about though otherwise

[neon bramble]

I run Laps around enemies with drift dash, then attack them when they are grouped together

Try it

[spring turret]

its great with ruthless reflex apparentally

[inner patrol]

About the only time I can think that I'd take it. Heck I might even pick it up if I have to since I'm working on the weekly challenge

[spring turret]

makes up for the dash u dont get somewhat

[dry ember]

I run Laps around enemies with drift dash, then attack them when they are grouped together
My TD2 doesn't allow running in circle T.T

[spring turret]

a crutch until you can get greatest reflex

and play like normal

[neon bramble]

I do it on TD2

The time you "waste" running is made up when you attack them all together

[spring turret]

it lasts too short most of the time though

[dry ember]

I guess I should be more clear, I have serious problem doing that in Elysium

[inner patrol]

So many of my armored enemies get the speed perk that if I have FO on it really hurts to even attempt that

And I have it on more often than I do TD

[dry ember]

since arches run away from you rather than to you, butterfly balls don't move, spear and sword have short range aggro etc etc

[neon bramble]

Basically, I take drift dash if Hermes refuses to give me reflex

[spring turret]

really is a poormans reflex

[dry ember]

yeah, to each their own...

I avoid drift dash like a plague

[spring turret]

especially with ruthless

its a boon to sell if u have UC on

[dry ember]

it messes my movement up

[inner patrol]

The Longspears have an attack range twice the length of their aggro range

[neon bramble]

I like running with the bulls in the Theseus fight with it 🤣

[dry ember]

sad but true xD

[spring turret]

oh yeah

i loved doing that too

[dry ember]

yeah that's one of the few time I appreciate drift dash

so we agree there

[neon bramble]

Although... It's an issue in Styx rooms

[inner patrol]

I was surprised how close I got to stopping Asterius' charge with my Yeety Stick

[neon bramble]

Tripping all the pressure plates for traps

[dry ember]

yeety stick?

[spring turret]

its nice against flame wheels too

[inner patrol]

Guan Yu + Poseidon Special. The thing has such a crazy knockback score with those two together it gets surprisingly close to just stopping him

[spring turret]

surprisingly beowulf special has really high knockback

i was thinking on trying a beowulf special build with that

[turbid needle]

what r the requirements for splitting headache I keep not getting it

[spring turret]

its pretty strict like heart rend

[inner patrol]

It's to be expected when you're throwing a tower shield at somebody

[spring turret]

im assuming, art attack special or true shot

[inner patrol]

something to give hangover & a boon that can crit

[spring turret]

since i got it with true shot

[neon bramble]

Wait... Is splitting headache Dio/Artemis?

[turbid needle]

yeah

[spring turret]

dont know about call though

u can have any dio that isnt trippy shot i think

[turbid needle]

okay thanks

[inner patrol]

Yup. !.5% chance to crit per instance of hangover on the target

[neon bramble]

Well... Things are making sense now... I know why it keeps giving me Dio.

I haven't got that duo yet. It wants me to finish the fates list

[merry oxide]

oh god this run is so bad

[spring turret]

wow

the fates are really in control

[inner patrol]

That's why it works so well when combined with the Aphro/Dio duo boon

[spring turret]

and curse of nausea

hangover is so fun now

[merry oxide]

the only things i got and wanted were reflex and hangover special

[spring turret]

theres like 5 duo boons that work with it

[turbid needle]

I didnt get curse of nausea yet eithere

[inner patrol]

Aphro lets you get more stacks of hangover, which makes your crit chance higher, and Aphro already stacks stupidly good with Art

[merry oxide]

honestly? screw this

restarrt

[neon bramble]

Ok,, let's get this over with so I can stop seeing that clown offer me boons

[turbid needle]

my theory is that rama with dio special, artemis attack and splitting headache looks lit but I'm unlucky

[spring turret]

Ares duo makes ur dmg 66% higher on top of that

[turbid needle]

do i need doom or rift for curse of nausea (probably doom)

[inner patrol]

Rama is a special focused build. If you want to do that then I'd suggest Aphro attack Dio special then an Ares boon

[spring turret]

rift works

i confirmed it

i tried chiron for my hangover build

[turbid needle]

I actually like rama attack a lot im taking it to 32+ rn

[spring turret]

well whatever floats your boat, the boons dont really change

[inner patrol]

Takes too long for me IMO, but different strokes

[spring turret]

honestly im really liking rama attack a bit more thanks to a certain synergy i found

[turbid needle]

I wish I had enough titan blood to max rama but I dont at all

[spring turret]

chainshot bounces between enemies and procs the spread dmg from the special multiple times

its amazing against groups of enemies

[turbid needle]

triple shot is also 😍

its so satisfying when you status everyone with the special and then unleash big dmg attacks

[spring turret]

all i want is the wall bounce on top of that and it becomes perfect

[inner patrol]

Chainshot is so unreliable for me to get with Rama. I tried for Twinshot but it looked like it only procced Shared Misery once

[spring turret]

its luck of the draw

but when u get it

[turbid needle]

twinshot doesnt seem that great on rama but idk

[spring turret]

yeah

i tested it out and it 'feels' slower

but Amir confirmed its the same charge time over a smaller range

[turbid needle]

oh if its same charge time then its good

[spring turret]

i prefer triple though since it doesnt mess with range

and the projectile is pretty big on rama

[turbid needle]

I was too scared of even slower rama on FO2

but its just free dmg then

[inner patrol]

The range & time didn't bother me, I'm mostly concerned about how it didn't really work well with the core mechanic of the aspect

[spring turret]

you mean it not proccing twice?

im sure it does though

[inner patrol]

It didn't seem like it was doing enough damage to. Some stuff got changed before the update went live though (looking at you triple shot hitbox on the new rail aspect) so it could've been updated

[spring turret]

Main complaint with it is the time because on vanilla bow i had no problems with it.

another problem with that is that rama only does full dmg at max

less than max is comparable to regular bow dmg

[turbid needle]

yeah I only have it lv2 rn

but it already feels so good

[spring turret]

oh i should have specified

max range of charge

[turbid needle]

oh

[spring turret]

sorry forgot to mention

[inner patrol]

And by the time you get the shared misery up it isn't really worth it because everything starts losing its tags by the time you even start to thinking of being close to power shot range

[spring turret]

i could have sworn that zagreus bow with twin-shot starts out atleast 50% of the range when u start firing it

but rama bow starts out at 25-30% range with twin-shot

[turbid needle]

getting shared misery to work for me didn't feel that hard dunno

[spring turret]

its numerically the same though

in terms of attack speed

guess the range decrease is just worse on rama due to it being slower

[turbid needle]

I get why people wanna focus on special tho bc the special is pretty good

[spring turret]

i honestly didnt ever go for special builds when it was broken

and now i cant experience it anymore

broken thunder flourish abuse

[turbid needle]

chad zeus

[spring turret]

its still good but not even close to as absurd as it was before

[inner patrol]

It's very possible I'm just not playing it right because I get greedy. I'm sure it's better to just tag a few then target a different enemy with the regular attacks

[neon bramble]

Ok... I've had enough attempts today at BP2.

every 2nd room is gravity well + cloner, or gravity well + link laser and speedy...

So hard with fists

[spring turret]

the spread is helped by it having bounce already on it

so thats a plus

rama special changed alot over beta

[turbid needle]

I didn't play the beta so idk actually

[spring turret]

first it was 3 arrow with broken zeus interaction but no bounce, then it was 1 arrow with bounce, then it became 3 arrows with bounce but no broken zeus interactions

there was also the interaction with hermes special speed increase

made it work infinitely

[inner patrol]

It was nice when they added in that bounce. Made it easier (but still a little challenging) to get the shared misery online

[spring turret]

also add relentless volley ontop of that

a better rail

[inner patrol]

I think I remember watching a build similar to that

[spring turret]

it got axed pretty early

wish i tried it out before the nerf hammer

main reason everyone was so attracted to special was because the attack used to be extremely slow

like explosive fire level slow near the start of beta

they improved it alot afterwards and for a time the shared suffering bonus used to be 80%

[inner patrol]

Then if you ACTUALLY got explosive shot the build was basically bricked unless you used the special for how slow the attack charged

[spring turret]

pretty sure there was a video about it , how to brick your bow

[dry ember]

like dryfiring it

[inner patrol]

That was JawlessPaul

[spring turret]

yeah remembering now

[merry oxide]

do I go for dio boon to try and get the duo or hammer?

[spring turret]

is a hammer available?

[merry oxide]

yes

[spring turret]

go for it

[inner patrol]

It hurts how slow this is
https://youtu.be/mqLFFT_roPo?t=1136

[spring turret]

good thing i never tried it

haha

[merry oxide]

relentless vollet lets go

[spring turret]

the dream is real

[inner patrol]

It basically turned the bow into a shotgun with a super tight spread but quickly loses power

[spring turret]

doesnt even deal ramas max dmg

it becomes a worse regular bow with explosive fire

[inner patrol]

When you could deal damage with it it wasn't terrible, but you had to eat everybody's weapons to get close enough to use it

[spring turret]

worse to have that in elysium

[neon bramble]

There is for sure something fishy going on with Dionysus on my game.

Two runs in a row, I take his trinket, and every boon in Tartarus is Dio, including the random covered ones in Charons shop

[spring turret]

thats me but with poseidon

oh wait

if i go by your theory

that is because i need to seek poseidon for that fated list prophecy

beat theseus on em3 then see poseidon

you know this game is becoming more controlled by the fates than we really think

[merry oxide]

common numbing sensation or reroll?

[neon bramble]

The only way Dio works on fists is by picking up peer pressure

[merry oxide]

reroll for duo right?

ooh ok

so I got a choice between peer pressure or bad influence

which one do I go for

both common

[neon bramble]

Depends on the weapon

[merry oxide]

chiron bow

[neon bramble]

Can you hit multiple enemies?

[merry oxide]

with aphro attack and dio special

[neon bramble]

Peer pressure is for single target weapons like fists

[merry oxide]

aswell as relentless volley

so peer pressure then right?

[spring turret]

yeah

chirons not made for bad influence

did u still not get the duo yet

aphro, dio

[merry oxide]

nope

[spring turret]

my 32 heat fist flashback

went to hades without getting merciful end

at all

got ares attack and athena dash in tartarus and the whole game i didnt get anything

[merry oxide]

support fire?

[spring turret]

what else

[merry oxide]

I mean there is nothing else good

[spring turret]

is there true shot?

[merry oxide]

yes but I don't cast

[spring turret]

u could take that to give you a chance to get splitting headache

hangover duo boon

[merry oxide]

alright

umm

I got both duo boons at once

which do I pick

@spring turret

[spring turret]

which ones

which duos

[merry oxide]

splitting headache and low tolerence

[spring turret]

low tolerance is more consistent

but dpeends

where are you

now

which biome

[merry oxide]

last floor of the temple

like last chamber

[spring turret]

do u know which gods are in the chambers

[merry oxide]

jsut going to fight hades

[spring turret]

do have rerolls

[merry oxide]

no

[spring turret]

take low tolerance

then

[merry oxide]

hades here I come

[spring turret]

guess i confirmed that trueshot can give you splitting headache now

was a bit unsure

[merry oxide]

maybe weak spots though

[spring turret]

the dream will be heart rend, splitting headache, curse of nausea and low tolerance but that requires all of the rng in the world

[merry oxide]

and I won

[spring turret]

i've yet to find the dream hangover but its one of my goals, one of these days i will get the cornucopia of hangover goodness.

[neon bramble]

That's basically a 10 heat build because you won't get it any other way

Why does this game have a massive erection for throwing gravity well at me when I use fists and BP2

[spring turret]

wont even get it on 0 heat because bad rng exists in all heats, the fates do not discriminate

Still i swear whenever theres any fun duo comboes (literally any cast build), mention high heat and its automatically gunned down. Only see +crit dmg duo boons or merciful end remain praised in the higher echelons

[neon bramble]

I just had an unfortunate fail on heat 40.

Merciful end + Stubborn Roots and I timed out on Elysium boss

[spring turret]

does stuborn roots work against LC4?

[neon bramble]

Well. Theseus got me, but there was no way I would finish him regardless

[spring turret]

out of curiosity

[neon bramble]

Yes it does

[spring turret]

interesting

[versed tide]

also don't forget customs / less choice which basically makes duo unattainable

[neon bramble]

I'm uploading so you all can laugh at me

And see how terrible you can actually play when using SD and still go far

[spring turret]

I guess high heat is just pure dark souls skill whereas low heat hades is enter the gungeon

[neon bramble]

Nah bro. When you see how sloppy I play, you'll change your mind on that

[spring turret]

SD kinda conditions you to play bad though in my experience

you always have the insurance of SD and that brainwashes you

[neon bramble]

That's exactly why I use it

I play proper on bosses

I play balls to the wall on rooms

Because TD2

[spring turret]

whereas DD conditions you to play good in biomes bad in bosses

literal opposites

[neon bramble]

The big reason why I lost was because I didn't have merciful end for the Asterius miniboss fight, and it took me too long

I got it as a reward for that fight

[versed tide]

also, patroclus rng can win the run for you

it's actually quite crazy

[spring turret]

true with patroclus SD becomes better than DD

well arguably atleast

[neon bramble]

If I had cleared Theseus, that run was a guaranteed win

[spring turret]

EM3 or nah

[neon bramble]

Yes

[versed tide]

I frown whenever the game gives me Sisyphus, but Eurydice/Patroclus are just insane

[spring turret]

Because EM3 theseus wastes like 10 seconds when he loses chariot

[versed tide]

Sisyphus is just a combat skip at this point

[neon bramble]

And that's the problem... Having to wait for Asterius tornado spin 5 times

And the chariot

[spring turret]

Its so cheap

because u cant do anything about it

[neon bramble]

I lost 40hp waiting for it because time was already done

[spring turret]

Often lost to TD2 then

at that point it is just despair heh

[neon bramble]

Yeah

[versed tide]

TD is rng

[spring turret]

All they need to do is remove that arbitrary invincibility

[versed tide]

it can be a DPS check at times

[neon bramble]

By the time I could attack, I had only 11hp left and his call killed me anyway

[spring turret]

like it makes EM3 so unviable

plus them having like double the original health

and theseus doing 60 dmg to you

the other EMs dont get even close

[neon bramble]

Oh, I had DPS by the time I got there

I just didn't have it for the start of Elysium

I killed Asterius in like 30s

[spring turret]

Yeah the problem is that on top of that, EM3 has alot of time-wasters

if u have damage you are fine if you dont, elysium will eat your time and you will lose to TD2 in the boss

[neon bramble]

I only had 60s for the boss fight

[versed tide]

EM3 and BP

BP can throw you stupidly tanky rooms

[spring turret]

BP is pure rng yeah

[versed tide]

TD needs to add time troves

or time rooms

or time you can buy from well

[spring turret]

A suggestion was to add the time you had left onto your next biome

[versed tide]

or sell boons for time

[spring turret]

That really helps in elysium since asphodel is short

[neon bramble]

The very first Elysium room had flamewheels with gravity well

I couldn't believe it

And teleport

[spring turret]

Lava flingers in asphodel with HS is a death sentence

elite spreaders with lava flinger

on a melee build

[versed tide]

HS value is pretty insane

[spring turret]

for 1 heat you can get 1 shot by many things

[versed tide]

it should be increments of 100%

1 heat each

[spring turret]

used to go up to 800 before

[versed tide]

100% is already lots of damage if you ever eat the random elysium arrow/spear

[spring turret]

so you could die harder

[neon bramble]

Flingers with gravity well and lava spread

Are the worst

Or bone rakers with gravity well

I saw both if those

[spring turret]

tldr gravity sucks with melee

[neon bramble]

Yep

[spring turret]

makes a numbskull horde enough to crap on you

[neon bramble]

Hence why I use SD

That's also part of the reason

[spring turret]

Yeah SD becomes invaluable in high heat

atleast with BP

because that makes biomes harder than bosses

Oh god remember when BP worked on MM units

[neon bramble]

SILENCE

they'll bring it back

[deep vault]

So without thinking I took the explosive arrow upgrade on the rama bow
can't recommend

[neon bramble]

Sorry about your lack of judgement 🤣

[spring turret]

they should make explosive bow give you a million dmg on rama to compensate

in exchange your range will also be lowered to 1 pixel

[deep vault]

my idiot ass was like "wow like this I can hit so many more targets"
Completely blocking out the "slower charge" thing lmao

[spring turret]

the problems that rama bow doesnt get 100ish dmg until u max out the range so under max is 30 dmg which is regular bow dmg

explosive effectively makes rama a crappier zagreus bow

[deep vault]

Whats a good build for Rama and new Rail anyways
they both are kinda underwhelming when comparing them to Arthur Sword

[spring turret]

new rail is really good with zeus, demeter, aphro

[deep vault]

someone recommended me poseidon on new rail but that was kinda eh

[spring turret]

poseidon is eh on most things

rama builds with dio special or zeus special are quite good

aphro attack for the low tolerance chance

[neon bramble]

Poseidon on Rail is decent

Not the best, but decent

[spring turret]

BUT IS IT GOOD ON HIGH HEAT

[neon bramble]

Ares is hilarious if you can do this:

https://imgur.com/a/JBTcXvu

I also had piercing fire

[deep vault]

I still haven't touched high heat because I can barely get through low heat lol

oh my god

that looks stupid lmao

[neon bramble]

Dire memefortune

[spring turret]

I've touched 'high heat' and it demystifies all the fun build comboes that I played with

Wonder if CoL would be good with that

[cunning urchin]

CoL?

[neon bramble]

CoL?

[spring turret]

Curse of Longing

[cunning urchin]

lol

[neon bramble]

I had heartbreak flourish

[spring turret]

thinking u could stack like 200 doom dmg + the 183 then amplified by privileged status and impending doom

[neon bramble]

And CoL if you look closely

[cunning urchin]

The initialisms in this server are getting way out of hand.

[neon bramble]

It's there

[spring turret]

you gotta know your nomenclature

[cunning urchin]

I blame Sisyphus.

He started it.

"Prince Z."

That's where it all began.

[spring turret]

We should call hades HD then

[cunning urchin]

No.

Just H.

[neon bramble]

I never used the Hellfire because it's just too clunky

[cunning urchin]

Hellfire is also H.

[neon bramble]

I had greatest reflex and just bounced around firing forever

It was more effective than setting up the duo

[spring turret]

Hello Lord H, I wonder if you know about the L which can H

[cunning urchin]

I had GR*

[spring turret]

D boons

L boons

[cunning urchin]

DBs.

[spring turret]

A = attack, asterius, Aphrodite, athena, ares, artemis, alecto,

[cunning urchin]

You've misspelled Lady Aphrodite's name. Blocked.

[spring turret]

good thing autocorrect knows it

[cunning urchin]

Unblocked.

For now.